Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Tom Cavanagh

Episode Date: June 30, 2020

Tom Cavanagh (The Flash, Ed) joins me this week and opens up about the gratitude he’s developed throughout his career after experiences with hit shows as well as serieses that got yanked. Tom reveals a good deal of maturity by sharing his thoughts on self knowledge and understanding for who you are as a person. We also talk about the idea of breaking superhero acting stereotypes, a crazy story he had while on Conan, and running gags he has on set of The Flash. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Hi, wide camera. Hi, close up. What's going on? Yeah, you guys can watch this too.

Be nice if you go to YouTube and subscribe. But, you know, hey, I don't want to ask for too much. How are you? How's everybody doing? I feel like I say that a lot, but what else are you going to say? Like, all right, let me just get into it. I guess I could just get into it. You know, I was thinking I, you know, anxiety kind of creeps in.

We talk about that. The busier I am, I wrote this down in my journal today because it's just so true. Why don't I just keep, like, reading, saying this to myself. The busier you stay, the less time you have to think about the future. So the more time you have to dwell and go, oh, my gosh, what's tomorrow going to bring? You're digging a hole, man. But you don't stop digging it. That's what we do.

We just keep digging it, man. but yeah I feel like you know I definitely staying on the routine for the most part trying to work out here trying to you know walk in the dogs dealing with my Patreon it's a lot of work and you know Ryan's not here obviously cross from me but the episodes I hope you're digging I'm loving them I really am in fact there's some great ones coming up in the future so I hope you listen to those and all the other ones that you may not know the actor or singer or whatever. Andrew Santino is fantastic.

And maybe a lot of you didn't know him. If you haven't, maybe you should go back and listen because he's, it was a good guest. And before that was Mental Health Week. And we had Dr. Drew on before that. So I kind of threw out some things to maybe help you guys out there, help myself, old therapists of mine. And the response was overwhelming. So I hope you take the time, all of you.

Boy, would that be nice to just subscribe and write a review? Follow us on Instagram and Twitter. I think it's at inside of your. Podcasts or at Inside of You Pod, depending on where you're at. We had the Inside of You online store, a lot of great stuff, new shirts, sweatshirts. Patreon is amazing. I love my patrons. They're so supportive and loving, and I did a stage it last week, and Rob, dancing and

I played a bunch of covers and originals and had a blast. So be on the lookout for the next one. Be on the lookout on my Instagram or Twitter, and, you know, they're doing like group zooms with me and Tom Welling and. Kristen Kruk, and you can get a Zoom with us and things like that. So it's all part of it. I think there's a GalaxyCon is, I'm working something out. And then there's Informa that I'm working something out.

They haven't announced it, but I don't give a shit. I'm telling you right now. Fuck it. It's going to be happening soon. I think July 12th is the first one. The other patron with John Heater, Napoleon Dynamite, my good buddy, we love horror movies, as I've told you. It's called, Where Have All the Good Horror Movies gone?

And we just got shirts available, and it's so much fun. Some tiers have a Zoom with us, and we talk about movies, which ones we're going to watch. We have a rating system. It's hilarious. People are really dicking it. And I appreciate all the support. It's a lot of fun.

Also, you could write fan mail. Just know it could take a long time because it's hard for me to get to. So it could take a month, two months, a couple months down the road. I usually check it once, you know, every once in a while. And I have someone who helps me, but it's, I'm not getting much help here. But just go to hello at inside of you podcast.com. Before we get into our guest, who's unbelievable. And if you're here for Tom Kavanaugh, God bless you.

Hey, he's fantastic. Such a big heart, so much to say, so self-deprecating and sweet. And, you know, from The Flash and Ed and great guy. But before we do that, why don't we get an intro to one of his cast members on Flash? And that's Danielle Panner Baker. How are you? How are you? I'm good.

I'm well. I was thinking about you. You got a new baby. How old is the little baby now? About two months old. Is it difficult? Are you going to say it's easy, but it's not? You're going to be one of those?

I mean, there's good and bad to this. Like, you know, we had our child in the time of COVID, which is scary and, you know, not the world we thought we'd bring this baby into, but, you know, and also none of our friends or family have been able to meet the baby. So that's been challenging. But the flip side is, is my husband's home. He's working from home right now. And so he's been able to spend more time than he ever would have.

Right. I mean, it was the end of the season. in any way for the flash right kind of i finished my work on the flash ironically my last episode was season 19 or my last episode was episode 19 they were supposed to film three more episodes but they didn't finish them because production got shut down so coincidentally my last episode was also the last episode of flash season six um all right so tom cavanaugh he's on the on the show today uh i've only heard great things i've seen in articles that you said where it's like he's been through the trenches with me and he's just like he's seen me at my worst and he's just like he really is a i mean just he's so

easy to you know easy to talk to his he's an amazing guy i'm so glad you guys got the chance to talk you know in a lot of ways he's like i don't want to say he's our father figure on set but like he's our team captain i feel like everybody goes to him when they have issues and like how to what should we be doing about this he's got as i'm sure you'll see an unbelievable amount of energy and i truly don't know where it all comes from yeah i you're you usually envy those people. I'm like, how do they have so much energy? How do they do it? Do you ever wonder? Like, gosh, I wish I had that much energy. I do wonder. I ask him. He also has four kids who I'm sure keep him very busy as well. He's just really impressive. Cool. Well, you know, I just wanted to

see how you're doing. I know you had the baby. I know you've been like it's, you know, some, don't ever let your, anybody say, children of the quarantine. I saw that I was like, children of the quarantine. But, you know, it's funny. Tom was, I remember, it was probably. season one. It might have been in the pilot, but we were sitting in the cortex filming a scene, and I was asking Tom about his kids. And he looked at me and he said, do you want kids? And I sort of smiled and said someday. And here it is. You know, season six has come to be. Wow. That's kind of a blessing in a weird, dark way that you get to spend so much time with your kid now and the baby. And it's weird, right? Way more maternity leave than I ever thought I would have.

It's kind of like the whole world's on maternity leave. Everyone's got to stay home. You can't see anyone. don't do anything. So your mom hasn't held the baby. No, none of our family. Isn't that insane? That's insane. It's really. I mean, it's obviously.

And that's the sad part is that our family, you know, hasn't been able to intimately be a part of this yet. And obviously, you know, we're looking forward to the time when they can be. They will. Things will get better. They always get better. And, you know, not to be too Pollyanna, but also, thank goodness for Skype and FaceTime and all those things that have made it possible for us to communicate.

Yeah, it wouldn't have been that easy. said, hey, Danielle, could you just come over for a five minutes for this little intro? You're like, no. Well, anyway, this is great. This is it. This is it. I just wanted to.

You don't need to know anything else about Tom? Well, um, have you ever seen him flip out? He's just too nice. I've never seen Tom flip out. No, he's one of those people who you can tell he's really upset because he gets very quiet. He, you know, he's, I've seen him get frustrated and disappointed. So he was directing our 100th episode, which was incredible. and something unfortunate happened to him on that episode,

and I just, he just was really quiet. He didn't get angry at anyone. Like, he just was like, okay, and moved on. But when Tom is silent, you know, it's pretty bad. Yeah. Do you get silent, too, or do you just go, what the F? I will say this last episode that I directed, I've now directed twice on Flash.

Unbelievable. In large part, thanks to Tom. And just getting to see him the way he, you know, watching him the first time. and he was so generous with me and so supportive. And, you know, the second time I was pregnant and directing and secretly pregnant. And I lost my temper once on that. But that's generally not how I am.

Yeah, I can't imagine. I figured you'd get kind of quiet and just kind of. Yeah. I think I definitely have like a very intense, mean voice that like, you know, I mean. Does it shake a little bit? It's like, all right. This is what that's going to happen. If I'm upset, then yes, I'm sure my voice.

shakes yeah it's not a pleasant feeling i don't like being angry i don't like being angry so everything else is good though you're home you're you're being healthy you're you're respecting the quarantine and and that's that's that oh yeah we're super crazy about quarantine here obviously with a newborn at home so you know very we take everything really seriously and then you know it's a sort of a waiting game of i'm lucky to know that i will have a job to go back to and it's just kind of waiting until it's safe to go back i am looking forward to going to vancouver though because it's you know it's pretty safe up there they don't have that many cases what's your favorite episode finally with uh with season six i mean the episode i directed it was great it was a james

bond themed episode i got i got a great script i was so lucky um and i think that one's my favorite i like how you say that because i remember that too it's like oh i got a great script to direct as opposed to the mediocre or crappy scripts because like look people don't understand but there are a lot I mean, if you're writing 22 episodes a year, you're going to have probably five or six great ones, probably five or six pretty good ones, and the rest fall into the okay to crap category. It's true. It's hard.

You know, fans, I think, sometimes get frustrated when episodes, you know, don't move the plot forward as much as they like, but we're doing the best we can. Like 20, we used to have 23 episodes a season, you know, and you're still sort of confined. You only have so much money, and, you know, you have some of the bigger, more spectacle episodes where there's really a lot of money

in a ton of special effects spent. and then sometimes you don't spend as much money. You've got a simpler script. Awesome. Well, I think you're amazing and I love talking to you. And I can't wait to meet the baby. So someday. We can't wait.

Yeah, and I can't wait. Yes, hopefully soon. It will be. All right, take care of yourself. They'll play tennis soon, too. Give love to Hayes. I will. Rutherford B.

Do you know who that was? Yes, of course. He was president. Yeah. Well, okay. We looked for president's names to name our child. Rutherford, Pannebaker Robbins. No, it's.

Rutherford. I'm glad you didn't go with Rutherford. We did not go with Rutherford. All right, thanks. Thank you, sir. Talk to you, Sam. She's honestly so sweet. Sometimes you look at people and you're like,

how can they possibly be that nice? And you're thinking, maybe at home, maybe she gets really upset. I don't think so. I'm a good judge of character, I think. I don't know. I got a letter to read at the end of this show. I'm going to mention all my patrons at the end.

Camp Rosie, which is scheduled for October 31st, which is my summer camp. I don't know yet. So hang on. We'll see what happens. Also, Inside of You podcast, live podcast was Zach Levi scheduled for July 2nd in Austin, Texas at the North Door. That's going to be rescheduled, obviously, with what's going on. So be on the look at it. It will happen, hopefully later in the year.

But why don't we just get right into it? Also, we have one of Tom's old castmates from the show Ed and one of his best friends. We might say a word. So you might want to listen to this. Let's get inside Tom Kavanaugh. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

You know, here's the thing. I was a little nervous interviewing you. We haven't done that. well before and the reason is because i i think i feel like when i when i interview somebody who i know has it together hang on you know i look at you and you're like you know i hear all these great things about you i talked to daniel panna baker she did an intro on the show and talked about you and it's like you know you're just a great guy she talks about like you know when she's in the trenches and your guys are there and you're getting your hands dirty and she's emotional and

she says you've seen her at her worst and you're just the best to be around and then but and then you see you get four kids and you're married stability you're just a likable guy I'm like God my god why couldn't I be that I always compare myself to people who have their shit together sure listen it's a funny thing right I'll tell you a quick story um about that because it's always resonated me from the time I was like in high school I was walking with my dad and I was like I was talking about to him about how I was like getting towards being a senior in high school and I was like hey dad you know when I was starting out and I was a freshman those seniors seemed like men they seemed like they had everything together and they knew the world and they just knew how to navigate stuff and they were smart and they were funny and they had unwritten languages and they just it just seemed like man they seemed like they had their stuff together and said now I'm getting there and I still feel like the freshman. I still feel like I haven't learned a single thing

and I feel like it's just an act and I don't have my stuff together and my dad, we were walking down this leafy street he was a dean of a college. We were walking down the leafy street toward the college and he stopped and he was like, oh, I've been waiting for that feeling for my whole life. He said, all the professors at the college

they seem to know what they're doing, but I don't feel that way and I feel like I'm faking it. And, you know, I was like a young team, and that just stuck with me. And I said, so that's the answer to your question. It's like, you have it every inch is together and probably way more than I do. No way.

Or my peers or anybody else. You know what I mean? You don't listen to the show, obviously, because I don't have it together. I'm constantly trying to get that. You know, there's that scene in a Christmas vacate. I'm getting it together. I do listen to you. So you do have it.

Like, that's the whole thing. Part of the whole, part of the massive thing is to go like, here's my fly. right yeah you can start going yeah well you know if you have to like pave that shit over pardon my language no you can swear that stuff over right then you're just you're never gonna you're never ever going to have it together right part of the whole thing is to like go okay well I don't have it together those guys seem like seniors I don't know what I'm doing you know yeah you know Christmas vacation there's that scene with Clark Grizzold and his dad and he sits there in the whole house is a mess and it's just F

You know, and he goes, Dad, how did you do it? How did you do all those Christmases and all the? And he says, well, I had a little help from Jack Daniels. And that just kind of sums it up for you. You know, you think Dad's got it together. He doesn't have it together. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it's so true. I met you, I don't know if you remember this, but I don't know if you, in the backyard of Michael Ian Black, his house. It's funny because you were talking to Pencato and I think maybe Pancato. and I think maybe Panabaker and stuff. And I was like, I know, I know, Michael. I mean, we've crossed past. Here's the funny thing about you and I is, you know,

we're ancient dudes who, you know, who are still employable, you know, for a variety of solid reasons. I want to know those reasons. You'll get back to the reasons, but keep going. Sure. But part of that thing is like if you, there's not so many people like that.

If you're fortunate enough to have that kind of thing. That's just don't want to play. And then you've crossed past with those guys. You know, you're like, when you, you're like, oh, I remember the backyard. I remember the botchy. I remember like the band drive. I remember all this stuff. It's like, yeah, sure. That's, yeah, he's great. He's great. I know him. And what's funny is we spent probably logged together personally side by each, maybe like an hour. Right. And yet it's like, yeah, I know that guy. He's great. Right. That's sort of how Hollywood is in a way. but like I think when you meet people like you're like you remember if they were nice if you like them or you remember if you didn't right you remember those people right I'm sure there's people in your life that you go whether you've worked with them or not that you've gone yeah that guy sure even if you didn't know him that well it's that guy how do you deal with that guy like in your in your being on the flash being on you know when you're on ad you've done so much shit Broadway and all that stuff when you deal with personality differences when you just meet somebody do you is it is it is it difficult to sort of be cordial and fun and nice because you're that guy or do you uh sometimes have to do you ever flip out on somebody i don't know i mean do you like i don't i don't know that the interesting about your thing is like your show is like you know your your questions um there's a preset that it's like you're going to you're going to have like self knowledge he grant came on your thing and

And, you know, I thought, I thought that was a great episode, right? And I think it was sounded with a lot of people that know him or those people that don't know him that are going to like go, hey, Grant is, you know, like an idol of mine or Grant is, you know, the greatest thing. And he, you know, he talks about, you know, social anxiety and that kind of stuff. And it's like that there's a, the common thread through all that is self-knowledge, you know. And so that specific question, I'm like, I could, I could give you an answer. and go like this is what I do Michael I do this when I made that guy right but largely I think the first thing I go is like that guy's a dick you know and then I'm like I'm gonna avoid that guy right and there's no real strategy it's like I it's a read and react do you know I do and then when you're forced here's a perfect example if I don't have to spend time with that guy I'm not going to spend time with that guy right and I'm not going to say listen the reason of I'm not spending time with you is because I do not like, you do not have a sunny countenance.

You're indulgent, right? But I won't do that. I'll just, I'll go hang out with you, you know, and we'll just go have our time, unless I'm forced into, you know,

being with that person because it's a, it's a, it's a, we're doing a play or, you know, yeah, that's what I'm sort of getting at is like, you know,

when you work with someone, because you're always Mr. nice guy, you're always the leader. I mean, look at you, they, they,

that you directed the 100th episode of Flash. They got to love you and know that you're, stable and you could do the shit so that's why so a guy like you i wonder that's why the question was sometimes it comes out weird but the thought was good guy got a shit together on set everybody respects him is there ever that moment where he's just like he's just like dude shut the fuck up yeah sure of course but you know i think part of the thing is like that the idea that like well you know we all have those flaws my experience has been largely when the guy's a dick, there's some way to work it through.

And usually that way is like, look, I'm just telling you guy to guy, person to person, you know, if it's a female, if it's a male, it doesn't really, it's not a gender-specific thing. It's like, here's how I feel. That's the bottom line for me. And like, Danielle Grant can say all these things. Like, if you say, I think this, this is how I feel. No one can say, no, you don't. you know and I say I feel like we're not getting along I feel like you're you don't like me and I'm having trouble with this kind of thing and it's just like look I feel this way oftentimes largely my experience has been there's a way there's some way in some way to connect really is the person is the dick just a dick it's like the time when you're like you've worked 16 hours and you know someone's like someone yells out hey Lex or whatever and you just don't have time for it and he's like yeah and then their next day going to that guy is a dick he's just like

keeps waved me off you know what i mean right we won't let those things you're not like you're not a dick and there's one of those things where you're like all right well there's a way in to connect a little bit when you when you have to has been my experience you know yeah we're all human the person is just simply a dick there's generally it's easy to fool them right you can like say here's what i need this is going to be great you're going to be amazing you know ah yeah the old Jedi mind trick the old hey you're so awesome oh my god and they're like well I literally look at the leadership in America and you're just kind of like look right there's like there's there seems to be the way in right is never like right they're just going to go like oh you're bad

you disagree with me you're bad but if people like yeah no like there's reason and compliments and there's you know there's there's ways in that's that's human yeah it's all insecurity too I think it stems from insecurity when somebody's, for instance, when I did Smallville, the first, the pilot episode, the guy who plays my dad, Tony Award winning John Glover, I thought he just didn't like me.

I thought, I was like, wow, he doesn't like me. This is so uncomfortable. I want him, I want him to like me. I've always been the guy, I want you to like me.

What can I do to make you like me? The one guy in the room that doesn't like me, maybe two, I want them to like me. And then, so at the end, I just said, it wasn't until the series got picked up.

I started talking to him. I'm like, Yeah, I just, you didn't not like me in the pilot, huh? He goes, what? I go, I just felt like he didn't like me. He's like, of course, I was so nervous. They had called me two days before to do this. And I'm doing my John Glover impression.

And, you know, and that was sort of the way it was. By the way, you do, you do impressions. And when I saw this interview with you that I love, because it's so true. And really actors get it. But you really gave some perspective to the outside. world looking in like those guys like Christian Bale when they do Batman when they play superheroes when they talk a certain way

it's so true because I'm like I always think I got to play Lex cooler than this I can't be Rosenbaum. Fuck no one wants Rosenbaum is Lex Luthor I can't be like hey Clark do you we should go fucking I don't know driving my Porsche who says Porsche and then so

there was sort of like a reserved kind of thing that I wasn't used to doing that I got used to doing it wasn't that I completely went okay Tom but you have tell me about that tell the audience who hasn't heard that that theory you have yeah that was I think that was a rolling stone interview and part of it was like the conditions of being because uh you know you and I both play iconic uh yeah there was like a when I play um I play the reverse flash for for the people who don't know on the show which is like that's the arch enemy of the flash and flash is played winningly by Grant Dustin and The reverse flash is played servicably by Tom Caled now. And, you know, they're arch enemies. The reverse flash is the Joker to the Flash is Batman. And when you're playing like one of those arch enemies, you know, there's a catalog of,

this is how we do it as part of the Pantheon. And the thing that I used to come into is the debacle of 10 yards versus 40 yards. because if you're down the street and I'm like, you know, already catch me alive, Michael. You know, I land, and boom, I do the superhero thing, boom. Do you remember, this is an aside, you're going to love this. There was a time in the late 90s, early aughts,

when they were doing Michael Rosenbaum and you were on NBC, right? And they were doing a promo for you. They wanted, you remember they did all those promos for all that? They wanted you and your co-star. When they were doing your solo, They wanted you to do this. Ready, and action? Do you remember that?

Yeah, and they'd slow it down. They'd even slow it down a more. It bled out from the entertainment industry into sports so that Drew Brees, quarterback for the New Orleans Saints, and he'd be like, he'd have a ball, and he'd be like, I remember watching, like, Eli Manning and all these guys just be like, when they write their number, like, just kind of looking up, right? And it's sort of, it's still there, but it used to be at 85% barometer,

but now it kind of comes in around 30. But there was that thing where they also, like, they did this too. And it was, you know, when you were like, you would like do kind of that kind of thing away from that. Just kind of swing back and forth. Do you remember that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

He felt so stupid doing these promos. And then you kind of would do this. Like, oh, wait, oh, you know, you do the like the spin around. I'm sitting on a chair, a spinning chair, spinning around. Yeah, yeah. Really? They were on that. You're on a turntable.

and they were going to cut away, but there was always that great moment where they didn't cut away and you were still like... Still kind of looking when you're... And so for these kind of like stereotypical moments

to break out of, it's very difficult, as you know, to break out of them because this is how it's done in the comic book, right? Right. Rarely is the guy, you know, like who's just like completely,

hey, Clark! You know, because Clark's like, nah, you know what? You're not a worthy opponent. I'm Superman. Even from 40 feet away, but you think, but no, because you did this whole thing where you're like, someone's yelling and you're like, or, here's what it is. So I'd be like, if it was you and I facing off, I'd be like, I'd land, bang, and I'd be like, you don't like to take me a lot of microphone. And then you'd be like, I'm, I'll never, you want some fries.

No, I said, you'll never take me a live, Michael. I'm, I, I, is, well, you need a ride or a cycle? No, you'll never take me a live, Michael. I'm so sorry. He's like, never mind, just never mind. You know?

And that was the guy, he was ordering, the guy that I was doing on the Rolling Stone was he was basically ordering sushi. He was ordering food in a restaurant.

Oh, I'm sorry you'll have that. You all just have water. But it's cool. That's the cool voice. And when you're far away, I don't know how many times I've said that where I'm talking to,

you know, you're right, Clark across the room. And he's like, and I'm just like, Clark. And they could never hear you. No.

Like, what are you saying, dude? Right. I'm not cool. And when they air this, it won't be cool. It'll be cool now. And how many times have you seen, I've had guest stars come on, and they're even quieter than anybody I've ever heard.

And I'm talking to them, I'm like, I need you to check up on this scientist. I want you to check them on. I was like, sir, we haven't found any information. I don't. What? I can't hear what you're saying. And he kept doing it. I'm like, oh, fuck, this guy's going to be terrible.

And then you see it and I'm like, God, that guy was great. He was so intense. I got to do the lower register voice. It's the magic of the 100 to 150 millimeter lens Where they're like, I can be way over here But on TV it's going to be like this I can be as quiet as I want And you're still going to hear it

Right? And it's just like, that's the movie magic. Yeah, I mean, because look, look, Broadway, you've done a lot of theater, you did Ed, you've done movies, and now you're on Flash And now you get to play a bad guy And then you get to play a bunch of other characters Dr. Wells, who's like different personalities, right?

He's all over the places in different universes this character so you could play sort of nice and sort of like you just do you like this stuff

as much as you like the Broadway as much as you like the straight drama or is it just another thing that you're experiencing? I wouldn't grade it

in comparison in any way only because that's this is not a politically correct answer and I think you understand why this is because I perceive from gratitude

to have any job. I really do. It's not like that is not like a blanket statement of like, you know, because one of the things that, especially I think you and I know this, and I think it's lost on people that have success at 21 and they'll, they'll get there because how could you have any basis of comparison? But the idea that, you know, proceeding from gratitude for the employment or the specific job that you have is a huge thing

because I think a lot of people go, well, Michael is just, he's just dancing from this show to that show to this movie, to that play, to this kind of thing. And Tom's doing the same. And I think what people miss is the giant in capitalized letters, will they have you? And most of the time, they won't. They want somebody better than me. They want somebody is more of cachet. They want Brad Pitt.

And that's kind of a fanciful example. You know, it's like that's the way it is. That's just the way Hollywood is. But they do want Brad Pitt, but I'm trying to come up with an example. It's like, if they're, if they're, if they. can get me they're also kind of like well maybe we could get matthew perry or you know what i mean like there's there's some other element that's kind of close but you know like it's a better get for them it's a better splash when they make an announcement and we run into that all the time and i think

when i watch somebody who's not me like you i think he's just going from gig to gig or i look at you know movie stars um i look at i'm friends with uh this isn't this is a name drop but he's doing such great stuff right now, John Krasinski. Oh, dude, by the way, I'm a huge horror fan. Yeah, huge and quiet place was just one of the things that I really liked. I mean, I don't like a lot of horror these days, and that was really good. The interesting thing about that is one of the whole things, when we talked about directing, one of the whole things, one of the main things I try to do is, and it's obvious, because

everyone director, I think, wants to do this, but you want to show and not tell. but that movie the whole the whole basis of that movie was show don't tell because they're not you can't talk and so it's so interesting

right like oftentimes when you're a young actor like can you communicate what you're trying what's going on in this scene without using words

and you should be able to do that by and large but then of course we do superhero shows where there's a massive amount of writing about feelings and people are so

there's so much self knowledge you run into something like a quiet place it can be jarring because they did such a magnificent job, these characters were so rich and so fulfilled, and yet they didn't

say anything. I would have died. I would have died in the first minute, not being able to say anything. Even if I wasn't supposed to die, I still would have to. Rosenbaum, you can't talk. Well, I just, I have to. There's like, there's like a meeting amongst the producers at night, like, hey, so I know he survives to page 68, but we were thinking, what if we kill Michael in the first scene? Would that be cool? Like, I know it's a rewrite, but we can do that. Plus, the other actress can't hear him when they're acting. He's, like, far away. He's not even, he's whispering like he's playing a superhero or something.

I just don't get it. What is he doing? What's he doing over there? This is what I do on my show. But you were, the answer of your question is like, you know, I don't have, I know it seems pat, but it really is true. I never would have expected, you know, to be putting on a, in the age of superhero, to be one of the people who gets to put on the villains.

suit you know what i mean i that would never have been you know when i started out professionally i never thought and at one point you know i hope to play joker or you know a reverse flash or something like that and so i have a i have a massive amount of gratitude for that because you know that could have to a myriad of humans and i you know that became one of those things like will they have you they would have me for that one and so i think for most of the rules that you get you're just like, oh, that's great. I got this role. I remember my first Broadway show, I'm Canadian, I got cast out of Canada.

I couldn't believe it. I just, I couldn't believe it. Was it you in town? That was, that was a play, and I think it was around the turn, our boys were just coming home from war. Like it was, you know, a national nightmare. It was over. That was a show called Shenandoah about the, about the Civil War.

a musical starring Hal Lyndon from Barney Miller fame and went on to be voiced by the inimitable John Cullum. Interesting enough, John Cullum and I did another Broadway show years later and John Cullum was the lead of that one too. You know, he's a massive talent. And, you know, the interesting thing is about that is when the New York, the Broadway producers came on their search through America and then through Canada, you know, they, the advantage I had was they didn't know anybody.

So in the echelon of Canadian actors, I was at the very bottom, but they didn't know who the guys at the top were either. So it was for a brief moment in the audition room, it was a fair fight. And, you know, I got that job. and the gratitude for getting that job going to Broadway. You know, you had the elation when they're like, hey, guess what, Michael, you're, you got the role. And it's like, it lasts for a little bit. And then you get there.

And then there's obstacles to overcome. And you're like, this guy's an idiot. And there's, you know, something doesn't go well. And you're like, it all plunges away. Like, I remember playing basketball and going, I just want to make the team. And then after you make the team, that's all you wanted. You just want to be part of the team. And after I want to be part of the team.

And after that you want to start. I want to get my point. You know, like, it's just that whole Michael Jordan if you have a competitive nature. But what was interesting about that Broadway thing, and I know I'm talking about myself way too much. No, this is why I want you to. The interesting thing about that Broadway thing

is that elation lasted. It's still there. You know what I mean? Normally that stuff goes away and then you start taking stuff for granted. I be walking down from 70 Second Street where I live down to like the theater, and I'd be like, this is ridiculous. You just kept waiting for someone and go like, okay.

right you're just at the stage door going like you know I don't know and you'd be like yeah no I know I know I know you really felt like so do you feel like that even today or is that kind of that feeling that you don't feel that anymore is it more like a job do you still get excited do you still get excited about going on on the set of the flash do you or does it become just kind of like work because it is a lot of work of work I mean a lot of people say no no I go I have fun every day but the reality is do you I mean if you talk to if you talk to the people that I work with I think a lot and I think a lot of the things things, I think I'm aware that they say nice things, and I'm aware that, you know, Hartley says, oh, you wear the C, which is like for a captain. And that's largely because for people like, you've been through enough that you've seen enough situations, you can't offer advice on this thing because you've seen it before and that thing. And so the short answer to the question is, yeah, that's still there. And the reason, one of the main reasons that's there is because, wait, you know, you

You don't job hop from job to job to job. You have these valleys, and people don't see it. And then it's like, hey, George Clooney hasn't worked for two years, but you don't know that because he's George Clooney, and you don't know what kind of things he's been through. And it's the same thing for every actor. It's like, oh, now you're doing Flavs. So that's great.

But what they don't know is that you had these valleys between where you're like, I got to make my rent. I got to feed a family. And those things, the longer your career is the more you run into those valleys. actor is going to run into those things because even for the huge movie stars I read this thing that again

to talk about which I don't know Clooney I'm just We all know Clooney. He said he thought like he was the ER he did ER and he was like you know he then he became like this huge movie star and then he you know he just gradually became the biggest thing

and he said in an interview which I think he shared the interview of Julia Roberts who also was a mega mega star and his point was he thought that when he made it that there was a golden-doned room of gilded scripts and once he became a movie star those would all be you know the floodgates would open right that would be for him he could just pick and choose and then what you realize when what he realized with it well leo wants it and brad wants it and everybody else wants it and so

and then they don't audition anymore and so now it becomes a bit of a political game and there aren't that many really, really good scripts around. And so even for those people at what we consider it be the height of stardom, they have their own anxieties and they have their own problems on a Fox series with Kevin Bacon. And he and I sort of lived in the same neighborhood in New York. And it was great to see him. He's Kevin Bacon. And one time, as an aside, you know, we were just kind of sitting talking while they're setting

up a shot. and talking about his career and the thing that resonated with me, he said, yeah, it's kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop, you know, meaning, you know, there's more stuff coming, hopefully. You know what I mean? And then he's really going to, you know,

and he's really, right, right. Whereas to me, it's like, that is the kind of career that I aspire to, every actor aspires to all these iconic movies and these great performances, you know, and, like, he plays music, and he's just an involved guy. And you're kind of like, if that guy is waiting for the other shoe to drop, then I need to be grateful for what I have. Of course.

Well, you said, hang on, you said, I want to go back a little bit because you said something about those moments where you just want to get your rent and those meals and this and that. You probably had them pre-ed, pre-med, pre-ed, right? You probably had those feelings. Did you have any of those after Ed lasted four years? And were there any of those times where you were like, oh, I got to get back to work? I got to. I mean, especially when you have a family, I guess that's a dumb question. really because you always have to kind of work when you have four kids yeah you always

I think there's a thing that you never look back or at least I don't look back you're always like you're focused on the thing that's coming and if you've done anything good it doesn't matter there's a Billy Holiday line one thing for always and two ain't but twice meaning like you may have done something but that doesn't that means nothing you know what I mean what's the big Ruth I hate that I hate that what you just said say that again once ain't for always and two ain't but twice but here's why it's good if you screw up this is part of the idea

there'd been a guy who wrote an article in the New Yorker was just like basically he'd been a war hero but also he'd done something awful and the idea behind is like we're all going to screw up and when you screw up the important thing is to remember

that that doesn't make you a screw up you know and if you've done something great it doesn't make you a great person you know Babe Ruth had this quote yesterday's home runs don't win today's home runs don't win today's games right and so i think that's that's a massive part of not only is it i think a healthy thing

to like to stay humble but also i think for what what we do if if you think yeah i've got it that's death a little bit you know yeah you lose your drive maybe you're the eye on the price you want to be like nobody cares about what you've done in the past when you're doing the scene now this scene now has to be done well. And, you know, if you don't, if you don't nail it, you feel, you feel badly a little bit. And that, you know, that's a, that's, that's, that ongoing challenge is the thing that's that's going to keep you sharp a little bit, as opposed to like complacency, which is, which is, which is going to kill you.

So, yeah, I mean, I, being Canadian first, I didn't have the advantages of, you know, for an American person they can go audition but for a canadian person they have to cross over the border and then they have to like audition and then if they get it they have to show papers and there's a there's a massive thing to overcome and so part of the thing just to play at the level that you're playing at was there's a struggle to get there so that that's that's a leap of faith and you once you get that then it's like well I hope I can keep keep with it and if you get fortunate enough to do something like Ed, like that came after like a decade's worth of doing musical theater and Canadian television.

And what was interesting about that is nobody knows what you're doing when you're doing a, at least back in the day when I was doing it's different now, but when I was doing Canadian television series, nobody would watch them. They were all watching friends. And what was good about that was you still did the same daily that you do, that I do, when you go to do a television show now. It's still, there's the grip setting up the stuff. There's the, there's the juices, there's the electrics,

there's the, you know, there's the camera guys sitting in the track. There's like, all that stuff, right? Everyone's doing their job. And it's the exact stain, regardless of whether somebody watches it or doesn't watch it. And it gets you into this mindset that this is what matters. This is important to do this scene well. So by the time you get something like a decade later, you get something like Ed, you're like, all right, well, we're not,

reading reviews. We're just trying to do this thing well. And then when that show ends and you're doing something else and nobody wants you anymore, you're like, yeah, I know what that is. I got you got to scramble and fight, you know. I worked, the show I did after Ed was a show with Jason Priestley, who had been this supernova star for the younger viewers here for your show on 90210. And he'd been as big as you could get. And then after that, people say, well, you did that guy. You did Brandon now we don't want you and he just had to like stay humble work hard he became a really talented and able director you know he just like I'm gonna go fight for roles and that's what he he said is like people are like well we're happy to have you and then when he would go out when we'd walk

around being shot in New York when we'd walk around everybody wanted a piece and he always had time for people yeah I remember thinking that's just great it's like Cal Ripkin signing every autograph while he's doing the streets he's like look you know you need to be grateful for what you have, which sounds trickier than it is, I think. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater.

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Rocket Money. I saw a video of you talking about you were at a convention and you were going to race your fans and you sort of like I love my fans like people are like you know I'm a fan

if you saw my room it's just like post shows of autographs I've talked about yeah so when I go to cons people don't realize I used to go to cons before I was anybody I used to go to horror cons like New Jersey Horror Fest

or whatever Fright Fest and meet like fly boy the guy in Dawn of the Dead you know and the guy in the helicopter I'm like, oh, my God, his autographs $10. I got to go, I got to get it signed.

So when I hear about this, I go there and I really enjoy my, I feel like they're friends. They're like, they sort of get it and they know me. And it's like, I'm finally the cool guy maybe, even though I'm not. Like, high school is never the cool guy. So when I go there, I'm like, hey, I belong. I belong here with these folks. This is cool. So do you feel like you're also a fan in a way, but you just like the way you handle your fans.

And I think you seem like you really enjoy it. Yeah. I think a lot of it comes from, I know I keep repeating myself, but it's like, you know, you're grateful. You're fortunate. I feel fortunate to be in the position. I think that it's a, I think it's a massive thing to have, like, there was this flyboy back in the day was like a niche thing.

And now if you go to San Diego Comic-Con, you know, that's general knowledge and accepted as like, it's part of the mainstream way. it's not comic books in a bedroom it's like this is the golden age of this thing you know what I mean and you do stuff where you're part of that you're part of that yeah that's ridiculous that's incredible to be part of a golden age of anything I think and maybe not even it may the golden age might be like 20 years down the lot who knows but there's a there's an element to the fact that you the cons are uh not for the they're for the they're for

for the uninformed and the informed nowadays. You know, it's just like it's a, it's mass entertainment. And if you get to be one of those guys like that you go into Hall H and everyone's cheering for you because everybody knows you because, you know, you share sort of the same, you share the same ideologies as the people in the stands. That makes you, first off, not cool and cool is the myth, right? It's just like, great, you don't have spent any time doing that. You just want to jump in and enjoy the,

life that you're given and that's part of the that would be yeah be uncool jump in there yeah and so i you know it's never lost it like look the reason like the flash is a popular show on uh on c w is because of these people it's like it's like it's such simple it really is simple right it's just like yeah and again i have the benefit of being on canceled show after canceled show after cancel show after i've been there you know what i mean yeah and like i've been on a show where i was like i was like i was supposed to go promote the show for its third episode and I was on, this is another name drop, Conan O'Brien and there's a knock on the door and it's the producer, third episode about to do Conan to promote the show and, you know, it's Michael Roush, our producer showrunner who's like,

hey, they pulled us. You know what I mean? And, you know, that's Hollywood. They're not your friends. Like, well, before we went on to- Wait a minute. You're about to do Conan and they told you this? Correct. That's how you found out before you went on end. Correct. Who would tell you that? Well, I'm glad they told me so I didn't go promote a show that had been yanked. This is a great, this is a great Hollywood story because on the surface, it just seems so mean, right? Right. Nobody's, well, my experience is nobody's really been, there's not a, there's no, there's no, there was vindictive.

They're not out to get you. Right. It's a numbers game, you know, like you can help them, you know, and. Or you can't help them. You know what I mean? And it's just like they're like, is he, is Michael going to be a good announcement? Are we happy to have them? Like there's a lot of things like, oh, you can help us.

So good. So we want to get Michael. Or it's like, yeah, you know, we're not going to, he's not going to help us. And so, you know, one of the best advice you can give anybody is like, don't take it personally in, you know, in the entertainment world. It's hard when you're sensitive. I'm sensitive You will take it personally Yeah

Your heart will be broken You have to learn You have to learn how to deal with that Yeah of course You'll be crushed But there's a difference between Having a thing that you love taken from you You know when I say a thing you love

I mean you know like Your job You know having that taken from you Versus having someone Take that job from you To purposefully hurt you Right Which is my experience is like they're not

No one's everyone's just These executives who are doing that they're scrambling for themselves it's all out of fear it's all out of what am i going to do i don't know what to do i'm listening to you i don't try to keep their own station stay alive and if that means cutting your show before you go on to promote it on conan but that was a hang on what do you now honestly now what i would have probably done it was like going hey actually i just backstage heard that the show got canceled so isn't that a great time so i mean what did you do well you know i was I was there, and I was only there to promote that show.

And even though this podcast is going to make it seem like I love talking about myself, I don't. You're the guest. Look, you know how many times I've heard Tom, no, times I've heard, oh, he was talking over the guest. Let the guest talk. I'm like, dude, it's an hour. Sometimes I do talk over.

Fuck, you know, but like you're the guest, so they want you to talk. But I talk enough. Believe me. I know the deal. This podcast will be the end of your podcast. I was that said. I couldn't stand anymore. I had to listen to one more actor talk.

I just turned them off. No, this is all so interesting. Go, go. So this stuff, because I don't like talking about myself and because I've done a few television shows, up to that point, I had Conan worked for NBC and I worked for NBC, and so we crossed past a number of time. We lived in the same neighborhood.

He's, you know, he's so very talented. I'm sure you know this, and people know this. Oh, I was on Conan. before yeah he's so quick yeah he's funny he's quick he's Harvard educated he's like he's he's just he's humble he's got all those incredible things together and so he understood when I had done his show before I was like I don't like talking about me and so he or we would come up with some kind of gag or some kind of prank that I pulled on the show and he would air it at one point we did I showed him how to browse like a craft service table that was a segment that we did

ended up with somebody getting shot I can't remember but but you know he was like you want to do comedy let's do comedy like he was game for that's cool it was incredible you know I yeah go ahead we were doing that thing and uh we were going to promote the show and I'm ready to go and then there's the knock on the door and I think it's the segment producer as you know that's the person who comes in and goes like hey Michael so remember we're going to talk about this this this this and going to walk you out to the stage. And there's a knock on the door, and I think it's a segment producer, but it's Michael Roush, the showrunner, and Michael goes, Michael goes, so they pulled us.

I'll never forget the intonation, I'll never forget the words verbatim, he goes, so they pulled us. And we stare at each other. We're in the green room, staring at each other, and then he kind of closes the door, and we're kind of look at each other, and it's a knock, and literally, I'm supposed to go. you know and and this time it's not the segment producer it's Conan and Conan goes I just heard and I'm like yeah and he says and this is like one of those like action movies where it's like 30 29 28 and he's like I totally get it if you you don't want to go on but you're a double and I got

nothing else a double means like we're going to do a thing we're going to go to commercial break and then come back to I'm going to talk to you I've never been a double I'm a single get out get out and I'm like I'm like, no, I'll go. And he's okay, good. And then they're rushing us out there. And it's like, five, four. He's like, can you talk about what just happened? I was like, better not.

I don't know what I would say. That might be really, really bad. He's like, yeah, yeah, okay. And literally he's like, dude. And Conan's there's like, hey, welcome back. And he's like, hey, everybody. It's like, I'm here with Tom Galvara. So you bike, right?

And he's like, he's like, the thing just sails by. Because he's so funny and he's so quick and nobody would ever have known. And then that summer I was doing You're in town. He's like, hey, come back on the show. And he's like, now can we talk about it? And I'm like, yeah, now we can talk about it. Wow. So the last time Tom was here, we...

See, that's perfect. He told the story and people in the audience were like, oh, yeah. I'm called because he was like, that's Hollywood, you know? And yet, even though it's like the most Hollywood kind of bad, bad Hollywood story I have, there's no intent like I say there's no intent of evil behind it how how many seasons did you do that was our third episode just three episodes in yeah and what was it called love monkey well i mean that's just effed three episodes how do you know anything well did you ever hear about Seinfeld

you give things a chance this is the thing though i remember a friend of mine did a show called like uh i had two friends and they both did shows that were like on and love monkey was the same thing. So I live in New York. It was on every bus, every taxi cab. And it was like, they loved it. We shot a full season. And as you know, but maybe people who are listening and don't know, we shoot so many episodes before we ever air them. And so for a while, the only, the only barometer you have is, is it good when it lands on your desk? And so, you know, I think that show, you know that I think that that show we were fine let me put it this way I think we were we were finding our way but the there was something ephemeral about Judy Greer was in the cast

Jason Jason Priestley Chris Wheel Lorenz Tate they were there was all set there was such talented human beings in that show that there was something ephemeral that translated from that to the screen and we were finding out how to capture it and I think the reaction from the network was like, this is great. You know, I think they really did enjoy it. It was an hour long, that's trouble one, about an A&R music guy in New York City. So it wasn't blood and semen for your hour long, you know, it wasn't like murder. It was just like, you know, it was human drama.

And I think that's a big problem on a big network. And again, like I say, not to offer excuses, but that's an hour of time. and if you can put CSI on and double the numbers, you're probably going to do that. But they were taking a shot with trying to make the network a little younger, a little Hipper, a little New York pool, little A&R, all that kind of stuff, some, some, some, a little bit of sex, a little bit of that kind of stuff.

And so you can't blame them for taking a foray to try and be more competitive with the cool factor that at the time, NBC and Fox and those. Sure. Yeah, I get. Yeah. So they were doing that. But then what's interesting is, Emily Reasons Why Not, and then the Michael Malley show had happened just prior to that. And what's interesting is they were plastered on every bus as well. And you probably remember this because you were doing stuff at the time. They were like the new big thing.

And the amount of money that got sunk into, you know, the advertising budget was astounding. And up until that, those moments, in my experience anyway, bridging both the, you know, the analog and the digital of all this kind of stuff. There was a thing where, like, if you put that much money into promotion, then you had to go with the show. And so famously, shows like Cheers and Seinfeld and Friends that didn't perform well, but had been promoted, they're like, look, you can't just yank it off the air. Why?

Because we'll look silly. And so they gave them enough time. And they had champions, Tardikoff and so on, who were like, no, this thing is good. Right. I put it on my desk. I did the litmus test. The barometer-wise, it showed up on my desk, and it looks good. So we're going to stay with it for a little bit.

But with Michael Malley and with Emily's reasons, why not, when they didn't perform numbers-wise to what they'd hope they would get because of promotion, they took them off the air immediately. I think it was like one episode or two episodes at the time, and there was no penalty. There was no backlash penalty to the networks. And I think that became, oh, that's an M-O- then. And if we can take them off and put it on CSI and nobody's going to, it's not going to be back to us, then that's just what we're going to do.

Well, you have a very cerebral way of thinking about these things. I don't know if you do it retrospectively. Like, if we look back at the younger Tom Kavanaugh and go, no, he was fucking pissed. The girl he was dating or was his wife at the time, whatever, was she like, oh, my God, remember how upset you were? You were smoking pot constantly? You were drinking all a bunch of shit. You were you getting it. And now you look at you and you're like, yeah, was it the same mentality or was there,

a part of that where you're like flipping out i think that it was less you know i'd howl at the i'd howl at the moon of course less pot smoking less drinking it was it was just a lot it was a lot more heartbreak yeah it was like that was the thing mostly it wasn't so much like you fucking guys it was more like uh i really like because you know how it is i really like acting with you and i'm hoping that we can do this for a long time yeah and then it gets yanked away And part of the reason that makes it so special acting with you is because I know it can be yanked away. And what you hope is that it won't be yanked away. And when it does get yanked away, even though, hey, we got to get together.

Hey, we got to. That never happens. If you're fortunate, you take one or two people from each show and you stay with them. But your intentions are great. But everyone else has to go make a living, try and find another job and go on and do that. And so there's heartbreak because the reality is the thing that you love and the people that you love, you're just not going to see them anymore. And that was, that's the biggest thing. The other thing is, and this is the silver lining or the golden part of it, is like, you know what?

That's, that door closing is, all right, what, what am I going to do next? Yeah. What could come next? Well, you know, something that, look at the flash. I mean, for instance, I mean, how many years since you came on? I mean, you came in six years ago. Yeah. you didn't think you were going to even be on the series that long right it was just like a

introduction of a character did you think you were going to be on this long no of course not oh no it's interesting you know that i didn't know that you knew that but yeah like there was it felt like after season one it was flash versus reverse flash and i thought that this is just and again i know i'm talking about myself so much but great berlante who's like collie was like hollywood's golden boy uber producer he's just tremendous he's one of the great human beings that I've ever worked with. You know, I remember Bill Lawrence, Michael Roush, and Rob Burnett. These guys are showrunners of shows that I've done.

And I've been really fortunate to work with people who are like great humans. Like they're intelligent, they're smart, they have perspective. Bill Lawrence is one of the guys who, his little quote was, like, you can't take it personally. You know. Scrubs, right? He was one of the crazy. You're the guy that did like Spin City and Scrubs. And he's like, they're not going to put the show on.

He's like, you can never take it personally. And you pick up stuff like that. And so, you know, Greg is so impressive because of his integrity. And I think most people who work on his shows can go like, yeah, it's rare that you meet someone who's so committed to doing the right thing. And back a long time ago, you know, there was a couple of things. I went in for a show of his and he wanted me for one of the leads and I didn't do it. And I thought, well, that'll be it.

that'll be it for him and I and he said as I walked out after saying no his words he was like well I'm not going anywhere meaning he's going to be around to do other shows but I was like that'll be it because I didn't do this show and then a little while later

he did this show called Jack and Bobby which lasted a season and called me up and said hey do you want to play this guy who rages at the moon and it looks like a drug problem or an alcohol problem and like he's got more things going on than that complicated character and wait no that was

Eli Stone. So Jack and Bobby was a gay cocaine-addicted brother to Christine Lotton. And, you know, at the time, people were like, Tom's a nice guy. So, but Greg would pick me for these, like, challenging roles and offered that to me. And I was like, this is an honor to have him think that I could do this. And that show only lasted a year. And then the next one, the guy raging at the moon was Eli Stone. Again, he called.

And it's one of those guys who, it's stunning to get a call. It's in your corner. Everyone needs that guy. He's just always been in your corner. he always sees, he sees it. Yeah, rare, so rare. So rare and it's so rare as you know to have someone going.

Because once they've done one thing with you, they're like, that's it. That's what you always think. If I turn down something or if like, yeah, you're like, oh my God, I remember I did this pilot. I'm not going to say the guy's name, but big director.

I did a pile. He's listening, if you do this pilot for me, I'm going to put you in all my movies. I want you to do this role. And I ended up doing it. The pilot didn't get picked up. It's been 20 years. I mean, that's the reality.

But then there are other guys like Eric Tanenbaum, who he's a big producer, two and a half man and, you know, he was a co-creator, not a creator, but one of the main producers on that show, but he sent me this script and goes, hey, I want you to do this. And I just was like, ah, it's just not for me. I don't want to do that. I just really, I just didn't want to do that, that role. And then I was like, that's it. I'll never call back. And then he did. We did a show called him pastor for two years. And he believed me. He's like, listen, you're this guy. You have to do this. And we talked about it. And we did it. And so you're right. It's, it is rare when

they come back. Usually they get, it's almost like you get one show. Oh, that producer hates me now I didn't do the role for them. You always feel that, but it's a rare occasion. So that's nice. It's very, very rare. And to have somebody like somebody who's as prolific and committed as Greg believe in you is amazing. And so when we first started the flash together, obviously it had a modicum of cachet

because they'd done Arrow and Arrow had done well. but you just never know and like you expect you know the knock on the thing like hey they pulled us and gregg i think people forget had come from that you know jack and bobby once he's like he'd done a lot of things that didn't say this guy's going to become the biggest you know producer of all time and so and he stayed humble through it when we started flash very early on you know um in my head we would be canceled by october because that's just been the experience like we'll do seven and then seven to 13 and that'll be it. And your wife was probably saying like, what do you think?

You're like, yeah, I'll probably do this and that'll be it. I'm just, that's what I'm counting on, right? She was starting a thing called the Players Tribune. She's a creative director of the Players Tribune for your sports fans out there, which is the Derek Jeter branded site that talks about the story of the athlete in their own words. And it's tremendous. You know, it's where Steve Nash announced his retirement. Brian is one of it, was always on the board.

there's just a great it's a great uh site with integrity because instead of eW interviewing you about your story as an actor you write it out yourself you know what's that noise but that's a that's a garbage truck oh is that what that is essential i was like hmm my oCD was like what is that what is that so but because it was a because um you know jita was finishing off his time with the yankees and it was a digital startup, you know, both of them were like, you know, there's about four people that started up. They're like, well, we'll be done in like two months. That'll be it. And we're starting to flash and I was like, well, we'll be done in October. That'll be it. And because that's largely the story. And very early on, we had a, we had a couple of things that happened

really quickly. We introduced like some big names on the shell. And I remember saying to Greg, are we all worried about story because you were just like flopping all this stuff out and he was like there's always more story and his his intent was like look I love the flash and if it gets canceled like so much stuff I just want to have that DVD on my desk which dates Greg what is like when I have that DVD on my desk to say I did it and so season one was very such a simple and clean thing where Flash his mother is killed by the villain and he needs to confront the villain and it just and who is the villain and I was in the wheelchair and I was the villain but you didn't really know and then it got the layers of

the onion got peeled out and then at the end it was like flash fights reverse flash and the season one and it was like crisp and clean storytelling uh I thought that the cast jelled well and did a did a good job telling that story and it's very difficult as you know it's like well we did it and then it's like oh wait now they want more and so even though you know I think a lot of like producers and writers sound confident that I've been in that thing where you're writing something you're like I don't know I remember on Ed

Rob Burnett said we're bringing your parents in was on episode 10 because we got nothing else you know he's like so we got to bring the parents in because we got no other we don't know what we're going to you know and that show lasted four more years it's like it's right that can be a daunting thing for people who are

trying to tell the story and so when did you know when did they when they Once we finish that verse, slash, I thought, like, well, that's it, you know, because you can't, you can't have him every four episodes going like, you'll never get me, flash. Right. You just can't do that. You can't repeat that. You have to, like, good storytelling is like, you want to invent some new stuff.

And so I thought, well, that's it for me. But then Greg and I had this idea of like, what if? Because there's, it's, in our thing, there's a multiverse, which is, there's many different versions of Michael. We thought, well, what if we could create a different guy? every season and then as an actor you're like and still be the reverse

flash when we need to be the Dr. Harrison Wells. So it ended up being like you know such an incredible such an incredible what a run. It's incredible. That kind of thing

almost never happens where you get to like as an actor it's a dream to create more than one character if you're fortunate enough to be on a long running show and Flash has turned out

to be that then largely you're playing the same person to be able to reinvent but also play the arch enemies speaking of which Speaking of which, before, I got some shit-talking questions from my Patreon and I'm going to let you go because I don't want to ever do long. I love this. I could go this forever. Can you just play the French version, the Sherlock? Sherlock. You're not doing it right. I know. I didn't try. No, you pronounce Sherlock, but it's Sherlock. That's a gag that we did the whole time. And we started doing that one. Come up with the idea that, well, this guy.

everybody pronounced the name wrong, but then the girl that he loves, she's the only one that pronounced it right. So that's what we did, Sherlock. And then every time somebody say, the very first time we did this, by the way, this gag, the actors. So I come up with these things, and the actors never know what's going to happen. And the very first time we did it, the line was just like something like Danielle Panabayor and go like, okay, Sherlock. And then that's it. But I corrected her while the camera was running. I'm like, she's like, so Sherlock, I'm like, look. She's like, look, look, look, Sherlock,

Sherlock, look, look, look, look, look, Sherlock, Sherlock. And so, when you know me, I can do that all day. That gag doesn't get all day. It's funny, funny, funny, then really not funny, then really not funny, they're really not funny. Then really. You know what I mean?

Yeah. That to me, that humor, I love that. And so that became a running gag. Anytime, anyone, while the camera was running, while the camera wasn't running, said that character's name, I would correct them. So there you go.

I've done that for your patron people. I love that. All right. So here it is. This is just some questions from patrons. There's just a couple questions. Spitfire. So you answer them quickly.

We just do it. Here we go. Shit talking. Samantha M. Do you prefer playing a good version of Harrison Wells or an evil version? Evil. Thank you. Of course.

Evil. Of course. You understand that. Yeah. I like playing evil. Although Lex, I had to play good for quite a while until I finally got to flip out. And that was really fun.

Mark A. Could we hear? And then I got to talk like this along. Mark A, could we hear about your time on bang, bang, you're dead, always thought it was underrated, and sadly, the movie only becomes more relevant. Yeah, for the people that don't know, so that's like, that's, that's not spitfire. That's basically like about, but as quickly as I can do, you can't do a spitfire thing about gun violence. Yeah, Mark.

It's bad. Come on, Mark. It's bad. No, that thing was like one else, you know those things that you're like, rarely do you feel like you're ever contributing to society? You know, a little bit. That was one of those jobs where I was like, okay, you know, William McSorone, who wrote the play, and then they made the movie of it,

their intent was to get this into school curriculum and not make any money off this thing ever. And essentially, it's told from the perspective of children who've lost their lives in school shootings and what they've given up and what they don't have anymore. It's heartbreaking. excuse me, it's so, it's important. I'm not going to be able to spitfire a good answer for this, except that sometimes you're so fortunate to do something you think is worthy.

And for those people that don't know, go read bang, bang, bang, you're dead, or go look up bang, bang, you're dead, or watch bang, bang, you're dead. Because like this person said, it's sadly so much part of the dialogue these days, and we so wish it wasn't. But hopefully anybody that could look at this

can see why we feel the way we do. Robert B., can you recall a memory of one of the hardest days you've had working on the flash set? Could you not? I can't do it. I can't finish. I'm exhausted. I'm my mind. He didn't say all that.

It's just easy. And you can actually, there's dailies that are great. So when one of the characters I play, Harry Wells, is running with his rifle through the woods and being chased by a giant gorilla, Grodd. I had been up all that night vomiting. My old family was sick with. stomach flu and after like throwing up from four or five am i had a six a m pickup i was like i can't go into work and he was like it's raining it's pouring rain in vancouver in stanley park and there's 185 people waiting on you yeah you're going and so i went and you can literally

see in the dailies cut and then i run behind a tree and throw up whoa you know it was one of those things like i was diving over logs and they're like cut so there you have it there you go robert Lisa, the multiple personalities slash versions of Wells is my favorite character in the Flash. Okay, that kind of made sense. What has it been like

portraying all the personalities and your favorite version of Wells is Shulok. Shilok. Shilok. Shilok. You're doing it wrong. Lerok.

So there's H.R. Wells and he's kind of like, you know, if you know who Owen Wilson is, he's kind of like that. He loves you, man. You're amazing. The flash is so fast, bro. So that guy's great.

And then there's Harry who hates everybody. anti-social, party gold. That's fun to do. There's Sherlock. He's great. The sunny wealth, X me how I'm doing. I'm unbelievable. This Havelas was also good, but kind of, you know, he's German, right?

And so there's a whole bunch of them, and there's no favorite. You know, the person that I'm, the reason I'm there is the guy that wears the yellow suit. So that's my favorite thing to do, play the reverse flash. And then after that, when we start doing, I think there's 19 versions of Wells, which is shameless to say. But, and I, this is the line that I used, but it really is true. The guy that I'm doing that day, the Ozzy Wells, oh, yeah, you know, all picture drope. You know, whatever doesn't matter.

The sunny Wells, are you doing? The guy that I'm doing that day is the guy that I love doing. Leanne P., have you ever taken up any new hobbies now with the quarantine? Eucolary. Really? Yeah, man. Oh, that's cool. I encourage your patrons to, you know, it's conquerable.

Pick up the ukulele, folks. Emily asks, who would be the one actor you'd love to work with that you haven't? Michael, my host, podcast host. Mike Ian Black, well, hang on. Right, perfect timing. So I emailed him last night. I said, if you want to say something. Oh, no way.

Is he on there right now? Hi, Tom. Michael Ian Black here with a quick shout out to one of my dear friends, Tom Kavanaugh, from Canada. That's it. Can I tell you, he's got this great runner that he does? So we do a podcast together. Do you know our podcast? Yeah.

Yeah, Tom and Mike eat chips, right? Yeah, Mike and Tom eat snacks. Snacks, mates, yeah, which became, this is the thing you love. You know him. His favorite part of, we did a television show together. His favorite part of the television show was lunch. He loved doing lunch. We're like, what?

You know that thing? We're like, how can we work together again? Like, you know, it's so hard. And we're like, well, we could gather and do what we always did and just record it. And then we get to be together. So that was a whole thing. And so his runner on this podcast is that he just, he's convinced that I, I play the flash.

And I refuse to correct him. He's like, how's it like doing the flash? It's great. He, uh, he, as you know, um, is a genius. Our first, I think he's our first link, you and me. Yeah. That's, that's where we met. Cheers to Michael Ian Black.

Funny ass man. Look him up. You know him. You'll be like, what, who? Then look him up and you've seen him in everything. Uh, he's a genius. I love, I love the guy. Rachel, Rakin, Rachin.

I'm going to mess her name of him. When you're playing a character who is so far removed from who you fundamentally are, you look for inspiration and others who behave this way or do you try to empathize and find something in them you can relate to i don't understand i don't either let's skip it let's skip no no i get it i get it it's like yeah that's the that's the job you know act so i uh we've all got like rage and anger and all the emotions you need to play any kind of character we've got goodness so you just like you tap into you tap into that i love you know that's we love that stuff yeah you know yeah we do

Dude it, Dee, I could answer this question if Tom doesn't want to, because I can guess it. Do you have any input into the different versions of Harrison Wells? It feels like they let you do it ever you want, and I love it. That's pretty much exactly it. That is it. And you know what? I remember saying that Todd Helbing is like, what if he was like, you know, he was like, what if, like, we were pitching the Sherlock thing. And I was always like, but what if he's French?

And he's like, I'm like, what would that be like? He's like, it would be like this. And he's like, all right. I think the thing is, like, once you've done it long enough, they're like, you're not, you're going to be indulgent, but you're not going to, you're trying to help the show, you know, not hurt the show. So I think that, you know, man. I love this, man. I haven't seen you in so, so long, but you're so easy to talk to you, and you're so insightful. And you're just impactful. And you're just such a good guy. And I know that you're doing so well with the flash and you deserve it. I love seeing the good guys win. And, you know, I hope maybe, maybe you could promise me at the end of next season, you'll come back and talk about stuff. I'll talk to you anytime. Seriously? Michael Ian Black's backyard. You're fantastic. I think that we're on with you.

I thank you for those kind of like I sometimes I think you and I, we don't compliment well. It's very nice to you to say that and I appreciate it. I appreciate you. I'll talk to you anytime, my friend. Well, you guys heard that. Tom, Kavanaugh, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. That's something we say, I say. Thank you, Michael.

I appreciate you. I'll send you a mug, maybe. You want a mug? They're really cool mugs. Oh, yes. Oh, yes. They're good mugs. No, no, yes.

Hold on. Hold on. Stay there. Stay there. right out yes there it is look at that so it says yeah thank you for allowing me to be inside of you see that's a nice little it's a nice little mug I'll send you one and a good size too like not too high like that's great right it's a good mug I'm appreciative you're what is this dad

thank you for allowing me to be inside of you what the hell is it it's some podcast I do I promise this guy I do his podcast again it's not gonna happen dude I love you buddy thanks so much for coming on and good luck with everything and be safe and healthy and happy. Good talk. Good talk. All right, buddy. All right, buddy.

There you have it. Great guy, right? Really good dude. And, you know, I like when people are so forthcoming and open. And it's not always easy. It's not easy to get guests, too. It's hard. I do all of them on my own.

I get every guest that you've heard is 99. 99% is because I just call someone who knows so-and-so. And, you know, I think they're skeptical, usually. And then they do it. And they like it, which makes me. feel good because I want people to enjoy the show. I want people that are my guests who enjoy the show. That's why I've had Dan Cook a few times and McNamara and Stephen Amel and Tom Welling and Zach Levi and, you know, it's nice. And I try to just, I try to, it's not

that I try to make my show different. I just don't listen to other podcasts, not because I just don't want to be influenced in a certain way. I just want to do what I do. And if people like it, they like it. I just want to talk to people openly, candidly, as you know. And thanks again to my sponsors. Really great stuff. Fair Harbor and Fields, obviously, when the advertisers do well, they like me and they stay on board. These guys have a lot of quality stuff,

so you might want to check out Feels. Helps me sleep that CBD stuff. And Fair Harbor, I wear these shorts. I'm wearing them now. I mean, every day, I don't know how many times I have to tell you. All right, here's the folks that really support the podcast. There's some of them, and they do it in a major way, and I wouldn't do it or wouldn't be able to do it.

do it without you guys. So thank you a million times. Nancy D. Mary B. Leah S. Tricia F. Sarah V. U. Kiko. J. Jill E. Brian H. Lauren G. Nico P. Barry L. Although I always say that, but it's Barry I, isn't it? Sue me, Barry. Come on, Barry. You're the only Barry. Can I just say Barry? Angelina G. Lee. Jerry Wood. Kevin R. Emily K. Bob B. Robert B. Jason W. Kristen K. Amelia O. Allison L. Jason D. Raj. Raj. He's a patron on both patrons. I have.

The horror one, too. Many of these folks aren't. Joshua D. Emily S. C.J.P. Samantha M. Hamza. B. Jennifer B. Stacey B. Carly T. Ream. Jennifer S. Janelle B. Tabitha C. Kimberly E. Melissa C. Mike E.

Jake M. Marissa N. N. Nilell. Jack Slater. Judith D. Ramira. Beth. B. Chris F, Sarah F, Chad W, Leanne P, Darla, we're almost done, Darla W, Jackie P, Rodrigo S, Ration C, Ray A, Maya, P, Megan D, DeMario, Jennifer C, Maddie S, Tiffany L, Kendrick F, Ashley E, Kelly W, Margie M, Sigourney P, hi, Tom T, Matt W, and Belinda N, so there you go, there are the patrons. Thanks again. Please tell everybody to subscribe. And here's a little fan letter I'll leave with you. And I thought this was kind of sweet.

They're always sweet. And look, they had a picture there. A picture of the person that I met at a convention. All right, this is from Rosemary. I never listened to podcasts before until the beginning of last year. I kept seeing on Michael's social

media pages about it. And I finally had a day to check it out, and I was hooked. His podcast has helped me get through a really tough time, especially since I was an abusive relationship. And some of the guests have gone through the same thing made me feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who's been in that situation too. I don't like even talking about it either because of how emotional it is, especially for me. God, I'm crying too while I'm writing this email. Don't cry. Besides that, I can also relate to Michael, especially when he talks about losing his grandpa on Thanksgiving last year too and it goes on I just wanted to share

some of that obviously she's she's been through a lot rosemary were with you um it's all how we we deal with it isn't it's all how the people around us rise to the occasion and that's when you really know who your friends are the people that are always trying to get into your life and stay in your life more importantly stay in your life I just see people who are trying to get into your life that's kind of weird if you don't know them right but rosemary there's a lot of love i give you a lot of love you know and um again i'm not a a physician so i just try to speak from the heart and talk to my guests and hopefully you got obviously got something out of it and that means the world so thank you everyone for listening

um i hope you have a great week um so many great guests coming up kevin conroy down the road you know that man justice league unlimited um So stick around, man. Keep looking. We also have, you know, I might just interview the Justice League Unlimited. The whole cast might happen. Also, a reminder, make sure you go to YouTube and subscribe on the inside of you podcast on YouTube, trying to get those listens up and those views and you get to watch it.

And so it's a lot of fun. So there you go. So, hey, thank you. Thanks to my producer, Bryce, who is so fun to work with and easy to work with and really helps me out. I'm alone, man. I'm alone here. I don't have a wife or anything. and Ryan who does all the edits

he's fantastic and I miss him all right love you guys remember the patrons Inside of you Patreon just go to patreon.com and look for Insidey with Michael Rosenbaum and also on Patreon where have all the good horror movies gone with John Heeter and myself talking about

horror movies and it's a lot of fun inside of you online store my favorite charities don't forget those we just raised a bundle of money for the Ronald McDonald's house thank you Tom Welling thank you Kristen Krug thank you amazed Thank you, Amy Mallon. I love that we made so much money for them.

And families still need food and support. I just donated a dinner to them last week. So it's nice, and I hope foodonfoot.org, helping the homeless, best organization out there. So thank you, Echoes of Hope, Animal Rescue Mission for saving animals. Hugs and kisses. My uncle Warren has a wonderful foundation. You can also listen to him if you want to listen. and he has the pet show.

Tell him, I sent you. And he's fantastic. Heart of gold, man. Heart of gold. He loved to live just on an island with animals. You know, I'm sure there's a lot of you out there. There's my Warriors vest from the movie over there. You can't see it, maybe in the wide shot.

Thank you for the gifts, too. You know, I get gifts and things. I have the left-on-loral embroidered thing over there. People send me some cool stuff. And patrons, your merch boxes are on the way. Every four months, they get a big box for me. So all that stuff. I think that's about it.

All right. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stackin' Benjamins podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do.

Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody.

We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's, follow and listen on your favorite platform.