Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - ZACHARY LEVI: Loving the Unlovable, Making Room for Peace, Shazam! Sequel, and Sandwich Artistry

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Zachary Levi (Shazam!, Chuck) joins us once again to give Amell a run for his money for Inside of You appearances. Zach never disappoints with getting deep and this week he gives a healthy (much needed) dose of self love. From the power of observing generosity, to collective manifestation, to the celestial ‘chicken and egg’ - we get into a lot this week. The meat of it revolves around self love and acceptance but Zach also talks about his mental health journey through the decade after Chuck ended and what his thoughts are around the Shazam! Sequel. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you for listening to this podcast. There's so many podcasts. I talk about this all the time. I mean, there's just podcast after podcast. But I've been here a lot longer than most of these podcasts, Ryan. Admit it.

I understand. I started out. I mean, there was nobody listening. And not that there's tons of people. I mean, it's a good listening. It's good following.

It's good. The year of our Lord 2018. It was quite a while ago. But, you know, I think during COVID, all of a sudden, everybody started a podcast. Look at all that. a podcast, right? And the fact that you guys still are listening to me is awesome because I have a job. And Ryan has a job. Rice has a job and Jason has job. And I enjoy doing it. And

I feel like I'm getting better at it. I really do. I feel like I'm more comfortable than I've ever been. Oh, but if you got 10,000 hours yet? No. I guess you have however many hours of Not a pilot, Ryan. But I've interviewed probably 250 people. Yeah? 250 interviews in the podcast. plus we did some repeats yeah some repeats but still it was still an interview yeah um anyway i'm i'm just saying thank you for listening our handles are at inside of you podcast on instagram and facebook at inside you pod it certainly helps when you follow us and more importantly it's important to write a review if you like the podcast it makes us jump up in the charts that's what reviews do helps the podcast and you can watch on youtube um i think we've got 200 000

subscribers cool on inside of you and the clips channel has over a hundred and something thousand and uh it's exciting it's cool it's like uh i i didn't think it would even get to this place and so thanks westwood one thanks ryan bryce um jason and my guests my guests who keep coming uh we have a great guest today by the way we'll be in dallas this is coming saturday and sunday citing autographs Tom Welling and I at the creation con with Jensen Ackles and Jared Padalecki from Supernatural. I might get up and sing Loudin Swain's playing. Saturday night we have a Smallville Nights event, me and Tom reading scripts, prizes. You don't want to miss it. Trust me, we've been doing it a lot now, probably 30 times. And we haven't had one person ever not like it.

It's always everybody's so happy and have so much fun. And if they don't, then I wouldn't be doing it. So get tickets to the event. You can go on my Twitter at Michael Rosenbaum. I was locked out. Yeah, that was a whole saga. It was. And I, you know, what's funny is I was like, oh, shit, I need it back. Because, you know, you have a lot of people know what your podcast is doing and, you know, and your work and life. And, and then, uh, I finally just kind of gave up. I go, yeah, I'm just done with Twitter. I just, I got a new account, whatever, doesn't have as many, obviously as many followers. And, um, and then, uh, this girl, Julian McNiven, an actress, great actress. And she texts me and says, hey, old friend, I saw that

you were hacked um i know somebody and i go okay and then that somebody called me or text me and then i text them and they got in touch with somebody and the next thing i know within 48 hours it was it was done Megan Megan Hubble Megan Hubble really helped me Megan you rock so i got the uh it's a pain in the ass when things get hacked because you're going we need your email to verify I go well they obviously took it when i hit the link so they changed the email so i don't I was I was this state of looping. I was in a loop. Was that we call us to?

Yeah. It was, anyway, it was inconvenient. Definition of insanity. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what it is.

Um, but anyway, Dallas, uh, also if you want to go to the inside of you online store, we've got great stuff. I've got the, the new ship keys autographed,

you know, uh, Clark's ship that Lex takes the key. And so, uh, smallville scripts, Lexmus, we have those.

Those are a big hit and a bunch of other stuff. Yeah, figures and inside of you mugs and tumblers and all that stuff so if you want to go there and also of course the album sunspin.com you can get our new album it just came out two weeks ago we uh we're we're everywhere um Spotify Apple but if you want to buy the CD I think it's an iTunes or you can get the CD on sunspin.com along with a cool merch um we had a real successful stage at show and we performed virtually live it was pretty awesome and so thanks for all your support doing that and And obviously the Talkville podcast is doing all right.

And we have good time doing that. So thanks for supporting that. And that really about does it. Thank you so much. And Zach Levi is here. This is a good one. I got him to cry. I didn't, I don't want to say, I got him to cry.

I just, we got really deep. I mean, this was, you're going to love this conversation. Jason was here. You weren't here for this interview. I was not. And Jason was, I really think like, wow. Zach is a really a really bright guy and he there's something that said here that you'll when you guys watch or listen that really affected me. I forgot I was being interviewed or interviewing someone and

it just made perfect sense. It was about family and stuff like that. So listen, it's a great interview. I love it. He's got the new Shazam coming out. He's got so many other things coming out. He's got his book, Radical Love, that you got to check out. He also has the audio book for out so you can hear his voice while you're listening and uh i love him i love him he's a really great friend of mine and i'm glad to have him on the podcast so let's get inside of zack levi it's my point of you you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum inside of you with michael rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio Did you ever see, you're yawning already?

You're yawning. I'm trying to actually pop my ears. Are you? But I'm also, but I also have a little yonnie in me. Yeah. And not the cello playing one. Did you ever listen to yonnie? No.

I never. I mean, I'm sure I've heard Yanni played on like, no. Some mall rate, you know, of music or like in a muzac in an elevator, but I've never, like, gone out of my way to listen to Yonnie, which is not to say the man is not talented. Could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you, could you. out or pick out if you're listening to music in an elevator in a mall and you heard Kenny G could you could you oh that's Kenny G for sure I think there are probably one or two tracks tracks one or two songs that would spark some kind of you know because like you know not too long ago well I don't know actually decades now that we think about it um but you know there were

commercials for Kenny G like you know so you would hear them you would hear the various you know songs that he would play but without lyrics it's very difficult like other than like claire d'aloon or whatever like it's very difficult for me to like listen to a non vocalized song and be like oh i know that song you know i know that track right i'm trying to uh find some canny g yeah of course uh and i think this is a tale as old as time rosam isn't this the one that everybody knows um i love that indiana jones figurine it's so good you like that yeah well it's all it's just really well done. I mean, like all the little details and the craftsmanship and it actually genuinely

looks like Harrison Ford's face as opposed to a lot of other figurines. That's true. They just, you know, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, with, with faces oftentimes, you know, I mean, it's like sometimes you get it right. No. This is not Kenny G. That's, hang on, hang on. Sure, that one. But didn't he, but that's not the one I'm thinking of. It's like, bair, near, near, near, near near, no, that's mash. no no that's match I'm an idiot I'm an idiot uh wow wow yeah anyway we were you and I were talking about we were talking about we were talking about well before conventions yeah right can well we were talking about conventions before this and you were talking about how when

you started doing conventions signing autographs and stuff you're doing chuck and you felt like you went there it was fine and the fans are great and blah blah you went somewhere in england bringing and england yeah birmingham don't you ever ever and and ultimately you were like you know i'm gonna wait till i i've done more well yeah look ultimately yes i prior to doing chuck i had only really done like one thing which was this show less than perfect which was a multi-camera sitcom that i did on a bc that's actually when you and i well no i met you i mean dang i met you when i was like 19 or something you don't even remember but it was it was bowling you used to do bowling on like mondays or tuesday night over in studio city yeah at pins with tom lennon and were you with that group

tom lennon michael ian in black and uh i knew ali hillis remember ali hillis no no i'm pretty sure that was her name um but i met i met some people like coming down and auditioning i didn't even live in l.a at the time i still lived in ventura with my parents but i would come down and i you know on all the auditions and stuff you'd meet people friends whatever and and And this girl, Allie was like, yeah, you should come. I go to this bowling night at Pins and this guy, you know, Michael Rosenbaum and all that stuff. And I knew who you were from the work that you had already done. Which wasn't a lot.

No, but I mean, you were a working actor. I was working. I was working. I was working. I was working. And, you know, all the things, whatever. And so anyway, yeah. So, but then right after around and then, when I was 21, I booked less than perfect.

And so from 2002 to 2005, I did this sitcom. But, you know, sitcoms, that's not a convention work. I mean, actually, nowadays, it's. like almost anything can go to a convention. It's really kind of crazy. Not crazy bad, just interesting how it's all evolved. But mostly sci-fi. But mostly sci-fi genre fantasy. Yeah, things that have some kind of a, you know, at least the connection to that world. Right, right. So I'd only really done that. And then I was doing Chuck. And then right, and then Chuck tied into that because it's nerd culture and sci-fi culture and all that kind of stuff.

And so I got invited to Birmingham to go to this convention called Star Fury. And I had a lovely time and met not just wonderful fans, but also friends. I mean, Felicia Day and I became friends there. Miracle Lori and I became friends there. But I realized, oh, and also we got to this. It was really funny because there was a campaign going on for Chuck at the time. Because I think it was like the end of the second season or something. And there was a big fan campaign to like save the show.

Subway was one of our main sponsors and even like product placement tie-ins. We had it on the show all the time. I liked it. It was a really good product placement in that we just leaned into it. It was so like winking to the audience. How about that footlong? You know, as opposed to like trying to make it subtle and like as if it's a part of natural dialogue in a show to talk about any product for that matter. And we don't get paid for the commercial anyway. But but it was really fun because there was a subway literally around the corner that the campaign was happening like right then that weekend because the finale was airing. And somebody told me there was a subway around the corner. And I was like, and I was like, and. And Adam and I, we had already done one panel. Adam Baldwin. Adam Baldwin, thank you. Very good. Who was the illustrious Casey on Chuck.

We had already done one panel. And it wasn't that small, that big of a convention. So like everybody who was at the convention who wanted to go to the panel, basically already saw the panel. And we had one other panel. And I said, well, what if we just like, what if we just like instead of doing the panel? What if we just invited everybody to go to Starbucks or to Subway? And I did. I just said, hey, so the footlong finale is going on right now.

we've already talked about all the things we can talk about who wants to go get a sandwich and we and i marched everyone how many people marched with you to subway a hundred maybe about that maybe about that and they all went in luster line the ansko marching one by one hurrah all the way from the convention center all the way and it was close i mean it wasn't like you know far far far far away but we had to like walk across this like you know i don't know business center kind of area sidewalks essentially bro way rocky be rocky all the way up those steps and then and then we had a map by the the poor people at subway had we gave we tried to give them a heads up but they were still not prepared for the amount of people that were they were about to get hit with and so because it was moving as slowly as it was I was like yo let me let me get back there so I started making sandwich with the sandwich artist by the way I became a sandwich artist for a day wow I know I know but anyway so I say all that to say it was a really memorable and lovely time I I'm so glad that I did it but one of the things that dawned on me in that in that in that weekend was, I don't really have a lot to talk about. I don't have a resume. I don't have a,

career in this particular world, sci-fi genre, fantasy, nerd culture, whatever, to sit at a table. Not that I wasn't worthy. Anybody's worthy of going and sitting at that table if you've been invited or whatever and you want to go sit there. But to me, I felt like I want to go build a bit more of this stuff. I'll come back. So when people come to the table, they have multiple things that they might have enjoyed of, of mine. And it makes, tangled. Shazam, sure, yeah. And the football movie, the American Underdog.

American Underdog. But that's not really, I mean, by the way, people still do come to conventions and have me sign their Little Rams helmets and stuff. So again, conventions transcend even genre at this point. They're really just, their entertainment conventions often, you know. Not that genre or sci-fi and all that stuff doesn't still take, you know, the lion's share of what all of it, all of it is, and rightfully so. Um, but yeah, I mean, the marvelous Mrs. Maisel. I mean, like all these, the random things that I've done. You've done a shit ton of stuff since Chuck. Well, I've done a good amount of things since Chuck, but, and even during Chuck. But anyway, the point is all those things apply to the experience and therefore make it a more enjoyable experience for the fan and for myself. And so yeah, I don't know. That's why I agree. I agree. It's definitely, but that makes it's a perfect reason. That's why you took a hiatus 10 years and then sort of like, okay, now I have a bunch of stuff. And I think, you know, it's

just, it's just more to talk about. Exactly. Different projects. Yeah. I could, I don't feel like I'm just talking about the same thing over and over. I think that's smart. And now you're at a place where, you know, you're a big movie star and things have changed. I'm trying.

I'm trying, baby. No, I haven't changed. I hope not. You know, it's good though, especially since, you know, 2007 and was Chuck, Chuck ended when? 2012. Yeah. But since 12, you got to think from 12 to now, 10 years. Like how much you've changed in, how much do you think you've changed?

mentally in terms of mental health. Oh, certainly. Well, I mean, listen, I, I hope I, you know, to your comment before, I hope I haven't changed at all when it comes to whatever the good, like with any of us, I hope that none of the good qualities in us change. Yeah. The good qualities hopefully not only never change, but only become more polished and more capable of creating more positivity in your own life and the lives of those around you. But yeah, I also hope we very much change with all the other stuff.

And to that point, I mean, dude, I, it's, I'm a, I am the same person and I am a completely different person when it comes to mental and emotional well-being and understanding of my mental and emotional health, you know. Yeah. And I'm so grateful for that. I mean, all the things we've talked about on this very podcast before, you know, the journey of all of it. You've been on the most.

By the way, you have, you're the, you, uh, what's the word? You surpassed. Surpassed. Umel. Stephen Amel and Tom Willing. You are, I think this is the fifth or sixth. Five. Five.

This is five. I think. Well, we also, we add, if you want to add to that part when that we had the therapist, our therapist, come on and talk with us where you came on for like 10 minutes. Okay. So maybe six. Maybe six. Sort of six.

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and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. you don't wait download the rocket money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with michael rosenbaum rocket money if you had to pinpoint like or one specific thing and maybe this is too vague and you'll have to elaborate on it but what has changed mostly in the last 10 years for you um in terms of your mental well-being what is the one thing that you notice you're just stronger about maybe handling

things handling life we'll get into your i know your dad is sick right now instagram and so it's like i guess why i'm asking this question is because i know we've talked about it and you know you post and you're asking for prayers and everybody's sending prayers including me to your father thank you and thank you to everybody out there who has been so awesome and so supportive and so loving and you know and really um thoughtful and intentional and selfless in those moments however moments that you guys can can can share and ultimately you know I think just a tangent really quickly. I think prayer is a beautiful thing, even if at the end of the day, the thing that we are earnestly

asking for and hoping for does not necessarily manifest. The intention behind it all. Taking a moment. Taking that moment and being of service in your energy, in your spirit, in your heart, in your mind, outside of you, that is good for you. It is good for them. It is good for us as a collective. and there really is, I believe, energetically.

And there's so much science behind this, too. I don't know if you're familiar with Dr. Joe Dispenza or people like Dr. Do you know them? I know of them. I mean, I've checked out of his stuff. I want to get Joe Despenza on the podcast. He's so amazing. Yeah, yeah, it's a really interesting cat.

I've never, I don't like follow him intently. I have one of his books. I have yet to get through. But I bring him up because I think that he is a representative of a very real thing, which is energetic kind of manifestation, which, by the way, is prayer that it's all the same thing this thing that for you know eons for thousand millennia we as human beings have had this practice of prayer of collective like intention setting and believing faith in like this thing's going to happen and mind over matter and if you do that intently enough

and truly enough you know jesus in the bible talks about faith the size of a mustard seed like but that but real faith we all you know to believe like i believe this could happen as opposed to that shit's happening like there's a difference and that. And the people that do that the most effectively, literally fucking do miraculous things. They change their own body chemistry. They're able to help others change their body chemistry. But our ability to think our way. And I know it sounds like pseudoscience nonsense. And trust me, I'm not an expert on any of this. But I fully, fully believe, because the data does, I mean, Dispenza has real data.

He, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, that you can see very clearly that are transitioning from a very unhealthy mind, heart, spirit, body, and you see all the bad stuff manifesting in their body because they're bad thought process. I believe all that.

And then if you have a good thought process, you can manifest the good things. So anyway, prayer, though, for all those of the more religious side of what manifesting is. And you're not a big advocate for organized religion and all that. You're more about...

You're not at all. No, no, not really. Yeah, no. I mean, well, we'll unpack that too. But, no, but I do think that as a concept, I think that prayer is real. And what we're seeing is that it's scientifically being validated. So whether you want to believe it's coming through God, through Jesus, or or or or or actually, no, Allah, it's not Muhammad because Muhammad was the prophet, but through Jesus God,

through through or just spiritual energy, or just spiritual energy. Or by the way, even if you're just a total atheist and all you believe in is science, there's science behind it. So there's something there to just appreciate. You've got to believe in something. There's something to appreciate behind them. And I think it's worth all of our time to allow ourselves to investigate that and really unpack that idea, whether you're a spiritual person or not.

And from my perspective, I'm both a spiritual person and a person of science. And I really think that all of the evidence is there enough for me to go, it's real. There's something real there. And it's not just for the person that we are praying for. It is for the collective. It is for our collective edification as human beings. Do you guys hear that? What he's saying in a nutshell.

Laman's terms right here, folks. I'm going to give you layman's terms. He's saying that it's science to actually, it's not just good for the person that you're maybe praying or thinking about or giving this energy and thought to, but it's actually good for you. It's good for the mind. And what he's saying is it's science. These guys like Joe Descences.

Yeah, and go check it out. Check it on your own. But look, it can't be a bad thing. I have friends that are atheist. And they're like, I don't believe God. I'm atheist. I go, I don't believe you're an atheist. You may not believe in God, but I don't believe that you're an atheist. Like, what do you mean? I go, I just think that you have to have belief in something. I don't think we can survive if we don't. You have to have

faith in something. Yeah, but by definition, atheist means no God. I mean, it's like, you know, so they are. You can't take away. I don't, I, by the way, there are atheists who are starting, who are starting to fuck with the definition of atheism and say it's almost like agnosticism. And I don't think that's fair. I think, I don't think that's fair to, agnostics. So you think it should be black or white? Should be this or you? No, no, no. What I'm saying is that if you believe in a particular faith, deity, religion, whatever, that's how you define yourself. Okay. If you want to define yourself as an atheist, by all means, that's your prerogative and your life and whatever. But as an atheist, own that, that means I am choosing to

not believe in God. I am making the, I, a person of faith chooses to have faith in that God. I guess that's what I'm trying to say. An atheist chooses to have faith in the lack of God. Their decision is they don't have, because they don't have any proof, right? We don't have any proof one way or the other. So you are, like you're saying, you have to have faith in that. But they are, by definition, they are taking the stance, I do not believe. So therefore, I believe in no God. I don't believe in God. Right? That's atheism. What I don't like, well, and then quickly, and then agnosticism is just they, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know one way or the other. And I doubt. Sure, whatever. It's the middle ground. It's that middle ground.

And to be perfectly honest, I feel like all of us ought to be a little bit more like that because I think that anytime human beings say, oh, I've got the answer, it is one of the most arrogant things that ever comes out of our mouth. It's so dangerous and it's full of so much hubris and the power that comes behind one's ability to then convince other people of whatever the fuck you believe. Yeah, that's that's the thing. That's where it gets really wacky. And I think that if we all had a bit more humility in this world and in this life, we would all be a bit more agnostic because what the fuck do we know? We don't know. anything we are these 80 little teeny bitty things how many societies have been ostracized murdered all through like what i think is right and you're wrong and you will die no i think again i wasn't there at the inception of any of these religions i don't know but but i but i think that like most things most i i don't maybe not mostly but but you had you had people that were trying to figure some shit out i mean you go back far enough we were tribal shamanic you know there are still some of those peoples now but it was way more

we were all much more there was more mysticism in all of it which is the cool shit that's the spiritual shit that's by the way you know there have been mystics of all the religions and the mystics all get together and hang out they don't hate each other

I think I've talked about the Enneagram on this podcast before but that all comes from mysticism of all the religions it was the Jewish Christian Muslim Buddhists like all of those mystics basically all agreed that the Indiogram was a real thing. It wasn't, they weren't all attacking each other and being like, well, I don't believe in your version of God. They're all like, okay, we all have these seven opinions. We'll table

those for now. But look at this fucking cool thing. Holy shit. This is some real shit, right? So I do think if you go back far enough, you had, you know, much smaller groups of people that were trying to find understanding and, and, and not just understanding, but have appreciation and gratitude toward the existence that they had and the connection they have to the universe as a whole. And also, they weren't like they would see things in the sky like shoot across the sky and not know think it's some other what is that is that a god possibly yeah so there was a lot of just like uncertainty put a put a pin put a pin in in comments though because i actually want i but i also want to get back like we're going down we're already going down in rabbit's right but i do i definitely want to get

there's something i do want to talk yeah well so let's remember these put a pin in in meteor's comments i want to i want to talk about that um but then yeah going coming back just really quickly to just tie a ribbon on something. If you're atheists, you're, you are, you are believing in not God. If you're, if you are religious, you are believing in God. If, but I don't think as an atheist, because I've seen a lot of, I've seen, not a lot. I've seen some arguments that atheists are making and basically calling themselves agnostic. And it's like, well, then call yourself agnostic.

Then say you don't know. There's not enough evidence to prove one way or the other. Yeah. But to call yourself an atheist, it's like, you're saying, no, I believe not God. I'm believing in the end. And again, You to you. I have, I really don't have any desire to try and move somebody off of that if they don't want to move off of that. Sure. But I will always want to talk about what I believe to be evident in this world. In a very real, tangible, visceral, scientifically, you know, governed world, these energy things are real. They are real. And they are, and they are markable. We are, or remarkable. They are, um, one of my, uh, calculable. They are measurable. They are, they are, there's data that can, they can support these things. And I think it's in all of our best interest to collectively go down that road. and figure out what that is because I think that's where all the good good is that's what the good

is the more collectively we can all be on that same page yeah I also think that look I don't know a lot about religion I could even start talking to you about my own religion I'm not religious I was bar mitzvah I probably did it for the money I don't know uh I respect my religion uh you know you do make a lot of money in a bar mitzvah well you did but I think my dad you know I you think you're dead kept I think so I'm not I don't remember no I used to I used to DJ weddings environment's i can see that you sing and all that but listen i it's so weird maybe i'm just a feeble-minded uh not incredibly educated sort of just averagely smart intellectual person maybe maybe i'm creative maybe but looks i'm a very creative person but i also think i just sit

there and i think and this is there's no scientific proof they're obviously but i just keep rewinding rewinding to the beginning and i keep saying so just it just it all just happened. That's what I keep going back to it. It all just happened. We just single cell organisms and then it kind of became and that's just it. There's no reason. Then we fast forward millions of years and we just and we're just all evolving and then there's other species out there and there's other. And this was just no one thought about this. No one said this is what why is there? But first of all, people say, why is there blackness? Why is there even blackness? Why was blackness created. You mean the void? You're talking about.

The void. Yeah. Not, not, no, got it. Yeah. No, I know. But like the void. Okay. Who created the, why is there nothing? Why is it? There shouldn't be anything if there's nothing. Right. So where to the void? What, what space does the void even, even exist in? If there is no space. Right. But then what contradicts that or, you know, makes me think like, maybe I'm wrong because I go all the way back and then I go, okay, and there's God. And then God did it all and created darkness and the void. And then the earth, all these planets, crashed in meteors and it created earth over millions of gears and then dinosaurs and

ice ages and all this shit until we are here now i'm like who created god though right it just keeps going fucking back dude so i don't know all i know is like it's the great celestial chicken and egg and i don't know why but it's it's sort of how i just feel yeah and some people don't feel that at all and they're like no god there's this movie called 30 days a night and there's these vampires and the only lines they say say in the whole movie is one two words the woman goes oh god and the vampire looks in and goes no god no god no god that's it they don't say another word anyway don't they say there is no god no god no god no god no god oh that's even more terrifying it's creepy but listen i do want to get because

we can go on about this and i you know and i want to go on i mean that's why i'm here i know but i but i do want to say is you know when i was thinking the question was like how have you changed in the last 10 But the reason I said it is because I wonder how Zach would have, how he would have been affected by his dad being in the hospital and dying and all these things going on if this was 10 years ago. Like how much have you evolved or how much have you gotten mentally stronger to make you give you coping abilities and not to say you can prepare, but sort of understand what's going on. No, totally, totally. What's the difference? Well, I mean, listen, look, and I've said this, before on the podcast. It all starts with self-love. All of it. All of it. I mean, maybe I'm generalizing

here, maybe. But what does self-love have to do with? Well, let me get there. All right. All right. Bros. And bomb. Jesus. So listen. Listen, listen. In order for us, I believe, in order for us to to have deep amounts of patience, fortitude, grace, kindness, strong. strength, confidence, decision making, in that, from that confidence. All of all of the attributes, I believe, all of the attributes that are really the attributes that we're seeking that we want. Peace. We're all really ultimately, we want to fucking feel peace. We don't want to be in a state of fight or flight, which we're all in all the time. Our society is built for it. Put a pin in that shit. But in order to feel all those things on the best, deepest, healthiest level, starts with you believing that you deserve to feel all those things on that level. And if you don't love yourself, truly love yourself, then you don't make that space, not the time, not the energy that you put toward yourself, not the, again, you have to practice all those things with yourself in order for you to practice them well with others on the deepest levels. You know, who talks about that in their

book? You, me. Your book. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Which is awesome. Which, by the way, you guys should get it. Where do they get the book? Radical love. You can get it online. It's, uh, well, Unfortunately, it's still not international. For anybody who is watching the podcast from outside of the U.S., I've been trying to get Harper Collins and the folks to figure out how to get it to other countries because it's just not available, particularly even if at the very least getting the audible or the book to other English speaking countries. Can you read?

You're the audio? I do. I read the audio. Yeah, I read the audio. But I want to get it even translated. I understand that there are. costs associated with doing all the translation. And the markets have to warrant that. Like, you know, there have to be enough people calling up their book companies in Brazil or

Italy or wherever and saying, yeah, and saying, hey, we really want this book. And then if there's enough of that demand, then they call Harper Collins. I'm like, yeah, we got a lot of people that want this book. But at the very least, there's no costs in translational, translational to go to other English speaking or even, even countries that have a lot of English speaking people in them if they want to, you know, it's easy. There's no, just make it available. It's digital for God's sake I mean it's like it's not Radical love

Radical love yeah radical love So all right So get back to To loving yourself Right to loving yourself In order to you're saying In order to do all these things To have a peace and strength

Forts all these things Yes I don't I don't see how it works any other way You buy a pair of socks That's two socks You buy a pair of bomba socks That's four socks Because one purchased is one donated

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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. in the survey so they know that I sent you don't wait download the rocket money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show but don't you think that I look around me and I hate to use celebrities as an example but I see a lot of people that I'm like they don't love themselves they're horrible people they're whatever and they're successful and they're doing all their things and they're walking on people and they don't give a shit what do you think they actually love each other that love themselves I don't think success and self-love are the same the mutually or they are mutually exclusive or you know what I mean like there are I mean it's unfortunate I wish carmically that the world worked faster that that our existence worked faster I wish that people doing shitty things felt the brunt of that shit faster it would course correct a lot of people a lot a lot more quickly I suppose you know and maybe make it but that's just not how it works and so yeah you can be very successful and be a douchebag you can be very

successful and treat people very poor and very successful and not love yourself? Sure, yes. Yeah, of course. But, but I, but I don't think, again, successes, success is a great marker sometimes. I think I've become more, every time I go and actually truly show up for myself, love myself, look at areas of my life that I need to like, yo, I need to be smarter about this. I need to be stronger about this. I need to be better about this. And I need to do it. And I need to keep that promise to myself. Every time I do that in my life, that's when really wonderful things happen. So I do think that success can be a marker of you loving yourself, of doing the work, real work, the internal work that you need to do, right? I agree with that.

I think that I really believe that being, I'll just say that being a good person and being generous and being humble and altruistic and all these things, it, if nothing makes you just feel better and makes you love yourself. I think it's helpful. I think it's helpful. But I guess what I would I would even go a step further and say focus less about being generous and focus more about about again loving yourself and accepting yourself and the more you're able to do that the more you're able to do it with other people the more the more you're willing to accept that like oh my god I I I fuck up all the time and there are so many things that I would rail and you know like my self-talk was so bad and all that jazz and as soon as I just started saying like

hey it's not your fault it's you know like straight up out of jerry magua or um now of a good will hunting you know robin will hunting at at matt damon it's not your fault it's not your fault that's true but that means it's true of everyone every single person it's true of everyone so you're saying and so hear me out so the internal work is recognizing that you want to be generous yes generosity as an act is a beautiful thing a beautiful thing and everyone should do it we're almost regardless of your motive. Go be generous. And by the way, generosity then, you know, brings out gratitude. And you know, gratitude. Scientific, bro, it's so cool. If you watch, not even if you are practicing gratitude. Brain changes. Dude, if you watch someone else show gratitude, it's almost more powerful

than you, your own gratitude practice. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. If you watch somebody helping It's more effective. You see it. Well, sure. And it encourages it in you. You are seeing an example in the wild and go, that is good. That is good to do. And you watch somebody walk an old lady across the street and you see the old lady, oh, thank you so much. That's hugely powerful for your own edification. Your own. I just want to cut you off real quick. Okay. And then remember what you're going to say. Because otherwise I'm going to forget this. Yeah. But unfortunately, and you could help me out here, I feel that in order to tell you, love myself. I just, if I'm more giving and I'm more generous and I'm good to people and maybe I'll feel that. Maybe I'll love myself more. And unfortunately, that doesn't work. And that's what I'm saying. It's not, that's an outside in approach. I know, but I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I'm, but like, let's say you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, uh, let's say in your life, you've killed some people. Okay. And nobody knows about it. Right. Right. I haven't killed anybody by the way this is a bad analogy no no but you've killed people then you're like you know what

i'm not going to kill anybody anymore but i can't love myself because i've killed before okay does that makes sense to you it does i don't that's a that is an end of a spectrum that i have a very hard time i think i'm a well don't use kill use uh let's just say um let's say i no no no it's fine i understand what you're saying you say what i'm saying i totally understand you understand yeah i get it so how does someone love themselves when they know some of the things they've done aren't lovable. Well, let me go. Next book.

Let me, let me finish, the next book. Let me finish this thought first. Okay. The reason I'm even bringing that up about is because I think it is far more, when you work from the inside out, the, the generosity flows out. You're not trying to be generous to be a good person. You become a good, and good and bad person. I mean healed, more healed, more awake, more aware, more capable, all of that, you know.

But when you become more of that by loving yourself, by radically accepting, forgiving, and loving yourself, then what happens is automatically you recognize as a logical person, hopefully you're a person, you know, that exercises logic, that in order to apply that to you, you have to apply to everyone else. Because this logic is the same. We are all products of our environment. That is the fucking logic. That's what it is. So if you are a murderer, I don't know why you've killed people, but every scenario, I haven't killed people. I know. Yes, I know. The proverbial I. The royal weed. The royal weed.

The editorial weed. You know, this is a very complicated case model. A lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what have you. Stay away from my special lady friend. Listen, what was I talking about? Oh, yeah. So you have to, by logic, you have. So if you're a murderer, I would say, chances are you've killed because of whatever programming you got in your life from birth to the point that you killed.

And that doesn't excuse it. It doesn't excuse any of it. It explains it. And we should all want the explanation because the explanation gives us the why. And the why allows us to see the human inside of the murderer and not dehumanize them at the same time. and if being able we can do that we can see the human in there we can still hold them accountable but have grace for them and love for them now some say well they had a fine childhood and you know dom or whatever blah blah i don't know listen there are sociopaths and psychopaths that are born

into this world there are there are and they required very little or maybe maybe even no abuse that led them there but i would say that that means they were still born so cellularly molecularly biologically they were born with like you know a little off they're off they still inherited that shit it wasn't their fault it which doesn't excuse domer going and fucking literally murdering people and eating them crazy horrible that's evil shit i get you you're not you're not but the essence that the the kernel of where it all started is supposed to be a far better existence hopefully for every child as they come into the world and so they don't end up in that place but even if you don't end up becoming a murderer it's a it's the whole scale

Your programming leads you to be this or that or whatever, all the way up to these far extremes. And all of it is on that same place of, guess what? Yes, you're responsible for your actions. You must pay consequences for your actions, but you are not actually at fault for. If we're looking at some like larger moral sin versus, you know, not sin or whatever, like, guys, yes, there's sinful acts and there's evil acts and all that shit. But you have to, we have to recognize that people are all, it sounds crazy, but everyone's doing the best they can. with the tools they have at that moment. So, so, so, hear me out.

So, I told you this would be heavy. So you do that work. If you're doing that work on yourself, that means in order to really do the work on yourself, that means you have to. It forces you to look at your parents, to look at your family, to look at your friends, to look at your enemies, to look at your other people and other places in the world and whatever, even historically, and look at them all as children of God, of the universe.

We're all, they started and got fucked. They started and got fucked in a way, and I can't have grace with them. I can have peace with them. And I think, and again, not absolving them of their responsibility, but understanding that there's way bigger, deeper things going on. And when we can do that deep work, guess what? You want to be generous. You want to be loving.

You want to be patient. You want to be kind. You want those people to understand that you see the human in them because that's the way we get them back that's the way that they become the better version of who they are and we can't do that truthfully we can't do that with authenticity we can't do that unless we've loved ourself first so have you gone through this have you gone through a part where there's listen have you ever thought when you're talking to your therapist when you're talking to when you go on that rehab center like that i went to yeah yeah and we went away and we talked to people was it easy for you

to say there's nothing this is like is it was this your belief there's nothing you can say right now nothing will make me love myself i cannot love myself i there's nothing i can do i just don't feel like i i am worthy of loving myself yeah have you ever thought that all the time like i mean i yes well yeah that's what drove me to that place to begin with i didn't want to live yeah i didn't But I also didn't even understand, really, truly understand what self-love was. I didn't understand what love was. I was 37 years old. I really didn't understand the concept of actual love.

I understood whatever I thought love was, you know. And I think we all have ideas of what we think love is. And still, it's a very amorphous, you know, beautiful, powerful, amazing, amazing word, term, definition, entity, energy. Love is, love is, like the highest. vibrational level of God like it's where we I think we're all being pulled toward where we're all supposed to be walking but we can't love if we're still shaming we can't love if we're still shaming if we're still hating if we're still afraid of each other because of all the bullshit that we've been programmed to believe to be afraid of each other that breeds that hate you know

what I mean it's it's so it's so sad but again that's but guess what you're not able to be programmed with hate if you've already filled yourself what what what real love is because you identify the charlatans you know when people are trying to just rile you up to be angry with someone else for a thing that that other person's afraid of it's insanity but so you become more aware in all of that so to wrap all that up then to come back to your question about like my dad 10 years ago if this was happening 10 years ago so many different variables would be going on my dad would have been living in north carolina at the time your mom would have been alive my mom would have been alive my sisters

would uh one would have been married neither of them would have had any kids right um was 2020 2013 i would have just had been finishing chuck was not by the way in a in a very good well i wasn't in the worst i had a i had a ways to go down into the darkness from well all along that time but were you ready for well listen i would have been i would have been okay i mean i'm okay right now. I love my dad, but my dad wasn't in my life, my whole life. I mean, really, I saw my dad two weeks a year. And we would talk on Sundays sometimes for like five, 10 minutes. My dad would call it swapping howdies. And not that my dad wasn't there to give me wisdoms along the way and love the way and encouragements and stuff. And I'm very appreciative. But why was it so intermittent?

Well, because my mom and dad divorced when I was six and then my mom remarried my stepdad and moved us up to Seattle. My dad's job was relocating to North Carolina. And my dad was like, well, I guess I'll only see the kids a little bit anyway. And he fucked off and went to North Carolina. And he worked for that company for another like 25 years. Why did you forgive him or have you? Obviously you have. Oh, yeah. Well, I think that I forgave my dad. I mean, it's a process. You know, like healing is a process. Yeah. It's not always like, and I forgave him then. It's like I am forgiving. I am healing. It's a journey. And that's okay. It's actually kind of beautiful in that way. you know and the pressure of like i got to get to this monumental moment and look sometimes it is

sometimes it is this massive moment or or least moments yeah and they're so cathartic i mean even when i flew in my dad's health took a real bad turn last week saturday yeah so not this past thursday but the thursday before i was supposed to come to la and be here uh for a little bit anyway starting on the 18th but my sister texted me two thursdays ago and she's like yo can you get here now because we're not even sure dad's going to make it through the night. And so I flew to L.A. And I got my rental car and I was driving from Ventura to L.A. And I just, you know, kept the radio off. It was a drive I knew very, very, very well going from L.A. to Ventura to L.A. That's where I grew up. And I, you know, and I've had a lot of journeys up and down the 101 and no radio on and just like

lost and thought and really kind of meditation, you know, when you go to that kind of flow state of thought. you're almost kind of in a meditative state and that brings a lot of like um i don't know like then they can bring on almost like a prayer state like a connected state and then that opens up catharsis and that opens up empathy and i just cried i just drove and i cried two thursdays ago i just drove just cried what were you thinking about when you were crying i don't know just like like did you ever think of like of what could have been or it could have been different? Do you not do that? No, I let go with that a long time. You do. You have to. You have to. I mean, you don't have to. You can hold on to shit for the rest of your life. But let me tell you, it's not worth it. And the reason why we hold on to it is because we're still living in this place of like, but it, you know, what it should have could us? Like, you got to let go with a fucking what shoulda could is. They didn't. Bottom line, there is no. And we will. And we will, I mean, I still do. I still do. So sad. What? Just hearing you say that, not even about you or me, but. Oh. of letting go of the what it shoulda could is?

Yeah, it's almost like, of course, you have to. It's unhealthy, but at the same time, when you let go of that, there really is no hope. There's all, there's only reality. And sometimes reality is not as good as false hope. I don't know. I don't know. I think, I don't know either. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not at all.

Listen, that you're absolutely entitled to whatever that, that thought. It's an interesting path down that thought process. You know, we're just, we're just unpacking ideas. I want to get to where you are, because. my uncle said something to me she said uh you know you see a therapist right i go yeah and he goes good i just think you know you should be talking about your mom with i go well i always taught you not talking about my family you know obviously you know not as much anymore but like she's like yeah i just i don't know how it's going to affect you when your mom passes and um that hit me really

hard because i thought i don't really see her very often and i've given her everything i bought her a house and I've helped her and constantly. And, you know, I just, it's a, you know, I love my mother, but I'm not, but, you know, it's so weird. Yeah. And I started to think, like of getting that call. Like someone calling saying, hey, you know, your mom passed. And even saying that, I get a little numb.

Yeah. And I don't know how I'll deal with it because there are certain things between my mother and father, between me and my mother, myself and my father, that will never, ever be. resolved because of really good reasons. And a lot of people say there's no good reasons. They're all, all reasons, there should be no reasons. You should always clear the air. You should always say it's, it's, I know I sound.

They're just two people that I can't really get close to. I just can't. You don't need to. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one

case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. I love them and I'm, I'd do anything for them, but it's just hard to really, I, I don't feel vulnerable. I can't open up and they won't. And it doesn't feel real. You don't need to.

So I just, I worry about myself, you know, when the time happens, if I'll be okay. Well, I would encourage you to, I would encourage you to recognize that,

again, the more you go and work on you, the more you'll be able to radically accept forgive and love them, okay? Which still does not equate to, you have to be close to them, which still does not equate to, you have to just give them carte blanche access

into your life in any way, shape, or form. None of those things equate to each other. You know what I'm saying? And it's not about that. It's not a, it's not being able to, I think, being able to handle a death or really anything, you know, involving any of this kind of stuff, the best way to be able to handle it is it's not that it's not that you have to somehow get everything healed so much that you're close again and you're like, oh, I love you. oh my god like that kind of love that's not what it is you have to you have to uh relinquish this idea that you're responsible for them first and foremost you're not responsible for them at all um so you know what i mean like i mean we have some responsibility as human beings to one another

but like up to whatever that responsibility is um up to up to that point that's not yours to that's not your burden to carry anymore i always feel a burden with with many things because I just have always been okay but then all my problem right but that's something you need to be working on I know that is a big thing you need to be working on because you're just you're carrying a load that's not yours but with your parents with anything else in your life understand what's yours and understand what's not that is one of the first rules of loving yourself that's boundaries that's boundaries so so you've got that but then also recognize that I think that the hardest seemingly I mean I can't think of something else but like seemingly the hardest thing

about losing someone in your life is if there hasn't been not the repairing of the relationship but the healing of the heart, the healing of the heart. Don't be stressing about I need to repair this relationship. Go heal your heart. And when you heal your heart, the way that you will see your mom when she ultimately passes will be a healthier, happier, more peaceful heart to take on that entire experience, whatever that's going to be at that point in your life. That's how you prepare for it. I feel like, again, twofold. My dad wasn't really in my life. I love him. I mean, I talk about it in my book. He's, he's been more a part of our lives in the last five, six years since he retired and moved out to L.A. and then moved to Ventura. Made an effort. Yeah. Yeah.

And his heart has always been, I really believe in the right place. I really do my, I do think my dad's heart's always been in the right place. But my dad and my mom, they came together to create me and my sisters. And I'm grateful for that. But Lord, they did not belong together as a relationship. That's how I feel about my family. Exactly. And it really, and, you know, and I've been able to look at my dad since going through a lot of this therapy. I've been able to look at my dad through the lens of recognizing that he was a product of his environment and just seeing the little boy in him. Just see the little boy. Look at your mom. See the little girl in her. Look at your dad. And she hasn't grown up since 16 years old. well bro okay but but but there you go and recognizing that oh man what is oh like let your heart break

for that it has yeah and then in that then you go oh there's some grace there's some empathy there's some love there's some there's some there's some things but there's also manipulation bro but listen understood but that's not understand that the manipulation is her trying to survive my mom was literally the I mean a master manipulator like oh my god like she could fucking sell ice to a fucking Eskimo you know what I mean like it was incredible the way that she could pull on people's heart strength I mean eventually that people started you hopefully people start recognizing the manipulative games and they all start burning bridges and all that shit you know what I mean which was really sad for my mom was hard but she wasn't manipulating

people because she wanted to be a bad person your mom is not manipulating you or anyone else because she's actually like twisting her McAvalian mustache and being like, agreed. No. She's manipulating because she's trying to fucking survive because that's what she learned. It's all she knows. Which doesn't absolve it of, or her, of her responsibility and the consequences of it, which means you don't have to have a relationship with her, but heal your fucking heart

and heal it by recognizing that it's not intentional. It's not personal. It's none of those things. She's just scared little girl. Bro, we're all just scared little kids. all of the ways we hurt other people, all the bullshit that we do in the world, it's just a scared little kid in there, which sounds fucking, again, woo-woo-y and whatever.

But, I mean, honestly, if you just break it down on a psychological level, fucking Freud and young and all of it, they all say the same goddamn thing, basically. They point to the same thing. Those guys were really, really smart, young, I think, particularly. And all, I mean, by the way, so much of this stuff, you can look back at, you know, like stoicism. I mean, there's so many of these wisdoms that are even found in that kind of stuff.

But really the way that the human psyche has been broken down and we understand how we work. If we really all went by that as the North Star and we took that as real textbook, science, and we all looked at each other through the eyes of that. Holy shit, this world would be so much better. But again, not just the science with the love. You got to go with that love. It's not just even recognizing that somebody is a scared little child. It's having a love for that child. It's recognizing that they are deserving of the love that.

they didn't get, which is why they are behaving. I think that's why you and I understand each other. You, it's, it's amazing hearing you because it's, it's like you're telling me everything that's so obvious, but I've never really heard it. So I've never heard this from therapists or your, your analogy, not even your analogy, but the reality of what it is about that little girl and all these things. And it's just powerful. Like I'd never received what I just received from you ever that made.

absolute sense. I don't know why. Well, because you're very articulate and you know this and you've lived this. But I just, it's, it's so profound to me to hear that because I just didn't understand it. I'll say things to my brother and I go, this and this and my sister and well, you know, my brother and we'll just but never has someone put it out there where it was a defending thing. It was. It was. was more like not that you're defending her actions or whatever but defending that this is this is her surviving this is all that i mean it's just it's well let me it's insanely profound to me like i was looking at you just like i felt like i wasn't even here like this is one of the first times where i'm i'm talking to you and i'm like oh i got to be the interview here and i honestly was just

like well oh my god well bless you man thank you i could see you were getting a little emotional because you were talking about you too but but as a kid absolutely but But I'm going to, I think the reason why that might have felt different than other therapies or things, or maybe you haven't heard that or whatever, is because, well, because of God. And let me explain. You go to most therapy, Privy Swiss. Privy Swiss was an incredible place to go. Incredible.

And the battery of therapists and professionals that helped me to. get into a healthier place in my life and give me tools to go and continue to survive and thrive in my life. So grateful for that. But if were it not for Beth in the book, her name is not Beth. I know who you're talking about. You know what I'm talking about. Were it not for her and really breaking the protocol, the protocol that could have got her fired. And I'm glad she wasn't. I'm glad that Heidi and, you know, that everybody understood how important that was. But it took her loving, by the way, a woman of God, a woman who is deeply spiritual and one of, honestly, one of the most empathetic, truly empathetic, not like, oh, no, no, I know.

Did you have, you had a meeting. Oh, yeah, no, she feels everything. So you know, so you know what I'm talking about. Yes. So, so for her to take it upon herself to love on me and felt by God to do so, to pray for me, to love on me, right? That is a energy, that is love. again, talking about the highest vibrational version of God, that is love as an energy that was being

literally poured through her as a conduit to me, to me. And that, and that is the X factor, my friend. The X factor, and I think difference between going and just having clinical therapy and having, perhaps in a moment, right now, I got to be a conduit. By the way, I could feel it. I'm not even kidding. When I find myself falling into these really interesting slipstreams sometimes, and it's like, oh, I'm not even talking right now. Like, this is God talking through me. Like, I know I'm saying the words, and I know I believe the words. And it's because I've had these thoughts before. But you believe them so inherently. Right. Bro, I believe them with everything in my heart. I feel like it's part of my entire calling in this world is to go and help people love themselves so that we can love each other.

God damn it, man. It's like, it's hard. It's so goddamn hard. But it's so simple. It's so simple. If we could just figure that out, if we could just get there. So I spent a lot of time thinking about this shit, you know? Yeah. So that's a lot of time. That's, anyway, so that's my way of saying, if you're wondering why that felt different, I think it's because of God. I think it's in moments like that where I get to be a conduit to just speak something that I believe to be absolute fucking wisdom. It is absolute wisdom.

It is absolute truth. It is absolutely what we need to do. And I was someone who was accepting it and believing everything. Like it was, it wasn't just. We're having a real conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. But you do. That's what you do here, which is great. you get all kinds of therapy and wisdom and all kinds of though because you have so many people come on and get to share the things that have helped them in their life you know and in doing so helping everybody out there do it's wonderful awesome uh so what's going on in your career man shazam is coming out march what 17 March 17 March 17 Saint Patrick's day St. Potichs de saint paschex dee oh shazam two what's it called shazam chazam two electric boogaloo no it's not I wanted it to me though I really did um no it's shazam Fury of the Gods. That's what that's the name of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's super fun. Everybody should

I mean, have you seen it? Yeah. Yeah. You saw it. Yeah. You're smiling. It's great. It's big. It's bigger than the first. Oh, it's significantly bigger in in production and scale and stuff. Yeah. But also heart. It's got a heart. Well, it's got all, all, in the first one did. It's got all the, I mean, I know I'm biased, clearly. I mean, as the titular character of, of a it's very difficult to not be biased about your movie but but i think i try to be as objective as i can when i can and you know look i watch it there's still things i'm like i would have done that different or if i or if i had the edit i like this take or that's whatever but bro holistically speaking i mean it's a better movie than the first one it is and the first one was a pretty darn good

movie so i think that um taking a picture just doing a just doing a photo shoot in the middle of the photo of the podcast. That's fantastic. I was trying to be, you know, get some action shots. No, you do whatever you need to do. I love it. How about something? There you. I got it. Um, but I'm glad you liked it. So, I mean, honestly, like I'm chomping in the bit for people to go and see the movie because I really think, I really think. How are they not going to see this? I hope so. I believe so. I don't know.

Bro, I don't know. None of this stuff is written in stone. You don't know these things. You just, you got a humility, gratitude and trust, man. Be humble to wherever you're out in your life and recognize that you are where you are and try to take that in for what it is, always be grateful for what that is and trust, I think, in God, in that higher power, in that energy, in, in all that is in and through all things like the force. Trust that shit and recognize that the more work you're doing on yourself, the better it's able to help guide you to those fucking dope places in your life, you know, those three things. If the movie does well, like, great. If it does really well, fuck yeah. If it doesn't, I'd be,

I'd be, I would be disappointed and I'd be surprised because, you wouldn't, you'd be strong enough from the therapy that you wouldn't fall apart again. I hope so. You can't remember. You can't validation, all these things. It doesn't equate with real love and real, so or actual values of human being. But bro, it's hard. You know it's hard. It's hard, but you can't, particularly in our business is real hard. Believe me. Because it's so personal. I know. It feels so personal. Yeah. But anyway, so yeah, it comes out on our 17th. I think radical love is the book. You guys got to get that. If you're overseas. Just Instagram him or tweet him.

And he'll probably message you back and say, oh, get it here or have your friend get. He's trying to get it overseas. We're trying to figure it out. Right, right. And what else is going on? What else? I did a movie called Harold and the Purple Crayon that's based on the children's book. That comes out in June at some point.

So that'll be really interesting. And then what else? I don't know. I mean, there's work and things that are lining up for the year. Do you just want to do movies, by the way, now? Or would you do a streaming show? Oh, no. To me, it doesn't matter with the.

what the medium is so much as it matters what the quality of the content is, you know? Like I was dying to be in The Last of Us. Like I wanted that role. Did you see it? I haven't. Not yet. But I've heard it's great. I can't wait to watch it. And I'm stoked for it. I might listen, the Last of Us video game first and second, that whole franchise, some of the best gaming I've ever had in my whole. See, I've never played that game. Oh my goodness gracious. It's so good. But my, my, my, but Carter Swan, he's an executive producer. I love you, Carter. I'm very proud of him. Yeah. I hope this thing blows the hell

love. Everybody's loving it. Oh, yeah. He hasn't, he hasn't returned my email. So fuck you. And Neil Druckman and everybody at Naughty Dog and all the people that are behind the game. Like, you know, it's a, and by the way, it's a huge win for video game content because most series and movies that come from video games just haven't really been great. That's true. You know, it's not, it's not been a very successful transition and, which is unfortunate because they are so intrinsically connected, particularly now that we have so many movies and so much content with cgii and and video games are the video game engines

are where they're building it you know i think we're starting to get into that transitional phase which is which is great first of all i want to say thank you because you're not only a great friend even though we don't see each other a lot i'm always there for you you're always there for me anytime unlike most of my friends it's i'm being honest if i text him and i just say how you doing he'll send me like a three minute voice message of his voice and saying what's going on and how are you you like you always take time and you don't have to because i know you're busy sometimes it doesn't need to happen right away but you're always you've just always been such a great great friend and great great dude you if anyone deserves the success you have they have it's you it's you it is you um

you help people you give so much love i see your instagrams where you talk to people and you talk about talk about faith and you talk about loving yourself and you talk about you're just genuinely golden And sometimes I know you don't, like, we still fall back into the self-loat and we don't, and you just, if you ever think that way, you have to just know that, uh, look, if I like you, I like you. I mean, fuck, dude. But look, this has been, this has been awesome. I never, I always want to have you on. Every, every year, I hope you'll come on and just. Well, you know, I do. I love it. You do. Listen, man, I, I, I, I, I, first of all, thank you so much that those words mean so much to me. Like, legit, legit, legit, legit. Legit. mean so much and I know you do and that's why they mean something to me you know um but I've said it before on the podcast I love coming on because of this because of this very thing because of if nothing else we two people that genuinely care for each other and who care about unpacking big ideas can sit down and just unpack big ideas and that's why I love podcasts so much you know like it really is given people an opportunity look talk shows and all that stuff like that can be fun I guess

but it's all canned it's all like super like crunched you know you're doing a bit you're doing a bit you're doing a thing and that can be fun but you don't actually have to get to have a real fucking conversation and I think that's why by the way I think that's why podcasts have blown up because we need deeper fucking conversations we need we've lived in this bite-sized disposable content world next time Jimmy Kimball we'll talk to him for three minutes about yeah it's about nothing about nothing you know and those are great I love Jimmy but we're starved of course of course but we're starved for we have been starved for real meaty deeper conversations and that's what podcasts provide

and that's what yours provides in the spades. I think the most, thank you. Thank you. And I think the one word, if it's a word, relatability. That's a word. I think people,

when they listen, I think a lot of people go, oh, Rosen Mom's got, who's Rosenbaum and he's got a celebrity podcast. But when people listen to it and they actually come to me and they spread the word, they're like, this isn't a celebrity.

This is like you're really trying to find something out to help someone who's listening or yourself or, and that's its purpose in a lot of way this this podcast has inadvertently given me purpose i never thought it was going to be a podcast about mental health or talking about adversity and anxiety i never i thought it was just going to be hey so anyway let's talk about and all of a sudden vulnerability hit and it opened up and you're one of the people that really got this thing started from the beginning with opening up and talking about your mom and you haven't heard the other episodes you're in for a treat i love you thanks for a lot to be inside of you for the sixth time oh man and every time you're inside me

it gets a little bit easier and a little limper because i'm 50 i'll see you later love you buddy love you always good always great he's been on more than anyone he's now tops the stephen emel and welling as most appearances really yep you know i think jared's been on three times and jensen they've each been on three times so they're up there um who else who else has been on welling's been on like three four times You've had Erica Durantz a couple of times. Durantz has been on twice. Kristen's been on two or three times, three times, I think.

So anyway, thank you, Zach Levi. If you're just listening and you didn't listen to the intro, there's a lot of great stuff on there where me and Tom are going to be signing autographs and where to get our new CD and blah, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. But again, I couldn't do this without the top tier patrons, who I'm going to read off now. So these are the top tier patrons, Patreon.com, slash inside of you. if you want to join if you want to give to the podcast and keep it going um without you guys

i couldn't do it here we go nancy d lea s s sara v little lisa ukiko e b jason w sophy m christin crook no christin k another christin k raj c rj you've been here a long time hi raj josh d jennifer and stacey l has been here and jamal f and janel b kimberly e mike e l don supremo 99 more. Santiago M. Chad W. Leanne P. Janine R. All these names. See, I read them off now and it's just like they've been around for, I mean, years. It's insanity that I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. I'm saying it's insane how supportive and amazing you are. And when I read these names off, it's like, you've been with me since the beginning. It's, it's cool. I'm very lucky. And I really hope you're still enjoying the podcast. If not write in and say, hey, you've lost it. It's just the interviews. It's all about the interview. So if, you know, if you like the interviews, this other bullshit that I'm talking right now, like, you know, in the intros, it's, it's not as important as the information you get from the guests.

And I don't think anybody wants to really hear me babble on like I'm doing. Maya P, Maddie S, Belinda, and Chris, H, Dave H, Sheila G. Brad. D. Correct. Ray H. Tab with the T. I'm going to come to Japan sometime, Ray. I will.

I'll see you and your husband. and maybe your baby. Tom, that was creepy. Tom N. Lillianna A. Talia M. Betsy D. Hi, Betsy. Where are you? Are you zooming or what?

You're supposed to zoom with us? Canceled. I think you were sick. Chad B. Dan N. Big Stevie W. Angel M. Rian and C. Corey K. Deb Nexon. Michelle A.

Jeremy C. Brandy D. Camille S. Joey M. Eugene N. Leah. How's that little baby? Corey. Heather Locklear. Heather L.

Jake B. Megan T. Mel S. Orlando C. C. Caroline R. Christine S. Eric H. Shane R. Emma R. Andrew M. Zadouichi 77. Andreas N. Oracle. Karina N. Hi, Karina. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Lena 82. Jarrell. Billy S. Jam and J. Leanne J. Luna R. Cindy E. Mike F. Stone H.

Brian L. Cameron E. Katie B. Aaron R. Clayton J. Kendall L. Joel S. and Meredith I. I don't know what I would do. I couldn't do it. I love you guys. Thank you for listening to the podcast. Thanks for supporting us. Ryan from the Hollywood Hills in California. I am Michael Rosenbaum.

You're Michael Rosenbaum and I am Brian Taylor. We'll wave to the camera. We love you guys. Thanks for continuing to join us. Be good to yourselves. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000.

What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding.

$50,000. I'll buy a new podcast partner. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's follow and listen on your favorite platform.