Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - True Blood’s DEBORAH ANN WOLL: Confidence Log

Episode Date: November 15, 2022

Deborah Ann Woll (True Blood, Daredevil) joins us this week to share her process as an actor in taking pride and enjoyment in your performance, but not lingering on it after the fact and letting the opinions of others make you defensive in your next role. This idea of other’s opinions gets expanded as Deborah shares her experience being bullied as a teenager and how the isolation and trauma still lingers with her to this day. We also talk unfinished Marvel projects with Daredevil and the Punisher, guarding your confidence, and the legacy of True Blood. Thank you to our Sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/insde ⛑️ First Alert: firstalert.com/firepreventionmonth 🦎 Geico: https://geico.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's me do with a Max Hedrum. Thanks for listening. Thanks for making this podcast. You know, one of the podcasts that you listen to and taking the time. Really appreciate it. We love having you here. And if you're here for Deborah Ann Wall and you're like, I don't care. I just want to hear it.

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about her being bullied you know her from true blood uh was really awesome to talk to her and she opens up and i think you're going to really dig this so without further ado let's get inside deborah And Wall. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Inside of You is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money.

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in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. You know, right before you came here, Yeah. By the way, I was going to get around and say right before you got here, Deb.

I can be Deb. Are you serious? Yeah, Deb is fine. I thought for sure you would hate Deb. No, I'm okay with Deb. I don't like Debbie. That's the only one I don't like. Really?

Yeah, only my grandmother. Debbie, could you get me some more, Deb? Why would she talk like that? She did not talk like that. How did she talk? I don't know. She grew up in Buffalo and lived in Long Island. I lived in Long Island.

Yeah, we're on Long Island. Yeah. So my. My mother, both my parents are from Buffalo, New York, but my mother moved to Huntington. My husband grew up in Dix Hills. Dix Hills. So we have a lot of family on the Long Island. And then I'm from Brooklyn.

You're from Brooklyn. Before you got here, I was teaching Ryan how to do a Christopher Walken impression. I've been doing it since probably 97. And a lot of people do it the wrong way. Okay. You know, they're usually like, hello, now, hello, and everything. That's pretty good to me. No, it's not how it is.

Because Walkin's very subtle, you know, he's like, Your son, fuckhead, that he is. And I was teaching him right before you came. And I think it helps. Can you do impressions? How is it right? No, I am not good at impressions. You don't think you could do it?

Never been my thing, no. Just try to find like in the back of your like throat, she's going to go, your son. Your son. Not bad. I don't know. Yeah. I don't feel. I've never been a mimic.

It's never been something I've been good at. You don't have a good ear? No, no. I do not have a good ear for that stuff. I'm not good at accents. It takes me a long time to work that stuff out. Can you sing? I have a nice sounding voice.

I would not say that I'm a singer. I'm not trained or anything like that, but I could carry a tune. You can carry a tune. Yeah. That's good, yes. So you've done obviously a lot of stuff. We were like true blood, daredevil, the defenders,

the Punisher series, your host of a Dungeons and Dragons show. I mean, we're going to get into it. I said True Blood, Good Lord. Yeah, well, I just got back from doing, from Barting in San Diego this summer. So I was doing Taming of the Shrew at the Old Globe. You and your theater, you're hearing you back to the roots.

My theater is the thing I always really wanted to do with my career. So while, like, the TV and the film has been incredible and such a journey, it felt a little bit like a side path to the thing I really wanted to do. So being able to go do that this summer was really special. Well, I have a theory. Yeah. Tell me if I'm wrong. Okay. Some people say, no, I just always wanted to be an actor.

I didn't care about fame. I wanted it because I loved being an actor. And I think it's kind of bullshit. I think there is always like a little glimmer or a little morsel of, I want to be good where I'm famous. If you're good at what you do, there's a good chance you'll be famous. See, that's where I disagree with you. I disagree with me. There's a strong part of me. Yes, my ego absolutely wants people to think that I'm good, that I'm talented, that I'm artistic, that I'm a deep thinker, all of those things, right? I want to be those things and I want people to think of me that way.

Okay. However, I know so many incredible. incredibly talented people who never get recognized. Well, I know that. On a higher level. So I think, I think wanting fame and wanting people to think you're good can be two different things. I just feel like if you want people to think you're good, well, you want people to think you're great.

I want people think I'm great. You want. By getting that reciprocated. Yes. Like the feeling is validation that I am good. I am great. And I think a lot of people need that. Yeah. Some people say, don't worry about what everybody else thinks. Don't worry. And it's such

poor shit. It's impossible not to think about what everybody thinks of you. Now, you can't obsess over it. But if you do a play, you can. You can. You can. But I think, you know, when I was doing theater in college and I was doing plays and stuff, and I realized, wait a minute, I got something here. The teachers are paying attention to me, other classmates. I'm getting cast as the lead role. People are, there's things going on. I'm like, hey, But that feels good. It feels good. And it's like, maybe this is my key to getting famous.

Well, but I think that's because I can genuinely say for me, maybe because I'm a bit introverted or a bit nervous around people, the idea of being known is a little bit fraught. Define fraught. I mean, scary on a certain level. The idea that people would have thoughts about me outside of my control or outside of, what I feel is real, that they're going to think things. I mean, I was very, very badly bullied when I was younger. And so that, I think, contributes to this idea that I don't want anyone to ever ever think anything bad about me or anything. So fame comes with all of these people that, you know, fame is just notoriety. It's not good or bad, right? And so all of that accolades

that come with that also come, hey, Deborah Ann Mole and, you know, big teeth or all. all of the things that people want to say about how you look or your or your talent she's not good she's annoying she's all of those things so i don't know that part i don't i don't want the fame part enough to take on the other half of the do you read reviews no i stopped that a very very long time ago why did you stop because you read a bad review no because i just know me i know that i would not be able to handle it you'd pick it apart i would pick it apart and i think and i'm definitely the kind a person who would not remember the good stuff and would only remember the bad stuff. I don't watch my own work.

I haven't done that. Really? Years and years and years. Do you know, I had one interviewer, one review say something like, I did this movie. And it was actually a really funny, funny movie called Hit and Run. Very funny movie. My friend Dax directed it. Yeah.

Did a great job. He was the lead. I thought he was great. And Tom Arnold, who I thought was great. And like, most of the reviews were good. And this one reviewer said, Dax Shepard isn't funny. Tom Arnold has never been funny.

And Michael Rosenbaum will never be funny. What? And I go, what? I just started laughing. I'm like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Wow. I mean, he's got it personally for me. Personally for all of us.

This guy was going in wanting to hate the movie and didn't like us already. Right. So you can't pay attention to that stuff. But like, I mean, it was just like, I saved it. I have it. And he will never be funny. That is amazing. You saved it.

Oh, yeah, you got to save stuff like that. But you don't watch yourself. No, it makes me defensive. I don't want to be a defensive actor. I don't want to be thinking about all the stuff that I didn't like when I watched it before. I want to be free and let a director and an editor and someone else worry about that. But you got nominated for a Screen Actors Guild Award for True Blood. Well, as an ensemble.

You know, that was for all of us altogether. Okay. That's true. But you have to think if you're nominated. for something, you're probably pretty damn good. I got to say, again, my husband and I were just talking about this last night. I don't know. I kind of think award shows are bullshit. They are. I don't watch them. It's just, it's really, it's moneymaking, it's promotion. It's, you know, again. It's all, yeah. And that's not to say that if you win one, you're not good. Like, it's a,

it's a scam. A lot of really wonderful actors win awards and are nominee for words and great shows or upper things. But again, there's so much incredible work that never ever gets lifted to that level. And I even look at something like True Blood and Daredevil. And while it wasn't always the greatest, there are moments where I go, shit, we really found something cool here. And it would never be considered merely because of the genre element of it. Right. Isn't that shit? Yeah. So there's certain things that cross over that, either because of what the material they're based on or things like that. But it's rare.

So yeah, so at a certain point, I think to be healthy in this business, you do have to go, I am sad. if I felt like I did great work, which is why I stopped watching, because at the end of the day, I would go home and go, wow, I had a real experience. I had a real moment. I got to watch my co-star do something spectacular. And we created a great moment. From this point on, I don't decide the music. I don't decide the cut. I don't decide the color correction. I don't decide any of it. I just have to go home and it goes into someone else's hands. So watching it later and going, ooh, I don't like the way I sound or the way I look. or the choice that they chose there or the choice that I made just ruins that wonderful day that I had where I thought I was great. Okay. So it's better for me to kind of go home

keeping that confidence. And the earlier work that I did, I could feel the self-consciousness creep in and it made me less good. Right, because you're like, oh, I don't like that thing on my face. I don't like when I smile, there's a dimple or something or like, not you, I'm just saying proverbally.

Yeah, preferbuby. But, you know, that's, It is. I will, I'd watch stuff and go, oh, you're bloated. And then that's on your mind the next time you work. Yeah. Versus the story. But maybe it should. Maybe sometimes you watch yourself and go, you need to lose a few pounds, Rosenbaum. You need to work out a little more. Oh, you want to be your shirtless in a scene. You better pump it up. Hey, you, you know, you're not listening there. Listen more. It's almost like critiquing yourself, but also if you can do that constructively. If you can, I think something. people are capable of doing that. I'm not. And also, at a certain point, again, you have to make these decisions. I decided very early on that because I know that my ego will cause insecurity problems for me, that I just have to go, I'm letting it go. I'm never dieting for any of this stuff. I'm never going to worry about any of that. I don't know hair and makeup. That is someone else's department. They're going to do their job and I'm going to trust them. You know, I might have opinions

based on the story I want to tell, but I'm never, I'm going to try not to let vanity control my job. I'm going to make all of my choices based on the story. I want to tell with this. I am going to be in a documentary. And they're going to capture it. And that is just the, the only way I have found for me to successfully do work that I feel is good, at least. Inside of You is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing

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how cool is that monitors you're spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings and you know what's great it works it really works ryan Rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. They'll even talk to customer service. Thank God. So you don't have to. I don't know how many times we talk about this, but like, you know, you got it and they helped you in so many ways.

And with these subscriptions that you think are like, oh, it's a one month subscription for free and then you pay. Well, we forget. We want to watch a show on some streamer. and then we forget, and now we owe $200 by the end of the year. They're there to make sure those things don't happen, and they will save you money. You know, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts,

if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job. how doesn't everybody have rocket money it's insane cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with rocket money download the rocket money app enter my show name inside of you with michael rosenbaum in the survey so they know that i sent you don't wait download the rocket money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show i've had conversations about acting where it's like you know some people are like who cares if it's success or not. You're doing what you love. You're just doing what you love. I go, if I, I don't just want to do anything. Now, I'm very, I'm lucky that I don't have to.

Thank God. But in the beginning, I would do everything. Right. Because you're just building confidence and doing whatever. And it doesn't matter how shitty. And Lord knows I've been on shitty fucking things. Right. Shitty. I mean, like, shitty. And, but then you get to a point where you're like, I want to, I want to do things that really have a chance. that really are, I'm surrounded by really great people. They're putting everything they can into it. There's a passion. I think this could be really good.

Yes. I genuinely, I'm not, you know, there's, and as long as I'm acting, I'm having fun. But if you're on a show and it just is not good and getting not good ratings but staying on the air like a lot of shows do or they do get good ratings. What I'm trying to say is, don't you find it difficult if you're really an actor and you love acting and now you're stuck on something that's really not great? Or would you do something not great just to do it just to act? No, no, no. I mean, the joy of acting is doing great material and having great roles and being challenged in that way. So, no, I mean, I wouldn't

feel happy being stuck on something that wasn't challenging me. However, I did have a teacher say this though I thought was interesting. She sort of said it that for an actor, like the words the writer's job. For an actor, it's everything you don't say. So at the end of the day, like, having a baby is having a baby, whether it's written by Tennessee Williams or the junior writer at the new CW show, you know, like, it's, that's an experience. It's a human experience. And even if your lines are crap, you can fill that experience with your own imagination and your own whatever you bring to it. And so that can, you can kind of make things challenging. Now, again, it is more fun to be challenged by great.

writing and great experiences. But I have found in those circumstances, there are ways to kind of elevate it for yourself. Have you ever done something and you're like, I was, I was fucking great in that? Yeah. And then go, no one cared. No one paid attention. No one noticed me. Never got nothing. All the time. Really? Most of the time I feel that way. Really? Not that most of the time I feel that it was great, but most of the time when I, when I have a great day where I feel like I've done really great work, I feel like it just slides away. you disappointed. Do you want to hear something? Yeah. Yeah. It would be nice. And I think what I do is I try to live on, like, I remember when we were doing True Blood and speaking with some of my other actor friends and talking about insecurities and some of them were at the time like IMDB still had message boards and people would go on and read all of these lonely, angry people who would just say terrible things about you online. And they would go and read it. And I remember sitting down with one of them once and being like, okay, you know, weird guy on the internet and Alan fucking ball who keeps bringing you back and keeps giving you

challenging material and keeps saying that you're the shit right like at a certain point that has to matter more his validation of you has to matter more than this person's and so you know what i tend to thrive on like you know we did an episode on daredevil um that focused on my character karen page we did a whole backstory we took they they i will forever be indebted to eric olson for championing this to the writers, the writer who wrote it. He took the entire crew upstate New York in the snow and did this amazing standalone story about her past. And he collaborated with me on the story and we, you know, I felt involved and creatively fulfilled by it. It was one of the best weeks of my life in my career. Wow. I am so fucking proud of that episode. I still haven't seen

it to this day what they did with it in the end. But the experience that I had and and working with everyone, I'll never forget it. He wrote me and said lovely things. Did anyone ever mention that episode to me outside in the public? Anything like that? No one. No one. But that has to be okay, right?

It has to be okay. That I'm crazy proud, that Charlie was proud of me, that John was proud of me, that John was proud of me, that Eric Olson was proud of me, that, you know, that my husband, my family that these people, you know, were proud and that has to be enough. And what you think it's like, when is enough? What's enough? And ultimately, you know, that we get to a point where like we have to have the confidence and wherewithal to sort of just say, I'm good. Yeah. I know what I'm doing. I'm proud of myself. Moving on. I don't need any external validation. When I've gotten better at because because external validation is a thing that I struggle with, we all do. I've gotten better,

When I have those thoughts where I'm like, God damn it, why couldn't that have been? I go, you know what? Silly Deb. You know, what a silly thought. You know, like this is this person who did all this for you. He wrote this. He set this side of time. He set this budget a time, you know, budget aside, all of this to do this. And that is such a huge vote of confidence that he did that for me. So, you know, I try to hold on to that. I have a little, whenever someone sends me a nice email, I put a little I think I even call it like confidence log or something like that. And whenever I'm having a moment, I'll go read it. That's smart. Yeah. It's generally a lot of stuff from people whose names you might not recognize, but they're very meaningful to me. I like that.

You know, we did a movie together. We did? What movie did we do together? I had one scene with Forrest Whitaker, a big scene and Malin Ackerman. I had one scene with Forrest Whitaker. And that was it. So we didn't work together. Yeah.

But I was in Catch 44. You're in Catch 44. Sure. Hot Louisiana summer. Yeah, interesting, interesting movie. Yeah, interesting little movie. Why didn't we get Oscar nomination for that, Michael? I don't know. I don't know. I asked myself that all the damn time. Tell me about, because you briefly just kind of mentioned it. And I saw some interview with you. It wasn't even an interview. It was more like you talking to people about being bullied and kind of showing support and saying, hey, you're not alone. Take me back. When did the bullying start? It was mostly middle school. You know, those really great foundational years when you're trying to figure out who you are and everything that happens affects who you become for the rest of your life. So you're like 11, 12. Yeah, yeah, right in there. What was it? What were they picking on you about? Do you even know? Well, I mean, that's the that's the big question, right? And I think I spent a lot of time trying to figure that out because if it was something real, then how do you grapple with that? and go, God, I'm just actually an unlikable person who doesn't deserve to have friends. Or you go, all right, maybe everyone is scared and hurt and freaked out at this point in their

lives. And there's a mob mentality. And I was an easy target. You know, I was and probably always will be the kind of person who's going to cry before they fight back. And, you know, that seems to me like a less scary target. So yeah, I think I was an easy target. I think, you know, I was. Why were you an easy target? Because I didn't fight back. Just because you didn't fight back? I would just crumble. You'd cry in front of people.

Yeah. And I think also, you know, I was very young. I wanted to be a kid. I mean, look, I became an actor. I play make believe for my life, right? Like, I enjoy, I play D&D, I play board games. These are my favorite things to do. There's a part of me that very much loves that childlike part of my life.

So I think I wanted to sing and dance in the whole. hallways. I loved learning. You know, I was that kid who was like, yo, teach, you forgot to give us homework because I really wanted to read more of the book, you know. So I was the antithesis of you. I'm sure that you were. You probably would have hated me. No, I wouldn't have hated you. I just wouldn't have known you because you were really smart. Well, it wasn't even smart. You know, I was not a straight A student. I wasn't even the kid who like loved school. I just really like learning and particularly in a certain number of subjects. And unfortunately, my favorite subjects are everybody's least favorite subjects. I love math and science. So I was the kid who really

wanted to excel at math. And so, yeah, I think there were things like that that made me probably a little bit annoying to other kids, which is no excuse. And then I was an easy target. So it's interesting. I've thought a lot back to it because it's like a weird experience of being invisible and totally conspicuous at the same time, like being absolutely, Like, everyone is ignoring you. Everyone. And pretending that you either don't exist or are an annoyance to them. And yet they are so aware of you.

They're so aware that they are choosing to pretend that you either don't exist or aren't there or go out of their way to make you feel less than. Do you ever, to this day, sometimes get lost in thoughts of the past and remember that little girl who was picked on and does it cause you to be emotional? Or do you kind of? I tried. My husband and I tried to watch that Bo Burnham movie 8th grade. I got about 20 minutes into it and just like fell into like ancient heaving sobs that I couldn't. I don't think I could act because they were so deep, you know. And and to get on with your life, you do a lot of things to sort of save yourself. And I'm still to this day trying to get over the coping mechanisms that I used. So, you know, yeah, we stopped that movie. I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever be able to finish it. I kind of know it's the greatest movie ever made because it were there. Do you remember names? Do you remember certain girls or boys? You like you could riff them off just rip, you know, go, because I could

do that too because I was picked on a little bit too. And I was the shortest kid in my high school. And, um, but I could remember names. I can remember names. I could say names right now. I'm not going to say them because it's so specific. It's very specific. You know, it's like if I said Raleigh Johnson. It's names, but. I mean, he didn't pick on me, though. But I also, like, it was also, like I said, it was a mob. It was everyone. And so there's that, but there's also just this kind of, like, cloud of energy in a way that I remember more than anything.

Because it was, you know, it was a smaller school. And so everybody kind of got on the same page. I remember my mom saying something. She was like, oh, he's always so proud of you. You always made friends with the new girl. And I was like, oh, that's because you don't know. that she was the only person who would talk to me because she didn't know yet and about two weeks after that she would no longer I remember that happened when I was I was a sophomore and

there was a new fresh couple freshmen that came in and I knew these guys were going to be popular they were like good looking guys and they were like you know athletes and I remember becoming sort of friends with them and hanging out with them I remember it was for like a couple of weeks until they caught on that I'm not popular. I'm not what you thought. And it was like crazy how much that matters when you're that age. Did you get, did things change when you went to high school? So yes, I ended up, my coping mechanism at first was just to shut up.

I just stopped talking. I stopped. I just was the invisible person that they would have preferred me to be. I mean, I spoke in class and I spoke at home, but I just didn't try to be social with anyone any longer. And then honestly, I started doing the plays, and that was the only place that I talked. How did you get the car?

I guess since you loved dancing in the hallways and all that, this seemed like it. I had always loved theater and things like that. So I was like, all right, let's give this a shot. I had always danced and did some singing and things like that. So I did that. I did a couple of plays. And something in there around eighth grade, I did Guys and Dolls Jr., And I remember like walking into the cafeteria and seeing the like place that I normally went and sat alone and then seeing the place where all the kids that I had done the show with were sitting.

And I remember like very distinctly taking that deep breath and deciding to go sit with them. And that kind of shifted things. And I still, it took me years and years and probably I'm still not done figuring out how to just like let myself be me. Because that still feels like such a dangerous thing to do, since that's what got me, you know, humiliated so often. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole.

Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the wicked and reveal the grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Inside of You is brought to you by Patreon, my level of patrons. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you. It truly helps the podcast, top tiers, get things like packages sent to them every few months, notes from me, YouTube lives, questions with me, and the list goes on. please support the podcast we couldn't do this without you patreon.com slash inside of you i know how you feel i really know what it's like to i i've talked about it about becoming an

actor because of that like i i didn't have i've said it how many times have i said so i didn't have to be me yeah and then i got lost somewhere along the way between who i really was and who i thought i was yeah and then all of a sudden you get older and you realize i don't know exactly who i am right i should know who I am by now, and it's just because you're so used to. Or I'm a little ashamed of who I am. And it does, it has felt like so much of that journey has been trying to get back to being that pre-12-year-old kid who I look back and I'm like, wow, she was so free and she was so excited about everything. And gosh, I just let those stupid 13-year-olds like define me for the rest of my life. And there are decisions I make today that I'm like, God, damn it. I'm

still making choices based on these kids. It's so nuts to me. So you mentioned the D&D thing, which I came too late in life, but I did. I made this show Relics and Rarities that, again, I'm ridiculously proud of. And that's on now. It's just, it's not airing now. It's on YouTube. You can find it.

I'm doing a weekly show right now. You can watch called Children of Avertay. But this was a thing that we did a while ago that actually had a budget. It looks fantastic. We have great guests on it. Again, I'm so proud of it. it. And after that, it is, it is probably 12-year-old Deb to a T. All of the things that I loved, the enthusiasm, the, you know, childlike innocence to it all kind of exists within that show. And so

it was a really scary thing to kind of put that out there. But it was, as we said, when you talk about recognition, validation, it was accepted. Not just, you know, in a small way, people really went, wow, this was wonderful and it meant so much to me. And hearing that, that kind, I didn't know I needed that kind of validation, that 12-year-old Deb needed that kind of validation. Wow. So that was, that was more meaningful than I thought it was going to be. That's crazy. I thought we were just going to make a D&D show. And then afterwards, I was like, wow, I needed to hear that people like 12-year-old Deb. Wow. That's, you know, it's so, it's so, I mean, growing up is so hard to a lot of people out there.

It's just like finding your place. Who am I? Where do I belong? Who are my people? What do I want to do? What's my purpose? These are things that continue on in life, folks. They continue on.

I'm 50. And I still have questions. A lot of questions. I don't know when I'm going to have them all answered, probably not until I die. And even then I probably won't. But you'll find your people. Yeah.

You know, you'll find folks that make you feel like you can be you. Yeah. Like I've been rewatching modern family. I shouldn't say rewatching. I'm first time watching modern family. It's just been a fun thing to go through.

And he said the Jesse Tyler Ferguson says a line to the young kid who's struggling. And he says, you know, I know it's hard to be different now. But you'll see when you're older, the thing that makes you different is the thing that will make you special and make you, you know, exceptional. And it's just hard at that time in life when we're. becoming self-aware. I mean, quite literally, I think all of us could have a story right around 12-13 of something that was foundational to who we are. And I think it's because we start to realize that people see us and think about us and we become self-conscious. And isn't it amazing how there's always, if you think about your past, and Ryan, you probably have some thoughts to

this. But throughout your lifetime, it takes what we all need is someone to believe in us. Hopefully it's more than one. Right. Then you're, that's good. But there's always, even now, like, there's a casting director who believed in you, one person who kept calling me in because they saw something. There's that teacher who didn't think you were a dummy, who took the time because you had ADD and taught you something. There's, you know, maybe it's your mother or your father or whoever it is, but we all need somebody besides ourselves to believe in us, to give us that confidence. And, you know, I could, I can name, there's a handful of people in my whole life.

Yeah. That just, I remember going, he took the time with me. Yeah. I was this rambunctious little kid. I couldn't focus. My grades weren't good. I was colorblind. Yeah.

I didn't even know it until I was 14. Yeah. And somebody said, hey, come, come, let's sit down. Let's work this out. Well, I always think of that list and I go, that should be your Oscar list, right? Like, everybody talks about the speech that they practice and they're going to thank their agents and the director and the other actors. I'm like, sure. But the people who actually really got you there are those, right? They're the people who took the time and took the patients, not just the

people who were doing their job next to you. Yeah. And maybe, just maybe, I'm probably not the first person to say this. But maybe it's all the people who didn't believe in you that gave you the courage and the strength to actually prove them wrong. So maybe thank you. Oh, you fucks out there who didn't think anything of me or you. Yes. I think people. to varying degrees are are motivated by that. I'm not terribly motivated by that. I won't discount it entirely, but I don't have a lot of like, I'll show you in me. Really? Not really. You don't go to work going, I'm going to outact this fucking scene. I mean, not for the 13 year olds. I felt, I mean, I, in a playful way, sometimes I feel that way. And it might be to like psych myself. Like,

I had to see with had to, I got to do a scene with Vincent Donofrio. Oh, I did too. It got cut from a film. It was a great scene. It's a great scene. I'm sure. Because he's amazing. He's so amazing. Yeah. How was it? It was wonderful. It's again, one of those moments where I'm like, I am so proud of this. I do not ever want to ruin the way I feel about this moment. But, you know, but going in that it could be very intimidating. Again, knowing myself, I was like I could very easily become self-conscious and do a terrible job because I can't let go of that. So I walked in that day going, I'm, I'm going to blow Vincent Navri out of fucking water. That's going to be. my job today is to just like act circles around him. And, you know, that's, that's an overstatement that got me to parallel hopefully, you know. That is awesome. That's a great. If you could really believe that and feel it, there's such a good energy that you can just enjoy because a lot of the times we're all self-conscious. We're nervous. You know, we want to know our lines so good that we don't, Nothing can phase us.

We don't want to be tired. We want to have a, you know, there's all these variables that could, I didn't sleep right can affect your performance. I didn't, I drank last night. I, I, I, you know, I just, I have indigestion. My stomach's bother. There's, and you have to perform. Yeah.

No one gives a shit. No pun intended. You have to do it. Yeah. And you have to be on. And this is going to be recorded and, and be there for life. When you see this, when someone, they could play this moment. And that's how you have.

a lot of pressure. Do you get nervous still acting? Do you go on set and you're like, oh my God, I'm nervous? I'm nervous every take. Yes. I mean, I get comfortable. Yes. I mean, yes, some nerves.

I do think I rebrand them a little bit as butterflies, like that it's nervous excitement. I, because I have that ego that wants me to be great and wants to be considered great, even if it's just by the people in this room. rather than the world at large. But again, I know that that actually is going to do the opposite. Letting that voice in too much is actually going to make me less good. So, yeah, so sometimes I think it is a, it's putting on that false bravado, that swagger a little bit to sort of trick yourself into feeling that way, which is, you know, what actors do anyway? What do you do?

Sometimes give a little punch to your hand, come on, you got this shit. What do you do? What would be my thing? You know, Jesse Eisenberg, I remember I was doing, I was doing a movie. It wasn't a very good movie, and I love West Craven. I just did, I did the movie just because of West Cray. It was called Cursed, and I just did this part, and he wrote me a letter, and I was like, I mean, I didn't read the script.

I just want to work with you. And I watched Jesse Eisenberg, and before every take, he would just jump up and down, every take and turn around in circles, but right before a take. Yeah. And I have my own thing. Yeah. And everybody has their own thing. I know that Leonardo DiCaprio, at least he used to, he used to, he used to, he used to,

be just running around set acting like an idiot just talking to everybody in action and he just jump into it and i like doing that i if i think about this case unless i have a ton of lines right right right right but if i i i don't want to focus too much because i think i'll stress out too much and i'll be uncomfortable for too long so i try to get out of my head as much so right so that's it right it's to get out of your head it's to be present in this actual literal moment not some fake moment in your mind where you did you did it a certain way right that's the goal so honestly for me Me, it's like, okay. Sorry.

Then that's the show, folks. You want some more water or is it you good? That's fine. I don't care. So it's a little bit of, there are bottles in a wine rack over there. Yeah. There's light on the wall over there. I can hear the air conditioning humming up above.

Oh, there, he's sitting over there. Oh, wow. He's a really nice smile. I like the way his hair kind of flips that way. You know, and it's putting myself in this literal moment with the literal things around me. I'm not a big fourth wall person. I think for me, rather than doing a lot of work to make cameras disappear, I just accept them. They're just here.

It's just there. It's just another eye in the room, right? I'm just more concerned with you and what I need to communicate to you. And, oh, what did your face just do there? You know, like, so for me, it's, I'm a big homework person. I am always going to be an overachiever and an overworker. I do a lot. I get better the more work that I do, the more fire I have underneath. But once you're there on the day, it is about trusting that that's there and just going, wow, he looks cute today.

Or, oh, I'm so fucking mad at him. Look at the way his nose upturns. That might want to punch that nose in the fucking face. You know, like, it's a punch that. You know, it's finding the little things right here in this moment right now that put you kind of where you need to be for the scene. At least that's it works for me. No, that's amazing. Have you ever been intimidated by an actor? I mean, he said Dinafrio, but you didn't seem intimidated by hand. No, but yeah, I talk myself out of it. He's so scary in that role, though. He's great. I don't know how you did it.

So scary. Well, he's supposed to be scary, but also Karen is supposed to be reckless, right? I mean, in that role, I'm meant to kind of like, I don't get in trouble because trouble is drawn to me. It's because I go looking for it because I'm like, I'm going to ask the right fucking questions. And that's dangerous. So, you know, so again, the character can give you some swagger, you know, knowing that that's the attitude that comes with it. You know, he's also not that scary. Like right before that scene, he asked me if I liked his suit, you know, like he was insecure. He was, you know, like, oh, look, it's the white, you know. So, you know, you have to remember these other things are happening, you know, as it's going on. Have I ever been intimidated? I get more intimidated by, again, the social period outside of the acting. Will they like me? me as a person and also think that I'm good. Once action is called, I don't know, I have a pretty

good, I have a pretty good Pavlov instinct from action to cut of feeling a lot freer. I've always said this. I've always been kind of jealous of people who have strong religion in their lives. I have never really had that because there is this idea that like you're on a path and someone is looking out for you. And what's meant to be is meant to be. And there's like this safety net, whether it's predestination or anything like that, that you can't really make a wrong choice because it's already been made. Whereas I'm out here going, if I make the wrong choice, I may never have the career I want. I may not meet the people. I may not have the family. I might not have the security, you know, these things. So I'm constantly terrified in my real life

of taking a wrong step. I'm not much of a risk taker in my real life. But storytelling, it doesn't matter in scene three. If I cry, if I yell at you, if I spill water on the floor, you know, you might be really mad at me about the water on the floor right now. But if I do it in the scene, it doesn't change the fact that we have that, that it doesn't change scene 40. Scene 40 still happens. So there's so much more freedom to be brave and to make choices that are scary because I can't change the outcome. So for me, that feels like a safety net. And so, yeah, action to cut feels like the safest place in the world. Do you learn lines pretty quickly?

Yeah, I have a pretty good instinct for that. And I like these said that, you know, I, people always talk about like, oh, how do you memorize all those lines? I just did Shakespeare and it's a lot of lines and people are always impressed that you can memorize Shakespeare. But I always say, you know, it's not really memorization. It's learning by heart, right? I mean, you learn lines the way, or at least I feel like you should learn lines the way you know the words to your favorite song. They're just sort of in you. And the great thing about acting is generally someone gives you a cue.

They have a line before yours, which sort of tells you what your line is supposed to be. Yeah. Have you ever had lines given to you the day of a ton of lines? Not much. No, I haven't had to deal with that. Would you freak out? I would freak out. That would be a little hard for me.

There's also those sets, certain writers that want you to be absolutely word perfect. Brutal. Again, that's not the right environment for me. They would not like me as an actor. I have to believe in my heart that. writers and actors want the same thing, which is an authentic living, breathed experience in a moment. And if that means that I have to go, uh, at some point during your line. People say uh all the time, uh, then that, then I think that that's an acceptable, you know, sort of compromise

there. And most of the writers that I've worked with haven't had any problem with that. And, and even with small, I'm not a big like, hey, can we change this line unless it's something really important. I've done that, you know, I can count the times I've done that my career. But just little ad libs. But little ad libs are, you know, if, if, ugh, what, or ugh, goes to, ugh, I don't know, they're usually fine with little. Yeah, I would hope so. Oh, yeah, don't say, ugh. When you, fuck yourself. Um, how intense is John Bernthal? Uh-huh. He's a kitty cat. He's a kiddy cat. He's a kiddie cat. I met him once and he was really sweet, but he's got this intensity in all his role that I'm just like I remember he told me a story he was working with

Sylvester Stallone yeah and Sylvester said he was boxing and Sylvester Stallone came and like took his something it was his rosin or rosin I don't know what it was but it's something you don't do and he goes hey what are you doing the Stallone is like what and he says you know better than anybody that you don't take that from another boxer's like you know you're absolutely right I'm sorry about that put it back down and they got a little intense but like he told me some great stories but he's uh about meeting robert de Niro yeah and he wanted to ever tell you that story no he didn't tell me he wanted to meet Robert De Niro after they were together and at the end he goes look I waited the whole time I just want to say well De Niro goes

why don't you come in the trail I have to have a drink whatever I don't do De Niro and he comes in the trail or and Bernthal kind of says I love the story he says you know De Niro's thinking they're just going to have a drink and two guys hanging out. And Bernthal's like, I just got to say this. You're my idol, man. I mean, I, you're, he's like, yeah, you don't have to do this. And you could tell, De Niro's really uncomfortable. He's like, no, no, I want to say this. I guess, it's on this. You know, I'm going to do this. He's like, no, I have to say this. He's like, okay. And he just went on about how much he loved him and how it meant to him, working with him and how he's acting. And I go, so then he loved it.

Right. He goes, no. It was the most uncomfortable. awkward fucking thing that ever happened in my life. Yeah. But is he intense? Yeah. I mean, certainly he can be, you know, but generally, especially with me, I would say I can only speak from our relationship. He was supportive.

He was lifted me up. He always talked about how excited he was to work with me, how much he wanted me to cross over and do the work with him on Punisher. We would still love to work together on other things in the future. You know, so I have a lot of love and respect for John. So he's great. He's great actor. Great actor.

Great. And, you know, and I always said John's failing is actually how great of an actor he is, or not his failing, but his, you know, his Achilles heel maybe is that. Because, you know, we'll read a script and, you know, most actors, we go, oh, yeah, this is good. You get really excited about the thing. And sometimes that blinds you a little bit to some of the logic of the scene because you can just like, suspension of disbelief just skate right by. it. Not John. John will read something and he'll be like, okay, he's good. So, but why would I give her the gun? You know, and you're like, oh, why would he? And suddenly you're like, oh, yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Why are we doing? And then suddenly you've got an hour on set where

you're trying to figure out what you're going to do instead kind of thing, kind of because John is too good at what he does. Wow. Yeah. If you had to choose between true blood, daredevil or the Punisher to do again. Oh, to do again? I'm going to guess. Yeah, good. Right. you're going to guess too. I'm going to say it was true blood. You're wrong. I was going to say that too. Huh? I was going to say that too, yeah. I would I would say no.

Partially because the Marvel series feel unfinished to me because we got cancelled when we thought we were going to have more. So there is a part of me that was like I had more to say about Karen and we I felt like I was in the middle

of that story. Whereas true blood, you know, again, for all of its ups and downs and triumphs and flaws, we did get to wrap it up. I knew that we were wrapping it up. I could say goodbye to everyone. I stole something from the set. You know, I didn't get to steal anything from our Daredevil set. And I didn't get to say goodbye to the crew because we all thought we were coming back. So that's really what I would want back. And I wouldn't have all of that back, obviously. And the Punisher and Daredevil feel kind of of one to me, mostly because the character really lives and thrives and daredevil. But I loved the work I got to do in Punisher.

And also, you know, I played a 17 year old on True Blood. And, you know, that show was like a soap opera and you've grown up. A little bit. Yeah. And I, I really enjoyed as Karen playing someone my own age. Yeah. Because at a certain point, I was like, even, you know, even if three years have passed over the seven years of True Blood, I am now a, you know, a 28, 27 year old woman playing a 20-year-old and having to keep alive a little bit of that, like, innocence and insecurity, everyone else is older and stronger and wiser and, you know, that stuff. And so to go be Karen and be kind of like, I've lived and I've seen some shit and own that a little more.

I think I as Debra needed to play someone more like that after having been a kid for so long. If you had to choose between never doing theater again or never doing film again. Oh, I'd never do film again. And you just act on stage. That's how much you love it. It's so much fun. It's so much fun. It does not pay very well, but it is so much fun.

Yeah. It's an easy answer for me. And that's not to say I haven't loved the film and TV work. I have. It just doesn't thrill me. What about if you had to choose knowing you're not going to make any money in theater? You're going to make enough to just live. Oh, that's okay.

If I could live, that's okay. Okay. Um, you know, I mean, even right now, I mean, look, I, I, I haven't had like a good paying, steady film or TV acting job in a while, right? What do you mean? So I'm in the world of, a few years. That's enough. And I was on, and I, you know, I was on cable, which is, you know, a good payday, but it's not network payday. You know, you can't live the rest of your life off of a cable, a good run on a cable show. Um, you know, you have a family. You have a mortgage. You have, you know, and I'm smart with my money, but still, like, You have to retire at some point. These are all things. You might have to send a kid to college. At a certain point, those are very, very real obligations. And so, you know, I'm in the stage right now where I have, you know, like four side jobs.

Really? Part-time jobs that kind of keep things going. I mean, part-time jobs. I mean, they feel like full-time jobs because it's a lot of work. What are they? So I have a podcast. I want to be a guest. Well, if were you on True Blood.

I was never on True Blood. So unfortunately, I don't know that we can have you in. If you were a super fan, maybe we could bring you in as a super fan. But yeah, we're doing a podcast called Truest Blood. Kristen Bauer, who is Pam on the series. I got to get her on the podcast. I like her. You should totally have her on.

Kristen's an incredible storyteller. She's hilarious. Guys, listen to this podcast. It sounds cool, especially if you like True Blood. Truest Blood. Trueest Blood. So we basically go through each of the episodes. And not only do we talk about our favorite moments, but we do serious behind the scenes.

So how did we get that special effect done? We do that too on our show TalkVille. Amazing. I do Smallville. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

So really behind the scenesy stuff, it's, you know, if you know me and I'm an overachiever, I, I deep dive research into all this stuff. So it's really fun. So we're working on our second season of that. That'll come out really soon. I'm writing a Dungeons and Dragons campaign book that will be published in 2024. Have you ever played with Vince Vaughn? I have not played with Vince Vaughn. He's a big D&D fan.

I've played with Joe Mangonello. Kyle Newman? I play with Kyle for sure. Yeah. I definitely love Kyle. I've never played it. I played it when I was a kid twice or three times, but it takes a while to learn how to play, doesn't it?

It does. I'm a big believer, though, for new players that you shouldn't worry about the rules, especially with this fifth edition. The fifth edition is really intuitive. And if you have a good DM that can just tell you what to roll, you should play from your imagination. So I generally with new players,

don't tell them how to play. Well, invite me. I'd love to try it. You should totally come and play. Especially I have all this material I need to play test. Just don't make fun of me Don't get angry with me Be patient

Remember I talked about the teacher Was patient with me? Yes, patient is very good And yeah And then I have this weekly D&D game That I'm running once a week That's a completely different story And you make money for these?

I make money for these Get out! Yeah I love that A lot of good things You know I know I read about And you talk about it Because you support it

But your husband has a disease called Yeah, corrooremia We say yes hard to pronounce even harder to cures our little tag right right and um how's he doing he's doing good EJ is his name yeah so he's cordarema it's an eye disease um that essentially erodes sight from the outside in so he's lost his peripheral vision and any you know uh over time he'll lose all of it how when did the start it's lifelong it's genetic so it started from birth from birth he didn't he didn't always know about it he was growing up he did he didn't always know about it you know

I think that's also some of the trouble with it is that, you know, he was maybe labeled as clumsy or, you know, not observant or things like that when it was an actual condition. Oh, that's got to suck not knowing what the hell. I mean, oh. And, you know, and because it's genetic, there's family issues that come into that and are you passing this along and what is your legacy and all of those things. And, you know, I think so for E. He's done a lot of work over the years. He's run marathons, had comedy. benefits and things like that. He's very into the improv world that, you know, so we've tried to

raise awareness and money to sort of help find a cure or treatment. And where can they go to So curechm.org is a place where you can donate the foundation fighting blindness. We love them. They're fantastic. So those are places that you can go. Yeah. And how old is he? My husband is in mid-40s. And I mean, do they give a time expectancy of like, hey, by the term? It can change for a lot people. Some of it is protection. The more he protects his eyes from the sun, the longer his vision can maintain. But now, you know, he's got central vision as if you were looking through straws. Very tight central vision. So that's tough. Yeah. So is there certain glasses or something that can help with that? Not at this time, no. It's also, you know, RP is a very similar

condition. But from what I understand, and I'm not a scientist, with RP, it just shuts the photoreceptors down, so potentially there's a world in which they could turn them back on with certain treatments. Unfortunately, with coroteremia, those cells are destroyed. So there is no turning back the clock at this point other than stem cell therapy, which is we're very behind in that technology. Of course. So, you know, we're looking more at a treatment that could potentially halt the degeneration at this point. Is that a struggle every day? Is it sort of like, for him, really just having to you know being frustrated probably and all this shit so it's like you know that's something you have to deal with yeah you know yeah it's a big deal and and i think for him too you know

he like you loves things that represent you know movies and comic memories and memories and you know he's a big collector and savor of things and he loves you know he takes a lot of pictures and video whereas i can't be bothered to do any of that so you know he has a fortress of solitude that he has a fortress of solitude that keeps, you know, it's filled to the brim with statues and books and comic books and posters and things like that. And, you know, I walk in there and I have anxiety, but for him, it's this soothing, wonderful space of love and joy. And, you know, so much of that enjoyment comes from the visual and being able to see these things and watch these television shows that he loves. But, you know, accessibility is a huge thing. You know, we are huge fans and love it when the different

network start having audio descriptive tracks with their TV shows. That's very helpful. Going to ball games and there's certain, you know, making it easier. Going to the movie theater, sometimes they have headsets that'll do the audio description. But even then, like, a lot of times they're not working. So it's this big fight to say like, hey, you would be making the day of so many people if you just had your headsets ready to go and in functioning order. Right. Like that's a struggle when just trying to go see a movie, you know? Um, yeah. And I, you know, I think, there's a lot of fear and loss surrounding it, but he's a pretty exceptional person and that he's really directed that energy into, you know, trying to fight the good fight.

That's awesome. Yeah. Well, donate again to. Yeah, donate, FFB, the Foundation Fighting Blindness, or CIRCHM.org. All right, shit talking with Deborah Ann Wall. By the way, if someone has to sing a song to you with your last name in it, what song is it? I mean, you had to have been saying a song like, like for me, Rosenbaum, people would say, you dropped a Rosenbaum on me, baby.

With a wall? No, nothing good. How about all we are is just a, another brick in the wall? I have never heard that before. Really? No, as I said, I have only heard my name spoken in taunts. So, yeah, so yeah, I don't. So I'm the first.

You're the first. Yay. Brick in the wall. I will take this moment home with me. Shit talking with Deborah Ann Wohl. These are patrons, top tier patrons that ask questions, but at patreon.com slash inside of you to become a patron and support the podcasts. We need people like you. Thank you.

And these are the shit talking questions. Jamal F. How involved did you feel Netflix was in shaping Daredevil? Are you satisfied with how the show ended? Ooh. Well, I mean, we brushed upon this a little bit. I mean, I think Netflix was a really great home for that show in that they did trust most of them. I wasn't in any of those rooms, so I don't know how intense they, you know, Netflix was as a

network, but I love the version of the shows that we did on Netflix. And yes, I was sad that it ended without more notice. All right. Sheila G., favorite experience working with Charlie Cox on Daredevil. Oh, Charlie. Favorite experience? Gosh. You know, I always looked forward to the days that I worked with Charlie, one, because he's a hard worker like me. You know, I don't think he's quite so far as like, hey, you forgot to give us homework, but he enjoys the work. He likes the challenge. He likes the challenge. He wants to rehearse. He wants to talk about the scene. So I remember in the beginning of season three, you know, every, every scene with him was a joy. But in the beginning of season three, we were going to do a flashback to the scene

that just followed his reveal that I am daredevil to Karen Pate. And he and I had already had a lot of conversations about what had happened between then and the next time that they met. So when Eric Olson and our showrunner on season three came in and said that he wanted to revisit that moment, he worked very closely with us and wanted to know what had we imagined. You know, he wrote a pass and sent it to Charlie and I, and Charlie and I read through it and discussed it and sent some back, some thoughts, and they re-wress. It was this really lovely collaborative back and forth. And when we finally got there that day to shoot it, I don't know.

It just, it was another one of those moments with him where I was like, I'm so grateful this is you and not some asshole who's, you know, too big for his britches, you know, you. That's good. He wanted to do it. Yeah. Okay. By the way, I'm glad I didn't say this before because that was an amazing answer, but this is rapid fire. Oh, I'm sorry.

But I didn't say rapid fire, but I'm glad I didn't say rapid fire, but I'm glad I didn't say rapid fire because you might not have told that story. I'm terrible at rapid fire. All right, here we go. Well, you don't have to be that fast. Okay. You could just, look. Like 10 seconds or less? No, whatever you want.

If you want a minute, go. But, you know, it's just quick. If you can. Gotcha. Gotcha. No, Jeanette, any thoughts about revisiting True Blood in a movie? Any updates on Season two of your podcast? Well, we just talked about that.

Season two is back. I know nothing about any movie. I love the character. I mean, if it was well written, sure. And I kind of like, I'll say this. True Blood did not end the way that I thought it was going to end or really even wanted. it to end, I was kind of like, she should go, like, explore the world and, like, become queen of Louisiana or something like that. So I would love more story for Jessica out of that.

Christy, I loved this show True Blood. What would the crew like to work with on True Blood? Exceptional. So I'll say this. We worked nights. It was freezing cold in Greer Rance where we shot this show. I mean, we're talking below 30, like below 20 some nights. And we're out there in little dresses, you know, for Louisiana nights kind of thing. It was cold. It was long. We shot routinely 16, 18 hour days. Our crew did not have to come and be there for all seven seasons. And we had a crazy retention rate. And that's because of how professional they were, how good they were. Also HBO compensating for that kind of commitment. Well, they're exceptional. I mean, doing the podcast now and getting to talk with a lot of them again and remember what a special

experience that was. That's amazing. Dana S. Will we see you in any of this upcoming phase of Marvel movies and Disney series? I can say this. They have not called me yet. So as of now, I am not a part of it. I would be thrilled to get to be a part of it. They know where I am. Like I said, I love the character of Karen Page. I love telling that story. I feel like I have more to say. but it is up to them what kind of story that they want to tell. Charlie Cox was in Spider-Man. I mean, it's there.

Well, they've already announced they're doing a Daredevil series. That's happening. They just have not contacted me about it. Maybe they will. Maybe they will. That's why I'm saying yet. So I have not contacted me about it.

Raj, and we sort of dabbled on this. We actually talked about this. Did you have any family or friends that weren't supportive of your decision? No, we didn't talk about this. No. Weren't support of your decision to pursue an acting career. some extended family you know true blood is not for everyone and it is racy and there were a couple of people who I think like the line I can remember is oh well we're so happy for you but you know I'll someday you'll do work we can be proud of basically is what was said to me but you know that's that's people have lots of feelings about what television

and should be and all of that. And so I'm very proud of True Blood. I think that it tackled, you know, for all of the soap opera and the blood and the gore and the genre of it, I think it really tackled some really interesting ideas and ask people to challenge their thoughts. So I'm proud of it. I love it. Well, you're doing so much. I mean, you really are doing a lot. Do you have to keep busy to sort of function or do you, can you take a break? Oh, I can take a break. You can do nothing. I can do nothing. I can watch Modern Family for hours if I need to. I can't because I have things to do because I do have to care for my family and do those things. Awesome. Well, this has been a real damn treat. Thank you. Thank you so much for

allow me to be inside of you today. That's what we say in the show. It's not perverted. And this has been awesome. So thank you. Thanks. She was a sweet, a sweet lady, sweet woman, very talented. I just I always like when we do in persons it's just I feel like you feel an energy like a back and forth yeah I mean the zooms are fine but I always like having someone in the room yeah and she had a nice energy about it opened up a ton she opened up a ton and she was very calming you know I like when people calm me and I feel like I could just talk to them so that was really nice uh if you didn't listen to the intro it's got all the information for the cons that I'm doing and the handles and the uh our website uh inside of you online store patron all that stuff you might want

to listen to it to join to help support the podcast and a bunch of other fun stuff and the new album sunspin.com go there to get merch and the new cd and right now i'm going to do shoutouts here we go these are shoutouts these are top tier patrons who have given to the show and a lot of these names man freaking they've been here i just did boxes yesterday with my friend joey put boxes together. I always make those little notes. But it's just amazing. It's amazing how some people have been here over three years. Loyal. Loyal. Just supporting the podcast. After a while, I don't know what to say anymore.

I'm just like, oh my gosh, you're still here. Sometimes I say that. I'm like, you're still here. You're still supporting this podcast. I guess it means something to you. And it means a lot to me. Here we go. Nancy D. Alia S. Sarah V. Little Lisa, Y. Kiko, J. E. Brian H. Nico P. Robert B. Jason W. M., Sophie M. Raj C. Joshua D. Jennifer N. Stacey L. Jamal F. Janelle B. Kimberly E. Mike E. Eldon Suprimo, 99 more. I'm going to change my glasses. I can actually see some of these names. I do this every time. I bet you guys. That should be a contest. What name will I get to before I switch my glasses? I was far. Yeah, and it started to blur. San Diego M. Chad, W. L. Lian P.

Janine R. Maya P. Maddie Espland and Chris H. H. H. H. H. Tave of the T. Tom N. Lillian, Big Stevie, W. Angel M. Rian N C. Corey K. Dev Nexon, Michelle A. Jeremy C. G. G., G., C., C., John B. Brandy D., Camille S., Joey M., Eugene, and Leah. Nikki G., Corey, Patricia, Heather L. Jake B. Megan T. Mel S. Orlando C. Caroline R. Christine S. Sarah S. Eric H. Shane R. M. R. M. Zotuichi, 77. Oracle. Karina N. Amanda R. Amanda S. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Lina 82, Jorrell, and Billy S. I've said it a million times.

I could not do it without you. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Thanks for being here and supporting. Hopefully you'll have a great holidays. It's coming up. Thanksgiving. We've got Christmas. We've got great guests coming up so you don't want to miss it.

Nice over the holidays. Just sit, shit. You could shit. Sit in a nice room. Maybe shit in a nice room. And listen to the podcast. Listen to all these fabulous guests that are coming up. And, of course, a reminder to listen to Talkville.

which is every Wednesday. That's tomorrow. Tom and I dissect every episode of Smallville. And thanks for all your support there. And we love you. From myself, Michael Rosen, I'm in the Hollywood Hills. I'm Ryan Tejas. I'm Ryan Teas. That's Bryce. I'm Bryce in the Hollywood Hills. Yes. Hey, we'll see you later. Thanks so much for being here. And most importantly, be good to yourselves. I will see you next week. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice.

Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. stacking Benjamins follow and listen on your favorite platform