Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - The Office's RAINN WILSON: Tools for Ego

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Rainn Wilson (The Office, Metaphysical Milkshake) joins us this week to discuss his tools for managing a controversial ego, the moment that changed things for him while filming The Office, and how he defines purpose and happiness in life. We discuss therapy without parents and may have just inspired a special third version of Rainn coming back next time. Also, we get into anxiety, the subtle power of gratitude, and the origin Rainn’s show Metaphysical Milkshake. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ryan Tejas is here. It's so exciting to have you with me. Yes. It seems like it's been a while. It has been. We pre-recorded a couple. We did. We did some pre-recording.

I hope you're, look, thanks for listening. Thanks for making our show a choice in your choices. we're not good with words anymore no we're not good with words it's uh it was a long weekend but uh i really appreciate it i appreciate you listening and tuning in we've had some really great episodes and people have been writing in and uh i appreciate you writing in and telling us what you think of the show um make sure you give a review um email your friends tell everyone to listen the handles if you want to follow us on the uh instagram and the facebook are at inside of you podcast and on Twitter at Inside You Pod

Reviews are wonderful and spreading the word, spreading the gospel. Thank you to all my patrons out there who give back to the show and they're a real big part of why the show is still going. And Ryan's a big part of why it's still going. I love having Ryan with me. And thanks to Jason, my editor and Bryce, my producer,

and Cumulus Radio for believing in the podcast. We've got a great episode today. um rain Wilson he's back and rain you know he's got this podcast metaphysical milkshake with resa oslin and it's uh it's great it really makes you question or think think of the questions of life of you know why we're here and what we're doing and uh i just uh i'd love having rain on the show because he's such a bright guy and he's so friendly i get intimidated sometimes when people that are a lot smarter than me are on the podcast. And so I was like, well, what are we going to talk about? And at the end, I felt like, hey, you know, it worked out. And I got to remember

tell myself that, you know, hey, you could do this. You're interviewing people. You're, you can do this, man. But I try to have good conversations with people and it was easy to have a conversation with him. Did you enjoy it? It was good. You were afraid of getting deep and you went there and it was fine. We got a little bit. The water was fine. The water was fine. You could swim. Tasted great. It's great. Like a milkshake. Hey, I'm going to be at L.A. Comic-Con December 4th and 5th, and we're doing the Smallville Nights in L.A., Tom Welling and I. So get your tickets for L.A. Comic-Con, the fourth and fifth. The fourth is the big Smallville Nights. We've already sold a lot of tickets. It's an intimate evening. We read scenes with fans. I put on a bald cap. It's pretty funny. And we have a blast doing that. I hope you're having a marvelous week. And I hope you have a great Thanksgiving. I mean, happy Thanksgiving to everybody out there. Let's be thankful and grateful and all that stuff in between.

But without further ado, why don't we get into the amazing Rain Wilson? It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. pulled up in the car and I go, look at you. You look refreshed and you went, oh. Yeah. What is that? What was that? You were one of these guys like myself that you're hard on yourself, aren't you? Sure, I'm hard on myself. I think probably most of your listeners are angst-ridden, hard on themselves, complicated individuals. Sure. Because you, because you are,

and we are. Yeah. Um, refreshed is hard. It's hard. I, um, I'll be honest with you. Um, a good friend of mine died last night. How do you like that? I don't like it. Yeah. You know, it's really fucked, if I may say F on the show. You're asking yourself for permission to say fuck on your own podcast. If it's okay with you.

Fuck, yeah. You might not be one of those guys that want to say the F bomb on the show. Ryan say it just so we feel better. Fuck. There it is. Is Ryan the news, is he like sidekick? He's my engineer and he chirps in here and there. You know, he takes notes.

And he's, uh, he's, uh, he's, uh, he's a personality as his portal to, to fame. I think he's already famous. No, no, you're supposed to skyrocket me to super start on that. Yeah, that's exactly what I'm going to do. He's, uh, it's still the plan, Ryan, banking on Lex Luthor. He's better looking than you are. Jesus, he threw out the Lex Luthor, do you hear that? I did.

That wasn't kind. He's better looking than you are. But he is. He's very, Lex Luthor or Ryan. Ryan, Ryan, Ryan is better looking than I am. You know, first of all, I'm incredibly sorry, but like the last time you came here, the night before your dog died. Wow. This is probably the last time

you're going to do this podcast. The next time I do it, just call me after someone. Maybe after you die. Yeah. Maybe I'll die right here in your podcast. That would be, ratings would go up. This is getting very macabre very fast.

But I did a film two years ago, two and a half years ago called Blackbird that no one saw. I like all of the films that I do. with Susan Sarandon and Kate Winslet, among others. Wow. And Roger Michelle was the director. He's who passed away.

And he did Notting Hill. He did this movie, Venus, with Peter O'Toole. And he's done a lot of just terrific film Changing Lanes, I think, with Ben Affleck. He's got a new one coming out called The Duke. It's a British film. He's just a classy... How old? 63, something like that.

See, this is what scares me. It was just happened? Heart attack, yeah. Yeah. I don't know any details of that other than that. But, you know, way too young. And he was a really special dude. I mean, he was just kind, insightful, sensitive, you know, devoted, collaborative, smart as hell, really wickedly, wickedly funny.

So it's a bummer. I'm sorry. Yeah. How do you deal with, I mean, how do you deal with death? I mean, is it something that just you think about all the time? You think, oh, I'm in my 50s now. It's, you know, I'm not that. Don't date me here.

Well, you know, it just. Did you print out my Wikipedia page there? No, I just wrote some things down that I probably won't even discuss, you know? Can, can Ryan finish the interview, please? Ryan, tell me about how Rain feels about death. No, I mean, can he interview me? Yes, Ryan. Just be me and Ryan.

But asking that first question. How do you feel about death, Rain? Thanks, Ryan. I'll tell you, this has been the year of death for me. I'm sorry to get all crazy. This is where to do it. This is where to do it. Yeah.

I'm, I'm, uh, yeah. This is been the year. My father died 13 months ago. Oh, okay. And then I lost two friends to cancer during this last year. And now, you know, Roger passed away. And he was, we were friends, but it's not like we were like hung out all the time or anything like that.

But my other two friends were very, very close to me. And no one from COVID. I don't know anyone who's passed from COVID. I mean, I've heard of friends of friends and relatives and whatnot. But I, yeah, so it's been a lot of death this year. I'm getting so much. You know, in the last year and a half, I lost my grandfather. It was my best friend.

I lost my sister. I lost my dog, Irv. Your sister. My sister, my half-sister. Okay. My dad's second. marriage and she was sick for a long time and she passed away and it's just been the one thing after another and um you know i i i think oh you know you're doing all right you know but i don't deal with

things well i sort of bottle them up or i just hide them away and they come out they manifest themselves in different ways and then they come out and uh come out sideways yeah yeah i mean how do you do i mean were you close with your father um you can make me cry Well, you're going to make me cry. Well, you know, I mean, I cry. I've cried on this podcast. People have cried on this podcast. Have they really?

Yeah, or you could just say, fuck off. I'm not answering that. Have you cried on this podcast? Me, not yet, no. No, but there has been Bobby Lee, you know, the comedian? I know Bobby. He cried on here about his father's death. Jennifer Love Hewitt cried on the podcast.

Yeah. It's not something I just, I urge people to cry. I just, you know, I try to like get inside of. What if love was everyone's middle name? Bobby Love Lee, Rain, Rain. Love Wilson. Michael Love Rosenbaum. That'd be ironic for me.

I think because you've never known love? I've never loved myself, Rain. That's hysterical. So, yeah, I think, so last time, I don't know when I was on two, three years ago, sometime I was on your podcast, had a great time, loved it. Still get people who are like, I love her inside of you, bro. Like, you got a nice, a nice loyal following out there. And we got deep.

I remember and we talked a little bit about spirituality, faith, my family, et cetera. And yeah, my dad and I, like most fathers and sons, we had a very complicated relationship. So my mom took off when I was two years old. So I went and stayed with my dad. So my dad was the only kind of, I didn't really see my mom again from between two and 15. Usually it's the mom, the dad that takes off, right? Yeah. So opposite for me.

And then so he was the only kind of. constant through my life. I didn't have any siblings. He was tried and true. He always was very supportive of me being an artist, being an actor. You know, he was always there for me at the same time. He was very, he had such a traumatic childhood himself. He was really completely cut off from his emotions. So I didn't get the warmth, the hugs, the nurturing, the, the, I didn't get kind of listened to the essentials the essentials I feel the same way that's oh my god it's like a mirror so he's there he was there but it wasn't really there so I really loved him and yet there was always this kind of disconnect now truth be told he really tried hard in the last

like three to four years before he passed and he was 79 when he died we had gone through a lot together and healed a lot together and so there was there was even greater intimacy so believe it or not even in his late 70s there was a great more expression of love between the two of us so how do you do that though when not having that connection not having that bond for your 90% 95% of your life with a man how does that start was something you started to do or did he reach out or you know because that's that's a hard thing to start start up so late in life like the some kind of bond or him trying i feel like i've done that too with my father i wrote him this letter that was passionate but it was also very hard on him and just saying hey fuck you've got this wonderful kid out in los angeles and you

could have so much fun with and you shit on it and you know it took time and then he started to come out of his shell a little bit and was nicer and trying harder and trying harder with my family my grandfather when he was sick with Alzheimer's but um you know it took me writing a letter that was just like almost like a fuck you letter yeah and but it wasn't easy and i didn't think it would happen it was almost like every day i'm like oh he's being nice today how long is this going to last you know but uh how did that start for you well we had we had some ups and downs and we had some letters we had some angry letters go back and forth a lot of it for me was through my work in therapy um and sorry to sound like a cliche but you know that old phrase like don't go

to the hardware store for milk and i kept going to the hardware store for milk in terms of kept going to my dad for a kind of love he was incapable of giving me. So once I was able to kind of really deeply do that work and get out my resentments and my hurt and my trauma that I had experienced vis-a-vis him and just accepted him on a deeper level, I think most of the work was actually mine to do, not really his to do. Because he was trying in his own way and it might have been very limited but I did see him making an attempt to connect and and have more of a heart little things little things little connection and and so then I had to stop being like you know he's never going to meet my needs my unmeadable needs are never going to be

met by my dad I'm never going to get that hug that is like rain you matter you are incredible I see you. He would say I'm proud of you. Like, I'm so proud of you. All your acting work and all you were great in that movie and I loved it and good work in that. Like, so he was supportive. That's cool. So that's good.

But never like, really like, how are you, son? How are you? What is going on with you in your soul? I want how let's, you know, is this? This is my relationship with my father. This is therapy for me. This is exactly right. It's like, you know.

Why don't you bring your dad on the point? Oh, my God. No, no, no, no. Why don't you let me interview him? Oh, boy. On a special inside of you, Wayne Wilson interviews Harvey Rosenbaum. Listen, I know all about your relationship because I lived with my father, Mark, that's my dad, and I could just see you talking to my father. He would be completely closed off and freaked out.

He doesn't, you know, he's, again, when you were saying, I've never heard the word, you know, I love you. He said it once in that letter, like, if you ever don't think I love you, read this letter. or something like that but never i love you proud of you uh really how are you doing like i think he just says it to say it and then like okay good but how you doing i could say anything i could say i just took a shit okay great so it's not really deep it's just very everything's always been surfaced and for me to try and think it's going to get any more than that i'm crazy it makes me a crazy person because it's just not going to happen. It's not in him and it's me wanting something that's just never going to happen. So I feel like there's a similarity there. Would he ever go to

a therapy with you? No, I don't think so. You might want to try. One of the things I did, I was going through, this was a while ago now 10 years ago. I was going through a really dark time and I went through this intensive therapy program. And then I went back and I brought both my parents. I I brought my dad and my mom to do some work with me, just each one for like two or three days, like three or four sessions. So it wasn't like 20, 12 hours a day or something like that, but it was intense.

Did you cry? I did cry, yeah, yeah, I cried a lot. In front of your father. Sure, I've never cried in front of my father. I feel like that would just be, I couldn't do it. That's why you should let me interview him. I'll cry in front of your father. I can't imagine, like,

You, I'm sure this has been said by many people out there listening, but I can't imagine my father going to therapy with me. It just wouldn't happen. He wouldn't open up his story. It's one of those things where his story is completely different. Well, did he go through a lot of, let me just jump in and say, did he go through a lot of trauma or does he come from generations of closed off men? Closed off men. My grandfather's pretty closed off, but incredibly loving to his grandkids. There was not a better man to me and a role model than my grandfather. And I think that kind of probably bothered him at the same time he liked that I had a relationship with his father but it was closed off and you know I remember him saying something he was like well

you know I was hit I go you were abused no but I got spanked I go okay you know I got hit he goes oh I never hit you I go dad seriously are you telling me that I never was hit and he just threw it away anyway what I was trying to say is he didn't want to talk about that didn't want to go there Yeah. No, he has a very different memory. And well, I'll give it to my dad for for showing up to that because that was he never liked therapy. He never trusted therapy. Always said like psychology was a soft science and it was, you know, he viewed psychology and and consulting. What is that called? You know, let me take that again. He he viewed, you know, therapy as essentially the same as like rainbow crystal. meditation and essential oils. You know what I mean? Like it just was all in this new age and nothing against new age even, but he just viewed it all as this kind of poppycock.

So for him to come meant a lot and he was trying to make those little steps. So I will stay grateful about that. So there's so many of my needs were not met and yet super grateful for what he was able to give. And the tiptoeing steps he took toward me over the course of his life. And your mom was in there, too? I think there was like one or two sessions where they were together. So that was weird. So my birth mother who left when I was two and my dad, both in their mid-70s,

early 70s. And then I had some, and then mostly kind of separate with them. Because it wasn't much to talk to them. But yeah. And boy, there's a lot more I'd like to say, but I still have parents and relatives that are still alive and I can't I can't completely go there dark shit yeah some darker stuff yeah inside of you is brought to you by rocket money I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money period it's rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find

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heard about them from my show. You know, last time we talked, I remember we talked about the office briefly. We didn't really get into the office because everybody knows a lot about the office. It's like, you know, we don't have to talk about. Everybody loves the office. You were loved. You're loved. You're loved character, but I remember you saying something pretty profound. You're like, I was a bit of

a dick or I was maybe a little hard at a certain point on that show. And do you think, because I look at the podcast now and Soul Pancake, which, you know, founded Soul Pancake to create a space where people from all walks of life could discuss and question what it means to be human. And do you think that there was something that happened to you maybe while filming on the office or the way you were or the way you felt like you were that you needed to change. So you started doing things like metaphysical milkshake, which we'll talk about and all these spiritual things and getting in the Baha'i faith and things like that. Do you think that, did it start kind of back then or soon after?

It's kind of finding yourself who you are. Well, you know, part of it is, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to be like Mr. Hollywood recovery guy and there's a whole bunch of people talking about that. but I am in recovery. I have experienced with the 12 steps and I've had, you know, issues with alcohol in the distant past. And so for me, it's part of that process.

So it's like powerlessness and unmanageability around stuff. And that goes hand in hand with ego, narcissism, an entitlement of being an addict. And then all of a sudden you add fame and throw fame into that mix. right your character defects swell up and uh flare up and whatnot and at the same time i'm trying to you know connect with my higher power and you know become more spiritual and more grounded in my

spiritual life and trying to be a better person sometimes succeeding sometimes not so it's like this what i'm describing is like all of us you don't have to be an addict to be going through this this is what this is what we do we have battles with our ego and we have time when we're trying to make ourselves in the world a better place. So it's part of this struggle. But I will say that those early years of the office, especially like 2006, 2009 right in there, like there was all of,

I went from this unemployed character actor to all of a sudden being like completely recognizable in this huge TV celebrity. And then was getting leads in a lot of films and getting offered a lot of stuff and money. And all of, we were always broke my wife and I. and all of it. So that will inflate your ego and your narcissism too. It was a tremendous challenge. So SoulPankake, the digital media company, which has now kind of been subsumed by participant media, which is an even larger media company, was part of my, yeah, it's part of my attempt to kind of understand myself and other people, what it means to be a human being, that we're all on a philosophical journey, we're on a psychological journey, we're on a spiritual journey, you know, we're on an artistic journey.

And metaphysical milkshake, the podcast that we're doing, is kind of born out of that and that whole process. Is it one thing or many things that you do, a process, like a daily process? Like if your ego gets in the way, are you aware of it? And you go, Rain, that's your ego. And I have this tool to say that this is your ego and that's not where you should be coming from. Do you have certain tools that you use when something arises that you don't like about yourself or you're upset about something that's a great question and basically you know how if you have diabetes you might have like a ins you have to like prick your blood or you wear a band or something and it monitors like

your blood sugar level or your heart rate or blood pressure whatever insulin levels etc like there's that monitoring like i have to do a daily monitoring of myself for on a number of different levels. Every day. Every day. I have to monitor. It's not intensive. I just kind of several times a day. I just have to take a few deep breaths and check in with myself. Where's my anxiety? Because I've had an anxiety, diagnosed anxiety disorder. You two. High five. Yes. I wish I didn't high five you on that one. I know. And I've had depression in the past and very serious depression. And, And also I have to check my entitlement, arrogance, ego stuff as well. That's one of the things I need to be checking in on.

I always say, like, you know, what are the tools? Like, I have to exercise a lot and I have to meditate pretty, or pray and meditate pretty much daily in order just to get to normal. It doesn't like, it doesn't make me, if I, if I meditate for 10 or 15 minutes and pray, turn things over. If I'm exercise, it's not like all of a sudden I'm like Mr. Zen Dalai Lama. I'm just like operating as any normal American in Los Angeles. So if I'm operating a deficit if I don't do that work. Right. I mean, do you get anxiety attacks still to this day? I would say I would, I get close. I get close. Most of my anxiety attacks were in my 20s.

Right. And then I had some in my 40s, but it's been a while now. It's been. at least. What do you do? Like besides, you meditate, you check in with yourself. Are there other things, other tools that work for you that might work for someone else? Like, like, I wake up with anxiety. I feel, you know, rain's coming over. It's got to be a good podcast. I got to do this. And I, you know, I feel a little overwhelmed at times or just with little things. I think even the little things overwhelm me. Would it have killed you to wear a little bit nicer shirt? What's wrong with this? It's a good color on me. oh you want with the color because it's an old t-shirt you put on like an eight-year-old t-shirt you were a t-shirt yeah this is a long sleeve and it's it's a little i think it's sexy you just a little sexy move yeah you shimmied anyway um what was the tools the tools that you use like you know something i could use that you know Rosenbaum this might help you or one of your listeners i do this every day i meditate for 20 minutes to this music or to to nothing thing or what is it? Well, I certainly, I meditate and I pray and I exercise at least five days a week

and it's not like I'm in wicked shape, but I just kind of need to do that. And I have like one thing that really helps very specifically is, so human beings are wired to be fearful and were wired to be negative because that's what kept us alive for 100, 200,000 years. You know, if the, if the Bush are shaking over there. It's like, oh, shit, the pushes are shaking. Oh, there's a lion in there. So we're kind of wired. Fight or flight stuff. Yeah, for danger and, you know, and in socialization, we're very wary about and concerned with, like, status and where we are and how we're perceived and whatnot. And so gratitude is an incredibly powerful tool. And, you know, there's a lot of podcasts on gratitude and a lot of writing has come out, especially the last like five years.

but like with a group of friends of mine, we have a gratitude text chain. So every morning we send five things that we're grateful for. And it sounds so dumb. No, I've done that before too. Yeah. I have.

I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful that I have a, you know, my dog is with me and I'm not alone in the house. It could be anything, right? Yeah, anything, yeah. Today I texted, I'm grateful for the turkey sandwich I had. You know, it's like, but it just, that little bit of a shift, that little 1%, 2%,

shift of your perspective through gratitude is a big help. It really does help because we can live in a, and my tendency is to live in a perpetual state of anxiety and discontent with how things are and what my life is. So if I can shift towards gratitude and love and serenity, just even a little bit to counterbalance that, like realizing like, look, I've got my health. And yeah, a lot of people died this year, but, you know, a lot didn't. and, you know, my family's still together and I get to do cool creative work and I get to go on the inside of you podcast and, you know, there's, there's wonderful, there's wonderful things. I have a nice red pants and a nice.

Are those red? Gray. I'm colorblind. I really didn't think they were red. Yeah. They're redish. They're like brick, brick red, yeah. They're nice.

It's a nice band. All right. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate it. So pray, meditation, gratitudes. Those are the three keys. Those are some of the keys, yeah.

You do it before you go to bed. You sit there and close your eyes and say what I'm grateful for before you sleep at night. I haven't done that, but that is a very good idea to do. Because people, they have the studies, gratitude is an incredible tool. Just Google it. If you're out there, just the studies on gratitude, like you get sick less, you live longer, you get more, you know, raises at work and promotions at work. Like people like you better.

You gain social capital through being grateful. Like gratitude is, it's like a, it's like a, wonder drug. Do you say your gratitudes, Ryan? No. You never say what you're grateful for. No. I mean, no, not in this kind of, uh, yeah, no, it's not something I've ever focused on. Do you meditate? No, I can, no, I don't meditate either. Do you pray? Uh, nope. Okay, so none of the three. Yeah. But, but, but Ryan is not as complicated as you and I. I mean, no, no offense. I mean, he gets, he gets anxiety. I'm sure you got stuff going on, but, but you seem like a piece of a lad.

I'm like a bowl of oatmeal. That's, uh, yeah. What is that? What is the bowl of oatmeal? That's just pretty plain. I don't think you're that plain. I'm just kidding.

But you don't think you don't let things get to you as much. Uh, I mean, I can let things get to me. Uh, but I mean, I probably should be doing these things, all these gratitudes and things because this has been a stressful year.

And this is just, there's just been a lot of, uh, going to bed very anxious. Yeah. I think I need to change my ways. I think I need to make it. I mean,

I think that's the first step is like, if you're doing the same thing, expecting different results, we know what the answer is. But if I just wake up every morning and I say my gratitude and I pray and I exercise and I'm already in the right path and you guarantee me this will help in some way. Guarantee me this. This is a hard guarantee here?

Yeah, sure. All right. Yeah, I guarantee that this will make a difference, you know. But I think the other thing that we had started off talking about ego and I do think like a in whatever way you can do it in therapy and journaling you can do it in 12 steps there's so many different ways to do it just talking to a friend but just recognizing like when my ego perceives a threat when i'm in my ego when i'm in um my self-will and getting defensive prickly and comparing myself envious all of this stuff the stuff of ego like that needs to be my

monitored. You know, we have to, like, have like a heart monitor and be taking the temperature of that creature and accept it. It's part of us. We have egos because we're part chimpanzee and we want, you know, we want good stuff for ourselves and it's what's kept us alive. There's nothing evil about it, but it can dominate us and it can, and it's not who we are. We are spiritual beings living a human experience. We're, we're riding around in these meat suits. We get 80, 90, 100 years. years, you know, if you're unfortunate, like Roger Michelle, you get 60 some years. If you're fortunate, like Norman Lear is 100 years old, you know, but whatever it is, it's a handful of decades in the meat suit, but we're luminous, radiant beings that are beyond our ego. And so

I do think that there are also spiritual tools that you can find from so many of the spiritual traditions that can help us on this to navigate this journey. What's a book to read that you'd say The one book, if you're just getting into this and you just want to find some peace, what's that one book? The Damapada by the Buddha. The Damapada by the Buddha. Easy read, pictures?

Easy read. No pictures, but honestly, an easy read. One of the great things about the book, and it's important to read like the Damapata. Don't read like Buddha of the day quotes because most of those are just made up. And in fact, there's websites of like, what really did the Buddha say

and what's just like made up? Because people were just slapping stuff on, like, take a deep breath and love yourself, the Buddha. You know, they'll just like slap up a new age quote and then contribute it, attribute it to the Buddha. So, but the study in Buddhism is all about this, this clutching, grasping attachment to ourselves, to our wants, to our egos, to the stuff of the world,

including what we're, where the milieu that we work in in Hollywood in terms of fame, but all this grasping, clutching, wanting, never enough I'm not enough comparison that's all stuff of the ego

and through some very simple perspective shifts and exercises you can just step away from it a little bit just kind of step outside of your body and witness it and go

oh look there's my ego doing its thing oh bless you ego you're trying to protect me you're trying to take care of me I love you but I'm not you wow

I sounded wise all the sudden He really did sound wise. I was, I was enamored. I was enamored. You know, I have a thing where some therapist once told me when you have anxiety, it's like you're in the driver's seat. And you could say, hey, fucker, you could be back there, but I'm driving. Like, I know you're there, but don't let it take you over.

You're still in control. And I try to, I also try to stop myself when something's happening. We're like, why stop it? What is the wrong right now? What can happen to you? Can you die? No, you can't die. I actually say this out loud.

Have you done this before? Yes. Have you been a success? Yes. Why are you going in? I talk to myself. Is that weird? Do you ever do that?

I don't think that's weird at all. I think whatever works. I mean, for me, maybe your therapist's suggestion is good. Different things work for different people. For me, it's just recognition. Like, if I just kind of take a deep breath, Ray, you're really anxious. Look at you.

Oh, you're worrying about this and you're worrying about that and you're worrying about that. Oh, wow. Wow, check that out. Okay. Then I immediately feel better. I just, I didn't change anything. I just noticed that I was anxious. It's like noticing the ego.

Acknowledging it. Acknowledging it. Just seeing it. No judgment. I'm not going to fix it. I'm not going to push it down. I'm not going to like get over it or get through it. I'm just, I'm just witnessing it.

And then we're all of a sudden, we're just more whole. Like, oh, I see, you know, you know, it's like we're not our thoughts, you know, I don't know. Eckhart Tolle, I guess for a second book besides the Damapata, the Buddha, anything by Akirtoli, you know, the power of now or a new earth, especially his audiobooks. I love hearing his weird Austrian gremlin accent. Is it like a word of Herzog kind of feel to it? It's a little bit Werner Herzog. He's more extreme. But, but yeah, Eckartole is like, that is only now, why are you here?

I'm doing it terrible but anyway you trust me the audio books are great I listen to them all the time and sometimes I'll just I have them on my phone and I'll if I'm feeling anxious I'll just like just I don't care what chapter just hit Eckertoli talking to me and I'm just like oh

and that's what you do in your car a lot of times you'll listen to these in your car instead of music instead of thinking you just yeah yeah yes when I when I in high stress that's so there's another tool there's another tool Eckhart Tolly audiobooks a great tool but his whole

thing is like we're not our thoughts we're not our feelings right we have thoughts we have feelings that's not who we are because we are able to rise above those and go oh look I'm having thoughts oh look I'm having feelings so whatever that is that consciousness that's that's a higher consciousness that's kind of a higher part of ourselves that's able to just lovingly detach just a little bit and float away from all of that it seems like it's just really acknowledging it like okay you're stressed right now why are you stressed oh because you got this okay it's just kind of acknowledging it like this is why you're stressed instead of freaking out and not really taking a second to wonder why or understand why yeah and accept and accept it like oh okay all right yeah

you're stressed if you're going to get this job or not like well of course you are it's okay you want the job and you'd like to make the money from the job and you'd like the work from the job and okay that's good so you're stressed about it right i love you do you say that you say i love you buddy I don't but maybe I should you know one time my therapist actually said I want you to I want you to wake up what happens when you wake up and I go well I have anxiety what do you do I lie there well why do you lie there well I'm hoping it will go away does it no so what do you do you do you I want you to get the fuck up I want you to get a drink of water and she also said this was a while ago she I want you to look in the mirror I want you to tell yourself you love you love yourself

yeah affirmations that was boy that was hard because i was actually i remember the first time i was actually trying to be cool about it like i'm the only one in the fucking room and i'm like love you dude you know i'm like come on bc yeah hey dude love you finger guns you're fucking you're awesome i was like you know and it's it's very hard that's one thing i'm learning how to do is just like kind of accept myself love myself for all my faults and that is the hardest, I think. When I was first getting therapy, my therapist did the same thing. He gave me a sheet of affirmations. And there were all these like, I love you, you're very good at this, blah, blah, blah. Anyways, the first one on the list was, I am enough. And at the time in my life,

when I started saying that, I would almost cry, just saying those three words, like looking in the mirror and going, I am enough. It was so hard because I would immediately just be like, no, you're not, you fucking idiot. You're not, you know. Exactly. So that's where I would jump to. So to just kind of be like, I am enough. Like even now, like saying it, it feels weird.

And I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm not. I need to do more in order to be enough. I need to. Right, right. Yeah. Jesus. Reading, playing, learning.

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New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. All right, this is a good segue into metaphysical milkshake. Okay. Because I watched an episode and, you know, talk to me about it. Talk to me briefly how it got started with you and Reza Aslan and how these two minds came to be. and to make this show and a show that you both wanted to make

because I think it's very important it's ultimately it's like what is our life? Why are we here? What's the purpose? Like all answering all these questions and you can't really answer all of them by I guess the best of your ability

but why did you do this? So I started about 11 or 12 years ago a media company called SoulPancake that was a digital media company. It existed mostly, most people know as a very successful YouTube channel with three or four million subscribers. We had shows like Kid President, My Last Days, The Science of Happiness, lots of that were viral videos that people posted all over Facebook and whatnot.

So my first iteration of that was called metaphysical milkshake. That's what I originally wanted to call it, because I've just always been interested in the metaphysical questions about being a human being and being alive. Why are we here? what happens when we die what is what is our purpose but beyond that like what is time and uh you know do we have free will and you know so many metaphysical questions that intersect with psychology spirituality philosophy creativity on a lot of different fronts sociology and so soul pancake went in

its direction it did its thing i had a show on soul pancake for a short amount of time called metaphysical milkshake where i interviewed people in your bus in the back of my van yeah in the back of your van which i want to talk about the is that was fun because i always liked the name and then i knew resa aslund's work and we had bumped into each other at a couple events and we were having breakfast actually not far from here uh in the hollywood hills and um you know we were just talking about life and and we're like god this our conversation should just be a podcast and him and i really have the similar um interests in terms of the topics that we want to discuss and that started the process of us you know starting this podcast um life's big questions

what it means to be a human being you know because i i feel like our our country is so divided people are at each other's throats there's so much there's this mental health epidemic with young people going on that is uh really uh it's tragic it's horrible the anxiety depression suicidal ideation You read the statistics around kids. You know, it used to be the statistic that always has blown my mind the most is since they, since they started doing any kind of studies at all about psychology, the loneliest generation was always senior citizens because a lot of, they're in old folks' homes and whatnot or they're put out to pasture or they're living alone or whatever. That was always the loneliest generation. This shifted about eight years ago. the loneliest generation became high school and college kids, the loneliest generation.

Guess what? That's synced up with smartphones and Instagram and social media. There's other factors, but those are two really big ones. It's a disconnect. It is a disconnect. They're not, they are feeling seemingly connected because you have Instagram. Oh, look. Someone liked me.

I have 287 Instagram friends. It's like, they're not your friends. how many of them are really your friends four three you know zero yeah so anywho we just felt like these discussions are really important like we're trying not to make them academic we try and like make them accessible to everyone um but there's something that red state folks blue state folks everyone in between has something in common yeah it's a it's like it's the human experience it's what we were dealing with, you know, as with our shamans as cavemen and what we're dealing with in ancient Greece and, you know, through the Renaissance and then college campuses, it stoned out of

your mind at 2 a.m., like these kind of discussions, they can unite us, they can bring us together. And I hear, like, when I listen, you know, you have people call in and ask questions and like, what's the purpose of life and, you know, what happened before the Big Bang theory, which I think you let Reza take the initiative on that one. That's a tough question because I always think about that. I'm like, well, before the Big Bank there, well, who created God? Well, then if we keep going, no one created anybody, but there has to be something that created something. But if there was no time, if the Big Bang created time, then there was no time before the Big Bank.

So there was no before the Big Bank. Right, that's what you're saying. You can't measure, you know, years or like. What's the one question that you always are asked and you don't really truly. had the answer for um boy that's a good question what is the question asked lot i don't really have answer for um um well you know an old an oldy but goody is um uh what uh you know is there a god you know and prove there's a god or that whole discussion you know which frankly is a boring discussion to me and you're never going to change any mind anyone's mind by kind of

making a series of salient points about whether there is a god or isn't a god like it it works on a deeper level but that that's one of the tough ones to always engage with i mean i have my answer i i'm very secure in that but that that's a biggie you know you look it up on youtube there's you know those those debates it's endless are and have them millions and millions of views people are very interested in those they're usually have their minds made up so they're going in like yeah atheism or yay atheism team theist team atheist yeah you said something about it was something interesting on one of the episodes where i mean not that you don't say anything interesting in other episodes but you said something about you know people say well if there's a god why is all this

evil and this death and all these things and i think your response was well i don't know but what if we just all live in a utopia where nobody stubbed their toe and everyone was perfect and everyone was like isn't that just as bad in a way yeah and it just made it was just really smart the way you uh you interpret it articulated yeah and that's and that's that that is it there's an interesting thing where there's this common argument among atheists like well if there is a god why is there so much suffering in the world and that's an ancient question it's like well so what would that look like so does that mean that if there's an all loving God that then there is a world in which there is no pain because there's not a world where

anyone gets cancer, there's not a world. Is there death in that world? Or if there is death, it's always peaceful and it's in your sleep, but you can't break your arm? Because isn't pain, difficulty, anguish, challenges, tests? Isn't that really the meat of being alive? Isn't that what being alive is kind of all about? Yeah. Speaking of the Damapata, the Buddha says life is suffering. This is one of the four noble truths that, you know, life is, is suffering. So maybe we suffer for a reason we suffer to grow. It's like when you work out, when you're doing bench presses, not that I would know anything about that, but when, you know, you're tearing the muscle fibers to build muscle, right?

When you break your bone, it heals itself by making more bone material. It's broken. It becomes stronger than it ever was. So, you know, there's a lot of analogies that lead in that direction. You interviewed Larry King in the van. Yeah, in the van, yeah. And I love this. It was just like, I mean, I think you even smacked him on the ass.

You knew him well. I just met him that day. No, you didn't. Yeah, I did. You met him that day. And I spanked him on the ass. He seemed like he was your best friend. Well, I think I had done, it was like a given,

take thing. I went and did Larry King's show. Right. And then he came in the van and I did an interview. Well, you asked him these questions and I thought, I kind of want to hear Rain answer these questions that he asked Larry King. Define happiness in 10 words or less.

I'm on the spot right now. This is it. I mean, you asked Larry King that. Okay. Happiness and 10 words or less. Connection, nature, art, community. You're counting, right? Oh my God. This is good, though. You've already four. Those are big ones. I mean...

Smoothies? Smoothies are probably somewhere there. Yeah, somewhere in there. Somewhere in that way. There's a few more. By the way, those are things I wouldn't have thought it like that. If you would ask me, I would have thought you wanted me to put a sentence together. Happiness is when we... I know, but I was trying to be... But that was a better way of doing it. Yes. Because those are important things.

What drains your soul? What recharges it? What drains my soul is looking at my phone. What recharges my phone? Hey! Hell! What recharges my phone is my charger by my bed. Well, actually, I don't have it by my bed.

I'm moving in the hallway because they don't want my phone by my fucking bed. You know what I mean? Do you honestly keep your phone outside? I do. I do. I keep my phone outside of my room. I bought a fucking alarm clock because I don't want to be reliant.

So there's a tool. Reduce anxiety. I don't want to wake up and just look at my phone. I wake up in the bling, bling, bling, bling, the emails and the, oh, shit, right, I forgot to write that person back. Oh, God, I got her calling him. Right.

That sucks. So what recharges it is really nature and connection. I really think it's all about, I use that word connection, but I think that the answer is always in connection. You know, whatever the question is, the answer is in connection. And that can be with your spouse or partner, you know, that can be with your, with your family or with friends or a group, but we thrive in community with one another.

And I think we wallow in solitude. Can you relate? I can relate. I think I can relate easily. What's the biggest question you wrestle with? I guess my biggest question I wrestle with is like am I am I doing the right thing now am I spending am I putting my my my energy in the right direction am I am I doing the right thing what is there something else I should be doing something like that I feel like that too

I always feel like what is it that I'm supposed to be doing I wish somebody could just tell me like I almost wish I was just good at one thing not to brag and say I'm great at a lot of things. But if I was just good at one thing, then I'd have no choice. I'd have to do that. Purpose, I don't even, I wrestle with that all the time. I was like, what's your purpose? You know, try to be a good person, try to give back, try to help those that are in need,

try to, but do something that makes you feel good altruistically. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I don't, I still am unsure of my purpose. Maybe my purpose, I'm already living my purpose, doing this podcast, helping people, maybe that's part of my purpose. I don't know. There's got to be something bigger. What's yours? Do you feel like you have purpose? Well, yeah. I mean, I think this is where, I think where this is where God comes into. And I think the main issue with God is that how people define God. So if you define God as like a daddy man, male figure who's powerful kind of gazing down on us and it's like, Ryan was good today.

Michael was bad today, that kind of God I'm not talking about. But if you're talking about like the creative power of the cosmos that is within us and without us and flows through everything and gives a kind of greater purpose and our souls are connected to that, so our bodies will drop away, but we'll continue into some other plane of existence onwards toward this all-powerful, you know, cosmic energy. So if when I feel good is when I feel aligned with that energy, whatever that is. It's obviously it's hard to describe, but it's more of a feeling than anything else. But I liken it like to a sailboat where like you want to get over to Catalina, but the wind's blowing that way.

So you have to kind of attack. But but you kind of like, if you feel the wind in your sails, then maybe you're headed in the right direction. And that's, it's a, it's a, it's a, an ineffable thing, the wind and the cosmic wind in your sails. So I try and be in that. Like, does this feel like I'm being taken in some kind of right direction, you know? So one of the things I'm doing right now is I'm writing a book on spirituality, which is obviously a passion of mine, and which is a weird thing for a comedic character actor from a sitcom to be writing a book on spirituality might be the first time ever.

but it feels right it feels like oh this is a good thing this is something i should be doing now this is that's great uh so that does feel good my wife and i have a non-profit in haiti called lidae that educates girls in rural haiti when i do the work on that i you know i whore myself out as dwight like i do these in fact there's a thing on prizio dot com right now where i'm going to give an office tour through the san fernando valley of like our locations oh yeah so on instagram right yeah I just posted it today. It just launched. And then I take all that money

and then I give it over to these programs that are educating girls who can't read, you know, essentially. And that gives your purpose. That feels good. It just feels good. It's like I'm never going to be like, if I do something like cameo or something like that, I'll take that.

I'll do those annoying videos, but I'm going to send the money off to the, so those are some things. But career-wise, as an actor, I don't know. you know do you love it as much as you used to i don't i know that's what happened to me i feel like uh you know i'm i'm gonna do this movie and maybe do this but i there's something about it that just doesn't interest me as much anymore like i'm saying yeah what what are you doing do you really love it i totally who are you doing it for i totally are you doing it for money and because people

think you're really good at it is that the reason you're doing it yeah i i don't know i'm kind of lost in that sense i don't know exactly what you know what i want how are you feel about that. Yeah, I 100% relate. You know, the way I put it is like, as soon as I discovered acting at like 16, which, by the way, and I think we talked about this the last time I was on the show, I could be wrong, but I vaguely have a memory of it. I did it for the girls. Of course. So I moved to a new high school. They had a great acting program, and I auditioned and got in this acting class. And then I did this acting exercise, and I made everyone laugh. And I was the new kid in the school. and these cute girls came up

and like, oh my God, you were so funny and that, where are you from? You're from Seattle? Oh, well, you sit at our lunch table, you know, and hang out with us? And, oh, are you going to audition for the play? And I was just like, uh, you know, just, okay. You did it for the women.

There was no art. There was no, like, I must express myself. I'm in the ancient tradition of the shamanic storytellers. No, it was like, oh, my God, this girls, I was, before that, I was on the chest. team I was I was so nerdy and in the orchestra and like all of a sudden these doors open so that started me on my journey but from 16 when I started and then into college and doing plays then grad school for acting and doing theater in New York and then coming to L.A. and then doing wallowing away for a few years

and getting on the office et cetera blah like I just lived and breathed acting anything like I want to act I want to play characters. I want to get cast. I got to move my career forward. I really want, I'm hungry to just be acting. Sometimes it'll pay. Sometimes it won't. It doesn't matter.

I just, I need to be acting. Then it got caught up a little more with ego, like, well, I should be getting this movie, and why are not getting this opportunity? And I should be doing X, Y, and Z, and why am I not? But I feel the same as you, though. Something in the last three, four years, I've just like, yeah, I like acting. You know, I just went and did this project. It was fun, you know, and it was great.

and the people were great. But it was like, and then it was done. I was like, okay, you know, I mean, I'll keep doing it. It pays good and it's fun and it's nice to be around, you know, smart, funny people and being on the set can be really fun. But I don't really have a desire to be on a TV show for years and being on the set, you know, 12, 14 hours a day for years. You know, I don't, fortunately, I don't have to do that.

But yeah, it's a shift. It is a shift. What do you think? It scares me. So where do you think that's going to take you? Obviously, you're a successful podcaster now. Podcaster, and, you know, I'm writing a lot. So, you know, I have some projects we're pitching and things, you know, I like to write.

And it's not to say that I don't want to act. It just like it just feels like something was lost. I used to have that drive that you talk about. I used to have that drive where I just always wanted to be the center of attention. I always wanted to be on set. I always wanted to kill it, crush it, the producers to be. so happy and my agents to be making money and everybody that just be and I'm like yeah yeah yeah and then I'm like well you're still a miserable fuck what's happening there what's going on there

you really enjoy and it's not to say I didn't have any fun I just I don't I'm trying to figure that out and by trying to figure it out I'm going to do it again and I'm going to continue and see how I feel and really see if there's still something there because there isn't some people just love to be on set all day and just love to do it over and over and over and over again and I something was lost I just feel like wow we have to do a six hour scene now we have to do this same scene for six hours it just is not appealing as as look I'm blessed I'm I thank God I was on I did some work and I made some money and things would be different if I if I hadn't I'd be still doing whatever I could but now that I have that choice at least for

now there's part of me that's just uncertain about where that future lies with with with Yeah. Like I said, I'm going to do it. I'm going to do a movie here coming up. But like you said, it's not that. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Feeling. Totally. All right. Metaphysical milkshake. Where could they find that, by the way? Anywhere you get podcasts. Anywhere you get podcasts. Yeah. We're trying to put out an episode a week, which is hard. But it's really great. It really is it. You know, I have a short attention span. And just hearing these guys talk about life and hearing people's questions and just talking about all the things. things that we think about is just so, so interesting, so interesting. And I think you guys are really going to love it. Metaphysical. You're very kind. Thanks. We just did, we just dropped an episode with Jason Isbell, the singer-songwriter. Do you know him? Yep. And it was about what is music and just kind of like trying to really sum up like where does music come from. Like what what makes music music like that that trying to get to that spark of creativity. Why are, why do humans have music? why don't we just live without music?

Like what evolutionary purpose did music in our lives serve? Do you know what I mean? Like if you're a BF Skinner behaviorist, like music makes zero sense. It doesn't keep the species alive, doesn't propagate the species. I guess you could say,

well, some birds sing because it's a mating dance. So like, it creates joy. Frank Sinatra. But what does that have to do with propagating the species? Joy and pleasure. Have you ever made love

during the Bee Gees? Like live? It's up to you. It's up to you. I have not made love to the Beegees. Maybe I need to get on that. Nobody gets too much heaven or more. It's much higher to go by.

I'm waiting and lying. I always felt self-conscious making love with any music on. Really? because it always feels like, I just feel weirdly self-conscious. Like, whether it's like I would have friends who would like get baked and have sex to like Pink Floyd,

dark side of the moon. But then there's always the buried up to Wizard of Oz too and sync it up at the same time. Oh, wow. Is that? Yeah, they do that. Pink Floyd,

if you stick it up to the Wizard of Oz, it fits really strangely. So that might be fun. Yeah, trying that with you. Whitey. Yeah. She's like, who the fuck are you? Yeah.

But I, yeah, do you do you do that? I would sometimes listen to Massey Star while having sex. Yeah, okay. If I was dating someone, you know, but anything more ambiguous or where you can't decipher the lyrics. Right. If I could hear, I'm all out of love. I'm going to, I just, I can't get hard.

My dick soft is the can be. That's just the way it's going to be. My dick is so soft. I can't make in love. What am I with that? This is Rain Wilson. What year were, was that People magazine? 50's top bachelors.

Yeah, that was a... When were you one of the top 50 bachelors? Like a long time ago, probably 2005. Wow. Yeah, 15, 16 years ago. Yeah, not anymore. This is called shit talking with Rain Wilson. This is rapid fire or wrap it up.

Yeah, I can't believe this has already been over an hour. It's been over an hour. Well, Ryan, I'm happy to stay longer if you need me. No, this is amazing. But Ryan, you've been taking so many notes. What the hell are you writing down here? I just write it down just sort of, keep track of like the things that we talked about

and if there's anything that the editor needs to know then I have it there. Oh, so this isn't like personal. No, this, no. Rain's a piece of shit. I don't believe anything he's saying right now. This is like for editing purposes. This is for editing purposes.

Yeah, and it's also if like there's something like, oh, this is really interesting. Boom, we're going to put that in a clip when we put it on. Right. Also, I don't want to look idle. Do you still do those animation things? I don't, but wasn't yours great.

Yeah, I loved that. We should do another one. Maybe I'll do another one with you. Okay, great. I love those animation. things. I had this animator out of like Norway or something that would do these animations and they did one of rain. You paid just

a small amount of money. It wasn't incredibly expensive but you know I was just like but you know what I want to do those again I think that's a really good idea. Can you make a note? Can you? You're welcome. You've got a pad of paper. Write it down right there. Can you write that down? That's what this is for. Rain Wilson shit talking, rapid fire from my lovely patrons. I love you out there. Thanks for joining

Patreon and giving the podcast a little more. Raj, favorite movie or show you watched over the past year. We've been re-watching the Sopranos, and I've never seen it. I can't tell you how much delight that show gives me. It just gives me the tingles. It is one of the greatest comedies ever made. I'm not kidding. Okay. The sense of humor, the wry sense of humor that runs throughout that show is sensational. I have to watch it. What am I doing? What are you doing with you? I wish I could put myself in your body and not ever have seen the Sopranos and watch it for the first time. It is so good.

Okay. You know what we're going to do? You and I are going to start watching it. Okay. And like I'll go, hey, I'm on episode three. Go, oh, I'm going to catch up and we can talk about it. At least I'll have somebody to watch it with. Okay. I'm in. All right. I've never seen it either. And you're watching it. So I'll see. Oh my God. Green. Oh, my God. It's so good. The performances are crazy. Leanne P. What is something people would be surprised to learn about you? Um, I'm a pretty good tennis player. We've been talking about playing tennis. Yeah. Um, but I don't think people would know that. And they'd be like, oh, there's a portly middle age gentleman. It's like, oh, you can play tennis. He can swing a racket. I love it. Betsy D. Did you enjoy interviewing Billy Elish? Yeah, I totally did. That was so cool. It was like, oh, look, it's the most famous person in the world. And she's a huge office fan. Isn't that awesome? Yeah. And it was so cool because we interviewed her in her childhood. home and she was still living there in a bedroom about this size she's like the most famous

person in the world she was living in a bedroom this size and her parents little bungalow in Pasadena. Jesus. Are you jealous of Jenna Fisher's office show and do you wish you would have done it? That wasn't a question. I just asked that. Did you just make that up and pretend to read that off the piece of paper? I'm not a jealous. I wish them the very best. I've guessed on the show a lot and put in my input about the episodes. I love Jenna and Angela so much. They are just the dearest, sweetest, kindest people in the world. Funny, just amazing, supportive.

Wish them all the luck in the world. But that would be torture for me. I'll have show up each week and go over the old TV show that I did. It would be a lot of work. And that's a lot of work. Emily asks, who's been your favorite actor to work with so far in your career? The one that you can name. The one that comes to mind.

I get one? Well, I got to go with Steve Carell, right? I mean... Wow. Yeah. Love him. I love Steve. Yeah.

Steve's difficult to get to know. I wouldn't say that we're like intimate buds, but we text and he's a very sweet guy. But what a privilege and an honor to have done 160 episodes with him, to improvise, to watch him work. I mean, he's one of the greatest actors in the... He's one of the great greats. You're one of the greats. Well. You're one of the grades?

I'm like a B plus. Steve is like A-A-a-minus. You know, he's on the next level. Alice and Janney, I was doing this thing on mom, a recurring part where I got to work, where I was played her therapist, actually. She's like Steve. She's like on this next-level actor.

She's like, very few that are on this first other. Yeah. Wow. Joey Mack, what was it like working with Rob Zombie and your single takeaway from that experience? Yeah, House of 1,000 Corpses. That was my first. kind of lead in a movie I got, we shot that in like 2000. It was awesome. Takeaway from that

experience was hard. What is the takeaway from that experience? I loved that experience. I mean, Rob is an awesome dude. He's going to be doing the Munsters reboot. That would be really cool. I'm definitely lining up to watch that. I'm watching that show. Yeah, yeah. I didn't even look at my notes barely this whole time, except for those questions. um you did very good you're very good at this i was nervous interviewing you why would you're just incredibly smart i'm not as smart as you now the people are going to get mad because you're like stop saying you're not smart i'm just saying rain's a very bright guy he's well read i'm not but i like to listen to you and you have a lot of insight and uh i don't think that i'm smarter than you

i think we're too very in fact i don't think that people are really not smart I think that, you know, we just, we all have a balance of, you know, it's like a D&D character. You know, you've got strength and charisma and dexterity and, you know, roll the dice. Did you have played D&D? Yeah, sure. So I think everyone, but it all kind of adds up to around the same level. Like, I think that humans are the same way. So we have the, you know, we have emotional intelligence and street smarts and stuff like that.

I think we're, but. What do you think about Ryan? He takes a lot of notes. I don't know. My mind's not made up about Ryan now. I can't quite figure him out. There's not a lot of info. Bobby Lee said he looked like an eagle.

Oh, because, yeah, the side angle. The side angle said you look like an eagle. Yeah, I get that. Could you see an eagle? Like a dark eagle. The dark eagle. That would be a good screen name for you. Dark eagle?

Dark eagle. Code name is Dark Eagle. It's my secret agent name. Yeah, I like that. This has been a real treat. I really appreciate you allow me to be inside of you again. I hope you'll come back maybe a couple years later. I love your podcast. Metaphysical milkshake, guys, please check it out. I think you're going to

really enjoy it. It's worth watching and listening. You can watch or listen. Either way. I love being inside of you. Thanks for being inside of me. And maybe we'll do this again in another two or three years. Can we play tennis? Let's promise play tennis in the next year. I really liked it. I have texted you a few times. It hasn't worked out. Do I have your number? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's happened. Are you saying that I didn't text you back? No, you did, but you're like, How about Thursday at 8.30 a.m.? I'm like, no, I can't do Thursday at 8.30 a.m. Rosenbaum here.

Hey, Rain. Are you texting me right now on the air? Yep, there you go. Okay. I love you. Thank you. Okay. Thanks for having me.

Bye. Well, you'll learn a lot. You can learn a lot from a rain. You sure can. Yeah. I really enjoyed the podcast. Hey, guys, if you really enjoyed the podcast today, if you're a big Rain Wilson fan, you never listen to the podcast.

Please subscribe. Give us a shot. I think you'll, you'll dig it. There's a lot of great episodes in the can. There's a lot of episodes coming up. And, you know, Jason Alexander's was a real success. That was really great. Anthony Michael Hall was a success.

So, you know, go back, listen to episodes. And thank you to all our sponsors. And if you're interested, hopefully you guys like the sponsors and you could, you know, use the codes that we give you and supports the podcast. Thank you for listening. Uh, the handles are again, if you want to follow us at inside of you podcast on the Instagram and the Facebook and at inside of you pod. Uh, if you want to get any merch, go to, um, inside of you online store. We've got Lex Luthor stuff, smallville stuff, inside of you stuff, new merch coming out. So always be checking on that. And, uh, the band, my band Sunspin,

go to sunspin.com. You can get shirts and mugs and other stuff. We also have lunchboxes there too. But, uh, do you have a good week, Ryan? Yeah, man. Uh, it's fine. Gere enough for Thanksgiving. Gear enough for Thanksgiving. Where are you going? Going to, uh, my parents' house in northern California. Are you excited? I am excited. I like going there. Does Amanda like your parents? She does like my parents. She does. Yeah. Do you like your parents? I love my parents. That's cruelly. That's really nice. Yeah. You get along with them. They were good parents. They showed you love and affection. They did. They did. What's that like? It's nice, man. Man, that sounds groovy, bro. And it's so nice, man.

It's so groovy. No, it's just, it's nice. And, I mean, what's kind of nice is that they are not in, like, my childhood home, so which would have been in the valley in Los Angeles. But they moved up somewhere else. And so it's kind of like a vacation. It's a little vacation. How many hours away?

Seven hour drive. What's the address? No. I actually don't know. I'd love to meet your family. I just know where it is. You could tell you, you're just a really genuine good guy. I like you.

You're just a really humble person. I'm very humble. Go on. Well, you are. Go on. I'd love to meet the parents, the two that are sort of responsible for who you are today. Oh, yeah. Well, if they're around.

Or do you want to come to Thanksgiving? Well, I'm having a Thanksgiving dinner at my house. But I would love to meet them sometimes. So make that happen. We'll make it happen. We'll make it happen. Thank you to all my patrons, my lovable patrons. I just did a YouTube live with just my patrons.

That's part of the perks of being a patron. You can go to patreon.com slash inside of you. support the podcast in other ways there's there's merch there's uh i send boxes to folks every few months um we do youtube lives uh discount on merch uh but more importantly the patrons really give back and i'm able to do this podcast they just they give to the podcast whether it's a dollar a month or five dollars a month and some are incredible and give a lot more i really appreciate it And I want to thank you all of you for that. Again, I'll be at the L.A. Comic-Con December 4th and 5th with Tom Welling doing a Smallville Nights on December 4th.

I hope you join us. We have a lot of fun. And why don't we read off the top patrons? These are the people who gave a lot of a lot of coinage to the podcast to keep this freaking thing going. Thanks for the coinage. Thanks for the coinage. Here we go. Nancy D. Leah S.

Trisha F. Sarah V. Little Lisa, Y. Eukiko, Jill E. Brian H. Mama, Lauren, G. Nico P. Jerry W. Robert B. Jason W. Kristen K. Amelia O. Allison L. Raj C. Joshua D. Emily. Emily F. S. C.J.P. Samantha. M. Jennifer Ann. Stacey. L. J. Jemma. F. Jinnel B. Kimberley E. Mike E. L. Don Supremo. 99 more. Ramira. Santiago M. Sarah F. Chad W. Leanne P. Janine R. Maya P. Madie S. He's guys are just, every one of you is just amazing. Belinda N. Chris H. Dave H. Spider-Man. Chase. Sheila. G. Brad. Brad. D. Ray. Charles. Ray Charles. Yes. Ray H. Hi, Ray. Tabitha T. L. L. L. L. L. H., Michelle S., hello. Tali M. Betsy D. Hi, Betsy. Claire M. Laura L. Chad, L. Rochelle, Nathan E. Marion. Meg K. Janelle P. Trav L. Dan N. Big Stevie W.

Angel M. Rian and C. Corey K. Super Sam Coleman G. Dev Nexon. Michelle A. Liz I. Jeremy C. Andy T. Cody R. Sebastian K. Gavinator. David C. A few more here. And thanks to all these people as well. John B. Brandy D. Yvore. Camille S. Bono or Boehno or Bano. The C. The C. Joey M. Willie F. Christina E. Adelaide. N. Jeffrey M. Omar I. Lina N. Design O.T. G. Eugene and Leah. Or are you. Gene and Lee. Huh. Like a comedy. It's L-E-A-H. I think it's Leah. Eugene and Leah. Yeah, it's Leah.

Chris P. Nikki G. Corey, K-T-B, Patricia, Maria N. Maria N. I love all of you. I can't thank you enough for supporting this podcast and keeping it going. I never thought I'd be doing 180-something podcasts. I thought I would quit after three and no one's going to listen.

I stuck with it. You stuck with me. and I appreciate it more than you possibly know from myself Michael Rosenbaum here in the Hollywood Hills of California along with Ryan Tears in the Hollywood Hills in the Hollywood Hills That's right

A little way to the camera We love you Thank you so much for making me a part of your day And giving me the time and listening And supporting the podcast Thank you for allowing me to be in each inside Thank you for allowing to be inside of each and every one of you

week, be good to yourself, and much love. Ryan, anything? That's it. That's it. That's all we got. Thanks, guys. Football season is here. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros.

One of the most interesting quarterback rooms to college. Michigan is set at eight and a half wins. To fantasy. If you feel that way, why didn't you trade them? Become a better fan and listen to the football podcasts from Believe. Just search Believe. That's B-L-E-A-V podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.