Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Building The Biggest Illegal Poker Ring In The World With "Molly's Game" Inspiration Molly Bloom

Episode Date: April 14, 2022

Molly Bloom (@immollybloom) is an inspirational keynote speaker, entrepreneur, podcaster and bestselling author of Molly’s Game. She is best known for her memoir, Molly’s Game, which was adapted into an award-winning film of the same name by Aaron Sorkin. Bloom’s memoir chronicles her journey from college student to LA waitress to building and operating the largest and most notorious private poker game in the world. Her games featured hundreds of millions of dollars and players like Leonardo DiCaprio, Tobey Maguire, A-Rod, Matt Damon and Ben Affleck. She joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about her amazing story, becoming a mother for the first time, how she built up her poker game in Los Angeles and New York, what she learned from it, the importance of resilience, her new podcast about Olympic scandals called "Torched" and much more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet CVV CLIPS: youtube.com/CVVCLIPS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. All right, here we go, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris VanV. Thank you so much for being with us on this one. And if you've been listening to the show for a while, or if you've been subscribed on YouTube,

you know that I'm a big movie guy. And I've been so fortunate to be able to talk to a lot of the actors and directors behind some of our favorite films. It's not that often, though, that you get to talk to the person who the movie was based on. The 2017 film Molly's game is based on Molly Bloom, who was an Olympic-level skier, that through a series of different events that we'll talk about during this conversation, started running the most exclusive celebrity-filled poker games in the world, and then became an FBI target.

We'll get into that, too. but when we talk about these being exclusive celebrity-filled games, we're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars at play. And people sit in the table like Leonardo DiCaprio, Toby McGuire, Arod, Matt Damon, Ben Affleck, just to name a few. The book, also called Molly's Game, is fascinating. The movie, which was written and directed by Aaron Sorkin,

and was nominated for an Oscar, by the way. it's incredible, but Molly herself is just amazing. And what a story. Give her a follow on social media. She's at I'm Molly Bloom. You can find me at Chris Van Fleet and take a screenshot. Tag us. Let us know what you think of this episode.

Let us know that you're listening. And if you like it, please consider subscribing to the show wherever you're listening right now. Also subscribe to Molly's podcast called Torched, which takes a deep dive into a, Olympic scandals. I just are listening. I love it. I know that you'll love it as well.

Our fan of the week is Kate Millar 44. She says great. One of the first podcasts I ever listen into, and I always listen to it now. It's great as always. Well, thank you so much for that, Kate. I read one review on every single episode from

Apple Podcasts. It's my way to say thank you. Thank you for being on this journey with me. And it's also my way to say, hey, if I'm reading these reviews in every episode, maybe you'll want to leave one. So if you're listening on your iPhone, go in there, leave the five stars, leave a review, and I'll shout you out on the show. And where my Spotify people at? Where am I Spotify people at? They have ratings on there now. So it'd be awesome if you go in there and click those stars in there as well. All right, let's dive into this.

Such a great conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome, Molly Bloom. Molly, I think we have to start off with a huge congratulations. or a mom. I am a mom. Thank you. Does this feel like, you know, the, you've lived a lot of lives, I feel like, and we're going to get into that, you know, during this conversation. Does this certainly feel like the, the biggest responsibility, the biggest job that you've had? Unquestionably. But in the best way, you know, it's such a, yeah, it's such a transformational experience because I've, you know, up until this point, it's just been, you're a soul. And it's about the ambition and the next thing. And, you know, you do that work alone and

and you exercise discipline and it's kind of lonely. And then you get there and you're like, okay, here it is. And, you know, being a mom is something completely different. It's about something so much bigger than you. And, you know, you're sharing it with this little creature and just super fulfilling. It really changes you. I'm so curious. How do you describe your yourself. Like when you go to a party and someone's like, oh, what do you, what do you do? Who are you? What's your story? Where does that begin when you're telling the story? It's like my least favorite question. It's so difficult to to sum up or, you know, and even when people say, what do you do for a living now? I'm like, well, you know, it's hard to explain. But so, you know,

I guess it just depends on how in depth we get in the conversation. If it's someone on an airplane, what do you do? I'm a writer. Because I guess that was the last sort of big thing I did. Or I do a lot of speaking. I'm on the speaking tour. I generally don't go really back into it because it's probably just a much longer answer than they bargained for.

Or do you go? Have you heard of Aaron Sorkin? Okay, great. Okay. This is going to be a lot easier now. Yeah. I mean, you know, it would be, it's such a convenient thing to be like, oh, have you seen the movie Molly's game? But there's also really no way to pull it off without sounding like it's a jerk, you know, so. Have you seen Molly's game? Well, I'm Molly. It's nice to be sure. Right. That's the efficient answer. But I haven't quite figured out how to say that without feeling super pretentious.

I think that so much of our lives is like about the identities that we hold for ourselves, right? And for you, for so long, your identity was that you were an athlete, right? Yeah, that was, that was the early life identity. And then I was, I feel like my identity was, I'm going to law school. And then it was, I run this poker game. But I couldn't, but that one was challenging because. there are, you know, there were certain crowds and certain people that I was around that I,

that couldn't be the answer. You know, my boyfriend's family, for instance, or, you know, so that, the answer was I have an event planning company, which I did. That was what I incorporated as. But, you know, it would just, Chris, it would just be nice if I could just have a simple answer to these questions. I feel like it can't be that hard, you know, and, but, you know, that's just not the way it's gone. I just feel like though at the end of the day, you know, when people ask that, I hate that question too. What do you do for a living? I hate that question. What do you say? Oh my gosh. What forces you in a box, right? I am just this one thing. And the reality is we're so many different things. I start with, well, I'm a television host. Like, oh, what show do you host?

Well, I host this show that maybe you haven't seen, but I also have traveled the world and interviewed like every celebrity. And if you listen to podcasts, you can find my podcast and have a YouTube channel. And then like, you know, not unlike your story, it starts to divulge into all these different things. And then you get, I think, a more full picture of who the person actually is. Yeah. But I think in today's day, today, I think most people have, you know, sort of like not, I don't think, I mean, I think a lot of people don't have that simple answer. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like our parents' generation of like, I am an accountant or I am a plumber or whatever it happens to be. You're now a podcaster too, so you can add that to the resume.

Yes. And I think that is actually what I'm enjoying most in my career is telling other people's stories. I'm really deriving a lot of enjoyment and value from that. I think that there's also an interesting part of your story of like, you know, you talk about you were going from being. an athlete to the steps after that. I think one of the big things, I live in Los Angeles now, and so you can relate to this.

One of the big things is like moving to Los Angeles is an identity for a lot of people. No question. It becomes their identity. I think about that all the time whenever I'm in L.A. And I think I experienced that too. All of a sudden, you're a part of this thing. And you see it happen.

Do you think about what life would look like if you didn't get injured on the ski slopes? I try not to, but it's unavoidable because I think it's probably the question I get asked the most. How would your life be different if? What would you do differently if you could? I mean, that's, I get asked that almost every single time I'm on one stage. And there's really, it's an impossible question. Well, yeah, I mean, but look, everybody has a what-ifs in their life. But it leads us to like exactly where we are right now sitting in these chairs and having this conversation.

Right. Do you think about like when you first moved to L.A., what was the goal and the dream? Because people moved to L.A. with like, I am going to be this or I am going to do this. Mine was so simple, not interesting and not ambitious. I literally wanted, I was, the plan was to take. a year off in between undergrad and law school. And I just wanted to be warm because I had just retired from the ski team. And when you're skiing at that level, you don't even have summers.

You're going to a place either in the southern hemisphere or up on some glacier to train. And you spend your whole life freezing your butt off. And I just said, man, I just want to go somewhere where it's warm all year. And I can just be a kid. And then I'll and then I'll dive back. to the serious, you know, disciplined place that I've always been. Take me into like that very first poker game. What was your reaction?

What did you think that this would become? Yeah. So, I mean, I knew that my boss hung out with celebrities and billionaires. And so I kind of had a sense that the people that were going to be playing at the game, were going to be, you know, I guess you could call them, like, what a big deal, whatever. And, and, but I just really had no idea who was going to walk into the room and, and, and how that was going to feel. And I, you know, I always tell the story just to show the naivete. I went home and I was like, Googling, what kind of music to poker players like to listen to and

what do they eat and, and, you know, made this super embarrassing playlist. songs like the gambler on it and went to Gelson's and got a cheese plate and had no idea that Leonardo DiCaprio and Toby McGuire were going to be playing poker there. And beyond that, you know, politicians that are household names and heads of movie studios and heads of investment banks and, you know, just these people who yield so much influence on the world. And I definitely had a moment of feeling completely. mortified and out of my depths. But as the night went on, I was fascinated because it's a dream to be a fly on the wall in these rooms to have access to this kind of information. And I've always been

so curious and love to learn about all these, you know, different things, even if they didn't have a specific purpose in my life. And so just being, having that access was so compelling. So if we take this back a step, you moved to L.A., you get a job as a server. And you basically say it in the book, you weren't the best server, but you were really good at reading people and figuring things out. Oh, it's terrible. My bosses told me I was the worst waitress they'd ever seen and got fired. So how did that springboard into you becoming basically someone's personal assistant,

and then you're now getting into these rooms where these huge poker games were being played? Yeah. So, I mean, my boss, I think so pity on me, I was out of money and a terrible waitress. And he was like, just, you can come be a personal assistant, my personal, you know, be an executive assistant at the office because they had this big real estate development fund. And I started working for them. And then he said, you know, you're going to serve drinks in my poker game tomorrow night. And I didn't think it would change my life. I didn't think it was going to be a life changing incident, but it surely was. And as. as the year went on and I spent more time at these games, I saw this as a gigantic opportunity to make a lot of money to build this incredible network and to learn about business and entrepreneurship and tech and finance and Hollywood and from the mouth of the masters, really. And so I, you know, I was, I was really just intrigued. And to be honest, I was also primed for a rebellion. I had put everything I had into skiing and into school. And it just wasn't, you know,

it didn't seem like it had gone anywhere. You know, I literally like skied over a tiny stick at this Olympic qualifier event and lost my ski. And, you know, so, and my brothers were doing big, big things in the world. And I just, I was ready, I think, for, for an, a non-conventional path because I had really pursued this ultra-conventional path in a way that most kids don't. You know, I'd given up my social life and, you know, I was in the library on

Saturday nights trying to like get my homework done so I could go train. And so going to Los Angeles and seeing this world of money doesn't matter and, you know, people betting $100,000 on a hand. I mean, at that time, and it got much, much bigger. But, you know, it was all very, it was all very compelling. What do you think is the biggest lesson that you learned when you started getting into the world of poker? About myself, about business, about poker. I mean, you know, there's. Yeah, I'd say about yourself.

So it really has nothing to do with the poker, the lesson, the biggest lesson. I learned about myself in those early days. And what I've learned is that I was, that I could be an entrepreneur. that really my skill set was relating to people, thinking fast on my feet, problem solving, finding better ways to do things. And that that was really what I was good at. That's what came naturally to me. It wasn't school necessarily.

I had to work really hard in school. I did very well, but I had to work really hard. it wasn't sports you know after my that back surgery had at 12 years old again the only reason I got where I got is because I outworked people it was not it was no longer a natural inclination and and so you know here was this thing that I could apply this work ethic that I had developed to and I was good at it and it came naturally and so that was really compelling and at that time And this was kind of early days of before being an entrepreneur was actually kind of a thing. And so I didn't know that that I could expand that skill set and kind of do my do something outside

of the game. I thought like this was the perfect intersection and and that, you know, that I need to stick around and capitalize on that. Yeah. And Molly, I feel like there's a big lesson that comes from poker. That's a lot of what you're talking about here. playing the cards that you're dealt yeah metaphorically speaking for sure yeah seriously it's like it's about what you have in front of you and what can you do with what you have in front of you no question

yeah at what point along the journey did you start to realize that maybe what you were doing wasn't quite above board the first indication was um you know i had my money at at one of the banks in Beverly Hills that most of the players had their money at. And I walked in one day and they in a very stern manner said, we're closing your accounts. We're going to walk you down to your safety deposit box. You're going to clear up the contents. There's a check for the amount. And you're not to come back to this bank. Wow. And what did that stem from? You know, it's a small town, I guess, in some ways. And I was depositing these checks. that were from these people and would actually say poker account on it.

And I guess they just felt that what I was doing was a liability to the bank, but it was a terrifying moment. You know, I was 20, my early 20s and I had been a rule follower. And, you know, but before I started running my own games, I had attorneys and I had them analyze the federal statutes and the laws and come up with a plan for how. how I could do this legally. So, you know, I kind of thought that I was walking that line. But after getting walked out of the bank like that, there was a, there was an undeniable,

you know, sort of like indication that this wasn't above bar. Yeah. Well, where do you go from there? To another bank. Do you not then worry that the other bank's going to do the exact same thing? Well, I mean, I think then you go to. a big national bank where it's not such a sort of small town thing. Sure.

Wow. And then, you know, I guess if we fast forward a little bit from there, like, then the feds get involved, like the FBI, like ends up, like this is kind of where it completely goes downhill. Yeah, eight years later. Yeah. Oh, it's that long. Oh, wow.

Yeah. So how long from start to finish were you running these games? I mean from like that when I actually ran my own games or when I was a waitress. Let's say from like the very beginning to the very end. Yeah, eight or nine years. Wow. That's a long time.

And I would imagine that when you're doing it for that long, you're going, well, I've done it for this long with no issues. Everything should be fine. Oh, absolutely. You start to, and you see the type of people who are also having games at their house and running their own games. And these are people that are associated with publicly traded companies. And you know, you're, you just, you just think that it's, it's fine.

It's a poker game. Right. Maybe in the background, if you can hear. Oh, yeah. Hello. So was it like a huge surprise when everything came to a screeching halt? Yes and no. I was running these games in L.A.

and then I expanded to New York. And I had, I was contacted by the Italian, like a family from the Italian mob. And there was just all these things happening that seemed, that made it really clear that where this thing was headed. And then, you know, that the Fed sees my eyes. assets. I literally logged into my account and my account balance was negative $9,99,000.99. And at that point, and I had been assaulted and threatened and had someone put a gun in my mouth when I refused to do business with with those mobsters that came to me. And so, and then I just went away. You know, that was 2011. And the feds took all my money and they said, they literally said,

your property, unlike your personhood, doesn't have the presumption of innocence. And unless you can come and improve to us that you're making your money legally, we're going to, you know, we're taking it. And by that point, I wasn't making it legally. I had made a choice to take a raid. And, and that was on me and that was what made it illegal. And so I couldn't do that. And, you know, the last thing they said to my attorney is she's not a target of our investigation. If she is, we'll let you know, we'll bring her in. So I went away and just thought, okay, so, you know, that sucks. I have no money now.

You know, the tabloids were telling the story because of this other situation in L.A. And so for two years, I just tried to put my life back together. I was living with my mom and my grandmother at 9,000 feet in the mountains. I moved back to L.A. finally. me about two years to get a job. When I moved back to LA finally and, and, you know, moved into this modest little small apartment in West Hollywood. And seven days after I moved into that apartment, I got arrested in the middle of the night by 17 FBI agents holding machine guns. And they put this piece of paper in front of me that said, United States of America versus Molly Bloom.

So that scene in the movies, like pretty much how it unfolded in real life. Yeah, for sure. Wow. How much of the movie as a percentage would you say is like in line with what actually happened? Obviously, you changed some of the names, but how much would you say is? Oh, 95%. Wow. I mean, I was, I was actually shocked at how much Aaron stuck to the real details and didn't do what you always, what you generally see writers do and, you know, take these creative liberties and tell the story in a way that that is. a fusion of reality in Hollywood. You know,

Aaron certainly made us all smarter and funnier than we are in real life. And, and, you know, there were certain parts that he took those creative liberties with, like, like the lawyer in the, in the arraignment,

deciding whether he's going to represent me or not. I mean, the real attorney was Jim Walden and, and he said yes in the office, you know? But for the most part, all the stories about the players and the events that happened and, you know, all that stuff is how it really went down. How do you make the decision to write a book that you know when it comes out could really piss a lot of people off?

My life was ruined. You know, I was after, so I got arrested. What the feds really wanted for me was for me to be a competent. influential informant and wear wire and find out information on these guys, particularly the politicians and the people on Wall Street. And I just, you know, I didn't feel like that was something I could do and and feel right about it because I really felt like I was the one that had made these choices and I needed to deal with that. And so, I mean, everyone thought I was going to go to prison for at least a small amount of time and or some some amount of time. And I just had this really great attorney who had

great relationships and knew how to handle this and advised me in the right way on what to do during that year in between the arraignment and sentencing. You know, I did community service. I went to rehab because drugs and alcohol are part of my story. I was really contrite. You know, I really, I walked the line. And a lot of people in my indictment didn't. They were still sitting courtside at the at the next games. And so, you know, we played it right. And I didn't have to go to jail.

But then I found myself in this situation where I was 35 years old, millions and millions of dollars in debt, a convicted felon, pretty much a social pariah, network destroyed. And what do I do? do. And the tabloids are telling this really super reductive tale of this, you know, girl who was wearing tight skirts and serving drinks at poker games. And, you know, I had built a business that was very successful for many years. And there were a lot of moving parts.

And I pretty much managed it all on my own. I was extending credit. I was the bank for these games. I was the recruitment arm. I had figured out how to innovate and really disrupt the market in both L.A. and New York for these games. That was in my 20s. You can say, you know, I made a lot of mistakes, but I also learned a lot about business. And I really thought that, you know, I should have a future. And so I had to take control of the narrative. Yeah.

Otherwise, nothing was going to happen. You know, I was going to stay living in the mountains with my mom and my grandma. And that's not an option. I feel like so much of your story is about just figuring it out, like being thrown into a situation and figuring it out. And like the same can be said about writing a book. Like not everybody, I guess anybody can write a book. Not everybody can write a good book, though. Yeah.

Well, I mean, you know, the one thing that I have. that I've found in the second chapter of because I've gotten to speak all over the world like places in Africa that you can't even get a visa for you know and and and and Kansas city like literally like every part of the world and what I found is that damn humans have crazy stories you know and and everybody gets met with that dark night of the soul and goes through insane things like you look at an audience may look so normal or whatever. And they'll come up to me after I speak and tell me the craziest stories. And we're so primed to want to hear about the human experience. And so I think understanding what your story is, how to tell that and how it connects you to the world is just

a really important exercise for anyone and has obviously, obviously saved my life. When you go to speak, what's the title they put on your speaking? It depends. You know, I have, I have pre-calls with these companies. In the beginning, it was just the story. But now, you know, you can tease out different elements. You can talk about risk. You can talk about fear. You can talk about, you know, adept decision-making, the customer experience, how to build a brand, how to innovate. There's all these different aspects. You can tease out of the story and apply to this particular company. So it just depends. Yeah. How much did your life change? when your book got option for a movie? Didn't change when it got option for a movie. So I wrote the book and again, you're just naive. You're like, oh, the story has been in the New York Post and all the tabloids.

Like every publisher is going to want this. They're going to like they're going to eat it up. I'm going to make millions of dollars and, you know, that's going to be that. Sure. That was not the case at all. I got turned down by every publisher except for one. You know, the publishers, most of them were like, look, if you're willing to tell the stories and name the names, like, this is a different conversation. But I just, I wasn't willing to do that.

And so the way I handled that was if people had already talked about being part of this game, if they had already been outed, if their names had already been associated, then that was fair game. But I wasn't going to tell any stories that were going to ruin anyone's life. and I wasn't going to out anyone who hadn't been out of it. So that was kind of my compromise. And, you know, the other thing is, is like I also felt like I really arduously protected people when the feds wanted names. And, you know, so like it had to have a moral agreement for me. Like, I had to feel like I was sticking to who I was and what I believed in, but also advocating for myself and not just going away, you know, and not honoring my story. So it was a, it was, it was,

there was some difficult, you know, sort of moral calculus to figure out. So I went and, you know, I wrote this book and it was a small little advance and it didn't fly off the shelves like I thought it would. And then I was, you know, the story was still what I thought was the monetizable asset. So then I had to take it a step further and take it to Hollywood. And no one wanted to make this movie. First of all, most people were really afraid of the powerful people in D.C. Hollywood and the billionaires that were trying to not get that. this movie made. And then this was still at a time where people or studios were like, we can't sell a female led drama about gambling. Nobody wants to see that movie,

you know, and those are the conversations that they were having in the room. I don't, where's the market for this? And, you know, but survival mode is a whole different beast. And when you've lost everything and you're fearless and you have an idea of what will get, you out of that. There's really nothing that could have stopped me. How did you get Aaron Sorkin to say hello or to say, you know, I'm in? Yeah. You know, it's, look, if you're going to make a movie in Hollywood, like he's the guy you want to write your movie. For sure. And that's, that's what I had decided. I had this short list of people who, you know, you look at their track record and you're like, this person could could really make this work. And, and so,

Aaron was at the top of the list for me because he was also my favorite writer and is my favorite writer. And so I just really started to relentlessly try to get a meeting with him. So you didn't know him before this? No, I didn't know. And, you know, look, I did my research. I watched all his movies. I watched his interviews. I understood what resonated with him. And I was able to tell my story kind of in that way. But when when you go into me with a creative person. It's either going to resonate or not. So it's not like it was something I did that was so great to close the deal. It was just that he loved, he loved the story. And so, you know, he decided to write it and make it as directorial debut. And there were bumps along the way.

He wanted to work with this, you know, producer that he generally worked with. And I didn't like this producer at all. I didn't like what he stood for. And, And I was like, it's a non-starter for me. Because, you know, I had kind of lost myself during those games and really started to compromise my values and what I thought. And I ended up in a really dark place. And so moving forward, even though I had nothing, I wasn't going to do that anymore. And so, you know, that was a challenge.

And to Aaron's credit, he said, I'm with you. And then it was at Sony Studios. And Kim John Un hacked Sony Studios database. And the chairwoman, Amy Pascal, had to step down. And she was really the one that was in love with the movie. And the new chairman was like not so into it. And so we had to find other distributors. And, you know, it wasn't just like Aaron signed on and everything was smooth sailing because

it just never is. Never. Never. But it got made and I loved it and it performed well and it really gave me. And I got nominated for an Oscar. It was nominated for an Oscar. What was your favorite Aaron Sorkin work? Obviously other than this.

I loved the story he told him Moneyball. I really did. I think the social network was probably my favorite movie of his. I loved the West Wing. I haven't like, like I like, I like I like sports and I just I like his writing a lot. Few good men. You know, he just.

Yeah, if you go down the list, like everything he touches so good. Everything he touches. He just, the man can tell a story. Yeah. Then when they tell you that you're going to be played by an actress and not just any actress, but played by Jessica Chastain, you must be first going, oh, my God, that's amazing. But then isn't there like a part of you that's like scared of like, oh, how are they going to play me?

And their version of me may be different from who I actually am. I thought up until I sat in that movie theater to see Molley's Game for the first time, I thought I had really separated myself personally from the project. I was like, this is business. You need to not be personal about this. that people don't like the story, if they don't like you, if it doesn't, if you don't feel portrayed, right? Like, that doesn't matter. This is, this is, this is, we're going to be strategic about this and this is business. And even to the point that when the producers and Aaron said, the movie's done,

and you should sit in a room by yourself and watch this. I was like, no, I'm going to go to the premiere with everyone else and watch this movie. And then I had like a full mental breakdown in the movie I was like, what if they hate me? What if it's not good? Like, you know, like it's, it's, sometimes things are just too freaking big to separate yourself from emotionally. And, and luckily, it's opened with that sports scene and it was so dynamic. And I was like, okay, this is really good. But yeah, I was terrified. But how much time did you spend with Jessica or did she spend with you to figure out like the nuances of how you walk and how you talk and all these other things? You know, I spent just a couple hours, a couple times with Jessica, and she's so immensely talented.

But the person I spent a lot of time with is Aaron. And so Aaron writes the dialogue, and he directs. And so I think he really, you know, because so many people see the movie and they're like, you and Jessica sounds just like you and her mannerisms and everything. And that's definitely a huge credit to her, but it's also credit to Aaron and how much time we spent together and how he wrote the character. and how he envisioned the character. Like, I just feel like if someone were to make a movie and, like, play me, I'd be like, oh, my gosh, I don't really laugh like that or I don't walk like that.

Come on. No, it's even worse than that because it's like, you know, how are you supposed to compare to like the Aaron Sorconne dialogue and the Jessica Chastain delivery? Like, I'm never going to be that funny and that smart, you know? So I'm just rude. Like, everyone thinks that, you know, that you're supposed to be that. character, but. Okay, so did life change a lot after that movie came out? It did. Life changed a lot. What would you say is the biggest change between before that came out and now? I mean, I went from

people thinking that I, listen, I don't know what people were thinking, but I felt that people, I felt like people, I'd walk into a room and they'd whisper, you know, and it, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, And then people are like, oh my God, your story is so great and you've been through so much. And, you know, it really painted a different picture. And then I had a ton of opportunities come my way and a ton of opportunities to speak about making mistakes and being able to come back from it and hope and redemption and, you know, getting sober. And just all these different things that I had been through now became this plethora. platform to to connect with people and to share these positive messages and these inspirational messages and you know that's just magic yeah with all the networking you did when you were in

Hollywood how much of that came back around when you were I guess back in Hollywood making a movie oh none I had to were they like we don't want to talk to you at all yeah no I had to come completely start over and if anything those people a lot of them were trying to run interference on the project. Understandably so. They didn't want themselves represented in this movie and they didn't know that both Aaron and I were committed to not gossiping and not naming names. And, you know, I would hope they know by then that that's not what I was about. But, you know, people are just super risk-averse. So, you know, I was a complete, I had to completely start over.

And what was the decision to name Player X just Player X? Player X was a composite of many of the different players that I had told Aaron about. And listen, neither Aaron nor I are interested in taking people down or making them look terrible. You know, it's like, this is a movie. Yeah. Look, I think we've all like had stumbles along the way. We've all had failures. Some like yours, maybe a little bit more public than other people.

people's. What do you think someone that's going through something right now? What's like one piece of advice you can give them to try to get through? It's going to come down to how well you can manage your mind through it. Because when we fail, I can speak from my experience and from a lot of the stories that I've heard from other people, a lot of people that I work with that are going through it. The mind goes into a pretty dark place. And fear comes in and doubt comes in and this, this, like, thought that everyone is looking at you and pointing fingers at you and you just kind of want to crawl in a hole, you know, and you're afraid to get back out and do it. And really, none of that stuff matters. And you can completely wipe the slate clean

and get back in the game and go even bigger. But what it's going to do is, depend on is how well you can manage your own mind, how disciplined you can be with your thoughts and how much you can just sit with all that discomfort and just get into action anyway. So, you know, for me, that was, that was everything, that how well I could recalibrate with my mind. And then I think meditation and mindfulness are really good places to start. You know, there's, there's real science behind meditation and mindfulness. and this ability to sort of change brain states and to increase activity in the in the cortex, which is responsible for creative thinking and problem solving and decrease activity in the amygdala,

which is the fear center. I mean, these things aren't just woo-woo practices, you know? So just getting into a, what I did is I got into a deep study of how to manage the mind. And I looked at psychology and Buddhism and meditation and neuroscience. And that was a really critical piece. We mentioned your podcast earlier. It's called Torched. Yeah.

What's been the thing you've enjoyed the most about these long form conversations you've been having? Yeah. So Torch is a podcast about Olympic scandals and controversies. And it's, you know, it's a combination of interview, storytelling, archival footage. And I'm always fascinated with these people that have this, this super ambitious mind and like path in life and what happens. And, you know, also understand.

And then the other piece of that is when people do make mistakes, understanding why, how this happened. or when they, you know, or when things, you know, institutions make mistakes. Why did this happen? Can we understand this instead of just completely vilifying and pointing fingers and deciding, oh, now you're bad and you're good and having no mind for nuance? Can we seek to understand? You know?

Which episode should we start with? I just, I love the stories we're telling here. I mean, the first episode that we were. recorded was the Greg Lugainis story. And Greg Luganis still to this day is the best diver to ever live. And a lot of people, you know, older people know its story, but a lot of younger people don't. And Greg Luganis had HIV back in the 80s when HIV was basically the stamp of, of, of, of ruination, you know. And he went to the Olympics and he bumped his head on the diving board. And there was blood in the pool and he made this choice not to tell anyone for years, even to not tell the doctor

who stitched him who didn't wear gloves. And it was just such a fascinating conversation to have with him about what, you know, everything that he was hiding. And when finally he came clean in front of the world and, and, you know, it's just like, you just feel him. You know, you feel who he is. And then there's the, you know, the, the, the conversation on athletes in mental health. And, and then there's fun ones like this guy that, like, hotwired his sword in a fencing competition. It was like, elaborate, like, scammed, you know. And, you know, these stories, like, they happen at the biggest pinnacle of an athlete's career at the Olympics. the stakes are high and stories are great.

And I've loved telling these stories. And it's just this big conversation on the human condition, but in a very high stakes way. All right. So people can go listen to Torch, wherever they're listening to this right now. And I've just, I've enjoyed this so much.

Your story is so fascinating to me. And if people haven't read Molly's game or watch the film, like you should go do that after watching or after listening to the first episode of Torch, that's what you should go do. But Molly, I end every conversation. with the same question because I'm all about gratitude. I start and end every day, saying out loud three things that I'm grateful for. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now?

It was really hard to get pregnant, like really hard. Like one of the hardest things I've ever gone through three years, nine rounds of IVF. I didn't know if I was going to be able to experience this and to have this little girl and have this experience. Like I'm just still in a state of shock and just massive gratitude. I'm grateful that, you know, people like you allow me to tell my story. Telling my story is what not only saved my own life, but as has led me to feel like I have the ability to help other people that are struggling. So I'm grateful for you, Chris.

And I'm grateful for you, mom. I'm grateful for my mom who's watching my little girl right now. So we have a conversation. And she moved down the hall for me. because, you know, I'm doing this by myself. So it's quite a feat. Love it. Grateful for you, Molly.

I said that out loud this morning. Grateful for this opportunity. So thank you so much. And I super appreciate you making the time to do this. Thanks. Okay. Molly just had her baby, who you could hear in the background a little bit there.

So a big, big thank you to her for squeezing us in. I'm sure that she is big. busier than ever now with that. So I really appreciate her making the time for this amazing conversation. Thank you, as always, for being with us while you're driving to work, working out, walking the dog, making dinner, whatever you're doing. Thank you. And go listen to Molly's podcast called Torched, wherever you're listening to this. And share this episode with a friend.

Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Let us know what you thought of this chat. Tag us so we can see it and we can share it. Molly is at I'm Molly Bloom I'm at Chris Van Vleet And I'll leave you with this quote from Austin O'Malley If you learn from a loss

You have not lost That's good Be great, be grateful We'll see you on the next one For some more insight Jim Rome takes on sports Why? Because I have a job to do With rapid fire takes

So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.