Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Apollo Crews: WWE Release, Nigerian Character, WrestleMania 37, IC Title, Uhaa Nation, What's Next

Episode Date: September 24, 2026

Get tickets for the next Insight LIVE! https://cvvtix.com Uhaa Nation (@apollowwe) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WWE as Apollo Crews. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Orlando, FL to discuss being released from WWE after 11 years with the company, what's next for him, winning the Intercontinental Championship at WrestleMania 37, the origins of his Nigerian royalty character, why he lost his last name and simply went by "Apollo" for 4 months, winning the United States Championship, being called underrated in his career, appearing at TNA Slammiversary under the name Uhaa Nation, being a proud father and much more! Please support our sponsors: SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount SUPERPOWER: Head to https://superpower.com and use code CVV at checkout for $20 off your membership. Get 100+ biomarkers tested every year, plus a personalized health plan and on-demand care team. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. You bring such big energy. It's always so good to see you. I love it. Thank you. Thank you. It's just, that's me ever since I was a young man.

But it's funny because when I was a kid, I was just naturally shy. And growing up, I saw my mom smile a lot. So I think it just kind of naturally rubbed off on me. There's something about giving a smile to somebody. There is. I think it changes their day, right? Yes. You never know what they're going through?

A smile could change somebody's, their whole situation, right? You know, and it's funny because I used to get asked a lot, you know, the beginning of my career. So when I'd come out, I was just told to smile. It's just like just smile, smile. When I got on, when I debuted on Raw, and the only thing people would say is that it's something about my smile. It was like, guys, good in the ring, you do this, but all he does is smile. And I get asked a lot, like, why do you smile so much? And I felt like I had to have an answer for it.

And I didn't really, there's just no answer. You know, it was one I was being told to smile, and it was just naturally what I do a lot. But there was not really like a reason. What a crazy question asked. Why do you smile? You know, I don't know, I'm happy. I'm happy. You know, so I feel like I ended just making up stuff.

Like, ah, this is why I smile. But it's like, as I got older, I realized that, like, if you don't have an answer for something, it's okay just to, you know, say there's just no answer for it. There's no reason for it. That's a huge lesson to learn, right? Like, sometimes the answer is just yes. Yeah, that's it. That's simple as that.

I don't know. Yeah. Facts. Yeah. And it was just trying to figure out like, okay, why do I have to explain something or why am I trying to find a reason to explain something that I just naturally do? I don't know. I'm just naturally happy.

But think of that idea of giving someone a smile who may not get one today. Yeah. An Uber driver or someone working at the grocery store. Someone working at retail and having a terrible day. And that little thing that for you, it's moving a few muscles in your face can change the whole trajectory of their day. Simple. And I see it every day, too, when I go to, like you said, a grocery store or something and you just, like, carry that energy with you into the line. You know, this person's like, and I worked at Dollar Tree for a while before wrestling.

So I know it's like standing up there, you know, just scanning. I worked in retail for years. I know what you mean. Oh, scanning items. And, like, everyone expects you to be a certain way, right? And when you have somebody approach you about something that's outside of that job that you're doing, you know, the thought doesn't even come to your head. Like, so like for me, when I go to, you know, anyone, essentially, it's just like you walk to the airport up to the gate,

I don't know what these people are dealing with, you know, so my instinct isn't to walk up them with, I'm late, my flight is canceled, da-da-da-da, whatever it is. It's, you know, just treat them how you don't want to be treated. I saw a quick little video on Instagram not that long ago that changed my whole perspective. It was talk to people like you've known them your whole life. Yeah. I like that. And it's so true.

So yeah, for sure. Like if that cashier was your aunt or uncle, you'd be talking to them a very different way. Completely different way. And for me, I think having kids too has helped me kind of hasn't kind of helped, but it's helped me really change the way I look at certain things, especially like that because, you know, these guys are watching. They're watching and it's just like anything that you do, they soak up, they mirror. You know, it's, we walk to the store and it's like my dad is an asshole to this guy.

You know, it's, uh, hey, search, I think it's okay. Exactly. And you don't want to raise kids like that, right? So, how old are your kids? My daughter is nine and my son is seven. He just turned seven in February. My daughter turned nine in June. And, uh, I blinked.

I remember my daughter was born and I was on, back then we used to do Red and Blue Loop for Raw on Smackdown, where Red was obviously Raw, Blue and Smackdown, and I'm trying to get it right. But I think we would be home like a day and a half or something. We'd on the road for like four days, maybe five, I think it's four. But the travel day you kind of don't really count as like a day home. So it's kind of like four and a half.

You come home enough time to do laundry and then you're back on the road before, you know it because we were doing live events and stuff at that time, too. But she was born around that period. 2017, she was born. And close my eyes, you know, and she's almost 10. And it's just, the time just goes like that. And I think being in wrestling speeds up that time a little faster because we're always looking for the next thing.

It's like, okay, you won this title here, but what's next, right? You know, you had a WrestleMania moment. What's next? When's the next WrestleMania moment? So we're always looking for that next thing. And there's never a chance to just sit and enjoy that moment that you've achieved, you know. And it just, you look up 10 years later and it's gone, you know what I mean. Visit BetMGM Casino and check out the newest exclusive.

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I want to help my kids, and I want to give back to the community. Ooh, then it's the vacation of a lifetime. I wonder if my out-of-office has a forever setting. An IG Private Wealth Advisor creates the clarity you need with plans that harmonize your business, your family, and your dreams. Get financial advice that puts you at the center. Find your advisor at IGPrivatewealth.com. Now that you're not with WWE anymore, have you had the chance to slow down a little bit? Yeah, for sure, for sure.

The first thing I did when, so I'll just talk about the release a little bit. It was, I was at my son's basketball practice. And that week, I kind of had an idea because it was WrestleMania the week before. And I hadn't been doing anything on TV. And I got called in to do some appearances at WrestleMania, which was pretty cool because I think the two years before that I just stayed at home for both WrestleMania's. Where I didn't even go to do any media, no appearances, anything like that. So I was out in Vegas for Mania, get home. I think it was Wednesday after mania.

I got a call from travel, and they said that I'm not needed for Smackdown this week. So I'll be staying home. And at that moment, I instantly knew. I was like, okay, Friday, they're going to call me, and this is going to be it. So Friday came, went about it like normal. The whole day I was just waiting for the call. I get my son to basketball practice around like 5 p.m., and here the call comes. a 45 second call, you know, just explaining the situation.

Wow. And the first thing, I didn't even really, like, think too much. It didn't hit me like how I expected. Like, you know, there had been times when I was expecting to be released throughout my career just because I wasn't doing anything. And I had seen so many people just getting released left and right. And, you know, I'd almost develop like this survivor's remorse because I'm like, man, how come, you know, I'm still here.

But I always pictured what it would be like. but it was, when it happened, it was nothing like that pictured. Like, I didn't feel like how I thought I'd felt. How'd you feel? I didn't really feel anything. It was just kind of, and when I said, I didn't feel anything, it wasn't like, ah, I don't care, but it was just, I think I just didn't give it enough time to process, you know,

and I think it was just, not that it was unexpected, but I think the fact that I did expect it kind of helped soften the blow. And it wasn't that I didn't care. but it was just like I wasn't overly emotional about it. And I was at basketball practice with my son. So, you know, I was like, okay, I have to still be a dad. You know, once this practice is over, I can't, you know, just salk in my misery until we get home.

You know, he's going to, he knows nothing about that, what's going on with the job. And even if I explain it to him, he just couldn't understand it. So you think about how you've got to show up in this moment for your son. For my son, you know, and that's the first thing that I was, I was really trying to focus on just making sure, you know, after practice, he's wanting to play with friends a little bit extra and shoot around a little extra. And he's just being a kid.

So, you know, I just made sure I was there for him. I texted my wife as soon as it happened and let her know. And I had already told her a couple of days before I'm kind of expecting it. And, you know, she's just being as positive she can. It's like, don't put that energy out there in the air and whatnot. But to go back to your question about having the chance to slow down, I have, you know, we planned, we go to Finland twice a year where my wife's from. Most of the time with WWE, any time I'd got to go over there, it was like five days.

You know, we'd leave SmackDown would happen or raw, and I'd leave as soon as that show is over the next morning. But then I'd have to be back the following week for TV. So what I did this time is extended the vacation, you know, for a month-long period. And I was like, man, you know, 11 years of... is a long time to be tied up in the company. And a lot of my identity was inside WW. So I was like, I need to figure out who I am outside of this company. I went about like a bicycle.

I've been doing a lot of reading already, but I got into David Goggins' book, which I'd read already, Can't hurt me. I dove into that again. And, you know, a lot of what he talks about is finding himself through these physical challenges that, you know, 99.9% of the world just couldn't do, you know. And I was just saying that I was gonna run a marathon

or anything like that, but I was like, let me push myself to the physical limit and see if I can find out who I am outside of this place, you know, and I just was, I think it was my way of coping with these emotions or with the release. And it was hard because I just didn't really, I had a real life, you know, it wasn't just me by myself where I could just sit

in a room and be like, you know, depressed or whatever, or let me deal with all these emotions on my own. It was like, you know, I had two kids. I had a wife that still needed to go to school. You know, still had, my son had a basketball game the next day. I still had, you know, neighbors that you got to talk to, people that are in your real life that you got to see.

But their situation hasn't changed, but yours has. You know, and it's like, man, sometimes when you want to just kind of curl up into a ball and disappear, I didn't have that opportunity where it was just like I have to show my face. I got birthday parties and stuff like that. So life did, I have had the chance to step back and really just enjoy being a dad too and do things. I had the time to do things that I really didn't have the time for before. One thing is waking up and just like it's always felt like I had somewhere to be when I was with the company.

But it's nice to wake up and be like, okay, I don't really have anything. Again, I have duties as a father, but I don't really have anywhere to be for myself. You know, so I wanted to take a lot of time for myself and just figure out who I was. And I don't even know if I've gotten all the way to that point yet. You know, it's only been a couple months, but, you know, it's still working on that process and learning that, hey, a lot of my identity was tied up in that, but I realized quickly, hey, it's not the end of the world. This is an opportunity for something new as well. What does your wrestling career you think look like moving forward?

Right now I'm enjoying family and I'm taking up things that I want to find, and not that I didn't love wrestling, but I want to find that real passion for it again and really find out, I know before I got into WWI, I wrestled a certain way where it was just almost like this free, like carefree. And it was the reason I got a sign. It was just the way I was. It was just the confidence and the almost like just killer instinct, right? Whereas just I had a sense of who I was. And, you know, I just did things inside the ring because it was what I felt.

A lot of that got lost once I started working in NXT where things were happening before that I wasn't used to. Where it was like, you know, we'd sit down and watch our matches and the coaches and be critiqued on that, like, in front of, you know, the rest of the class where it's like questioning, okay, why did you do that? And it's, you know, I don't, like we talked about with the smile, I don't really have an answer. It's just something I felt like doing, but why? You know, and it made me second guess myself a lot, which I think over time kind of turned me into a different athlete or different wrestler altogether. But I still feel like, I'm 39 now, but I still feel like I have a lot to give in wrestling. The thing is, I just don't feel like I'm in a hurry to give that at this moment, you know. I don't feel like this burning desire, like I have to do it right now, you know.

And the opportunity may never come to do it, but I think I'm, I've gotten to the point where I'm okay with that too. We recently saw you in TNA. Yep. That's Lamaversea. Yep. Was that just a one-off thing? Yeah, so the story behind is, it's pretty interesting.

TNA had reached out to W.W. Because I was still within that, like, 90-day release period of- Non-compete. Yeah, non-compete where I technically couldn't wrestle for anybody else. but TNA got in contact with WWV, and I think it was, Moose may have been the first one to call me and told me that TNA was looking

to bring me in for Slammiversary. And my first thought was like, man, I'm in my 90 days, no way that's gonna happen. Yeah, okay, whatever. So I kind of brush it off, and at the time I was at, we were on our drive at one of the resorts, kind of just taking a staycation.

And shortly after that, Lee had called me and presented the same idea. and was like, I think they're trying to get me and you to work at Slammiversary. And he asked me, he's like, now, the issue is, would you be okay losing? And I was like, you know, at the time, I wasn't even sure if I wanted to wrestle. Because this was like not even a month after the release. I still was trying to, you know, like I said, figured things out, how I felt about wrestling and all that. And my response to him was like, you know, I spent my whole career losing at WWW.

the first thing outside of WWW that I don't want to do is lose. And he respected my answer. He was like, I complete respect that. I would have said the same thing. And, you know, again, I get a call for Moose shortly after that. And he's like, they're saying that you don't want to do the match or whatever. And I was like, hold on. I didn't say I don't want to do the match.

I just said I don't think that I want to come in there and lose. After being losing literally, I think, every single match for the last, since before I torn my peck, The last time I won, I think, was when I, the night I tore my peck when I wrestled Gargano, and I ended up winning that match. But this is February 2020. That might have been 25. Yeah, out and then 26. So over a year and a half, maybe we're talking, you know, or a year and some change.

So eventually what they am doing was like, okay, we can do a three-way with you, Rich Swan, and Mustafa Ali, where you end up not taking the pin, but we just want to come out here and want you to have a good match. And talking to my wife, I was like, this would be something good, I think, too, where it's just kind of like, I think I need that opportunity where the spotlight would be on me again. You know, I always enjoy performing. I love going out there and being the center of focus for that moment, you know what I mean? And that was something I enjoy.

That's something that is a huge part of me. And even as a kid playing sports, I just always wanted to be. in front of an audience doing something. And it's like, damn, that guy's good or whatever it is, right? So, like, I felt like it'd be a great opportunity to be in that spotlight again and just have the time, you know, to have one of those matches that I never really had a chance to have inside of WW. So the match ended up happening. And I kind of just took my vacation after that.

And wrestling hasn't really been. I booked some things here and there, but wrestling really hasn't been. been like the center focus of my life, apparently. So I'm glad I got that opportunity because we went out there and had, I got to work with two studs, two amazing human beings, Rich Swan, somebody I used to work with, you know, in Dragon Gate before either one of us had got signed to WWs. So two good friends and really, really enjoyed what we got to do.

And it was nice to get that, you know, I'll say the internet pop again too and just to be talked about again. That was, that's very nice. I don't think that gets old for anybody. At what point in WWE did you realize you were on this losing streak? I'm sure it's not presented to you. It's not presented. No, no, no.

It's not presented. One week, it's a loss. The next week it's a loss. When do you start putting together that, oh, I'm just losing? Man, it's hard to say exactly when, you know, I just kind of, and the way I am is a person. I always look at, I always try to see the light at the end of the tunnel where it's like, okay, whatever I'm going through now, there's got to be something for this.

And there may not be, but it's, you know, I try to, keep that mentality. I tried to keep it through my whole career because it was just ups and downs, ups and downs. But to say a specific moment where, you know, when I realize it's just going to be this, it's hard to say, but I will say there was a point in time where, you know, and you can kind of get a sense of it when you talk to some people like, hey, is there anything planned or you talk to the writers and there's not really any direct answer. It's not you. It's, you know, we just got to figure this out. But in the meantime, you see other things going on where they just, you know, make it happen.

So it's hard to say when the exact moment was. I think it was more a combination of things, you know, kind of come into TV and you find out late the morning of. Or, you know, maybe as you're getting to the building, hey, you're not on TV or, you know, you're going to be on the show main event. I guess it was around that time. Like, I think since 2023, and we talked about it earlier, I think I was doing most of my matches were in main event. There's this like meme. Yes. That it's like Apollo Cruz versus.

And like your picture doesn't change. Doesn't change. But the opponent's picture changes. Yes. Yes. And, you know, it was I kind of thing. I feel like in the locker room it's looked at as like main event is like, uh, almost like a negative thing.

You know, you don't want to say it's like I looked at it. Okay. At least I'm working. You know, I'm getting, uh, I get to get out there and, uh, work on my craft. I get to work in front of a crowd. I get the reps, you know, but at the same. time, it's kind of like, you know, why am I not on Raw or Smackdown? I don't understand that. But even on main event, there was a phase where, you know, I'd win everything, but then it got

to a point where I would just, you know, start, whoever it was, whoever, it didn't matter who it was, it was just loss after loss after loss. You know, I'd question about these things, but, you know, there was never any specific answer of, okay, this is exactly what it is. So then you sit there and you look, it's like, okay, well, they're not telling you, telling me it's me, you know, I'm not the issue. It's according to what they're saying. They just got to find the right program, you know. But then you can't help but wonder, like, what am I doing wrong, right?

Because you see everybody else getting the opportunities or you see them just being put into things and doing things that you wish you were doing, right? And, you know, here you are. You're saying it's not you, you are, I felt like I've, anybody I'd get in there with, I'd have great matches with them, never injured anyone. I never made it difficult for anybody when we're, you know, putting things together. But, and I feel like if you were to ask in the locker room about me, there wouldn't be much anybody could say that was negative. But does that really matter? You know, you wonder, like, I don't know if it's somewhere along the line,

someone just doesn't like me or what it is, right? But you never get that direct answer. And you come back to TV, and it's the same thing, every week, same thing. thing. It's just, okay, main event again this week. And I might not even find that if I'm winning or losing until, you know, that while we're at the building, right? It's not like, you know, the night before, hey, it's this and this, uh, you versus him. You're losing because this is what we're getting to, right? It's leading to something. Yeah, for sure. It's just, you're losing just because it's just what was decided, right? And I also, you know, we're always told, like, in

wrestling, and I don't know, we've had, I've had discussions about this with people, you know, they'll talk about winning and losing doesn't matter in wrestling. And they always say that in an instant they can make you the hottest thing going in wrestling, right? Or overnight you can become, your career can change, right? But somewhere inside it affects you. You know, but I would always just try to keep a positive mindset. You know, I'd look at it. I'd go home, you know, I'd get to show my kids my matches on when the main event match with air on on hulu at the time i think it's youtube now but i would always try to make sure i stayed a positive role model for them too to where it's like okay i can't again sit here and be upset about this i got to set a good example and here's a

lesson i can teach your kids like hey things may not always go your way in life right but as long as you remain positive keep a uh a good outlet things are going to or keep a good outlet things are going to end of working for you and the end. But, you know, it got to a point where it was just nonstop, just that was the only thing I was doing. And you can see the writing's on the wall. You know, eventually it's just like, okay, I'm not really getting any information from the writers. It's not really, I'd sit down and write to, I think there was two times where, you know, I took time to sit down and write like something that I, I felt was really good, you know, and I'd get help from other people.

I'd ask first, what do you guys think about this? What is your input? People I trusted, what do you think is your input stories we're talking about here? And, like, character ideas, you know, and you send it in and you just don't hear any, no feedback about it. It was good, it was bad, just nothing, you know what I mean? So that kind of, you go through that for long enough, and eventually it just is like, you know, I'm just going to, and you hate to say it, but you get almost.

the lack of feedback almost puts you in this position of like just you know I'm just going to be comfortable coming to TV getting paid to do whatever they want me to do. Happy to be here. Just happy to be here. I'm just like, you know, at least I'm getting paid, whatever it is. Right. But you don't want to get stuck in that mindset, but sometimes it's hard for you not to. And it's unfortunate because you see it happen with a lot of people.

There's a lot of us that kind of go through the same thing. And again, it's business at the end of the day too, right, where it's just it is what it is. But I always tried to keep that positive mindset about whatever it was that I was doing out there. And even if it was main event, I was like, okay, I'm going to go out here and give them the 100% of Apollo Cruz, whether I'm losing or winning, because that's just who I am as a person. Underrated is always the word that is attached to you. Yep. how do you feel when people describe you and your career is underrated? It's tough to say.

At first I felt like it was like a, not so much an honor, but it was like, okay, at least some people see. Like you're the best kept secret. Yeah, exactly, right? But how long can you be kept a secret before, you know, it just, it just fades away, right? That anticipation for that breakout opportunity or whatever kind of fades away, right? or it just is the potential just kind of that phase passes, right? Where I still get that even up to this day, a lot of, you know, just you're the most underrated, you know, a wrestler or one of the most underrated.

Because then it goes from underrated to underutilized. Underutilized. It goes from that quick, too, right, where we, I won't say we, but I'd sometimes take a lot of, pride might not be the word, but I'd appreciate it a lot because at least someone, was seeing the the somebody can see it or the lack of the lack of use or can see the talent but not that who's telling this doesn't matter but if you can see it why can't the people who are making the decisions see it right um but i get that a lot underrated um i don't even know how to look it these days like 39 you know 11 years deep into my career i'll still getting the underrated

talk, but I felt like I shouldn't be in that position, right, where people are still calling me underrated after being there for such a long, long period of time. And again, somebody else might think different, but, you know, I always appreciate again when someone would tell me that, you know, today, I, you know, thank you. You know, I don't know what else to really say to it. And I don't know if I look at myself as underrated, you know, because I feel like I know what I'm capable of. Maybe a lot of people might not because they just haven't seen, had the opportunity to see me do that. You know, even when we're doing the, when I was doing the match with TNA for Slam Reversey,

it was like the doubt of like, man, can I still have that match? You know, because I hadn't, I don't think I'd had any matches that might have been longer than five minutes for, I don't know, since, you know, it was either early on shortly after I was called up or NXT where it was just, here's the singles. You guys have, you know, 12 to 15 minutes to go out there and just, and just do it, right? where now you're giving all this time all of a sudden, it's like, man, can I still, do I still have that in the ring, right? I'm just used to going out there five minutes, boom, boom, boom,

and then, you know, we're sprinting to the back, right? Where, again, now it starts bringing doubt in yourself, right? But the underrated talk to, I always wanted that because I'm like, am I underrated? Like, do I even have, you know, do I still have what it takes to go out there and have that match that, you know, everybody's going to be talking about? It just been such a long time since I had. But, you know, yeah, underrated is an interesting, interesting thing to talk about. Where was the point in your career in WWE where you felt like things were firing on all cylinders and things were clicking?

Man, I'm not going to lie. It was when we were the Nigerian character, when I did that, and I said Nigerian. So my family is Nigerian. I'm not Nigerian by birth, but by blood I am Nigerian. So I was born in California, but my mom and dad are Nigerian. Born and raised, and my dad came over to the United States in 1983, I believe. So first-generation American. And I was doing stuff with Biggie at the time.

This is who absolutely love. He, working with him at the time, he helped me tremendously. And I remember when I got to go out there and cut my first promo where I had an accent. I was out there. I had like a three-minute promo or something. He was the first one who he sent me a voice note about how proud he was in me and being able to have that moment and do that, man. And I always love the stuff that, you know, the time that I got to spend with Biggie in the ring and the time that we got to work together. But he, we were doing, I hadn't made the transition yet into that character.

And we were, I just turned Hill, I believe, but it still wasn't, I think I was getting ready to. We might have been doing like some tag stuff. I think Sammy Zane was involved in some of the stuff that we're doing as well. And he mentioned to me what he thought would be a good idea is that there's not, at the time, there wasn't any African representation on either Rar Smackdown. And at the time, I think Black Panther had just come out too or was getting ready to come out. And I love the story of Kilmonger and how he was, you know, coming back to claim what was his and what was rightfully his. And I was like, man, that's a good way to kind of tell a story of me getting back in touch with my roots.

Because I grew up, I didn't grow up in Nigeria. Our parents didn't speak the language to us when we were young kids. We heard them talking their language, but they never spoke directly to us. I think at the time when my dad had just come to the United States, he wanted us to really be able to be integrated into United States culture and not really struggle with languages. everything and in school and all that. When he looks back, he's like, we should have spoke our language to you guys as kids and you would have learned English and, or you would, yeah, you would have learned English at school. So I didn't have a lot of, I grew up in Africa for a good

amount of my life, Uganda and Kenya, but I didn't have a lot of, uh, Nigerian, um, my dad's traditional, but I didn't really know much about Nigeria growing up. The languages that spoke to us. We've been there a few times, but it wasn't like something that was like, you guys have to learn this culture. So it would have been interesting for me, I thought, to really go back and understand and learn Nigerian culture and bring the fans along for this ride as well. So pitch the idea at the time. And apparently the first thing that Vince at the time said was, is he going to have an accent? And that wasn't something that was planning on doing.

Like killmonger is not an accent. Yeah, he doesn't have. I don't have a, I don't know, I don't think this is what the idea that I had was not to portray it in this kind of way, right? And I remember I was really strongly against it at first because I didn't feel like it just didn't make sense to me. And we, as kids, I had a lot of Nigerian American friends, so we'd kind of imitate our parents and do that accent a lot as kids. And my brother and sister, we'd kind of pretend, put on the accent, just kind of imitate my dad and stuff. but by no means that I ever think that I was going to be doing it on TV in front of millions of people or anything to that level. So I felt strongly about it. I wouldn't have spoke to him and I pleaded my case against it.

Obviously, you know, I was talked to it to it. And I was like, you know, okay, well, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it 100%. And somehow, you know, I use a lot of the just, how my dad was growing up, and I was able to kind of really just immerse myself into this character. You know, some people loved it, some people hated it, but people were talking about it. You know, and it was overnight I became this, I don't even know if it was a prince, whatever I was, I became this character with an accent and just completely did a whole 360 on the character. But I was able to just, like, I remember the first promo we were going to do.

I was going to do it regular accent, my normal accent now. And I think 10 minutes before the show started, he wanted me to do one line with an accent. 10 minutes before the show started, they told me he wanted me to do the whole thing. I'm just standing there rehearsing the promo, wanted me do the whole thing in an accent. And I was like, what? Are you kidding me? 10 minutes before. 10 minutes before.

And that's what a lot of people will never understand is that sometimes the things that go on right before you go out the curtain, you know, people just can't understand that unless they're in that situation. situation where it's you know I'm not the only person it's happened to but you know it was literally 10 minutes before and I remember uh I think actually trick Williams was in my one of my security at the time right yeah we're in the hat yes yeah he was and I remember that day man you know just a side note he I think had been at the performance center for two weeks only and uh you know I just was getting to know him and the other guy Denzel was the other guy I was just talking to him uh just asking him questions you know um getting to know them because I was like if this is to be something moving forward.

You know, I just, let me talk to these guys and make them feel comfortable and understand, man. He was telling me he just got to the Performance Center two weeks before, told me he played football South Carolina. And he's like, he's told to come up here, drive. He said he was nervous. We talked about it shortly after, or a couple years after. And he said his knees are shaking.

He felt like he was sweating, just felt so nervous being out there. But he's made a huge transition. I'd say, huge transition. Such a star. Such a star. Such a star. But I remember just going out there and I was like, okay, I'm going to give this 110%. I'm going to go out there and do this to the best of my ability.

And I was able to just dive so deep into the character and almost forget that I was me, you know, and just be this character. And I think it was easy because I wasn't being me. I was being something else, you know. And I remember getting a text from Terry Taylor, too, and him, you know, saying he could really feel that I was 100% involved in inside of this character. I felt like that was the time that things were clicking the most. It's similar to what Obafem he's doing. Yes. Yeah, for sure. You know, and I, we talk, I talked to him when he is fairly newer at the PC and explained to him my situation in the same thing.

But I think for him, I don't remember if he ever had a situation. where he was just went from no accent to accent overnight. I'm not sure if he started with it. Maybe like very early. And I always said even for myself, it was something that like I came on doing, you know, where it was like,

uh, this is who I am and it was presented this way initially. It would have been a lot different rather than just making that transition overnight. Right. It's like the Kofi Kingston thing. Coffey King's same thing. Wait a second. Same thing.

He's like, I thought you had an accent, right? And it's like when someone asked you that, right? What do you say? Like, it's like, they made me do it? You know what I mean? Like, it's kind of like, and he was, I think, Triple A, J asked him on live TV.

Like, I thought you had an accent, right? Like, I'm glad I was never put in that position. And that's the difference, right? If you would come in with this character that had the accent from day one, yeah. There would have been no questions. No questions about it. And I don't know.

Same with like Santino Morella. For sure, exactly, right? People to this day are like, what do you mean he's Canadian? Yeah. You mean he's not Italian? For sure, right? And it helped me having some Nigerian background and just kind of, of, we always used to joke as kids how strict Nigerian fathers can be.

You know, my dad was one of those, like, didn't take any nonsense. So I took a lot of how he was when we were kids, and I kind of like put that into this character and then put my own flavor on it as well, too. But I think, you know, that led to WrestleMania into Continental title. Win the IC title at WrestleMania 37. Yep. And that was a huge moment. That was the first WrestleMania after the pandemic.

I think it was like the half full rest of it. Yes, yeah, yeah. It was like before the show like the little tarp onto water was almost like leaking through it. That's right. Yeah, it was, it was. I was sitting next to a cardboard cut out of that last. I forgot they had those. I forgot they had those.

The crowd was full of half of cardboard. Yeah, for sure. But it was still a moment for me where, you know, I'll never forget that. At first again, like I said, I was really hesitant to do this. I was doing like those, we had, what are they called? The shows after Smackdown, I can't think of the names, but it was just like a talk show after Smackdown. I don't know why I'm drawn.

Talking Smack? Talking Smack, yes. And, you know, I'd get on there with, you know, Paul Heyman and Caleb Braxton at the time, and we just have fun, you know, and Hamel didn't even, you know, be talking to me about just how he could see how immersed I was in his character and just having fun with it. And, yeah, I think I don't feel like I've ever been able to, because the other times I've just been me, you know,

and it's like I'm not playing a character. It's hard just to go out there and someone tells you just be you. And it's like, okay, well, I feel like I would always do better with being something else, if that makes sense. Why was it a Nigerian drum match? That was interesting. Apparently, I'm the one who came over there. But that was, I have no clue where that came from. I don't know if that is...

Vince McMahon came up with the idea. I think that is... That was definitely his idea. I don't... Me and E were kind of like, okay, if this is what we're doing, we're going to do it. Why are there Kendo sticks in a Nigerian? These stairs.

And that was another thing, too, is that we kind of put... Because at first, I don't think we were going to have any of those... I think there was just going to be drums around the ring and stuff. So no weapons? Nothing. But we're like, can we have like this, you know... I think even the drums might have been E's idea or something. But it was just like, we need to...

have all the gimmicks we can, all the candlesticks, stairs, whatever we can to make it something, right? Because we don't know what it is. Nobody else knows what it is. So let's just make it whatever we want it to be. But man, that was a good time. The whole, that whole, and that was a pandemic where we were performing in front of, like, cardboard cutouts. And then we had the screen, LED screens, Thunderdome.

Good times, man. I had good times, like just memories of driving up. Because I live here in Orlando. So, like, driving up to Tampa, driving back after Smackdowns and just feeling a good sense of, man, this is, my career is going in the right direction. Were you able to appreciate that WrestleMania moment as it was happening at WrestleMania 37? For sure. I don't think I appreciated it enough after. I think at the time I was working with AJ Simm's Cement Factory with dieting and stuff. I worked with him, too.

Yep, I remember and you got fantastic. What a human, a wonderful human. That's great. Just changed my whole mentality on training in general, nutrition and everything. But we were working so hard leading up to that. And I think after WrestleMania, I didn't take time to enjoy that moment. I just kind of, the next day I think I was in the gym training legs again and right back to the diet where it was just like, I didn't really sit down to enjoy what happened.

And it wasn't until I look back now and I'm like, man, I didn't take a moment just to appreciate that, you know, and really understand what was happening. Because I've talked to a lot of guys through my career who've been in WW for many years, and they've never had a WrestleMania moment, right? Not even in Andre the Giant. They've just never been on WrestleMania. And for me to have, you know, a singles match on WrestleMania was... And you win a title.

Win a title was a pretty big deal. But I don't think I appreciated it enough at the time. It wasn't until after that I really thoroughly, truly appreciated it. Well, speaking of nutrition, this is something that, like, has become a huge passion of yours. Yep, for sure. So you somehow got ricochet into even better shape. Even better shape. For all in.

Yeah. So we, during my time, again, and I'll go back and tell the story, too, with WWB, I got to a phase where things just weren't happening. And I was like, I got to find a hobby. I got to find something to do that it just keeps me busy while I'm at home. Because I remember, ever since I started wrestling, even on the Indies, I would just, I'd wake up, go to the gym, and that would be my day. After the gym, the day was done. Of course, I'd wrestle on the weekends and stuff like that. But when my daughter was born, things changed. I had to take care of a baby. But like, even then, I just had so much free time that I didn't put to good use. And that went on for

years from the moment I started wrestling and was able to, wrestling was my main job until I decided to go back to school in 22, 23, just free time. What'd you go back to school for? Exercise science at first. So one day I woke up and was like, I went to Auburn University after high school. Went there for three years, probably accomplished a freshman's year amount of work in three years and uh you were having fun having fun having fun and i ended up uh getting i'm not a i'm not proud to say this but i end up getting uh i guess it would be the word of the time so first i had to gap some classes because i was it's not that i wasn't smart enough to do the work i just wasn't doing the work you know i'd get to periods of time where i wasn't going to class and i went

to a small high school i went to a military high school all boys so my graduating class was people, I think. Auburn University, my first class, was 300 people. And I just wasn't used to being the freedom that I had, the environment, that many people. I probably should have started a smaller school before going to Auburn. But I ended up being kicked out for just not completing work. And I had telling my dad that was wonderful.

You know, Nigerian dad who got to America because of his education. My dad was a type, and he always tells us that if he didn't get the highest grades in class, he would literally cry. He wanted to be leading his class in education. And, you know, his education is a reason that we were able to be born and raised in America. So for me to tell him that, hey, you know, academically, I'm just not doing well at Auburn. I got to take this next semester off, and I got to reapply and they'll see if they'll take me back. So he asked me what he could do, and I was like, well, I think I'm just going to work and save him a money and start. wrestling, you know, and I was 21 at the time, and he was like, okay. Yeah, we'll see how that

works for you. He's like, when it doesn't work out, I'll be here to say, I told you so. But anyway, that comes back to me, never finishing school at that time to waking up one day during my career and, you know, realizing that I'm just not really doing anything on TV. I have a lot of free time. I woke up one day and I told my wife, hey, I'm going to go back to school. And I think within the next day, I was enrolled in classes to get my bachelor's degree in exercise science. And I think at the time, again, going back to Auburn, I didn't really find anything I was passionate about. I went in as a pre-med student. They loaded me with, you know, the max amount of hours that you can get as a freshman. I just wasn't prepared for that. Coming back now, I wanted to be the guy who had

the best grades. I wanted to learn everything. I found something I really love, you know, diving deep into the human body and learning all the mechanisms behind. mind what makes it do what it does, especially when it comes to exercise. So coaching nutrition is a huge passion for your... Huge passion to me. It's wanting to help people and wanting to learn, again, you can talk to PhDs, and they're always talking about constantly learning, but for me, it's just mastering all this material. So fast forward, I get bachelor's, and then, again, I decided to go back down for my master's,

but I really wanted to focus on nutrition now. So I found a program in sports nutrition where, you know, hopefully I can end up working with elite athletes. But Rickashay texts me one day. And I think he might have Snapchat in me and sent me a picture of his obliques. And he's like, man, I need help getting rid of these. I was like, bro, let me help you. Let me be my experiment. Let's, you know, test some things out and see if I can.

Because I read all day, you know, and it's like, I apply to myself, but it's like I need to be able to apply this to somebody else. So I was like, let me be my guinea pig and let me just, you know, run some experiments on you. So within like two or three weeks, he starts like just changing, starts like, and he's already a naturally lean guy. Yeah. And within weeks, he just starts like just shedding, just shredding up, man. And I was like, damn, this is, you're hitting it faster than I expected. I didn't expect this from you. And what I was surprised about more was his commitment to what I was asking him to do.

And that's what let me know that he was serious about it too. What was the major change? I think it was just something structured, you know, and I think, not that he's like a guy who sits out here and eats, you know, fast food all day. Clearly. You know what I mean? Yeah, he doesn't do. But I think it was just finding something structured and just dialing it in. Dialing it in.

Dialing it in the macros. That's it. And I think what a lot of people need is someone who can, when the motivation fails, you just need someone who can hold you accountable. And he told me that he just didn't want to let me down. And I was like, you know, I think that was a huge factor. in his motivation. And then we're just going to start that as a fun little project. And then he said, hey, I got all in on this date.

I think I want to look the best I can for that. So then it became, okay, let's get you ready for all in. And I was like, you know, I've never really taken somebody through a phase of where they, you know, prepare for a show. Yeah, prepare for a competition and peak the week of the competition. But the difference with sports nutrition and bodybuilding is peaking for bodybuilding is different than peaking for. for a competition. You know, wrestling, I remember I did a lot of, you know, bodybuilding-style diets,

but the focus for wrestling is it is, we are doing physical work out there. We still need energy. We still need energy. So even though body composition is a good outcome, we still need to make sure you're focusing ready to actually perform in the match. And I always tell people, I'm like, you know,

not that you don't want to look good for a match, but how many times he come back from the match? And it's like, dang, this guy looks so ripped in the match, da-da-da, whatever, right? Very rarely. What they say is, man, you went out there and you killed it. You had a great performance, right? So I was like, this isn't going to be like a typical, you know, bodybuilding peak.

I'm going to try something different. And actually, I want you to peak for the competition and make sure that you, as we're going through this program, you are fully, your training is, doesn't lack. You know, you're getting the most that you can out of your training. I don't want that to, I don't want you to take a dip in your performance. Make sure your workouts are good. Make sure your energy levels are high. And when you get closer to the competition, we're going to focus on dialing you in

and making sure that you're ready to go out there. Whether it's a, you know, at the time, we didn't know what his match was, but as we got closer, we found out what he was doing. But within a couple months, he was texting me every week that, you know, the guy said this, these guys are saying that. Now people are starting to comment on here.

They're asking him if he's on performance enhancement drugs. And I was like, okay, That means we're just on the right track, man. And I think it was also what I have that a lot of people may not have when it comes of wrestling is I've actually been in that position. I know what it's like looking for food on the road or not being prepared and, you know, just helping people in wrestling understand that there's ways around certain things. And it doesn't always have to be, sometimes you just have to go with what's convenient, right?

Where it's sometimes convenience is better than, you know, the most optimal. that you can take. Well, you've figured it out. And I think that ricochet is probably the first of many people you work with. For sure. For sure. They've seen the results. Yeah, definitely.

And he posting that picture got like a lot of people, you know, message me. My thing was that once again, when I got released, I had an idea of wanting to go down this route. I just didn't think it would come this quick. And, you know, it kind of caught me off guard where I was like, damn, I got to start preparing for this quicker than I thought I would have to. So it's good. It's good.

And you clearly walk the walk, too. For sure. And that's another thing that, uh, I, I've learned from working with guys like Jay is another one, Jay Faruja, AJ style, not AJ Star, sorry. AJ Sims. And another guy that I've worked with, his name's Jack. He's a nutritionist out of Australia.

And when I look at these guys, you know, AJ is in shape all the time. Jay, he's in shape all the time. Jay has abs all the time. All the time. These guys practice what they preach. And I was like, okay, if you're going to be that guy that, you want to tell people how to eat and how to look or how you want to look, whatever it is, you have to walk that walk as well.

And I think it comes down to the discipline, right? And that's the main thing is discipline in all aspects of life, not just in nutrition. Yeah. Well, congrats, man. Thank you. Sounds like you've carved out a whole new career. For sure, absolutely. And this might help it even more.

Do you want people to get in touch with you? Absolutely. You know, everybody knows a handle. Come on now. There you go. Get in touch with me. I got you. I'll take care of you.

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Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight. Our new double espresso with ginseng extract. Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning. Let your morning change you. Discover Coffee Plus on Nispresso. I thought it was such a cool moment in WWE when you got to hold the new version of the United States. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you know you were going to be the first person to hold that new design?

I didn't know. I think at the time I was working with MVP, I think I got COVID at that time. And we were going into, I want to say Survivor Series. And I was so distraught because I know people were not being able to work. And I know how it is too, where you can miss out on something because of, or you miss it on an opportunity because something happened where, you know, one day it's this, you get COVID the next day. It's, hey, we decided to go a different direction.

So I think I got COVID going into that. So they did something where I don't think I was still the champion. And if I remember correctly, I think just. MVP was kind of holding it at the time, but he was going to be my challenger, or he was going to be my next opponent going into Survivor series. But I had no idea they were making that new title. When I saw it, and I think I was sitting at home and I saw them display it and P was there on TV with it, I was like, damn, it looked sick. It looked so sick. What I will say is the old model before that was, I mean, that's, that one is classic too, right?

Yeah, it's iconic. iconic and just the lineage of that title too, in general. What I do love is that I got a replica of both of them. Oh, that's great. It's nice. And you got the photo shoot where it's like double champ. Double champ, yeah, for sure. Out with the old end with the new.

Yep, you know. And again, at that time I didn't, that's another time I think besides the, doing it with the Nigerian character, I felt like, man, my career is on the right track. This is what I always imagined my career would look like. It was great. Those are good times. Again, pandemic time. That was PC pandemic, too, where it was like we're performing in front of NXT talent at the time.

Or they had that glass barrier around the performance center. Good times. I got to do stuff with Kevin Owens, Ray Mysterio, I think Austin Theory, Garza. There's another one I had with Alistair Black in there where we, I got a text, a call actually. I think the last match I had before this time was October. This was March or shortly after mania, the pandemic PC mania. So around that time.

So my match before that was October King of the Ring with Andrade. And I'm driving my kids in the car because, you know, they're just trying to get them to sleep. There's the only way at the time I could get him to sleep. Like they're, you know, we're all stuck in the house. My wife's working upstairs. she's out the office. I'm at home, you know, full-time dad. We're all taking a hit.

Everyone during that pandemic is a new life for everybody, right? But at the time, talent relations, Mark Carano calls me, and I see the 203 pop up on the Bluetooth in the car. And I was like, oh, damn. I'm getting fired right now. So he calls me and he's like, what are you up to? And I was like, I'm just driving the kids around. He's like, some crazy times we're living in now, right?

I was like, yeah. He's like, what are you doing right now? And I was like, or what do you, can you be at the PC in the next hour? And I was like, yeah, what do you need? He's like, well, there's 30 minutes that are unaccounted for for the raw after WrestleMania. He's like, we need you to go have a match. I was like, 30 minute match, you mean?

He was like, yes. Wow. In an hour. Four segments, eight minutes each, I think it was. I hadn't wrestled since October and I've never had this kind of time on TV. So I called my wife. like, hey, they need me at the PC within an hour. Are you able to, you know, she's working?

I was like, are you able to be with the kids right now? And, you know, I bring the kids home, get all my stuff together, drive right to the PC. And Allison and I put on a four-segment match for, and it was different because it was, we were taping it. So it wasn't like, you know, we had to do this all in one go. A lot of it at a time when they're doing those performance center matches, they, you know, tell us to cut and to redo things.

but I was so nervous about that match coming out the next day because I've just, I hadn't wrestled for so long. I didn't know if my performance was up to par. But everything that was said about that match was positive. So that was another, just the story that popped in my head is about around that pandemic time where it was just craziness. I didn't expect, things happened when you least expect them. And I definitely was not expecting that.

But we ended up going out there and having a great time. And we worked with Adam Pierce, who's another great human being. And we made it happen. But it's just craziness. You had a match with Braun Strowman where you go for the standing moonsaw? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he kicks you mid-air.

How did you guys come up with the idea for that spot? So that actually, that whole idea is neither mine or bronze idea. That was at the time, Elias, Drifter, is, his idea. So we were on live events and he just says, I have this idea. And at the time he was in, I think, Matt Bloom's class and I was in Terry Taylor's class. So he's like, I have this idea where you go for the Mousal and I just kind of kick you out of midair. And I was like, yeah, let's try it.

So the first time we do it, boom. And I kind of land similar to how Rhonda's and Terry, we watched it in Skull session in class. And Terry's kind of like, oh, why would you do that? Never do that again. It's dangerous or whatever. But I think that match I had with Braun, it was an ambulance match, if I'm not mistaken. And we, again, that's one of those random ones where I come to TV and it's like, hey, you're in the main event on Raw against Braun, who at the time was just, you know, killing everybody in an ambulance match. I think I think I was a tightest worldwide, too, if I'm not.

I think so. I think so. I was like, okay. You know, so I mentioned the idea to him. Braun, a little stronger than Elias. So we go to do it, and he kicks me. And I look like I just completely break my neck. Yeah.

You know, I was 100% fine after that. And I think that there's that and something I deal with Samoa Joe that I've seen just over and over again. And every now and then they'll pop up on my feet and I just kind of I see it over and over again. But so that idea came from Elias originally and I just said brought it to Bronos. I think this might be something cool. Yeah. So luckily nothing, no broken neck. or anything after that.

Speaking of the PC, you shared this special moment on Breaking Ground with the late Great Scott Hall where he's coaching you on your promos. Yep. What advice did you take from him in that moment that you took with you moving forward? Man, I couldn't tell you exactly what he said word for word, but the general advice and what I took from it was a confidence. for whatever reason and I think it just was because I wasn't used to

doing things like promo class and all that kind of stuff. When I was coming up on the Indies, it was just wrestling. But what I took from him was the confidence. And whether you know what you're saying or not, say it with confidence. You know, I feel like I got stuck in a point of time where it was like, you can just see me trying to remember words and you forget to be in that moment. and be the person that you need to be, you know.

And I think that at a point held me back a lot until I got into the character where I was doing the Nigerian work. But what I took from him and it was an honor for him to sit down and take that time with me. You know, I think he was sitting in on our class that day and on our promo class.

And I think I did something with the drill was to, for someone else to write your promo. and I think I was going into something with Finn Ballet at the time on NXTV. Can't remember who wrote my promo, but it's a good practice because a lot of the times we're not writing on stuff anyway. But what I took from him was be confident in what you're saying. Don't focus so much on what you're saying, but how you say it, you know, and present it that way. And even if you forget something, people don't know.

They don't know what you're going to say next. And I think we get so caught up when we're doing promos. And I was talking to Rickettsay about this, actually, in speaking perfectly. And when we have general conversations, the words never come out perfect. But for some reason, when we're cutting promos, people feel like, wrestlers and fans feel like everything needs to be said perfectly. So I think it's how you say it and having the confidence. when you say it's that old my angelo quote of people won't remember what you say or what you do but they'll remember how you made them feel how you made them feel and that's applies to wrestling a lot

yeah because you know you can come to a show and make a fan out of somebody who's never watched wrestling before or who maybe watch it as a kid and it's like oh this is fake stuff I don't watch it anymore right but you can change your whole view on it by making them feel a certain way yeah booker tea talks about that a lot is that uh making people feel a certain way you know and uh whether you make them love you or hate you, you make them feel a certain way. And they're going to remember that. You know, they're going to remember how you made him feel. So for me, a lot of the moments I have,

Kurt Engel is one of my absolute favorites, if not my favorite, coming up. And I remember a lot of his matches, but what I remember more is, you know, he's playing the guitar, the little arbenjo with, you know, Jimmy Crack on. I don't care, you know what I mean? Or sexy Kurt. Yes, you know what I mean? And doing, rapping against John Cena. and things like that.

The man who plays with boys promo? Yes, that was great. That was great. Oh, man. It's so good because, like, no matter what it was, it was, not only did he put his own flavor on it, but the way he did it was like, you can tell there was,

I'm not going to hold back. And he was never afraid to be the butt of the job. Never afraid to be the butt of Joe. Even though he's, probably the whoop, you know what I mean? Take anyone in the locker room. Anybody in the locker room. But he was like, you know,

I'm going to make this sacrifice for the better of the show, right? And that's why he's one of the greatest of all time. Absolutely. Because then he could turn it on in a moment. And it's like, damn, okay, I actually believe this guy is a killer now, where before you're thinking, ah, ha, you're just laughing at him, right? You know, so it's hard. Not everybody can find that, you know, and I think it might take,

a lot of us don't get the opportunity to find it. Some people, it just comes naturally, right? Yeah, people remember how you made it feel. How did you become Apollo Cruz? How did you get that name? So I knew a dude in high school, or not sorry, high school, but in Auburn. When I went to Auburn, I knew a guy called Apollo. And for some reason, I just, the name, I just liked the name.

I wasn't, I had taken like a Greek mythology class in high school, and I knew of Apollo. Because people think it's the Rocky character. People think that a lot of people think that, right? And the funny thing is, so, like, growing up in Africa for a good amount of my life, I didn't even watch any of the Rockies growing up. So, like, a lot of that stuff I didn't know until I came back and moved over here. But I remember Danielson had called me Apollo Creed on one episode of Smackdown which I'm accidentally live on TV. It was pretty funny when he's doing his general manager stuff.

But I knew this guy in college. His name was Apollo. I can't remember his last name. But for some reason, that name just sounded so powerful to me. And when I started wrestling, Uha Nation was what I started as, and that's something that came through high school. But I knew when you get to WW, it's like, you're going to have to change your name. And I was like, man, I want to be Apollo.

It wasn't something that like I was like, you know, the day I started training for wrestling, I was like, I'm going to be Apollo. But once I realized that eventually, you know, of course, in my head I knew I was getting at WW and I knew I was going to have to change the name. I was like, I want to be Apollo. So when they started asking me, for names, they asked. It was at the time where a little bit before the Cruze Away classic, everyone started coming in with their own names after that. But like, we had to present names that

were realistic, but not our name. So, like, I remember I'd asked a ton of people for help with names. I got a bunch of lists, but nothing stood out to me. So what I did, I just took Apollo and put that as every, I sent in like 30, 40, 50 names. I put Apollo as the first name on all of them and just a bunch of, like, random last names. And Cruz wasn't one of the last names I put on any one of them. But I get a text from Matt Bloom when the name got approved. And it was like, what do you think of Apollo Cruz? I was like, I got Apollo.

I don't care what the last name is. Yes, I'll take it. So that's how it came about. It was just me, you know, being almost like obsessed with this name for whatever reason. It just spoke to me. And I think that just happened sometimes. But when they started asking for the list of names, I just put that as every single first name and then just a bunch of random last names.

What's the same spelling as Terry Cruz? Same spelling as Terry Cruz. And when we first started with this name, or when I first started with this name, I remember him and I were getting tagged in a lot of stuff because we, I guess, you know, I had a goatee at the time, baldhead, you know, our skin color is pretty similar. People were making it. So people thought you guys looked so. People thought really similar.

Maybe I'll say son or, you know, I want to say he's that old, but his brother maybe. but I'm not that old either. So people were tagging us in a lot of stuff together, and he just kind of made a funny comment about liking the new name and all that. So I think that was pretty cool. I remember I did an interview. This is another funny story with I was doing media with WW. Earlier in my career when I just got the name.

And I think the people doing the interview legit thought I was Terry Cruz. Because they were asking me about a new movie. And I was like, damn, this is new information to me. I didn't know I was doing a movie, but that's great. But then when we looked it up after, Terry Cruz had a new movie coming out. And they thought I was him. I think it was an Adam Sallan movie.

I can't remember which one it was. They thought legit thought I was Terry Cruz. And I was like, yes, yes. We didn't realize until after the fact. But the interview is legit. What a compliment. I'll take it. He's very successful.

Very successful. Very successful. In great shape. He did a very small thing in WCW. Yes, exactly. Right. So maybe that's where the confusion came. When you were, you know, 12 years old.

Exactly. Right. You know, it has nothing to do with the fact, our names and say any of that. It's just, yeah, the WCWs. I think fans thought it was Apollo Creed, Terry Cruz, and just like mash them together. I can see that, though. I can see that. Yeah.

And it's funny because, like, we don't get a chance to tell these stories, right? Where, you know, people just make assumptions of whatever they make assumptions for. And then that ends up becoming the reality of it. Well, then you had, like, four months where you lost your last name. Yes. You were just Apollo. Yep. And that was an unfortunate event where, you know, from what I was told,

they didn't want any cruise or any kind of affiliation with the Parkland shooting at the time in Florida. So his last name was CRUZ. They just didn't want any kind of connection with that in any kind of way. So I was just Apollo for a second, which to be honest, that's what I originally wanted, was just Apollo. But they wanted a last name at the time. But that's interesting that you say that, that you want to be Apollo? because fans were so upset that you lost your last name.

They were. And they were like fighting for you. Yeah, yeah. But it's interesting to hear now years later, they're like, oh, no, I wanted to be Apollo. But I think, again, it's one of those things where if I would have came out just with Apollo and the last name was never lost, you know, that would have been an issue, right? Where fans would have been so worried about that because it would have just been.

Well, it was the same time when Austin Theory lost his first name. Yeah. He was just Theory. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm not sure the story behind his, but I remember he just became, It's just one of those, the boss wakes up one day and this is what it is. Yeah.

But then there's like, there's like, Cesarro lost his last thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it worked. It worked out. It worked out well, right? I forgot he was Antonio Cizaro at first. Yeah, lost his first. Yeah.

Yeah. Didn't Roussev, same thing. I think anyone? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So those a couple of them were. Some, a couple were. And that's probably why they were playing around with it with Apollo in theory.

For sure. I think I would have loved to just be Apollo. It has a good ring to it. It's, when people. chan it, they don't really, they just chant Apollo anyway, there's never... You can't really chant Apollo Cruz. Apollo Cruz. It just doesn't work. That kind of works. So these are they, Apollo, I think. So if they,

maybe you could change it in the, in the, change a tone of it, right? And it works the cruise. But the way they chant it is just, just the first name. Apollo. There it is. You know what I mean? The clap. Exactly. Just get rid of the cruise and just throw the clap in there. I don't know. That's a long chant. It is, though. I remember we did something with Titus World Cruz can't lose, and that was the first time we did anything with, or any kind of way we used the last name.

Cruz Can't Lose is very chantable. Very channable. And that was a good one. I wish I became a shirt or anything. But those are some fun times too, Titus for a wife. How did you guys get paired together? I think that was another. What they wanted, I think, was Titus to help, you know, kind of bring some more just personality

out of me. And, you know, Titus, have you ever been around him? He's just, he's the same person no matter where he is, right? So he's just phenomenal human being. It doesn't matter where he's at. He's going to be Titus, you know. And he helped, I loved, I rode around with Titus a lot, too, while we're on the road doing live events and everything. And, you know, he's connected through everything. Titus has a connection with anyone. We got to work out at University of Oregon. Nebraska, UCLA, San Francisco 49ers facilities, like anywhere, any city we'd go to, we get to work out at the football facility or the college facility too, which is, I think Penn State, we just, so many amazing places we got to trade. They connected everywhere. But they threw us together.

We just started having fun. I just like, I saw how he was, like, and just kind of let himself go on TV. He wasn't, like we talked about with Kurt. He just wasn't afraid to just make fun of himself and just have fun. Be silly. Like, he didn't take it too serious, right? Where it's like, sometimes I get on TV and I just, I want to have to be the serious guy, right? Where it's like, just have fun.

So that helped a lot. And then they brought in Dana and Tazawa, which I couldn't even tell you how those two gone involved with it. But we had some good times. When we, I remember when he was coming down for the world's greatest Royal Rumble and he ended up slipping and almost went under the ring and they tried to recreate that slip and, you know, just having fun with him, man.

And like, luckily for him he didn't, we didn't have those LED boards up at the time. So, you know, he just took that spill under the ring. But I like, what I liked about him is that he just turned it and made it something fun, you know what I mean? Where it was just always having a good time, never taking himself too serious. And again, like, always has,

looks out for the interests of others, you know, over himself. He has some good times of Titus. And he's still staying contact up this day. So good human being. When you tore your peck in that match against Johnny Gargano, did you immediately know? Immediately. As soon as it happened,

I was taking a move, and it's not anybody's fault. It's just the thing that, something that happens in wrestling, but I was taking a backstabber from in the ropes. And what I failed to do, I guess so essentially it was my fault. is to kind of keep my arms tucked and I whipped them back like that,

which in hindsight, I'm lucky I didn't tear both of them. But the moment it tore, I felt it immediately. I felt like a burning sensation, and I felt just all my strength just leave my body. I just was like, oh, I don't feel like I could lift up my kids right now. Were you in a crazy amount of pain? No, no, it didn't hurt that bad. I just knew, and I was like, oh, that's my peck.

And I ended up finishing the match. I processed everything real quick. I was like, okay, I don't have to lift anybody. I don't have to, sorry, lift him. I don't have to, I think we're doing something. Tamaso was getting involved, and I think I kind of was like slow to do that. And it just, I just couldn't move any faster. But I instantly knew that it was torn.

We know our body. You know, you know when somebody's not right. And it just was, I could feel the, I just felt it ripped too, you know, right out. I just felt it ripped. And I get to the back and it was like, you know, maybe it's not as bad as we never know until we extra, I was like, no, this is, this is it. It's definitely a torn. I knew for a fact. It didn't bruise up like how Cody's was.

It wasn't that bad, but I knew it and what sucked was, I feel like I was just starting to pick up some momentum. Like I was getting, doing things on TV. I was in these backstages with a lot of the tag teams at the time, just doing random stuff. But I was still getting, I think they're trying to find something. What, after that, coming back from that, it was just never the same. same. That was kind of when I realized things were just kind of on a more of a downfall than an

upswing. So I'm fortunate, but those kind of things happened in what we do. And I'm grateful for the situation, though. You know, it was, maybe it was just my body telling me just to slow down, you know, it just always tried to take the positive out of everything. I didn't know why it was happening at the moment, but, you know, maybe it was just time to just slow down, you know. Do you feel like the door is still open in WWE? I do. I feel like, uh, I do because I feel like I left a, you know, what I try to do is, and not that the place is in Shambles, but I try to leave, uh, and I don't want to, saying leaving places better than they were when you got there is, it's a weird thing to say that, to say

in that situation. I can't fully say that in that situation, but I try to leave, I guess I try to leave the most positive outlook I can, no matter why I go. Um, I, um, I, I feel like I never got in trouble. Not that I feel like I never did get in trouble. I never did anything that was against the company policy or anything like that. So I think if that option was on the table, I definitely would be a likely candidate. If they were looking at me, I think it would be, I think that option would be there for sure. But it's not something I'm sitting here, just waiting and dying to happen.

You know what I mean? at the same time. It sounds like your focus is elsewhere. Yeah, yeah. It's just, I've, like I said, when I first got released, I was doing all these things to try to find who I was. And that just naturally came over these last couple, couple months. It's, I've, start with the nutrition and everything.

It's kind of like, and I'm still working on my master, so that's taking up a lot of my time. But it's just like, I've dove so deep into that that it's just, I've almost forgot that I was a wrestler, you know, and it's crazy to say because that's a huge part. of my life. And at one point, a big part of your identity. Huge part of my identity.

I remember as a kid, it was all I wanted to do. When I decided I wanted to be a wrestler, it was the only thing that I wanted to do. There was, my dad would always say, don't put all your eggs in a basket. I put all my eggs in the wrestling basket. I was like, there's nothing out there for me. Well, it worked. Nothing. I'm going to WWE and that's that.

But I realize now, so when I left, it's like, man, what do I do? It's a certainty, right? But it's no, just take that same mentality that you had and you knew you were going to make it to WW. Take what you've learned inside of WWB and apply that to whatever else you want to do in life. And I think it's good to, because wrestling's not going to last forever for any of us. And I'm fortunate enough to have an 11-year career inside WWB and blessed. And if the opportunity came to go back, I would, you know, I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't take it.

Of course, you know, people would say I would never go back. I would definitely go back. You know, it's, I really enjoyed working there. I enjoyed the people I worked with. It's the pinnacle, right? You know, it's what we, a lot of us strive to to get to. And even if it wasn't, even if it was, you know, A, W or TNA, I feel like I would still love to be a part of a wrestling company where I could wrestle on TV. being on TV, performing in TV,

and performing in front of a large amount of people like that, there's nothing like it. The rush that you get from it, the high, the, you know, just being out there live and performing, there's nothing like it. So it's not something that I'm saying is done completely. But at this moment, I am focused on other things and making sure that when it's all said and done

that I have something to do when wrestling is done. You know, because 39, you know, I still got what? 40, 50 more years, hopefully to do more than that probably. It's like, okay, I'm not going to wrestle that long, but I can't just not do anything, right? So it was about finding something, too, that I can do that doesn't demand is, it's not as physically demanding as wrestling, too. So I still want to wrestle. And I'll be going to Japan again, wrestling at Dragon Gate again this week. And I got some other bookings coming up, something in Spain and Italy coming up in November as well.

And then England again in October. But I think for now I'm okay, just kind of picking and choosing what I want to do, but really focusing on getting, you know, my nutrition business on a role and really diving into that world and potentially working with, you know, athletes and other sports as well when it comes to nutrition. Well, that and kids are only kids for so long. Kids are kids for so long. They take up a lot of our time, too, where it's like, well, I say they take up a lot of our time,

but that time goes quick. And how lucky are we to have that time? Man. I think about that all the time. It's a blessing because it's being a father. Every time Father's Day comes around, I feel like I'm, sometimes I feel like I don't even deserve, because kids are so innocent, so sweet.

Sometimes I wonder like, damn, what did I do to deserve to be, you know, what I deserve to have this? My sister hasn't, she's older than me and she's, you know, struggled with having kids and doesn't have any. And, you know, sometimes I'll text her about, man, today's a rough day with the kids and everything. And then I think of someone in her situation who, you know,

at this moment would do anything to have kids. And there's a lot of people out there like that, right? And it's like... My wife and I always say these four words, how lucky are we? How lucky. How lucky are we? How lucky. There's nothing like it, you know.

These, we have two kids. A girl and a boy. How lucky do we have this two beautiful creations. How old? My daughter's three. Okay. All the son is 20 months. Oh, man. You're in the, you're in the, you're in it.

You're in it. Man. You know what I miss? I'm like, a lot. It's changing diapers. Enjoy that one. Enjoy that one. I miss it.

I miss it. Because it's. Well, I've wanted diapers now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That part is, uh. You know, it's, I love that my daughter's like, Daddy, I need to go pee. You take me pee in and like, yeah.

How important do I feel? Right, right. Like something so small that you could easily take for granted, right? Yeah. Yeah. Three is a very fun age for, they're all fun ages and they come with different things, but three is a fun age for girl and boys. Three is so fun right now because like in the middle of the night if one of my daughter's

stuffies falls out of the crib or her blanket falls off. Daddy! You can hear her on the monitor. Yeah, yeah. And I like jump out of the night. I bet. It could be two in the morning. It doesn't matter. Jump out of bed. It doesn't matter. She needs you. So does she call you overnight over your wife? It depends on the week. Okay. And like this week has been a lot of dad, dad, daddy. And I'm like, yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My wife is, it goes through phases, I think, where, and now, again, it's so different. My son, boys are a whole other, their whole other beast when they get to, when they get a little older. I feel like the primal instincts just start.

taken over and they want to test those waters and test, test you as like, see who's, who's a man, who's really the man here, you know what I mean? How old is your son? He's seven. Seven. And he's, uh, I love watching him as he's grown because he's become, like, obsessed with Michael Jackson. Like, he, he's got a couple of his outfits.

I think a smooth criminal outfit, he's got the thriller outfit and one from the Billy Jean, I believe. but we showed him Michael Jackson one day I was like, let me show you guys some real music which you guys listening to that ain't music so we showed him thrilling one day and within months he became obsessed with Michael Jackson

and he just is just imitating everything he sees in his videos and dances just like him it blows my mind how that's beautiful adaptable and how they soak up everything right I love that idea that when kids are young

they feel like they can do anything Anything. And where does that get lost? I wonder. I think about that all the time. What is it going to love? Yeah, when do you, at what point do you get in your life where you go, I can't do that anymore?

I feel like that's us as parents sometimes putting it on them, right? Those restrictions that they get, or maybe they're teachers where it's like, you know, I hear, I listen to this podcast where he talks about when he was a kid, it's Andy Ficella. And he says that, you know, he talks about. a lot of the times where you tell a teacher what your dreams are and they shut it down like oh you can't be that you know you got to think more realistic it's like us telling you know teacher i want to be a wrestle when i grow up and you know they shut it down no you can't do that you have to go to school and do this and this not that you don't you don't have to go to school but i think a lot of it gets our dreams and

hopes and feeling the feeling of being of doing whatever gets shut down by adults essentially who have been because their dreams their dreams have got shut down who've been jaded by life right where it's like no, you got to think realistic because it didn't happen for me, so it's not going to happen for you, right? Well, there's two paths on that, right? You're either, I want to do this thing because you said I couldn't do it. 100%. Or I want to do this thing because you believed to me. Absolutely. And it's funny that, like, you either use it as something that detracts you or something that fuels you. That fuels you. And it's, you can be either that either one, right? And you hope that it's the feel, right? Where it's like, I don't want you to hear something for somebody and it crushes your whole dreams. I want you to hear something. something that negative from somebody like that. And if you come tell me, trust me, I'll make sure that you know otherwise. But even if you don't tell me, I want you to be the type of

person that uses that. And it drives you to prove anybody wrong who's told you that. I guess that's when you start to believe what other people are saying. And that's what it comes to. The influence from friends, right, that the kids get where I'm noticing that a lot now with my daughters, is, you know, just to end my son too, the heavy influence and like... What do you believe? Yeah. Because if I were to say to you, man, you look so dumb because you have yellow hair, you go... Okay, cool.

I do not have yellow hair, so what? Yes. But if someone says something that has just a little bit of truth maybe in it, that makes you start doubting yourself? It makes a question. Now you start, and it becomes bigger and bigger, right, when you start thinking about it, right? Yeah. But another thing I learned is, um, through stoicism, is that we suffer often more in

our imagination that we do a reality, right? Where it's like a lot of the times we just create these situations in our head that don't even exist. They don't exist and they manifest and it becomes our reality, right? Where now we impose that on, you may impose that on our kids, right?

So I think it's important for us too to understand that like something's in your head it may have some truth to it, but it's not true, right? You know, and never let that doubt creep in because once it creeps in and if it starts growing and growing it, it will shut down your whole existence, right? And it'll stop you from doing something. What could you have been, right?

Or on the flip side. I can't remember who it was. It was a brilliant entrepreneur that said they had one teacher that said, you're really smart. Yeah. And that guy said, I don't know if that teacher actually meant it or. if they just said that to everybody. Yeah. But I believe.

Yeah, and that's all that matters. Isn't that crazy? That's all that. One comment like that changed their life, right? Yeah, just one sentence. Yeah, for sure. And I tried to, you know, we have moments with the kids and stuff. There's moments every day.

Not every day is perfect. But one thing I try to make sure to ingrain in them and to remind them every day is confidence and making sure that they know, you know, kids want to, do anything to to please us or to impress us, right? But I want them to believe that whether anyone is impressed by whatever you do or whether anyone else believes in you

or says they're proud of you of whatever, you be proud of yourself, be confident in yourself and know your ability what you're capable of and what you can do. My daughter now has been working on or round off backhand spring and dance. And she recently finally hit it without someone spotting her. and she's so determined.

I see the determination in her and certain things that she wants to do. But then like something will happen for reading or something where it's like, oh, it's so hard, I can't get it. And I'm like, hey, look, remember how hard you worked on your backflip or how hard you worked on your basketball?

You take that same mentality. And I know it's easier said than done, but you take that now and you apply it here. And you use that motivation, the way you're driven to do that, and we just put it here. And you make it happen here. And you will happen.

And it's just helping them understand that like, oh, yeah. I do know how to work hard. I do know how to go after what I want. Now it's just, let's just kind of put that focus somewhere else, right? And make it happen over here. Sounds like we've got a lot of mindset stuff to talk about. Oh, yeah. That's a whole other podcast.

Part two when you come back. That's a whole other podcast that we could get. And that came from me from, I hated reading as a kid. Like, I, for some reason, school was just like, and I don't know if it's because the way my father was, but school and reading, I just, and maybe I just didn't find books that I liked. I thought that we had to read these novels,

that novels were just never my, I didn't have an imagination to sit and read. I was even reading The Line, the Witch, and the Wardrobe to my daughter recently, and I'm reading, and I just, I can't see what I'm reading in my head. My type of books are, you know, self-development. Biographies, more things like that. I'm the same way.

You know, I just, I can't do the novels. But as I started reading more over these last, you know, five, six years, I'm so mad at myself that I did discover this as a younger child because there's just so much information, so much good information out there that we can take and not only apply to ourselves, but help with other people or help with kids too. Visit BetMDMdm Casino and check out the newest exclusive. The Price is Right Fortune Pick. BetMGM and GameSense remind you to play responsibly.

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I'm excited for the nutrition thing you have going on right now. Thank you. Thank you. I can't wait to see all the clients you get from this conversation. Man, it's going to be getting a lot of DMs, okay? I'll have to, you'll have to send me an invoice for what you need for the cut. When you had a goatee and people thought you look like Terry Cruz, now that you have the full beard, do you ever get 50 cent? So I used to get 50 cent in college, you know, and I think I didn't do any, I didn't do myself any justice by trying not to look like him. I'd wear like the hats and the do rags.

You know, all I was missing was a bulletproof vest. But, you know, and I was a, you know. And he was jacked too. He was jacked too. I read the tank tops. I never got those G-un-in-on ones that he had, but I had like tank tops. People would always tell me I look like fit. I loved it too because he was like the hottest thing at the time, you know, and like his get rich of that trying to just come out.

And I'm like, hell yeah, I look like 50s. So, yeah, that was, I used to get that a lot when I was younger. I haven't got it recently, but I do just randomly get like, and I don't know if it's because they think of wrestling on TV, but almost everywhere I go, someone to say I look like, you look familiar, you look like somebody I know or something like that. And I, you know, uh, and you don't want to be like, well, actually, yeah, it's because I'm a former intercontinental champion, former United States champion.

I try to, oh, I try to drag that out as long as I can. Like, I try to like just, you know, avoid that as much as possible, but they'll keep going on and going on. And I'm like, you know, my... If we go to high school together? That's it. Yes, yes. All right. See you later, man. I'm out. No, that's not it. That's not it. And I'm, you know, I try to, uh, people, it's funny because I got, when I started going back to school, I actually had to go on campus as I'm wrestling, too.

And one of my professors was like, man, you didn't tell me you were Apollo Cruz. And I was like, yeah, I'm not just going to walk into class and be like, hey, guys, I'm Paulo Cruz, W.O.C.R.R. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, it's just, it's funny that when people say that, because if you were to do that, they'd look at you different, right? Of course. You know, so it's just funny. This guy thinks he's important. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I'd never walk in a room expecting or anywhere expect anybody to know who I am. It's funny when I started, my kids were old enough to, and I'd be out with them and they'd realize I'd get recognized and stuff. The way they'd look when they first, they got used to it over the years, but like, first of all, if you recognize me, you have to be a huge wrestling fan because I'm not like, you know. They're a big main event fan. That's it, the main event fan.

You definitely made a bit fan. But they'd look at me funny. Like, Daddy, do you know that guy? Is that your friend? Every time they'd ask, is that your friend? Is that your friend? And I'm like, how do I explain this to these guys? You know, because they didn't really, even now they don't really watch wrestling that much.

And my daughter especially didn't like watching it because I'd be getting beat up most of the time. So she was, I remember I had a match with Omas and he gives me his finish, boom. And my son was watching that night. And he's, you know, my wife texts me like, hey, do you mind FaceTime and Kai? His name's Kai because he, I think he's a little worried from the match. So I called him just to let him know as okay. But you could tell, he wouldn't say it, but you could tell, like, he was really worried about me. was just acting normal.

You can just tell, like, he was really, really worried about it. And trying to get him to understand the performance side of it, it just doesn't click yet. You know what I mean? So it's funny to see how they react when they've been a couple of live shows too and all that. And it's just funny how they react when I come back after the match. I'm going to ask you my final question. Absolutely. You'll appreciate this as someone who is into stoicism.

Yep. gratitude is just a huge thing for me. Absolutely. And I start my day by saying out loud three things I'm grateful for. Yep. So I can focus on the things I have. For sure. Rather than being angry about the things I don't have.

Absolutely. I do it before I go to bed as well. Yep. So right now as we sit here, what are three things you're grateful for? Man, family is one of them. I think another practice in solacism too is a thing's called this positive reflection. and then there's a negative, right? Where it's like, imagine life without these things that you don't have.

You know, and I've practiced that too, where it's like, imagine you woke up tomorrow and everything that you have, family, everything is just gone. So this is supposed to help us be more grateful for the things that we do have. Health, of course, is another. Family health. And there's a lot that I'm grateful for. But if I was an era down with one, I think my life experiences. I'm grateful to experience everything that I've experienced in life

because it's made me who I am today. Like I said, as a kid, I didn't. I get made fun of a lot for being dark skin as a kid. I hate it. I would always ask my dad, like, why am I the darkest member in my family? Why is it? And it just would eat me alive.

But I'm grateful for those experiences because it's made me so much more appreciative for who I am for my skin color, afford, you know, my race and everything like that. So, uh, my life experiences, health and my family. Um, and my family holds me down through everything. You know, I'm sure you can understand that where it's just no matter what I am, if I'm on TV, if I'm not, my family looks at me the same way. Yep, because when you go home, you're always dad. Always dead. And you're always the husband. Always. That's it. You know, everybody else may see you something different, but to my kids,

I'm just dead. And, uh, I think that's the most humbling thing. that, uh, and that's such a special thing too that like you're a dad because they were born. Yes. Yes. You know, like they, they call you dad. Yeah. Sometimes it's weird. Like I'm like, you weren't a dad until that moment. Until that moment. And now we're responsible for it. And only those two people. Those that's it. That's it. That's it. And I feel like when they talk to my, their aunts and uncle, my sister and brother, uh, and they're like, my dad, I feel like it's still

weird for them. And it's weird for them. I wonder, I'm like, what is my sister think that these guys are calling her young, foolish brother? Like, my dad, you know what I mean? Like, it just is, because she's seen me the whole life, right? And it's like, sometimes I wonder, like, as, like, how am I dead? You know what I mean? It's crazy. I'm responsible for other people. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's, how about you? What do you hear of three things? Oh, man, turning it around on me. I love it. Absolutely. Family for sure. I know how that's super cliche.

Yeah. But they are my everything. Yeah. And everything that I do is with them and mine. For sure. My wife is, I feel like me and my wife were put on this earth to find each other. Yeah.

Like we are the perfect match. She is my favorite human being. 100%. I love her so much. And because of her, we got to have these two beautiful children. Right. Logan and Cooper.

Yep. So that's number one. Yep. Number two is opportunity. For sure. I like that. And the opportunity that, like, I have to share this conversation with you. Yeah.

Shannon Moore was in here before you and Scotty Too Hottie was in here this morning. Wild. What a, how is this my day? This is just a Wednesday in Orlando. That's awesome. Like, this is what you do, right? Just, you know, I think about that all the time. What a blessing.

And, like, it's what you get to do with those opportunities to for sure. I'm grateful for. Yep. And then number three, man, I'm just grateful for pro wrestling. Yeah. I've been a fan

my whole life and like really became a hardcore fan around the attitude era. Yep, for sure. And I remember like, that's mine. That was me too. Going to shows and sitting in the nosebleeds

and like I also remember going to a TNA show in 2007 where like I waited it online so I could try to buy front row tickets for this house show in Oswald, Dario, Canada. Were they having a six-sided ring at that? Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember seeing, man. Everyone was at that show. I always, this and AJ and Eric Young. I remember seeing TNA the first time and I was just like, what is this? Me too. I've never seen, like, because W.W.E. wasn't doing that.

Or WWF even at the time wasn't doing that, right? And I see TNA for the first time. I'm just like, what in the world am I watching, man? Where did these guys come from? I love that style of wrestling. So, yeah, I think pro wrestling. Yeah. And like, I love, I love,

that I get to be a fan. For sure. And I get to take in these moments as a fan. I also love that I get to have a conversation with the person behind the character. Absolutely. And learn like what makes that person tick. Yeah. And like I'm so grateful that through these conversations of me selfishly asking questions that I just, I've always wanted to know the answer to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That other people that are watching get to go, oh man, I've always wanted about that spot with Braun Strow. Absolutely. Or, man, that WrestleMania 37 match. Yeah, for sure. I'm grateful. for that. That's awesome. So thank you for making this happen. Thank you. Thank you for having me.

This is also we say grateful for those opportunities. The hard work put in, it can't be forgotten too, though. Don't forget it at that far. You made it happen to. Thank you. Thank you. But honestly, I, you know, I appreciate you having me. This is, I haven't really talked about anything publicly since I love it. I don't have any, like, like, I got to get this off my chest type feelings. But it's nice just to come in and have a conversation about. Sounds like you left in great terms. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And, uh, happy with the way, you know, things work out and, and the things that I've got to do. So it's, it's a blessing. And I'm, again, I'm grateful for you having me on. Well, thank you, man. Absolutely. Absolutely. We'll have to get that part too for the mindset talk.

No hours on that. For sure. Thank you. Where some see heroes and other see egos. Bloomberg sees the era of billionaire athletes. A fad to some. the future of money to others. We see crypto's trillion-dollar swings, the end of jobs, or the end of human struggle. We see the endless funds fueling the AI hype. While others follow the noise, we follow the money.

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