Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Carmelo Hayes Is The Future Of WWE! Being NXT Champion, Advice From John Cena, Undertaker Moment

Episode Date: October 31, 2023

Carmelo Hayes (@carmelo_wwe) is a professional wrestler with WWE and is currently in NXT. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about the meaning of being "Him", what being the NXT Champion meant to him, his match with opponents like Ilja Dragunov and Bron Breakker, sharing a moment with The Undertaker on NXT, the advice he received from John Cena, how he came up with the name "Christian Cassanova" that he used on the independent circuit, his favorite wrestlers when he was growing up, looking up to Eddie Guerrero, the pressure of being referred to as the future of WWE and much more! Sponsors: MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% Quote I'm thinking about: As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not to utter words, but to live by them. - John F. Kennedy For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van. Believe. Welcome back to another one on Insight. It's your friendly neighborhood. CVV. Chris Van Flea. Thank you so much for being here.

And thank you for making Insight. One of the top wrestling podcasts in the world. I appreciate you coming back each and every episode. And if you haven't yet, please hit follow on whatever podcast app it is that you're listening on right now. It's close to 75. I think it's 75% of the people who listen to the show haven't hit follow yet. So if I could ask a favor, if you've ever enjoyed any of the interviews that we've ever done on the show,

please go hit that follow button on your app because it helps the show more than I could possibly explain. And the bigger the show gets, the better the guests get. And today, we've got a man who many people consider to be the future of WWE. Carmelo Hayes is in the house. And if you watch NXT, you know exactly what I'm talking about. So, so talented. And if we take it back before his time in NXT, he's an East Coast guy from Massachusetts.

So you may know him as Christian Casanova when he was tearing it up on the Indies. And we did this interview right before his match with Ilya Dragonoff for the NXT championship, Halloween Havoc. So if you're listening to this on the day that this interview came, came out, you can watch that tonight, Tuesday night, October 31st, Halloween, Halloween Havoc happening tonight. So you can go check that out. If you're listening any time after that, you're equally as awesome. You can go back and go check out the amazing match that I'm sure those guys are going to have because every time those guys are in the ring together,

whew, it's magic. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with a fellow NXT fan, a fellow Carmelo fan, and take a screenshot and share it on social media and tag us. so that we know you were listening to it. And let us know what stood out the most for you. He's at Carmelow underscore WWE. I'm at Chris Van Vleet, and here we go. Enjoy this conversation with Carmelo Hayes. There he is.

What a pleasure to be chatting with him. Mello, it's so good to officially meet you. Yeah, likewise, Chris, yeah. Been following you on Twitter, been following you on Instagram, been following you on NXT. What a journey you've been on. Absolutely, yeah. Good to be here, man.

Yeah, it's so good to have you on. I actually want to start with this. What does it mean to be him? I don't know if you watched NXC last night. You know, I had to kind of come to Jesus' moment. If I'm not champion and I'm not, you know, the top of the card, then am I really him? I think, you know, going into this match with Ilya Draganov,

it really is a question I needed to ask myself as, what does that mean to be him? If I'm not champion, can I say that? I'm him. So that's kind of the battle that I'm faced with myself. But, you know, it's easy to say you're him when you're successful and everything's going your way and you've got all the championships and you're killing it. But to really ask yourself, what does it mean to be him with nothing to show for? It's a question I'm still trying to find out. You know, that brings me to a really interesting question. Do you think you learn more from a win or do you learn more from a loss? Yeah, absolutely

a loss. If you look at my track record in NXT, I've had a title longer than I haven't. So, So, you know, that chasing kind of story that I've had to do has been few and far between. So I'm finding myself on a lot of these losses. You know, it's easy when you're at the top and everything's going your way. But down at the bottom, you have to climb your way back to the top. That's where you find yourself. Yes. How long until you got a title again?

Because I feel like you're right. You've had a title for so long. It's weird seeing you without a title around your waist around your shoulder. It's nice, though, because, you know, You know, the pressure in the microscope of having a championship isn't always on you. That's the one difference that I think about not being champion. But at the same time, when you get into anything, you know, especially with wrestling, you want to be championed. If you're not trying to be champion, then what's the point, you know, what's the chase for?

So, you know, obviously I want to be back championing the game. You had a heck of a show a few weeks ago. A lot of people are calling this like NXT WrestleMania. And here you are in the main event, you know, you're doing stuff with. with John Cena, you're doing something with The Undertaker who shows up. Walk me through what that day was like for you. It was like a dream. It was like a fever dream, man.

It's funny. A lot of people kept, you know, hit me up the day after and, you know, that night. It was like, I almost couldn't believe that it happened. But there was that moment where you're like, look, I'm a pro and I'm going to be in this moment and I understand the assignment. And it was a moment where I was a little kid. And I'm like, shoot, this is pretty cool. man, this is really cool.

The whole thing would take her at the end. I didn't know that, you know, I didn't know that was going to happen. I didn't know what to do. I just kind of was like, I mean, just walked back with him. And he walked me through the whole, you know, thing with the pose and everything. I was just sitting there like a kid. And I remember walking back through. I was like, that was so freaking cool.

He just patted me on the back. But it was a great moment, just cool experience. And something I'll never forget, man, for it. No, you know, it's not like he walked you. You did the move at the same time. Like, how did you figure all that out if you didn't know what was going to happen? What he told me, he said, all right, three, one, two, three, now.

I'm listening. Don't mess this up, Mello. Don't mess this up. But it was just cool, man. Those guys were just great to work with. Like I said, just a dream. The kid in me was screaming, but the pro in me was like run the play. Did you have a chance to spend some time with Undertaker after that?

maybe pick his brain a little bit? So I actually talked to the taker a bunch of times before that. So, like, we, you know, he actually sat down with me one time for like an hour and we just talk. Same thing with Sina. So, I mean, it wasn't my first interaction with these guys, which is, you know, probably better because now they're familiar with me. I'm familiar with them.

But, yeah, I mean, any opportunity I get to talk to take great opportunity I get to talk to Paul Hamey and John Sina, I take every single one. And those guys are more than generous with their time. especially with young talent that wants to learn. And we all want to learn at NNXT. So they were very, very gracious with their time for sure. And let's add one more name to that. I mean, you get to work with Sean Michaels week in, week out.

How cool is that? The coolest. I mean, even just this morning, just getting to talk to him for a little bit, just relates how proudies of the work that we're doing. And, you know, what we're creating at NXT, it's just reassuring. But I've learned so much from him and not even what you would think. You know what I mean? A lot of people would be like, oh man, the in-ringed stuff, you know, but no, it's not. There's way more to this than what people realize.

It's a lot to do with the facials, a lot to do with the demeanor and the character work. I mean, we're at that stage right now. I'm glad you touched on that because I think there's a lot of people that are in the position that you were in a few years ago, where you're making a huge name for yourself on the Indies. And then I think that people think if you're a great independent wrestler, you're going to be automatically great in NXT or on the main roster. Like you said, there's a lot of elements, a lot of components that you don't do in the Indies that you now do where you're at right now. For sure. I mean, when I first came in, it was right on the tail in the black and gold.

So that was like a super work rate style. And going into 2.0, it was a lot more character base. And I kind of realized, I said, man, I got to do the best of Oprah. It's not that I was a super character on the Indies, but I understood kind of now what it's going to take. to do television, wrestling, entertainment, more wrestling entertainment. Like, I kind of understood that

and realized that you've got to have an equal balance of, you know, work rate, but at the same time, the entertainment value. And I think that's what helped me excel. And I'm still learning it out to the state. So let's talk about your time on the Indies. How do you come up with the name,

Christian Casanova? So when I went to do a one day, like a fantasy camp, so it was like a tryout camp, like one of my buddies, I mean, and he's like, hey, man, like, let's do this. And I loved wrestling. I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't really paying attention to WWE at that time. So I'm like 18, you know, 19.

And he's like, come do this one day. We used to love restaurants. Yeah, yeah, I want you because I always wanted to be a wrestler. It just seemed so far out of reach. You know what I mean? You just didn't know how to get into it. You didn't know who to talk, how to do it. And I was small.

So I'm just thinking it's just, you know, I'm not these guys. But so we went and, you know, we were going to, you know, we were going to do a promo, I needed a name. I remember thinking myself, my name's Christian. My name's Christian. And I'm like, Cassanova. I'm like, that sounds smooth. And I just kind of ran with it.

Never forget, my first show, one of the bookers was like, oh, that's an awful name. We're going to change that. And it never got changed. It just ran with it. So then how do you go from Christian Casanova into the position you're in right now? What goes into picking the name Carmelo Hayes? Sure. It was just understanding that evolution is required in wrestling in general in this business.

Me as a person, like the best part about it was I was a kid in the business and I grew up, you know, through wrestling. And I had to evolve because of, you know, my, you know, circumstances and then my experiences. And, you know, I was just seeing my evolution as a human being as well as a wrestler. And, you know, you know, transformed the whole Carmelo thing. Obviously, you know how that works. You get signed to NIC. you know, you're not going to take the same name. So I'm thinking of, like, names that are relatable that people can know, but that's not like an overused name.

And I'm thinking sports and I'm thinking, you know, music and pop and about culture. And I just remember Carmelo was just one of many names I threw out in the Hayes. The Hayes name was like Purple Hayes, like Hayes, H-A-Z-E. Remember the conversation was like, Hunter, maybe I thought it might have been a little bit too, you know, gimmicky with the Hayes like Hayes. So they said they changed it to like Michael Hayes H-A-Y-E-S. So it was like you know how that works. So you give them a couple names

and they kind of put them together and name generator. It's true. But I love my name now. Does this mean you have some sort of distant relationship to Michael Hayes? Every time I see him, I call my pops. It's my son right here. Every time I see him.

What was the match that specifically got you into being a wrestling fan. So I was like a ruthless aggression fan. So if you remember like during their late attitude ever times, so I'm 29. So like I was still very young. But if you remember, it was always on. Like, WWE was always on.

So I remember watching it. But I remember like really, I can't get you a match, Chris, but I can remember like it was Smackdown because at that time I didn't have cable. So I remember just Smackdown being on. I was just going through the channels at like, um, like eight or nine at night, Smackdown was on. I just remember just being like, man, this is cool. Like, oh, let me watch.

There's, like, stories involved. And these guys are like, you know, look at these guys, man. It's just cool. So that, this aggression errors would, like, you know, scoop me in. And then I found out there was like Monday Night Raw. Remember they'd show like, quick for Monday? And I was like, man, how do I watch that? And then I ended up eventually, like, I think a year or so later, we got cable.

And then it was a rap. And then I'm watching Monday. Then I'm watching Thursday. It was Thursday. Remember when it was Thursday? Yeah. And I watched Thursday. Right, right?

And then I'll watch like Sunday night heat, bro. I was a wrestlehead. And I would watch velocity. I used to watch like truly everything. Yeah, I was like throwing a few more like shotgun. Like I'd be like, oh, I don't even care who's wrestling. I just need to watch this. Because remember, bro, there was no YouTube really.

There was no like, if you missed it, it was done. Like you never could go back and watch it. So you had to watch. Unless, unless. What's your friend recorded it on the car? Remember that? Bro, I remember I used to have them. I remember I got like two or three episodes on the VHS.

And I would play them back. Now watch them or your buddy got like the VHSs that they used to sell home videos. You go to your buddy's house and they would have the home videos from like, that's how I learned about early attitude era. Who was your guy? So when I first started watching wrestling, I love, obviously I loved like Raymond Serio. I remember I watched his debut So that's how I can put a timeline on When I was watching

I remember when he debuted Edge I love Edge I love Eddie Guerrero Sina Of course Like Taker, Kane RVD

Booker Rock obviously Stone Cold Man all those guys There's so many big names back then too I feel like you just listed off Everybody in the Attitude area You might have left off

Randy Morton but other than that I feel like. No, Randy was a young boy when I started watching. I remember he was like, he was like, yeah, like a rookie. Remember he had the really long hair when he first got to be. I remember that. Yeah, he was like a rookie. Then he got injured. He was like a rookie. I remember that. I think one of the biggest things with you is when your name gets brought up, everybody goes, mellows the future. Cool. Does that put pressure on you or does that make you excited for what's possible. No, I put his question on me. It just holds high expectations. And I love it in that way. Like, it's not a bad thing at all. Like, it's a super compliment. But I do understand that in a lot of

fans' eyes and a lot of other people's eyes, they're just looking at me kind of like, oh, everybody says, man, they're looking for faults. And it's hard. It's tough. You know what I mean? Because it's like, you just want to go out and do what you do and you don't want to be super microscoped. But it comes with the job and it comes with, you know, the pressure of that. And I'd rather that than saying, you know, he's underrated or whatever. I'd rather people that rate me properly. Because I truly do believe I am in the future. And it's nice to know that your peers aren't the same of me.

You just came into WWE at such an interesting time. Like when you were in the PC, you're one of the few people in the PC at that time who has a background in wrestling. Like you were an indie star. And there's a lot of people in the PC at that time who are collegiate athletes or, you know, something along those lines. how different was that being in the PC where you've got this background

but maybe you're not what they're looking for at that time maybe you're not what they're recruiting. Sure. Yeah, I was one of few. There wasn't a lot. It wasn't too many, especially now. It's even fewer. But I knew, you know, it was a lot of people, you know, could look at that, like being envious

that they didn't have to go through what I had to go through. But truly, I was not envious at all because I'm like, I felt leaps and bounds ahead. Like I've gotten so many cool experiences that I feel like, like I've been in most situations before that set me up for success in WWE. So, you know, a lot of them are experiencing things for the first time. I'm like, man, I got my, I got my butt kicked about five times for missing up,

messing up something. Like, this is nothing, you know, or I've been in this position before in a match where something goes wrong or, you know, their experience it for the first time on live TV. Thankfully, I got to experience it in front of 50 people, you know what I'm saying, for 50 bucks. But no, it's just, it's one of those things where I root for everybody because I understand like, this is not easy, man. It's just not easy. And if you're willing to give up your life for this, because it is that, bro, like it's 24-7. And, you know, I commend these guys coming in

and opening up to a new world. This is a new world, man. It really is. I can relate in a small way because when I started my broadcasting career, I was on a small TV station, Peterborough, Ontario, Canada. I was making a ton of mistakes. But I was making a ton of mistakes. But I was making mistakes in front of nobody, right? So it didn't matter. And I feel like that's kind of the blessing of being able to do this on the Indies. You're messing up, but people are kind of more forgiving because they know the next time they see you, you'll be that much better. Yes. Yes. So when you look at these matches with you and Ilya Draganoff, these are like intense. These are stiff. What's the conversation like before you get in the ring with him? Because it sure feels like

you guys are giving it to each other. There's no conversation. It's just what's understood is understood. You know what I mean? He's so fantastic at what he does that there's like you almost have that expectation of, hey, I'm going to get in the rain. It's not going to be a night off, not like anybody has nights off in wrestling, but it's not going to be you're going to fight for your life and in a good way.

You know what I mean? Because those are the matches that are most highly regarded, you know, my matches, especially like people love those matches. So to me, it's like whatever we got to do. Like, F it, we ball. Like, let's go all out. And what happens, happens, and they're happy. I'm happy.

Mello doesn't miss, right? Right. Does Bronbreaker spear you just a little bit harder than he spears everybody else? I am three and no on him, so, I mean, I don't blame it. It just feels like the spears that he hits on you. I don't know if maybe it's just the way you take them, but they sure seem very hard. Yeah, that's brown, man. I don't know.

But, I mean, the matches that you've had with him are incredible. Thank you. How sick are you of people talking about Mello and the main roster? Because you get it every day, I'm sure. Yeah. I'm not sick of it, but it's just kind of like I wish people would just appreciate the time that I'm in right now. and stop trying to future book me. You know what I mean?

Just like, let's live in the moment. Because I've been able to do that. And if I can do that, y'all can do that. I'm super excited for what's to come. A year ago, I was like, you know, a little bit antsy about it. And then I realized I said, you know what, let me just embrace this spirit in my life. Because, you know, we're going to have all those moments down the road.

But, you know, this period right now, you only get this one time, you know, I mean, to come up, you know, the rise. And I've been grateful enough to be in such a great position. in the next C where it's truly been an uphill rise. So I couldn't complain if I wanted to do. So I just want fans to just enjoy this process right now and seeing me grow. Because, you know, once you get to the main roster, it's like started from scratch. It's like a baby. Yeah.

So, you know, this form of Carmelo Hayes is probably not going to be the same form of Carmelo Hayes on the main roster. So it's like, let's just enjoy this now while it's there. Let's fantasy book you in the past. Okay. So you just listed off a bunch of incredible names that you watched growing up. Yeah. If it was, you know, if they were in their prime still active,

who's the match you want to have with somebody that you watched growing up? Probably Eddie Guerrero. Yeah, I love Eddie, man. I just love Eddie. And then obviously, you know, Sean, you know, like, obviously rock. I could just, I could go all day. Yeah, I can go out there. But, like, I want to wrestle all of those guys.

But if somebody that's not here, that I think I would have a great match for me, would be Eddie. I love that. I love that experience. I ask guys, like, how it was it? He's working with Eddie like. Yeah, I mean, I always ask guys that. And Sean still take a bump.

Does he take bumps in the PC? Dude. No, he doesn't. But if he broke, he says something to me one time, the best quote he ever said to me one time. He said, you know, if I want to, I'll tape up my knees and run circles around all you guys. And I believed him.

And I believed him. And he could. I physically think he could. He said he's like, have the will to do it. But I physically, you know what I mean? I don't know. But I have the will to do it. damn you're sick

he's he's the go for a reason you know he could I'm telling you I think he could is there something you've picked up from Sean that you can look back at your matches

now that you go oh that is a direct result of something I learned from him probably subconsciously yeah like creating moments and things like that and like I said

facials and stuff Like, because if you look at Sean prior to, you know, like before he came back and worked with Hunter in 2002, he was kind of a different worker. His back-end stuff was a lot more of like selling and fished and stuff. And then early on he was just running and gunning. So like I try to get the best of both worlds. But one thing I have to understand is like it's an accumulation of years and years and years of equity, especially TV equity, that allowed him to work a certain way. So there's certain things that I see with Sean, with any guys. You got to realize that those guys put in so much time,

so they're allowed to work that way. That makes sense. I'm not saying too much, but there's a lot of things that, like, I'll watch from old Sean that, like, I try to see. And I'm like, oh, okay, I see why he did that. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's good. Try not to take too much from certain guys because I don't ever want to be compared. But there's a lot of subconscious things that I do that Sean had taught me.

I can't pinpoint it, but there is things that I do. I'm going to put you on the spot here. What's your favorite Sean match? You know what? An underrated match, man. I loved him and Jeff Jarrett. I really enjoyed that match. A lot of people don't give that match.

That is a deep cut. That's a deep cut, man. I really enjoyed that match. I mean, he has so many. I love that version of Sean. And then obviously, you know, his match with Taker, like for the storytelling, his match with Kurt. You know, you really can get into that.

And it's so funny, he can still joke about it. He's like, I don't know why they show. You know, here at the PC, they show you guys, me and Taker, it's like, we had 30 years, you know, he's like, tell you guys to do it like this when we had 30 years of, you know what I mean, of building up our names. Like, you guys can't do this for another 20-something years. But, yeah. What was it like the first time you ever walked into the PC? I felt like I belonged. I felt like I was coming.

I did. I truly did. Like, I felt like I belonged there. I didn't feel out of place. I was like, here we go. Like, this is what I, this is what you dream of. You know what I mean? It was like, this is like the goal.

It felt like I achieved something, but it also felt like I was just starting something. You know what I mean? Like, it was like, I'm here at the beginning. I made it to the end, right? But also at the same time, but I'm here at the beginning. So I felt like I was allowing myself to shed that skin that I had before.

Like, I wasn't going to come in like I knew this, I knew that I was just free, like giving myself up to them. Like, okay, just teach me from scratch how you want me to do it, and I will do it that way. I thought it was so cool to see you in the ring with Cody Rhodes, like to make sure that he would have the clearance to be able to wrestle again. How were you selected as that guy? So I know Cody had, like, he'd been reaching out and helping me out

and giving me, like, little pointers and telling me things are good and giving me, like, you know, just talking to me a little bit. about certain matches prior to that. And then I know he was getting ready to come back from the Rumble. And he had picked Joe Gacy and myself to kind of work around with him. I think it had a lot to do with, you know, Joe Gacy being a little bit bigger, me being a little bit more agile and faster. And then obviously, Cody, you know, just wants to get a known.

Us, younger talent and stuff like that. But it was a huge genre. And like I said in his documentary, I didn't feel like I was helping him. I felt like he was helping me. He was fine. He was chilling. But I was like, oh, my God. okay, all right, this is how these guys do it.

This is such a difference. When you get in there with guys like that, it's such a difference. Like you're like, oh, this is that pacing. This is that, you know what I mean? This is that energy. This is where you turn it up here. Like, I learned a lot with Cody. I really did.

Yeah, is there's, like, can you put it into words? Is it a tangible thing that is different when you're on that level that someone like Cody's on? Experience. He's been to the mount top. You know what I mean? He's been, he's done wrestling. You know, he's done, he's been all around the world. Just kind of over time, you just kind of learned to, sorry to explain.

I think you just, you learn your, I see it with a lot of experienced talent on main roster, too. Like even Becky, I watch Becky closely when she's performing at NXC. And I just see all the things that takes years for you to learn and understand. And I see it, I'm like, oh, okay, that's why she does that. Okay, yeah, like she turns it up there. She slows it down here. Like, man, I'm a student of the game. I really end.

And I study a lot of those guys and that bent to the mountain top and what makes them, you know, so successful. I'm sure being a student of the game, you watch a lot of wrestling, not just live, but you watch a lot of wrestling, period. I mean, it's so accessible now, right? What would you say is the match that you rewatch the most? Good question. That's a good question. I really love all the Eddie Guerrero stuff he did with certain people, you know what I mean? He had a lot of great matches with certain people.

I don't, there's not one particular match that I watch a lot. I'll tell you why. I try not to watch too much wrestling because I don't ever want to take things from certain people and become too similar to them. You know, that's something where it's like, you don't want to, like I said, I don't want to be compared. You know, I love all these guys, but I want to be like, he's the second or he's the next or he reminds me of, like, I don't want that.

Really don't. Like, I want to be a hybrid of, you know, everything that I do. And I want to almost create my own style. Like I want down the road people to be like, oh, like, for example, I want to wrestle like Carmelo A's. As opposed to being like, I want to wrestle like so-and-so-so-and-so. So I'm trying to mold my own style.

And I try not to get too much influence by so many people. But I try to pick the little things and not so much to be. I'm curious, you know, being a student of the game and you're taking notes on these. Are these mental notes? Are these notes up here? Or like, do you have like a note section in your iPhone where you're like, oh, this is a thing I want to do or try. I come up with a lot of things in my, like,

when I'm trying to fall asleep, I come up with a lot of things. Oh, isn't that the worst? I know, I know. But you know what? I love that because then the next day I'm like, I saw this in the dream. I want to try stuff. People were like the hair.

That's how I came up with a lot of my mootset. You know what I mean? And it's not just about the moves, but like I also think about the moments and the feel, like what would I really feel in that moment, things like that. But I do also. I also write it down.

Like when I talk to like the OGs and stuff and they give me good stuff, like I'll make sure I write it down to show like, hey, one, I really care about what you're saying. Two, I'm going to make sure I never forget this. So I have a notepad with different people that I've talked to and different things I've been giving. There was a video that I think you posted of John Cena backstage with you and Trick and he's wearing your glasses and putting you guys over. Did that just kind of randomly happen?

Yeah, he's cool, man. He just was like, whatever, yeah, sure. Like, you can, because people forget that. That dude was like the coolest, man. So, so funny when they're like on the tail end where they're just kind of like, I used to be this back in the day. I'm like, dude, Doug Anami's, that was so cool.

Like I told him that before I said, can we do the bang bang and then do the Thuganomis thing? He thought about it first. He was like, yeah. I was like, let's go. But I'm thinking, I'm like, what you're thinking about, man? That shit was cool.

There's a lot of fans that saw that moment with The Undertaker and putting the arm up as kind of a passing of the, torch moment. Do you see it as that? I don't know. I mean, I just was cool to be in that moment. You know, it's hard to say, like, when you're in it and it's you, it's different. You know what I mean? I'm sure it's like other people can interpret things like from the outside perspective on the inside. To me, it was like, it was business. It was like, this is what we're doing. You know, you don't get too caught up in

the, what does this mean? It's just mean I'm the next guy. Like, we don't get caught up in that because we got TV next Tuesday. And Johnson is not going to be there and the othertaker is not going to be you know what I'm saying so it's like we don't get caught up in those things I know a lot of fans do and that's awesome you know what I mean I love that for them but truly as entertainers and as you know being those guys in there and pros like we have to focus on what what we got to do so I don't get caught up in any of that that was freaking cool as hell I can't deny that but you know if I'm the guy or whatever whatever that's not on my mind just thinking about all right we got to tv next Tuesday let's kill that and let's focus on me if there's someone watching this right now

that just watches the main roster. And they know who you are, but maybe they haven't seen a Carmelo Hayes match. What match they need to go watch right now to see what you're all about? There's two matches. Okay. Bring it.

An earlier Carmelo Hayes match would probably be the one with Rickettshire. I feel like that was a test match in a way. Like, hey, you know, this kid really, is you really like that? And I hung up to the soul with Rickettsay, and I think that I showcased myself, in a positive way.

And then the match I had with Dragonoff, I'll probably say the first one, Great American Bash. You know, we beat the hell out of each other. And, you know, it was a good match that I feel like showed a different side of Carmelo A's as opposed to, like, such a flashy and, you know what I mean, that type of style.

So those two matches, Ricochet and Ilya Dragoff, Great American Match. Both great matches, such good matches. When I put out on Twitter that I was going to be sitting down with you today, Everyone's like, you got to ask him, why did he attack Trick Williams? Right. Why did I do it when there's no proof that I did it?

What a crazy question. I'm telling you, man, it feels like a witcher. It's crazy. I post a thing with my girl or on a birthday. People are like, oh, happy birthday. But also, why did you attack Trick? It's like, can I live? Can I live, Chris?

I mean, listen, like, people just stay tuned, man. Like, you know, I'm holding my ground on now. I'm staying on my business. You know, I'm in the scene on that. And, you know, people are going to owe me to an apology. I would never do that to my boy, especially not over a championship. Yeah. There it is.

You heard it, people. Man. It's just so exciting to be able to be talking to you right now, Halloween Havoc right around the corner. But I just feel like the future is so, so bright for you right now. Thank you, Chris. But one day at a time, man, one day of time, you know what I mean? So, Mello, I end every.

conversation talking about gratitude because it's such a big part of my life you've mentioned it during this interview and I love that so you've already teed me up for this what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now I'm grateful for my health great for my mindset and I'm grateful for just the people around me and the positive support that I have and and the love that I get from a lot of people you know what I mean it keeps me motivated I mean there's so much more I go down I go over things and I'm grateful every single day to myself so it's like I can keep going but definitely those three things for sure i love that what's the say around your neck by the way it's one of one yeah one of one because i am you are him him our brother so good to see you likewise chris

good be you man great talk though thanks man this is great it's all right all right my friends there we go i've been saying this for a while but the future of wrestling is looking very very bright when you think of all the talent who are 30 years old or younger. And I would start listing off some names right now, but it's a very long list. And I would inevitably leave off a few people. So I will just leave it at there is a ton of people that are 30 years and younger, including Carmelo Hayes,

who are going to take pro wrestling into the future. And we're going to be quite all right. And I'm sure there's a few names that pop into your head immediately right now. one of them is the AEW champion, but there's a ton of other ones. Great conversation with Carmelo and man, he's 29 years old. There is so, so much potential. And I just can't wait to see what he's going to do, not just on the main roster. And I think that this happens a lot with NXT people.

I think that when male or female, NXT superstars are in NXT, people just go, well, I can't wait until they're on the main roster. Well, let's continue to just. Enjoy the work that Carmelo and everybody else in NXT is doing right now. And yes, I'm sure the main roster is going to come at some point in time. But man, he's tearing it up right now. And let's appreciate that. If you enjoy this episode, please share it out.

Snap us screenshot and share it on social media and tag us so we can share it as well. He's at Carmelo underscore WW. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I'll leave you with this quote from John F. Kennedy. You know I love gratitude. So it's a quote about gratitude. As we express our gratitude, we must never forget that the highest appreciation is not just to utter words, but to live by them. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight with Eric Rowan.

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