Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Billy Gunn Is JACKED at 60! AEW, New Age Outlaws, DX Reunion, Retirement Dream Match

Episode Date: July 2, 2024

Billy Gunn (@RealBillyGunn) is a professional wrestler currently signed to AEW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood to talk about his legendary wrestling career where he has wrestled in 5 separate decades, how he still looks this good at 60 years of age, why his AEW run has been the most fun of his entire career, working with his sons Austin and Colten Gunn, not being a part of the DX reunion on WWE Raw, winning King of the Ring and the promo where The Rock called him "Bob", coming up with the legendary entrance for The New Age Outlaws, wrestling Sabrina the Teenage Witch, wanting a retirement match against Will Ospreay and more! “Don’t be afraid your life will end; be afraid that it will never begin.” – Grace Hansen Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! TIMELINE NUTRITION: Save 10% off your first order of Mitopure at http://timeline.com/INSIGHT BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code INSIGHT to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

That downstate song just gets me so pumped up every time. How are you, my friends? Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you so much for being with us. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. That's right. Last week, we had the number one spot on the charts for the very first time.

And it's all because of you. It's because you. listen to the show, you follow the show, you share the show, you leave a rating or a review. You guys are seriously the best, and I can't even begin to tell you how much I appreciate you. Number one, baby. We were also like number seven on the all sports charts. So like all sports podcast, not just wrestling. Number seven on there, we're 622 episodes in and I feel like we're just getting started. Thank you so much for everything, whether you've been with us for a few episodes or whether you've been listening since the very start.

When we started the podcast a little over five years ago, you're the best. And if you're one of the 79% of people who listen to the show and according to the stats, don't follow the show, could you change that right now? Like, what would hitting that follow button, like, it would take a few seconds out of your day. It's nothing for you. it would mean the world for me. So please hit follow on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening right now. I am pumped to have Billy Gunn back on the show.

The energy that he has is just so infectious and he has this permanent smile on his face. Like, it is impossible to be in a bad mood when you're with him, which subsequently means it's impossible to be in a bad mood when you're listening to an interview with him. it's incredible that he's 60 years old he's in the best shape of his life and somehow continuing to get an even better shape every single day the man is aging in reverse and how cool is it that for the last few years he's been able to wrestle with his sons austin and colton in a e w and then

his adopted sons the acclaimed he loves those guys so much as well we talk about what billy's been doing in a e w he's been there since the start We also dive into his New Age Outlaw stuff, DX, Billy and Chuck, his many, many catchy theme songs that he's had. And yes, we talk about that infamous promo with The Rock calling him Bob. Snap a screenshot, share it online and tag us so we can share it out as well. He's at Real Billy Gunn. I'm at Chris Van Fleet.

And let's do it. Ladies and gentlemen, the legendary Billy Gunn. All the friendship bracelets. Yes. Billy Gunn? So I got Billy Gunn, I got Daddy Ass, I got the acclaim, and then just a generic one. Oh, is there like, okay, yeah, yeah. So was that an appearance somewhere or signing whatever?

So I got schooled by, of course, you know, some younger girls of what these are because they make them for me. And then she said, well, do you want to trade? and I went, well, I can't really. I don't know what that means. She goes, it's a friendship. You give me one, I give you one. And you're friends.

We are friends. And I said, how about this? I cannot give you one of mine because people give them, you know, make them for me. So it's, I don't feel it's in the realm of that friendship bracelet. Yeah. So I said, but she goes, well, what if I give you one? And I went, that would work. That'll be tremendous.

Because, like, I feel bad if somebody. made this for me and then I gave it away and for some reason I see it you know and they go oh you really appreciate because I do and I think this is super cool so these are all from fans yes so that let's move forward about six months I'm at a signing just last weekend the girl that actually gave me this walked up to me and she goes oh my god you have it on oh oh and the look just the look on her face was amazing and she gave me another one wow so that's why I wear them Because like if you, like sometimes my wrists are way too big and putting these on and off, they pop and then these little beads go everywhere. But luckily, they've kind of figured it out and made them big enough to where I can wear them.

So I wear them. And if you make it, I'll wear it. I have no problem. The pink, don't mind. It's, they're, it's a nice gesture. This is a Taylor Swift thing, I think. Okay, don't ever say that again. Let's say anybody with that.

I'm not on that wagon. I'm not on the Taylor Swift, Kelsey. That's too much for me. You know, who else wears those? When his sleeve rolls up on his suit, Triple H wears a bunch of those. He does. Boy, you're really going to make this a short interview.

No, no, no. You know what? It's funny is I actually did see that. I saw that he, but he has all girls. So I'm sure they make them for him and go, and that's a must. If his daughter makes him for it. You guys could trade one.

well i don't know if we've we've been that close lately that we would that maybe the next time i see him i'll go hey hey meet you you look better every single time that i see you thank you i and you have a perpetual smile in your face it's only because like okay so go there and people would argue with you because at work i do not but that's work right and it's not that i'm angry at work i just have that work face like i'm I'm coach, I'm talent, I'm that guy. But you do it. I love doing your stuff and, you know, it's, it makes me happy. Because we always talk like intelligent.

It's not, it's not your typical. So back in 1990, what was your favorite? Like those driving us. So I'm always pleased to be here. This makes me excited. I love chatting with you. We've done, I don't know, half a dozen. So if you were to say,

like if you were to pick one person that and I was actually thinking about this on the way over because it feels like no and it's a good thing yeah because we've done a few of these even when you were like nothing like this still i still have nothing no you're something but you've always been something to me anyway but that's kind when you were first you know we all have a starting right so when you first started to where you are now who do you think is the most person that's like a And maybe that's, who has been on your show the most? Oh, Dahl Ziegler. Because I lived in Cleveland. I was on the local news station. I was an entertainment reporter in Cleveland. And he would come home to see his family at like Easter and Thanksgiving. And then when Raw or Smackdown will be in town.

And he'd always come by the TV station. Okay. So the lead end to this question just backfired on me, actually. No, but he's a good. No, I love Dolph. I think I've done like 16 or 17 interviews with him. I've done like six or seven with you. Yes.

Okay. I think this is number seven or eight maybe? Yeah. We did that one. We did that workout with Mike O'Hern. Yes. Yeah. And he literally just told me about it again.

And it was good. It was fun. And I think we're going to do another one at some point this week. I think so. I think Thursday. Oh, my gosh. So we were, I think we were going to go. There's a, he was just telling me about it.

There's a gym in San Diego that is closing. down that has been in business for 77 years. It's kind of an older, um, older kind of, a old bodybuilder used to own it. I guess he's, there's somebody sold the land or whatever. Hmm.

We were going to do that. And then he said, I think working out with Chris would be better. Ah, and I said, I agree 100%. What? We could work out of that gym together if that makes more sense.

I don't want to ruin the plans here. No, you know, we don't ever have plans, first of all. Like I came to that like when I got in yesterday I get to the house probably around 6 o'clock. He just went. He's got this day. He goes to bed early, whatever, his beauty sleep. So, Mone is there.

Of course, always, you know, say hello and we're sitting there talking. I go, he's coming down, right? I'm just, he's getting. He goes, he just went up. And I said, I'm telling you right now. If he doesn't come down, even though I know how he is, if he doesn't come down, I'm going to be home. Like, I'm going to.

Yeah. be hot. So he texts me from us here. Hold on, I'm coming down. But that's him. But that's how we are, though. Like, I don't, you know, I can not be here for a year, whatever. It's still the same. It's still that same. We just have that thing. Wait, who did you think the answer would be to who I had done most interviews with? Me, actually.

Me actually. Are you in the last? I don't even know if it's you in the last few years. Yeah. You're up. You're on the list, though. Okay. As long as I'm, it's something. Somewhere on the top. Oh, yeah.

And not near the... In the last probably five years, you're probably top five. Okay. Yeah, maybe... Okay. We got to meet up more off. That's actually what I was fishing for. Okay.

So it's... You got it. Yeah. Follow along, please. Got it, got it. I love this meme that's been going around recently of like, it's a picture of you and your debut and you recently, and you are in way better shape now than you were then. Well, it's a... I'm a different me than I was then.

So that me, so, because I know you want to talk about this, how it give you a perfect lead-in, because that's what kind of, you know, guest I am. Man. It's when I was training horses and riding bulls and all that other stuff, working out was the last thing I wanted to do in a sense of working out to look good. Working out to keep your, you know, joints and stuff good is one thing. That's a total different workout. Training horses and stuff, I don't have to be me. Me now.

So working out was never really a thing. I mean, I worked out when I played football in high school, but you know how that is. Hey, you guys go do full body and you let me know when you're done in an hour. This is one of those, you know, and you really don't lift. You just go, hey, I can lift more than you and that's it. Like there's no, no structure, no plan, nothing. That was the extent of my working out. until I got into this lovely business that I, you know, once I kind of got into it and realized it was a thing.

And now I've transformed from that to this, which is not bad. That's pretty good. How are you 60 years old sitting in front of me? It's a different, I have a different mindset than most people. It's just not an option. It's just, it's not in my DNA. It's not in my thought process to not be me or to not work harder or not to be better than I was yesterday. I don't age doesn't mean anything to me.

I'm going to get older. It doesn't matter. That doesn't mean because I get older that my life stops and I stop doing the things that I love. So just probably five or six years ago, I really like just went dove. head off, right? Getting, you know, help from Mike and help from Furland guys in Orlando that know that this is their life, right? So if I want to be in their life, I'm going to the people that have done this. Like if I'm sure if those guys wanted to know about wrestling, they'd come to me, right? Because I know a little bit about that, right? Not a bunch, but I know a little bit.

So it's the same thing when I really wanted to get into this, really like it's just been the past few years that I've really got into seeing what I can do. You competed. I did because my wife and Mike talked me at that. They didn't have to talk me into it, but they kind of convinced me you're the type of person. There's, it's not that you can't do it. It isn't that I can't do it. It's just, it's a, that's a different animal than, than what I do.

And sometimes I get a little. get a little shaky when I get outside of my comfortability. I'm not a dieter. I am very good with my food now, but I've been super lucky because my genetics and my metabolism stuff has always allowed me. As long as I'm close to eating good, I'm okay. But once I realize about competing, that's a whole, that is a whole different animal. You got so shredded.

Oh, my. kids, my kids thought I was a walking action figure. I remember the day we were in the gym and I happened to have a big sweatshirt on and I was probably maybe four or five weeks out and I took my top off and my kids just stood there and stared at me and they go, you're like a real live action figure, right? And I went, well, I don't, thank you, I guess. So that was kind of cool. But yeah, the dieting and the way that you eat and what you do, it's amazing if you take time to figure out what food can do to your body.

I love the meme of you next to Gorilla Monsoon. Yes. You're both 60 years old. So you're the same age that Gorilla Monsoon was when he was a WWF president. Yes. And you look quite different. Yes. That was, you know, it's Photoshop.

Come on. Stop it. Did you have a good chuckle? when you saw that? I did because somebody else had sent that to me. And, you know, it's, it's, they're just different lifestyles. That's it. It's not, you know, it's not that I do anything different.

I'm just, that's my life. That's what I do. Like, it's not, it's not a pastime. It's not something I just want to dabble in. It's my life. Yeah. And that's, that and still wrestling are the two things that I, you know, I've done wrestling for so long. And it's not that I know everything, but I'm, and I still have a passion beyond no other for this business.

I really do. But I just needed something to go away. You just need a something. And I don't want to call it a hobby because this isn't a, it's not, it's way beyond the hobby. It's like an obsession now. So I don't, I don't call it a hobby. It's just a lifestyle. And I love it.

I really do. Because I just, it's just fun to wake up and because some days I'll wake up and go, God, I look, horrendous. And then, but it's, it's just my brain. It's just the way that I function. You look like you're having so much fun in the ring. I am. And, you know, at this point, that's all I want to do. You know, I've done it all. I've, you know, pretty much everything that you can do. I've been to the top. I've been to manias. I've done this. I've done that. And I've lived that stressful being on 24-7 and for so long. But now my kids, the acclaimed, me.

It is. It's all about having fun now. It's just enjoying because I can't do this forever. And we know that. Of course, everybody thinks I'll do it until I'm, you know, a hundred years old, which ain't a thing. You haven't missed a step. It's not a thing.

So, and they'll come a point where it's over. But until that point, I'm not going to let myself go out there and just be, bleh, blah. That's just not in my genetic makeup. Was there a point in your career when it wasn't fun? It was probably my T&A run. And it had nothing to do with T&A. I was in a whole other headspace.

I love the girls. Beautiful people were amazing. They were so much like that. You know, trying to redo the thing with Brian, Road Dog there just kind of, it was a thing that we were trying to recreate. But when I was with the girls, it was so much fun because they made it fun.

It wasn't just me. Like they put me with them for a reason. It was just kind of window dressing at the time. But the girls had total trust in me. They believed in me. They knew that I wasn't, if they had questions or wanted to do something, that I wasn't going to just do something. It's never about me.

Like it's, I just, it's never about me. It just isn't. I just never, like with the wrestling stuff, it has never been like that because I'm not a wrestling person. We all know that, right? We all know Billy's story. He just got into it because he had nothing to do. And then so he became a wrestler.

And I just happened to be good at it in certain aspects of what I do in wrestling. It's not that I'm the greatest wrestler. I'm not that. But I did enjoy it, but I didn't know what I was doing. And to this day, I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm very good at making other people and making other people live their dreams that they want. And it's okay because, like, I've had my run in the sun or whatever they say. So I don't need that.

I just want to have fun. I just want to watch my kids because that, that right there in itself is, I watch them and just laugh so hard because they are probably the most entertaining kids that I've ever seen. The energy, the enthusiasm, the way that they just, and they're the same way. they're not selfish at all. They just aren't. You know, so it's, it's amazing. Did you know they were always going to want to get into wrestling?

No, not a, they weren't allowed. Like, this was a thing. I did that first interview with Austin. What would that have been? Geez, like six or seven years ago. And it was like he couldn't get into wrestling until he graduated from college, right? Yes. And then correct me if I'm wrong, but Colton didn't have any interest.

No, because Colton's extremely smart. If you put, If you put them, if we categorize Austin and Colton, Colton is very put together. Colton had his life, since he's 12, he's had his life planned out until he was 60. That's how put together he is. Extremely smart, intelligent.

And I'm not saying, like this, don't give me wrong, I'm not saying Austin isn't, but this will clear it up. Austin is me 100%. So he is all me. Austin is all me. Colton, on the other hand, is very introverted. He's meticulous, which in turn, in the business he's in now, he analyzes, even when he was training, I'd drive him to be nuts to train him, not in a bad way, but he analyzes everything. He's very, to where Austin just, you go, hey, find a way through that door, and he'll just run and go right through the door, right?

and to where Colton will sit here and see what's around him, analyze stuff, and then go through the door like a regular person. Also, on the other hand, it's not going to do that. But when we have the talk, and he, me and Austin were doing some stuff together. He went to Rikishi School here in L.A. Went by there and said, hey, please don't say anything. I just want to come in here and see because I don't want to look back and regret. And it wasn't so much that me and Austin were doing something, although I think that's a lie.

I think there was a little of some of that in there. But he's not like that. But he would hold, he would regret that if he didn't at least try it. What did he move out here for? So he was here with his girlfriend. Okay. At the time, they both went to Florida State. Then she went to Duke or something.

And then they came out here. And he was running a huge construction company out here that was building that, I forget, get what it is. I went and seen him a couple times running his own cruise and stuff. Oh, wow. So, but yeah, he stopped in there and did that. And then he came back to Florida and pulled me aside and said, I want to try this. I said, well, that's fine, but you got to move back to Florida. I said, you know, when you're first training, I have to be there. Yeah. I said, I'm not going to do something. You're not going to go live in L.A. and train there. And I'm not going to have a hand on that. That's not, that's not a thing. And he goes, no, I understand. And that's fine.

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Timeline.com slash insight. When you look at photos of you when you debuted and you look at photos of Colton now, you're like, it's a clone. Exactly. It just, he's in better shape now than I was. back then. Yeah, it's, it's scary. It is. It's very scary. It's identical. Like, there's no question, that is your kid. I know. Yeah. And if Austin has the personality, I mean, Austin looks a lot like you, but Colton is like spinning. Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. So,

yeah, wild. And look what they're doing now. I know. And they finally kind of figured out. And they're still in figure out mode. That's, you know, it takes a way. Yeah. They're still in figure out what, what we are together, how we are. And a lot of the training with them was just letting Colton know, it's okay to be you. And it's okay that Austin's Austin. But you cannot be Austin. You cannot try to measure up to his energy and his charisma and all, because that is a major downfall for you. because there's no way you can do it. But you can gel together if you guys just figure out who's good at what, who's good at and mesh them together.

It was the same with me and Brian. Me and Brian were totally different people. But we found a way to just gel together because we never fought the system. It was always, hey, you're very good at this. I'm very good at this. So let's just put it together. And it's the same with the boys. But they're still trying to figure out there's, they're so, they're so.

all over the place and they have so much energy that they're just now you got to find a happy medium and who you're in there with to do these kinds of things so it doesn't look like the same thing for every single person that you're wrestling is your name officially daddy ass now i guess so i guess you guess so well i guess so i mean i don't like that's like it's still half and half i feel I still Billy Gunn and Daddy Assess. I think it's, it's, yeah, I guess so. I feel like. I just can't escape the ass at all.

Like that's just your last name, right? You would think it is anyway. You are Mr. Ass. Yes. Yeah. But like on the like marquee, it'll be like Daddy Ass versus. Yes. Whoever you're wrestling.

Yes. It's, but I think it's very specific when they, what market we're in for that. Because it's still kind of, oh, come on. And people just, like, unfortunately, don't have a sense. So there's certain cities where you're like, we're Billy got here. We'll just be. What are you in L.A.? I would imagine your daddy asking you.

I'm all kinds of things here. There's no limit to what I am here in L.A. All of this, I mean, the crowd really made a lot of this happen. Oh, scissor me, daddy, everything that happened around that. Yes. This is all the crowd, just having a ton of fun with it. It is. So this is the thing.

It's very interactive with us. If you, so, and this is my outlook on wrestling. It's not, like I've never been good at the wrestling part, but I've been really good at figuring out how to get people to react. So when I do do some kind of wrestling move, there is a reaction because I'm not going to wrestle and get the people. That's just not my forte. That's not in my thing.

That's never been what I'm good at. I'm good at getting. taking a heck of a butt whipping. That's what I'm good at and taking things. But now that I'm older, I don't want to take all these things and can't do it. So it's all about crowd participation. And we had it by the, you know, you can channel. There's all kinds of stuff to chant.

There's something to do. So now when we come out, it's very much, okay, now we get to be interactive. Now we get to participate in a show that we came to see. So I think that's where that comes from. Not that we, you know, like Max and Anthony aren't appealing to the people because there's all the rap, the energy from Anthony, the, you know, the scissors stuff. So it's very interactive. And if you can do that, you can get anybody. One of the things that got the New Age outlaws over in such a big way was the intro.

Yes. Right. Brian says this. You say this. Yes. How much of that transferred over to the acclaim? Like, Max says this, Anthony says this. So I think it just all goes hand in hand, right? Brian found something that just stuck and there's, you know, I think to this day, if you don't know it, there's, like I see it all the time. They go, hey, if you don't know the New Age Outlaws intro, we cannot be friends. So it's true. So everybody knows it because it's, Like I said, it's very interactive. It was easy to the point and everybody could do it. And then the energy and all I had to do with two words, that was it. But that's okay because everything that I had went into those two words. You know, my wife used to tell me all the time, she goes, you're going to have a stroke. Because you are so into that.

I said, I know. But who's going to feed off of that the most? The people will. Because if I have energy, it will feed the people. If you work and have energy and you're into everything you do, the people, well, you don't know why, but it's the energy. It's the energy that makes you go, it's not climbing to the top because it's like super boring. But if you have energy, everything leading to that, everybody's on the edge of their seat to see what the end of the result is. So I think it's the same thing that leads to the acclaim.

We all found out things to do because when we first started, I didn't have anything to do, right? we didn't do this. It was just those two. Which is fine. And then we kind of went, well, we got to do something. You know, we got to do something at the end of this and put the thing. And it all, if you just kind of let things happen and you just do them and not afraid of the end result, because it was never anything intended to be bad or vulgar or, or insulting to anybody. It was just, hey, we do it. It sticks. It sticks. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Like, what's the worst that happens? We just don't do anymore. So then we started doing that and I think I saw a clip the other day, Anthony, doing, said something about that Chicago, that one Chicago show where people lost.

They're ever left. That was probably like there's one other time I felt like that and it was with Brian and Tacoma, Washington. But that night with that, I couldn't stop moving. My insides were about to explode because of the energy and the people were so into it. Like if you can get that once you feel that it's over like it's over it's so good it was insane it was the same when me and Brian started to kind of catch fire and getting kind of hot we were in Tacoma washington and the minute and I mean the minute they hit our music the place went insane 16000 people every time Brian started to try to talk they would get louder and louder and it was so by the time we got to the ring, I was blown sky up. And that was not from what I was doing. It was from the

energy of the people and the way it was making me feel. It literally made me lose my brother. Man. Like it was probably the most amazing thing I've ever felt. And I've, to this day, other than the Chicago that got close, but nothing will match that. Because it was, it was insane for five minutes. For five minutes. Every time Brian would go like this, the place would erupt. Like guys were coming out of the back going, what is going on? And it was, it was, it was just a moment. It was just right. The people were on fire.

And it was just all, it was like, I guess the stars all aligned, you know, Jupiter and Mars were like super, like super. So it was just one of those nights that you'll just, and I know I can live it to this day. And just, it's incredible. It was crazy. brilliance of the New Age Outlaws intro is it's the same every time. So then after a few weeks, the crowd knows exactly what's going to be said. And number two, I now know this guy's name. I now know this guy's name. Even I've never watched before. I now know what they're all about. Yes. And you do. It's so smart. Yeah. And the thing about it is it, for some reason, it never got old.

Like, I can do that. To this day. Yes. I can do it a hundred times. And I get, and it's, it's such a time to get like I can just just let it rip and I can't to the like I tried to I've tried a couple times just to kind of get into and I can't I just can't I just for some reason it makes me I guess so excited and so glad to do it I guess that it just I just boy I lose my mind when I do it and I love it. Yeah yeah it never got old and I don't know why that the way that you would deliver your line especially like after you know you got into the rhythm of it. And if you're not down with that, when you would slam your arm into the air with the microphone, how could you not be pumped up for that?

Yeah, it's just crazy. Crazy times, crazy times. Who came up with the name, The New Age Outlaws? I think Vince Rousseau. I'm not 100% sure because this was. So Brian was wrestling somebody's in a singles. I was on commentary. And if I could find it, I would go back.

I'm sitting there and J.R. had pitched something to me like, hey, so I hear you guys are calling yourself to New Age Outlaws and I go, yeah, that's the stupidest name I've ever heard. Don't ever say that again. And Vince buzzes me in my ear and goes, oh, hey, that's your new name. That's your name.

Hey, this is a good place for me to know that. Like maybe just buzz me before. Wow. Yeah. But things happen like that. Like you just don't, it just, you just go at the moment, right? And then like I, and so now I go from like trying to be Mr. Heel talking to just going, oh, God. Because I hated commentant, like doing ringside commentating anyway.

So it was just like let the sales right out of me. And I just went, okay. So. So bad. So bad. My editor is really good at finding stuff. Yeah. I bet he'll find that.

You probably could because it is literally me sitting at the table and then I'm saying, Hey, so you guys are the new age I lost? And I go, yeah, no, that's the stupidest name I've ever heard. Because I was trying to be healed, right? So I'm something that's that to me. And you just go, yeah, no, that's not our name. Oh, yes. Okay.

I'm fascinated by the idea of, like, life being this confluence of, like, moments that happen that allow other moments to happen. Like, if this doesn't happen here, then this other thing can't happen, which leads to, you know, all these other things, right? That's why Back the Future is my favorite movie of all time. Yeah. think about like if your life had gone down the original path like you're training to be a professional bull rider like if that had started going really well we certainly wouldn't be sitting here right now

not at all but think about how that you know would have gone on and then you fast forward a bunch of years like if new age outlaws wasn't a thing that might not have led to dx being a thing hall of fame career everything else you know like all these things have to line up to be the person that you are right now yes hence why that leads me You're such a good host because you're leading me right into my next thing. Not my next thing. But so I was thinking about this as well. Like I think of weird shit on the way over to see you.

Oh, I love it. Is people about my addiction stuff. So I've been asked. Like, do you have any regrets? And I think about this and I think, and I know this sounds really bad. But I don't. And the, and I. Yeah.

Could, if I could be where I am today. and not have my addiction. Sure. Yeah, 100%. But does me being in that addiction, does that get me to where I am today? Just like you were taught. That's what I mean. Things happen for a reason to get you where you are. So I, you know, have a career. I get lost in whatever. I have this addiction. I'm out. Made me who I am the last 11 years. You know, so when people ask me, well, do you have any regards over that night? I go, no, and I know that sounds bad, and it does. But you have to look at it in the context of, like what you were saying, if that doesn't happen, I am not the person that I am today and the last 11 years that I put into, you know, maintaining my sobriety.

So, yeah. I love that idea. Yes. And it's the idea of like, we all make mistakes. Sure. Right. And it's how you learn from those and how you grow as a person and get better

so that when you're faced with, that situation the next time, how do you handle it now? Exactly. Because I have, you know, as up today, I have no desire to use anything, you know, but that's a, that's a day-to-day thing, too, as well. It doesn't ever go away. You just find ways to manage it. And you, as a person, I find ways to manage it. I have things everywhere. I have things. This is my sober date right here. This is my coin that I got out of rehab. Which coin is that? So this is the, when you, you graduate or graduate or leave

when you leave rehab. There's a, like a, because I was in for like 60 days. So when you leave, they give you going, hey, this is starts,

you know, and then when you go to meetings and stuff, you get a 30 day a year and things like that. But this is the one that I got when I got out. And then I put my sober date there, the day I got out. And they're just a reminder of what, what can happen or what doesn't need to happen.

Yeah. Because that's not a, road I'll ever go down, hopefully, that I'll never go down again. What's your sober date? 311. Oh, so it just passed. Yeah. Yeah, pretty recently.

I remember asking Jake to St. Frank Roberts, I'm like, how long were you an addict? He's like, I'm still an addict. Yes. Every day. It's like, oh, wow, that really reframes it. Like, it's every day you're making this decision. Yes.

And you are. You want, you know, there ain't no, there's no, hey, I went to rehab. I'm not, I'm not that anymore. No. it's just you go you go to rehab to figure out how to deal with what's making you do all this, you know, and you get in tune with stuff. So me and my wife watch Graze Anatomy. It's a new thing, right?

It's something we watch together. There's 19 seasons. It's lasting forever. And I sit there and cry almost every episode. And she goes, so, and I feel that's something that rehab has taught me to kind of, and I just say, well, it's the fans or it's. You know, something's blowing in my eyes. But it's like, but you, you get in, like, you don't hide things anymore.

I don't hide stuff. I'm not, I don't fake stuff anymore. It's you, you know, you get it and you get it. You know, you deal with it how you want to. If you don't want to know something that's the truth, don't ask me. Because I'm not like, and then you just, you're in touch with your feelings. You let them go. You're just, it doesn't mean that I'm any less of a person.

It just means that I ain't holding on to that stuff. Because if I hold on to it, bad things happen. And I'm not going there. So, yeah, but that's, but just like you're saying, that, you know, that leads to this and this leads to this. And hopefully that doing all this leads to a good place. And I'm like, I'm golden. What a spot you're in. Yes. Yeah, I'm still doing something that I love at 60. And I'm with, you know, Max and Anthony are amazing. My kids are amazing. I work for a good company. You know, we, we pretty much have free reign to do what we want.

And it's just keeping all that in check. It's like keeping the boys and I say the acclaim are my kids and my wife says the boys are her kids. So it's keeping hers and my kids in line of how, because you know they get antsy and they, why are we doing more? Why aren't we doing this? We should be doing this. We should be in this. Yeah.

Well, not everybody can be there. But at least they have a buffer to hear reasoning and what you can do and what you can't do and what you can't do and what you can control and what you can't control. So at least they're not swimming by themselves, right? I'm in a boat next to them going, yes, you can do this. It's all good. So I'm the one in the road boat next to them while they're swimming.

But, you know, they still want to figure it. And I don't, you know, I don't just tell them what to do. We have team meetings all the time to discuss what they want to do. And I help, I just help navigate the waters, I guess, you know, because like I said, it's nothing about it's not about me it's about what can i do to help you achieve what you want to achieve before you got sober when do you think you are your worst whoof like right at probably right at the end of the t-n a run something like that yeah so right before 311 yes so it was 60 days before that you know i woke up in a house my house was destroyed there was things that there was things

everywhere. There was no dogs. There was no wife. There was no nothing. And I literally just went, yeah, this is it. Like, I can't, I can't do it anymore. It's, it's one of two things are going to happen. You know, it was just like a couple days before that. I just drove to the gas station and hit one of the pumps. And the cops came up to me and go, hey, you're all right. I said, yeah, I just haven't. You know, you come, like when you're not, you come, I have some of the best excuses ever. So you just start splurting out. But, you know, and it's not that they, they just have to take me at my word. You know what I mean? It's not that they don't, but they just made sure I went home and I'm like, damn, if they did just arrest me, maybe that would have

like straighten me out. But it was, you know, it's when you wake up and you have nothing around you, have nothing to your name, nobody wants to be around you. You can't talk to anybody because they don't want nothing to do with you. My wife left because she knew she was getting the call one day and she ain't sitting around waiting for that. That was, that's one of the worst things that you could ever put somebody through. You know, those are my biggest regrets. So the call that you. But I'm dead because I wrecked two cars.

You know, I would take a massive load of pills before when I flew home just so I didn't have to deal with her and listen to her. And they kick halfway there and I end up in a ditch. And now she's at the hospital having to come get me, you know? So like you don't want to live like that. So she left. She was out. She goes, I ain't doing this no more. You know, and you just have to, and it was my decision.

Like, I had to know that this was it for me. This is it. I can't do it. Like, this is, I don't want to live like this and I don't want to be by myself anymore. But this is how I'm going to be because nobody wants to be around me. So I made the phone call and was gone. Did you still have this positive outlook on life? Like, if I had bumped into you in 2010, would you have still been this fun-loving Billy Gunn?

Probably not. No, because I was, I was, I was, I was trashed. I was just trash. I just, I didn't give a shit about nothing. I didn't care about nothing. Didn't, you know, everybody around me had problems. I had zero problems, you know. So, and that's, you know, that was complete with addiction talking. You know, it's just, it's just, it's, it's weird because you go, well, I don't have a problem with drugs because I can do whatever I want to with them. I can make it, I can make them. I can make them. make me feel however I want. Yeah, no. They had a hold. They, you know, there's no denying that. But yeah,

it was, it's when you wake up like that, if you don't, if you don't snap, it's just you're, you're done. You're done. But again,

if you think about if this doesn't happen, then this doesn't happen. If you don't get clean, you probably don't go back to WWE. No, not at all. And when I left rehab and kind of started doing my program

like I was supposed to, I did a, I did a new, they'd asked me when I left there, they'd just come up with this 18 month program. It was a new trial kind of thing where, if I can remember it, like the first three months, you call this number. If your color comes up, you go take a drug test, and then you have to call a counselor every day just to kind of check in and just say, hey, how are you today?

This kind of thing. And then at the end of the three months, if everything's good, the next three months is like every other day you call this number. Then it just kind of backs off instead of going and living in a sober house. I didn't want to do that. Not that I'd do good for that. That just wasn't going to suit what I was doing at the time. But this checking in and keep being accountable every day was something, yes, I had to do.

And I went to meetings every day. It was right down the road from my house and just doing everything that they told me I had to do to stay where I wanted to stay. And I did it. And it worked. It's amazing. It worked. And then it just, it never gets easier. is just I know that if something starts getting weird or going haywire, I just go to a meeting.

That's it. Wow. That's it. That's all I have to do. Like, I don't have to use. That's the last thing I have to do. Because there are times when I start kind of, it's not that I don't have feelings. We were in Vegas.

I was going, kind of beer should taste good right now. You know, but it's not anything crazy. You know, it's, it's just if I get overwhelmed with. things, I just go. And that usually fixes it right off the bat. So how did that path end up leading back to getting rehired by WWA? So I just went because when you get out, it's like, so now I'm trying to, it's not, so they teach you, it's just making men. It's like saying because I, there was a ton of wreckage that I left in the wake, you know. So it's, it's more or less. And it's not for, and it's, you go and you tell them, hey, sorry for what I put you through or what I've done to you

if I did you in any way it was never meant. And it's not that I blame it on my addiction because it was all me. It was something, but I'm not putting it on that. I'm just trying to let you know that I'm trying to fix it. Now, you accepting it is one thing, but me saying it gets it off of me in a good way, not a bad way. But you just kind of start things that you didn't want to do now that are very uncomfortable to do because there's nothing worse in going to people and going, hey, I'm sorry for, you know, no showing you or act like a complete and utter idiot at your show. And it was everybody. It was people, shows that I did calling them on the phone, you know, my wife is a whole other.

That was all that was trying to fix that was a whole other thing. But I happened to be doing an appearance in Chicago. I think it was weird. And WW is there. I called Hunter. I said, hey, do you mind if I stopped by? And he goes, of course, I'd come by, whatever. So, and then I asked to talk to him, I said, hey, and there was a couple other people there

as well. But I had talked to him. I said, hey, I didn't want my job back or nothing. I just want to, because when I got released and we were, I went on a rampage. I mean, an utter rampage of just trying to destroy everything because it was everybody else's fault, not mine. So, and it was just to, hey, you know, I just want you to know, I'm sorry. I apologize, you know, it was, it was what it was. And, you know, and he goes, you know, I never even thought twice about it.

You know, so it's, and then that led to, to the Performance Center. Well, before the Performance Center, I was, about six months, I was at the, the Training Center in Tampa. But he, you know, everything was good. They were checking in on me and everything, all my, you know, because my program I was doing, had to, being as WWWP paid for it, they had to know the updates and all. all that of what was going on, letting know that I wasn't failing anything or cleared of everything. And then they just, he goes, hey, I'm doing this performance center. What do you want to come guest coach? And I guess coach a couple times. The next thing you know, I was hired and nobody knew it. And then the next thing, you know, they put me and Brian back on the road.

And I was coaching. And I was hired there. And I was hired to go do talent and run. I was like, yeah, just at all. But it's, they tell you if you just do what you're supposed to do. If you work the program and do it right, these things will start falling in place. And the last thing you want to go is, yeah, okay, you don't know how bad I screwed things up. But everybody does.

I'm not special. Like everybody that's an addict has left destruction in their way. Oh, we've all screwed up. But we, but how we go about fixing it or how we go about apologizing for stuff and doing very uncomfortable things. There's nothing worse than going and talking to people and just tell them that you're a complete and utter disaster. So, you know, and that helps you kind of works on your coping and how you handle things. And now it's okay. It's okay to do that. Yeah. So I did that and just every time it was just something getting hired back. Now I'm on the road. Now I'm doing head of the performance center.

Now I'm doing great coaching. And now it's just one thing like it, it almost is so overwhelming how things were falling in place. It was you almost start going. Okay. hold on. This is way too. Something bad is going to happen. So those are the kinds of things that you've got to be careful with. It's setting yourself up that things are so good that you're just waiting for something bad to happen. And that, that right there was something that I had to, because I had this pattern of every three years just absolutely destroying my life. Just do one way or another. I just destroy it. So you start, start doing this and I'm doing this and things are just falling into line and things are lining up and I'm starting to do everything that I love to do. And then all of a sudden,

here it comes. And they told me it would. They said, now, okay, this is too good. There's no way this is going. Okay, so now I'm waking up every day going, okay, is this where I destroyed? But it's just because you're working and doing the work that you're supposed to do and think good things will happen. And they still do. Do you still think like that? Like, is that the other shoe is going to drop? I don't. That's kind of went away. Um, It went away so I don't have, I mean, maybe glances of it, but nothing, nothing to the extent of when like a year, two years in, just things like keep getting better, like those were super strong. But as time went on and I just realized, no, it's just me doing the work. Yeah.

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With all the parts you need at the prices you want, it's easy to make your car of the MVP and bring home huge wins. Keep your ride or die alive today at eBaymotors.com. eligible items only exclusions apply oh close for you to being part of the 25th anniversary of dx on raw because it sounds like things were lined up and there's a good chance you could have been there yeah it was just miscommunication it was trying to get the and believe you me i get it i work for a completely different company and it's and if i can do it fine if i can't i get it i'm not You know, it's, yeah, I spend a majority of, you know, of my life doing that company and being a part of it.

So, of course, they want me to be there. But if the company that I'm with now has some issues of what they need and what they want and it doesn't work out, then I can go. I can't be mad about it. You know what I mean? And was I upset? Yeah, because I want to hang out with the guys and relive that moment as much as you can. But if it doesn't work for the company that pays me. And then I'm not going to go.

Yeah. You know. It was a cool moment. Road Dog takes the mic, puts it to the crowd. Yeah. They do the line. They did it. And even Sean Michaels, I don't know if everyone caught this is doing the scissors.

Yes. In the background, I'm like, oh. Yeah. It was there. You know what I mean? They, everybody wanted it. It wasn't nothing like. It wasn't a bad thing.

It was just miscommunication. And, you know, I don't know all the logistics. All I know was I was told, yes, I could do it. Then by the time we were trying to get stuff sorted out. out. It just took too long. I want to go with a deep cut on this one. Can you tell me about your match with Sabrina the Teenage Witch? So, we can track out the good stuff.

So they were looking for somebody to do the show. I didn't know nothing about the show. I just knew at the time it was pretty hot. But she lives in a regular world, but there's a realm world and I'm, whatever I am there. And so they asked me to come do it. And I said, well, yeah. You know, I've always wanted to, that was like one of the, like I've done some spotty stuff, um, in some shows, but nothing like that, a talking role and a major part where I got to beat her up and all that.

So I was doing it and it was the, it was great, but the way they, like, I'm so used to live TV that when you do movie stuff, that's a whole other animal because they, like I, I kept trying to tell them, hey, I can do this in one shot. Like, I'm really good at this. Like, if you just tell me, and they go, well, that's not how we do it. Because they want to set up the cameras for different angles. Yes.

So that was my first real experience of how to shoot that. And that's okay if I don't do that anymore. But I did do it anyway. But yeah, it was that. And then they wanted me to press her and do all this stuff. And I said, well, I ain't sticking my hands in between her. Like, this ain't a thing. Because I'll be canceled before.

So, you know, we did certain things with her And then certain things with her stunt double And then they said they're going to throw a cat on me And I got to do these lines with a cat and stuff And I went A talking cat by the way A talking cat in the realm world So it was it was a different experience

It was actually pretty fun It's fun to watch it back Yes Because you're sitting in the wedding You tear off your tuxedo All of a sudden you're in wrestling gear You never know when you might need it You never know

So, yeah. Yeah, that's such a fun one. I don't know if everybody remembers that. I see it. So they'll catch it somewhere and people will, like, buzz me on it every once in a while. You have a lot of viral moments. Like, some that you've been a part of, some that people have just created. Like, right before we started here, I said, did you know that people have taken the one

Billy Gun entrance theme and put it over the opening credits of 90s TV sitcoms? And it fits because there's the saxophone. It just feels so 90s. I don't know. It's hilarious. And it was a pretty good song. And it pretty much goes with anything. Yes, you did show that to me. That was pretty, it's like, that's the deal with social media, right? They can do anything. They make up anything. We were shooting some stuff in the gym with Mike this morning. And he's taken being him walking. And then he cuts me out of it and puts me somewhere else. And I'm like, like, like, what is that? I don't know. I don't even know how to do that. Well, Mike's on a different level of memes. But the baby don't hurt me stuff? Yes.

It's just ridiculous. That went. That went somewhere else. That just went crazy. That one's wild. Yeah. Is the guy who sings the one Billy Gun theme song, the same guy who sings the ass man song? Yes.

Wow. Yes. Does ever, do people know this? Probably not. Probably not. But I'm pretty sure it is. Yes. We just broke it right here.

Wow. Yeah. I think it's all the same. You know, it's that Jim Johnson's stuff. So it wasn't, you know, it's nobody different because the whole time I was there, he was there and they're all singing the same thing. Is your reflection on occasion put even you, what is it, putting even you at awe, put even you in awe? Do you know what I'm trying? No.

On occasion, my reflection puts even me at all, because I've got it all. I have no idea what that is. Like, that's my song. You don't know the last. lyrics to your own song? I didn't know the Mr. ass lyrics for a year. I never listened to them.

You just walked down there to you? Yes. What? Yes. I never knew the lyrics to that song because all I do is listen and feel what I can do with the song. It's never about what I hear the people singing. It's about the melody and how what I need to do, like, energy wise with the song. You're telling me they didn't send you that song.

you go, I'm doing what with these asses? No. I love to love them. I love to kick them. I love to kiss them. Not a what. I walked out to it and they said, hey, we got new music for you tonight.

I went, okay. Walked out to it, listen to it. I went, oh, that's kind of catchy, but never heard the lyrics. Didn't know what the lyrics were for at least a year. The very first line, I'm on ass, man. It's so good.

Bown, bow. Yes. Yes. I've been lucky. I've had some pretty good. Let's go through them. I mean, come on. Smoking gun stuff. Brilliant. Awesome. So good. New Age outlaw stuff, of course, all it is, oh, you didn't know, and then Brian's off to the races. Amazing. The one, Chuck and Billy. That one is so underrated. It is. And just to what, I just watched

the entrance, me and Chuck in the entrance with that song. And Chuck's little dance, just I literally almost feeding my pants. It's so, I used to think that was, but this is the things. As I, what I think is so silly is so good. It's so good. Him and that. It's just, it's wrestling for God's sakes. You can't take it serious. Too many people take it too serious. So then that one to ask man, is that the next song? Yeah, that would be, yeah, that would be it. And then, then it would be, I think the, the one was after that. Okay. Man.

Yeah. Those are all so good. Yeah. So good. Yeah. Billy and Chuck were, you guys were so ahead of your time. Way. Way ahead of your time.

And it was really good. And people don't realize how much fun that was to do that. Because when we, you know, first was pitched, it wasn't that. What was it? It was, we just wanted everything that the girls had. You know, we wanted makeup people and the whole very, very, I guess Chippendaleish. Okay.

Because they had said, well, you know, the girls, they have makeup artists. They have, you know, their own, you know, stations to do their hair and stuff. But you guys are going to do the same thing. And we did that for a week. And then it was, by the way, you're going to marry him. Whoa. Oh, wait. Not in a bad way, but it was like, how does it go from that?

Could you not just pitch that to us first? Like, is that it's okay. The best part about it was it was the undertones, right? It was never ever explicitly set. No. It was the deep stretches. When you open the door and, yeah, I'm doing the hamstring stretch. Yeah, that was a good one.

Yeah. That was a pretty good one. Yeah, they were very, yes, whatever that word is. The payoff at the end of that. And I don't know if people remember this. I think they remember a lot of, you know, what happened with Billy and Chuck, but the payoff at the end with the wedding,

it's Bischoff who's officiating the wedding. He looks, you don't, you can't even recognize him. No, nobody knew who it was all day. That's amazing. He's doing this weird voice. He's shaking as he's talking. Obviously, you knew it was going to be him, right?

Not until like way, way close to. to going out to do it. Wow. Yeah. And then because then we got that, well, you're going to get murdered. Three minute warning. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, it was, but I think, but I think by the time we got to the wedding and it was like, it was supposed to be like a put on and we're getting closer to him actually marrying us. And then it was like, okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I mean, I ain't gay or nothing. I ain't got nothing against that. But this is like, because it was going too fun because Rico was in on it. And supposed to, you know, hey, don't worry about it.

I'll get there. And it was just on and on. And you can see us kind of as we're going. We're kind of good. And then all of a sudden it keeps and we're like, okay, whoa, well, you're like, you're like, you're like going to marry. I don't know if this is, I don't know if this is a thing or not. Um, but it was fun. It really was because characters like that will test if you're that good.

And I say this all the time. At that moment in my career, it wasn't that I was stale or wasn't that it was, am I as good as I think I am in my brain that we can pull this off? Because me and Chuck had had a big talk about this. We go, hey, we're probably nothing, you know, we're not going to kiss each other, all that stuff. We're not doing that. But you have to be into this as much as I.

And we both have to be on board with whatever we do. because if one's on and one's off, people will see through it. And it won't, it just won't work. And we had a long talk about it. And, you know, they didn't just say, hey, you have to do it kind of a thing. They go, this is an idea. And me and him talked about it. And we just go, this will prove if we can, because if we can pull this off, we're pretty good.

There's nothing we can't do. Well, the reason it worked is you guys both fully committed. Yes, 100%. When we did the pose down with the girls, okay, if you ever felt uncomfortable, It was that. And it wasn't when we did it on TV. It was when we did the rehearsals and every single person in that building was sitting front row. Every one of the boys, every one of the production crew, they were all. And it looked like, it looked like somebody was trying out because we were in the ring. And when they said we were going to do it, this whole section was covered with people. Like that was very uncomfortable just knowing that your peers are there, take her sitting. there they're all watching, they're going to watch it. And they're just, but they get it. You know, it's not that they were making fun.

They just, they just wanted to see how, and we went the whole night. I mean, it was so. You guys didn't break? No, it was so good. It was really good. It was really good. It was. And I think it was ahead of its time.

And it's, I think at first, the people really didn't understand what was going on. And then as it went on, the people started turning. because they went, oh my God, they're having so much fun doing this. I'm in. I'm on board now. I'm good with that. I'm good with the uncomfortableness. I'm done with that because, yeah, it was a little funny at first for people how to take this

and we were heels and this and that. Then all of a sudden, it was weird because all of a sudden we would come out and they would start cheering and they were like smiles. And so you could feel them going, okay, okay, this is good. This is fun. They're having fun. I don't need to be so serious and be so offensive. And it's not that they were offensive are offensive by it.

It was just, I feel it was awkward for people to see two big, good looking jacked up guys doing the stuff that we were doing. But then they realize, hey, if it ain't bothering me, why should it bother you? How have we not seen Chuck Palumbo in AEW? Because he just, he has no desire right now. now. He has all his other stuff going on. I've asked him to do a couple things. He just, it's not that he won't do it for me. He just doesn't, it's just not him anymore. It feels like it'd be a fun one-off. Yeah, it would. They wanted him, the boys wanted him to come do my birthday celebration when we did the birthday thing. What a birthday present. That would have been.

Yes. But I'd called and asked him and he just, you know, he just, he's got so much other stuff going on that he's okay that he doesn't do any of the right and i get it like imagine you open up a box and it's the the headband chuck oh trust me it was his music hits they had so much stuff planned because anthony loves him you know but i mean they do they they love chuck and he's such a good guy and i know he would do it if he could but he just you know he's got the motorcycle thing he's got the car thing. He's got all kinds of things going on. And he doesn't, you know, and if he's good with it, I'm, I'm cool with whatever he wants to do. What's Rico doing these days? He's a cop in Vegas, I think. I'm surprised he didn't come to the show. He didn't come. Normally comes to show, but I got to get him

on the show. Yeah. The guy has so many stories, I'm sure. It's crazy thinking about your career and how successful you've been at every stage of your career. Like, successful as a tag team guy, Successful is a singles guy. Successful in a faction. Successful doing what you're doing now. Successful behind the scenes, coaching. It's really incredible. I've been lucky.

You know, I don't be humble. I am being humble because it's just, it's nothing that I do special. It's just I can, like I can connect with it. Like a lot of people go, I ain't talking to that guy. Talk to anybody in a company. But once you talk to me and get to know me,

I'm like, I have, you know, 10 kids at AEW now. They all call me dad, whatever, you know, because they, they know that I don't blow smoke. I'm not going to tell you something that's either going to hurt you or do something to jeopardize your career or do something that I don't think that you can do. I just won't do that. I tell you the truth. I'm always honest about if you tell me to watch your stuff and I watch your stuff and I go, you suck and your feelings get hurt, that's on you. Because all I'm, it's not, I don't do it. I never say stuff bad to maliciously hurt your feelings or I tell you stuff to make you better.

I honestly, when I coach people or do stuff at the camp or whatever, I honestly and fullheartedly want you to do and feel everything I've felt in this business. Are they? No, they will not because they don't have that kind of driver passion. And that's okay. But you have to know that when I, my voice trying to tell people all the time, don't ask him to watch. stuff if you're not if your feelings going to get hurt because if you think i'm going to watch yourself and go oh you're awesome if that's what you're looking for i ain't that guy i'm not that guy i just am not

will i purposely hurt your feelings no i won't but i'm going to tell you everything before i say stuff that's good i'm going to tell you stuff that's bad and then follow it up with hey this kind of work but you need so i'm not a i tell you stuff to me i'm not a i tell you stuff to me make you better. I don't tell you stuff to hurt your feelings or to do things like that. But today's people don't want to hear that. All they want to have people around and tell them how good they are. Okay, you're not good. Like, that's just not a thing. And not good doesn't make for a good TV show. How are you going to get better too? Yeah, you don't. But the problem is, there, it's okay. It's okay that I'm not that. And that's not acceptable. There's no way that you can accept that.

If you can get better by doing a little thing, because all my stuff is all little stuff, they can all do bigs. They can all do more stuff than I can ever imagine to do. But I don't have to because I know how to get the smallest thing, the most out of the people with doing the smallest amount of work. And that's not being lazy. That's just going, why do I want to wreck myself if I don't have to? That's being smart.

That's the idea of working smart or not harder. Hence why I've been doing this for 35 years. Exactly. You can watch a match that you're in. you bump like two, three times. Yeah. And it's just because you're working smart. Yes, it is.

And I pick my spots and make the most out of every moment. They just blow through moments and go, and it's not their fault. That's just how they, you know, that's how they're wired. And for the life of me, I can't figure it out. AEW has signed some massive talent over the last few years. Who have you been most excited about? Will Osprey. I don't know what it is about that kid.

I love him because he, because I, because I just, I tell everybody that's my retirement match. When I retire, it's me and Will. Wow. And he just said on some media scrum that he's in AEW to retire me. Wow. Like, because his work really isn't me, right? It's not, it's so opposite of me, but I love him.

He's good. He's very energetic. He's very, he doesn't just, the stuff he does is amazing. He's so athletic and can do so much stuff. But he has charisma with it. And he's very good at that. And I don't know. I just love that kid.

He's so good. And he does things in matches that you've never seen done this. Yeah, 100%. And it's amazing. He makes him look so flawless. Yes. That one thing he does off the top rope where he does a front flip lands on his feet and just kind of looks around like, yeah, no big deal. I know.

It's my favorite thing. Yes. Yeah. So he's, he's it. And I love Jay White with the boys. I think the dynamic that they all have now the juice is back. I think that like, but I'm afraid they just don't know what to do with it because it is so good. And I see so, and I don't, every time I see them that's a new, like it's so good. Like it's, they just need some. I can't believe we're going to get Will Osprey versus Billy Gunn. Whenever you retire in a hundred years or whatever. I know, but I don't know that, like, I feel the hype would be bigger than the match. Because he is, he, yeah, he, I'm afraid he'd blow me up like the first two minutes. I love Will Osprey's my favorite wrestler on this planet right now. Here's the problem with Will Ospreys. The bar is set so high because every match he has is so good. So now you go to the match going, well, it's going to be incredible because that's what this guy does.

And now the bar is set so insanely high that how is he going to keep raising that bar every time? And that's kind of the bad part of that is he's so good all the time is when he doesn't do that. Like I feel we should have kind of just backed out of him being him. And I don't mean not being him. I mean, you have to be a little bit more selective the way he works because he does do some amazing stuff. And it's just going to wear and tear on him. It just is. Our bodies aren't meant to do this.

But for him to be an attraction for a while, and I'm sure he wants to do this for a while, is he just can't go 25 minutes with everybody. It's just let me get a little bit of will, little bit of will. And then when we get to a pay review or something bigger, then I get more will. And then because now every time I see him,

like you said, every time you see him, it's 20 minutes. So every time it's like, how is he going to top what he did last time? or how is he going to top this time or this. And he somehow does. Yeah. And it's just if I see him here and there and I get my will fix of seeing one or two things that he does.

And then when he's in a program and he does a big match, then I get to see all I will. But yeah, me and him would have to be probably behind closed doors and just to go, just to do it. Because I would get absolutely murdered on social media. Can I at least be there and watch? Sure. I mean, there will be a select amount of people that will be here. I'll invite you, my kids, and just because it'll piss them off that my retirement vaccine. Fax is not with them.

But no, it would, you know, and that's another problem of social media is we could go. We could. We could have a good little eight minutes something, but the internet would absolutely murder me. And it would, like, I don't really care about that, but I do care for other people. And I don't want negative stuff to, you know, not that he probably would carry either because he would do it in a heartbeat. I know he would because he's that good of a kid. But the backlash that you get from that is, it's too much. And I don't want to put anybody through that.

I wish we could just enjoy wrestling. A hundred percent. I wish we could. But we can't because everybody has an opinion. And it has to be negative a majority of the time because that's what they do. because everybody knows more about wrestling than I do. And that's okay. But you don't have to, you know, rip stuff apart, you know, when it's not, it's not

warranted. It's not warranted. Just enjoy it. Just watch it, enjoy it and give an opinion. Not, ah, white, that old guy, Gansom. You know, come on, man. Get off. I don't understand.

Get off. So. Also, the way you move in the ring, the way you look in the ring, you know, old guy. Yeah, they doesn't, you know, it's just, it's, half the time is just because they know they can't do it, nor will they ever be able to do it. That's true. And I can still do it. And I can still do it with the best of them. And that's what I have. And that's what I hold on to. Yes. I've always wanted to ask you, is the famously called the famiser, because ass is in the middle of that and your Mr. Ass and all the ass stuff?

Kind of. Kind of. And I think it was... You're sticking your ass in their face when you're doing it. It's not really that because I kind of stole it from Genetti. So Genetti used to do that rock or drop her hold their hand, he does kind of the same move, but he holds her hand, puts their hand up, and then just drops from there. So when I saw that and trying to come up with something, I go, I'm pretty athletic. I can jump pretty high. So if they're just standing up, I can catch them. And then I just started doing that. And then it was kind of the, you know, by the time I was doing stuff on my own and hitting that finish, it was, I kind of think I referenced something or somebody had told me, you know, hey, I'll make you famous and then famous or and then it all, I think rich men's are here

and L.A. is actually the one that kind of came up with that name. So I'll give them the credit for it. But it was kind of, it all just, like it said, it's wrestling. So it all just goes into place, right? It just, I don't know why things fall in line for me, but they do. They just, you know, from the badass to the mister ass to daddy ass, they all just go in a line. I don't have to fight anything. I don't have to think of anything. It's just you go, you say it. time and you go, wow, that's awesome. That's so good. And with that move, you can give it to anybody. Yes, because everybody does it now, but me, because it hurts me. Max asked me the other day in the paper view, he goes, hey, can I do the famous or nobody's doing? I went, of course. Anthony goes,

hey, can I do the famous? I'm going to do like, oh, of course. I'm like, you know, every, you can everybody, the kids do it all the time. My kids do it all the time. But you don't do it. And my, no. And Colton hit me with it in the, the match we had with them where they beat us. And he hit me with it. And then I kicked right out of it. He goes, that move sucks so bad. I never beat anybody. So, you know, it's fun. And it's, you know, the kids, of course, are stealing everything I did. So it's, what is the actual story behind the rock promo with you, King of the Ring? But my name's Bob. My name is Billy.

It doesn't matter what name is. What's the whole story behind that? I don't think there is a story behind it. It was just we were in a program to go to Rumble or something whenever we did the kiss my ass match. Wherever though, I don't have things run together. And, you know, he always had his own writer and stuff and just, you know, I popped. From what I heard of the first time, too, I went, that's genius. The only thing that used to make me mad is I told him, I said, you have to, like when we were doing,

doing stuff back and forth, he would always, like I would cut some. And I'm not, I'll tell you right now, I'm the greatest promo ever, right? I'm just not good at it. I've just, it was something that I struggled with a little bit, but I could do it. But the problem is, is when I did it, they would always let him come over the top of me and just crush every bit of heat that I had with because they weren't, they weren't his promos and they were just promos to the point of what I'm trying to get across, right? They weren't in depth. It was just more to the point. Hey, this week, I'm going to come out there. You know, I came out of the kendosick and beat you half to death. And that's what I'm going to do, whatever. And then he comes over the top and he's one of the

best promos ever because he just is. It's hilarious. It's entertaining. So whatever heat I could get was wiped away. So finally one day I walked in the back, I said, okay, that's it. Stop putting him, like, stop letting him come over the top of me. Like you're just, I can't compete with that. I just can. And you're killing every bit of heat that I'm trying to get to there, you know, trying to get to where we're trying to get to. So now the only way I'm getting heat is like beating the life out of him is just beating him to death, you know, which gets old. But if, and if you can't cut that promo, you've got to protect me just a little bit. Let me do it. Give me some time to kind of let it sink in. And then he can come over the top

somewhere else. But he cut that promo. I laugh so hard. It was great. So good. It's hilarious. But all his promos are. You know, he's that, he has that niche and he's good at it. So how can he not? Like, you can't help and get into it. So how to, you know, you can't get any heat on it. It might be one of the best deliveries of it doesn't matter that he's had.

It is pretty good. It is, yeah. And I would, I would, even though I was in it, would say it's up there. It's up there. Even though you were at the receiving end of this. Yes. And I don't mind because it's wrestling. You can't hurt my feelings.

because I know you don't meant, well, he might have been it, but I doubt it because we're pretty good friends. Like, we're pretty close. But, yeah, it's wrestling and you got to, you know, if your feelings are getting hurt in this business, you're in a wrong business. You just can't. I guess nothing's ever malicious, I don't feel. You know, some here past might have been. You know, that's because nobody puts the handles on it. Did they have a plan for you winning King of the Ring?

Like, was it going to lead to something? You know what? I don't know. I don't because like I said I'm not a wrestling person I don't know they just came to me and I think me winning the king of ring was something I think that's when hunter was supposed to win it but he got into trouble with the click gimmick or whatever I think don't hold me to that I think so they just had come and said that hey you're winning king of the ring I went awesome I said that that should go somewhere and it went yeah right down the toilet um they hardly even mentioned me

in any of the past king of the ring winners but um I don't know you know I don't I just don't know because I just, and this sounds bad, I don't care. Like I don't, that doesn't define me. Like winning things and doesn't define who I am. As long as people know, hey, I could stick him in there with anybody and he'll do whatever I want him to do and he can work with anybody and he'll do his best to make them or do whatever we want. I'm cool with that.

The winning titles and winning this and winning that, it's, you know, it's all fake. But it is, it's exciting. I get that. And it is exciting. And I'm not saying, and I'm not trying to diminish any of the things that I've done or won. But it sits different with me because, like I said, I just was never brought up in the wrestling business. I don't know how it works. I barely know how it works today. But it's, but it was never, it was, it was a guy is going to pay me pretty good amount of money to run around and do stuff that I love to do. Like I'm going to travel all over the place. I'm going to go out there for 10, 15 minutes. I'm going to run around in my underwear. I'm going to pull my pants down. And they're going to pay me to do that. So I don't care.

You know, positioning and all that other stuff, it's what it is. But your kids, on the other hand, were brought up in this industry. Yes. So do you think that now it's a different standard for that? No, because I think that they're very level-headed. They're very in the same. They're into the job. You pay me to do this job, but then again, don't take advantage of me.

That's the one thing that they're kind of have to be careful is, is they are willing to do anything. They'll do anything. They'll make it. Now everybody wants to work on them because they're just make everybody look like a million bucks, you know? And that's not a bad thing. But it is if you take advantage of that. And that's where I step in. That's where I step in because that's just not going to be a thing.

and not being as I didn't know it the things that they know because they love what they do and they're they realize hey I'm getting paid to do this yeah and this is a lot of fun but when you and and they don't look that deep like hey we have to be jams or hey we have to but they do want to do some fun program and storylines that actually means something and that's completely understandable because I was the same way once I started I'll go just put us in something that's fun right like I like I like I like Terry Funk and Mick, you know, put us in something like that. Put us in something fun where we can just get beat up and do fun things. So they do want to do that, but they just, I just don't want them to get taken advantage of.

If your titles didn't mean much to you, did their titles mean something to you? So, okay, my titles meant something to me. I'm not saying that. Okay. I'm not saying that. They do mean something because it means that I'm the best at what I do. it's the same with them it's the best at what they do

and it means the company believes in you yes yeah so I don't that's what I mean I didn't mean that bad what I was saying is they're like so I held the tag titles 11 times I lost them 11 times too so you have to look into perspective yeah I won them 11 times but I also lost them 11 times

right or lost them probably more than that but it's yes does winning the title means up of course it does because like you said it means that the company believes in you, it means that you are the best at what you do in that division or that of what they have faith in you that you will bring people to the buildings. And that's what we did. Me and Brian did that. You know what I mean? Smoking gun stuff was new and, you know, we were trying to figure out what we were doing there in the first place. And but by the time me and Brian were

winning them, it was, it was like he thought it was the world. And I did too. So it's not that I don't, didn't appreciate it. It's just, it's what you do. It's what I'm in the company to do. The only thing I never cared about was a world title. That was never a thing. It's not that I didn't want to win it. I just, it doesn't define me. That doesn't define me. None of the titles that I've won or King of the Ring or whatever don't define who I am as a performer. As a performer, I want to be known that everybody could work with me. I did my best to get you over and I did whatever you wanted to do. That's what I want to be remembered as, not 11 time and Intercontinental Champ and all that other stuff. Those are just things.

It means more to me that people could trust in me and believe that I could do the job when I needed to do when I was called on to do it. That, my friend, is a hell of a legacy. It is. And I will be super happy with it. Yeah. How much longer can you keep doing this? I wish I knew. Like, I don't feel too bad.

Like, surprisingly. You look great. But a lot of it is the way that I take care of myself. I mean, yeah, do I wake up until I get moving? Yeah, I'm miserable. Things, you know, I just found out of two stress fraction in my back, but they don't stop me from doing what I do. Like it doesn't hinder me. I don't.

But I can still do what I do at a pretty good level. I mean, I'm not going to go out, like I said, I'm not going to go out there and go 25 minutes with Will. That ain't happening because that's out of the car. But do I still have equity in the company? can I still bring something? Damn right, I can because the minute I step out that those people go nuts. And they start saying my name and they start. So as long as I bring value and it's not, you know, if I go out there and they go, oh, God, really? Like where the first time I hear that, I'll quit. But as long as as I can do something to help the acclaim or help the company or help my kids,

yeah, I'll stay around. There's no reason I can. And I have no problem just being the acclaimed side kid. I love it because I get to run around, talk to people, act like a goofball, interact when I want to, and work every now and then. Right. And when I work, it's nothing crazy. My kids ask me that they go, did you just take a triple power from them? They go, what are you thinking? I went, I thought it would help them.

And go, okay, don't ever do that again. It didn't help. I said, okay. Well, I thought in my head it did. But as long as I can do that and I feel good and I'm not, you know, it's a, It's a struggle. The only thing is a struggle is flying these days because I hate it. And you're a large man.

Yeah, but I mean, as long as I'm still, as long as I'm still having fun and doing what I do and I can bring something to help, I'm in. I'm good. How many decades have you wrestled in? 80s. 90s, 2000s, 2010s, 2020s, 2020s, 20s, five decades of wrestling. Yeah, because I've wrestled. I wrestled, I wrestled Sting and Lugar in 89, I think, or 88 in Atlanta.

I just went. I hadn't been training barely a day and went up there with some guys because they were going to do the tapings that they do there. And they asked me about wrestle. And I went, I ain't good at it. They go, you don't really have to be. Okay. So, but I had the two easiest guys. There is.

You know, Sting was easy. Luger was easy. And then, you know, and it's funny, Lugar had one of his guys at a school and he came up to see him. And I guess it was when that was going around me and Lugar and he like damn near dropped me on my head and all God. He goes, I'm so sorry. I said, Lex, that was 40 years ago. Sometimes I said, I'm over it. It's okay.

But, you know, it's funny. It's funny to see what, like where you start, right? because like wrestling lex and sting and then wrestling sting you know 40 30 years later me and colton against him and derby and then seeing what i did then and wrestling the people now that there's not too many of them you know and it was just sting but it's funny to watch what you what i was at one time to what i've become now that's incredible it is it is and it's super cool Yeah. You know, why would you not?

If you could do this, why would you not do it? No matter what people say or retire already, why are you putting oil? You know, whatever. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because you can't do what I do. That is a vocal minority. That is a small amount of people. When you listen to the reaction in the arenas.

That's all that matters to me. Because talking about that was when me and Jay did our thing. is they, you know, they absolutely, you know, why would you put Jay in that? Whatever, whatever, whatever. Okay, first of all, if you were in that building, those people were going absolutely ballistic. And that's all that matters. Yeah, like Max. Because I'm entertaining those people that are there.

If you want to be entertained at home, but all you, all you're watching for is an old guy beating up a young guy that you like. No, I'm not a regular old guy. You're not even an old guy. I am 260 jack to the hill. And if you think, like, I would love for them, just test me. That's all you have to do. And then you'll change your mind.

But if you sit behind a desk in your home and you know you're protected, you can say whatever you want, even though it hurts people's feelings. And that, to me, is ludicrous, is insane. But they can do it because I gave you a platform so you can do it. Like Max Castor told me on the show, Twitter's not real life. No. That's not. Yes, 100% is not.

You know, as long as my boss thinks I'm doing a good job and the people around me think I'm doing a good job, I don't care. You know? Yeah. My wife says I'm really slow once in a while. Oh, wow. She's the worst. Come on, Paula. I know.

She's the best. She is the best. And this is probably the point where we should put her over a little bit. So I can, so when I call her when I leave here, she's a year, I put you over. But she's my worst critic. So I'll call, like my biggest mistake is I'll call her after and I go, so how was it? And she goes, oh, you're your back hurting. You're really slow.

I go, no, I'm okay. And then she just, the last couple she's watched, she goes, okay, you're back. You're back. She's the sweetest woman. Like when I see you guys at a signing or something, she will like throw Austin and Colton out of the way, throw you out of the way and like run to me and give me this giant hug. she's this the best. Yeah, we don't, we don't function in my house without her.

Like, without her, boy, whewf. Wow. I would be ruined because she keeps, you know, she keeps everything in line and keeps us straight. She is amazing. She really is. I appreciate her. Every time I see her, I'm like, you guys are the best.

I know. You're the best. Thank you for coming in. It's always going to catch up with you. You know, I told you. All you got to do is ask. I love. I love the conversation.

These are good, these are good conversations. And they, you know, let me get out some frustrations and tell my story. We didn't even get to my bull riding stuff that you wanted to talk to. Oh, we touched on it. I just think about, you know, how fascinating life would be back to the future style. Yeah. If Billy Gun was a bull ride. Yes.

Yeah, which would be out of the realm because I'm so gigantic now. Yeah. Yeah. But no, this is all. I love that. And I'm glad I got to do it because I, No matter what I do, I will make time for you. I'm glad we had you here in the studio, West Coast Creative Studio.

Yes. Yeah, we got to do this in studio. We didn't set up like a stand and a thing where you go. Hey, so anyway. I don't even have handheld mics anymore. This is so much better. Yeah, those aren't even a thing really, right? I got to step it up, you know?

Reception is reality. I know. And you're kind of a big deal now. No, you are. Like, through the grapevine, when I say your name, you'd be amazed how many people go, yeah, that's a good one. Could you tell that to your boss maybe? Yes.

Well, I've tried to tell him. Let's get some of your colleagues on the show. You don't listen to anything. That'd be nice. But yeah, I mean, you have a good name in the people love. Like, there's never been a time where I've mentioned that I've been on your show or somebody doing your show that it's been negative. So you should be nice to hear that.

Good. I like that. Yeah, because there's very few, and I don't do a bunch of them, but I know there's very, Few podcasts that, you know, you go, oh, yeah, that's a good one. Well, thank you. We're getting some big guests, you include it. So thank you.

Thanks for saying that. Things you crushed my lead in before. Who comes on the show most often? I end every interview with gratitude because it's such a big part of my life. What are three things in your life, Billy, that you're grateful for? My wife, my kids, and my job. My wife is number one. Well, my wife and my kids are number one.

Like they are what turns my world. And then my job because it supports my wife's Amazon habit. You know, so yeah, that's really my wife and my kids. It really are. And, you know, because I don't have a bunch of friends, but who I have are very, very good to me. and my kids are my friend, my wife is my friend. And that's, yeah, it doesn't get better than that.

That's great. Yeah. Cheers, man. Oh, yeah. Yeah, cheers, these are great. Yeah, these are that, like, I forgot to, sorry, I forgot to do. You've been drinking it the whole time. I know.

So I just wanted to know that this was very good, by the way. And I drank it all. Oh, I'll give you another one. Yeah. Maybe you can give me something to take with me. I don't know. I'll ship some to your house. Yeah.

Yeah. Go. I got a hookup, but I'll help you out. Thanks. I know a guy. Yeah. Man, Billy Gunn is just the best. Big shout out to him for coming by the West Coast Creative Studios in Hollywood so we

could record this in person. You just feel so energized when you talk to him. He's 60 years old and he looks a lot younger than that. And he also just looks like he's having the best time of his life every time he's in the ring. We should be celebrating the fact that he's 60 years old. old. He's been wrestling in five different decades, and he's still able to do all of the things that he used to be able to do. I love it. Snap a screenshot and let us know what you thought of this

episode and tag us so we can share it as well. He's at Real Billy Gunn. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and I will leave you with this quote from Grace Hansen, which I just think, wow, there's just so much to this. Don't be afraid your life will end. Be afraid that it will never. for begin. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Muhammad Hassan coming back on the show. And man, this guy has an incredible story. We will see you on Thursday for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer,

Allie. How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.