Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - TOM PAYNE: Living an American Lie, Leaving the Walking Dead & Hitting His Mental Breaking Point

Episode Date: March 12, 2024

Tom Payne (The Walking Dead, Prodigal Son) joins us this week to share his journey in becoming an actor along with the unique pride and sacrifices he’s made to fully invest in his career coming over to America. Tom shares difficult lessons he’s had to learn about managing expectations, after certain projects that he believed were shoe-ins didn’t live up in the eyes of fans or people in the industry. We also talk about his nerves while joining the biggest show at the time in The Walking Dead, the differences in traffic violations in the UK and US, and how unfortunately we often don’t make changes until we hit rock bottom. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🧠 Neurohacker: https://neurohacker.com/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you for listening today. I hope you're having a good week. Thanks for listening to my podcast, for God's sakes. We've been around a while and we can use all the support we can get, right, Ryan?

Mm-hmm. You got a burp there kind of in your mouth? Nope. No? You're all right? Ryan and I are going to see a BG's cover band tomorrow. We are. Tell me you care.

Not you. What? Me? Oh. No. The audience. Is that a song? Look, if you like this interview, I ask to subscribe, write a review.

Helps the show a lot. And if you want to join patron, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, go to patreon.com slash inside of you. Become a patron. There's so many perks. You get packages from me and notes and Zoom. Just take a look at it. If you want to support the show, it means a lot. It helps without my patrons.

I couldn't do this show. And also, you can go to my Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum. and go to my link tree and you can see where me and tom well and you're doing cons we're now doing a smallville con for the very first time in october new jersey that will be fun we'll do smallville nights um and tom and i also going to do a live podcast for the talkville podcast in la hopefully in april or may we got we're figuring out a date but let you know but go to the link tree in my uh instagram at the michael rosenham go to link tree for cameos and all that stuff and links to the inside of you online store if you want cool merch um and i got a i haven't plugged in a while but i have a new puppy product called rosy's puppy fresh breath and if you want your dog to have fresh breath then rosy's puppy fresh breath is for you it's odorless it's tasteless and uh that's a plug got to give a plug it's i love it's on amazon check it out and uh write a review if you like that certainly helps uh we need some reviews because on amazon there's so many tom pain is the guest we talk

a lot about career in life and mental health and all that stuff we talk about the walking dead and i really enjoyed this conversation and what's funny is you look at him and you don't he just very unassuming is that the right word very just a regular guy and i he's english but you're so used to him speaking with an american accent and like a big dark character too yeah he's just a guy in slacks. He's just a guy in slacks. That's all I am right now is a guy in slacks. I hope you guys have a great week.

And thank you for listening to this podcast. Let's just get into it. Let's get inside Tom Paine. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Thanks for coming here. You didn't get a speeding ticket on your way here, like the last guest. No, I did not get a speedy ticket. How do you get a speeding ticket on the way here?

Well, it's bad. But you have to get, in America, you have to get caught by someone to get a speeding ticket. Wait a minute. Are you saying in England, you tend to... There's cameras everywhere. There's cameras everywhere? Yeah, yeah. Oh, they used to do that here, and now they don't do that anymore. Because it was against American rights or something. They had like red light. cameras here and speed cameras, but they got rid of it all because in America, you can say

that's against my rights and they get taken away. Wow, but in England? In England government rule. Yeah, I didn't know that they still do that in England. Do people fight it? Do they get upset about it? No, because they have it on video as well. So they're like, this is you going five miles over this. You can't deny it. But that was always wild to me when I moved to America. It's like, you get on the freeway here. No one's driving the speed limit. No one's using their turn signals. Everyone's doing crazy shit. And my wife is always like, where are the cops? Where are the cops? Because the only time you get in trouble here is if a cop actually sees you do it. You know, stop signs and freeways and everything. Have you ever been pulled over

in the States? Yeah, a couple times. Did you get tickets? Yeah, yeah. They probably, I'm guessing when a, when a cop comes over and goes, hey, I see your license and registration, you're like, oh, yeah, sorry about that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're like, oh, you're English, you're definitely getting a ticket. You're also like, it's kind of thrilling. You're like, I'm in a movie. The cop's coming over and he's going to talk to me. And, yeah. Did you. Do you feel like they don't like you? Do they feel like... Well, I made it...

No, no, no. I made an error. It was years ago when I first started working here and I had a tape deck adapter for my iPhone that you put in the tape deck and it plays the song. And they always used to break, but I had many of them. And I got pulled over by a bike cop and I was like... And I was going like 80 or something on the freebie because I was concentrating on... I was concentrating on driving, but like I was like changing the song on my phone.

And I was in the... left line and the cop was like and you were texting when I when I pulled you over and I was like no I was just changing and I was just like so British was like no I was just changing the song on my that I was listening to and like well you were still looking down and but it was still kind of thrilling I was like this is kind of fun you are the first person actually enjoy getting a ticket this is an experience yeah you know how long have you been doing this uh acting yeah uh well I mean you know I did it in school and then I went to drama school in London when I left. I auditioned for a few when I finished school. I didn't get in the first year and

I reapplied and I got in and I graduated 2005 and then started working that year. Yeah, but I'm talking like, you know, you're a young kid. You're going up in England. So what's it like were your parents kind of like supporting this? Were there other actors in your family? So first of all, I don't believe anyone who's like, I knew from a young age. I'm like, no. You like showing off and you like applause. Like you have no idea. Absolutely. You know, you have no idea what being an actor is or anything.

True. Even when you're training or whatever, you have no idea. But you could want to be famous at that age. Yes, you can want to be famous, want people to clap at you. And want money. And yeah, I mean, at that point, it's not so much about money because you have no idea how much money you're going to need. That's true.

Especially when you moved to America. Do you remember when you thought like, he's like, I'm going to make $100,000 and I'm going to be rich and I'll take care of all my friends. And like, 100,000. That's, I mean. Good luck, man. That's a lot. Especially nowadays. I got my first TV regular. I got 26,000 pounds for the whole season. And that was more than enough for me. It was like a thousand pounds a week for the, you know, I was living on, you know, but I thought 100,000 forever. Like that's all you need. Okay. No, 100,000 dollars. I'm going to make $100,000 in one day total. And I am going to be set. Now, go back to, you know, when you're talking about everybody, nobody wants to be. So nobody wants to be famous. But I, um, I was basically a lot of, but I, um, I was basically a lot of, loud kid. And when I was five or six, a teacher saw me screaming my lungs out singing in the,

you know, whatever, like assembly that we were having in the morning. He's like, you should come and do this. So they started to put me at the front of like singing or whatever in my pre. I don't know what you call that. Like preschool? Preschool, I guess. And then yeah. And then when I went into, when I was seven, a teacher was like, you should audition for the school play. And so then I, that was what I did. And that was kind of my place. the school was like I did the school plays every year and that was my purpose. And you liked it. I loved it. And I loved, like, I'm like a, I was a bright kid and like very capable but quite lazy. And like, so my dad would like kick me up the ass after my report cards and then my next

report card would be really good. And then they just slowly tailor off as I got. Right. Just to prove that you could do it. Yeah. And then I'd be like, okay, I'll make this one good. Right. Not that I'm a big brain or anything, but like, you know, you just, yeah, I was bright enough to to get good grades. Right. And then, but then I did the school plays. right up until the end. And I just figured at some point when I was a teenager, like, well, that youthful naivety of what am I going to do as a job? Well, this is what I enjoy. So that's going to be my profession. And my dad, so my mom's a makeup artist for TV and film, makeup and hair. And my dad is a journalist who started as a print journalist and then

TV and reporter. And then he worked his way up when he had kids. Like he started taking the money jobs and became like managing director of our local network, local TV network. Right. So I was around the business more through my mom because I went to set sometimes and and enjoyed the gossip that makeup artists partake in. You know what's funny? I'll say this. My makeup artist on Smallville, Natalie, I worked with her for seven years, 10 months a year. She has spent, I have spent more time, spent more time with each other than I have ever spent with anyone else in my life i would spend two hours in makeup before a half hour after she'd always be on set i always be talking to her she'd always be powdering me and you know how that goes and i realized like i think i

spent more time with her in a week than i have with my mother in 10 years oh yeah yeah yeah and she knew everything about me she knows when i have a bad day when she's having a bad day if she's upset like it was it just became therapy and like she was my therapist she should have got paid extra a lot more than she was making. It's the first person you meet and the last person you meet at the end of the day, you know. Yeah. So they have a, they do have an important position outside of their physical job is talking to you at the beginning. They have to deal with whatever's happened to you, you know, some actors wake up on the wrong side of bed. Some actors come in and they're like, yeah, everyone listen to the music that I'm listening to this morning. And like,

the makeup truck is, you have to balance the atmosphere in there. It's really, it's actually a really interesting spot on a set, the makeup truck. And I see why some actors, well, a lot of actors, like to have it done in their trailer or like have their own personal or whatever, because if you go into the makeup truck with everyone, you kind of have to deal with everyone else's energy as well. It's kind of an energy sucker. It can be. Yeah, it can be. But did your mom ever tell you any stories of any famous actors that she did the makeup for? So she, um, uh, worked on I Claudius, the 70s series. Yeah. Like way back in the day and then, and then a bunch of other, Her speciality was period, hair and makeup.

She would dress wigs and all that kind of stuff, which was really cool. We got to work together once about eight years ago now. She did your makeup and hair? Yeah, she did my wig. I had this crazy Regency wig in a miniseries. But she did tell me this one story where, so that you know, there's been obviously the Me Too and all this kind of stuff and like sexual harassment stuff all going on through the industry. And there's been a nice, like, clean out of certain behaviors. But she did tell me this one story.

of this actor who was who was sitting there having his makeup done by another artist next to her and he had a gown on. He had the gown on and the makeup artist was like seeing this happen underneath his and so like the gown

was like moving up and down while she was doing him and so she smacked him around the back of the head and told him to stop it and he took the gown off and was like I was cleaning my glasses no way

he was like cleaning his glasses under and she thought thought that he was masturbating. Oh, I can see that because if you're cleaning your glasses, let's just give an example here. You know, you're just like, but you're using your thumb. Well, it depends how like, you know, you can, I don't know, it's just kind of funny. But then my mom talks about there, all those kinds of things like, yeah, you know, actors would

come on to you and like, and that is a whole other part of the job that they used to deal with all the time and, you know, yeah, that's still happens sometimes. That's amazing. But she was, she was my guiding light. She like, she'd put. the hot towel on me at night. Oh, you like the hot towel? Yeah, because my whole head and everything was just like tons of makeup.

And then she would make sure I'm okay. And you got to remember, this is a woman who if my call time was 6 a.m. Yeah. Her call time was 5.30 to get it ready. And when I'm wrapped at seven or eight at night, she's got to stay with me and then clean her stuff up and then leave a half an hour before after I do. It's why my mom stopped. To get home to her family to be a mom.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just extraordinary. Yeah. It's really, filming is really hard on your personal life. Like, it really is. Like, since I've had a child, I haven't been on a long job. And that's going to be logistically hard.

But also, like, I've been away, like, to do a convention or something for a weekend. And it's crazy. It feels, like, unnatural. You're like, I shouldn't be leaving my child. But you have to like, you know, you weigh it up with what I have to because I have to provide for my family and stuff. But it's a wild feeling to like, oh, I should, and you get it in your gut of like, this is wrong. I shouldn't be.

Do you feel guilty? I mean, I guess that's guilt. Yeah, I guess that's what it is. It's just like, oh, but, but I'm confident in the fact that, like, he feels loved and he has a very nice family atmosphere at home and it's all good. But it's just an unnatural thing. Like, you do fall into those categories of like, I'm a father now. So I'm the provider and the protector.

and it just happens naturally, you know, it's weird. What's the longest you've been away from? Like four days. That's it? Four or five, yeah. Oh, I thought maybe if you did, how old? No, you see, I haven't done anything yet. So, well, last year when he was like one, I went.

Oh, so he's very young. Yeah. I mean, I think, well, actually, when I shot Imaginary, the Blumhouse movie, I was away for, I guess maybe five days at the most. But yeah. But it just, then you get home. Where an imaginary film? New Orleans.

Which like my wife, so when I do get the next big long job, my wife and I, we're all going to go together. But she would never have survived in New Orleans because she can't deal with the heat and the humidity. Like, we've been there together. But last summer, it was just, I don't know how people survive there. It's so, like, close. Yeah. You know, it's crazy. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money.

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yes it does as much as it can um with the concept to keep within the parameters of pg 13 what i will say is that um it has practical effects oh good which is way more scary in my mind yes and i was super excited about that. So every monster that appears in the movie is practical, which is so cool for us as actors as well. I've been fortunate, and then I haven't done a huge amount of pretending there's a monster anywhere or pretending to see something. I've done it once or twice, but I think that's just even harder. As good of an actor as you are, there's always going to be something in the back of your eyes that you're doing an extra job. It's like when you audition for something. I hate doing self-tapes. Oh, yeah. Because you are incapable of doing the job that you

are going to do on set, because you are already creating all of this stuff in your head that's getting in the way of your performance. Yeah. You know, you can't, I have to pretend that I'm in that room, you know, whatever the scene is. I have to pretend that you're the person. I have to, you know, which happens in a casting room, but there's something, I don't know, self-tapes are even harder for me. but like you have to be more fake than you would be like when you turn up on set yeah there's certain energy that you have when you're in a room yeah well that's different because that when you're in a room you have like a more of a okay I'm doing this I gotta do this man yeah and that helps that really like gives you something but doing a self tape at home or in a studio is you just

lose a little bit of it you know what I have only done two self tapes what yeah oh my god I did a self-tape for something I was interested in like a month ago and I hadn't done it for a while and I didn't want to memorize the lines. So my buddy got his iPad, my friend Bill, who you met out there, who was his girlfriend, was your production coordinator on Walking Dead. Old Flater, Andrew Flater, he got those emails from Flater. But we put it on his iPad. It scrolled. He would read the lines with me. We did it a couple times. I loved it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love not having to really prepare and just kind of giving it. And you never would have known that I was reading it. And I almost got it. I was very close to getting it. I was like, wow, this was actually fun. I'd rather not be in a room with all these other clowns, you know, judging me and making me feel nervous or whatever. And, you know, it's on my time. And if that worked, well, maybe this is the way to go.

But do you prefer people around? you like for the energy? I did it again recently for the first time an in-room audition and it definitely had the energy to it. The thing that is frustrating now, which I hadn't realized before, I've done a few long-running shows now, is that I know that when I'm in a show, I'm very relaxed and because I don't have the pressure of everything has to be right because I know we're going to do it more than once and we have different angles on it. And so you can try things out and you can go different ways and you can yeah because you know they're going to edit get edit the best bits together but like it went on a self tape you have to get everything

perfect or as perfect as you can which is not what the job is like I I feel like when you're on set you should be able to change and move things and I'm I'm no performance will be exactly not that I'm wildly from one end of the scale to the other but it will always be slightly different and that's what the editor enjoys and what the director enjoys and what you need to balance a show Because you have to get it on one take. On a self-tape. On a self-tape. What if you did something where it's a self-tape and then page one, you screw up, so then

you use take two and you just do a punch in. Yeah, I mean, I've considered that. I've like, you know, fuck it. If they think, you know, hey, just you can see what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Do you really need it to be perfect? Because the other take had a better line reading on this one line. I think you get a lot of like notes with them now of like, don't do this, don't do that.

So I don't know, because I don't want to. to step on the casting director's toes either. And it's like, I don't know, the whole thing. Really, I just want to meet the person that's going to hire me. Like, I really just want to sit down. Let's talk about what you want to do with this. And then, oh, great. Okay, let's play around with it and blah, blah, blah, which is what will happen on set. Yeah. But it sucks me out. It sikes me out sometimes when you go into a casting room as an actor. And they're like, hey, how you do? And then you start talking. And you start kind of goofing off and you're making them laugh. And they're thinking, and you're great.

And they're like, okay, you want to do this? And now I'm like, no. Now I don't want to do this. I want to do this right when I get in the room. Let's do it. And then maybe we could talk. I had the problem. I hate it.

I realized, and I was like, I'm never going to be that actor. But I realized quickly that if I go in using my British accent, they will always think they can hear it when I do my American accent. So I started to go in with my American accent. Because otherwise they feel like they can hear it. And I always felt like, really you're going to go in it. it's you have to because otherwise they just they just they're not even wanting they're listening

to what you're saying as opposed to watching you perform yes and i i always felt like the skill was between action and cut so you walk in like hey hey how's it going cool cool let's chat chat chat and then action acting but actually you do kind of have to walk in with the energy of the character and like and first impressions is everything you know and they meet you and then they do the tape, you know, so if they, if you manage to shake their hand or do whatever you do and make them feel something just when the first time they've met you, that will make 50% of the impression, I think. Do you think, like, if you were going in there and you were supposed to play some guy from like New, like Brooklyn, or something like that, you know, like talking like

this and you go in, hey, nice to meet you. It's great. Thanks for having me. Yeah, you know, and just talking and like in that kind of, do you think that's a better way to approach it as to go, or to go in there and just be yourself and then kick it in. And they're like, oh, he's doing an accent. It's the same thing, isn't it? That's what I'm saying. So you should just go in and do it. I think so.

And I think nowadays people respect that as well. You hear a lot about, oh, the actor stayed in character or the actor stayed in accent at least, you know, the funniest thing, when I joined Walking Dead, Andrew Lincoln, who plays Rick, we're from the same city in England. And we had actually met around the millennium because we were part of the same kind of after school theater group. And they did this benefit for the millennium. and we were in it together.

So I'd met him before. And then when we were on set together, when I first arrived to Walking Dead, we went and sat on the deck of one of the houses in Alexandria and just kind of chatted and caught up. And he was using his American accent because he would stay in his accent to just, you know,

so he didn't fall out of it while he was filming. So then, which is something that I never did. Like when I'm working. That's method. Yeah, well, kind of. Kind of. When I'm working, like, I flip in and out. But we were having this conversation

and I was like, Okay. I need to use my American accent. So then we were talking about growing up in the city that we grew up in and his kids and his family in our American accents. And it was the most bizarre thing I've ever done. I was like, this is so weird. Give me an example. Yeah, remember when we were. Yeah, we're just talking about his kids and how, you know, uh, oh, yeah, my, my daughter goes to this school and I'm like, oh, really, yeah, I have a friend who went to that school. And I'm just like, but we're talking about things that are from your American accent is is really solid. Like I remember it in the show. when you play Jesus. Jesus, right? Some would say, hey, Zeus. Yeah, well, not in that show. Not in that show. No, I know. You had followers and whatever. But I thought, I never thought for a second, you were English. Yeah, which I think.

Which is great. I mean, I've lived here since 2010, and people ask me about that all the time. And I say, actually, it's to do with the fact that I don't like to stand out too much in my day to day. And so I use my American accent all the time in America. I don't want to be, I don't want to be, um, asked where I'm, I don't want to explain where I'm from my whole life. Like, you know, oh, where are you from? Oh, I have from bars. Or like, or I don't want to be, I don't want people to be like, wait, what did you say? You know, so I say water instead of water and like all that. If I'm ordering in a bar, I'll always order in my American accent. Right. It's just easier. It just makes my life. So you're pretty much living a line. Yes. Yes. Although I just got my citizenship a couple weeks ago. You did. So I am American now. Can you're a I'm American. I am fully. And now no one can say, go back to your own country, because this is my country. Who would say that?

Oh, well. Have you ever had that? I mean, you are. Go back to Australia. I'm not from Australia. Well, no one is. We sent them all there. That's true.

You did. Yes. But, I mean, yeah, I mean, if you ever express any kind of an opinion on something that's happening in America, people will be like, well, this isn't your country. You're like, who do you think you are having an opinion on this country? And actually, a lot of the time, I'm not going to get too political on this, but a lot of the times I feel more invested in this country than people who were born here because I have worked really hard to live here and exist here and pay taxes here and now take my citizenship here. And people talk about how like, oh, it's easy. It's not easy. And it costs a lot of money. And I've invested a lot in this country. And I believe in this country and what this country was founded on and the freedom that this country gives, I really. really do. And that's why my wife and I left our countries and came here. And I feel like people forget in this country what it represents to a lot of people around the world and why they come

here. You know, it's not for a free ride. It's because you get more respect and you're allowed to do more than other countries where they don't, you know, they don't live the life that you can Yeah, I think we're very lucky. I do. I mean, we get a bad rap or, you know, a lot of stuff. deservedly so yeah every country yeah well you know yeah i could say you know sometimes i'm you know but i love living in this country whenever i'm abroad and i'm gone for a couple of weeks there always comes a time where i'm like i just want a hamburger i just i just want to be back in the states i don't care yeah i don't care how great italy is and how great france or germany or whatever i they're all great places to go i'm going to italy but i'm like i want to be back home

I just want to be back. Where is it? Where are you from? I was born in New York, but I grew up in southern Indiana. Oh, okay. Interesting. And that college in Kentucky, moved back to New York, got some off Broadway, moved to L.A., and I've been here for 25 years. Wow. I think one of the things that Europeans don't really realize is that it's kind of maybe the

wrong thing to say, but like America is not really a country. It's a collection of countries. So if you drive across, it really is the United States of America. My wife and I have driven across like four or five times at this point. and you really realize when you drive through all of the different states how different each state is and how different the rules are and how different people are the mentality yeah you know i was talking to this girl that i met on a dating app a while back yeah anyway which one no but it doesn't matter you probably know it but no you don't you're married but you probably still know it but we're talking and you know she's talking about guys like sort of in Florida. She's like, you know, I want to, you know, she wants to get, she wants to be married

eventually. And she wants to. And I'm like, all right. And, uh, but she's used to guys in northern Florida. Now, I'm not saying these are bad guys. Probably great, some great guys. But if you go from there to Dallas, Texas guys, to Los Angeles guys. Yeah, yeah. To maybe Indiana boys. and then go up the road down up to New York City boys completely different people. Yeah, absolutely. Completely, you know, just completely different.

So, but I agree. There's just, you know, it's a melting pot. It's, it's, it's, it's, well, that's what's great. Yeah. That's really what's great. And that's why the immigration argument is kind of frustrates me

because it's really what this country is founded on. And it's really cool. It's what makes this country what it is, you know, it's cool. And it's been very good to me. Did, uh, walking, dead changed your life, didn't it? Yeah, I had a career where, so I left drama school and I was

managed to get a really good agent straight off the bat. So I was able to do a bunch of auditions, which, you know, it's a theater training in England. So like, it was very beneficial to do a lot of TV and film auditions and not get most of them, but like be going through the motions and, and I got screen tested for a film called Hannibal Rising, which. Yeah, I remember that. rest of soul, Gaspar Yulil ended up doing. But who was the, Dina de Laurentis, apparently really liked my tape. And it just got me, got a little bit of heat around me, which my agent then used to propel me forward and I did a movie and blah, blah, blah, blah.

And then I had had a few different occasions where I was like, oh, this is it, this is it, this is the job that's going to do it. This is it, this is it. Oh, nobody cared. Like, oh, this is just, dude, it happened like so many times and you really. What are the ones that you thought would pop? Well, so, but what that ends up being is that there are increments. You do, you are going up the ladder, but just not, you're not making those big leaps.

So I did, the movie that got me, to move out here and got me my representation was a movie called Miss Patrick Grue lives for a day, which is a focus features movie. And we had Francis McDormand and Amy Adams, Kieran Hines and Shirley Henderson, Mark Strong, like some amazing people. And it was a small period comedy that we made at Ealing Studios in London. And I, this is what I was always tell people as well. Like, I've always reinvested in my career and spent the money and just kept going. And so for that movie, I flew myself to New York for the screening.

There was no, like, big premiere, but there was a New York screening. Flew myself to New York. And then after New York, flew myself to L.A. I stayed with Amy and her then boyfriend at their house in L.A. And took meetings, got my manager then. And then did some pilot auditions that year, I think. And then the next year I came back, did some pilot auditions. got tested on a couple of things

and then the next year I came back I got luck which was the HBO show that started my whole journey here but I mean continued my journey here yes I am luck was like I mean I thought that was that was it that was like I'm on an HBO this is my first American television show

I'm on the director like casting Michael man Dustin Hoffman Nick Nolte like Dennis Farina like yeah how does that not become a hit so there was a lot of reasons I think at the end of the day but like it was milch and it was David milch and it was very dense dialogue and it was very um

you know you required something of you to really get into it and and learn the ins and outs of horse racing and wasn't easy to learn the lines probably well not well I was also playing cajian in that which is a whole other thing and and I didn't even know so I went down to louisiana and spent some time out there to understand what that meant and who these people are you had a cajan accent yeah can you still do it uh a little bit maybe What is a Cajun accent? Well, it's like half French. It's a lot of French in there.

So, um, oh my gosh. They talk about, you know, so they, okay, so I went, I went to spend some time with a family down there and we went out to there. They had crayfish fields and, um, in, uh, in Louisiana. I can't remember the exact place, but I hung out for them with the weekend and, and the guy took me out on his gator, his, uh, like, forward thing. And, uh, and he was taking me out to the fields. And he was like, and that's where I hit the alligator with the spade.

But he kept. comments, I had to hit him again. And I'm like, well, I'm not in England anymore. Like, this is crazy. That's great. It was a whole thing. But it's really cool culture, like great food and, but a very, like, tough people. And so that was like something else. So I wasn't really, I was playing American, but it was like a certain type of American. And then John Ortiz played my trainer and he was Peruvian. And then you had all this like dense dialogue and you had Nick Nolte during the Nignolte. Wait, what's Nick saying? How is he?

great man like I was um it's also kind of blasphemers maybe but like I was so excited to work with Nick because and I only had like one or two scenes with him and one or two scenes with Dustin and Dustin's amazing love him great great man great career but I was more impressed with working with Nick just because um Dustin was more of a character character acted to me and Nick represented to me like an old Hollywood leading man like gruff like guy that doesn't really exist anymore. Just a dude that's just

you know, that's what I do. Yeah. And I was a huge fan of 48 hours. Oh, yeah. Huge 40 hours fan. Best scene is when he's with Eddie Murphy. And he goes, Jack. Tell me a story.

Fuck you, convict. Oh, that's one of my favorites. That movie is just it's so good. Genius. Walter Hill. Yeah. Inside you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this.

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rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals they'll even talk to customer service thank god so you don't have to um i don't know how many times we talk about this but like you know you got it and they helped you in so many ways and with these subscriptions that you think are like oh it's a one month subscription for free and then you pay well we forget we want to watch a show on some streamer, and then we forget, and now we owe $200 by the end of the year. They're there to make sure those things don't happen, and they will save you money. You know, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job.

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That's BOMBAS.com and use code audio at checkout. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true story. behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off,

we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. We had Walter Hill was involved in... I'm getting him on the podcast. Oh, dude. he's great and he was involved in luck as well we had we had walter hill involved we had eric roth involved we had all these like insane people we would do these readings of the episodes

and you'd have all of the lead actors sat around the table and michael and eric roth would come in and all these people and then we would go for coffee on bundy like breakfast on bundy with farina and i was i was honestly i was 27 but i was kind of still too young to take it all in and and nowadays i would like have more reverence for all of it but then I was like flying by the seat of my pants 27 just like you thought this was it oh and then I was like this this is it I'm made and they just how many they make so we made I think 10 for the first season and we were we had shot one of the second season and then there was various things going on the horses we had a couple horses breakdown had to be euthanized and I just think that it and TMZ was

on our ass about that and then I think um we just weren't popular enough and the show I think was very expensive. Like if you went to the parking lot, you had the three huge, like, tour bus trailers, like one for Dustin, one for Michael and one for David Milch, like just lined up in it. Oh, you didn't get one. I didn't at that point. I don't remember if I had a two bang or three bang at that point. But, um, no, I was just, that was a great thing. But then that got canceled. And honestly, I was, I was, I was in one scene in the first episode of season two. And I was like, okay. Six months of one or two scenes an episode is not great. And then we got cancelled. And then I was able to do a movie, which was another big step in my career. And also I was at the center of this

Hollywood whirlwind of like everyone, the best thing was at that time was to walk into meetings and have people ask me what Michael Mann was like. I'm like, oh, people want to ask me about stuff now. Like, this is cool. People want to know, like, what this experience was like. So that kind of gave me like a nice spring to my step. And then I was able to go to Europe and do a movie, which was my first lead in a movie with Stellan Skarsgaard and Ben Kingsley. And that was my first big lead. That was three months in Germany and Morocco. And that was a whole other experience.

And that was a movie that I was like, and this is it. This is going to change my career. This is my first big league. So, yes, I see all these projects that you think on paper should be huge successes. Yeah. Ben Kingsley, Nick Nolte, Dustin Hoffman. It did great. You know, at that point I had moved to America.

It helped you. It helped me in a lot of different ways, but I had moved to America at that point, and I was like, luck, and this is America, and we're doing America. And then that movie came out, and it did really well in Europe, nothing in America. Nobody, nobody cares. And it's kind of, you know, Walking Dead. Walking Dead was another huge deal, and it was my first big thing after that movie. I think I got, it was the first big thing?

Yeah, I think so. And same kind of thing. Walking Dead, biggest show in the world. bigger show in the world when I joined it there is nowhere in the world you can go and not be recognized especially since I had long hair and a beard of very recognizable hugely successful now that was a real beard

yeah I would not the first season it was fake first season was fair yeah and the hair I had extensions but I grew the beard out and then the extensions grew less and less while I was on the show but huge thing this is amazing industry doesn't care you know you're like it's the biggest literally the biggest show in the world

industry doesn't care I'm like wow this is another lesson Like, you know, you're on top of the world. This is great. I get recognized everywhere. This is definitely raising my profile. Huge fan base. I didn't think of it like that.

It's wild. It, like Instagram account. The fans are nuts. They love the show. It's everywhere. You go to cons. They just embrace you guys. But you're saying the industry doesn't really give a shit.

It definitely didn't. You're in a hit show and you're seen by all these people. Millions of people. Why wouldn't they want to put you in a movie or another TV show immediately? Because all those fans are going to. want to see what you're doing. And that's what would make sense to me. Yeah.

But it's, you know, industry can be funny like that, you know, and then you can, or you can be on a show like Succession, which, which I enjoyed and I thought was great. But compared to like Walking Dead, like, nobody watched it. No. But the industry loved it. Yeah. So, I mean, that just happens. Succession is too much for me.

It's too much stress. I can't watch it. I have dysfunction growing up. I don't need that. Yeah, I know. It's fine. I don't need it. I'm sure it's great.

Yeah, yeah. You know. It's very British. You can tell it's written by a British person. and but with American accents. Right. Like for us, it's like a black comedy. Yeah.

Did you hate wearing that beard in the first season? Yes. I hate fake facial hair. But did you hate it because when you saw it, you're like, oh, it's fake? Yes. I sign those photos from the first season at conventions and I hate it. But it's the most recognizable version of me and it's when people first met me on the show. And I had a really great first episode that was very memorable.

So people like really remember that. but yeah I obviously I'm like this is terrible but I obviously and I can I mean it does look different the other seasons but people remember that and you know I had shit ton of extensions and how long were you in makeup I can't remember like at least an hour 45 minutes well we had the the FX team I got passed them to the FX team to do that and we ended up cutting it into like five different sections it was really wild I got cast on a a Wednesday no I got cast on a Friday. I was in London. My wife, girlfriend at the time was in Stockholm. I flew to Stockholm to see her that weekend.

And then I flew to London to be fitted for the, they had the beard made in London. And then I flew to Atlanta and I was filming on the Wednesday. It was really quick. Every, but everything like, were you nervous? Um, yes. I had not worked for a year before that. So you felt like, do I have it still? I just, my first proper scene. First scene was like me unconscious in a car, but my first proper scene with Andrew Lincoln and Norman. So the two biggest guys on the show. And the whole episode is just me and them. And isn't it like in a town, if I remember? It's like a little,

Sonoya they shoot at that, which is like an hour south of Atlanta where they have the studios and where they shoot everything. So it's nice because you're kind of away, way from L.A., way from New York, just in your own bubble. But my first, I've been, my character's been running. and I like appear in front of them and we at Kari Skoglund directed that who's wonderful director who's doing amazing now and she was really good to me on the episode and she came in

and was just like just a little bit quieter and more real because I was like I'm running and I was like shouting at my first like hey guys I'm like okay this is way too big way too big like but that's how you kind of felt like a real person would do it but then you have to come down

to TV movie world you're like where normally you'd say like no don't do do it. And then you're like, no, don't do it. A little bit. And also like the show, that was season six and the show had kind of found its groove and found its style. And everyone kind of had their lane that they were occupying. And so you had to kind of fit in to that aesthetic. Were there egos? I mean, yeah, everyone has an ego. Especially when it's the biggest television show in the world. So definitely people, like I said, had fallen into lanes of like this is what the show is and this is

where we are. You can just tell their sort of swagger, like, yeah, I'm on a big hit show. I think it affected some people that I was like, it's a TV show. Yeah. Like, and I, and I did, I did respect it, absolutely. Um, but I definitely always had the attitude of it's a TV show. It's a TV show. Um, and I think, those people. Yeah, yeah. You liked everybody. Go along. No, I and we spend a lot of time together outside of the show at conventions. We're going to see sure, you know, forever, I think at this point. Um, and I've seen, forever and ever, you know, just that's a good thing. It, no, it is great. And it's, it's, it's, it's great. And it's, it's, it's, it's, It's a very singular experience.

Being on a show like that, which is so big doesn't happen to everyone. You know, like Game of Thrones or Walking Dead, like, you've only had that experience with those people. So it's cool to reminisce. But it's weird now because like even like the luck experience, I'm like, I was still unaware. Like when you're in it, you're kind of unaware of how big it is. If I'm honest right now, I'd be like, damn, I should have made more money.

Like outside of the show, you know, just like, damn. Like I did a bunch of conventions and it was great and we made money. that's honestly how about my house. But like, I damn, I should have like done other stuff just while that show was the hottest show in the world. Yeah. Just milk it and milk it. Well, hindsight's 2020. Absolutely. Then you have a fallow period. You're like, damn. You know who I always liked is briefly is the character, Eugene, Josh McDermott. Yeah, Josh McDermott. He seems funny. I always want to get him on the podcast. Josh is funny. He's very, he's the driest human being you will ever meet. So he makes jokes just like, I'm on the floor. Absolutely. And I, I am very

gullible. So he would always mess with you. Like, oh my God. And he's so good at it. Like, he's very good at a straight. I'm terrible at a straight face. And like, he's just very, very good at it. And yeah, he's great. And he's very different to his character. Like, he played a, you know, he's a, um, he's a comedian. You know, he did stand up and everything. And like, he's, he's very capable person. Were you surprised because your death kind of came out of nowhere. Uh, the fans were kind of like, what, whoa, what they weren't expecting it at all. And in the comics you don't die right right yeah so were you super how when did you know about it um i think i think the episode before maybe um but but honestly i've been i've spoken about this a lot like

i have been on the show for three years at that point it's the longest i've ever been on a show you were good yeah it was good i was really honestly good and i i just want to tell a good like i don't i'm not precious about it like if it's if it's my time to go it's my time to go uh just make it cool. And it was cool. Yeah, I was, I was really happy with it. Honestly, was really happy with it. And when I have fans come up to me, go, oh, like, I was really sad. I was like, yeah, that's good. That's how you meant to feel. Did you cry when it was over? No. I had a little bit of, because it was, you know, such an intense experience, I did have a little bit when I gave my little speech on set. A little emotional. I was like, oh, this is the last

time I'll do this. Did you say it in English or an American accent? English, I think. There's a video of it somewhere. There's a video of it. I don't know. You don't know what? You did. No. I think English. That's pretty amazing. What about Kevin Costner's... Dude, I... That I did cry. I am... Because my friend Michael Rooker's in that, right? Yeah, I love Michael. Yeah. Because he's been kind of filming that for a while. Yeah. How long did you film that? What's it called? Is it called... It's called Horizon. Horizon and American Saga. And it's part one and part two. And it's coming out the summer. June and August, yeah. It sounds amazing. It's like old school

filmmaking. I... So Kevin's been working on that project since the 80s, I think. at this point. And it started off as one movie and over the years has grown and grown. And he finally got the opportunity to make it. And I found myself out in the wilds of Utah. My story takes place within the wagon train portion. It's really this like sprawling tale of the American West in the 1800s. And yeah, I'm on the wagon train. So I'm just standing there in my costume with all the wagons and the horses. And, and I got emotional because it's just like, Like, everything that you think a movie is when you're a kid and you want to be in the movies. And you're just standing there and I, I just couldn't believe it.

I was like, wow, I'm here. You know, and I'm like, it's very ensemble. It's very ensemble. Like, I'm one of the actors in it, amongst many others. And I think I worked a total of two weeks, maybe. Oh, no, I think a week, like a week straight because they shot, you know, set in sections for different. storylines. I think I shot a week straight for the first one. And then that was it. You know, you go, you have this experience. How was Kevin? Amazing. He's very subtle. I remember I auditioned

for the postman and I went to his hotel room. Mrs. Eons ago. And he goes, yeah, just sit on the floor with me. Sit on the floor. Yeah, all right. Let's just hang out and we're going to read the scene a couple times and we'll just talk and was there for like a half an hour and 40 minutes. He's like, all right, man. How'd you do? How'd you like that? It was great. Thanks, Kevin. He's like, hey, nice to meet you man I didn't get it but it was really a great it was a great time he was a great guy amazing I you know when I got the role um I think my manager just kind of pitched me for it basically and the casting director like me and then it was like okay so Kevin wants to meet you and I was at my family home uh in Bath where I come from and uh I went up to the top of the house to

my dad's office to zoom with the casting director and Kevin and you know turn on the turn on the screen casting director's like okay um and here's Kevin, and we're just going to leave you guys to it. I was like, okay. And then we had a chat. Hey, bud, how are you? Yeah. And I'm used to, like, pitching myself, you know, like, I love the script and like this

and this and this and this. And through our conversation, halfway through I realized, shut the fuck up. Yeah. Shut up because he's trying to sell it to you. He was like telling me about the film and like, it's going to be this and it's going to be that. And I would, and he finished like, and I would love you to join us. And inside I'm going, what?

Like, you're offering me. That's so. And I was like, oh my God, I would love to Kevin. That would be amazing. And I, and then we stopped the call and I went down. My wife was giving my son a bath. And I was like, Kevin Kossner just offered me a job. It was like the most surreal experience.

And then a few months later, we're on set in Utah and he's directing. And it was just a wild experience. And everyone was so happy to be there because it's such a passion project for him. And you could just feel that a lot of time and effort had gone into all parts of it. everyone was so happy to be there and excited to help Kevin achieve his how old is you now 70 I'm not going to guess uh I think he's done in 60s I don't know I'm looking it up right now I'm not gonna hazard I guess maybe maybe 70 I don't know he's he's just one of the all time great I'm gonna say 72 I mean 69 69 there you go he just turned 69 so I didn't um yeah he's also like from my

childhood he has seven children yeah I know can you imagine having two children So, Stellan, who I also work with, I think, has eight or nine. What? Because in Sweden, it's easier. Because in Sweden, the government helps you a lot more than they help you here. Like, you get, like, honestly, like, with my wife and I, like, having more kids, we have considered, like, where can we be? Where can we be?

Because America doesn't help you at all. And they just, like, charge you through the ass to have kids. Every step of the way, it's kind of nuts. What, what do you think is like, you know, we talk about all these great moments and like your career building and like working with all these great people, but also have you had those tough moments? I mean, you're at 40, 41? 41. What's the toughest time you've had so far? And, you know, because on this show, we could talk a lot about mental health and, you know, helps a lot of people.

But is there something that was a tough time to get through and you needed to work through it? I was very go, go, go throughout my 20s. and kind of into my 30s as well and like always looking forward always keep moving, keep moving. The first time that I ever really had a breakdown that I couldn't deal with was shooting that movie The Physician

because it was 65 days I think and I was in every single day and I had never done that before. Exhausted. It just physically, yeah, you get up every day and you're doing it and it's great but about halfway through that movie I kind of fell apart

and had a bit of a breakdown I was in a previous relationship, and that was also very taxing on me. I was in a kind of a carer role in that relationship. She had joined me on the film, and halfway through, I had this breakdown, and I realized, like, oh, I can't go to you, so I went somewhere else. And then that movie, like, kind of that, and that movie signaled the end of that relationship kind of thing, which, you know, I kind of committed Harry Carey on that. You know, I was like, okay, I need to get out of this. in a very destructive way. Self-sabotized.

Yeah, and I absolutely did, because I honestly was too cowardly to get out of it in any other way and I had so much going on and I was like, okay, I'm just going to do something bad. When you're young, you learn from those things. Absolutely. But I would never get into that situation again.

Right. I had been in that relationship from 19 for a long time through my growth into an adult. And actually, I would argue that I didn't really grow into an adult until that relationship ended. um and i had done that movie and then i went through a lot of looking at myself and and um my now wife has really helped me to grow as a person and basically because she questioned me

and like was like why why are you doing this pattern of behavior and she broke up with me like we went we dated for a bit and then she broke up and was like you're not ready for this and i was like oh shit i really want to be with this because you don't know how to to just yeah i was still being a bit destructive and and not respecting her i was still because i functionally was just growing and Like, and, but I knew that I didn't want to lose that person as well. So there was a lot of stuff going on, but I knew that I wanted to have children with this person. And I, like, deep down, I was like, this is the person. Shit, I got to figure this out. So I did. I took some time. And, and, you know, you just have to deal with some home truths and, and be honest with the person

that you're, you know, you're in a relationship with as well. And if you're lucky, that person is capable of helping you through that. Not that you should rely on the other person and just put out of your stuff. Knowing you can count on them. Yes. That's important. Knowing count on them and knowing that they have your best interests. Yeah. And that they're not using you as a crutch or vice versa. Yeah. You know, you know what sucks is like sometimes it takes hitting rock bottom before we make a change. And you don't want to get to rock bottom to make the change because rock bottom could mean devastation in many different ways. And whether you completely lose someone or you're responsible for someone or your behavior is respond it's it's it's the toughest

but if you could somehow that's why i always say get in a therapy talk to somebody uh you know work on yourself because you don't want to get there you don't want to go no i'm fine fine fine until you're so not fine that you're really in a bad place that it's going to take a lot more effort to get out of it so but at least i mean but you learn from it. You learn from it and you can also see, you know, the only way is up from rock bottom as well. And you can really like, if you're not completely destroyed, like you can, you can work a way up again. I just realized, well, not realized, but I just remembered like the reason I had a bit of a breakdown, that movie, I got to the end of that movie and then I realized I had to confront the relationship and like, okay, we have to end this. And it was painful for a lot of different reasons. But one of the main.

major ones was that it was the first thing that I had ever failed at. Wow. Yes. I had never, because there were issues in the relationship and there were issues with the person and I was waiting for the person to get better and I was like, I can help this person and then I realized I couldn't and I would never be able to fully help this person. And so I had to exit the relationship and it was the first thing that I couldn't get through. And I had failed. I was like I and I've never felt like that before because I've always like go I'm doing this and my career was on the up and everything was working and and this is you know this will be fine this will be fine and then I had to admit it would never be fine and maybe I wasn't the person to help

this person you know and I really and I remember you get all those really dark thoughts and like comes up from your guts and it's just like oh well they say every terrible every great you know mind um says that the only way to truly succeed is to fail yeah yeah you have to fail time and time again and some people who haven't had real failure it hurts and it sucks and the older you get the worse it is but if you can get through that which you will yeah yeah mostly unless you kill someone that's utter failure no but you you should it should make you a better person you should come out of it stronger and wiser and you're right you will you know you will if you can just keep going and it's the hardest thing but if you keep going you know five years from now 10 years from now

and you'll look back and you'll be in a much greater position and you were in every way you know yeah all right this is called shit talking with tom pain this is uh my um patrons go to patron dot com slash inside of you thank you for the support they support the show they get to ask some questions and uh you ready okay but if you don't like them you can just see. Sure. Beat it. Meg Kay,

prodigal son, still gutted over the cancellation. You're phenomenal as Malcolm. The way mental illness was portrayed was just fantastic. Was it conscious choice on your part or the writer's part to show Malcolm not only taking his meds,

but showing the bottles on camera considering it's not something that has been done a lot? I just did a convention last weekend where this girl came up to me and said, it meant a lot to me that Malcolm was on exactly the same medication that I'm on.

And I met a lot of people through the show online, but also in real life, in person. And it's helped them immensely to show someone struggling with mental illness on TV. And in a way that, yeah, the show was funny and it was scary and all these things. But at the heart of it, this character was dealing with very real problems that would manifest in different ways. And it became apparent to me while we were. shooting and the show started to air how many people were dealing with similar issues and and i think it's amazing that's why we do what we do you know it's holding a mirror up to life and and showing people that you can get through it yeah i'm gonna let you go but what can we expect

what's coming up imaginary's coming up so imaginary is out uh march 8th march 8th in theaters too in theaters which is so cool that's so exciting so this is my first uh american studio release I've never been in an American studio movie, and I have two coming out this year. So I'm super excited about that. And I'm on the train, the promotional train. I'm like, oh, wow, lines gay, you know, sending me out to all these things, it's really cool. Yeah, that's really cool.

And the horizon's coming out. Horizon, an American saga, parts one and two, June and August. June and August. I mean, what else? Well. Prodigal son? No. That's gone.

That is gone. That is gone. That became a, um, that's, that became a, um, uh, that's a rights issue, I think, because Fox owns some of it, Warner Brothers own some of it. It was on Hulu. It was on HBO Mac. It was like, how do we get all of this together and sell it on? It's probably a lot of work, too.

A lot of work. Yeah. And then when everything falls out, all the actors are out of contract and how do you get everyone together again? And it just becomes a bit of a struggle in that sense. But I would, you know, that show was, I mean, that was my show. It was really cool. Yeah. Well, you know, you're a great guy and a talented guy.

By the way, did you do any impressions? No, I mean, no, no. You don't? Because you do accents so effortlessly. Yeah, I think I'm a pretty good mimic, but I don't have anything in my, in my back pocket. So if I did an impression, you could, like, mimic that? Sure, sure. All right.

Maybe. Your son, fuckhead that he is. Okay, I need to know. That's, maybe that's too. Tom. Yo, you're a great guy, Tom. Tom. You're a great guy, Tom.

That's pretty good. Yeah, and you just off the cup. Dude, my favorite Chris Walken is in seven psychopaths. I didn't see it. Oh, dude, it's great. So the guy comes out to him is like, yo, put your fucking hands up. And he goes, no. He's like, why?

I don't want to. It's so good. I don't want to. I don't want to. I'm like, oh, it's so good. He's great. That is, I mean, I've been trying to work on my Harrison Ford. It's hard that I can.

You know, my son's called Harrison. He is? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's kind of Harrison. It's definitely related to Harrison Ford. Right there. I went to the Yellowstone. not Yellowstone, the 1923 premiere,

just because I wanted to be in the same room as Harrison Ford. And then it was good. Look, yeah. He's the best. My brother and I have started to put together projects, and it's a lot inspired by the Indiana Jones movies. Like, we want to, like, bring back stories and adventure stories. Good.

And a lot of that is just great. You know, the Indiana Jones movies are great. And I used to say there are only three. I saw the most recent one, and there could be four now. I don't know. You know, I like, I liked one and two. I like Temple of Doom and Raiders. Yeah, me too. Those are my favorite.

No, I thought it was a little hokey. I remember as a kid going, oh, there's a dad, his dad's in this. I'm not watching this. No, it's pretty good. I just, it's not like the two, other two. You know, and the last one was okay. It was, you know, it was, it was, it was okay. I went, and so people asked me like about conventions, is there anyone that you'd like to meet and stuff?

And it's honestly always taken me by surprise, because I'm not someone who gets starstruck, really. but sometimes you get caught by surprise. So I did a convention a few years ago and John Reese Davis was there. He was just sitting where you are. Oh, he was? Oh, he just had him on. So John, so John is just, my God, he's such,

he's just like, he's like, you should come to the club in London, dear boy. Wait to you listen to him. Oh, I can't wait. On the podcast. I can't wait. I mean, it's epic. Yeah.

It's epic. He is amazing. We talked about Cialis and Boners in the first minute or two. Yeah. Oh, dude. He, if you do a photo with him, he'll, he tickles you. Like, he like, grabs you. Yeah, he was messing with, yeah.

So a lot of the photos of people like, but I did a convention with him years ago and I got, my brother is a huge Indiana Jones fan and I was like, I'm going to get my brother an autographed picture. So I went over and I got him, run from like the Raiders, I think he's like, run. And he finished doing it and he was like,

and would you like one? He looked up with me and I got tearful and he was like, yeah, I would actually. He signed this. He signed my indie. he's just he was so great and i had drinks with him at the bar that night i was like this is it's so bizarre what a nice man he's awesome yeah he's so he was doing um sweet he was doing shots with uh not shots photo photo photographs with andy circus last weekend because they were both

in i mean lord of the rings yeah like indiana jones and then lord of the rings like yeah he's got it made as far as conventions go he's got it made and sliders as well he did the whole tv yeah tv thing you did what else did you do skins you did skins you did skins too too, right? Yeah. Somebody else was just on skins. Nicholas Holt. Oh, you had Nick. He was here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's taken over your partner. I know this son of a bitch. I just, James just posted a picture of the mall. And Nick has his shaved head. What's that? James just posted a picture of the mall. Oh, he did. Yeah, Nick has his sent me a picture and I didn't obviously didn't post it. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. But he's buzz cut, right? Yeah, I think so. You did, do you bowl cap all the time? No, I shaved it. Oh, you did. Seven years. I shaved it. Wow. Yeah. Because you just. Because that's they wanted and it was better yeah it's always better in the end i realized it would have taken

longer i have a movie that uh uh i'm hopefully going to do at the end of this year and i want to shape my head in it is my wife is just like you should do that something you haven't done exactly and it feels great you'll love it just for a movie yeah 100% do it i've never done it and i like it's a look that i haven't done i'm yeah yeah you do it 100% yeah you like it this has been great yeah yeah yeah thanks man this is awesome i'm i could talk for england so i love it i love it Still forever. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision.

They slow down the progression of myopia. So your child can continue to discover all the world has to offer through their own eyes. Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLOR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. Tom Payne, you know, his agents or his public publicists, publicists, they message me and I didn't really know Tom very well. But then I looked at his stuff and I said, you know, his wiki page and started to delve into some of the way. And I was like, this guy's good.

And it was great having him over because I really enjoyed having him over and he's a very talented guy. So thank you, Tom, for coming over and doing the podcast. And a reminder, if you like this podcast, go to my Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum and you go to the link tree and there's so much stuff going on in my world, cons and cameos and all that stuff. A lot of fun. And in the Talkville pod, if you haven't listened to the Talkville pod, Ryan's on that. Brian has a great time, don't you?

I have a wonderful time on the Topville pod. You do. You become a star. I don't go that far, but, yeah. Well, people know you. People know me. the people beyond my close circle of friends know me do you have a cold me yeah no you look a little congested a little congested i had to get up early today we had a 10 a m interview yeah well i got up at seven because i felt like such crap waking up i you know when i eat like shit ryan i had a cheeseburger

and fries for dinner or a soda which is i shouldn't i know and then i had popcorn and i wake up and I'm like, oh, why do I feel like crap? I don't know, because you ate like crap. Your car's not going to run well if you put crap into it. Crappy gas. Gas crap. Gas crap. So it's like what I said.

You know, so I wake up and I take some of my athletic greens and I have a salad and I start the day off right, but I have to finish the day right. It's true. It's true. A lot of emphasis on starting the day right, not enough on finishing it right. Yeah. Let's see if that works. Huh.

You know what I'm saying? I think you just stumbled on something. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, thanks for listening. I always appreciate it. And thanks to my top tier patrons and all my patrons. Honestly, every patron.

Thank you for the support. Patreon.com slash inside of you. We are now going to give the top tier patrons a shout out as one of the perks. Here we go. Nancy Day. D. Bad start. Lee and Kristen, Little Lisa, Ukeko.

Hi, Ukiko, thanks for still being here. And Jill E and Brian H and Nico P and Robert B and Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C. You're welcome. Jennifer N. Stacey L. Jamal F. Janelle B. Mike E. Eldon Suprem. Give it with love.

Like love. 99 more. Santiago M. You're listening to 94 7, The Wave. Leanne P, Maddie S, Belinda and Dave H, Brad D. Wait, Dave H. Dave H, Dave H, Dave H, Dave H, Dave H, Michael. It's only Dave H, he's my friend.

Ain't they? Yeah, yeah. Brad D. Ray Hareda. Tab of the T, Tom, N, Talia, M, Betsy D. Haven't talked to my Betsy in a while. Rian and C. Corey K, Dev Nexon, Michelle A, Jeremy C, Brandy D, Mr. M., Eugene, and Leah.

Mel S. Christine S. Eric H. This one goes out to Shane R. Andrew M. says he's real sorry. Oracle. He read his Oracle and realized that Amanda R and Kevin E. No. It's Stephanie K. And Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Mike F. Stone H. Brian L.

Jules M. Jessica B. Kyle F. Caley J. Brian A. Marion Louise L. Romeo the band, Frank B, Jen, T, Nicky L, here on 95.5. April, RM. I wonder what RM stands for. April, right here, right, meow. I think that's it. Randy S, Oral P, Rachel D, Melissa H, Nick W, Stephanie in Evan, or seven.

Charlene A. Don G. Jenny B., John, Jennifer R. Tina E. N.G. Tracy. Tasha S. Keith B. Anna M. Waffles. I just did a Zoom with all my top tiers last week. And it was awesome to see them. And I sent a picture to all of them. And it was a blast. So thank you. And thank you for listening today. And that's really all I got, Ryan. That's it. That's it. Hey, cool sweater. Yeah. It's sweetness. It's Walter Payton. Yeah. I like it. It's comfortable. Yeah. It's really comfortable. These sweatshirts are. freaking comfortable. Maybe they can sponsor. Yeah, maybe.

Brought you by comfortable sweatshirts. From Michael Rosenbaum in the Hollywood Hills of California. I'm Ryan Taze and also the dogs are here. The dogs are here. They're making their presence known. A little wave to the camera. Guys, thanks again and be good to yourself. Football season is here.

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