Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - TOM ELLIS: Saving Lucifer, Frustration with Lack of Support & Impostor Syndrome On Set

Episode Date: January 9, 2024

❤️ Tom Ellis’ new film ‘Players’ comes out Valentines Day on Netflix (save the date!) Tom Ellis (Lucifer, Miranda) joins us this week to give his uniquely ironic experience in this industry - going from growing up in a family of baptist ministers to playing the lead in the hit series Lucifer. Tom talks about overcoming impostor syndrome while filming certain episodes and shares the crazy story of how a rogue tweet helped save the show from being cancelled. We also talk about adopting an American dialect, his background in theater with James McAvoy, and his issue with actors using social media. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🧠 Neurohacker: https://neurohacker.com/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Happy New Year. I'm an unoriginal bastard, but I'm saying it. Happy New Year. Everybody says happy new. Happy New Year, Michael. I mean, what else are you going to say? I guess what are you going to do?

We're back. We're back, which means thanks to you guys and the support that you've given us. If you're here for Tom Ellis, stick around. And I hope you don't fast forward stuff and you enjoy the interview and you follow us. uh and uh subscribe our socials are ryan uh at inside of you pod on twitter yes at inside of podcast on instagram and facebook that's true that's true and if you want to support the podcast more there's patron p a t r e o n patreon patreon dot com slash inside of you to support the podcast like all these patrons have done ryan uh without them without patrons my lovable patrons who get their

name shouted out at the end of every episode and get a lot of perks and prizes and things and love and not notes without them i wouldn't be here and this is uh really um i really appreciate you guys um so happy new year a lot has has happened you went off to hawaii yep that's where i had my holidays you had your holidays which were a mix of probably a fun stress and uh you know but at the end of the day it is uh it's why i got to go in the ocean on new year's day why not why not Hawaii not great who I'm not you were in the desert yes yeah I was I had back surgery during the holidays um on the 18th I believe of December and it's been rough and um you know my surgeon thinks everything's fine so I'm not worried but you know you saw how swollen I am and it's like I have

a tail back there or something it's pretty rough so I'm just trying to go with the flow and waking up is not easy uh then i start to feel better and i go in stages but um anyway i'm just glad i can walk and hopefully things will will continue to ameliorate become better word of the year we're ready word of the year folks ameliorate already doing it ameliorate um i hope you guys had a wonderful holiday i really do and um thanks for making this podcast, your podcast or one of your podcasts that you listen to. It means the world to me. We've got great guests.

You didn't get to hear the Canter Reeves dog star episode or we've had so many great ones, Jennifer Love Hewitt. We've got Tom Ellis today from Lucifer who was just wonderful, had him in the house, and it was fun. He's a tall guy. Didn't realize he was that tall.

Oh, Tommy Ellis. Tommy, you're tall, buddy. But thank you so much for everything and want to give a little reminder. Kristen Ritter is going to be live with me, live podcast at the Regent Theater, downtown Los Angeles, December, and I believe that's December 20 or sorry, January 24th, January 24th, Kristen Ritter and me live. There's VIP tickets available. Go to my link tree in my Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum. Get tickets. It's going to be so

much fun. I'm going to get one of those t-shirt guns where you shoot t-shirts out to people like last time. Like last time. It almost hurt someone. It's a dangerous thing. It is, but I'm very careful. For as much fun as it is. I'm careful. Yeah, you wore goggles. I was careful. So you were safe. Can't say much for everyone in the front row, but you were safe. But have a cocktail. Watch a live podcast. There's Q&A. There's VIP meet and greet before the show. And get tickets. It's now on my link tree at the Michael Rosenbaum on Instagram. And by the way, there's tons of cool merch on the inside of you online store. And I know this is probably a little longer of an intro, but it's the beginning of the year.

So you can listen to it. Send in a lot of patron boxes today, by the way. So I'm going to write a lot of notes to people of thank you notes because that's what the top tiers get. They get a box from me with goodies every couple of months, right? Nice. Yeah, yeah, that's right. They also get a bonus episode, which we put on Patreon. which you and I are going to do after this.

Yes, we are. Yes. So that's it, really. That's all I have. The inside of you online store, great merch, small of those stuff, scripts, blah, blobly, blah, blah. A lot of special guests coming up. We got Katie Sack off. We got, you know who we got?

Edward Furlong. Yes. Boy, did he open up, man. Oh, man. I loved Eddie. Eddie Furlong. He was really good. we have a lot of great guests coming up i can't even tell you how many awesome guests are coming so

stay tuned uh it's going to be a great year it's going to be great year for you i know it so just try to do uh you know treat yourself right be good to yourself and try to be healthier and happier and be good to yourself all that stuff right let's just try it's i'm stifling a burp but yes you know stifle the burp man stifle or let it out but there you go let it go uh that's it man let's get into it. Lots to talk about with Tom Ellis. Let's get inside of Tom Ellis. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. So the coffee's good. I made just some coffee. Yes, thank you very much. In a Cheech and Chong mug as well, which is.

You're a pro You're Welsh Well you're born in Wales I was born in Wales And I am When it comes to rugby Welsh And I you know

I say that I'm Welsh But I moved from From Cardiff Into England When I was like two years old Because my dad was a pastor So we moved around A fair amount

When I was a kid Yeah what's that about Like I read that your sister Your uncle Your dad are all Baptist ministers That's correct Yeah are they still uh my dad is retired my uncle is retired now and my sister uh is no longer doing that

but she still attends the same church that she was a pastor at but they had to make some changes during covid is that pretty religious baptist minister is that like i i feel like look i'm like i'm not very religious at all so i i you know i believe in god but i don't know what's the most religious or where on that spectrum is the extremeness of it Yeah. Well, I mean, I think Baptist in the States means something very different. When people think about Baptist, they think about the Southern Baptist movement, which is, you know, evangelical kind of like, you know, falling on the floor and having big loud songs. Praise Jesus.

Throw people in the, yeah. All of that stuff. And that isn't what the Baptist Church in the UK was like. The Baptist Church in the UK was much more like a conservative, you know, my Sunday morning would be going, most people would be dressed in suits, that we'd be singing hymns to an organ. And, you know, we got a bit progressive during my time there. Really? My mom started a music group where we played, you know, we had electric guitars. I played the drums.

My mom was a pianist and a flute player. Is your mom with us? Yes, yes. She is with you. Yes. Yeah. That's good. She is.

That'd be very awkward. Awkward if it was. Yeah, no, but basically, yeah, it was not the kind of connotation of Baptist that we know over in the States. very much sort of um i mean i for want of a better word it was quite boring was it yeah were you were did they tolerate cursing not particularly there was not a lot of cursing in my house when i was growing up no no nothing you couldn't even say damn could you i mean i could say stuff like that but i certainly wouldn't say if i said oh my god that would get frowned upon i think that changed i think my parents sort of evolved as well as we got older yeah but i think to start with and certainly

you know thinking about my dad's parents uh his mom in particular I think you're very strict in terms of like what you could and couldn't say and how you should be as a person. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I couldn't even say she in regards to my mother, in reference to my mother. If I go, well, she's saying, we don't refer to your mother as she. I'm like, well, her, no, we don't use pronouns. A phrase in our house.

If you said she, my mom would go, who's she? The cat's mother? It was like this weird little thing that she would say. Anyway. So were you guys, was there a lot of discipline? plan or you like it was you know uh you know was it was it was it more a liberal like you know wasn't spanking because i was spanked as a kid yeah no we didn't we didn't ever have that at all no rulers on the knuckles none of that no i mean my parents were i felt like my parents

was strict to a certain point but again as you know i've got a twin sister and we've got an elder sister who's a couple years older than me and then my younger sister is a couple years younger than me and my twin and i think as we sort of like hit our teenage years one thing my parents did do is they encouraged us to be independent. Right. Um, and through that independence, we started mixing with other people, you know, not in the circles and my parents would mix in. And I think through that process, they kind of like slackened the reins, as it were. And they, they evolved with us. So I, you know, I, I mean, I would go out drinking when I was like 15, 16. And that was okay. I'd go to the pub. I mean, it's not like they condoned it,

but they also didn't stop me from doing it. You know, I was not, we, Like, I had friends that would get grounded. You know that phrase over here? Is that the term you used grounded? You're grounded for two weeks. It's like, oh, yeah. We never had any of that at all. It was, it was, I think that they just installed in us a trust that we would do the right

thing in any situation would be in. Yeah, you seem like a, like, you know, I heard this from, like, of course, I text Tom Welling. Mm-hmm. And I had, God, God. What did he say? Amy Garcia. And, I mean, it was just like, you know, honestly, I was like, Tom, come on.

Like, this guy. that nice it's like like i hope if someone asked about me you'd be like he's great he's giving he's got a big heart but you know he could be a little bit of a dick sometimes i mean we could all be dicks but like nothing like like amy said something like he would breeze through scenes like a dance i mean she's very poetic great singer and dancer total showman contagious laugh never broke character i'm the opposite that's all i kept thinking is like yeah well i've I mean, I always would goof around and stuff. And when the camera, when they'd say action, I'm very into it.

But I would break and stuff like that. And she said, even though he was in every scene doing stunts, rehearsing songs, emotional scenes, he always made time to dance with me in between takes. Is that true? Do you remember that? Yeah, I do. And not that I made time for her, it's that Amy, if anyone knows Amy. I do.

They know that she's a little bit like a little kid that's like pulling on your sleeve going, let's do some, let's do some. And that was kind of like her energy, you know, in between scenes. I found a way to kind of like, I guess, amuse that or kind of indulge that, which was to which was to learn dances with her for no specific reason. There was no kind of like end of show, like we're going to do a show and tell of the dance moves we're doing. We just would learn some choreography for the sake of it.

We didn't have to do it for the show at one point. And that was like, we felt like two competition winners. It was brilliant. So you're a dancer. I mean, I was never formally trained in dancing, but we did a bit of it at drama school. And it's always something that I have enjoyed, I guess. I mean, I'm, I guess I've got rhythm because I was a drummer and a musician growing up. Is it natural to you?

Did you pick it up pretty quickly? It's pretty natural to me, yeah. Because when you start at a young age, it's a lot easier, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But I'm not like, it's not like I'm like fully disciplined in dance, but I can pick it up. Like, if I was to do one of those shows where they teach you to dance for a few weeks. You could do it.

I probably could do it. Like dancing with the stars. Yeah, except I would never do that. No, I was approached quite heavily in the UK to do their version of it. We'll give you lots of money, which they don't. No, they don't give you lots of money. And it's just, no, I just, I would love to do it if there was no TV cameras there. I would love to have that one-on-one training and that kind of, you know, learn that discipline.

That would be amazing? Because you're, would you say you're a bit of an introvert or a shy person with like, you know, you could be fun and all these things, but are you sort of a private person? I've gotten more private as I've gotten older. I think that I think that I'm an extrovert because I get energy I get energized from other people my wife and my mum think that I am an extroverted introvert I don't know I mean I feel like I've certainly changed as I've gotten older

being in the public eye as well like the more you're in the public eye the less you want to give because you just feel like everyone just wants a piece of you and things like social media and stuff, it's just, you're constantly putting yourself out there. And, you know, with kids and other things in my life,

I'm like, I don't want to be so transparent anymore. I do miss the days. I remember growing up and going to drama school and stuff, and people used to talk about the most wonderful gift for an actor was to have anonymity, because then people can buy into any character that you're playing. And these days,

it seems to have been a seismic shift the other way where it's like you're doing, you know, you're in a show or you're doing a film and they want you to be on social media all the time, push, push, push, push, push, but not in the character in the film, but as you. And you feel like you're giving that away. I feel like, yeah, you're giving away your tricks, basically.

You're giving away your energy. The thing that you bring to a character is unique to what you have inside of you. And the more you give of yourself, I feel like the less people can make that differentiation. Right. But like, for example, people have a hard time, if I play an American character.

Not because my dialect's bad, I think, but mainly because they think, oh, it's weird because you're British and we're used to you talking in a certain way and I just can't do that thing. It's like, for me, that's a frustrating kind of reaction because it's like, but I'm an actor. So my job is to embody whoever it is I'm playing

and for you to believe that. Yeah, because in the old days, I mean, I'm talking like early 2000s before cell phones. If they saw an English actor playing a role, they don't know if he's English. They don't know if he's American. They don't. So there's a mystery of it all. Yeah. But with social media, it's kind of, it's erased that mystery. And all my cards are out on the table. I mean, Jesus, man,

everybody's like, oh, yeah, it's Rosenbaum. And all he's doing an English accent. Not very good, brother. You know, so yeah, I can understand that. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money, period. It's Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. This is just a wonderful app.

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365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. And a lot of people will say that the, what's the word, like, you know, the old school actors, They're the old, you know, the Harrison Ford's, the real movie stars. There aren't many around anymore.

No. Do you agree with that? I do, actually, to a certain extent. And the weird thing is that the stars, the movie stars, don't tend to have an awful lot of range within their performances, apart from a select few that would be known as character actors. Right. But like people like Tom Cruise, who I think is still one of the few movie stars out there now,

Brad Pitt, you know, they're very similar in what. you can see Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt, you kind of know what you're going to get, but you don't care because they're a fucking star. Right. And then you get the kind of tear down from that. And that used to be that you could play whatever role was given to you. But now it seems like people, if they know too much about you, they have a real hard time buying into that range. Yeah. I guess that could be a little upsetting. Do you do a lot of dialects? Like a lot of, I mean, because your, you know, born in Wales, moved to Cardiff. I mean, what are the ones that you have, if you could jump into for a role at any time, you think? The UK is quite an interesting place.

Such a small place, there's so many different dialects. And you're talking about like moving 20 miles up the road and the dialect has changed. Crazy. And so, you know, growing up in that sort of melting pot, uh, it was, it was a skill, I guess, that I had. Um, and I realized when I got to drama school, not everyone had that same skill. And I think it's like a musical ear or something. Good ear, yeah. Yeah, but it's just, yeah, a dialect work is something I've always done, you know. When I did my first kind of like big roll out here, I was American in it.

Were you nervous about it at all? I was to a certain extent, but I was also in a sort of, it's a bit like sport. It's a confidence-based industry. Yeah. And so I had just literally finished doing a play in London where it was an American play and it was part of this American family in the play. And we had an American director, an American dialect coach. And so I very much felt confident about being American at that moment in time. And so when this audition came up, I had to make a tape for it, I didn't have those qualms.

I didn't have those self-doubt things. I just kind of went for it. and then subsequently got the role and then made a decision that the younger me would have gone oh my god you've turned into one of those actors but actually I appreciate now why I did it when we were shooting I get picked up in the morning and dropped off at night

and from the moment I got picked up to the moment I got dropped off I would stay in dialect I'd still be Tom yeah to a certain extent I wouldn't be the character but I kept the American dialect up because it was easier for me to do that to then not

think to then not be judging myself like i sort of was a bit like oh you're a bit of a dick for a few days for doing this but actually it works for me it works on my behalf and and it made the job easier for me in that regard right where am i from right now when you're dealing with an industry like this you have to have a great ego and francis four coppola has an ego the size of san francisco so you are from america doing an english Wait, wait, let me do it better. When you're dealing with an industry like this, you have to have a great ego. Is that it better at all?

That is actually. Your dialect there is kind of like London, around the London area. Yeah, you're right. See? That's Gary Oldman in an interview once. Yeah. I don't try to do the English accent. That's good, though.

Yeah, if I could just stay there. Yeah, I mean, I'll use that as your starting point. Because I feel like a lot of American actors that I've worked with when they try and do a British accent, they fail miserably. Why? That's the thing I can't understand. Because, you know what is? Maybe they're trying to do a different voice and not their own.

I think that's what it is. Because if I'm like talking like this, I should just talk, you know, talk like this, like I'm talking. But if I start going, yeah, everything is like this now and I'm talking like the, I'm a different person. It becomes like a caricature as opposed to that being that person. I always remember about that play that I was doing before I came over here, the American, the American director at one point about two, weeks into rehearsals. It was like, guys, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Okay, you all have to stop being British actors with American dialect. And you have to start being American. And we were like, whoa, what on earth does that mean? And he was, he went on to explain that, you know,

it's not just about putting on a voice. It's about, you know, certainly Americans compared to British, it's an attitude difference. There's a kind of like, there's an overall energy the way you articulate and gesticulate and stuff it it's not just about doing a voice what's a what's a word or something that it's the way if you ever watch your performance you go i heard something in oh let me think about i heard i heard a little english there's a few there's a few ones one is the um ean is in so like i've i've been here americans i've been here i've been here but the bean in the bin is a big giveaway for me uh you've done that before i've done that before i've been picked up on it i remember a voice coach picking me up on it

I was like, God, I remember that one, got to remember that one. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Sure is a kind of thing, because you can also say sure. Sure. Sure.

But sure and sure. Two ones that you can use, but you've got to be consistent with the one you're doing. Right. I'm trying to think of it's up in my head. But those are good ones. Yeah. Can you do an Irish accent pretty easily? Yeah.

Where from? Northern or Southern? Northern So your man from Belfast there I had a couple of mates from Belfast when I was at Glasgow And you know It's all up in here

And up in your loud Yeah up there you know And your man over there It's like really putting on things like that You know In Scotch It's more from the back of your throat Scots

Scots is back there Glasgow is all back there And the difference between like Glasgow On the West Coast And Edinburgh on the East Coast Edinburgh's a wee bit more sing-songy So a wee bit more like floaty in the clouds And stuff like that, you know

You can, eh Whereas Glasgow's like fucking down here And, you know, people talking to each other And he's fucking seeing you, you big wank You sheep stealing hood and bastard Exactly Who's your favourite actors growing up So

There's probably two or three, right? I would say Ken Branner Without a Shadow of a Day He was someone that made Shakespeare make sense for me, which was a big deal when I was at school because we had, you know, we had to do it as English literature as part of our, you know, basic schooling in the UK. And I remember reading Romeo and Juliet when I was like 13, going, what on earth is everyone on about?

I just didn't have a clue. And then I remember he did a movie of much ado about nothing. And I watched it. It was him and Emma Thompson playing Benedict and Beatrice. And they were just... So Kenneth Bran, Brant, you used to do. Did you see Branagh? Brana, yeah.

Brana. Branna. I used to say an American. I was like, Kenneth Branick is a really good actor. Brannig. Brannig's a really good. He pronounced the A-U-G-H-Branig. Is it like Laura Branigan?

Remember Laura Brandigan, the singer? No, who's that? She's saying, um, Gloria, Gloria. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think they got. That was Laura Brand again. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah. So, him, Branagh. Ken Brannner, for sure. I just, I just, his ease on, like, on screen. And I think that's the thing. about actors that I like. You feel at ease in their company when you're watching them. Have you worked with

them? I've never worked with him. Have you met him? Never met him. You'd love that. I would love it. I would love it. I think he's wonderful and again, a proper actor, incredible range. You see him play other parts. You see him play he's just brilliant to everything he does. Tom Hanks.

Big influence on me. I just I loved him, loved watching him, loved all his movies. And then And as I sort of evolved and started to think about acting myself, there's a stage actor in the UK, he's now done a lot of screen work called Mark Rylands, who was just unbelievable when you watch him on stage. Mark Rylands. Unbelievable. He's in, I think the most famous thing he's done over here was probably Bridge of Spies. With Tom Hanks. With Tom Hanks, yeah. And I know the writer of that movie, actually, and we were chatting about it. I was like, you were on set with Tom Hanks and

Mark Rylands. What was it like? He said, I was literally pinching myself every day. I couldn't believe it. But I think those, certainly those three people. And then, you know, actresses wise, I think Emma Thompson, I've always loved. Brilliant. Always, always loved her. And of course, Dame Merrill Streep. Oh. Or Judy Dench. Or Judy Dench. But I love Judy Dench. But you like Merrill Street. I remember watching Kramer versus Kramer for the first time. Both of them in that movie were just electric. Yeah, that was. Now, you say these are all your favorite actors actresses i think actors you just say actors now don't but do you like would you be nervous working with them and do you get nervous while you're

working do you get the nerves are you so confident that you're you don't you learn you learn lines easy you uh is the the process or process as the canadian say i mean do you like is it do you still get nerves do you still get nervous about stuff for sure i mean i think the biggest gift that happened in the last few years to me was doing the show Lucifer and being that character for like six, seven years and going to that same set every time. And time on set was just like priceless. It is. And I think that, you know, that certainly took my confidence to a different place. I didn't feel like, I think there's a lot of imposter syndrome that happens in acting. I know. And I used to feel that all the time. Because you

you go from job to job to job to job, and every time you start a job, I think my biggest pressure that I would have on myself is, I just want the other actors in this to think I'm a good actor. Yeah. And I think I still, you know, I think every actor still probably has that. Yeah. But if you've been, if you're going back to a place repeatedly, you lose that. And you just sort of, I don't want to use the word autopilot, but you go into a comfort zone

where you know the character so well that you are not second guessing any choices. and you're just you're just doing and being which is the perfect state to act in right but the second you get another part that's different it starts over again we had a weird experience actually on the penultimate season of lucifer because i played they asked me to play my twin brother in it as well um and so i was you know trying to sort of make some differences between these characters um with a small amount of time that i had to kind of change your voice i did well i gave me an American dialect. I changed this physicality slightly. And I remember, like, being on the set, and I, you know, all these people I worked with for five years, and then I had to do this

character for the first time. And that's when I felt like the imposter syndrome kicking in. Because I was like, you get the tingle. People are not going to buy this. You know, lots of self-doubt. But thankfully, people that around me that I knew were not judging me specifically. And I just, you know, you just have to go for it in those circumstances. Yeah, were you, I hadn't felt like that for a long time. Really? I just think, you know, in this household and growing up at the church and all these things, but again, progressive, you know, and you were playing music and all that.

Were your parents, A, surprised that you went into theater? Were they a little bit worried about it? Do they, were they, that you have their blessings? How did they feel was your dad hoping you'd get more into the church? I think my dad probably realized very early on in my life that I, I was not going to follow in his footsteps. Because you told him. Yeah, basically.

I'm not doing this. Because it used to be a question I was asked a lot by people. Oh, are you going to follow in your father? Are you going to be a man of the cloth and all those things? I was like, no, that's not for me. But I weirdly, I didn't sort of, I stumbled across acting really at the end of my high schooling. I was really into sport and I played lots of different sports. Cricket?

I was into cricket, rugby, football. When you see football, you mean soccer. I mean, yeah. I mean, I just want to clarify for the Americans out there. Not the pigskin. Right, right. But and I just, you know, I knew that I wasn't good enough at the sports that I played to pursue them, but I still wanted to be involved in that kind of realm. And I decided that I was going to get into physiotherapy. And, you know, if I can't get on the pitch as a player, I can get on the pitch to help a player. So, wow. And, and then I got to the end of my high schooling in the UK. The last two years in the UK is called sixth form and you do what they call A levels, which is like you choose three subjects that basically are sort of funneling your education towards what you want to do at university or tertiary education. Most of the time that changes.

Of course. And so I took these three subjects and one of them was history because I'd really enjoyed it in my previous years at school. And about two or three weeks into it, I just was like, I don't, I'm not enjoying this at all. this is not the place I want to be at. So I dropped it and then my six-form tutors were like, well, you have to do a third subject. So what are you going to do?

And I really didn't know. And then my old English teacher, Claire, came... Mr. Clare? No, Miss Clare Pender. Oh, Clare Pender. Oh, Clare Pender. Who's a big hero of my life. She came and found me in the Sixth Form Common Room.

And she was like, Tom, I've heard you looking for a new subject. I'm running the theatre studies class. and I've got 12 girls and one boy at the moment. I need boys. And I was like, well, how many girls? I'm in. I'm in. And you're going on a bonding weekend away in a week's time.

Brilliant. So I, for all the wrong reasons, like, thought, oh, I'll have a go at that. And I went to start doing these theatre study classes. And all of a sudden, it felt like a glove that fit me. And I just was really enjoying classes. You know, I wasn't particularly successful with any of the girls, but I had a great time working with them and all of that stuff. And I just really got into it.

And then Claire, Pender, again, they were doing a school play that year. And I'd never done a school play before. And she wanted to cast me in the lead role for it. What role? It was John the Witch Boy in a play called Dark of the Moon that was set in the Appalachian Mountains. Wow. I'm guessing this was not a comedy. No, no, it wasn't.

it wasn't um and it and uh and uh and i played this this witch boy john who fell in love with a girl called barbara allen um barbara allen uh and um and from doing that a friend of mine's mom who used to be an actress came to see the play and she called me the day after she came to see it and she said i saw you in the play last night i really think you should think about doing this as a profession so um her And Claire, my drama teacher, both kind of really encouraged me to audition for drama school. You buy a pair of socks, that's two socks. You buy a pair of Bomba socks, that's four socks.

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London. And do you want to come to the audition? So I was like, well, that sounds fun. And by this point, you know, the bug had really bitten me. And I was like, okay, I'll give that a go. And I went to audition for this thing. And I got a place, which was like, you know, really good going, basically, at that stage in my very early career. And I went down to London that summer for like three weeks and just met loads of people, all who wanted to do the same thing, all like mind. I just had the best time. I became a Thespian. I became a Thespian.

You were a Thespian. And, you know, from that, you know, loads of these people were either already at drama school or auditioning for drama school the next year. And that was the thing that really spurred me on and said, right, that's what I'm going to do in an audition for it. And then Claire Pender spoke to my parents and said, I really think, you know, you should encourage Tom to go and do this because I think he's got a real chance. And they did.

They paid for me my train fare to get to all these little auditions around the country. Did you book any? And I got, yeah, I got in. I got into the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama in Glasgow. And that's where it all, you know, I did three years there. And then it kind of like seamlessly segued into starting to work. And it was really weird. Once I'd sort of decided I wanted to be an actor and lots of actors will hate me for this,

it was kind of seamless. You know, I'm going to agree with you with me. It really was. It was, I finally found something that people responded and, liked what I was doing and it felt good this instant gratification immediate. I felt like

I'm doing something right for the first time of my life. Not being me is the way to go. And it just kept going from there. And I felt it probably my junior senior year in college when I was doing a lot of I felt it. And I remember telling

Alexis Combs or sitting on her doorstep. And she goes, are you nervous about going in New York, you know, Bob, and I said, I want you to remember this conversation. I'm going to make it. And I know you're thinking, oh, everybody says that. Oh, another, you know, I'm going to make it, this, this. I go, no, no, no, no, just watch.

I just see it. I see it. Yeah. I could feel it. There was a certain energy that I had that I didn't care about the statistics of who makes it and who doesn't. I just, I wish I had that. now. But it was just so, I was so determined, but so confident in whatever ability I had at

the time. And it was crazy. And did you feel that a little too? I did. Yeah, no, I did. And it's a strange kind of, it's almost like having a faith. It's almost like being really kind of religious about, you know, whatever religion you're into. But like, having that comfort, having that kind of like overwhelming feeling that everything's going to be all right with the decision that you've made. It's rare. It is rare. It is rare. And I don't know where it came from, I don't know what it was, but I do know that I always had that feeling. And even when I started acting, I always had this feeling that I was going to work.

And, you know, it's a weird coming from the country that I come from because people were probably accused of being arrogant for saying something like that. But it wasn't that, it wasn't about arrogance. It was about self-belief and confidence. Self-believe. Because the thing is, if you are going to go into this ridiculously competitive industry, you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe that what you have is unique and what you can offer is different to everybody else.

And it doesn't make you right or wrong or better or worse, but it's unique. And that's the thing that you have to really kind of hold on to. It's the hardest thing to hold on to when you're being rejected constantly. Yeah. But at the same time, if you're not going to back you, then no one else is. Were you one of those actors or in the beginning where you're like, I just love acting? I want to do theater. I don't care about it because there's a lot of, I don't want to do TV or movies.

Or were you sort of like, because I was always like, I want to be in the movies. I want to, I love theater. I did theater. And then I was like, wow, TV's kind of fun. Movies are fun. I just, and I never went back to the theater. Yeah. Because it's, it's tedious.

It's really like, you know, you do eight shows a week. And for me, it'd be my nerves on edge all day, every day. And I just don't think, you know, that's how much I put into it and how much I thought about it all the time. But were you someone who wanted to just act, whatever it was? I mean, certainly my early experiences were only on stage, and like going into drama school, it was just about that. It was about doing theatre, different types of theatre, but like theatre. And then towards the end of the course, you know, you'd get the odd person that would come in and you'd do a day's workshop talking about working on in front of camera and stuff.

And it's so ridiculous looking back at it, because the reality is if you go to drama school, when you come out of drama school, probably about at least 75% of your work is going to be on screen. and I hadn't really thought about that side of it I know that I loved theatre but I was really open to all of it I remember someone coming into drama school to like to just talk to us as final year students and saying your first couple of years out of here take whatever comes in your direction don't be picky don't be this don't be that just take what comes and and it's exactly what I did and I learned you know that I enjoy working on camera I enjoy being on set and I still love going to the theatre and I still love being part of a play

and as the years have gone on I've done probably three professional plays in nearly 25 years and the rest of it has been camera work and that's not necessarily by choice because one thing I do know is that I will always go back to the theatre

I'm at a stage now where I'm like plotting when that's going to happen next but for me as an actor I kind of feel like theatre is like rehab for acting when you've done a lot of work on set and on screen you know things like the rehearsal room and that space for like four weeks it feels like a gift these days

because you have zero rehearsal time when you're certainly when you're doing a TV show you rehearse on the day and then you know for like 20 minutes and then you show it to a crew and it's like this is how we're doing it and you have to have made a lot of choices and decisions and things before you even got there whereas that exploratory sort of you know going into the rehearsal room finding things trying things out building it all from the ground up and then presenting it um and then having the immediate audience you know gratification

if you're in a comedy getting a laugh it's like the biggest thing in the world and i love that side of it absolutely but then i remember the grind i remember like doing it the eight shows a week and you know you're in a theater production you're like Jesus how long we got left another six weeks it is how am I going to do that day and day out yeah so you know like every actor never pleased never never never never fully satisfied yeah but I love all of it and I'm glad that I started in the theater yeah that's good anybody you worked with or went to school with um have they had success oh sure I've been my best friend at drama or one of I sort of a circle of very tight friends at drama school

but one of them was James McAvoy. Oh, wow. I don't know if you've heard of him. Yes, I've heard of James McAvoy. And we're still, you know, really good mates. We don't see each other as much as we used to because, you know, we live in different sides of the world. But you acted with him on stage.

Oh, yeah. I did my first ever professional gig with James, which was a pantomime, sorry, in Kerkade, in Faith, in Scotland. It was our final year of drama school, and the drama school were doing a pantomime because that's a big thing in the UK. And but they said to any final year students, if you want to audition for any professional Pantos, you're allowed to do that. So James and I both auditioned for this Panto, Beauty and the Beast. And we both got it. And so it was a musical. Pantos have always got music in them. Yeah, Pantos. I didn't know. And they've always got like, they've always got like stock characters in them. Whatever the story is that year, it's always a fairy tale. Do you still remember the songs, the music, all that?

If I were a bell, which is from, I can't remember which musical that's from originally. But that was in R1. I remember my song that I had to do was a house is not a home. A chair is still a chair. Burt Bacharach. House is not a home. Is that right? A chair is still a chair.

Even if there's no one sitting there. That's amazing. And yeah. So weird. Did you always have that like ear for like being on key? Is that something that you're born with? because I, a lot of times I have a band and Sunspin. And, you know, I'll say, you know, a home is not a home.

And my, Rob will go, off key, smile. Smile when you're saying, a home is not a home. Not in every line. Why are you doing any English accent? A home is not a home. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But I have to work at it and I have to really learn.

I don't have that ear. I could sort of, I sort of do. Well, I wouldn't say I wouldn't say I've got perfect pitch by any stretch to the imagination but I you know my mom was a music teacher and so we all in my family you know music was around us all the time and we were for want of a better word lumbered with instruments that our parents chose for us as we were growing up so I played I started on the cornet when I was five years old the cornet which is a small trumpet yeah and then moved up to the trumpet when my hands got a bit bigger and then this is giving insight to my parents they made an executive decision on my

behalf when I was nine years old that I should change from the trumpet to the French horn because it would give me more opportunities in life. Oh my God. That's how your parents. Oh my God. That's brilliant. So we believe the French horn is going to get you more work. Are you are you fucking crazy? Um, so yeah. So you did that. You played the French horn. You play the French horn. You play guitar to by the way. Yeah, I sort of self-taught guitarist, so I don't know the guitar in and out. Again, if my parents, if I go back and

my parents gave me a choice about instruments, knowing what I know now, I would say, guitar and piano. Stick me on nose, and the rest will take care of itself. Because I'm always envious of anyone that can sit at a piano and just start. I know I'd like to learn, but I think it's too late now, isn't it? I mean... To be a pianist. I just wanted to say

that word. It's too late to be a pianist. Um, it's ridiculous. It's too late to be a penis. It's too late. Who sings that song, actually? Uh, it's too late to come from my, uh, too late. Too late.

What was it? One republic. One republic. Nice, Ryan. Nice Ryan without a microphone. Thank you, Ryan. Um, thank you, Ryan. You really, I did yourself.

That's what I'm here for. Yeah. I'm projecting. Good. He's projected. He's got no microphone because he's private, Ryan. Yes, he's private Ryan. Yeah.

we go we should save him from the rest of this conversation saving private Ryan um I'm an idiot I like stupid jokes I like dad jokes I love dad jokes what's your favorite dad joke um two fish in a tank one says to the other say how do you drive this thing that's good yeah or my my my daughter my youngest daughter Marnie it's all got an incredible sense of humor she came back from a school camp the other way I've got to say this because it just made me laugh so much. She came back from a school camp the other week, and she said, Dad, I told that joke you told me years ago,

and the teachers loved it. And I was like, what was the joke? And she went, you know, what's the difference between a Range Rover and a hedgehog? With a hedgehog, the pricks are on the outside. I was like, you're talking about your teachers. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, they loved it.

Oh, so proud of her. The tricks are on the outside. It's so true. No, if you're driving a range. Yes, no, no, no, no. We've got to get into Lucifer a little bit. Okay. I mean, what a huge success and, like, a huge fan base.

Like, I remember watching that it was Netflix when Netflix took over. First of all, how rare is it for a show to where Fox said they didn't want to go on? And yet, they found a home at Netflix. That just doesn't happen. Usually a show's over. It's over. We'll take the five seasons and we'll air those. And they wanted another season out of it, right?

Well, we'd done, by that point, we'd done three seasons. Just three? Yeah, we'd done, and the first season was like, what they call it, like a half season. So it was 13 episodes. And then we did two of the full, you know, 22 episodes, biggies. And then they canceled it. How did you feel, by the way, when that happened? Oh, I honestly, I was gutted.

I was, I was at a fan convention in Rome, having the time of my life. And, like, having, you know, I had spent a whole weekend of people just, confessing their love for the show and like talking about the show and blah blah blah and I was thousands of miles from where we'd film this thing thinking my goodness isn't it strange that we'd like we've got this fan base is growing and growing and growing and growing and growing and then literally I was in the minibus on the way back

from the convention to the hotel we was staying at and I got a call from our showrunner saying that Fox had just cancelled the show and I was just I was crushed I like I was so like I was thrown I just didn't I didn't expect it to happen and I was I was yeah I was pretty devastated I'm not gonna lie did you have to do a Q&A after that no that was I so I'd just done I think I'd just done my last day God I know how are you to keep a straight face like yeah I hope it goes

forever too well the whole weekend had been about people going when are we going to hear about season four when we're going to hear about season four and I was like very soon very soon don't worry and then I got the call and it was like oh my god but how long after did you get the call saying hey they're trying to get this going well here's the weird thing so i i traveled back to london uh from rome and i was just you know gutted and i was talking to people on the phone and whatever and then i found out that that that was on like the monday or tuesday and i found out that fox still hadn't announced that they were going to cancel it yet um so we knew but no one else knew and then uh

And then someone tipped me off, I'm not going to say who, but someone tipped me off that Fox had planned to kind of bury the news of the cancellation by announcing something else at the same time, uh, that following weekend. Oh, well, there are a new show replacing this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And any, yeah, yeah. All of that. And I was, you know, I had a lot of emotion going on, a lot of these things. And I decided that I would take it upon myself to tweet that I had found out, the show had been cancelled, and I was absolutely gutted, and I'm sorry to everyone. And I did that... Good move.

I did that before the announcement. The announcement. Were they pissed? I don't fucking care. Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you, at the time... They fired you. Do you know what?

I pressed send on that tweet, and then I had a panic attack, because I thought, oh, my God, I've just, like, ruined everything and blah, blah, blah. Right. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true story. and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole.

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And I was just like, what have I done? Blah, blah, blah. And then I got my shit together And about an hour and a half later I went back to my phone and I looked at it And it had absolutely blown up But it had blown up In the most positive way possible.

And this kind of, I've said it before, there's like tsunami of love just came from around the world from all these people hundreds of thousands it was crazy and it didn't stop that was the thing about it

it just snowballed and snowballed and snowballed and snowballed and snowballed and snowballed and eventually I got a call later that weekend from a guy called Peter Roth who was head of Warner Bros. TV

who Warner Brothers was our studio and they made it for Fox and he said Tom like I want you to know we're not ignoring all this kind all this stuff that's happening on social media

we are going to try and do something about it and so I said what do you need me to do and he said can you get over here to LA you know just to keep keep it kind of keep stoking the fire as it was so I got on I got myself to Heathrow Airport

and then I got to Heathrow Airport I had a message from BBC Newsnight now if anyone knows that's big the UK there's the news and then BBC News Night is a nightly show that discusses the news

in a very, very kind of like intellectual, you know, articulate ways. Like 60 minutes. Yeah, basically. And they said that they had noticed that they had been, you know,

noticing what was happening on social media and blah blah about the show. Did I want to appear as a guest on the show to talk about that and to talk about television changing and all these things?

And I was like, absolutely. So I got to L.A. And then I ended up doing like a a studio bit back to London about this. And for the next kind of week and a half, two weeks, it just like this became like all I talked about and all people were asking me about.

And then, you know, a couple weeks later, I'd sort of been tips off from Peter that things were progressing well. And then we got the Netflix announcement. And it was the most vindicating, wonderful experience. And I didn't feel quite so bad about pressing send on that tweet. you single-handedly did that you single-handedly brought back the show i no i mean the the the crazy thing is that i i'd already i only knew from like three years of doing press for the show that it

really kind of started to spread that people were loving this show and not just in in the states but like everywhere i was going to and weirdly now when i look back at it lots of catholic countries all the countries around the world that are catholic are really into the show don't know why but there we go right um but um well they're fascinated by that kind of stuff they are yeah they're fascinated by that character and you know you know what the their perception of the devil is and what ours was and but it was it was when i heard it had been cancelled i thought oh there's a lot of people who aren't going to be very happy about this what i didn't realize that there was millions of people that were not happy about it and wouldn't let it go and it was i you know used the word of

indicating again but it really was kind of like i i i i didn't, I wanted to think, I'm not going crazy. Like, I'm doing all this press around the world for the first few years. I've been involved in things before and I know when something's popular and this felt incredibly popular. But it didn't feel like Fox ever recognized that. For whatever reason, I don't know. Um, but it was popular. And then it just grew and grew, when it went on Netflix, it just exploded. Were you the one who told the rest of the cast or they already knew? Uh, I, so people have been calling me saying, do you know, what's going on. Do you know what's going on? And I said, Amy. Yeah, Amy. I just tell Amy,

then she'd tell everyone else. I was basically like, look, Warner Brothers are trying to find a new home for it. That's what I know. And as soon as I know anything else, I'll let you know. But until then, just keep plugging away. Keep plugging away. Keep responding on Twitter. Keep telling people to keep the faith, as it were, you know, we're not going down. We're not going to just lie down and take it sort of thing. That's beautiful. It just never happened. Yeah. And again, you know, I've been told by Peter Roth and other people, this never happens. This never happens. This never happens. But that weird sort of feeling that you were talking about before about your career and that's the same thing that I'd had. I'd had this kind of niggle that something was going to happen about it. And it did. You know, I'll bring this back to me. I had a show that got canceled in two seasons. And the ratings, if they were now, it would have been a big show.

Like the ratings were pretty good. They were decent. They weren't, you know, but now if we had those ratings, that show would get five, six seasons. And we just got two. But I remember, you know, the head called me and he was awesome. Love Keith Cox. And Keith was like, hey, we're going more female-centric and, you know, we're not going to do the show anymore. So I was like, oh, okay.

And then I called the other producer and the creator. And the producer's like, can we find another home for it? Eh, I don't know. No one can. It just went away. And by the way, I didn't get millions of people going, oh, my God, it was like, you know, 300, 300 people saying, hey, really, that sucks. I like that shit, you know. But even then I had some hope going, hey, you know, this was a pretty fun show.

maybe but the fact that the response so in a you know as much as we could sit there and say I hate social media I hate you know we all do it we're hypocrites and we do it yet there's so many bad facets of social media but they're good facets you know they're good parts to it and you know this without social media this wouldn't have happened oh no without a shadow so and I'm the same as you like I have hugely mixed feelings about social media yeah and I again, you know, the more you're in the spotlight, the less you want to use it is my feeling about it. Like I just, I want to be private and protect things privately. And I feel like going on social media, you're just leaving yourself open to anything. And, but at the same time,

I wouldn't be here probably talking to you about this thing right now if it hadn't been for social media. There are huge positives to it. Yeah. But, you know, I remember watching an interview with David Bowie back in 97, I think it was, and he was on BBC News Night. And he was talking about the internet. And he was talking about what an incredibly amazing thing it can be, but also at the same time, what an incredibly, what a window of darkness it will open as well. Absolutely. And that's, you know, I'd say the same thing about social media. Yep. Would you do a Lucifer revival if they said, let's do a movie? We want to do a movie, a two, our movie or one final thing.

Is it something you would strongly consider or you think, hey, this is, let's put this the rest. I certainly feel like on the TV front, we've, like I said before, we covered all bases. I think that the only thing that would make me go back would be if it were a movie. And it would have to be good. Yeah. It's not just doing it for the sake of doing it. It would have to be, you know, we'd have to sign off on like,

what the script was and all those things because I feel like one of the one of the things that one of the weird things certainly about working over here is there's so much like when you're somebody successful people just want more more more more more whereas where I'm from you know leave them wanting more is the motto and it was never such a sort of financially commercially based industry back in the UK yeah so you don't you know Miranda for example we only ever did 20 episodes in total and it's still I iconic and it's still as an afterlife that people revisit. But the reason we only did that many is because Miranda didn't want to do anymore. And she didn't want to write it because it took so

much out for she wrote all the episodes of it. And she felt like she'd done it. And, you know, to beat it around the head and dilute it as a product just for the sake of making more and more and more and more. She didn't want to do that. And I had so much respect for her for making that decision because the BBC were desperate for it. Wow. And I, you know, I strongly believe that. leave them wanting more yeah you know important um when netflix bought lucifer is it was it sort of like hey if you guys want this to go for another three seasons they're going to pay what you guys are making but they're not going to give any advances or those things still worked out so because if i with them they want to show back we're just not paying them anymore this is what

you know that's what that's what happened i figured that that's what happened we uh you know without getting into it too much i i stayed on the same contract for the whole time. Yeah. Which, you know, I, I, I, I, I, you weren't happy about it. I wasn't happy about it. And there's the reason that this, you know, the strike and everything has happened and all of those things.

Yeah. It's to address the situation that I found myself in at the end of Lucifer. And I'm not complaining about it, but I am glad that we are now as a union doing something about those situations never happening again. Yeah. Because I think people assume that it, because it's so successful. for now on Netflix, people assume that I am rich beyond my wildest dreams, which I am not. And, you know, it's just, it's one of those things.

But I'm glad, you know, one of the great things about being over here as an actor is that the union is incredibly strong. And, you know, the steps that they've been going through recently is really, really important. And unfortunately, for me, I would say something that would never happen back home. because the union isn't strong enough. And, you know, one of the things, I think universally in this industry is we are always made to feel how lucky we are to be working. And I think the payers sort of use that to their advantage.

You're an actor. You're a working actor. You're a working actor. You should be, you know, lucky, lucky, lucky. And it's like, I agree with you. But at a certain point, it's also my career and my, you know, this is how I support my family. My livelihood. I didn't live with you. So, you know, I need it to be treated that way as well, not just to

kind of like, look how lucky you are. I don't, you know, I feel incredibly lucky that this is all happening for me. Yeah. But I also, you know, this is, that's the chance I took. That's the chance I took when I started my career. And, you know, like anything in life, in success, you would like to be rewarded. Well, I always say, if you're an integral part of something that become successful and you're an integral part of that, you absolutely deserve to be paid, compensated. I don't understand why there's, why there's always, oh, we're not making, there's always a reason. There's always a reason. And we don't have to get into that. But, you know, it's... I certainly as an artist, as a creative as well. I feel like that that is just,

you know, your work outlives you. But to just be paid to do the work then and then everyone else sort of like sees that work and you know people start to gravitate towards it it there needs to be some kind of like equitable way of working it out yeah just yeah it can't be just like well we don't know yeah we don't know yeah we don't know how do we yeah differenti i mean i think they do know they know i think that's the thing it's just like that you know they worked on a business model that all of a sudden well not all of a sudden i think over time that business model has created what it's created and now people have gone

well the language that we're using is not relevant to this business model but the job that we're doing is exactly the same so we think we need to catch up and you know what's next anything that you're looking forward to yeah I mean I I shot something last year called Washington Black for Hulu

which was an adaptation of a wonderful novel of the same name And it's a big, extravagant costume drama set at the time of the end, towards the end of slavery in the British, British Empire. It's a nine-part limited series. Wow. With Sterling K. Brown. Wow. And a whole host of other wonderful people.

Charles Dance played my dad in it, which was incredible experience. And I'm really looking, I've not seen a frame of it yet. Not a frame. I haven't seen anything. Have you heard he's really great in it? A couple of people have told me that that I know at Hulu which is lovely but I you know

as an actor you're like whatever everybody will say that let's watch I'm sure it's great but I'm really looking forward to that coming out and then my wife and I are working together on a couple of projects and that is basically something that I'm really looking forward to doing

because we worked together once before I had a great experience she's an incredible writer right and you know I'm at a point in my life where spinning lots of plates about family and geography and things like that to be able to you know take that out the equation on projects and still deliver something that's really good yeah um feels like a huge sort of benefit so yeah is it Megan or Megan Megan Megan like Reagan I say it wrong all the time my kids say it wrong Megan Megan like Reagan Megan M-E-A-G-H-A-N and I mean you get this a million but it really is

Oppenheimer? It is and she is related to. How so? I believe it is her. It's so it will be a cousin because it's a great uncle's son. So a long-distance cousin. There you go. So what did you think what she saw it? We haven't seen it yet. Oh, well. Well, there you go. No, for no particular reason. I've heard it's incredible. I just, you know, we are not the best to be perfectly fair. at getting to the movies, darling. Maybe I'll screen it here one night. I should do. I still do want to watch it on IMAX though,

because I know you're meant to watch it that way. I did. I watched it on that. I've got a terrible habit of watching movies that I should have watched on IMAX, but on planes. Yeah, yeah, I know. I watched Avatar for the first time

on the back of a night in a coach seat, you know, those tiny little monitors. Hey, do you do, lastly, do you do any impressions? Ooh, do I do any impressions? Actually, I sort of, I sort of, I've worked on my Charles dance a little bit when I was working with him. You know, he was in Game of Thrones. Which one was he?

He's, uh, Lannister, the dad, Lannister. Oh, he's amazing. Yeah. So, Charles, I'm going to close my eyes. So, you know, he would be talking a lot of the time. And, um, it feels like he was cleaning, cleaning stuff from his teeth all the time, Tom. But, um, do you go to the gym, Tom? Are you one of those actors?

Yeah. Is that what he does? That's amazing. He's got this kind of like disapproving snarl all the time. But thankfully, I got to know him really well, and he's a teddy bear underneath all of it. Gosh, you're so intimidating. And he died on the shitter. Oh, yeah, he died on the shitter.

Yeah. Him and Elvis. Yeah, no, I can't. He is incredibly intimidating. And again, one of those people, when I started working with him, I was like, my inner voice just going, I just want you to think I'm a good actor. I know. We all want that.

We all deep down want somebody to go. he was really great yeah he was great to work with he was you want a few things you want somebody you want to be likable you want to be uh giving to your fellow actor you want to um you know you just sometimes like i worked with this guy bill fickner you know him i don't know that you know him if you saw him okay he's been in time everything um but he wanted to meet me before they cast me in this movie i did like four years ago and i was like fuck so the director's like he wants to have lunch with you someone had lunch with him and he was just kind of really dry and you know and talk to me and then afterwards the director said hey he thought you were really nice I goes like oh I thought

he's going to be like I don't want to work with this guy and I worked with him but I was always like trying to earn his and I think by the but in even in our first scene together he goes it's almost like he sighed like he goes okay you're good okay you're here to play you're good yeah And I felt it. I'm going to prove it. That is a lovely feeling. It is. It's a scary feeling.

But it's really scary and, you know, intimidating and all of those things. And I think there's something about the blessing of your peers that is incredibly profound as an actor. I don't know what it is. I know. But it looks at me all like to bitch about other people's performances. That's what it is. God, that sucks. But, yeah, just that.

Yeah. This has been a tree. I really thank you for coming in. You're a delightful guest. So insightful. I love the stories. I love the, you're just very open and,

yeah. Well, you're very good at this, Mr. Rosenbaum. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate this.

This is awesome. Thank you, buddy. Yeah, it's awesome. The conjuring last rites. On September 5th. Hooray!

Hooray! The Conjuring! Hooray! Hooray! Array! The Conjuring Last Rites. Only on Theater September 5th.

I loved him. And I didn't think... I thought he'd be a little bit more shy. I think... I thought he'd be a little more reserved. And he was just freaking cool. Thank you, Tom Ellis. man i had a blast with you uh i don't know if i'll ever hear from you again but uh he was great he came

over the house and he was i don't know if he did it a favor for tom willing because tom made the initial introduction you know most of time i get my own guest but you know a lot of times like you know christin ritter introduced me to karian moss and you know uh skeet and um so you have friends that help you out you know i don't sit there and go oh could you know but if they go oh i know so and so I go, yeah, sure, whatever you can do because you have to entertain. Thank you, Kristen Ritter. A little shout out to Kristen, a little shout out to Tom Weller, Wellington. And that's it, man.

If you didn't listen to the intro, I don't know what else to tell you. Join Patreon today and support the podcast a little more than just listening, which is awesome. But go to Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, Patreon.com slash inside of you, and support the podcast. So we can keep going and give you good episodes, give you good content. you know sometimes i you know i was watching this intro ryan to another person's podcast and i like the person and then i was like got he gets so many you know he gets really big numbers and this and i was like stop it stop comparing yourself stop comparing yourself to this and and then i started thinking well i think i'm a better interviewer than that person why are they and i said i'm like

stop this person does their thing you do your thing and some people like what you do and people like with that and I was comparing myself and I was like no you're not going to do that I stopped myself I said good for that person and good for me the world is lucky was the longest YouTube comment you've ever left no yeah maybe but anyway but I like this person good I like their content good but sometimes it surprises me that some people get you know so many viewers what are they doing Maybe I don't, maybe I'm not funny enough. I don't, I'm not personable enough. You're compelling.

That's good, right? I guess so. I don't know. Maybe I'm boring. Am I boring? What? Ryan, you fuck it off. Oh, boy.

Don't compare yourself ever, but I'm just admitting that I did. So, sorry, I won't do it again. All right. Thank you so much. All my love. We're going to give a shout out to the top. to your patrons now who we love and adore and without them we couldn't do this podcast and here they are the first reading of the year make sure you join nancy d lee and christin little lisa

ukiko you kiko how would you sing yukiko as a song you kiko where you want you can go where you like you Kiko It's like a Guns and Roses B side Is that what that is? Like you Kiko, like you Kiko, but you Kiko, you can go. You can go.

You Kiko where you want to. You Kiko where you like. All right, sorry. Jill E. Brian Hinnickam. You're like an 80s concert man. Nico P. I hope Zachary's doing

all right. Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C Jennifer N, Stacey L, Jamal F, Janelle, B, Mike E. L, Donso, Primo, 99, more, Santiago M, Leanne, P. Ryan, you want to read a couple?

Sure, Mattie S, Belinda, and Dave H. Wait, wait. Dave H. Hello, Michael. It's only Dave. Dave, I hope you had a nice new year, Dave. Really enjoyed you. Hopefully you have...

Wait, I'm not doing it really well. Hold on. Dave. Oh, I hope you had a good... I hope you had a good New Year, Dave. It's been really nice, Michael. I am. It's terrible. I'm sorry. But Dave, you're awesome. Go ahead. Sheila G. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom and Talia M. Betsy D. Rian C. Cori K. Dev Nexon, Michelle A. Jeremy C. Brandy D., Eugene and Leah.

Corey M.S. Christine S. Christine S. Eric H. and Shane R. That's right. Andrew M. Amanda R. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Jorel. M and J, Leanne J, Luna R, Mike F, Stone H, Brian L, Jules M, Kendall L, Jessica B, Kyle F, Marisol P, Marisol, Kaley, J, Brian A, Marion Louise L, Romy of the band, Frank B, Jentee, Nikki L, April R, Mandy S, J. D, D, W, Orell P, Orell B, toothbrushes, Rachel D, Melissa H, Nick W, Stephanie and Evan, Charlene A, Don G, D, D, Jenny B. John, Jennifer R. Tina E. N. G. Tracy, Junie. Do we have less top-tier patrons? Does it seem a little less? I don't know. I'm going to count them right now. One, two. No, I'm not going to know. But, uh, hey, thank you guys for supporting the podcast. Um, it is awesome. It is really awesome that you do that and you continue to do so. Some of these people have been here for years supporting this podcast. And I guess they see something in it for them that helps or they appreciate it.

I guess that's, and I appreciate them. But to be a patron, to give a certain amount of money every month to something like a subscription to like a Hulu or whatever, to do that for a podcast, something's got to be going right. Maybe it's they feel a family, sort of a connection. They like the content. What do you think it is, Ryan? probably all of the above could be all the above i don't have a specific answer i'm sorry that's okay guys thank you for listening to the podcast today uh thank you for allowing me to be inside of you i hope you join us every week i hope you hopefully you enjoyed time ellis i enjoyed ryan right here um and uh all my love to you from the hollywood hills and hollywood california i am michael Rosenbaum. I am Ryan Tayos. I'm here too. I'm here to the camera. You're here too, Ryan. I'm here too.

That was so like, just like, I'm here too. I'm half here. My brain went somewhere else. Yeah, your brain went somewhere. My bad. It's the new year, guys. All right, be good to yourself. Be good to yourself. Let's do it right. You're going to make mistakes. Things are going to happen that you're like

you're upset with yourself about. You're not keeping to your resolution, to your list, to your, just try to do the best you can and try to be healthy. And that's all I can tell you. All right. We'll see you next week. I hope you're here.

And goodbye, Ryan, goodbye. Bye. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stackin' Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage.

That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this. addition that we're at it. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamin's follow and listen on your favorite platform.