Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Bryan Danielson: Iconic Matches, YES Movement, Retirement, WrestleMania 30, Brie Bella

Episode Date: December 4, 2025

Bryan Danielson (@bryandanielson) is a professional wrestler and announcer currently signed to AEW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Houston, TX to discuss his new role on AEW commentary, if he has retired from the ring, why he left WWE to sign with AEW, the segment that got hijacked by fans, the YES Movement, losing to Sheamus in 18 seconds, winning in the main event of WrestleMania 30, if a Brie Bella return is possible, and more!    Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFFSTASH: Go to https://get.stash.com/INSIGHT to see how you can receive $25 towards your first stock purchase and to view important disclosures   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount   NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvvTry it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insight to get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVVand use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris. Well, great to see you. Yeah, good to see you as well. Thank you so much for making this happen. Yep, absolutely. Our last interview, I looked it up 2013. Oh, my goodness. It was the day after you won the championship

from Randy Orden and Night of Champions in Detroit. Okay. And I was working at the CBS TV station in Cleveland. And you came in and I was like, where's the title? And you're like, oh, I don't even have it yet. Yeah. Remember this? I don't.

So I remember the Night of Champions match. That's where the referee counted fast. and then they took the title away from me the next day. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was us on the local news. Yeah, that's amazing. That's so funny. Yeah.

How were you adjusting to life now in this new role on commentary? You know, it's been interesting because I wasn't anticipating being a commentator. So I was at home and then they asked me to come in because TAS was getting shoulder surgery and to come and do, you know, help out a little bit. Yeah. So the travel has been difficult for me. That's one of the things I didn't expect because I've traveled my entire adult life, right? It's no big deal. But with my neck as bad as it is, all of a sudden, you know, you take that, it was almost, gosh, it was like eight or nine months where I was only traveling maybe once a month. I'd go to the pay-per-views and all that kind of stuff.

But yeah, the weekly travel has been a lot and it's just been made sleeping hard and that sort of thing. Is it tough on your neck just sitting on the plane the whole time? Yeah, it's sitting on the plane. It's also just like lugging luggage around, right? So it's like, you know, I typically just have a carry on in a backpack or whatever it is. But then it's like, yeah, being uncomfortable in the chair. You know, I have like a now I've, you know, I've made some adjustments. So I have a cervical pillow now that I travel with me just because like, and for a while

I was just sleeping with like one of those hand towels underneath my neck, just so it's not being pushed up or anything like that. But it's impossible. I live on the West Coast, you know. And then I also live like an hour and a half to two hours from the airport. So it's like, so it's like, so it's impossible for all these cross-country flights to like stay in good posture the whole time and all that kind of stuff. And then heaven forbid I fall asleep and I do this and then I wake up and I'm like, oh, no. I can't feel my hand. And so it's like...

Or you do the thing everybody else does in the plane, which is look down at their phone. Oh, I don't do that. Not at all. No, not at all. You're not a phone guy? I avoid screen time as much as possible. So like if we opened up your phone right now,

what do you think your screen time would be? I don't know. It's higher on days where I'm traveling because I literally, I just FaceTime with my wife and kids, you know, and I do that a couple times. You know, when I'm traveling, it's more. It's like, I rented a car. because I got an early, so I wanted to go to Whole Foods. So then I have my maps up. And then for

whatever reason, my maps adds to my screen time. It has to stay open the whole time. I get it. Well, but it's on Apple CarPlay on the phone. So, you know, I, so I don't, I don't get it. I'm, I'm perplexed by my screen time. Sometimes there will be this thing where if I add up all the things, because I'm, for a while, I was almost obsessive about my screen time. It was like, okay, It has to be under an hour a day, complete under an hour a day. And then I look at my phone, it would be like one hour and 45 minutes. I was like, there's no way. I was on the phone for like 10 minutes today.

And it was like there were these times where the phone was just open and it was tracking it at screen time or something. I didn't understand. And it would show it as like a gray area. It would have like bright colors for like, okay, you spent 10 minutes or you spent three minutes on your email. You spent this amount of time on Safari. you spent this. And then

there was this large gray area. I'm like, what's that gray area? And it's just when your phone's just open. But you're not... And it's counting as screen time. It's counting as screen time. That's not fair. Yeah. But, yeah, so I get perplexed by the whole thing. But I try to keep my screen

time under an hour a day. I think it's, gosh, I could go into it, but it's like... So right outside where the gym is here, there's some... that tree, I don't think it's the same type of tree, but there's some beautiful trees. So I went outside and I walked and all this kind of stuff.

It's just like, man, there's so much like world to actually experience that's more than just like on this tiny. I don't mean how many even inches is that thing. It can't be more than three or four. Yeah. And yeah, I don't know. So it's like, hmm. What does preparation look like now on show day being a performer versus what you're doing on commentary? Oh, it's, yeah, it's, it's way different.

It's like, uh, from a performer perspective, it's like, I really just need to know what my match is, what they'd like for a finish, how much time you've got. And then, uh, and then it's like, okay, then, you know, you talk with your opponent or whatever it is. Then it's the physical preparation is, you know, I would take 30 to 45 minutes to warm up for a match, you know, especially. I learned that from Randy Orton. Randy Orton was the best guy at warming up in WWE. He would do all these things. And like if he had to do something on short notice, he'd get pissed. He's like, I don't have time to do my shoulder routine or whatever.

And, you know, because he, you know, just think of how many matches Randy's done. His entire career has been in WWE and during that time where they're doing tons of live events every year and all that kind of stuff. And so his body's been through a lot. And so he prepared it. And I would see it. And I would be like, I had my own like 10. 15 minute warm up. But then as I've got, as I got older, it became much more like, okay, I need 30 to 45 minutes to warm up. So yeah. But now from a commentator perspective, I tend to go

around, talk to people about their matches. I tend to be in Tony's office trying to understand what the, what the main story is that we're trying to tell throughout a match or whatever it is. And then, you know, and then I write, I write a bunch of notes. And this is the thing with most things. You write a bunch of notes. Most of them you don't ever use, right? But, you know, but there have been times where I've sat there and Excalibur asked me a question

and I just go like this. So I'm not, my brain's working. There was, oh my God. My first, so I found out I was doing full-time commentary while I was doing an immediate tour of Australia. I found out. It was like,

okay, starting this Wednesday. And I was like, oh, no, I have to get from Brisbane, Australia, all the way to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and then I have to do commentary and all this kind of stuff. And I was so jet-legged and tired. And when I got, when I, there were a couple times during that, you know, Taz, obviously TAS and Excalibur, you know, carried, carried the bulk of the thing. There was one time Excalibur asked me a question, and I just went like this. I didn't even say, uh. And then Excalibur just goes, well, TAS. So, but I mean, you know, it's, you know, it's been, it's been good and fun and it's, you know, commentary's a skill.

So it's like, it's something that you have to learn. And there's like, I've been really lucky and grateful to have like TAS and Excalibur. And then Tony, I, you know, I, I asked Tony Chivani to like, when he's not busy backstage and he's super busy, if he listens to it and say, can you give me some tips and this, this sort of. thing because, you know, it's not something that I'm naturally good at. And it must give you such an appreciation. I'm sure you already had this appreciation when you were in the ring, but commentators can really get someone over. Just by the way they're setting up the story.

Yeah. And one of the things, actually, William Regal was always big on this to me is he said, when you get a chance, go and talk to your commentators about if you have something specific that you want to do, because that was not. it's not you know the commentators have so much going on you don't even realize you know excalibur's out there doing ad reads he's doing he's like and you would understand right hitting commercial break time yeah hitting commercial break time all this kind of stuff and then you know and then setting up okay we're going backstage to uh the lovely rené piquette and all these sorts of different things

there's so much nuance to it right that it's like okay you're not going to catch every detail so if there's a detail that's important to you in your match, then go and tell your commentator about it. But I try to be proactive about it, and especially, you know, when we know the matches ahead of time or whatever, okay, go and talk to a performer,

is there anything that you'd really like me to focus on or whatever it is. And sometimes I can get, sometimes I can talk about it and sometimes I can't, not, not, I can't, oh, I can't, that's dangerous, political or whatever it is. Sometimes they can't just because there's no,

there's no time. You know, some of the, some of the more like, you know, last week we had, was it last, everything runs together for me now. Yes, it was last week. We had a four-team match to determine the number one contenders for the tag team titles. Well, those, Matt, there's so much action and you're trying to call the action, but also wanting to impart some of this story.

And as a, like, I mean, it's such a skill. Like the, you know, when that's when I go back and I watch things or because I rewatch Dynamite after I see it to see, okay, how can I get better at this or whatever it is. And then I'll watch like older wrestling and I'll hear like JR and, you know, some of these, you know, other people, even Gordon Solie and then how good they are at talking about what's going on in the ring, but also imparting the story and then also doing the things. It's like a, it's a tough job. When you say that your neck's bothering you now, what specifically is it? So I have degeneration from C1 all the way down to T2. So it's like cervical. Your entire neck. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, there's, you know, and it's like I'm on the cusp of needing surgery, right?

And it's like this weird line, well, you could, you like, I'd like to avoid surgery as much as possible. Yeah. And so my last neck surgery was really like. I never fully recovered from it, right, in the sense of, like, getting back the strength gains and the mobility and all that sort of thing. And so I'd really like to avoid it as much as possible, especially because my son is a menace. So it's like he just like, I had a broken arm, right? So you have a big cast, right?

I'm in a sling. I say, buddy, okay, you can't touch Daddy's arm and he's jumping on my arm and all this kind of stuff. And I'm just like, oh, no. If I get neck surgery, there's no. like, it's not like you wear a neck brace. It's not like you walk around in a neck brace, but he just doesn't, he's pure boy. Sure. Right. And he, and he can't, no matter how many times Bree tells him, and I, you know,

I tell him, but, but not as forcefully as Bree does, but Bree's like, get off of daddy's neck. And he just can't not do it. It's just like a boy thing. And so like our daughter is super good about it, you know, but she's, you know, but he's, you know, he's all Are you six months a year from getting neck surgery? Are you just pushing this off as far as you can? I mean, I'd like to never get next surgery, you know? So, so yeah. I mean, I'm just the, it was, it was, I was actually doing really well until I started

traveling more. And then, and then it's really gone downhill. You know, I had, I had these weird, I don't, they're not even weird. I wouldn't even say it's weird. You know, I had the, these delusions about like, okay, maybe. maybe I could get back and do a little bit of wrestling or whatever it is. Those, now I see that they were delusions. Like, this traveling is like, okay, yeah, this is, this is not.

This is not, that would not be a good idea. Do you consider yourself fully retired from the ring right now? I hate the R word because I was forced to retire before. And so it was just like, yeah, so I never consider myself fully retired. Like, you know, I could, you know, and I think, and this is how I think, and this is how a lot of wrestlers think, well, I think I could do this in this situation if needed or called upon or whatever it is. But, but yeah, you know, effectively for the Brian Danielson that I used to be, yeah, that guy doesn't exist anymore.

But that's the thing. Do you want to go back in the ring if you can't be that Brian Danielson? Oh, I mean, I would love to not on TV, right? Like, you know, so, for example, I find, I spent so much of, I don't want to say so much. large portion of my early career doing Butlin's shows in the UK because I was very bad at performing to an odd like being entertaining right and William Regal hooked me up with Brian Dixon we'd go over and these butlin's holiday camps they're just like uh it's like you pay so you pay $500 for a weekend and your whole family can go and what's it's it includes food

it includes entertainment so you see magicians you see musicians. You see, you know, you can go to a dance hall and oh, in the afternoon there's wrestling. So these people aren't wrestling fans. They just want to be entertained. You know what I mean? And so it's like, uh, William Regal had me go over there because, you know, although I naturally picked on the wrestling aspect of it very quickly, I did not pick up the entertainment aspect very quickly. And so I spent a lot of time and I learned to love it, right? Like that, you know, go out there and I'd sing the national, the American national anthem very poorly and forget the word. And like, there would be times where I'd be like, okay, how many times can I accidentally hit myself in the crotch and like all these sorts of things?

And so it's like, and we were doing it six, seven days a week, you know, every week. There was one, the first time I went was 2003 and I was there for six months. And in the last 15 days I was there, I wrestled 21 matches. And so it's like, and so you kind of have to with this kind of schedule and you're doing long drives every day and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, with that kind of schedule, you had to be more entertaining. That's what Regal said. He said, that stuff saved me when I was hurt. You know, when you look at William Regal's career, I remember all the great wrestling matches.

What I think a lot of fans remember is his comedy skits backstage and how funny he was. And then if you look at his ring stuff when he was like, when he was at, you know, he was doing a lot of like flexing and then pushing his bice up and all. that kind of, you know, but that's all stuff that you learn from doing these, like, holiday camps versus at the time I was doing a lot of independent wrestling that was very much geared towards having great matches, right? So, so, uh, so yeah, that said, I could, I think I could go have fun matches and have fun doing the fun matches, but then I don't think that that's the TV, uh, that's not the kind of wrestling fans would want to pay to see Brian Danielson do. If you weren't comfortable entertaining in front of a crowd, when did it start

to click for you? So, oh gosh, I would say after that first tour of England. So that's 2003. Okay. So yeah. So in 2000, by the end of that run, I got really, really comfortable. And I think, I would say before that, I have what a lot of wrestlers have. You see a lot of wrestlers, you know, they're, you know, they're psyching themselves up or they're mildly stressed or whatever it is. And they'd go out there and, you know, and they wrestle like that, right? The first time I really felt like, like, I can relax while I'm out here and I can have fun doing this is, and then getting comfortable with it is that 2003, that six months that I spent in England in 2003. and I went back there in 2005, stayed for four months. I went back there in 2008 again.

By 2008, I'm a decently big name on the independent scene. And I just left for three months just to go do these Butlin shows. And I was making like 50 pounds a show. And it's like, but it was just fun. You know what I mean? And so, so yeah, that's when I started getting comfortable with it. And then one of the things that I couldn't believe happened. My first match back was against, I,

been in England and then they flew me back to do a Ring of Honor show in New Jersey against AJ Stiles. And I was like, oh, you know, at first I was like, okay, a little nervous. I haven't done this kind of match in six months, you know? And then once I got out there, I was like, oh, like this whole thing has just changed my mental, what goes on internally while I wrestle. And I think that's what must have happened with the territories. You know, when you talk about like, okay, Rick Flair doing X number of shows, he must have at some point kind of stopped stressing about it and trusted in his own abilities and being able to go out there and do that. And I think when you are that confident in your ability to go out there and do something,

then that opens you up to being more entertaining. That opens you up to being more fun and all that kind of stuff. What do you think your career would look like had WWF not got bought by WCW? Or WCW not get bought by WVF at the time? You're signed at that time. You're there for how many months is it? A few months, right? Oh, I was there.

Early on. Yeah, I got bought or I got a, I got a contract when, I was under contract for a little over a year. And I don't know if people realized that. No, no, no, no. You were there, it was like 20, almost 25 years ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got signed in February of 2000 and then got let go in June or July of 2001. So, yeah, it was, but I mean, you know,

So I don't know. My career, I think, and I think my life was better because I got fired then, right? But that's, you know, that's all hindsight, right? At the time, it was just like, I thought I was the richest man alive when I got fired. I was making, at first they hired us at $500 a week, you know, which is $26,000 a year. And I thought it was so rich. Because I, you know, I grew up below the poverty line and I was just like, and I was just like, oh my god you're just going to give me five hundred dollars every week to wrestle like this is this is

unbelievable and then i and then they when we moved to memphis so we were in san antonio uh when they first gave us the deal then we moved to memphis and they paid a 750 a week and i'm like oh my this is the most money i can't even imagine having this much money right like what is what is this you know, and then, you know, and then they, and then they fired me and it's like, oh, no. And it's like, okay. But then they pay you for 90 days after that. And I'm like, oh, wow, this is just like free money. I don't even have to do anything. Yeah, yeah. But it was weird because then I had to start building a name on the independent scene and then you're going back to the idea of like, okay, there was this great company called ECCW. I'm pretty sure, and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty

sure it's standard for extremely Canadian championship wrestling. But they would do like 150 shows a year. And so they were in, they were based out of like Vancouver and Surrey, British Columbia. And so I moved back home, lived with my mom, started going to community college, worked two jobs. And then I'd go up on the weekends. And they'd do like three shows every weekend. And so I'd go up and I'd do those shows. And they'd pay me $75 Canadian, which at the time was like $45 American. And it did not include my gas money. So by the time I paid, you know, I was barely breaking even or whatever it is. But the time making $750 a week allowed me to have that kind of savings to words. Yeah, I was rich.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was, you know, it wasn't a bad gig. I'm such a big believer in like, if this thing doesn't happen, then that thing can't happen. And if that thing doesn't happen, then, you know, all of these other things don't happen. It eventually ends up leading you to go back to WWE. But how do you feel when they're calling you a rookie after, you know, you'd be. been doing your thing for 10 years, you're a rookie, and now you have to be mentored by the miss. Oh, I thought it was great, right? Because what you want in WWE is you want some sort of story.

So, and this is like, one of the things that I, that I had a hard time with is so I had, when they signed me, I had longer hair and like a little bit more of a wilder look, right? And I liked that look. And, but they said, okay, you're going to do this thing with the Miz, you're going to be a rookie. So I really, without anybody asking me to, and maybe that's one of the things that I should have,

hey, how much are we going to play into it? And the reality is, they didn't put much thought into that show at all. Right? So it was like, now that looking back on it, it's like, oh, that was like, their main priority was to, they'd film Smackdown on Tuesdays. Their main priority was Smackdown. And then we were just, they just threw NXT together, you know, before that.

But I, you know, but I thought, oh, this is it. And it was, it was huge opportunity, right, to be, to be on TV. So what I did is I cut my hair more to look more generic. I tried to look as generic as possible with the idea. And me and Ms. like were collaborating on, on this stuff of some ideas. And Ms. was great about like pitching ideas to like the writers and all that kind of stuff. But all these things of, okay, I can't learn. wrestling from Ms.

but he's going to teach me to be a superstar. And me being frustrated, like, that's not important. The only thing that's important is the wrestling. And, you know, like, that kind of thing that people think that I actually think or that people think he would actually think. We're like, oh, this could be a really good TV dynamic.

And we both thought that. And then none of it ever happened. So then I just looked like a nerd for no reason. And not to say that I'm not a nerd. I'm just saying that, you know, I went out of my way to look less, you know. That explains it. Yeah, yeah.

That explains the look. Yeah, yeah. This episode is brought to you by Factor. With the holidays here, it's always tough to find time to cook. And that's why I love Factor. Their chef-prepared, dietitian-approved meals make it easy to stay on track and enjoy something comforting and delicious, no matter how hectic the season gets.

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Uh, yes. Yes. I would, yeah. And, you know, also the idea of wanting to try something new, like I always kind of wanted to push myself. I knew it was probably the last wrestling contract I'd ever sign, you know. I wanted to see I had

watched Cody wrestle Penta and Cody and I used to ride with Cody he did this like they're both standing on the top and Cody did this top rope

Frankenstein on Penn I was like is that what is that what you have to do and part of it is scary and part of it is like intriguing like oh can I do this

I used to be able to do this style can I still do this style And this is, that's the, it's the style that I gravitate towards is like a more athletic sports-based style. And so, you know, I wanted to see that. You know, there was also the idea at the time, you know, the pandemic was just kind of ending and we're starting to do live shows again. I didn't know if WWE was going to start doing the live events and stuff again because that scheduled. And at that point, I had, I had be a two kids. and I was like, I don't want to do that schedule anymore.

Like at AW, it's just Wednesdays. At the time, it was just Wednesdays. And I was like, that was a very appealing schedule to me for my family. And then I also wanted to see if my body could still do some of these things. And some of it, it could and some of it couldn't. You know, you learn that the hard way. What do you think the biggest difference between the American Dragon and Daniel Brian are?

Oh, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's all what the, what the companies wanted, you know, like the, Daniel, Daniel Bryan is a character and people relate to characters, right? Brian Danielson is closer to me, but it's still a character. It's like, okay, if I'm talking about violence, I'm not a violent person, right? When I was a kid, I grew up in a logging community. So, yeah, we'd get in fights or whatever it is, but it's not like, it's not like, that's my thing. right i don't you know not looking for a fight you know i'm not looking for a fight you know and so it's

like uh yeah so it you know it's just interesting i you know i think i adapt i i've always tried to adapt to whatever the circumstances are of the promotion that i'm working for so like if i worked for ring of honor i would work i would wrestle in a way that not necessarily gave Sapolsky wanted me to in this it was more of like okay this is how I see this audience and this is how I see them liking things when I wrestle for WWE nobody told me how to wrestle specifically I saw the I saw the WWE audience liking certain things I thought okay I will wrestle this way and that's how I wrestled in a w okay the AW audience likes this sort of thing I will wrestle this way When I wrestled in Butlands, the Butland's audience likes this sort of thing.

I will wrestle this way. And so it's all, you know, it's, and it's all, it all expands, right? It's, it's all an expansion of your abilities whenever you're trying to do these things. Like, wrestling in WWE expanded my ability as a wrestler, right? Wrestling in AWW, I think mentally, from a mental standpoint. of putting together wrestling. By the end of my AEW run, I thought I was better mentally at wrestling

than I'd ever been. But that's a culmination of AEW. It's a culmination of things I learned in WW. It's a culmination of things I learned in Ring of Honor. It's a culmination of things I learned in Butlins, right? It's like, it's all of those things. Do you have a greater appreciation for this most recent run? Because you were told you wouldn't be able to do it again?

Yes. I mean, once I came back from retirement, even my, yeah, when I came back in 2018, it was, it was really weird. Sean Michaels told us when, because I was trained by Sean Michaels. So he told the whole class, he said, the day that you stopped being nervous before you go out there is the day that you need to retire, right? And when I came back from being forced to retire, I thought that first match I'd be nervous.

And I wasn't. I was just happy. And I never really got nervous before a match again. There was one match that I was nervous for. And that was the match I had with Okada at Forbidden Door in 2023. And the only reason why I was nervous is because it was a five-hour show. We were on last and we had to follow Kenny Omegan Will Osprey. And it was just like, I had watched that match.

I was like, oh, no. And then there's still two more matches. and then me and Okada have to go out there. I was like, oh. And then I was just like stressed. And I was like, oh. But it was like, but that's the only time I remember being nervous before a match. There was a really fun match I had with Matt Menard.

I was sick as a dog, right? I was in the trainers room. They hadn't announced me having a match. And most of the time, at the time, Tony Khan announced all the matches for Dynamite. So I just assumed I wasn't wrestling that night. And I was thankful because I was sick as a dog. and I was in the trainer's room and they were doing whatever to me

and Tony comes in and he's like Hey Brian do you want to wrestle and normally my answer would be hell yes right And I just like No not really And he goes oh Okay well I mean I had a match idea And I was just like what is it?

I can do it no no you don't need to It became this thing now I'm telling him Like what you should put if this is better for the show Put me in them anyways we ended up going out there and doing this match and Matt Menard hadn't wrestled he hadn't wrestled any matches in six months he hadn't done a singles match in over two years

and so he's a little bit stressed out I'm sick as a dog and still I wasn't nervous at all and when I went out there I had so much fun and I tell this I talk about this match to everybody who will listen whenever I'm in front of Matt Menard because he was so worried about getting tired in the match and

And then he got super exhausted. But then he's still in the middle of commercial break. Like one of the things that's most tiring when you're wrestling and people don't understand this is like the yelling. Right. If you're physically exhausted and then you're yelling. So I told him in the commercial break, I said, okay, you know, relax a little bit. Just take a breather. No!

It's my time! That's my time! And me and his partner, Angelo Parker, his name is Jeff. I love Jeff. He's great. We were just dying after the match. We were just, and we've given him an endless amount of crap for that. So, yeah.

Well, yeah, wrestling is fun. And, like, if you let down the barriers that of worry and how. how is this going to go and all this kind of stuff. You can go out there and it's just, I mean, it's super unique. I mean, it's like, you know, I've done commercials, right? I did a five-hour energy commercial. W.W. said, hey, we'd like you to do a five-hour energy thing.

I'd say, oh, I'd prefer not to. And they're like, nope, you're doing it. I was like, for not to. You know, like, I don't know anything about five-hour energy, but I'm just like, that's not my thing, right? I don't, you know, and so, oh, I'd prefer not to, oh, well, you're doing it anyways. Okay, here we go. And so, you know, and it's not like they, you know, they still paid, they paid me extra for it.

So it's not like, you know, whatever. I don't want to say anything negative, right, about, you know, about that kind of stuff. But gosh, now I've lost my train of thought. Where were we? You're saying wrestling is fun. Oh, wrestling. Yeah, you know, wrestling is fun. And you just have to, a lot of people get so caught up before they go out there in like expectations or this need, this, oh, this, or there's all this weight of fan expectation or what's the social media response going to be or whatever it is.

And it's just like, you go out there and you are wrestling. Sometimes, hey, I've wrestled in front of probably 20 people, right? and that's hard. But once you get to like 150, 200 people, you've reached escape velocity where there's energy in the room, right? So there's energy. Even in front of 150 people, there's energy in the room. And with 1,000 people, there's energy in the room.

With 3,000 people, there's energy in the room. There's 10,000 people there's energy in the room. And it's unlike anything else. You're doing a live performance that is somewhat impromptu in front of live. of people and that energy and like it's just unlike anything else and it's hard to it's hard to get that once you once you stop doing it when did you really start to feel that yes was getting over oh gosh what's the earliest memory of going oh okay we're on to something yeah the first the first

time we were in seattle um and it's Seattle's always was always a hard place to say if something's actually getting over or if it's just my hometown crowd. But it was like, okay, I had done the yes thing to get annoying, to be annoying and to be a bad guy. And but we go to Seattle and they had me do, you know, and during the commercial break, they had me do the thing where it's like, I actually hate Seattle, you know, whatever it is.

And people boo, but then when I came out there, they still cheered. It didn't matter. But that was the first time where there were large parts of the audience chanting yes, right? And then, yeah, I mean, I wasn't sure. And then when they had Seamus beat me in 18 seconds at WrestleMania, 28, maybe? That was 28, yeah. Yeah.

You know, and the fans were just yessing like crazy when I went out there. You could tell that they were bummed when I walked to the, or when the match was so short, then I walked to the back. And the great callee of all people was like, man, that was fucking bullshit. And I was like, oh, Collie, I didn't know you cared. Thank you. But then like the next night, it's like, oh, okay, well, you know, night after Raw,

there was lots of people, yes, but it just kept going. And yeah, I mean, that was kind of when after a couple months after that and it was still happening. I was like, oh, okay. This is, this is going to be here for a bit. Did they tell you at WrestleMania 28, it needs to be really quick? did they say less than 30 seconds, less than a minute, needs to be 18 seconds? I mean, what they said is, it's one move. It's like, you know, so, so that, you know, yeah, that was, that was the direction.

It's like, okay. Did you say, excuse me, why? No, I wasn't at that point in my career. Or I wasn't, I wasn't on, I, and also, I've never been somebody who's been like, wait a second, why would you beat me in 18 seconds? Or why would you beat me with just one move or whatever? It's like, okay, that's the creative direction. I'm going to do the best that I can with it.

And I find that a lot of people put up stinks about a lot of things or whatever it is. But I think, okay, this is, if you have an idea, it's like, oh, well, what if we do this? right nope we want to do that i mean you can put up a little resistance if you if you really don't like something but then if this is what the boss wants you're better off to do your your absolute best at what the boss wants and then try to get over from that i think a great example in a w is swerf strickland right like he came in and he lost a lot of matches but it was always like yeah just sir tony whatever whatever you need i'll go out there and do and then now look at him He's main evented paper views.

He's a world champion. He's just, he's, he's, he's fantastic. And then there will, there will be people who will, who will take the other idea of, oh, I don't want to do that or I don't even want to lose or this or that or whatever. Man, it's not real. It's like, you know, I mean, there's a couple guys in wrestling who would do well in MMA. There's a couple, you know, not men.

And so it's like, okay, I mean, you can go. If you want to, if you want to win every match, you can go try MMA. I mean, most MMA, I mean, we're in Houston, right? I'm sure there's an MMA gym here. Sure. You could even just try out the best guy at the local gym here in Houston in your weight class and see how it goes. Sure.

Probably won't go so well. Right, yeah, because you've spent, you know, and not to say that guys in wrestling couldn't do it, It's just we haven't spent time training to me. Yeah. Right. You know, and so it's like, so yeah, but it's, yeah, I've always been a little bit perplexed by some of that kind of stuff. But you've now become like the preeminent example of like getting over organically and the

company listening to it. Like there's been so many examples in recent years where it's like, this feels like the Daniel Bryan thing. If only they'd listen. When did you feel like they were starting to listen? Oh, I mean, it was all circumstance. Really? It was like, you know, the, what makes that hard, what would make that hard now in either company is that you have so many guys on top that one are great and two people want to see that aren't, that aren't stale or anything like, you know.

So what are the circumstances you're talking about? So the, you know, a big one was punk quitting in WWE. be the other one was that fans i think in 2013 fans were wanting somebody new and at the time you know they were uh there was a big one they did this championship unification thing it was actually super special for me because it was the last time my dad ever got to see me wrestle before he passed away they were doing this championship unification match between randy orton and john cina so they had all the ex w w tv champions all the ex-world heavyweight champions out there in the ring.

But we're in Seattle, so everybody's going crazy for me, which, and I, in my head, I was like, oh, no, this is not going to end out, turn out good for me, right? You know, so, you know, but, but we had seen a long time of John Sina against Randy Orton and, you know, the same guys on top for a long time, and you could just feel the crowd, like I could feel it, the crowd wants somebody new. Well, the crowd hijacked that segment. Yeah. Triple H is trying to talk.

Yes. And they're chanting, Daniel O'Brien. Yeah. But even in the sense of like, but then when Batista won that Royal Rumble, you know, I feel bad for Batista. Because, I mean, he worked hard to come back and all that kind of stuff. You do that with Batista now.

He gets a great reaction. Really? Any other year. Any other year. Yeah. But it was just, and it wasn't, it wasn't necessary. I don't think it was necessarily me. it was okay

the crowd had gotten behind Adolf Sigler the crowd had gotten behind to Kofi Kingston and they get up to a certain level and then they were during that era it was like okay then they would always

kind of be pushed back down or whatever it is I think fans were starting to get upset by it and I mean even Punk right you know me and me and punk had wrestled a match on a pay-per-view it must have been 2012

for the title and and it was it was for the title we were in the middle of the show and the main event was john loronitis and john sina right you know what i mean the fans were i think the fans were ready for for something new or whatever it is and so i mean that's just time and place and i mean there's a lot of my career that's been like that so it's like um so yeah i mean i i'm i'm of the firm belief that uh you you could have any any i was in a very fortunate position even winning the title i wasn't even supposed to, I wasn't even supposed to be there today. I think it's clerks. Do you remember that movie? I wasn't even supposed to be there. When I first went the world, the thing that

the whole led to me yesing was I had won the money in the bank. And the only reason I won the money in the bank is because they had two money in the banks. They had one for Raw and one for Smackdown. They knew for sure they wanted Alberto Del Rio to win the Raw one. On the Smackdown one, they thought

they wanted Wade Barron. Cody Rhodes or me. On the day of the show, they all decided it was me because they didn't want a bad guy to win the money in the bank on the Smackdown side because they had a bad guy winning it on the raw side. But the most important thing was the Alberto Del Rio thing. And so, but then they gave me the money in the bank

and they're like, oh no. Now Daniel Bryan has the money in the bank. And we don't necessarily, nobody at that point had cashed in and lost. And so, you know, we did a couple things with it for a couple weeks. And then I was off TV for like six weeks or whatever it is. Like, oh, then they inserted me in a story with big show and Mark Henry, you know,

which got me on TV or whatever it is. But it was great. It put me in a story. But then Mark Henry got hurt. This was at the TLC pay-per-view in 2011. Mark Henry gets hurt. I wasn't scheduled to be at the pay-per-view. I had a Walmart signing that same thing.

same day in Baltimore with Kelly Kelly and came over to the building because Bree was there. And I think Bree had a match on the show. And so I was there. And then Vince found out that I was there. And then Daniel Bryan's here. And then it's like, oh, because I had been involved in this thing with Mark Henry and Big Show. Okay. Well, then let's.

And Mark Henry's hurt. So they had to do like a real smoke and mirrors type. match and then Mark gets mad at Big Show and then just because I happened to be there, it's like, we can have, it'll be shocking that Daniel Bryan comes in and cashes in on Big Show. So even that

was just like, it was just a circumstance. If I hadn't, if I hadn't been booked, if Walmart hadn't asked to have two WWE wrestlers sign at that, on that particular day, that whole thing would have never happened. Wow. And Vince's

's direction to me was, go out there and sell like you, like you just won the Super Bowl. And so that's, and then that's how the yes thing happened. And then I got, and then, you know, but, you know, a lot of these are just circumstances. If they had let me and me and Seamus at WrestleMania 18 go out there and wrestle for 20 minutes and then he beats me. I don't know if it would have stayed as hot. I mean, it was more angry that they just had him beat me in 18 seconds with one move. So it's like, you know, all of these things are things beyond my control.

I have nothing to do with any of these things. And they're just, they're just these weird little gifts. So take me to the day when you're told you're going to win at WrestleMania 30. Gosh, I don't even remember. I honestly, I don't. WrestleMania 30 was a very difficult time period for me. Because I had, my neck was really bad. I had gotten a concussion that I had to have,

hide, not had to hide, but I mean like, I realized I was in this thing, this trajectory of going to WrestleMania 30. I had gotten a bad concussion and then, but I had to hide it and was doing live events with the concussion. And then I was wrestling one one match and after the match, I couldn't, I was in the shower and I couldn't even stand. Like I kept, and I was just like, oh, I was writing by myself and I had to ask a friend to drive me to the next town. And so, and then, you know, I got WrestleMania 30. I got WrestleMania 30 happened. I was not in a great headspace, to be honest.

I was getting, I got married on the Friday. My wife and I went on a honeymoon and we, we got this. I'd never been to Hawaii before. So we went to Maui and we stayed at this eco retreat. It was awesome. But I was staring up at the, like, I was looking up and you had this like portal to the moon. It's so, so brilliant. We had this portal to the moon.

And I, like, but the room just wouldn't stop spinning. And, you know, at this point, the Chris Nguinsky concussion book had come out. And I knew that I'd been lying about concussions for a while. And then, and then, yeah. And then we get back from our honeymoon on the Saturday. we fly to Baltimore, which is the place where I first won the World Heavyweight Championship, cashing in that money in the bank, and then I found out the next morning my dad died. I completely unexpected.

So it's like, so people ask me about wrestling. Honestly, that whole thing was a blur. It was just a blur, right? And so, um, so yeah. So it's like, I don't remember them telling me who told me what. I mean, it was a, it was a, it was a wild one. How many concussions do you think you've had? that.

So I've had 13 documented concussions. Who knows, right? I think the numbers double that? Yeah, who knows, right? I don't know. The, it's just weird because, you know, when I started in 1999, the idea is that like, oh, you just got dinged, right? Your bell rung.

Yeah, yeah, you got your bell rung. And so, you know, with all the, with all the stuff that they, that they've discovered about concussions since then, you know, yeah. I mean, it's, it's probably too many. I would say it's probably too many. So did you have an inkling in 2016 that maybe you'd had too many concussions? Yeah. So what, what had happened is I'd had some post-concussion seizures that I never told WWE about. And then, um, that sounds scary.

Yes. And so then, Bree, who had been there to witness a post-concussion seizure, she said, the next concussion you have. And, you know, she was worried about me, you know, when we were on a honeymoon and, you know, the room's spinning. And this is supposed to be the best week of our life for whatever it is, right? Yeah. And there was also a semi-funny-funny incident, but she became worried that it was it was because of concussions rather than just my overall aloofness we were in Maui and we had rented a car and we were doing the gosh i forget what it's called but it's like uh oh the me doesn't matter you're going along the east side of the island you're doing this drive and you um and then we stopped at this beach we made a million stops just

to see uh uh all the different things and we stopped stopped at this beach and the waves looked great. And I'm like, I'm going to go body surfing. And so I go in the car and then I'm just, Brie took this picture of me as I'm emerging from the water. Just like, oh, Brian just must be the happiest man alive. And then she goes, where are the car keys? And then I was like, oh, no.

And we lost them to the Pacific Ocean. And then I left him in my pocket. I don't think that was because of concussions. I think it's just my overall aloofness. Sure. As far as... You were excited to jump in. Yeah, I get it.

So, but, you know, but after that, you know, and then I had neck surgery and I was gone for nine months. But she said the very next concussion you have, you need to tell them about the seizures. How long would these seizures last? It's impossible to tell when you're in a seizure, right? Like, time doesn't exist. It's almost like when you get... Do you meditate? I do.

Yeah. So it's like when you get really deep into meditation, sometimes, like, I've got my timer set. I was like, that was 30 minutes. That felt like, it felt like nothing. Yeah. Right. And so, not to say that seizures or anything like meditation, but the loss of time. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, the contraction and expansion of time. And so, so, yeah, it's hard to say. I mean, I would guess if I had to guess, like the one, that Brie witnessed was if you had to ask her it felt like forever but was probably a minute maybe

two minutes. That still sounds terrifying. Yeah, yeah. You know it's it's a weird experience. You're just kind of like yeah. So then you went to get this check down and they said it was a brain leisure right? No. So the what had happened is I told the doctor

you know I went to a neurologist in Phoenix, Arizona and, you know, thinking, thinking in my head, and this is how, you know, naive I am, so thinking, okay, I can tell the doctor, and he won't put it in the report. Like, WWE gets, right? And I said, you know, and then, you know, and hoping that, you know, he and I could work it out together.

And then WDB is like, you, what? and it's like um so anyways all of that to say then it was like it wasn't just the seizures it was the fact that i had been lying to them for years like that's a trust thing right and this is you know um the so the that doctor that neurologist had actually cleared me to wrestle he said you need to you know, they looked at, okay, does Brian need anti-seizure medication? In which case, I mean, that would have been, that would have been a very different situation. It was determined I didn't need anti-seizure medication. I hadn't had post-concussion seizure since 2012. And, and so, so, yeah, and then, so, but then they were like, yeah, it's probably smart, you know, and they have to,

WDB has to worry about liability and all of these different things. And then the head of medical for WWW, Dr. Joseph Maroon, who I became very close with, he's great. He has to worry about his own personal liability and all that kind of stuff. And I understood why I was forced to retire. And the idea was I was trying to get out of this. I knew that they were kind of leaning this way, right? And, you know, it was a full year, almost a full year after that concussion that, where I actually announced my retirement.

But that year, I was trying to, like, prove that, okay, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm okay. And then one of the, and I was doing all these experimental things, right? You know, they hooked up all these EEGs to my head or whatever it is. and in this thing, they said they saw a brain lesion, right? And then it was like, oh boy, you know. And then, but I had told them that from this point forward, I will be completely honest with you with all of my medical stuff. And so I told them the results of that.

But now you get into the idea of what's a lesion, right? What do you think a lesion is? Got a cut? Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Yeah, right? Yeah. I've got a cut on my brain. But no, it turns out that that's not, it was just an abnormality.

Here we see an abnormality in what we would normally see. Call it a lesion. Yeah, and they call it a lesion. And it's not like, it's a little bit more than an abnormality, but it's certainly not a cut in the sense that you and I would think of like, oh, no, my brain's bleeding or whatever it is. But then, yeah, so that was the story behind that. That was devastating for me. There's a huge difference between being forced to retire.

like I was, you know, I, I commemorate being forced to retire in 2015 after that concussion. I didn't actually announce my retirement until 2016. But there's a huge difference between being forced to retire and then choosing. Like, you know what? I think I'm ready. Christopher Daniels says, was telling me, every wrestler has their last match, but not every wrestler knows when their last match is. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's a big difference. Yeah, yeah. It's a huge difference. And like, you know, obviously I didn't want my kids to be at my last match, kind of knowing what was going to happen. But a couple months before my last match, they got to be there at Wembley at All In. That was by far my favorite moment of my career just because of my kids at an age where they'll remember it, or at least my daughter will. We don't know about my son, but my daughter still talks about it, right?

And so my son still talks about it, but his memory is going to be a little foggy. That whole match, like curtain to curtain, it's just beautiful. What an amazing entrance. And the crowd there is singing along to the final countdown. Then an incredible match culminated by you winning the AEW championship. Then the music hits again and your family comes in the ring. It was perfect. Yeah.

And I envision from a fan's perspective, that's what wrestling. Mania 30 feels like too. Right. My perspective from that was very, very different, right? That's interesting. And so it's like, so yeah, you know, it's very,

uh, it's, you know, the, the idea of being able to, for, for just one moment in time, being cool to your kids is like,

it goes a long way, right? I'm with you. I'm in a similar boat. I'm a few years behind you. I've got an older daughter and a younger son. Yeah.

two and a half in 10 months right now. Oh my gosh. You're in it. We are in it. So I can't even imagine a few years from now my kids actually understanding what I do for a living. Yeah. Especially in front of 50,000 people. Right.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it's super cool. But I mean, it's like, but, you know, it's really, it's also really interesting and sobering. Like I love wrestling, right? the wrestling and reading are really the only two forms of entertainment I partake in, right? Like, I don't watch movies, movies, I don't watch TV shows, I don't go on social media.

Like, and you think, I think of all of these things as like entertainment. I've even recently stopped listening to music. Completely. Mostly. Mostly, completely. I mean, I can't eliminate it completely. Like, you drive the kids to school. they want to play K-pop Demon Hunter's album or whatever

and it's just like oh my gosh those songs will get stuck in your head it's crazy but what I find is that there's too many inputs in this world right in the sense of like okay too many things going into your brain

and for me I want time to kind of observe and I want time to think for myself and I don't want any of these things to changed the way I think, right? And so, so yeah, but, but all of that to say, um, at the end of the day, wrestling is entertainment, right? And so it's like this in a world filled with entertainment. Yeah. And so how much importance do you place on entertainment in your life? And, you know,

as a society, we place a huge importance on entertainment and distraction, right? And so it's like, um, so I, I'm trying to, the I care deeply about wrestling just because you know you have this connection to to something but I don't want I never want to push it as being something that's okay you have to oh people will say this to me oh you have to watch the show like why it's great lots of things are great yeah I love doing the five whys right uh-huh so you got to watch a show show. Why? Because it's great. Why? Yeah. Well, because this, this and this.

Well, why does that make it great? And I think it's interesting because it boils down to like, what are you really talking about? Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Did it change your perception of the world? Right? So that that's, you know, if one of the things I like wrestling from a, I like wrestling for wrestling sake, right? Like I am obsessed with the in ring aspect of wrestling. I am, I am really fascinated by the story aspect of wrestling and the continuity aspect of wrestling and then like okay how is wrestling changing in response to society i would love to see you know some more uh some more characters that are that reflect the age that we're in now right and

and how do you how do you do that i mean that's i have some ideas Yes, but I mean, you know, but, but all of all of that said, it's like, it's because this medium, this, this very specific medium is something that I'm very interested in. And I think, I'm of the opinion that live wrestling, you can, if you go to a live wrestling match, anybody who isn't even a wrestling fan can go to a live wrestling match and have a great time. Yeah. And especially when there's great wrestling, right? You know, and like other people are super into it and all that kind of stuff.

But to devote, you know, you know, you would know this as now a father of two and being really deep in it right now. But in me, even though my kids are a little bit older and I'm not as deep in it as that, it's like, okay, who's going to devote to devote four hours a week to watch professional? wrestling who is going to if you if you consume wbwe programming as well then that's now you're now you're looking at nine hours of tv if you watch ring of honor now you're 10 hours if you want to enjoy new japan if you want to enjoy cmLL and like all this kind of stuff that's a that's a career it's literally every day yeah yeah yeah so so it's like okay you know like um and i don't consume that much wrestling right i mostly watch AEW i sometimes look at

wrestling from the past and then when i hear about great things in CMLL and new japan because they're our partners i watch them i think CMLL is amazing right it's so much fun but but yeah but it's like even even me as somebody who loves professional wrestling there's only so much time you can spend to it and so but there's also this giant life to be lived

yeah as far as being able to do things. You love wrestling. It's abundantly clear. You are passionate about wrestling. What are you feeling during that talking smack segment when the Ms. is saying those things to you, some of which you may perceive to be true in that moment? Oh, so this is the, you know, I've said it before, but nobody picks up on it.

It's fine. So he and I, he was very frustrated. He was the Intercontinental champion. I was very frustrated. I was GM and I was trying to get cleared and they weren't clearing me. And I wanted my release. If they weren't going to clear me, I wanted my release to go work for it. New Japan was super hot at the time.

Like, oh boy. You know, the stuff I could do there. So we came up with the idea of we were going to, we were just going to, and we didn't talk to anybody about it. It was just me and him. and, uh, and,

we had talked about, hey, is it okay if I say this? Hey, is it okay if I say this? Yeah. Let's let's, you know, let's do it. And then at the end, I was going to punch him, like legit punch him.

Not as hard as I could, but hard enough to where it's like, okay, that's a real punch. These guys are unhappy with each other. Thinking either, okay, this is going to force their hand a little bit. This is, this is, uh,

either they see it and it's great and oh my gosh brian or they're going to be like we can't have people punching each other at work brian you're fired which wouldn't be it would have been at that point the third time so i'm fine uh and so um but miz was so great i thought and i just had this realization while he was doing his thing i was like i should walk off let him have you know you have these things I constantly call them I regularly call them delusions I regular have have these delusions of things that I think I should do right and in while he was just going off he was just on fire and it came I was like he he his frustration at the time but they were not doing

anything with him as an intercontinental champion and he works really really hard yeah And I was just like, this is me just trying to come back to wrestling. Did Renee know? What's that? No. Renated. Neither did Maurice. And so nobody knew.

And so then it was just kind of an momentary decision in the moment, the right thing to do instead of taking his seat away and punching him felt like to walk away. And because nobody knew, even though me and Ms. afterwards, like, that was great. And you could see the, like, relief on Maurice's face as far as, like, but so I had to go to, I think I did something at NXT the next day. And everybody was looking at me. We were like, oh, I can't believe Brian just walked away. Like, didn't, you know, whatever it was.

It was, it was kind of weird. And I was like, oh, dude, none of these people know that, oh, okay, whatever, you know, I'm not worried about what other people think. Yeah. And so it's like, but yeah, that was a, to me, that's one of the things that I have always aspired to do in wrestling is, is create these situations where people get invested because, you know, part of wrestling is getting invested because we create a good story. And everybody knows it's a story, and it's a great story that we've created.

But part of me yearns for this imaginary time period. where people thought wrestling was real. Now, when did anybody ever think that? I don't know, right? There's, you know, like, you know, people will say, people used to think it was real. I was like, did they? I don't know.

People have been hitting the ropes since, you know, whatever. And certainly that's very cartoonish. And, but, you know, I've always had this kind of yearning to get people to believe what they see, right? in a world where in the wrestling world where it becomes just entertainment right like oh what we saw there for a second for however long that's real and i feel like there's connection there you know what i mean like there's there's connective tissue to there and then there's really emotion and it's um so yeah that's you know i had always kind of held out hope i i always say in

interviews that, oh, me and Ms. don't like each other or whatever it is, you know, and it's just like, but I think I can drop the act and say I like him because it's like, I always thought like, oh, maybe we'll do a Butlins run or whatever it is, right? Sometime, sometime, you know, created this story that's lasted for since the time I started with WWE since 2010. It's like this, you know, you brought it up, okay? this thing and you guys have this antagonism. And we were always working together. And we're very different personalities so you can buy it.

Well, it was cool to hate on Ms. for so long. Yeah. And I feel like over maybe only the last year or two, people start to appreciate how good. Yes. Okay. He's getting his flowers now. Oh, yeah.

Good for him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, there's like this appreciation of like, you know. Hey, this guy works really hard. Really hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I could talk to you all day. I know I got to get you out of here. Before we go, your sister-in-law has come back to wrestling. Where does Bree sit on this?

Do you think Bree would ever come back? Yeah, only in certain contexts, right? She doesn't want to come back and do like a singles run or anything like that. If she comes back, she would want to do it with Nicole. And so, yeah. But I think there's something in her, too, that, and, I can appreciate this, that want, because our kids see her as just a mom, just a mom, as if that isn't the hardest job in the world.

160 hours away. As if that isn't the hardest job in the world. And it's like, and so, you know, part, part of her, I think, has a desire to see, to have the kids see her in that light, too, as far as like, you know, I don't think. I never, I didn't realize it until later how amazing my mom was, right, in the sense of, okay, we didn't have any money. She was a single mom. She was working two jobs going to college.

There was one, there was one, my, I don't remember if it was my junior year or senior year of high school. She was going on a walk with a friend and she just collapsed from exhaustion. She had to be taken to the, to the, to the, to the, to the, uh, to the, to the, uh, hospital to the emergency room. And the, you know, like she was somebody who we probably needed food stamps, but she lived in a small town. She didn't want to, she was a shame. She didn't want to go to the grocery store and pay with food stamps, all these sorts of things. She ended up, my mom is also an inspiration to me. She went to college, got her master's degree in psychology, ended up working with like underprivileged kids.

She worked with the Native Americans. She worked in the prison. She got attacked in a prison being, you know, in a room with an inmate. Wow. Yeah. And so it's like, but she's, you know. But and you think about that. And you think of like, okay, I grew up knowing I was loved.

Right, which is like, okay, that Bree and I can fail everything else in this life. But if we let our kids know that they're loved. But all of that to say, I don't think people, you don't, I don't understand how my mom did it now. I'm in amazement, right? Because financially, we're doing okay. We didn't have any of the financial stressors that my mom had. and she still made a lot of time for us. And like I said,

made us know that we were loved. And so it's like, Brie, it's like this whole mom thing. One day our kids will realize what a great mom she is. But it's like, but it's fun to see when they don't appreciate it. Right? So it's like I was FaceTiming her and the kids this morning.

And then just our son being as wild as he is. And then our daughter. And part of me, but you never say that as a parent. You never say, do you realize how much I'm doing for you? Right? That's the interesting thing is like you think that what it goes on in your house is what goes on in everybody's house. Yeah.

Like this is just normal. Yeah. This is the only experience you have as a kid. Right. Yeah. But when I think of that, I was thinking of saying that to my kids this morning. I said, do you guys know how much your mom is doing for you right now? I mean, daddy's over a thousand miles away.

But then we have this thing in our house, and it says something like something about, you know, the son, the son never asks. You know, the sun gives us all this light and all this energy and all this stuff, and it never asks for anything in return, right? That's the love that you give to others, right? The idea. So that's kind of the idea.

So then in those moments where I'm, like, you guys need to, like, at least say thank you to mom, at least this, that, or whatever, ever. And then I think of the son. And I'm just like, oh, well, you know, they're kids. They don't, they'll appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Speaking of which I might, no, Adam's right there. I'm not going to do it. What? I'm going to buy the sun. What do you mean? What? What do you mean what? you're going to buy the sun?

Not only am I going to, what if I bought this, what if I've already bought in the sun? The sun in the sky. Yeah. You purchased it. I purchased it. How much was it?

$5. Okay. But I laid claim to it. I think of these things all the time. Now, yes. This is what I want. Every interview, I want one time to look over at Adam Hopkins,

who's our PR guy. He'd me go, oh, God. I was talking to some kids. I went into San Antonio school a couple weeks ago, and then I started talking to them a little bit. I was, you know, about the different species of humans that existed at different period. Okay, that's, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I'm with you. Yeah. But I read the book, Sapiens. Yes. Okay, great. Yes. And then, but then, so now I've really started wondering about this whole, you know, when you think about the, like the Louisiana purchase and stuff, and it's like,

oh, okay, we bought this from the French and everything west of the Mississippi. Wait, you what? And then where I really think about it is oil. Like who's selling? Who gives you the right? I mean, it's taken millions of years for dinosaurs to go down into coal

and then that turns into oil. And then you're just purchasing it? Like you have a billion dollars. So you go, oh, here's my billion dollars of, which is kind of imaginary anyways. Now they're just like little digits and some computer screen. And now, so if they can do that, I'm going to buy the sun. And then all these people with solar panels, they're all going to have to give me a pretty penny. And then everybody with a plant are going to have to pay me as well.

And so, yeah, yeah, all of these things. So you own the sun? I own the sun. Okay. I'm laying claim to it. I have actually been to the sun. I went and claimed it. Sounds hot.

Put a flag. Yep, it was. Put a flag. The ball of gas. How can you put a phone unit? You think it's a ball of gas. Oh. Oh, there was nothing else to that sentence.

No. I mean, yeah, you think it's a ball of gas. Wouldn't the flag burn up? That's assuming that it's hot. Yeah. So, you know, one of the interesting things is, oh, yeah. You can cut this out from the whole thing. No, no, that's staying in it for sure.

So if you put glass. in, if you put glass around anything, and then you shine a light in it. Yeah. What happens? It's the concentration. It's like a light beam. It's the light.

Yeah. It's not the heat from the flashlight. Mm. So, in theory, if our atmosphere, and I'm not saying I believe this. Just to get, just to put this straight. But you could make the argument. that it's the light and not the heat of the sun that warms planet Earth.

And I think that actually might be the case because space is cold from what I'm told. I've heard this. Yes. I feel like this needs to be a completely different podcast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I should not be doing wrestling podcasts. I should be doing pseudoscience podcast. You should do like a Neil deGrasse Tyson podcast.

No, he's too real science. Okay. I need some real good pseudoscience. Like that's my sweet spot. You get two science and they're going to call me out of my crap. But you get me in that sweet spot of somebody who knows like, okay, I kind of know about gravity, but I don't like, you know, understand the gravity when it comes to interplanetary motion and all that kind of stuff. That's my sweet spot.

If you are familiar with some of that stuff, but you don't really know what you're talking about. If you've read one Neil deGrasse Tyson book, but you haven't read anything else, you haven't read another science book in the last 15 years, that's my sweet spot. That's my target audience. Yeah. And then maybe I'll just, if I start a podcast, it would be that. It would be all pseudo-scientific stuff that could be like, oh, that's, you know, that's, something. It's not nothing. But it's like, but anybody who took a real look at it would be like, that's, that's a crock of shit. Brian Science. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't,

no, it doesn't, because I would like it to last longer than my lifetime. I mean, it will. We are, we are perpetuating lots of pseudoscience, which I love. And that's true. Yes. You open up any social media app. You're like, I don't know if that's true. And then you see more of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, boy. We, no. Yeah. We should talk.

Adam, should we talk about social media? I think Elon Musk has said, you know, it's like, okay, you know, free speech, right? I think we can sue some of the social media companies for some of the things that they've done. Because, not because they're allowing people, you don't want to, you don't want to stop free. speech, but your algorithms are promoting these things that are outwardly not true or inciting things that are bad for society. It's certainly an echo chamber. Yeah.

Like if you believe a certain thing, your algorithm is likely going to show you things. Even if you don't. So, like, I'm not on social media much. The only time I go on social media is to look at things, look at things that people post that aren't right for the disciplinary committee. It's like, oh, gosh, now I have to remember my login for Twitter. whatever it is and so, oh, so-and-so posts this or whatever. But what comes up on my thing, because I'm never on it, is just random. Sure. So it's like, so. They haven't figured you out yet.

They haven't figured me out. There's not enough information. So it's like, so the algorithm for me is all these different things, just hoping that I'll stay on, right? And it's just like, oh, which one of these things is you going? Which button of yours? Yeah, which button of mine will will they, can they press? Yeah. And the reality is, is what happens. And this is why I hate whenever I have to go on it is because it does get interesting, right? You go on it and it's like, oh, people, and I'm more like watching it.

Like, people, people watch this and they, they believe, like, and everything on both sides. It's like, this is all, this is all nonsense. And there's real trees out there that are beautiful that you can touch. Like, I can touch that tree. You're going to. See, here, look at this. Like, what are you? Yeah.

Yeah. I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. All of it. Which part? The wrestling part or the pseudoscience part? All of it. Yeah. I need to have you back another time.

And that can be a purely pseudoscience podcast. And hopefully it's not 12 years from now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'll end this conversation with the question, the topic that I talked to everybody about. And I know it's a big one for you as well. Gratitude.

It's something that I practice every day in my life. I wake up, say out loud three things I'm grateful for. It's something I do with my wife and we also do with our kids. What are three things in your life right now, Brian, that you're grateful for? Oh my gosh. I mean, the number one thing is my family, right? I've been so blessed. I've been so blessed to be loved.

Right. And I can't. I think when you really, it's really. a parent, you know, like you said, when you grow up in a household where you feel loved and you know that, not feel loved, you know your love, you feel it, everything, you don't realize that not everybody gets that. And so, um, so the number one thing that I'm grateful for is the love that I have for my family and the love that I get from my family. And that, you know, that includes, you know, not just my wife and my kids, but that's like my mom. I say.

sister, I mean, my mother-in-law, like all those sorts of things. Just to be surrounded by love is such an incredible blessing. I am today, you know, because I do the gratitude practice daily. I typically do it at night. But this morning, I thought, for sure, the trees outside this hotel, I am grateful for those trees. And I'm grateful for this experience right now in the sense of, think connecting with humans we need to do more of right so it's like i i don't when i do podcasts and stuff i'm not necessarily i don't i don't care who who watches it right it's it's hard for me to even ascertain what what happens through those lenses but i do feel like oftentimes we connect as humans when we get these conversations it's one of the rare times when the phones are

away. Yeah. And you're right here. You're present. Yeah. For an hour or more. Yeah. And so, I mean, that's like, I mean, that's what a blessing that is is just to be like, okay, neither of us. And I mean, even just the circumstances of us being here. Neither of us live in Houston. Yeah. And here we are in this, you know, pretty amazing city in that sort of thing. And just talking about wrestling and not wrestling and thing, you know, and what a blessing it is and how grateful I am to like, okay, sometimes, people interview me and they have to talk about what I want to talk about. Like if I just want to bring up pseudoscience or social media, guess what? Like, hey, how grateful am I for that?

Because how many times do people have to, okay, they're in an interview for some sort of job and they have to talk about what the other person wants to talk about? Or you have to explain yourself to people. Like, I didn't have to come in here and justify to you. Like, okay, you should interview me because of this, this, and this. You know what I don't have. I don't have to do anything. How great, how great is that? What, what, what an amazing thing that is, you know? What an amazing thing at, Adam got me a coffee, right? Yes. How was it? It was not good. Um, so it's, but it's not Adam's fault. So my, I don't like coffee. My, um, so, but you might,

did you drink coffee before kids? I've never drank coffee. Oh, I might have a slightly unhealthy addiction to energy drinks, though. So that's what happened to me, because I hate coffee. So when we had our daughter, I got addicted to Celsius. Okay. So I was drinking. They're delicious. Yeah. At one point, I was drinking three Celsius a day.

And I was like, 600 milligrams of caffeine. Yeah, that's a lot. Woo. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, I have to stop. And I'm just getting straight on cold brew. I do cold brew because you can just get it down faster, right? But because I don't like coffee, my basement is Starbucks.

Anything worse than Starbucks is unpalatable. This is worse. to Starbucks. But I still appreciate that Adam went and got it for me. Very kind. Yeah, very kind. Well, I appreciate this conversation. Congratulations on an incredible career and congrats on the new position you have. Yeah, thank you. Commentary. Yeah, I'm hoping to get out of it. You don't want to do it anymore? No, no, I love commentary. I do. I like to do less travel. It's just hard. Sure. But, but, but that said, I'm even grateful for the commentary because I'm learning a new skill and I'm working with great people that I love, like I love going to work, right? Like, it's, it's getting

getting to work and getting home from work is the hard part. That's a, that's a blessing. To be able to enjoy what you do. Yeah. I mean, like, I haven't had a real job. Here's another blessing. Here's another thing to be grateful for. I haven't had a real job since 2001 when I worked at a video store slash tanning salon.

What kind of combination is that? Do you know what the name of the place was? I can't wait. Video tonight, tan, today. Aberdeen, Washington. I don't think it exists anymore. I mean, a lot of... Yeah, both of those things,

people really aren't doing so much anymore, right? I'd have to go clean the tanning beds and then return the VHS movies to the... What was the big rental in in 2001? Oh, who even? I mean, that, you know, my memory for some things is really good. My memory for, like...

Because I've never been a big TV watcher, movie watcher or whatever. right, it was just a job, right? So it's just like, uh, you know, I would say space balls, but I think that's from the 80s. Right. Well, thank you again.

Yeah. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.