Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Anthony Bowens On The Acclaimed, Billy Gunn, "Scissor Me" Catchphrase, Max Caster's Rapping

Episode Date: January 20, 2023

Anthony Bowens (@bowens_official) is a professional wrestler with All Elite Wrestling and is part of the tag team "The Acclaimed" with Max Caster. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about signing with AEW, how Tony Khan paired him with Max Caster and created The Acclaimed, what he has learned from working with Billy Gunn, his plan to reunite Billy and Chuck, how he came out as gay to his family and friends, being an LGBTQ role model, what winning the AEW Tag Team Championships meant to him, why he decided to move to Los Angeles, his YouTube channel with his boyfriend called "Michael & Anthony" and much more! Subscribe to Michael & Anthony on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/@michaelanthony7105 For more information about Chris Van Vliet and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blin. Oh, baby, here we go. Back with you on another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. So good to see you here, my friends. Hope that 2023 has been treating you well so far. Crazy to think that January is more than halfway done already.

We're already three weeks almost into this new year. Wow. everybody loves the acclaimed. Think about it. They are the hottest tag team in pro wrestling right now. And it's amazing when you hear Anthony Bowens tell the story of how they were just kind of thrown together by Tony Kahn. And I mean, they've made this work in a big, big way. Look at what they've turned this into with their entrance and Billy Gunn and everyone now everywhere screaming, scissor me.

And Anthony's got such a great story. it was such a pleasure to be able to sit down with him in person to have him share about his professional life and also his personal life. So please share this episode with someone who you know is going to love this and take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening, tag us so we can share this out and retweet it and re-story it on Instagram.

He's at Bowens underscore official. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and Casey Johnson 487. What did Casey Johnson 487 say? This is a review from Apple Podcasts. The best. I like this podcast more than is comfortable. That is a lot. That is a lot, Casey.

Thank you for taking the time to leave those words on Apple Podcasts. I'll read one review on every single episode. So if you haven't left a review yet, please leave a few words. If it's your first time here, first of all, thank you. And if you could please do me the honor of, of hitting that follow button or that subscribe button, it would mean so, so much to me. All right, ladies and gentlemen,

it is one half of the AEW tag team champions. Please welcome Anthony Bowens. Okay, thank you so much for coming by. Of course. Really hoping that you'd bring the championship. I mean, I slipped my mind. It was on the display case. I was shining it up, and then I ran out.

I didn't want to get it dirty. I feel like you must wear it everywhere, right? Of course. Yeah, you got to wear it everywhere. Up and down, whatever you call it, Sunset Boulevard. Sure. Hollywood Boulevard anywhere, really. What does that championship mean to you?

It means a lot. It means a whole lot. I mean, Max and I came into the company in October of 2020 and less than two years later around the top of the tag division, around the top of the world. You know, it's a moment that I had been working for. Obviously, I didn't know if I won the tag team titles, but winning a championship with a major company with all the hard work, all the sacrifices that went into,

you know, becoming a professional wrestler and getting to this level to have that moment. It's awesome. It's cool. You guys are like the epitome of homegrown talent in AEW. And I think really the first ones to have gold in that company, which I think must mean so much more for you. Yeah. And I hope that we can be at least like an example for other talent that comes in to see that there's, you know, light at the end of the tunnel, not that there isn't, but just like, hey, how can I get to the top of this company? How can I really achieve something? So I hope the blueprint that we set is a good example for other homegrown talent.

Like it's from debuting on Dark in front of nobody, by the way, which is very hard, to now being AEW tag team champions. It's like, what an amazing story that is. Well, thank you. It's crazy. I still haven't really processed it. And I don't think I ever will until everything's over with because it's usually what's, Like, it's usually what's the next thing.

What can we do that's entertaining next? So it's hard to really sit back and soak it all in, but I'm trying to enjoy it as much as possible. Have you gone back and rewatched your debut at any point? I can't. I'm saying, like, I'm dead serious. I cannot watch it because it was very awkward. And basically that was the same day that we had a meeting with Tony.

That was the first time we ever met, like Tony, face to face. And that's when he told us that we were going to be the acclaimed. And he put us, that was basically our tryout match. It was against best friends. And we didn't know what the acclaimed was. We just knew that Max wrapped. And Cody told me, the only piece of information I was given was from Cody.

And he said, just whatever discaster says, it's the craziest, best thing you've ever heard in your entire life. That was the only thing I got. And I had to figure out, you know, who I was. under the umbrella of the acclaimed. But two hours later, after meeting Tony, I had no idea what that was. So we came out. There was no theme music.

So everything was just, I guess, a cappella. He did the rap, and I don't know what I'm doing. I'm like, that was a good one. Yeah. It was terrible. I will never,

I'll watch the match. The match was great, but I will not watch the entrance. It's so interesting because you guys, and this is the epitome of great tag teams, too. It's like two people who really don't seem to have a in common, but you put them together and there's this real chemistry. Your characters feel like

they are on complete other ends of the spectrum. Well, I'll stop you there because I don't think we're characters. I think we are true, like who we are. They're castor's a rapper. Caster likes to push buttons, whatever you see on television, that's Max Caster. For me, like, obviously I don't run around, you know, town screaming the acclaimed have arrived, but there's a part of me that has... You should start. There's all different parts of make up Anthony Bowens. And by nature, I am an introverted person. I'm kind of like the guy leaning on the wall at a party observing as opposed to being the center of attention.

But there is a part of me that is, I guess, crazy. And I unleash that part of me when we have our entrance. And Max is rapping. And I just let loose and have fun. So I think everything you see is authentically us, which is the reason why it's resonating so well with people. What do you think Anthony Bowens was before Tony Connors? put you guys together as the acclaimed?

Well, I was on the independence doing the five to a player. That was more of like a gimmick, I would say. And it took me a while to kind of figure out what that was. And as I was just finding my groove in terms of that character. That's a baseball term because you play baseball growing up. Five to a player is a baseball term. Anthony Bowens, the five to a player was the perfect combination of power, athleticism, intelligence, the look, and the it factor.

You have that right now? Oh yeah, I still have elements. You're still the five-to-a-player. Absolutely. Just don't say it. But there I was like, that's when I felt more like a character. I wasn't really authentically myself, even though that does describe, you know, what I did career-wise. And I was just getting the ball rolling on that.

And then the acclaimed happened. So I kind of had to push that away, figure out what the acclaimed was. And I guess I was still that guy when we first started, which is why I feel like I kind of flew under the radar in terms of, like, personality. Because back then I was still very... cautious and reserved and allowed too much of that introverted part of me to kind of seep over to my, I guess, career side of things. Meanwhile, castor so charismatic and anything less than next to him just, you know, obviously would be like, well, you can't compare to Castor, he's so charismatic.

But when I really started just let loose and, you know, find the different elements of me to put on the screen and also have the opportunity to speak, I was able to show that, you know, I'm a very well-rounded performer, you know. I can wrestle, I can be funny, I could cut a promo, I can do all these things, which is, I think, also a huge part of why we, you know, the acclaim took a step up because now we're both shouldering the load. Like, we're both putting a ton into our presentation and what we, what people see every single week. But one of the best things about you guys as a tag team is the crowd reaction. From the second your theme music hits, to every disc that Max says, to what you guys do in the ring,

how difficult was that when there was no crowd reaction for the first few months? It was very hard, at least for me, because I am, and this ends up being my problem with, when I'm doing auditions for like TV and film stuff, it's very hard for me to replicate the feeling of something when nothing's there. Some people are very good at that. But I need the audience. I need some something to, I guess, bounce back with. Well, they say that acting is reacting.

Yes. And it's hard when you're reacting to a white wall. Yeah, and there's just a table they're talking. Like, put me on the set and give me the script. And then I will show you everything that I could do while auditioning is hard for me. So I like to think that it almost felt like auditioning in these pandemic matches because you're firing up and there's just an empty dailies place or you're screaming the acclaimed have arrived to nobody. And you can tell the difference between my delirical. of it in front of a crowd as opposed to back then.

I can't even watch some of those entrants. Speaking of, you know, watching old stuff, I can't watch any of those old entrances now that I think about it because I just hated the way I guess delivered the line because there was just nothing there. Well, to be fair, nobody's going back to really anything from the pandemic era and going, oh, that's iconic, except for maybe the stadium match, but like, you know,

but other than that, it's like, wrestling needs a reaction. In the same way that, like, comedy needs that crowd, reaction so that we know like oh we love this so yeah i'm grateful to have you know every time with the sirens hit people lose their minds because they they want to hear what castor has to say um because you never know what he's going to say that's the beauty of him having a live microphone um we hit on just about everything which seems to make people upset with certain things but it's just like if it's news like we don't operate within the realm of we have to live in a bubble of just our company. If it's news, if it's out there, if it happened, it's up for grabs and, you know,

obviously if it's tasteful. But, you know, we will touch on anything. And that's the way it's going to continue to be. So get used to it. Do you think there's been times when maybe he's pushed the envelope too far with what he's said? Well, he, we try to tow the line as best as we can, because obviously there's, you know, there is a line that you can cross sometimes. but we like to be edgy. I mean, that's the only, actually, that was the only other direction we were given was just be edgy.

Because there was a missing element to that, I guess, on the program. So they wanted this presentation of that little edge to it. So we took it almost literally. Does Max tell everybody else what he's going to be doing? No, no, no. And that's the beauty of it. Because we want authentic reactions.

If he says something snippy and you get pissed, that's, you get that camera shot that makes the match so much better because this guy's pissed at what he said. Wow. So we try to make sure that whoever is listening is not around us and we don't want them to hear anything. So when he's telling you like, I think I'm going to go with this, are you like, dude, I don't know, okay, I don't know if we can even say that. There's a lot of examples where I'm just like, okay, I don't want to say I'm an editor, but I basically what I'll do is I'll scan Twitter and I'll see what. what like what the trends were. What are people talking about?

We'll have a team meeting. I'll present it to him. He'll present what he found. And then we kind of go through, you know, what could we use? What can't we use? And a lot of times, you know, he's, he's like, let's use everything. I'm like, no, no, no, no. We can't.

And then, you know, he's the, it's his rap. It's his lyrics. It's ultimately up to him what he wants to do. I can, you know, give him as much advice as possible. but ultimately it's his decision because that's his thing. I don't want to step on his toes. I do my thing. He doesn't want to step on my toes.

And I think that our dynamics really good. We communicate with each other. I talk to him every single day. I was just chatting with him before we came here to figure out what we want to do this week. And I think that's part of why we've become so successful so quickly is that we trust each other. We communicate with each other. And we had the natural on-screen chemistry as it is and rapport with the fans picked up on. So it's just a perfect package, in my opinion.

But you talk about scanning Twitter. There's been so many times where you guys will have your entrance and your match. And then something starts trending on Twitter because of what Max said during the entrance. And I'm like, oh, man, like I never would even imagine that that thing is trending now, but you guys make it happen. Well, even on the flip side of things where stuff happens and then immediately we or him start trending, like, what have a claim going to say now? because they want to hear our take on what's happening in the world or what's happening professional races. And that's fun.

We wanted to be different. We wanted to do things differently than everybody else. And we wanted to create an experience that everyone looks forward to every single week. Because now they can hear the rap. They can go, oh, and hear the this is. They can get excited when I yell the city. They can chant with me. Everyone loves the acclaim.

The acclaim have arrived. Cisar me, Daddy Ass. I'm realizing how many catchphrases we have. Keep going. It's great. You know, listen. Like, there's so many different things. And then we could scissor people. It's like the perfect amount of crowd interaction to have fun with.

Yeah. Billy Gunn being part of what you guys are doing has been, I think, great for you guys. Even better, though, for Billy Gunn. Like, he is more relevant and popular now than he's been in like 20 years. Billy has been a big part of our presentation. And honestly, that whole dynamic we had, with him and his kids was the perfect storm to lead to everything that happened. Because I was hurt at the time and I was hurt.

Caster was just having singles matches. We'd fluctuate back and forth between TV and dark. And the same thing was happening with the gun club. And I'll be honest with you. Before they ruined everything and they became selfish pieces of shit, we were pretty good friends with the gun club. Like we had a good dynamic. We had a good rapport.

We would hang out before the show and like laugh about the most ridiculous of things. And Castor was the one that said, hey, I think we should do something with these guys. I don't know what because we were having so much fun together. And one day I was sitting on the beach. It was very relaxed. And I just came up with this way to put us together. And I needed a reason to be on television with my injury. And we could do this thing where we all come together.

We can do it, you know, on dark. It doesn't matter. We just want to do something and prove that we are useful to the TV show that we can eventually be on dynamite every single week. And we started doing it. And then the people loved it. And they started picking up of the dynamic between me and Billy, him pushing me in the wheelchair.

And then one day, it was probably about five minutes before we went out to, I was on a rampage. It was, I think it was a Battle Royal and Rampage. And I was sitting in the wheelchair and I was giggling to myself because I was trying to figure out a way to end our entrance where, because Max would rap, I would get the crowd to yell ass boys, but I didn't have an ending. And I just giggle to myself. And I thought, I think I'm just going to say, scissor me daddy ass. I didn't. I don't know why that popped into my head. But I started laughing.

Literally me like sitting in the wheelchair in guerrilla. just like laughing at it and then I didn't tell anybody. I think I told Billy it was like, I think I'm going to say, scissor me dead ass and then hit me with the scissors. He didn't say anything. I just remember he just smiled him and he went and he walked away. And that was it. Five minutes later, I went out and I screamed it on Rampage.

I came back. I looked around. No one said anything to me. I was like, okay. So I guess that was okay. And then it was trending and then I started to see the signs and that's when you know it's caught on. That's when you know what, yeah.

It was like, I got to say this every single week. To people know it's. And then Gun Club ruined everything and decided to, you know. Do people know what Scissor Me means? Yeah, it's a sign of friendship. Yeah. If you watch National Scissoring Day on Dynamite, you would have known that sizzering is a sign of friendship.

Yeah. I feel like this is the modern day sucket where, like, you could know what it means. You could just be like, ah, it's a fun thing to say with a fun motion and we'll just, you know, we'll do it. The double meaning of this, I think, is, it's brilliant. Well, thank you. And again, I think that is the beauty of the dynamic between Castro and I, because it's a little bit of, hey, I thought of these ideas. He thought of these ideas. We collaborated on them together and they worked and some things just happened. Like the scissor itself was, like again, when we first started, he was very pedal to the metal and I was very reserved and both of them did not work. So we ended up evening each other out in a very good way. But in this particular instance, it was a dark. I did the acclaimed A symbol. And it's on video, too.

You could see my genuine reaction. Just to rib me, he came up from behind, and he just started scissoring me. And I went, like, what are you doing? We're going to get fired. And then I think he did it a couple more times. They asked us to stop. But then it got to the point where we're like, we need to kind of be renegades and just kind of do us. And we just started doing it again.

and then I started getting a little bit more ridiculous with it with the motorboating and all the other kind of stuff and it just started to catch on. Do you remember your reaction the first time you heard the crowd saying, Oh, scissor me, daddy. Yes. Yeah, it was like that weekend, we had something to prove because a lot of people were like, great, the acclaimant on the show,

but like this is a random match, there's no build, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that nonsense. And we're like, well, let's just, show them that this is a very, this is going to be a banger of a match and show them that we can wrestle and show them we can put on a paper view level performance. And we always knew that

Chicago crowds are great, but we didn't know that it was going to be the environment that it was because we got out there. And yeah, I think you could see it on my face at one point. I'm wrestling swerve down to the ground and I almost forget that I'm in the match because I hear them singing and I'm like, what are they saying?

And I hear it and I'm like, okay, like this is cool. and they just kept going and kept going. And, you know, I banged up my knee in the match and people connected with that. And then all of a sudden this incredible story was told and people were just going absolutely crazy for the match itself.

And any time we would scissor, anytime we would scissor Billy. And we got, like I said, we got National Scissoring Day out of it, which was trending the moment I woke up. It's so ridiculous. I love it. Wishing each other a happy national scissoring day. I'm like, this is crazy.

Yeah, it's so ridiculous. It's amazing. Your reaction, especially backstage after you won the championship, it was so authentic. And I feel like everybody could relate to that if they've ever been told they can't do something. And I think that that really resonated with people. Sure, yeah. It was, I knew I would have to kind of talk afterwards, and I didn't know what emotional state I would be in. Like, I thought if this were ever happened, I would cry in the ring because it was just so, I would be so happy.

But I just smile. I couldn't help, but just smile. Because hearing the crowd reaction to it, they exploded. My friends and my family were there. My boyfriend flew in when the confetti went off. Somehow within the sea of how many thousands of people were there, I look up and I saw my dad cheering, which is like such a cool moment. And I get, I have to, like, stop myself because I get teary eyes. thinking about like that's my favorite part of the night actually um but i knew at some point i would have

to speak and i wanted it to be authentic and you know i just started talking and that that's what came out and i hope that people whatever they're struggling with can use that as an example of overcoming and being having the the mental toughness um having the the resilience to fight through whatever that they may be going through to come out on the other side, you know, positively and happily. Because I do believe if you don't, you know, allow yourself to like get consumed by everything

and keep fighting that you will come out better than you were. I've had Fred Rosser on the show a few times. He's a good friend of mine. Do you remember when Darren Young came out? Yes. And what your reaction was to that? So I don't remember what year was. I'm not sure.

It was like 2012? I wasn't in wrestling then, but I did keep an eye in it to see, you know, what the response would be because you just, you didn't know. There was a very, very scary time when it comes to, you know, thinking about what you want to do with your life and then you're harboring this, this heavy secret that you feel like is going to absolutely destroy your life. So you do kind of keep tabs on, like, what's going on. There weren't many people out there that I can relate to that I felt, you know, like this person, like, looks like me or this person. Like, I didn't have that kind of representation that I completely related to. And, you know, Fred was one of those people for a while. And I don't think it was the company handled it quite well, in my opinion. And that didn't give me any kind of, you know, hope that, hey, like, here's this guy. He came out. He took his brave step. And now he's, you know, super successful in the company. Just kind of felt like they didn't do it.

anything with him. Yeah. And that was, I felt horrible for him and also for me. It was like, I don't, is this what I would have to look forward to if, you know, I decided to get into wrestling and did decide to pursue my dream and then I did come out. But I thank him for taking that step because it was probably very, very, very, very hard to do. He talks about how it wasn't something he planned. I don't know if you remember, but it's TMZ caught him in an airport and said, oh, how would

you react if someone in the locker room was gay? And he's like, oh, well, actually, I'm gay. And they just kind of had a conversation about it. And it was just like totally spur of the moment. And he told me, he's like, as soon as that interview with TMZ was done, he was like, oh, no, like, that's going to get out. Like, is that okay? And he first called Stephanie and was like, just want to let you know this is going to be out there. She's like, oh, that's great.

Like, we support you. We don't really care. And I feel like now 10 years later, we've gotten to a point where people don't really care. It's just a part of who you are. Yeah, I mean, you'll have pockets of people that still have the negativity or they'll say whatever online. But, you know, I'm numb to that at this point. But the support has been absolutely insane. I mean, we have grown men, straight men, scissoring each other.

You know, it's screaming, scissor me, daddy. I mean, come on. Like, it's, it's so much fun. I'm very, very lucky to, I guess, be in a situation where I can be comfortable with myself in AEW. And that was part of the appeal of coming to the locker room at AEW was when I first got there as an extra, I saw Sunny Kiss walking around. I saw Naila Rose walking around and then Diamante. And, like, all these people were free to be themselves without any, you know, without question. Yeah. And I like also the way that the company just,

allows people to be themselves on TV as well. There's no push to have them act a certain way or tell them not to do certain things because of, you know, I guess their look or what have you. So you were very free to be yourself. You were free to just be a performer and present yourself as you please. And, you know, in terms of like the locker room itself, like I don't even think twice about it. I can crack a joke or I can talk about my boyfriend and I can talk about all these things

openly and have people genuinely care and listen to me. So that's very cool. It's so funny how full circle this has come that Billy from Billy and Chuck is now part of Cizzer Me Daddy. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I don't like pulling the curtain too far back, but I will say that the daddy-ass birthday bash celebration I did, I thought would be a fun idea. and I did put together what you saw.

People enjoyed, but it was about maybe 30 or 40% of what I had originally planned. Were you going to invite Chuck Palumbo? He was going to be my birthday gift to Billy. I thought the irony of me reuniting Billy and Chuck would be perfect for this birthday bash, but he wasn't available last night. Come on, Chuck. Wow. I don't like putting things out there, but I really want people.

Was Rico available? That would have been pretty good, too. I don't think he, anything that we had like really thought about that would have been cool ended up not being available. So we just had to pivot and be like, all right, we're going to give you this trophy, you can adopt us. So we are Billy Guns adopted children now. But just know that that segment was going to be absolutely insane if it had been the way that we planned it. I feel like it's still possible. You never know.

In the world of pro wrestling, really anything is possible. So I feel like this is, I mean, we put it out there now. I feel like anything's possible. You just never know when a surprise might happen. That's the unpredictability of the acclaimed. Anybody can show up at any time. We could say anything we want at any time. You never know.

It's almost a disappointment when the acclaimed music doesn't hit during an episode of Dynamite or Rampage. It's like, come on. Well, it's acclaimed every Wednesday. It's acclaimed every week. This is so good. I had Road Dog on the show not long ago, and he was saying, like, he sees a lot of New wage outlaws in you guys.

He means this in the most positive way because they're one of the greatest tag teams of all time. Sure. And I can understand that. Like you've got a great entrance. You've got, you say stuff on the way to the ring. They did too.

But then you can back it up when you get in the ring. That was one of our biggest goals this year because a lot of, there were so many, like we try not to pay attention to stuff on Twitter and stuff. But you also, you can't help but see it because you're scrolling Twitter and things will pop up.

And a lot of the feedback was all over the place. Well, this guy can talk, but this guy can wrestle. But this guy can't wrestle, but this guy can talk. But they could both. There were so many different things. Like, no, we're both superstars. Yeah. We can both talk.

We can both wrestle. And anybody who's been in the ring with us, like, Dax just said some nice things about us on his podcast. He almost was in the same boat. It was like, oh, well, this guy can talk. And this guy is kind of a good wrestler. And he got in there with us. And he was like, whoa, these guys are really, really good. And that was our goal this year to show that we can have these, you know, elite, super elite style matches that people come to expect when you're at all elite wrestling.

And we can also tell a story. And we can also be just as entertaining as, you know, anybody in the professional wrestling world. And I think we got that message across. So we're excited for a really, really fun, 2023, fun successful, 2020. Did you see the random clip where Buff Bagwell was talking about how much he liked? you guys. Yes. I love those guys.

The two guys. It's crazy. Like, I scream it and for a shoot, everyone loves the acclaim. They do. And I first started, that actually was born out of the fact that everyone hated us when we first came, like legitimately hated us when we first started. Like the first month or two, people are like, why are these guys here? They suck. I don't get it.

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We hate them. So I thought, well, what would any delusional person say in this case? Everyone loves us. It's perfect. So everyone must love the acclaimed and slowly but truly it became a real thing. It's the new year, which means new habits for a lot of people. Maybe you want to lose some weight.

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Use the code Insight 22 for 22 free meals plus shipping. HelloFresh, America's number one meal kit. If we take it back before you signed with AEW, you were really close to signing with WW. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. How close? So I tell these, I think I've told the story a couple times. I haven't really gone too much into detail with that.

But you know, screw it, might as well. So I had a tryout with them in 2015 at the Arnold Classic. Did well enough there. They invited myself and Bianca to the Performance Center. We did a full one there. They told me not right now. Keep in touch. I kept in touch.

And then randomly in 2017, I got hit up, hey, you know, we're looking to bring it in 2018. So I started preparing. I did, you know, the background. I did everything outside. The only thing I needed was just the contract. And it never came. And I would check in every six months, like, hey, this is what you told me to work on, you know, presented to them, nothing.

And then, you know, budget issues, there's no room. I was like, how is there no room? You know, just hired 50 people. There's clearly room. But they ghosted me, really, for three years. And then I did dark. And then right after dark, they hit me back up. Well, that's convenient.

Very convenient. They hit me back up and they asked if I was a pre-agent, which I said I was. They ended up offering me a contract. I said yes, but then they never sent me a contract. And in that time frame, Tony had found out and he wanted me to go meet with him. And unbeknownst to me, I guess something similar was happening with Castor. So I thought, well, you know, this is kind of the second time that this has happened where I haven't gotten, you know, what I needed to. So I might as well hear this guy out.

I went out, spoke to Tony, and I liked our conversation. I liked the opportunity that he was giving us, and combine that with everything I talked about with the locker room. And truthfully, I had a family emergency at the time, and it kind of made me realize it didn't want to move to Orlando at that point in my life. So everything was just telling me I needed to go to AEW. So once they presented us for the contract, I signed it. And I told WW, unfortunately, I had to pass on their offer. I was never sent anything. And I trust Tony's vision for us.

And look where it's led you. Yeah, it's a great, great decision. The amount of opportunities that you've had. And some of them given to you or presented to you, but a lot of them, you guys created for yourself. Yeah, and I think that's the other rewarding thing, too, was like we're allowed to create. You know, obviously, Tony's the be-all end-all. If he doesn't like something, he will nix it. You know, he won't just say yes to anything.

But he allows us to be able to be ourselves and present ideas to him that clearly worked. And, you know, we trust each other. And I hope to continue that trust and keep building on the success that we already have. So you were playing baseball in college. When you entered college playing baseball, was MLB the dream at that time? Yeah, I wanted to be a major league baseball player. I played from Little League all the way through college. What position?

I was an outfielder. In high school, I was in Centerfield, and then I played two years at Cine Hall University in the Big East. I was in left field, and then I went to Montclair State University, which is Division III, and I played right field. And was like, when did the baseball dream start to die away? Probably my senior year. So I had a fifth year of eligibility, and the coach that I played for at Moncler was just miserable. I have no problem putting it out there. Like, I don't like him.

Completely miserable. He made baseball, playing baseball, a horrible, horrible experience. You know, it was very much if the vibe was not, hey, let's get better and win as a team. It was if I don't win in my record, isn't this, this, and this. You're, you know, you go O for two,

you're out of the game for two. You know what I mean? Wow. It was not a good coach. very weird fundamental I guess psychology in terms of approaching the game and playing the game it just was not fun

killed my love for the game and also I had bad tendonitis in my elbow so I was playing in pain like a lot of pain for that entire season and at that point I was just like I don't want to come back at this point rather just you know see what's

next in my life and that was you know I had a degree in TV and radio production so all this stuff is very, hey, look at this. Very, very, very familiar to me. I was interning at ESPN, New York. So was that the backup plan?

Yeah, I was going to be an editor. I worked at MMOB Network. I was trying to work my way up there. But also at the same time, I needed something creative to kind of fulfill that. Because I'd been on the baseball field for six, seven hours a day for years. Yeah, and baseball's relentless.

I played up until college. And you're playing so many games a week. And it's a lot. It's just, it's, it's, it's, it's grueling. The season is grueling. I mean, if you love it, it's fine. But if you're going into it and then, like, I mean, I guess that goes with anything. If you, if you're going into a situation and you're not really enjoying yourself, it's just going to drag on.

But at least with football, you've got six days between games or seven days between games. True. Baseball, you've got like 20 hours between games. Yeah, it just keeps going. Yeah. But say all that to say, I had been used to doing that every single day for X amount of hours. And I had all this extra time on my hands. I didn't know how to fill it.

I'd go to the gym twice a day. And that was got to be a little much. I needed something creatively to fulfill that time. And I think it was 2011. Some hurricane was rolling in. So it delayed my friends going back to college to move back into their dorms. and my buddy Nico was like, let's make a wrestling video. Because, like, my friends aren't wrestling fans.

They tolerate it because I would put it on. But Nico would be the only other person that was like, yeah, let's watch wrestling. I like, I like, I like it. And he, I'd call him a fan, actually. But he was like, let's just make a funny video. And it was kind of akin to, I don't know if you watched the Kenny Omega. And I forgot what maybe it was a bushy that he wrestled like in a house. It was like in a forest.

And he ended up wrestling into, kind of like. Kind of like that, but more comedic, where I was, for some reason, the Black Mamba, and he was this character called The Bulge, which stuffed his crotch full of stuff, and he talked like macho man. I can't do a macho man impression, but I'm the Bold. Everyone has a macho. Come on. It's a terrible impression. Don't judge me. But we would just beat the crap out of each other. We made it into a storyline because we posted it on YouTube. It's private. So don't. Look it up. It caught on locally. People were like, this is funny. It's fun.

And we made a whole series out of it. And the main feedback I would get was like you kind of look like you're a pro wrestler. Like you've thought about doing it. And that was kind of like the first initial seed that was planted. Like, maybe I could. So I started looking to different training schools. I thought about moving down in Florida. I thought about going to Lance Storms in Canada.

I didn't have the money at the time. And one day, WWE was in the area and back in Jersey. And usually when they're there, they lift at the gym that I go to. So I emailed all my professors like I was sick. I won't be coming in. So then I went to the gym. I just started meeting people and taking photos. And the last person that I was going to go up to, but almost didn't, was Santina Morella.

Because he was, I guess, in between. He was doing his sets and I didn't want to bother him. I was like, you know what? I won't bother him. I'll leave. But my buddy Will was like, you're never going to see him again. Just take the photo. Which ended up being super crucial because when I took the photo with him as I walked away, he stopped me and said, hey, you have the size to be a pro wrestler.

Have you ever thought about becoming one? I was like, oh my God, yeah. And then he pulled out his phone. He gave me the number to Pat Buck, who at the time, still is the owner of Russell Pro, Creative Pro. It's also now producer with us at AEW, which is really cool, producing our match. matches. And then the next week I went down to the training center, which was obliterated because of Hurricane Sandy. And they were just doing practicing chain wrestling on amateur

wrestling mats. And I was like, this is the coolest thing ever. And I started. The amazing thing about that story is that things happen in your life at the right time for a certain reason. Like, it'd be interesting to know what your path would have been like had you gone, I'm not going to bother Santina. I'm just going to keep working out here. No idea. Maybe you would have found your way into wrestling. Maybe not. And it's just so interesting to me that people are put into your life for a certain reason at a certain point in time.

It's crazy. I do believe things happen for a reason. Because that whole timeline, if one thing goes wrong, I don't know what happens. Am I sitting here right now talking about all this? I don't know. And I feel like in that same vein, you are that for a lot of people. I think a lot of people see you on TV and go, oh, it's okay for me to be myself. How often do people come up to you and go, I felt comfortable coming out because of you?

A lot. We usually, Max and I would do the meet and greets. And we try to make those meet and greets as memorable as possible. You know, people are paying. Cisor everybody. I'm legitimately scissoring everybody. Group scissors, chain scissors, double scissors, threesome scissors, all kind of scissors. All day for hours.

But we'll get people that will come up to both of us, really, because Max is a really, good ally to the community. And he's also a virgin to let you guys know. He wanted me. Everybody said. But these people will come up to us and

just tell their stories. And it's hard for me not to get emotional with them because this was me. However many so years ago, struggling with the same exact thing. The hard part comes when they ask for advice because I don't know what their life situation. And I recognize I'm privileged because I came from a pretty, you know, liberal tri-state area where I don't really feel threatened by anything.

Also, like, most people don't know if I don't tell. Like, if they don't know that I'm a gay man, because my physical, I think the stereotype of being gay is this different presentation that I have. So I kind of get to go under the radar with certain things. and other people live in areas where it may not be safe to be out and open or they don't have support from their friends and family or they become more of a target just because of maybe how they dress. So I understand that I don't, that aspect I don't really have to worry about a lot. So I can't just openly give advice to people like, hey, go do this, go do that. Because then my conscience is like, I told them to do this and then maybe they got harmed for it or something. So giving advice tends to be very hard for me without actually having to sit down and talk to people almost individually and figure out what their life scenario or situation is.

Things are going so well for you right now. Congratulations on all of that. Thank you. Do you remember a time when things weren't going so well and what that looked like? I think something that sticks out was probably the day I got the no from definitely. That was like my first life kicking me in the balls because I woke up. I got the email, hey, like, no. And then I had an audition that I bombed because I was...

Like an acting audition? Yeah. That I bombed, remember it was for a footlocker commercial because of that. And then I got home and found out like 30 minutes later that my grandmother had passed away. And she was like very, very important to me. So that was kind of just like boom, boom, boom. And that was kind of the first time in my life where it was just like, this sucks. You know, is this ever going to work out for me?

I just lost my grandmother. It was a very, very dark time. But I am very, very big into turning negatives into positives. I did let it get to me for a couple weeks. But anytime I get into that state, I try to find things that I can turn positive, like the gym is one of them. If I'm angry, if I'm sad, if I'm upset, I'll go to the gym. and I'll work out because one, it lets off steam and two, I'm putting the positive is, you know, my body's looking better. I'm feeling better mentally.

Before that used to be, I would, when I played baseball, I'd go out to batting, excuse me, I'd go to the batting cage and take some swings. It would be anything that I can do to, you know, turn a negative into the positive. And I'm very proud that I was able to overcome that mental state that I was in. I was very proud that I was able to make my grandmother proud because before she passed, I promised her that I'd be successful in this business. So I dedicate that whole title win to her and everything else I do to her. So that would probably have been the hardest time in my life outside of, I guess, the, I guess, my sexuality, there's plenty of times where it felt like all hope was lost.

I say this whole story all the time. I remember pulling into my driveway, I'm just parking my car in the garage and just crying for 30 just trying to let it all out because it just felt like everything was overwhelming. I just felt so heavy. You know, that heaviness that you feel when something's burdening you. And it's all you can think about. And it's all you can think about. Anytime you, you know, anytime there's any time for your mind to kind of just wander,

it ends up going back to that very thing. It just starts compounding on you. But in those instances, same thing. I always just try to distract myself, talk to somebody. If you have someone available to you, I had plenty of my best friends I'm so thankful for because they really helped me become comfortable with myself. So I told my best friend, Greg, in 2010, and then I kind of let the rest of them know on a need-to-know basis and to the whole group knew.

And then they really helped me become comfortable with myself and then the support of my parents once I told them. So I'm very lucky. So it's a big move to go east coast to west coast. Yes. And it's especially a big move to move to L.A. And everybody who's moved here has a moving to L.A. story. A lot of people are moving here for, you know, acting or television or movies. And that's kind of your story.

But like, what was everything that went into moving here? So a lot of it was, truthfully, my boyfriend, Michael. Michael's always wanted to come out here. He's an incredible actor. He does, actually, I'll put over my YouTube channel. Like and subscribe to Mike. Michael and Anthony, please. Hey, we should link it below.

Link it below, please. If you subscribe, I will scissor you. Wow. That's an incentive. But the channel's called Michael and Anthony. That's actually how I came out in the first place. I will round out the story because I do sidebar sometimes, so excuse me. But I met Michael in 2016.

We dated secretly for six months, which I'm completely appreciative. I felt bad, but at the time I was not ready to come out yet. I promised him that it wouldn't be forever. Were you out to anybody at that point? My friends and my... So people were really close to you. Just my inner inner circle. Yeah, okay.

And I promised him it wouldn't be forever. I just needed to be ready. But he also always wanted to start a YouTube channel. He had like little videos that he had done with his brother, him and his brother, very creative into TV and stuff like that. And he wanted to do a video with me. And I was like, nope. I can't do it.

And then I saw how disappointed he was. And I was like, screw it. You don't have that many subscribers. Let's make the video. Whatever. I made the video. It was a fun video. It's called a laughing challenge.

You put water in your mouth, watch a funny video. If you spit it out, you lose. Very cute. And then one of the wrestlers found out about it. And that's kind of how I was like, okay, well, the wrestlers support me. My family supports me. My friend support me. you know and I can help people you know what do I have like what am I waiting for that's how I

eventually came out but anyway that video birthed basically the YouTube channel we started doing vlogs it started to grow um we didn't really have a direction to what we were doing we were just doing like what we thought people would want it the the YouTube challenges um but it was boring it wasn't really I shouldn't say boring it wasn't creatively fulfilling for us we were trying to figure out what made us tick. And then the pandemic rolled around and Michael was like, let's, Michael's very good impressions. And he always does these impressions of the people that were watching from all these reality TV shows. And one of the shows that came out was love is blind. And he was like, why don't we spoof this show that's kind of bad? But it's like funny. There's

funny elements that we can make fun of. We did it. And then all of the sudden that video got a million views so that we did another couple that got almost a half a million and they just how many subscribers do you have right now to a little bit over 220,000 amazing congrats on the silver play button thank you yes that was very exciting that's a big move yeah um so yeah we do all kinds of parodies uh 90-day fiancee always tends to be the biggest ones that we do but we've done tiger king Kardashians we wrote our own sketches uh it's really funny honestly it's like kind of slapstick comedy like naked gun scary movie two type yeah type humor um but i say all that to say um he always had acting dreams i always wanted to kind of do the same thing as a backup to wrestling

and finally we're at the point where we needed a change of you know scenery we also really just wanted to give this a go so we moved to los angeles and also a lot of times when we wanted to collaborate with other people it was like hey let's do this sure where are you located located Los Angeles. Yeah, every time. Every single time. So we decided to come out here and give it a go.

And it's been great. Michael just landed a lead in his first horror film feature film that's coming out. He's got a lot of stuff pouring in, did a pilot for a comedy show that hopefully gets picked up. And then on my end, I hope to really tackle it hard in 2023 and hopefully land some TV film gigs because I've only done commercials outside of the live television. Do you have specific acting goals for this year? I just want to land something, even if it's one word. Okay. Because for me, once I land one and I get the experience of going through everything,

there's not any unanswered questions. That's when I really start to pick up steam. Essentially, like same thing with wrestling. I came in on an AEW. I came in on shore. I wasn't used to wrestling on television. And then I was finding myself as the acclaimed. And then once I start, you know,

getting that confidence, it lights out. I know it'll be successful. This is your year. I can feel it. Like you guys did a lot. You personally did a lot in 2022, but we're sitting here right now. It's January, 2023. I feel like you've got, you can do basically whatever you want this year, and it's going

to be a big year for you. Well, thank you. I'll tell you what, how about I come back on the show in December of 20203 and we'll figure out how we did. If John will make that happen, we will make, done, it's happening. Dude, it's so good to sit down with you. I'm so glad we could do this in person. Thank you.

We end every conversation talking about gratitude because that's such a big thing in my life. I start every day. I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. I do it at the end of the day, too. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for as you sit here right now? I am grateful for those in my life that are closest to me, my friends, my family, Michael. I am grateful for the, I guess, my career that I've worked very, very hard for. And that includes Max Caster being a part of that and helping the growth.

And I'm grateful for everybody that supports us because, you know, I wouldn't be in the position to do any of these cool things or experience anything. Experience all of my dreams, I suppose. If it wasn't for people, you know, supporting us, scissoring us, buying the merch and just screaming along with us every single way. week. I'm grateful for everybody that's, you know, help me get to where I'm at today. And it's just the beginning. Congrats, man. Congrats on everything. Well, we can't finish like that. Are you ready? I don't know. Cizzer me, crap. Okay, now we can end the show. Thanks, man. Thank you. There you have it. Anthony Bowens, ladies and gentlemen, what a great story he has, both everything that

he's overcome in his personal life and everything that he's overcome in his professional life. And I really feel like the acclaimed, they're just getting started. Although, huh, maybe I should have talked to him about this. Every great tag team at some point ends up breaking up and they have a great feud. So, huh, is that going to happen with Max Caster? Hmm. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode. Huge thank you, of course, to Anthony for making his way into Hollywood so we could do that interview in person.

Take a screenshot. know what you thought of this episode and please feel free to share this with anybody who you might think would like this. Tag us on social media if you do take that screenshot and post it. He's at Bowen's official. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and I'll leave you with the words of Ralph Waldo Emerson. To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more. insight the hammer alley podcast an 80s flashback mockumentary back in the 80s there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock but there was one band that had it all hammer alley whatever

happened to hammer alley how did they go from top of the rock i'm looking for a music video they're a band from 1987 hammer alley ever heard of them to rock bottom dude i was born in 1987 uh i can't believe he's doing this hammer alley follow and listen on your favorite platform.