Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - VINCENT D’ONOFRIO: The Pain Of Being Bullied, Playing Kingpin & Why Failure Sets You Free

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Vincent D’Onofrio joins us for a deeply honest conversation about discipline, insecurity, and what it actually takes to last decades in this business. From wearing a full body Kingpin suit to embracing failure on set, Vincent explains why ego is useless, why struggle is the art, and why he has no intention of retiring at 66. He also opens up about being bullied as a kid in Florida and how those early wounds still fuel his performances today. Thank you to our sponsors: x __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou⁠⁠ 👕 Inside Of You Merch: ⁠⁠https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: ⁠⁠https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🤣 TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast⁠⁠ 📘 Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🐦 Twitter: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod⁠⁠ 🌐 Website: ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That was very good. Yes, that's good. This episode is brought to you by booking.com. Booking.com offers an array of hotel and vacation rentals across the U.S. So you can find exactly what you're booking for. Get it? There's something for everyone, even those who are impossible to please, because we all travel differently, am I right? Like, what works for like a chill group of friends for a weekend does not work for my people?

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Brian, good to see you. Hello, good to see you too. We just got done doing a podcast. We did. Yeah, we recorded a podcast, a very special guest. Nancy Cartwright, voice of Bart Simpson and other stuff. It was a treat. It was fun.

It was a lot of fun. It was. Our guest today is a lot of fun, too. it's a second time on the show and he always brings it he's uh he's amazing vincent dinofrio if you're here just for vincent uh look if you like the interview i always say ryan then subscribe give us a shot because i think you'll like a lot of the other interviews as well and uh we work hard to bring you good guests and you know it's it's not just like actory stuff you know i try to get behind the curtain as i say try to humanize the celebrity

and let you know that they're real people too. And I hope you enjoy it. You could follow us at Inside of You Podcast on Instagram and Facebook at Inside of You Pod on the Twitter. And if you want to follow me at the Michael Rosenbaum on Instagram, you can go to my link tree. I'm on cameo. I do really great cameos, Ryan. I give good cameo. You give good cameo?

I do. And you've made it more affordable for? for people off there. Yeah, so lower the prices just for maybe the month or whatever, April. Yeah. You know, see how it goes.

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Right there. Rosie's puppy fresh breath. Yeah. A lot of cons coming up. We have a Nashville con. Ryan's coming on the cruise. Go to cruiseville.com. Tons of stuff there and the inside of you online store.

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my other podcast that Ryan produces with Tom Welling, Clark Kent. So it's Lex, Clark, and Guy. And some guy. And some guy. More importantly, I hope everyone's taking care of themselves being good to yourself. And, you know, what are you doing new today?

What are you going to incorporate in your routine? I'm trying to do that, trying to take walks, trying to, you know, I have a surgery that this will air. My surgery is Wednesday. This air is Tuesday. Or no, maybe not. But I'll probably be, have already, I'll have gone under the knife. when this airs. So you're not seeing me with a big patch on my neck.

But thanks for all the people are wishing me the best, and I appreciate that. It's a big surgery. So I hope it all goes well. Knock on wood. Ryan, knock on wood behind you. Can you knock on it, please? Beautiful.

All right, without further ado, let's get inside of Vincent Dinoffrio. Where you get nervous for a role. Oh my God. I get panicked. Do you get anxiety? Yeah, I live with anxiety. What do you do?

I was just taking a live picture. I always get nervous, but that's fun. I look forward to it. Let's get everything out of today we can. And how much time do you have left? And how are you going to use it well? So come on now. We would have to do another inside of you.

But actually, but that's kind of what you're doing, Michael. I mean, you're on this road, this journey of what's inside of you. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Yeah, we were talking about, we're having a laugh because I said, I can't believe you, I mean, you look this good. What are you doing? What are you doing to yourself that you look this good? Just training, you know, like it's, you know, I'm 66 years old now.

So it's like. No freaking way. Come on, dude. I don't expect to retire anytime soon. So I have to, you know, stay in shape. Why? Well, I have kids. I want to live.

I'm, I'm, you know, have an incredible marriage. and I have incredible kids and I want to stay around for everybody. That's good. I mean, are you doing something completely different in the last couple years than you had done in the past? Well, one thing is that I don't have to have the weight on for the Marvel role anymore, which is a big deal just for health reasons and stuff. Taking it on, putting it back on and blah, blah, blah.

It's just can't do any. I can't do that kind of stuff anymore. So it's, yeah, it's easier to stay fit now that I can wear this big fat suit, muscle suit thingy. How big was that? How much did it weigh? Well, I think, you know, I wear it like every day. So it's on the set. So it's, it's heavy, but it's more than heavy.

It's hot and tight. It goes from my ankles to my wrist. So it's a full body thing. I remember shaving my head and just being so like an hour and a half, two hours, they had to shave and put all this makeup so it didn't look like a hairline. And I remember like you go in, you're like, okay. And you just sort of like, I don't want to say innately miserable, but there's sort of a misery there and underlying kind of like. Yeah, there's a misery in, yeah, in every part I take. It's true.

It's this thing where it's sort of like Stockholm syndrome where you read it and then, and I immediately hate it. And then I read it more and I read it more and I read it more and I fall in love with it. You know, it's crazy. It's my captor, you know. And so like it's the same thing with approaching parts. You know, it's just miserable. and then it suddenly it's all it's the only thing you want to do yeah do you think you like it

i mean you like a lot of actors i always i always hear that when they first get offered something or they you know they're going to sign on to do a part they are immediately nervous i can't do it i can't you know and then slowly you figure it out do you still get nerves like that i still i guess i mean i don't get like nerves like i don't think i can do it it, I get nerves about, you know, not procrastinating and getting to be, getting busy, you know, getting busy doing it. Like, yeah, I try to avoid it as much as I can. And then suddenly I realize, oh, okay, I'm like a couple months away. I better start getting busy thinking about it. And then by the time it's time to shoot, I don't have any fears anymore.

or anything like that, right? You know, but I think like every actor, I know this is very common, and like you just said, Michael, where I think the first couple of days of shooting is a little nerve-wracking because you're meeting all new people and there's new cast members

or you're just meeting the cast for the first time and you're meeting the director for you, you're meeting all these personalities and everybody, you know, is new, the atmosphere is new, The crew is new. So you're working in front of them for the first time. And as you know, it's like once you feel comfortable with your crew, you know, it's like,

the freedom kind of is like tenfold for me to be able to just do whatever I want, you know. And it's always nice to see like a new face on the crew that I know. You know, like it's these days because of how long, I'm sure you get this too. It's like we've been doing it for a while. And there's always two or three people that I've worked with before, you know, and that's comforting. Like I'll focus on them for the first couple of weeks so that I feel like, you know, it's family kind of a feeling. Yeah. More kind of peaceful feeling they know the kind of nonsense that I get up to and how far I go with stuff and stuff.

So it's like I don't, you know. But I don't, so I don't sweat it. But, you know, there is this thing. Like I was taught early on. where, you know, and I always have a laugh with the crews about it is, you know, they're taught not to put their hand in the cage when it comes to actors. So it's like, that's a funny thing, I think. That's amazing. Yeah, like I can, like I can prove that statement correct every, every time it work.

You know, because I do all these strange things, you know. Yeah. So they're, they're, they're used to that. to not putting their hand in the cage at first. And then they get to know me. And then they realize them just another acting schmo that's trying to make a living. They know the kind of approach that I have to acting and what I do and how into it I am and how much of a nerd I am about it and everything. So it's like it's a much more comfortable place to be when I know somebody.

And then eventually within a few days, it's like, you know, everything's normal again. Inside of You is brought to you by NordVPN. Don't fast forward because this is important. NordVPN is the leading VPN service trusted by millions of internet users worldwide. It offers a comprehensive solution for online security and privacy. I mean, these guys really work. NordVPN encrypts your online traffic, protecting your online activity from third parties and prying eyes. You can browse, work, and play safer on the internet.

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You need to get it. Yeah. It just, it feels like with you and some other actors, I mean, well, let's say a regular actor comes on set and they're like, oh, that's that guy. He'll do good enough. He's there for a purpose. He's not going to be up here all over the place. He's just going to give what he does. But with you, it's the unpredictability, right?

It's the, we expect greatness from Vincent. You know, that's got to be a little pressure that you're always on. You always come through. like he's going to he's going to do it he's going to do it the right way he's going to be you know that's got to be a pressure you don't feel that well i don't feel that no but there's a reason why i don't feel it is it's because i fail as much as i succeed when the camera's rolling like i fail all the time and so it's those failures in front of everybody that make me feel more comfortable eventually like they see me at my worst you know um because i you know i try so many

things and whatever. It doesn't matter. I fail like everybody else. You know, and it's like you fail, you succeed, you fail, you succeed. And they get to watch it all, you know, and that kind of frees you up. It frees me up a bit to know that I can make gigantic mistakes, you know, in front of people that, you know, I guess they consider me a decent actor and then they see the process and they remember that it's similar to them. You know, everybody fails. You know, the focus puller fails every once in a while, you know, the operator fails every once in a while. The B&P failed. Everybody fails every once in a while on the set, you know, so I think they, I think it's like that. Yeah. But no, I don't get nervous about it. Yeah. I mean, if you,

if you have the mentality that I can't fail, that you're afraid of failure that you don't want to fail, you embrace failure. You're like, hey, I'm going to try everything. I'm going to fail. and that's going to get me the confidence. It's like, I hear from so many friends that are stand-up comedians that they're like, I bomb. But I know that feeling now. I know how to bounce back. I know how to pick it up.

So I guess it is a universal sort of idea. It is absolutely. It is absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and all the artists, whether they're musicians or singers or painters or poets, everybody that I've met in my life that I consider a legitimate artist. I've seen them all fail, you know, miserably and, and then succeed in a way that I could have never imagined, you know. So it's, yeah, it's common.

Our dear friend Kristen Ritter says this about you. You want to hear it? Oh, God. Go ahead. Let's hear it. I text her. I was like, hey, I'm interviewing Vincent again and just if you want to say anything. And she's like, oh, my God.

She goes, I love Vincent. This is her text this morning. I just love to be a sponge around him. The way he talks about acting, whether it's at a convention or at a dinner or on set or even at the gym. He cares so much about work. He's invested and inspired, and I just have always loved and noticed that about him. Sometimes he's like the wise mentor, and sometimes he's a big kid with curiosity and play. He's just someone I love to be around and learn from, and I'm grateful we have had an opportunity to get to know each other and have fun together and collaborate over the years.

He's a good egg, and he's had my back a few times in ways I'll always remember. That's really sweet. That's really nice. I love that. And she's so awesome. She's just being super kind. Yeah. No, but she's honest.

Believe me, you know her. Yeah, I know you know her. Yeah. I know you know her. Yeah. And I'm getting to know her too. It's, uh, she's, you know, Kristen's the real deal. She's a quite a unique actress.

And, um, yeah, it's just really nice to hear that from a peer. So I appreciate it so much. I, I can only say in return. that I am shocked that she would even think that of me because she's so impressive herself. Oh, wow. Especially on set. Like she's, she comes in with ideas.

She's open to others' ideas. She has that character of Jessica Jones. I've only worked with her when she's playing Jessica Jones. So it's, yeah, she's quite something. So to hear that from her is very nice. I appreciate you reading that to me, too. Yeah. I felt like it was a beautiful message that I was like, you know, it didn't feel like,

oh, he's great. I wouldn't have mentioned it. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. You know, I just watched the Daredevil Born Again season two trailer. Yeah. And let me tell you, I know it's funny because I, you know, I've done a lot of superhero shit and, you know, it's never been my thing.

You know, I'm into documentaries and, and horror movies and all that stuff. And I'm like, I had to watch it three times because I thought it was so just all over the place in such a great way of just energy and emotion. And I want to watch this. Like I said to my girlfriend, I said, this looks fucking great. Watch. I mean, was that you in the boxing ring? What the hell is that? Can you even talk about that?

We can talk about it a little bit. yeah, I arrange a promotional boxing thing. But it's, of course, it's the, my agenda is not as simple as that. But that's what I can't talk about. But it is, yeah, he's the mayor and he decides that for a good reason in his mind, that he's going to do a boxing tournament with some guy who's supposed to be a good, you know, boxer in New York. And it's, you know, it's just an opportunity for my character, the piece of a shit.

Get out a little bit of his weirdness. Supposedly it's like the most violent Marvel show or anything that they've done in a long time. That's what they're saying, right? Have you seen it? And how do you feel about it? How would you describe it? I, you know, the freedom that they give us when it comes to the brutality because, you know, we set that up in the Netflix show was also the brutal thing.

It's amazing. I think, yeah, I would agree with them that it is that it is, if not the one of the most violent things that that company has done under Kevin's reign and Pluggies reign. And he loves the show. It's, yeah, that's a big deal. That art show is, it's so strange. like we're like 50% you know emo you know the whole show you know and then it's just it's just 50% brutality you know and and you know it's these guys are intense the charlie's character and my character are intense man I can't really talk about the show without talking about Charlie by the

He's just, you know, every season he plays that character. He's just topping himself each season. And it's amazing to watch. His acting has become so good. And he always was good, but he's taken his chops to another level, I think. And he, and this show, this show gives him a lot of opportunity to make emotional transitions that are not easy to do when you're playing a superhero. without looking silly. Right.

And he pulls it off, you know, and also the physicality. I mean, we all have incredible stuntmen working for us there and doing the stuff where we would get, where we could get hospitalized if something went wrong, so we can't do that stuff. But Charlie pushes it to the edge. I mean, he really, he does 10 times more than I do. And so it's like incredible.

I find him so impressive. He said that the show limits how much you guys share screen time to keep any confrontation meaningful and explosive when it does happen. I think it's kind of like my analogy would be maybe like not seeing the shark in jaws as much. And when you see it, that's the impact it has. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, every time we are together in the scene, it has to be like a major plot. point for the structure of the story. So it's like that's yeah, he's he's spot on. It has to be a

major thing. We can't do that constantly. Otherwise the show won't work. How often do you think when you're watching you're in a moment, in a scene? Has anyone ever been so good that it almost takes you out of character? Almost like you're if you're even if you're off camera, you're like, holy shit. Yeah. I mean, yeah. We have this. I'll tell you, I rarely get to see the cast on my side of the show work because they're always in scenes with me. But in the second season, there were a couple opportunities where I was in the first shot of the scene, but then left the scene. And I was able to watch. There's one scene in particular, a banquet kind of scene where there's probably 12 tables full of people, background actors.

and cast members on all the tiers of our different cast members, but the ones on my side of the show. And I walked through the scene at the beginnings, which the camera follows and sets up the geography of the room and where everybody is in the table just by coming off of me and on then and back on me as they come out. And once I exited for the first time, this would happen during the second season. I was able to just watch. my cast, you know. And I was so impressed by them. I mean, I watched it from the rehearsal all the way through the all shooting,

all over the coverage and everything. Wow. Just sitting off camera. And, you know, it's a very, these scenes in this kind of show, there's a lot of dialogue. There's a lot of transitions. The camera's moving from people, from one group of people to the next. Everybody has dialogue. Everybody has important plot point dialogue.

Everybody has to make the blocking interesting. You're talking like eight characters. And it's some television director's first day who's like breaking their ass trying to understand everybody. And our cast just pulling it all together for them. Like immediately just I'm watching them, keeping my mouth shut and just watching them do their thing. and it was an amazing thing to watch. They pulled it together in the rehearsal. They made it work brilliantly.

And then when they started shooting, it just got better and better. It was, I was, you know, there's a couple of actors that are incredibly good on a show. And just the whole cast in itself. You know, I'll speak from my side of the show because I don't get to work very often with Charlie's side of the show, the people on his side. So they're just amazing. They're amazing actors. And, you know, you're like, you watch that happen and you know, you know you're in good hands, you know, because you're surrounded by all these great people.

It's, I'm sure you know what that feels like, Michael. It's like a such a comforting feeling to know that you're in good company, you know. Yeah. And especially when you're talking about like, you know, when you fail a lot to get to where you want and they're there with you. They're there to pick you up. They're delivering the lines back. Take it back. Go. Boom. Like, you know, you know, you know, get, get helping you get there. Because some actors, they don't know how to do that or they don't have the experience. And they're just like, uh, I don't know what to do here.

Yeah. I mean, one in particular would be Aeel, Zerer who plays Vanessa, who I've known for so long now. We're like brother and sister. And she plays my, my wife in it. But more than that, she plays this incredibly strong, uh, woman in the show. And, you know, doing. scenes with her and watching her pull off stuff on her own is just phenomenal to watch. She's, there's so many of the lessons to learn from her as an actor.

And, and then, you know, you know, like Gandalfini, you know, Michael is his, you know, since I met him, you know, he's pulling off in the second season, he pulls up these incredible scenes. I'm just so proud of him. He's just, he's, you know, figured out a way to be in. in the moment, like, for lack of a better term, I guess, but to just pull off these very intense scenes with this particularly complicated character that he plays.

And he's just, you know, my opinion of what I do for a living and Mike and the company that I keep while doing it has never, it's never changed. It's so exciting for me. from the first time I remember doing full metal jacket till now I still get excited about incredible performances you know this episode is sponsored by better help I've been using better help for a long time so is Ryan and millions of people around it's so easy instead of going to a therapist which costs more money better help online therapy you can switch your

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Like I wear very little makeup, you know, all they have to do for for for daredevil is just shape, keep, you know, shave my head like you were saying earlier. You should make sure there's no stubble shot. Like to basically, that's it. I got to jump in a fat suit and make sure my stubble doesn't show on my head and I'm ready to go. Does the wife love the beard? Does she love the ball? What does she? She doesn't care about.

What does she prefer? I think she says that she likes it. Do you believe her? Sometimes. I have to, she knows that I have to go on camera, so she's not going to, like, diss me right before I go on camera. She may be being kind. Does she ever say, hey, you're great in this? Or does she give you compliments?

Does she, like, watch everything you do? Or is you guys so past that that you just do your thing and she does her thing? No, we're not past it. We're each other's fans. Like she's a my wife is a is a marketing whiz who works for tech companies international tech companies and I she's she's a boss and I make sure that she knows she's a boss every time she goes to work or she has a meeting or something like that she's she's the real deal and she's a boss and and she does the same thing for me. Well, you're both bosses. You're a mob boss. She's the tech boss. I What do you think, you know, I asked this probably for myself, but what do you think

makes a relationship healthy or strong or succeed, like, from experience? Well, I think it's different from men and women. So I'm not going to pretend like I know how a woman thinks when it comes to that because I have no idea. But for me as a husband, I think, you know, that the important thing is that they, they are, you remind them without having being asked to or you remind them that they are number one and that they are important in your life and and the reasons why they're important in your life too. I think to remind your loved ones of that helps people connect and stay connected. And I think it's important for, I've learned over the years because that's what you asked, right?

So I think I've learned over the years that you have to, you have to, it's as important as anything else that may be happening any given day. That one of the things on the top of the list is to remind your children. In this case, we're talking about a marriage and my wife, that why she's important to me. why I need her, what she does for the family, you know, that and how, and you know, basically just, you know, loving things like how lucky I am to be standing next to her talking to her right now, you know. I think those things keep you connected. And if you're talking about real things that happen on a daily basis and you're bringing them up to your children or to your love, your, your partner, I think if what you're, if what you're,

what you're saying is based on actual events and things that are happening that day or it happened in the last year or the last week. I think that real life things, hard things, easy things, wonderful things, you know, things full of joy, heartache, troubles, you know, you remind them of those things and how important they are to you on a daily basis. I think it keeps you connected in a really good way. I think that's just one way. of keeping a relationship connected and vibrant.

I think you might have saved my relationship. No, I mean, this is like you forget those things. You figure they know, they assume, you know, actions speak louder than words, but sometimes you need to hear it. Yeah, I mean, do you ever need to hear it? I think it's important to hear it. Yeah. So if you need to hear it, you can count on the fact that they need to hear it, too. Yeah. God, how feeble-minded I am. Yeah, join the club.

This is, you learned from experience, didn't you? Yes. The answer to that is yes. Do you, do you still have a lot of fun, even though you're constantly working and playing these roles that are intense? Do you still find ways to like get out of it and, you know, go have a laugh, have meet with friends? Do you, are you close with people? Do you have a lot of close friends that you hang out with? Are you just sort of like, I'm a family guy and I work? Well, you know, when you have three older kids, it doesn't get any easier. And so they require your attention and guidance sometimes. Marriage is important to keep on the top of your list as far as making it, keeping it good every day. And then, yeah, and then I have a couple of very close. friends that I miss every day and I try to see them every day. The problem is that the problem

that having actors as friends is that we're never around. So I miss them. But now, you know, I don't know if you know who Yule Vasquez is. He's a very good friend of mine. I love this guy. Great actor. And then, of course, Ethan Hawk is like my best friend. He always seems like he'd be a great guy. I never met him, but I always... No, you would like him. Yeah? Yeah, he's a kick. He's a, you know, he's a true poet, Ethan.

You know, I know he's an actor, obviously, but, you know, Ethan is a... He's an artist through and through. He has been since he was a kid. You know, it's taken people a long time to realize how deep this guy really is. Yeah. He really is, you know. But I would say in the last 20 years or so, he is, you know, proven to be a substantial, substantial actor and artist in our business.

And, yeah, but, you know, we just hang out and shoot the shit. We've known each other for over 25 years. And we just have, we have, you know, we have similar things with our marriages and our past marriages and our children. And, like, oh, we have so much in college. We both have daughters that are really good actors. who are successful now and it just keeps on going our lives take this kind of similar these similar paths and our and our careers in a way and so yeah so i do i have close friends and i like to see them the problem is i don't get to see them as much as i would like to yeah because well

i see that you're always working i'm like how does he do this how does he have the energy how does he I mean, I guess this is, you know, it's part of you like your family's part of you, that your work and your family or that's your life. Yeah. But, you know, for years now, I've only, if I have to do something for a couple of days, I'll go do it somewhere else. But for years now, I've only worked in New York, you know, purposely, you know, but that's, that's changing now. Or I guess that's changed for a while because my kids are older. And we're lucky that that Lena and I can travel together and stuff like that. Sometimes when she's not in the middle of something and I'm not in the middle of something,

we can, we spend a lot of time together when I'm working, which is really good. But mostly, you know, right now, because the Marvel shoots in New York, I'm in New York when I'm working at. You know, Wilson Fisk, Kingpin in Marvel's Hawke, I echo and Daredevil born again. You were nominated for a Critics Choice Award for Best Villain this. series. Are you someone that likes awards? Are you someone like, I don't, I don't give a shit. It's nice. But I always pictured you as Vince and Offrey, he doesn't care about awards. I mean, it's not that I don't care. It's just that it's not part of my life. Like I don't, you know, it's, it's, it's, I do care. Because I get excited when my friends win things and stuff or when they get recognition finally for something. Any kind of recognition for that matter. Like they start getting better jobs or they or they, they, they get a little. like award somewhere or something whatever i love that kind of shit so it's not like i have anything against or don't care about it i do care about it but it's just never been a part of my life

that whole thing i've just never been you know um wanted to show up at a award show just for the hell of it or anything like that or just don't do that kind of thing you never uh as a kid or a young actor thought looked in the mirror and practice your oscar award speech if you ever won an Oscar. We all do that, right? Or am I the only one? No, I don't think you're the only one. I think I used to do that too when I was younger. Yeah, younger for, yeah, for sure. Now, now I don't do it. You just did it this morning in the shower. Yes. I want to thank everyone that never believed in me. There you go. Because you made me stronger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, something like that. I just think I've had been very fortunate to have the career that I have

and never won one of those awards. I think I was nominated once for an Emmy when I was younger. But I just never been, all that stuff has never been a part of my life. This episode is brought to you by Tell us Online Security. Oh, tax season is the worst. You mean hack season? Sorry, what? Yeah, cybercriminals love tax forms.

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And, you know, you get special shoutouts every week. There's tons of stuff. Your support really keeps this podcast alive. So jump in and be a part of what makes inside of you special. Do you love playing the villain? because you've played a lot of villains. I mean, and what part would you want to play that you have and play that you're like, you know, I would love to do something like that and I could kill that and people may not see that.

I've made it known that I want to play Swamp Thing for D.C. Wow. Yeah. That's awesome. I don't think they're going to let me, but I want to. Swamp Thing. Now, that's a lot of makeup and shit, right? Well, probably.

I mean, who knows how they'll do it. But it's just the eye, you know, I used to be a something fan. The idea, talk about emo. It's like, the way that it was written, especially the one, the later one. It was, you know, this narration, his life, his narrative is just so intense and so, like, operatically a love story. And also he's just a very strange hero of sorts. And it's, uh, I just think because of the posture and the voice and, and the intensity, I could come up with something that nobody would ever expect. I could see it.

I'm going to push for it. I think he should. I think he should start a campaign. But they know it. They know you want to do it. I've made it clear on social media and stuff. and with James that I want to do it. But I don't think they're going to let me.

But it's okay. But if I was going to name something right now, then that would be the thing that I would like to do next. See, I could totally see you as in just, I think you're funny. When you, I got to know you a little bit and it's just like, you made me laugh.

You can, yeah, I just, I could see you doing more comedies. Well, I'm talking to somebody about one right now. You are. Something that I've never done before on television.

I think a lot of people would want to see that. I would like to do it. We'll see. I don't know. We'll see if it happens with. Do you think with Wilson Fiske and Daredevil, you made a villain human? Or do you see him as a villain at all? No, he's definitely a villain, but he's, I mean, when I went, he's a villain because I read,

he was a villain to me when I was a kid, when I used to have Spider-Man comics, the one Daredevil comic that I own. So he's definitely a villain. But when I play him, I don't play him as a king. He's a king. And, you know, he doesn't have to answer to anybody. So that, just that, the amount of stuff you can get from just committing to that, like as an act of the amount of choices and the way you do things and the way you speak to people and react to people on the set, you know, in character and stuff.

and his posture and his voice and the way he deals with his emotions and how he treats his wife like a queen. And it's, yeah, I really do think it's more, I think of him as a king rather than. Yeah. Do you believe that every antagonist thinks they're a hero? I hope so. I mean, you sort of have to. Well, that's what makes them truly scared. Yeah.

In real life, it's very scary. You think there's a period in your life that you rarely talk about, but you think shaped you? Like whether, you know, it's a dark place that you were there and you got out of it and that just made you even stronger? Oh, for sure. It's being a chubby kid for sure. I grew up on the street and, you know, in Florida. I was there. I spent every summer with my grandfather in Brooklyn here,

but I was brought up in Florida in a small town called High Lea, Florida. And believe it or not, it was rough. It was rough. And I got bullied a lot and beat up a lot and chicks played on me a lot and humiliated a lot. And learned how to, you know, know, fight back. But yeah, those are, those are wounds that have healed, but the scars are still there. Yeah, I feel the same way.

You know, with childhood, I think of childhood, and I think of this kid and he's dumb, he's this, he's that, and you go to therapy and you work on yourself and you realize, okay, they say, well, how is that possible? How are you that stupid if you've succeeded in this and you've done this? Look at all you've done. And you're aware of it. You're smart enough to equate it and go, yeah, that doesn't make sense. But it doesn't take it away.

It's still there. Like you say, the scars are still there. And every once in a while, you feel that way that kid felt. And you can't explain it. And you just have to be like, oh, my God, I still feel this after all these years. It doesn't go away, does it? No, it doesn't go away. And not completely.

And it also, you know, I use it all the time, you know, in my acting. I there's a couple of events that happened in my life when I'm when I was a kid that I use when the emotion is the correct emotion that helps service the story I will I will I will use it I will bring up the event in me and and speak the author's words through that event and that puts me in the right place it serve as long as it services the story correctly I'll use stuff from my real life it's crazy because Because I've had roles where I inadvertently or subconsciously tap into something that hurt or I could hear someone yelling at me and remember how it felt and the power they had over me. And I'll reverse that and I'll become that character they were because I see it so vividly and how it made me feel.

and turn things. So it's a gift, but it's also a curse at the same time. You know what I mean? It's like, I wish a lot of this never happened. But at the same time, maybe it happened and, you know, I don't know. I don't know what to say. Maybe it's a, you know, because I think it's experience. I think that a lot of actors, some have that experience of darker times that makes them,

brings out the power, brings out the emotion. Yeah. I would say all. the time. I would say both men and women that I've known that are incredible performers. They all have backgrounds where they consider themselves from an inferior person to everybody else. And I think that was forced on them by society or their peers at the time. Do you stick up for people? Do you still see somebody get in a certain way and that brings back those memories? Oh, yeah. Like, you know, both of my sons are big dudes like me. And, you know, they both in different ways of experience bullying and stuff like that in life. And so I can tell them stories about what I went through. And so I think sometimes it helps. Hopefully it helps all the time. But you have to sort of find that strength yourself, really. But I'm able to relate to them and talk to them about.

those kinds of issues that they have. I mean, it's very common knowledge, right? That bullying is, is worse than ever because of social networks and stuff. So it's so crazy, too, because people like, you know, growing up, it's just like, oh, he's the funny guy,

he's the goofball, he's this, he's that. And so, I mean, even to me, but tapping into that dark side, it's hard to say, but it's easy. It's easier for me to be, to be that than, I guess, for a lot of people. And I never understood why. And then I started tech going, oh, of course you know why.

It's experience. So I've been teaching for, I guess, 25 years or something. But for the last, I guess, almost 15 years now or something like that. I've been teaching at the Strasbourg Institute, where they bring in NYU students that are studying technique and the Strasbourg students. So I'll do an intensive course for five days. I'll do four to five hours a morning or an evening every day consecutively for five days. And during that period, it's a very intense class,

and during that period of the students take these enormous leap forward in the performances. And it's a very intense course. It takes along many hours a day because I work with each person in front of everybody individually. Together we build a new monologue. And through the building of that monologue, they're able to learn things about acting in a very practical way. So basically, the class is based on using what everybody learns out there in acting class, whatever the technique they're learning is, how to use that in a practice. practical way on set because it's so confusing. They're teaching you all these things, but then once you get on a set, it feels like everything goes out the window.

Right. And that was like I remember those feelings. But I had a teacher who's still my mentor, Sharon Chatton, and she's in LA now, has been for a long time. I had her, she taught me that stuff in a practical way, how to use. use like I was studying method acting with her and she was she instilled in me this practical way of using it on the set without holding things up without without having to talk about it to anybody or just to do you know just to do your thing and and so the reason why I brought this up is because what to connect with what you were saying before is that when it comes to self-loathing

and being afraid of making a mistake um it it's all of these young actors are going through that like we do. When the weather cools down, Golden Nugget Online Casino turns up the heat. This winter make any moment golden and play thousands of games like

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Please play responsibly. And these insecurities, there's this great quote from Martha Graham, the one who basically invented jazz dance. And it's called, you should look it up. You would like this, actually, Michael. It's called The Blessed Unrest. It's a quote from her in a letter that she sent to Agnes de Mill, another choreographer who was her best friend.

And in it, it's an incredible thing. I read it to all of my students right at the beginning of the first day of class. Because in it, she speaks of this thing called the Blessed Unrest, which means it's like she says it much better than I could ever say it in the quote. But basically it's about not focusing on. judging yourself. In fact, it doesn't even matter that you even like your performance. As long as you just do the work to keep your channel open, it doesn't matter that you like yourself or not. It just matters that you show up and you do it. You keep the channel open and you're playing

it completely as yourself and, you know, layer things on top of it. But do not ever consider your performance do not ever consider what people think about your performance it doesn't matter that you believe in yourself at all it just matters that you do the work and everything will work out in the end that's intense yeah you should read it no i will holy shit yeah so we get into the so so there's a whole portion of my class where we talk about that freely like a big conversation like i'm not up there just being like mr teacher like my class are very much a conversation and they get very intense and and and moving actually throw away your ego in a lot of ways yeah just get out of the way of

yourself it's not important to the to what you're doing it has nothing to do with what you're doing it's a whole other thing you're wasting your time there is no escape hatch when it comes to acting there's no escape action it's like this thing where arthur 10, he was a great writer and also guy who directed like Bonnie and Clyde and stuff. But he was a member of actor's studio. And he was one of the moderators there. And he said, you know how actors will be doing something, especially greener actors and say, oh, I went out like I was in and then I went out.

Arthur Penn used to say, you're never out. You're always in. You're in all the time. Whether you're out, you're in all the time. And just know that it's a struggle no matter what. But that saying that you went out and you're no longer in is an escape hatch. Sorry, there is no escape hatch. You have to do it.

The camera is rolling. So anything you're going through is part of the struggle, which ends up to be part of your performance. You know, that's weirdly comforting. Yeah. Like at first I was like, that's, I don't know. And then the more you talk about it, I'm like, yeah. So what I say to them is, you know, we all want to achieve a hundred percent in our art. But we know, even though we don't want to admit it, we know that we can never really achieve 100%.

Right. But our struggle to achieve it is what the audience gets. Wow. I'm going to read this. You got to send me it. So I don't forget, Ryan, you write it down. We got to go soon. Tell me about working with Darren Aronofsky and caught stealing and Austin Butler and

Liam Schreiber. Yeah. Well, I'll start with Darren. Darren reminded me so much of Kubrick. They're like from the same area of New York too. And he has almost the same exact voice. So it was weird. I told him so too.

It was weird. But, you know, Modine reminded me that Stanley's before he died, he saw pie. Darren's first film and said to, he said he said it to us or said it to him or something that he was going to be a great director one day, this guy. That's what that, which is crazy, right? Wow. So I got to tell him that, first of all, which was nice. But no, he, you know, he's called me in for things in the past and he's never given me parts. And he gave me this, this part. And so I had to learn a lot of, of a lot of Yiddish play of violent Hasidic Jew. I did and I had three weeks to learn Yiddish. Wow, that's hard man. And you're like you were having like full conversations in Yiddish so it's like hard. But and you have to do it right and um because otherwise it's not cool. So you have to do it right. Uh, but one of the saving graces was Leab and I never. met before and we're both New York actors and have been our whole careers. Wow. We have a lot of friends in common, but we never met.

And I was just, you know, so excited to meet him. And we just got along so well. You know, he's, you know, first of all, he's obviously incredibly talented and, but he's such a lovable grumpy, bumpy, dude. I love him to death. I just every day, I just couldn't wait to get to work to just give him a hug, honestly. That is awesome. And was Darren pretty intense? He's an intense guy, right?

Dan's a pretty intense guy, yeah. But, you know, the thing about Darren is that he, like Kubrick was, he's very practical in his direction. He'll just say, do it better, you know, like that's not working. Like, you got to do it another way. Like that, like, you're very upfront, very honest. No ego, just purely. knows what the scene should look like, knows what it should sound like, and wants to get it there. He's like, yeah, that doesn't, it doesn't translate. I don't believe it. I don't believe it.

You have to make it be like that. You can't say it like that. You have to say it different than that. You cannot say it like that. That doesn't look at all that. And you're like, okay. And you don't get intimidated by that. No, it's my job. Like, it's my job to throw out everything that I've worked on and do what the director wants. That's my job. Well, a lot of. directors will be just they'll coddle you like okay that was great that was great let's uh let's try and want he he's not like that he's straightforward let's go this is what i want you're straight forward but even when directors try to coddle me i i make them get to the point quick because i don't want to really listen to the coddling yeah i just say just tell me what's wrong like what's not working

like and so they'll say well the kind of like no no don't talk about kind of things like just tell me what is not working where i failed and i will try to to fail less on the next. And, and, um, so, so, Leav was just so wonderful. And immediately we felt like brothers. I mean, I'll speak for myself. Immediately I felt like his brother.

I just wanted to hug him and kiss. Oh. And, um, he's got a beautiful wife and a beautiful new baby too. And anyway, they're just wonderful people. And then Austin is just exactly how I imagined he would be. He's like this open, hearted, open stomach, open heart, just soaking in everything that he can possibly soak in, very interested in every take, doing it correctly. It always comes in prepared every day,

looking like, you know, the most beautiful creature you've ever seen in your life. But, but then going to these places where you're like a little worried about him, you know, when he's acting. So, you know, it's just wonderful. honestly I had the best time I was only there for with them for a few weeks but but I got to see this movie I can't wait to see caught stealing when can we see caught stealing I think it's out now I think it's on now oh I'm watching this shit tonight it's really fun yeah and Ryan Murphy's FX series the beauty uh which is airing on hulu and Disney Plus Disney Plus likes you a lot you mean you got you know dare devil

born again season two coming out March 24th in Disney Plus so it's like they're just are they offering you a lot of stuff. The jobs that the people, the kind of things they're doing right now, I'm like a sci-fi guy. So I love sci-fi. I mean, I love all kinds of things, but that's one of the things I love. And I'm very fortunate. But, but, um, Ryan Murphy is why I'm doing the, his shows. He always calls me in to do something on one of his shows. And sometimes I can do it. Sometimes I can't. But when I can, I'll just go over and do it for a couple of days. And that was so much fun. I mean, look, how is any actor of my generation, especially an actor guy like who's going to turn down working with isabella russe me yeah no

no fucking way like and and it was exactly what i had hoped she is so wonderful she's so well prepared she is so smart she's so beautiful you know she is funny she's wicked she's um just has an incredible sense of humor about herself um we We had friends in common, like it was like, you know, these kind of people are like what I, why I wanted to be an actor, you know. Yeah. So, of course, I'm going to go for a couple of days and shoot this thing. And Peter Gallagher and I got to hang out. We've known each other for years.

Like, it's, I'm very, very fortunate that Ryan Murphy calls on me to come in and do parts. It's always a blast. It's always a weird part that I look at. And I'm like, I don't know how to do this. Like, I don't know how to play this part. Like, I have no fucking idea how to play this part. You need to help me. Like, he's no, it's just this.

You know, just do it. You always do something interesting. Just do it. Like, I'm like, okay, but I, like, this is so. And then somehow, some way I'll show up on set and this character will, I'll carry this this character into the thing. And it's, it's always a blast. Brother, you got so much great stuff going.

And, you know, more importantly, you look. great and you sound like you're just having a good time. You're just going with the flow and things are all working out. So I hope they keep working out. You deserve it. And I always appreciate you coming back on. I'm going to bug you in another year or so. Whenever you want, I'll be there. I love you. And I'm going to text you about that book. Yeah. I'll text you. I'll text you right now. It's just a quote. Oh, it's just a quote. I thought you said to read something. No, it's a letter that she wrote her friend that people. pass around because it's such an incredible letter.

Okay. Where she is, where she is talking to Agnes DeMille about Agnes feeling insecure about her teaching of, in choreography of dance. And she just, and, and Martha just covers the whole thing in like 10 paragraphs. Awesome. All right. Daredevil, born again, season two, you guys, go check this shit out. I mean, you get to see some great acting, obviously.

And I love you, buddy. Thanks for being here. You too, Michael. I love you too, man. You take care of yourself. This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate launch. The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by one of the biggest delivery networks.

Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. Vincent, Benny, thanks for being here. I always love having you on. You bring it. And I just love your, I love your honesty. I do. And I appreciate it. And congrats with all the work you're doing now.

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