Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - This Is Us’ Chris Sullivan: Pre Grieving & Gratitude

Episode Date: August 3, 2021

The loveable Chris Sullivan (This Is Us) comes on the pod this week for some life updates on the joys and challenges that fatherhood has brought him; plus he gives us some career updates with his experience and mindset coming into the homestretch of This Is Us. Sully talks about his experience shooting during the craziness of this last year and what it’s been like juggling the different personalities on the show. We also have some fun talking about his band Joseph the Spouse, we discuss the process of grieving, and of course… we talk gratitude. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. If you're watching and I tend to look shittier than normal, if you're listening and I sound shittier than normal, it's because I got COVID. Yeah, that's right, folks.

I was vaccinated and I still got COVID. But let me tell you about there's this discrepancy. There's this notion that, wait a minute, you get vaccinated, you shouldn't get, that's not how it goes. it's it cuts down the severity so if you get vaccinated and you get sick you get COVID you won't have to go to the hospital you won't have as worse of problems as you you would if you know if you weren't vaccinated so all I'm saying is that it was shit dude it was a it was a tough week um and uh yeah I got it somehow I got it and

I'm doing better. So thank you for all the messages. It is no fun. All I could tell you is please, please get vaccinated. I don't care what your theories are. I don't care what you believe. I got COVID and I'm telling you, get vaccinated. That's all I'm going to talk to you about that.

You could do what you want, all right? but it is fucking brutal great guest today mr chris sullivan very excited about chris selvin this is us gardens of the galaxy he and i did a show a year ago a podcast together and uh it's it's so great having him back and i think you're going to really enjoy it he had a baby and there's so much fun to talk about um so let's do that and uh hey i I couldn't do the stage it this last weekend because I was sick. But this coming Saturday, Rob and I will be doing a stage it. We will be doing our stage.

Just go to stage it.com. Our band Sunspin will be playing two shows, 2 p.m. 6 p.m. Pacific Standard Time. Very excited about that. Sorry we had to cancel for a week, but I had to, I just felt like shit. So stick around. Lots of talk about after the show. But why don't we just jump into it? Let's get inside of Chris Sullivan.

It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. I got a little teary-eyed when you walked in. I just forgot how much I liked you. Yeah. Seriously. Because we're pretty comfortable, isolating.

Yes. And a lot of times for me, I'm like, it's just as easy for me to be like, you know what, I'll just stay home. I'm just going to stay home. I know. And at least you have a wife and you have a kid so you have reason to do so. Reason, but also excuse. Oh. To do so.

You know what I mean? It feels like an excuse. No, but it can't. Somebody said, you know, when you have a kid, you tend to miss out on. some things that you want to do but you also have an excuse to not do all those things you don't want to do can't do it man the kid i have to stay home um people immediately understand that and you compound that with the last year's uh global pandemic did you hear about this oh i heard about that um and rachel and i would never have to leave home ever again which has been

really you know the the it's been nice and it's also it's good to get a call from you and say, hey, come visit. And to be like, absolutely, that's exactly what I want to do. So you need that. So, you know, well, the first, the first thing I want to say is we have a segment called, you know, it's a mental health checking called, how you doing? Perfect. It's perfectly titled. There's a jingle coming. Here it comes. How you doing? And it's just kind of like how are, how are you feeling at this moment? How are you feeling in the last week? I mean, you know, because I know we go through anxiety and we deal with a lot of stuff and you've got a lot of things, you know, just piling up here.

Yeah. I feel great. Really? Yeah. I'm so glad to hear that because I thought, you know, because there's so much I want to talk to you about that I, on the way over here, I had one question for you. I said, you know, it's been a year since we've seen each other. It has been almost exactly one year. That's just too much. And I feel bad about that. I feel terrible about that. What are we going to do? Well, I could, you know. This is the thing that we were, we were the world put us in that position. And that's, and that's the way it is. But my, the one thing I want to. to know from you is what you've learned in the last year what have what have you learned in the last year we don't have to get into it right now i'm just saying it into it like this is what i was wondering as i was driving i mean i bet michael has learned some incredible things in this last year i have i mean look when you're forced to be by yourself and you know with the exception of like you know another person that i would hang out with who we did an album together which kept me going it was some kind of like incentive to get out of bed some kind of but you need more than that. So I made an album and that was really exciting. It kept me busy. But like not being

able to hug people, not being able to see people for the most part. You know, and everybody dealt with this. And a lot of people dealt with death and sickness and all this. And I dealt with some death. I mean, you know, my grandfather died right before the pandemic. Then my sister passed away last fall. And then my dog just died, you know, so I've had some things. My God, man. I didn't know You know what? You know, what's weird is, you know, I don't really share it too much. I mean, I share it on the podcast a little bit, but surprisingly, I'm sort of, I was scared of how I dealt with it because I dealt with it pretty well. And I don't know if it's medication. I don't, I don't know what it is, but like, I don't know if it's, you know, my sister was sick for a long time. So I think

I was mourning her throughout the years. My grandfather had Alzheimer's for years. So I was mourning him over the years. Sure. My dog was sick for a long time. It wasn't a sudden death. Yeah. And I think that I dealt with it pretty good, but I still sometimes really want to cry and I feel like I don't cry enough like I really want to get it out and uh I did this breathing exercise this woman came over the other day and it was breathwork and I hadn't done it these things where it's like oh yeah and I'm like oh my gosh because listen we're going to do this for 18 minutes straight I go you're fuck off I cannot do this for 18 and my hands got numb and she goes this is all normal and then yeah all of a sudden I started getting emotional yeah and it was

really weird and I think it helped me so I said I want to see you again it was a friend's wife and she came over. But it's those things that I think I need to do that would sort of connect myself to the things to loss, to the things that I've dealt with. And I think because if you just bottle it up, I feel like you need some release. Grief is a very interesting topic in our, in American culture. We don't value it the same way other cultures do. We don't put an...

importance on grieving the way a lot of other cultures do and it leaves a lot of us feeling like what you're talking feeling that that that that that feeling of I've skipped a step here yeah what's going on I've missed something there's an important part of this process that I haven't that I that I haven't gone through yeah that's it and and it'll come have you dealt with a lot of death i haven't you haven't you have your mother and father yeah and my i had one grand grandparent until i was one grandparent left when i was born they they had all passed before i was born and wow and so i've only dealt with the passing of one grandparent i've dealt with a lot of death in the last year you know as far as people passing uh from covid yeah um but nothing immediate in my life

Does that scare you? Because it scares me when, you know, oh, my God, if I can't imagine losing my, you know, and I'm not incredibly close. I love my parents, but like I would go, I would go nuts if I lost any sibling or any family member. And that's like, I'm getting to the age where it's like, shit starts to happen. You hear people die in their 50s. They die in their 60s.

In a lot of my contemplative practice in my meditation or my prayer, I actually do imagine that. I spend time imagining what it will be like or what it would be like. Almost pre-grieving. pre-grieving but also front-loading my gratitude and front-loading my um my approach to the relationship with these people you know if i've spent enough time wondering what my life would be like without my mother my father my wife my my son which i have there yeah spent very little time delving into that but you know we recently learned of somebody who had lost their son and to to imagine that and to um to grieve in a way uh improves my life so much because i because i when i see this person my

heart is just when i see you you know to go a year without seeing you and then to see you you know the gratitude rushes back in i open the front door and i hear you upstairs playing the guitar and singing and i'm just like i didn't even know you were here well i the door was unlocked you're always welcome to walk in but i didn't i was playing guitar and i was just feeling it and playing and i was like and my heart just my my heart leapt for you my friend because we would get together before we did our old podcast together and we'd play music and we'd play a song i play a song and uh it's a beautiful thing yeah so that's how i'm doing i'm doing all right it's been it's been a contemplative year it's been um it has been uh a good year because rachel we started the pandemic on vacation

we were literally on vacation had to come home rachel was six months pregnant we spent the last three months of her pregnancy in quarantine we spent the first six months of of three or four months of bears life in quarantine then i went back to work on this is us and and we managed to navigate an entire season of television with with nobody getting sick in our cast or crew which was i mean statistically incredible um and so it's been it's been a real like we rachel and i've really had to turn towards each other because every time we turn around there we are like okay so what are we going to do with this time and how are we going to how are we going to push through um maybe some of the sticking points you know of our of our

relationship and it's been it's been really really fucking hard yeah and and really beneficial i'm shocked it's not that i was hoping you'd come in here and you'd say oh my but i thought you know I know Chris, and, you know, he gets anxiety. He deals with, he has this, you know, he has an anxiousness that I have, and he deals with certain demons. And then I go, we'll add into the equation a new baby boy and add in the equation, the equation, the show, This Is Us just was canceled. Well, not canceled.

It's always been, that's, well, they've been saying canceled, but it just has, it's just season six is always. So the next year's, yeah, right. The next season will be the last season. And that is where Dan Fogelman has. always wanted to end. So you always knew this show was going to end after six seasons? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I believe you. No, no, no. We've all... He says that, but as a creator,

you can only go so far because the studio might jump in and say, no, we want another season. Oh, sure. So you probably were thinking... Sure. We're going to get another season. We were hoping.

We were hoping. Maybe we were hoping. Right. Or maybe I thought it was the greatest negotiating tactic of all time on Dan's part for, you know, at season three being like, no, I only want to do six. It's a Jedi mind trick. Yeah, yeah.

No, no. Because he's told us the ending of the show. We know the ending. You know the ending. We know how the ending. Do people die? I mean, everyone dies, Michael. That's an ambiguous answer.

Well, I mean, but that's kind of the point of the show is it goes back and forth in time to show you a time before people are born and a time after people are dead. And the fact that the world continues and these relationships continue. And I know this. already shot scenes from the final episode did you cry i wasn't part of them but we the the the production has has captured scenes for the final episode did people cry people cry people cry people always cry it's this is well you cry you're not done filming no we have a whole we have a whole another season you have a whole other season to shoot yeah to shoot oh well fuck i mean then that's not that's not cancellation that's a whole season to go here no that's what i mean that's what i'm saying how many episodes

18 more to go 18 more to go do you already start thinking about your next job you know what i do yes there are there are things i'm trying to put into the lineup for a year and a half from now um but as you know that that is always a guessing game um but i do know this i've never been sentimental for the ending of things because i it doesn't it doesn't ever feel like an ending you know it doesn't like the ending of our podcast. I was like, okay, this only means that, that, that, that things are about to evolve. Right. Something will happen. Into something bigger. And we'll work together in something. And look, this podcast room is now a full blown production studio. And your podcast went to the next level. And obviously I, I, I've, I've been that way since high school. You know, the theater

production ends and all the kids gather around and they cry and they're so sad. You don't get like that. I don't. I don't. And I don't. And I don't. And I don't. know why it's not it's not i i get like that too i don't like i always want things to end my thing is i want things to end which is not a good thing right i have good things happen to me and i'm like i wish it's the whole actor thing it's like i just want a job i want a job i have a job when do i have off when do i have you know when do i have a show going to end okay we've done it and i always feel like i think it was with my a dd it's like it's like after i do a pilot episode i'm like god that was great i'm good or i know you have a whole season left right really

There's a creative side of what we do, obviously, and then there's a business side, right? And you and I are, it's hard for a lot of people to understand. Like, I am my product, right? I am what I am selling to a TV show, to a movie, to a whatever. I say to a production, here's the value I bring to your product. Right, right. And then that creative work is something that happens kind of in another section of my brain. but for this wonderful thing like this is us to happen to the cast and to the creators and to myself

in order for it to mean anything it has to end like in order for it to in order for me to take this wonderful occurrence in my life out into the world and parlay it into more creative collaboration and more creative challenge it has to end that's a very positive Ryan put the microphone to your mouth for God's sakes writing that down hold on that was good what do you think about that I think that's great I mean oh geez I really thought about it like that do you think like like you know everything has to end do you have a healthy attitude like that or do you you have the approach where you're like I don't want this to end I'll be devastated if it ends I need this to continue I mean I think having a sense of finality is

definitely preferred for me because then because I like having things done so then I can move on to the next thing so that it is not just sort of hanging there and then you sort of know, okay, that thing is done and now it's the next. I mean, it applies to like work for me. Uh, yeah, and just like, just like I need like, like, and just like even day to day activities. Like, uh, I just need the thing to be done so then I can do the next thing and the next thing. And I can't do the next thing until that first thing is done. Because it, go ahead. It is the reality of everything ends. Right. So understanding that, uh, is, is, is, is, is, only beneficial for me you know i think the most important thing is and i struggle with this is just

enjoying the time you have before it ends there's the beginning and then there's enjoyment and then there's the end and then it's it's sort of like god i was shitting on the you know i my my old therapist who i fired can you fire a therapist yeah okay i remember he stood up like he was standing up like he was taking a piss and he goes you got one foot in the past your right foot's here in the present and you're pissing on the future or no you got one foot in the past one foot in the future and you're pissing on the present and he had his you know showing you like analogically and he didn't pull his pants down that would have been appropriate and you're like that's it you're fired although for him it might have been appropriate because that was the kind of guy

that was the kind of guy when I'm sitting there and he's eating a subway sandwich and he's just devouring and he's do you mind if I eat I'm like yeah it's my hour I'm paying you a lot of money he's like oh I didn't say that I was yeah sure he's like mm-hmm mm-hmm okay yeah this is over Zoom or is? No, this was years ago. I let him go after that. I felt like, you know what? This is we're too comfortable. He's too comfortable. I'm uncomfortable. This is not comfortable. Yeah, you're, you're shitting with the bathroom door open now. Yeah. But do you enjoy the moment? Are you going on set every day and enjoying the days? I have gotten better at it. And I've gotten much better at it since Bear arrived. Bear, your son, Bear, Sullivan. My son, Bear Sullivan. What's his middle name? Maxwell.

Bear Maxwell. I was kind of lobbying for Maximus, but it was two. Bear Sullivan. Yeah. I think of like, this is, who comes to mine? And starting linebacker number 32, Bear Maxwell, the 265 foot 65, senior from, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Is he big for his age? He's 10 months old and he's wearing 18 month clothing. So he's very large for his. his age. But the, since he has arrived, all the paradigms have shifted in an instant. And it's been very difficult to, um, to realign and to ground myself in the new reality. Uh, that is everything. And that includes my work. And I haven't figured out how to express this yet. I, I keep talking to people about it, hoping that each time I talk about it, it will, uh, coalesce in my brain as a, as a coherent idea. But,

But I just don't care about anything else anymore. Really? It's Bear and then there's a big something in between and then everything else. There is my relationship with Rachel. There is my love for Bear. Really? Bear doesn't exceed Rachel? No.

I don't. That's a tough one. It is a tough one. It is a tough one. But I also, I think it's important for Bear as he grows up to see that. to see that my love for Rachel is the reason for his existence, you know, is the foundation of everything. But what I mean is, and when I say I don't care, it sounds negative.

It's just the importance of these other things in my life have fallen away. And the anxiety around showing up for a big scene is gone. And what has happened is I can just show up for the big scene. Really? It's been insane, Michael. That anxiety that we used to talk about is just not there. Because Bear is the most important thing to you, this creature, this thing that you created with Rachel. And all of a sudden, you're telling me this little child brings you so much joy and importance that everything else seems not trivial, but just not less important. See, this is the thing. I don't know how to explain. It's not that things become trivial. It's not that they're unimportant. It's not that I don't care. It's the anxiety that I used to put on them, the narcissistic anxiety that I used to put on

other things on events, on my work, on what other people think of me, it has just evaporated and melted away. Really? And for the first time in my life, I've been able to actually maybe look at my work this last season and say I think that's some of the best work I've done on this show and feel confident and comfortable talking about viewing my own work looking at it and going wow you did a good job that was good Chris that was a that was a that was a you know what I mean like I I I normally have a lot of criticism I have and it's not even negativity it's just analytical okay look at

See the way you did when the camera is on your on that side and and below your eye level, you need to be hyper focused on things that aren't really that important and are just causing you anxiety. Right. Inside of you is brought to you by quince. I love quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously.

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So when you buy a pair of super comfortable Bomba socks, you're also donating a pair. Bombas customers have powered over 150 million donations. So Bombas would like to thank you 150 million times, but we only have like 30 seconds. Go to bombus.com and use code audio for 20% off your first. purchase that's b-O-M-B-A-S dot com and use code audio at checkout but you know what's funny is this conversation right now I feel a little narcissistic because I feel like I'm now I'm thinking about me and I'm thinking subliminally are you telling me to have a child is that what you're getting at um no I mean look I mean my grandmother he says he goes Mikey you'd be such a

great gray off great father you're so good with kids And, you know, I think once you, my grandfather used to tell me, it makes me sad that he never got to see me as a dad, but, and I don't know if I'm going to be a dad, but he's like, you know, family's the most important thing in the world. Once you have a family, Mike, everything else just, it doesn't matter. Your family is the most important thing. And my grandma, you would be such a, and I think, wow. And so I've been, I went where I was in those stages where I wanted a kid.

And then I was stages where I, you know, what the fuck? I can't even take care of myself. And then I thought, you know, maybe have. Having a kid would really just, there's that, that kid becomes a center of attention. That's your main focus. And maybe that's sort of what you need, not to have a kid as a test to see, well, that didn't work. Sorry, buddy. I'm still the center of attention.

Sorry, go get yourself a beer. You know, it's not like that, but, you know, I'm starting to think if I do meet the right person, if I have the right thing, you know, maybe if that works out, because you and Rachel had a strong bond and you've been through thick and thin and I know you went through you know you went through ups and downs and kind of like it's that's a relationship and then you get it together and then you have this child and that's that's a great thing and that doesn't always happen usually it's either a lot of times it's an accident or I'm getting older I need to have a baby and that's what's the wrong person right right so I don't know I now it occurs to me that maybe

maybe it could be a good thing for me actually family it's it's it's let's put this way it is a surefire way, well, that's not even true. It was a surefire way for me to enter the second half of life. You know, the first half of life I spent building up this persona and this ego and this container. And now I've entered a section of my life where I figure out what goes in that container, what I want to fill it with, what the purposes for myself. What, what type of impact do I want to have on the on the world around me um and what type of um values do i want to instill and pass along to this new person who is going to have his own uh his own path and his own struggles and his own pain and his own anxieties um and can i can i uh die into myself

enough can i kill my ego enough to get out of the way and and help be an emotional coach or an emotional support a mentor for this new being now look yeah you're making it sound like look obviously this is fantastic but you'd be kidding yourself not to say it it can't be easy i mean so far it's pretty easy because really well he he doesn't communicate yet so That's got to be the hardest thing. I wish I knew what you wanted. What's the matter? Why are you crying?

Well, when he cries, it's very brief. Okay, you're lucky. You're one of those parents who have the first kid and they're an angel and they have a second kid and it's Damien from the omen. Of course. And he, let's put it this way. He can't speak yet, but he can, he does communicate very well. He fusses when he needs something and usually he only needs one of three things, you know, food, sleep or or a new set of close um and that's easy that that part's easy so what has been difficult is is bear requires my

constant attention when he is not sleeping even when he's sleeping which means that whatever i'm doing you know worrying about the future regretting the past running around busying myself i'm constantly being brought back to the present moment that ceases that's that's done that It doesn't cease. It like, it like fires, you know, ACDC, alternate current. It like, okay, okay, here, okay, I can focus on it. Now I'm immediately brought back to the moment. Is that frustrating?

No, well, it was at first because I would get, I would get frustrated with myself. I would get impatient. And then I just realized, aha, this moment. This is, this is all there is, is this moment. And so Bear is just here reminding me of that. Come back, come back, come back, come back to this moment, come back to now. okay yeah take care of that and then come back uh yeah you can worry for a second you're your my mind can wander for a minute but there's this child you know and and and it at first it was

frustrating and then I just realized where else where else would I where else could I go where else do I want to be then right here right you know that's been a big part of the paradigm shift is you know when when you call and you say hey come over to the house hang out let's do a podcast i have to think to myself is that two hours that i want to spend away from bear wow like so the answer was yes the answer was yes well the answer is the answer is is this going to feed feed me in a way that makes it valuable enough to be away from bear sure you know and it's healthy to you still have to do You go to work, you do this, there's still, if you thought for a second, I'm not spending enough time with my child, you wouldn't be here.

That's right. And the lesson, the lesson that we've, that I've, I learned over the, the pandemic, I don't know about you, but during the pandemic, I was busier than I'd ever been. Right. At home, you know, because everybody knew you're at home. Right. You're not going anywhere. I know you don't have anything to do.

So would you mind hosting this virtual gala for my charity? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And of course, I want to engage with the world. I want to be helpful. I want to be of service. But I was saying yes to everything. Really?

Yeah. And I realized. Because you're a good guy. Well, yes. Most. I mean, mostly. I mean, you are a good guy. You, you were.

I try to be. But what I did realize is that sometimes I was doing things that were outside of my, um, sorry. Jason. Sorry. Jason. um for he's yeah that was sorry for those people listening not watching i just elbowed jason in the face yes um you know i was i was i'd have to get rid of this shit by the way if i had a child they have all these horror movies jason forke's head i can keep the seat there we've talked about

the they're valuable lessons in horror movies yeah uh the i was committing to things that i didn't have the energy for and so by the time i was i was doing them i was already resenting them And that's not, that's not the way I should move through this world. And if I have committed to something, I need to get my head on straight and take care of my own resentments and move through it, you know, present in the moment, bringing all of the energy that I have, you know, come over here and what, lay around on the couch? You know, I'm not, I'm not, what's his name? Who? Your last guest who's just laying around. Oh, Joe McHale.

Well, I don't know if he would, I don't know if he'd be the last guest, but Joel McHale did lie around. I'm kidding. No, he's a big guy. And I asked Chris, I said, Chris, you know, feel free to lie there. And then, you know, of course, Ryan would have to sit on a stool. Yeah. And which is fine, but nobody puts baby in the corner. Nobody puts Ryan in the stool.

Yeah. Um, my ass appreciates it. Yeah. But, you know, you invite me over and, and I want to show up and be here. Right. But isn't that and isn't, isn't what you're talking about with, with, with, bare. Isn't it an analogy for life? Imagine just every situation is bare. Like if I, I organize a softball thing on Sunday, go for two hours and play softball and give softball and your friends

attention for two hours. Right. And then go off and do something else. But everything you do should have that sort of attention, your work, your love life, your... The dishes. It doesn't just be in the moment. That is the key to what we have been talking about from our last podcast that we did to this podcast to somehow just being in the moment. And that is very hard for me. I'm almost ahead of myself and I'm working on that. And what I'm saying is the only thing I have ever come across that that brings me back into the moment without fail every time is bare. See? And that didn't happen before. You didn't have that thing to bring you back. I had to work really hard. I had to work really hard.

Do you work as hard? Do you think everybody on that show? Obviously, you're going to say, yes, everybody works hard. Everybody has different work ethics when you're doing this as us. Do you see that some people are just so, like there's some people that are the method that just, you know, you don't want to be around them because they're just super focused. They need to stay in the moment the whole day. They're just, and then there are the people who are just like, anyway, oh my gosh,

Chrissy, your voice is, you know, do you, are there people on the set like that? Everybody's different. I mean, it depends on the day. You know, I have a good deal of respect for, for what's going on that day. There are certain days that are much heavier than others, you know, and I can be the same way. If I know at the end of this day, I'm going to have to have a panic attack, nervous breakdown on camera. I'm not going to be goofing around all day the way I normally would. Right.

You need to have some, you have to preserve that energy. Preserve the energy, kind of focus the mind. mind um it doesn't mean that i i need to be and i've and i've learned this because it doesn't mean i can be rude to other people it doesn't mean i can be snippy with other people and i've let those things bleed over in the past where i'm so focused on my work and somebody comes up and what i don't i yeah you get i get i get i get and that's inappropriate everyone on our on our show is very good about being present for the work that they have to do and and letting it go when it's done and being respectful to each other

yeah there are certain people who everyone works like you said everyone works very hard some people make it look a lot easier justin hartley is the most effortless fuck fuck fuck i love him you fuck he's the most effortless actor i've seen and i'm sure that the wheels are turning and i know he puts the work in and I know he has his you know routines or whatever it is but when he shows up it is it is the most effortless thing I've ever seen you know who I think is probably the most intense and he's such a great actor and this is this is a it's a good thing but I picture sterling oh yeah being very like hey I love you all but don't fuck with me he doesn't even have to say that he's just he is focused and he is a technician when it comes to emotion

Like we've talked about it. He can, he can, if the camera's on the left, all right, I'll make sure the tear comes out the left eye, you know, like. Really? He could do that. I don't know if he can do that. It certainly appears that way. It's like, it's just, it's crazy to me.

Wow. And he shows up and he, he brings the energy to the set. He is, he is amped up. He is ready to go. And the best thing about our set is that nobody has to say stuff like that. Everybody gets it. Who has it the toughest? Who do you think has the...

Mandy. Mandy has it the toughest. Why? Because Mandy has played everything from her, as herself, from 16 years old to 90. And she, so she spans every generation of this TV show. So she is on set more than anyone. And she's emotional a lot. Yeah, she's in every timeline.

She has to play most often a 65, 67. year old woman and she does an incredible job she is the most overlooked person on our show because she is so ever present i think i think her lack of nominations for awards and things boggles my mind because the word she's doing is better than anything else on on network television right now wow it's it's it's insane and and her level of emotionality is she upset by that you think she gets upset by that i think she would i Look, we all would like the recognition, emotionally, spiritually, whatever it is for the work that we do. We need that sometimes.

Well, but also like we were talking about, you know, that type of recognition ups our value for the business side of this job. So nominations and awards. Right. Because you were nominated for an Emmy. I was. Dinkledge! Dinklage! Dinklage beat him. That son of a bee.

but those those things add to your value in this industry so in order to do six years Mandy to do six seasons of some of the best acting I've seen on TV you know she wants to she wants that to roll over into other things and she'll be fine she's an incredible actor and incredible singer but um she definitely has it the hardest on her show who cries the most Chrissy Chrissy Chrissy cries the most and she's a good cryer she's very good cryer she well she she has the thing that makes her such a brilliant actor is that she has access her emotions are on call like they are right below the surface so if she needs them they're ready right and i can't say that for myself like i have like i said i i i how do you work into

to an emotional scene where you have to cry do you do you constantly think or dwell on like fuck i've got to cry i've got to cry i've got to give me glycerin i've only give me glycerin spray glycer in my eyes i've done glycerin of my eyes before i don't give a shit i've done it all the the i've only had to do it once on this is us all right um it happened uh spontaneously a second time and then the rest of the time i've kind of made the the choice not to for that not to be a path chrissey chrissey has that path uh that emotion that emotional level sterling has that emotional level we can't all be we can't all be crying you know yeah But you all are.

But you all cry. But you know what I mean? Like, like, so, so I've, yeah, I've avoided it probably, mostly for my own comfort, comfort level and ease. Yeah, it's got to be, when you see a scene where like, I got to get emotional, I got to cry, is it kind of like, fuck? Yeah, I mean. It's work. You know, it's extra work. It's going to be a long day.

It's going to be a long day. It's not fun. And how long do you shoot like a scene before you get it usually? Do they really just milk it? I mean, it's TV. It's network TV. We're moving. You know it.

You've done it. So, but you're doing three or four hours a scene, at least. Yeah. Four hours a scene. Yeah. So you're going to do a close up, a mid shot, a wide shot, their coverage. That's the other thing. Yeah.

If you have to be emotional, can you do it 15 times? And by the way, do you prefer doing the emotional scene with the camera having it on you at first just so you don't lose that? It's been, yeah. Yeah, probably. That's better because at the end, you're getting everything. And then you turn around and you'd get nothing left. Yeah.

Has that ever happened to you? Yes. Early on when I didn't quite realize the structure of television, I realized, oh, well, I gave everything I had, you know, while the camera was pointed at that person. Oh, my God, I gave everything. And then they, oh, God, Michael, what a great performance. That's, the camera's not on you. Yeah.

And then they turn around. I'm like, I don't know, guys. I don't even know the lines anymore. I don't know what I'm doing. And they're like, what happened to him? I don't know. That's happened before. I used to be the guy that they go, we've got 30 minutes left, you know, we'll just go,

we'll turn around a Rosenbaum for the last 10 minutes for his close up. And he's got all the dialogue. He'll do it. He'll be a professional. And I get so upset. I'm like, I'm stressing my ass out because you're going to turn around on me at the end of the night when we're all going home at like 11 at night or one in the morning. Yeah.

And they would turn around on me. And Tom would be like, hey, you need me? I'm like, yes. Stay here. Inside of you is brought to you. buy Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses so many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? How cool is that? Monitorers your spending and helps lower

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on September 5th. I come down here I need you in your house The Conjuring Last Rites Only on Theater September 5th Do you want to do something Funnierer, lighter? Do you want to do something like the Nick? something what is it you would like to do if you had the choice to do it after the show i'd love to

get into some some straight comedy yeah yeah it's been a long time well i got a show i'm working on oh how about that yeah i got the road just for you you're going to play the mandroid that's the character i'm in i'm ready i'm in i don't care what the rest of it is that sounds great that sounds just wonderful uh i know you're doing tons of music are you still working with Taylor Goldsmith from Dawes. Yeah, I mean, we released that record halfway through the pandemic. You know, you were in the same boat. Congratulations on birthing that, by the way.

Sounds great. Just up his spouse, though. The album's awesome. And thank you. And by the way, he's a big Dawes fan. Oh, very cool. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're incredible.

Because I said, you know, he's working with Tyler. He goes, Taylor Goldsmith. I go, yes. From Dawes, you knew. I love the way he writes. He's incredible. I really love like the, because it almost feels like punchlines in a way. but like they're just like really like he like he really sets it up and then like the final rhyme is like

oh Jesus dude yeah he he is one of the great living american singer songwriters and when I first met him um through Mandy right yeah they were just dating and it was early on in season one or two of this is us and he said I got this band called Dawes and I don't know how this band escaped me up until four years ago but I went home and I and I and I bought all their album every single album and listened to them in chronological order and would text him as i was listening to songs when something would come to me and i'd have a question i mean okay track four uh your second album and and it was that writing style that you're talking about ryan that that a bell went off for me yeah and i was like this guy listens to a lot of john prine

and I just knew it and I texted and I said I said you listen to a lot of John Prine don't you he said yeah yeah yeah how'd you know I said because of this lyric and it was one of these punch line really intelligent witty

it's like a little bit of everything is that one song where it's like he's telling three different stories right and I think the best line he'd ever written was a it's things happen that's all they ever do right that blew my fucking mind

yeah things happen that's all they ever do it's so simple isn't it and it's so witty and it's so witty and it's so so heartfelt. It's not trying that hard. And it's not trying that hard. And so one day I was writing a song and the opening verse sounded just like a John Prine song. And I texted it to him. And I played it and sang it. And I texted it to him. And I said, you want to write a John Prine

song? And he texted back the first half of the first chorus. And then I texted back the second verse and then he did uh the second half of the second verse and over two days we had written this song over text message that was 100 and you put it together probably and sent it back to him and like this is let's do this yeah and we had such a good time we wrote you know five or six more and then i had a couple that i had already written with other friends and and we put an album together and we were playing shows around los angeles you know a year and a half ago when when the world shut down And so we were going to, in the hiatus between seasons, I was planning a tour. We were going to go play shows and none of that happened.

So we finally just released the record and let people have a listen. And it, yeah, we're really happy with it. I wanted to play a Dawes song just a little bit just to with the audience here. I think we could play it anyway, right? We could play a little bit, can we? Why don't you play a Joseph the Spouse song? Yeah, why don't I do that? Hold on.

That's a better idea. Where did that name come from? So Taylor and I... Yeah, please interview him while I'm doing this. Taylor and I were trying... The song that I was just talking about is called Deaf Ears, if you're looking for songs to insert. Taylor and I had been trying to decide he had been kind of consulting me.

Obviously, I didn't have a band really. I didn't really feel like releasing the record under my own name because I felt like it, I felt like the music deserved a character, like it deserved a context outside of Chris Sullivan, the actor. I wanted people to come to it without that, without that context. And so we had decided that maybe a moniker would be appropriate. And I was sitting in an Easter Sunday Catholic Mass. I am not Catholic.

My sister-in-law is. I love going to her church. She has this incredible Irish priest in Father Doni. And they started listing saints. And it went on for a long time listing all the saints. And it was all the ones you know, St. Ignatius of Loyola, pray for us, all of these popular saints. And then they started getting into these more rare sounding saints. And one of them was Joseph the spouse.

And I didn't, one, didn't realize that Joseph of the Jesus, Mary and Joseph had been canonized as a saint. Two, I didn't realize that that he was identified for just being a spouse. And I thought, that's an incredible connotation for that character and literature. It's just a cool, it's a cool tie. It just flows. It's just a character in literature who is recognized for being a witness. to a miracle. Yeah.

And something about it struck me, and I don't know about you, Michael, but when I'm, when I'm writing a song, I don't feel, I feel like the song is coming through me. It's not coming from me. And I feel like I am witnessing a miracle, especially when I get together with other musicians and everyone starts collaborating. And this song appears out of nowhere. Yeah, it just becomes something you couldn't imagine. It is something out of nothing.

Yeah. It is sound out of silence. So Joseph the Spouse was this, was this character who was this witness to a miracle. And that's how I feel about writing these songs. And I always feel like when I write stuff, it, you know, I start mumbling things. And 80% of the words come from mumbles. And the idea is something. It's almost subconscious.

Yeah. And so, yeah, the first song, Taylor and I wrote is called Deaf Ears. Collectors always find my phone busy. Because it's been off the hook. for 15 years how much they want i cannot pay i don't have the muley anyway yeah all their calls are falling long deaf ears i mean come on it's honestly beautiful how do you not listen to that and go that's just a gorgeous song thanks man i appreciate joseph the spouse uh what's the title of the album the album is called six feet from under six feet from under you got to listen to it please go to spotify

go to iTunes go to wherever you get your music you're going to find it uh this is uh shit talking with chris sullivan right now this is these are uh rapid fire these are from my patrons go to patreon dot com slash inside of you if you want to join i'll message after nico p are there any philanthropic organizations that are near and dear to you that you can share with us yeah i work uh pretty closely with a um a mental health organization called to write love on her arms um that helps connect people with mental health services, counseling, crisis hotlines, people are struggling with depression, suicide, any of those things. So I've done a lot of work with them. And where can they go? T-W-L-O-H-A.com. I like it. Emily asks, what did it feel like to go back to the set of, to film

This Is Us? Yeah, probably. She probably means after being in quarantine for so long. I mean, it was, it was stressful. We were, we were put in these giant plexiglass boxes. And there were all of these, we had a lot of testing. We got tested three times a week, Monday Wednesday. Your anxiety was up then, probably on set. A little bit, a little bit. But I also knew that we had all of the safety precautions in place. There were masks and shields and, you know, the only people without masks were the actors.

And that was only happening, you know, between action and cut. Oh, that would give me anxiety, always having to wear a mask. I really am. I always do. But now, you know, Vax, but it's just being on set. Yeah. Where it's like, this is my work. And wearing a mask the whole day and being having going to go out with your trailer.

It was a lot. That's just, yeah, that's a lot. But we as a cast were all on the same page. So that gave us all a good deal of confidence as far as, you know, staying quarantined, staying healthy. Right. Staying because it would, it could have been a disaster. And you didn't want to be the asshole that ruins it for everybody. Seriously.

Dana, Dana asked if you had to have a theme song playing when you walked around, what would it be? Obvious child. by Paul Simon. Really? Yeah. You know the song? Yeah, I do know the song. I think mine would be,

it's a mistake from men at work. I think my dad would say that. Lee, N.P. Now that things are opening up a bit, what are you looking forward to doing mostly? I am looking forward to traveling. We have, Rachel and I have a bunch of family and close friends who we want to take bear to meet.

So we're going to be traveling, pretty soon here. I'm going to come visit Bear. Yeah, come roll around in the backyard. Oh, yeah. I'd love that, dude. I have to. Yeah. You'll look into his eyes, Michael, and you'll, you'll see what I'm talking about. Well, if you just kind of overhear me and I'm just holding him, I go, you're the most important thing ever to me. There's nothing else that's Chris was right, looking into your eyes. I know that you are the most of it. It's not having a baby. That's not your son. That's not your kid. This is the child. Maya P. How has becoming a five. changed you. You've pretty much said that. You've pretty much said that. Mary B. Rosie is blessed

to have you as a friend. What word of advice have you given him that you really wish he would take to heart? I am blessed to have you as a friend, Rosie, just so everybody's clear. Ditto. A piece of advice? I mean, what advice could I give you? We live our lives as an example of I try to live my life as an example of what I hope for the people around me. Not in specifics, not in, I hope everything happens the same way. But I, I try to deal with the difficult things head on, and I try to share them with my, share the way that I've dealt with the difficult things with my friends as encouragement, as encouragement. And you do it well.

To do the same. And encourage me to do the same. I would say ultimately, and it's just so cliche, but honestly, the one thing that I'm learning is you got to do whatever it takes to learn to love yourself. You've got to fucking do it. I have got to learn to just love myself and be the best person I could be. That's it. Just be grateful every day.

Try to be grateful. I'm trying. When I say this, this isn't me like, I'm grateful every day. And I am, this is not me saying that. that this is, I'd like to love myself more. I'd like to be more grateful. I want to do these things and I really am trying to do these things. There will always be a balance and both things will always be true.

And I have days when I really start to focus on the things that I lack. Right. And it's an awful fucking day. And a simple shift of perspective towards the things that I have and the blessings and the gratitudes that I have both things exist I lack things and I have everything I need and it all depends it all depends on which um which wolf I feed you know do I feed the the wolf of contentment or do I feed the wolf of fear and whoever I throw scraps to gets stronger and gets louder so yeah do you never just like look at bear and just you tear up yeah like

i made this almost i told i told rachel yesterday i was like this is the best he's the best thing i've ever done and i and i did almost nothing that's a line in a song right there he's the best thing i've ever done he's the best thing i've ever it's almost ambiguous like what does that mean yeah he's the best thing and and i've tried hard to create wonderful things yeah and he's the most wonderful thing that i've created well you're very important to me this has been a blessing i love i love having you here it's been too long and we've never done the video so people can watch they could listen it's good to see you i'm glad you're happy i'm glad you get a whole other season yeah here i am thinking you're canceled you're done you're like no we're filming 18 more episodes uh so that wasn't

exactly true but uh thank you for sharing all this with me i really i'm very happy for you and rachel yeah yeah that's great buddy you're special to me you're special to me well we got that that was a text message from me you know it's what it's what we it's what we talked about with chris hardware that's what i'm saying yeah so it's it's very hard to uh when you're talking to someone in person and just leave and going all right well i'm gonna go now all right well dude take care blah blah so we just have a line that just like you say it and then you could fuck off you just walk away you're special to me and then you'll you just leave and then that's it that's it Ryan you're special to me oh I leave no no no wait you leave all right thank you for allow me to be inside of you

Chris as I love you buddy felt good love you man felt great all right I love that man I love him I love him dearly sometimes you don't see people often enough and then you see them and it feels like yesterday and it was beautiful having here in the studio and talking about having a child and talking about his life and uh this is us and the last season and um it was always a joy always a real joy having him around me he's a uh a good spirit a good soul i love his to be in his presence so that's all i'll say about that like i said covid no joke uh i'm doing a little bit better um just got some lingering effects and trying to they saw a

there was a little bit of fluid in the lung in the left lung and uh but she wasn't concerned about that and uh but i was like holy shit man you know i'm pretty healthy i uh it doesn't matter covid it's unpredictable you could be perfectly healthy it could be shitty when it hits you you you don't know how it's going to hit you till it hit you so that's that's what happened to me you've heard many stories i'm one of the millions of stories you've probably heard but all I would say is just just get vaxed why would doctors why would doctors lie to you why would doctors who since the beginning of time but we only tried to help you i don't know i

feel if uh yeah i'm not going to get into it we don't need to get into it just uh get faxed get faxed be safe be healthy i don't want you to get sick help you had a great week a big shout out to my patrons i love you guys if you want to join patreon and help the podcast in any way possible patreon.com slash inside of you. And I hope you do that. I'll send you a message like I always do right after you join Patreon. We've got a lot of members. Some members get boxes sent to them from me and messages and they get to ask the guest questions and Q&A's with me and tons of other stuff. So if you if you're digging the podcast, you want to support it more, go to patreon.com slash inside of you. Also, if you want merch, you know what? Let's just

skip some merch here. Let's, let's do 15% off all merch. Why not? Wow, I never do 15% off. It's just called Rosie. We've got to come up with a good name here because I don't know if I could use that same name. Rosie is 15. How about that? R-O-S-E-Y-I-S-1-5. Rosie is 15. Rosie is 15. Rosie is 15. I'm going to write that shit down. Rosie is 15% off. Everything is. in the inside of you online store. There's journals, there's Lex Luthor pictures, there's small of a lunchboxes, there's tumblers,

there's mugs, inside of you mugs, and tons of great stuff. So make sure you go there. And if you want any Sunspin merch, go to sunspin.com, and you could book the band. You could book a Zoom with me.

You could do so many things that you want to do. All you want to do is Zoom, a zoom, a zoom, zoom, zoom in the boom, boom, boom. I have nobody over here. to laugh at my stupidity. Ryan's not here today, as you know. Let's read the top tier patrons who really give a lot to the show

and make it possible. So let's do that. Nancy D. Leah S. Trisha. Sarah V. Little Lisa, Yucico, Jill E. Brian H. Mama, G. Nico P. Jerry W. Robert B. Jason W. Apothean, Kristen K. Amelia O. Allison L. Raj C. Joshua D.

Emily S. C.J.P. Samantha M. Jennifer N. Stacey L, Carly H, Gen S, Jamal F, Janel B, Carrie B, Tabith, 272, not to be confused with, Tabitha, 273. Kimberly E. Mike E. Eldon Supremo. 99 more, Ramira, Santiago M. Sarah F. Chad, W. Lian, P. Janine R. Ray A. Maya P. Maddy S. Shannon D. Matt W. Belinda, M. Kevin V. James R. Chris H. Samantha S. Shada. Shila, G. Brad D. Ray H. Hi, H. Hi, Tab of the T. Tom N. Suzanne B. Lillian A. Michelle K. Hannah B. Michael S. Talia M. Betsy D. B. C. D. Clare. am Liz J. Laura L. Chad L. Rochelle, Nathan E. Marion E. Meg K. Janelle P. Trav. And Dan and Diane are last list right now. Here we go. And I can't bank off Ryan right now. I can't ask him, you know, what their last name is. Oh, Jedda. Ojetta. Did I say that wrong? I know it's something else, isn't it? She could yell at me later. O Jedda. Lorraine G. Veronica K. Big Stevie W.

Kendall T. Carol D. Sandy B. Angel M. Eric C. Rian C. Stephen M. Corey K. Super Sam. Emily C. Sherry S. Coleman G. Den Vexen. Dev Vexen. It's Dev Vexen. Ooh, Vixen. Dev Nexon. Michelle A. Liz L. Jeremy C. Andy T. Cody R. Chris E. Sebastian K. Gavanator. Ann H. David C. Elliott M. John B. Brandy D.

Yavor R. And Bono, or Beno. So, there it is. Thank you for listening today. I love you all very dearly. And thanks for all the get well wishes. It's been crazy, man. A little back surgery and then got COVID. Hopefully there's a light at the end of the tunnel. I hope you all have a sensational week. Make sure you come to the stage it this coming Saturday, 2 p.m. 6 p.m. 2.m. 2.m. 2 shows. You can get tickets at sunspin.com or stage it. And make sure you go to the inside of you online store for 15% off. Rosie is 15 is the code. Rosie is 15 for 15% off everything in the store. Your dynamite, thank you so much.

And all my love to everybody, see you later. From Michael Rosenbaum alone in the Hollywood Hills without Ryan Tejas. Thank you for allowing to be inside of each and every one. And I hope you have a glorious, glorious day. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast.

You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. stacking Benjamins, follow and listen on your favorite platform.