Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - The Office’s BRIAN BAUMGARTNER: Celebrating the Ordinary

Episode Date: September 13, 2022

Brian Baumgartner (The Office, Off The Beat) joins us this week to reflect on how the celebration of the ordinary with a show like The Office has led to its resurgence as one of the most popular shows today, even years after it ended. Brian shares stories landing his role as Kevin and talks about how the show has gained a second life with podcasts, NY Times best sellers, and his very own chili cookbook. We also talk about our shared backroom run ins with Jack Nicholson, how separation from his phone by going golfing eases his anxiety, and Brian’s catalyst moment that moved him from theater to film and television. New York Times Best-Selling Author Brian Baumgartner’s new chili cookbook, Seriously Good Chili Cookbook, is available everywhere on September 13. Visit seriouslygoodchilicookbook.com for additional information and to order your copy today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Scorcher, just a scorcher. Thanks for making this podcast yours. If you're here for Brian Baum, Gardner, I really hope if you really like the interview, you'll give the podcast a chance and subscribe and follow us on our handles and write a review. It really helps a podcast with a little podcast that keeps going somehow, thanks to all the people out there who are supporting the podcast and my lovely patrons. What are the handles here, Ryan? At Inside of You pod on Twitter, at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook. That is correct.

And just a few shoutouts. My good friend Shira Astroff at the Animal Rescue Mission, they rescue, rehab, and find forever homes for abused and neglected animals. Check them out. They're just, they're an awesome, awesome nonprofit. it. www.theanimalrescue mission.org, if you'd like to donate, tell them old Rosenbaum sent you. Also, Echoes of Hope for foster youth and foodonfoot.org, if you want to support homeless, I'm a part of that organization, and the Ronald McDonald House, of course, got to support. You know, not a lot going on in the con world until November. I'll be doing that, but just a shout

out my buddy Rob, who's in the band Sunspin with me, our albums coming out in a month, so keep going to Sunspin.com. They'll be merch soon. We've got some cool stuff coming. I believe calendars and mugs. We're going to make some t-shirts. Support us. I really appreciate all your help on that.

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patreon.com slash inside of you and i will give the shoutouts to all the top tier patrons at the end of the podcast so make sure you listen and uh that's about it we got a great guest today you know him from the office uh what a kind guy it's my new bff i just love this guy i love having him on he was uh not only funny but he was he just kept it real he's such a he's just a sweet funny informative guy. Then you enjoy it? I did. I wasn't there. I missed it. I wish I was there for it. Oh yeah. Jason was here. Jason was here. It was a really great time. I really love the podcast. I wish you got to meet him. Yeah. I think you're going to really love this podcast. And I'm also on his podcast. So after you listen to this, you could listen to me on his. I think he asked me some of the same questions I asked him on purpose. Let's get inside of Brian Baumgardner.

It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. 2003. Yeah. I bought my first house in L.A. in 2003. Really? Yes.

And? I bet it was about the same. And how many years did you live there? Well, it was small. Yeah. So not that long. Not that long. It was, I mean, it did well in a short period of time.

Maybe it was two thousand, it was probably 2005, but yes. And then I lived, I lived east, Bronson Canyon for about 10 years. You liked it? I did. Yeah. But you lived alone or you had a girlfriend at the time? Yeah. No, I had a family and I, um, yeah, it was great.

And then I started having kids and decided that it wasn't for me. So I went to San Diego. You know, I, you're another one of these guests that I say occasionally when they come on the podcast that people like you. You're a likable guy. It's just my friend was at a, they have these office conventions. Okay. You were just there.

Okay. Right. And she was there and she's more into animals, animal rescue. she has the animal rescue mission oh yes i met her shira shira yes yes who um this is going to be so is that we're recording right sure yeah i know we are this is going to be so embarrassing if she's what did she play on the office i don't remember the role it was it was a girlfriend of uh rains like early on in the show it was like an episode where she was like the some girls he was dating I think she was in high school or maybe it was

Oh yeah it was weird it was weird It was either rain or it was Krasinski but I think it was I think it was rain Interesting okay But anyway she was there she was there they asked her to come She's like what the hell She had dog well they weren't her dogs but she was helping with the dogs Right yes so do you go to a lot of these because I go to comic Conn's like eight or ten times a year do you do a lot of these

So I don't You don't no But I More just because I feel like I have to I just I'm on the road a lot these days and so I sort of have to budget the time that I'm away so like I had not done anything since COVID started right so that's already nothing you do anything that's three years he believe it's three years not or you know so like the beginning of of of you know the end of 19 beginning of 20 something like that I I did one

that was the last one I had done prior to like a week ago right it was crazy do you like them i mean do you like the attention do you no that's not that's not really my that's not really my thing i i look i thought it was super cool and what is amazing about the office fans is and i and i have said and it is true like the best gift that i have been given from the show is truly how being able to experience from the inside how much the show means to people. I mean, like truly means to people. And it's bizarre because I try to think of myself

and translate their love for the show and me for something else. And it's hard for me to find, but what I'm talking about is like people's desire and need to tell me how much the show has meant to them, how much the show meant to them in a really dark time in their lives. Yeah. That the show brought them comfort, that brought them, made them feel better,

um, healed them in some ways. And I mean, you know, military veterans or people who have same thing, yeah. Gone through an incredible loss in their life or a medical condition and, and that they want to tell the story. And so do I like. it. I mean, it's draining. It's very draining. It's very draining. It's amazing. But it's also like when everybody's doing it, you're like, you want to give them the attention. You want to give them the love. And you're just like, oh my God, I'm just so exhausting. Exactly. And I know that sounds like,

oh, poor you having to sit there and listen to people love you. I know. I know. It's crazy. But like that, because that was an office convention. Right. I think it was slated to go from nine to six that's yeah and i didn't take a lunch break i didn't i did not leave because of the people waiting talked to every last person i was there until about eight 15 yeah i think it's a it's a beautiful thing when you connect with someone and they tell you what the show meant to them and you're you know you're surprised you're like how could this something that was just funny and goofy and we had fun i was getting paid for how could this mean so much to you but then when you you're trying to to wrap your head around it is kind of it's a little confusing but it's also a beautiful thing

and what i meant to say is not that it's like you get drained it's just like you know you do a podcast for an hour right right you don't want to talk anymore right right i don't want to do more than an hour with you it will not go over an hour right so imagine you're there for nine hours of talking to people right it's just naturally you're going to be exhausted right right yeah so it's but i it is um Um, it does mean a lot to me. Sure. It really, it really does. And I think that specifically the show in a lot of ways, how it was constructed, um, you know,

I've talked a lot about this on my podcast. When I talked to the other cast members that, that I sat down with, one of the questions that I asked everybody was about the last line of the show and what that meant to them. And clearly Greg Daniels, the creator, wrote the last episode. he wrote the last line and the last line goes something like um why did they decide to do a documentary about a paper company well i think it's a great subject it's about beauty in ordinary things isn't that kind of the point and i think that that celebration of the ordinary for the office that sell that these people have meaning

we spoiler alert we weren't like friends right like we weren't like on the cover of cosmo and doing all of the glamorous stuff i'm talking about the actors too who were on the show right we were a a group of ordinary people who were assembled by a great casting director to work together in this place and and that celebration i think is what what responds to people yeah did you uh you auditioned for the office right i did how many times you know i think it was just twice it took a long time for a decision to be made but i think i think it was just twice i hadn't done anything at that point nothing well you've done theater i had done theater yes yes so i i had i was very very very new to los angeles so like i didn't know

alison jones had a stable of comedy actors that you know she was watching for years at ucb and the groundlings and all of those places. So I wasn't that. Um, you know, I had to convince them to let them see me. Um, but yeah, I mean, I had a lot of experience in theater and character creation. What about improv? Were you big an improv? No, I wasn't. See, that's crazy. Because I auditioned for the office. Oh, you did. Way back when? As for, well, what year did it start? Well, so the, the pilot was, um, the pilot was shot in. 2004 right yeah I read for it I didn't go any further right but weird I mean weird I just I'm here right now talking to you it didn't go anywhere but were you surprised did they ask you in

the audition to do any improvisational pieces or like they say hey just keep going keep talking um not so much for me in the audition though I kind of did they um Allison Joe Jones is brilliant, but they had me reading for the role of Stanley. Right. And I knew the British version of the show, and I knew this character that they were calling Kevin here was the part for me. So I read, for the producers, I read Stanley as though it was Kevin. Really? Yeah.

And I left the room and was like, I don't know how that went. And Allison ran after me and said, hey, there's this other role we want you to. we want you to read and so then i went back in for kevin um just just just cold coldish yeah i mean she probably said here take 30 minutes or you didn't learn the lines but you kind of just read off and things yeah yeah yeah and then what would uh daniels was he in the room daniels did he just give you a smile after was there anything that kind of kind of made you feel like i might have done i You know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't remember any of that. I don't I don't remember any specific feedback except a feeling, which I'm sure you've had, which is like when I left, I went, that that went well. Like that went. I don't, I mean, probably at the time, because I was so new, I was probably thought, I got that. Right. Now it's more tempered. Now I know. I know. enough to know that like oh i'm in the mix for sure and they may choose you as opposed to me or

they may choose you know a different color a different flavor different you know type person um but i yeah at the time i i knew that and you know what i don't know if i don't know if you ever heard this i uh i it was down to three when steve correll left the show alison jones was looking through memorabilia for Steve. Like, is there something from his first audition or whatever? And she came to, like, his party when he was leaving. And she pulled me aside. She was like, I didn't really find that much for Steve.

But I found this. I thought you'd be interested. And this was like a paper. It had been seven, eight years kind of discolored. I have it in my office now. And it just said, Kevin Malone. And it's in my office. But I don't remember the order.

It wasn't in order. But it said, one, two, and three, Brian Baumgartner, Eric Stone Street, and Jorge Garcia. So at that time, that's before lost with Jorge. That's before modern family with Eric. And there, I am. And Rayne Wilson always says to me, too bad Eric didn't get it because I'd be much richer now if I had gotten to modern family. But, yeah, I mean, I think it worked out for everybody.

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Do you remember being nervous on set? Do you remember being like, I'm out of my league? How did that feel? Yeah, I remember. I remember the pilot and Angela Kinsey and Oscar Nunez and I had a very short scene in the pilot that we were shooting. And, you know, it was shot at the end of the day. And we left thinking, okay, we may get fired. Like, really?

Yeah, like. Because it's just not enough to show what you could do. Yeah, they're just what. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so we were like trying to make this meal out of what was a very, very simple exchange that should have been delivered simply. And I think that, you know, looking back, I think it was much more about what happens in pilots, which is just that everybody feels like everything has to be perfect. Everything has to be exactly right. Oh, yeah.

And so I think it was much more about that. But at the time, we were just thinking, like, how did we just spend an hour and a half on this? Like, whatever, like three or four line exchange. And we started improvising pretty quickly. And I think we know about it. I think so what happened was there were characters from the British version, Kevin being one from Keith was the British character. But Greg Daniels always knew he wanted. a larger um a larger ensemble here so like oscar talks to me a lot about in his audition he

improvised a lot um because he you know he i think he read for stanley as well or or read for somebody else didn't get it and they were like but we like this guy let's find out who this guy can be so he did a lot of improv i think angela um angela kensi as well which is good because they you know they have they're incredible improvisers right it's weird though now michael because i um that's what people see me as is like a comedy improv guy right just on the surf and that's really not at all what i what i was what i did i was like dark theater dramatic like horrible characters trying to find some sliver of humanity and the like darkness um but you know now it's like oh no you're an improv guy right you're a comedy improv genius exactly you're one of the

biggest shows ever made right exactly were you a regular did you sign a deal for as a regular or were you a recurring and became a regular after the so the first season which was only six episodes we were we were all recurring except for you know four or five guys um or four or five people um and then we were made regulars right yeah well tell me about you talk about the dark stuff and the theater stuff and all that but growing up you grew up in Atlanta Atlanta yeah were uh did you have cool parents were they together were they cool parents great parents loving loving very loving very supportive oddly of you know the path they told me the story later so I graduated I graduated from college and I started doing theater

and I went and joined a very small theater theater in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and the first show, my parents, supportive, flew to Minneapolis. They told me that, they told me that night, this story, which was they got into a cab. This was before Uber. They got into a cab from their hotel and gave the address where the performance was, and the cab driver said, you don't want to go there. Oh, no.

Yes. That's where you were doing your theater. Yes. apparently was not a great neighborhood and they were like no i think we do um and it was it was february right and i'm from the south so like it's cold intensely cold weather is not something that my parents or i were comfortable with and they show up i think there was a discussion of canceling the performance because i think there were like 12 people in the audience including my parents and it was like like freezing and my parents didn't say anything that night but years later

probably after the office um they came and said you know we had a we had a ride back to the hotel after this which was like what the fuck is he doing he's a smart guy why is he doing theater this is horrible he's here nobody's watching like what is he what is he doing To me, they were really supportive and great show, you know, everything. But like between themselves, when they got alone, they were like, oh, he's made a horrible, horrible mistake. He's made a disastrous error. Did they try to tell you at all during this whole process of you becoming an actor, hey, have you thought of maybe having a backup plan? You know, there wasn't, there really wasn't much of that.

I mean, I was, I decided early, meaning, just like, like everyone goes to college, right, thinking you're going to major in one thing and you end up majoring in something else. I mean, this is like a part of life. And that was not me. I mean, basically from the summer before my senior year of high school, I knew this is what I wanted to do. And I was, I was singularly focused on that. So like, I went to SMU, which at the time, and I think still, you know, I didn't want to go to like a Juilliard. or a Carnegie Mellon, like, I wanted to go to a university. And at the time, I believed that SMU was the best training pro, conservatory training program in the country that was within a university. Like I went to US, came out to USC and there was Northwestern. And a lot of places that people think about, like Northwestern, people sort of think

about theater or USC, UCLA out here in L.A., but SMU to me was the best. And that's, that's where I went. And so I had like a. you know, a very singularly focused college career and then beyond. I never sort of wavered. Were you popular growing up? I was. I was never a theater kid.

I don't, I never. So like I wasn't in a fraternity, but I was hanging out with all the fraternity people at SMU. Yeah. Did they go see your shows? Yeah. Yeah, they did. Really?

Yeah. And they were supportive. They were supportive. Yes. Because like I loved sports. So, like, I wanted to be going to the basketball games and the football games that weren't great. But, like, I wanted that college experience. Yeah.

And not just, in fact, I remember getting, because the theater department was insular in a lot of ways. And there was, like, parties, but they were like the theater parties and somebody's. And I remember getting shit late, late, you know, junior, senior year. Like, you don't ever go to the theater parties. Like, what, you know, you're what you're. just like too good for us or you're like blah blah blah and i was like no no it's not that i just have i'm spending all day every day with you know all of you i want more yeah i want like a you know a wider breadth of experience so yeah my friends uh by and large in in my well that's not true i have a lot

of friends who are in the theater department still um but i had a lot that was outside for sure can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Wicked. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. theater department i don't know if you folks out there listening no but it's very clicky very very very very judgmental very i mean they're thinking everybody's judging them but really

they're judging i remember being a part of it and it was just like everybody who was out to kill each other yes and it was like oh yeah what's up there was a couple guys a couple little friends that you had but you know when you saw those names of who was cast in a play oh i saw some looks like are you fucking kidding me you Rosenbaum what the fuck is he doing right he's sucks you know did you experience a lot of that um yeah i mean it was it i mean it was i never really talked about this but it i mean in truth it is i mean it was pretty cut throat e and not it was always very sort of outwardly supportive and it was a supportive department for sure but you know they were a premier theater training program and they led in 15

this is a freshman year 15 actors and 15 others and they called it theater studies so that was directors designers writers you know all of that and there were 15 actors by the time we graduated and this wasn't there weren't cuts you weren't like eliminated like a game show but by the time we were done i'm guessing there were six actors seven without counting in my head right now so i mean it's just like people are like okay this is not for me right which is what happens in college all the time like you think you're gonna major in economics and then you discover PR or whatever I don't know I don't know what you what do you major in I don't even know I could not come up with two majors to make that example um no yeah it's right yeah it's true yeah I had a teacher professor dr

Whitney Combs. Dr. Whitney Combs. And I remember the first time I took basic techniques of acting my freshman year. Okay. I'm still talking like him. And I'm sitting there in a classroom and he gets up and goes, if you're here for just an easy elective, please raise your hand. Don't be afraid.

Please raise your hand if you're just here for a free, it's an easy elective. Just raise your hand. and i i was always a goofy kid i was about i was like seconds away from lifting my hand up and i didn't and then about seven or eight people raised their hands like yeah they're like now if you quickly leave my classroom they're like what no seriously get out of my classroom and he kicked those people who just wanted an easy a or whatever out of the classroom and then afterwards he stopped me mr rosenbaum and i go yes he goes i was wearing a metta cap and a Mets jersey. I didn't look like a theater kid. I looked like a punk. And he's like, do you really

want to be here? And I go, yeah? Yeah, I do. I didn't know if I wanted to be there. I was scared shitless. I had an audition for a theater for a play then. And he kind of shook his head. It took years. I wanted to make, you know, I wanted him to like me. And eventually I started to do plays and build up the confidence. And he took me aside at the end. And I said, should I go to grad school? And he goes, I think you're ready. I think you should go to New York and give it a Todd. And I did. He was one of the few people that really were like, hey, you've got this. That's incredible. It was incredible. Did you have someone? For sure. Who was the, who was the mentor? Who was the person that you remember that goes, they're giving me the confidence.

Dale, Dale Moffat. Dale Moffat. Dale Moffat. Yeah. He was, for a long time, began to transition out, but was the head of the acting program at SMU. and I mean my the difference in in my story was exactly I'm sure the same but because it was a conservatory you had to be one of those 15 people to be in the class right right so there were there was no like that wasn't an option that's what I mean like we were in you know you usually you're going back and forth across campus taking different classes we just moved on mass from you know voice and acting to movement to you know theater studies and you know blah blah blah so yeah so that was the that was the difference but yeah no he was the one who i mean i guess what i would say is that i had

good instincts and i had an experience before the the summer before my senior year of high school where i went to northwestern actually and there's like this program and it's one summer for kids. It's called the cherub. Have you heard about this? The charro program? Oh, yeah. At Northwestern for incoming senior students in high school. And it's intense. Like, I don't know, six, eight weeks, but it's like theater. And it ended up being akin to my experience in college. But that's when I went. And it was for me, like, I'm confident on a stage. I feel like I, you know, I understand basic. you know, I don't even know what I would think at the time. And you're only like 17 or 18. Yeah, like emotion, whatever.

And this was like, oh, no, there's like a process for like actually do figuring things out and doing the work. I mean, like being an act like, and that's what opened my, my brain to it. And so I feel like when I went into SMU, it was, it was all instinct. And then by the time I left, it was like, oh, no, okay. So if I'm given a character and I'm reading and beginning to assess like their needs, their wants, what they do to get those things, I mean, basic actor stuff, but being able to deconstruct a role or a play, and if you're having trouble, this moment doesn't make sense to me, being able to figure out what that is as opposed to kind of skating through it and waiting until the next thing I understand, which I think people do a lot. Yeah, so you think you can't just go, become a great actor based on just your instincts. Do you need that? That's a hard, that's a tough question, right?

It's a really tough question. I think that, you know, for me, you know, I mean, I, I'm not saying something like revolutionary. I think if you look at my work, for example, like you see it right there, there is, for me, the construction of character is. really important and finding who that person is and and that voice and body and movement and rhythm and pace and all of those things um help to make up who that character is i'm creating yeah there's just as valuable you know like uh i mean Harrison Ford for example Harrison Ford is

spoiler alert i'm looking because he's got a statue right next to me he's not he's not he's not transformative right right he's he's essentially harrison ford right like right i mean he's not he's not brando or you know deniro or you know and not that he's effective better he's incredibly effective but it's about so like does he just have incredible instincts i don't know i don't i don't know him personally i don't know what his process is right but you know um but for me it's about it's about using all of those tools that i have now to try to completely invent in every way who this character is how they're the same as i am and how they're different so you're doing all these plays yes yes and what happens after were you aspiring

to do film and television or was it theater something you just wanted to do for the rest of your life No, I was just talking to somebody, actually, Emmanuel Shrieky, on my podcast about this, that for me, it was only theater. That was all at all. And thinking back, because I just had this conversation with her on the podcast that I, I can't, I don't even, film and television never, it just almost wasn't even a, something I thought about. Wow. Never. I really, I really, I really didn't. It just seems to me that every actor wants to get an Oscar.

every actor wants to get a you know it's like i have to admit like when i was in college i was watching tarentino movies and going i like theater but man i want to do movies i want people to see me i want i want yeah i mean i definitely i don't know i think for me that was just not that it wasn't achievable it was just not something it was not the path that i was on i guess and maybe i just did maybe i just sort of thought like oh that's for later or something like and um here's a story i don't think i've ever told um and harrison fort now it's all coming back to harrison for sweet i had a friend who i met in chicago in the chair of program for my senior year we stayed friends um and she had moved to l a and she was actually on a television show

um and um she became very good friends with calista flockhart's best friend. Harrison Ford's wife. Harrison Ford's wife. And I, she invited me to come out to the premiere. You could figure out the date of when this was. I'm going to say it's circa 1999 or 2000. Okay. The premiere of, I think it, Midsummer Night's Dream? She had Midsummer Night's Dream, the movie? I believe it's Midsummer Night's Dream. I should forgive you if you're wrong. It was, um, invited me to the premiere. and I was at the premiere and my friend lived around Westwood and so I was staying with her around Westwood walking through Westwood going to Coffee Bean for the first time the weather was amazing

and going to the premiere and Fay Donaway was sitting right behind me and I truly I that for me was like oh I like it here I want to be here. here now. Really? That was it. That was the, it was like, oh, no, this is, I belong here. And I grew up in Atlanta. So that was my home. I mean, I was born, raised through high school. That was my home. And I, as I was doing, I was in, you know, Dallas and then Minneapolis. Like I said, it was kind of based in Minneapolis. And I was traveling around and doing theater in all these places. I was like a regional theater actor. So I would go where the work was. And, um, but I was. I never had a home for for sure I never had a home and I visited here on that trip and it's such a

cliche now right it's like well yeah you were at like a humongous premiere you know they rented out in westwood you know like an acre of land and turned it into the forest it was midsummer night's dream right yeah it was midsummer night's 99 in 99 that's this fucking steel trap of a memory right there 1999 midsummer night's and so it's like oh you're at a premiere and there's fay done of like of course of course you're going to be seduced by it but i was like oh no this is where i need to be and so it was at that point that i started um i started thinking about lost just being in los angeles um and you know three ish three four years later i i i finally made it do you ever get starstruck besides faye done away i i have never seen fay done away since by

by the way. Um, she is awesome. Um, for me, it kind of, you know, I was lucky so early. I mean, first off, I saw Corell turn from one of us to something not. Right. I mean, like, right at the beginning of the show, just before the, you know, we'd done six episodes and 40 year old virgin comes out. And like, he's literally the biggest comedy star on the planet at that point. Um, I worked with Robin Williams a few times. And so like pretty early I was, you know, um, I was, I was met and introduced. And so that, that never did it for me. Um, Jack.

Nicholson. Yeah. When did you meet Jack? Because I've met Jack a few times. At the Lakers out of Lakers. That's where I met him too. Yes. I was in the back room with Jack Nicholson.

In that back cigar room? In the cigar room. That was it. I was there. Yes. That was where it was. Well, I was there and I was sitting there talking to him. And I go, man, that's a shame.

You know, they need Shaq to be back in the game because he was injured or something. He was like, yeah, well, you know, it's like if, you know, he starts talking about this and that and everything's fine. And we're having a nice conversation about the Lakers and the season. He doesn't miss a game. And all of a sudden this guy comes up to him and goes, hey, Jack, this game isn't as good as it gets, is it? And he goes, if you'll excuse me. and then fuck and I looked at the guy and go you fuck I was just talking to Nicholson you fucked it up you fucked up my mama with Nicholson he goes Jesus dude I was so mad I know exactly what you were talking about because for me it was very similar and in fact there's a in the in the bowels of Staples Center by the way he's referring there is a room chairman's room there is a room and there is a cigar room within the room which is if you're in the room where it happens then there's another room that you don't even know it that exists for a while and i was in there uh i was in

there and and my buddy was with me at the game and there's also like very nice bathrooms back there in the in the chair and so my i said i'm going to go in and maybe have a little cigar and my buddy says i'm going to go to the bathroom i'll i'll meet you in there and it was just me and jack yeah it was it was just me and jack and my buddy later tells with the story the the door into that room is a swinging door like it you know it swings both ways like a you know at a at a restaurant between the kitchen and the and the thing my buddy describes as like pushing the door like pushing the door like to walk in full speed seeing that it's me and jack and slowly backing away and shutting the door and he gave he gave me that moment he was like

i'm not going to screw this up i know how he feels about jack I'm just going to, I'm just going to, I'm just going to back. I'm just going to back away. Uh, it was, it was, it was, it was largely the same. We discussed the office very briefly, mostly about the Lakers. I want to say this was our, the bulk of our conversation was about Bynum, uh, Andrew Bynum. Wow. Center for the Lakers, the past. Yes. Um, that had some great games and then had some not great games. That I believe that was where the conversation was focused and we bit each other goodbye and then I you know we sort of did a hello several other times after I used to go quite a bit to the to the Lakers games as well but um yeah for me that that was that is it I mean I think I think for me probably that was it too just meeting Jette Nicholson because he's he's got to be my favorite of all time yeah and it's just it's

be movie star he's yes he is he that is right He is, but, and I don't mean any disrespect to like someone like, and so I'm not speaking of this person specifically, but like there's like, I guess now it would be like Tom Cruise's like movie star, but there was something about Jack that he was so good and so transformative in so many different roles, The Shining and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest in Chinatown and all of these movies. that he was just so amazing in. And at the same time, he was Jack. Like before there was the one name thing existed, he was just that. And the, you know, I read something, this is years ago. So I'm sure I'm getting it wrong.

But it was like the director camera shot to Jack at the Oscars. Like somebody had gone through and counted how many times, right? Like the host is on stage or somebody. And they like just, they just cut to Jack and, you know, like go to him. And it was like the most cutaway shot in the history of the Oscars by like a gazillion or something that's scientific. Yeah. But there was that in the sunglasses and the court side of the Lakers game.

And yeah, there's just this feeling of like, whoa. Like I think when he, when he's around, it's like, everybody's like, wow, that's a star. It's just, you know, what was I going to say about Jack Nicholson? oh there's this the shining documentary did you ever see the shining documentary i don't think i did stanley kubrook's daughter i believe vivian kubrick okay shot this documentary of the shining it's like 30 minutes and it's like jack brushing his teeth and he's like yeah i don't know if people really want to see this is this interesting i don't know and then they just they follow him around as he's getting on walking on set he's like all right here we are we're going in this room now and we're you know and he's he's jumping up and down

getting ready for the big here's johnny yeah you know and it's just awesome how could you've not seen that i haven't seen you guys got to listen you have to find it um it's on the shining um extra stuff uh it's it's superb but uh that's that's by the way i'm a big horror fan and the shining is probably my favorite horror movie of all time i think it's mine yeah for sure what's your favorite line in the shining oh man mine's really weird oh man oh man I don't know. I mean, here's Johnny comes to my. I mean, it's so iconic. You just said it, though. So that's why I'm thinking that I should say something else. No, no. Here's generally. No, I literally am like, I should say something else. Um, yeah. There's the, there's the moment on the stairs. Well, there's the moment on the stairs, but, um, it's not even him, but it's the, it's the, it's the bartender. Lloyd, Lloyd. Lloyd's like you have always been here, right? Like, like, you have always been here, right? Like, like, Oh, that's, that's, that's, that's the caretaker, uh, Grady. Grady.

Grady. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're the caretaker. Yes.

You've always, yeah. Yeah, you've always been the caretaker. Yes. I didn't quote that line well, but that, I remember, that line still just shivers. Just. Yeah. What the fuck's going on? I think my favorite is when, um, she goes up to Jack, uh, She goes up to Jack, uh,

Shelly DeVall's character. What's her name? Wendy, Wendy. She goes, Jack, Jack, someone's at the hotel, someone's here at the hotel, they hurt Danny. And then he turns around and looks at her and goes, you out of your fucking mind. That's probably my favorite moment because it's so non-sequitur is weird. No, I know my favorite moment, which isn't a line, is when the camera comes around and you see. all work and no play makes jack a dull boy millions of times in that on that typewriter

boy was that that's my favorite moment whether you see me typing whether you see me working whether you don't see me working you're doing really good jack i know that you know this i mean i do i don't do it a lot but i do love nicholson thank you thank you yes but it was a yeah it was an opportunity i mean we were talking about nicholson we were talking jack i know um you have a book well first of all you're a New York Times bestseller I mean how that seems like an impossible task your book welcome to Dunder Mifflin the ultimate oral history of the office was a best seller yes how many copies did you sell what do you have to how many to be a bestseller I don't know but quite a lot jeez were you were you like surprised um yes in part I mean I I mean I think a lot of times as we

were talking about earlier you know if you build it they will come meaning the office fans and but I we were we the book launched on because I was in Scrant I went to Scranton and signed copies of the book in Scranton and I'm going to say that was a Thursday or Friday evening the book launched on a Tuesday and I started getting text messages that the book was no longer available at Amazon this is like three days later and I was like oh how many sales do you have to for Amazon to text you this book is no longer available I know I don't know but which was you know it had been like months of it not being available right like it's like pre-sale available this date and then so quickly after it after launching for it to say that I was like oh no no get them more books where are the and it's not quick to reprint books by the way no it's not there were some more somewhere but like Amazon's entire allotment, which I think Amazon is huge. You know, you send a lot of books to Amazon.

It was gone. It was, it was a lot of fun. The whole experience of, of getting the gang back together and, and, and, and, and telling that story. And for me, it was truly, for me, it was based on a question because there was some conversation about doing a podcast and, and telling the story of the show and, And how do we do that? And I've never really been into like presentational type stuff or like let me explain to you why we or us were so brilliant.

But, you know, we were, I kind of referred to this before, but we were the number one show on NBC for most of the time that we were on. So 10 years, nine seasons. The first two, we struggled mightily. but for most of the time we were on but we were never like we never thought of ourselves and I know that our collective experience was in the NBC you know pantheon of these shows so like Seinfeld or cheers or friends for sure we were never that we were like a solid hit right now for NBC that doesn't have a lot else on the air that's truly how we were treated by NBC and that's that's what we were um and then three four years ago now streaming numbers start coming out and my experience walking through an airport or being out in public suddenly is way more intense than it ever even was back when we were on Thursday nights every wow and that was the entire experience of the book of starting the podcast was really based on that question, which was why? Why is this, why is this happening?

Because it is one of the biggest hits in the history of television. Well, now, now, more people are watching it now than any other show in television. Like, think about that. That's insane. So, you know, you still have the cover, what, Stranger Things or, you know, whatever the hit streaming show of the moment is. More people are watching the office than are watching those shows. Still. Still. that's remarkable it's insane i know it's insane and so that for me was it which is why is this happening what and can we go back and can we deconstruct decisions that were made that maybe have made it the show that it is yeah and not just survive this long but actually now be thriving again like michael we were not making a show for kids this was not a conversation yeah

Like, we were like, oh, if people who work in an office can maybe relate to it, then we'll be okay. Like, we'll stay on the air. Right. And, but like the kids are watching it, it's crazy. That is just insane. The new book, you're releasing your second book, a seriously good chili cookbook. Yes. In September.

I didn't know you were, like your character, you're a chili aficionado. I'm a chili aficionado. Yes, the character is. Um, has become a, a, a, a big meme, jiff, gif, gif, gif, yeah. Um, you know, it's just become one of these, one of the moments from the show. And so I, you know, I think the first couple of times was really like, let me, let me do it for the gram, right? Like, I'm going to make some chili and take a couple pictures and this will be fun. Right. Um, um, um, And then I do enjoy cooking.

I love to cook. I would love to taste chinchilla. I mean, don't just even say it like that. I mean, you have compiled it says 177 of the world's best chili recipes from celebrity chef's restaurant owners, chili cookoff winners, dedicated fans, and of course, himself. Yes. That's crazy. So I have my own recipe. They have the recipe from the show or their best guess of it.

But no. So a year or is a year ago, I went, this is a thing that exists. And not only does it exist, it's like, I should have done my research. It's like 60 years, give or take a couple of years. The World Championship chili cookoff exists in this country, sponsored by the International Chili Society. going around 50 to 60 years and there's a competition for like world the world champion and so everyone who is there is a winner right like everyone has won their local their firehouse the

you know the firefighters have one there's um you know their region their state they're whatever and there's like a hundred of near this is a field and there's just people cooking chili everywhere and you're like tasting it and trying to evaluate it and and i judged it um and it was a crazy crazy experience but so much fun and the passion that people have for i think because it takes time and i think in a lot of ways the longer it takes the better it and so it becomes very communal it becomes very family whether that's like your actual family or like your friends or whatever the people who enjoy it too um it's something you share i love it i just there there's the culture of it i love i just love and there's like beans or no beans or you know green or meatless

and meat and turkey and this it's a million ways you can do it a million yeah well there's at least 177 277 ways that's fantastic um so yeah i i i had so much fun uh putting that together and uh Yeah, coming out, coming out, September 13th. A seriously good chili cookbook. Let me just ask you, is your chili, would you think it would compete with some of the top chili makers in the world? Yeah, why not? Yeah. I mean, I don't mess around.

How long does it take to you to make a bowl of chili? Well, you know, typically you make a pot of it, not just a bowl. Sorry. Can you imagine? Just you're literally, you're a bowl of chili. You're literally just measuring out enough meat for one bowl. I would say, I mean, there's a certain point in time where I do think, like, the longer you let it go, for my recipe, the longer you let it go, just the better it is, if you have more time. So, like, ideally, I'm starting late morning and going to do it in the evening and just let it just, just let it just get all up in there and the flavors.

If you ever invite me to where you live for some chili, I would go. Okay. If you ever have a party, a chili party or a chilly gathering. Okay. Please. This is called, by the way, the podcast, off the beat podcast. Yes. How long have you been doing this?

So I have been doing a podcast or another. Now, we're at about three years. And what I mean by that is I started with the office folks, which were really taken from the interviews that that for for that book but like i had corral for three hours i had gregg daniels for i think four and a half hours or whatever and i sat down and we recorded all these conversations and then we released those interviews and not just them but like the chairman of nbc and designers on the show and writers and directors and um and that was really about again trying to figure out or at least come up with some answers to why the show is so popular now.

But, you know, there's a limited number of people who worked on the office. And I just started loving doing it. And so I went to I heart and just said, like, I want to keep going. And they're like, go. And so now it's really, my goal is sort of the same. It's just now much more individual, which is about, it's called off the beat because a, a director and theater director that I used to work with that told me that all great comedy happens off the beat that there's an expected rhythm which you could call the sitcom rhythm

but when something truly surprises you when something changes what that expected pattern is those are the that's when it's truly special and so for me that's those are the moments that I'm trying to find And, you know, we're talking to Emmy winners and, you know, athletes now who have, you know, won MVPs and Super Bowls or whatever. But I'm really interested in those moments that happened that started them on a certain trajectory that changed, yeah, that changed where they are and what they become. That's cool. That's really cool.

Thank you. Off the Beat podcast. Thank you. Listen to it, folks. folks. I got some really loyal listeners. They will listen. Please. And if you ever need a guest, man. All right. I'm on. No, you're in. You're in. I would do it. You're in. I have a sort of an interesting story. Yes. I think. I don't know. I'm clearly. This is called shit talking with Brian Baumgardner. This is my top tier patrons get to ask questions. Okay. This is rapid fire. This is

the end of the podcast coming up. Rapid fire. So I should answer as quickly as I can. You can, but if you want to elaborate, you feel free. You don't have to rush through it. You're like, I really. need to get out of it. No. No, I'm trying to understand the rules. Yeah, there's no rules, really. It's like, you know, you could rapidly speak or you could take a moment. But go to patreon.com slash inside of you to join Patreon, become the family. I'll send you a message after. I appreciate the support for the show. It really, really helps the podcast. All right. Chris R. I know you just released a chili cookbook, which we just talked about. Yes. So I got to know which recipe is your favorite. I mean, how are you going to give that? You know, I, well, I will say,

I'll say two one mine obviously two I would try I'm not going to pull her name right now but last year's winner of the home style division which basically means with beans I in the preliminary rounds I tasted her chili passed it into the finals as my favorite and it ended up winning the entire thing. So, one, I was pretty proud of myself for being able to, that other people agreed with me. Yeah. And two, it's absolutely delicious. So the home style winner, I know it's there. I apologize for not remembering her name, but from 2021, the ICS World Championship Chili Cookoff, try that one for sure.

Wow. Emily asks, is there anything you would change about Kevin, your character in the office if they gave you a chance? Anything. Um, I wish he'd had a longer term romantic relationship. Fair enough. Sophie M. Do you have any fun stories from your episode on Screen Queens?

So that's from Sophie? That's from Sophie. Sophie, thank you so much for the question. Sophie, I don't really. I don't, I don't, I don't really. I, I mean, I had a good time. I know that it was it was fun it was entertaining those guys can be really good and I don't really have a memory I'm sorry

Leanne what or who inspires you Jack there we've learned that Jack inspires me honestly I still love creating characters I still love that and getting a script and particularly now being tasked with a character that I haven't done before or I haven't done to the masses before, you know, maybe something I worked on in theater and it's been a number of years and being able to go back into it and do that. That would be, that really inspires me and gets me really excited. Maya P. What is the best game of golf you've ever played? I shot 72 once. I was the course was a par 71 and I was under par on the front and my brain couldn't even comprehend that that was the case.

And so I thought that I was already won over. I lipped out a put and then only later realized that if that had gone, I would have been even. But 72. That's my best. Have you ever finally, have you ever dealt with any like anxiety or depression or issues like that for you seem to kind of a happy guy guy who has it together but has ever been ruts in your life where you just couldn't get it going um i've been very lucky in that regard um i mean look everybody from time to time has difficult times that's not something that i've particularly

struggled with no i and and and so i my my i'm not a good person to speak to it um i i i guess i'm just lucky what do you what do you do to stay kind of like your mind to golf for real you golf a lot i mean i try i mean to play a lot but that for me is oh it's and the reason why is because i i am a i am in some ways a micromanager right like in terms of my business and um you know i i'm always looking at every angle and my brain will sort of like spin like that um when i play golf i'm thinking of really truly for those four-ish hours i'm thinking of one thing which is trying to get this ball in the hole your mind doesn't wander and it really doesn't and i and i also to the frustration of of people i now my manager i tell him i'm i'm i'm checking out like i mean i tell him where i'm going

right as opposed to like trying to hide it or whatever because i really try unless there's something urgently happening to not look at my phone like i just i put it away don't look at it and you think that helps significantly a hundred it helps me i think i think it would help everyone a hundred to shut your phone off every once in a while and just go do something and forget about yeah you know that's i mean for a lot of people it's hiking right or or you something like that takes less time generally than then golf and I know that it that it takes a lot of time but I am I am by nature you know I played sports growing up I'm competitive and so that that kind of drives me yeah to do it's like no I want to play better I want to do better I want to hit a better shot and and you just every shot there's a there's

potential for greatness and also shittiness and horror and shittiness yes self-loathing and all that but at least it's just about this game and at the end that that is that i will say i will be incredibly competitive and really in it and five minutes after we're you're over it no i'm totally over it like yeah i don't go home healthy healthy mind yeah uh the book coming out is a seriously good chili cookbook comes out in september uh the podcast is off the beat podcast bongart and this has been a real treat for me dude so much fun thank you so much thanks for allowing me to be inside of you today i enjoyed it me too there you have it uh i hope you enjoyed that one i don't know how you couldn't have was just a damn

good interview wasn't it i hope you liked it brian's uh he's a mensch and i love doing his podcast and uh thank you brian for coming on the show i appreciate you it was a long drive from wherever the hell you live we can't say because he doesn't want anybody to know where he lives But not close. You know that I live in the Hollywood Hills in California. Just a big shout out to the other podcast that I'm doing now with Tom Welling and Ryan here is a part of that. And that's called Talkville.

And we air every Wednesday. We watch every episode of Smallville and then we critique it the next day. So you will hear what we think of the episodes. There's a hotline. There's a bunch of cool stuff. There's some merch coming out. And exciting stuff. So I appreciate that.

And if you want to support that podcast, cash you can get a patron.com slash talkville and support that one. So that's about it. I think it's time to do what we always do. It's, uh, the reading of the top tier. By the way, I had my mom in town. Yeah. Yeah. How was that? Wasn't easy. Was it not easy. Um, I love my mother, but, uh, you know, she's, I don't know. She's, uh, she fell a couple of times. And, uh, it was hard i mean i want to see her healthy and happy and that's what i i want but uh i wouldn't say it was the most fun that i've ever had my anxiety was high here's the shout outs nancy d lea sara sara v little lisa ukeko jill b b robert c jason w sophy m christin k rage c joshua d josh

d jp jennifer n Stacey L. Jamal F. Correct. Janelle B. Kimberly E. Mike E. L. Don Supremont, M. Chad W. Leanne P. Janine R. Maya. P. Maddie. M. Belinda. N. Nice. Chris H. David. Sheila G. Brad D. Ray H. Tab of the T. Tom N. Lilliana A. T. Togia M. Betsy D.

And by the way, I want to say, thank you for everybody. I see a lot of names on here that are also supporting Talkville. And it means the world to me. So thank you for support. not only inside you, but the new podcast as well. It means a lot to, to me and Tom. Chad L. Marion, Dan N. Big Stevie. W. Angel. M. Riannan. C. Corey. L. K. Damn. Deve. Nexon. Michelle. K. A. Jeremy C. Andy T. G. G. G., G., G., G., G., G., Andy T. G., G., G., G., Andy T. G., G., G., M., David, David C., M., S. Orlando C. Caroline R. Christine S. Sarah S. Eric H. Shane R. Emma.

Shane R. Emma. R. Jeremy V. Andrew M. Zatouichi 77. Oracle. Chris R. Michael F. Karina N. Michelle D. Amanda R. Amanda S. Gen B. And Kevin E. Those are the top tier patrons. Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Every week, I'll keep going. If you guys keep going from myself, Michael Rosen, I'm hearing the Hollywood Hills of California. Hollywood Hills. I'm Ryan Taylor. We'll wave to the camera.

We love you. Be good to yourselves, folks. Be good to yourselves. And we'll see you back here for the next episode of Inside of you. All right. Talk soon. Football season is here. Oh, man.

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