Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Booker T On LA Knight, His Favorite Catchphrase, King Booker's Accent, NXT Commentary

Episode Date: July 27, 2023

Booker T (@bookert5x) is a 2-time WWE Hall of Famer and is known for his time in WCW, TNA and WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Reality of Wrestling in Houston, TX to talk about his radio show "The Hall of Fame" that he hosts with Brad Gilmore, his wrestling promotion "Reality of Wrestling", his thoughts on LA Knight, which of his WCW Championships meant the most to him, his hilarious segments with Goldust, the Supermarket Brawl with "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, his memories of the last episode of WCW Nitro, becoming the King Booker T character, doing commentary on NXT with Vic Joseph, his favorite catchphrases and much more! Check out Booker T's Reality of Wrestling here: https://www.realityofwrestling.com/ Sponsors:  To get 15% off MudWtr go to http://mudwtr.com/cvv to support the show and use the code CVV15  Use the code CVV to get a 50% welcome bonus at http://mybookie.ag Quote I'm thinking about: "Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up." - Thomas Edison For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blin. Oh, it is so good to see you, my friends. And welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. And before we dive into this interview with the legend with the man himself, the two-time Hall of Famer, Booker T, I just have to say thank you. Because as of right now, Insight with Chris Van Fleet is the number three wrestling

podcast in the world. And that is all because of you showing up each and every episode. I mean, I guess there's a little part of it that is also owed to some pretty big guests that we've had lately. I mean, most recently, Cody Rhodes on the last episode, L.A. Knight, yeah. Not long ago, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Undertaker, it's been a pretty good run here. And I just want to say thank you for being on this journey with us. Number three, pretty good.

Can it be number two? And then, Can it be number one? So let's see. If you're not already subscribed, please take a second right now to click subscribe or follow, wherever you listen to this right now. I did this interview with Booker in Texas. So I did this in Houston, Texas at his reality of wrestling show. That's his promotion that he has there.

And man, it's hard to call this an indie promotion because there was 1,100 people there. This is by far the biggest independent wrestling show I've ever been to. in my life. And I started going to wrestling shows when I was 16 years old. I was going to AWF shows in Toronto, Apocalypse Wrestling Federation in Toronto. So 1,100 people to be there was amazing. It was the debut of Zilla Fatu. He is the son of the late great Umaga. So great to see him in action. Just great to see Booker in action. Man, I mean, you know this already and you'll certainly see this in this conversation. he is so freaking entertaining. So a big thank you to Booker's co-host

and my good friend Brad Gilmore, his co-host on the Hall of Fame radio show and podcasts that they had. Brad connected me and Booker a few years ago to do this interview that we did on Zoom and then we were able to do this one here in person. So Brad, you're the man. Thank you.

So shout out to Brad and also his wife Farah for letting me stay at their place and they were so hospitable there with their black cat named Luna. So we dig into a lot here with Booker T, and I hope that you enjoy this episode. If you do, please snap a screenshot just to let us know that you're listening and tag us so we can share it out. He's at Booker T5X. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and let's get into it. Ladies and gentlemen, the two-time Hall of Famer, the five-time, five-time, five-time. Now I've got to do the whole thing.

I've committed to it, five-time, five-time. W-C-W champion, Booker T. Good to see you, sir. It's been a while. Yeah, yeah. You're looking good. Feel good. I feel good. You posted this photo the other day where you're flexing on NXT on commentary.

You're looking good. Real good. With a tea on the app. I'm in the gym. I'm in the gym training on a regular, you know, a lot of people out there. You know, I got called out. You know, ride back called me out to a fight. This morning I woke up and looked on YouTube.

I'm like, I got to stay in shape, man. more than anything because one thing about being a man, you know, you always feel that urge to want to get back in there sometimes. I feel like people saw that photo and went, man, he's in such great shape. I'm like, when is Booker T never been in good shape?

I mean, come on. To stay ready, you know, to be ready, you know what I mean? That's my motto, you know, because life is, life move fast. It's fluid. You can find yourself getting old quick. If you're just sitting at home thinking about what happened in the past, you know,

We're here at reality of resting today. Summer Champions now. We're thinking about the future. We're thinking about Summer Champions 20 in a much, much bigger arena, seeing our young kids go out there and perform at the highest level. So, man, I'm living my best life, right? I feel like you're having a lot of fun doing commentary on NX2. You know what?

I think that's the difference. When I was on Raw, when I was on Smackdown, everything had to be politically correct. Of course, I had, you know, something in my ear. Or someone in your ear. And, you know, sometimes, you know, you couldn't be yourself. And I find myself at NXT being kind of like I am here at reality of wrestling.

You know, I'm throwing my clipboard. And then I'm having fun at the same time. With NXT, I can go out there and be serious. But then I can talk about, you know, a hot of discotty, you know. So I'm shaggy-duggy-dug-quack. You know, so it's just all about having balance and trying to think about one thing, first and foremost, and that's the young guy, the talent.

Trying to put a spotlight on those guys and, you know, hopefully give them the rug. It's something we talk about in the best. Do you feel like those are, like, your kids? Like, when they graduate on, you see them on the main roster, you're like, yeah, there we go. Yeah, you know, my man, Brad Gilmore, he was telling me about the interview that he saw

what he Uso's doing. and he quoted, you know, something that I said, you know, back in the day. And when I hear something like that, I go, man, the lessons, it's all about the lesson you teach. It's all about, you know, getting back. And the ones that really, really appreciated like a Grayson Waller. Couldn't wait for that guy to get to the main roster. I think I might have been one of the first guys to say, Grayson Waller needs to be on the

main roster just because he's mature enough. I think his talent is at that level to where he can go. go out there and perform, you know, equally with anyone on that main roster. So for me, it's all about the Carmelo Hayes. It's all about the young guys and watching these guys growing. And for me, like I say, I'm just happy to be, like, able to, like, be walking and still be a part of it. Oh, yeah, God.

You know, I tell, I tell Brad, you know, when we're doing All of Fame, I say, anytime you hear me say something stupid word, you feel like I'm missing. said it, and I'm losing it. Go talk to Sharmail. You see Grayson Waller called The Rock Out? Hey, man, that's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, I guess so. The guy's the guy. You're supposed to go to the top level

when you're in this business. If you want to feel like you're a top guy, we was just talking about the comparison. Kevin Nash made just a few weeks or so ago. And comparing L.A. Knight to the Rock. Exactly. L.A. Knight and the Rock, L.A. Knight stole Coastee, Boston.

Of course. You want to steal from the best guys. You know, for me, I made sure I stole from the best guys that went out there. Who did you steal from? You know, Bob Ward Jr., Pat Tanaka, the Great Muta. Certain guys, I stole a lot of their flavor. You know, Pat Tanaka did a beautiful. flying form.

You know, the great mood of the way he floated over guys, you know, when he would hit the ropes, the way he would drop an elbow and kick his legs out at the same time. You know, so for me, I stole, like, stuff that you didn't really notice too much, you know. So for me, I tell all my young guys, if you can find something and make it your own, you know, do it. When you're talking to young guys here at reality of wrestling or when you're doing some coaching at the Performance Center,

what's the one piece of advice that you seem to, always be coming back to. Man, 99%, 100%, you know, if you're 99%, you know, keep your mouth shut. Yeah, if you're 100% speak up 100% of the time, you know, because I'll listen, you know, if it's something that, you know, that resonate with me and something that get through with me, and I go, you know, she might be right. You know, I'm not the one that think I'm the smartest guy in the room or I know it all or anything like that.

So I just try to tell my young guys, know when to speak. up, you know, just like my, you know, my right-head man, Kevin Byrne, who I started with me when he was 18 years old, came to me about three years ago, and he go, book, I need to talk to you. And I go, what do you need? He goes, you remember, you know, you say 99%, 100%, I go, yeah. He goes, you know, I I need a raise. What I was before? And I looked at him, and I just started laughing, you know, and I go, how much you need? And he goes, such and such, I go, okay, they go, okay, they get the hell out of here. You know, but I need guys that know their work,

that know when they're working a little bit hard, maybe he just needed a little bit of pinch. Yeah. They help him out a little bit. You know what I mean? So for me, I get it. I understand it. And I was there once upon a time myself.

And I was always the guy to speak up, you know, and sometimes you can get fired, you know, when you speak up. Yeah. You mentioned our friend Brad Gilmore, who is behind the cameras here. Thank you for everything, Brad. He's your co-host on the Hall of Fame. You guys make a lot of headlines. Every single week, you're always giving hot takes on

on different things that's going on in the world of wrestling. Do you ever get worried about giving your opinion if it's a friend involved or a former co-worker? You know, I never, as far as giving my opinion, I never say anything that I'm not willing to say in somebody's face. You know, and that's just the way I've always, you know, did my form of journalism, I don't say anything to tarnish anyone.

I don't do anything to try to make anybody look bad. I never curse if you notice on my show or anything like that. And what I say, I stand by it 100% every time. And nine times out of 10, it comes around that I was right. Every single time it comes around and I was right. So my opinion, I think, is strong as far as, you know, way the people look at it and the way they try to make it hot takes. But at the end of the day, I stand by it 100%.

I'm so curious when fans come up to you, you have so many great catchphrases. What's the phrase you hear the most? Tell me you didn't just say that. Yeah, you didn't just say that. Tell me you didn't just say that. Shuggy, they get quag, quag, of course. You know, of hotty, biscotti is getting hot. But, I mean, it's like 10 more.

You could keep listening them off. We ain't going. You can get the T-shirt. That's Mount Everest. I'm talking about the brothers. We just try to have, life is, like I say, it's tricky. You never know what's around the corner. You never know when it's going to be your time.

You know, you can wake up and you're out here. You wonder what the hell does happen. You know, so for me, I try to live life. I try to let my kids see their dad and their mom just got back from Vegas. and my wife called me, and she was worried about what we were doing at the house, and I say, why can't she just enjoy herself in Vegas and go watch Urshire?

You know, so for me, I want my wife to be able to, you know, I want to be able to have fun myself. Yeah. We could do it together, and we could do this thing, you know, as a team, you know, and it's a song by Life Jennings must be nice, having a woman to grow old wit. Yeah.

until God calls one of us home. I think that's what lies all about. What's a catchphrase you tried that just didn't get over, and you can't believe it didn't get over? I haven't had one, man. No, I'm serious. Every one of my catchphrases normally stick. But it's just me having fun.

It's like a comedian, you know, comedian tell jokes, and the funniest jokes are the stuff that you just, you know, saw around the house. You know what I mean? And for me, I think that's what I do with the way I do commentary and the way I go out. I don't even call myself a commentator, actually, you know, kind of like a comedian out there. I don't know. Like I said, I try to make those two hours feel a certain way just like I did when I was wrestling.

Because wrestling, the reason I have so many fans is because the way the fans felt when they watched me, the way they felt when they left the arena. Yeah. I always went and watched karate movies when I was a kid. And when I left that arena, five deadly venoms, man, I think I was on fire for the week. You know, the Shogun Assassin, oh, man, I just had to have more of that. You know, and then the bogus ones, oh, man, that's Jojo, man. I didn't like that one, you know the ones you like.

Yeah. Because they made you feel a certain way. And that's what we do, commentating, wrestling, entertainment. Your style of commentary is perfectly complimented to my good friend Vic Traillianti. WBUE fans will know him as Vic Joseph. You guys perfectly compliment each other. Now, Vic makes it really, really easy for me, man. I couldn't do the job without Vic, to be honest.

I would not be as comfortable as I am without Vic. He really does all the heavy, just like Brad does. Brad does all the heavy lifting. I'm just to start. Come on. Vic, he does all the heavy lifting. I'm just the star. No, no.

And I say that giving them props, man, because I couldn't do it without him. I couldn't do it without bread. No way. You know, I would be in Vegas, you know, covering Crawford Spitz, if it wasn't for Brad. I couldn't do it. No way.

You know, I have a saying, you know, when I was, you know, getting ready to, for my bid, for mayor here in the city, Houston, things fell through. But I know what I did. do run, I'm going to win. That's just no doubt. I'm going to win.

The slogan for me is, then for years, you know, respect your elders, you know, but for me it's respect your young people, you know, because they're the future. They're the one just going to guide us in this new technical world, you know. And if it wasn't for these young people,

I can only imagine where it's old hairs, like myself would be where I can't even understand what Twitter and Instagram is. I'm mixing them up. You know what I mean? So, no, man, it's true. Brad came to me when he was 18 years old. Now he's married, successful, you know, more famous, almost more famous tonight.

You hear that, Brad? Wow. But it took a lot of work. It took, you know, tried to be a certain field for Brad to be able to look at and be able to emulate and understand what, understanding what this life and being a man is really, really truly all about. I feel like it's just a matter of time until Vick's on the main roster. He's so, so good. Oh, man.

He's my guy. He's going to be on the main roster. I'm pushing for him to be on the main road. He was on Raw. Well, you know what? You can get there, but you got to know how to stay there. You got to know how to steal somebody's job, you know, so like, like me. You know, you know.

Wade Barrett stepped out for a minute. As soon as I stepped in, I said, I ain't getting this job back. They go after sign me for a bigger contract next year. This is so fun. No, because you got to know how to get there. You got to know how to stay there. For me, I don't know how long I'm going to stay there. But I know.

As long as you want. Come on. No, initially they say, we like what we see. Just, you know, my ad lit. Oh, you know, just that. You know, it's enough. It's the price of it, is. You know.

So Vic, the next time he gets a chance to get in that spot, He's going to know exactly what it means and how to stay in that spot. You know, talking about catchphrases, I think a lot of fans, they know your theme song now is, can you dig it, sucker? They forget that in WCW, it was don't hate the player, hate the game, and then your music would have. Yeah, don't hate the player, hate the game. You know, that was another one I stole from somebody, you know.

That's what wrestling is. You know, can you dig it? You know, Shaft. Shaf was a bad mother shed show. But, you know, but we could dig it. You know what I mean? It was one of those things. For me, watching Richard Rowndry as a kid,

I wanted to be Richard Roundtree. You know, Rich Routry said, can you dig it? I was like, oh, man, I wish I could just say that one time, you know, to act tough, like Richie. You know, so, yeah, man, nice trick. This episode is brought to you by Mud. water. I drink mud and I love it. This has actually been part of my morning routine for the last few months now and I just love the way that this makes me feel. If you haven't heard of mud water,

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That's mudwater.com slash CVV. When you talk about being the five-time, five-time, five-time, five-time, five-time, five-time, W-CW champion, which one of those means the most to? Number one and number five. No, number one and number six. Ah. Yeah. Number one, you know, when I first wanted, was like a magical moment. You know, I never put myself.

on the radar as far as winning the World Heavyweight Championship or anything like that. I know it dripped one day of being the World Everywhere Champion. It just never did. I just wanted to be the best wrestler. I just wanted to be the best wrestler in the locker room. And being the best wrestler in the locker room as the night able to be throughout my career

to have had a championship around my way since the beginning from, you know, when I was in the Independence scene. So for me, when I won the World Heavyweight Championship, I remember a guy by the name, Chris Cruz. We were coming from a pay-per-view one night, and he goes, book, one day you're going to win the World Heavy Way Championship. And I go, man, get out of here, man. No, excuse me, Gary Caput.

That's who it was, not Chris Cruz. Gary Caputty, he said, you're going to win a heavyweight championship one day. And I go, no way. And I'm saying, get out of here, man. And many, many years later, I'm in a position to win the World Heavyweight Championship. Controversial night, of course. But winning it, I think that controversy made that night. for me even bigger, you know, more memorable for everyone.

And number six, with my queen. In WWE. Yeah. It was magical, man. Both of those nights was like equally magical. Like to the cosmos, man, to the nebula as far as how they felt for me. Because when they were my wife against Ray Mysterio, it was so great. working with the best in the world,

Raymisterio, my favorite wrestler. What an awesome night. What did it mean winning it on the last episode of Nitro beating Scott Steiner and being U.S. champion and World Heavyweight Champion that night? You know what, man? It felt good, you know, but it wasn't something I really... I really don't think I've thought about it really that much to this day.

because it was a changing of the guards. And for me, I've only looked at the business as a job. I've never looked at it as, you know, me being famous or anything like that. I've always looked at it as, it's my job. I'm going to work with my hard hat on. So what I won it that night, it just let me know that I had a chip in the game. They had their eye on me because they made this decision to say, we won't book to loads this down.

And me being that kid who, rose from the ashes in WCW to be the final guy to be the, you know, double champion, World Air Force, the United States Champion, to close the company down a historical night that would live throughout the history of the annals of time. It would never be changed. I never saw that. Never saw that in a million years. But it let me know, man, I was pretty good, you know.

I always thought I was pretty good. I always thought I was, you know, top five in the business. I used to tell guys that all the time. William Regal and all those guys used to want to kill me because I used to say I was, you know, top five worker in the world. You know, they said, what number? You know, what number are? It doesn't matter.

I say, I'm hovering. You know, sometimes, sometimes, you know, but I mean, I'm here, you know. So it always been about being the best, you know, so championships just follow. Did you ever have a conversation with Shane McMahon backstage, the last Nitro? Because that must have been strange, like you never see the guy, and then all of a sudden he's just there at Nitro. Yeah. You know, I do remember having a conversation with Shane.

I can't remember what it was, but I know I was like his guy. I came into WWE, boom. Him and I, we was boom, connected it to hips. Yeah. We did so much stuff together. I had so much fun working with Shane McMahon. And it was all because he wanted to, you know, work with me.

And, you know, I don't know. for me having that happen I don't know why it happened sometimes a lot of guys came into the W.E. at that time it didn't work out for for me I came in I had a crappy match the first night with Buff Bagwell due to you know circumstances

whatnot a lot of guys You never had another one. Yeah exactly and there's so many guys that didn't have another one and for me I always looked at it as you know I was prepared at WWE. I remember in WCW at the end of that run,

so many guys was getting lazy. They were, you know, making so much money. It was like it was going to last forever. But I could see the ship, you know, like the Titanic going down. And I was like, let me, you know, really, really prepare myself. And I always tell my students, one of my best quotes

is if you can't make it in the locker room, you have no chance of making it in the ring. That's one of my most famous. quotes, because the guys will break you in the locker room before you have a chance at making it in the ring. You know, you got to, you got to be likable. You know, for me, I've always been likable, you know, but I've always been, you know, a man of my word, you know, I've always been looking for a fight to it at the same time. I think a big part of you being really likable is you've never taken yourself too seriously. Like, you've had so many incredible and memorable

comedic moments that are right up there with the serious moments you've had. You got to be able to laugh at yourself. You can't take it serious. It's professional wrestling. I never say I earned the title. I'm never going to say I earned it. You know, because it's not like you have made. It's not like boxing. But I do feel like I've earned it to the perspective that the company look at me as the guy that could, you know, be the head of the company and pull that load, you know, like a judge scene of being that guy in that position, pulling that load. I think for me, I always say it's not the championship.

It's the title. That right there, more than anything. So I was at WrestleMania 18 because I'm Canadian, I'm from Toronto. Yeah. Did you see that sign in the crowd while you were wrestling

that they're fighting over shampoo? Yeah. While you were working the bat? Stupid though, you know. Me and Stoneco, Steve Austin, the grocery store. People come up to be and go, man, my favorite match with you. My favorite match was you as doggo Steve Austin

the grocery store. You know, to be able to go out and like just make a fool of ourselves, make fun of ourselves, for the fans, entertain them. And then we'll get in the ring and we'll have a real serious fight. You know, and that's the balance of professional wrestling. You've got to know when to have fun, when to take yourself serious and when not. I've seen guys pass on, pass up on many and many opportunities

not knowing how to really understand this business. And for me, since day one, watching Houston Wrestling here as a kid, I knew what it was. I wasn't a kid going to school going, oh, man, I want to fight you over wrestling because I believe it. I was like, man, these guys are some great entertainers, man. And I knew the really good ones from the guys who were mediocre to the guys who were just learning. So I was like, man, I think I could do this. I loved it. The stuff you did with Gold Dust is like, it's so, so good.

Some of my best work with Gold Dust, because we were friends and, you know, this business, you know, we said you got a bump card. You know, when you punch it up, it's over with. It's time to check out. Goldie and I, we would come to work, and we would have nothing to do but a skit. And we would be in the locker room, you know. This went on for weeks. We didn't have to wrestle at all. And we would be like, man, we're stealing money.

We didn't get that bag has to do this. Are you kidding me? We don't have to work this week. So you got to know when to put it in, like, cruise control, when, you know, just, you know, kick back and, you know, relax. And know when, know this business works in circles. It's not always going to be your time. You know, so for me, I've always said,

when it's time, I was GI Bro. You know, Dallas Pace came in the locker room one day, and he saw him in there putting on my paint. You know, and he goes, man, what are you doing? What are you doing, bro? I look at him and I go, bro, I'm just having some fun. Then I was on my boat every weekend.

I was fishing into golf. You know, I'll come to work, go play GI, bro, go back. You know, I went on the house shows. You got to know when to have fun, take your time. It's a long haul. It's a Samarathon. You know, you've still never paid for that slurpy in that seven-wise a second. They didn't have the booker teacups.

Yeah. They must have been sold out. They sold. Must have been sold out. WrestleMania 21 when they first went to Hollywood, and you did the Samuel L. Jackson Pulp Fiction thing? Yeah. How much of that monologue do you still know?

None of it. Was it Ezekiel 25? Yeah, I'm serious. No, I'm serious, man. I remember when I was going over because the thing is, I've never watched Pulp Fiction. You're missing out. It's Tarantino's best work.

watch like bits and pieces. Oh, come on. It's just, you know, Tarantino is not like my cat, you know. I get it. Yeah. I get it. I like, you know,

Kiel, I mean, what was Kielbiel? Yeah. Volume 1 and 2. I like that. Okay. Yeah. But, you know, it just wasn't my couple. But you memorized it for that moment.

That was it. Man, I got through it. I got through it. You know, and I was like, thank God. You know, for me, you know, it's been like that with a lot of stuff. You know, if it's not live,

if I'm not, like, under some pressure, I can't read it. You know, and I'm with Brad. We're going over something, the red light, so I'll banish my way through it. But if, you know, we got to rehearse it, I'm like, you go on, I can't get it, you know, but it's just, I don't know,

I'm a precious type of guy, red light type of guy. When that red light is on and you're in the ring, who's been your favorite person to work? Man, Christian. Of course, back in WCW, you know, you know, to Benoit, Best of Seven, nothing got better than that.

You know, working, you know, like some of the greats like Bradhart, you know, Rick Martell, Steed Boat, Savage, you know, those are the guys that come to mind for me because I can remember learning, you know, more than anything. I could just remember keeping my ears open and wondering, man, is it this easy? It doesn't supposed to be this easy all the time. You know, because they went out and performed at such a level to work.

You didn't have to do anything, but just keep your ears open and react. And that's what I try to teach my students is, you know, we don't think about selling. We try to think about reacting. You know what I mean? We don't even sell. It's not even a part of our, you know, vocabulary. We think about reacting. Because if I hit you in the mouth, you know, you know how to react if you've been hit in the mouth before.

It doesn't really hurt if your adrenaline is fly. You know, it might study you. You know, so give me that reaction, you know, opposed to, you know, like a lot of guys, you know, television today. You know, so it's, you know, about trying to keep it real. You just listed a lot of legends there, and there's a lot of people that will consider you one of the best of all time. Who's on your Mount Rushmore? I don't know, man. You know what, I don't know.

I really don't look at wrestling like that. Of course you got Rick Flair. You know, he's going to be there. You know, of course you got Hogan because when I look at Rick Flair, I look at him for a certain reason. And the reason is, man, the work Rick Flair put in, man, he's like a god. I'm talking about the young Rick Flair that went, he ran hard on both ears. In the ring, he performed at the high's level.

Then you got a guy like Hogan who came along and changed to the name of the game as far as how much money guys were making. And then the Hollywood thing, you know, thing, you know. And then the other two probably, you know, steamboat, of course, for being perhaps the best baby face that ever lived, you know, a guy that can go out there and perform at such a high level. And then you got a guy like Piper who couldn't do anything, but such a major star, you know, so.

But the Rushmore thing is like, you know, up for debate. Everybody's going to have their own, you know, Rushmore. Should I be on there? You know, the greatest, you know, 35-time champion? Perhaps. I mean, when people think of the big goals, you're one of the names that immediately pops in their house. No, you know, greatest king of all?

No, but, you know, I'm not mad myself on the back or anything. I mean, definitely the greatest king. Of course. You know, of course I was the greatest king of all the time. They can't even do it anymore because, I was such a great key. It's dead. It could never be done.

And that was by design as well. That didn't happen by accident. I knew being King Booker was going to break the mold. No one was ever going to be able to follow that act ever again. How much work did you put into the accent? The accident just had to be stupid. It didn't have to be real. but it had to be serious.

It had to be, you know, I had to believe it. And then that, you know, then I would break character and go street, but I would kick back into my character because just like I talked to my students, like working with the NXT guys, you're acting, has to be, you know, on another level when you're trying to make fans feel a certain way. Because everyone knows when they walk in the door what they're going to get. get here. But when they walk out and they go, man, I can't wait to get back and watch it again. That's because they felt a certain way. And that's what King Booker brought to the table. And so

much went into that whole thing. I couldn't even do it for that long. I had a heel run and I left W.W.E after that run because I was so tired at the end of it because it was taxi. But it was great at the same time, the best work I ever did. And then right into TNA right after that, I feel like people sleep on the main event mafia. It was so good. You know what? It was good. It could have been great.

What do you think was the difference there? Well, it could have been one of those memorable fact shows like the NWO, like DX. But the company never really understood what they were doing with it. I made a statement on my show that TNA, they didn't have, you know, they wouldn't really locked in as far as being focused on certain things. And I think, you know, that was one of them because you had, you know, five world champions there. You know, all of us that, you know, worked at a very high level. And then you had all those young guys like Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, you know, Bobby Rood. You know, we had so much talent that we could have worked with.

And none of it really, really came to fruition. And really, for me, I really don't know why. And I tell people I lost my seal after about two weeks. And then you stayed there three more years? I want to stay there two years. Oh, two runners. People were like, what a seal? You know, look it up.

But I had fun there, but nothing, no work really got done. My whole two years there, nothing, it was like a vacation every two weeks. Charmell and I were going to Disney, hanging out. But, you know, they would celebrate over, you know, a good match. It'll be a party. You know, it sounds great. You know. You know, so it was got a, it was just like a little love, but I, I must say, I had a good time there.

My exit, wasn't that great. I always say that I was talking on my show, I felt like, I felt embarrassed about some of the stuff that I did in TNA. I felt like I could have worked a little bit harder in certain places, you know what I mean? And that's just my fault. That's what I'm just, I'm fallible. I'm flawed. Do you specifically remember the moment that you went from being good to being great? Yeah, yeah, I think so.

It happened sometime when I was around 36, 37. So you would have been in WWE at the time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was really good at my whole career. But when I start thinking, man, I wish I, you know, when you hear people say, man, I wish I had the knowledge, you know, when I was young, Yeah, yeah, when you see the Incredible Hulk, you know, man, if I could put this in my young body, you know what I?

Man, for me, yeah, man. Was it a match? Was it a promo? Was it a moment? No, it just was the way I could go in the ring and not even think at all and understand everything that was going on. And I tell people it was like an out-of-body experience. You're sitting back and you're watching yourself work.

You're giving yourself everything that you want to see. not anything that you want to do. So what is that advice you would give to you younger self? Oh man, the advice I would give to my younger self would be just like we tell young guys, now slow down, try to understand everything that you're doing. I tell my students, understanding it's like taking an engine apart and then putting it together exactly the same way.

It can't be any little pieces left over here. You know, you might leave some pieces over here. They might crank, and then you ride down the street, boom, it just blows up. Yeah. So you got to have all of those little, you know, dots connected if you want to be great. And for me, I was never really the best wrestler. I tell people that all the time.

I was never really the best wrestler, but to be smart, to be able to go out and think my way through the match and feel my way through it. And there again. Oh, we've got to stand if they're playing this. Just how big the men's, feel a certain. in a certain way. I think, you know, sometimes like young guys today, they

get in the ring and they work for themselves. And I was that way, you know, too, I guess, once upon a time. You could never think about working for yourself. Yeah. Or the spots are done for you. It's always for the fans. You know, and I just wish I had known that

in my old career, even though I learned most of that kind of stuff early, but some of the bumps I took, I definitely wouldn't have put myself in that position. I feel a certain way right now just because of taking certain bumps. And, you know, that's probably what I would tell these young guys today, more than anything, is the bumps they're taking, I'm 58. You know, I feel, you know, relatively, you know, really, really good.

It looked great. But those bumps, they're going to feel those bumps, you know, in their later years. And I know they're having fun right now. And I don't know they may look at me and go, ah, you know, he's old. He doesn't know what he's talking about. But those bumps, man, everybody got a bump card. I just had Vince Rousseau on the show. I had Vince Rousseau.

You hate him? Yeah. He had very nice things to say about you. He said that one of his proudest things was being able to make you the champion in WCW. I'll just play it. I don't hate him. He's like, I don't know. After you say that, I don't have him to Rousseau.

He's a good guy. No, man, that's one of the good things he did. We'll leave it at that. No, no. No, I think Ms. Rousseau more than anything, anybody, perhaps. No, seriously. No, no, they're two different sizes of the coin. Too brilliant. But I think Ms. Rousseau more than just about anyone outside of Eric Bischoff and WCW throughout my whole run. Just because he had the balls to, you know, beat the one to pull the trigger and say, this guy should be the champion. And the thing is,

without Vince Rousseau being in that room, honestly, they could have taken a vote, and it could have been a 12-person, unanimous vote, that I should win the championship. Without Vince Rousseau being in the room, they would have gave it to someone else.

That's why I give them that much credit. So you don't hate Vince Rousseau? No, I don't hate him. I'm just playing. I'm just playing. He's done some things lately that make me question them, though, that I have to talk to them about. And for me, I don't like, you know, talking on the Internet, you know,

and stuff like that. I like talking to them and let someone know if I got a problem with. And they might need to check what you and get with, you know, edit. You know, because... Leave this in, for sure. Things have been questionable. Just two more questions. Anytime we have a Hall of Fame or on here.

Oh, that was... What is the inscription on each of your rings? Nothing, just Booker T. On both of them? Yeah. Because I know you can put whatever you want on the inside of them. Okay. I didn't try to be fancy, just Booker Tee.

Okay. I know who I am. I'm one of the greatest that ever did it. And a lot of people may not want to give me my props, but I give myself props because it's hard to make it in this business. It really is. It's hard to make it in the wrestling business to the level that I made it. Yeah.

And I didn't slip on a banana peel and make it, you know, as far as I did, you know, creating what we're creating here, reality of wrestling, being a promoter in this bitch just trying to create the future for a lot of these young guys. You know, I know this bitch just like the back of my hand. This is something that I know. This is my trade. I didn't finish high school. I found myself, you know, locked up in prison, you know, when I was a young man. I had to pretty much teach myself how to, you know, find my way through this life. And then I married a smart wife who can do the rest of it.

You know, so. But, no, life is humbly. Gratitude's such an important part of my life. So I end every conversation asking my guests, What are three things that you're grateful for as we sit here right now? Oh, man, my wife, my kids, my health. I love it. It's very simple, you know.

It's very simple. You know, I'm a humble man. I'm a simple man. I don't need much at all. And like I say, as long as I got my health and I got my legs, I could work. That's the one thing I have taught myself, you know, since I was a young man. As long as I got my legs and my health, I can work. I'll get the job done.

I'll make the money as long as I don't need anything else. I'm not going to ask. I'm not going to ask for anything. That's all I need. Does I mean we'll see you in the Rumble again? No, no, no. You won't see me in the Rumble. That was pretty cool to go from like pre-show to like, oh, my, it is.

He's in the Royal Rumble. I love that job, man. I love that job. Being a part of this wrestling business is such an addictive world. and for me to have been a part of it for 31 years now, that's pretty much, that's really amazing and to still be in it and to still be relevant. And I say sometimes it takes other people to keep you relevant, you know,

so you got to know how to make people feel a certain way, like Bad Bunny writing a song about me, you know, so I go places. So for me, life has been a bowl of cherries, man. I'm serious, and I love every minute of it, and I want everybody to be able to share and understand that life. Life is not guaranteed tomorrow, you know, so make sure you smile every day. What a great way to end it. Such a pleasure to chat with you.

As always, so glad we could do it in person this time. Heck yeah, man. All right, what a guy. So good to have Booker T in the house. So great to be a guest at Reality of Wrestling. Go check out their YouTube channel. They've got, I think, almost 700,000 subscribers for Reality of Wrestling. Go to reality of wrestling.com.

You can check them out there. And I don't know about you. I was a little shocked. I thought for sure that Booker T's favorite catchphrase was going to be something to do with like, can you dig it, sucka, just sucka in general. But it's, tell me he didn't just say that. I mean, hard to argue with that.

He's got so many good ones. Please snap a screenshot just to let us know that you're listening and tag us so we can share it as well. He is at Booker T5.X. I'm at Chris Van Vlead. I hope you've been enjoying these episodes. we've got an Ask CVV episode tomorrow. So you've got a question and you want it to be answered here on the show.

Just send me a tweet using the hashtag AskCV. And we'll get to as many of them as we can. If you don't use Twitter, send me a message on Instagram or Facebook. Ask CVV as tomorrow's episode, but I'll leave you with these words from Thomas Edison. And I think that this is just so pertinent. This one rattles around in my head quite a bit. Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how. how close they were to success when they gave up.

Be great, be grateful. We will see you tomorrow for Ask CVV and some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock?

I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley.

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