Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chad Gable: El Grande Americano, Mask vs. Mask, Intercontinental Champ, Penta, Kurt Angle

Episode Date: October 8, 2026

Get tickets for the next Insight LIVE! https://cvvtix.com Chad Gable (@wwegable) is a professional wrestler and the WWE Intercontinental Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Minneapolis, MN to discuss his Intercontinental Championship win at SummerSlam, becoming El Grande Americano and the epic mask vs. mask match in AAA, now hitting the prime of his in-ring career, wrestling Kurt Angle, being Penta's first WWE opponent, the rumors that Ludwig Kaiser might be the other El Grande Americano, why he hired fitness coach Jay Ferruggia to help with his diet and workouts and more! Please support our sponsors: SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount SUPERPOWER: Head to https://superpower.com and use code CVV at checkout for $20 off your membership. Get 100+ biomarkers tested every year, plus a personalized health plan and on-demand care team. Detect early signs of 1,000+ conditions. #superpowerpod HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee! What a spot you have here. Welcome. Thank you. The chat. Not many people have been in here, my friend. I'm honored. You're one of the first, so this is my baby.

This is amazing. You told me you turned the heat down for us. Yeah. So what's it normally like me? We don't want to smoke you out too early. We've got a workout to do later. And that's the thing. So we're going to do a workout later.

Please don't kill me. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what a Chad gave a workout. looks like, but that'll be up on your YouTube channel after this. Yes, we'll post that on my YouTube. We'll see what you can, uh, what kind of work you can get done in here today. I don't even know if people know you have a YouTube channel. So I'm glad we're putting that out there.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I did, uh, started it last year when I documented my injury and my rehab process and my comeback. So for those that don't know, I got my degrees in like digital cinema, filmmaking. This is like a second passion of mine. So I use that as a chance to edit this whole like little documentary series. together that I kind of shot, produced, edited all on my own, filled my time creatively during that

injury period, which was great. And then we've got it all up on YouTube now and we'll continue to be adding stuff there going forward, including your session today. So I can't wait. So your YouTube channel is under your real name if people are looking for it. And we'll also link it down below. Thank you. Yes, jazz bets. My real name, yeah. Why is this called The Shack? So this gym originated in my old house up a little bit north of here 20 minutes. And I used to work out there every day with Otis. Religiously, it was like our thing, man, every single day. And I didn't have an official name for it yet.

It was just in my garage gym. And I was contemplating names. And he'd come over every day and just he'd be like, well, I'm on my way over to the shack. Like, it's not called the shack. To me, it would just sounded so trashy and just so dim. Angie and that's not what I wanted. And he just kept saying, I'm on my way to the shack. I'm on my way to the shack.

Dazzle, what time should I show up to the shack? I called you Babe too. Yeah, babe. Babe, what time we're meeting at the shack today? I just gave up. I just gave in. And now I love it. And now it's like my favorite.

I added the extra K to it to give it a little flare or the spelling. I don't know how he would spell it. I can't imagine. But I will give full credit. He came up with that name. When you look around here, you can tell that, like, you love this type of equipment. Like, this stuff is like it's curated. Yes.

So to me, I treat it like an art museum for fitness, right? Just like you said, every piece in here is curated, carefully selected. I've used every piece before I got it because I know what works for me, what feels good for me. And as I got a little bit older in training and more matured and developed, you realize that like it's not all about barbells and dumbbells at certain points, especially as you get older and your joints need specific treatment. So I learned which machines work well for me and those are the ones I picked. They're not going to work well for everybody. And I'm also not like a zealot in the sense that like one brand is like, I only buy that brand of equipment. A lot of people are like that.

Like, some brands make really good chest pieces. Some brands make really good pole pieces. And some are trash. And some are really good at one thing and trash at another. I think you have to be able to, like, see the disparity there and, like, be willing to do that. Otherwise, it's like, come on, yes. You know. I know you like to train hot.

Yeah. Like the heat would be cranked way up in here. Like, how hot are we talking? Misery, miserably hot. Like, to the point where the temperature. I usually keep it in here when I bring people in just to show them because sometimes people want to see like my in-laws, for example, I brought them down here when I did some updates. And my mother-in-law will like walk in and she's just like like she's out, you know,

like won't even bother spending a few minutes in here. It's that hot. Like a sauna? I mean, it's not 150 degrees. No, but with the humidity because I don't, I keep it super humid in here as well. It's just miserable. You know, it's like it's not for a normal person. it's not fond of train in here. But for me, it's like heaven in here. I love it.

Why is that your comfort zone? I think it just stems back to amateur wrestling and the torture we were always put through, whether it's saunas, anyone that's ever been in an amateur wrestling room knows it has a certain smell. It has a certain feel and a certain type of breathing that you are and aren't able to do in those things. It's a thickness in that air. And I love that thickness. It almost sounds to me like you are comfortable being uncomfortable. Yes. It almost, I don't know if this sounds weird, but it's like, unless you're a certain degree of uncomfortable, I don't feel like I'm accomplishing anything, right?

Like, if there's just too high of a level of comfort, it's like, what are we really getting done here? For better or for worse. I'm not saying that that's a good thing, but that's how my mind works. Jim Rome takes on sports. Everybody pointed out the obvious Harbaugh connection and everybody, as it turns out, was right because 9 is officially now a New York giant. You know, you talk about selling low. Even the 9 has got a fourth for Trey Lance.

He's out of the building. We will take that fifth pick and we will surely turn it into something more valuable than 9 ever was to this organization. The Jim Rome Show podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Are you able to take a step back right now and realize that? that you're in a really special moment in your career right now. Yes. I think I'm only able to do that

because it's happening this far along in my career. If this had happened when I was three, four years in, I don't think I'd realize what I kind of had in my hands. Right now, I'm at a place where I can take that bird's eye view just because of having gone through all these other things in my career. So I actually consider myself, really fortunate that it took this long for something like this to happen because it's like,

I appreciate it all that much more. I really do. Well, it's the peaks and valleys, right? Yeah. Does the run that you're on right now being intercontinental champion feel as sweet if it's not for something like Shorty G happening? Definitely not. Thanks for the reminder. Is that a super spot?

No, it's funny. Like, I was going through like different phases of my career the other day for a different project I'm doing and like the shorty G. era came up and I'm like documenting what happened and I'm like man do I want to include this or not like but you have to because without those it's like nothing will ever feel as special as it should because you have it's a cliche but like yeah you don't realize how good the good stuff is without the bad stuff and I mean let's be fair like it wasn't that bad it's just a character that nobody really identified with and didn't really resonate it's not like it was this it wasn't torture for me you know just like just not something I'm particularly proud of. I'm fascinated by the idea that if this thing doesn't happen, then this other thing can't happen after that. You're probably not in this position now,

if not for your shoulder injury. Like crazy that it took an injury and then being away to put you on the trajectory that you're on now. The amount of circumstances that led to the mask-vers mask match and then the ensuing things that happened after that are just like almost unfathomable to think about at this point the way they lined up to your point um it's the kind of stuff you can't write even if you wanted to you know it's just happenstance it's just to me at the end of the day then it tells me

even more reason that i can stop believing in coincidence it's like some things were just meant to be, things were meant to play out a certain way, and that's out of our control. I'm no longer a believer in coincidence. Things were building for you, and then you got injured. So what are you thinking in that moment? Are you thinking, oh, my gosh, I may never get back to this again? Yes. I would say right before I got injured, I was having what I would call the peak of my career, right?

And, I mean, creatively as well, I was just so fulfilled. I was doing all this awesome stuff. Had to wrestle like twice in one day in L.A. that day on two epic shows, you know? So that was Worlds Collide and Money in the Back? Yes, yes. And I mean, how rare is a performer now that you get to do that? It was like this whirlwind day or you do that match and then hop in a car, drive across town,

go to this other building, do another epic match. And it's like it all came crumbling down. And it was like one of those stories you hear about where it's like right at the peak, the bottom just fell out. And it doesn't get much more tragic for a guy like me who values progress and, you know, achievement at such a high level. And I feel like I was doing that. And it just all came to a halt. And I didn't have a choice at that point.

I was told this needs to get fixed. And I was of the mindset that like, well, let's just ride until the wheels fall off. Like, I'm fine. I wrestled after it was hurt. You know, I did a speed match as I wrestled AJ Stiles after I was hurt. So I was like, for all intents and purposes, I can continue wrestling. They're like, no. Like, it's, you have to get this fixed.

And it wasn't until, you know, much later, I realized that these people are far wiser than I am when it comes to this stuff. And they were right. And I, yeah, and I actually was hurting quite a bit, you know, and I can't put my bag in the overhead and all this. But all that to say, like, these things, you finally, you feel like you have a grasp on something you've chased for so long that if it gets taken from you, it's hard to let go, man.

So how did the injury happen? So I was wrestling Bikingo at that World's Collide show, and I had my arm posted on the ring apron, and you can see a point in the match where he'll do like a 630 insanity to the floor on me, on my back. And my arm was posted in a way on the ring apron that when he came down on my back, then also it stretched my arm,

but my arm stayed where it was. and I could feel it. I felt it. You know, I've never torn a mussel or anything like that before. So it was new to me. So I knew something happened. Obviously, we do the match. Adrenaline carries you through.

And then it was just like a fully cortisol-filled day because I had to run across and do that money-in-the-bank match as well. So I never gave it a chance to really settle in because it's just like we got stuff to do here, man. And then there was some pretty gnarly bumps in the money-in-the-bank match. as well, that took their toll, had a steak with my mom and dad that night, probably a glass of wine, went to sleep, woke up the next day, and man, like, I remember, I don't know that I've ever felt that level of, like, fragility that I felt the next day, almost like any little thing I did,

I was going to just ruin myself, like super fragile, you know? And that's when I knew something, something was wrong. How long did they tell you you'd be out for? Six months was the rough estimate, and I think I was ready in four and a half. Certainly ready by five, but probably four and a half. But the momentum, like, immediately comes to a halt. Yeah. Like everything that you were building on just stops.

Yeah. And there's no promise that it's going to pick back up when you're back from injury either. No. No. And, you know, you can be told things and plans and all this. And I have good faith in all the people that I talk to that tell me what's in store for me. But you never know, like you said, what's going to take off, what's going to catch on in your absence, and it's going to make you change directions. So obviously it leads to that time at home being a little bit anxiety filled and you get a ton of fomo feeling like you need to be a part of this stuff that you're watching.

character you created has then been transformed and transcended onto somebody else. They're running with it to a degree of success that, to their credit, I don't think anybody expected. And what it did, fortunately for me, it didn't create any jealousy. It created just like this competitive fire that I'd think, I mean, if you're coming up against me, it's one of my strongest assets is my competitive fire. willingness to not, I'm not a hater. I don't look down on anyone else's success, but I will challenge you and I will try to be better than you. So you talk about big bumps in that money in the bank match.

There's one where you climb up the ladder, it goes to the other ladder, you have a spot with Penta, and then L.A. Knight at a nowhere, suplexes you off the top of the ladder. Still feeling that one. And now we're learning that you were injured while that happened. Yep. That was, that one, jarred me and but at that point dude you know you're like you're so deep into the day and such a crazy day that it's kind of just another thing at the moment you know and maybe that was the one that I was talking about where the next day I just was like it caught up it all caught up with me but yeah I mean that matches a spectacle man there's no reason to go into that and not deliver right I mean I've had a couple moments in those things that are like I look back out of now

Holy crap, but there's going to be, hopefully if I luck out more to come. The margin for error on that spot is like time, right? Because you're on this one ladder that needs to teeter over to the other ladder perfectly. You've got to climb up that with a certain amount of speed. Yeah. I mean, I guess the positive in that is like if it ends not the way you intended it to, it's probably still going to look crazy in some way or another. Maybe not for your benefit, but either way, it's going to be pure carnage at the end of it, right?

What a spot, though. Did you know you'd be able to pull that off live? I was pretty confident, yeah. You know, you have enough of the right professionals and players in there that you can count on to do their part. And those matches are, they're intimidating, but you have to go into them with expectation that everybody's going to deliver. And everybody did. And you just get magic out of those things. So I don't know if this gets talked about enough, but Al Gore,

Ronnie Americano, that's a character you came up with. Sure. I think there's this idea that this was given to you and make, make with it what you can. How'd you come up with this? So I was doing some stuff with some of the luchadors in, I think, like, September, October of that year, beginning to as Chad Gable. And I thought, man, we can get a lot out of this, I think, a lot more than we are right now. We can turn this into something special.

and I thought of this idea of like donning a mask, right, and kind of using it to insult their culture, get more personal with this rather than just go out and have matches with these guys. Because the matches are going to be great. We can do the great matches, but to make it special, we have to find a way to elevate it. And that was an idea to elevate it.

And then when the right people got the heed of the idea and kind of thought, this might work, then they started to contribute. and it made it even better, right? Creative team, Hunter, all these people. Like, my concept was there, the genesis of it, but I needed all this other help to, like,

really formulate it into what it became. So the original idea is just to get heat. To get heat. And I think maybe some people thought that it was going to be like a comedy character or something. I don't think we ever presented it as that. And it was never the intention. It was never supposed to be, like, funny.

You know, entertaining, sure. But no, it was never a ha-ha, a funny type thing. I think it was kind of mean-spirited to jab at these guys, to give them a reason to really come after me and insult an entire culture of wrestling to get some heat. And I think it worked. It's interesting that you say that it was never intended to be a commentate gimmick because I think that there's this perception that, like,

this was just a joke gimmick that was given to you. Man, what happened to Chad Gable? Yeah. What's going on here? Yeah, no, not at all. You'd find some of the best performers, I think, people that I've looked up to and that deserve a lot of credit in our business are famous for reinventing themselves and constantly giving themselves new avenues, new gimmicks, and new ways to approach their character they already have. So I'd be remiss if I didn't learn from them and try to do that myself. So there's just an example of that, you know? So where was this story with El Grande Americado headed if you didn't get injured? Well, I mean, it unfortunately took its own kind of detour at WrestleMania that year when I was supposed to wrestle Ray Mysterio and he got hurt.

And this was going to kind of be a crescendo, right? He got hurt the night before. The night before on Smackdown. Is there a moment where you're like, I might not have a WrestleMania match now? Sure. I mean, I didn't find out until, you know, hours before. I was doing cardio in Vegas that morning, I remember, of the Ray Phoenix match and still unaware of what we were going to do.

And I think I was up all. I don't think I slept that night, you know, because it's like, man, I was going to wrestle Ray. And, like, he was, like, one of my heroes growing up. And it kind of, another thing to slip through my fingers, you know, like, I had such high hopes. And I don't know he did, too. And, like, Ray was so gracious.

And, like, looking forward to that. match so much that I'm just on the treadmill that morning. I must have been like 4.30 in the morning. Like just like what are we going to do? And then finally like we found the solution or they found the solution and it worked out great. Like got an awesome opportunity for Phoenix. We still got on the show and the character got to continue to evolve. And what a match too. Yeah. It was great. Phoenix steps up, has his WrestleMania debut. Yeah. You guys have an incredible match that kind of all figured itself out. Yeah. So then where was it going to be? ahead from there if you don't get injured.

So from there, I continued kind of this assault, right, on the whole Lucha Libre culture and all this stuff and did it as both characters. Like Chad Gable was also in on this, you know? With the Vekingo, you can even see all the insults and things I was hurling at him during the match. And so it was just a matter of like continuing to gain momentum as this character and prove like this whole farce that I, I, I was. It was the best luchador in the world, right?

Like, how insulting to all these guys. We have, like, the best roster of luchadors that you could even ever, a dream couldn't come up with these guys. And I'm here claiming to be the best. I just love it, man. I mean, we could have gone down any avenue we wanted. It would have been great. So then when you get injured, how do you find out that the character's going to continue,

but it's not going to be you under the mask? I watched it play out. and on a weekly basis grew more and more competitively driven to come back and take my character back. At the same time, really kind of grateful for the new Grande carrying it on the way he did, because who knows what would have happened to that character had it just been forgotten until I came back. You know, it may have gotten lost in the shuffle. and never got back to any point of importance, you know what I mean?

So all credit in the world to him for not just keeping it alive because he didn't just keep it alive. He made it thrive. Yeah, the second Algrante Americano was given this character that, for all intents and purposes, probably shouldn't have worked.

Yeah. And he took it and ran with it and has now turned it into something of his own. It's like all credit to him. Yes, I am never, ever short or hesitant to give him all the credit in the world to adapt. And it's funny because sometimes people will get, maybe they'd call it saddled with something that they didn't want or that they don't think's going to work or it doesn't fit their personality.

He did the opposite. He just took it and ran with it to a degree that, like, it's admirable. Like, it's professionally and creatively, it just totally admirable. And all credit in the world to him, man, because not many people would do that. Well, things work in wrestling when people commit like 100%. Sure. And he has absolutely committed to this. Yeah.

There's even a difference to like accepting it and just like kind of giving it your best, if you want to say that, and like full commitment like you're saying. I mean, submersing yourself in the culture, learning the language, the girlfriend, everything. I mean, everything. He's a luchador now. You know, in every sense of the word. Have you heard the crazy rumor online that Al Grande Americano might be Ludwig Kaiser?

Ludwig? Yeah. I don't see it. I haven't seen him for a while, but I don't see it. Yeah, we haven't seen him in a while, but I hope he's doing okay. He's a great guy. But that's just a crazy rumor. People come up with all kinds of weird things online.

Internet's a wild place. It's a wild place. So when you do return at the Royal Rumble, you have this. this great moment where it's Al Grande and Al Grande facing off and you do the Spider-Man meme. Yeah. We had to, right? You had to. Super cool moment just to finally meet face-to-face, especially like having that be my official

comeback, right? Yeah, it was awesome. And it was a great starting point for us to paint that picture that we're going to be, we're going to be headed down the same path, collision course towards each other. and we both, I think, in our heads, had a very, very special intention for this story. There's something different about the Chad Gable that's wrestling in 2026.

Your intensity is an 11 out of 10 now. What's been the intentional change for you? The intentional change has been getting out of my head a little bit and letting myself come out through the character, my history, where I came from my roots in Greco-Roman wrestling and amateur wrestling, that mentality that I think for whatever reason I had let kind of fade into the background for a while. And I don't know fully why if I thought that coming into pro wrestling that, well, that

stuff doesn't apply so much anymore. I don't need that intensity. I don't need that sense of aggression and anger that I would take with me into an amateur match. That's just not true. I mean, if you, I was then kind of taught almost by Undertaker, or at least he's the one that coaxed it out of me, that that stuff can be so valuable. And it turns out to be maybe the most valuable thing I ever learned. So would you say working with AAA is what like really started to change things for you?

Sure. I think I was really, so I've had coaches my whole life, whether it's my high school coaches, Greco-Roman coaches. that I've always looked up to and wanted to appease, and I wanted to make them happy and satisfied with my performance. That's been a goal of mine. It's just bred into me from amateur wrestling. It's something a trait that I not always serve me well, but it's just that's part of me. And that was happening with Undertaker in AAA.

I don't feel like I was giving him what he was looking for for the longest time down there, and it bothered the hell out of me. like deep down to my core like it taught me a lot about myself actually like self-realization about who I'm trying to please and why and all these things and but I made it a mission I'm like no I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna show him that I can give him what he's looking for and it was that night that I did the first brawl like ringside brawl with the other el grande where he finally convinced me like let just let it go just show me who you are yeah that felt real

It's as real as it gets for me. So he opened my eyes that night. And I think I opened my own eyes to what I'm capable of. And it's just a matter of maintaining that and not letting it slip back away. What do you feel when people say that mask versus mask is the match of the year? I mean, it's what we do is subjective, right? And it's the highest compliment to me that people think of it in those terms. I always try to not focus so much on the accomplishment or what I've done,

but the process and the journey, who I'm becoming in this process and what's next. So it's great. It's really nice to have these compliments, especially. I think some of the highest compliments I always paid were from my peers, right, that told me not how great the match was, but the way it made them feel. that reminded them what they loved about wrestling growing up. It made them feel the way they did when they were kids. That to me is the highest compliment,

because that's what I'm seeking in wrestling now, is to feel the way I felt when I watched Matron Man and Warrior, you know, at WrestleMania 6 with all the drama with Miss Elizabeth and all these things. That's the kind of stuff that fueled me to want to do this. So if I can give that to other people, then I feel like I'm really doing my job. When you were building the story towards mask versus mask,

did you realize you had the potential here to do something really special in that? Yes. It took a while. I think it took a while, but all the credit to the Mexican fans and the audience for buying into the story, getting into it, and contributing to the way that they did. Because without them,

I don't think it would have felt as big as a big as it did. They deserve a lot of that credit. Just what a genuine wrestling-loving audience. And, man, it was so cool to be a part of that. And just to be able to feel energy like that and buildings every night and like palpable stuff that like, man, it just fuels you.

You know, it's awesome. There's a video of you walking into the arena for Mask versus Max. And the fans are berating you. Yeah, yeah. They hate you. Yeah, dude, it was like the wild. out west a bit down there sometimes because kind of different set of rules at times down there.

So we're doing some of those. And like people are pushing me and getting in hand. And I'm pushing them back. And I'm like, I don't know that we'd get away with this like everywhere, but like down here at school. And I mean, I had little kids like giving me the finger saying things that like I don't know that I

understood, but I think I get the gist that they probably shouldn't have been saying. It was awesome, man. It's like that's real. It felt great, dude. It felt really great. I love that when the music starts for your entrance, it's traditional Mexican music. They're not sure which Al Grande is coming out.

And then they realize it's you coming out. Yeah. Boom. Yeah. It was, whether it was the serenade that I interrupted of his or just arriving at the buildings or leaving the buildings, doing my entrance, anything. There was a real level of kind of kind of. disdain that you just felt the whole time. And I think I deserved it. I mean, I was,

I was a real jerk for a long time there and it was warranted. So they did their part. I did mine and I think we got some magic out of it. Have you watched back that match, about that match, mask versus mask? Not in its entirety. No, I am notorious with myself for never watching my stuff back, whether it's podcasts or matches, interviews, anything. I watched the post-match stuff back, the speech, things like that, mostly because I wanted to see my family and their reactions, because that was a bloody mess and I wanted to see how my kids handled it. That's pretty much the only reason. Other than that, I'm a kind of guy that kind of like I let to let art live. and I think what's done is done.

Watching it back is not going to change anything. So, no, I didn't watch it back in its entirety, but I can still say I'm pretty proud of it. Do you feel like it's for sure the best match you've ever wrestled? I think it was the most dramatic. I think I could say it's the most dramatic match I've ever wrestled, yes. It's special. Like, it's the storytelling in it that makes it so special.

Yes. It's kind of the best of everything that we do, I think, got a little bit in there, whether it's all these callbacks and characters that we had involved along the way, the actual wrestling in the match itself, and then some of the brutality. We got a little bit of blood, which we don't always get a little. We got a lot. You know, we get family and we get the girlfriend coming back to save the day, the romance. It's just like a movie playing out, you know, in a pro wrestling match. And to me, that's the peak of what we do. And the crowd is such a big character in that.

Yeah. Like, that match was amazing, but that crowd leveled it up so much. Again, I don't think none of that would have happened to the degree that it did without the crowd. Like, they were such a big part of it. And I don't know that I would have even ever found myself the way that I did if I did. didn't realize that you can get a reaction out of an audience like that. You know, they, they showed me what's possible. And I owe them like eternally for that.

Not only that, but like also their level of just forgiveness after the match, willingness to listen, give me my moment for the speech, as opposed to just booing me out of the building, which they very well could have done, was admirable. And yeah, just full of grace, man. They were totally gracious. So were you surprised by their reaction? They started cheering you after the match. Yeah.

That was a quick flip of the switch. It's a beautiful dichotomy, right? Sure. Because you go into that match. You're the most hated man in Mexico. Sure, yeah. And then you take the mask off and they're chanting your name. I think what it does is speaks to the respect that, like, the Lucha Libre fans have for the

performance side of what we do. You know, it's almost as if, to me, I almost felt like they were just saying thank you to me, you know, like for the story and all this stuff when really it should have been me thanking them for everything that they put into that. But it's just a mutual respect kind of generated in that building that night. Part of it probably has to do with like, well, we saw what this guy is willing to do. Like, I was a bloody mess. The family's there. And so you'd be hard pressed not to at least have a little respect for something. somebody when they do that. I mean, we see it all the time in sports and stuff. A guy could be a jerk

on interviews and stuff like that all the time. But when he goes out and he's an absolute warrior at what he does, it shows you how much it matters to him. So at the end of the day, you might hate the guy, but the performer, the guy that's doing his art, you can't help it, at least have a little respect for that. There's a funny moment in the ring after that match where you high five your daughter. Yeah. And she, and she's looking at her

hand because it's all bloody, right? You're a bloody high five. She's like, what am I supposed to do with this? That is so her personality perfectly to a T

wipes it on her brother, right? Yeah. She wiped it on her brother. And the funny thing is, that's her. And like, it doesn't surprise me

one bit, a perfect moment of brevity in a mat in a moment like that. If you even watch back, the other funny thing I like to point to with her is in the Gunther match, you see my older daughter crying in tears, that famous, like,

image of her bawling ringside, then that same daughter that wiped the blood on my son, she's, like, eating nachos and not even watching the match. She's just like, she just could not care less. And I'm like, I wouldn't have it any other way, you know, like, I don't, they're different personalities. It's just like, I love it so much. It's great. How old are your kids? They're 10, eight, and six. Wow. So how do you balance being in the peak of your career right now? You're obviously spending a ton of time eating right, working out, dialing in the workouts. How do you balance that and being a present father and present husband? It takes discipline, but you have to set times and restraints on yourself to say that like your time for your little self-care stuff

is done now. Like when you have kids, a lot of that stuff has to be set aside. And it just starts to become selfish when you take too much of it for yourself, you know? I had to let a lot of that go. And I think it's something I'm still dealing with as far as like, I put certain things on a pedestal as far as fitness, nutrition, all these things. I make matter to a degree that I think is too much. And I have a lot of guilt about that still very often to this day, every day.

Guilt that you're not doing enough? Guilt that I'm doing too much. I am doing too much. know that and guilt that I'm not giving some of that time elsewhere where it could be better spent specifically with my kids like you mentioned or just family in general or in other things. Other people that could benefit from it. But the balance is getting better. I will say that.

I mean, they've got so many sports and activities and things. It's like a nonstop deal. So it's almost like it's good because at a certain point I'm like forced to just get out of the gym or something. It's like I got to go to gymnastics practice. I got to bring them to wrestling practice or all. this stuff. And it's great because then it gives me time to just sit and what I've been also good at is like leaving my phone. So when I'm at these things, I'm just there. I'm just watching,

which is different than it used to be. She's like, well, let me plan the next thing. Let me plan the next thing. It's, it's vicious though, man. It's a cycle. But this is your office in here. Yeah. So like when that door is closed, did they know like, you know, don't bother dad, he's in the office? Pretty much. Yeah. The dude will come in once in a while and work out, which I'm cool with. First thing he does is rip his shirt off and start doing sit-ups. Sit-ups is his thing. He loves sit-ups. I hate sit-ups.

But, yeah, he comes down here and trains once in a while, which is super cool. But, yeah, I don't expect any of them in here. I don't ask them to come work out. Nothing. They know when I'm in here, it's getting done, man. Because I have a similar struggle. I have a home office, right? So, like, I'm accessible.

Sure. If the kids need me or want me, I'm right there. If I worked in an office building, I'd be gone until I came home later that day. So it's kind of different when you're 20 feet away and they could just walk over. They could. The great thing about this for me, not only is that like this is my little spot, right? My little piece of heaven right here. But when I'm done in here and I walk in, they're right there.

So like, there's no drive back and forth. There's no wasted time. I'm just here. I'm home. So it's another like. benefit of the home gym. Like home gym community is my thing, man. I love it.

But one of the big benefits is that. It's more time with them. And it's just, it gives me more of a chance to be present, you know, in general, overall. It's a difficult thing because you have these two forces up against each other. Your career is taking off in this trajectory. Also, family life is also taking off more activities. You know, your kids are getting older. They're involved in more things.

you've got to find a way to balance all this and you're on the road every week. Yes. It's got to be tough. So I've become familiar with this idea that balance in the sense that you're like describing, I think, it doesn't really exist in every area of your life. If you want to reach the kind of levels that we're talking about reaching, right? If you want to be the best at what you do, I'm sorry, you're just not going to have that kind of balance. there's going to be sacrifice made somewhere.

Unfortunately, that's just the way it is. And I have paid that price many times, and I still am. So like I say, when I struggle with guilt and things like that about the lack of time that I'm able to spend with them, that's part of not being able to have that balance. Because if I want to achieve the things that I'm saying, I want to achieve, then some other things have to wait. Unfortunately, now that's a battle that we all have to fight within ourselves to say, what's most important right now, what can be put off a little bit to the future. And there is no right or wrong. That's just for you to sort out with yourself and something we all struggle with.

Well, one of those goals, and you had made this a public goal, you wanted to be a singles champion. As we sit here right now, you're the intercontinental champion. Yeah. What did that mean winning that at SummerSlam and in your hometown? Man, to your point earlier about the circumstances and all these things lining up to lead to one thing. Imagine none of this would have ever happened the way it did without the injury and all these things. That's why I say I don't ever believe in coincidence anymore because, oh, it just happened to be that SummerSlam was in Minnesota this year

that I just happened to have this trajectory that led me to my singles. There's no way. It was meant to be, I'm confident of that. But I'm also super grateful to a degree that I can hardly describe. Like, it's the little kid in me got to experience everything he ever wanted that day. A victory like that with your family ringside is, it's almost indescribable what that can do for you. The six-year-old or seven-year-old version of you that used to dream about this stuff at night, your goosebumps and tears in the ring and importantly you got to show your kids firsthand of close and

personal that like you really can like chase down and accomplish these things that you want dreams come true it happens yeah and it's a cliche but it's like no not really because like I got to show them personally and that's going to live with me forever the importance of that it was a beautiful moment when your family comes into the ring and you got to sell celebrate that with them. Yeah. Did you watch how my dad got in the ring that night? What do you mean? Oh, man, it should be its own comedy hour. My favorite thing in the world, dude. I don't know if they even got proper footage of it, but I was in tears laughing at that point. My dad is so great. My mom and dad is like the most supportive people. I love their t-shirts. On the planet,

dude, they're the greatest. They raised me great. They gave me every opportunity, full support, invite him in the ring. Oh, man. I mean, getting in and out of a wrestling ring, if you've never done it before, it can be a challenge. Sure, yeah. My dad showed just what a challenge that could be that night.

So I'll just leave it at that. It's pretty great. But what a fun moment, though. Like, you had been talking about this for a while. In fact, I remember interviewing you at the Raw on Netflix debut. So we're talking January 6th of 2025. Yeah. And you put it out there.

You're like, I want to be a champion this year. Yeah. And obviously things got, you know, you had to hit pause on things because of the injury, but you made it happen. Yep. One of my strengths and my toxic traits, I will say, is that when I say something out loud or put it in the public sphere or whatever, like I refuse to stop until I find some way to do it. And it's not always, what I mean by it's not always the best way is sometimes I just grind myself into the ground. to get it done and make sacrifices where I probably shouldn't to get it done. But I will find a way. And so when I say these things out loud

and I've said that to you, and I said that before that we're gonna get this done, I swore of God on TV, to me that's no small thing. That's a very serious thing, that I was gonna win a singles championship. So from hell or how about, we were gonna figure it out. Is one of those goals,

you're looking ahead to now is do you want to be a world champion? Always a world champion is, I think, a standard goal. It should be for all of us, right? If you're in this business and that's not your goal, then I think you're probably in the wrong business or your mind's not in the right place. But my goals now have shifted a bit in general to just learn to embrace who I'm becoming

while this stuff is going on. because what I've found is that when I'm more concerned with the journey in this process and what it takes to kind of reach those goals, the goals take care of themselves is what I've found. As long as you're more concerned with doing the work now today and kind of like investing in your personal bank account, you know, in your work ethic, whatever you want to call it, to get there. Before you know it, you just end up there. But that comes through the process. So now I'm more like process driven, ambition driven. Like, let me just enjoy this journey.

Because like when you look back, I do feel like at least it's been my personal experience that of all the things, whether it's the Olympics or like state championships, things like this, rarely do you remember like the actual achievement itself for the moment? I'm becoming far more familiar with my memories of the things that happened on the way to get there. And the relationships, the memories, and that kind of stuff. And I think it's probably just part of getting older and realizing what's important and the stuff that really mattered. Yeah. Because like the, I mean, a gold medal, these things, like, they fade away.

But like these relationships and the lessons you learn and kind of the wisdom you acquire on the way, that stuff doesn't fade. And that's the stuff of legacy, right? That's the stuff I need to pass on to my kids and things like that. So that's what's becoming more important to me. It's wonderful that we remember moments, right? And sometimes there's small things. It could be something that happens in the gym or when you're training, but it's those moments along the way.

You add them all up. I think that's what we call a life. There's going to be a moment that will be told someday that I don't want to ruin now about the whole mask versus mask story and kind of the genesis and some of the origins of it that I think will be pretty cool that will come out. So maybe when the time is right, I'll contact you and we can tell that story. There's more to it? There's going to be a little bit more to be revealed.

Wow. That's the match right now that everybody points to for you. That's your best match ever in the view of the fans. What was the match before 2026 that you hung your hat on? What was your favorite match up to that point? Ooh, that's so hard. I think the thing that probably changed my trajectory in the biggest way was the stuff I did with Gunther as a singles guy. I had still up until that point really, really probably still been associated with tag team stuff.

And I was so hungry to break through as a singles guy. And I owe Gunther a big debt of gratitude for that. He put on some great matches with me. He was one of these guys that I consider like a dance partner that was just meant to be, right? There's certain guys that you get in there with and it's like, yeah, we were we were supposed to do this from a long time ago. And I've had a few guys like that. He's one of them. And so I think that whole story with him was kind of a breakthrough for me as a singles guy.

had opened a lot of people's eyes to say, oh, yeah, he can do more than just be a tag team champion. Took a long time after that to get to this point, but I think that was the beginning. Everybody wanted you to beat him for the intercontinental championship. Yeah, me too. Was there ever talk of it happening? Not to me, no. I mean, it's another one of those things you think about, like, nothing now would have meant what it did. If I had won it then.

Like, who's to say what would have been better? Nobody knows, you know? And I'm creatively, like, and professionally as fulfilled now as I've ever been. So maybe that was just fuel to the fire. Maybe that was just part of this whole arc, you know, that was really meant to be. Jim Rome takes on sports. Everybody pointed out the obvious Harbaugh connection and everybody, as it turns out, was right because nine is officially now a New York giant.

You know, you talk about selling low. Even the nine has got a fourth for Trey Lance. He's out of the building. We will take that fifth pick, and we will surely turn it into something more valuable than nine ever was to this organization. The Jim Rome Show podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

You talk about the chemistry you had with Gunther. The chemistry you have with Penta is unbelievable. Yeah. It's like you guys have known each other your whole lives or something. another one of those dance partners that I just got lucky with. Penta, man, I can talk all day about his wrestling, but like, he's just the greatest human being, man. What an incredible human being. From the moment I met him, we clicked, we hit it off great.

But I don't want to say that that's unique to me because Penta hits it off great with everybody. He's just that kind of person. He's so affable and just a joy to be around. He's always got a smile on his face. He's so funny. And just, like, most effortlessly, like, cool guy you've ever met, you know? Like, just cool. And fortunately enough, we are great dance partners as well.

So you had his first match in WWA. Yeah. There was something. I even texted you about this. There's something about the way you sold his Mexican destroyer. Yeah. You made it look dangerous. Yeah.

I mean, I think it is dangerous. Crazy move. Yeah, it's a crazy move. The great thing about it is just like, I think we set a precedent that night for like the seriousness of that move. And like that that was going to be his thing going forward, which for a debut of a guy, nothing more important than like painting some very specific pictures for them on their first night. And he did just this incredible job of coming in and showing the world who he was that night. He got a promo afterwards, which a lot of guys would, like, maybe be overwhelmed with, drop the ball with. Sometimes he delivered, man.

Like, anybody that watched him perform that night goes, leaves going like, that's my guy. I'm a fan of that guy. And then it comes full circle because he's the guy you win the intercontinental championship from. Yeah. crazy again crazy circumstances, everything, but I think what I want to say about that is how gracious he was after the match.

We don't see it a ton these days where a guy is willing to put the title on you after the match, after you just beat him. We didn't talk about that. There was no plans, no intentions, nothing. He just did it. And to me, I almost broke down as more than anything else emotional-wise in that match because of that.

I was like, man, this guy doesn't need to do this. And like, a lot of guys would think that it's enough grace to just leave the ring and give you the ring. He did that after. But first, he made it a point to show that, like, it's you now. You deserve this. You earned this. I don't even wanted to just grab that dude and just hug him. Like, man, you didn't have to do this.

But it just speaks to his character, like, just a special human being that, They don't make him any like that nowadays. Did you guys talk in the back when you came back after you won the match? Yep. We talked in the locker room a little bit, made sure to thank him. He had his daughters there that day too, which was cool. So our families got to meet each other. And then we have just some words we like to say to each other each day.

It's something I won't say on here. But yeah, totally gracious, man. raw in Mexico City, this match with Dragon Lee was unbelievable. And you could tell after the match how much it meant to both of you. What was the moment you were sharing with Dragon Lee after that match? I was over the moon happy for him because he's been on this little run for about a year and a half, two years now, where he's been the guy that you put him out there and you just know you're going to get something special. Yes.

Now he doesn't always get to do it. do that in 12 or 15 minute matches. Sometimes it's four or five, but he always leaves an impact. And I'm like, man, I had done some matches with him when I first started as the Grande Americano and before that as Chad Gable. I knew how special that dude was. And he not only was special in the ring and talented, but his passion and just fire or wanting to be successful in this business is like the kind that like I want from everybody. I want to see that from everybody. And he brings it to work every single day. And so I was like begging for this match with real stakes on it like with him, like me and him just one on one throwing down just with a chance to go

out and just rip, man. Like the guys I used to watch on Nitro or or something in the 90s when it's like you turn on in the middle of the show and these guys are just just ripping for like 12, 15 minutes with Eddie and Dean and all these guys, you know. And I'm like, we finally get that chance. It's like we're going to deliver. And also, I want to leave this match with people looking at him going, holy crap. Like that was like a big coming out party for him. That match leveled him up.

Yeah. I hope so. People see him in a different light now because of that match. I hope so. He deserves it. For sure. He followed up with this awesome match with Cass, right? And like, it's almost as if you, he's one of those guys, and it's a bit of a cliche as well,

but he is, no matter who you put him in there with, he's coming up with something unique to that performer that he's in there with. It's never the same match with him. And that's what you want to see. I want to turn it on and go, every time I watch this guy, I get something special. And that's what you get with him. Well, that's also what people say about you. Well, I don't think there's a bad Chad Gable match.

That's very nice. I saw that Seth Rollins recently posted that it's been amazing watching you become one of the best wrestlers in the world. Yeah. How did you feel when you saw that? So the level of humility that I get from a comment like that from one of my peers is like it's next level. It humbles me to a degree that I don't know that you could have ever told me that I'd be having these things said about me by peers that. I respect at that level and I would have believed you. I don't think so.

But it's happening and it's super cool because people like Seth, they don't blow smoke. They don't just say stuff like that. And so when he said that, he actually said it to me in Mexico personally before that. And I had to stop myself from tearing up a little bit and I also got goosebumps. And I didn't know what to say to him. I just said, hey, man, I'm like, I don't know what to say, but thank you. because it's rewarding, but it's also gratifying in a sense to know that, like, I've done the right thing throughout my whole career.

I never gave up. I never phoned it in. I never walked away. I never said, and there was times, trust me, where I wanted to. I had like conversation with my dad and stuff about, and specifically during the Shorty G era and stuff where, like, leaving wrestling? I don't know. Just about, am I doing the right thing?

I don't know. Am I approaching this the right way? not about leaving wrestling, but questioning myself, wondering if I'm approaching the career in the right way. And I don't like questioning myself. I want to be sure that at least the approach is right. And I had doubts. But like when I hear stuff like that from Seth, it lets me know like you did you did things the right way. Yeah, especially like he's a guy that people point out and go, you're the best wrestling in the world. So if a guy on that level saying that you're that good, Right. And what a compliment.

Yeah. When it comes from my peers, it always hits a little different. Like I said, guys that I value their opinion of. And I'm not a guy that I also don't go seek out opinions a lot. If they come to me, I will for sure accept them. And there are very few people I will go to for opinions. Punk. Seth would be one of them. So when they give me their feedback, I do not take it lightly. You've been getting these comparisons to Kurt Engel for almost your entire WWE career. I feel like it doesn't get talked about enough that you wrestled Kurt Engel. So the dream match everyone talks about happened. Yeah. 2019. Yeah. You have this wonderful moment before the match where you shake his hand and you say, you know, this is an honor.

Yes. What did it mean wrestling Kurt? It was another thing that stems back to my childhood because obviously I used to watch Kurt, but I met him at Mall of America here up the road. I don't know how old I was, but I had his VHS tape for him to sign. And I still have it. I think my parents have it at their house. I have that too. And he signed it for me. But that day when I met him at Mall of America, I said, I'm going to wrestle you someday in the WWE.

For those that don't know, because I had wanted to be a pro wrestler was a dream of mine far before the Olympics or anything ever was. Like, I always wanted to be a pro wrestler. But you were a backyard wrestler. I was a backyard. Oh, yeah, baby. Oh, yeah. And I told him I was going to wrestle him someday. And he was awesome.

He was great. He signed my thing and talked to me. But then, yeah, I mean, I don't know how many years later, but we made it happen. It was pretty special. Did you feel something in that ring? Like, man, I'm in here with someone who's at another level? For sure.

And the cool thing I do remember about that is, in a very rare occurrence on a Monday Night Raw Live, we actually ended up, like, getting more time than we were supposed to, like, in the moment. So we just got to wrestle. And to be able to just go in there and just be wrestling, like, on the fly and winging it with Kurt Engel, of all people, it was like, this is happening. And it was in Chicago, which is great. The crowd's always great, you know, and it was a great night, man, except I got a speeding

ticket on the way home. How fast where you're going? I don't know. You've leaned into the Kurt Engel stuff, though. like you're doing the ankle lock, you're doing the angle slam, you've got a real intensity in the ring. Yeah. That obviously feels like something you're doing intentionally. Yeah. I never wanted to be the one that would fight the comparisons. First of all, because they're of the highest compliment to me being compared to Kurt.

But second of all, some of that is in my nature as well, the intensity, the actual in-ring style. I think we share a lot of similarities. from the jump, whether not just for me emulating him, but just because we come from the similar background. So it would almost be disingenuous for me to like try to force a different style just to be different than Kurt. It never made much sense to me. It's like, do what I do. And if the comparisons are there, there's a lot worse people you can be compared to than Kurt Engel. I think there's this false narrative that you were a guy who went to the Olympics for wrestling and then you found wrestling, pro wrestling afterwards. Yeah.

That couldn't be further from the truth. You made your pro wrestling debut in 2003, which doesn't get talked about at all. You had an entire indie run before going to the Olympics. Yes. I feel like someone needs to update your Wikipedia. Someone's dropping the ball on that one, yeah. Under professional wrestling on your Wikipedia,

and we'll get this fixed after the scene. Sure, yeah. It just starts at 2013 NXT. So if anybody remembers WWE tough enough, the show, there was a local wrestling promotion that did their own version of Tough Enough in 2003. And I signed up, I think it was like $50. I had no money because I didn't have a job then. I was 16 or 17, paid all in quarters. And I didn't even have a license. My mom had to drive me there. Did the competition with, I don't know, like 10 or 12 of these other people. And then I ended up

winning this competition, which meant I got to get trained for free by this school. Did my training. And then, yeah, I had my first match in Wisconsin in, I believe it was September of 2003. So at this point, 23 years ago. So becoming a pro wrestler was always the initial dream. That was number one, man. We had an insanely awesome wrestling ring built in my backyard by my dad. I mean, from a distance, it looked like a professional ring.

And it felt great. It was awesome. 18 by 18? No, it was not that big. It was probably 14. We were smaller then. Sure. We'd get away with it.

But, I mean, when I say we took it serious, I mean, like, dude, nothing else in the world mattered to us more than backyard wrestling. What was your backyard wrestling name? Chase Hasty. Chase Hasty. Don't mess for that, man. I, in my mind, was just the greatest in the world. I was not.

Trust me. But it was cool because, like, there was a whole community back then. That's when message boards were, like, super popular. Yes. Like, there was the place called the backyard wrestling link, like, where we would get in arguments with everybody. And, you know, it was an obsession. It was all I thought about night and day for years.

Like, that's what we did, put on shows. And it kind of like, I was in my tape trading phase then. So I was watching everyone from Japan. I was watching Mexico stuff. watching European stuff. And it was just this whole infiltration of pro wrestling into my life that just never left me. It's all, it's what I wanted. So who were the guys you loved and looked up to growing up? At that time, when I started like really diving in deeper, like Jush and Liger became my guy. He like, Kabashi, Kawa. I was so into the Japan stuff. And then guys in America

were some of the cruiser weights I'd mentioned before, like the real technical level guys like Eddie and, you know, Ray, some of those guys that were just setting a standard on TV that you didn't see very often. And everything they did stood out. The guys that caught my eye like that, technical guys. So you were doing the independent wrestling thing for a few years. How do you decide, I'm going to put this on hold? I'm going to chase the dream of being an Olympic wrestler. So I don't mean to downplay how important amateur wrestling was to me either, because it was, I mean, that was what I did. It was every weekend, every week, multiple practices. You were doing both.

I was doing, yeah. So once, that was my senior year of high school when I had my first pro wrestling match, I set it aside during like the high school season because I wasn't going to do both at the same time, obviously. And then the opportunity presented itself to start training for the Olympics right out of high school. There was a school, Northern Michigan University at the time was the only place you could receive a scholarship to train for the Olympics. It was very unique at the time. And Greco-Roman was my style. And that's what they taught up there. And we were like, it was too

serendipitous, too awesome of a chance for me to pass up. Like, I had to do it. So I moved up there for those that don't know, that's in Marquette, Michigan. It's basically like if you watched Rocky Train and Siberia for Rock. Yeah, that's where you're at. There's not much to do other than train. It's winter like 10 months out of the year. But it was great. It's great for training because yeah, basically you're stuck in the room. And I had a crazy coach named Devon Ivanov, who, if you've ever seen any of the suplice Bulgarian bags that everyone's spinning around these days for fitness, he invented those. And he's just one of the greatest human beings. I inherited so much of my mentality and psychology from him in life and general, very tough man.

But yeah, like, the Olympics and training for that was just it's a full-time job in and of itself. So there was no way you were going to balance those two physically. So I chased that dream hard, hard for eight years, and we made it happen. So then after things with the Olympics, how does WWE find out about you? So there were a couple scouts at the Olympics at that time. they were seeking athletes with amateur backgrounds from my understanding. I think Jerry Briscoe was there, and they had come to one of our practices, and I introduced myself, but there was no real formal invite or anything from then.

It was after I retired, just through some people in amateur wrestling, I knew some people who I had asked to reach out to WW for me to see if I could get a tryout. and they landed me one in May of that year. So it would have been May of 2013. I was part of the last tryout at FCW in Tampa before they closed it down and opened the Performance Center. And look at you now. You're living the dream.

Look at me now. Holy crap. If you could go back and tell that 15-year-old version of yourself that you're doing this, what do you think his reaction would be? The 15-year-old would have been satisfied knowing that he had a trial. with WWE, he would have been like, no way. You know, like that, that would have been the end-all be-all. That version wouldn't believe any of this now.

You know, it's just, it's one of those things that it's so far-fetched, but that happens a lot. I mean, part of what I meant about passing this stuff on to my kids is like, it seems far-fetched, but it doesn't need to be. Like, if you're willing to do what it takes, there's always a path. There's always a path, but it, It requires a lot of diligence and a lot of, you know, a lot of those valleys we talked about. And just realizing that the valleys are never, they're never quite as low as you think they are.

And neither are the peaks, though, my friend, the peaks are never as high. So enjoy that middle ground. Enjoy that middle ground. If this two shall pass, right? Yeah. When things are going great. Yeah. This two shall pass.

When things aren't going so well, this two shall pass. If things are just going okay. sometimes it's like, that's great. You know, enjoy that too. Yeah. Yeah. I love seeing your son wearing the matching gear. Yeah.

When did that begin? I think the first time was for a WrestleMania. I just asked my single guy make him one. And he geeked so hard. And I was like, well, we have to make this a thing. And it's turned into like a real life thing now. Like we went to a concert like a couple months ago. And we were both rocking Canadian tuxedoes.

both have full denim. I mean, I inherited that for my dad. My dad made those the coolest thing in the world full denim. But it's just a cool thing I share with him. And I think he'll look back at fondly and remember, hopefully I will too. One of the coolest parts about that aftermath of that mask match that I said I watched was, I think it must have been the same exact moment I took my mask off. He took, he was wearing an Elgrani Americana mask and he took his off too. But he looked so dejected and sad. And I was like, oh, it's like you, you feel worse about this than I do, dude. You didn't lose anything. But it kind of really added to the moment. It was kind of cool. He's sad that you lost the match and you're like, man, I'm happy to be Chad Gable again.

I guess. I don't know. This is a new Chad Gable we're getting now with a whole new entrance. Yeah. Whole new entrance theme. What's the idea behind this like hard rock entrance theme? Dude, you just got to do what you feel. You got to do what you love. I mean, it's the same thing I tell anybody about. So the way I even decorate my gym, the way I decorate my interior or my house, I don't put a bunch of motivational quotes and crap in here that doesn't do anything for me these days. The stuff that does stuff for me is what resonates with me personally.

So that's the kind of stuff I curate. And that's with my entrance, with my music, all this stuff. I feel it. I feel this stuff. And that's important because if I feel it, then people are going to feel it. If I don't, people sniff that out immediately, right? If you're forcing something or faking something, people are going to go, that ain't him. But trust me, I feel that. I feel that music, baby. I just, I want to change my tron a little bit. That's the only thing we need to change. I mean, I got like this vision of like this 80s vibe. Maybe part of its training, maybe part of it's, I'm riding in a corvette with the top down, with the, in the Miami Vice type.

I don't know what it is, but there's the whole package is coming together very soon. From the first note that is sung in that song, I'm like, how'd they get Chad Kroger from Nickelback to sing this? It's a little bit of that. It's maybe a little ACDC. Yeah, a little anthem rock, right? Yes, definitely. Yeah, man. It's what we're doing.

It's badass. It's bad ass. Gabe, Bo! Yeah. Yeah, you're going to be pumped now. Getting pumped up. That's what we're listening to when we work out. The whole time?

Yeah, just on repeat, baby. Your theme song on repeat for an hour. I love it. Sign me up. Jim Rome takes on sports. Everybody pointed out the obvious Harbaugh connection and everybody, as it turns out, was right because 9 is officially now a New York giant.

You know, you talk about selling low. Even the 9 has got a fourth for Trey Lance. He's out of the building. We will take that fifth pick, and we will surely turn it into something more valuable than nine ever was to this organization. The Jim Rome Show podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Your workouts have changed a lot over the last few years.

I know you've been working really closely with J. Faruja. What's changed with your workouts? You're always in good shape, but now you're in unbelievable shape. Less volume. So that's the most important thing, doing less. Is that crazy? Hardest part for me, but the most important. thing. And yes, it sounds completely counterintuitive to most people. A lot of times eating more,

not always. Like there's certain phases we go through, but overall is a general picture eating much more than I used to, which also sounds counterintuitive to people. And then I've just incorporated a lot more machine movements, which the old me would have said, well, that's just a cop out. That's just way easier. Well, you got to use free weights. It's actually just healthier for my joints at this point. And I'm not so beat up all the time. And then a big part of it is just the discipline to stick with what I'm supposed to be doing and not what I want to do. And I'm a big proponent of wisdom now, which there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. Now, knowledge means I can have all the information in the world and Jay can tell me whatever he wants. And I can go, yeah, yeah, yeah,

but I know better because I have done this and this. I think I know better. So I'm going to do a couple extra sets here, a couple extra sets there. Wisdom is saying, well, actually, you don't know better because that's not your wheelhouse. You didn't spend 30 years of your life doing this stuff. You spent 30 years of your life like training for wrestling. So take the advice from the people that you're asking for it from and apply it. And if you apply it, then that's wisdom. And when I do that, lo and behold, like it all works out great.

When I don't, I always, and trust me, I'm not great at it yet. still fall back to my old ways, then I suffer the consequences. What made you even seek out a coach for this? Accountability. I learned that I needed that. When I talked earlier about coaches and I've had coaches my whole life, I realize that when I'm left to my own devices now, I only know how to do things to 120%. That's the only way. And it just doesn't work, especially with the body. I mean, it's physiology. You can't outwork physiology. It's just like our bodies work a certain way. That's just how they're built. So there's a certain way to do things. And I need accountability to keep me at that level. I need someone to answer to. And without that, I just go nuts. And then I just end up feeling

like crap. Well, like you've had some major changes. Like if you look at a picture of you now versus a picture of you, say, three years ago. Sure. Like you've dialed it in for sure. It's a lot of that's nutrition and the consistency with the nutrition instead of being like oh we'll do a couple months of trying to get super lean and stay lean and then we'll forget about that for a while it's like well you can be more consistent over the long haul and that makes actually maintaining everything a lot easier than it does when you're doing these peaks and valleys you know i it's i wish people would recognize how important the nutrition aspect is as opposed to like everyone's so focused on the working out and the fitness. Some people hate it. So they do this working out and stuff

out of like anger and frustration and they're just like, stand this crap. Well, you don't have to do it. Like for my wife, for example, I'm helping her right now and she's down like 30 pounds almost. Dude, she hasn't worked out once. Not once. She don't like working out. She has this beautiful gym here. Come on. pathetic, I think. I mean, look what you got. But, like, that just goes to show that, like, what's possible if you want it to be. It's just discipline. It's, discipline isn't even the word. It's consistency. It's, like, just being willing to be consistent over the long haul. Jay Faruja is, like, a scientist when it comes to this stuff. Like, he knows it so well. And he's a

great guy, too. If only someone could teach him how to shoot video on an iPhone when we're working out, it's like the worst cinematography in the world. from what I understand tell him I said that well he's going to hear this so there you go Jay from what I understand CM Punk saw the results

that you were getting and he started working with Jay is that right you'd have to ask punk I hope so he's working with him now yes certainly he is and the cool thing about

the relationship with him punk me now we're like geek texting about equipment and stuff on a regular basis which I didn't think that punk

would be someone I'd ever be texting about that stuff with, but he gets it now. And he's like, with someone like punk, it's cool because when they go to make that shift from not really being that deep into it to all the sudden they're all in, the level of the light bulb just goes off and they're just obsessed with it. And to a level that now I am too. So we share that.

And it's like, when we get talking about this stuff, we just, oh, man, people would be like, what are you talking about? Like, who cares about the degree and the angle and the, path and the range of motion and the strength curve. And, oh, dude, it's so awesome. It's so cool to talk about it and I geek out about it. And people don't understand Sam Punk's making his own meals.

Yeah. Like he has a rice cooker and he's putting all these meals together and I'm sure you were too. At the shows, we're like talking about, here, what's your carbs today, man? Here, where your carbs at or like, what's your treat tonight? You have rice cake with what? A little bit of peanut butter on it or honey or what? It was like, oh, that sounds divine. Geek stuff, man.

But it's awesome. Like, when you're into this stuff, you get it. Like it's, because it's rewarding. It's rewarding when you're willing to show that discipline and the consistency and you're doing it with other people that are obsessed on that level. It just, it's the kind of reward that it keeps building on itself. The momentum builds like crazy and you just want to do more and more of it. I feel like Jay's working with a lot of guys, a lot of people on the WWE roster. Are you the first?

So I don't know, maybe I was his first, like, official client that he helped. I know he knew people before me in WWE. But we hit it off really well because I was always into the fitness podcast and all that stuff and I listened to his stuff. But I think from the moment he saw how we met backstage one time years and years ago for the first time. When he saw how attentive I was, I think, to everything he was saying. I think he thought it was come. that goes back to me just being obsessed with coaches, I think he thought, oh, this guy gets it.

He gets what a coach does. Whereas I think he, I mean, he's told me stories before where he'll give advice to people or talking and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he's telling me how to grip the floor with my toe and my heel for RDLs and I'm like, oh, and I'm doing it all. And then he's like, I tell that to someone else and they're like, what are you talking about?

Like, I'm just bend over and pick it up. It's like some people care. Some people don't. So I think that's why our relationship kind of flourished. the way it did because we both just have that deep level of obsession that you can't really teach. Well, to your point, I think a lot of people look at working out as taking their medicine. Yeah. I got to do this today.

Instead of I get to do this today or, man, I can't wait to do that thing today. It's legitimately like my favorite part of every day. I just get completely lost in here. I can say without a doubt, I've never been in a bad mood in this room. Like, I may be in a bad mood on my way to this room in here. Yep. It's almost impossible. And that's like a physiological thing that happens, right?

Like you, like you said, you might not want to go to the gym. You might not want to get in a workout. But you never leave the gym going, well, I shouldn't have done that. No, no. No, you're always happy with yourself, satisfied. You accomplish something. I mean, chemically, it changes things, right, in your body. So, like, that's part of it.

But it's just like, I just love it. It's the best, man. You're getting pumped up right now. You can't wait. That C4's kicking in. I can see the, oh, baby, it's getting vascular. I need C4 to sponsor me. I drink so much of it.

You had the dream match that I think that fans talk about. I wish Chad Gable and Kurt Engel could wrestle while they did. Who's the dream match you wish you could have with someone who's maybe not wrestling anymore or someone who's not with us? Man. It'd probably be a few. If I had to pick one, I'd go with Brett Hart. Me and Brett at WrestleMania.

How about that? With stakes, with a title on the line. A real artist, I think, in every sense of the word, someone that treated pro wrestling like art. Every match he had was like a painting he intended on hanging up for the world to see. So there was intention there. there was attention to every detail uh yeah what a great description to art yeah i would love to see you versus eddie garero that'd be another one he was on my list liger kabashi um sean michaughs

sean michael's be great and there's a lot there's a lot yeah yeah i think you versus like oh six a j styles Fortunately, I did get to work with him a few times. Yeah. Like a lot of people I've ended up getting to work with that I feel very lucky, very fortunate there sticking around this long, you know. Had a match with Ray a few weeks ago that like, I feel like we got a chance to make up for our WrestleMania match that I just needed him to know like what that meant to me.

It was just as the kid in me again. Like this is Ray, this is the dude. This is the dude, man. I used to watch. Yeah. but doing it in the same manner and to the same degree that he did back then. How? How?

How? And he hasn't slowed down. I don't know. It's unbelievable. He's wrestling like WCW Ray Mysterio. It's bad when you're going out there against the guy that's been doing it that long and you're thinking, man, I can keep up with him. Because I know how good he still is.

What a testament to how good he is and the longevity he's had in his career. Yeah, incredible. Amazing. I love the perspective that you're able to have, and maybe it's because you're a father. I think having kids puts things in perspective. But I love that you're able to sit here right now, realize the moment that you're having, and go, yeah, man, I feel it. Yep. I thank you for saying that.

Again, I don't think it would be possible had it not all happened until this late in my career. I feel fortunate at that point. I feel fortunate to be in a business where you can kind of come into your own this late in your career. It doesn't really happen with a lot of, especially physically based businesses or sports. You know, guys peak early. Yeah, you're right. Most guys aren't hitting their peak at 40 years old. No.

So I got lucky that I was able to be in this business and around enough people to prep me so that when this moment came, I can fully embrace it, fully enjoy it. and feel like I know what I have, as opposed to like it escaping me. And here's the other thing. A lot of people don't know they're in their prime when they're in their prime. Sure, sure. You seem fully aware of that. I mean, if this is my prime, people say this is my prime, I don't know. I don't know what my prime is or was or I don't, some days I don't feel like I'm in

my prime. Trust me, when I roll out of bed in the morning. But I do feel like I'm giving some of my best work now, most mature work, I guess I would call it. I may not be doing some of the things physically that I was doing 10 years ago, but that doesn't really mean anything I've learned. The maturity in what we do is like doing things the right way and telling the right stories. You're still pulling out moonsaults. What a beautiful moon salts. Wow, thank you. Every time I do one of those, I say a little prayer before I come on. Please, please. Yeah. How is your mindset changed when it comes to pro wrestling?

How do you approach a match now in 2026 versus say 2016? You have to take into account what you're trying to accomplish with each match now, I think is what I do, is what's the story here? What are we trying to get done here as opposed to 2016 was, let's go out and just have the most incredible wrestling match, regardless of where we're at on the card, regardless of what story we're trying to tell. I got to make sure and have the best wrestling match. I've learned that that's... Sure. If that's what it calls for. Sometimes it does just call for just great match.

I mean, sometimes we are tasked with, hey, man, you got 12 minutes tonight. I go out and rip it up. And I'm like, I mean, that's my ideal situation, because I don't have to think too much. We just go out and wrestle. But being a professional means taking everything into account, I think. How long do you think it took you to start to hear the crowd?

Great wrestlers always talk about hearing the crowd, feeling the crowd. Yeah. When do you think that that started to click for you? Probably when I started doing the Alpha Academy stuff with Otis, because that was probably the most character-driven I'd ever been. And I was starting to get responses from certain elements of my character, the shush, and thank you. And then that was then going, oh, things are resonating with people

beyond just me doing a German suplex with a pretty bridge or a fancy moon salt. So then I was like, yeah, chaos theory. So good. It's like I now we're eliciting a response based on other things. So I'm like that started to make me aware of that. And it was interesting because during that time period specifically is when we were doing some stuff with Randy Orton too, which if you ever want to like have an experience of hearing the crowd and how they can play.

apart in a match, Randy would be the perfect person to go to because he always elicits that response from doing not necessarily the moves I'm talking about, but from his presence and the aura. And if you just want to watch somebody show you how to do that, you could watch him. Man, the Shush character feels like a thousand years ago as you sit here right now doing what you're doing. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. When we were first talking about when I started down in NXT or when I was chasing the Olympics and all this stuff, time and how it passes. And as I get older, it's becoming more apparent, how wild it is.

Dude, like my kid, my oldest daughter was born on our first NXT tour in 2015. When we were in the UK, I was like desperately hoping that we would be back in time because she was going to be born and I was on the verge of missing it. I made it back the day before, thankfully. But all that to say, like, that to me just seems like, I mean, I don't, dude, time is crazy. Like, the weeks and days sometimes feel like they take forever. And they're just like dragging on and on. But then the years are just like gone. They're just gone.

You know, it's insanity. And the older you get, the more that just becomes more and more apparent. And they keep telling me it doesn't, it doesn't ever stop. It just keeps going faster and faster. Well, the funny thing is, slow it down. If you looked at a photo of you or I from two years ago, we'd look relatively the same. Sure. Well, if your shirt was on, you'd look relatively the same.

But if you look at a picture of your kids or my kids from two years ago, it's like, what the heck? I know. Who is that person? It makes me so sad. It makes me so sad. Like, not dreadfully sad, but just like, man. That version of them is gone.

It just goes so fast. Yeah. And replaced with another amazing version of that. Incredible version that you're getting right now. So it also, the perspective helps. But it, um, sorry, my neighbor's mowing his lawn right now. All right. These mics might not pick it up.

But, um, I guess the tragedy is, and this is, I'm only speaking for me personally. I don't know that you go through this or whoever else, but you just, I always just look back and go, man, I hope during that time period in their life, I gave them what, what they needed during that time. And I didn't miss any. opportunity. And because each age comes with its own new kind of like revelations and responsibilities in their life that I feel like I owe to them, I don't want to miss that little four-year-old five-year-old gap where I could have taught them this. And now all of a sudden they're 10.

And man, am I missing something now? It's just always in the back of my mind. So I'm doing my best to just give whatever stupid wisdom I've learned in my life to them, you know, and like give it all of them as much as I can in the moment. Does turning 40 feel like something to you? Does that feel like a milestone that changed things? No. I don't even remember what I did on my

40th birthday. The birthday things I was told that like now in pro wrestling, like 40s like the new 30s. And a lot of guys are proven that. It is when you look at the roster. Yeah. Sure. So no, to me, it didn't mean anything other than continue to do things physically in the gym and nutritionally, maybe even smarter than you ever have because it's only going to pay off in dividends.

If I tried to train now, like I trained when I was 25 or 30, dude, we wouldn't even be doing this podcast. We'd be doing this podcast with me laid out on my back upstairs instead. So it just is a cue to me to just be, continue to be smart and diligent with everything I do, lifestyle included. I just live a very outside of wrestling, very boring, slow, outside of the 90 minutes in the gym, very boring life. And I really like it that way. Well, you, my friend, are applying that wisdom, and it is paying off in spades. So congratulations on everything, man. You are crushing it and you're continuing to do it week after week after week. Thank you, my friend.

I want to wrap this up with the question. I asked you this, when you're on the show, wow, that was over two years ago. Crazy. Gratitude is such a huge thing for me. It's a focal point of my life. You've mentioned it during this interview, so I know it's an important thing for you. Every single day I wake up, I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. I do it before I go to bed as well. What are three things right now as we sit here that you're grateful for? The Bible, perspective, and I'm going to put wisdom on there too since we've talked so much about it. And those three go hand in hand. It's been a big turning point in my life. And those three things I will hold close and cherish. And I do every day. Well, thank you for making this happen.

Let's get this workout. Let's do it, man. Are you ready? I got to turn the heat back on, though. Oh, baby. I'm getting a little chilly in here. So I will drop Chad's channel down below. Make sure to subscribe. If you're, if you've watched this long and you haven't subscribed to my channel, please just go and check and see if that button says subscribe or not. And again, thank you for making this happen. Thank you, brother. Let's do this. The games just ended.

The conversation starts now. The NFL digital reaction show. And without further ado, player of the day, play of the day, game of the day, team of the day, and the fan of the day in the NFL. No wait, no breaks, no time to waste. It's NFL Instant Graham with Josh Graham, live Sundays at 7th,000. p.m. Eastern on YouTube and listen anytime on your favorite platform.