Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Big E: The New Day, Career Ending Injury, Becoming WWE Champion, BIG MEATY MEN SLAPPING MEAT

Episode Date: June 25, 2026

Preorder Big E's new book "How I Got Over" at https://howigotover.com Ettore Ewen (@WWEBigE) is a former WWE Champion and panelist best known as Big E. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Oakland, CA to discuss his upcoming memoir titled How I Got Over, why now was the right time to write the book, overcoming many physical and mental struggles over the course of his career, winning Money in the Bank and then the WWE Championship, his career-ending injury that occurred during a match on SmackDown, being kicked out of The New Day and the follow-up, KofiMania, original plans for The New Day, Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods leaving WWE, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. Van Flee! It is so good to see you. That's good to be here, man. I appreciate you. We've been talking about doing this for a long time, and you kept saying,

we'll do it at some point, man. We'll do it when I have something to talk about. Well, you definitely have something to talk about now. Yeah, yeah, I was kicking the can on this for a while, so I appreciate your patience. But yeah, man, I wanted to hop on. I knew I had a book in the works that I'm never one to like to talk about, I got this thing coming, got this thing coming. You know, when the time's right,

I'll let you know, and the time is now. So I'm very excited to talk about. It's interesting, I was talking to my partner about, it's interesting naming something because you have this loose idea, but once you put a name on it and now, like, your publisher's putting it out, but anyways, the book is how I got over. And it's pre-sales are now live, so I'm excited to sit down and talk about it. And for me, man, the idea of sitting down to write a memoir about my life and my career, for me was not something that really excited me.

But really a lot of this was, I had my creative. partner, Johnny Davenport, who I think the world of, who's designed our gear with the new day. He designs gear for a ton of talent and has for a long time. He first kind of put that spark in me for writing a book a year, several years ago. But at the time, it was like, I don't want to sit down and write about my life. That felt too self-aggrandizing. But then I had that Players Tribune article, Sauer. And man, the reception for that, seeing how many people were talking about it or texting me about it, even the people at Players Tribune, told me that internally, they hadn't had an article that was kind of this buzzy. And there's

so many big names that write on that platform. And actually, I was also, my article was included in a book on the best sports writing pieces of 2025. And the only Players Tribune article ever to be placed in that, like, prestigious book series. So I think all of that feedback and seeing how people connected, not with, hey, here's a guy who got to play football and wrestled. Like, that wasn't what I was getting the feedback on. It was about my mental health journey. And for me, man, how I got over is just so important because I think there's so many people who are quietly struggling with their mental health. You look at me and I'm this, you know, throughout my career as a wrestler, especially in the new day, I'm this bright, colorful, obnoxious, goofy

character. But oftentimes I would go home and I was still struggling with my mental health and and if I even wanted to be here. And the worst of my mental illness, which I really dive into, was in college, ages 19 to 23, were the worst years of my life. And I'm so thankful because I never could have envisioned all the things that I got to do when I was 22 years old and didn't want to be alive. I could never fathom getting to be with WWE and travel the world, eventually finding love, being in TV shows and commercial.

commercials and movies. But it's not even really about all the trappings or about the money or the accolades. It really, like for me, I never fathomed getting to a place where I was truly at peace, where I was content with myself. So I just really wanted to write a story of hope for other people who are struggling. So yeah, man, I'm really excited to sit down and talk to you because I think I think it's just mental health is so vitally important, especially now. Man, you are so open with your experiences in this book. You are, it's raw, what you speak about. Were there certain topics that were difficult for you to write about?

I think they would have been difficult if I started writing the book a few years ago, but not really. I've really been excited about this idea of Sterling Kay Brown talks about being naked with your clothes on. That idea of being so transparent and open and honest. and honest with yourself as well. So for me, the last few years, that has been the thing that's excited me is I want to make, I want to make art, shows, books, or whatever it is. I want to make things that are raw, that are honest, that are open.

Because I think a lot of times when you see someone who has attained something in life, when you see someone who's on TV or doing certain things, you think, oh, they are free of problems or free of cares. but I tell you, like, I shared a locker room with so many people. I think there's so many people who gravitate to pro wrestling because there's this hole inside of them that they're trying to fill. And I talk a lot in the book about that hole I was trying to fill. And I think a lot of us deal with imposter syndrome. A lot of us quietly fight our own mind.

So I wanted to just kind of shine more light on this myth that so many people have about people who are public figures and thinking that life is easy or smooth. And that's not to say that, that I want you to feel, to say, oh, what was the guy who was making millions of dollars who's on, that's not the point. But I think when we can understand that the human experience is so universal and that whatever walk of life you come from, that so many of us experience so many of the same struggles, maybe some of us on TV are better at masking them. But that doesn't mean that we don't have the same fights or similar fights. So I just thought the more I could be open and honest, the more I would be able to connect with people who are struggling.

right now. The great thing about wrestling, aside from just being a pro wrestler, I feel like wrestling is just, it accepts everybody. It's like, it's the island of misfits. It is. Just welcome, join us. That's a cool thing. No, it is. And when I got to FCW, there was so much of that. I looked around and, you know, we have, so in FCW, there are guys like in the same building. We're in this warehouse in Tampa. And right next to me is Roman Rains, who's going to go on to become a big movie star. He's Leiaqui at the time. You know, I shared a ring with Seth Rallens.

Woods and I spent a lot of time in FCW together. But there's also guys who wrestled on the Indies for a decade plus, who are never going to end up on the main roster. There are guys who, there's people from all walks of life, varying forms of success in their career and whatnot. But you have a real hodgepodge of characters, of some guys who come from this race, wrestling lineage and other guys who don't.

So it really is a great mix of personalities. And I've shared locker rooms with so many vibrant, audacious characters, so many interesting folks. So it's been, it's the circus. I always tell people wrestling, wrestling is the circus. If you were watching Backlash,

you might have seen a face that you recognize sitting behind Michael Cole and Wade Barrett. Not only did I have those awesome seats, I also got an impromptu interview with The Mids, and Kit Wilson. Check it out on my Instagram. Shout out to Seat Geek for the great tickets, and shout out to Seat Geek for sponsoring this episode. With over 35 million downloads, Seat Geek is the number one rated ticketing app. There are more than 70,000 events listed on Seekek, including concerts, WWE, festivals, and more. Seatgeek has your back with all these tickets.

Every single one is rated on a scale of one to 10, so you know if you're getting a good deal. Look for the green dots. Green means good. Red means bad. Plus, every ticket is backed by their buyer guarantee. And of course, I've got a code for you. Use the code CVV for 10% off your next set of tickets from Seekek. That's 10% off any tickets with a promo code CVV. Make sure to click the link in the description to download the app and that code will automatically be applied to your account so you can use it later. Big shout out to Seek for sponsoring this episode. Hey there, I'm Paula Pan. I help people make the smartest money decisions possible. If you don't control your money, it controls you. Yeah, you're not in control of your finances. You have to look outside of yourself to live the life that you want. You're not in control.

You're like, like, what is it that you actually want? Money should follow the dreams and goals because sometimes we make the dream and goal, the money, and you've overworked yourself, and you've exceeded what you've needed for the actual thing you want. Sometimes we forget, like, what's the actual thing you want? Afford anything. Follow and listen on your favorite. platform. I love the double meaning of your book title. How I got over, you immediately think about the wrestling terminology of like how you get over in the ring. But it's also for you how you got

over depression, how you got over abuse growing up, how you got over a career ending injury. How do you dive into all of that in the book? Like you got over a lot of things that some people may never get over. Yeah. And, you know, a lot of that, it's a journey. I think being able to better understand myself and in my own mind was certainly a journey. And I'm so grateful for for therapy in college. And it was one of those things where, you know, I, I didn't grow up in a household where that was something that was pushed, where therapy, it was a man doesn't show his feelings. He keeps everything bottled inside. He doesn't cry about what he's going through. So I had to unlearn a lot of that. And I was forced to go to therapy at the age of 19. And I was so fortunate to have an

incredible man in Marvin Sims, who unfortunately is no longer with us. But he was someone who just took his time with me. And I don't think I'm alive if it wasn't for him. So, man, it was therapy. It was, I needed medication at the time. I talked about being on a serotonin and norepinephrine re-uptake inhibitor of an antidepressant and an antipsychotic in college. It was that. But for me, man, I really beat the drum so much. If you follow me on Instagram at all for the the most part, you probably see a lot of stuff from Headspace, but I'm a big believer in meditation. That was the app that I use. And it just helped me. Yeah, I use it too.

Yeah, it's, I think meditation really can help anyone. One, it's just, it allowed me to be so much more present. And instead of me worrying about the future or just, you know, I had so many injuries in college, I tore both my ACLs, I broke my right, Patela, tore my left pack all in two and a half years. And every time I had an injury, it just really, really, you know, I had an injury. It just really, I got back on the treadmill of overthinking and my depression got worse and worse and worse. But meditation really just allowed me to deal with a lot of the ups and downs of life and know, like, okay, I felt before like my depression controlled me. Like I would have to deal with its ups and downs and its ebbs and flows.

but meditation just really allowed me to be at a point where I was able to kind of withstand anything that came my way. It really just gave me a really such a strong foundation for my mental health where, okay, bad things are going to happen. That's life. So I'm so grateful because I don't think if I, if it wasn't for finding meditation during the pandemic, I don't, I don't think I would have handled the injury well. I think I would have spiraled because I had so many, man, I had so many things being thrown at me. You know, one doctor was talking about putting me in a halo where they drill into your skull. And that was a possibility at one point. They drill the screws into your skull to attach this halo that I would be in for three months.

Another option that was discussed was fusing my C1 and C2. And one doctor told me, effectively, I would be disabled because I would not have the ability to rotate my neck enough to be able to drive. So, you know, there was that. And I get to the hospital as well. And they told me, like, you just, you were this close to stroke or paralysis or even death. So I think years before, if I didn't have the mental tools, I think, man, I would have, I would have plummeted. My mental health would have been, I would have been in a very, very bad place. But I'm so grateful to have had the tools now to be able to deal with all those ups and downs.

Every time we'd see you in WWE, you'd be so upbeat, a beaming, a speed. coming out of your face. There's this quote in the early part of your book. I want to read this to you because I feel like it really depicts where you were at. As a professional wrestler, I was colorful and comical. I took great pride in being the escape for others that I had so desperately needed throughout my own life. But I still so often felt hollow.

I still constantly thought about what it would be like if I never had to wake up another morning. Yeah, I think people are very used to seeing a certain side of of me. And I think when you see, and it's something I talk about in the book as well. But I think of the comedians that I loved that ended up struggling with their mental health.

I think of like Robin Williams. I could never understand. How can someone who brings people so much joy struggle? How can he be in so much pain? Yeah, that was hard for me to understand until I went through it myself. And don't get me wrong, man. I am so grateful.

And I think in many ways, wrestling saved me. It gave me purpose. I love being that escape for people. I love when people said, like, you know, I came to a show and you or you and the boys were the best part of the show. And I brought my kid or even, you know, we have people who come up to us and say,

like, I just had a loss or my grandmother passed, but we watched you guys together. And it helped us during a difficult time. And that means the world. But for me, as fulfilling as that was, it didn't fix me. You know, it didn't, it doesn't erase the self-loathing. it doesn't erase the issues you have with your self-esteem, with the way you look.

And it's just when you're on this hamster wheel, just like I struggle, my struggle started since childhood, you know, it's like single digits. I have this vivid memory being nine years old and looking in the mirror and despising myself. So when you're doing this, it's just so exhausting to be fighting this battle from a kid and I'm a teenager and everything that I wanted that I thought could fix me. I was a state champion wrestler, a powerlifting national champion. I got to play football at Iowa. I got to like, you know, all these dreams I had, I got to live out.

And still, this isn't enough to still fix me to feel like I have value or to feel worthy of love. So I think just that constant toll of being worn down my depression, by my depression, I talked to a lot of other people too who have that same feeling, like depression can just be so exhausting. and when you're fighting for that long, it's just like, I just don't want to be doing this for any longer. I just, like, the idea of, let's say my natural lifespan is 70, 80 years.

You need to tell me, like, I got to keep doing this. I got to, I got to wake up and struggle with, like, you know, oftentimes I would have nightmares, these really vivid nightmares, these disturbing nightmares, and then you're starting your day, and then you have headaches and just, I just don't want to, I don't want to be fighting anymore. I'm tired of this. It is wearing me down.

I think I just got to a point where I just was, I was ready to be done. I didn't know. It's like, okay, you got to the height of your, you know, your career. You got to experience all these incredible things, but you still feel this way. So yeah, man, it was something where even in like 2019, man, I didn't have a plan to act on it, but I wrote a suicide note just because like I just couldn't get these feelings out of my head. What an interesting dichotomy to go from being beloved. You go out in front of the WWE universe.

Everybody's chanting your name, chanting for the new day. When you leave, fans are asking for your autograph or asking for a photo. And then you go back to the hotel, and it's the complete opposite. You still have to be you. It's like as much as I love being able to entertain people. And especially when we were really taking off that time together was so fun. I like cof and woods we talk about all the time about the bond that we built

our brotherhood it was so beautiful and it just moved me so much and it's so meaningful but ultimately like you still have to put that aside and you go home to you go to your hotel you go home it's like I'm something I talk about in the book but that idea of wherever you go

there you are I love that quote like I can't I can't run from me I and I've and that's the thing too I think about in my career is I've I've traveled around the world. I've wrestled RVD and Randy Orton in South Africa. I've been to Japan at least a half dozen times wrestled in Europe more times than I can count. I've been all over the world. It's like you wherever I go, but I'm still, I'm still in this vessel. I'm still trapped

in my mind. This is, this is still who I, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how much money I make. It doesn't matter how many things I do in my career, how much I travel, all these things that are additive and bring my life more purpose. But I'm still, until I fix me, until I address the things that I've been running from for so long until I stopped trying to shove those childhood wounds inside some closet and forget them. Like, until I empty that out, until I actually face it head on, I'm still going to have to be me. I'm still going to have to fight my mind.

So yeah, man, it took me a very long time to understand that, is those trappings and all the other things you can do in life that are worth celebrating and I'm proud of. they don't erase who you are and how you feel about yourself, you know, ultimately. What do you think it is about meditation and getting still that helps so much? For me, it is, it's about being present. In meditation, you know, whether it's counting the breath, you know, oftentimes you're encouraged, you know, when you're sitting in your chair. And I might only, for the most part, I typically meditate just 10 minutes a day,

but you take your practice with you as well. You learn to count your steps. So it is just the practice of it's, you know, as much as, you know, a lot of the damage done during childhood programs you, this is, it takes programming to unlearn that. It takes a while. And I think a lot of people who meditate for a day or two and they don't notice anything, it's like, there's a lot to deprogram. There's a lot. It takes a while. And it is that daily practice of kind of unlearning a lot of the things that, like, I learned to isolate and to put my walls up to protect myself.

And that's something that serves you for a while. But you get to a certain. point where putting walls up keeps people out, bad people out, but it also keeps good people out. Keeps everybody out. Yeah, it keeps everyone out. So for me, like, meditation is, it's just that practice of, like, I, for so long, I just would replay these things from childhood and would tell myself these things over and over and over. But meditation was just allowing me to get out of those flashbacks and replays of things in the past. And it was just learning to reprogram myself to be here, to be present. Because I always feel like in the present moment, things aren't that bad.

It's when you let your mind start wandering and worrying about what's around the corner or the things that are coming or that's when you build up these paper tigers and these things that become a lot darker and a lot scarier than they actually are. So I've just learned there's a lot of power in being present. And man, there are just so many beautiful byproducts for meditation as well. Just gratitude. I think that's been one of the biggest things for me is learning to be grateful for the small things. Like I have so much gratitude for little things.

Like, man, when I broke my net, my first thought wasn't, woe was me. It's all over. What am I going to do now? It's, I'm alive. I'm not in a wheelchair. I'm not in constant pain. I have taken gamble after gamble wrestling football. I have put my body through it, but I'm here and I'm alive.

And I, bro, the amount of people who texted me, who called me, who fans who DM me, I'm getting chills now thinking about it because I had so much love and support. And I couldn't get down. I didn't know how to get down or to be sad. about it. Because look at all these people who care. Look at all the people who will take the time out of their day, even if it was just 10 seconds to type a message and say, man, I'm thinking about you. I hope you're getting better. I have a whole community of people who cared. And for so long, I thought there was no one who cared if I lived or died. And now there is there, it took me three

days to get back to all these people. I have so many people in my life who cared, who check in on me. Man, I got to thank Mustafa Ali for, he sent me a Seinfeld Lego set. And I'm not a big Lego guy, but he knows I love Seinfeld. I talk about it. It was my favorite show. I made Seinfeld gear, which somehow I got away with as well. Art Vandalay, right? Van der Leigh Industries. So just being able to sit down during that time when I'm in a neck brace and put this thing together and be excited to construct something every day. But I never felt alone during that process. And I got to, you know, I'm thankful for, you know, the company made sure I had no medical bills whatsoever. I didn't have to doctor shop. That was all taken care of.

Man, I think the world of Tavia Hartley, who used to work for WWE, but she, the way she went above and beyond, to come to my house, I was living alone at the time, to take one of the guest rooms and just make sure I was able to get around. Like, even, it's like little things. When you have a neck, you have to be in this neck brace at all times. Like sleeping, too. Yeah, I have to sleep in the neck brace. Even when I shower, I had to change immediately into a soft collar. So to have someone to make sure that I could get around, that I had everything I needed just for a few days to make sure I was ready on my feet. And then from there, you know, Dr. Dugas at WWE, of all places, I tell people, you know, of all places you want to break your neck as a WWE superstar, do it in Birmingham. Because, you know, Dr. Dugas a few years prior, he repaired my meniscus.

He's someone I've known for a while. And he allowed me to hop on his private plane. He's a big wig, just doing big thing. Hopped on his plane, so I didn't have to worry about going through TSA or just trying to get out of. Because the trauma right after breaking my neck, my neck was so sore and stiff. And just being able to move out and about. But having his plane to make sure I got home safely, I was just so grateful for everyone, man. There was so much love, so many people who were there for me.

So yeah, man, I had a community and continue to have a community of people who have my back, who support me, who look out for me. And it was impossible to get down on myself or to worry about what's next because I just felt so loved. And it would have been easy for you to do that because if you think about it, you went from the highest of highs, being WWE champion. You lost the WWE championship in January of 2022. two months later, March 11th on 2020 is when you break your neck. So like to go from that high to that low so quickly, yeah, that could have broke you. Yeah, man.

And I had a friend of mine who I'm now super proud of. He's in L.A. He used to work in social media for WWE, Anthony Nodarale, but he's doing his acting thing right now and doing well. But we used to have this because we were both kind of, you know, quietly struggling with our mental health at the time. and he used to refer to me as the sad clown because he was one of the few people who knew what I was going through and experiencing and we would also have this joke

and it was a dark joke but as soon his little thing was as soon as I retire but within 48 hours put me on suicide watch because for me the thought was I always have the constant distraction of travel of doing shows you know you don't really have time to sit with your mind but I had that But when all that stopped, my fear, and I had a real fear of when all that's over and your home alone, like, there's no running from yourself anymore.

There's no, now you have to really confront your mind and what you're going through. So for the longest time, I had a real fear that if this came to an end, I don't know. I don't know how I would be. I don't know what would be next for me. I don't know if I would immediately plummet back to everything I'd struggled with. But you know, yeah, going from having the title, dropping it on, we had that day one PLE in Atlanta, losing to Brock, which initially, that was supposed to be me and Seth. It's supposed to be a singles match that then Kevin Owens got added to it to become a triple threat. Then Vince at the time loved Bobby.

So Bobby gets added to it, becomes a four-way. And then at the time, I don't know if you remember, Roman gets COVID, allegedly. Who knows? But that was the rumor. He got COVID so he couldn't be there. so Brock needed a match, so he gets added to our match, and what was supposed to be a singles between me and Seth becomes a five way where Brock beats me for the title.

But, you know, that's the business. And honestly, the fact alone that I got to be world champion, a guy like me is pretty incredible. It wasn't the run that I wanted by any means, but I'm grateful that I got it. But to go from Matt to having, you know, there's certain raws where I felt like I was probably in five, six segments. And then I would have to do the dark match,

and I'm doing pre-tapes, and there's a lot. on your back to going from that to immediately being thrust back into, and look, I love the boys, I love the new day, but to go from, hey, you're on the show alone. I think they were on Smackdown at the time I was on Raw to immediately be like, okay, the idea of you even trying to fight back or get another opportunity, nah, we're not doing that. Get back to the tag team. Man, it was demoralizing, but, you know, the wrestling business is filled with ups and downs and ebbs and flows, and I think a lot of talent get too caught up in kind of the ebbs and flows. You have to be able to ride that way.

So for me, the idea was always to fight back, but it was disheartening to be thrust back into a tag team. And then it wasn't long after that where, you know, I get dumped on my head and my career is over. So, yeah, a lot of life change in a couple months. But more than anything, man, I'm just so grateful that I had the tools with meditation to be able to deal with it all. Do you remember everything from the night you got injured?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I remember we had the tag team match. Thankfully, I didn't have a concussion at all. I didn't end up, you know, going out. None of those things. So I was with it the whole time. So we had this tag team match, and it was me and Kof Woods at the time, I think, was out. I can't remember what he was a nagging injury he was out with.

But he was close to coming back, but he wasn't quite ready. So it was me and Kof against the brawling brutes. And I think it was, I think Seamus was on the floor at the time. I think it was, it was Butch or Pete Dunn and Ridge at the time. So we had the tag team match, and at the end, I knew it was Kofi and Pete were in at the end. So I think me and Ridge needed to figure out some way for us to be low at the end. And I know kind of a lot of the feedback I was getting oftentimes was, okay, you're not only are your former world champion, but you're a bigger dude as well. So they wanted me to have something where I was put down for a while.

So instead of, hey, take a super kick and you're down for the finish, sometimes, I need to take a bigger bump to justify being down at the end. So I thought, okay, I'll miss the suicide spear. I was going to take off to hit Ridge. He was going to move. And I actually ended up missing the apron because oftentimes, you know, when I miss the suicide spear, I like to, you know, I like to post on the apron as I spill out. So the tumble isn't quite as nasty. But I ended up not having enough room to do that. But I ended up taking a spill to the floor. But the plan was for I asked Ridge to, like, what do you want to hit me with? Because he was, we'd worked for a little bit.

I actually, like, really liked Ridge. We worked a couple times. We worked a singles on a house show around that time. And, you know, I'm always, I think the three of us did a pretty good job of, for us, the idea of let me just go in, hit all my moves and make myself look good. It's not something we were ever invested in. We always wanted to, the teams we worked with, we always. wanted them to come out, whether they ended up, you know, winning at the PLE, if that was the

culmination of the program or not. We wanted to make sure that they, every team we worked with, our hope was they came out looking better than they came in. So I was like, yeah, you know, Ridge, he said he could do an overhead suplex. And I thought, you know, I'd do overheads all the time. Ryback used to give me overheads. I don't take a ton of overheads, but Ryback used to give me overhead suplexes, never had an issue with it. And so I thought, yeah, let's do it. So, So, you know, I take the, he moves on the spear. I end up spilling to the floor, announced table side. And I remember just feeding up.

And there, he hooks me. Things feel okay. I end up going up in the air. But I could tell I don't have enough clearance. But, you know, when you're launched, there's not a whole lot you can do. I can attempt to put a hand down. But at the time, I couldn't really, it happened so quickly. There was no time to really post or try to bail.

So yeah, man, I immediately feel myself get dumped on the top of my head and spill to the floor. But honestly, at the time, I didn't really think much of it. Were you in pain? No, not really. I was able to move my fingers and toes right away. So just to make sure, I was like, that's fine. I didn't go out at all. I didn't have a headache, didn't have a concussion.

I thought, again, I'm not by no means a medical expert. I thought maybe I got a contusion, some kind of neck contusion or something. Let me just stay down for a little bit. I was like, eh, this isn't great. But I'm not in pain. Maybe I'll be out for a month or so. Just let this thing heal up, and I'll be fine. Not a big deal.

Thankfully, Dr. Pascasio, who always sits ringside. Well, the doctor, there's always a doctor sitting ringside. But at the time, she was sitting ringside, also from Tampa, my fellow Tampan. So she was there. She saw it immediately and rushed over. So before I really even had a chance to kind of get my bearings and start moving, I had to be down anyways. So I figured, like, I'm here selling.

So I'm just going to be down. She rushes over. And I felt like it all happened very, very quickly. It's interesting. I said it tongue in cheek, but the very first thing I say as she rushes over is I need to get a new job. Just because, you know, between all the ACLs and the right patella and the left back and I had a herniated disc, I actually missed some time.

time Survivor Series during the pandemic because I herniated a disc. I missed that Survivor Series. I was supposed to be on the Survivor Series team, but I missed some time because I herniated a disc in my neck. And it wasn't that bad, but I had some weakness in one of my arms and just not something that I wanted to mess around with. So I just was thinking about all the injuries and everything I've done to my body. And I told myself for the longest time, see, you know, I'm grateful for the old

timers and everything they've contributed. but man, I see so many of the vets who are in their late 40s and their 50s and 60s and so many of them struggle to get around. I was like, man, I put my body through a lot, but I want to have a life afterwards. I want to be able to move around and to enjoy life and to work out and not be in constant pain. So I just kept thinking, like, man, I put my body through a lot. But anyways, doctor gets there and it felt like, you know, we get to the finish pretty

us right away. I remember Kofi, I think Kofi circled around to check on me, but it was pretty quick where they were getting the EMTs were there. They put me on a board. They strapped me in. And I just thought, okay, maybe this is a bit much, but with next stuff, you always want to take precautions. But thankfully, man, the hospital in Birmingham, which is where I went to get my meniscus done, so it was very familiar. It was very, very close to the arena. They end up putting me in an ambulance, felt like I was at the hospital, felt like five minutes later. And then I just, they ran a battery of tests and took some scans. It wasn't long. I think Woods was in town. I think it was backstage, actually. So the boys, man, they brought on my stuff. They grabbed

everything, brought it to the hospital and just stayed. They had a town to get to the next night, I believe. But man, they just, you know, those guys are family. So they stayed, made sure I was okay and we just kind of waited for a while and the news I got was sobering I did not expect to hear that I broke my C1 in two places I broke my C6 but the fact that they were so flipping I brought my C6 the C6 is not a big deal it's a C1 that's the real concern so then after that's the one right under your skull yes it's it's it's the very close to your brain stem it's it's you know it's that's that's that's the that's the one where like everything's on the table as far as stroke paralysis death all the things you that are life changing or life ending.

So yeah, it was getting that news was, okay, life is, life is going to be a little different. But honestly, even after they gave me that diagnosis, there was still some hope that I would be just in a hard collar. I can't remember if it was six weeks or eight weeks, but somewhere in that four to eight weeks. So a month or two of being in a hard collar and they thought there was a good chance that I could come back.

But we took more test. And honestly, the issue long term was, so they wanted my C1. So I have what's called a burst fracture or a Jefferson fracture. And that's when the C1, it's like a ring. And on opposite sides of that ring are where the C1 was broken. And it was healing, those spaces were healing with new cartilage instead of forming new bone. so I didn't have the same kind of integrity of the C1. So that's been the issue.

For my day-to-day life, very normal. I have no issues, but returning to the ring. If this happened again and I don't have the same neck integrity, like that could be it. Did they tell you because you had so much muscle in your neck? Like, that's the reason you're still sitting here? Yeah, legitimately, they told me that because I had such a column of a neck, it saved there was no displacement.

When my neck broke, all it was. takes is for if some of that, some of that C1, if some of the bone ended up like chipping off and moving towards my spinal cord, that's when you have some very, very real and scary things that can happen. Or if there was any displacement at all of the vertebrae and started, you know, that's that, even if it's just atrophy or nerve pain or headaches, you know, I talked to certain people who like, hey, I broke my neck 20 years ago and I deal with constant headaches. I don't have any of that. Like, I'm very, very fortunate. But I'll, a lot of the lack of issues is because there was no displacement.

When my neck broke, that muscle and that tissue kept everything in place. So there was no movement. That moment changed your career. It also changed Ridge Holland's career. Like a lot. Like he got death threats from this. When did you connect with him and just chat about it? He, man, it was pretty quickly.

I don't remember the exact timeline, but we ended up talking pretty, pretty quickly thereafter. And you're right, man. He got a lot of, he got a lot of that. A lot of hate. He got threats. And on one end, I can understand that a lot of people, I can appreciate the people who are supportive of me

and who wanted to see me continue to wrestle and felt like he was the reason that I couldn't. But I know what I signed up for. I know things go awry. It was never malicious. It was never intentional. I really, I felt for him and continued to feel for him. And he actually sent me a 10 pound box of meat, I feel like, as an apology, which felt like a very manly thing to do.

Here's a bunch of meat. At the time, I really wasn't eating much red meat. So I was like, oh, this is great, but I just sent that to my creative partner, Johnny. Someone enjoyed it, at least. But no, no, we talked and he continued to check in. I actually ran into him briefly at the MGM Grand in Vegas for mania this year in 2026. And he was on the move and I was on the move and there are fans around too, so it was pretty quick. But it was good to see him.

It seemed like he was in a better place. But yeah, I know it really altered his career. And I tried to put out a statement or two to tell people there's no ill will whatsoever. Please leave this man alone. But more than anything, like he has a family. to take care of. He has kids. And to see him, one, he dealt with a devastating injury of his own. He dealt with losing his job. I really, I felt for him, continued to feel for him. Because I told people, like, I'm in a great place. I'm very thankful. I still am continuing with the company

doing broadcasting work. I am good. I am truly, truly good. But yeah, man, I think he was just in a very difficult position. And I really hate that his tenure in WWE, For the most part, a lot of it's going to be defined by the injury and his role in it. But I really feel for him and for his family. And I truly hope he's in a better place. I hope that's all come to an end because a lot of people crossed the line and went too far. I think a lot of people look at previous neck injuries. Edge came back.

Page came back. Brian Danielson came back. I think a lot of fans think, well, why can't Biggie come back? All neck injuries are different. And that's what I've found as someone who, who is going through this. So my, because my injury, my C-6 is broken, my C-6 is broken, but the primary concern, of course, is the C-1. Because it is so high up in my neck and because of the nature of it, is there a doctor out there who could probably clear me? Maybe. I don't know.

I haven't done any doctor shopping. But I'm really grateful to, so Tyson Kid, T. TJ Wilson, reached out to me right away. He and Natty were, I have, I have, so much praise for them because Natty came by, we lived about, I don't live in Florida anymore, but we lived about half an hour from each other. She would stop by, bring by calcium supplements. She would come by to just talk about what TJ went through. And he, like, you know, my neck and I think of his, and I think mine is nothing compared. Like, he is fortunate to be alive. And it's been so beautiful to see how he walks around and how good he is now. But he connecting me with Dr. Juan Uribe, who did his neck surgery, I believe, but just a spine expert.

And he looked at my scans, and man, he was almost, it was almost a tone of, please, even if they clear you, even if some, like, please consider being done. And I talked to a few other doctors who looked at my scans as well, and they felt the same. So when you hear that you are this close to have, I don't want to a stroke in my mid-30s or being paralyzed or dealing with, even if it's just dealing with atrophy or constant headaches, I feel like, and it's something I mentioned in the book as well, I feel like it feels like living in a dangerous neighborhood

and you always hear gunshots going off, but finally there's one that whizzes right by your head, and they're like, okay, it's time to move now. Like I know I was living in a dangerous neighborhood. I know things were a little perilous, but I'll be okay. It's not going to happen to me. And then you realize how close the end is for you, I never felt like when in the actual moment, I did not feel like I was going to die.

Do not give me wrong. I didn't feel like I was close to it. I was not worried about, but when you can understand that if things went just a little bit different, if there was a little bit more movement, that could be it. It's like, man, that is very, very. sobering. So is there a possibility that even if my neck did, my C1 ossified and was forming new bone, I think just knowing that people who do this for a living, some of the best spine specialists in the world, have implored me to hang it up or to consider hanging it up.

I think that's enough for me. And look, man, I'm 40 right now. There's so many other things in my life that I'm excited about, that I want to do. And one, I could not fathom. I'm engaged. I'm about to get married in a few months. I can't fathom telling Kristen, I'm going to roll the dice with my health in my life again. Like that for me, that's, I can't do that to her. To finally get to this point where I found my partner, who I want to do the rest of my life with

someone, I adore. We have so much fun together. the cliche of my best friend can be, can be a cliche for a lot of people, it's real for us. Like we, I, the idea of, I'm so many things in my career, I'm excited to do. But if that all goes away, if someone says, nope, we don't want to see your face anymore, we're done with you. I, boy, I will be so content just to be home with my woman and enjoy life. And, and I think when you're on, that WWE hamster wheel, and this is all you know,

this is all you are. I am so thankful for it. I am so grateful for it. But I think being, having a bit of a foot out of the industry as well has allowed me to understand there's so much more life out here. There's so many more, even just having my weekends again, man, to be able to travel, to hang out with friends, to connect, to go on vacations. I'm so grateful for all of that. So maybe one day I could get cleared. It's just not a gamble worth taking. It's when you understand the importance of your C1 and the potential costs, I'm just not willing to take those risks. How did your current job with WWE come about? And did that start getting talked about right after your injury? No. So I was just kind of, you know, the company was really supportive

and like I said, took care of all the medical stuff. But for the most part, they just like, hey, here's your rehab clinic. And I was just going to a spot that was in Tampa where I was working on range of motion and strength. So I was just kind of at. home, resting, recovering, getting checkups with the doctors and getting scans every, you know, a few weeks or a few months. They were kind of laissez-faire, just kind of letting me live my life for a bit. And then it was WrestleMania 40. And actually before then, there was, maybe I think I did something for like Minute Maid. I do some things for like sponsors from time to time. And I had my own little side things that I would do as well. But for the most part, I was just kind of at home. They'd check in from

time to time and I was good. But before WrestleMania 40, they just reached out to me about the, it was the Vegas press conference with the Rock with Cody. And that was such an exciting fun time in the industry. And I actually remember getting on the plane. I just thought I was doing a

meeting greet. No one explained what I was doing either. So I just hop on a plane. I don't think it was until I was on the plane where they sent me an email with what they wanted me to do. Like, hey, we want you on the desk. You're like, I didn't pack clothes for this. Right. I mean, I I got in the habit of bringing a suit for me and greet.

So I guess, okay, I'm ready, but I guess I'll be on the desk because for me, I always told myself, I've heard the stories about being a writer and the hours. I said, I don't want to write. There are people who have so much more acumen in the ring than I do. I don't think I'd be a great coach. So, like, let's check that off the list. I told myself, for the most part, I just want to wrestle in the company. That was pretty much it.

And when that is over for me, I will say, thank you so much. This has been life-changing, and I will find a new path in life afterwards. But, you know, over the last few years, I think that kind of changed a little bit. I was a little bit more open to maybe exploring another path. So I go out to Vegas for this thing, and, man, the energy was so much fun. I don't know how much you remember about that day. Oh, I remember. That was the rock, the big slap.

Yeah. The family tree. And this is what really set the wheels in motion for WrestleMania 40 in Philly. Like up to that point, fans were like, I don't know about this. Right. Who knows. And then the rock slapping Cody, it's like, oh, it's on. It was fun, man.

It was a, it was a very fun atmosphere. And honestly, and it's not a shot at anyone in particular. But in the past, I can't say I loved the pre-shows and post shows that we did. To me, it just felt very much. Like, everyone was very in character. It felt very predictable. You know what you're going to get. But I was like, this feels a little bit more organic, a little more electric.

And I love that there was no one in my ear telling me what to say or how to say it. It would just go out there and talk. And, you know, was I the smoothest on the desk by no means. Was I the most prepared? No, I was still getting my feet wet and I was still, you know, trying to. I didn't even know why I was there in the first place. But that was the first thing I was asked to do. and I thought, you know what, this is fun.

And I could be all right at this one day. And then from there, ended up doing, I was still on my talent deal then. I think I did, WrestleMania that year in Philly might have been my first thing. I can't remember if I did Chamber or anything else before that. But anyways, I started getting in the rotation

with doing stuff on the desk. And I was enjoying it. The product was a lot of fun. And I thought, okay, if this is my role, cool. And then once my talent deal ran up, I ended up signing a new deal for broadcasting and for ambassador work. And I thought, okay, I'm enjoying this.

And then it was really great getting feedback from certain people like, hey, man, you're getting pretty good at this. And we enjoy hearing you. So, yeah, it's been a role that I never really thought I'd get into, but when I'm enjoying so far. What do you think your career looks like without the new day? Not great. It's not great. You know what? I have the five count, which I'm, I, that was.

It was so much fun and it was Dusty Rhodes, May He Rest in Peace, the legend who pulled me aside. And at the time, like, man, we were so fortunate that Dusty ran creative. Every Wednesday in FCW, we would come down and he was the guy. It was a smaller class. There was probably like 40 of us too in this warehouse and we're cutting promos to Dusty and he's giving us feedback. But when NXT started, he was also the creative driver of the show. He was writing the shows. And it was kind of a bummer because I initially was not on.

on the first set of NXT tapings. I talk about me and Woods being the very first match ever. We were on the pilot. So there's a pilot that we shot that didn't air. It was just to kind of see if this thing actually worked when we first started NXT. That incarnation of NXT, because it was the NXT beforehand. We're on the road. But this was the first PC or Orlando-based NXT version.

And I missed the first few months. of shows, but after that, you know, I started doing just some random squashes. I think I only did one or two. And then Dusty pulled me aside and said, we want to give you King Kong Bundy's old five count. And man, that thing, I was supposed to be a heel and people were supposed to boo me, but people just want to, they want to interact, they want to be involved. And that thing really took off. It was a lot of fun. And I remember for the most part, my matches, I'd have 30 second matches, 60 second matches, quick squashes, and then the next six minutes would be me just teasing.

I'd come out, I'd leave, people would chant for the five count, I'd slide back in, hit my finish again, hit the big ending, do the five count, I'd interact with people. So that was a lot of fun, and I really wanted to be able to do that on the main roster, but unfortunately, I pitched it and pitched it and pitched it

and was killed every time. So that never gained any traction. But I think, without the new day, I'm the guy who did the five count in NXT. I was so fortunate, man, I was so, so blessed to be able to come up on the main roster. I debuted in Philly at the Slamies last segment of the show with Dolf, with A.J. Lee, when they were both red-hot attacking Sina, when this is the super Sina in his prime. And that's how we closed the show. And I got to run off as their heater for a bit. So I had that run. I had the run where we turn on Dolf. I'm with, it's me and A.J.

for a little bit and then after that, the IC title. And I'm kind of floundering for a little bit. It's floundering for a while. And, yeah, man, if it wasn't for the New Day run, probably would have either been sent back down. In 2014, I think I would have been sent back down to developmental. Because at the time, there were a few guys. Like, I remember Alex Riley was sent back down to NXT.

I want to say Justin Gabriel, I think also was sent back down. There was a few guys who had runs on the main roster, but they didn't really have anything for them. They were sent back down to NXT, and they were gone not too long after. And I think I would have been either fired outright or I think I would have been set back down to NXT. And I didn't have another trick up my sleeve. I had the five count. And once they told me that was off the table, it was struggling to find something. But that was about it.

So I think my career probably would have been done. Maybe TNA might have given me a shot at the time. but I was a decent pro wrestler. I wasn't great in ring. I still hadn't really found my voice as a promo either. So, you know, I think things probably would have been done for me around 2014. I think people forget that New Day was not over. No.

When you guys debuted, people hated you. No, it sucks. It sucks, man. You're saying it not me. No, we were motivational preachers. What was the original pitch? So the original pitch was for us to be the new nation of domination. So it was me, I don't know if you remember Abraham Washington.

So Abraham Washington. Deep cut. Yeah. So Abe Washington was, he had a talk show on WW ECW or ECW. It was just ECW. It was WWB's version of ECW. And he had a talk show where Tony Atlas was his sidekick. Yeah.

Tony Atlas, I think just laughed. All he would do was the, huh, ha, ha, he would just do his laugh from time to time. But I'm telling you, Abe, people didn't get to see the best of Abe. Abe is one of the best talkers I've ever been around. He would come in to FCW and he would cut these promos for Dusty would give. We would usually have these hardouts. You have a minute. Maybe he lets you give a minute and a half.

Alex Riley and Abe Washington were the two guys who had an exception to just go. Because those guys, and people didn't get to see the best of Alex Riley as a promo either. The dude was just incredible on the mic. But Abe also just a masterful talker. But so we were in FCW. It was me. Byron Saxon was still an active wrestler at the time. It was me, Saxton, Woods, and Abe.

And Abe was kind of our, we all talked, but Abe was kind of positioned as the leader. And we had this group that we initially called, and Abe was very much someone who, unfortunately, he liked to push the envelope a little bit too much. I'm not going to talk about the reason he got fired. It's pretty, you can look that up. But he's someone who always like to kind of put his foot over the line and see how far we could push things. We originally called the group the clan. and it was supposed to be, and it stood for like citizens, liberation of American nationalists.

It was supposed to be this militant black group, much in the vein of the nation of domination. We all grew up loving the nation, and we wanted to do something in that vein. That group initially, it was initially the clan, then we became the plan because the office said, we're not doing, we're not doing that. So it was, we exchanged citizens for peoples. So that was it. And we came out in white and red. So that very first suit that you see Woods come out in, that was like his old stuff from when we were pitching the plan in FCW. So we never got to do that on FCW TV.

We did a few weeks of that. And then eventually the office in FCW said, it's dead. You guys can't do this anymore. Move on. But Woods at the time, so he talks about having the worst debut of all time. because he comes up as our truth's friend on the main roster and you know almost right away

he's kind of getting squashed but he comes up to me it was extreme rules of 2014 and he and truth had a handicap match with Roussev they both get killed really Woods gets killed within I feel like a few seconds and he was done for and then truth gets squashed right after

that same day I dropped the icy title to Bad News Barrett who is red hot at the time and like the death knell I think as a baby face is when you go out there, the worst thing is when they don't care at all. But to have Faye and when I'm blowing my comeback and they're booing, they're booing everything, they don't want to see me, I wouldn't want to see me. I was also very boring. Character was kind of dead in the water.

Barrett was a lot of fun. So that same day, Woods is dead in the water. I'm dead in the water. Kofi's a guy who has had, he's already, what, five years, five, six years into his main roster run, already a guy you know is going to be good. kind of just seen as by the office as a good hand. And so we kind of get to Cofi later, but Woods goes in and pitches the writers that day, pitches them this idea of doing a new nation of domination.

They essentially laugh him out of the room. And he comes up to me after my match, I dropped the title, and he said, hey, what do you think about starting this group, kind of similar to what we did in FCW? And I said, I got nothing, I got nothing else, man. And I always respected Woods as someone who was a very, very creative guy, just someone who just always, always, always pitching, always thinking outside the box. So I thought, man, you know what, he's someone who I think has a ton of ideas. Let's give it a shot.

And honestly, like that same day, I was told by creative, I was told by Road Dog, look, we like you, but we got nothing for you. Essentially, we need you to go into pre-tapes and just try stuff. And I went into pre-tapes that same day after, I don't know if it was before, after talking to Woods. And we just tried stuff and just tried a bunch of deliveries. And actually the last thing I ended up trying was, like, I grew up in the church. I grew up actually doing some preaching as a teenager myself in my dad's church. So that, that oratory style was always very natural for me.

And I never wanted to do anything sacrilegious or blasphemous. So I always kind of avoided that. But I just thought, you know what? I think there could be a way to do this in a way that's not offensive to people who believe or Christians. I'm not trying to do anything that upsets people. So I just kind of went into pre-tapes and started doing the next week. I am about to grab the type of, you know, just going in. And for me, I feel like I can just riff and just do it.

And the great thing with that delivery is it's always easy if you lose your place. It's always, I said, you know, it's very easy to have a moment to repeat. and give yourself a moment to kind of come up with something. So that style of promo and delivery was something very natural for me. And so just knowing that the office really had nothing for me, that Woods was in need of something, I just said, let's do this, man. Let's give it a shot. And he, Woods first came up with the idea of adding Kofi.

And I was, I love Kofi. We interacted a little bit. And like we all trained it. He and I both trained still at Cina's. gym, so I'd see him in Tampa from time to time. But my fear is they would never let him turn heel. And I thought for us to work as a group, we needed to be heels. So from there, we eventually, I don't know if I fought it as much. I was just like, I don't know, but initially, eventually, I get on board and I say, okay, let's talk to Kof. And interestingly, like Kofi at the time

was kind of not really having the best time wrestling. And it was interesting. Like, he, even himself, He was thinking, maybe I want to retire early. Maybe I want to be done. I feel like I've kind of hit my glass ceiling. I think I'm good. But eventually, he was, he was, we were kind of floored with how excited he was at the idea. And he was in. So we just kind of went from there and we ended up spending months and months pitching.

That militant group, we actually got to be on TV. We were in South Florida when Woods comes out in that white and red suit and tells us we're no longer going to be glass. handing and kissing babies and shaking hands and we're going to take what we want. And we did that for about a week. That idea was shelved. And then we had to go back to repitching. But eventually we got to be the new day that people knew and love. But it was it was months and months and months of pitching of, you know, the three of us were on house shows together. We didn't have a name, but we got to work on a chemistry. But we very quickly realized we have something here. We see the business the same. We want the same.

for each other. We didn't want. We never wanted one leader. We always liked the idea of all three of us being viewed on the, in the same plane. And we just had so much fun together. So we knew, yeah, like this, this idea, it's worth, it's worth dying on this hill for because we all were in desperate. We were all searching for something. And we also had to give a ton of credit for Mike Nodorelli, who now he writes on Tulsa King. He's, he wrote for the resident for Fox. He's, uh, just doing a bunch of incredible things out in Hollywood. But he was our writer in WWB at the time. And the way he fought for us in those meetings

and really was our voice, he was our ear in those meetings. If it wasn't for him, we never would have gotten off the ground. How long do you feel like it took you to loosen up and become the new day that we know and love now? Like the gyrating with the hips, the bright colors. It took a while, man. When I was a kid, you know, obviously,

Being like my love for Goldberg is well stated. But I love the big dudes. And I always thought that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be this very serious, hard hitter. That's who I am. But then I realized, like, man, at the time, we had Mark Henry, who's much taller, you know, several inches taller than me, but much bigger. He's the world's strongest man.

We have big show. We had Brock Lesnar. Like, I cannot be, I realized that slot of dominant, angry powerhouse that's filled by, much more established, larger, just that's not my lane. So it took me a while to figure out who I wanted to be, what I was comfortable doing. It took me a long time. And even just the idea of being out there half naked in front of people, even just the comfortability of being out there.

And it's weird, man, my first year or two of being an FCW, just that comfortability of being a performer in front of fans, it took me a while to get comfortable. but I think being with the boys, I felt like I had a bit of a safety blanket. Those were my guys, and I felt more comfortable around them. And it was a slow kind of unraveling. And I kind of always viewed it as trying to find where that line was.

And that, for me, that became the thrill. Is, okay, can I push it a little bit further? Okay, next week, let me see if I can get away with humping the ground. Just to pop myself. Oh, no one yelled at it. me. Okay, that's cool. Let me see next week. And I would just kind of play this game with myself. And then, like, man, it just became addicting to really find ways to pop people. Or, like, I remember, I actually just texted Big Show. Big Show is always texting. We have a group,

it's a group chat with, we call him White Paul White, Big Ball White, or Tall Paul. That's also our name for him. So it's the three of us, me, Kof, and Austin, and show. And we always talk. And on one, we just were talking about one of the runs we had. We were in Europe. And it was show and the Uso's against the three of us, just having six men's. Man, that whole loop, so much fun. But our goal every night was to pop show, was to break him on the entrance. Before he got to the ring, because he takes his time.

And I would always, I would sit on that middle rope and with my legs spayed, and I'd bounce up and down with my, and I got real flexible legs, just giving him as much crotch as possible. But that for me became, I went. from someone who was so focused on being the serious wrestler, and I knew that wasn't working. I couldn't do the five count on the main roster. I was struggling to find myself. And then I just got more comfortable with being a little bit more silly, a little bit more goofy. And it's like, oh, I'm able to carve out a lane that, okay, there are a lot of other talent who might be able to do, okay, they're a better talker, they're a better wrestler, they're better powerhouse, all these

things, but I just felt like no one can do all these things. That was, that was at least what I was striving for is, how can I be the only one who can do exactly this? And I always try to encourage young wrestlers who are getting into the industry. Find your niche, find your lane, find ways in which you are different and unique. Find things from your own life or from your own background or your own interests that just make you different from the rest of the locker room. And thankfully, I found, like, I was able to have this blend of, still being, I wanted to still be taken seriously in the ring. We would do silly stuff, but I still wanted people to be invested in our matches.

That was still vitally important for us. So, yeah, man, it was just, I just really had so much fun and so much fulfillment of, let me try to be a little bit more silly, a little bit more different. And even one of my things, too, is even if I was in the background of a shot, if we had one of those things, like, you know, I feel like when I was circa, that Smackdown split, 2018, 19, 20, around then, we did a lot of things where all talent were on the state. And I was always trying to find,

I'm always like, we got to go out in five minutes. There's a hard hat. Okay, put it on. Or where's a prop? What's something silly we can do? I refused, especially, you know, before my singles run, and I needed to be a little bit more serious, you know, in 2021.

Before then, I was always trying to find how can I do something in the background? How can I chew the scenery? How can I do something that catches people's eyes for a second? Even, I don't know if you remember, there's a gift of me. People couldn't tell what it was. It was a steak. I found a piece of steak.

I knew we had this thing. We all had to be backstage. And I knew I was going to be close to Brian. So I knew Brian's a famed vegan, Daniel Bryan. So I'm just going to be next to him, eyeing him as I chew on this steak. And that became a thing. So I was always trying to find something. How can I stand out?

How can I, if I have three seconds of TV time, how can I do something that people will point at and laugh? I don't care whether you like me or you don't, whether it's for you or it's not. I need to do something besides just be a random face in the background. So that became my thing is always finding a way to be different, to stand out, to do something unique or hooky or just how can I, how can I be a way? character that's memorable on the show. And that became the thing that really excited me as a performer. Square up.

You know what's going on, man? It's Andreberto. Two-time world champion. You know, I fought. I loved it. I really wanted to do that sit down from a fighter's perspective. My G. What's going on? Caleb Clats. What's going on?

Now you got a chance to really draw in your audience to let them see who you are. I've had to have a lot of internal talks to say, do I even want to carry you on? But spiders, we know what time it is. Like, I think the time is now. Square up. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

Let's go. What's the story behind this gif of you excessively putting oil on yourself? So I think that was Rumble time. And we're always talking around the Rumble. It's very stupid. But I always thought from on, if we're talking about serious strategy, the number of eliminations a certain talent has. Ultimately, if the goal is to win, does that rule?

really matter? Not really. To me, your best case scenario is getting so greased up. Instead of, you know, we're always talking about cutting to mania, everyone's trying to get leaner and more defined. I was always like the goal needs to be bulk to rumble. Get as fat as you can. Get as greasy as you can. Starfish on the canvas. So no, how we, good luck. If I'm 300 pounds and I'm as oily as can be, good luck. luck trying to pick me up and get me over the top rope. So it was, that was something that the three of us, me, Kofin' Austin would always joke about. But I was just wanted to do this for a backstage and I just had, and I always, you know, you look a little bit better when you have a little bit

of a sheen. Sure. So I would always wear, you always wear baby oil or cocoa butter anyways, but I was like, I need to quadruple coat this time. I'm like, I need to put a coat on. So I think I started like an hour early, put a coat on, put another coat on 30 minutes before, and just kept adding coats of baby oil. So that was it, man. Just, I was, you know, that was my strategy going into Rumble is letting y'all know I'm about to be real greasy. Good luck trying to throw me over that top rope.

That has to be the most shared meme of Biggie. It's, it has to be. You know, it might be. It might be. I do see it a lot. It's a bit much. But, yeah, it got out of hand. And I don't want to talk about something that I think is very serious.

But there was a certain entertainer who got in trouble for very horrible things. And then that, the baby oil stuff, I also got thrown into all that as well. So that didn't know. How did don't you dare be sour become your catchphrase? So Vince wanted us to have some kind of an intro. And so I never wanted to be the focal point of the group. Because I didn't think that was fair to the other three.

So I felt like, so we went into the studio. We got to work with Jim. Jim Johnson, who was just the goat, the legend. To actually be in the studio with him in Stanford. So we went up to shoot our vignettes, and we also got to be in the studio with him to work on it. And it was just so great to hear his ideas and to chop it up with him.

And just, it was awesome. Such a great experience. So I went into the booth, and one of the things I wanted is for me to lay down a bit of an intro. So it's a new day, yes it is. That's like, we did that. So I thought, okay, this is our little preamble. Because I always think with wrestling themes,

You always want that when you hear the glass break, you know it's Austin in two seconds. The gong. Yep. I always want that within two seconds, I always want you to know exactly who it is. So I thought that was our thing. Okay, it's a new day. Yes, it is. We're good.

But the office still, they wanted a little, they wanted something else on top of that. So I was like, okay, I guess I'll try something. And I want to say we were tinkering around with a few different. I'd have to go back and listen to those first couple ones because I know I didn't have my thought was I'll come up with something new for each town. And we did something like we were in Fort Lauderdale. And the only reason I remember this is because Austin and Woods and Kof would often like mention it. But my first one was something like, oh, Fort Lauderdotti.

We were in Fort Lauderdale. Oh, Fort Lauderdade. You feel it in your body. I came up with a different rhyme and I forgot how I closed it. But I was like, this isn't tenable. I'm not going to be able to come up with something for every. Especially then, if you're on the raw loops, you're doing five shows a week every single week in a different town. I'm not going to have the time and the acumen to come up with a new little four-bar rhyme for every single town.

So I don't remember exactly how we settled on it. But I kept tinkering around with it a little bit. And I'm sure I probably saw one of those hand dryers that says field power, because people will send that to me from time to time. I'm sure it was that being in my head. but I just wanted something with all town and somehow end with we decided I think fairly early

that fuel the power was something that was going to be a good catchphrase. We just kind of worked backwards from there with the don't you dare be sour okay that'll work. So we tinkered with it a little bit and then I just felt like okay that's the thing moving forward and it's been great because now not only do I have a thing that works

for the new day and in wrestling but also I got to do the intro for NASCAR. So it's like, okay, I have this built-in thing. I got to do the last two walkouts for Showtime Sean Porter. In boxing, he fought Errol Spence,

which was a big deal. I got to do that walkout. I got to do his walkout for the Bud Crawford fight as well. So now having this built-in thing that I can kind of tinker with. I'm on cameo, and right now I'm doing a lot of stuff.

So all my cameos right now, the proceeds used to go to Feeding America. We raised over 30 grand for feeding America. But now they're going to Nami, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. So I do all that just for charity. But now that's a nice thing is I have this built-in thing

for all Chris, don't you dare, be sour, clap for your birthday and fuel the power. So it's nice having this thing that people know that I can just kind of tinker with and use for anything. I don't think people ever thought that the new day would break up. And this all ends up culminating with Kofi and Xavier turning on you.

You end up being a pawn in this. Yeah. Talk to me about the buildup of them turning heel on you. So, yeah. So I think a lot of people, so I know a lot of the complaints afterwards were, oh, if Biggie wasn't going to get cleared, why are we doing this? The goal was, there was never, we were not in limbo about me being cleared or not. We knew that those guys really wanted to turn heel and they wanted to do something with me that would service that.

initially the goal was so jay uh was a baby face at the time uso very hot uh and the initial thought was okay well let's we'll do something where we ended up the the physicalities on jay that gets shut down we thought oh truth is beloved maybe the physicality would be on truth that gets shut down so we thought okay i these guys want to turn heel i know i'm not going to be clear. We're not leading to anything with those guys. So they kind of came up with a bit of an idea. And I thought, okay, cool, this is what you want to do. I'm still in this position where I'm with the company and it doesn't behoove me for me to be a heel commentator on the broad. Like, that's not what we're trying to do. And so much of what I was doing at the time was I was doing,

putting out a short film, bridges, about Ruby Bridges. So much of what kind of was really filling the bucket for me was giving back. So it just didn't make a lot of sense for me to try to be a heel or any of that. So I was like, I, this is, this is the message I'm putting out in the world and talking about meditation and mindfulness. So I'm, I'm going to remain a baby face. Those guys will be heels. So it wasn't long before we all kind of put our heads together. And we had this idea. We never really had seen a turn with no physicality. And in like the month or so prior, those guys were doing such a great job of building tension between the two of them. And, man, I still remember that one promo they cut where they lose the tag match.

They, they, I love that, I feel like we do it less these days, but that follow shot where the camera is with them, with their frustration at the end of the match, follows them through gorilla, outside of gorilla. And we see Kof and Woods just saying terrible things to each other. And I think that, what I love about that moment is we have been so purposeful about always talking about our brotherhood, how close we are, never breaking up. We love each other. We're always fighting for each other. The importance of Kofi Mania and the sacrifice of me and Austin to make the sacrifice for Kofi because we love him so much.

So this is the first time you really see any real tension. And to see, it's like this idea of the worst things that you've been holding on that you can't say to your brother because you love him. But these things have been, you know, they're floating in there. But now in this moment of anger, saying the things that you can't take back. So those guys did such a phenomenal job of building tension. And, you know, the timing was also great for me and the message I was putting out in the world because the Players Tribune article actually came out the same day. We did the turn.

So Sauer comes out that morning and people are hearing, you know, I think one of the lines in there was about how the New Day saved me, about how this brotherhood and this path we took together just changed me in so many ways. So to have that heartfelt thing come out, talking about my own struggles with mental health, and then that same day have the breakup, it just felt so juicy. But for me, we always had to be so,

we often referred to it as happy, clappy, that idea of, hey, we drop a title the next night. And that was the directive, is, hey, you still come out with a big smile on your face, he still come out clapping, we never really got to do anything with some real, you could argue Kofi Mania had emotional weight, but nothing like this. So the idea of doing something with some real gravitas or something that actually hit people in the chest was exciting. So I kind of, I had some feedback and I thought the idea of, please forgive me, audience, but I thought the idea

of throwing out this hook of I could return, I could help you remember who you are, I could come here. I'm not cleared yet, but I'll be your manager. I'll be here with your weekly. We'll bring back that old new day that people remember and love. We'll get our juice back. I love the idea of throwing out a hook that got people up and then having those two take it away. And just that moment of, and for me, too, I try to sit in in that kind of, you know, with the article, I was reliving a lot of my pain, a lot of my struggle. And I just wanted to, to, to, to sit. And I just wanted to stay in that feeling. As someone who is trying to do more acting and learning more about actors' process,

I wanted it to feel real and genuine. So I tried to... We felt it. Thank you. That's what I wanted. So I tried to stay in... I try to keep those feelings in mind and thinking about my angst and carry that with me to that performance later that night.

And we were just outside... I think we were in Everett, Washington. And, yeah, I had so many people... reach out and talked about, look, I know this is entertainment, I know it's a show, but man, it's heartbreak. And I had so many people who are like, man, is this, like, people who know that what we do is work, we're like, is this real? Are you guys actually talking?

Like, I know it's a, I know it's a show, but is this real behind the scenes? But I love that we were able to really hook people. I think, unfortunately, you know, those guys were getting booed out of the building for the first several weeks. It's the follow up that, unfortunately, I don't think, went as well as we all would have liked. And, you know, I even pitched the idea of, I love the idea of me sitting for the Rumble. Imagine Kofi does a save where he ends up on the barricade. There's some dude with his hat low, because they were taking shots at my fiancé at the time, too.

So I love the idea of maybe our hats are real low at the time. Kofi lands on the barricade. We tilt our heads up, take our hats off, and then maybe there's a swipe of the foot and we cost him the Rumble. He goes out. Something like that. Yeah. You know, creative had other plans. I was told, hey, that's something we can get to later.

And I'm not a save it guy. I would oftentimes people like, oh, let's save that idea for later. But things with creative and direction move so much, when you have a great idea, I'm like, let's capitalize it on it now. But ultimately, those were the two who were going to carry it. Creative was they had ideas. My role is now as a broadcaster for the PLEs. So ultimately, I just thought, let's try to make this breakup the best we can. and the rest is in their hands.

So unfortunately, the follow-up of that turn didn't go the way we wanted, but we were proud of the initial heel term. Was it the frustration of how that heel turn went that led to Xavier Woods and Coffey Kingston leaving WWE? I don't want to speak for them. I know, you know, when the time is right, I'm sure they'll have a lot of things to say. You know, there are things out there about pay cuts and whatnot. I just know, look, this ownership is not the same ownership that existed when we first

signed to the company. It is their company. It is not ours. So they make their decisions with how pay goes. And ultimately, like, we all have to abide by that. And you understand that it is not your ball. It was not our ball. When we first signed to the company, it is not our ball now.

It is someone else's ball to determine when you get in the game and how many carries you got. So they made a decision. And I just kind of want to leave that in their hands to be able to decide. I can't fully speak to a lot of that. But I think we as performers, we all, you don't want to feel value. You want to feel like people want you here. There's a plan for you. And we're going to compensate you accordingly.

And when you feel like that plan is not an accordion. with your plan or the money doesn't line up with the way you see yourself valued, you have to make a decision on whether you're going to say, yes, this is what I will accept or no, this is not what I'm going to accept. So they made a decision to step away. And I respect, you know, those guys will always be my family, regardless of what company we're in, regardless of how old we are. What we built is bigger than companies.

It's bigger than our industry. If it wasn't for them, I wouldn't be in the financial position I'm in. I wouldn't have just the breath and myriad of incredible experiences. Even just getting comfortable in my own skin, I credit those guys for so much of that. Man, I look back our time in the new day and we could talk. about how my career was cut short. We could talk about the things that didn't happen in my career, but I knew I was in the good old days when I was in the good old days. I knew this was it. And I was able to enjoy it. And you're always pushing for more. You're oftentimes, you're

annoyed with booking or disgruntled with certain decisions. But I knew we had lightning in a bottle and not just on screen but off screen. The way we traveled together, the amount, the laughs we had, I can't tell you how many times I had to wipe tears of laughter out of my eyes. So many times when we were just, we had too much fun. I don't think we never, we never had a blow up, we never had an argument, we never had a time where we butted heads, really ever. If we had any minor disagreements, they were about creative process.

and we were able to get on a page, on the same page immediately. The way we worked together, our synergy, it's special. So those guys are family and will always be family, and I will always root for their prosperity. I will always root for their fulfillment. I just want them to be happy. So if they're happy at home, if they're happy wrestling in VFW halls, if they're happy doing conventions, gaming,

whatever it is that they want to do with their lives, fulfills them. As long as they ain't hurting anyone, I fully supported. I imagine the answer is yes, but you're still really tight with those guys. Always, man. Those are my guys. So, yeah, man, we still have a group text. We still talk all the time. We're still always conversing about life. And, you know, they got three kids apiece. So always talking about the boys and a coffe's daughter. So yeah, man, that's family forever. You mentioned Kofi Mania. if we take it back years before that, Road Dog talked about the idea

of you becoming WWE champion before Kofi. What did that conversation end up looking like? So I remember being on SmackDown, and you know, if you're in the industry long enough, I always operate with this idea of, I'll believe it when it's actually here.

I'll believe it when the title is in my hands. I believe it then. When you hear the one, two, three. That's it. Yeah, okay, it was real. Because, look, we all know, I've been in matches. There was a mixed match challenge, The Mix Match Challenge match I had was me and Carmela, who was such a fun collaborator.

She was amazing against Ms. and Aska. The finish, we were two-thirds of the way through that match when our finish got changed. And not just, so it's like me and Ms. were supposed to be in the ring for the finish. Now we needed to have the ladies, not just, hey, the other guy is going over. But now the other set, so having to navigate how to get the other people in the ring for the finish. And those two, Aska and Carmela just did it seamlessly. It did a beautiful job. And this is happening through the referee going, and we're changing this.

Yep. And then to the next person we're changing. Yeah. And for people who don't really fully understand our industry, like the refs are so pivotal with relaying messages, the earpiece they have, we get our times through them. We understand if there are any notes from Gorilla about what you need to do or do this then or interact with that person. like they are our conduit to guerrilla.

So yeah, so I've been so used to things changing. But Road Dog had that conversation with me, and I thought, okay, cool, that must mean I'm doing something right, we'll see. So around what time is this? Man, this is-Cofi Mania's 2019. I want to say, it might have just been a year prior. It was, I feel like it was 2018, and he discussed it with me, but it kind of didn't go anywhere. It didn't happen.

But I was like, man, we're in a good spot right now. we'll just, we'll keep pushing. We'll keep pitching. So yeah, I think it was just about a year prior and it just didn't come to fruition. And, but as we all know, like, Kofi's been open about it. It was, that was not the plan. Coffy Mania was not planned. It was because Mustafa had the injury and which was a real injury. Coffi got slotted it in and just organically people got behind him. So yeah, I want to say it might have been earlier 2019, but I don't think so because actually that whole Kofi Mania push was pretty early. Like elimination chamber.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the early part. So I'm going to say it was 2018, we had the brief discussion about possibly putting the title on me. When did the conversation start happening in 2021 when you did win the WWE title? Yeah, I got to give Brian a lot of credit for that, man. He was, Brian was the reason he wasn't creative at the time, still wasn't cleared. And he pushed for me to do some single stuff. So Woods had his injury.

He was out at the time. It might have been the Achilles deal. So he tore, it ruptured his Achilles in Australia, I think, at 2019. And it's a long process. So I think he was still out with that. And it was just me and Kofh doing some tag stuff for a while. And that whole, like, pandemic wrestling was just very weird. But Kof actually, I believe, I think Kofi actually needed a surgery.

I know there was one surgery way he had to get some chips removed from his ankle. He had another with his elbow. I think he was out at the time. kind of, we did this promo where he gives me his blessing. But that was Brian in creative saying, hey, I think Biggie's gotten to a point where we'd love to see a singles push. So I was really fortunate to get the icy title run, beat Sammy for that.

And Sammy was just a lot of fun as a character. Then we ran for a little bit and had the stuff with Apollo ended up dropping the title to him at Mania. So I don't remember when I was first informed, But I believe that money in the bank field, I think, was kind of already set. And I want to say I was a little bit of a last minute addition as far as creative. I think they had a plan already. Then I was informed that I was going to be in the money in the bank match and win.

And then it became clear, like, hey, the plan is to put the title on you. And, man, I am so grateful for that time because if my career was just the time with a new day, getting to win a couple icy titles, being able to have a strong mid-card run. I'm not saying I would have settled for that and been okay with it, but I was really proud of the career I built. There are a lot of more talented,

a lot of wrestlers who are much more talented than I who've been doing this for a longer, who never get a chance to hold that world title. So I was really fortunate to be able to have that run, but I got to give a lot of credit to Brian. And, you know, there are a lot of talent in our industry who are very selfish, especially, unfortunately, when I first got signed, we ran into a lot of older talent who were more concerned with gatekeeping and pushing talent down and burying talent.

But I have a lot of love for him. And punk as well, punk is also someone who saved my career. Back in 2014, before I got my first icy title run, either 2013 or 2014, I was floundering. At the time, talent. would, so we would do Raw on Mondays, we would tape SmackDown on Tuesdays. And there was a handful of talent. A lot of guys who would, in a few months,

they were about to be sent back down to NXT or just fired flat out, who would be off the main roster. And there were certain guys who, so everyone was going to Raw and then for the most part, the rest of the roster, besides a lot of the bigger name talent

would also come to SmackDown. But there were a few talent, a handful of talent, who only went to SmackDown. And they were only working in either superstars or main event, but they weren't really a factor. So right before Punk asked to work with me, I was every week, so I was done with AJ at the time being her bodyguard.

And at the time, I would check the lineup every week. I was off every single week. I wasn't doing anything at all. And I was starting to get worried about my position here. And there was one Monday where travel would reach out to me and let me know my week. And the next week, I was not booked for Raw. I was just booked for SmackDown, and I knew what that meant. I knew the guys who were Smackdown only.

It meant, hey, we got nothing for you. And essentially, we're going to get you out of here pretty soon, either back down to developmental or out of here altogether. And I thought, man, this is not good. But that same day was a day I found out from AJ Lee that punk just, he never told me. But I showed up to the building. and I think it was Arne or Jamie who told me that you have a match with punk.

I got two segments to open the show, I believe, with punk. And we talked to him beforehand and we kind of had a finish at the end, but he's one of those guys who essentially calls the vast majority of the match out there. So it was my first time. I told myself I just had to relax. I wasn't nervous because I just had to go out there and listen.

And thankfully, it went well enough for him to want to work with me again. We either worked that next, I can't remember if we worked that next day or the next week, but we worked again. And I was a heel at the time, but I got to turn face. We had a tag match with Rybaxil, and then I got to have my icy title run. But that only came because punk talked to creative, he talked to the office, and he said, I want to work with Big E. And when I went up to him later and thanked him, all he said was something like talented people. deserve an opportunity. And that, that meant a lot, man. Like, he didn't, we weren't friends at the time.

We weren't close. He just saw someone who thought deserved an opportunity to do more. And that was, I'm telling you, I truly believe if not for that moment, I don't have a job. If it wasn't for Brian pushing for me to have a singles run, I don't think I ever hold the world title. I probably don't get a second icy title run. So, man, it's big ups to all the OGs and the vets in this business who actually look out for young talent. When you were paired with Dolph Ziegler and A.J. Lee, you're making this entrance. You're getting all hyped up. You know where I'm going with this. You smack her right in the chest. Yeah. What's going through your mind? Terror. Terror. Terror. She is so beloved.

So, mind you, this is the day after WrestleMania. We have WrestleMania 29, which is my first main roster match. I had been a heater, just a heater, the whole time in Dolph, and AJ's corner, slowly getting my feet wet, doing some interference, but never had a match. We have this tag match with Team Hell No,

they're red hot at the time. They retain the tag titles. The next night, I have my very first singles match on the main roster, and Dolph and AJ are coming out with me. We're at the Aizade Center

in New Jersey. This is where Dolph ends up cashing in later on that night. It's the same night. Yeah. Cash is in. So earlier I had this match, and I kept thinking,

okay, I can't do the five down. So I'm so used to, two, when I came out on my entrance, the last time I had a singles match, I was doing this, I was doing this maniacal five count. I need something. And before that, I was struggling to think of something. I had this entrance to where I had this, like,

bag, a powder as a former power lifter. I would rub my hands together and do like the old LeBron clap. And the powder would go up. That was something. And I just didn't want to come out as just a guy with nothing. So I was like, I need to do, I don't have a gimmick or a character, but I need something. And the last thing I remember doing was I would just kind of come out

and I would swing my arms and it's like, it's nothing, but I just, I gotta do something. So let me just swing my arms. And I didn't think about the fact that I'm used to coming out with no one around me. I didn't think about my circumference and who I might potentially hit. So I just thought, all right, I'll come out swinging my arms.

It did not occur to me to think about where everyone was and to think about the space. So, you know, I'm sure I'm probably very nervous because this is a match with, you know, one of the greatest to ever do it. And Daniel Bryan, we have a short match, For some reason, I'm going over as well. So I just come out, start swinging my arms violently, and I just feel this thud.

And I know where Dolph is. I know out of the corner of my eye, I could see him. I know I didn't hit Dolph. I said, oh, no. This tiny, beloved woman, I just hit her in the face. I broke her nose. I'm going to turn around, and blood is going to be pouring from her nose. I'm not even going to have the match.

Someone from security, Jim Kelly is going to grab me. They're going to take me to the back. They're going to fire me right away. They're going to kick me out. It's over. It is done. And you see this brief.

There are people who've done like a slow-mo version of that gift and will send it to me. And this is a brief moment of absolute terror because I realize what I've done. So I feel like my shoulders, you know, my traps tighten. And I say, oh, no. And then you give her a little tap on the back. A little tap.

I look and she's just smiling at me. Thankfully, it was just all sternum. A little like, that was a little, thank God, you're okay. Thank God. This is, because imagine. The look on Ziegler's face is actually interesting because he's kind of like. I thought looking back at it, I thought he might deck me for it. But thankfully, you know, because I'm new at the time, I'm not someone who is established

with this audience at all. If I hurt this woman that is so beloved, it's curtains for me. But like you said, man, thankfully. that she was fine. We have the match. Later, Dolf goes in to have that epic cash in. We're all celebrating. But I just imagine if she, if her nose was in a splint,

if she was bleeding in that moment, just completely ruined. Then she would go on later. I think she did some talk when her book was out about how I broke her sternum. She knew how bad I felt, so she loved making me feel even worse about it. So I appreciate them. Before

you were really getting noticed, I feel like what kind of you on the map was doing this 575 pound bench press at John Cena's gym. Had you ever lifted that much weight up to that point? No, that was a PR. That was my best bench ever. What was your best bench to that point? We were getting, I would say we, because I got to give a lot of credit to Rob McIntyre,

who like Sena's best friend. We would train under him at FCW. So when I first got to Sena's gym, we started, we all trained there. I think 2010. It wasn't long before you noticed. and I came in for lifting. So we kind of took me under his wing and we started doing some powerlifting training.

We did a meet in Florida and then we did nationals as well. I want to say my best bench was somewhere around 550. It wasn't far off. That's a lot more. It's a significant jump.

But I was feeling at that time, I was, so I'm about 260 right now. My heaviest, I've been as heavy as 317 in the company. So I was, at the time, Rob just had me, on top of all my regular diet, I would also throw in like an extra de journos pizza.

So I was, I was stuffing myself. Sounds wonderful. It does sound wonderful until you have to force feed yourself seven times a day. How many calories you think you were taking it? I was probably somewhere around 5,000, 6,000. It's a lot of calories, but it was necessary to,

I'm not someone who is good at being strong when I'm leaner. I'm so much stronger when I'm a little bit fatter. Like, it worked well for me. So that day was really cool because I was a nobody. I was in FCW. And it's a nice little, like, a screenshot of where we are at that time

because Romans spotting me. Roman's not on the main roster yet. We're all these hungry guys trying to get more TV time, trying to get more opportunities. And also, Cina's masterminding this as he's preparing for his match with The Rock at WrestleMania. Yeah, build. So, like, that shows where he's at.

Absolutely. And it's billed as this once-in-lifetime thing. And he told me beforehand. So we all just happened to be in the gym, The dock crew was there. And he told me, if you can hit this 575 pound bench, I will make sure that this is in the dock. And like, I have nothing to do with their build. I'm a nobody.

But just the fact that not only did he say that, but he kept his word as well, man, that was something that was really special. So I remember feeling really good at the time. I probably, at the time, I don't think it was as heavy as 317, but I'm probably a good 310 pounds. So I'm in there, Roman spotting me. Just need a lift off. And I'm not an arch guy on the bench at all. I never feel like I have good control when I arch my back at all. So I was pretty flat with my bench press.

I don't use elbow sleeves or anything at all. Just raw in the purest sense. And there are a lot of people. Throughout my life, people have always speculated about me being on gear or steroids. Tell people I've been drug tested since I was 14. I've never touched a thing. I'd be down to take a lie detector. I have never.

The hardest thing I've ever taken was creatine. Truly. Like I'm just very blessed. My dad was, and he's still alive, is almost 90 years old, but was just, especially in his prime, just a hoss of a man. So a lot of it is just genetics. And I started lifting very, very young. I started, my dad got me some sand weights, probably around the time I was 10.

But I started lifting for real. I would just do like curls and I don't know what I was doing. But I actually learned to train for real in middle school at the age of 12. And I was obsessed with the gym. I would spend my lunch period working out. When I went to Tampa Prep and middle and high school, I would work out. Sometimes I'd work out in the morning for about 45 minutes before school. I would work out at lunch for about another 45 minutes, half an hour.

And then I would work out again at the end of the day for another three, four hours. I'm telling you, I probably would be in the gym six days a week, five to six days a week for four to five hours. Not near, I should have been a lot more efficient, but I just loved it. And I just stayed in the gym. And, you know, I still, I think to this day, I'm pretty sure I still have the bench press record at Iowa for a defensive lineman at 475. But I tore my peck in college and I thought, ah, maybe I'll never get back. But thankfully, rehab went well. But anyways, I get to this point where I'm just getting, I'm training with Rob and I'm eating de journo's pizzas by the day.

I'm getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And that day, just everything was, I felt great. Things were moving really well. so I hit the 575 pound bench. And just to see it. And then it was like you guys won the championship. Yeah, and that feeling was dope. Yeah, I love that feeling, man.

And then Sina starts the slow clap, yeah. Slow clap. Yeah, we hit the, what's it, the bloodsport? The, yeah, it was a lot of fun, man. It was a lot of fun. So, yeah, man, that was a cool moment. Big meaty men slapping meat. Mm-hmm.

Had you ever said that before? No, no, no, no. So I think it was my first time. And it is that, that silly clip, I feel like, is going to outlive me of all the things I've done in my career, but I'm grateful for it. So, and the really cool thing is I got to have, so a lot of times the clip gets shortened so you don't see who asks the question. But that's my, that's my brother.

That's my guy, Rashad Dunn, former Iowa football player. We came in. We're the same age. He's like three, four days older than me. So we came in at the same time. We were roommates for two years. We still talk all the time. we have this core group of guys who lived in a house.

Actually, the same house that, so George Kittle has 830 Miller tattooed on his ass. Because that's the house. C.J. Bethard, who played with the 49ers as well, also went to Iowa. So those guys, many years after us, they lived in the same house that we lived in, 830 Miller in Iowa City. That was our house as well. So, Rashad, we flew him out to do the podcast, and we did this mailbag episode. And he asked me the question. So the guys are already like, they're already getting prined for it because we do so much press together.

We did so many interviews. They knew I was doing the Goldberg. And I would always hammed it up a bit. I mean, I hammed everything up, definitely at the time too. Sure. So they knew the Goldberg answer was coming. So that's why you hear some of the little like the giggles and the Tee's coming already. But we would always have a lot of fun anytime people would ask us our dream match.

I knew every time Woods was going to say too cold Scorpio, he's a huge, too cold Scorpio fan. just his athleticism is kind of just ridiculous for a guy of his side. Way ahead of his time. Absolutely was. That, like, moon salt, leg drop he did is insane. Crazy. Insane. We always knew that Kofi was going to answer.

He's a big Sean Michael's guy, so he's always going to answer Sean. And they always knew my answer was Goldberg. So, yeah, man, the Goldberg answer just came out. And sometimes, like, when you just had, I just had a, we all had a fit of the giggles. and sometimes you're just feeling it. And that was just one of those moments where I started getting hot. Just I felt the sweat coming. But just the energy of the room was a lot of fun.

And yeah, and then a bunch of nonsense proceeded from that. But to see, years later, to hear meat chants at shows, I'm not saying this is the reason why. But, you know, Booker now is doing the no bread, no water, just meat. The fact that that meat is people understand when you're in a wrestling setting and you're talking about meat, you know, whether it's the big meaty men or the big meaty ladies. I know I love that people, that is the way you describe a hoss match. And to this day, on Twitter, on Instagram, I will still have people tag me. Oh, I know Biggie is smiling now if there's an Oba Brock match

or even like an indie match where two big, two big men or two big women are going totally. toe. So it is a very, very silly thing. I thought we were going to be able to make merch, but I was told at the time that legal said no dice, so there's no merch. I know, I know. But it's a lot of fun, and I'm glad of all the things we've done. I'm glad that's followed me. On the interview I did with Goldberg, he said he'd be super open to that match. Like, he wishes that match could have happened. Yeah, it was, it's been really cool. And honestly, and the reason it was Goldberg for me, and I am not going to tell people how to feel about Goldberg. There are people who feel like his moveset is very limited. There are people who have thoughts about him. I'm just telling you,

this man captured my imagination as a child. And I just thought, man, if you go back to those WCW shows and you see the energy in those arenas. During the streak, there was something so special, certainly about his entrance, but then about those matches just like, just pure Squatch match. Squatch matches. Yeah, man. They were just, as a kid, I just thought he was the coolest thing going. And then I got to meet him at a signing in Tampa. And he was so cool in that moment.

And the really great thing was I got to thank him. We were both in the Rumble. I think he might have had a match, but we were both at the Rumble in Tampa, actually in St. Pete in either, it must have been 2020. 2020 or 2020. It was a pandemic, no fans. And just to be able to tell him, thank you for being so cool when I was a kid.

And this must have been. This is when he was red hot, still in WCW, probably circa 99, late 90s. So like 20, almost 25 years, more than two decades ago. You spent 30 seconds with me and my dad, and you complimented us on our suits because we were on our way to church. You had a smile on your face. it was just, I knew in that moment, he had an opportunity to kind of ruin, ruin things forever for me. It's like to never, that idea of never meeting your heroes. He could have made that moment something that would have always stuck with me as a really awful moment

and something that kind of ruined elements of my childhood. But he decided in that moment to be gracious, to be kind, to be complimentary. And it's something I always carry with me, man. It doesn't matter how jet lagged I am, how tired I am. When it comes to kids, never, ever be short, never be rude. If you can always take a moment to sign, to smile, to say hello. Sometimes I'm being rushed out of things, and I, especially sometimes I feel bad because we oftentimes do our pre-shows, we'll start the first hour outdoors and they will come inside,

and we have times ahead. So you can't stop and sign for everyone, but I try to never be short with anyone, never be rude, especially with kids. And that really stuck with me. So Goldberg, for me, was someone who captured my imagination as a kid. I got to actually meet him, and he was everything. I wanted him to be and more as a young teen. Then get to share a locker room with him.

We got to do something for the Hot Wings. I am blanking on... Buffalo Wild Wings? No, no, no. The First You Feast, the Sean Evans is the host. Yeah, Sean Evans. Hot ones. We did hot ones, yes.

We did hot ones together. It wasn't the traditional hot ones, but we got to do that together, and he was lovely. So for me, it's, I'm always grateful. You know, there are certain guys now where I'm inspired by so many other wrestlers. Now that I actually got to get into the industry and the business, there's so many other wrestlers that I'm inspired by and that I think are really talented. But I Goldberg World will always just have a special place in my heart for just the way he treated me and I appreciate him.

So yeah, to be able to kind of have that moment in that. That clip with him was really cool. I wish we got to have a match, but, you know, the whole broken neck thing kind of was a bit of an issue there. Are you able now to look back on your career as a whole? Start to finish from your debut to your last match and understand what it meant to you and also understand what it meant to fans? Yeah. What a joy it was to get to entertain people across the globe.

What an absolute blessing. For fans, you legitimately saved me. You gave me purpose. You made me feel like I was good at something. I got to try something difficult and realize I was capable of doing difficult things. It helped make me become a better man. I got to better understand that I had value in this world, that I had something to offer. it filled, I had this hole, this void in me when football was done, and I felt like I was in

grad school and I was doing well in grad school, but I thought, is this the rest of my life to have to put that part of me away, to never be an athlete again, to never be able to entertain people, I just was, I was never ready for that. And I would have these dreams that kind of haunted me, and I would dream that I was back on the practice field playing. And I just, there's so many of us who, and one of the reasons I want to have this conversation with the book, how I got over, is I also know a lot of football players who, even if you spend a decade in the league,

I know guys who get to play in the league, great career, make a ton of money, they get out and they still feel so lost. They don't have purpose. They struggle to find drive. And that was me for a long time. But I got to fill that void that existed because of the lack of football,

because that was over, got to be filled and then some in wrestling. I really got to a point where I felt like, no, my purpose was not to be this NFL player. My purpose was to do this. There were times, there's so many times in my career as a wrestler where I thought, this is exactly where I'm supposed to be. This is where I'm doing exactly what I'm meant to be. So I got to have the most fun to break a record, demolition held for more than two decades,

to have an in-ring promo back and forth for a while with the rock, to get to be WWE champion, Mr. Money in the Bank, but more than anything, to get to have moments where fans will come up to me and say, you saved me

or I got to bond with my child because of you or you helped me through a difficult moment. That is what, as a performer, what greater blessing is there? And I am so, I am so filled with gratitude that people cared enough to tune in,

that they appreciated what I had to offer. I had so much fun. This path is often meant you have to deal with missing birthdays and holidays. There are a lot of sacrifices, but I signed up knowing I would have to make those sacrifices and the juice was always worth to squeeze. I'm not going to say that breaking my neck was a joyful experience. but I would do it again.

I would do everything all over again. If I had the opportunity, if I got to see how it all played out from 2009 to now when I signed to WWE and I got to see all the pitfalls, all the heartbreak, all the injuries, all the ups and downs. And I was asked, would you do it again? Absolutely. Absolutely. And a lot of that is, I was very blessed to share a locker room with so many great men and

women. I got to perform. I got to learn so much about myself. This, this performance bug I have in me that I can't let go. I discovered that in wrestling. People now, I'll go, I'm fortunate enough to be able to do things in sports and in entertainment. And people are so often blown away by the fact that we can be given, hey, here's two new paragraphs, digest them within 30 minutes. Are you sure that's okay? I'll look at it. I'll scan it for a minute or two. go over it a few times, I got it. But that muscle is through WWE. It's through my time of having to learn how to improv.

It's learning how to, hey, you have to go out in 30 seconds. You just lost three minutes. Figure it out. So you have that repetition and that timing, that chaos of dealing with our changing nature, of our shows, of our promos. It really helped me become more flexible as an entertainer. So yeah, man, I am just so grateful for my time in the company. If it ends tomorrow, they kick me out the door and they say, see ya.

What a ride it has been to have accomplished the things that I've been able to accomplish. I'm so grateful for it all. But so many people open doors for me, man. I could thank Mike Doody at Iowa, who was the reason he met Jim Ross randomly on a plane. And I look back at my life, and there's so many of these moments of happenstance where I'm so blown away. that Mike Doty, this guy who was really good friends with Dan Gable at Iowa, like he was a wrestler at Iowa and Iowa State. He's not like a businessman in the state of Iowa,

but he was randomly on a plane with JR two times when JR was still with WWE, and they just ended up talking about Iowa and wrestling, and he was kind of informally set up as the scout. Turns out that he was friends with Mike Humple. Mike Humble was a teammate of mine at Iowa, who had a neck injury at the time, who was drafted by the Steelers, but we were training together,

even though I was done playing, he was done at Iowa, but Coach Doyle at Iowa said, hey, come in, work out together. So we were training at the same time. And if it wasn't for Mike Doody, being on this plane randomly two times with JR and being friends with Mike Humple talking to me, I never get to WWE. It wasn't even on my radar. Same thing like with Iowa. I was a senior. I am maybe 5-11. I played my senior year at 235, trying to play defensive tackle, which ideally you want to

someone who's at least 6-2, you want someone who's at least 290. I wasn't even close to that. To have, I was, my plan was to walk on at Florida at the time. I had a bright future scholarship, which would have covered all of my academic stuff, and I was just going to walk on at Florida and give it a shot, which probably would not have worked out. But I was, my senior year, which your junior year is your critical year for getting recruited. My senior year, I am done with the season. I am just planning on walking in. walking on at Florida, in comes walking in. So the weight room at the high school I went to is connected to the coach's office. The only way to get to the coach's office is to walk through

the weight room. I'm just in there working out. At the time, I'm doing 315 on bench at the age, I'm 18, 315 for a set of 10, just cranking it out. Phil Parker, who is actually won the Broil's Award for the best assistant coach in all of college football a few years ago. He was the defensive backs coach at Iowa then, and he was recruiting the state of Florida. He's walking to talk about guys a year younger than me, prospective juniors or juniors at, at Wharton, the high school I went to at the time. He's not worried about me.

He's not thinking about me. I'm the only person in the wait room. He walks by through this weight room to talk to my high school coach and sees me benching 315 for a set of 10. He has to ask, who is this guy? What's going on with him? Turns out a defensive lineman at Iowa

just left the program. They had an open spot. Turns out the defensive line coach at Iowa at the time, who would also go on to win this prestigious award for assistant coach of the year,

he actually coached my mentor and my defensive line coach in high school. And that's the only reason. So it's these moments of being at the right place, at the right time,

these people who opened doors for me, there is, I should have never gotten to play football at Iowa. And if it wasn't for Iowa, if I don't get to Iowa, I never get to WWE. So it is,

I look back at my life and I get chills now. And I'm thinking, whether it's God, the universe, karma, whatever it is, there is this force that has looked out for me. And I've dealt with some horrible things, some heavy things, some dark things. But ultimately, the beauty in my life, the opportunities, the love that people have shown me, the doors that have been open to me, it is hard not to believe that there is some grand design for my life, that someone, something, God, has looked out for me. and has made sure that you're going to go through some things, but you're going to be okay.

These doors are going to be open for you. And that's why I wanted to write this book. That's why I wanted just to talk to people, because for so long I could not understand where my life was headed. I felt so hopeless. I felt directionless. I felt like there was no plan for me, and this was all going to end in disaster.

But now, at 40, I can look back and think, I had so many people who were such a blessing to me, so many things, so many doors open to me, so many people who were putting a word in for me that would change my life that I had no idea or understanding of. And I just, I feel like my life is a message of hope. And I hope more people who are struggling right now can understand that maybe your life feels hopeless right now.

Maybe you feel like you're underwater right now. Maybe this feels like the end. But there is hope around the corner. this doesn't have to be your story. And I think if I had gone to the lengths of taking myself out of committing suicide when it was all I could think of, when I was 19, 20 years old, when I was sure I didn't want to be here, man, I would have missed out on so much. And it's really not. It has less to do with the spotlight, the fame, the money, all those things. It has more to do with connection, with finding love, with finding self-love, more than anything,

getting to a point where I can accept my flaws, I can accept the things that used to eat me up inside, just getting to a point where I understand I am worthy of good things, I am worthy of love that life can feel ugly and heavy, but man, there is also so much beauty out here. Man, I feel my soul is lit a fire when I am with the people I love, when we get to spend time celebrating each other. The act of service is so rewarding for me. I've gotten to a point where I feel so settled in myself.

I used to be so worried about what life after wrestling would look like. I'm so filled with purpose and excitement. I am so hopeful about what my 40s will look like, about what my 50s and beyond will look like. I am so grateful for this time. And I have to thank so many people, but I've also had this perspective of trying to always find the silver lining. When bad things happen,

I have to find a way to make good or to take something from this. It might not ever overpower what was lost or what was taken, but losing one of my best friends in Brody, John Huber, Luke Harper, a man of many names, his loss, that whole in my life, that him leaving us, can never be replaced by any message or lesson learned, but I told myself,

we don't know how much time we're going to have. And you can understand this cognitively, but sometimes it takes a loss of that magnitude for it to be fully entrenched in you. And then I'm loath to describe it as a near-death, experience, but also breaking my neck and understanding how close I was to never being the same again or not being here at all, when you have those moments for me, just, they really lit the spark of go after what you want now. I, for so long, I was like, I want to be a better person one day.

I want to look a certain way one day. I want to take some leaps in my life one day. And this, Brody's loss and the neck injury were just for the reminders that none of this, truly, truly none of this is promised. And if my story ends tomorrow, I'm grateful that I tried, that I got to take leaps. I'm so blessed and so fortunate, but there's so many other things that I want to do in life as well. So, man, I have learned so much about life. I've learned so much about myself.

I am so grateful for this wrestling community. oftentimes we focus on what's toxic. We focus on, and that element exists. But I've also found so much community. I've found so much love. I have found a lot of people who have really just made me feel like this is a space that I belong. And, man, my message is just one of gratitude. I'm really, really grateful for my career.

I hope that people who watched it enjoyed it. If I wasn't for you, I get it. I'm not sure if I was a kid. I'm not sure if I would have been for me. but I had a ton of fun. I have zero regrets, and I'm immensely grateful. I just love that you're a ball of joy. Yeah.

I love that. It's hard not to be, man. I know. And look, ultimately, sometimes I'm like, we do so much in wrestling, and I'm like, bro, this is pro wrestling. It is supposed to be fun. We are talking about men and women in tights

going out there to perform. It is supposed to be fun. It's supposed to be joyful. And that's what I always try to bring to just life in general is joy because I feel joy. It's hard for me to keep all wrapped up inside of myself. And I experience so much joy doing what I do. I'm so grateful for it. Wrestling is a ton of fun.

I love the art form. I love when we get to tell a great story, sometimes we make people sit through a lot of bad too. There's a lot of things that aren't very good. But when we can give you a Kofi Mania story, when we can give you that original bloodline, Sammy stuff, When we can tell amazing stories, even like the Cody final boss, rock stuff, I love, and I will fight tooth and nail for this. I think, look, our art form is not always perfect. But when we deliver stories told well, told with commitment, when you can have everyone in the palm of your hands, as far as live entertainment is concerned, there's nothing like it. I can't say enough good things about your book, how I got over.

available for pre-order now, you're going to touch a lot of people's lives with this and you're going to change a lot of people's perspective of the stuff that they're going through. So on behalf of everyone, I want to say thank you for that. No, thank you so much, man. And that's my hope, too. I know, look, it's life's not easy.

There's a lot of us who are dealing with difficulties, who are dealing with our own minds, a lot of people struggle. And I find too, I think wrestling, whether you're a performer or a fan, I think wrestling seems to bring in a lot of people who are looking for some people who are looking for A lot of people who are looking for community, who are looking to connect to something,

who feel lost. And I meet a lot of people who struggle with their mental health. And I carried so much shame for so long. And I was afraid to tell my story. I was afraid that if people learned that I was in a psych ward, that I went through electroconvulsive therapy, that if I went through these things, that I would be seen as someone who was unreliable and broken and someone who would be dismissed. but I find so much power in telling my story

and connecting with other people and offering a story of hope because I thought for so long, best case scenario was learning to be okay and I'm so much more than okay. Just learning to tread water and I'm not saying that's sometimes you just, sometimes you're drowning

and you just need to find a way to be okay and that was it for the longest time. But I think there's so much light at the end of this tunnel and I never foresaw it. 20 years ago, I never could have foreseen. and getting here. So that for me is it, man. I'm ready to beat this drum for going to therapy, for being introspective, for taking some time to address your childhood wounds. Meditation changed me.

Going to therapy changed me. And I will meditate every single day for the rest of my life. That's something I'm committed to. And also just community. I think that's also something that we need so much more of. I think us coming together to be able to have earnest conversations. man, I had someone detail my car who came over, and we just had a conversation about mental health. And for me, I'm so, my soul feels so full when I get to have earnest, open, honest, honest, vulnerable conversations with people about what they're going through, about what I went through with how I got through it. And that's the purpose of this book.

So, man, thank you so much for letting me sit down and talk to you. Yes, pre-sales are out now. And pre-sales are so big because, like, that's, if we can get some buzz now, that'll get the book on shelves throughout the country. So, man, I'm hoping that people really love it. I think it's, I'd like to say it's a great read. I talk about some of the things. It's a great read.

I'll say it. Thank you. I talk about so many aspects of my life, from childhood, from football at Iowa, to wrestling, to finding love. There's a lot in there. But ultimately, man, I just really wanted to tell a story about my mental struggles, but more than anything about hope. And that's what my life is. It's a story of hope. The thing that you and I share in common here, you've said the word gratitude so many times

throughout this conversation. I love that because we both live our lives in gratitude. I wake up every day and just to like start the day to center myself, I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. We do it before we go to bed as well. And that's how I end every interview. So Biggie, what are three things right now that you're grateful for? Ooh, I am grateful for my beautiful best friend, Kristen, my fiancé, who brought me out to the bay. I'm so grateful for her and just so much she's added to my life. Cannot wait to marry her in front of our friends and family. She has been life's greatest blessing.

I am also grateful for, man, I'm grateful for wrestling. I'm grateful for this community. I am grateful for the way you all have opened your arms up to me and have continued to support me and love on me and to just follow me on all my ventures and excursions. And I'm grateful for healing. I'm grateful that I didn't have to, I don't have to be that person that I thought I always was going to be.

I'm grateful that change is possible. I'm grateful that there are tools out there for us to grab, to become better, to learn to be softer with ourselves. I'm just, I'm grateful for life, man. I'm grateful to still be here. I feel like in so many, there's so many ways, whether it was the neck, whether it was depression that I succumb to, there's so many reasons for me to not still be here. And I'm here. Life is beautiful. I'm grateful for all of it.

We're grateful for you. Thank you. Thanks again, my friend. Thanks, Chris. One night with Stine. One night with Stiney. Shout out. Full Send, no.

Hey, bro, what's your name, bro? Sine, what's the hell? We've been sitting here for like an hour together. I know your name. What's your name, though? Funny. I can't guarantee anything. All I can guarantee is that you're going to be entertained.

I'm a professional. I'm here to interview. So the whole interview, you can ask me what I like better, Burger King and McDonald's. All right, and we are going to wrap up on that note. Thank you, Steve, so much. That was a burger king. One Night with Steiny.

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