Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - WIL WHEATON: Protecting Your Younger Self, Star Trek Validation & Giving Breaks With ‘Storytime’

Episode Date: April 22, 2025

Wil Wheaton (Star Trek, The Big Bang Theory) joins us again this week to follow up our first conversation about his trauma recovery, being a survivor of child abuse and isolation from his family. Wil talks about the experience of re-traumatizing himself to expose what still needs to be worked on while sharing the tactics he uses to prioritize his current well being by having convos with his past self. We also talk about the validation and support he receives from his Star Trek family, how he’s shining a light on new talent with ‘It's Storytime,’ and the idea of trying to feel normal. Thank you to our sponsors: 🍓 Strawberry: https://strawberry.me/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside 👕 Quince: https://quince.com/inside ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 📞 Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/insideofyou __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and get enough points for a free donut, drink, or timbits. With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more, see the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum ryan's having a seat as we talk

yep having a little chat good to see ryan hello good to see i didn't sleep well last night so if i look like merle haggard merle haggard he was a country singer just haggard yeah yeah yeah yeah being me not not not not not just tired just tired that it just barely we had to do a bunch of talkville stuff and you know all that stuff hey thanks for listening to the show appreciate you i'm glad you're here Thanks for taking the time and choosing this podcast because there's so many freaking podcasts. But we've been doing this a long time. Look, if you want to support the podcast, if you're here for Will Wheaton, thank you.

If you like the interview, all I ask is subscribe. If you like it, say, hey, I like the interview, man. Good job. And subscribe and follow us. And I'd appreciate it. You also have a chance of being on the podcast. If you join Patreon, patreon. Patreon.com slash inside of you.

And there's a new tier. And it's called How Deep Is Your Love? of tier. And so a few people will come on and talk about mental health or whatever at the end of an episode and have them on for a few minutes and say thank you for being a patron. There's also many other perks, I guess, send boxes and sign stuff. And so just go to Patreon, p-a-t-r-o-n.com slash inside of you. Check it out and see if you want to become a patron today and support the podcast. I always say it's like a streamer. It's like if you are watching the show constantly And you know, why not get back?

Go to my Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum and my link tree. Link tree? It tells you everything I'm doing. Camios and all the conventions I'm going to doing Smallville nights with Tom. We have a cruise, the Smallville cruise. Go to cruisville.com. You have to get tickets. It's going to be a blast.

A lot of the cast are coming on this cruise. So get tickets now. It's June 15th to the 22nd. And we're going all around. Bahamas, Honduras, Coco Pei, a co-cote. I don't know.

Don't ask me, but it's going to be amazing. We're doing a lot of stuff on the ship. You know, a lot of excursions. You can take excursions and swim with pigs with me. You could do karaoke with me, Smallville nights and a bunch of other stuff.

Also, the inside of you online store, folks, if you want autograph pilot episodes of Smallville or Lexmas scripts or ship keys or tumblers or there's, uh the funcos which you can't hardly get and some people are they sign you know they have my autograph and i'm not sure i signed all these but they're for sale for like they're selling them for a lot but you can get them and know that they're signed by me for well a lot less um and uh lunchboxes signed by me and tom small the lunch boxes and uh yeah a lot of other stuff and uh last but not least

have to just uh give you this is the rosy's puppy fresh breath here trying to you know get this product going ryan rosy's puppy fresh breath just a capful in your dog's water odorless tasteless and your dog's breath will be great i'm on the back here picture of me no brushing just add to your dog's water and a lot of people are loving it so thank you for supporting rosy's puppy fresh breath and uh we got a great episode will wheaton is here again and um he's got this new idea this new show where he narrates um uh people's literary works. And the way he does it is pretty freaking cool. And I'll let him explain it. But we talk about so much. We talk about dysfunction and mental health. And we get deep, as always. I didn't know

where else this would go since the last episode, but it gets even better. And I appreciate him for being so open and honest. Always. He's such a great guest, such a great guy. I loved having him over. And we're going to get a drink or something. I don't drink, but we could have a, you know, Maybe a shake. Maybe we could have a shake, Ryan. Go to the malt shop. Yeah, go to the malt shop, have a shake. A shake for guide seeks.

We could do that. Thanks for being here. Again, thank you. I appreciate it. Let's get into this. Let's get inside of Will Wheaton. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum.

Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. We're starting the podcast today. Will is trying to convince me to watch. You're not trying to convince me. Absolutely not. I think to watch Severance. Did you ever did you watch the wire? I tried for the first two episodes. People say you need to get through the first three and then you're okay. Is that true? I don't remember what I remember about the wire is that I was on location in Vancouver. It was pouring rain as it does. And I was at the Sutton. And I had nothing to do. I had nothing to watch on a day off. So I walked down about two blocks to the HMV and went to that section of TV, DVD sets. This is like before you could do this online. And I walked in and you know, just so many people had just been all up in my shit about go watch

the wire, watch the wire. And I thought, okay, I'll watch. I'll give it a try. And I went back to the, to the Sutton and I put it in the DVD player. And like literally nine hours later I got up. I couldn't stop watching it. I was just capped. captivated by it. The reason I ask you if you watched it is it is one of those shows like Friday Night Lights, which I understand. I love Friday Night Lights. Okay. I never watched it because I got so exhausted by every dude I know going, you haven't watched it. You've got to watch it. What do you mean? We all know that guy who like will not shut up about how great the wire is. And after a while, I don't. Yeah, yeah. I don't care. I don't care that. Just leave me alone about it. That's what

happens. It's like, oh, you have to watch us. You have to watch this. I'm like, I don't have to watch. Shit. Yeah. Well, then it'll make that decision. And then it becomes like, are you going to test me? Like, am I going to come back to you? Yeah. What would you think about that? What do you think that means? Did I like it the right way? I don't know. I mean, did I, I believe that you would like severance. Uh, uh, but I tell everybody if you're not like really on board, if you're not, wow, I want to know what happens at the end of the first episode. I, who has time? Why do you want to invest? Why do you want to invest? three episodes in a show, which is ridiculous, you're like, why do you want to spend three hours on a thing when it might not ever pay off? Because your hope, you know, usually because you're too young to have experienced lost in real time. Like I just watch a series Paradise. Okay. And everyone's telling me to watch it. So I watch it. The first episode is great. And then a lot of the episodes, it's not that they're bad, but it's, it becomes sort of network television feel and then doesn't that break your heart it does and I'm like oh cheesy or I don't oh it's a procedural here we go I mean look uh the acting's for the most part great but uh episode seven

was one of the best episodes you'll ever see it's fantastic yeah and then the finale is back to kind of bullshit yeah and then they're like oh and it looks like there's going to be another season I'm like did you watch it it just feels like how are they going to get another who would want to watch another season of this. Yeah. Like it was good and I'm, you know, I'm glad I watched it, but I don't want to do another season. They try to stretch it out.

One show I will say, then we'll get into this. Yeah. Have you seen Dark? No, I keep seeing, it keeps coming across my dashboard on, on Netflix. I promise you, you can, you can tell the world I'm an asshole. And I'll, and I'll agree with you. Yeah. Dark is probably the first season is probably one of the best seasons of television in history.

Yeah, all the way from the, from the get go you yeah love it your mind you're very cerebral you're very you know you love sci-fi you love uh clever stories you like going down wormholes you like all this stuff uh with your mind i think you will just eat it up okay and it's not something that everyone has seen it's sort of like most it's a it's still like a little it's i wouldn't say that it's under the radar it's just like sort of like it blips on the radar but there's something else next to it that grabs the attention of the average person instead. So they go after whatever that happens to be. And you have to watch it in German and subtitled. Yeah. I don't like I can't do that. I can't like watch something in a different like, you know, speaking English when they're speaking German. It just takes me out of it. Have you ever met someone from a non-English speaking country who watched your work in their native language? A lot. So I was in Germany and I met some people who had watched Star Trek the next generation in the Germandum. And, When I was a kid, I never understood why German fans in particular were very thumbs down on Wesley Crusher.

Like, they really hated him. And I was like, I do not understand this. It makes no sense at all until I went to Germany for a con, like 15 years ago. Oh, boy. And I heard the voice. There was a direction choice made at some point to make him a whiny. really annoying pay attention to me

why is it anybody why am I doing that like basically like they just they made the choice that was made was to make he was so unlikable like I hated that character

and it was weird because that's not that character is and it supported my conviction that when we when something is created in another language always why

watch it with subtitles. Yes. Because there's so much that's important. Oh, my gosh. I can imagine, you know, a lot of people, you know, in Brazil will say, you know, and I saw it once. I saw me with a Portuguese accent or something. Yeah. Or seeing it, you know, on Mexican TV. And it's just like, you know, um, be able to let's let that Clark. And I was, whatever. And I was like, this is kind of cool. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I don't know how good the acting is, you know, in terms of what they are seeing and what they perceive is good. Yeah. So you're only, that's the thing you can only cover your own ass. Right.

Once it gets to the other countries, it's sort of like, well, I hope they chose the right direction. Yeah. So that's how you found out. You're like, yeah. Well, then it made all kinds of sense to me. And for that entire con, so many people were coming to introduce themselves to me and like, you know, getting picture signed and things like that. And I don't know, probably slightly. more than half. Like, I always thought I hated Wesley and it turns out that I don't. Like,

that's so weird. Oh, my gosh. That's so strange. It's like you want to talk to that casting director and go, hey, I just want to know. Or the direction. Yeah. Man. All right. So, look, since we talked last time, a lot's happened. It's been a couple years. Yeah. But first of all, how are you doing? I'm pretty good. I mean, you know, the world. I don't know if you've looked at the world lately. I tend to look at the world. I try to destroy. I try to destroy. I try to destroy. And, and never talk about the world when I'm in here. Yeah. It's sort of my breakaway.

But like, yes, I see things happening. Yeah. That are just shoved in your face that you can't, can't look away. Yeah. And it's disheartening. And, uh, you know, you just try to, uh, I mean, how do you deal with it? Um, I have, I've been, the way that I can honestly answer that question is existentially and in a large, gigantic global sense, terrible, everything's terrible.

But in the immediate, this side of my event horizon, things are really good. My family is doing really well. You have two kids. I have two kids. How old are they? 33 and 35. 33. You look 33 and 35.

I know. Dude, I turned 53 in July. Oh. So you're exactly, your birthday is July 29th. Yeah. So you're a year and 18 days older than me. No shit. No.

Uh, you're less than a year older. I'm July 11th, so you're less than a year. Oh, you're 18 days less in a year than I. Yeah. Okay. So how do you feel about that? How does that make you feel when you turn 53? Is it kind of shocking or you just don't care anymore?

I have been so consistently surprised by the moments where I don't feel that I'm a middle-aged weirdo and the moments where I feel like, gosh, I'm really, like, I'm really getting older. I feel that when like my body just asserts, I've been around for a really long. time and you have not exercised me as much as I told you you needed to. So that's a whole thing that kind of sucks. Yeah. And anytime I'm around a someone in their 20s and I'm just so curious, I just want to know like, what do you care about? What is what what drives your world? Like I know it was important to me in the 90s. What's important to you now? And most of the time I feel like I am speaking to someone from another planet because i have no idea i don't understand the culture i don't

the the the um and and uh the values are can are confusing it just feels like every day there's something new that you're like oh that's the thing now yeah or that's what we're doing or that's my understanding is that like youth culture moves faster than it ever did and and i was reading something about uh for kids and that are like in school right now the thing that's hilarious during the first period of school is just old news and dumb by the time lunch rolls around. And they're like, get off of it. Now we're on to the fifth meme iteration of that thing. I'm just like, God, I cannot keep up with that. But generally, I'm doing well, you know, since I was last here, when I wrote Still Just a Geek, I was looking for some catharsis, you know?

Oh, I love that. That's awesome. It's either this bookshelf or that bookshelf. Yeah. Oh, well, I'm really honored that it's still being that I love. of that. Thank you. Yes, of course. I was hopeful for a catharsis, right? I was hopeful for some understanding and I boy, did I not find that. All I did was really retramatized myself and reveal to myself all kinds of stuff I had not dealt with. All kinds of stuff I needed to reprocess and work through and so much trauma that I need to heal. Really? After all the trauma after all the the work on yourself after it was something that after you wrote that you felt sort of like wait a minute i'm going backwards yeah i had well i was forced to be honest

i had to be honest with the reader and that forced me to be honest with myself and in pursuit of that veracity i had to confront things that i had always overlooked or gone around or pushed to the side to be dealt with later. Yeah. And it's been a couple of years since that, since it came out. And when I was finishing up press, I, there was a day where I just realized my body is disregulated. I'm in this real major fighter flight all the time.

I know how that is. And I need to prioritize my mental health. I need to prioritize getting better. I wish more people would do that. I wish I would do that more, you know, most of the time. I think that we always put our mental health to the side a little bit. And we're like, oh, that's okay. I could deal with this.

And I'm just going to keep going, keep going, keep going. And you can feel it. You can actually feel it. Physiologically. Yeah. Your body, the anxiousness, the, you're ahead of yourself. What is causing that? And we ignore that.

That's a fight reflex, right? So like, we're fighting against allowing those emotions to land on us and to experience them. And what I ended up doing was looking at like what the year in front of me looked like and what like I'm like what does my future look like. What do my commitments look like? What's my time look like? And I had the privilege to center and prioritize just taking care of myself and my mental health. Like I kind of made it my job. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money.

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this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside-of-you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. I've been doing EMDR therapy consistently. I did EMDR. It blew me away. It has been so healing and so remarkable

that there have been moments where it's indistinguish. from magic, and I have said to my therapist, so this is weird. I don't, I cannot believe that I'm able to talk about this thing without freaking out, but I am and I can let, I can work through this stuff, and now it doesn't sit on me anymore. They say EMDR, it's like if, uh, one of your problems, something, you know, there's a lot of trees in the forest, right? Yes. This is the analogy she said it's almost like getting through part of that trauma you're knocking down that tree and in the process some of those other trees kind of fall down with that tree when they go down and it doesn't eliminate everything but those things that are really traumatic and really have caused you

pain those things don't affect you as much after you complete EMDR or work through it and it's true I had a situation where this memory that I didn't, I didn't think was that pertinent. I was sitting there and she was like, oh, yeah, we're not going to do it today. I don't think you're ready. I don't, you know, whatever. I started talking. I just, I just said this one thing. I go, oh, yeah.

And I remember when this happened, blah, blah, blah. It's like, go, don't do that. Yeah. And she's like, okay, I think we're ready. Let's stay on that. I go, what? I was just joking. I go, yeah, she goes, I'd like to get into that.

Yeah. Something that I just kind of threw away and thought, oh, this is funny, right? It's funny, it's me guarding myself and pretending it's okay. Yeah. And I went from, I went to such a dark place and so emotional that I was almost embarrassed. Yeah, I get that. I've never cried that hard in my life. And I, it came up and it just, I was lost in it.

And but after that day, I noticed, even to now, When I think about that moment, I know it happened. It's there. But it doesn't affect me anymore the way it did. Is that how you felt? Yeah. So a lot of my work has been trauma recovery. I'm sure we talked about it when I was here before.

I am a survivor of child abuse and child exploitation. And I lived my entire childhood absolutely terrified, terrified and alone, isolated in my house, not allowed into my family. treated like absolute shit by my father. It was horrible, all of it. And I have worked really hard for a couple of years to reprocess all of that. And I've been using a really interesting therapy technique called the Internal Family Systems model. And the idea is that our bodies and our minds create like pieces of the personality to do different things for us when we are responding to trauma. And you get kind of like different parts. of your personality and the way that I've been doing this therapy is to interact with

these different parts and talk to them and understand like okay this part of me is that little kid who's so scared who just doesn't know what's coming and is and is so terrified and I remember being that kid and a lot of the work that I can do with EMDR and using this particular model and I'm oversimplifying it is to get into conversation with that kid and help that kid understand. Do you talk to yourself? Uh-huh. And help that kid understand that he's safe and he's mean and we grew up. And there's, you know, there's just things that happen. And it's weird. And I know that this sounds crazy. But there are times where I'll be talking to my younger self, you know, and I'll be out doing something. And the younger self will pipe up and be like, I remember a thing.

And I'm like, okay, go ahead. Let me hear what it is. And I listen to it. And I, and it's so weird. silly my therapist at our last session. It feels silly, but it makes a lot of sense to me that I'm in conversation with myself and I say to my younger self, sweetheart, I'm so sorry you're going through that. I went through that too. I remember when I went through that and I know how much it hurts and I know how scary it is. And if you can hear me and if you can trust me, I promise you that it gets better and I promise you, you are safe. And here's how I know these things. And I'm massively oversimplifying it. No. And it does. But, you know, I get it. I'm getting what you're saying because I can almost imagine, you know, myself just. And I've, I guess I've talked to

myself. I definitely talk to myself. But what I'm thinking is, do you also say things like, I know what you're thinking right now? And that's not true. That's not true. How could you be this way and feel this way. Here's the reasons why you're wrong. Yeah. And I write myself notes. I'm like, dear will, you have forgotten that you're loved and you're safe and that you matter. Wow.

I am reminding you because you forget all the time. I love you. That's awesome. Signed you from the past. Then I put it out there for me. And every now and then I come across that and I'm like, wow, I really needed that. I'm glad that I did that for myself. Like little notes.

Little notes and things. I think that's awesome. You know, I don't, it's really easy for people, I think, to fall into this sort of like toxic positivity of just like, well, I just do this little trick. There's nothing tricky about it. And there's a line there, you know, where, like, I feel like it becomes avoidance. And then there's a, there's, but there's a different track where it really becomes, like, really engaging in just a way that that is understandable and accessible to each, you know, each person's journey is different. each person's experience is different yeah do you do uh you medicate yeah so i yep so i i use i take an antidepressant every day um and uh and i'm i'm i'm really grateful for it um i'm a big believer in

medication for for some people in in general but i'm also a huge believer in medication for for mental health like as i have said for years and years and years if you have a chronic illness you would go to the doctor and get some medication to like take care of that right genetically i have high cholesterol there's nothing i can do about it i've tried so hard for years i even went so far as to literally dump everything i like out of my diet and lifestyle didn't work so i take a statin three times a week right no one listening to this is like oh that's weird no one not a single person would go huh what right if anything at all they would say oh well you're kind of young for that or uh that's something you look healthy i don't know why you would do that

i don't understand why there would be a different response to mental health to to to like i take what whatever and i i deliberately don't talk about which medication i take because i don't want to influence other people to think oh that's the one i want because they're very different i've said i've said it but i've also said i went through a lot of them that didn't work yes or that one worked but this one may not work for you and you might need to get through five or six to get to that one it was a painful process and for me um you know i understand that exercise certainly helps with mental health sure and communication and therapy and all these things that you can do and some people say well you don't need there you don't need medication you know everyone is different everyone is wired

differently and for me this is the first thing that has made me uh feel at least what i think normal is yeah and um that's so interesting right like i don't know what normal is i don't know I mean, I know what it. I kind of know what it looks like. And I've read about it. Do you ever like look at any friends while they're talking and in the past or whatever and just look at them? And they don't know you're thinking this, but you're going, I wish I was as normal as you. I wish I didn't freak out about things like you. I wish that I had this upbringing like you. I wish that almost envious of people. Oh, dude, one of my friends has the most amazing parents. And he loves them so much. And they love him back. so hard and it's so incredible and every time i just think god i wonder what that's like i wonder what it's like to feel safe and feel seen and feel worthy and feel like you're enough like i've had to look for that myself and to to dovetail that on the talk of medication um i i have complex trauma

and as a consequence of my complex trauma my brain has changed. And it does not process neurochemicals the way a non-traumatized brain would. So I take medication to help regulate that, just to help the chemicals in my brain that everybody has just be a bit more even and work out a little more like efficiently. And I heard someone once say, if your brain isn't making the chemicals it needs, store-bought chemicals are entirely acceptable as an alternative. I want to hear what you use, not now, but maybe after, you don't tell me. I'm just curious. But yeah, I've done that too.

I've had a lot of friends where I'm like, you know, I've had friends that, you know, are really poor and didn't have a lot growing up. And, but a lot of times I would feel like I would switch with them in a second because I would see that how much love there was in their family and how much attention they got or respect or listening to their kids or things. And I would think those things. I used to spend the night at different friends' houses and I didn't want to leave. I would be at my friend David Edelman's for a week.

And his mother would say, does your mother care that you're here still? Yeah. And she goes, no, she's fine. Yeah. She won't. She's fine with it. My friend Danny Cutter, I didn't want to leave his house. My friend Nate Shepard, I didn't want to leave his house.

My friend Emil Camacho, I didn't want to leave his house. Yeah. You know, and when you grow growing up, you don't think, a lot of times you start blaming yourself for all these things and why you're thinking this and it's not. Of course. It's not. It's, you know, and then it's, that's why I feel like therapy is so important and why communication is and watching documentaries and understanding the brain and understanding childhood trauma and this and that. Because then you could say, then you could start getting into that inner child thing and saying, hey, it's okay. that somebody listening to this needs to hear this you are worthy you deserve to be happy you deserve to live

a full and satisfying life million percent it is absolutely okay to go ask somebody for help there's nothing wrong with you you're not broken you're not never going to get well it's a thing that I promise you you are not the first and you are not the last person to go through this and you absolutely can pick up that phone call make you know pick up the phone make the call to talk to somebody 100 percent I think people are you know I think that was a big stigma and I think that's going the way in a lot of ways yeah it's all right that's me knocking it's your phone I don't give a shit yeah who cares about my phone um that's not the worst it's happened to it today on the way here today it fit I uh I was going up to on ramp on the freeway and I I jammed it into the cup holder. and the phone was like, I'm going to fly out of the cup holder and I'm going to go underneath the passenger seat into that place where you can't reach you. It always does that.

It knows how to piss you off. You ever think when something falls, you go, how the fuck did it get there? If you're going to smuggle things around, honestly, just let them fall under the seat. No one can ever grab them. They just run away from you while you try to pick up. I think they have a mind of their own.

I was taking my nightly pills before I go to bed and I dropped one down and I put my hand down there And I go, how is it not within a foot or two feet of my hand? Isn't it crazy how far away those things can bounce? It's somehow rolled to the fucking wall. Yeah. And now it's got lint and shit on it, dog hair. Yeah.

I'm like, what the? You did like a Mario World double jump. What the hell? Find my pill. Yeah. No, I'm glad you said that. I'm glad you said that because a lot of people need to hear it. And a lot of people are like, what if I don't like my therapist?

You change your therapist. You change your therapist. It's very easy. You don't have to, especially with the online stuff because better helps the sponsor. And it's like they make it easier for you. the people especially that have like i don't know am i going to like this just just try it yeah just try talking i just think that you know if i didn't let things out like you know this morning i was talking to my girlfriend and i just started talking about my grandpa yeah and she's a great listener

and um i just was thinking about him and it brought up things about me and my life and it was almost like i needed to talk about it um but now i marked my calendar when i talked to my therapist next because I really want to get you know inside more I want to inside inside but um no I appreciate you've always been an advocate for for mental health and and all that and I you know I think it's amazing um do you ever feel like and we're going to get into it's story time with Will Wheaton because I'm very excited about this I'm excited too yeah March 26 it's launching I know I can't believe it but did you ever go through a phase where you know as you're going through this process of um not having any relationship with your family yeah and really just

drawing a line and that's the pat that's done i'm not having anything to do with that did you ever feel and i think we talked about this a little but did you ever feel like because i get i feel like when for me it's i've always been guilted yeah it's it's your blood it's your mother it's your father it's your this it's your that and i'm just this sap and i and i and i just like oh well you've been best friends with this person what you know and it's almost like it's making me feel bad about myself like maybe and that's bringing back childhood stuff did you ever feel like feel have those feelings absolutely in my family i have one relative who loved me unconditionally who always supported me who who was always there who who made me feel

like I mattered and made me feel safe. And that was my Aunt Val. And my mother is just a deeply manipulative person. And one of the times my dad was super cruel and abusive to me. And I stood up for myself. He went off on a big pout about it. He had a big temper tantrum about it. And my mom sort of cornered me later that day or maybe the next day and said and accused me of like hurting the family right and then said you know aunt bell always said nothing's more important than family and at that moment I realized my mom is using the love that I have for my great aunt who has been gone for too long to try and control me and try to she's weapon the love I have for my for my for my great and the one person the one the only person and I was like how

dare you and I was I was I was offended by that in a way that all the other shit they did didn't offend me and I just remembered that when I was you know I tried to I didn't want to walk away from my family I wanted to heal my family and I tried so I tried so hard a letter I tried so I wrote a letter. I wrote lots of letters. And I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, and I, it just, it just wasn't ever going to happen because that they are people for whom that will never, ever happen. They're not wired that way. I, and I have said that, like, it's, God, it sucks to not have parents. It really hurts to not be part of a family, but it hurts more to subject myself to the whims of the people. who are choosing not to be loving parents, but who chose to be an abuser in the case of my dad and someone who just used me to have things in the case of my mom, in spite of all of that. There were moments where I wanted to call them, to tell them about things when my book came out, which tells my whole story that, like, you know, tells all about how awful they were. Still, I was like, I got to call my mom

when I was getting ready to do this podcast and when we you know we we put out our announcement and and the the response was so like so overwhelming and so positive and so much the volume of people was so much greater than I anticipated the instinct is call the parents and tell them and it's still there and I'm like but no so when that's really interesting by the way that makes me think a lot. I mean, I think like it doesn't mean that you have forgotten or you have forgiven or you hate them or yeah, whatever it is. It doesn't matter what it doesn't matter what that is. That is a supernatural impulse. Everyone has parents. Every child has a mom and a dad. And like you want to share that with them. And I like I've just accepted that that, you know,

When I have that impulse, call your wife. I text my Star Trek family. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses this. So many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right?

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It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Bombus makes the most comfortable socks, underwear, and T-shirts. Warning, bombas are so absurdly comfortable you may throw out all your other clothes. Sorry, do we legally have to say that?

No, this is just how I talk, and I really love my bombas. They do feel that good, and they do good, too. One item purchased equals one item donated. To feel good and do good, go to bombus.com and use code audio for 20% off your first purchase. That's BOMBAS.com and use code audio at checkout. Trek family. Gates? I text Gates and Frakes and Marina and Brent and Patrick and Michael and LeVar. Yesterday morning. That's nice. So yesterday morning before we announced, I texted LeVar because this doesn't exist without him. I texted him and I said, I just want you to know that we're announcing today.

And I'm excited and kind of nervous. But this wouldn't exist. without you this wouldn't exist if you hadn't believed in me if you hadn't said i want you to do this this wouldn't exist if you hadn't said how can i help and i said i just want you to know that if if this goes the way i really hope it does it could be the next thing in my life right this could be my this could be my gig for a while this is something that i could do and and and it feels like it could matter to people and um i just want to thank you for being there for me that's awesome when you didn't know that you were and i could see a happy feeling when you're talking about this levar called me last night and i did totally unexpectedly and told me how

proud of me he was what yeah and he was just like he said he said you're i couldn't just text you i had to hear your voice and i could see you getting emotional now well and you know the thing is like twice in my life i have felt what i imagine it is like when your parents love you and our prove of you once was when frakes was on ready room and he told me how proud of me he was at how much he loved the show and and just i don't know he was curious about me and about what i did and how i did is that weird to have that feeling and then last night i it felt that way from from lavar did you get emotional last night yeah yeah but it just when i got off the phone i said i was I was sitting out in my game room playing Fallout 76, which has consumed my life.

And I set the phone down and I just put my arms around myself and I just sat there. And I was like, remember what this feels like. Wow. Sit in this. Enjoy this. Feel this in your body. You know, you have these feelings in your heart and in your arms feel weird. and like just there's a feeling of joy and acceptance and and i and i and i and i just i was like this is the closest you're ever going to get buddy isn't that so like love love

that isn't it see that just tells you how important it is it's so easy just to love your kids to unconditionally love your kids yeah the moment that you've been waiting for your whole life one or two moments yeah happened from someone who wasn't you your mother or father yeah um i remember my grandfather sent me a letter and it was just like and he had this great handwriting irv he was just such a and he just said i just want you to know how how proud we are of you how much we love you and it really doesn't matter what you do mike we just want to see you happy that's incredible and this and i kept it and that's it's moments like that that you go it just feels so good there's nothing that can replace that feeling

of unconditional love that is visceral and um i'm glad you got that bravo lavar too for for the for the reaching out because a lot of times you know you'll text hey congrats it's awesome it's or and that's fine that's like it's nice and our face time or a facebook or a tweet yeah uh but But, like, actually someone taking the time to say, I'm going to call. I'm going to actually pick up the phone and I want you to hear this. This is important. And by the way, you know, you do have a family. You have that family and you have your own family.

Yeah. So, you know, you have plenty of people to call now. Yeah. So that shouldn't be a problem. But it's, yeah, I understand that feeling of like, you know, you only get one of these. You only get one of this. It's hard because sometimes in your family, whether it's your brothers or sisters or aunts or there's people that you just don't really like there's it's it's okay and i keep telling myself it's okay

talk to me now about it's story time with will we how did this how did you come up with this a couple of years ago now it was a long time ago one of my oldest friends who i've known since i was a freshman in high school uh texted me that a story he had written had been bought by magazine he's been writing since we were kids. And it's not his primary profession, but it is his passion. And he's a great storyteller and a talented writer and just never really found the place that would that would say yes. And this place said yes. And I was so excited for him. I grabbed the story immediately. I read it. And it's a great story. And I loved it. And I loved the way he wrote it. And I loved how it was told.

And he, this is weird. This is weird for me. I know it is a thing. I have friends, good friends that I love that, that just see me as a person. I'm not like, I'm sure you've experienced this. There are people who treat you like you. And then there are people who treat you like the thing they see on TV. And it's very, very, very different.

And he's one of my friends who has never treated me like that thing from TV. and he really likes it when I narrate audiobooks. Oh, well, obviously many people. You've only done hundreds. That has told me how much he liked it. And I just thought, I'm just going to quick and dirty. I'm just going to record this and send it to him just as a, like, here you go. This is just for you, buddy, just because you're my friend and I'm so proud of you.

Congratulations. I started to do that. and then just this voice kind of like leapt like a little shadow version of me jumped out and went dude check this out you are the the narrator of the best-selling audiobook of all time you're a new york times best-selling audiobook narrator people tell you that they buy audiobooks because you narrate them what if you used all of that privilege to elevate the voices of writers that haven't yet found their way into the mainstream what if i use you used that skill that I have that I've worked really hard to develop to do really great work,

but the original material that forms the basis of that work is coming from people who may be waiting for their break. Everybody needs a break. Everybody just needs that moment to get in, right? So just like when Felicia and I did Tabletop, the idea for Tabletop sprung out of me fully formed in like four sentences. And I was, by the time I was done saying what it was going to be, I realized that I had just, I just designed the entire show in my head in just a matter of seconds because it just, everything felt right. I kind of intrinsically knew this is the way to do this. And I had a similar feeling about this when it was getting going. So I, I didn't record the thing. I wrote up an email to my team and I said, this is what I'm thinking. What do you guys think?

and like within and usually it's a while before I hear back from people because they're busy and I'm not their only client right I mean it was like I felt like I had I had not even hit send when the responses started coming in we're doing this let's get going let's set up a meeting this is amazing I want you to talk to I want you to talk to I want you to talk and and it all just came together right away um so uh I thought all right I'm just going to do this I'm going to go find some writers and I spent like eight months nine months just going through every like kind of emerging writer market and and every indie publication I could find and the stuff that was great had already been published and it was like already out there and and I realized I'm not good at this. I need an editor. I need somebody to do this. And a good friend of mine introduced me to Lynn and Michael Thomas who are the editors of a great speculative fiction magazine called Uncanny. And I had a meeting with them and I told I pitched them the show and they were really excited. And I said, okay, so. To start, I need to show the audience and I need to show the people I'm hoping are going

to come pitch me that this is real. So please find me great speculative fiction. I don't care how, I don't care who did it. I don't care how popular it is. Just help me find really great stuff. I would prefer if it hadn't really landed in the mainstream yet. Right. Because I kind of want to put it there. Yeah. And they were like, great, got it. And they came back with stuff. And like every piece was amazing and everything was wonderful and all but two authors said, yeah, we'd love for you to do this for us. And the authors were excited and supportive. It was important to me to pay them for their work. It was important to me to pay a little bit higher than what the SIFW per word rate is for things like this. I didn't want any rights. I didn't

want anything at all like that. I just wanted permission to narrate their stories. And as a I started doing that and going and going through that process, I had been listening to LeVar's podcast. And I love LeVar's podcast. And I say in the introduction of the first episode, like, before we were family on the Enterprise together, I was a Reading Rainbow kid. It's a huge Reading Rainbow family. Reading Rainbow came to our set. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this. And I, and I, and I just thought, gosh, LeVar's podcast. is finished and there's space and I think I'm going to try to step into that space if he says it's okay we had that conversation and all those things lined up went in and

recorded everything how much recorded 10 stories how long did it take you uh two weeks two weeks 10 stories and uh went to edit it all the audio was bad. You had to do it again? I had to do it all over. Were you upset? No, I was thrilled. It's like, I got a dress rehearsal. I was disappointed, right? I was like, bro, you had one job. You know, that was a bummer. But, you know, it wasn't a big deal. Right. Just did it again. And it was like I'd had a dress rehearsal that I didn't know. So so much better. So much better. I asked a woman, her name is Gabrielle DeCure. And she's one of the founders of a company called Skyboat that has done virtually every book that I've done, all the books I do for Scalzi, and a lot of the things that

I've done, all the books I've done for Bill Gates, she directs. And we've worked together for almost 20 years. And we have a great rapport and a great creative relationship. And I asked her if she would direct me on these. Because she helps me elevate my performances. She catches things that I miss. I catch things. That's good to have that. You know, and it's a really good creative partnership it's um so she reads it first and gets like the idea and the direction so she knows yeah right now you should have a little more energy because this is what's happening yeah and we talk about ahead of time you know what are motivations and who who is this person and who are you talking to and things like that anyway i brought her in and we worked uh we we did really good work together and

she knows me and she she she knows my voice and she knows my like she's been there literally in the front row for all of the work that I've done. And we were getting ready to finish episode one of the podcast and master it and put it up for like, you know, to be uploaded next week. And how long is it? It's about 46 minutes, I think. Um, so I wanted it to be less than an hour. I wanted to give people. I love that. I wanted it to be something that you can listen to it on your lunch break. You can listen to it on your commute. Yes. Thank God. That's why I do our episodes. Yeah. Yeah. Because I like, you know, that's what I like. There's podcasts that I love. I'm a huge. fan of Behind the Bastards, but it's difficult to set aside 90 minutes for something.

Or three hours some of these things. Oh, man, you're talking to someone who is an old school Dan Carlin's hardcore history fan, and I'd be like seven hours. What are you doing? This isn't the podcast. This is a university course. Yeah. So Cabriel said to me, as it was getting ready to go out, she's like, I just, I need you to know that we've done a lot of work together, and I think this is the best work you've ever done. And I feel like I've done really good work in the past and and and and and and and and and and and and and and and to hear that from someone who wow to hear that someone who knows me right and like after it's finished right it's not like I'm saying this to motivate you right it's just like I just want you to know this and

it's hard for me to take that and internalize it and hold on to it because there's a big part of me that uh that's not true that's not true they're all going to laugh at you you know they're nobody's telling you the truth they're all lying to you because they just want to like make money off of you or whatever um but we've been worked together long enough that I trust her so she's never said that never and i'm not so i'm not willing to like get out over my skis and be like look at how great i am but i am willing to accept the possibility that i that it doesn't suck that it's that it's that it's that it's good stuff and this comes i love that i wish there was i mean there's so many great writers out there and they'll never be heard yeah and just like i think

a lot of actors and you know i think that's such a beautiful thing for the arts and for artists out there and people who want to express themselves and people who have passions but work nine to five jobs that they don't necessarily love but this is their passion and it will remain their passion but having somewhere for a platform to be heard is is so rare you don't you don't see that so I hope people really support that I hope so too um the the material that I am pulling from is short speculative fiction and the short speculative fiction market at this moment is really struggling the um just it's hard for the magazines to stay afloat right and because the magazines are struggling to stay afloat nobody's really like the i want don't want to say nobody but the the opportunity for

writers to get paid for their work is just it's already difficult is even more difficult because there are not as many places for them to get published and it is my hope that by pulling from the short speculative fiction markets specifically that it helps bring a little bit of awareness and a little bit of visibility that uncanny and light speed and on spec and Clark's world and just these wonderful online publications that I'm crazy about that they see a growth in their subscriber base and that that people may go there because they liked one of the stories that I read and then they find all this other stuff that's just as great. See, I think this is important because a lot of times what you see, what you hear,

what you read it's sort of along the same lines yeah it's sort of like you're almost there are certain things that you can differentiate themselves people can differentiate themselves from other people but like now you're opening up another whole world of this in a way in business i think that there is a there is an understandable and defendable desire to stick with what's familiar. That's what I was trying to articulate, but I couldn't. Because, well, it's just, it's just, oh, I already sold ads for this. I know how to sell it, right? I had meetings with people about this and they didn't see it. They just didn't get it. And it was so interesting to talk to people who didn't get it and to see how limited they were in their thinking

and how unwilling they were to take a risk. So I financed this completely on my own. And I believe in it so strongly, and I believe in doing it the way I want to do it with, with the people I want to do it with, with the material that I wanted to use, that there is an audience that will love it. And I just hope that we find it. And when we find that audience, then I can take it to people who six months ago would have said, well, I needed to be more like this. I needed to be not an audiobook podcast. I needed to be a you talking about current events podcast. I'm like, wait, that's not, but that's not what I want to do, that I can go back to them and say, so, like, this is what we did and this is what it looks like, and would you like to be part of this moving forward? Would you, you know, do you want to, you want to get a piece of this? And hopefully they're like, yes, please, of just because it just means that we get that we just get to do more. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crime.

Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off. We're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. So you want to do more?

So this is like the first season, essentially. The first season, and it's very much, it's, it was. I think of it as a pilot season. You know, when you do a pilot for a show, you figure things out. You build your sets. It evolves. And nothing is exactly like the pilot, right? Like just you have to do so much.

You have to lay so much pipe to the pilot. And it's its own thing, which is why when I see a pilot that's like also legitimately great on its own, it blows my mind. It's like, how did they do that? Yeah. How did you do a pilot like that? That's crazy. Yeah.

Um, so this, this whole season is just to see. I'm just saying, hey, audience, I made a thing. Are you there? And hopefully the audience says we sure are. And then I's just going to get better and better. And then I can, then I can, then I can take that as a thing that's kind of packaged and finished and pitch that rather than having to have a negotiation about what it's going to look like. I really wanted to, I wanted to have something that was mine. I love, love, love doing other people's work. And I'm so grateful for it. Hosting the Reddy Room is the greatest job I have ever had. I loved it.

But it's very much at the pleasure of Paramount Plus or CBS or whoever they get sold to, which means until Strange New Worlds drops, whenever they decided to drop it, I don't know if I'm going to get to go back in and do that again. I don't know if this thing that I love so much is going to just be unavailable to me for the rest of my life. I love that this is my choice This is my

Doesn't that feel good Doesn't that feel good? It does. It's story time is mine 100%. And it is It's mine Even more than Tabletop was

Because Tabletop Felicia and I shared Tabletop And I No regrets. I'm thrilled I'm fiercely proud of our creative partnership And so intensely grateful

And every time I talk about Tabletop I need to point out Especially for the men in the audience I am the only dude involved in the development of tabletop. It was all women and all the incredibly good ideas came out of Jen Arnold and Sherry Bryant and Felicia Day and Kim Evie. A few ideas came out of me. So you just like the dumb guy?

No, I'm kidding. Dude, I just learned that look, on balance, I would rather work with women. Yeah. I just for a woman to have the same opportunity and access that an untalented or mediocre man has, she has to work so hard. So when we have the privilege of being joined by incredibly talented women to work with us, like just grab it. So anyway, we were coming out of of tabletop. It was heartbreaking to lose control of that to Legendary. And we tried to buy it back.

legendary is like we're never going to do anything with this we're not going to re-release it we're not going to do anything it's a dead property as far as we're concerned no we will not sell it to you i i never understand that i've been trying to get something back forever it's bizarre it didn't we sold it to sony we sold it to you know happy madison yeah and then uh ultimately it didn't get made yeah um and it's like i have fought for years i finally got to a point where they they said you can go out with it. Yeah. But we get a piece of it. Okay. So it's like, okay. But they took it for and so yeah, but I never understood that. It should be in the clause. I think you should say, hey, if we go out with this. Yeah. And we don't sell it. And if you paid me, if I pay you back

plus interest that money, I can have the project back. Period. Yeah. The thing is, if you talk to a creative person, the creative person be like, yeah, I want you to have your thing. The creative person is going to support you getting out there and being creative, right? We just don't deal with creative people anymore. We're talking to MBAs and gross venture capital bros. It's story time with Will Wheaton. Check this out. This is such a cool, not only a cool project, but an important one.

And I love that you had the balls to go out and do something like this. And just giving back to me. It's giving back and it's allowing people to hear from the unheard sometimes. I really hope so. It is my dream that we highlight and we elevate and we celebrate writers and short fiction. And a year from now or two years from now, one of the writers who we played for the very first time on the show that I narrated their thing, maybe they're signing a deal for an IP or something like that. Wouldn't that be cool? Wouldn't that be cool? I would I would love that. It's funny because I have an idea. I'll tell you after because I haven't like I haven't pitched yet but uh i have i have this idea too that's it's something like that you'll get it but um all right this is called shit talking with will wheaton patron dot com slash inside of you thank you for uh all of you that listen and support the podcast and here are some people with questions rapid fire let's do it yeah go if you could send a question to alien civilization and they could reply with one word what

would you ask will you come save us i was going to say that i was going to say will you help us isn't that funny well you help us because if it's one word it's like yes or no yeah yeah and and we don't have to ask them if they exist because they're answering us yeah um how do you deal with writers block if any i take walks when i get riders block and and it happens all the time so there's a moment in my writing process where this is terrible why was i even doing this what is wrong with me why do i i'm the worst i should never try to do this again i should throw this away i should throw this away i should print it out and burn it. When that happens, I know that it is the creative part of me saying you're so close to being done. That's good. You're almost there. You're almost through the draft.

And when that happens, I go for a walk. I get out. I talk it out. I move around. And sometimes that breaks it and sometimes it doesn't. My ability to be creative is predicated on me being able to swim in an ocean of ideas and inspiration. And that ocean has a tide. And I stand. at the shore. And when the tide is in, I can get in that water so easily. And I can just take a little dive in and get all the stuff I need. But when that tide goes out, I can't force that tide to come back in. Right. I can try to walk down to it. I can try to get close to it. But then I'm only in a few inches of water and like kind of like whatever comes out of that is muddy and gross and not what I want. I've learned that it's best to wait for that tide to come

back in. And it's going to come in on its own. I cannot force it. Good. That's that's experience. that's what that is you learn from experience for me when I write something yeah I'm like oh this is fucking great yeah this is really good yeah I go you know what I'm gonna send it to my friend Nick because he'll probably shit on it yeah and then I'll know if it's good yeah or not you know when it comes to writer's block yeah I sort of it depends if I keep coming back and back and I can't then I'm like well maybe the story isn't meant to be told that maybe it's not as good as I thought when but I give it time but it It's also very hard.

Let's see. Would you ever consider writing or directing future Star Trek projects? Yeah. Not directing. I don't have any experience there. That's not my skill set. There's people who are really good at it. But writing I know how to do.

I've written lots of Star Trek fan fiction in my life. And if I had the privilege, honestly, just to sit in their room and observe and watch how they do it, oh my God. What a gift that would be. Yeah. The closest I've come so far is that I got to write for the Star Trek comic book. and I got to write a Wesley Crusher story for the Star Trek comic book

that was set during Picard Season 3 and it was really wonderful and really exciting and it gave me just a little taste of what it is like to go through the Star Trek approval process it's complicated man I can't even imagine there's so many talented actors in Star Trek

who gave you the best advice who were you the most close with who intimidated you I was intimidated by everyone until I wasn't I got great advice from everyone at various points during all of those years, one of the things that I, that I'm, that I'm super aware of is that Patrick Stewart made me a better actor just by being in scenes with me. It was probably 1988 or 1989, first or second season and, or actually no, second or third season. And, uh, I, I heard an

interview with someone who had played hockey with Wayne Gretzky. And, um, by the way, Gretzky's mega heel turn breaks my heart. And it's awful that Vladimir Putin's super good buddy Ovechkin is going to be the guy to break Gretzky's record. Like, can we just reestablish Gordy Howe, please? Because at least he's, if he was problematic, we don't know about it. Anyway, somebody said, somebody said, when I play with Gretzky, I'm a better hockey player because you do not want to be that one guy on the ice who's not ready.

You don't want to be the one guy who he knows you're open. before you do he knows that you have a shot before you have even crossed the blue line be ready so you're ready prepared and you're focused and and and you're dialed in i would work hard to get to that point and i learned it from being in scenes with patrick and they never no one in next gen ever made me feel like i didn't deserve to be there or like i was a dumb kid or that i was an obnoxious kid or anything like that. They were all wonderful to me. Yeah. But just by existing the way that he did and carrying himself the way that he did, I just like, I don't want to let this guy down. I know. I know. I've been there. I don't want to be the weak link in this scene. No, I have been there. I have been there

where I just want to, I want to fit in. That's it. I just want him to look at me and go, okay. Yeah. You're good. Yeah. I've had that with a few actors. Many people look up to you for your honesty about mental health, which obviously you've done today. Does that ever feel like a burden or does it empower you? It feels like a really important responsibility. I feel like I'm a little bit of a caretaker. And in December,

just the reality of what we're looking at for hopefully only four years really crashed down on me really, really hard. And I thought, I can't do this podcast. It's frivolous. Like I need to be doing really important good work. And as I was saying that, I was like, like sitting with this. And I look down and I have this tattoo.

It's from Mr. Rogers. And it says, look for the helpers. And I got it during the first term presidency to remind myself that when things are bad, you look for the helpers. When things are scary, you know, when things are scary, you always look for the helpers and you are reminded. There are people who want to help. Yeah. There are people who want to make things better. One of the ways I can be a helper is to provide an escape and a break and a

reprieve from all of that, right? And I can do that by telling stories. And I can do that by, and I hear this from people all the time. Your voice is soothing. Your voice makes me feel comfortable. Like the way you tell stories, I like that. It feels like it is a gift. It is a privilege. It is also a responsibility. Sure. I am trying so hard to be the person that I always needed in the world. And the person I needed in the world was a person who said mental, mental illness is not a big deal. You didn't choose it. You didn't do anything you're not wrong you're not weak you're not dumb this is a thing that just happened to you and like you can get better i got better the shit i have been through the shit that i that i survived if i can survive this stuff i promise you that you can survive whatever your thing is and i'm

grateful for that i'm really really grateful for that i i don't take it for granted i don't want it to be the beginning and end of me but i know it's a big part of my life. And had I heard someone who I trusted and respected, who had credibility with me, talking about how mental health is just a thing, you know, it's just not, it's not a weird thing to be ashamed of or to be weird about. Had I had that voice in my head instead of my mom telling me how embarrassed I should be and how shameful it was and what a betrayal of the family it would be if anyone knew, uh, and how I should just try harder to be cheerful. Like if I had had support instead of that, I wouldn't have suffered for a really long time. I am trying so hard to be the person that I have

always needed in the world. And if I can be that person for myself, I occasionally am that for someone else. So whoever asked that, just thank you for the opportunity to be a helper. Did I not say, oh, that was April Roller Morris. Thanks, April. And, uh, I meet people at cons all the time who are also trauma survivors. And it's like we know. Maddie Seip was the writer's block one. Oh, thanks, man. And directing Jason Jeter.

Thank you. Thanks, Jason. Yes. There we go. I didn't say their names. So I, you know, people tell me just like, I'm a survivor too. That's all you have to say, right? And like sometimes you don't even have to.

Like, we just know. And I tell people, and I mean this, I'm sorry that you know the secret handshake. I wish that neither one of us knew this secret handshake. But there is a club that we get to walk into because we know that secret handshake and we're all in that club together. And that makes us cool. And it makes me feel less lonely and it makes me feel less weird and afraid. I think that's beautiful.

I'll leave you at this. I just remember you were talking about helpers. Yeah. I just felt like, you know, when you die, whenever you believe when you die. But if you die and you go to. the pearly gates and st peter's there or you're talking to god or whatever i always feel like they're going to say hey did you help your fellow man did you look out for him did you try to help someone and those are the i think the important things like that i think of is like how can i help

someone how could i make someone feel better about themselves how could i the little things because we get so caught up in everything. It's those little things that really make you feel whole. Every one of us has the opportunity to be a helper multiple times a day. Yeah. It's just a choice that we make. I 100%. All right, look, I could talk to you forever.

This is awesome. I love what you're doing. Thank you so much. I love talking to you. It's always a treat. You're such a, I mean, your energy is just right when you come into the house, playing with the dogs. Your dogs are great. Yeah, I love my dogs.

Boy, do I love your dogs? My dog's going to be super bummed when I go home. Oh, by the way, how many dogs do you have? I just have one, Marlowe. Oh, yeah, Marlowe. Yeah. What do we have for Marlowe?

So this is, so this is from Marlowe. This is my new product, Rosie's puppy fresh breath. Oh, my goodness. So you just put a cap in your dog's water in the morning, and it's odorless, tasteless, and your dog's breath will get better.

And it's like my dog's on there. Oh, my God, that's great. Yeah. Bravo, made in the USA. Way to go, dude. Hey, man. It doesn't happen anymore. No, it doesn't happen too much.

That's great. I love your dogs. That's wonderful. Well, you're amazing. Thanks for being here. Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful to come back. Awesome. We come back again?

Absolutely. At Grey Goose, we believe that pleasure is a necessity. That's why we craft the world's number one premium vodka in France, using only three of the finest natural ingredients. French winter wheat, water from Jean-Sac and yeast. with gray goose we invite you to live in the moment and make time wait seep responsibly what a guy a consummate podcast guest yes can you fix this understand the assignment yeah what's it's a little there you go perfect a little crooked my OCD kicked him but yeah he's a great guest because you always

know you're going to get the the genuine side of him and there's only one side of him it's genuine gonna get the juice you gotta get the juice so will you're the best thanks for being here um and thank you guys for being here if you like the interview again subscribe uh follow at inside of you podcast on instagram and facebook at inside of you pot on the twitter and join patron and become a patron and support the podcast patreon. patreon.com slash inside of you and right now we're going to read the top tiers uh that have been supporting this podcast this is the how deep is your love tier this is the top tier this is the there's you know it's just a bunch of good people supporting a show that i care about and i care about you guys so here we go nancy d little lisa you kiko bryan h my 80s concert

buddy nico p zack you're killing it running like the win brother nancy d haven't seen you in a while you've been traveling a lot with those uh supernatural conventions little lisa you're the best got your package you're simply the best you kiko i miss you rob i wasn't it rob i we keep having this conversation is that an eye no one is correct someone i think that's rob i it's rob i it has always said rob i we always say rob i you're my rabbi i love you rob jason dream weaver always love hearing from you sweet sophia m um always the best i always wish her the best she's uh she's working on herself like the rest of us just working on ourselves trying to get better raj just sent me a note um did you get the uh the top

tier the uh did you get the five year he's been around for five years on the patron and i sent the five years something special so if you're a five year you're getting something special and if you're um another tier you're still going to get special shit too so raj Gaj gave me tasty cakes in New Jersey. He's such a gym. And I froze him, and there was a couple months where I forgot about him. And you ate them later? I mean, I just finished him in the last couple weeks.

Was it good? Frozen. Incredible. Thank you, Raj. Wow. Yeah. Stacey L. and Jennifer Ann, Jennifer Ann, Stacey L. She's been here for, they've been here for a while. Jamal F.

Love Jamal F. Janelle B. Of course, Mike, Mike, how the hell are you? El Don's Supremo's been here forever. 99 more. Santiago M. Love Santi. Maddie S. Maddie Sipe. She's amazing. And Kendrick F, of course, been here. Kendrick F's been here forever. I just sent Kendrick F. And Belinda N. Belinda now, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave, Dave. We love you, Dave. Brad D. Can't forget Brad D. Rehadda, a child she's raising and living in Japan. And we miss her.

Abbottity is just a wonderful soul. Why don't you say a few names? I will. I don't know any of you personally, but I'll just read your names. Give them some affection. Tom N. Oh, yes.

Talia M. Tanya. Betsy D. I love my Betsy D. Riann and C. Riannon C. Like the weird. Michel A.

Michelle. Jeremy C. Jeremy C. Oaken. Eugene and Leah. Oh, man. Eugene and Leah. You know I love some me, me, some Eugene, Julia. Oh, yeah, of course.

Mel S or Mel's? Mel's. We love our Mel. Eric H. Yeah, Eric. Gosh, thank you, Eric. Amanda R. Amanda. Kevin E. Oh, yeah, Kevin E. And don't forget

Jorel's been here forever. And Jam and J, sweet Jammin J, sweet Leanne J. Luna R, Jules, M. Jessica B. Jules have been here forever. So is Luna and Jessica. Kaylee J. I love the name Kaylee. Charlene. Sweet Charlene. Or was that sweet Caroline? Sweet Charoline. Yeah, yeah. Marion Louise L. You're the best. You know that. Romeo, the band, of course. Jen T. Love your music. Jen. April R. April. Randy S. Randy. Randy. Randall, Randall, Pink Floyd, Claudia, beautiful Claudia, you and your mother, I love you guys.

Rachel D. is the best. Nick, Stephanie and Evan. Stephen. Yeah, we love Stephanie and Evan. And Don Giovanni, lovely Don Giovanni, Jenny B. 7, 6, been here forever. We love you. Tina E. Tina, talking Tina. N.G. Tracy.

Keith B. That's all that needs to be said about Keith B. Just Keith, behave yourself. Heather and Greg, Gretter, see you soon. Love them. L.E.K. Ben B. Ben B. Jammin. P.R.C. Sultan.

Sultan of Swing. Ingrid C. Dave T. David L. Kind of newbies, but not really. Now just part of the family, Dave T and David L. Jeff G. Kareem H.

I think I just sent Kareem something, too. And Brian B. Don't forget Brian B. We love you from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Brian Taze. Yes, a little waved with camera. We love you.

Thank you so much for being here and supporting us. And we will see you next week. Be good to yourself. Football season is here. Oh, man. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros one of the most interesting quarterback rooms to college Michigan is set at eight and a half wins to fantasy if you feel that way why didn't you trade them

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