Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Adam Copeland: 25 Years Of Edge, Choosing AEW Over WWE, WrestleMania Moments, Christian Cage

Episode Date: May 9, 2024

Adam Copeland (@ratedrcope) is a professional wrestler signed with AEW, he is also known for his 25-year career in WWE where he performed under the name "Edge". He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at his home in Asheville, NC to talk about being in the best shape of his life at age 50, why he designed Pure Plank with Christian Cage to help with core fitness, his decision to leave WWE for AEW, how he almost signed with AEW in 2019 instead of returning at the 2020 Royal Rumble, being forced to retire in 2011, how he met his wife Beth Phoenix, spearing Jeff Hardy off the ladder at WrestleMania 17, being on the receiving end of a leg drop off the cage from Matt Hardy at WWE Unforgiven 2005, his funny moments as a tag team with Christian, wanting to retire in a year and a half, being inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: “I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” ― Maya Angelou Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! RHONE: Upgrade your closet with Rhone and use CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV BLUECHEW: Use the code INSIGHT to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight MUDWTR: Get 15% off with the code CVV15 at http://mudwtr.com/cvv PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris. Oh, man, here we go. Episode number 600. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being with us. Thank you, as always, for making Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet.

And if you're one of the thousands of people who just listen to the show but don't follow the show, please take a few seconds today to just hit follow on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening. If it is Spotify, drop a comment in that section where it says, what did you think of this episode? It's always fun reading those.

Also, throw in a question for tomorrow's Ask CVV episode. That's a great place to send in your questions along with that hashtag Ask CVV on social media. Big one today. Not just because it's the milestone episode number 600, but Adam Copeland, Edge, whatever you want to call him. my fellow Canadian has been on my list of dream guests for a long, long time,

especially for two people who grew up just outside of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. And you really couldn't ask for a nicer guy. A few weeks ago, I posted a photo of my plane taking off. I posted a photo outside, you know, the plane window. And I said I was heading to Asheville, North Carolina, to do a big interview. I thought that was just like a lay. little hint, but I was amazed by how many people knew exactly who I was flying to see. So yeah, we did this inside Adam and Beth Phoenix's house. Well, actually inside their incredible

Jim, take a look at the video version of this on YouTube and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. He had all of the championships that he's ever won hanging in the background. He also had the pure plank in there. That's the planking board that he designed with Christian Cage. And it's no coincidence that Adam Copeland and Christian Cage are on the best shape of their lives at 50 years old. And a lot of it has to do with Pure Plank. So they set us up with the discount code CVV to save a pretty decent amount of money when you head to Go PurePlank.com. And yeah, you can be as shredded as them at any age of your life, but they're shredded, like absolutely shredded. You know what I'm talking about at 50 years old.

There's so much to get into with Adam Copeland's career in WW. 25 years there, that neck injury that forced him into early retirement at 2011, that incredible surprise return, that emotional return nine years later at the Royal Rumble in 2020. And then he made his AEW debut last fall. It turns out that that AEW debut almost happened in 2019. So he had the option in 2019. It was either go back to WWE or debut for AEW. We dive into that and everything else.

He was so gracious to give us over an hour and a half for this conversation. I feel like we could have gone like seven more hours. So hopefully there's a part two in here at some point. Snap a screenshot and tag us online when you post it. He's at rated R. Cope on social media. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here we go. It's episode number 600.

Enjoy this conversation with Adam Copeland. As a fellow Canadian, this is an honor. This is an honor. A long time coming here. Yeah. I mean, I've seen some of your stuff and I've been seeing it for a while. Likewise, I've seen some of your stuff for a while. What a career.

Unbelievable. Yeah, I mean, as we kind of were briefly touching on before, it's, I don't really think about it a whole lot until. I sit down and kind of do an interview and we start going back and then it starts to refresh my memory on just how long and, you know, all the different things. And they even like the, so sometimes I'll forget who I wrestled, you know, and it's, I saw a clip on Instagram of Gangrel and I wrestling Road Warriors in Puerto Rico. And as soon as I saw it, oh, yeah. Wow.

But I just kind of forgotten. Yeah. How do you forget you wrestle the road warriors? You know what I mean? It was no commentary on the match or them. I loved working them, but it started to come back to me when I saw the clip. And, yeah, so there's certain things that, you know, through the fogs of mists of time, you know, I'll be reminded of eventually. But I don't sit and think about it.

It's pretty incredible that you're in the best shape of your life now at 50. Yeah, I mean, I'd like to think I am. And you look at, you know, but it's, it's, it's. things that I took for granted before I can't now. And I have to work harder now than I did before, which is a good thing. Because by working harder than I really dove in, and I was like, okay, it all started with just being around for my girls. And then it led to this, and then I led to that.

And then here we are, you know, four, four and a half years into a comeback that I never thought would happen. So, but it really just, it started with wanting to be around for my girls. You know, I've already, you know, come to grips with the fact that I'm going to look like Gandalf when I take them to their high school dance or whatever, but, uh, but at least, at least they'll still be here, you know, knock on wood. How much has this helped? Pure plank.

So this was, this was really fun because literally from the ground up, J and I. I, Christian and I, uh, put this thing together. Um, I had gone down to Jay's and he had noticed, you know, I'm starting to get back in shape. He goes, what are you doing? I said, honestly, planks. I started with planks. I just started planking. I thought, okay, I'm about 260, um, dad boughtish, ish, and not really watch my diet, just kind of living life, you know. Um, But I took them up the stairs one night, probably 60 pounds combined, and I was pretty tired. I was like, whoa, okay, got to do something about this. What can I do?

What can I do? Well, let's start with planks, body weight. Let's just go there, build up my core. So I don't throw my back out, you know, as I start lifting again, more seriously. And then, so I started planking, really difficult at first. When I talked to Jay, he goes, just planking. Yeah, man. planking. I just started with planking. So he goes, I try it. Do 30. And by 20, he was starting

to shake. He was like, oh, man. So then he became an accolade as well. And then we started planking. And then I would go down there while we were doing kind of the residency at Tropicanal Field. I'd just stay at Jay's place. And then he had the idea. He was like, listen, what about like a planking mechanism because we were finding with our elbows with all the floating debris in our elbows, the shoulder surgeries, the peck surgeries, the wrist surgeries, all of those things. It was kind of painful on our joints, you know, and we just thought if we could come up with something that could make sure your form was strict, but take some of the stress off your joints, that might be interesting. So we started talking about it. And then I put

sharp beat of paper and literally drew a diagram of some of our ideas and fast forward you know to a couple of years later and it was like oh we're this is actually going to be a thing and we're we're now we're starting manufacturing and this was during the pandemic so everything it slowed to a crawl um but once once we cleared the pandemic uh that's when it got serious and it got real and um yeah but we were involved in every stage of it the you know picking the low Geez, I'm dangerous, man. Picking the logo, picking the color, you know, testing the padding on it, the handles for stability, you know, all of those things were involved in the app and the software. And it was really just kind of fun to be involved in like literally drawing this thing on a piece of paper to now seeing it sitting here.

It's still odd to me because usually in terms of creating things, it's always been story related. or character related or it'll be our you know my gear you know things like that but i've i've never been involved in an actual product um so so that's been it's been kind of fun honestly it's a great workout too i've been doing it since you guys sent me one that's a great workout it'll get you yeah um i you know Dustin actually came up to me go so what's the deal i was like well it's planking but it'll make it easier uh to maintain your form because it's not going to hurt as much on the other areas kind of thing. And we have apps and timers and different exercises you can try. So I said, you know, it's going to help with lower back. That was honestly the

thing I noticed immediately when I started planking. I was like, okay, the core got stronger. Ooh, my lower back feels a lot better. Yeah. And then diet falls into line because you're feeling better, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So it's been really fun, honestly, to just be involved in it and just see this thing grow, like I said, from a diagram to sitting here between us like that. So you guys set us up with a coupon code CVV. If people watching this or listening to this, want to save some money and check out gopureplank.com. Yep. And you can work out with Adam and I because that's what we're doing.

Yeah. And, you know, more than anything, I just thought when Jay and I looked into the market, and we saw that there was really nothing. And the couple of things that I saw were pretty dangerous. and we tried them. And just to test and see, like, how's this going to work? And we're crushing our fingers. And it was, you know, the stability was difficult.

And I thought, okay, if you've never planked before, how are you going to get on this thing? Sure. Whereas this, you can never have planked a day in your life. Yeah. And you can hop on here and do it. And really, more than anything, we're thinking of, okay, a mom who's coming out of pregnancy, whereas had a C-section, wants to get the core back, you know, because people don't really talk about what women go through post-pregnancy, whether it's postpartum,

but also the splitting of your abdominal muscles. I mean, it's hard to get that back, you know, and I've watched Beth, you know, work through it. And her work ethic and her workout, you know, it's part of her life. But for someone who maybe it isn't, but still wants to get it back, this feels like a way to dip your toes in and start getting there. Or just the dude working on the assembly line and in Boise, you know, and he's standing on concrete all day and his lower back's jacked. So is he going to want to do deadlifts? Yeah. Probably not. Yeah. I feel like you guys are going to be on Shark Tank with this. This feels like a Shark Tank product. Yeah, I'm not good with the, with the possibility of dismissal. Two of them are Canadian. I feel like we'd, you know,

good company. Robert Hershevik and Mr. Wonderful. All right. So I just kind of, you know, wear Maple Leafs T-shirt. They'd be like, hey, one of us. or team Canada or something. That's how it is with Canadians. This is so funny. Yes. Like, ah,

you too. Well, you know, and I've talked about it. It's like, what, there's 37 million people in Canada, but landmass-wise,

it's bigger than the United States. Right. So when somebody makes it, it's like the whole country is, is behind you now, you know? I've always loved that. Like,

whether it's St. John's or Victoria, I feel like a hometown kid. And I've always loved that about Canada. There was something about growing up outside of Toronto, for me, knowing that you and Christian had made it. I wanted to be a pro wrestler. Like, that was my dream when I was in high school.

Knowing that you guys had done it from about the same area made us go, oh, it's possible. Because if you think back before that, wasn't really anyone from that area. And not from our area, no. And if someone had, you know, kind of broke through, it was, you know, the Rujos, who their family, you know, had history or the hearts. or it was rare to have like a Paterson or someone kind of make it, I guess, from Canada. It's a lot of Calgary. A lot of Calgary.

You know, and just having no real inroads to getting into the industry until Carl DeMarco, who ended up being the Canadian president at WWE, he was the one that started opening eyes and kind of turning a spotlight as to what was going on up in Canada. and that's you know that ended up being me and and christian and valvinus and gail kim and tristratus and and uh it ended up being a you know quite a little hotbed yeah but if no one had done it before you and of course in your high school yearbook you're most likely to be wf champion what made you think you could actually do it uh maybe stubbornness you know I'm pretty stubborn.

Once I latch on to an idea, I at least have to see it through. And then if it doesn't work, okay, it didn't work, maybe it can work a different way. And I'll try it this way. And then I'll try it that way and then I'll try it that way. But I just, it's all I ever wanted to do. So to me, if I would rather try and do everything that I could to make it happen, And rather than go, I wonder, you know, I didn't want to be that guy. I didn't want to be that guy.

And there's nothing wrong with this. But I worked on an assembly line building car seats. And I didn't want to be that guy at 60, you know, getting ready for his gold watch. I wanted to go out and chase it. And if it didn't pan out, okay. But that was just, it wasn't an option to me. I just knew. I was like, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to get this. However long it takes, I'm going to get it. it and I won't have a family until and I won't really set roots until everything was geared toward this and doing this to the point where like I stopped playing hockey. I didn't ski. I didn't do a lot of the things that other kids did because I was like, I can't risk a broken like. I can't, this, that or the other, whatever that is. So yeah, when high school yearbook, I think they kind of knew by that point, but I don't think anyone actually thought,

oh, okay, if we say this, it'll end up happening. I don't know. But for me, I knew it was going to. It was just no matter how long. You're like, I have to now. They think I'm going to. Yeah, right? I don't live up to this.

With all that said, how difficult was it when this is your dream and you lived it and then it was taken away from you? Yeah, I mean, I had to pretty quickly wrap my mind around the idea that this was, I was being told I could never do this again, right? Do you remember that day? Yeah, because we had done WrestleMania 27. Atlanta?

Yes. Me and Del Rio, you know, world champ. So I'm thinking, okay, we'll get to the next pay-per-view. It's a ladder match. I'll drop the title there. Then I'll take a little break because, you know, I was sore. But I'd been sore for a while. and did Charlotte, just did commentary and a quick little spear.

But even that single spear, I was like, ooh, got a bit of a zinger there. So I drove up here because I just bought this house, drove up here. It was sitting on my deck and I got a call from Vince. And he told me, you know, we're told you got to retire. And I went, oh, right. Were you even thinking that was an option? I always told myself by 40 I'd be done and I was 37 at that point. So I assumed I had a few more years with a bit of a break in there.

But you're probably thinking my neck hurts. Maybe it's surgery. Maybe it's, yeah. And that was my thought. It's like, okay, well, I have a double fusion in my neck. I came back, wrestled 10 more years after that double fusion and I'm wrestling Sina and Batista and Undertaker and Kane and Big Show as a heel champion who's taken most. of those bumps. That's part of the job. And I knew that. So I just assumed, okay, well, the discs on either side of this fusion are slamming off of that fusion. I know that shortened

my career. I didn't know to what extent, you know, and I finally had the second neck surgery in 2012. So I'd been retired for a year. And Beth will remind me, she goes, when we were out running errands or whatever, it'd be two hours, you'd have to go get flat. And then, then we could go back out again, but it was, it was to the point where, like, I'd turn my head and it felt like I always said, like a hot water bottle would just being released inside my, my head, and I'd feel it run down, and be driving, and she goes, hot water bottle, I was like, yep, just got to give it a few seconds, you know. So that, that's the extent that it had gotten to, but again, before that, I just assumed

that was normal because, yeah, I have a double fusion, I'm getting thrown around by extremely large, strong men. And that was the case. It just, I didn't realize I'd develop stenosis and, you know, all of the, the things that were going on. So when I got the triple fusion, when they fused me up another level, the relief was instantaneous. I woke up in the hallway and I was like, well, man, I don't have a headache.

And that's when it dawned on me, I'd had a headache for like a decade. Wow. Because it just became the new normal. And it's amazing what you can put up with when it just, because, you know, it just, becomes part of your day. So what was the, what was your immediate reaction after that phone call when Vince says you've got to retire? Well, I was surrounded by my four dogs and, uh, I just kind of sat down and felt sorry for myself for a little bit, you know, um, had a, had a cry, you know, because it's the only thing I ever wanted to do, right? So even though I, I assumed I was

close to retiring, it's still, at least initially it didn't make it, it, it wasn't easy. But fairly quickly, I realized, okay, if I don't have a choice in this at all, then I have to wrap my mind around this pretty quickly, or this is going to be an unhealthy, emotional climate for me. Yeah. And then luckily, the executive producer for Haven saw my retirement speech, and they were looking for a tie-in with Haven because Smackdown aired before it. They wanted something to coincide with lead in. And they asked for me because I guess they were almost in tears watching the retirement speech. And that wasn't acting ability at all. That was just me retiring from the only thing ever wanted to do, right?

What a monologue. Right. I know. And that was my addition, essentially. And then, you know, I flew to Tampa. And then Jay and Del Rio had their ladder match as part of that. And then I took off for Nova Scotia. And one episode turned into 41.

Wow. And then from there, about halfway through the second season, I was like, I really enjoy this. I better start putting some work in instead of just showing up. You know, and that's when I started taking classes and diving into, you know, pulling apart movies and why certain actress made certain decisions and what were they doing. And then going back and studying, okay, like Tom Hardy studied apes, you know, for. for this role. Okay, interesting. And De Niro studied Cobra's for Cape Fear. Um, just little things like that. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. And, and it tapped into the creative vein still. And I realized that was really important to, to my makeup. Um, if I, if I'm not creating some form of story, it just feels,

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and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EES system. Do you have moments on set as an actor? Because when you're a wrestler, you have an immediate feedback, right? Like it works or it doesn't work? When you're an actor, you can watch it back on playback and you can go, oh, looks like a good take to me.

Are there moments where you're kind of like, was that, was that okay for everybody? At first, initially, yeah, for sure, because not really having much of my idea of what I was doing, you know, and I had to get used to pulling things back from wrestling, which is, you know, I guess the same with theater. Everything has to be big. Sure. And in acting's here, right? It's right here.

Yeah. They can see your, you know, nose hairs. Like, you've got to pull it back. Micro expressions. That's a big term they use it. Yeah. And it's real. So once I kind of started to wrap my mind around that, I started to feel more comfortable.

And then I could start to feel like that felt pretty good. All right. It felt like myself and that other actor were, we got to that. place. But initially, it was strange because like you said, it's that instant gratification, knowing instantly if it worked or not with wrestling. And I equate it kind of to stand up or maybe a band or a singer and knowing, okay, this song's really connecting or my set is killing. Or it's not having to switch up paths. With acting, you could have the take that you feel was the best, but for the totality of the scene, maybe it isn't. So that's not the one that you're going to

and the edit it once it's edited but also the aspect of you know i filmed the last season i was involved in viking i didn't see it for two and a half years you know and it's like oh yeah okay i kind of forgot what that scene was almost um so i had to get used to that yeah and and wrap my mind around that like once you do it you just got it flies away and and you'll see it when you see it and it's dumb did you have hints during your nine years off of like I feel good. Maybe. Maybe I could come back. I honestly, no. I felt good, but I didn't assume good enough for that, you know, because that's just a different beast entirely. It's a there's nothing I've found that that can prepare you for having a pro wrestling match except just having one.

You can train. You can do all those things. But until you factor in adrenaline, getting the wind knocked out of you, and then having to get up and run. And how do you train for that? Okay, you can get in a ring, but if there's no audience, it's not the same. It's not the same endorphins. It's not the same dopamine. It's not that same adrenaline and the adrenaline dump. You know, you're probably just working, but going through the motions and training.

Getting out there is an entirely different thing. I didn't know. I didn't think that was ever possible because I was told it wasn't. I started doing, you know, stunt scenes. And I was doing my own stunts and I thought, I feel okay. I feel good here. Huh. Okay, but it's still not that, right?

It really truly wasn't until I wiped out my mountain bike with Seamus. And because that was uncontrolled. And that was the first kind of uncontrolled fall that I had taken, you know, because on a set, everything's very controlled. and maybe have padding, this, that, and the other. The mountain bike was going downhill, wiping out off a jump, unclipping in midair and essentially taking an arm drag on rocks and rolling up to my feet and going, I'm fine.

I'm okay. Interesting. That's kind of when it all started the light bulbs. Where did it go from there? from there a week later i was at summer slam in toronto and um and uh you gave a spirit of a lias yes and it gave everyone so much hope well and you know it was one of those deals that i was out there and i just felt it and i knew what i'd been going through um nobody else did so it was uh it was really cool looking back i haven't watched it back or anything but you can see the moment where

where Elias realizes, uh-oh, oh, oh, like you can see his body makeup change. And mine does too, because I'm like, oh, I'm going to do this. And he just, he saw the switch. And luckily, he's a, he's a great enough performer that he picked up what I was putting down. Yeah, when you pulled the hair back, everybody in the audience went, oh, there's a chance. There's a chance. You know, and even at that point, I didn't know if there was. But I thought, I'm here. I can feel this crowd wants it. I'm going to do it. Were you under contract with WWB at the time? It was just a one-off appearance.

Just a one-off appearance. Hey, look, hometown crowd. It's a nice little hometown, you know, moment for them on the pre-show. You know, that's all it was. But then after doing that, I was like, man, come on, I can do this. That's when I started visiting doctors. And I went on my own and I just started checking off all of the doctors that needed to sign off on this thing. And, yeah, and then that was it.

Then the ball started rolling. I've heard you say that you had an offer from AEW before you went back to WWE. How close were you to signing with A&W instead of making that return at the Royal Rumble in 2020? Really close. You know, we had great discussions. What time would this be late 2019?

Yeah. And you were cleared? Yes. So I got cleared. Were they cleared? You were cleared? I got, so when I, first started talking to AEW, I wasn't yet cleared. I'd made it, we'd talk about it like the bosses

of, of each video game level, you know, but I still wasn't cleared by company doctors, right? So once all of those clearances started to come, I was like, oh, this is, this is real now. Okay. So before I did anything, I had to go kind of get the final clearance needed for either company. And so I was, but I negotiated with, with everybody. I was like, okay, here's where I'm at. Here's what I've been told I can do. And, and started the, the process. And then in going to WWE and sending down with Vince, he goes, well, it's got to happen here. You know, and, and at that stage, I looked at the equity built and, you know, it felt like having to start over was especially having to start over after having been gone for nine years felt really daunting,

if that makes sense. It felt like at least with WWE, that's one thing off the table that I don't have to worry about. I can come back and walk into the history of this character. And I do feel like it needed to happen there initially. I really do, you know, if only for that Royal Rumble moment, you know, right before the pandemic hit and just feeling and experiencing that. I'm happy the way it turned out. Can you put into words that expression on your face when you came out of the smoke?

I can't. Not really, no. There's so many things going on there. So many things rushing through my brain, through my heart, just, I'm dumbfounded. This is happening. And the smoke almost felt like made it. feel like a dream sequence like I was there but I almost wasn't I was almost watching myself I don't really know how to explain it there were so many things going on in my body at that point

you know again dopamine endorphins the adrenaline like you can't you try and explain it to people but you can't you know if you could bottle it you'd be a trillionaire um but it was it was very surreal, but yet real. It's really hard to explain those moments. But that one was, it was really special, you know, just to get back after nine years. Because nine years, you know, I've said this before. It's not like the ship had sailed. It was like, it wasn't even on the horizon. It was on the other side of the world. Like, it was gone. Nine years is a long time. I think Sean was four, and Dana Brian was two, nine years. Yeah.

You know, and then the questions, okay, can I do this? All right, how's this going to be? And, you know, I'm taking a deep six before I know it. And then I'm taking the magic killer before I know it. And I'm like, okay, all right, okay, I got this. But it took those first few minutes to kind of get that under my belt and realize, okay, yeah, I can't. There are so few surprises in wrestling anymore. That was a genuine surprise.

Yeah, I mean, you know, hindsight, everybody else said they knew. There was actually a sign in the crowd. Have you seen that? No. When they go to the wide shot, there's like, it says rated R. Rumble. And I'm like, how? Did they just bring that sign every year? There was one.

I went up to Pittsburgh to meet with Dr. Maroon. And he was the final boss, right? So that was the final clearance. And I'm like, I can't have anybody seen me in Pittsburgh. at the airport. So I'm wearing a hat. I'm wearing a hoodie. And sure enough, I'm walking by this one coffee shop. And dude goes, edge. And sure enough, you start to see little things here and there kind of thing. I'm just in town visiting Kurt Angle. I just came up to see the Steelers, penguins. So there was a little bit of rumblings, but like the amount of people that said they

knew, no, you didn't. When you showed up to the arena that day, I'm sure you shocked. Nobody saw me. Nobody saw me. They took me right to the Astros manager's office. And that's where I was all day sequestered in there. Beth was, you know, heating up my meals and bringing them to me like, and even she had to be a little bit clandest. And even though she was in the women's rumble that night. So it was, it was a weird day because I didn't come out of that room until about 10 minutes before I was supposed to go out. And that's when I got up to. a gorilla and I think in the documentary you start to see people going what the hell like oh shit yeah yeah how do the inner workings of that return compared to the surprise debut in aEW uh so with with AEW it was it was easier in in the fact that like it happened so quick so my contract was up with WWE I want to say it was September 21st That's when I started talking to Tony, it was September 22nd. And Russell Dream was October 1st.

So it all happened within like a week. And so we got it done. I flew out there with Tony. I got in the night before filmed the opening video with Darby and Jean-Carlo, who works with us, And we just guerrilla shot that thing at night in Seattle. But like there was nobody around where we were filming because Darby knows all the, all the nooks and crannies. And then, you know, I'm sitting there and holding on to Jean Carlo at the back of an SUV

while he's filming this muscle car being driven behind us through this thing like gum alley or whatever it's called. And I was just having such a blast because, you know, I was involved. I was like, this was the vision I had and I was helping create it. Instead of, here's the vision, go crazy with it and then seeing it after the fact. Like, it was fun, really fun to be involved, you know, flying drones. Darby's out tagging roads running out in between traffic and tagging rated R on this, on this road that we're flying a drone over while I'm driving across rated R.

And then the Mariners just won. So fireworks are going off, serendipity. Like, it was really, really fun. If you had both contracts in front of you in 2019 and you chose WWE, you know, fast forward a handful of years later, what made you choose AEW this time around? It felt like I'd done everything that I was going to do with WWE. I'd worked the people I'd wanted to work, you know, 95% anyway.

And it really just felt like they were on a direction and I was on a direction and they were kind of going in separate ways. You know, I wanted to be with this limited window that I have. I wanted to be involved. You know, I wanted to be there kind of on a weekly basis in order to tell proper stories, in order to, you know what I mean? And it's tough to do that popping in and out every three months or so. And I also get the idea of, well, but that keeps it special.

And I understand that. But again, I'm working with such a limited time frame here that I got to go while I can go. And I looked at the roster and I just thought, man, so many people that I've never laid hands on and been in the ring with. You know, and the one that seems to blow people's mind is Samoa Joe. Like in all the years that him and I have both been wrestling, we've never touched. You know, and then I see Moxley and I see Claudio and Brian and I have never had a proper solo, you know, singles, swerve and hangman. And then if you look at the tag teams, FTR, young bucks, like Penta and Phoenix.

And man, that's just the tip of the iceberg, let alone all the young guys that have already wrestled since I've been there. It's just, it's really exciting. And almost feels, I don't want to say I feel like a kid again, because I think that sailed. but I'm just having fun. Like even with each match, I'm like, I'm going to try something

I've never tried before. I was against Brody King the other night. I've never done Blockbuster. I'm going to try a Blockbuster. Why not? Never done a Davey Boy Power. It's like, well,

let me try that. You know, I just, it's fun to get out there and just try anything, especially at this stage of the career. But I think in working new people and a whole roster of new people

that, I don't know, it's just opened up my brain to all. the different possibilities. You keep saying there's only a certain amount of time you can keep doing this for. You're clearly putting that expiry date in your career yourself. Why are you giving yourself only another year and a half or two years? You know, I just, a lot of it will depend on how I feel, how the body's holding up. You know, I can't kid myself. I have a triple fusion of my neck.

you know, and no one has come back to wrestle with a triple fusion of their neck. You move your neck pretty well, though. I do, I do, you know, and, but I put a lot of work in. And, you know, I got iron neck over there constantly doing all that, you know. So the work doesn't stop. And at a certain point, you know, I'm 50. You know, by the time I'm 52, I don't know, I might just be really tired and just ready to call it a day.

I don't ever want to get to the point where people, talent look at a run sheet and go, okay, might be some work. I don't want to be that guy. You're going to get to a point when this contract is up where there's going to be a contract renewal. They're going to put one in front of you and you're going to have to make a decision. I mean, maybe.

You never know. Why not? I don't know. I mean, if I can keep performing at a level, but more importantly, a level that I can feel proud. out of. You know, I don't, I just don't want to get to a point where I'm like really struggling and just, it's like pulling teeth to get it done. I don't want to do that. And thankfully, because of my career, I'm at a point where I don't have to do that. I'm doing this because

I just, I love it. And I also think, and, you know, I've talked to the girls about this. and I'm hoping, you know, they see the work ethic and the work that I still put in to do this thing that I want to do even though I don't have to do it. I'm hoping that they see that and it can rub off and they pick up some lessons from that too. But by the same token, I want to be here for everything for them. And I've been able to manage it and be around for the Shakespeare plays and be around to run drama club with Beth. and take lyric to her audition tonight. And, you know, I'm still able to be there for those things. I haven't missed a birthday.

So it's just a matter of being able to balance both so far as possible. The stuff you've done with Christian and AW has been so much fun. And the go-f-yourself moment, I'm sure you knew it would be a big moment, but my goodness, that became something way bigger than what it was. Yeah. Yeah, and looking back, like, I guess I was just used to not being able to do things like that. So suddenly there's that freedom, and it was like, oh, wait, what, we can what? He's going to say the F bomb on live TV?

Huh. Okay. Knowing that eventually there's got to be the rebuttal. And that one, the button would be a little off. But, yeah, I mean, it set the tone for what it needed to be. And honestly, one of the major reasons on top of the roster was, you know, he's there. And we never got that single solo story that we wanted. You know, we had opportunities with WWF, but we weren't in the right place.

You know, we weren't the performers that we needed to be to pull off what we would be proud of. It was fine, but it wasn't what we thought it could be. it really took being at this stage of our careers, having gone through everything that we've gone through, becoming the performers that we've become mentally, to really feel like, okay, now is the time to do this. He's there. If I'm going to do this, I've got to go there. And then, okay, let's do it. Let's do it right. When you started having your singles runs individually, that, I mean, you were, doing your own thing and then Christian went to TNA. Yeah. Do you remember the conversations you had with him at that time when he started even

talking about like, I think I might go do this other thing? Honestly, he told me the day that he told everyone else. And he said, I'm going. I was like, whoa, okay. But I get it. I get it. You know, when when people put a limit on you And they won't really allow you to go past that limit. It's frustrating. And he needed to. I think he really needed to just to show himself that he could. And I think that was part of the reasoning for going to AEW was,

okay, I'm going to get an opportunity to do what I know I can do over there. And as you can tell, he's totally done that and completely recreated himself. and it's fun to see him performing at a level that I always knew was there. It was just a matter of, again, the opportunity. Is he doing the best work of his career right now? I think so. And that's only because I do feel like he was limited beforehand. You know, throughout the years, I think, again, you keep hitting a glass ceiling.

And some will break through, but. But I don't think it was ever meant for him to break through. And that's got to be frustrating. I mean, the stuff with the dads. And I think that was a happy accident. I really, I think like so many things that end up working, it just ended up being a happy accident. And then you start to like go, oh, well, if this person would be that and that and that and like, and I am like, I am a virgin territory for that, like never met my dad.

Are you kidding? Like, he's going to have a field day with us. Your legacy was already well cemented in WW. And I think that the way that things ended in WW was so perfect, right? You're in Toronto, celebrating 25 years, bang of a match with Seamus. What does this add on to your legacy now with what you're doing in AEW? You know, I think the legacy thing, I don't really buy into it. I think legacies are created by the people that make the videos packages and the people who

book and they decide whether you have a legacy or not so I don't get wrapped up in it. You know, it's not like, it's not like I'm the New York Islanders in the early 80s where you're legitimately winning four Stanley Cups in a row. That's a legacy. Okay. This is entertainment. You know, is there really a legacy? I personally don't look at it that way.

I mean, of course there's a legacy. I don't buy it. My legacy, to me, and this is how I look at it, am I raising? good human beings. That's my legacy. Not what I do in Spandex. It's just so interesting that time we're in right now with wrestling where there's a lot of WWE fans that just won't watch your current work. And vice versa, right? There's a lot of AEW fans that may not be familiar with what you did at WWE. As a performer, when you're in there, what's, how do you react to the tribalism that's going on? I think silly personally. I would, you know, only because when I,

I was growing up, I wanted to watch everything I could. If I could get my eyeballs on Continental or Mid-South or NWA or BC All-Star or Internet, like I wanted to watch it all because I wanted to see what was going on. At that stage, it was you got what you could get from the after magazines, and that was it. So wait, now I can watch Pro Wrestling Plus with Ed Whalen and maybe get get my eyeballs on heading and loller. Okay, right. I want to see what's going on. So I never, I don't know. I don't understand the allegiance to initials. But then I think about people with their favorite teams or this or that, but I've always been the same with like hockey. I love the Maple Leafs, but I love hockey. So I'll watch the Boston Bruins against the Florida

the Panthers because I know it's going to be a great game. Yeah. Just the way I look at it. Yeah. I mean, you had this promo where you were basically like, you know, kind of like rallying up the audience, rallying up the, the locker room, basically saying like, we've got a, we've got a great thing here. Like, let's keep this going.

Where did that come from? More than anything, it was like, I felt like our locker room, which is a pretty young locker room. I felt like they needed to hear it because there's so much. negativity that gets thrown out there and I know social media is a thing that I never really had to encounter before that these young talent have to they don't have to but they do deal with it and I would imagine that could be a little demoralizing so being someone that's done this for as long as I've done it I just thought

it would be good for a locker room to hear like no it's a great thing this company being around is an amazing thing thing. And also within the industry, if you ask, people are going to be happy that there's companies flourishing, not just one that has a monopoly. Even when I was with WWA, I always said, now this is no good. There's no good for the industry to just be one place. And I still believe that. I believed it all through the years that we were the only place. And I was world champion. I was like, one place is no good. You know, imagine just going to to one restaurant for the rest of your life.

You're pretty old. Even if they've got a great menu. Sure. Yeah. Sure. Eventually, you've hit everything on the menu. It's like, okay, well, maybe I feel like I'm Mexican tonight. Yeah.

You know, I don't know. So I just, more than anything, to me, that was for the locker room. Was that a you idea or was that a Tony idea? That was a main idea, just because start to see or hear. And I try not to pay too much attention. So admittedly, I'll just. see little clips here and there. But even just in little clips, I'm like, man,

we got to, we got to try and throw some positivity around because there's so much negative crap out there. And I do feel like it's, it's a small outlier of fan base that really gets wrapped up in that. They're very loud. Yeah, yeah. And then I also think, like, man, if you're taking the time out of your, day to just put that out in the world, then probably aren't that happy in your own life.

No. You know, and I'm very happy in my own life. Do you have the coolest entrance theme of all time? I mean, I'm biased, but I'd like to think so. Yeah. I mean, music has always been so important to me. I love music. I always have, you know, if my brain to finger could have allowed me to play guitar well you know that would have been the second career choice you know because I wanted to be ace really as well as you know wanting to be Hulk Hogan so um music has always been very very fundamental to me and building whatever character I'm trying to

portray because to me it sets the tone it sets the the the mood with the audience it it I mean that first note and a crowd either comes up or they go hmm you know uh so for me it's always been very, very important. I've always been really hands on with it. You know, probably to an annoying point, I've been very hands on with everything. You know, whether it's my gear, whether it's my merchandise, whether it's the music, whether it's promo, stories, you know, I want to be in on it. Metallenghis is chef's kiss.

I mean, and it was just, again, it was happenstance. I met Mark. I'd gone to a Metallica, at the Citrus Bowl, Summer Sanitarium tour. And I met Mark Tramonti's brother Michael at the concert. He goes, you know, I want to come to Marks. I was like, sure. So I get to Marks.

He hands me a beer. I drop it in his foyer. I'm like, right. Nice to meet you. I got a neck collar on. I'm just like, oh. So, but then, you know, throughout the night, he goes, hey, I got an album. I was like, okay, right.

Let's hear it. So it was with him singing with scratch vocals. And, man, can I get tracked forward? when I come back. He was absolutely. Wow. And that was pretty miles singing on it. And, and the rest is kind of history to the point where when I was coming to AEW, I was like, hey, what you think? He was just, yeah, it's wherever you go, it goes with you. Wow. Yeah, which is, I'd like to think there's certain talent that when you hear a song or when you, you just know it's that person. Like when I'd hear Real American,

you know, or I'd hear, you know, LOD's music when they came to WWF or, you know, breaths or, you know, flares. You just, you just knew, right? I wanted that kind of experience for a fan where they knew. And then also the lyrics have kind of grown with me and become more important as the years have gone on with my actual story. So it actually, it means something to me. This episode is brought to you by Doer.

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Go there today for 20% off. In the week when you signed the AW contract before making your debut, did you have to track down the woman who says, you think you know me and have her re-recorded? is you think you know him so it was actually i got beth to do it so that's beth's voice yeah is she the original voice no no the original voice it was some girl when we filmed the vignettes in new york city and i'm wearing a trench coat randomly attacking people for your original debut way way back wow so um i was like okay well how do i what do we do we switch it up a little bit you think you know

him okay that'll be fun and then i just say hey beth i think you should do it. There's an extra layer of meaning. Yeah. So yeah, it's Beth. Wow. I think we did it in here on our iPhone and then I sent it to Mike Mansourri and before you know it. Wow. Yeah. What is the backstory behind you think you know him or you think you know me? Uh, honestly, that was when I first came in and I really had no idea how everything worked, you know, or how much voice I could have. So it was initially, we want you to be like Jim Morrison and you just recite poetry. And I was like, what? I don't get that at all.

Like, what is that? But they had this woman do the voiceover and essentially read the poetry that they wanted me to read. But when I read it, it just wasn't working. So that's really all there was to it. And then you think, you know, me was just something that was in there that they tacked on at the beginning. And what I really came to appreciate over the years is that was a female voice because so often with wrestling, it's so like testosterone-fueled and so aggressive and almost masculine. I love the fact that I had a feminine element to my entrance. I thought it added a different

dynamic to my character than just kind of being a rur guy all the time, you know? And I really, really wanted to keep that. That, to me, was important. You know, it's a, kick-ass heavy song but you have this this kind of beautiful voice that leads into it i thought that was i always you know i always enjoyed that and and i've always had like a good female fan base and i think that might be part of the reason why honestly i think also you know well when the guy liners days sure but those days have flown that's a great entrance and the brute entrance is so good yeah i mean been been very lucky with some great entrances over the years and and you know that brood music that coming up through the flames fire and and before we knew it like we didn't even realize we're all

like kind of grooving to it and then bouncing to it we didn't know until we'd see it back and go oh okay well that's a pretty cool element that we just naturally all did um then it was just a matter of not getting burned did you ever come close to getting burned yes yeah like a bunch of melted jackets it's because I'm wearing PVC trench coats that I get a hot topic. You know, and I'm like, as we're coming up, I'm like, oh, they feel so hot. And then I get to the bag and it'd be all bubbled. Gangrel said he stepped on it, burnt his foot? So it was coming up.

And he went to step off. His foot got stuck between the elevator and the stage. Well, it's an elevator going up. So his foot's jammed in there and he's over top of the flames. Yeah. It was a little sketchy at times, you know. And then it was built for one person. now you have three all crammed in there and it's not like you know we're small men it um it was

interesting when you talked about coming back as brood edge at russomania you know everyone was expecting to see getting gross yes how close were we to get a man i tried i tried and i just got shut down uh every every person shut it down wow why so and this isn't a knock on WWE, but I'd always get the, well, nobody remembers. Like, people remember. Wrestling fans remember. And I think wrestling fans want to be rewarded for remembering. And that's a way to reward them.

That's what I've always felt. You know, and I think, you know, you fast forward to me and Matt Cardona doing a cope open. And his music hits and he comes out, I mean, they remembered. Yeah. And so I've always been a fan of pulling in. things from the past and, you know, kind of integrating them into current things. But, but yeah, that was one I just, I kept getting shut down. I realized, okay, that's not a hill to die on because it ain't going to happen.

That would have been such a cool moment. I agree. I agree, you know, but again, you know, it's not my sandbox. So I just got to, you know, do what I can with what I'm given. Can we settle this once and for all? How tall was the ladder at WrestleMania 17 that you speared Jeff Hardy off? Because JR calls it a 20-foot ladder. A footer, right?

It's clearly not 20 feet tall. 12 or 15? I mean, if you're 6 foot 4, you're about halfway up the ladder when you go to climb it, so 12 feet might make sense. Yeah. I think I'm like four rungs down,

I think. And isn't each rung one foot? And there's 12 rungs on this? I mean, it probably felt very high. All I know is I was up there, and I was like, okay. You know, when you're up that high, the crowd still looked pretty tiny down there. You might have been 20 feet in the air, you know, the ladder on top of the ring.

I's no idea, but I know no one had ever done it before. So, yeah. And you hadn't even done it before, right? Because you can't. Could you practice it? I think we did it. We did it on Raw once when they decided that us High Wheel ladder match on Raw was a good idea. And that was kind of the first time we ever did it. And I think that predated that. I'm still not entirely sure. Like I said, it's kind of where did it happen, when did it happen? But I remember doing it on Raw.

And we hit it, but I landed like weird with a leg underneath me and really just trying to make sure Jeff landed flat. So by the time we did that, I think we'd done it once at least, I think. Rino tells this story of like the night before WrestleMania 17 and you guys were going over the match and he's like, oh, what you got to do is Bubba will just grab the ladder as Jeff's, you know, on it. And he'll start hanging,

which will give the momentum into the sphere. That was the wonderful thing when you get so many different talent and so many different brains. And there was, you know, myself, Jay, Bubba, D, Matt, Jeff, Amy, Spike, Wrighto. Michael Hayes. So you got 10 brains, which can also be difficult because everybody has an idea of how they think that should go or what should go here, what should go there. But for the most part, we all would come to the same agreement usually. And if we didn't, it was only because we all really cared about this thing and wanted to make it the best we possibly could. And I think that happens with creatives, where like whether it's a director and an actor, whether it's a writer and a director, would it, what a,

whatever it is. There's going to be times where you bump heads, but you always have the knowledge that it's just to try and put out the best product you can't. And we want to steal the show. There's been so many moments in your career that you can point to and go, that's a highlight, that's a highlight. Even if it's a promo, that's a highlight. Did you try things that you thought were going to be big? You thought would be moments and didn't work? I mean, generally, for the most part, it kind of worked out the way I thought it would. That's fantastic. But the judgment Day aspect. I knew it was going to be a bit of a struggle. And it was. But it was also a challenge. Because I'm like, okay, at this stage, can I be a heel with the fan base knowing the real story,

being retired for nine years, working to get it back, all of those things. Can you erase that from people's minds for this time frame. And, you know, it was starting to maybe work, but then Cody got hurt. Randy got hurt. And I got to call and said, well, we got to flip you. You're a baby face now. And it was at Hell on a cell, I think. It was Ria, Priest, and I, and that was the first time I was like, okay, they're starting to think they're starting to come around. and then the next night we split it up so uh but i but i also understood like okay it's baby faces are depleted you know i'm i'm the utility batter you know where you just felt like it needed more time it did it did because it was very abrupt you know and then also in looking back you had me

trying to turn heel on a j who had just turned baby face should have just let us be double baby face and let us do our thing. Yeah. And then from there, then if I lost at WrestleMania, now we can start to do the turn, and now it can make a little more sense instead of feeling so abrupt. But, you know, you get your marching orders

and you go, okay, let's make it work. Just off camera, but it's WrestleMania 24 behind you. You've got Undertaker's Gloves and there's an inscription on there. What does the inscription say? I think it's, you're the man, I think. And he has my kickpads. You know, we, we had a lot of fun working each other. There was a lot of trust, which, you know, to get Mark's trust, you know, because he was the undisputed locker room leader, you know, and to get him to trust you and know that what you're trying to do is for the betterment of the company, for the match, for the story, all of those things.

that's big, right? And then, you know, to get the main event, WrestleMania, and then to get the main event, WrestleMania with him, with the streak on the line, you know, and I'm coming out last. A lot, a lot of really, really big moments that I got to check off at WrestleMania 24. And that's also, a lot of people may not remember this.

That was supposed to be Flair's retirement match that night. Yeah. And you're on, I think it was four matches later. Yeah. That's a heck of a match to follow. Yeah. Sean and Flair. I purposely, I didn't watch the show.

I just stayed in my locker room and just from my tent because we're all in tents. And I could just smell that Snoop Dogg was around somewhere. And really just focused on what I needed to do that night, which was going to be a completely different story. And two performers at different stages of their career than what those two were. So I couldn't worry about that. I just had to focus on, okay, we're on last. There's a reason. How does that WrestleMania match, that WrestleMania moment,

compared to a few years earlier, that incredible match with Mick Foley? The one with Mick, I had a giant chip on my shoulder, you know, because I felt like I was being, at least in my mind, kind of pushed back from the main event scene. And I felt like finally I'd earned my stripes in my spot there. So that was a chance for me to kind of show everybody that's where I belong. And I knew Mick was the perfect person to help make that come of fruition.

And we both had agendas that night. Mine was I really wanted Mick Foley to get a WrestleMania moment. That was true. I felt like he deserved that and he'd be the first to say that he hadn't had that. So that was important for me. And when I have a mission to accomplish, I work better. And his mission was to solidify me as a main event guy and also to solidify me as someone that people might start looking at in a different light.

Like, oh, he is tough. Oh, even through all those TLCs and ladders, it was still like, long, long, blonde hair, you know, all those things. And so it felt like we bought. both needed something out of that. When you get two maniacs, both working toward goals, some brutal things can happen. So the tone, the mood was far different than it was with Taker.

Was the flaming table always part of the plan? It was part of my plan. And I've always said this. If you see something stupid that I do, chances are it was my idea, whether it's the AA off of the ladder through two tables, whether it's the flaming table, whether it's

chances are it was my stupidity. Yeah. I don't even have a good answer as to why. You know, I mean, obviously I'm a masochist on some level, but I think every pro wrestler is. But that's not something you can plan for. Like that's something you can

rehearse. Well, so yeah, you don't, you don't, rehearse that at all. And it like to the point where I didn't, it didn't even fully dawn on me until I was running toward the flames. I was like, I don't have a shirt on. And I'm diving face first into this thing. You know, Mick's got three layers on. He's going through back first. I mean, that sucks too. Don't get me wrong. But it wasn't until like I was making that leap. I was like, oh man, I've just got to bury my head into Mick here and hope for the best. You know, and still burned my arm, you know, burned a bunch of hair.

off, burn my knuckles. It just, you know, all I could smell was like burnt hair. And then as I'm crawling over, I looked at my arm was bubbling. All right. Not the wisest choice. But again, at that stage of my life, I was all about like, that was it. It was that job. And it was getting to the top of that job.

And yeah, yeah, that's usually when you're really hungry like that. that's when you can catch lightning in a bottle sometimes. There is a moment where you're on the receiving end of a big move, a big moment. It's the cage match with Matt Hardy and there's the leg drop onto you. And I don't know how you can prepare for that one either. I know how much that hurt Matt. He said he couldn't walk right for weeks after that. I mean, he's way up there and you've got to hope that he's going to land it, right?

And even with everything that him and I had been through, that was never a doubt in my mind. You know, we'd all worked each other so much. And we all had just natural chemistry with each other. And your pros, you know. So you just, you got to have a lot of faith in a person. You got to have a lot of trust in a person. And generally speaking, those moves are usually worse on the person doing them. Yeah.

You just got to lie there and just, okay. There was so much emotion leading into that program with Matt, with everything that had gone on in your professional or your personal life. I remember ordering that pay-per-view and being like, Matt Hardy is going to kill this guy. Like, Matt Hardy might actually, like, we might witness a murder television. How did you put that aside and just work?

Well, you know, we're here, right? Okay. So how do we try and pull some, positives out of a lousy situation and a lousy situation that that i made the bed right um and and that was really all you can do it's like okay we're here now let's try and you know and and also the companies wants to run with this well let's try and make a good good story out of this a good program out of this let's try and make some money out of this um because at that stage what else are you're going to do. So that's really what it boiled down to is like, okay, right, put the personal

aside and try and make some business out of this. And hopefully, hopefully on the tail end of it, we can both come out of it better in a perfect world. That doesn't always end up being the case, though. How long did it take till you were good again with Matt? I mean, honestly, it wasn't that long. I think kind of once we went through that and once we both realized, oh, okay, still the same guys and still have the same chemistry, still have the same everything. So, you know, I feel like the fan base took a lot longer to come around to the idea that we were okay than we did.

It was pretty quickly. And then you just got to move on. And then you fast forward and then you're in a new relationship with Beth and then it ends up, you know, look at the life you have now. That I feel like for fans makes it go, oh, okay. Like, yeah, this is a different thing now. Sure. And I mean, I'd like to think that everybody at a certain point can look back and go, man, I dropped the ball there.

Everybody's made mistakes. And mine just ended up happening on national television. What was your first date with Beth? So we had, it was edge appreciation night in Toronto. And it was kind of like, this is your life. I was almost embarrassed out there. But earlier on the day, we had started talking. And we had talked before, but we actually sat down and had a really nice conversation,

just randomly, you know, sitting at ringside. And then I started realizing how many similarities that we had. You know, she had trained in Toronto and she had trained with, you know, Ron Hutchison and wrestled the same dive bars in Parkdale that I wrestled in. And I had no idea of that. She just did it seven years after me. And there's a seven-year age gap. So we started talking, and then I reached out to Natty.

I was like, I didn't know Beth was that. You know, what's her deal? And that was really the start of it. And then she was still on the road. So we just end up talking like half the night. And then she came up here one day. and then we hit it off and kind of the rest is history. And then fast forward, gosh, 13 years later, whatever it is, two kids.

Yeah, a lot of life in that time. Did she feel in her heart of hearts that you could return to wrestling? No, no, I really don't think until I got that final go ahead from her room. Because she was there for the surgery, because she was there for, for, for, all over the prognosis and um we both had to wrap her mind around the idea like no this is done and then also like i said she was there when we would go out and for two hours get flat and you know like all of that so she she was there for every bit of that so she didn't she didn't think it was a possibility until i think she saw my mental shift i'm like uh-oh i think he's going to try this and i don't think

there's anything that's really going to stop them. But with that being said, no way I'm doing it unless she signs off. Yeah. And unless she feels comfortable with it because I'm a father and I'm her husband and I, you know, I got to, I got to be there. You know, so if there were any doubt, if there were any lingering, is this, you know, she wouldn't have signed off and I wouldn't. I just wouldn't. I think your biggest strength is your mindset. Like you're, you have this mindset of like when you set your mind to something, you do it. But for whatever, I think that is probably my strongest asset, too. You know, I just, I always feel like you can work toward what you want to work toward.

And you can get bogged down with all of the negatives because they're always there. Or you can focus on the positives because they're also always there. And I'll use those positives to help get done what I want to get done. instead of getting bogged down with, you know, the negative, I guess. So I got to tell you this story. In high school, I was the vice president of my student council, which meant I would host fashion shows and I would host talent shows. I just loved having a mic in my hand,

which has led to what I got to do now for a living. Now you don't have to hold them. That's right. Look at me. We have stands now. Moving on up. So I was such a big wrestling fan. My best friend of the time, Mark was as well.

I remember we were hosting a talent show and we got everyone to take their cameras out and we stole your line. We said, for the benefit of those with flash photography, we got everyone to take a photo of us on stage hosting a fashion show or talent show. Where did that come from? So that was a lot of what you saw Jay and I do with that.

It was me, Jay and Brian Gorts, just sitting down and having a similar comedic sensibility. and really just throwing stuff at the wall to see what would stick. And if the three of us laughed, we'd go, let's give a shot. Again, our sense of humor is a little different. And if you watch The Edge and Christian show that Tolleryx of Austin us years later, you start to realize where are our, oh, CCTV, I guess, maybe a little kids in the halls.

So, Bonte Python. Great Canadian reference. Yeah, I like that. I know, right? But Brian was very, very similar to us in that regard. So we, again, we'd just sit down. If it made the three of us laugh, we'd try it. And that was one of the things we came up with because the start of it was, I don't think we should come through the crowd.

If we're heels now, hey, who knows what somebody's going to do? You know, you might catch a left and what just happened, you know? So there was the safety aspect, but also like it just felt like we're not of the people anymore. We think we're above that. So how would we show that? And that was really the genesis of that. It was just, okay, but we'll still, because, okay, we get it, we'll still give you an opportunity to get a photo of us. And then it turned into, okay, how can we rag on the local sports team?

How can we, you know, just have some fun that way? And then it just took on a life of its own. Playing entrance themes on the kazoo was one of my favorite things ever. Yeah. Again, just stupidity. And basically creating our own vocabulary, like succitude and, you know, toolshed or, I mean, jump sthing. Ramma, ramification, ramma percussion. Ramma percussion.

Ram of percussion. There's a lot of that stuff where we'd just be on commentary and it would fall out. I just said it. But we had so much fun. That's probably the most fun that I had in WWF. I think you're also part of the most unintentionally funny moment in WWE history when Ray Mysterio is doing the pull-ups behind you guys. Yeah, which, you know, didn't see the light a day until I guess they aired, you know,

aired it at some point. And I mean, man, I just. just and the way he went down with it like he didn't try and he was just like oh boy here we go you know and he kind of in slow motion goes down there is uh i i couldn't hold it you know and then i think what's seen to say like golly g or something i like something so so like howdy-duty i just would like so you throw that on top and it was just comedy of errors it's hanging behind you, but I know that you don't like the rated R spinner belt. I just, I don't know.

Again, I think for me, I come from that, that, that time frame where the designs meant something, you know, and I just, I understood the, you know, the commercial appeal. But I, I feel like that was truly done just to sell titles. And it worked. And it worked. But I don't know. I just, as a world heavyweight champion, you walk out and something spinning on you, it just didn't, I don't know, to me, it just didn't fit.

You would create a drone design. Yeah. And when you presented that design to them, what was their? They said, well, we got another idea. And it was that. Well, what are you going to do? Then you're like, but I don't like this. So, again, not my sandbox, right?

So you just go, okay, well, cool. I still have, you know, an edge championship. And I think Rocky and Steve and John were the only three at that point. So yeah, still pretty damn cool. Do you know what the one piece of merchandise that you've made the most residuals off of is? No idea. It might be that. It might be.

Maybe it's a t-shirt, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, there's so many. You have so much merch. There's a lot of stuff out, you know. You know, when I saw bed sheets at one point, really? Like, what kid is buying it? bed sheet. I mean, what kid isn't? Come on. I was the heel at the time and everything. I'm like,

nobody's buying this or like box or shorts. Like, come on. But sure. Yeah. Were you surprised that WWE hadn't trademarked rated our superstar? They had tried, but you can't trademark it because the Motion Picture Association owns it. Oh, wow. So I can use it. Yeah. But we can't, we can't trademark it. Can't, we can't trademark it. Can't copyrighted. So that I thought, well, that's great because that can come with me wherever I go. And I love that nickname. You know, even if my character isn't portraying those things, to me, it doesn't matter. Like, macho man's always going to be macho man, no matter what he's doing, right? Yeah. To me, the radar are superstars that same thing. And it just rolls off the tongue.

And it just, you know, when I started having people come up to me and say, hey, rated R. I'm like, okay, it hit. Yeah. Okay, people now equate me with that. And the way Tony Chimwell announced it, also added another layer to it. Absolutely, absolutely. When you heard that for the first time with the voice cracking. So I was busting his chops, right?

Because John and I are working every night, right? And be, you know, World Heavy Chamber, and then John would come in a year, and like just a giant ball of phlegm for this, John. And I looked at him. I went, seriously, man, it did, like, give me a little treatment. I want to hear it. And that was it.

That was the voice cracking. And then it just became a thing. So the voice crack was intentional? No. Oh, no. It happened by accident. You know, every once in a while, the voice would crack. And I would, I loved it.

I thought it was hilarious. And then the fan base, you know, picked up on it. And they would start to say it, too. And it would just be kind of. became its own thing, another happy accident, right? It felt like he should have been there for that final match in Toronto and WWE. Yeah, yeah. You know, and we threaten we're going to do it at some point here, and we will.

We will at some point. Does Tony know this? Yeah, yeah. He's ready to go? He's ready. He's ready. Yeah, he's waiting. It's like, so what about?

Not yet. What about now? Not yet. When you look back on everything and the injuries you sustained and triple neck fusion, would you have worked in a different style? If you could go back to the start of your career and give that version of Adam some advice. Well, you know, when I started,

the climate in the era that I started, it was different. You know, it was, you know, there was, like, everybody was massive. You know, it was just giant human beings doing this. All right. And I'm six four and two 30, right? Okay.

So I was kind of considered, kind of in between or maybe a small guy, right? So I had to figure out what it was going to do to get noticed. What did we have to do? What did I have to do? I didn't feel comfortable in a microphone. All right. So that's going against me.

What do I got here? And I thought, okay, well, if I always kind of looked at my style similar to Barry Windham's. And I just thought, okay, well, I can do some different things that maybe guys are going to be doing. And is that the style of a main eventer? No. But I'm not going to be a main inventor unless I kind of kick open the door. And then we found the Hardee's, they found us.

And we knew that we would bring something that nobody else was going to be bringing. And with the first tag team ladder match, we had a blank canvas to create whatever we wanted. And it felt like, OK, there's our foot on the door. And then when I went solo, I realized that I needed to change my style and I needed to make it uglier. And I needed to, I still needed to be the guy, though, that took some crazy bumps, you know, especially when I turned heel because that's part of the gig.

That's part of the job. I don't think I'd take it back. But, you know, it'd be interesting if I started my career now because now I'd be one of the bigger guys. so maybe I could take less risks and maybe just be more of the catch. I don't know. The latter match is with the Hardys. Yeah, that gets you, the foot in the door, like you said.

But what's the moment for you that makes you the main eventer? Honestly, I feel like the match with Mick. I feel like that's the one that kind of solidified. Oh, he's not going anywhere. Right. I think that was the one. You know, I think that that, if there was any doubt going into that one,

because I had that little taste of it, and they saw that it could work, but they had their plans. And that to me was, okay, now we got another guy. And then you fast forward throughout the years, and I became one of their go-toes of,

okay, well, we can give it to him and everything should be okay. And that's a great place to be coming from, because you know, you can be dependent on, as one of the soldiers that's going to pull a cart.

when you look ahead to whenever the end of your career ends up being, it's got to be Christian for the final match, right? Man, there's so many people, you know, it's like, gosh, you know, or is it, hey, my teaming against an FTR or you're in Bucks, or is it Kenny Omega, or is it Will Osprey, or is it John Moxley? Like, there's a lot of different opportunities, you know, and also who might get the best boost out of it. You know, I have to look at that, too.

This could be a whole storyline. Who retired Adam Copeland? Yeah, you could. You know, and when I retire this time, that's it. You know, I'm, there's no, there's no coming back. I won't be of an age that I could come back. You know, it's, when I retire this time, I truly, I'm, I'm going to come home and be dad and, uh, occasionally act and walk my dogs.

There's still, there's still going to be rumors. though. Yeah, yeah, I guess that's, well, plus every year the Royal Rumble comes around. Do wrestlers ever really retire? And I always told myself, well, I am that guy until, again, fast forward and wait, it's possible. I got to give it a shot then. You know, there's the challenge of that. I got that out of my system with this because I did it. I fought to get this back. I got it back. Now I can end it on my terms instead of being told how it's going to end. that was that was big to me and that was part of the reasoning for for making this this happen was okay i want to i want to be the one that calls that i don't want to be told that

yeah you have you have a date in mind i don't i don't i think i have about a year and a half left right now um a lot of business to try and get done in that time a lot of people i want to work in that time um and you know i look at it already and i think in the six months I've been there, I think I'm close to 20 matches already. And I think in my entire time with WWE on this last one, I think like 27 or 28. So I'm getting some stuff in and challenging myself. Like if I look at this and it's like I worked Suzup, Minora Suzuki, word Penta, I worked Griff Garrison, like Daniel Garcia, Lee Moriarty,

obviously the run with Christian. Like it's been all over the place, which is really fun. Really, really fun and challenging. And again, challenges. That's what gets me up in the morning. Is there like, is there something you go back to? I mean, what a career it's been. Is there something you go back to of like,

if it wasn't for this, then this doesn't happen? And if it isn't for this, then this doesn't happen. I don't put that much thought into it. You know, I really just kind of, once it's done, it's done. It's in the rear view. And, you know, what's happening right now? That's what wrestling kind of has to be because if you're not living in the right now, you're going to get hurt.

And it kind of forces you. I think any, you know, whether you're a loser, whether you're like a downhill ski or a ski jumper, I don't know. Like if you're not in the moment, things could go really, really wrong. Now, it's not to say that I don't have ideas going forward, but the ones in the past, I just, they're done. you know what's a sense of dwelling on them you know uh it's the same with a role on a tv show i'll watch it back once and then okay what's the next one you may be the first wwee hall of

fame where i've met that doesn't wear the ring yeah i mean wearing the wedding ring makes sense i got yeah um i'm not much of a jewelry guy you know and and they uh uh beth keeps track of it for me what's the inscription on the inside of your hall of fame ring say because i think you can put whatever you want on the inside, right? I don't know. Wow. I don't know. I think I have looked at it a couple times, but I don't, I don't know. And it's an honor. You know, don't give me wrong. You know, I complete, you know, it's awesome and it's amazing that they thought of me in that regard. And it's pretty cool to be able to say, but I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know. I don't, I don't really put a lot of energy into that kind of stuff.

What's the biggest thing you think you miss from Canada? There's two Canadians hanging out here in these United States. Let's see. I always say Swiss chalet. Swiss chalet is pretty big. Harvey's. Harvey's. I love chalet sauce.

Oh, the chalet sauce. And, yeah, I mean, Tim Hortons. Oh, of course. Yeah, you know, Timmy's double, double. Nobody knows what we're talking about unless you're from Canada. It's two cream, two sugar. Yeah, double double. Every time I go back, Jack Astor's.

Jack Astors, Boston Pizza. Oh, Boston Pizza. Boston Pizza in Canada. But, I mean, I guess more than anything, it's just, it's just a feeling. Yes. You know, when I land in Canada, I still feel like I'm home. Yeah. And this is home.

But I think, I don't know if you're, You're an American and you live in Argentina. Sure. Probably still call yourself an American. Yeah. And I still consider myself a Canadian. I always will. Anytime I go to a sporting event and they're playing a Canadian team and they sing the national anthem,

they sing O Canada, I'm like, oh, I don't hear that that often anymore. Like, it means a little bit more. And I think it means more as you age too. And you start to understand the importance of certain things and how it connects with you and how you connect to it and how all of those, the blue, the blue, of where you grew up is ingrained in you and the sensibilities and the just like I remember my some of my first memories were watching the Leafs with my uncles and my grandfather and the basement and so when I watch hockey now it kind of brings me back to that place and then I watch the

Canadian feed because my buddy Mike is the the voice of hockey night in Canada and I want to see Ron McLean and Kevin BX and Kelly Rudy and the you know Elliot Friedman and hear those voices. And we just lost Bob Cole. Bob Cole was the soundtrack to my childhood along with, you know, mean Gene and Jesse Ventura. Yeah, yeah. There's something about those moments, right?

Like, all the time I talk about being at WrestleMania 18s, seeing Brock Hogan. You were there, WrestleMania 6. Yeah. Yeah, in Toronto. And then fast forward all these years, your main event in WrestleMania. Like there's something about being able to like,

when it zooms out to that wide shot, you can go, that's the section of a city. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That day, I remember looking down at where I sat for WrestleMania 6 and going, huh, wow. 12 years later. Wow. How bad, Adam.

It's pretty cool. So I have moments like that still, you know, or now with AEW, it's usually when I get in there with somebody like a young guy and I just, I can feel their, their tension, you know, and understand where they're coming from because if I got in with a, you know, I don't know, Rick Martel or a Badner's Brown, I'd always be like, oh, those first couple of times, I'd be a little tense and like, I want them to think I'm good or I'm okay at this. And that's really fun to get in there and also see a young Callant's eyes start to like, oh, oh, wow.

That to me is just that that's part of the joy of this, is helping. a younger talent and it doesn't even necessarily need to be a younger talent. You know, it could be somebody who's been around a little bit, but they still experience something different when they're in there with you. That's super cool to me. You're also wrestling people who, like, might have been in diapers when you started your career. Yes. Thank you for that reminder. I mean that in the kindness way. No, I had, you know, there was over the years, I'd have guys come out to the airport and they go, man, I grew up watching. I'm like, how old are you? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, 33. I'm like, well, I'm 33. So did you really grow up watching me? But then I had to start

accepting that fact. And what was really strange this year is I started having teenage girls come up to me again. I was like, what is it going on until it was like, are you Aries? And I was like, oh, oh, yeah, I played Aries, right. It's a whole different fan base that it has, you know, and I've had grandparents and full families come up and go, we watched it together. And so that, that took a little bit of getting used to again because it hadn't been since like the late 90s when I'd have teenage girls come up and, and, wow. Say, are you? Um, so yeah, yeah, that's, that's been, uh, that's been fun to do. This has been fun. And thank you so much for making the time. Yeah. And for inviting us here to your beautiful house and inviting us in here.

I end every conversation talking about gratitude because it's such an important part of my life. What are three things in your life, Adam, that you're grateful for as we sit here right now? My family. Healthy girls. And then that my marriage. So those all go together. My mom and how she raised me and what she instilled me and what I saw her do to make sure that I could chase what I wanted to chase and was all. always supportive of it and in turn instilled in me that if my girls want to try this, that and the other, I'm going to support them. How can I not after doing what I did and had that support? And my friendships, you know, and how supportive my friends have been of this whole

path that I've chosen. Just so happens that my best friend is also doing it too, you know. And I think we've we've helped keep each other sane over the years in a lot of insane instances and climates and uh so i think i guess more than anything i is just the relationships and and it's the relationships that i have in a w it's the relationships that i that i have in wwe um the support system i love you know because because you you don't do it unless you got a good support system so we started the interview talking about it but this is one of your secret weapons pure playing that code CVV, you'll save you a few dollars on it,

but this has been one of your secret weapons to look like this when your age begins with a five. Yes. Impressive. You're a better shape than I am. I just hit 40 last year, you used to have 50 last year.

Yeah. I would aspire to look like this when I'm 50. Yeah, it's just keep moving, right? As long as you keep moving, then I don't cease up. When I stop moving, that's one body goes, hey.

Motion is lotion. Yes. That's what they say. Yes. I've heard that quite a few times. I've said it quite a few times over the years, especially through my 40s and now into my 50s. Just keep moving and keep finding those things that inspire you.

Just because you're 50 doesn't mean that those things run out. It's just new things. It's just different things. Hence AW. With the amazing career you've had, just like thank you for still being who you are. Like, thank you for at the end of the day, at your core, still just being a good Canadian boy. I mean, you know, I again, back to my mom, right? I was taught have manners and work hard.

And I tell the girls the same thing. If you got manners and you work hard, you blow the doors off the world. You really can. And leave a good track record behind you, you know, and there's going to be mistakes. You're going to fall flat in your face. I certainly have. But you pick yourself up, right? Okay, I learned something.

And if you put that in you, you, you know, your bat utility belt going forward, you should be okay. Thank you. This was great. Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Wow. What a guy. What a conversation. And I couldn't think of a better guest for episode number 600. So I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. And man, if he only has a year and a half or so left before he retires, who do you think that final match are going to be a guest?

It's got to be Christian, right? I feel like it just makes sense. I also feel like an interview with Christian has to happen at some point. That also makes sense. I've never done one with him. I did meet him when I was 16 years old at an XFL event in Toronto with Kurt Angle and Trish Stratus. So it'd be very full circle to chat with him now. Also, Adam is just such a good guy.

Like, when we were wrapping up this interview, I went to call an Uber to head back to the hotel. And Asheville's not like a huge city, so not a ton of Uber's in the area. And the closest Uber was 25 miles away, 25 miles away. And it was going to take, what, 25 minutes or 30 minutes to get there. And he's like, oh my gosh, like, that doesn't make sense for you to wait that long. What? Why don't I just give you guys a ride back to your hotel? Like, what?

Are you serious? Yeah, of course. I'll give you a ride back. Like, hop in the truck, let's go. So sure enough, he drove us to the hotel, which was like, I don't know, not even 10 minutes away. chat it even more on the drive there. And then just to like put the cherry on top of how great of a guy he is, drops us off of the hotel.

And as he's driving away, he does the beep, beep. And then the wave out the windows, he drives away. Like, who does that anymore? What a fantastic guy. Love this conversation. And Pure Plank is the real deal. So head to gopureplank.com. Use that promo code, CVV.

You'll save yourself a nice solid, amount of money when you do that. I have it. I'm actually looking at it right now. It's on the floor of my office. Every time I walk in here, I set the timer, I do some planks, you know, like both hands on the ground. Then I do them on the side, each side. So it's a part of my every day. And I know that you'll love it when it'll be a part of your every day as well. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this. And let us know what stood out for you the most from this one. I still can't believe it's episode number 600. Tag us on social media.

He's at Rated R. Cope. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And I've said this quote before, but I think it bears repeating because it's just such a powerful quote and actually ties in a lot to the whole conversation of him dropping us off at the hotel

and being the very kind Canadian that he is. It's from Maya Angelou. I've learned that people will forget what you say. People will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. And isn't that so perfect for a pro wrestler? You may not remember the exact words of a promo.

You may not remember every move that happened during a match, but you will absolutely remember how that superstar, how that wrestler made you feel. Whether it's good or bad, you'll always remember that. Be great, be grateful. Hope you enjoyed this one. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. it's Ask CVV number 30.

So send those questions in either using the hashtag AskCTVV or through that Q&A section on Spotify or send them in on email. CVV at chris fanfleet.com. See you tomorrow. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes.

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe. the air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spit

Spitfire of Sports Smack. Ticket man job, but get up in here. The Jim Rome show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.