Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Buff Bagwell On His Leg Amputation, Sobriety, DDP, One More Match, WCW

Episode Date: January 20, 2026

Buff Bagwell (@Marcbuffbagwell) is a professional wrestler best known for his time in WCW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the DDP Yoga Performance Center in Atlanta, Georgia to discuss what led to his leg needing to be amputated and why he let Maven document the surgery, his battles with addiction and what led to him getting sober, possibly competing in one more match, how DDP helped him turn his life around, having one of the best physiques in wrestling, inventing the Blockbuster, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! CAR GURUS: Buy or sell your next car today with Car Gurus: https://cargurus.com PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv AMERICAN FINANCING: NMLS 182334, nmlsconsumeraccess.org. APR for rates in the 5s start at 6.196% for well qualified borrowers. Call 866-721-3300 for details about credit costs and terms or visit https://Americanfinancing.net/Chris SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Well, Marcus, great to see you. Good to see you, brother. How you feeling? I feel great. I mean, man, I'm blessed. I'm not sure who has their leg amputated. And five months later, says they're blessed. But I am blessed.

It has been crazy what this journey I've been on with this thing. but it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, and I have two, wham, and I love it all. I love that. What went into the decision to allow Maven to film your leg getting amputated? Great question. You know, just to be honest with you, ratings. I felt like it would be the best way to let people know

and we could get a rub off of the YouTube channel. I like Maven a lot, a lot. Funny story about Maven. And this probably is actually the true answer behind what you just said. Chase Brogan, my YouTube producer, called me up and gave me this bill that a thousand other people have gave me. And I said, brother, there's no money in that. There's no money in it. It's very hard to make money, if any, and it just don't work. And he goes, but you're sober now. And it hit me. I went, okay. So I'm listening. So he flies into town and puts a maven video on,

a Maven video on. And I'm looking and I'm watching and I was not impressed at all. And he goes, hey, that guy makes $200,000 a year on YouTube. And I said, well, two things. Number one, I don't believe he makes $200,000 a year. That's number one. and number two, if he does make $200,000 a year, we'll make four. We'll make four.

Because what I'm looking at, if that's $200,000 I'm looking at, then we'll do four. I was wrong on both. He did make that money, and we're not going to double him. Yes, it's some kind of crazy magic in the bottle thing that guy has got. It is. He puts a video out about Waffle Howells. It gets a million views. I put one out that I think personally is a little better,

and it gets 30,000 views. It's crazy. I will say this. I've been doing YouTube for a long time. Nobody does it better than Maven. What is the magic? The magic is his producer, Zach and his YouTube. Have you ever met Zach?

Many times. Zach is wonderful. Zach is the magic behind Maven's YouTube channel. You know what it starts with? It starts with title and thumbnail. So if you can hook them with the title, if you can sell them on that, It's like a headline.

Right. Thousands of videos you're going to see in your YouTube feed, if not more, every single day. What grabs you? What's going to grab you? I lost my leg. It's pretty good one. Pretty good, right? Right.

So, like, how can you sell people on that title and that thumbnail to get them to watch your video? Right. Because you could have the greatest video of all time. You could be solving all of the world's problems. And they can miss it. If your title and thumbnail aren't good. I get it. But then once you're clicked into the video,

Maven's just so engaging. He tells stories in a great way. he's going to hit a million subscribers this year. I know. It's crazy. It's unbelievable. And he's a great guy. He's a great guy.

And I think that comes through in shows as well. But to answer the question of, you know, why did we go to Maven? I think mainly because that's who we modeled, maybe that's who everybody models their YouTube channel after or should. It is now. Or should. Yeah. And that's who we modeled hours after. And there's room for that.

There's room for that. that he gave us all he's the first thing he told me was thumbnail and and a title and but but it's something about the way they do it is a little different and it and it's maybe they've already hooked that audience or something but it's very impressive i'm very impressed by maven and zach and um but the truth my answer to that would be i just really feel like we could have got the word out good with maven being a bigger more view more viewers or subscribers yeah And we would get a little rub from that. So did you reach out to Maven and you said,

here's where I'm at with my leg and I want you to document this? I reached out to Maven and said exactly what I just told you. I said, hey, brother, what do you think about you being the person that breaks the news on me losing my leg and me getting a little rub from you and you help us along the way build my channel? And he goes, absolutely, let's do it. And that's what we did. That video on Maven's channel has well over a million views now. Yes.

Yes. And your story has touched so many people. Yeah. Because, as you know, you rubbed people the wrong way for a long time. Long time. You're a completely different person now, as you sit here in front of me. You know, I'm a completely different person. And I'm not sure exactly.

Yeah, I am sure. Why? God. I believe I was always a pretty good guy. Matter of fact, Marcus Alexander Bagwell in 1991 was a great guy. Everybody in the locker room loved Marcus Alexander Bagwell. And I think through drinking and pills, drinking and drugging, I just think I lost that, Marcus. I really believe that's what happened.

and I believe when the drinking and drugging stopped, Marcus instantly started slowly coming back, and now Marcus is fully back to where when I walk in a room, it lights up again. But not just from eyes I see, it lights up inside of me again, you know? When did addiction start for you? Man, start. I would say the time I feel in my head that it really started

was when I got my own prescription bottles and that would have been that would have been 1998 when I broke my neck. So it started with pain. It started legitimately with, hey man, I'm hurt. My neck is hurting and I would take a pain pill

and it just climbed crazily from there. And then what did it turn into from pain? pills. It stayed pain pills and our concoction is what I call it and it was 99% of every wrestler's concoction and it was a pain pill mixed with a muscle relaxer. It was the two together that was magic to us and it was really magic to us. But I really feel like Lex and I, and he'll probably hate me for bringing his name up, but you know, we were elbow to elbow and all of this. we really did it right though we didn't we wasn't drug addicts we we did it right for a long time

and we we looked different because we worked harder and we felt like we deserved what we were doing but then that went away where we couldn't control that anymore is what happened and then alcohol gets mixed into this too i remember going down the road with lex And I think Lex had already known about this feeling of a withdrawal feeling, but I did not. We were in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and I remember going down the road in the car, and Lex and me always had the air blasting. But Lex is the only guy that frees me out of a car or a room, the only guy. I have froze every person out and ever besides that, but Lex is Mr. Freeze. and I was just pouring sweat in the car

and Lex had a funny look on his face and he said, it's 12 o'clock in the afternoon. And he said, if you take a pill and drink a beer, that'll go away. And I went, it's 12 o'clock, bro,

because that's not what we did. You know, we waited if the day was done, our day was complete, our day was a thousand percent successful in the one percentile is what we were and what we told ourselves. And then we had a little party, and we deserved it.

But I took that beer, and I took those pills at 12 o'clock, and it went away. And, brother, it was a five-year journey, but that's where it started. How were you able to look the way you looked while still battling all that? If I, I'm going to say something that nobody's going to believe, but in the height of of the best I ever looked. It was a case of beer a day, 20 lor tabs, without exaggeration,

15 to 20 lor tabs, and 30 to 35 somas every day of my life. We just, a bodybuilder makes a really good drug addict or a really bad one, however you want to look at that. But it's very organized.

and it was, I had severe sleep apnea and I wouldn't sleep good. So when I woke up in the morning, again, I don't feel good. I deserve this. So I would have my first party. I would take five or ten floor tabs, four to six floor tabs, and eight to ten somas, party one. And I did that kind of party on an empty stomach three times a day. every day.

Sounds like you were in denial for a while. Without a shadow of it out. I think we did it right for so long by just having, you know, logical parties and no DUIs and no arrest. And God, look at me. I'm obviously doing this right. I remember my father in 1999, 1998-1999 area, my mom and dad both knowing I was

really out of control. But they're working for me. I'm in a million-dollar house. I look like a million dollars. Zero problems in my life. Everything was perfect. And my dad, my mom says, you got to talk to him.

My dad said, Judy, we work for him. And he looks, look at everything. What do I say? And so they came to me with the money. I was spending. And I knew they had me there, but I didn't look at it.

I knew if I would have looked at how much, because my mom was my second, she was my, like my secretary, my boss, my mother, everything. If I'd have looked at really what I was spending, I mean, I had two pharmacies on my, on my, you know, in my pocket. So two pharmacies, the amount of pills money I was spending, it was, it was crazy. I had a special calendar for this. How much are we talking? I didn't look at it, man, but it was, you know, I don't even know what to say,

except it was tens of thousands of dollars. A month? A year. Okay. For sure a year. But a lot of them. I mean, one Loretab is $8. You know, one soma is $3.

30 times three, you know, 20 times eight. When you run out and the script went pretty fast. And I had three doctors, but still. you had about 10 days a month in a good month that you had to come out of pocket and it added up. It added up. So at what point did you finally realize I have a problem? Well, I realized I had a problem through all that. I went to rehab several times.

I would go, my first rehab was in 2000, early 2000. You know, right after the WWE thing and all that. I went to rehab. I went for five days. They told me it was a medical detox. That was the word back. There's still a word, but it's not true. It doesn't happen that way.

But that's what they said. And, you know, day eight, I was right back taking pills again and drinking again. So I tried. I did five or six rehabs throughout that journey. But the last rehab before I got sober was 2012. And I did an interview with you right after that, I think. in Ohio. Yes.

And my life was going. I'd got it under wraps. I got a little bit of grip with it, but I wasn't sober. It was the most, it was the closest I got to being sober in 2012. But when I had that car wreck in 2020 and I really had hurt myself that I couldn't fix it, I was angry. I was angry, bro. I was so mad at myself that I couldn't fix this problem.

I'd had other wrecks and knocked my teeth out, but fixed it. I would have a bad injury, but I fixed it. I couldn't fix this one. So I fixed it by fixing me. I got sober. I got sober. How long have you been sober now? Three years and five months.

Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, brother. August of August 22nd. of August 27th of 2022 is my sobriety, sobriety birthday. For people who don't know what happened with your leg, that car accident was kind of what started this, right? Absolutely.

So in 2012, 2020, I had a car wreck where I was under the influence of pills and alcohol, and I drove through a bus station behind Cumberland Mall. It's a bus station's bathroom. men's and women's and nobody was in it. Thank God. And when I'd end that car wreck, my right kneecap exploded. So with it exploding, they 40 surgery, over the next three or four years, 40 surgeries trying to fix it. Infections, in and out, knee replacement.

I think it was 41 surgeries total. And then I was just going to deal with this leg that didn't bend anymore. And they got infected again. And the doctor goes, let's cut it off. And I went, what? I said, well, wait a minute, brother. I go, we did 40-something surgeries. Let's try to fix it one more time.

I can't just cut my leg off. So I went to that appointment to see what it was like to save my leg. And in that appointment is where I stopped the doctor, as he was explaining. He was talking about pulling a skin graft off of this shoulder to close it up. And I said, whoa, what? So it was so devastating what I was hearing? I said, what's the percentages of all that working? And he said, about 20%.

And I said, let's cut it off. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Klinemberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. Time's ticking. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it.

Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Henco. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. How long, like, I'm sure you were pushing off the amputation for a while. Yeah. So how long was that process of, let's just give it another try? It wasn't, it wasn't long. It wasn't long at all because that appointment was quick.

The appointment was quick. Three doctors said cut it off. But the doctor I went to for saving it. They said, all three said, cut it off. I went to still, I was still, I said, I have got to save my leg first. That's what Mark Bagwell does. I'm going to fix this.

I'm going to fix it. If I can't fix it one more time, and then I'll cut it off. At that appointment is when I made full decision that I was cutting my leg off. Were you able to come to peace with that decision? No. Not at all.

I was devastated. I did not. and you cannot see this. I tried to see it, but I just don't think you have the eyes to see this part of it. The truth is, I could have, I should have done this two years earlier. I really believe if it would have been proposed to me two years ago,

I would have thought they were crazy like now. I'd have said, no, no, no, like I did this, time. But if I would have done it, I'd have been two years ahead. So I, this has been with my situation, hear that, with my situation of the leg I had, this is unbelievable good, what happened to me. But you just don't see that when you're going through it. It was amazing seeing you in the hospital back and laughing right after the surgery and you're in the greatest mood of all time. I am again to not you know how bad is every guy right now I want to say you know I dug deep and I and I worked hard the truth is that I was miserable for five years five years every car seat

every toilet seat, every church, restaurant, hotel, airplane, five years. You couldn't bend your leg, right? Could not bend my knee. Everywhere I went, my leg is out. And let me tell you, that's a really uncomfortable set on a toilet. I'm sorry to put that picture in your head, but I'm telling you, that was one of the most devastating seats for me. and it's again it's five years this went on so when I cut my leg off and I didn't quite get it in the hospital

I was a little bit down but not much when I got in the car seat if you watch that part of the video when I got from the wheelchair to the car I was like oh my god this is and I'm missing my leg brother so I remember waking up the next morning from that car ride and I told Stacey, I said, if this was it, if there was no such thing as a prosthetic leg, if this was it, we made the right decision because it was, my life was going to be better. I could feel it with that leg gone, than it just hanging off of me useless. If you weren't battling addiction, you think your knee would have healed up quicker? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It was, I think that whole process may have been a little quicker.

I may have got to cutting it off a little quicker. You'd still be here, though. Yeah, but there's no, there's no alcohol or pill addiction that was going to make that situation worse. But was it hurting the healing process is what I'm asking. Absolutely. I think it prolonged everything. I think I would have just got to the amputation much earlier probably if I would have been real healthy and eating good. I just, it was never going to, it wasn't going to make my leg bend, you know, so with it not making

my leg on a bend, I kept drinking and taking pills because I was trying to make me better mentally or trying to throw a curveball at that leg. I was devastated that I was never going to be able to walk correct again, you know, so I sedated myself and I was under sedation for 20 consecutive years. There wasn't a day that didn't go by for 20 years that I wasn't some percent sedated. Wow. Yeah. 20 years. Was it hard to break free from that? Hardest thing I've ever done in my life. Hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I remember Dallas coming to me and saying, let's go to rehab. And I was sitting, I said, Dallas, it's not going to work. This is, I'm not being negative. I'm just telling you. and I go to tell him this story.

And he goes, I've heard it. I said, well, then you tell me. And he tells it exactly the right way. And I go, that really got me. I'm telling you, that really is what got me. I was like, how does he know that story so good? Because under the influence, I told him that story a thousand times. And I, but it's a true story.

And I said, Dallas, rehab don't help you sleep. I'm telling you there's something else wrong. let me go to another doctor or something. And they just said, no, no, no, it's this, or I'm out of your life, and John is out of your life. And that was the only two people I had in my life at that stage. So I went, and it was the best thing I've ever done in my life. So where did your leg get amputated? It's about right here.

It's about right here. It's up here. It's above the knee. It's called an AKA above the knee amputation. And it's a good, the more leg you have, the more that. This process is better. You know, it helps with walking. It helps with getting the prosthetic on.

This is called, this hard thing is called a socket. And it helps with all of that, the more leg you have. So it is above the knee. And the knee is, the human knee is magic. It's magic, brother. I mean, just do me a favor. Do your leg that's just right here. It's funny.

We take this for granted. Okay. Just do that for, keep doing it for a second. Okay. This don't do that. And that is magic. Buddy, I mean, that's a magical movement. That'll never bend.

It bends, but not like that. It just bends when I can kick it out and it comes right down. I got you. That's $135,000 leg. And it doesn't do this. That one was free. This one came from God. I love you.

But I think people are just, And I hate this. I've been getting this some lately where somebody will tell me a really successful amputation story. And I realize that it's below the knee. And I don't want to belittle their story, but they kind of dog me out. They'll say, man, man, that guy got his leg done. And he played football again and plays basketball. And I said, is it above the knee?

And they're like, I'm not sure. I said, I am, but I don't want to say that. No, so people just don't realize how magical that movement you just did with your leg is. It's a magical God movement, and the prosthetic leg just knee does not do that. It's an unbelievable $135,000 micro-processing knee, but it doesn't do that. I've heard you say you want to wrestle again. Yes. Do you think you'll be able to wrestle?

I know I could wrestle again. another match or two. But if I can't do it where it's ugly, I'm not going to do it. And I'm not sure that's possible. Like, for example, you don't want it to be ugly. I don't want it to be ugly. If it's ugly at all, I'm not going to do it. So, for example, this $135,000 our leg, because of this, there's no way to make steps look good.

You can, you do them. Can't run the ropes. Well, you can run the ropes, but the steps, I actually step, stairs, stairs getting in the ring. Okay, so what if we went to a show where the ramp goes right into the ring? So that would be the first thing you've got to conquer, is getting it or sliding in and getting up fast. But again, if I can't do those things without them being, I'm not going to do it. But I think I think I can. I think I can do it where it's not ugly.

I just don't know yet. So we're definitely going to, in the next couple of months, I'm going to get in the ring and just see what I can do. But I really do think no matter what I will do one match just because that's one of my goals. Wow. Yeah. Have you connected with Zach Gowan?

Several times. Several times. Zach's a great guy, and he's been very helpful with everything. and it's just, it's a different situation all around. One is he's had his leg for years. Yes, since he was a kid. He's 170 pounds. So that's another big deal.

It's, he's able to, he hops. Matter of fact, he don't even need his other leg. He says it's like. He just hops around on the leg. Yeah, he says it's like it hurts him more than anything. Right. So with me, I literally can't get around without it. So, I mean, I'm 200.

Well, without the leg, I'm 210. So that's a lot of weight on one leg. And it makes it a little difficult for me. So it's just a definite, definite thing where Zach is a very, very special, unbelievable athletic person to do. I mean, I watched that last show he had with AW and Rickettsay. I think it was. Unbelievable. Unbelievable.

I mean, hats off. Unbelievable. what a wonderful, wonderful thing to watch and make fun with the leg. And, you know, I really, I reached out to Tommy Dreamer and just said, look, just no pressure. I just don't get out there. But I think I could do something, manage or something and bring some excitement to the TV still. And I had that talking about a month ago. So, you know, I love, I love the business.

And I do think there's room for it in there from our bagwell. And, but at the same time, as far as wrestling goes, I will, I think I can, like I said, I think I can definitely do a match, but I just don't know how ugly. So we're going to have to make sure it's a little positive before we do it. You seem pretty mobile, though. Like when you walked in here, you're walking. Right. So that's only two weeks old without a cane. So two weeks with no cane.

And, but just how weird that was, I didn't believe I was ever going to walk without a cane. because that's how much I needed a cane. I mean, I didn't get it. I was at PT one day, and a guy walked in with my deal with no cane. I said, how long it'd it take you to do that? He said, about a year, and I went, okay, that makes a little sense to me, because I couldn't see doing it ever, ever putting the cane down. And then about another week goes by with PT and everything,

and I realized that the cane was only there because of the hurting inside the socket. It was, all there is is you're a cut-off leg and ace bandage about this big that they call a liner that goes on real tight and it goes inside of that. I said, is there no pillow or comfort thing there? And there's not. It's just that finally gets tough. and it's in the process of my journey, I'm five months in right now,

five months ago I cut my leg off, and it finally started getting tough to where that was a big part of the cane that it didn't hurt. So I've been walking with no cane for about two weeks and getting better and better every day. And you've been documenting this whole journey. Whole journey. So at some point in time soon,

there's going to be a Marcus Bagwell documentary. Yes, we had just started shooting on that. Steel buff is what we're going to call, still buff. And it's just going to document the whole journey of God, sobriety, and my leg. The whole journey of that, because in that order, no matter what order you come up with, for your sobriety, for your career, for your business, for your children, the number one thing should always be God. And in mine, it was God, Stacey, and then myself.

In that order, I was able to put together three years and four months of sobriety. And that's been magical for me in that order. How has your mindset changed so much? Because you here right now is a completely different person than the Marcus I would talked to five years ago, 10 years ago. And I feel that. I just think, kind of like I started this interview with it all happening at once, I think kind of, kind of within a few months, which is all at once,

I became Marcus Alexander Bible again all at once. It was, you know, it was always in there. I was always a good guy and well-mannered and yes, sir, and no ma'am. and all that, but it just, it was just all clouded up, I think, with, with pills and alcohol, and it just got worse and worse. And then when this leg happened, man, it was, it's the worst I got with the, with the alcohol. And then I was just able to, I just couldn't see the light. And I believe to answer your question that I was able to, all those things,

things. God, Stacey, and myself, sobriety, the leg, all of it, the grandchildren, all at one time, it all made sense. And so it seems very quick that this has happened, and it is very quick. But I believe that's because I really am a good person and was for so many years. I just wasn't for the last, you know, five or ten years. Seems like you've been able to now make the distinction between Marcus and buff. And for a long time, you were just buff. That's a perfect, perfect analogy. And it's funny you say that.

I remember the boys, disco inferno in particular, we would be talking and he'd be like, now is that buff or is that Marcus? And we would laugh and joke about it because it was funny. because back then there was a buff and a Marcus. And then somewhere in there that gets those lines get, they get cloudy, you know, they get, they get not so clear. That happens in wrestling. Sure, it definitely does. You live the gimmick.

You live the gimmick. And you don't, I don't, I didn't think I was doing that, but, but obviously I was. And, but I do believe that comes with also the alcohol and the pills just really get it clouded up. It's not just, you know, I'm like, macho man was. He lived his character. I could care less about living my character. I just believe that your character ain't far from who you are anyway. I mean, Buff, when you saw Marcus Alexander Bagel in the wrestling ring,

buff's there too. He just, I'm just a baby face and I'm a good guy. But when you're buff, you've got to turn it up. You know, it's just turned up a little. But I think that gets confused even more with alcohol and pills. I watched Change or Die, and it's fantastic. How difficult was it for you to watch that show? Wow.

So Dallas, it was really difficult. And I knew it would be, I knew it would be difficult. So I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to watch it. So Dallas said, man, man, please watch it. Just watch the whole thing. And also, Stacey, that was at a time that I wouldn't want Stacy to see that Mark Bagwell, you know?

So it wasn't like I was eager to show Stacy and let's look at this wonderful episode of me being so ugly to women. But, you know, but we did. Dallas asked me to watch it and I did. And it was very hard to watch. It was really embarrassing for me. And there was some things when I was watching and I always thought, well, they didn't, well, they didn't show what happened right before that.

You know, it started like that a little bit, you know, little victim statements. And they didn't. But it still was so crazy that person there that was, you know, that was me that I'm watching that is just a completely different person now. It was, uh, when was that filmed? That was, that would have been 2021. in like March, April, May, if I remember correctly. So definitely before you got sober. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Matter of fact, at the end of that is when they, you know, it was like I said, so it was August of 2022 is when I got sober. So just a few months after that was done, taping about a year after, less than a year, 10 months is when Dallas came to me with John and said, you need to go rehab, man, or we're out. Look at your life now. Wow.

I mean, it's, again, this is, this is, this is, this is the part right here that nobody, nobody understands. It's, it's, if, if you could show me three years ago, this right here, I'd have done it sooner, right? But it's because you took accountability. Absolutely. And it sounds like you weren't taking accountability before. That's exactly what it is. you, you just, I blame it all, not all, but the ending of it when it got the worst, which again is what happens, they say you've got to hit rock bottom. My rock bottom was the car wreck, is what I

believe. I really believe that's what really made me see that I should have been dead or I should have been in the hospital, I should have been dead or in prison. One of the others should have happened. And when it didn't happen is what made me go, maybe I do need to get clean here. And then when Dallas came at me and, and John, I thought, you know,

I'm tired of this. I really am tired. Let's try it. We'll try it. And there's a huge aha moment for me at rehab. And at rehab, remember, it wasn't like I didn't want to get clean.

I really couldn't sleep. And I remember going to rehab. And about, the fifth night, I remember waking up and I'd slept through the night. And I went. And nobody had talked to, nobody to share this with. I may never shared this with anybody before, but I remember going, I may be able to get clean. I may be able to get clean when I knew I could sleep. Well, you look great. Dude, I feel great. I really, I really do. it's, you know, I don't know, man. You know, you get to this and you just say, you know,

if I could, if I could sell what I'm doing, I would sell it. I, you know, I don't, I just, the only sales pitch I got would be God. And that's it. That's, the rest of it comes, but it comes after God for me. It comes after God. When you look at old photos of yourself in WCW, do you see you or does that feel like a previous life? Oh, I definitely see me 100%. I mean, I remember like how my training was going. Every picture I see. I remember what I was taking.

I remember what I was doing. Were you taking everything? No, I was not. And, you know, and I hate, I hate, I love this question. I hate how people think. I mean, like even the boys at the time, you know, Well, Bible's taking growth. And my first answer to that is, who cares?

You take the growth, and let's see if you look like this, right? I think the thing that people always discount is the hard work that goes into it. And I hate that. That's unfortunate. They think it's a magic pill. Exactly. And it's not. But the truth is, is I really, I tried growth.

But growth was after I was already looked incredible. We tried, me and Alex tried growth. and it just didn't work for us. We tried to do the eating thing, the eating thing you won't get bigger. I was either lean and kind of skinny looking where I was giant and smooth. And I couldn't find it.

And one day I went, wait a second, you looked incredible with Tess and Deca or Tess and Equipose. What are you doing? And I went right back to that bread and butter and looked like a million bucks. on testosterone and deca, and I would flip back and forth between deca and EQ.

Never took all these other crazy things people took, you know, taken, but because it is the cardio and it is the carbs. Do you feel like you had one of the best physiques in wrestling? I do. I really do, but though I don't think the business does, which kind of upsets me. I remember Flex Magazine came out with an article of the 10 top guys. And I wasn't in it. Who was on the list? I can't remember.

Relax was on the list. Of course. And like the guys that you were, Steiner, maybe. Steiner, Luger, Sting was on it. So it was guys that, you know, I was like, and, and my buddy sent a thing in, he said, the guy, Flex sent back, well, we were talking about a talent. Wow. And I went, whoa.

But they still put my picture back in there anyway, you know. But it just like, when Ray, Rage the remote. was in there. And I love Scott Hall. And Diamond Stud, I thought he looked great, but he really wasn't a body guy after that. He was huge when he was Diamond Stutt. Oh, he was incredible. I loved physique. He was a big jacked up guy. But yeah, so, but I personally feel day in and day out that I had one of the best physiques in the business. Yeah. Who do you think are the top physiques all time in wrestling? Uh, you know, of course, Warrior. To me, my, order it would be my mountain mutt rushmore

would be. Give it to me. It would be Luger. Would be Luger. Luger. Helwig's got to be in there. Lugar Hellwig. It's a warrior. Yeah, warrior. Yeah, right. Sorry about that. Just so everybody knows. Right. Well, you're right. You know, Jim Hellwig, Marietta, Georgia.

But Warrior, Luger, Steiner, for sure. When he was Big Papa Pump. Wow. Dude, it was really impressive. And, you know, and when you walk out with a guy like that, it's not easy, bro. There was a lot of comparisons because you were the two big body guys in WCW.

We were the big boys, right, right? So there's a lot of comparisons of like, have you seen Steiner? But have you seen Buff? Right. And vice versa, right? You know, I'd hear stuff. The boys, of course, loved this. So they, you know, Bagwell's got, he's looking pretty good, Steiner.

And Steiner ate it up, of course, you know? He just, no, he don't. And I'm like, Scotty, I'd rather look like you. Stop it, you know, don't let this mess us up. But he did. He let it mess us up. He let him bother him. It bothered him that.

And the biggest compliment I got was one that he wouldn't even want. And it was, I look like I was clean. You know, what a compliment. Yeah, I was like, thank you. But he don't even want that. You know, he don't want that. He looked like a freak. He was freakzilla.

And I said, Scotty, I'd rather look like you than me, man. Let's clear the air here, you know. So, but it's still, it just bothered him. And the friction started between us because the boys, you know, the boys were just constantly in his ear. And our first argument was something he heard at a gym. And I stopped him. And I said, Scotty, don't go here, man.

This is, this is going to get much worse. Let's just stop it now with our friendship. or let's move on and we continue our friendship, but it didn't last very long because it just, he wouldn't, he couldn't get it out of his head that I was competition with him. So if Stott-Stuyner's number three,

who's that fourth spot? Fourth spot, I don't really help me. You know, you're body. I mean, there's lots of guys, right? So Bobby Lashley, Brock Lesner, Chris Masters, like there's tons of guys. Masters was a good one,

but he looked a little funky for me. but that would be my top three for sure right there. I just, I really, I got one. Four would be Batista. Oh, sure. Batista Triple H, too. And again, H loved him, great body, but he just didn't have that close to that,

wow, you know? I wanted wow. You wanted it like a bodybuilder. Yeah, like a pro bodybuilder is what I wanted. And with Warrior, it was wow. With Lugar, it was wow. Scott Steiner was wow. And I think I had a wow time, not the whole time like they did, but I had a wow, I had wow moments.

Do you think if WCW didn't go under that there's a chance your trajectory keeps going, you at some point become WCW World Champ? 100%. There's not a doubt in my mind. At very young, very early in WCW, I knew that I would be hated. because Missy taught me this. Missy showed me and taught me that you're going to have to work 10 times harder.

And I'm like, why? She goes, because you're good-looking and because you're young. If you don't walk in every single time and shake hands and thank everybody and work hard, you're going to get buried. And she goes, you're going to get buried anyway. And she was right.

I walked in and I was hated. I was hated by all of them. And I made friends not trying to, but I made friends with Sting. I remember Sting coming to my house, played basketball one day. And when he got to my house, both, remember the old school answering machines? Yeah. Both Steiner's were on my answering machine. And Sting was amazed.

He said, did I just hear Robbie? because he called Rick Robbie. Did I hear Robbie and Scotty on your answering machine? I go, yeah. He goes, what happened? I go, we ride motorcycles and stuff together. He goes, what? Because those guys hated my guts.

And we were best friends for a while. I hate my guts now, too. They do? I think they do. I did a video on Robbie, a bad video that I thought was funny, that he took personal. And looking back on it, I think it may have been a bad idea, but I really thought it was just so funny.

I thought everybody knew it anyway. But he got mad about that I heard, and Scotty just, I think he's mad at everybody. Maybe you can reach out to them. It would be the next two people I would reach out to, for sure. I reached out to them over the dark side episode and didn't hear nothing. But we'll see.

How did you create the buff character? That's a good question. I hated my real name. I mean, that's a little harsh. I didn't hate my name. I just didn't want to be called my real name. I think everybody wants a character, a gimmick. You want to be, you know, the flying magician.

You know what I'm saying? The Terminator, you know, you want to be something. And at the time I came in, everybody had a gimmick. And then there's Marcus Alexander Bagwell. I mean, Johnny B. Bad, Mark Mero. He rode me. in the ground over that. He would say,

To Cole Scorpio and Marcus Alexander Bagwell, he rode me so hard that years later he called me and apologized. He said, brother, I'm sorry I did that to you because obviously you found your gimmick and I'm out of the business and you're in it. So congratulations, you know. But how I found it was,

I just wanted something different than Marcus. and when the NWO happened, I felt like it was time to switch my name or add my name or do something different to my name. And Nick Patrick is who came up with it. Nick Patrick, our main event referee. We're on a plane ride coming home from Seattle. And I remember in the back of first class

and in the dark, we hear, what about Buff? I mean, Lugar, are up standing in the aisle on the plane trying to talk and stuff and figure a name out, and we just stopped and went. And the light turns on, it's Nick Patrick, and he goes, what about Buff Bagwell? And we went, are you kidding? That's it.

That's it. And the buff and I'm the stuff and the girl, I don't know where all that came from. I really don't. It just happened, man. Nobody told me that stuff. I just, it just happened. I just, I was a heel, and that's how I acted like a heel.

I just, even that dance I would do, the big, you know, the big dance. I did that in Baltimore and I got to the back and Sting goes, man, that was incredible. All the boys were watching it. It was a house show. And they all, this is when I knew I had something. The whole locker room watched and they were like, back, well, that's incredible. Oh my God, where did you think of that? And they all just were laughing and cutting up over it.

And St. And St. He goes, you got to keep doing that dance. And I go, what dance? He goes, the dance you did. And I go, so Dallas would video every one of his house show matches. And the boys always would make fun of him over the course. I went back and looked at that video and it showed me doing that. And so I watched myself do it and then repeated it and added it into my thing.

Wow. I just went out and was me. And that's what came out, you know. Did you invent the blockbuster? I invented the blockbuster. How'd you come up with it? So glad you asked this. And it's a great question.

And I'm just now going through this personally with seeing a Mark Henry video that he got upset over this. And I said, I knew it was a big deal that the guys are using the blockbuster. That was on my show. It was your show. He got so emotional. that a thing he created in the ring has outlasted him. People are doing it now. And you want to know why he did?

Because it is a big deal. It's a giant deal that the move that I named and created is on television right now. That was 25 plus years ago. That's amazing, bro. And I'm so glad and happy from it. Logan Paul did it just two weeks ago. And 10 texts came through. You know, hey, they use your move.

I mean, I wish they called it the buff blockbuster. But they at least call it the name I created. And this bothers me. I always got to tell the truth. Disco Inferno named it. He asked me if we could call it that. I said, sure, I love it. Let's call it the blockbuster.

So he named it. And, you know, the old school knock your block off, you know. Yeah. It's your head. So it's the blockbuster. But where that came from is I was a huge Rick Rood fan. Rick Rood may have been my favorite wrestler and he had the Rood Awakening

and I hit Scotty Riggs with the Rood Awakening to join the NWO. That's how much I loved the Rood awakening and Rick Rood. But you can't copy it exactly so I said how can I make it different? And right now I want to right now I want to add somebody in that helped me, but nobody did.

It was just me. I mean, I think back up, in a minute, Scotty Riggs helped a lot. But I came up with off the ropes, some type of neckbreaker. And then me and Scotty Riggs in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, before sold out, was in the hotel room,

and we were practicing it on the beds, how to land. And the next day, when we got there, we were going to do it in the ring, practicing it in the ring. that day was swamped with pre-tates. So we never practiced it once. The first time I hit it ever was on live television sold out.

And it was probably the best one ever did. Wow. Yeah. So that's where it came from and just thrilled to death that they still use it. It makes me feel important. It makes me feel that like I did something that counts. It's a big deal for guys to still be. and girls.

Women, girls use it too, and they call the Blockbuster. I just love it that they kept the name. And here's the problem. I don't think they know it's mine, but I do. I know it. You know,

so I wish the world knew it was Buff Bagel's move. But I know that a big part of the people do, and it means a lot to me. True fans know for sure. Yes. Every time I see what, I'm like, ah, yes. It takes me back to being a kid watching WCW.

Absolutely. It takes me back and makes me think like, I'm so glad I thought of that move. What are you most proud of in your wrestling career? I'm most proud of being a five-time world champion with four different guys. I'm pretty sure. I've asked this several times. I think it's never been done. I'm almost positive.

It's never been done in the same company. You may have five championships with four guys, you know, WCW, WWF, EC, you know, but in one company, and a 10-year stand in one company, nobody, nobody has five world titles. And I think that's six, by the way, and you're the guy to bring this to you. You ready? Okay. Me and Rick Steiner had a tag match one night versus the Giant and Scotty. The winner got the tag belts.

well, I turn on Rick, but Rick wins. So shouldn't I have the tag title? I would. Halloween Havoc is the one I came out as Clinton. I need you to get on this for me when you have time. I need to make this legit. Because in the record books, I think, I'm five and four. Five, five guys, five champions, four guys.

I think that's six. Well, think about it. Who won the match? Rick Steiner. And? Marcus Buff Bagwell. Okay. So I think it's six, brother.

You'll be wrong. I do the, it's a great finish, by the way. If you haven't watched that match, watch it. It's incredible. I turn on Rick was Bill Clinton, and I'm out there counting the rest's hand, and Rick keeps kicking out. But then Rick wins and beats us all up. But don't that mean I won?

I would think so. And the only other person I can think of that has won a bunch of tag championships with different partners is Kane. I don't know what the number is off the top of my head. And, well, I never even heard him. I've heard Steamboat. Okay, yeah. So Steamboat supposedly is either right there or more.

But I've never heard of anybody else. So that is the one thing I'm the most proud of, for sure. Very proud of Rookie of the Year. Very proud of Tag Team of the Year. Me and Scorpio are Tag Team of the Year, 92. Rookie of the Year, tag team of the year, I'm very proud of all of them. But the five championships and four guys, it's a big deal. Walk me through this scary moment.

had when you got paralyzed in the ring. Wow. Wow. It was really, it was devastating, bro. So that day, because this is what I thought about when I was laying there, that day, I wrote an $88,000 check for my lot of land that I was building a house on. I got my $85,000 car, and I drove to Columbia, South Carolina and laid paralyzed in the ring. when I was laying there, I thought about all that.

That's why I brought that up. I thought, oh, my God, how are you going to pay for that check? And how are you going to pay your bills and what's going to happen to your house and your motorcycle? You can't ride your motorcycle lever again. These are the things that was flashing by me. But how it went down at the time was the finish was a bulldog. Scotty slides in, hits Rick with a chair, puts a buff on, top, one, two, three, NW.

W. W. It was me and Scott Norton versus Rick Steiner and Lex Lugar. And the finish comes down. Bulldog happens and he misses me. It kind of floats over me. And when he does,

it's live Thursday night thunder. So I'm trying to catch up to him. So when I try to catch up to him to make the move look good, we collide. I collide into his back and my head goes, that way and it snaps that way. As soon as it snaps, I feel nothing and I'm laying down, but it takes a minute to process that you don't quite know, but I remember my first memory I have was that I couldn't breathe. I felt like I was smothering. So, but pretty quick he goes

to turn me over, but when he spins me to turn me over and our eyes meet, I go, I'm paralyzed. and at that junction there's no cheat sheet or anything on what to do, what do you do? You know, I'm paralyzed. What do you do? Live TV. So he covers me. Here comes Scotty, and I'm going a million miles an hour.

Scotty, no, no, no, I'm paralyzed. Don't hit me, don't hit me. So he hits Rick. Rick just kind of throws himself off. And when he does, Scotty just grabs my arm to cover him. and when he grabs my arm to cover him, my arm goes, if I'm paralyzed, one, two, three, who won? So the announcer never won.

The announcers didn't know what the finishes were, which is great. That way they could call it as they saw it, you know. So they had no idea. So they're like, oh, this must be an NWO plot, you know, what are they doing? What they didn't know is I was really injured, you know? So Robbie Heenan goes down, finds out I'm really hurt. By this time, I think they, they, they, B-Role,

the injury and see the injury, but what's happening in the ring live is me laying there with Lex Lugar crying, Rick Steiner crying, and Scott Norton crying. And I am so far away from tears. It's like, I can't explain it, but crying, I just believe in my gut that it was such a fact that I was paralyzed and it was over that I really believe that crying, it was beyond crying. It was no reason to cry. I remember telling Lex,

don't cry, brother. I remember telling Rick, that's okay, don't cry. And then I said, you know, guys, here's a guy that's fully paralyzed, laying on the mat. And I want to ask God, why really bad? But I just had heard a sermon that you shouldn't ask God why. So I said to God, is this really the plan you have for me?

Is this the plan? I didn't say it out loud. What I said out loud to the two men that I was trying to console that were crying over my paralyzed body, I said, hey, guys, I can go to schools just like Christopher Reeves does. and I can talk to schools. Now, brother, you find me a guy that's laying paralyzed that finds some positivity in that to say I'm going to go to schools. And I don't know where that came from except it came from inside my body.

But the moment I said that, Danny Young, our trainer, goes, your left hand is moving. I believe with all in my heart, and I didn't know this at the time. I know it now when I tell it that I believe in my heart that because I was positive about the situation, I believe God gave me my body back. That's what I believe, all my heart. And I didn't know it at the time, but that's what I know now. That's what I believe now. And then I can't look up because I'm paralyzed, but I started moving my hand.

and he said, it's still moving. I said, okay. So I remember it feeling like hot water coming up. And then hot water on this leg, and then hot water on this leg, hot water this arm. But if you watch close on the camera that's going on, you'll see me doing this. And I go, at one junction, I go. And what I was doing is I was feeling if I could feel my chest and I couldn't. I couldn't feel it.

So I just put my hand back down. And by then, it's bored. tape, tape, tape for the next three hours. And I can move my fingers and I can move my toes and I don't stop moving them. We get to the hospital and three hours go by with cats scans and MRIs. And the doctor walks in and goes, sit up. And I go, do what? So they start taking the tape off and I slowly start sitting up and realize I am perfectly normal.

And I said, what happened? He goes, you bruised your spinal cord. And I go, what's that mean? He goes, when you broke your neck at 3, cervical disc 3, hit your cord, but it didn't sever it. It bruised. And when the human body spinal cord bruises, when it bruises, you're paralyzed. And when the swelling goes down, you can move again. And I was like, thank God.

So directly in the hospital because if I get shoved, if I fall, it's against my cord. So instead of it getting severed, that it go in, pull my hip out and they pull that out of your spine and put your hip in place. I'm fuse at three, four, and six, seven. So two plates and eight screws. And they go right through here. They move your windpipe over. They do all that work. And they put your windpipe back.

and sell you up. It's crazy. That's wild. I lost 50 pounds and I created the top hat and the overalls because I needed something else. I felt. I wanted to cover up because I lost 50 pounds. So I had the NW shirt on and I wore the overalls. And then when I got back into shape, I couldn't get out of those overalls fast enough. How long were you back in the ring after that? I was back in the ring in 10 months. I couldn't train for three months. You've got to let everything heal naturally. So no testosterone, no deca, no equipoise, no nothing, no weight training.

Three months and one day, everything. Test, deca, and training happened. And I got up to 263. And then I learned how to get lean. A buddy of mine named Mark Wallace taught me how to. get lean and i want him 263 to a really really really good 228 a really good 228 and buff bagel was was made it's amazing that in that moment you had made peace with your career being over laying in the ring paralyzed you're like if this is it this is it it was the only reason the only reason i can say that is

because it was over. I mean, what am I going to do? Are you going to complain? Are you going to be mad at God? I think you could have right there. It could have easily got mad at God and complained. But that's not, that wasn't in my heart. But at that junction, it was over. It was over. It was completely over. And I was really angry about it. What a place you're in right now in life. It's amazing. It is. It is. I have A personal relationship with my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, I have the best fiancé in the world that has three daughters and 12 grandchildren that I love so much. And I have Marcus Alexander back in my life. those three things

and the word I told you earlier is I'm giddy I'm giddy I wake up and just kind of chuckle in the morning like is this is happening to me so I'm just I'm at a place that I'm out a place in life Chris that

I think even people watching the only answer is God it's the I mean I think it's Stacy and his sobriety too but the main anchor is it's God. It's got to be God to see what people are seeing. I mean, I don't post any of the stuff y'all see. I have no idea what's posted,

but I hear when they tell me, like singing in church and things with me and Stacey. I thought, that's great, yeah, fantastic. You know, but she does all that stuff. I don't do that. I'm just being me and having a, blast doing it. What's great seeing you like that.

Thank you, man. Thank you for coming back on the show. I've always loved you. You've always been in my corner, always, and I've always really highly respected you. So just thank you so much for always, you know, seeing the Marcus Alexander Bagel. I appreciate you. Thank you, brother. I'll ask you the question I ask everybody at the end.

I think I asked you this when you were on three-ish years ago. What are three things you're grateful for? right now. God in this order. God, Stacey, and my new leg, those three in that order. I love it. Thank you, brother. Thanks again. Thank you. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock?

I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie.

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