Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - The Shape of Water’s DOUG JONES: A Kind Creature

Episode Date: July 26, 2022

Doug Jones (Star Trek Discovery, The Shape of Water) joins us this week to share his accidental introduction to the world of creature features and how he’s cemented his legacy as one of its most iconic actors with captivating performances in Pan’s Labyrinth, Hellboy, Hocus Pocus, and Oscar best picture winning The Shape of Water. Appearing in countless films together, Doug talks about his special relationship with mastermind Guillermo del Toro and how the two have a unique shorthand way of communicating with one another. We also talk about his early success in McDonald’s commercials, difficult lessons learned from his father’s early passing, and why his contract doesn’t allow for him to be dubbed over. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever you are, whenever you are listening to this podcast. I just want to say thanks for listening. Thanks for tuning in each week and supporting the podcast. Really means a lot.

I know there's so many podcasts out there. And if you're new here, and if you're here for Doug Jones, who's a brilliant actor and a great guest, which you're going to love, hopefully you'll stick around and listen to other guests and subscribe. Um, you could follow us, uh, where can they follow us, Ryan? At inside of you pod on Twitter and at inside of you podcast on Instagram and Facebook. There you go. It's right. It's right there. It's very easy.

And you can watch us on YouTube. You can watch the videos, like them. And what's really important is if you write a review, that really means a lot, helps so much. Uh, quickly, I want to just mention a, uh, a rescue that I'm part of. It's called the animal rescue mission. Um, they rescue rehab and find forever homes for abused and neglected animals. And my good friend Shear runs that and she's a beautiful soul and they really help a lot of animals. Go to www.

Theanimalrescue mission.org to donate. That would be nice of you. Also, if you want to join Patreon, Patreon, Patreon support the podcast in many ways. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you. And I'll send you a message after you join. And there's lots of tiers and there's a top tier where I send packages to you and the YouTube with me live where you ask me questions and there's just it's a bunch of fun go to patreon.com slash inside of you also if you want any cool merch go to the inside of you online store tons of

smallville stuff tons of inside of you stuff go to the inside of you online store uh that's always rocking we got a lot of new stuff uh i'll be in raleigh this weekend i'm doing a smallville nights with tom welling and signing autographs so get there it's for galaxy con um this coming weekend and i'll be in boston august 12th weekend with tom doing a small nights and all that stuff and signing autographs uh today's guest is uh i just loved having him on ryan he was um you know so open about his upbringing his life acting working with prosthetics working in huge movies huge movies and how he doesn't get um what's the word claustrophobic and in some of those you know like um what's the movie shape of water shape of water and i'm like

how do you do that i can't i try to do a mask on me once like a mold of my head and i freaked out i freaked out is it there no it's not that one but it was another one this is one that ryan was looking at it's a that's a helmet but this was a mold of my head and uh by the way it's crazy uh we'll get right into doug jones after this but i i i was having some anxiety bad anxiety and i got on these meds they were they did not work it tells you that look not all meds are going to work for anxiety it my anxiety was through the roof after this it negative thoughts i felt horrible i couldn't be around people i had to get off them it was terrible so just know that if you know your psychiatrist or whatever gets you on meds not all of them work so it's a trial and error it's sort of like you know

you test one and if you have major problems you call your guy right away and say look i'm not feeling well and boy uh my friends we had a 50th gathering for my birthday at Bucca to Beppo and they hooked it up in the back room and on the way there I got there and I thought I was going to pass out and I almost just walked away and the whole night was horrible. I told everybody I was having horrible anxiety and I played it off but but I was miserable. I was certainly miserable and just to let you know that was a side effect and it happens and I'm doing much better now. But it was rough, Ryan.

I'm sorry for interrupting that with my phone, but... That's okay. I just kept going. Oh, God, you're okay. Yeah, I text you, and I told you how shitty I was feeling. It was, it was overwhelming to the point where I'm like, I can't do this podcast anymore. I can't do, I can't do this. I can't, I just want to move.

I want to get away from it all. I can't be around anything. I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, buddy. Rewind. And then there's better help. BetterHelp.com. Great segue. You know?

We can get into that later. But look, let's do this right now. I just wanted to let you know how I was feeling and I let you know what's going on with me and the podcast and Animal Rescue Mission and all that stuff. I hope you bared with me. And let's just get into it.

Thanks for all the support. Let's get inside of Doug Jones. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. First of all, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. What a treat.

We've met a couple times at conventions and things like that. And I was always like, this guy's extraordinary. No, no. Yeah, I always felt like you were an extraordinary individual. You have an extraordinary career because it probably didn't go the way you thought it would go. It went in a very different way. But you said you were nervous to be on my shirt. that's weird i'm always nervous to interview guests are you really oh yeah i always do i'm just like i don't know

how it's gonna go you see you appear so comfortable uh your show does a deep dive that uh that is terrifying really yes well we you know it's it i think inadvertent is the word i i don't i don't try to get like inside i mean i do well that's the name of the show i do it's a very intimate title by the way but my it is right i know you know it's funny is i have these sweatshirts and uh that my producer made And he didn't put with Michael Rosenbaum, it just says inside of you. Right. So at a Starbucks,

people are like, what the fuck? Should I put that on your cup? Yeah. So, I mean, look, the point is to have a real conversation. People don't want to hear conversations with actors about like, you know, all the fluff. Or going down the IMB-B-led.

Oh, you were in John Dijit Dan. What was that like? Worst interview ever. But we, but I talk about that. It's like, you know, I go to Wiki. I go to all these things.

But like, really, it's about your journey. And it's about who you are. And that's all it is. I mean, it's like, I've had guests that don't talk very much. We've had guests that talk a lot, which is great. Great. Are you a talker? More than I should be, yeah.

Because when I get started on the story, it's like, you know, that's a train that's hard to stop. So I'm sorry. Careful what you open up here. No, no, I like that. How many credits would you see have? Because I know I recently saw you in what we do in the shadows. That was the most recent, which, because I know you're in Star Trek Discovery. You know, you've done Hellboy and, I mean, there's the shape of water.

mimic and hocus pocus and I mean the list goes on pan's labyrinth and you've done so many things that I mean it's you have a you have an illustrious career well and I thank you but I wouldn't say it's because I'm good it's because I'm old and I've had time to rack him up that's it that's it that's it I beg to differ my friend I mean I've heard I think what you have done is much harder than your typical actor Well, harder. I don't know. You know, it's hard and difficult is all, those are relative terms, really, aren't they? I guess so. Any actor that takes on a character is going to take, it has their difficulties in finding that character and making them come through their being, whatever it is. So whether it's a guy in a t-shirt and jeans with heavy emotional trauma, that's what you're playing, or whether it's a creature in rubber bits from head to toe and you're crawling on all fours, that's the guy that's difficulties, different types. It just seems like when you're doing a, we'll get into this, but like, it seems like when you're doing a creature,

or you know some character in a movie and you have prosthetics on you have all these things on it feels like and especially if you don't speak a lot it you have to it's your body that expresses all these things your your emotions and things and things have to come out and it just seems like that's harder you know if you have lines you could say some lines and people go oh that's sad that his brother died right right but when you have to moat all this shit right I mean doesn't that don't you have to work harder, do you think? Yeah, sure. Well, you have to work different, maybe not harder.

I believe that dialogue comes in visuals and verbal, right? Right. And we all speak it every day, but we're not so aware of the visuals that we're giving. So when you are playing a creature that has no written verbal dialogue lines, you have tons of dialogue that is visual to get a point across, to get an emotion across, You got a relationship across. The Shape of Water is probably the most near and dear to me as far as the nonverbal characters that I've played. Right.

The amphibian man in that didn't speak a word. He was an animal from the wild. And he's falling in love with a mute woman. So she didn't speak either. So the two of us had to find a completely on-screen language with each other that the audience would buy. Right. Yeah. So I've had tons of dialogue over the years, whether it's spoken or shown.

Right. But, you know, we'll get into this again, shape. of water, but I know that the director, I always mess his name up, Guillermo del Toro, Guillermo de Toro, who I love. I've heard everything over there, I know. You must, what's it like working with Guilera? What's up with Guermo

D'Otero? But he said something to you in the shape of water before you started filming. Yes. I saw an interview with you. And he said something to you, which sounds pretty frightening, but it's like, what did he say to you? Doggy, you would be the romantic leading man. of this movie.

Is that the way you're talking about? Yep, exactly. And right, and I'm thinking, like, you just told me about this being a fish person. So that's going to be, there's a tall order, right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah, but then the next breath, I thought to myself,

Guillermo del Toro is the one director who can pull this off. Right. As far as, like, writing it and guiding me through it. And he sure did. But didn't he say something like, you're playing an animal, but you have to be, we have to love you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I have to, have to, the audience has to,

has to buy that this woman is falling in love with me. So I have to have a romance to me. I have to have a sexy look. The look of the amphibian man went through a year of tweaks and changes and color changes and shape changes. The ass and the lips were the two areas on the fish man that were the most retooled over the over the really? They wanted you to have a nice ass. Oh gosh. Yeah. And I'll tell you what. I knew that they pulled that off. It was glued on to me by the way. It wasn't my ass. I had to give it back every day, but, but, but I knew, I knew the ass was working when we're all sitting on our set chairs, you know, between shot setups and I stand up to walk away and Octavia Spencer says, mm, I, that's, that's when I knew that we pulled it off. Really? Yeah, yeah, yeah,

how many times did you have to? Sorry, I'm sorry, I know, right? Ooh, yeah. Damn, right, right, right. Amphibious. She's given several interviews since then, addressing that. Yeah, oh, yeah. How long did you film that movie by the way we were doing about three months i think three months but you how many times did you have to get in that costume to test it out the prosthetics beforehand beforehand oh yeah uh any of the roles i've done in heavy prosthetics you do several fittings ahead of time like you know maybe like you start doing that months beforehand so i i lost count you know and it might be one piece at a time like we need to come in but this neck piece isn't working can you come in and we have to fit this one bit on uh so the full body head to head to toe test it comes later closer to the product

And there is the Academy Museum that's the that opened up in the last year has a big display of the amphibian man from it's a full size it is my actual suit one of my actual suits from the movie that has been now reconstructed onto a dummy right not this dummy the different dummy and it's in a glass case in the museum with a picture and a plaque down there that describes what you're looking at with a photo of me in one of my early fittings and it was kind of me without the head on kind of doing a little opposed to to test out how the the arms and legs move. The fittings were so particular and so precise that they, because anywhere, any direction you move or bend, there shouldn't be a wrinkle that says, it's a rubber suit. Right. So that's what they have to like tweak and fine tune.

And so getting it on is like it takes three grown adults to go, you know, 30 minutes to get that. Jeez ass. Yeah, to get the suit on. And then you have glued on parts too. So like the difference between a suit and the makeup is a suit you slip on zip. up the back and makeup you either glue or paint on the skin. Right. So that was a combination of both.

See, this, I feel like such a, what's the right turn to use? Is, I can't say pussy. No. Can't say that anymore? I can't say that. Wussie. Use the Wussie. How about it? Yeah. I have a wussy. Yeah, yeah. That's what I can say that. Well, here I'm suggesting that you call yourself a way. That's terrible. I wouldn't say that. Well, I would. I feel like that because, you know, I, like, I had to shave my head for seven years and it was too. And that gets tires? And two and a half hours in the makeup trailer and every day and, you know, they had to put a lot of makeup on me. And then I just turned down a roll because I didn't want to wear a prosthetic for, because I just, I, I'm claustrophobic. I'm all these things. Sure.

But I feel like such a wuss because do you even get scared? Do you get claustrophobic? No. Nothing. You've never been claustrophobic in a costume. All right. But that's, but you can't control winter when it doesn't happen. You know, winter. I did a movie called The Time Machine. It was a remake of the 1961. H.G. Wells. Yes. And it was directed by Simon Wells, who was H.G.'s, like, grandson, I think. We had a legacy, you know, on set with us. It was great. But I played one of the, one of the underground dweller, what were we called? The, help me. No. Think about it. The Morlocks. Morlocks. I was one of the Morlocks. Morlocks. Yes.

Like Ryan would know what the fuck that is. I know. I'm tapping. Ryan, what is it? Help me. More locks. Morlocks. We got it. I know.

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Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Anyway, why did I see, this is what's happening now. Because you were warned that we were talking about, is it ever an instance that you got claustrophobic? You said comes and goes. Okay. Okay. So there were a ton of Morlocks in the movie. I was the only actor. The rest of them were all stuntmen. And so, and a lot of these, you know, there were two types of Morlocks, the skinny ones that were shooting darts at the Eloy people.

And then the big, big Hunter Morlocks that came up and would grab them once they were spiked in the neck, they would grab them and take them back down underground. Well, the big hunter Morlocks were these, I mean, the stunt guys who had, you know, dived out of four-story buildings that are on fire. They've crashed cars over cliffs. And now it put this thing on them. And every so often, like during the early days, they were kind of like testing these guys. And they had me come in to kind of like, because I was the only one who had done this for, you know, decades before.

And they were like, you know, can you just kind of help guide everybody? Because there's some first timers here. And to see a big guy, like, freak out and go like, get this off me, get this off me. Really? Just can't control. You can't control when it's going to happen. And how do you calm him down? Well, it doesn't make you a wussy.

it doesn't make you a wussy it doesn't okay thank you not no it really doesn't because uh because there's all kinds of psychological backstory that leads you to that moment where you're having a freak up because there's something around your face you and you you don't have time to delve into that let's got to have a therapy session before we do this movie you don't have time so you know so some of the guys were like you know this has been great but i'm out of here you know really they quit oh yeah cannot do it yeah you've seen people get up and leave that particular production just because there were so many. But otherwise, they, you can, uh, you, you, you, you vet your, your, your candidates ahead of time before you bring them in. You know, you'll find guys who have,

who, who are, or ladies who have worn rubber bits before and are used to it and comfortable with it. They tried putting it. They had to put a rubber mold over my head, a full face mold. Yeah. You've done many of these. Like a life cast when they're, yeah, doing your impression of you. Uh huh. And, you know, it's like painting that blue stuff on you. and then it gets hard it hardens and then they plaster over that and about eight minutes and I go yeah not through your mouth guys guys um how long how long do we have left we have about 10 more minutes of this and then we have to do this and I go I don't think I could do this I don't think I could do it and they go just try to breathe try to breathe and they got me through it and I was just like I'm getting nervous like even talking

about it just talking about it what is that do you think there's some psychological thing connected like you said maybe to that maybe something some trauma I had that I can't be in a or or it could be also a fear of death uh because um you know when you think of being buried after you're dead your body going under and if you're not okay with like where your soul will go after you're dead maybe that's a terrifying thought you know and so here you are being encased like a mummified really right in that moment and you have to trust the people working on you will take it off that's what I've learned is that you have to trust it's coming off at the end of the day or it's coming off in a few 20 minutes when this life cast is done.

I also find that it helps if someone just touches my hand every so often, it reminds me that they're there, right? Even when I'm in a dentist chair, right, getting worked on, like, you know, the pain and anguish of having things drilled and filled and ripped out and replaced or whatever they do, the older I get, my teeth are rotting out of my head. So I've been in a lot.

I find myself, if I hold my own hands in the dental chair, I do much better, just holding my own hands, way i can i can kind of caress my my own did you ever explain to them when they're looking at you going like this or you just it helps me it just helps me so you're more fearful of the dentist chair oh yeah then you are getting hours of prosthetics on oh yeah yeah holy shit but the prosthetic process probably has helped me with my dental fears uh i yeah you know because i i i avoided the dental chair for a long time it's always that moment where i'm like dentist is fine this is fine and then all of a sudden that nerve you hit a nerve and it's just like oh

Exactly. Exactly. Right? It's just the worst. And then you're, then you're a, yeah, I know what you mean. Let's go back because I love that you're, you're from Indiana. The originally, yeah. Do you know I'm from Indiana? Uh, no. I grew up in a small town called Newburgh near Evansville, Indiana. Oh, down south. Yeah. And you're in Evan, you're in Indianapolis. Right. Right. Yeah. And so you grew up in Indiana. What was it like growing up, little Doug Jones. What were you into? What were you getting into in Indiana? flashlight tag remember that catching fireflies catching flyers for sure in August dusk oh the summer

when the summertime came in the warm humid and the fireflies were out they were so easy to catch too poop put them in a jar in a little flashlight yeah they didn't last forever

unfortunately did they no they didn't but yeah but like yeah no I'm from that era of going outside and playing until the street lights come on you know kind of thing where you didn't have

No one, we didn't have cell phones, but I didn't know what that even was. Right. You know, you weren't looking at a screen all day. You were outside playing in the mud and, you know, and your parents let you see, I walk to school by myself. Yeah, me too. Yeah, you know.

Were you popular kid? No. Yes and no. I'm going to say, uh, I was a, a strange kid. But now what, what's the definition of strange? Again, it's all relative. Right. We all feel like we're strange.

Because everybody's like, weird is good. Right. Now it is. well back then it wasn't easy back then right in this in the 60s 70s it was not quite quite my mom says I'm special right right well it's not going to help you right now still going to kick your ass that's what's exactly yeah yeah so being a very tall skinny kid uh um I was made fun of quite a bit because kids are cruel to each other we you you pick the weak spot and you go for it and what got you what was the weak spot my long skinny neck my neck and my neck and

it was walking into a room and having people just look at me because I'm taller than everyone else. I'm skinnier than everyone else. And then was nervous about that. So my behavior became kind of awkward. And so I would make funny faces and gesture with my hands to try to get over that lump of nerves. And that made me kind of a, who is this freak? So, but thank heaven, I was able to hone that into a sense of humor that where I could control when and why they were laughing at me. Right. So I think that's where I know you'll find a lot of comedians especially have this background where they got funny to overcome something in their life. I'm included in that. But you were picked on. You were picked on. Picked on to a point. I, I was never beaten up.

Never beaten up. No. But but but verbally made fun up to the point where my self image was completely skewed. How old were you? This is this is from, this is from kindergarten through, you know, to the beginning of high school. Wow. Wow. In high school, I kind of came into myself and was a little bit more, again, that sense of humor had developed and that stage presence in the plays and the drama department. What got you into that? Finding, finding applause and reaction from an audience that I wasn't getting in my personal

life, if that makes sense. It certainly does. Any actor can agree with that, probably. You're not being accepted in this world, but maybe it will be accepted in this world. Right. Because when, in a social setting, my, again, being called an ostrich, and I didn't know what an ostrich was, I had to look it up. And when I saw a picture of an ostrich for the first time, I was, oh, that's not a compliment at all. Jesus, bastards. Yeah, no. So my long, skinny neck and getting pictures taken from the

side, you know, for profile, I had a very weak chin. What you're looking at is a chin implant. I'm going to be honest with you right now. I have a half inch chin implant that I got in 1992. And I said, I will never regret that decision to have, to have my chin in hands. It looks fantastic. I would never know. It's not big now. What was it like before? So before it was like, I had a bottom lip and an Adam's apple and not much between.

Really? Yeah. So, do you have pictures of that still? Oh, well, they're on paper. Thank heaven digital. It wasn't around then. So they're not, they're not out there in the cloud anywhere. And this was 19, you get fixed?

In 1992. 92. I had just finished Batman Returns and I took some of that. and put it into my chin. How much was it to get your chin re-done? I got a good deal. I'm going to guess 10 grand. No, no, not even close.

Dr. Akamazo was his name. I don't remember that. He was a good doctor. He was a good doctor. He was a sweetheart of a guy referred to me by a nurse friend who had worked with him and had observed his operations. And she said, oh, he's the guy you want. So I went and met with him.

I told him, like, I'm kind of on a budget. And he said, well, you know, I can piggyback you on someone who's getting a facelift right before. you. So the room was paid for, but it was just his time and the material. So I got it all done for $1,500. Well, now it would be $10,000. Now it would be $10,000. Yeah. Because it was so long ago. You're 1990 with inflation. Did you notice immediately you were happy. You were like, oh my, like how soon after. I never once regret it. Did you cry? Oh yeah. When I first, when they took the bandages came off, it was like, that's what I've been praying for. Really?

Yeah. You cried in front of the doctor. Probably a little tear. I went there. It wasn't a heave cry was more of a okay it's working thank you thank you back but but mind you uh i i i wouldn't say suggest going under the knife to make yourself feel better under every circumstance this was something that had been nagging me since i was a kid and every time i had a photo taken from a profile or my or if i was on camera from the side i would jut my jaw out to kind of compensate for my lacking chin and that that altered how I reacted, how I met the world every day with my chin jutted out artificially because I didn't want anyone to see that I had a weak chin. You would literally do that. Oh yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. Yeah. So it was affecting my, as an actor, it's like I didn't want to have that nagging me every day.

Right. So I just kind of, it's kind of like tucking your shirt in. You know, I looked at it. It's like, well, if my shirt doesn't look good out, I'll just give it a little tuck. So I kind of did that with my chin. did a little thing and that's the i've never gone back for more you know like oh i want to get everything done now like you know those people oh course once you start you can't stop right when you see those people so uh i've never never become that but but uh i love i love you know i was thinking uh i have a deviated septum in my right nostril i still have my nose strips i want nose strips overnight to breathe but eventually i want to get it fixed and the doctor's like you know you have this thing where your nose kind of like see how it kind of smushes did your nose do that

much cartilage in there? Not a lot of cartilage. Yeah, because mine's kind of firmer than that. See, mine's not firm. So he's like, well, we're doing that. I'd like to put a little piece in there, which you wouldn't even notice, it just raises it. So you notice doesn't collapse as you get older.

There's a thought. So it doesn't get, you know, because you have one of those noses that could just like, you end up going down where you're like, where it's meeting your upper lip. Yeah. And I'm like, but my friends are like, no, you're not getting a nose job. I'm like, I have a deviated septive. Yeah, everybody says that. Everyone says that.

No, but I'm serious. I have a deviated september. Well, you're not going to Michael Jackson it. You're going to, you're talking, yeah. Right. So that's okay. You're telling me, I'll be fine. I should do it.

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and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, We're here to explore the wicked and reveal the grim. We are wicked and grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Have you ever had a deviated septum? Nope.

My nose has been, it is what it is. You have a good nose. Thank you. Your brother, bless you. Are you a snorer? No, apparently not. Why do all snorers fall asleep first? You ever notice that?

Not fair, is it? It's not fair. Yeah, and Mrs. Lori will not want me. See, this is what scares me about your show. Lori snores, you just told me. I've talked about my fake chin, which I've never mentioned. mentioned in public and it's a beautiful thing right and now i'm talking about mrs lorry snoring she she's gonna hate this show uh she's gonna hate this show uh oh dear sakes yeah were your uh

were your parents very what were they like did you have very uh supportive parents were they like doug i love you i'm proud of you were they like that or they were how were they were you know you notice the tone of my voice like yeah mostly you know dad was very stressed he he passed away at age 50 i was only 18 so so it has been gone a long time so in 1979 you were 18 yeah about i was just about a month from turning 19 were you guys close uh getting closer finally you know because those those those angsty teenage years had had i was just at the kind of the end of that and i had gone away to college for my freshman year at ball state university in indiana ball state they said ball state don't get me i won't take you off your turn

thought but they i remember there wasn't there a david letterman scholarship that if you had a c you would qualify right he did a scholar right right right right right and i actually went back to ball state later uh in more recent years i i i have the doug jones endowed scholarship fund for the theater dance department wow and i wanted to do the same thing because i was not a a straight-a student and so i wanted to make it accessible to creative kids who are really talented who may not be academically on the same, you know, high, high, high. Right. So at the time, though, but their, their admission standards had gone up so much that

that wasn't possible anymore, unfortunately. So I'm not sure what, what the Letterman Scholarships didn't up here. Anyway. But, well, okay. Your father? Your father? Father. Okay.

See, I listen, right? You were 18. Your father's 50 and he passes away and, you know, you're getting closer. I was at the end of my freshman year of college. I'd been away, living in a dorm and living away from home. under the parents' thumb for, you know, that whole two semesters or whatever. And realizing like, oh, my parents aren't quite as dumb as I thought they were, right? You know how you do when you finally get away from home.

And they were just looking out for my best interest and why they really do love me. And then he dies. And it was a so I felt kind of. Unexpectedly? Oh, yeah. It was a sudden heart attack. So it was like just a phone call on my dorm room one night. Guess what?

Dad's dead. Oh, man. You'll never forget that. no gosh no harrowing at that age you'd say you know because you think at that when you're 18 everyone's going to live forever you know in your mind yeah uh it's just scared to get that call and we we all could get that call like that any minute with anybody you never know it's just so unpredictable yeah go ahead yeah yeah that's the unfortunate uh reality of the human experiences that it's it's temporary right right that yeah the fleshy part of us anyway and so uh but dad was

a self-made fellow. He was very type A personality, very high stress, high strung. The heart attack didn't surprise me once I figured it all out. You know, horrible diet in the 70s. Workaholic. Workaholic didn't know about cholesterol back then. And he was quick to temper and it was a very high strung. But, you know, he started his own business, a consulting firm. He also was in local politics as a state legislator in our state government. A lot to look up to, right? Oh gosh, he was quite a public figure locally, yeah,

for sure. And he also started a church in our living room. This is back in the charismatic movement of the 70s. So like some Pentecostal hoo-ha, we broke away from the Methodist church so for a bit more freedom. And so that's, let's just start a church in our house. And it grew to a high school auditorium

with hundreds of people. So he was a success at everything he touched, but it came at a cost. He came at a cost. So he drove himself to a heart attack at 50. Did you learn from that? Did you think these are the things I'm not going to do? I'm not going to put myself through this? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, every day I've passed 60, I wake up going, God bless. Here we go. This is a gift of another day, yeah, that dad didn't have. Right. Right. What do you do to stay healthy, to stay on top of things? because because with the business and all these things going on and the stress you could easily crumble we all can I do but so what is it you do right well I think you know it's funny I think the the the the lockdowns of the pandemic in 2020 kind of taught us all who we were you know some people became a monster some people bettered themselves it just you know some people went yeah went down a spiral and others went up uh so So I think I found myself working out more and watching my diet.

I've been watching my cholesterol all my life now since dad died. I started looking at animal fats and, you know, and whatnot's going and sugars going, oh, gee, that's nice. Do you drink sodas? No, I really don't. Don't keep it in the house. Don't really. Do you drink sodas, Ryan?

Yeah. Oh, God. Look at the ingredients. I've got to. I was just talking about this new doctor. I got a physical two days ago. Yeah. And he goes, I go, is it bad?

Like, if I just have like one soda a day, goes, oh, yeah, yeah, not good. No good. Stop soda. What, your doctor's Guillermo Totoro? He is. I don't know who he was. I was just throwing that out there. But I try.

It's hard. But I think that, you know, you know, someone like me with neck problems, back problems, it's like, you know, the more inflammation you put in your body, the more pain you're going to be in. So if you eliminate the sugar, as you eliminate the shit, you're going to feel better. So why doesn't, why don't I just fucking do it? Right, right. I think I'm in and out of doing it. Maybe take some turmeric and some cinnamon.

Do you do that? Those are all, yeah, those are all anti-inflammatories, natural ones, yeah. Really? Yeah, I think I'm allergic to turmeric. Are you? Yeah, isn't that a shame? Anything else up your sleeve there, Doug? What was the, by the way, I didn't know you were contortionist.

Should I have known that? No, no one should know that, no. What does that mean, really? I mean, because you think contortionists, you think of somebody. A circus act. Yeah, exactly. What is a contortionist? You think of someone who can, yeah.

basically, no, I am not stretched, but I can, you know, when I am, you can blow yourself. I can put my, I can put both my legs behind my head and every guy asked that question. So can you? Can you blow yourself? And if I answer yes or no, it comes with the implications. It means I tried. It means that, yes, I'm. What's wrong with you?

We've all tried. We've all tried. Have we succeeded? Not quite. Well, you're not a contortion. So you could just put your, for the most part. My legs behind my head. I'm a one trick pony.

it comes down. You know, I can also smash down. I found a way to configure myself into smaller boxes. So I did a couple commercials back in the day. I've done over a hundred commercials. I started as an actor in commercials. Yeah, back, yeah. And so I, a couple of them involved getting into, like, we're going to smash you into a box. When was a Lee easy fit jeans where I got into a glass box. And it was, you know, from standing six foot three into like a 24 by 24 box. It was kind of fascinating. to watch. Even when I looked back at it, I was like, how did I do that? Did you like doing it? Did you like doing all these things? Well, I did girls like these things? It was, you know,

I have been with Mrs. Lori since college. So, so, so, 38 years? So girl likes these things. Yeah. Yeah, we've been married for, we got married in 1984. 84. So you've been married for 16, 26, 36, 36, 38 years. April's 38 years for us. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's what old people say. She's seeing you in highs and lows. Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, we met in college when neither of us had anything. Had nothing really going on. Yeah, yeah.

So that's been a blessing for me to know I don't have to worry about. Is this person interested in me because of X, Y, or Z? Right. Because what they wanted to take advantage of me. With Mrs. Lori, I know, we grew together, you know, from the beginning. Even with the snoring. Even, especially with the snoring. And I'll tell you why.

Because the happiest sounds for me are when she's in the other room watching TV and laughing. It's like the happiest sound to me because I'm not responsible for anything right now. She's happy. She's she's giggling good. And when she's snoring, it's also like, hmm, life is good for her right now. She's, she's at rest. She's at peace. She's dreaming about something fantastic. So yeah, I take Mrs. Laurie's happiness and her future and her retirement and all these things are like, that was the thing that concerned me the most in life, in my real life. Right. Yeah. What was your first big break? Because you're doing a lot of commercials and things but what was the first thing as a you know as an actor you felt okay this is

this is this is a cool thing this is a big thing uh but it was in it was in the tv commercial world uh my first i would say i my fourth tv commercial booking was the mac tonight campaign for mcdonalds which turned into it was a regional a campaign that was four four spots running in california and then it became ooh national mcdonald's like is interested because it was doing sales figures that it was the after four p.m. crowd we were catering to it was a big crescent moonhead that sang at a panel when the clock strikes hey half six babe ho so it was a nightclub character uh and so uh it so then it went national right and then it was so successful nationally that it went worldwide in other countries so i ended up working doing 27 commercials

as mac tonight so you made a lot of money in a three year period yeah so a lot of money that's what i about my first house with, yeah. Wow. It was McDonald's. I owed them that. So even though I can't eat there now, my heart. Right. But yeah, with your cholesterol. But you have, but they have some menu items you can do. I don't want to. Yeah, I can have a salad. Why can you have a salad? You can always get a salad at McDonald's. You have some nuggets. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I don't know if that's, that's kind of the deep fried is your, is not your friend. But what was the, what was the big, the movie or the TV show, whatever it was that was. Right. Right. Well, well, the mactonai campaign is where i've started meeting and learning uh about the creature effects people

in hollywood land uh and so a lot of a lot of creature effects people from different big shops came and worked on on these different commercial shoots with us and you were interested in that no i was interested in being a goofy sidekick on a sitcom that's why i came to hollywood land i wanted to put my tall skinny ostrich neck to work right new chin right and my new tune uh and so i did not realized that this, you know, creature effects, rubber bits on actors was really a career option. Right. I didn't seek it out.

But once I had, you know, after my first agent had, you know, submitted me for all these roles that were physical tomfoolery and, you know, contorting or my experience needed because they need a movement, blah, blah, blah, blah. Those roles often came with a look that was glued on to you, right? So that's how I started meeting creature affects people. and then that reputation and they would go spread my name around their own community

and then come I would get phone calls at home sidestepping agents and casting directors hey Doug we're at the shop we're working on this alien character would you want to come in for a quick fitting to see if this is going to be good for you so I would and then once it was a good fit then every all the business people

would get involved and it would become a booking so so my career kind of so people like you people like you Doug Jones well no I don't want to boast I just saw you in Arkansas at a convention and the first thing that we just have a big hug and a kiss and just friendly and you're just that guy you're that guy and it sounds to me like you've always been that

guy and that's why how your career started by being a good guy easy to work with and being talented at the same time i suppose that's all it's all very important uh being good at what you do is it was one thing uh being nice while you're doing it is quite another you know and not every not every actor gets that unfortunately you were never an asshole never an asshole phase well you know you would have to ask other people i i don't think so? I don't think so. Did you? We'll get into it because I do want to ask you some questions because you're very honest. You're very open. So what was the first kind of big gig that you remember? Okay. So outside

of TV commercials, when you're a young actor, when you get a booking and you're like, oh, gosh, I'm going to do this movie. You think, this is my big break before you know how it's going to do. All the time. And we all. And then you learn. Right. Then you think like, this is going to be huge. I'm going to be the first name on the marquee. But, you know, my first movie. movie movie that I remember really being like notable to mention was was a night angel it was a horror film night yeah night angel it played in uh it played in theaters for a week and then that's you in theaters went to the VHS right oh it was back in 1989 I think it was my one or made night maybe it may it might have come out in now did you play a creature in this no I was a guy I was just

an actor I was the guy I was the guy I was not in any I played the character that I came to Hollywood to be, which was the goofy sidekick at a high fashion magazine. I was like, well, like an office helper guy. Right. Wearing a baseball cap with my curly hair. And that's before my chin. By the way, this is 1980 nothing. And, and I was just like the goofy guy that like, you know, hey, I'm best friend of the handsome lead man of the movie. And when the devil lady comes to take his soul, she kind of uses me to get to him. And so I, yeah, anyway, I thought, oh, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm killing it. This is going to be great.

Well, the movie court, you know, again, after a week in the theater, nobody even heard of Night Angel. Right, right. So that's when I realized, oh, this is going to be a longer road than I thought. So really, I did, I kind of worked consistently for many years from 19, gosh, 80, can I start in 86, I'm going to say. Yeah, 86 is when I started booking my first commercials. And then I got my, you know, a guest, a guest role here.

here or there on a TV show being sitcom this one hour drama that but no real lulls no real down like months and months or a year without work no no I've had I've had a month or two of lull going am I ever going to work again every actor goes through that am I ever going to work again as a phrase we've all said many times but but but overall looking back hindsight is everything it's like no you know I've consistently it's been pretty consistent over the years uh so um really At least my SAG pension plan says so. Right. But other than that, where were we?

Well, the transition, I guess, because this was your first big acting role. And then it went in the theaters and then went to, so how did you trans, what's the word? How did you transition into, did somebody see you and go, oh, he'd be great as this creature or he'd be great as the, how did that start? Right. that would have been like i said from the commercial world um then monster a or b in movie this or that uh so i think man gosh what was it called uh dark tower was a movie with michael landon no michael well you guess what jennie agitur was the star he's going to look it up jenny agitur was the lead actress in it and uh her husband in the movie died fell into a cement while it was wet

building while a skyscraper was going up and his soul came out and haunted her when the building was near completion because she pushed him into the cement years before it all comes out in the story the director no the the lead that the actor that I that I Michael Moriarty. I was going to say that Michael I played the dead version of him His ghostly figure that came to haunt Ginny Agator for killing me. Right. And so that was my first movie, movie that I was, that was, I think, what was it called? Dark Tower came before Night Angel, actually.

And did you have to wear prosthetics for this? I did. Because I was like, you know, a haggard, ghostly sunken version of Michael Moriarty, basically. Do you want to see it? There's a picture. Oh, is there really? Let me see that. That's me.

How did you find that? Good gosh. The Webernet is amazing, right? Yeah. Now, how was that, that was, that looks like, that was probably your first real big prosthetic piece, right? For a movie. For a movie.

I had done them for commercials before that, yeah. So. But had that feel going into that. Did you feel, how many hours did that take? Oh, it just takes out. It always takes hours. And, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just, because you, you, you know.

What do you do during that time? Read. No, no, you can't, you can't. You listen to music? Music, yes. Tell stories with your makeup artists. They become your best friends. They always do.

You're with them all day. Always too. It's like being in a barber's chair or being at your bartender, right? Yeah. It's so true. They're your therapist. The therapist. Yeah, they are.

So there's all that. I might even, if it's, if I'm in a chair and they're just working on my front side, I can maybe doze off, maybe if they tilt me back a little bit. You like dozing on? Oh, I do. Especially with, you know, if you have a 3 a.m. call time for a long makeup job. And yeah, you'll, I do many jobs sleep deprived. So that's part of the deal.

And makeups can be anywhere from two hours, like on Star Trek Discovery, they've got these pre-made, pre-painted prosthetic pieces that get glued on to me and blended in. Saru? Saru. Saru. Accent on the ooh.

Suru. And so it's two hours in that? That's actually not as bad. The human characters on Star Trek are in as much time in the makeup and hair trailers as I am. So it's not so bad. But then if you're doing it, the toe creature like like abe sapien from the first hellboy movie uh they got it it was seven hours a day

they got it down to five hours a day for hellboy two the golden army so down to five hours a day is it a daunting thing to go to bed at night and know i have to wake up and be seven hours in makeup oh yeah yeah yeah yeah do you get anxiety the word tell me about that yeah no i wouldn't say anxiety but i do i i have spent a lot of my career dreading going to work you know just because it's like oh i got to go through this even though even if it's a project i love and i and that's the end if the end result is a product will be proud of then i can go through the hell that it takes to make it because i did come up with a catchphrase a few years ago i'm very proud of it's called and it it is uh let's hear it pain is temporary film is forever so that has been my life no matter how

you're feeling this is going to be forever so give your best okay that's that's yeah so that's that's where i've been wow yeah you have to think though all those hours in the makeup trailer, you get a little upset, a little unnerved, a little irritable, a little bit. Seriously? No, no, no. You're just a different specimen.

A different kind of human. Well, I don't get antsy. I'm not somebody who, when I'm sitting still, I don't have to fill that space with doing something. You know how many people are like, what do we think we should do? I'm like, I'm fine just sitting here. I am a boring human being.

Really? I can stare at a wall and drool and be completely content. So that makes that translates into the makeup trailer really really well. Do you have any issues with certain prosthetics, certain things that you wore that give you that you developed a neck problem or a or a foot problem or whatever kind of problem? No, no, I never, uh, nothing. No, I mean like, yeah, I mean, they're, especially the more, the more mechanical type, if you're wearing a big head that has, um, you know, uh, motors and things in it that are, that are, that are

servos and things batteries and motors and things that are operating a puppeteered face that's more of a more of still part of a suit slips on you they buckle it in

or they velcro it or they glue it down but it's not really a makeup when you're in something like that that can be heavy and can push on places and you come out away with red marks yeah but

what's the heaviest thing you've ever worn? The heaviest amphibian? No, no, no, no. The Adventures of Galgamef. It was a movie that ended up on the Disney Channel back in the mid-90s. I filmed it in 1995. And I played a kind of a god, a kind and gentle, helpful Godzilla-like character. It's kind of a lizard guy who grew

from like three feet tall all the way to 50 feet tall throughout the movie. So I was, I, a little person named Felix Silla. He was, um, Felix Silla was, um, Felix Silla was, cousin it is that the that the hairy thing in adam's family the tv series way back in the day oh wow um and he he passed away recently bless his soul uh he uh he was he was little galgy so he did galgamith from from spoon size all the way up to three something feet tall and then when he grew to six feet something that's when i took over the roll and all the way to 50 feet so uh that's that was heavy that suit was 100 pounds i weigh 135 pounds. So, so when you're adding 100 pounds to a skinny guy like me, that was, that was just

hellacious to get through. How long could you, and you had to walk around with 100 pounds on you? Well, walk around, emote, act, you know, be intimidating, be swiping the things. How much time did they have before you're like, I can't do this? Yeah, we, we would, we would, yeah, the head came off often, you know, during throughout the day. And it could. It wasn't glued on to me. So that was another suit, not makeup. Right. And so that would, be yeah that would be the most hellatious thing have you worked with directors who just you could tell aren't they have they're not respecting you oh yeah i mean like you're just like they're just bossing you around and telling you what to do and like move over we could see this make sure you do

this i don't yeah like where you like fuck you but duck jones wouldn't say that i would and that's why i'm not uh anyway but you've had those moments any actor has you know working with the director is like is like dating you know you you you find the right the right click that fits and you're like oh that's really giamo de turro is that click right that fit when you have a you know that symbiotic relationship that this is working you know we understand each other there's a shorthand we don't have to say many words is that what that was working with gialmo oh yeah yeah he uh he gives he'll give me notes ahead of time before we start filming months weeks ahead and and and then he he really is he respects an actor he wants he wants

wants you to bring your own thing to it he he he he he cast you in a movie because of what you have to give to bring so he doesn't want to he doesn't want to spoil the suit by adding too much of his own spice to it you know uh that's a great director and so when when on went on set like for instance uh let's go back to hellboy hellboy two the golden army we're filming right there's a whole sequence that he was going to do a tracking shot around me uh that was um just he wasn't going to cut away to anything. So he had, it was just a one shot scene quickly with me doing things with props, putting a contact lens in, spritzing my gills with things. And I was a fish man in that movie. Right. So, uh, so as the, as the camera was, it was on a circular track going

around me. And he wasn't going to get any coverage on this to cut away to something else. So he had to get all of this action done in a certain amount of time. So I was, so take one. I'm going through all of the beats that we had rehearsed and he said at the end of take one he says cut doggie you're boring me to tears that's all he had to say and I knew exactly how to fix it really yeah yeah yeah because once you know each other you're boring me to tears right right in the shape of water another fishman character I played for him um he might stop me at some point go cut doggy ha a noise and I was like got it and I knew what to do the next time what does that mean Well, because we had talked about the difference between these two fishmen that I played for him.

One is very intelligent and refined gentlemanly, and the other one is an animal from the wild. Right. Big difference. So he would remind me, you're an animal. I don't want to see any guy, any human. I want to see the animal side of you. So if he saw a human reaction or gesture from me as the amphibian man in the shape of water, he would just go, doggy, just to remind me animal. right so you develop a shorthand was there ever a moment where he just was so astonished by you

and what you had done and brought to it that you you did something that nonverbally right that he was like doggy what he was so happy does he get that way does he get kind of animated and happy yeah he totally does oh when he like he's he is such a a grown-up kid i love him i knew that i met i noticed that about him the first time i met him on mimic many years of ago. Mimic. Yeah. He's a, he's a big kid.

And I think that's why he's such a great director and why audiences love him is because he, he makes things that will make the kid in him go, you get excited. Yeah. That's what he makes, he makes things that'll, he'll give himself a geek gasm. Therefore, we all get one when we watch his work. Yeah. But, um, uh, yeah, no, uh, Pan's Labyrinth. Uh, what a character that was too, terrifying.

Two, you played two characters. I played two characters, I was the Fawn and Palman and the Palman. And when I was playing The Fawn, I think it was, he came and kissed my forehead after a take. I'll never forget it because, well, there were so many notes on that one because I was playing a character that the Fawn was part man, part goat, part tree. He was like a, he was like a, you know, this fantastical, you know, fantasy character. So, and I was aging backwards. When you meet me in the movie, I'm more old. and decrepit and I get younger every time you see me right until the very end so that we were filming that first introduction scene and I was old and creepy and kind of and so for some reason that

first that first the first take and what I brought to it uh he just came over and kissed me on the forehead and said that's it that's all my those are my notes really it does not feel good so good yeah yeah well he told me he told me on pans laverment after after we filmed for the first two weeks he came over to me one uh i was sitting in this weird chair i had a tail sticking out of my butt so i kind of had to i had like a bicycle seat with a tea bar that was padded that it was very uncomfortable uh between takes on that on that particular movie uh there was no way to really recline and i had the head had mechanics built into it with these long huge horns very heavy so my little skinny neck was like oh my gosh but i'm sitting in that chair kind of like taking a

breather between shot setups and he came shuffling over to me, put his hand on my forum and said, Dougie, I know you have not heard much from me on this so far, but it's because you're getting it the right. I'm like, okay, well, I'll take that. Thank you. And I did know that. Yes, when you're not getting so much direction from him, it's him not wanting to ruin things. Now, you had a lot of roles or some roles where you would go in and learn tons of dialogue. There was one where you had to learn a ton of Spanish. What was that mimic? No, that was Pans Labyrinth. That was Pans Labyrinth. The Fawn spoke Spanish. So you, he spoke Spanish. So you learned a great deal of Spanish. All the exposition came from the Fawn. He had to explain to

little Ophelia who she was, where she came from, where she needs to go, how to save the underworld. All that came from me in Spanish in paragraph form. It was like, oh my God. And then they cut it. Well, no, they didn't. They replaced your voice. As I asked. Yeah. You asked. I would never ask have my voice replaced, but, uh, but in Spanish, why not? Uh, because I, I told him, I think you got the wrong guy for this movie because I don't, I don't speak Spanish. And purely there's a Spanish actor who can pull this off way better. No, no, no. He told me that you can count a 10 for all I care, uh, but you got to play the phone. Because he had in mind what do you need, he wrote the role with me in mind. He knew what he wanted. So, were you terrified? Oh, I've never been more

terrified of anything in my life than that particular. How long did it take you to learn all the dialogue? Months, months. Because you're learning Spanish. Spanish, right. And it was, so. Can you speak any of it now? Do you remember any of it? Any of it, none of it.

So, an fauno, Vestro a mass humild de subdito, majesty. That's the line I remember. Pretty cool. Pretty good. Sounds great. So he gave me the option to just like, you know, give the right, count to 10, like he said.

But I knew, I couldn't give him lip movement going one, two, three, four, five. six, seven, eight, nine, ten. One, two, three, four, six, six, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, and then try to dub over that with lips not matching,

and that would have been ugly. And then also, you're playing, I was playing opposite an 11-year-old actress who needed something more from me than one through ten, right? Right, you know what I'm saying? Yes, of course.

I mean, I would have been a disservice to her and to the scenes to count. Was he very grateful that you did all that? I believe, So I showed up knowing it all, so thank heaven. But I will say, as hard as it was to memorize dialogue in a language you don't speak, once you do know it, it comes out of you the same every time. Because in English, when you're memorizing English dialogue, your native tongue,

you have a vocabulary full of options, right? Right. So, you know, like this, adjectives and adverbs are where I get hung up on like when, Things will come out because I have so many options to pull from, which was it again? But in Spanish, or I also did a movie in French the same way. I played a creature version of Serge Gainsborg as his alter ego in that. In French, same thing.

Once it's in there, it's in there that one way and you have no options. So it comes out the same every time. So thank heaven for that. It just took a minute to get it in there. But you had experience. Was it surfer? Silver Surfer? Was that the one where they took out your job?

dialogue and it pissed you off it's happened twice in english out of my 36 year career i've been dubbed over in english twice and the uh the unfortunate uh misconception is that doug always gets voiced over and because it happened twice and that's yeah it's not true the rest of my career has been my voice uh and it well you also put it into a contract it's now a part of my contracts right i will not i will not be voiced over you got some clout in the industry got some respect maybe not or they might say f you dug and then i don't do the job so that's fine has that ever happen no no bank heaven thank heaven but but um i uh i uh i uh i lost my train to thought again well about uh this happens a lot this happened at my age this happens you're not even old

oh but i lose my train of thought all the time yeah but i was saying about the lines being dub it's in your contract right that's it okay dubbed over right i it happened on hellboy one uh and that was Again, I was not even a speck on the celebrity radar at that time, and this is 2003. So you couldn't really say much. Again, I've been working consistently, but I, but nobody, I did not have household name recognition at all. Right. So David Hyde Pierce did.

He was at the top of his Frazier game. It was in their final season. All right. And he also had a very distinctive sound in his voice. And so. Did it break your heart? Yes. That actually broke my heart.

But I went into that job. I went into Hellboy knowing that they had a pre-discussion with the studio and, you Guillermo del Toro, he was the direct director of that as well. He told me, when I came in to discuss Abe Sapien with him, he told me that day, they're talking about doing a celebrity voiceover, just so you know. And I said, oh, gosh, I would really rather you not do that. And he said, well, I'll campaign for you if I, but, but this is what, this is what the studio has used. And I understand, this is a marketing thing and that's above my pay grade. I don't know how, you know, whatever. So attaching a bigger name to a role for marquee status,

or poster status, great, I get, I totally understand him, but doesn't mean I like it. Yeah. And when I, when I finished the role, having delivered a voice that I was satisfied with for Abe Sapien and that Guillermo was satisfied with for Abe Sapien, and everybody else was too, I did get a phone call two weeks after I went in for my ADR voice looping session

to clean up my dialogue, which in that day went really, really well. I'm like, okay, I think this is going to stay mine. Two weeks later, I got a phone call from Guillermo saying, we were voicing it over with David Hyde Pierce. I was crushed. I'm not going to, I tear did run down my cheek on the phone with him, but,

but he, I asked him, was it a performance issue? You know, is it, is it need to be replaced? He goes, nope,

it was not. It was, you, everyone loved what you did, but David's got a name and a distinctive sound that, that like, they're, they're hoping to sell.

And is that when you sort of went home and talked to Lori and said, I'm not going to allow them to do this again. I couldn't come out and play anymore. No, it happened because Silver Surfer came after that. That came after. So that was the final. That was the straw to bring the camel. Right, because I did not have the same heads up on the Silver Surfer.

But let me back up for a second. I do want to finish up to say that David Hyde Pierce was quite a gentleman in this whole process. He came in to do his ADR voice looping session to dub over me. He heard me in his earpiece, my original sound and my cleanup that I did in my ADR session. And he said, what am I doing here? Which was very kind of him, right? And so he, he finished the job he was hired to do. And I thought he did a great job. It's great. I love him dearly. But then when the movie came out, his name is not in the credits. It's on IMDB, but it is not in the

credits of the movie. And he did no press, didn't come to the red carpet premiere at nothing. And he asked why, he said it's out of respect to Doug Jones. Do actors do this for each other? I almost just cried right now. Just almost hit me. That's like the sweetest thing ever, right? What? Yeah. I've never met him in person when I do he's getting a kiss right here yeah because I said at a respect to Doug Jones I'm not allowing myself to be credited in this movie do you love do I mean do believe that I he said it he said it's amazing no it's amazing so I I adore him man he didn't have to do that and I wouldn't I I I would have been fine had he taken the credit for what he the work that he did sure so anyway but then and Guillermo Latorre also told me on that's that same

phone call that if we do a hellboy too that I'll be using your voice for that And he did come through on that promise. That's right. I also did the voice for Abe Sapien in the two animated films that came between Hellboy 1 and 2. So, and the video game. So my voice is out there. So you're doing just fine.

Things worked out. Worked out fine. Do you consider your career to be someone similar, not dissimilar to Andy Circus in a way that such a great actor he is? And he's done a lot of these roles that people are like, wait, that's him, that's him. Yeah. And then, you know, have you ever met him?

Yeah. We finally met at San Diego Comic Con at an after party. He was talking to somebody. I was like, oh, my gosh. I went over and tapped him on the shoulder. And I said, Andy, Doug Jones. He goes, oh, threw his arms out. And we both hugged each other for about five minutes, just giggling and then parting

and looking each other and then hugging again. Yeah, it was, it was, it was lovely. And we hung out for the rest of the evening. And we just, and we agreed on something that we both, are have have similar uh a similar image in the in the movie industry but his makeup goes on after the fact the mind goes on before you know that's the only difference really right that's amazing yeah because he does a lot of like motion capture digital yeah yeah i know i know exactly performance capture right performance but the audience who may not understand what we're talking

about it right i knew you got it yeah i was just taking it in yeah i was taking it thank you this is called shit talking with Doug Jones. These are questions, rapid fire, if you like. Oh, dear sakes. From my lovely patrons, hi patrons. They support the podcast in many ways, and I love you guys. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you to support the podcast more. Keep us afloat.

Here they are. Haunted John. What was a good memory from Hocus Pocus and how is it like to work with Bet? I've been a big fan of Bet Middlers before the movie filmed. She was on a hot streak at that in the 90s there with outrageous fortune and down and out in Beverly Hills and big business and one movie after no one hit after another and her huge recording career I'm on my way to work my first day on hocus pocus and what do I hear on the radio from a distance one of her huge hits yeah I work with

her that night she was delightful and goofy and hilarious and she had those buck teeth in his winifred and no eyebrows and it's hard to keep the giggles from coming while looking at her that close. And she was so, so sweet. And then on the way home, on the car radio, I heard, uh, you are the wind beneath my wings. Like, she's huge. She's huge. Yeah. So it was lovely. And then reconnecting with her recently, I just did hocus pocus two, which is coming out on Hocus Pocus two. It's coming out on Disney. Did you just play the same character? I did. I reprised Billy, Billy Butcherson. And so the four of us immortals from the first movie are the ones that came back for hocus pocus two with a bunch of new kids 29 years later i don't know how many

sequels get made 29 years after the first time but to have all four of us back and looking almost exactly the same as we did almost 30 years ago holy sure yeah the ladies all looked fantastic uh and uh and i i looked like like seconds had passed because um uh in 29 years because I was wearing a prosthetic, you know, and you didn't get fat. I've been exactly the same weight, exactly the same build as I was 29 years ago. So it looked freakishly the same. And it was the same wig from the first movie. The wig had been sitting on, on display at someone's creature shop,

and they just took it off and put it back on me. And it's exactly the same. And the fit part didn't shrink nothing. Nothing. Everything is the same. Good God. Leanne P, of all the characters you played, which one do you identify with the most? Oh, right.

Oh, the toughie. uh uh there there are parts of me and all of them you know different parts like uh the silver surfer i loved his quiet stoic heroic thing those are things that i am not but i want to be i want to have the confidence that i don't have to flap my hands around when i talk like the silver server didn't need to he just he just spoke um but but i think that um hmm the the the the intelligent characters that are very gentlemanly i i like to identify with like abe safety and Saroo from Star Trek Discovery, very intelligent, very gentlemanly. They could also pass as a butler with their behavior.

Is Star Trek the hardest dialogue you've ever had to learn? Yes, without question. When you're doing paragraphs of science fiction dialogue with terminology that is not in common day use. And how long do you have to learn it? Oh, well, you know, when your scripts come out, you know what series television is like, sometimes it has been a couple days. Now, in more recent seasons, season one was like that. We would get rewrites at the last minute going,

what that's a paragraph i've never seen before do you learn dialogue quickly no i'm a slow learner so what do they do i mean what i mean you just learn it somehow yeah just kind of fear will drive you forward if you if you use it correctly i think i don't know i don't know wow it take but there's there's a lot of outtakes too yeah a lot of fun stuff oh yeah right where i've you know slammed a character to death mya p what's the most challenging role you've played challenging right maybe physically maybe mentally maybe both right right right well let's go back to those characters in foreign languages the fawn from pans labyrinth and and legule from gainsborg a heroic life the French movie I'm playing fantastical heavy five-hour makeup applications with

paragraphs of dialogue in a language I don't speak so that's mentally physically emotionally and then having to, you know, play an arc of emotion, you know, and character development and relationship status with someone else in the movie, whatever it is. That's a lot to take on. Yeah, so those would be the challenges. How fun was what we do in the shadows? What we do in the shadows has been... By the way, I didn't know it was you, and then I saw it and I go, whoa!

But you were terrific. I think I text your email. I was like, you are phenomenal. Did you see it? What we do in the shadows? Yeah, of course. The series. Yeah, he did an episode and it blew me away.

Actually, I've done several episodes now, between, I don't know how far you've caught up. Oh, no, I have. I only saw the one that you were in. Okay. I've, I keep look at him. Look at, look at that. Well, just keep it off for a minute, for God's sakes. We're almost done here.

So, yeah, no, season one and season three, and I just did an episode for a season before. So that'll be coming back as the Baron. Barron, Baranathanas. What a great character. He's kind of like a play on Nosfero, I think. He's kind of like old. old world he's the old world uh vampire that is coming to check on these doofous kids and that i sent to conquer the new world north america and they've never made it out of stanton island so uh so

the show is so absurd and so lovely have i have such a great time on it i would you go to work and you laugh all and everyone on the show is they let you improvise it all they encourage it yeah yeah you you'll do a scripted take or two and then they say here's the fun one and they they oh And the series regulars know what to do with that, too? They go all over the place. Did you remember saying anything just off the cuff and it was in the show? Oh, from, um, because my one big episode in season one was the Barron's Night Out where the entire episode was all about me.

Yep. And I don't remember much. I was terrified of that because it was so, I was doing Star Trek at the same time and they had to borrow me for a couple days. So I was like, I was, I don't remember. Exhaust. Don't remember about it. Yeah.

I did have. an improv moment in the in the most recent one that i just filmed that will i have yet to see if they're going to keep it but i but funny stuff i i winked at myself going doug that was pretty good yeah and they liked it people were like oh yeah yeah i got a chuckle from the crew yeah so last question what was it like uh playing one of the gentlemen in my opinion one of the best episodes of buffy the vampire slayer yes i was the lead gentleman uh in that and you keep anything from sets ever yeah uh boy i wish i'd started that a long time ago before i knew that the the secondary market that was out there to sign and sell these things yeah uh but no i uh i i've kept some prosthetic

face pieces like if when they remove it from me i'll maybe take it home in a plastic bag i have a few of those but they're not on display anywhere i'm really bad at that you should do i know i've got a pile in the corner i house i know i know it's great it's a museum i know i'm single i need I need to do this to a room. But you liked doing Buffy. It was fun. I did. It was fun.

And it was, the Hush episode has been a fan favorite over the years. That and the musical episode for the Buffy fans out there are the two that I hear the most about. So I'm really tickled pink. And to be a guest star on one episode of a show and then have it live this long after, that was 1999. And so here we are, you know, 20 some years later. And people are still talking about it.

And so that that means the world to me. it was directed that episode you know as tv episodes go every every episode is directed by someone different so that episode was was directed by joss whedon himself the creator of the show he wrote the script he directed it so we knew it was special for him to come out of the office and and put his hands into that one right and so to to take the verbal dialogue away again i i stole everyone's voice in sunnyvale for that episode and and did our dastardly deeds in the quiet and it was when we heard a human voice, that's when our heads exploded at the end of this episode. So that was daring and innovative television.

Yeah. And again, visual storytelling without verbal dialogue. It was an exercise in that too. Where do you see yourself? Like, you're 60, right? I'm 61. Oh, God. I'll be 62 in May, child.

Yeah. Do you think, do you want to retire ever? Do you think, you know, when I hit 65, I'm done, 70, I'm done? Yeah. When do you think you've had enough? Like, I just, I've had enough. or would you always be open to something if it came along? I'm always going to be open to something.

I want to Betty White this if I can. Really? Yeah. I mean, if I can be 99.9.9 and still working like she did, I would be tickled pink with that. But the rubber bits and the glue and the mechanics. That will stop. That needs to phase out at some point. I'm being far more picky with those roles now.

So you might have a couple years left of that. I think maybe. So get him while he can. Yeah. I'm going to finish out my start. Star Trek contract for however many seasons we're going. And then we will see, we'll see from there.

But I really do want to explore more human characters. Exactly. And, and, as you should. And I've played several over the years that just, you know, but those are less memorable and people don't, you know. Well, when you play a role in shape of water.

And you went to the Oscars, right? It did, yeah, yeah. It was great. Oh, what a Brummeda. Didn't it went best picture? You did. Jesus, man. Best picture with a monster on the cover is,

was unusual. And that's you. It was unusual. Yeah. See, you should have that post. up in your house i should i should you should frame in a beautiful frame and just have that that's me this is okay yeah seriously they got the wrong creature in that movie that movie doesn't win an oscar you i mean that was just your acting in that was just superb bless you thank it really is uh you're a superb human

being you as are you michael rogan i love having you here today adore you and i guess i'm not so scared after all see worked out okay this is easy okay it's ryan you should be nervous about right that mustache She is like Keith Hernandez from the Mets. That's right. Thank you. I love you. I love you more. I hope you come back.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. Bye. Thank you, Doug Jones. Wonderful interview. I loved having him on. He's so gracious.

He's so sweet. And I love his story. And very few people work as hard as Doug Jones. That's true. I'll tell you that. Yeah. That is a, it's a very specific. and very enduring talent.

Yeah, it is. Super, super. Such an actor. Test of endurance. I saw him in what we do in the shadows, the series, and I think we talked about that, and he was just genius.

I go, wait a minute. It said Doug Jones. That was Doug. He was brilliant. That's so funny. So thank you, Doug. Also, just want to throw out another mention to the animal rescue mission

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Please be good to yourself. And until next week, I'll be, I'll be waiting for you. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do.

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