Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Superman Returns BRANDON ROUTH… Returns

Episode Date: December 28, 2021

Superman himself, Brandon Routh (Superman Returns, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow) returns to the podcast this week to expand on his last interview, dive deeper into his thoughts on playing the Man of Steel , and share his surprising experiences over the last couple years. Brandon opens up more about his return as Superman in DC’s Legends of Tomorrow and what that moment of putting the suit back on meant to him. We also talk about being a parent during the pandy and the newfound challenges that can come with homeschooling. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's taxes extra. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you for tuning in. Ryan, thank you for being here. Thank you for showing the fuck up. Thanks for having me. Sorry for swearing right away. Just right off the cuff, just swearing. Fucking A.

I just don't even swear that much. Do you think I swear that much? No. Yeah, I try not to. Like, you swear like the normal amount of person would swear? Maybe for the new year I won't swear as much. But I think you fucking should, though. Well, another F-bomb from Ryan Teos.

Hey, thank you for making our show a priority. Thank you for listening to our show. If you're here for Brandon Routh, and I appreciate that. But hopefully you'll stick around. Hopefully you'll like the show and go, hey, I got something from the show. this. I like hearing these conversations. Can that open, real, and you'll stick around. The handles to follow us on Instagram and Facebook are at Inside of You podcast. And on Twitter. At Inside of You Pod. That's correct, Ryan. Thank you so much. And I really appreciate when people watch on YouTube,

subscribe on YouTube. You could also listen on Spotify, Apple, tune in, Stitcher, all that shit. You could listen on tune in, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you could listen on just about every platform. It's free. It's fun. I hope you continue to do it. Spread the word. It really helps the show. Thank you to all my patrons. If you go to patreon.com slash inside of you and you become a patron, I'll message you. And they get back to the show, whether it's 50 cents or a dollar or some people are top tiers that get packages for me every couple months that give a lot more. There's a lot of things on there. It's a great community. Patreon.com slash inside of you. It really helps a podcast. So if you want to help the podcast, then do it. More importantly, if you want to help, uh people in need uh echoes of hope.org if you want to help homeless people or i'm sorry foster youth this helps foster youth i've been on the uh i'm on the other i'm on the board and uh we can use your help so check out what they have and you could donate you could do you know uh help they could really use your help also food on foot dot org you know my good buddy rob dancing uh works in marketing over there and they could really use your help the homelessness uh that's going on in

Los Angeles is shocking. And if you go to foodonfoot.org, you can donate and you really help people and it's such a good cause. And I just want to say that. Also, I have the inside of you online store. If you want to buy merch and stuff like that, small of the lunchboxes, autographs, this and that, go to the inside of you online store. Use the code Rosie Christmas 10, R-O-S-E-Y.

And that's it. That's all I really have to say about that. I hope you have a great freaking New Year's, and we won't be having a show on January 4th. We're going to take one week out of the year off, but we will be back the following week with a brand new season of Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum and Ryan Taiths. Yes, he'll be here as well. Next season. Are you excited for the new year, Ryan? I am.

Yeah, the last two years have kind of been rough ones. So, you know, every new year that comes brings, you know, hopefully, some new... Brings hope. Yeah, some optimism. Yeah. Because now that we've, it feels like we've, I mean, hope. Turning a corner.

Christ, we've been through the darkest part. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, every new year is like, all right, well, we can put the last one away. Yeah. Put that in a little box. I think so, too. I think it's good.

And blow up the box. Yeah. I think it's good to be optimistic. And I think it's also not ridiculous to be optimistic. I think things will get better. And you just have to know that. And also, just be good to yourselves. Why don't we stop chatting and get right.

to it. He's been on before, but I think this one we even get a little deeper, and I really appreciate him coming back on the podcast. He's a great guy, and loved having you, buddy. So let's get inside of Brandon Routh. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not in front of a live studio audience look at that that's a nice backdrop you have you have a little tree is the beginning of the podcast if we started yet i mean sure why not well if we started hold on i have to start hold on you look very handsome by the way very handsome hello everybody hello everybody oh oh brandon you're here too i'm brandon what is that hello everybody nice to see you hello

Hello, I'm Brandon, and I guess, well, I guess this is Brandon also. Very strange. Brandon has a puppet. Brandon has a puppet. He's talking about it. This is, no, I am, this is a Brandon puppet. This is a Brandon puppet that my son made me for my birthday. Get out of here.

Are you serious? My nine-year-old son, yes, with felt and scotch tape. What a good kid. How old is he? He's very creative. His first puppet, nine. nine i couldn't do that now they went to the the dollar store here in in vancouver to get uh decorations and they had some craft supplies too and cordon suggested oh he could do something but the felt and

they was like i'm going to make a puppet and this is the first puppet he's he's he made look at that you've got shoes my favorite my favorite shirt he's got on here what is your favorite shirt is that are you kidding or is that you're actually a shirt that you're not it's a shirt no it's the shirt shirt that I wear a lot. It's a shirt that I just got a heart on a skateboard. And this is the Brandon Round Puppet. So then I said, they said, hey, Dad, can you, oh, where did the paper go?

Another gift? Can you give me an idea for a puppet? So I drew one. I don't remember where my design is. But anyway, it's like a robot puppet. So I drew him a design and color and everything to a T. He made this other one. This is a second one.

And then we'll be done with puppets. Look at that. But it's pretty cool. Look at your son making puppets. He's a puppeteer. Yeah, this is bebop. Bebop. He's the next Jim Henson.

Yeah. Look at that. And they're unique. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A lot of scotch tape. A lot of scotch tape. A lot of scotch tape.

So we're going to get him a cold. Courtney says there's something called a cold glue gun, which I'm not aware of. So I can get him a cold glue gun, which you think. think you'd be safe enough to use because I guess it doesn't burn you because it's cold I don't know so you've really enjoyed this pandemic time with your son you've had a lot of time he's had a lot of time it's got to be difficult with a kid during the pandemic right you know yes certain things have been challenging thankfully we kind of tend to be an indoor family in some ways so it hasn't been it didn't alter our schedule too much just before we had spent a lot of time up

Vancouver and we're back up here again but just before the pandemic we came back because we're traveling a lot and in our you know crazy schedule sometimes we end up spending a lot of time together when we don't have work or when we're on hiatus and and the transition from Vancouver back to LA let us you know kind of as being in our house a lot. So the first couple months leading up to quarantine, we were kind of like, okay, we got this already. We'd already started homeschooling because of the transition from moving.

We were going to supplement the year with homeschooling. And then so we were kind of already in that zone. And then Leo is thriving in it. And we like it to participate. It be his teachers. And, you know, it's going well. who's a better teacher who like if you have to teach him math or science is it you or is it Courtney I I do the math and science and Courtney does the English and social studies

yes we could both and we both trade off for each other and it just so happens that she's better at teaching the English than I am I which is which I had is an ego hit for me because I was an English major for one year only and I wanted to be a writer and I wanted to be a if I didn't become an actor. And what happened was I would get too, I would get too picky with, I was I was too much of a perfectionist for the English and for the grammar and when he was starting to write. And so that was becoming, inhibiting his kind of growth and expression. And now I'm bed route And now I understand

Because I watched her work with him And she does it in a much better way So she does And she's a great teacher anyway But but one of those That's one of the reasons why she's doing She's doing that and I'm doing what I'm doing Are you a patient person

Because you know my father was just so impatient With everything I did that I chose I don't want him helping me with my homework I'd rather fail I don't want him to teach me how to drive a stick shift I'd rather fail I remember he just had no patience How do you not understand this

we just went over this how do you not know this and i would get so frazzled that i couldn't think straight uh are you are you are you patient or you have something you have to just like learn with this is a child i have to really be patient he's not going to get everything right away you know i like to think that i'm a patient person and i can be and i have been with him school is is challenging in it and raising a child is challenging you think you're patient um but that gets tested all the time in various ways. And, you know, I am mostly, but with the math, we had a real challenge just going, working with addition stuff at the very beginning.

And I had to realize, through Courtney helping me become aware of it, because Leo and I would kind of get back and these back and forth, like, why don't you understand this? I don't understand that back and forth every couple days and realized through Courtney making me aware of it that he has a different brain than I do. He doesn't, I have to speak to him in a different way. I can't, the way I understand it is not the way he understands it.

So just giving him one example of how to do it, and I'm like, well, why doesn't that make sense? It doesn't make sense to him. So I learned to ask him questions. I say, okay, I see that this isn't making sense. What part of it doesn't make sense? Or what if we did it this way? Or being curious about him?

So I think often, like many things in life, when you're learning about how to be a better parent, you learn about how to be a better person and in relationship with every relationship that you have. And my ego was kind of getting attacked that he wasn't understanding. understanding the way I was teaching him, and is one part of it. But also, I wasn't being curious about enough about how he was engaging with the math

and asking him questions and understanding how he was feeling about it or what was frustrating to him. I was just kept trying to like, well, do it this way or what if you did it this way instead of asking him? And so, you know, just as a life lesson, curious, curiosity has been something I've been working on, being curious about people. Yeah. You know, I think we probably talked a little bit about this two years ago when I had you on. So thanks for coming back. But, you know, when you talk about patience and you're dealing with a kid, but then you deal with the real world and Brandon being on set and Brandon having to deal with real stuff going on. Have you learned, like, I'm always the guy on set that wants, I'm ready to work, but that's not how it works. It's mostly waiting. So do you, have you have, have you learned over time to adapt? sort of like go, okay, I'm not going to, I'm just going to wait when they need me. I'm going to be productive. I'm going to do something else.

And what is it that you do? Well, I don't know that I'm that productive off when we're not shooting yet. I used to have moments where I was more productive. I go and read or before cell phones became such a big time suck and mental energy suck, mind, avoid. I used to read on set. But, you know, the question you're asking me, So I don't really have a great answer.

I talk to people. I try to, you know, be ready for the next scene. But waiting is a challenging thing for an act for anyone. But, you know, they set up the lights. They have to set up the shot and get the camera. All this stuff has to happen in order for us to move on to the next shot. so there's a lot of waiting and sometimes you get brought to set and they're not ready for you yes i know those days you see a lot of a lot of actors complaining oh why'd you bring us to set

if you're not ready and this is that um me i've been one of them sure all of us have probably been there at one time maybe we didn't voice it but we're thinking it and you know i these days i'm trying to see all that stuff from a more um macro view holistic view of the whole team right You know what? Pretty much everybody's working to their capacity as hard as they can to get the job done. Nobody wants to be there all day. They want to go home to see their families. They want to do their own thing.

And it's just kind of reminding myself that we're all a team. You know, the crew, the cast, we're all trying to make this happen together. for me to sit there and complain is bad energy feeding off to everybody else on the cast crew is working so hard so I don't know if I'm answering this question but I guess you're talking about patience

and I'm saying that I'm trying to see not just myself in the picture but everyone else and that helps me go oh well just calm down because you're just one part of this whole mechanism yeah they called you to set earlier too early So take a seat.

So go back and sit down. Tell them you're going to go sit down. Let me know when you're ready. And so they're just like silently fuming and getting like, well, they call this. They should just let us go. So much energy is expelled or, you know, when you're just always kind of like upset about things. That's what I learned. It took me years and years to learn.

But like you're not doing yourself a service right now. You're not doing anybody else's service. You're just creating, you're getting more fatigued by working yourself up and expending all this energy. Creating kind of toxic environment. Yeah, that's true. Just ask for what I've been learning to ask for what I need, to know when I need something. Yeah.

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of different personalities there's got to be times when you're like my vibe doesn't really go with that guy's vibe or that actresses vibe or whatever or I don't really like the director how do you deal with that is it something you can just like kind of like zone out and just So I'm not going to, I'm not going to deal with this or do you have a tough time? Do you usually work with, do you have people that you work with that you just really, just don't really enjoy working with and you have to kind of pretend? It's pretend time. I think I've had a pretty, been, pretty fortunate opportunity, haven't had a challenge very often.

I've worked on, I've worked on projects where they, they unfortunately didn't have skills, like from from a whole like mostly crew production and where it was super challenging was very amateur hour type situation and I really had to just be there for the day I really had to learn to be present not for the outcome right but just to have the best day that I could engaging with people that I did appreciate that were there and just like go okay that cannot be fixed I cannot do anything about that this is going to be a train wreck but I can either be upset every day that's going to be a train rank or I can just go, okay, I'm going to work on being as present and in the moment and enjoy my day to day as much as I can. You know, for me, everybody knows if I'm not happy.

I can't hide it. You just see it in my disposition. My disposition is just like, especially if I don't like someone, it's hard for me not to sort of not challenge. them but sort of just say hey is everything all right i can i you know i've always had that personality where i want everybody to like me i want and if it's the one person that doesn't like me i don't understand it and some people could just be like i don't give a fuck i don't care about you know i care of myself i'm going to do my work and that's it but i i come to work i want everybody to have a good time i want there to be a good energy i want everybody to like me is do the people

are you when you're not happy do people notice it i think i think so because it's a dramatic change for me because I normally am on set. I mean, I'm recognizing my persona as onset and then at home. On set, I am I am a people pleaser. I want to be, I want to be liked. I want to be part of the team. I want us to go, you know. And I've had to look at that too to see who am I doing that for.

Right. And that's a whole like boundaries issue. But I think people know when I'm not having a bad day because I kind of, I wear it around. And it's a, it's a fairly stark transition to me right now. I guess being engaged, being curious about you, and being in a creative space, but being in a creative space. really energy and then when I get upset it's very internal and you know I'm making eye contact mumbling um yes I understand and I'm working to become more and more aware of that side of myself because it's not it's a very petulant like my child self and also like moody teenager

aspect of myself, which really doesn't serve anyone and is kind of gross. Does Courtney call you out on that? Is she someone that can just call you out? Yeah. Absolutely. And so, yeah, I mean, yeah. So people know when I'm angry, and I'm working to understand when I'm angry, too. And I feel like at the core of that, when I get into that kind of spiral,

of that turns me into not Hulk mode but but pouty angry mode um is uh it's like just not communicating right it's not as something is going on with me and I'm not communicating properly to myself or to the person who we need to speak directly to about what's upsetting me and that just festers because I want them to know to come to like them to apologize them to go oh well I've been doing this thing I'm you know silly or or hey you can I talk to you about this thing? I want them to engage, but I have to, I've learning that I have to do the work to go,

hey, you know what? I have to be the person to bring this to you. Because clearly you're not aware of this. Now I have to find the proper way to bring it to you so that you don't, your defenses aren't raised, aren't alerted and you can't, you check out from the conversation and can't even participate. And that's a tough thing.

But when you work with people or communicate with people, These are skills. These are skills that people don't learn. These are things that we need to be teaching kids in school, conflict resolution, how to deal with conflict resolution, how to speak to people instead of learning trigonometry or whatever else, you know, that rarely gets used in real life. I think it's ego. I think it's ego usually or an insecurity or something that we carry that is, has really a lot of times nothing to do with someone else. I think, you know, like you said, you want people to apologize. you want somebody to approach you and that just doesn't really happen so it just festers so it is it's

about learning how to deal with others it's learning how I mean that's very important as a child in your adolescent stage to sort of understand that and say hey it's it's a lot easier to just say hey I feel like there's a little bit of attention or whatever but let's let's dissolve that how do we do that that that takes a big person and that takes it's very difficult to wrap your head around and it's taking me a long time to understand that as well yeah you know we just like I said it's not taught in school it should be a subject that's taught in the school um you know we had I remember we would have the the um the school counselor would come in and talk about fuzzy feelings and cold whatever feelings I don't know and we talked about emotions all a

little bit but not conflict resolution it wasn't it wasn't something that happened every day which it it really should be and that's the beauty of the privilege of that we had have the ability that we have in homeschooling is that we can we talk about this kind of stuff all day long if there's a he has a deeper question about something that his uh social studies material isn't going into we dive into it and that you kids aren't getting that individual um individual uh time with a teacher going in in depth of all the stuff and and fans Families are stretched to the stretched. They're not as much family time as I'd like to have to be talking about all of these things.

But it's happening more than it ever did before. I mean, you look at the evolution of society, which is a very intriguing thing to me, and the emotional intelligence of society, of our parents, and then our parents' parents, what did they know, how were they treated? what trauma did they put on onto your parents, my parents, and then the trauma that my parents, your parents put on, we all

put trauma to some degree, emotional trauma on our kids, unless we're really aware of it. And it's only been in recent time that people are going to therapy that are talking about these things. And we can talk openly about mental wellness and seeing a therapist. You're not a crazy person for going

to see a therapist. I know I shouldn't even use that word. but you know to use the it's breaking the stigma version of it what's that you're breaking the stigma it's like you're getting rid of the stigma

yeah we're getting rid of the stigma of that and and some at one point I'm like so frustrated at people but then I look at the macro view and I'm going to say this has only been happening for such a small amount of time in humanity in humanity's history

of like really looking at how we affect each other and how our emotions especially parent and child affect the next generation you know what's funny is i was just on the phone with tom welling who was uh clark kenn on smallville for years with me who i've never who well it's funny because i told him well i told him that i'm interviewing you and he goes i like that guy goes but i i got to tell you i i never thought i mean i never think he likes me i don't think brandon likes me he said that i go do you want me to tell him that he goes yeah i just i don't think he i don't know what it is but i don't know i'm not sure if he likes me or not no oh i don't like that um no i do i actually do i really like tom in the in the well i'm sad

that he feels that way but now he can feel hopefully um better about that no he'll listen he listens to all of them uh that's what he tells you he i'm telling you question me about he goes you should have hammered him so and so more on that no i i i i appreciate and i enjoy our time together when we've been to uh several concerts together especially the last one we did in england um uh he's got great he's got he's very charismatic uh and like his energy and uh no i i like the dude i look forward to spending uh more time more time with him we had an interesting first uh meeting tell me about it and I and I never asked him about this so we're like sending we're doing this through you

this is good this is good do it through Lex our first our first meeting was I just got in the role of Superman and Superman returns and and I had never met him for and we're at Nike Nike used to do this thing maybe they still do where you go and if you're you know you get a whole bunch of free Nike stuff right um and um he was he was he was scheduled to come after me now this building down in Marina del Rey in California and it's like oh well hang out and say I'd like to meet him I never met him before not even thinking like what he might be thinking

all I knew is that maybe he didn't want to do that he didn't want to play Superman anymore I didn't know for sure right but anyway we went down and he's he gets out I think he's a truck and I'm there with Courtney and I and the very kind woman from Nike Tracy introduces us. And I say, hey, how are you going? How are you doing? For me, I was like, he doesn't like me. It was very short.

Tushay. Very short. Like, hey, hey, how you doing? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Superman. Oh, yeah. Cool. Okay.

See later. And that was it. Really? That was it. No congratulations. No nothing. Just kind of like. Maybe he did.

Maybe he did. All I remember was. I thought he didn't like me because then I became, because then I realized, oh, maybe I shouldn't have. Maybe he didn't want to say hi to me because he was having, you know, mixed feelings about it. Right. No matter what, he's played Clark Kent for 12, his whole life. Pretty much, pretty much. And, you know, I'm kind of forcing this meeting.

So maybe I'm like the bat. You know, maybe he doesn't like. And then finally, I met him again at a years, year and years later at one of the conventions, like three years ago. It was the first one we did together in Oklahoma. Right. Could have been Oklahoma. Or somewhere, anywhere. And he was nice and cordial and it erased that, you know, that feeling because he embraced, he embraced me and didn't seem like he had a problem.

And I have to look on the fact that he doesn't think that I embraced him. But no. Maybe there's that young feeling. I like you, Tom. Well, you look, Tom. he likes you welling brandon likes you brandon tom likes you that's just the way it is but maybe there's something to be said about you're both young you just got the biggest part of your life he just got the biggest part of his life maybe there's an ego maybe inadvertently it just feels like you don't know

how to act around each other we all grow up years later you meet a convention it's all like now we've done it what's up dude god i'm i'm an adult now you're an adult because you know people think, you know, what do you think of Jesse Eisenberg? What do you think of the so-and-so? I'm like, hey, congratulations to him. I'm thrilled for him that he got, you know, Lex Luther. But look, is there, people will also say, do you get jealous? Do you get upset? I'm like, I don't get jealous about someone getting apart. I get upset more resentful about not being considered or auditioning or given the opportunity to prove myself. So that's the only thing I'll say but never with an actor you can't i can't get upset for someone they cast as lex luther you know what i

mean totally yeah the the the biggest thing is like is consideration for being told that this thing that involves a character you've played in before is happening that is in your world that um that that people may weigh in and ask you about and if you're surprised by it and you don't know that that this big thing is happening kind of speaking in very broad terms but it's just communication, you know? It's communication about the roles that we care so much about.

Yeah. You know, I mean, close to when, you know, when Small was coming off the air and if there was all that Lex stuff, whatever Lex stuff might be happening, you know, you being in the know, since you'd been the only person that had been Lex for so long,

would be nice to know. so that you're not blindsided by it. I think the industry can be, they can be cruel and they can be, what's the word, despondent? I don't know if that's the right word, but just sort of, they neglect the idea of there's a certain respect. And I think everybody, everybody plays a role, you know, we deserve respect as do they, as do the creators. And I think that, you know, it's like, hey, the kid from Smallville, I don't even know his name, Rosenblumers or whatever.

You know, he's been playing Lex for a long time. let's just have him coming and read as a respectful thing just have him come and read let's meet with him that's it even if you have no thought of that's the only thing i would say if like i was in a a higher you know creative position i would say hey you know brandy routh was terrific in that let's just meet with him let's just let him let's just let him read let's just test screen them why not he's proven that he can do it that he looks great that he's the part that he does it it's just a sort of a respect that you don't see a lot

in the industry. That's all. There's not like there's a chip of my shoulder. There's not. I love all these actors. I work with Jesse and he's fantastic. It's just a matter. It's more a creative thing. Just, hey, read him. Meet with him. I think that maybe even comes down to some courage, you know, on the

behalf of the makers of whatever the project is. because, you know, you might say you have you come in. They might be worried that you're going to be upset with them and you're going to yell at them and whatever. You're going to have your own reaction and they can't deal with it. So they're just like, it's not even going to deal with that. I don't look at that thing. Just don't even consider it.

Right. Because I don't want to deal with the actor's wrath, you know. Because we all have that. We're all such angry, mean people. Like egotistical actors. don't know anything yeah um you came back crisis on infinite earth to play superman i know that was a that was a big deal for you that was a big did you get i don't know i mean was there ever time where you got a little emotional putting that suit back on oh for sure absolutely really i mean

yeah yeah i uh thank goodness also because yeah uh you know the first time was so much pressure that I was trying not to look at and also couldn't even conceive of. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do this. I'm going to get to, and I'm going to appreciate the next one or I'm going to, you know, relax into the next one. I just have to kind of get through this and enjoy it. But I wouldn't have the awareness that I have now. I think it was just great, a lot of gratitude for having an opportunity to do this again for all the parties that made it possible. and you know

I've told the story before but the first day that I came on the set I was shooting the Bat Batwoman episode and this first time I was appearing as Superman in it and I just was I thought this I've already done it

like I've already I don't even if I even if this is the only scene I'm doing the emotional wound or scar that was left from my experience to remember returns was was was mostly healed because all the lead up to that the costume fitting the fan the wonderful warm fan reaction people were excited and appreciated having me returned to the

character was validating and healing in so many ways that being there was that first day was was the most magical of times and and and I I was able to kind of relax and appreciate the rest of the experience from that moment. I didn't have to prove any. There was nothing more to prove. Just being the fact that I had done that

and read the journey, not had the character for so long and still was thought of, I guess, highly enough or enough to reprise, even for that a little bit, was validation I didn't know that I needed, I guess, but it was very healing. Did you think that,

so there was no, I thought of like, how am I going to play this guy? because you already played it, right? You already knew what you were doing. They didn't ask you to, well, in this world, we want you to play it a little differently or we want you to be, I mean, was there any sort of, or just, hey, you were this guy, just play this guy again.

No, that was definitely, there was definitely some considerations to be made. It is the same character, but he's gone through a lot since Superman returns, having lost Lois Lane, and a lot of his other friends killed by the Joker as you were kind of mixing Kingdom Com storyline

with the Superman Returns backstory in this. So it's a different, older, more mature Superman and Clark, Calell. Then you had to play the angry, possessed Superman, which was not something I'd ever done before. so I had to tap into that and ground that. So there was definitely some challenges to be had and tweaks to the character. But I've been thinking for a long time, you know, as I'd become a parent and matured and sort of learn more things about myself.

And I was eager to bring that wisdom to the character, which, you know, I think is there, not even when he's speaking, but it's kind of in the not moving moments. It's kind of in the quiet moments where that, I think some of that stuff plays. What about the moments where you're fighting Tyler Hecklin? Because those are pretty badass. And I'm watching some behind the scenes on some clips. And what was that like? Was that fun? Did you guys have a lot of fun doing that?

Fun. Yes, there was fun. A lot of fun. It's hard because it's also, we only had one day or very few days to do it. You got to hit your mark. We're moving at a rapid pace. don't want to hurt the other person. And, and the, the intense focus that you have to have for some of that stuff

eliminates, like, the super, like, it's all, that the whole thing is fun. Right. We've got to work here. It's a mix. It's a mix of all that. I had fun, I had more fun with the flying stuff. Like, so we shot at separate parts. There's, it crashes to the window and the strangling stuff.

Right. And then separately, we did the wire work. And that was pretty cool. And that was all one day, too. We did so much work in one day. I was astounded by how much all that technology has advanced. But that was cool. I mean, that was pretty cool to be flying together, itch, and, like, fighting each other in the air.

That was, that was fun and cool. What about when you first put on the suit again? The very first day you put on the suit. I guess it's a fitting and you walk into your trail or something. You look in the mirror. I mean, what was that feeling? What was that feeling? Well, there's several variations of the fitting.

So you go and you put on just the blue, and then they have the blue with the symbol, that's not finished and there's pins here still so all of that was very cool but to be finally kind of in it and parade around i took many videos of it and what it looked like when i'm running and if i you know you know do a jump and slow-mo um it was very uh healing and proud moment and just surreal why healing you say healing again it's that same thing uh when i when i took on the role of Superman, that's not something you take on lightly. And I signed a three-picture deal. And as a 24-year-old actor, you're like, oh, I'm going to do three movies. This is going to be successful. Of course, I'm going to be doing three. I'm going to be the Superman for

a while now. People are always going to know me as Superman. Had an amazing time making the first movie. And then it comes out and, you know, as everyone knows, we did not do a sequel. So, And we talked, I don't know, in our prior interview, it was devastating. Yeah. So all those dreams, all that, that future that I saw myself as Superman in multiple movies and then all that would come from that, the symbol and the role model that I would be as Superman and all that stuff that I built up into my head as a naive 24-year-old came crashing down for all those years.

Yeah, right. And so to be in the suit again To be thought of and to be back in the suit again The fans wanted you back The fans wanted you back, you know And to know that and to know that was You know, you go to conventions And people would always tell me

How much the character meant to them I love hearing that so much But to have that fully realized That energy matched with actually being in the suit And going to film the thing Was again, like I say on the first day of filming incredibly healing but being in the suit again was was a full circle a full circle moment which you I don't know how many of those you get in in in life true and I was just really present for that

and in great appreciation for a great appreciation you just look great in so much to me you look great in the suit too weren't you I mean it really it really popped you just I was like, yes, this is, this is Superman. It just, it just, it felt right. Did it take a lot of fittings? Were there anything that you were a little bit like, you know what? I don't like this part about the costume or could we, was it was the whole costume exactly what you wanted?

You had no questions, no thoughts about any of it. I loved the Superman return suit until I got into this suit. And then, and then I was like, wow, this is, you know, a great appreciation of the Superman return suit and everyone who worked so hard. thousands of hours to make that suit. But this suit is, this is, I love this.

I love from the design, you know, it's mostly based on Alex's, Alex Ross's art and wonderful art. You know, there's not much that's different from what he, from what he, his, his,

all of his stuff. But it just felt powerful and simple. the cape was lighter and it was this new material so it floated and glided and I'd have like this weight pulling me back um I love the shorts the cut of that was great um because I don't like Superman without underpants I'm sorry I agree with you hey it looks strange to me um the S was bigger which was a lot of people's problem with the Superman turns I thought it filled out the chest great and the muscle suit the guys made everybody guys everybody

every superhero has a muscle suit underneath there whether they say it or not everyone does and this one just it was shaped just great I made you know

I had I had a different shape after 15 years of weight training since then my body was different and more more of a Superman shape also in a way so they amplified and helped me where I needed it. I love it.

I think people assume that, oh, they've got the body suit. They don't have to be in great shape. That's not true, is it? You've got to fill it out. You have to fill it out still because it's still padding. And most of the muscles, some of the places where people need help are, there's more pad. But some places, it's like this. and it's like this so that they can make a groove

so you can see the bicep definition when they're just standing still. Because an actor can't sit there and be flexed the whole time. You'd never be able to hear anything they're sitting because they're doing this the whole time. They're sweating and they would get tired. And there's only so many push-ups you can do in a day to pump up.

Right. You know, you're doing a shirtless scene. You get on the floor and you do push-ups and you do some bicep curls and you do your shirtless scene. but you're in a suit all day you can't do that so it's it's imperative that you have that underneath that body suit muscle suit whatever you want to call it to help you look like a superhero all the time even when you're standing still right so that's why everyone has them

Jasonamo is huge Zach is huge Henry Cavill was huge I was huge for your own body body body type but in order to it's a movie it's not reality you have to make those things those accommodations inside of you is brought to you by rocket money if you want to save money then listen to me because i use this ryan uses so many people use rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions crazy right how cool is that monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings and you know what's great it works it really works ryan rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better

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and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim.

We are Wicked and Grim. follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. How was it? I know you're coming back, right, for an episode of The Flash? Mm-hmm. Superman is, right? You're Superman? No, Adam.

Oh, that's Ray Palmer. Yes. So he's coming back in a Flash episode coming out relatively soon. The September 19th, I think. It's the beginning of, they're doing like a mini, mini crossover, the first five episodes of Flash. And so Ray and the Adam are in the first, the first episode right and you did the hundredth episode right 100th episode of legends yep and now how now how is that

like um finding out like they're like hey we're not going to have your character return in legends was that i mean did they do you right did they approach you right did they tell you that this is going to end in the in the way you wanted to hear it is there a way you want to hear it you mean what you know when we were done on season five yeah well we i mean we we we we we we talked about that. I think I talked at length about that in our last discussion. Oh, yes, you did. You did, by the way. I won't go back into that.

And that's been, you know, the last two years and pandemic and all that, everything happening in the world has been a lot of time to reflect and process that whole experience. And ultimately, it's been a journey for me of learning and appreciating and cultivating my own self-worth. Yeah, well, they keep bringing you back, so it's not like they didn't like you.

And, you know, people make decisions. Right. People make, some people, sometimes people make good decisions. And sometimes people make bad decisions. Right. Bad decisions happen all the time. All the time. All the time.

And sometimes they affect us negatively. And we can choose to be upset with that for the rest of our lives. Or we can work to come to terms with it, I guess. And to find, as they say, make. lemonade out of lemons. And, you know, that's what I've been working out doing, and I think I can speak for Courtney and saying the same thing.

And knowing, meanwhile, by fan reaction and all the love we've gotten over the last couple years, that even though one person made this decision, that was a bad decision, nobody supports that. Nobody has supported that decision. And so that's one reason why, one of the reasons why we said yes to come back, because I, we knew that it would, it would be, that the fans would appreciate it.

And also we, you know, we, we, we made sure that in coming back that we would be, that we were standing in our own worth and made our own, requests to make sure that we were felt like we were being respected. Yes. And that happened this time around. So we were happy to be a part of it and also get an opportunity to work again with Wentworth and Victor and Falk. Some people who in France also who didn't have as much opportunity to be in the season four energy of legends, kind of more goofy open. so it was fun to kind of play with them in that new sandbox that the show had become where it wasn't it wasn't that way as much when they started out you know it comes back to respect

like you said that you felt like when you went back you respected I think that you know a lot of people don't know but I'm sure they do when they asked me to do crisis on infinite earth you know it was more like we don't have a script this is all you're getting and that's it and you're going to either say yes or now and I was like well how could I say yes to that there's like absolutely zero respect there's no script there's no money there's no nothing so I had no choice to come back. But it sounds to me like they were like, hey, we're treating Brandon with respect.

We're treating him right. We're going to take care of them. We made sure that we ensured that that was happening. Good. I like that. I'm glad you took care of that. What is the truth of a Ray Palmer, Adam, spinoff series? I know there was some early talks with Berlanti about that,

but never kind of materialized. I mean, obviously. I'm always open to that. No one has spoken to me about it, except for me internally, going, it'd be a good show. But I love Ray Palmer and love to continue playing Ray Palmer. What's the, maybe it's just hearsay,

but is it the role of Superman they were talking about maybe an HBO series potentially or any further talks about that or anything like that? Did you hear about that? I mean, I've heard of very kind people on Twitter and people tweeting me. Okay, so it's the same sort of people. It's not anybody of like, you know.

Yeah, I mean, I have, I have, I am interested in that type of a situation. So I have kind of, I have, I have floated questions and, but, you know, there's a lot going on with Superman right now. There are several projects already far along at HBO and at Warner Brothers. so and with Tyler you know doing kicking ass on Superman Lois there's not there's a lot of Superman is going to be happening right now so many Superman you know maybe maybe in a few years it's a possible I never say no to anything these days because of what happened so so you know I have I have I have I have positive thoughts that there may be a reprisal again someday of my Superman I mean.

To what, to what extent I don't know. Right. The rookie with Nathan Philean. How much do you enjoy doing that? That was interesting. I love Nathan. He's been a friend for a while and he called up and said during the middle of the pandemic. And hey, would you like a job?

I said, yes. That's not what he said, but that's what I received. And he said, oh, it's this, you know, I'd love to have you come on. This is, you know, nice arc on our show. We want to play against type. It's this cop who we kind of think is an okay guy, but then he's a pretty racist police officer, and we realize, you know, this, you know, through the course of his arc, I said, well, let me think about that. And I thought, you know, this is of the moment.

It's something top of it needs to be talked about and discussed, and that's what I want to, you know, sometimes you play characters that are just fun, and it's just to give people an escape from their And sometimes you play stuff that is important for the social, moving the social agenda forward. And sometimes you're the bad guy part of that. Right. So I took it as a great opportunity for that to learn to grow as an actor and to see how I could do to play that role. Yeah. It's hard jumping in too.

It's hard jumping into something that's already like a success, right? Yeah, they were in their third season and doing great. And then it was peak pandemic, like face shields, masks, testing three times a week. You can't, I don't really hard to meet anybody and to have, create that camaraderie on set, which I so much appreciate. Right. That's one of my favorite things about being on set is creating that film family, TV family. So it took longer to kind of initiate that or to grow that.

But all the, they were great cast and crew and had a lot of fun. I'm working with all of that. What's Magic the Card game? Because my engineer Ryan kind of geeked out a little bit. He's like, oh, yeah, of course. He kind of geeked out. Magic the Gathering. Yeah, I did it.

Magic the Gathering. What did I say? Yeah, yeah. What did I say? Magic the Card Game. Why did I say that? I don't know. Magic the Gathering.

Because you don't play Magic the Gathering. Yes, Magic the Gathering. Tell me about Magic the Gathering. Well, it's a, it's a card game that's been around for, more than 20 years, 25, 30 years? I started playing when I was 16. I think I remember buying my first pack at the Iowa State Fair.

I was on a break from making corn dogs at the corn dog stand and I worked for the 10 days in the summer. Right. And I bought a couple packs and like a deck, a pre-made deck and I was just fascinated by the whole thing for years

but there was never I didn't have enough there were never enough people around me to play but I always enjoyed it and then I cousin and so I have thousands of cards you know collection and anyway so they asked to do a voice for the new animated series coming on Netflix next year so it's a cool thing excited to be a part of

it's a cool when you get to be excited about some you get to be a part of something that you're already excited about and your child will probably be excited about Leo? I think he's not into magic yet, but he's only nine. So, you know, maybe. There's time. There's time. Yeah. How is it working with your wife? I mean, how much do you like working with your wife, especially like in the crossover and doing all these things? What was that like? I love it. We have, you know, we've done, I can't even lose track of how many projects we've done together four or five. And, you know, we have a relaxed, relaxed energy because we know we can

trust each other. So that allows us, especially in comedy, to play, to create new moments. A lot of the magic that's in Legends of Tomorrow in our episodes is stuff that we're either talking about at home before we get there. Or we say, what if we did this? Or it's just happening on the moment. And I know that she's so skilled and talented that she's going to roll with it if I do something, you know, little stuff where we're walking down the hallway, sneaking onto the ship and she doesn't know where she's going. So she goes one way and I go, you know, we bump into each other and it was like an awkward, you know, silly physical comedy moment. Just small things, but they just add to it. And so that makes it really fun to be able to come to work to know that I can rely on my

scene partner and I don't have to I don't also I don't have to do as much work yeah and the fact that you get along with her it's good that you get along yes do you think Leah will everyone act has he ever thought about it has he ever talked to you about like dad I want to play a character yeah I mean you know we got puppets we he's made various movies of different genres storyboards I've written stories that he's dictating and I'm writing it down he we did this thing for quibby before it went away with uh jason raymond who had us do you know the princess bride home movie homemade princess bride thing that we did and he asked cord and i to be a part of it and then we enlisted leo to be in r ous um rather of unusual size crawling through the firestorm so that's

his first role he's credited with on iMdb no lines but uh i think growling uh and then And I did this, it just is up here. One of the things I'm doing up here is this Hallmark movie, a sequel to this Christmas Hallmark movie I did in 2014. And it was a big Christmas scene, Santa photo op thing. And we have practiced with Leo a little bit, like stand on the line and say, stand on the tape, here's your mark, and say your line,

because he's talked about wanting to be an actor. and say we have to go to class you have to learn how to do this stuff and you have to listen to the director anyway so he's kind of been preparing him if he wants to continue look into him more

but we got a he's an extra anyway in the movie I got him a little thing in the movie so in the movie which I think will stay in the cut I love those and he was so excited he was more excited than we knew he was going to be he was so excited about it he did an awesome job and it was just so cool even

though i don't have dialogue with him or but i see him in the scene i'm in the scene with him and it's that's my son over there was such a tripy surreal cool cool thing so yeah who knows if he'll do more but he's going to be in film and television it seems like in the arts capacity whatever it manifests into as he grows. I don't know. I have to ask you. I didn't ask you about this, but the Christina Aguilera video. I mean, just for shits and giggles. I mean, how was she to be on set with? And it was just, I mean, you were, how old were you? I was when I first came out here, I was 21. So it had to be kind of exciting. She's a big singer at that point. Yeah. I didn't even know. I didn't know who she was. I just heard the song in the radio. And then it was like modeling.

I got through my modeling agency at the time, modeling casting call. You know, I wasn't the lead guy. I wasn't the lead guy, like her boyfriend. I was one of the badly dancing guys on the sideline. Right. But that was the first. I wasn't the first. I'd done one episode of TV before that,

but this was kind of a cool, like, hip thing. and she was fine she was very new to it too so she was kind of quiet and sticking to herself I think it's a law for her I think it was only the first or second music video that she'd done and I didn't really I didn't really ever chat to her because it was fun you like doing the music video was one of like 30 other other guys but it was fun and cool I thought it was a pretty neat thing to be a part of and a funny thing certain to look back and say oh there's my arm oh there's my face, but there's when I'm dancing.

Do you think, would you love to just somebody to say, Brandon, I want you to gain like 20 pounds and just be a fat schlub in a movie. I don't want you to be the good

looking ripped up Brandon. I don't want you to be this. The cop, Brandon, or the Superman Brandon or the Ray Palmer. I want you to be

slubby Brandon. You're looking at me like you don't really like that. It's just not healthy. It's just not. There's not. not a really healthy way to do that.

Well, I know too much, I know too much about health, health and the body and, and, uh, damage to the body that, you know, the pandemic was bad enough. I've been my shlobiest during the pandemic, uh, you know, Leo had to do his, his eighth, um, you know, annual, well-child annual visit with a doctor on a Zoom and we needed to weigh him. And we didn't have a scale. We didn't have it. We don't believe in, like, the need for scales. It's fine to have one, but anyway, we just didn't have one.

So we bought one on Amazon. And we get it, and I'm trying, and I step on it. I'm like, I don't think this is right. This is recalibrated. This is, like, 15 pounds off. Courtney gets on the scale. She's like, yeah, it's at least, like, 10 pounds off. I go, yeah, I, I have broken or something in the shipping.

So I go in and get a 25-pound weight, and I put it on there. 25 pounds scale's not broken I have gained 15 pounds and that's being kind because I wasn't sure I started out but I was in like

some of the best shape of my life coming off of returning as Superman and then fast forward a year later and then I was like then every time I looked in the mirror I was like oh yeah no those are that's that's

that's weight he swelled up be swelled up. Put on some weight. It just took a while. And I didn't, I didn't really like it. You didn't like it.

So I've been, you know, been more active lately and shedding some of that and getting back into a better fighting weight. Right. But I don't know.

Yeah, I don't, I would maybe. It depends on the director. It depends on the project. Look, if it's an amazing thing and I have to, I, you know,

I make it work or get, just, you know, get the large suit. The larger suit, yes. To do that kind of stuff. This is called shit talking with Brandon Rav. This wraps us up.

These are rapid fire. You might feel like you're a little redundant in answering these questions, but so be it. Misha H. Did you like playing two roles on a crossover? I did. It was a very awesome experience. Was it difficult? It was difficult just in that I had to make sure that there was a difference between Ray

and Clark. Right. And between the Adam and Superman. which I knew that it was, but I had never had to, like, analyze it because I had to then do, I had to show my picture double, the mannerisms and the physicality while if we were both in the same scene so that he could do play me while I was playing me. Right, right, right. Nico P., what was the feedback like after your last appearance on the Inside of You podcast?

Did you get a lot of a good feedback on that? I did, yeah, absolutely. People are very thankful for some of the things that I opened up about and discussed. um uh yeah good it was nice to hear that that was you know that sharing that kind of stuff was was was helpful yeah absolutely i love to have it you love having you again scott jay did you find it refreshing to play a darker and morally ambiguous character in the rookie after playing so many good upbeat characters in the past i mean you sort of answered that

but ultimately yeah i don't know if it was i think about refreshing i think i feel i feel like I leveled up a little bit those things I could have done differently with that role too relaxing into it and just like fully embracing him more but ultimately I feel good and that I learned some valuable things as an actor and as a person

Tom and which Brandon's favorite item to sign at a convention for the fans oh favorite item to sign at a convention Oh, I don't know. I like signing people bring in like the S shield. Oh, yeah. Those are kind of cool. Or like when it's a big statue,

sometimes they're bringing just the plate, the base of the statue. Yep. Those are kind of cool and challenging to sign. Do you have dolls or figures at your house that you like when Superman came out or even from Flash or you know just like the crossovers and legends do you have action figures yeah I mean we have the action figures they're not on display or anything we haven't quite gotten to the point where we're

don't have a space in our house to really do that adequately we don't I don't have like a trophy room maybe someday in a house we will do something like that but but they I have them around and usually what's happened is Leo is playing with them and they lose an arm you know but she's the Adam stuff Courtney Courtney has stuff of her too from from Fallout

3 she had a voice for and she just just pop Nora stuff too but anyway that's awesome Bob K

last question favorite classic film you would remake and star in oh I mean it could even be a favorite movie of yours yeah

Braveheart is my favorite movie. Nice. What a good one. I don't know that I could do that role justice. But also, let's see what else, like, Money, Python and Holy Grail. I could love to be. You'd love to remake that and be a part in that. One scene in that.

I don't know who I would be, but work on my British accent. I'd be the knight. You know that when he can't cross and he cuts his, you have, you feel. freaking arms off. I'll kick you to death. Black night. Yeah, the black night. I play the black night. That would be fun. Why not? This has been a blast. I love talking to you. You're so open, forthcoming. And like you said, like people said, I think people really enjoy hearing your stories and hearing the truth, hearing, you know, just like, you know, how you're feeling and how you're doing. And ultimately, I think, you know, it just sounds like you got your shit together and you're

working and you're enjoying life and you're enjoying the kid and your family. Yeah. You know, working on it all the time. I still slip up more than I want as far as, you know, being the best communicator and always, you know, working to be a better teammate, better dad, a better castmate. You know, I think one thing I'm learning on, learning about is this is, is, is boundaries, creating better boundaries and expectations for myself and what other people have expectations for me and coming on here and being a part of this and not trying to evangelize, but just, you know, speak my truth. Straight shooter, my man, straight shooter, always, always appreciate you.

Well, thanks for coming on the podcast again. I appreciate you, allow me to be inside of you. Again, this has been fantastic. I can't wait to actually hang with you when, you know, you're in Vancouver right now, right? Yes. And you're filming? I've finished filming for now and possible things brewing. of being somewhere else,

but I might just stay up here. It feels nice and safe and sane. A little sane in the old coup. All right. All my love to you, man, and I hope to see you soon. Thanks. All right, buddy. Good to see you.

Thanks for having you. Of course. You know, Ryan, you can just tell that Brandon's a genuinely good guy. Oh, yeah. You could just tell he's a good dad. He's a good husband. He tries. He tries hard.

He listens. he's matured. When I listen to guys like him or guests like him, I, you know, you want to be a better person. You feel like, God, this guy's a good guy. And I always wish him the best and he's got such a great attitude. And he just talks about, you know, the reality of it all, how you do get down. You do get depressed. You do get anxious.

You do, you're not happy with the way things are going sometimes. And that's life, man. That's freaking life. How cool is that we had two back-to-back Superman? back to back Superman and the week before you had a supergirl you know you had someone from supergirl so we're ending the season with supergirl and super duper way to end the year super duper way to end the year so thank you Brandon thank you Tom willing thank you Ozzie to spy and encourage you to donate this year if you haven't echoesofope.org for foster youth food on foot

dot org for the homeless situation in los angeles the homeless situation not the homelessness situation yeah homelessness homelessness yes food on foot dot org and the ronald house is always a beautiful thing to donate to um thank you for all my lovely patrons for the year who've supported the podcast i've talked about you all the time because without you i couldn't do it and um so thank you if you want to join patreon the wonderful family to give back to the show a little more if you feel like you can that's great if not thank you for just listening patreon.com slash inside of you um also the inside of you online store has got some great stuff for the holidays and uh smallville stuff and autographs and just plenty of stuff out there and also sunspin.com if you want to

have a zoom with me and um also get some cool swag for the band sunspin because you see stephen emel and tom welling always wear the sunspin hats the sunspin shirts i fucking i like it that's cool that's nice at them Anything else, Ryan? No, man. You don't got anything, anything you want to say for the end of the year before we wrap this up? Man, I hope the next one is better. I hope we just keep getting better. I think that's important when you just said, we need to keep getting better.

We as a society. We just need to be good to each other. It's not that hard. Hey, open a door for someone, an act of kindness. It costs nothing to be kind. It costs nothing to be kind. It's harder to be an asshole. Yeah, it is.

Ask me, I'll tell you. I've been an asshole before, I'm sure. Let's get into the top tiers. These are people who give back more than they have to, for sure. These are the top tier patrons. Again, if you want to join patron, patreon.com slash inside of you. Let's see how many you remember, Ryan. Let's do it.

Nancy. D. Leah. Sarah. V. Little. Lisa. You.

Kiko. Jill. Brian. H. Nico. P. Jerry. W.

Robert. B. Jason W. Kristen. Kay. Amelia. O. Allison.

L. Raj. C. Joshua. D. Emily. F. S. S.

C.J. P. Samantha. M. Jennifer. L. N. And correct.

Stacey. L. Correct. Jen. If her Hudson. You get five wrongs and you're done. So Jen, Jen what? I don't know.

Gen B. Gen S. Jamal. F. Correct. Janelle. B. Correct. Kimberly. E. Mike. E. Eldon. Supremo. 99. Ramira. Oh, sorry. I said. Ramira. San Diego. M. Chad. D. W. That's your first one you've missed. For second. No. Leanne. There might have been a couple Fs. Hi. I'm Joe Sal C. Hi. Host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do.

Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody.

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