Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Walker’s Keegan Allen: Working on Yourself

Episode Date: June 15, 2021

Keegan Allen (Pretty Little Liars, Walker) brings his cheerful and bright attitude to this week's episode and discusses his experience as a hopeless romantic, his teenage angst, and how he’s managed to stay on the ‘straight and narrow’ avoiding downward spirals in this industry. Keegan opens up on his relationship with his late father and how he’s still been able to connect with him even after his passing. We also talk about how Pretty Little Liars’ success coincided with the birth of social media, drama with other actors on set, and growing up in Hollywood. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I got a message from Nico, who's a, he's a listener. He's a patron. And you can join patron, patreon.com slash inside of you. And amazing kids, family, Zach, love that kid. But he said he was watching America's Got Talent. And so I checked this clip out. And of course, you know, Simon Collet, Callow got emotional. I got a little emotional watching it.

But this girl who, you know, faced a lot of adversity, she sang the song and it was beautiful. But more importantly, she said something after the song. She said something that was so profound and beyond her years that I had to rewind it and I had to write it down. I had to write this shit down. And it was this. She said, you can't wait until life isn't hard anymore. before you decide to be happy. You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy.

That struck a chord, man. And I just thought, isn't that we're always waiting for, we're waiting for, well, once things get a little easier, once life isn't hard, then I'll be able to be happy. I'll be able to get my shit together. It's time now to be. happy even while things are hard even while things are so i you know goes back to you me goes back to everybody listening i just fuck man talk about a mental health moment that was a i i i i

teared up i i had a little cry there what was her talent when she was a singer but i just thought about that i was like you know i got i got to wait till my anxiety is is is on track i got a wait till everything is right before you know then i then i'll feel happy um and it's kind of bullshit it's like find ways to be happy now through it all it just hit me i don't know does it not hit you no of course it does yeah yeah it's not that your issues my issues aren't important and whatever but in the scheme of things i guess in life it's just you know you know i won't dwell on it too much but you can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy and i thought that was really neat so anyway welcome to the show i hope you have it a great week um great guests this

week before I get into the guest, the lovely Kagan Allen. If you're here for Kagan, if you're here for just enjoyment, a good interview, please subscribe. Ryan, tell them where they can scribe and keep supporting the podcast. Oh, you can subscribe. The podcast is everywhere you can find the podcast. Stitcher, Spotify, and you can find us on YouTube. You can watch it. YouTube.com slash inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Yes, and what are the handles for inside of you? Do you want to follow us? You can follow at. Inside of You pod on Twitter and at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook. That's right.

That's very easy and we really love that. If you write a review, we love you even more. I have to say if you go to Hello at Inside of You podcast and leave messages, it's very hard because they get really stacked up with messages and it takes me a couple of months to go through them and sort through them. And I respond sometimes the big long winded emails I kind of absorb and I don't really respond to because it's sometimes too hard. But like short one line, two lines, those are easy to respond to.

And, uh, but some people feel like they need to tell me a story and so be it. But sometimes it's hard for me to get to it. And, you know, just don't expect me to get to it or not, don't expect me to have a response to it always. The inside of you store, we got some new stuff. We got these awesome journals. I thought that was very appropriate for the podcast that, you know, it's a journal to write your life in all your shit that's going on in your life.

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10% off everything in the Sunspin store the inside of the store has a bunch of other stuff too Lex Funko Pops and Smallville lunchboxes and all that shit I'm going to read a letter at the end from a fan thought it was kind of touching it was one of those letters that I actually read and printed out but and don't forget to join

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So it's, you get to ask me questions on my Q&A segment, which Ryan was a part of last month. Do you remember that? I do remember that. Yeah. I like that. That was easy. You just asked me questions.

You were great at it. I can read. You can read. And if anyone had any doubts, join Patreon and go watch. video today's guest interesting guy um we talk about pretty little liars we talked about art painting photography photography this guy is world class just a a great guy's on the show walker he's been in tons of stuff and we had a great conversation i really think you're going to enjoy it so why don't we just get right into kegan allen it's my point of you you're listening to inside of you

with Michael Rosenbaum Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience Oh, God. How you doing, man? I'm good, man. You know, look, it's Jared Padalecki, your buddy on Walker. He was like, you got to get Keegan on the show.

That's one of the first things he said. He must like you because I don't think he'd say that. You guys get along pretty well, huh? I adore him. I think he's really a special guy. for sure and uh and it's also also really cool too because i i i've i've uh i watched smallville when i was when i was younger and i really think honestly you're the best uh lex luther come on oh dude you you actually brought grounded reality to that character i feel like every other

actor that played lex luther was who okay so let's go through who played less oh god you put me on the spot man right yeah jean hatman but he you know he played it like in a crazy fun way he's he's always my favorite but yeah i know what you're saying okay jean hatman So here's the thing. You leaned into a grounded reality. Gene Hackman played it up. It was campy. He did it.

It was interesting, but you were grounded. You felt, I felt for your character. I remember being a child and watching that show and being like, wow, Lex Luthor, man.

Well, you know, I was going to say, I give props to, I mean, the whole production, I've talked about it, but like,

you know, from the writing to the director of photography, to the special effects, to everything that it just turned into a really great show. But thank you. I mean, you know, you always do your best and you never know how fans are going to react. And I wasn't a big Superman fan growing up. So, but hearing that from someone who watched the show and like, you know, I just really appreciate that.

That's nice. Well, you rose above all of the other actors that tried, that attempted to, I mean, obviously, outside of the animated versions of this character. I mean, you brought, you brought a real humanity to. the character. I felt like, you know, Kevin Spacey was a little nuts. Jesse Eisenberg is like, you know, he's fine, but you, every time I think Lex Luther, I think of you, and I think of you pushing your father off the bat of the building. It's good, man. Ah, we had some fun. John Glover and I, terrific actor. Well, look, you know, the great thing, there's, there's a, the great thing is hearing

you say this. It's very kind of you, but it's also, it sucks because I can't respond and like, I can't tell you what I think of other because then I sound like a dick. No, you don't. But no, well, I'm not in terms of like, you know, other actors. I respect all the actors that have played it. But, you know, I think it comes down to, you know, preference. I mean, personal choice, but also like, I don't know. Everything's subjective.

I just wanted to say I have a reverence for your work in that. And also I've been, you know, enjoying your talks, you know, throughout the last. however many years that you've been doing the podcast circuit i loved you on theo vaughan i found it was very uh fun and controversial very interesting dude theo vaughan let me tell you about something i went on theo vaughan's show i walk in there it's almost like he i love theo and this isn't knocking him but it almost was like you know i don't know if he was like you know being david letterman or what he was doing but i walk in and he's just got a pen and he's writing and he's not really paying any attention to me when I walk in at all which as an actor you're like what the fuck man

give me some love here he's like hey man and he's just kind of doing his thing like he's like this really intense interview and I'm like oh fuck deal deal's going method for this uh you know for this interview and then of course he's like so tell me about alison mac you know and starts getting into that right away and you know I gave him yeah and I gave him shit because I'm like hey come back in my podcast, man. You're hilarious and blah, he's like, yeah, I want to, man. I'm just real busy. He's a good guy. But I'm like, dude, you got two million hits off that interview with the whole thing with Allison Mack in my interview. Come back on my freaking show. So, uh, but anyway, Theo, Theo is one of the funniest people on the planet. Honestly, he is, he's so unique. Even when you

ask other comedians who are, you know, my friend Harlem Williams, you know, the guy from dumb and Dumber, the guy who's like, you tricking on some of grandpa's cough medicine there, buddy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He goes, yeah, Theo Vaughn is really funny, man. I mean, that guy's a freaking character, Bob. And he is. He's a funny guy. But look, back, we got to put the direction on you, the focus on you now.

All right, let's do it. Oh, man, this is scary. First of all, you have a great name, Keegan Allen. Is that your real name? It's my real name. I know. Why do I get Michael Rosenbaum and you get Keegan, Alan. Well, look, it was almost, it was almost a totally different, very Jewish name. I mean,

but my dad changed his last name. What was his last name? I actually don't know because he was very secretive about his last name. So, but I do know that he wanted to have a flow and a last name that was very easy to say. And so, and then my name, which I found out what it meant from Disneyland of all the places. Not a very interesting, but you know, one of those, you know, those like things where you put the quarter in and it generates the name thing. Right. Like when I was very young.

And it's a Celtic name that means little fiery one, which was an eco booster at the age of six. Your little fiery one, Keegan. Keegan, yeah. Little fiery one. I like that. Were your parents pretty cool growing up? I mean, you said Jewish.

Were you bar mitzvahed? I was not bar mitzvah. I was actually well I had a choice to kind of my mother's Jewish and my father is was Catholic and I kind of oscillated between religions growing up but I you know now it's I'm a bit agnostic but I'm more spiritual I'm more into I'm more into spirituality than the idea of religion now which is which is very comfortable. Nice. And your parents, so they didn't really stick religion on you at all. They kind of let you go your own way. No, my parents were extraordinary in that they were both artists. So they cared so much about not caring, but in a, in a really logical way, in a way that

let me be free. And they supported my art. They supported when I was down, when I was sad. they let me be the person that I wanted to be. And it was an interesting, you know, experience growing up where I saw all my friends being controlled, very controlled and, like, held down by their parents' constructs of who the parents wanted them to be. And my parents were like, look, go do whatever you want to do. If you fuck up, it's on you.

And where was this? Where did you grow up? I grew up in Hollywood. You grew up in Hollywood. yeah that's not easy you wrote a book about it yeah I have a photography book called Hollywood and stories and voices from Foreverland that yeah is a love letter to growing up in in Hollywood okay I saw that book I know I know what you're talking about now but it was like it was pictures so when I heard book I thought I was thinking something else but like I saw

some of the pictures and everything I was like holy crap this guy does photography and he he sings he's got a song I mean in the song's beautiful that song had to be It's called Million Miles Away, right? Yeah, yeah, that million miles away. And it had to be put in a TV show. You had to get that placed. I mean, here's the thing about all my music. I am a hopeless romantic.

I love the idea of being in love. And I've always felt that way. And I learned to feel from the movies. I learned to feel from good books and literature growing up and poems and Shakespeare. And there was something really like haunting and romantic. about writing love songs and so a lot of any kind of music that has been you know aggregated into my life from the outside world it comes through me in like a really like very syrupy it's like spoon feeding ice cream too much like I love music but I feel like I've with I've like

held back a lot of music from releasing it because I feel like sometimes it's a bit too much like it's a bit like lame but well you say lame but like if it's coming from the heart they always say whatever you're doing if you have feeling and you mean it that's when it's the best right whether it's acting or whether it's music so if it's coming out in your music maybe you shouldn't hold back and you should just let it go and go this is what i'm feeling this is what i'm writing and people either gravitate towards it or or they won't so yeah yeah yeah i mean and growing up i had like interesting i had an interesting relationship with music my parents you know they they introduced me to you know music like bob dillon and the great

Dead and Van Morrison and The Doors, very, very controversial music for a very young person, especially Bob Dylan, which I took to and I just was obsessed with Bob Dylan growing. I was very young. I'm still obsessed with him to this day. But his music was so interesting to me because, I mean, he absolutely jumped started the era of folk, you know, protester music. music. And at a time when people's voices needed to be heard, he was creating these beautiful lyrical structure, almost like a rap now would be a rap battle. He was doing that. And to me, it was just, it was unlike anything I'd ever heard and anything I've ever heard up until now. He was, you know, putting his heart on his sleeve and, you know, millions of other people's

hearts on his sleeve. What are you saying? So that, Elliot Smith, I really obsessed with him growing up. Tragic, tragic ending to it. Tragic, tragic, but just made the music just so much deeper and, oh, man, even now. You want to have a sunny day and ruin it? Elliot Smith. Elliot Smith. Nick Drake does that to me as well. He's kind of soothing.

Dude, you know, Nick Drake is another horrifically just that when you listen to his music and you hear that strike. I mean, there's no other musician like Nick Drake. No. I mean, you put on any of his albums. I mean, you put on any of his albums. pink moon yeah put on pink moon and it transports you to another like a dip it's so cerebral yeah and it's almost timeless it feels like it's you know you could be listening to something in the 70s but you could be listening to something in the 90s or now it just it just it does but it transports you

to something just soothing and uh yeah it's it's good music uh but i think that you shouldn't be afraid to do that i just came out with an album and you know i'm 48 years old i'm not going to be a freaking rock star but I love music and I love and I try not to think of lyrics so much as like I have to be so brilliant in these lines and I want people to be you know I want to evoke all these and you just kind of write music and you play it and you sing it and you say what you feel and you know and I just think that when I listen to that song I just felt like yeah I could tell what you're saying it's just very it's it's how you're feeling it's just a very I think that's important though i think you should continue doing that i mean how many i mean i will i will it's there's you know

i have had this you walk the line you know with with something i mean i like to dip my toe into everything creatively like right now i'm painting i'm taking a painting class with one of my favorite plain air painters that he's i reached reached out to him and i was like hey you know he's amazing his name's jesse powell amazing like oh like it'll blow your mind he's so talented And with plain air, what's nuts is, I mean, as an actor, you can, you can understand the objective of a scene, you read a script, you go, okay, who am I, what am I trying to say, what is the writer trying to say, how do I marry that, what does the scene warrant, what are the notes, like all of that is all, it's a topography of thought. But when you're painting something

compositionally, you're creating something that you see, it's your perspective, same thing with acting but like what's so mystifying about plain air oil painting is you can just hodgepodge a bunch of paint in an area and up close it just looks like nothing and then you step back and it's this perfect composition of an exact perspective and it transports you to that moment and uh i've been trying to understand that because it's all just shadows and highlights that's it there's no it's all your perspective it's the perspective that's being kind of like it's not being forced it's like the hand of someone else just like you being like here let me show you this so remarkable what what got you into that see so for me i was going through a tough time i had like a lot of anxiety i was dealing with a lot

of shit and i just said i need to check out and i went to connecticut across the country and i checked in for three weeks of this place and um you know it was just i had to get my mind straight and i started doing art and I hate I hated sorry I hated art because I didn't realize it but as a kid I was a colorblind kid who I just I just never did well in art class I was the only kid who got like D's or F's and art I had a short attention span I've talked about that but all of a sudden I hate art and even going in high school I'd smell the art route you know art class and I'd walk around a different different way because I just wanted to get as far away as I could and was hoping I didn't have to take our class. And so they, I don't want to say for us, but they really told me that

it's important to try it. Just try something you don't have to be great at. And for me, I've always had to be great at everything. I feel like I have to, I have to prove myself. I have to show everybody how great I am. And with this, I started art. And then I started doing it with my friends at the house. I'm not good. I'm not even remotely good, but there's something that takes me away that just takes me away from the present or makes me actually more present and not and disconnects me from sort of all these other external things of you know trying too hard and impressing in this and i noticed that that 30 minutes or that hour or whatever it takes it's just for me it's it's just being and there's something really nice about it now is that why you started doing that

yeah i mean my mother is a as a painter she does watercolor and that's fascinating to me because it worked backwards from oil you're working on your you build on watercolor whereas and you build on oil but it's reversed you know you would you wouldn't be able to I mean you could

I mean technically put put down a darker color and then paint lighter but what's what's interesting is that growing up both my parents were painters and they did it as like you know my dad would do these sprawling paintings of acrylic

and oil all over the place. And my mom is doing watercolor paint. My dad was an actor, so he was constantly doing very thespian things in the house and emoting. And, you know, it was a very dramatic upbringing because, you know, being around two artists, you know, it's chaos.

I mean, it's chaos, but it's, there's something beautiful about the chaos. But getting into painting recently has been therapeutic. I've really, I've noticed that because of, all of the media and the intensity in the world right now. It's very easy to like, your brain becomes a blender of other people's thoughts and emotions. And, you know, it's very easy to slip into this vortex of energy now that never before has it been this easy.

I mean, if you want to feel, you know, complete cosmogonic chaos, So you can step into any social media realm right now. You can step into anything and find yourself overwhelmed, you know? So I've been working on like doing meditation because I was having panic attacks over nothing. I just, there was nothing happening. I was just having really bad anxiety, really bad panic attacks. So I've been doing lots of meditation, lots of yoga, lots of painting, playing music, listening to me, taking time just to do nothing, to swim, go on walks. how much does that help you how much to honestly because you know go back to your childhood

you said there was it was a little chaotic it was dramatic it was all these things do you think did it did it was in a good way or was it both in a good way in a bad way did it create some anxiety did you did you feel stressed were there did you have that teenage angst you know that oh man angst my first book was all my teenage angst all of it life love beauty was all written uh I was like I was teen angst for most of my life until I like hit I think like 25 and then I was like oh man I got to I got to like figure this out um but yeah growing up I mean I feel I feel like everybody has the same story in a different way and my angst growing up lent itself to now finding the peace to know

that it was okay to feel down and sad sometimes and it's okay to feel down and sad even now but to to not linger to not linger too far into those feelings and understand that they're just thoughts and feelings and you can be a passenger to those

moments and then like because nothing here's the other thing Michael like nothing really matters everything is temporary and that's the greatest awakening that I had was in my like 20 my late 20s I was like oh wow like nothing is forever like everything's temporary so like to live in the moment and be present in yourself it helps but you know if you're having anxiety and

you're having depression sometimes you have to go a little bit deeper into why you know and what how did you go deeper I did I have been I've been I've been really examining uh you know I've had a this is a real amazing blessing to work on show like Walker and have just such an amazing supportive group of people around and a collaborative environment and one where we all feel already like a family. So coming to work, I'm in a very, I'm in a very happy place, a very good environment, an environment that promotes creation and promotes creativity in a way that, you know, it allows me then to focus on my off time on things that make me a better person, a better man, a better human.

Because I feel like, you know, especially now, especially in my life now, I mean, I'm in my 30s. And I'm just starting to understand when my dad would be like, you just wait until you're older and you'll understand. Like, I'm just now getting to that where I'm like, I see the crest of the light from that conversation in the distance. And I'm like, oh, starting to get it, you know? Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before.

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Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait, download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. You know, it's very seldom. It's rare that, you know, a man, a young guy like yourself has published books and music and been on hit TV shows and, you know, paints and is learning about himself and is more comfortable with himself at such a young age, especially born, you know, growing up in Hollywood, it seems to me that. if anything, I should be talking to some guy who's just getting off coke binge. Well, no.

It's interesting. Well, you know, no, no. I understand what you're saying. I get it. And to some extent, I mean, I feel like, I feel like I've lived, I've lived, you know, at some point, I've lived a version of that life.

And it didn't work for me. You know what I mean? It didn't serve me. And I have a lot of friends that have gone down a darker path. thus never returned and I've seen it you know what I mean and I've had it had it very close to me so I feel like in some ways that the destruction and the misery created um around me kind of taught me a lesson before I myself fell too deep into something and um and for that I'm really grateful you know I was

I was kind of given a glimpse into many many different lives and I'm just I'm just lucky I mean You never know, but I'm very lucky at this one singular point. So you saw, whether it's friends or just people in the industry, you had enough foresight or whatever to acknowledge, I'm not going down this path. I'm not allowing myself to go any further down it. I'm sort of like hindering or lingering in this area, this gray area, and I've just got to take off now. I've got so much potential and I've got so much life to live.

Is that sort of a conscious thought or something that took years for you to sort of understand? Yeah, I know. No, you're, it's, well, what it is is like growing, growing up in Hollywood. That's why I brought up the book earlier. It was like a love, it was a love letter to a town that now, I mean, it feels totally different. But, and I knew at the time when I was photographing Hollywood that it was a period piece. I knew that I had a responsibility as a, as a photographer, as an art of as a, as, as, as, as, as, In some ways, I had a creative muse within me that allowed me to see the temporary nature of Hollywood.

And at the time, this was way before any accountability structures were put in place. And I saw so many failings in not only Hollywood, but just in growing up in California in general. and how like how that how that shaped me was just being so close to it like being able to feel the heat radiating off of bad decisions and being able to step back far enough that I saw the train wrecks but I wasn't injured too badly from them wow yeah no it absolutely makes sense I think that's what happens all of us I remember being 13 years old 13 I think I was 13 years old. I was an eighth grade. And I was really small from my age. And I remember I went over to this guy, kids' house and other kids.

I won't mention their names right now. One's in prison. But I remember they were huffing gas. They were just like, and I'm like, what the fuck are you guys doing? And they're huffing gas. Rosenbaum, get in here.

Huff some gas. And I was like, no. I can't. I'm allergic to gas or whatever the fuck I said. I don't know. I got it. And then I just remember there was, it was just these at this age, I look back, how are they this fucked up? And there's all these. And by the way, two of those kids ended up, you know, being really big bullies and trouble with the law. One guy went to prison. I remember something inside of me. And it wasn't that I had the best childhood because boy i did not but uh you know people always have it worse i mean you just kind of move on but i remember just leaving cutting through yards and going i don't belong here this is wrong i something no one had to tell me something inside of me said as a 13 year old boy

this is not right and that was a gift i don't know it was a gift from god or whatever you call it but as a 13 year old kid you're used to succumb to all the you know peer the peer pressure and the you know people say come on Rosenbaum like oh yeah I guess I should do that because they're doing it and I don't know why but I just knew that I needed to get the fuck out of there and maybe that's in a way what happened to you when you're seeing all these things you're like you know what this is there has to be that moment that enlightening moment right oh yeah man it's spirits I mean I like to look at it as like it's a spirit's guidance. Like you have like an inner counselor and you can listen to it.

It's a gut. I mean, gut instinct. You know, Gavin DeBacker wrote a really great book about the gift of fear. That's a crazy book. But that we all have this gut instinct that kind of protects us. And,

you know, even now it's interesting as I'm older. I mean, you always want to, you always want to see the best in people. And sometimes you'll see something that's benevolent in front of you and you go no they can't i can't do that to them they don't mean it and like no man my gut usually is like it'll it'll be like no dude they mean it's it's real and so that i've always really

trusted my gut instinct and it sounds like it was good that you did too um because you have you have these um split universes where there's i mean the multiverse theory is really astounding but you have a split universe where you make a choice and you're there's a version of you that's living in the other choice right now of choices that you've made and there's no way to tell if you're good if it's a good or bad choice it's just you know you're you're always kind of zigzagging through that reality so I always like to try and make sure that I'm making conscious decisions that are that in the long term I won't I won't regret but I'll also So I'll understand why I made them, you know?

But there's always, you know, no matter how good you are, there's always the bad that's You always, yeah, you always fucking make some mistake for sure. Well, not only that, I'm thinking, you know, you're doing the right thing a lot of times and there's some dark thoughts along those ways where you can easily stray from the good and go bad. You're like, ah, you know what, fucking, you know, fuck it. And it's not like it's all positive thinking during that positive thought of things that you're doing, I don't know if I'm making much sense here, and you're doing the right things and

you continue to do the right things. There's always that dark force. That's always little things. Oh, yeah, man. It's just a concatenation of thoughts that, yeah, I hear you, man. And that's, and that's something that, you know, you constantly as a human being, it's like not talked about enough. And I think that's, like, that's kind of why there's a mental health issue that's, that's rampant in, in just our, our whole society. And it's, it spans through, urban environment and rural environments because people are, you know, it's just, what is the quote and fight club? Like, our great war is a spiritual war. Like we have, especially being a man right now in 2021, you know, it's something that I want to be the best version of a human being and I want to

keep getting better and I want to learn from my mistakes. I want to actually not just say it in a false altruistic way on Instagram or you're like I want to be a better guy like I don't I actually do like I want to learn from the things that I did incorrectly and if if if I'm the only judge of that I want to be able to understand why I did certain things or said certain things or made certain decisions and then learn from them down the road and a lot of that you know it lends itself to being a better person from for myself not not really for anybody else isn't that the truth that's you just nailed it like we get sit here and try to make you know Ryan here my engineer and I want Ryan to think I'm a great guy and you know and I want people to look at me and go oh he really

tries hard and he really loves everybody but I'm a fuck up I am a fuck up I need to I need to believe all the things that some people are believing. And I need to make those thoughts become a reality. I need to work on myself, but also knowing that, not being too hard on myself. Like that, that's important because we are going to fuck up. You know, look, you always, you always hear you have to love yourself first, right? It's like if you can't love anybody else. So, you know, I don't ask that question much, but it's like some, it looks like you love yourself because you've been working on yourself a lot. And I think that's working. Yeah. It's hard to say that. I took a lot. of figuring out, like, what I was missing.

So I felt like I was missing things within myself. And I went on this, like, whole journey and I have a really great group of friends around me that I, very bespoke to self-betterment. And Jared is definitely one of those people as well. Like, Jared is an incredibly open source of, you know, you would think, so you would think someone like Jared would be, you know, he wouldn't get this part, he gets it. And he's so open and he talks and he's like a loving man,

which is very palpable and wonderful, especially on set working with him and being brothers. It was an immediate click. And I have great friends around me that you're like, hey, you should read Michael A. Singers, the untethered soul. Hey, you should read Gary Zuccoves, the seat of soul. Hey, you should get into Sad Guru. Hey, you should start doing yoga.

Hey, you should start. Like, I have friends that are all about that. And I used to, when I was younger, I had friends that were like, here, have a drink. Ah, man, you know, fuck all that. Do this. Like, do this, escape this way. And it never helped. You know, it didn't help.

It made, it actually, it amplified the resistance within me. And so, you know, just recently, especially being here in Austin, I've been able to really focus on not just self-love, but just like, understanding myself better and finding peace because dude it's so easy to to lose control especially in today's world where you're just alone with yourself and you're being spoon-fed constant chaos you know constant i you know it's funny is after this interview i'm going to ask suzanne your publicist who i've known for you she was my publicist on smallville and uh she's awesome for for working this out but i'm going to be like get his email because i need to know what I need to read. I want to get through. I want to read the top shit. Don't look,

you've read a lot of books. You're a reader. Uh, and I do you know what you should read right? Like honestly, we should get off here is read James Nestor's, um, breath. It's, it's called, it's called breath, uh, the, the new science of a lost art. Amazing. Right. And that's the first book. That's the first book you want me to read. No, no, no. Actually, no, I actually know what. Read, read Michael A Singer's the untethered soul. It'll be untethered soul. And it's an easy read. not too big words for me here. It's a super easy read. You could even get it on an audio book and just like zone out to it. It's pretty meditative. And then if you really like that, you can read the Surrender Experiment. That's another book that he did. You're writing this down, Ryan, the surrender

experiment. Ryan's going to read this shit. We need help here. We need help. Hey, well, here's. But here's the other thing, man, like the other part of it too is, is, you know, I wasn't ready for for any of this until I was. And there are people telling me to, to read. and do and work on myself for years and years and years and I didn't want to. I tried and I didn't really want it. And like the moment that

and I'm not trying to speak from a place of ego, it's just like it helps me now. I don't know if it will continue to help me. I'm going to keep trying to put in work. But like, dude, it's so amazing when it clicks and you realize that you're so much, you're so much more than what you think you are

without being anything at all. It's just a really great feeling. Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, I think the reason that we don't work on ourselves right away when people are like, you read this and do this, you're like, no, no, no. Because deep down, in a weird way, at least for me, is like, I, I, maybe I still believe this, but I don't believe that I'm fixable in a way. Or I don't believe that it will work for me.

My mind is different. It's this naivete that is just, it's just. it's just not real it's like come on you even if you have a pre-existing condition let's say you have some mental illness they say that even if you have certain things you can control 40% 40 or 50% I mean it just depends on what the issue is but I just feel like you have to put the work in it's just not going to have it's like somebody expecting to be a movie star I'm just going to hang out by Starbucks and Spielberg's going to drive by and he's going to see me it just doesn't fucking happen it certainly doesn't happen to me it doesn't happen to many people so if you don't

don't actually put the work in what's going to happen is this nothing's going to happen is the answer nothing's going to happen and when you're saying that you know what you said you said something really interesting because i thought the same thing um and i've gone through a huge amount of of of introspection and what you said is like i don't think i'm fixable or like all anything like that man that that you should do some active self-forgiveness and like forgive yourself for buying into the misbelief that you're not fixable and like go deeper into why you feel that way and then clear it and move on because you might be holding on to that and it's probably holding you back from a true version of yourself that you could easily arrive at if you stepped off

of that plane of thinking that you were unfixable. If you just arrived at that. Also, dude, another thing that really helped me and it's changed my life, Jared doesn't want to hear a fuck about it, but it's really helpful is don't eat refined sugars and processed foods. Just do not consume them and think of it think of your body as a house like you wouldn't let just anybody into your house so don't let just ingredients that you don't know of in your body like give me an example give me example some of these products don't eat refined sugar uh like cane sugar read you know understand that there's more than what about stevia stevia is okay there's a lot there's a jury's out on artificial sweeteners but um you know there's one what is it called uh

there's one that's like pretty good but it's a laxative and so you'll you'll you need a diaper if you eat too much of it but um what's that one but i would just don't eat try and remove refined sugar from your diet okay in at all costs you can have honey you can have propolis um like bee pollen or like uh royal jelly if you need a sweet thing to wean you off fruit fruit is good but don't eat it like don't eat it after like a certain time like find out what you know, because it's a, you know, some fruits are pretty high glycemic food. So if you eat like a banana at night, you're going to spike your blood sugar. Oh, great.

But yeah, man, that'll help a lot with mood and anxiety. I noticed I gave up sugar in 2017 completely. And I was a pretty diabetic. I ate, I would be at, are you in L.A.? I'm in L.A., yeah. I would go to the Beverly Hills ATM, Sprinkles ATM, 2 in the morning and get, four cupcakes and eat them on the curbside, sitting on my motorcycle, like a crazy guy. Jesus.

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Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. You know, let me get into really quickly. I want to get into pretty little liars because that was your first big hit. That was like that was the thing that kind of put you on the on the radar, right? You know, how old were you when pretty little liars started? I was very young.

I must have been, it was 2009 I got the call. I remember getting it and I was so young. I just skateboarded to the audition. So you were 20. It was 20, yeah. You skateboarded to the audition. Did you have a fear at all? Did you go in there and not give a shit?

You know, it was the first, so it's interesting. It was like the first, I had gone on so many auditions for so many different things. And I was doing background work on another, like, kind of teen show. And I remember talking to one of the actors on it and being like, dude, do you have any pointers on, like, how to be an actor, like a working actor, like making money? Like, this doesn't seem realistic, like, because I was doing background work. You make it 60 bucks a day or something. just enough to like buy yourself a couple meals before you know and um he was just like he looked at me and he's like honestly just don't give a fuck and I'm like really that's all it takes

that's the key but what was interesting is I cared so much about I was going into acting classes and I still care so much it's interesting because I as much as I you're supposed to not you're supposed to like release yourself from the end result of your work. You're supposed to be present in it. I went in for that audition and I was just, I just had so much fun. I remember having so much fun in that audition.

And, you know, they tell you don't wear beanies. Don't cover your eyes. I went in with sunglasses and a beanie on. I did all the things you're not supposed to do. And there you go. That's the key. Did you, 11 years ago, was there Instagram?

We actually, our show is one of those it was probably the show that kicked off the social media frenzy around live tweeting around just social media in general where fans were essentially steering the shows arcs, character progression. I was only supposed to be in six episodes.

My character dies in the book series. But fans, at that time, social media had gotten, you know, was starting to get a fire under it. Fans were demanding that they didn't kill Tobias Kavanaugh, which was my character. They were just like, do not kill him. Well, what do you tell the author? What do you tell the guy who writes the book?

So, no, he dies. Sarah Shepard wrote a book series, and it's not to come back in full circle here, but her universe ran parallel until it didn't with Marlene King's version, who she developed and was the showrunner of PLL, along with Oliver Goldstick. And they married the two in certain ways and then divorce them in other ways. And one of the divorce factors was my character living and having a very strong relationship with one of the main characters that was just beautiful.

Were your parents blown away? I mean, are your parents the kind of parents that say, Kegan, we're so proud of you. You're so good. You're so sweet. We love you. They're that. Just adorable and painfully supportive. And I love them both.

My father passed away in 2012. He got to see a glimpse of the, of the, I remember like, you know, he was an actor himself. He came from, you know, Broadway and very Thespian. And, you know, he was in Star, he was in Star Trek and he would get fan mail all the time. He played like a small role in Star Trek 3. And he would get these crazy amazing fan letters and he loved it. It was like the happiest that he was when he was answering fan mail for, Star Trek. So when we were out one time, because my dad was, you know, my dad was going through some

stuff, but we were out spending time together and someone came up to me from Iraq and they're like, we watch your show there. And he was just like, what the hell across the world like that? That's amazing. And I was like, dude, that made me so happy. And it was like a couple months before he passed away and he was able to like see the the reality of how far reaching this this audience was that is beautiful and it actually puts a tear in my eye because i think about it's just it's just so nice when a father could be just love his son so much and want to see him be successful and be so you know just in awe of something like that where you know it just for me especially it just is it's a beautiful thing is he i don't know it was just the relationship i could just see it like when

you were just talking about it i just envisioned it i could see it and just this this guy who just cares about you and was like wow fall from the other side of the world how does he how do they recognize you from just and what that does is that creates this sort of feeling inside you i'm sure where it just like it just feels good that your dad feels good about what you're doing and what you've like it just that's that's such a fulfilling feeling is yeah it is very special and i have a very close relationship with my parents um and my dad you know it's weird it's like when he passed away i mean it was so weird because you know i i the one thing that we would do together is we'd fish together we'd fly fish together which is like in itself another art and a craft that i still

I've been doing it for 31 years, and I still suck at it, dude. I like to imagine myself that I'm a master angler at this point. And then I go out on the river and I'm like, I can't, I'm, what am I doing? Like, why can't I do this? My dad was a master angler. He was so good. He fished for, you know, what, 70 years or something. And so we would go and spend time like that together.

But after he died, like, I still go fishing. And I still almost feel like he's there. It's the weirdest. it's so strange um he is comforting i believe that i believe he is there it's a wonderful yeah yeah i it's a strange thing it's the one thing that i still can't quite understand i don't know if it's just my own imagination and but i well i you know what my best friend was my grandfather died a year and a half ago and he by far he was my best friend and uh i mean i couldn't stop videotaping him from the time I was a kid, I just thought he was the funniest, awesomest guy in the world.

And he always golfed. And I never liked golf. He would take me and I just never. And during this pandemic for the first time, I said, fuck, well, golf's really the only thing I could do. So I would, uh, I'd go golf and you can, you know, you're with one guy and you're separated and you're socially. It's a sport that you can play. You got your own ball. You're touching your own balls. That didn't sound right. But, you know, for me, I always feel like herbs with me. And I feel like there's some kind of awesome, it's just this feeling where I'm like, my grandfather always wanted me to go, fuck, why didn't I golf as much with him? And now I just feel like there's this, there's this essence. Like, Irv, here I go.

Could you help me out? Apparently not, because I'm sucking up. But there is a nice feeling. I don't know, whatever it is. It's just like you said, spirit. You said you're more spiritual. And, you know, it's, who's to say what's out there? Right.

I mean, it's, yeah, especially during quarantine, I really, I leaned into my fears. I was very afraid of the dark. I had a really irrational fear of the dark. Actually, it was doing a podcast right before quarantine. And that's why I have this mic and the whole, you know, set up is, you know, it's wonderful to have for Zooms. Yeah. My podcast immediately became dated and strange because I took a, I took a hiatus. from my season one from my podcast.

It was really great ratings, had millions of listeners, it was awesome. But then I realized that I was talking about aliens, I was talking about weird stuff, and I wanted to really gauge my audience into what I've learned that has made my life better. And one of the things was I was afraid of the dark and I was afraid of the forest

and I had a house that's in the forest that I was renovating for most of 2018. And over a quarantine, I moved into it, and overcame my fear of the dark in the forest. And now I'm, like, I just, I feel like a completely different person. And a lot of that had to do with breathing, oddly enough, and sleeping by, that's why I said James Nestor's is a great, James Nestor wrote a really great book about breath.

Because I was having these hypnipompic and hypnagogic hallucinations when I was, would wake up because I was breathing through my mouth, because I wasn't practicing breathing through my nose when I went to bed. it's so weird anyway but I've gone through all these things and I wish my father was around to see it I know he is technically by like the spiritual realm and calming and all that stuff but like there is something there is something to be said about like you know or her it's like it would be so nice to just have one day now and be like dude look look at this

look at this you know I think you'll have that one day yeah I mean that's the I mean people could laugh that and they could scar off, but like, why is it so incredulous to think that maybe you will see somebody after? These people who are such cynics who just talk, you know, they're just as bad as the extreme religious people, in my opinions. The people who just throw religion at you and you're going to die if you don't. They're just as worse as these, you could be atheists. I don't know if I believe the word atheist, but you could be whatever you want. I don't care what you are, but I don't like when they sort of scoff or make fun of people for believing that, you know, my father, I think is, you

know the the spirit of him is still is still with me you know and they can make fun i just i just never understood that and you know whatever helps you get through life and you know the biggest joke would be when when you finally pass or go to the next realm would be like ah see look there's dad right there you fuckers you know you nobody knows you don't know what's what's what's after you know life after that you don't know what nobody knows anything i mean now all of a sudden it's like the government has these things with the aliens and the UFOs and there's a Come on. It's just a matter of time.

We're going to probably see aliens within the next two years. They'd probably know. They've known these fucking aliens have been here for years. Trust me. I know. Does anybody go on Clubhouse anymore? For sure. There's some crazy stuff.

So is your podcast available again now? I'm working on it. You know, I'm revamping it. It's called Foreverland podcast. Foreverland. So you guys look for that once he's ready to bring that back. This is called shit talking with Kegan Allen. This is rapid fire.

So just really quick, Emily S, these are my patrons out there. They get to ask some questions. Emily asks, have you been doing, what have you been doing to stay sane during the pandemic? Yoga, meditation. I almost slam myself on the face. Painting. Painting. Nico, what's the best way you found to deal with stress?

Meditation. Painting. And play. And honestly, too, I would say meditation and playing a very calming video games. Lee Ann P, who are some of your personal heroes? Oh, man, my mom, my dad, my uncle, my aunt, my best friend Brett, my best friend Ryan, my best friend Brock. Wow. Jared.

Jared's amazing. Jen, Genevieve, Padalecki. They're just all really great. My manager, Conrad. Look at that. He has good people around you. Sad Guru. He's great.

Mike Mark Hyman. Sorry, I could keep going. your Oscar awards page one more if I'm forgetting anybody uh Sophie M I'm gonna just simplify this question did you audition for Walker did you get asked to audition or did you just get an offer yeah you know I auditioned and uh I am so happy that I got to meet Anna Fricky in the room she's the showrunner of Walker and get to meet Lindsay and and be able to do like probably one of the last network tests before this pandemic I mean I I'm a theatrical guy so I just man I loved the process not a lot not a lot of actors love that

process I loved that process with such a passion dude I had so much fun it was crazy that's great because it's also important like you know you guys out there you think you know sometimes actors get offers I've had offers where it's it's better when you can audition and you know what they like and you got the audition, you got the part because you know what they want and you go to set and you know when you get an offer, you go to set and you're like, I hope they like what I'm preparing here. And if not, you've got to make a complete 180 or whatever. So it's kind of frightening. And I lost a job because it was just like, oh, I was doing something that they just weren't, you know, it's because I didn't audition. It was a straight offer. And, you know,

that was tough. So Olga C, name one movie you'll never watch again. Oh, God. that's too hard isn't it i can name 50 just off shutter you know honestly can i tell you something really spooky i i got you know i along with you know doing all the self-help stuff i get into deep youtube video pits and just the worst like i used to think that there were movies that would never shock me there's like a whole list of movies that um are online that even just researching them just turn your stomach so just i just i was would say, I would say honestly, a movie that I would never watch again is cats, the musical. I didn't see it.

Don't. You know, this has been fantastic. I didn't know you. And, and yet, and now I want to know you more. Like, this is just, I should, we should do another, we should do another podcast and get into more stuff. I'm not kidding, because this is just the beginning. It feels like, okay, I need to do some reading. I need to do some work on myself.

and then I need to talk to Kiegan again. You know what I mean? No, man, I enjoyed it, man. I honestly appreciate you and I have such a reverence for your journey that you've been through. God, man, I mean, your Smallville is a total interesting, I mean, talk about picking apart,

not only just Warner Brothers making that show in general and like how crazy ahead of its time it was, but also just how each actor has, what it meant to each actor and what it did to each actor and what it did to each actor. It's such an interesting show. It took my life into a completely different direction. I was mostly playing, you know,

I was doing some comedic performances, and I think I just at the same time did sorority boys and like, you know, some, you know, I think I did, Sweet November was right before that. So I was doing some drama too. I did Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil. But when I really got Smallville, that jumped me into like, oh, serious actor guy.

And my friends would make fun of me. They're like, you, you're Lex Luthor, dude, you're such a goof. How are you? I'm like, because you can't be, if I was a serious guy, that character probably would have been the death of me. I have to, once they say cut, I'm laughing, farting, doing whatever to get out of that character. And it took time for like people like John Glover, Tony Award winner, who was my father, who's just amazing to understand.

And one day he goes, I know what you're doing now. I go, what am I doing? He goes, you're being Michael so you can then be Lex. And you're being Michael to annoy me off camera because Lex annoys Lionel. And he has this whole theory about this thing. And I'm like, I don't know. I think you're thinking too hard. I just don't like to be Lex when I'm not Lex.

But look, when do we watch Walker? It's on CW. What nights? On CW. And it streams on CW the next day. But I believe it's a Thursdays at 8.7 Central on the CW. But after season one finale, it goes to HBO Max, which is really cool. I could be saying all this wrong, but, I mean, just, yeah,

I'm really excited about it, man. It's a really cool show. And it's a real departure from what people thought it was going to be. And I think the more that it's the more that people dive deeper into the root of this story, the more it hits home with a really grounded and painful story about loss and dealing with loss, which, you know, is just ever present in Jared's character, ever present in the Walker family, ever present in all of the arms that reach out

from all of the different character storylines and plot points. And it's truly a remarkable show to work on and a dream job for sure. And weren't the ratings like for the premiere episode, like just unbelievable. I heard that we did really well. And I was so happy to hear it because, Obviously, like, I want to keep working on this.

I want to keep this. I want to get to know Liam better. But I also am so excited that people are enjoying the story and seeing it from so many different perspectives and holding on to different. I mean, everything about it is just so fun to work on, man. I'm like such a fan of the show. I watch it, which is so not like me. I mean, I'm just now starting to rewatch some,

like there's been a resurgence of pretty little liars stuff. you know, where you could stream it. And I've been kind of rewatching it and being like, oh my God, I don't remember any of this. I don't remember anything about this. So it's been fun to, you know, kind of sort of did my toe into that.

But I watch Walker and I'm, I'm a fan of the show as well as a awesome as an actor on it. Well, hey, guys, check out Walker. It's Thursday nights on the CW. And I mean, look, this guy's, Kagan, this has been a real treat. Again, you know, sometimes you don't know your guests.

You don't know where things are going, and you're like, oh, okay. But then I just immediately was like, wait a minute, this guy is really interesting. He's got a story and I love the relationship with your parents and the love they gave you and that you did go through a lot of shit that you were raised in Hollywood, but you turned out to be a great guy. And you've done the work and you're still doing the work. And I really appreciate you sharing your story with us. Thanks, man. You're a mensch.

I appreciate you too. You too. Thanks for allowing me to be inside of you. And we'll talk again. I was waiting for that Another good conversation with someone I didn't know And I always like that meeting someone for the first time And then getting to know them in the brief time that we have together

So thank you Keegan Allen I hope you guys enjoyed the podcast please subscribe You can subscribe on YouTube and Apple, Stitcher, Spotify, all that Write a review and our handles are at Inside of You Pod on the Twitter at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook. And I really appreciate your support. Go to the Inside You store if you want the new merch code Summer Rosie 10 and a bunch of great stuff.

And also if you can go to sunspin.com if you want any sunspin stuff, it's a sunspin summer 10 for 10% off. So I'll start out with this lovely letter from Paul. Hey, my name's Paul. I'm a huge fan of yours. And of course, Smallville, now your podcast. I'm 42 years old, a former Marine, and that's where I want to thank you. I served in the Marines for three and a half years, been to Iraq, Afghanistan, where I blew out my knee and had to leave service. I had PTSD and had to learn how to cope with it. But I started listening to your podcast in the beginning of the year, listening to all the movie stars, et cetera, having mental health issues, stress and anxiety and how you go through this as well, help me out. It relaxes me to listen to how your guests deal with it. I like how you tell your, you're, how your life goes and all those stories i could tell you that you do help people with your podcast and that you are a very funny and good person please keep doing it thank you really you might have saved a life or two a fan named paul well paul that means the world to me and that's why i wanted to read your letter um you know i do what i can i didn't i didn't think i was doing anything

with this podcast other than just talking to people. And it wasn't until I started getting letters and comments or people came up to me at conventions that I started realizing, wait a minute, the podcast is helping these people. Why is this? How am I helping anybody? And I think just, you know, trying to be honest and trying to, you know, get things out of my guests that help all of us. Maybe it's selfish.

Maybe I just try to get something from the guests for myself. And in return, it actually goes to everybody out there. but I'm glad it helps you and I'll keep doing it as long as I can and thank you Paul. Thank you for the letter. If you want to join Patreon, join the wonderful family, the community that keeps getting bigger and more loving and you won't really, you don't really know what it's about until you join. So I recommend it. I'll shoot you a message when you join. Just go to patreon.com slash incite you, P-A-T-R-E-O-N.

I love all my patrons and right now I'm going to read their names. So here we go. All right. Nancy D. Mary B. Leah S. Tricia F. Sarah V. Little Lisa, Uquico, Jill E. Brian H. Lauren, G. Nico P. Lauren H. Robin S. Jerry W. Robert B. Robert B. Jason B. confused with. Kristen Kruke. Amelia O. Allison L. Lucas Amaraj. C. Joshua D. Emily S. Cjp. Samantha M. Jennifer N. Jackie P. Stacey L. Carly H. Carly S. Jan S. Jamal F. Janette. Tav of the 272. Not to be confused with. Kristen crook. Ashley. You bastard.

I think Tabith of 272 just six around because she likes to hear that. Oh, all right. Tabith, 273. I think so. All right, we'll just feed that. We'll just feed it every month. Ashley Ryan, Kimberly, Mike E. Eldon Supremo, 99 more. Ramira, San Diego M. Sarah F. Chad, W. L.M.P., Ray A.

Maya P. Maddie S. Kendrick F. Ashley E. Shannon D. Matt W. Belinda and Kevin V. James R. Chris H. Dave H. Samantha. S. Spider-Man. Shila. G Ray H. Tabitha T, Tom, and Suzanne B. Lilliana A. Michelle K. Marcus W. H. B., Marcos, W. Hanna B., Michael B., T., Michael S., Andrew T., Betsy D., Claire M., Liz J. Laura L., Chad L., Chelle, Nathan S., Meg K., Jinnel P., Trap L, Dan, Dan, Diane R. A Jedda. Lorraine G. Corey M., Veronica K., Big Stevie W. Kendall T. Carol D., Sandy B. Angel. Michael M. Eric C. Riann. C. Stephen M. Corey K. Super Sam. Emily C. Sherry S. Colman G. David C. Michelle A. Matt W. Liz L. Jeremy C. Andy T. Cody R. and Chris. E. Those are the lovely patrons. You could join Patreon.com slash inside of you. I hope you enjoyed this podcast and please continue listening. I'm going to put on my smaller glasses now so I don't look completely crazy. But I wonder if like ever after we're done recording a podcast, maybe not today, but like right when we're done recording it while things are converting we just go up the street a little 10 minute there and back take a walk interesting maybe we'll do it you do live in the Hollywood Hills of California yes Michael Rosam I'm here from the Hollywood Hills in California and Ryan Taylor's from the Hollywood Hills California give a little wave to the camera

thank you for for joining me again I love doing this and thank you for allowing to be inside of each and every one of you I hope you have a glorious week be healthy do something good for yourself try to love yourself a little bit i'm trying to do that and uh all right i think that's it football season is here oh man believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros one of the most interesting quarterback rooms to college michigan is set at eight and a half wins to fantasy if you feel that way why didn't you trade them become a better fan and listen to the football podcasts from Believe. Just search Believe.

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