Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Bully Ray On Why There Won't Be A Dudley Boyz Reunion, Mae Young, Roman Reigns, MJF

Episode Date: March 2, 2023

Bully Ray (@BullyRay5150) is a professional wrestler known for his time in WWE, ECW, NWA and IMPACT Wrestling. He was inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2018 as part of the Dudley Boyz tag team with his partner D-Von Dudley. He joins Chris Van Vliet at Sam's Town Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas to talk about his career that has spanned 30+ years in professional wrestling, how he is currently working as a hell in Impact Wrestling and as a babyface in NWA, his thoughts on Roman Reigns in WWE, why MJF is the biggest heel in the business, how Mae Young being powerbombed through a table helped to put the Dudleyz over, what the idea of "heel heat" means to him, why he likes to keep people on their toes, his goals in Impact Wrestling and much more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris. All right, my friends, welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. And man, we've got a good one for you today. Bully Ray, Barbara Ray, whatever you want to call him, he's such an interesting guy, such a fascinating guy. And this is our fourth interview together. Those four interviews have spanned the last decade.

Yeah, we did the first one in 2013. when I was working in Cleveland. He was the TNA World Heavyweight Champion at the time. We did another one when he was with Ring of Honor, 2017, when he was going through one of his many retirement angles. Then we did one in May 2020, which a lot of people saw. He gave me an hour for that interview. We ended up going almost two hours

and it was like a real career retrospective of just everything he's done, his mindset, just really, really good stuff. And this one kind of picks up where that one left off. And the thing that I love about him is that he's not afraid to tell you how he feels. He's not afraid to tell you whether it's good or bad. He's going to speak his mind. And obviously it's no different this time.

So we did this interview. It was this past weekend in Las Vegas. Impact wrestling was there. They had no surrender. Then they had two days of TV tapings at Samstown Hotel and Gambling Hall, I think they call it. I mean, I was going to call it a casino, but I believe the official name is Samstown, Hotel, and Gambling Hall. And we recorded it in there inside this beautiful atrium near the lobby.

It was old school style. It was just my iPhone on a tripod and the two handheld mics. And we're in front of this waterfall that you will hear a little bit in the background. A little bit of ambiance, I think, there. So I hope you enjoy this. Take a screenshot. Let us know if you do enjoy it or, you know what, let us know if you don't enjoy it.

And tag us on Twitter. He's at Bully Ray 5150. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and Abundalaka-Laka-84. I think I said that right. Thank you for this review. It says awesome sauce. I started to listen to CVV because of Chris Jericho.

It is totally worth it. I am driving most of my day, so listening to CVV at work makes the day go so much smoother. I love here and stuff like that. And thank you for leaving this review an Apple podcast. Thank you to everyone who's left a review and I'll continue reading them out on here as my

way to say, thank you for being on this journey with me. And speaking of this journey, let's journey to Las Vegas together right now. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Bully Ray. Thank you for dressing up for me. Appreciate that. Good to see you again.

Part two of the Bully Ray interview. I figured unless I'm nice. And we do it in person too. You have become like a real broadcaster with everything you're doing with busted open. In fact, there's people that may have, may not be familiar with your wrestling work and they know you just as a broadcaster. Good for them because I'm not a very good wrestling. Get out of here. Get out of here. I think that's the best thing about you as a wrestler is whatever it is that you do, you become very, very good at it. I am very much a perfectionist

when it comes to my business, my livelihood, wrestling. I've always been that way. When I say I'm not a very good wrestler, I'm not kidding. So I don't, like, a lot of the stuff that the guys today do or the great mat wrestlers, or when you think of like a Melancho, a Guerrero, guys like that, I never had that ability. I never had that skill. What I was good at was the storytelling and the character and the smoking.

and the smoke and mirrors and the use of everything else at my disposal to create something that might be more interesting than just a regular wrestling match. So I play to my strengths. I know what my weaknesses are, and I try to just keep them by the side. That's the beauty of this business. You don't have to do what you're not good at doing. You're doing something really interesting right now.

You're working as a heel, here in Impact Wrestling. You're working as a baby face in MWA, and both of them are so over. It goes back to giving my all, investing in what I'm doing. If you're going to hate me, I'm going to be the most hated guy in the entire industry.

And I don't think that there is a guy. There are other, there are maybe three or four really good heels in wrestling right now. And I would put my name in there with that group. And when I'm on my game, I don't think that there's anybody in this industry who can elicit the emotion of hatred, of pure disdain like I can. You know, some guys go out there and they're, you know, the fans love to hate them. If people are loving to hate you,

then there's an emotion of joy involved. When I go out there, nobody loves to hate me. They just fucking hate me. I just interviewed Santino before this, and he was saying, he brought your name up specifically. He said, there's people who play a wrestler, and there's people who are a wrestler. And when Boli Ray is talking to you, he legitimately hates you in that moment. And I feel like you bring this realism to wrestling, bring it back to wrestling that maybe doesn't really exist right now. Well, I do something so simple, and I'm doing it to you right now. I will, I fuck you to death.

I look into you. I look through you. And that makes people so uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. By the time they even realize it, they're looking away. And by the time you've looked away, I know I have you. It's also my tone, my inflection, the way I said, the way my head bops. And the way I continuously just hears through you.

And I think that's what makes me a little different. I try not to yell anymore. I saved the yelling for when it means something. I learned a lot from Jake Roberts having to listen intently. And then when I do yell, it's going to mean that much more. Yeah. When you talk about some of the best heels in wrestling right now, is MJF on that list for you? MJF, see, everybody wants to talk about Max, like, oh, he's the best heel.

But people love to hate Max. When Max comes out for his entrance, there's a lot of people smiling. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of people like, oh, my God, what is he going to say? I can't wait for the zinger. When bully comes out, nobody's smiling. There's worry. And I love Max to death.

I am his biggest supporter and biggest fan, and he knows it. but it would be very easy for Max to go out there to a sea of booze, but also to a standing ovation. Right. And if they love you that much, then they can't hate you that much in that moment. He's going to turn, he'll or turn face one day, and it's going to be very interesting. There are certain nights where he's a straight-up baby face. And no matter what he said, and he doesn't even, he knows it.

But like the people don't have been realized, they're turning him straight up, baby. So I'm a big fan of Max. I love what Roman is doing because Roman just takes his time so much and just lets it soak in. I loved the Roman and Sammy match from Elimination Chamber. Because when the bell rang, Roman is smart enough. Not that Sammy isn't, but Sammy's going along with whatever. Roman wants to do. Roman is smart enough to not do a damn thing.

Just sit there, soak it in, let the emotion come through. Yeah. Let the fans get into everything. And when they finally locked up, the place popped. When do you... Not a lot of wrestlers. Very few wrestlers have that type of confidence in themselves to be comfortable in the silence,

to be comfortable in the boil. So when do you feel that moment was for you or for the Dudley Boys? I couldn't even, I guess it was the first night that me and Devon ever got together when I turned heel in ECW. You know, I was a stuttering, dancing, juggling, buffoon, baby face who people absolutely loved. And then they realized, this guy really can't wrestle too well. And I couldn't. I was exposed. So I had to learn on the fly. But then I realized that me and Devon had chemistry. And I said to Paul, I go, if you put me and Devon together, you might have something here. And just hand me a microphone and let's see what happens. And we went out. We hit that first 3D on the Sandman and on Spike. Something happened that night. And that's been it.

I remember you saying in our last interview how important the 3D was, how important your finisher was to get you guys over. You had the characters, you had the in-ring work, the finisher made people go, oh, wow. A tag team finish is, to me, the number one most important thing a tag team should have, other than, you know, chemistry, continuity, but in the middle of the ring, all of the great tag teams, tell me who your favorite tag team is of all time. Of all time?

Yeah. The Hardy Boys. Okay. And what is their tag team finish? Ah. I guess it's the setup with the Twist of Fate into the Swansharm. Sure, but it's still something that's recognized. It doesn't have to be something that both guys... They're doing together? You know, you think of power and glory. What did they do the Superplex into something.

It doesn't have to be a move that's done specifically together like a 3D, as long as it's recognizable to the fans as Twist of Fate, Swanton. Yeah, yeah. Both guys doing something. I'm more of a traditionalist. Shatter machine, heart attack, Dudley Death Drop, two guys coming together in one as one move.

Meltzer driver? I would never name a finishing move after fucking dirt sheet die. And I'm kidding. No, I'm not kidding about naming the move, but great move. Dave is not a dirt sheet guy. I have no problem with Dave. I take little shots at the star rankings,

but Dave's a bigger worker than any wrestler I know. I take big shots at the star rankings. Like, Impact Wrestling has only had one five-star match in the history of Impact Wrestling. Did you know that? But who was that? I'll give you a guess. Oh, no, it was the three-way between AJ, Joe, and Daniels.

Yeah. For the fact that Kurt Angle didn't have a five-star match, the fact that you didn't have one here? I can tell you what I have done here that should denote a five-star match. So me and Jeff Hardy in the cage at lockdown, okay, that sold more tickets to any pay-per-view or event in the United States for T&A and Impact than any other show ever. Wow. That alone is a five-star performance to me.

But here's the thing with the star ratings, like, and I bus jobs. if Rick Flair want to give out star ratings on a match I'll start to listen if Hulk Hogan wants to give out star ratings I'll start to lift if Ricky Steamboat wants to give out star ratings to get my point

Sounds like you should start giving out Star ratings I don't I don't give out star ratings I give bag of money ratings because you can't pay your mortgage with a star rating but you can pay your mortgage with a bag of money

so when you talk about tag teams doing something together Did you realize what's up was going to get over the first time you guys did it? I did. Devon did it. Devon was adamant about not doing it. He's like, it's stupid. I'm not doing it. I'm like, yes, you will.

Because we used to do the diving headbutt into the balls. That was just part of our, you know, our repertoire. Yeah. And then when the whole Budweiser commercial came out in the 2000s, you know, where that, where that, where that, yeah, do it. Well, there. It's like, no, you got to hang your tongue out. When it came out, I just said to Devon, I go, when you go up there, just wait, and I'm going to go,

where that? And then you do it back to me. It's stupid shit that gets over in this business, but it's work. And it works today. It's kind of like, you know, Hiss has to play Detroit Rock City. They have to play shout it out loud. They have to play rock and roll all night. Me and Devon have to do the what's up.

We have to do Devon get the tables. We have to put somebody through a table, and we have to do a three day. Those are the hits, and that's what the people pay to say. Did you think Devon Get the T-Tables would become a catchphrase that you'd put on a T-shirt? Yeah. Wow.

Yeah. Yep, because I remember the first time I just said, you know, get the table. And then we're out there again, and I just heard people yelling, you know, get the table, get the table. and I said, well, what if we did the what's up? And then I pushed them and said, gave the people the time to get behind it and just scream out, you know, get the tables.

The beauty of that is that it happened organically. And a lot of shit doesn't happen organically anymore in the wrestling industry. So it works. You're very good at your timing is so good. And I know that that's obviously attributed to doing this for 25 plus years, but your timing has always been good. If you watch you in ECW, it's always been there. Where'd that come from? I pay a lot of attention to rock and roll.

I do pay attention to some movies that I've seen over the years where the pause or comedians, where they let the joke ride. They ride the wave of the joke, and then they hitch their next joke to the bottom of the wave of the prior joke. And you just kind of let it flow, you know? It just, and it just comes with doing this for a while.

One of the beauties, or one of the positives that I got to do in my career is I got to work 300 nights a year. When you get to work 300 nights a year, your chops are up. Your timing is up. Your game is up. Your work is up. I do feel bad for a lot of the talent that have to perform on TV, these younger talent,

because they're only working once a week. You're only going to be so good working once a week on television. There's going to be glaring holes in your work, in your registering, in your selling, in how you do everything in your timing. You can't get really great at this. Who are the greatest of the grades? Sean, Brett.

Flair, yeah. These are guys that, at one time, 330 nights a year, you know? But on the flip side of that is that they're not taking as many bumps as you guys might have been 10, 20, 30 years ago. Are their bodies in better shape as they get into their 40s and 50s? I feel great.

I'm 51, and I feel great. You look great, too. Thank you. And look at Chris. Look at Jericho. Yeah. People break my balls on social media. Oh, you old man, you know, make room for the young guys.

I'll tell you what, when some fucking young guy can come along and do what I do and generate more heat than I can or be more loved than I can on any given night, then take my spot. They're like, oh, you're taking a spot from a younger guy. No? I'm just doing what I do. Do you think you... When a young band can come along and not kiss,

off their podium or the stones or any of these the stones are fucking 80 and they're still doing it and why is Live Nation still paying ungodly amounts of money to all these old bands

it's because none of the new bands can get it done. People love nostalgia. People love nostalgia. It's the most powerful drug. With the stuff you are doing in impact wrestling right now is the goal to be the champion again?

Well, from a If you put the character under a microscope, yes, the goal is to be the champion. But when you look at it from a business point of view, the goal is to utilize the character for anybody and everybody in the company. I look into the entire locker room and I can honestly tell you, Bully Ray can work with any single person in that locker room, any baby things. and I can make that baby face, and I can make that baby face in five minutes. Give me five minutes with any baby face and they will be made.

It's because of the way Paul, Heyman made me and Devon. Me and Devon lost all the time. But he handed me the microphone the very next night and said, go get you heaping. You give me this. Let me do what I do with this. No matter who walks out through that curtain, is going to get a huge pop because they're just going to want to see that person,

punch me in the mouth, and shut me up. And this is why I think you could do this for as long as you want. Even if you're not still bumping in your late 50s and 60s, you could still use this thing forever. And I take my share of bumps. I just take them when they mean something. I don't come off my feet just for the sake of it. If you're going to bump me, you're going to earn the bump.

And that's not to say, well, oh, you're an egomaniac. You've got to earn the bump. No, it's for the fans because if you're an undersized baby face or you're just a baby face that doesn't pack a huge punch, but you keep fighting and you keep working and you keep digging deep, when you eventually do catch me with that missile drop tick or that high cross body or that one good punch and I drop, the people are going to come. And it's going to mean something as opposed to just bumping in the first minute of the match and then the six foot. foot three, two hundred and ninety-pound veteran is off his feet and okay where we're going from here. 90? Yeah. That looked great.

Thank you. Yeah. Fucking jacked. We're a body guy now. Haven't you heard? I remember that we did an interview in 2011. Well, body guy. You're a body guy.

Body guy. Look at this tailed. Nice. That's a great suit. Dreamer saw me in this suit the other night and he was like, oh, I looked like such a load. He's like, I'm going out there in a sweat, in a sweatshirt and you're going out there in Nice jackie. I remember in 2011 when you came to Cleveland, I was an entertainment reporter for CBS there,

and you were so jacked, you were the champion of the time, and it was like, what a shift. Like what a complete shift to make people forget that Bobbarae even existed because Bully Ray was a totally different character. When me and Devon split up and I went my, and I was going in the direction that I wanted to go and I knew I had to do something different and do something different quickly. And I said, I'm just going to get into the best shape I've ever been in. I never needed, you know, abs to be success. Dusty didn't need abs.

You know, I didn't need abs. I'm not putting in myself up there with Dusty, but I'm just saying, if you're good at what you do, people can relate to all shapes and sizes. Sure. Kevin Owens. I don't think Kevin knows anybody named Jim, let alone go to one. But he doesn't have to.

Right. I don't want Kevin Owens to go to the gym. I don't want Kevin Owens to tan. because Kevin Owens that got over and works to the degree that he works where he's main eventing one night at WrestleMania with Austin didn't have to go to a gym and didn't have to tan so don't start now.

He just takes the sleeves off his shirt. It's enough for him. It works. You remember wrestling back in the day, all shapes, all sizes. Yes, but the top guys at that time were like Warrior and Hogan and macho-man. And of course there were some exceptions, but it was Vince loved bodybuilders then.

It was WWWF, yes, Vince loved his bodybuilders. But when you look at the business as a whole, not everybody needed to be jacked and tan and smooth and pretty. Yeah. You know, you need your rough around the edges guys. I feel like that makes you more relatable. Absolutely. Especially like you were talking earlier about, you know, looking at someone's soul and being menacing.

Accompany that with a New York accent. It's so terrifying. Chris, and I think you know this. People cannot figure me out. They can't. In the ring or out of the ring. They can't figure you out. In our last interview, you're like,

you're a really nice guy. I think. Yeah. I keep everybody on their toes. It's very old. old school and max to his to his credit 24-7 yeah like i used to do 24-7 or the sheik used to do 24-7 or blast he used to do 24-7 i don't when people come up to me now like for an autograph a bit you know you know bubba can i uh take a like that like that guy right before this interview

bubba can i have a picture sure absolutely he gets his picture right he walks away but he's like holy shit Bubbo he needs business yeah you're not gonna walk if I'm the hottest heel in the business

or I'm the most effective heel in the business I'm not gonna you're not gonna come up to me and walk away without a story you're gonna get your picture you're gonna get your autograph but when you walk away

you're gonna walk away knowing that that guy's the real deal yeah you feel something and I'm not playing the real deal I'm the real fucking deal yeah you're not playing it no no no no no and the business knows that

The guys and gals in the business know that. Are there ever young wrestlers that you're going to work with them and they're a little bit nervous? Because your reputation precedes you. And then they come out of the match and they go, oh, my God, wow. You are so different than I thought. What reputation are you talking about? I think it's just the reputation of exactly what you were talking about. And it's not a bad thing, but you say what you mean.

You mean what you say. You're a straight shooter. But I think that sometimes people, they want things sugar-coded. a little bit. But once you get into the ring, what's my reputation in the ring? Oh, great worker. Yeah. Okay. You put everybody over. Yeah. Nobody walks out, you know, hurt or anything like that, work as safely as possible. Um, but yeah, people are uncomfortable with this. Yeah. This business has turned into, hey, you know, do you mind if we do this, this, this, and this? I was thinking, we, if it's okay with you. Well, this was your first problem, you started

to think. Yes, everything is okay with me. Anybody, whether it's your first match or whether I'm working with Rick Flair, anybody can come to me with any idea. I'm going to listen. Some ideas are going to be so great. I'm like, oh my God, I love it.

We're doing it. Absolutely. And they're like, holy shit. It was that easy? Yup, because the idea was that damn good. Yeah. Wow. There's like a dime.

Oh, it's a bear. Look behind you, there's a bear. Yeah. My goodness. Cocaine bear. What? But there are sometimes when ideas come to me where I'm like, thank you for the idea. We're not going to do it.

And here's the reason why. It's never no. Sometimes, yeah, sometimes you get an idea that's so outlandish. It's just like, sorry not to. today, it doesn't work. But it's, you know, it's about, it's about having good communication. I don't, if I go up to, if I go up to, uh, Undertaker and I go, boss, tackle drop down, hip-thos, arm, drag, body slam, and he hates it.

People are like, Bob, that's good, but why don't we save it for this other match or, hey, why don't we try to do it this way? Oh, okay, good. Yeah. I'm not, I'm right a lot. You know why I'm right a lot? because my track record says, I'm right a lot. That's just me.

I'm just being honest. It's not braggadocious, but I've been wrong too. And when I'm wrong, I'm the first one to go, Mother, I was wrong on this one. Yeah. And then I'll sit back and I'll analyze, well, why was I wrong about it? What did I miss? What did I not see before we went out there?

So that's where the perfectionist comes in. Was one of those ideas that was presented to you that you went, yes, I'm all in. Was that May Young being put through the table? I was very hesitant because it was an 80-year-old woman. But then after that first thing and I saw her attitude and everything, and I've told the stories a million times, I was raring to go. I was raring to go.

I remember when Vince came to me in Devon and he's like, I got it. I know how we'll get the people to hate you. You're going to put a woman through a table. I'll like, yeah, that's going to fucking work. They love us for it. One of the great things about you putting May through the table is her squeezing your hand when she's down there just to say, hey, I'm okay. What the conversation looked like backstage after that spot?

Hugs and kisses. There are two people in this industry that I will, until the day I die, make sure that the world knows about my love, respect, and admiration for. And that's May Young and Freddie Blasset. Because May got us over. Nobody gets themselves over in this business. You need somebody else to get you over. May Young got the Dudleys over.

A handful of other women did the same thing for taking that super bomb through a table. But for what May did for us and what else she was willing to do, I always went there on social media on her birthday and on the day she passed away and I make sure I say something or just post something to remember them.

And then Freddie Blassie. I'll never forget the first time I met Freddie Blassie at WWE, New York, the grand opening of it. And Freddie, Freddy's wife, he's in a wheelchair. And Freddy's wife wheels him up to me in Devon. And he goes, fellas, I love what you do with the tongue. My God. And Freddie Blassie, who I grew up on, watching WWWF on Channel 9, WOR, in Queens, That guy, that great man,

that pencil, that day, is coming up to us and doing our gimmick. Wow. And then sits us down and is telling stories and making fun of his wife. And he has us laughing so hard. And then any time we would see Freddie, it was always,

Bada, Divan, come over here, you know, let's talk. And two weeks before he died, me and Divan are in the ring, in the ring with three minute warning Rosie and Jamal and God rest to know their souls also brothers of ours friends of ours Steve Austin rolls Freddie Blassie to the ring in his wheelchair and me and Devon do the what's up and right as I'm about to say Devon get the tables Austin goes whoa whoa whoa whoa fredi Blassie's got something he wants to say and for I'm getting chill yeah and Freddy says

Devon, get the tables. And two weeks later, Freddie Blassie passed away. Wow, that's such a great story. The last thing Freddie Blassie ever said in a wrestling ring was Devon get the tables. Wow. You got two kids, me and Devon, from the Dudleyville section of New York via Queens and Brooklyn, watching Freddie Blassie all our life. Can you imagine you would have told us day one?

Hey, Freddie Blassie, the last thing he's going to ever say is something that you guys came up with. Wow. And that's why I always pay respect to Freddie on social media. Wow. You think we'll ever see the Dudleys get back together? Me and basically I don't think so because I don't think Devon can do it anymore. We've had the conversation. And for the world to know, because people on social media take things so out of context and run with shit.

It's ridiculous. Me and Devon have been like this since day one. There has never been an issue with me and Devon. All this shit that you like to run with is clickbait headlines. Fuck off. There's never been. They think there's heat. Zero.

Zero. There's nothing. Devon said, Devant said that, you know, me and Bubba's got his school. I got my school. Yeah. Because I moved out of Florida. Yeah.

Devon wanted to do a school on his own. This is just normal stuff that went on. Right. There's zero heat. People think that he wanted to resign with WWE. You didn't. That caused a divide. That's true, though.

And that... Didn't cause a divide. I told Vince, can't do the Dudley thing anymore. I can't do this Dudley thing the way you want to do it. Did it for a year. Vince sat me and Von down and said, here's what I want you to do.

Work with the new day. help them get over. Work with the Uso's, help them get over. Work with the Wyatts, help them get over. And then whoever else we throw at you. Yeah. Okay. You did all that. You got it. No problem. The boss sat us down. This is how much he's paying us. This is what he needs. You got it. Yeah. But after a year of doing it, I'm just like, okay, I'm burnt on the Dudleys. And I know I got Bully Ray in my back pocket. And I told Devon up front. I said, listen, I don't think I'm going to resign. So we knew all this. he re-signed he came a producer with the company an employee with the company

you know and just recently they parted ways Devon had a great career there as a producer and did very well so there was never any animosity with me and Devon and we talk all the time we've done a couple of shows together

we're doing an autograph session in England we got something coming up at the arena pretty soon so it's all good this is like when seeing you guys together in an autograph signing is like seeing the New Age Outlaws together at an autograph signing. It's like one without the other

is great, but when you put you guys together, it's magic. Yeah. DeBond came to visit in Tampa recently. Impact was we were doing TV tapings in Tampa and he walks in the room and hey man, what's going on?

Hug, you know? It's just we fall right back into our natural. He's your brother. Exactly. Yeah. So we're just doing our thing and I can see out of the corner by eye like the boys, they're like, really them? We never see them in the same spot anymore. Like it was, and that was kind of cool to see, like, you can see the respect.

Yeah. In the other wrestlers' eyes and then they all came over and said hello and a couple of guys like, can we take a picture with you guys? We're like, of course. That's awesome. So, yeah, but we're totally fine. But as far as us, I don't know physically if he can do it. But maybe just an appearance?

Now the clickbeat will be, Bully Ray says, Devon can't wrestle anymore. And people will read that and they'll go, oh, fuck bully, not reading the article, you know, giving...

Or watching the full interview. Yeah. You know, where the article says, the doctors told him, you might want to, you know, one bad bumping.

Wow. Because he had his spine, his spine fused together. You know, he had a stroke and he had a spinal fusion. So, and that's all documented. Yeah.

Is there anything left in wrestling? that you feel like you haven't accomplished yet? No. No, I've done it all. I'd like to try to do it again. I know I can do it again. Because I bring to the table, I offer something that nobody else can

and that it's genuine heel heat. Yeah. Real disdain. But it also worries me to an extent sometimes because I think the heel heat that I generated years ago, whether that was in ECW or in T impact with, you know, like the Aces and Ates. Yeah.

I think those levels of feel heat these days people run away from. It's almost too much hatred. Yeah, those are the type of things where you... Which lends the pacification of the entire wrestling business. It's like those are the things where when you say that people go, I don't know if you should have said that. Why? Because of exactly what you just said.

Oh, when I say stuff, like, oh, I shouldn't have said something? Like, you know, not you specifically, but just wrestlers in general like, ooh, there's a line here. Max is calling chicks rats. Yeah. Max, he's told him a blowout job in his Camaro. Yeah, he burns the, blurs the line a lot. He is saying, he is definitely saying a lot of things that even I would think today is like, man, I can't believe he's getting away with it.

Think he'll ever go to WWE? Why not? Yeah. Well, I think the only answer to why not is he couldn't say half those things. He would never be able to be the version of the MJN. that we know and love. Yeah. They would have to put their twist, their spin

as they do everything because that's just the way the WWE is. And is that wrong of them? It's their company. They're a publicly traded company. They're the biggest wrestling. At least for now. They're the biggest wrestling company on the planet.

Yeah. And if they see an aspect of his character that they feel that they can improve on or present in a different way. Yeah. So if Max wants to stay, max for the rest of his life, don't go.

But if you want to go make a gazillion dollars and headline WrestleMania, which I think he has all the potential in the world to do. It's always good catching up with you. This is actually our fourth interview together. I remember one in Fort Lauderdale. Yes. Yep. When you asked me, what advice do you have for young wrestlers?

And I said, get over. Such great advice. It really is. That's just great life advice. In wrestling, I give the same answer all the time. Boba, what advice do you have? Get over. How? I don't know.

Get over. Well, what worked for you? I was 402 pounds. I had a stuttering problem. I danced, and I can juggle. Classes with taper on the middle. If you think that, I wore tie-dite. If you think that could work for you, go ahead.

Try it. See if it works. I don't know what is going to work for anybody. I can sit back and watch people and I'll give them ideas on maybe try this or do it this way. But I don't know what is definitely going to hit. Fans are going to react differently, but you have to be in tune with it. Yeah. As a young wrestler, I was told, listen to the crowd.

And I was like, listen to the crowd. I can't even hear myself think out there because I was in such a state of anxiety. What's next? What's next? What's next? And then one night I found myself going, proud. I can hear them now. And if you just listen to them and what they're reacting to,

keep going down that road. So I end every conversation with gratitude because it's a big part of my life. I say three things I'm grateful for when I start the day and when I end the day. So what are three things you're grateful for right now? I'm very grateful. I've had a rough year.

Really? I've got a really, I've had the roughest year of my life this past year. I'm so sorry to hear that. No, it's all good. It's all good. And I appreciate that. I'm thankful for the people that have stood by me in this time. So basically, what I'm most grateful for is going to sound like a very generic answer.

My friends, my family, and the wrestling business, because those are the things that have kept me going this whole time. And I've had, you know, people, you know, really, really close to me have to be a thing. crutch for me at times. So life is rough. We all get a hit with it. You know, it doesn't matter how tough you are. If the man upstairs, whether you believe or not, decides to throw you a curveball up and inside, and that curveball is sometimes going to catch you right here. You will go down. And I know this is resonating with you because I can see the look on your face. Yeah. Well, because it's not always, it's ups and downs, right? This resonates with me because for every high moment you have, you gotta eat shit. And then there's another high moment. I've never experienced

a down the way I experienced this past year. So at 51, I took a good, good shot and regrouping from it took some time. So yeah, friends, family, and the business. And I always, listen, I'd be the biggest piece of shit in the wrestling business, but I still appreciate the fan base. I will always appreciate it. Because if you're booing me, I'm doing the right job. If you're cheering me, I'm doing my job. And if you're listening to Be on Busted Open, I'm doing my job. So that's what I'm most proud of today is to be able to walk into the NWA and have that entire crowd behind me. Yeah. Getting into an impact ring with the history that I have here and having that entire ground despise me. Being able to take Josh Alexander someplace he hasn't been yet.

Force him out of his comfort zone of, I'm a wrestler. Big fucking deal. Great, go have your five-star match. We're going to tell a five-star story. And at the end of the day, you're going to be a hero for it. I'm proud of my abilities to do that. I'm proud of my abilities to bring things out of guys and dows that they didn't know were there. I'm proud of my ability to go on busted open and watch pro wrestling and talk about it from an honest and fair point of view. And I have an allegiance to nobody. If I see stuff in NWA that sucks, I'll say it sucks.

Impact, say it sucks. AEW, Warden knows. That's one of the biggest misconceptions about me is when it comes to AEW. AEW fans think I hate AEW, which is, most of them have their head shoved so far up their own asses that they can't hear that I actually put the company over 90% of the time because it reminds me of ECW because of the work ethic. I love the AEW fan base because they are the most important part of the company. Who was the most important part of ECW? The fans. That AEW fan base gets them through shows that sometimes

I could poke holes in forever. But I'll sit back and go, how can I poke holes in this when these people are having a great time? Guar. War. War's not my cup of tea. You kind of look like sleazy P. Martini.

Thank you. You kind of got the sleazy. crazy beat me going on. But like Guar, do you listen to Guar? I interviewed them years ago. Okay. And their lead singer just recently passed away. Otoris, Yerungus, yeah, Dave Brock. That's who I interviewed, yeah. He was the genius behind the bed.

But my point about Guar is, I would never listen to Guar. It's not my cup of tea. But Guar sells out a thousand seats every night that they play. What am I supposed to tell that fan base that are going crazy for Guar when they're bringing on stage a giant, penis and there's blood shooting out of it and everybody's like yeah this is the best what am i going to do tell you that guar sucks yeah right so but i can sit back and tell you the holes that i see in a company like a e w and where they can tighten their screws sure when it comes to the refereeing when it

comes to the some of the blatant stuff that has gone on recently that wrestlers should be doing a better job of trying to conceal. These are such easy fixes. Do it. You'll have a better product. Concentrate a little bit more on story. If the WWE is teaching us one thing right now is character development and storytelling works. Yeah.

Which is ironic because WWE wasn't doing long-term storytelling for a long time. It works. Yeah. You know, AEW fans will tell you, well, we're doing storytelling and, you know, Tony will say, Well, we're doing storytelling. In your mind, it might be a story that's going to last three months. But where's the depth? Yeah.

Where's the real emotion other than the moves? And maybe MJF making you hate him. You know, they got a lot of talent. Like, Wardlow. Yeah. What the fuck did they hit the brakes on Wolow for? I wonder what happened there. Do you know?

Is there like a reason? I don't know. Did he bruise his spleen? Do you know? No. if I have my Goldberg yeah he's getting over like Goldberg yes yeah

week after week after week and then all of a sudden they put him in the ring with Orange Cassidy and I said he screwed yeah they cut his hair yeah AEW is still a new company a young company and I think they're doing a good job and it's going to be a learning process

for everybody there ownership management but it's still a fun, fun show to watch, you know? It really is. I enjoy Wednesdays. I enjoy it all right now. It's an exciting time.

And always a good time with you. Thank you. A pleasure, as always. Thank you, Sleesey P. Martini. You got a good grip there. I'm trying to show you, you know? Look at that. Look at that.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Well, there we go. Love that conversation. And if I'm being completely honest, and transparent here because that's how I always like to be with you. That interview could have gone like a lot longer, but I had a flight to catch.

Like I left there at one o'clock and it's like 16 minutes from the airport. I left there at one o'clock. This interview ended at like 1259. My flight started boarding at like 104. So we were cutting this pretty fine here. So I feel like we need to do part five of this interview. But I just love talking to Bully Ray. And we did a lot of great interviews that day.

I was in Vegas for like five hours. And we did this one with Bully Ray. And then we did one with Santino Morella and Rishad Evans, former UFC Light Heavyweight Champion. You'll be seeing and hearing those in the next few weeks. But just love Bully Ray's honesty and just a great conversation. And if you enjoyed this, snap a screenshot. Share this with a friend and let them know that you enjoyed it.

and let us know by tagging us on Twitter or Instagram and let us know what stood out for you the most. He is at Bully Ray 5150. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and Henry Ford said it best. The only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports.

Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid-fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here.

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