Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Brian Myers On WWE Losing Streak, TNA, Training The Rock, MJF

Episode Date: May 28, 2026

Brian Myers (@Myers_Wrestling) is a professional wrestler signed with TNA and previously competed in WWE as Curt Hawkins. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis, IN to discuss being a veteran in the TNA locker room, wanting to become the TNA World Champion, his WWE losing streak and why he didn't want it to end, the origin of the name Curt Hawkins, having his own wrestling school that trained MJF, his short-lived stripper gimmick in WWE, training The Rock for his in-ring return, the best person he has been in the ring with, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Great to be seen. You're the first person to ever be on the show. We're in gear. I was going to ask you that. Am I breaking records here? You are. I've interviewed people like, you know,

quick backstage stuff, but to actually sit down and be on the podcast? My gear is quite complicated, so I figured you get the best of me if I know I'm got this ready to go and I can just go. Like complicated to put on?

Yeah, it's like a what do you mean? Well, it's like, I have a singlet, then the pan, there's several socks, knee pads. Kne pads under, yeah.

Yeah, which is great because it keeps nice and tight my knees. So you got to match basically when we're done this. Yeah, I'll have a little hour window maybe to warm up and talk about it and get it done yet. Who are you working with? Takamishinoko, if you can believe that or not. That's amazing. My good friend, crazy Steve, and actually a guy I've never met before that I'll meet in a couple minutes. Well, I've never met Taka before either, so we'll see how this all goes. This is the best thing about wrestling. It's what I've been doing for 22 years. It's just kind of, just go with the flow.

Like if we break the fourth wall here, it's about six o'clock. Yeah. The show starts it's at eight o'clock. And I'm on second. So I got like a little... And you haven't talked to the people and you're in the matchments. Excellent. Yeah.

And we'll find out. Figure it out. Sometimes the best stuff comes from that. Yeah? I think people, you know, you see at a TV, like they're all day talking about something for 10 hours. And they've almost overanalyzed it

instead of just letting it naturally kind of flow. Do you like to call it in the ring? Do you like to figure out? Things that I can, yes. I do think the business has evolved where you're kind of like short-changing the fans at this point, like the whole, we called it in the ring brother.

Like, okay, what did you do? Headlocks and boring as shit. Like, the business is evolved for sure. Like, you got to put some stuff together to have a little excitement. What do you think is the biggest difference from when you got into it, to where we are right now?

It's not stuff like that. It's more like, I don't know. I don't sound like an old guy, but like lack of respect. Really? Stuff, like the go-getterness and that kind of stuff is kind of, is few and far between.

It's kind of bizarre to me. Someone else pointed out that, like, there were rock stars in, like, the 90s. Right. Everyone was partying. Yeah. And now it's like, as soon as the show's done, it's like, it's recovery and it's rest. Which, that works good. That exists in every other sport now.

Right. I mean, whatever you want to call it, was going around this week of Brock being the same age right now to go wrestle Oba that Hogan was when he wrestled the rock. Yeah. Like, that just goes to show you how people are, like, taking better care of themselves, you know, in life in general, right? So that's a good thing. Where does the balance for you come with, it's wrestling, it's the podcast, it's the figure company, and it's create a pro. I don't know.

And being a parent, you know, that stuff. Yeah, that's my biggest motivator, obviously, you know, being a husband and a parent, like, you know, that's what's ultimately important to me. And all those things you mentioned just make me a better version of myself, you know, when I'm focused and determined. What do you think the percentage breaks? down is of all your call them jobs it's it's a day-to-day thing you know some days you know collect major there's a drama and something's got to go nuts and I haven't even thought about creative pro and then some days there's a creator pro fire I got to put out that it's all day with that you know it's it's a balancing act you know and then how often do you wrestling a lot

I've gotten to the point where like obviously TNA keeps me very busy and one of the things I love about TNA is the schedule and then I just have relationships with so many promoters and friends of, you know, people like me, like, you know, Hornswoggle runs their company, like I run a company. It's like, I don't want to miss his big show every year and things like that. You know, it's like, I have these established relationships where I don't want to tell people know where I also don't have to seek, like, a random indie booking where I don't know where I'm going or who it is and things like that. So it's a great place to be. Do you have certain days where it's like, all right, the podcast is this day every week?

Yeah. Creative Pro, pro, your wrestling school is this day or these days every week. I mean, we schedule permitting and also it's not just my schedule. We're going off Mac Cardona's schedule, we're going off SmartMark's schedule, we're going off Michael Kaddick's schedule, like all these people I work with. If it's no hiccups, Monday is the major pod day. Wednesday, I train every creator pro, which means me, like, in the ring, training, training, not just like standing the outside, pointing and doing nothing, like in there, like banging and sweating with these guys. And that's the normal week. And then a TNA travel day, could be Thursday, it could be Wednesday, you know. So I'm off, off and running. You got a lot

going on. Yeah, and I love, I mean, it's all, I'm so madly in love with pro wrestling, and I have been since I was five years old that, like, it's a lot of work, but sometimes it doesn't feel I work at all because I'm so passionate about it. Was there a specific match when you were five for a moment? No, I always tell people, my brother from a mom and pop, well, you know, VHS video store brought home wrestling at six in the cover, just like Hogan and War, it was just, like, larger than life to me, and I just, like, was all in. And that was the first show I ever I remember seeing, and obviously it wasn't live because we had the tape. And then Undertaker's debut was the first thing.

I remember being psyched about live, and then I saw that live, like, watched it. At what point did you think this is something I could actually do? Because every kid, or a lot of kids grow up dreaming of being a pro wrestler, not every kid puts the work in to actually make it happen. Yeah, I think I was like, delusionally optimistic. I always thought, like, why can't, you know, I don't know. I never had the doubt. I think that's one of the things that's helped me get to this point. for some reason I had that confidence.

I was the love of my parents or just, I don't know. I just like, I always thought I could do it. And what age did you seek out of wrestling school? So I was, I'm still am, such a wrestling nerd. I read something like an interview with Brett Hart where he said, like, don't backyard wrestle and apply yourself to sports in school until you are of age. So I knew like I couldn't do anything until I was 18. I took that advice to heart.

So football, wrestling, baseball straight through in high school and all throughout, you know, growing up. And then as soon as I turned 18, I just went after him, you know. And also in New York, when I'm from, you can't wrestle unless you're 18. So it was kind of that thing to keep me, you know, grounded a little bit. It was the first wrestler you ever met. You know, it's funny. I've been thinking about this lately.

Like, so I used when I was growing up, I'd go to these shows called USA Pro Wrestling. It was my first introduction to independent pro wrestling. And that was like this gateway drug to like, you know, just from them being on TV to like, these guys are as close as we are right now and I'm asking questions I'm going up to them and I was like nuts and like the ones that stick out to me

are for sure Chris Candido who is my favorite wrestler of all time you know he was just so accessible and they were to ask him questions and he was there at these shows you know these little shows signing you know whatever Simon Diamond was one of the guys would take the time and talk to me

and then a guy that like I and I was oddly catching up with him this week and I was telling him like Matt Stryker is from my area and he just like was trying the most. It felt like me, he looked like a star,

he had trunks, you know, and he would take the time and talk to me and always kind of give me advice too. And I was like, almost like invested in his career too. Like, I was rooting for him to, you know,

become something because I saw him at the start. Well, now the WrestleMania has done. All eyes are on the biggest party of the summer, Summer Slam. And I want to shout out our sponsor for today, Seekek. With over 35 million downloads, Seek is the number one rated ticketing app.

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You've got to think about that every time you're at a convention like this. We're at Squared Circle Expo in Indianapolis right now. Yep. You've got all these people of all different ages coming up to you. It might be an interaction with you that turns them into a pro-Russ. You really never know, right? Yeah. You never know.

That's a crazy thing to think about. I know. It's like you growing up having these interactions, turns you into the guy who continues to chase after it, the guy who signs with WWE, signs with TNA. Right. Just, it wrestling is one of those things. Like everyone's story's different. Yeah.

You know, and you find your way. Yeah. And you've done it. Like, you've done everything. I'm very proud of my crib. You know, if it was over tomorrow, I cry like a baby, but, you know, I'm very proud of, like, what I've been able to do. And beyond, like, me, it's, like, more.

like the relationships I've made and things like that, you know, that's, that's more important to me. Now that you're in your 40s, do you think about how long you want to do this? Like, more than ever. Yeah, it's crazy. How much it's been since turning 40. I'll be 41 in a month. Like, 420. I know. Yeah. That's my birthday, guys. It wasn't a weed reference for those following along. Yeah, ever since I turned 40, it just feels like, I'm like, oh man, you know, the old, I always say, father time's undefeated, you know, in my life. like an injury could stop me and it's like I just want to be the best version of myself and like whatever that takes you know like we talked about Brock earlier just taking care of yourself and

you know staying healthy and just because like doing this is such a privilege to me and like I said when I had my last match I'm going to cry like a baby because I just love it so much it's been such a part of my life that's been doing it more than not you know at this point so I think about it constantly but then there's people that are real like motivations to me you know like Edge and Christian and Chris Jericho, you know, that I see them still doing at a high level, and they're much older than me. I'm like, okay, shit, if they're doing it, I'm going. You know, even guys like Frank Exerian and Eric Young at work, like, they are in the best shape

of their life, still having incredible matches, and they're a little bit older me, and I'm like, okay, like, they keep me motivated to, you know, stay on the ball. But then your good friend, Dango retired recently. Right. And he's around your age. Everyone's story is different, like I said, you know. And I said this actually to all of the locker room when we were talking about and we kind of gave him his flowers. I said, you know, it's cool that he made this conscious decision and were able to celebrate him, you know, instead of like most guys get hurt and they never realize it's their last match.

You don't even know, you know. So it's cool that he had that ability, I think. Yeah, when you get to write your own story. That's great. Whether it's him or it's recently AJ Stiles or John Sina, that's way better than you get injured. you try to find a way back, and then it just never happens. The Holkogen's last match was a live event in the UK for TNA,

and people don't even know that. Triple H's last match was a live event tag team match in Japan. I was on that tour, yes. Oh! Yeah. And I'm sure he had no idea that was his last match. Right, right? Yeah.

So it's a privilege. It's cool. And you're still doing it at such a high level. Right. And then I can also say this. If I wasn't, I've said this to my colleagues, Like, if, and we all say to each other, like, if it's not still good, you got to be honest with me and I'll take a step back anyway. You know what I mean?

You know, I don't want to be that guy. Who can be those people for you in the TNA locker room? Oh, dango, Eddie. We're, you know, moose. We're very honest with each other. I think that's why we're such good friends, you know. At what point do you feel like you became, like, the veteran? Like, you are very much the veteran in TNA, like, the locker room guy.

Yeah, I don't, I don't know. It depends on how, like, you know, sometimes I feel like people don't even see me like that way. They don't go out of the way to ask me for advice or things like that. Not always, you know. So it depends on how you visualize me. Some people are so young, they see me as like, oh, the losing street guy, and they don't even think my opinion's worth a damn, you know? So it's just, it is what it is.

Would people not find value in the fact that you had a storyline with that much depth? If they can't take a step back and see the entertainment value that that provided, then, yeah, I guess not. I thought it was so interesting. I've heard you talk about the fact that you didn't want your losing street to end. Oh yeah, I had a fight. Did not end it, yeah. At what point was it going to end?

I was going to beat Heath Slater on main event. Because Vince was like, we were in Brooklyn, and Vince was just like, oh, it's Hawkins' hometown, let's give him one. And when the writer came out of the meeting to tell me, and I was like, oh, I was like, no, that's terrible idea. Like, what's not? How many losses did you have at this point? It had to be like 100 something at this point.

So, because 100s, when the article came out when that's when I, like, embraced it. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool. Let's like, see what comes to this. So I was like, beating Heath, like, no offense. Like, it's going to be forgotten by tomorrow, like by everyone. You know, I was like, let's see where this goes, you know, which I'm sure a lot of people in WWE don't politic to lose, but I was really trying, yeah.

When you were at that point of the losing streak, did you have a vision for where, when this might possibly end? I tried to not even think about it because I think it would drive myself nuts. It was more productive to come into work and be like, what's your finish? Great, I can't wait to take it. the best I can't, you know, that was instead of thinking like,

oh, maybe I'm gonna roll Braun-Stromen up today. Like, I didn't want to, like, I'd drive myself nuts doing that every day, you know what I mean? But think about the fact that you can embrace that, because you and I could sit here and name a dozen people who went on losing streaks because it wasn't their decision. Right, totally, yeah. And, like, I think a lot of people point to some of stuff

Dolf Ziegler did in WWE, where it's like, this guy keeps losing? Like, we know he's so good. But having awesome performances at the same time. Right, amazing matches, making everybody look like a million and then the end one two three loses wrestling's a two-way street you know like you're only as good as i'm making you look you know if i don't do that what do we have you know yeah yeah at what point did the idea to win at russomania 35 come about oh i'm i'm convinced so this is a weird story

i get maybe now they might do this now is what i heard but i'm so far removed i don't know but we came into work the tv before the go-home tv and they said you're said something of they said something about they wanted to approve wrestlemania gear and what people were wearing which they had never asked anyone for anything ever as long as I'd been there I was like okay and I was really excited because my gear guy had just sent me this New York Jets gear that I was excited to wear assuming I was going to be anonymous guy in the Andre Voward I'm like I'll be in this all green people at least be able to spot me at MetLife and the fellow jet fans will

get a kick out of that so I had it I just had the email and I'll be it all mocked up so I thought it was cool so I just fired it over to uh Mark Krono, whoever in the office, asked to see it. And like, we're walking out of the office, bro. She's like, that's a bad idea. You shouldn't have done that. I was like, I'm like,

they don't care what I'm wearing, like a dandre. Like, this is for like, Seth and the people. Like, this is just protocol. So then we come in the next week. And then he's like, oh, Vince didn't approve of your gear. You can't wear it. The rest of me.

I'm like, who gives this shit? I'm like, what? So, side note, at that point, Matt and I, we wanted to pitch something losing streak stuff, at least to be in the end of the Andre to think that maybe I could end the streak in this thing. And we had also gotten win that that year, the S&L guys were involved

in it and it kind of wasn't going to happen. But we were like, let's, we wanted to go talk to Vince anyway and show face. But now I'm all mad about my gear and stuff. And I'm like, I got to like say something. So like, we caught him, gave a very half-hearted speech about, hey, and Andre, maybe this or that, you know, this or that, you know, and he was like, well, we have other plans for that, blah, blah, and then he's like, anything else? I said, yeah, actually, I said, you didn't approve my rest of me any year? He goes, no. And I'm like, I'm like, what's going on?

I said, do you know the significance of it? He goes, why do you guess? The New York Jets? And I'm first time, I'm shocked that he got me on that. Yeah. And then, like, I don't know if it just, like, re-fired me up. And I'm like, yeah, I'm WB's biggest underdog and the NFL's big underdog stadium and a hometown guy.

And it means something to me. And he goes, oh, God damn it, Hawkins just wears a gear. And I go, yeah. And I'm like, Broskees standing there watching this whole thing, like, what the fuck is happening? And like, we both just kind of like this weird fireup embrace. But I was happy because I'm like, no one's going to make Kerr Hawkins gear on 10 days notice. Like I'm too low in the tournament ball. So I was fired up.

But I'm convinced whatever happened in that talk got his wheel spinning. And he just made that match with a revival in us. Like, I think revival in them might have said, hey, like, I think they might have went to Vince and said with a tag chance we'd like to be represented on the show. Yeah. And it was like twofold and it all just in days. I mean. So the win for you up to that point was you got to wear the gear. That was I literally was like I'm going to have to wear old gear at mania.

That's not like what a star does. Like that sucks. Yeah. That was really what I was fighting for. So I know all just kind of. And then that's like, the fact of I was saying, that's why I would never try to imagine how it would end. Yeah.

And it ended bigger than my wildest dreams. You know, I win the tag team titles in my hometown with my best friends. and business partner in front of my wife and kid. Like, it was surreal. It's still surreal when I look back on it, actually. That's an amazing WrestleMania moment. Right. Yeah, that's another thing.

Like, if it's all in tomorrow, I have these things. I can kind of be like, okay, I did something that, like, the hope people remember. Did you have a WrestleMania moment up to that point? I mean, that was another thing, Matt and I were very spoiled. That first one, we ran in the main event of WrestleMania 24 and attempted to attack the undertaker, you know, when he's, you know, and we're, I think we were 22 years old.

It's a wild way to like start, you know, and then you come down and the next year, like, Matt says it all the time. He's like just assuming like, oh, well, we'll probably have a three way with Edge next year and we'll be like, you know, who's breaking up and stuff. But we were like anonymous lumberjacks or something on the pre-show. So it didn't really turn out like that. Another great testament for how the wrestling business is. Exactly.

It's ups and downs. It's the roller coaster, yeah. But think about that. WrestleMania 24 is your WrestleMania debut in this incredible, incredible match with Undertaker and Edge. What was the conversation like backstage with Undertaker and Edge as you're putting this together? So that you actually have like a rehearsal during the week, which was really cool. And like, Taker was always so cool, you know, and how much we learned from like we worked.

I worked in more times than I can remember, you know, or did things with him. Kind of crazy. And then I always say like obviously Adam, especially at that point, in my opinion, my heart of hearts. In 2008, he's the best wrestler in the world. and Matt and I as 22-year-old idiot kids got to learn from him in the best seat in the house, you know, ringside every night. Like it was like this, people don't get that opportunity in the business to learn like that. And that fast track, working with the top producers, you know, Fit Finley and Arndanders and everything we do.

You know, it was just like it was surreal. And even that, like, you know, we have the meeting. I remember it was Adam, Taker, Michael A's, me and Matt. And we put these things together. And then like, we feel comfortable enough to like, well, we could do this. And we pitched this spot and take her, oh, you know, it was unbelievable. Was there something specific that Edge did at that young age that you're watching going, oh, I never thought about doing it like that.

It was just everything. It was everything because he's the champion. You know, he's representing the company. He has that responsibility. You see, like, that's a big deal, you know? I mean, like, people think titles are fake, but they're not because this mega company is entrusting you in that position to represent. You know what I mean?

And he, back then, live events, you know what I mean? three nights a week, he's having a main event and a live event, doing the drives, then going to TV, promos, and pre-tapes, and a mat, you know, it's a grind and to be on top and stay healthy and be an awesome performer on top of all that. I mean, it's, it was a surreal learning experience.

It's changed my whole life and career. Who were you traveling with at that time? A mish-mush. That's where the swoggle friendship began. Very early on, we befriended CM Punk. because of the free, like when you start, you get the free car for 90 days, I'm sure guys have told you. So people kind of see that and they kind of go,

oh, hey, man, where are you guys going this weekend? You know, and they hop in, but sometimes those are blessing in disguise, you know, so we rode with punk for years, you know, Swagel, Kofi, Jesse and Festus. We had a big run with them. It's so fun. Man. Yeah.

Is there something you learn in those conversations with CM Punk? You know, we all were like, so, you know, now it's hard to think because he's like, almost just like legendary performer. but back then he was trying to figure it out too and swim with these sharks that was ECW CM Punk right yeah you know so it was cool it was just cool to uh watch that rise a lot of times you know and root for him like you know i remember when he won these every tie like that was like back then that was like a long time coming that he like you almost didn't think he was going to get it you know yeah riding together being so happy for him about things

like that if we take it back just a little bit before that do you remember the day you found out you were going to get signed to w w yeah we uh man this is weird wdbdbddddddd had these weird like tryouts I don't know if they've ever done this before since they were like before live events and you had applied to him so I want to say Mike you were back we trained Matt and I said that maybe Dreamer said to apply to it just to like to do that so we applied to it and it was at the NASCAR call scene before a live event you know in our hometown and we go to it and just kind of weird and looking back on it now it was this guy Mason Rage that we came up with who had a couple matches me Matt Bobby Fish And, oh, and the ECW zombie, Tim Arson, who was like a local indie guy too. And then everyone else were like fitness models and athlete. We're the only ones who had like any kind of experience. And Matt and I are like, we're 20.

We have like our experience is like our 17 indie matches, not like real experience. And we had this like weird. It was bizarre. Like doing pushups and situps with like D. Malenko before the show. And we cut promos in front of Paul Heyman. And literally after Dreamer sat us all down was like, Bobby Fitch was the only one who even seemed remotely capable of doing this. Like, you know, he's only one who like even kind of shined was like, you know,

ready enough. And he gives us free tickets to the live event. And like it was what it was. So we just kind of like chalked it up as like an experience. And then a couple days later I was up at college in Springfield, Massachusetts. And Tommy called me. And now it's even more funny because he's like my wrestling dad. you know, one of my best friends, but like he doesn't get excited about anything and it doesn't

change in his influxed at his tones. Or he's like, hello, Brian, this is Tommy Dreamer. I would like to hire you. And it, like, it felt, I almost passed out. Like, it was like, it felt like not real. And I remember talking to him and I just, I put my head between my legs like, like, like, like, like, Kurt Hawkins vignettes. And it was in that position talking to him because I thought I was going to pass out or I don't know what was going on. And I just talking to him. And I remember the one thing I said to him, I said, what about Matt? And he goes, he's hired too.

And I was like, whoa. And I really think a lot of it, like, we just, what came about, I think is that we, like, had matching gear and we were young and they just threw us like a bone, I think, just to get something out of the tryout. Because obviously, probably fish didn't get signed way back then. And where did it go from there? Deep South wrestling, which we don't have enough time

to break all that down. Was it a good experience or not? It's like the time of my life, but some of the, I mean, whatever. It's almost like it's archaic how things have changed. From then to what we have now, the PC and the state of the art thing. And it was just so different. It's just such a different business model and concept of breaking it.

But I wouldn't change it for the world. This was mine and Matt's experience and this is what shaped us. But wow, very different. Did you already have your character developed? No, not at all. No clue. How'd you come up with Kurt Hawkins? Well, that was out of the edge thing.

their majors first. And that was, they didn't want Matt to be Matt, he was Brett Matthews. They made him Brett majors and I was Brian majors. They just wanted, that was that. They wanted us to be brothers. And then when we did the reveal with Edge, Vince thought we were real brothers apparently. And it came up in the meeting, unbeknownst to us. So like we debuted with Adam Armageddon. That was Sunday night, Raw. We don't go do because we're Smackdown Talent. This is Tuesday. So we show up Tuesday and they come out of the meeting like, you guys need new names. You need them now. We're like, and then there was, of course, like the WV cluster fuck shit. Like, I remember Johnny Yiske goes, no, you're with Edge now. So you need like cool names like Razor and

slash. And we're like, oh, okay. So we were like really brainstorm. We're like, oh shit, that's not what we're thinking. And then Michael Hayes, we see him later than day. He goes, that's not what he said. He wants to just have like real believable names. And we're like, okay, that's completely different. Because at one point, we were going to be. We're going to be. be ketis and cobane like for kirk cobbels and we're like we'll tie it in with edge would you be able to get away with that he's a rated arm you know kind of rock star like kind of like it was like and then we went and saw vince and we clarified he said no so just regular names and then kirk hawkins is from kurt heading when my favorite wrestled all time so was a little tribute and

i was a fake edge so i taylor hawkins i always looked like edge to me and i would tell adam that he's a big i always thought that too so that's what it is i remember as a kid being like why his edge in foo fighters. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense. Yep. A little wink in a knot. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg.

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I help people make the smartest money decisions possible. If you don't control your money, it controls you. Yeah, you're not in control of your finances. You have to look outside of yourself to live the life that you want. You're not in control. You're like, like, what is it that you actually want? Money should follow the dreams and goals because sometimes we make the dream and goal, the money, and you've overworked yourself, and you've exceeded what you've needed for the actual thing you want.

Sometimes we forget, like, what's the actual thing. usual thing you want. Afford anything. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. When you got released from WWE the first time, did you think there was any path for you to go back? Yes. One of the best days of my life.

Because I wasn't being, like, I was so young. They weren't using me for like, at that point, almost like a year and a half. Like, that's why I started the school because I just was like miserable. Like, they would not call me for like two months, three months at a time. you're not coming to raw and they're like it just wasn't comfortable plus when you love something

and you're not you're being paid to like not participate in it it's just like not a great feeling so I was thrilled like I got fired on Thursday I wrestled Friday Saturday on these shindies in New Jersey and I couldn't have been happier that said my goal was to get back and I did it you know two two years to the date I want to say it was what did that journey of getting back look like uh so it was a lot of hard work because, like, I made the big mistake of cutting my hair, and I thought, like, I was going to do stuff on TV. I never did. So now I'm, like, I'm fired. I'm unrecognizable. I'm basically starting from scratch. And back then, I had to take every book in that came my way. Like, you want me to sign autographs or the

flea market? Yep, I'll be there. Like, it was like, I couldn't say no to anything because, like, the money had to add up, you know what I mean, just to live my life. And it was just like a lot of hard work, but I made a lot of great relationships. That's how I met a lot of these people that, you know, I've thrown my good buddies now, you know, I got to, cold email from Julian, I can't even pronounce his last name who's Ethan Page and he booked me for his promotion and we've become like

really good friends, you know, and like things like these little silver linings and all these little moments. You know, I got to do PWG. I got to like go to WXW Germany, you know. I had a little TNA run in that time, you know. So global force, which was like, Global Force. I just saw Double J downstairs.

It's like to think that like he's like one of, you know, somebody that I see and we light up and give each other a hug is a really cool thing for me. You had a stripper gimmick in WWE. Cool. For how long? A week? On television a week.

Yeah. Behind the scenes, maybe close to two months plus. What's the story behind this? Tyler X and I were tagging. We basically tagged for a year straight, put over everyone on the roster, do what we were told, like, good soldiers. Having a good, but it was what it was. Join our spot.

We were active. We were doing live, you know, but nothing was coming of it. one day, I think it's like a money in the bank, like a pay-per-view, we have a squash with Ryeback, two-on-one handicad match on pay-per-view. We just do our job, you know, make him look like a million bucks. We get the banks and guerrilla. We, you know, nothing. The soleless wave, and we walk out of gorilla. And like, Hunter's like chasing us down. Like, hey, hey, hey, and we're like, he never talked us at this point or had given us any, you know, real advice at this point. We're like, what's going? And he's like, you guys are doing great and blah, but he's like,

you need something though. And he's like, I was thinking you kind of remind me like a couple of dick dancers. So I was like, what? He was, you know, like, I think, there's a lot of thought of this that made up in my mind as may or may not be true. I think Big Kev called him and told him about Magic Mike that it was going to take off. And maybe that it was around the same time. That's what I think kind of spawned it.

And I was like, okay. And at this point, like, we're working so hard. Like, I'm willing to do anything like to just advance a little bit. Like, because we've been in the same spot in the card. So I was like, cool. So they were all in. They set up like, it was, for me, I'm not, I cannot dance. Not a good dancer.

I'll admit that all day long, terrible. Tyler X was actually, like, phenomenal. They set up, like, he lived in California. I live in New York. They set up private, like, stripper. I had to go to, like, stripper class, like, on my off days and go learn how to, like, do that kind of stuff. And then we finally get to the day where we do it.

It was, like, you know, nerve-wracking. You know, we do it. Squash guys, I think, maybe I'm in with a promo. We do the strip teas, whole new thing. Come back to Gorilla, you know, Standing O' and Gorilla, the locker room, like, you know, because it's a big departure from what was going on. Yeah. A big shock.

And then we come to TV the next week. We check in with Corona's office like you would do back in the day. And he was like, Vince is obsessed with this. He goes, you guys are on every live event here on now, all the show. You know, he handed us our new calendars with, like, everything. I was like, oh, my God. This is great. like we did it you know and then uh it's his story to tell you know or gabby's story to tell

like he was there she was there all day we had a meeting with mtell i'll never forget like mtell did this presentation for us and then i someone said oh then the next this was a raw that we were randomly out like us but we weren't being used and the next day was smack then we were going to be firefighters so someone said hey hawkins go get the you have to go to the seamstress and and get the firefighter outfits off the prop truck and bring them to the seamstresses so they can make them tear away for tomorrow. I'm like, okay. So I'm like, Rex, let's go take this walk. And we go get him. He goes, I got to tell you something. Man, I go, wait. He goes, I quit. And I'm just like, what? He goes, yeah, I came in this morning and I quit. And that's, like I said, his story

to tell, you know, Gabby's story to tell, you know, another woman I'm sure will be very fascinating. But I'm just going into like Brian Myers survival mode. I'm going, oh, shit. Like, this was, life altering, like, what are we going to do? Yeah. And I'm literally thinking, oh, my God, Johnny Curtis, Pandango is one of my best friends. He's doing dark matches. He's doing nothing. I said, I'll just replace him.

I ran and found Hunter and he goes, yeah, I know, I don't know what we're going to do. I said, just give me Johnny Curtis. Oh, it'll be fine. Like, we only did one week. Like, nobody even know. Like, that happens to wrestling all the time. You know, we'll just run with it. And then that weekend, they booked me on live events.

And I blew my knee out and I was done for four months. But that weird little pitch. spawn Fandango when, yeah. Wow. It's a wild story, yeah. Where do you think this would have gone if you did? I don't know. I thought at that time,

because I think like truth and Kofi were the tag champs, I think we're being like set up to like, to win the titles and stuff. Wow. And you know, I mean, I'm not, I don't sound nuts if you think like, man, Vince loves dancing gimmicks. Everybody knows that.

That's a proven, you know. Vince just loves to dance. Right. So many videos of Vince dance. Formula. I was like, oh, man, we're set up here to like, at least do something really fun and be part of the shows, yeah. And then, like you said, look at the success of Fondongo.

Fondongo. One of my best friends this day, and I couldn't be more, you know, he got to wrestle, Christchagra, WrestleMania, you know, all amazing things he did with that. So. That were after WrestleMania, WrestleMania 29. Yeah. That was dango mania.

Yeah, totally, yeah. That's Nick Cashin, too, right? Yes. Yeah, that's like. That's right. I always said the Hardee's return at Mania and Nick's Cashin, I think of the two loudest pops I've ever heard at a show. Really?

In my opinion, in my career, yeah. I always say this, that the Hardy's returning at WrestleMania 33 would have been even louder if that stadium had a roof. I mean, that would have been like earth-shattering, right? Yeah, who knows? Seriously. That one, that one's the best just because that ramp was so epic and that shot of them coming.

That one was also so epic because they wrestled a ladder match the night before for Ring of Honor. Just kayfabing everybody. Yeah, so cool. Like they've, they rule. They've saved TNA wrestling and just, you know, I mean, they're the best. So I'm so privileged to work with them as much as I do, man. They just, they just rule.

Yeah, they're awesome. They really are the goats, you know, like they say they are. How did you become the guy that the Rock trusted to train when he came back? I think Hunter and Johnny handpicked me and Joe Henning for that. So this is before Rock came back for Rock Sina 1, wrestling. Right, he hosted the mania and he was like a round, but then you knew he was going to do that tag in the garden and they said he wanted to train johnny's called me on like a wednesday and i'm like oh getting fired you know i was like this is it and they were like please hold for joe henning and i'm

like what fuck is going i was the weirdest i actually was on the train going into which would become my wife like one of our first dates so i was like what though i was all working like what is happening and then johnny's like yeah rock wants a train and we picked you guys and it was it was an unbelievable experience because like obviously dwayne's schedule is something else and we were like his personal little you know crash test dummies and like you just never knew like a couple times i flew to miami in the morning train with him in miami and then flew out of my i'm like my commute was miami back in one day were you training in his house no they would set up a w w b ring wherever he was filming whatever in all these different spots we did in new orleans we did in miami yeah sometimes sometimes

One time he couldn't make it, and, like, me and Joe Henning had, like, a honeymoon on Bourbon Street. Because they got us there. We were supposed to be there for, like, the weekend. And they were, like, that was not going to fly, like, your flight or, like, maybe TV was, like, a drive. So they were, like, just stay. And they paid for this beautiful hotel on Bourbon Street, me and Joe, and we just went out every night. It was, like, it was unbelievable. Yeah.

But he couldn't have been cooler, man. He's one of those people, like, I was around him, and you're like, this is why this guy's so successful. You just see it. You just see it in him. Like the way he treats people? The way he treats people? The way he carried himself? the things he cared about, you know, I just saw it.

It was really, really cool. I saw him at the premiere for Smasher Machine at the after party. And he was being mobbed by, and this was like invite only. So he's being mobbed by all of like everyone that wants to have a moment with him. Totally. And he was so present that he was like, he was looking directly at you. It was your moment, whether it was 30 seconds, five minutes. Yeah.

That was it. Even though there were 100 other people around trying to get his attention. He was locked into this moment. Like I said, you just see the success. Yeah, where it came from. Yeah, it was amazing. My first takeaway when, like, working on him was really blew my mind was, he would, like, call spots, but then, like, call the pop that he was going to get

from doing said thing. Oh, wow. So he's like, oh, yeah, you know, this. And he's going, and he's measuring, like, how much time to take because he knows the people are going to be going apeship for him because he's so awesome. Man, cool. That's some brilliant self-awareness. Yeah, yeah, really cool.

So were you setting up the race? in like hotels? No, they would, some, like, a ref and, like, a ring crew would have it there and we would just show up. And then sometimes it would be like...

What kind of location, though? Like... In like a warehouse, whatever, and it was stocked with Fiji water. And it was, the whole thing was unbelievable. I mean, it was not... It was such a cool thing to be a part of.

Were you at a point where, like, you know, you're texting the rock? Oh, yeah. I'm sure it was like 27 phone numbers ago, but yeah, like, we, it was unbelievable, actually. One was the last time you saw him? When, you were at Staples or something when I was in WWW,

he was backstage and so yeah. And then he also, he tweeted me during the losing streak, and it was one of those moments that I think really helped, like put that on the map. Like him acknowledging that when I'm just like slub unraw trying to get this thing going and it really helps. Yeah. Thanks, Dwayne.

Do you think he'll have another match? I hope so. I mean, it feels that way. Yeah, it's just schedule permitting, right, at this point? Yeah. I guess. Yeah. It's a matter of him making the time to do it.

too. Yeah. I feel like it's one more match than he gets inducted in the Hall of Fame. And maybe it's WrestleMania 43 if they're going to pull out all the stops for that. Right. And then he gets inducted the next year. I don't know, but. I mean.

Seems like he'd want one more. And he still looks the part. Yeah. Absolutely. Right. Yeah, it'd be sick. When you talk about your journey to get back to WWE, what have you seen in Matt Cardona's journey to get back to WWE?

I mean the same, you know, the same goal. I was so happy for him. He was so focused on that that it finally, you know, turned a goal into a reality. That's a cool thing. It was about five years? Like more. I mean, really more, yeah.

So it was cool. Six years for him to get back? I mean, when the news broke, like, obviously I was in the know of what was going on. But once it became a public thing, I put a tweet out that go find it. It was just everything I wanted to say about this that like what he did has never been done before

and it should be studied and appreciated by workers of all ages and, you know, shaped in sizes and like, you know, it's the real deal. You know, it was a hell of an accomplishment. I remember him saying to me when he was on the show a few years ago and he's like, what more do I need to do? Right. Like, he's like, I keep winning indie wrestler

of the year and I shouldn't be the guy winning that. The former WWE guy shouldn't be winning that. No, and he just, he, we both have that thing of like with wrestling, you can't always do what you want to do, but you can control. The things you can control, you can control, and they matter, you know, looking like a star, you know, spending money to make money, that kind of mentality really goes a long way, you know,

and that's what he focused on and eventually paid off. So what was that moment when he told you, hey, man, I'm back in WWA? Not as heartwarming as it should have been because of all the business things that were involved that it's his story to tell. It all got worked out, but yeah, at first we were like, is that it? Like, you walk away from the pod, the toy company, you know, how's this going to work? But, you know, so it wasn't as comforting as it should have been for both of us, but it all got situated.

Yeah, and he gets to do that still. Yes. So that's amazing that he's. Again, so there he is, breaking ground again in another way, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are crushing it with collect major.

like I and you're you've changed the game too what has been the biggest thing that you guys have been able to do to really change things I mean we have the cheat code of you know 22 years of doing this and we have the Rolodex right so we don't have to

try so hard as other people that and the fact that you guys aren't just wrestling fans you're like your figure collectors right so it's like you get the business right yeah but it's just it's all about you know how passionate we are about it, you know, our ideas and just making things happen. And then the other side of it that's

been really cool is like seeing these guys, like it's something like today, like a convention where like, hacksaw and his wife light up to see me and Kanek. It's like, you know, the checks that we've given them and the mutual respect and relationship that, you know, that's a cool thing, too, to like give back to our heroes in a way that I didn't even really think about when it all started. You know, we're just trying to make cool toys. Do most of the legends get it when you approach them about doing this? No, it's a wild ride. Because you got to explain things that not everyone gets, you know, especially this modern era of collectibles that we're in, you know what I mean?

I don't know what's different about it. There's so much. Like even like, he's probably going to hate me for telling us, but bully, bully Ray was offered a Legends deal. And he's like, he tells me, should I sign this?

We're like, yes. Like what, you can't make Dudley anything. This is money from the sky. You can still be bully Ray. You can be bully Ray and do everything, bust it open,

all your things. and that's a whole other business. And then this is just a whole other revenue from another side. And then when you come to things like this, there's all these new items for you to sign and these new, you know, create new fans. Maybe some dad buys a Dudley figure

for the kid that didn't even know what the Dudleys were. You know, it's just like, I think it's just such a beautiful thing. Like, you got to embrace it, you know. Is Devon under a Legends deal? They both are now. Oh, they both. Yeah, they are.

But at that point, Devon was and Bubba wasn't? No, but Bubba was hesitant because he didn't get it. I mean, me, and every time Matt and I see him now, where like, you got another thank you for us, pal? Because you're in the video game now. You got another thank you for us? Because you got this badass ringside collectibles exclusive I just saw. You know, like, yeah.

Do you collect as much as Matt does? Yes, but his collection is more like, it's almost like a museum and just high-end things or like, mine's more like just sentimental to what I like, wrestling-wise, you know. Do you have a holy grail item? I have every single ECW original figure autograph. Wow.

Every single thing. And then I've been working on every single WWF Hasbro autographed, which nobody in the world has. Because there's ones I don't even think exist. Like, I don't think there's an autographed Ludwig Borga to be had. I don't think there's an autographed Giant Gonzalez to be had, but I'll look for it for the rest of my life. And a lot of these people that do have this stuff don't want to make it known because they don't want people hounding them with offers. So you never know. But it's fun for me to like try.

I'm only, I think I'm like 18 away, 17 away at like almost 100 Hasbro's. Okay. Yeah, it's pretty impressive. What was the toughest ECW one to get? Mike, awesome. Yeah, because he unfortunately passed in like 07. Yeah. The figure comes out in 2000.

It's not really a thing to get toys signed. You know, so you have to be really kind of ahead of the game to even think to do that if you met him. So how'd you get it? I can't remember how I actually have two now. I bought the second one out of FOMO just because it was available to me and I didn't want anyone else to have it. Like a psycho, yeah. So Matt and I are nuts, but that's proven, but, yeah.

Like, Matt seems to be collecting the things that are worth, like, or he at least has his eye on the things that are worth, like, tens of thousands of dollars. Right, yeah, that doesn't matter to me. You know what's the coolest thing for me now? The number one thing that excites me about wrestling figures when one of my students gets one. That's, and that's probably MJF's in the $5 been downstairs,

but that's still cool. It's still cool to me. How many of your students have figures? Chris Atlinder. Smart Mark Sterling is coming soon. MJF, obviously, Max Caster. So pretty cool. Yeah, that's great.

Do you remember the first time you met MJF when it came to your wrestling school? Yeah, I'll never forget it. It was very early on. It was the very early on. It was probably four months of Creative Pro. It's kind of funny because it's very similar mentality. Like he committed to something in college football, but he really had his heart set on wrestling,

and I think it kind of hit a wall with what he was doing and what his parents wanted to do and what he wanted to do. And I was in a very similar situation, you know, because when he tell people you want to be a wrestler, it's not really that believable, right? And his dad came in with him, and it almost felt like, here, he's your problem now. Like, this is what he wants to do.

And I was like, let's go. So pretty early on, we did a promo class where he just murdered this kid. And I was like, okay, and there's something about this guy. He'd been acting up to that point, right? Or had some acting skills? High school singing and plays maybe and things like that. But, like, obviously athletic.

He was playing football. He's a very, like, standout high school football player. He had a scholarship to play in college, and I think he bailed, like, the first two weeks when, like, school hadn't even started yet. Were you like, this is going to be my first? first, like, student who has real success?

Not back then, no, but eventually, like, it came, yeah, for sure. Because I even said this to him when he was on the show recently. I think that his in-ring ability is so underrated. It's wildly underrated, yeah. Because he's so good on the mic. Yes. And because he's so good on the mic... It gets ignored.

Right. He's a 10 out of 10 on the mic, people just like, oh, yeah. I think he can go with the best of them. Right. And both facets, so... Which is amazing. Right. Yeah, he's, man, he is...

He... He should be studied as for young guys too, like just doing everything that you're supposed to do to make it, you know. Getting in the car, making the drives, making the connections. You know what I mean? Max is a people person, right? So he gets your number, what's your number? And he stays on top of you for opportunities, you know, things that are go-getter does. He did all those things.

He checked all those boxes. When someone walks into your wrestling school now, what are you looking for in a successful student? How do you know someone's going to be successful? I have this thing where I kind of just know. I know if they're going to be around is what I know. Like they're not going to drop out. Yeah, but the, like, people got to realize, like, the dropout rate is like, Oh, the attrition's crazy.

It's nuts. It's probably 90-10. Like, who's going to just be around and who's, who does a month or a week? And it goes, you know. Hey, look. I went to wrestling school. I'm in that 90%. People think fake and they think, like, it takes no, I don't know, it's crazy.

The delusion that wrestling brings on is like, I'll never, I don't know, I'll never understand it. I think it's also like life happens. Like for me, it was like, do I focus on college? Oh, right. Focus on wrestling school. It's hard. It's so hard. Like I said, the sacrifice you have to make and the lack of finances you're going to generate at first, you know?

Yeah. It's a lot. So what is it that you can see in someone, whether they're serious or not? To me, it's just if they come. I always say, I said, we're like, you know, like, if you sign up to a gym and you don't show up and lift weights, you're not going to get jack. If you don't show up to this place and learn. Yeah. all the weird things about pro wrestling,

because it's an art form and it's very strange. You know, you pretend fighting, but you're doing stunts and you're trying to look real but not really hurt people. You know, there's a lot to it. So, but just showing up, you know, being present, you know, staying after, you know, do an open ring and picking people's brain, you know,

that's that separates people that I've noticed. It seems to be the difference between people who, like, want to do it and the people who are truly passionate about making it happen. Right. Just don't take no for an answer. Yeah, and like,

Whatever it takes to do it. Yeah. They're going to do it. And I think that's, there's no playbook for success in wrestling, but there's certainly those things you can control, like I said earlier. And you got to, you got to go for it. Do you want to have your wrestling school forever? Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's been such a passion project.

Like, it doesn't, I don't, I don't know, I don't mind even hit, like Pat Buck and I do not get rich off Grave, bro. I mean, we almost make no money. But, like, it's not this horny cash grab. It's this place where, you know, we just generate this amazing culture. You know, if you're a shit head or a bad person, we literally tell you like, hey, we don't, we don't want your money. Like, you can go.

You know, we just, it's just people who work hard and love professional wrestling and be a good person. That's all we ask. And that's how you stay and it's been a proven formula. No one's gotten rich off it, but I've made a lot of memories and a lot of friends. And it's cool. And like, I'm still selfish about it because I train there. And I think that's helped me. I need a place to work out and stay in ring shape.

So it goes both ways. Seems you've really found a home for yourself in TNA. The best. What's it been about the TNA environment that's worked so well for you? I think it's like my mentality about TNA has always been, you know, the grass is not always greener. It's greenest where you water it. And I just been watering the shit out of TNA for six years because I just, I think maybe that ECW fan in me, it makes me think it's like the little engine that could

and I root for the success of it you know and like the six years I've been there the little victories along the way and leading up to like you know this being on AMC which to me has been like the ultimate teenage victory I just I just like almost like a door work in there kind of thing you know I want it you know root for the underdog type of thing and it's just been such a blessing and I think

the harking back that we were talking about like I got fired the first time and it was two years of like gotta get back to there Bibi get it back there to me I haven't thought about that once. Not once. Because I'm so happy. Like I said, I just want, I want what's best for TNA. And that's important to me.

Do you want to get to a point where you're part of a storyline that leads to being a world champion in TNI? That's my ultimate goal. And pro wrestling is to be the TNA world champion. End the story. Yeah. I think that's the one thing I haven't done there. I've been given so many opportunities.

You know, I've really appreciated the amount of microphone time I've gotten that I've never got previously in my career, being in storylines and big pay-per-view matches, and I've done it all. I think that's the ultimate goal for me now there. I think it would make a lot of sense. I do, too. You've got a great story.

I don't write the show. Someone watching this might watch the show. I just show up and work hard, and so we'll see what happens. But it's been fun seeing the evolution. And I think, actually, if someone is just familiar with Brian Myers and TNA, and you showed them Kurt Hawkins, they're completely different characters. I appreciate Kurt Hawkins, but he's RIP to me. You know, I don't need to, like, rest on that.

You know what I mean? It was what it's, it's, I move. I want to evolve. I don't want to, like, sit back, you know, rest on things I've done, you know. I could have, and if I wanted to do that, I could have just, you know, got fired in, you know, in 2009 and did Indies and, like, my edge tights

and, you know, for the rest of my career. But it's just never been my mentality, man. I just want to upward and onward, you know. This episode is brought to you by Activia. You might already be eating yogurt, but not all yogurts are created equal. Activia contains over 1 billion probiotics per serving

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That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart with 100% of its, brands championing diversity with 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women. Diversity is a strength that helps Loreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit Loreal.com to learn more. When you got released though, it was part of the COVID release. So many of your friends and colleagues got released at that time, that must have been scary. Yeah, that one I, I still have a little sore spot because, like, no wrestling company fired anyone in that time,

but WWB, the most powerful, you know, richest one. I thought that was a little strange. And I just signed this contract. And I was, I was very blindsided by it. But, like, most things, like, it was just, like, the blessing in disguise. Like, who would have known? Like, you know, I mean, looking back on it, that last year was not so hot. You know, we won the tag titles, and then the moments we lost them, it was, like,

we weren't doing anything of. significance. The cool cheat code we had would Matt and I would show up, do what we're told, the best of our ability, and then we'd go record the podcast and have fun and forget about it and talk about toys. But, yeah, that first week, I want to say in that firing, Tommy Dreamer, my wrestling dad called me and said, what do you think

about impact or, I hadn't really, I was so blindside, I hadn't thought about anything. Like, what is Brian Myers now in wrestling? I had no idea. It was just one of those things that all worked out. Yeah. Were you watching TNA growing up? Oh, yeah. I'm still, I mean, that's one of the things that, I mean, at first meet Abyss, I'm like, yes, you know.

That's what I was, I had, I had, my dad had eventually got us to Hot Box for because he got sick of paying for paper views. So I, I really consumed everything. And I saw all those early, you know, asylum stuff. I mean, everything I saw. What do you think is like the golden era of TNA, before this point now? Yeah, it's, uh, obviously right now on AMC.

what's the biggest platform has ever been on. Man, that's tough to say. For me, my fandom is like the get on Fox Sports, like 2004 into 2005. I think Raven coming was such a big leap and things like that. And then Angle coming right after that. When Angle came, I'll never forget.

Matt and I, just because we love wrestling camaraderie, when we were in Deep South, we would invite the boys over and we would order the T&A pay-per-views. And that one, I remember that was like such a, you know, a bunch of wrestlers watched it in our apartment. And then that vignette played in everyone, oh, everyone like shoot marked out, like pop for it. I remember that was such a big turning point too, yeah.

And obviously the rise of AJ and how incredible he is, you know, things like that. Abyss is one of my guilty pledger. I love Abyss, man. He's so good. Yeah. But I think he's my favorite big man ever. Ever?

Yeah. To watch, like, my flavor of wrestling, like Abyss is my favorite. I feel like 05 to like when they got rid of the six sides. So like the Hogan Bischoff era. Like so it was what's that 05 to like 2011-ish? It was like man that's that's peak TN. Right. It was cool and fun to watch.

Yeah. And like for me the triple threat match on Breakable 2005. Oh so good. Yeah. Like Joe and Daniels and AJ. Another thing I love that like just getting those old stories from like Frankie and E. why at work and stuff if we're just hanging around after a show having a few that's like my favorite oh that's fun that's really cool we're always you know me and like john skiler we're

always like picking their brain on things like that like just hearing those stories it's pretty cool what was the first wrestling event you ever attended live uh a nassal coliseeam live event and i it was like i want to say it was like a birthday present for my brother and like my dad took us and i was so young i was like five or six i have like i can remember like songs like i can remember like Jimmy Snooka's theme music. Like I don't have like strong memories of it. And I remember a kid having a foam Legion of Doom pads and I really wanted and my dad been buying for me.

Like things like that. Yeah. Were you there as a fan for any like big moments, iconic moments? Yeah. I mean, a lot of stuff. Oh, that's great. Because in New York, you have the, you know, the luxury of the Coliseum and the garden. You know, and they're kind of, yeah.

So some of my favorites, though, came later, like, SummerSlam O2, Sean's return, which I like, Sean Michaels, I think is the best in-ring performer of all time. So that was, like, such a big thing. Isn't SummerSlamo 2 rock and Brock? Rock and Brock? Oh, what am I. The place is rock. And that opening match with Kurt Anglin and Ray Mysterio.

Yeah, which is like the greatest opening match of all time. Yeah, it's so good. And I was at the first chamber then that year, things like that. wrestling at 20 I went to by myself. I got one ticket and just went because I had just like started training and I was oh, I got to study this. Yeah. I took myself very seriously.

What an embarrassment of riches it is to grow up in New York City or around New York City? Yeah. Because you get like 10 wrestling shows. It's crazy. And like I said earlier, when I found indie wrestling, that was like a man. Because I wasn't just a WWF guy. Once I realized there was more, even though I was a kid, I was a toy store and I saw the WCW Gulu

Gouloub figures on the shelf. I'm like, what is it? And then it was like, another learning experience. You know, these light bulbs go off and I'm fine. I'm reading magazines going like, oh, wrestling in Mexico, you know, like, it just was all, I couldn't get enough.

And it didn't matter where I was getting it from. Who's the best person you've ever been in the ring with? Oh, I'm going to hate saying this. Oh, man. I hate saying this because he's going to see this. Or someone's going to tell him that I said this, but it's probably Christian. Yeah.

he was I just remember being in the ring with him like this guy's a lot better than me and that that hasn't come up you know it's more like I'm more of like oh fuck you I can be on your level but back when I wrestled him like for the first time like I think 2010 we have like a two seg match on superstars I'm just like shit this guy's a real deal I got to step my game up why are you going to hate that he hears this because he's such a prick I don't want to hear me say that but yeah yeah but he's awesome and I'll give uh Nick Nemith a a little he one B on that. Man, Nick Nemeth makes everybody look great. Yeah, and he's like, I think, underrated,

like hasn't got his flowers for it, I don't think enough. Isn't that crazy? Still. Yeah, I know, I don't think enough. Like,

he's like the most overrated, underrated guy. Yeah, everybody's in this weird. Everyone talks about him being underrated. Weird layer there, yeah.

Although that's funny, I think one or two podcasts to go with him, he's like, depending on who you ask, I'm either the most overrated or the most underrated. It's crazy.

It's like, whatever. You can't please, He's everybody. In wrestling, I've learned. I kind of, sometimes I just, I'm not even going to read my app mentions or whatever. Like, you know what I mean?

Don't ruin my night, you know. I love asking this question of anybody in TNA, and I will especially love asking this because you were a TNA fan growing up. Yep. What's your TNA amount Rushmore? Ooh, okay, AJ. Of course. Double J.

Double J. Kurt. And this is where it gets dicey. what can I say this? This will be maybe a controversial take. I think one of my best friends in the whole world, one day Eddie Edwards will be the fourth. I thought for sure you were going to put Abyss on there.

Not enough, like, top top stuff. Yeah. Top of the cards. And I think, again, Abyss is one of those guys that was so good at making other people look great. Yeah, too, dude. Oh, my God, unbelievable. Abyss elevated everybody else's storylines.

Right. Like, not to say he wasn't a great. great champ, but like... An Abyss put an over story, I just want to tell just because I love... Please! When I did that Global Force Teenade thing, like, whatever it was 10 plus years ago, I was used to, like, W&E style where producers are like, you come to the back, they're just like, thank you.

And that's like, you could do the worst job ever or the best job, and it's like the same thanks. It's like, they're just almost like glad it was over and they didn't get yelled at. T&A, I do my first match, Abyss is the producer. I come back, just, yeah, fuck yeah, guy. That was great. I'm like, this rules. Like, that's like the positive reinforcement that I've been looking for

for my whole, like, that's what I was. And I, you know, the little bit that I've produced, I try to, you know, it goes a long way, you know. So shout out to Abyss. I love that. Yeah. What are some of the TNA matches that you've been most proud of? There's so many that, like, people can look into.

Man, it's tough. I mean, there's been so much. I mean, bound up ultimately kind of being Chris Bay's last match. that wild, uh, ladder match with the Hardee's and ABC. That's probably my favorite. Um,

I had this crazy street fight with a big casp, uh, William Morrissey that I don't think enough people saw like, you know, it was really fun. And ultimately, I think what I'm most proud of is the system, like in general,

like the run we've been on the best. I was there for the big turn in Albuquerque. I know. I saw you. Yeah, you were interview me. Yeah. Yeah. I'll see in a few months.

Didn't, didn't beg. That's not true. You did. It's true. It might even be footage of it. No way. You're walking up the right. I don't give you the finger actually. You did that too. Oh no, it was Dangu that said interview. You get you, you, I think you said, uh, something that's not safe for television. Definitely not. Yeah. Yeah. Gave me the finger. Yeah. The turn was fun, though. Yeah. That's fun. I was Jones going to do that. Like, you know, so we knew that was going on for a long time. I was really excited. Well, I think people were like, they knew a turn was coming. I don't know if they knew what the elements of it would be. Yeah.

Yeah, who would it be? That's wrestling. That's entertainment, that's storytelling. That's like, that's what you live for, you know? The moves are secondary, you know, that's the excitement. Wrestling is what happens in between the moves. Exactly. It's so true.

That's very true. All right, I'm going to get you off to your match. Thank you for making this happen. I've got to go take a Mishinoku driver. Oh. That's my one ask tonight. I'm going to try to. Oh, man.

Come on. What an honor. Yeah. It'd be great. I know. I was hoping JBL was here because I wanted, he's hit me so many fucking times with his new stick where he comes from the crown like, you can hit me here and then join Taka. And then be JBL and Taka again.

They're a nice little reunion. But he's like, he's not at a convention for once. I don't know what that's going. That's true. Yeah. Especially this one. This convention's huge. I'll end this with the question I ask everybody.

And again, thank you for this. Congrats on all of your success. Thank you, man. Personally, professionally, all across the board. When you asked me, I was like, oh, didn't we just do this? And then I looked at it was six years ago. It was right when you got released. I know, I thought we had like, I don't know, time just flies, man.

You've done so much since then. what are three things you're grateful for as we sit here right now? I mean, obviously I listen to your show. I knew you're going to ask that. But, I mean, my reason for being is McKenzie, Madison, and Liz, my wife, my two kids. I'm just, they make my world go around. I mean, none of this happens without them, without them putting up with me, doing it and being away. And, you know, being the best of my abilities when I am, you know, giving them my all when I'm home and being present.

That's pretty much ultimately all I care about. But they really make my world go around. That's all it matters to me. They're all three spots. Yeah. One, two, three. Yeah, they're too important. I can't even really divvy it up amongst other things.

I love that. Yeah. Thanks again, man. Thank you, man. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up?

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