Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Charles Robinson: WWE's GOAT Referee On Brutal Bumps, His Viral Ramp Run, Iconic Matches, John Cena, Cody Rhodes

Episode Date: September 25, 2025

Get tickets for Insight LIVE in San Diego on November 28! https://cvvtix.com Charles Robinson (@WWERobinson) is a professional wrestling referee with WWE. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Indianapolis, IN to discuss his legendary career in both WCW and WWE, refereeing some of the biggest matches of all time, being the first WWE referee to ref in 4 different decades, his viral run at WrestleMania, taking a spear from Goldberg, a shoulder block from John Cena, getting to work with Ric Flair as Lil' Naitch, being hospitalized after getting bitten by a bat, the worst bump he ever took, and more!Book a custom intro from WWE SmackDown announcer Mark Nash: https://cameo.com/markshunock Quote I'm thinking about: "A dream written down with a date becomes a GOAL. A goal broken down into steps becomes a PLAN. A plan backed by ACTION makes your dreams come true." — Greg ReidPlease support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux   SUPERPOWER: Go to https://Superpower.com and use code CVV to get $50 Off your annual Superpower subscription. Live up to your 100-Year potential. #superpowerpod   SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV2025 Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 20% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and reach your financial goals faster: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insightFAST GROWING TREES: Get 15% off with code INSIGHT at https://fastgrowingtrees.com   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All right, welcome back to another one here on Inside. It's me, the three numbers in the back of your credit card, CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for hitting play on this episode. And thank you, as always, for helping to make Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit a choke slam on that follow button so you don't miss out on any new interviews every Tuesday and Thursday. And ask CVV every single Friday. The next Insight Live is how. happening in November to kickoff Survivor Series weekend in San Diego.

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day. We have the great Charles Robinson with us. And if you're making a referee Mount Rushmore, there's no question that Charles is on it. He debuted in 1995. He's still going strong 30 years later. And he has been part of so many iconic matches, both in WCW and WWE. Matches like Rick Flair versus Sean Michaels with him. Sorry, I love you. Sean Michaels versus Undertaker at WrestleMania 26. just to name a few. And of course, he's been part of so many iconic moments. I think he's taken pretty much

every finisher imaginable. I mean, if you just think about this year, speared by Goldberg, that massive shoulder block from John Cena. And Charles was like, you know what? I actually wish he had hit me further. He wanted to fly into the crowd.

Wild. And yes, of course. Of course we talk about that long run down the ramp at WrestleMania 24 and all of the memes that have come as a result of that. But what a great conversation.

Like, how can you not love Charles Robinson? So I know you're going to love this conversation as well. Snap a screenshot. Share this with a friend as well. And tag us and let us know that you're listening. He's at WWE Robinson. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And here we go.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the legend himself, Charles Robinson. The great Charles Robinson. Where? Where? Oh, my goodness. I wanted to do this for so long. Yeah. So thank you for taking the time to do this. Well, that's good to be here. You know, it's been, what, two years, I guess you've been trying. I've been pestering you for two years. I'll be honest. I've been, there were probably times I could have done it, but I didn't think I was worthy of your wonderful podcast. Stop it. I'm serious. You are an absolute legend. Well, and you are the only referee. I'm sure you know this, who has refereed in four decades. Really? You refereed in the 90s? Yeah. The 2000s, 2010s and 2020s. All right. Yeah. Thanks for making me feel young. Well, the thing is, you haven't aged. Okay.

What's the secret? What's the secret, moisturizing? And getting bit by a bat. So, wild. You got bit by a bat recently. Yeah, just a few weeks ago. Does that officially make you the Batman? I am the Batman.

Badman. What happened? Sleeping, 2 a.m. in the morning. Here are noise in the bedroom. Cats. We have two cats. One's named George. The other is Michael.

George Michael. I love it. And so I got up, used my flashlight. Saw the two cats sitting there with their toys. I said, ah, cats, they're just playing, having a good time. Well, there was a big black blob right in the middle of the room. And we carry black latex gloves as a referee. So I said, hey, they got my glove.

Let me pick it up so they don't choke on it. Being the good cat dad that I am, bit down pick it up and that sucker bit me. Oh my gosh. How did a back get in your house? Came down the chimney. Yeah. So five hours in the hospital, seven shots later. And no reflection.

You're a vampire. I'm a vampire. I mean, you are a vampire. Right. How old are you, if you don't mind sharing? 61. Oh, my gosh. You look great.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Seriously, when you go back to like WCW time, you really haven't aged at all. I am, moisturized. And the hair? A lot. It's the hair. The hair helps.

The hair. Tremendously. Hairline's going back a little bit. I'll just pull it down here a little bit to... Oh, but it's beautiful. Well, thank you. So you get bitten by a bat while you're already out with a broken foot. Yes.

Yeah, I broke my foot in San Antonio. We were setting up the ring, Bonsai and myself. And I misstepped and fell off the ring and broke my foot. So of all the rough feet. bumps you've taken, you end up breaking your foot, just setting up the ring. You know, that's how tough I am. I'm so tough, I have to hurt myself. Sina couldn't do it. Brock couldn't do it.

Undertaker couldn't do it. I had to hurt myself. So for people that don't know, you're not just a referee. What's your other job behind the scenes? I'm part of the production crew, setting up the ring in the morning, and then at the end of the night, tearing it down. So have you done this for your whole career? WCW, I didn't have to do ring crew.

I came over to WWE in 2001, and they had an opening, and they said, hey, it's just part-time. You know, you don't have to do it forever. And once you start doing it, you don't want to stop. I've been in a lot of shows where the match ends at the end, and then I look over, and there you are with the gloves on, like, ready to tear down the ring. Like, you guys get right to work as soon as the show ends. Yeah. And one thing I would love people to understand, I have people, Charles, Charles, picture, picture. But I have a job to do so we get the ring out so the lights can get out. So the video can get out. We are the very, very first thing that has to go. And I mean, I feel bad. I just don't listen and do my job. But I wish people would understand. I've been cussed out so many times by people. It's just one picture. It's never just one picture. You know? You take one, then it's two, then it's three, and it's four.

And I love to meet the fans. I love to take photos. But when I have another job to do, that has to take priority. Look, nobody can hold this against you because you are the nicest human that I've ever met. And I try to be, you know. You are. Well, thank you. Yeah.

Is that just from your upbringing? Like, when I graduated high school, I went in the Navy. And I think that had a lot to do with it. Maybe a little bit with growing up. I had wonderful grandparents and such. But, you know, I think it's just common sense to treat people good. Wow. Right?

Common sense isn't always so common. I've always told people, I'm not book smart. I mean, I went back a few months ago and found my report cards from high school. Yeah, what kind of letters were in there? Oh, lots of Ds and a couple Fs. I mean, nothing above a C. I mean, I'm just not brain smart. But I do have a lot of common sense.

I think. Where was your first introduction of pro wrestling? Growing up, I was probably 10 years old. My grandmother loved wrestling. I think all of our grandmothers loved wrestling. That's what got us started. And I was in Charlotte area, and we had Jim Crockett promotions

in Midlandic Championship Wrestling. And she had the show on and Outwalks, the Nature Boy. So I was hooked. And that was it. Did you want to be a wrestler? I just enjoyed going as a fan. I mean, I was 10 years old in 1974. And I just love going to the Charlotte Coliseum or the Park Center and seeing shows.

So that was a big benefit with my grandmother because she would, my brother lived with my grandmother. And she would take us to the wrestling shows almost every week, which was fantastic. Did you ever think in your wildest dreams that you would be involved in this? No, never, never. I mean, I didn't have the body for it. I didn't have the athleticism for it. I didn't think, but, you know, things happened for a reason. I got very lucky in 1995.

I got my first divorce. And then I started to work, taking photographs for the PWF, which we were. was the Professional Wrestling Federation. It was George South in the Italian Stallion. And one time they wanted to do a storyline where I'm taking the photo, the flash blinds the hill, the hill gets rolled up, one, two, three. He gets mad, he comes out, he beats me up. Little blade job in the corner post.

And I cut a little promo, and I came back the next week as a special guest referee. the photographer. It's ridiculous. George Sout told me, he goes, calm down. You're cutting a better promo than most of my guys here. But, you know, I'd watch Rick Flair for decades. Yeah. And that's what I went off of.

What a story, though, for this to come full circle. You look up to Rick Flair when you're a 10-year-old. Right. Fast forward all these years later, you're working with him in WCW, not just roughing his matches. Yeah. you're involved in his storyline with it. I know.

Isn't that crazy? Wild. It is. Back in high school, we actually had a talent show when I was in the ninth grade. And my brother was Ricky Steamboat. I was the nature boy. We had a hair versus hair match. I had a bathrobe, the ugliest bathrobe my mom had.

And I lost the match, but I didn't lose the hair. I took the scissors and punched him in the head and talked about having heat for about six months. at school. That was a fantastic. It sounds like you did want to be a wrestler, maybe. Well, I did want to be Rick Flair. Sure. You know, who didn't at that time? That's exactly true.

So how does getting your introduction into the wrestling business turn into working for WCW? I worked the Indies with the PWF for a couple of years. And I just kept sending Terry Taylor tapes and call on him and calling him and calling him. And they showed up in Charlotte. It was September 17. 17th, 1997, and I went to the arena. He saw me.

He goes, do you have your gear? I said, I have it. He goes, we'll give you a tryout because I'm tired of you bothering me. He goes, you are the most persistent SOB I have ever met. And that's what you have to be. And I went in. I had a match with Kendall Windham and Chris Adams. And I came to the back and they offered me a job.

There's a big difference between being persistent and being annoying. Yeah. And maybe it sounds like you were like, okay, I was probably, right at that line. I was probably annoying.

Maybe right at that line. But amazing, though, that like someone giving you a chance has turned into this wonderful, incredible career that you have now. Yeah, I'll never be able to think

Terry Taylor enough. You know, he was my go-to guy. He believed in me, so. You're one of the rare referees that counts with your left hand. Right.

Was there ever a point early in your career when someone said, hey, you should count with your right? Never, never. I did do it one time. We were in El Paso, and I loved to run. And I was out running. Clearly. I was out running around the neighborhood, and there was a dog in a yard. It was a pit bull, and he came charging at me. And I tried to get away, and I tripped over the sidewalk, and I broke my finger on my left hand. So for the rest of the tour, I had to count with the right hand. So that's the only time I can't do it.

there's so much more to what you do, what any referee does than just counting one, two, three. What do you think is the most underappreciated part of your job? Safety of the wrestlers, you know, trying to know when they are hurt and when they're selling. And if they don't talk to you, you don't know. And that's the problem. The communication between the two of us is the most important thing. So have you been worked by wrestlers that you think they're just selling and, oh, my gosh, you're actually hurt or vice versa?

There's been plenty of times where they'll sell and not say anything. And I'll go to stop the match and say, no, no, no, I'm selling. But then you have the ones where they're really hurt and they don't say anything. And things can get a little aggressive with that. So I think one of the most underappreciated things is the communication that goes on in there. I think that people think that you're just like enforcing the rules when a lot of times you're telling them cues or you're telling them relaying messages from the back, right? Does that happen in pretty much every match? You know, somewhat, you know.

The big thing is just, like I said, safety is so important. I just lost my train of thought. I'm sorry. There's just a lot of communication, right? Yeah, there is. We're going to break or we're going to break or we're. Or out of break. We do that a lot.

You know, I mean, every match. Hopefully we don't have the instance where we have to do something other than that. Some of the, when I was coming up, a lot of the senior reps like Nick Patrick's and Mike Kyoto's, Scott Armstrong, they are great at if someone gets lost in a match to get them back on track and actually call spots for them, which is great. I've never ever been really great at doing that. So I'll say, hey, slow down, take a breath, grab a hold. And then you guys can get everything back together.

What does that look like in the ring? Because when we're watching it, you don't see that. Well, hopefully that's the way it looks. Yeah. I hate it when we're just standing there talking. And it looks like you're just having a conversation. Yeah, yeah. I try to use my arms, try to block or be animated.

Yeah. I'm not really known for being animated. What? Not at all. What do you mean? Not animated at all. You know, people, it's funny because people say, oh, the referees shouldn't be seen. That's not my philosophy.

And I don't do it on purpose. If I saw a fight out on the street, I would have react the same way. You know, it's just the way I reacted stuff. I've tried to stop. But I guess it's who I am. You're talking about your reaction to like punches, right? Punches or anything. Yeah.

Like blow for blow, you're, oh, oh. Yeah. Yeah. I don't act like it's hurting me. I'm just reacting to the situation. Like if you were at a real fight. Yes, right. My goodness.

Oh, wow. Now, try not to do everything because it builds and builds and builds. And then when it's something big, then you react to it. Do you think there's any referee who has taken more ref bumps than you? Oh, no. My Kyoto's taking a bunch. He's taken a bunch. He's taken a bunch.

But I don't know if anyone's taken. more than you. Yeah. I love taking bumps. If I could take a bump every week, I would. Yeah? Yes, absolutely. What's your, what's an easy bump for you?

Easy bump. I like punches. Now, you sell punches. I love punches. You sell punches great. I love clothes lines. I mean, Kevin Owens gave me one back a few months ago. Elimination Chamber.

Which was freaking fantastic. I mean, it just came out of nowhere. He turned you inside out. Yeah, yeah. That was awesome. Yeah. You run into the ring and he, He just flattens you.

Yeah. And my thing about bumps, people, you have some referees, they'll say, we shouldn't bump like the wrestlers. But to me, we should bump exactly like the wrestlers because they're bump like it's real life. So we should bump like it's real life, you know? So that's what I try to do. You have some classic WCW bumps off punches like macho man punches you. And I feel like you almost come out of your shoes on that punch. Yeah.

I mean, there's so many Hogan. He punched me a bunch. Yeah, he winds up. Wines up. Big wind up. Yeah. For some reason, Flair punched me. I don't know why.

I mean, we're the horseman, right? You know? Right. But any kind of bump I love to take. The worst bump to take is the squish in the corner for the most part. Just I don't like the way it's done. I just, you know, I don't think it's big enough. And sometimes they want us down too long for a little squish in the corner.

I think we did it once with Sting where I did a double bump, though, which was pretty cool, though. How do you know when it's time to get up? You know, like some rough bumps last for 10 seconds. Some ref bumps last for the rest of the day. Sometimes it's just feel, the crowd. Sometimes we're looking to see what's going on. Sometimes they'll tell us in the airpiece. or sometimes a wrestler grabs you,

grabs you, pulls you in. Yeah, that's happened a time or two, right? Some with ease. The way Brock Lesner picks you up. Yeah. He grabs you by the belt and picks you up like you're a suitcase.

I know, right? And, you know, I'm freaking 240 pounds jacked. For sure. I don't know how he did it. What was that? Elimination Chamber pay-per-view, I believe. Was that just like spur of the moment? Yeah.

Yeah. I didn't know he's going to pick me up like that. You guys didn't talk about it before? Not like that. He said he's going to put me back in the ring, not freaking one-handed, you know? He made it look like he was picking up his groceries. Yeah, right. Gone.

There's a history there with Brock. You've taken a lot of ref bumps because of Brock. Like there's one, I think he's picking Sina up, right, for the F-5, swings him around. And you- Catches me. Yeah, right. That was fantastic. Positioning, referee positioning is so, so important.

And we try to make it look like we're not getting into position. We want it to look natural, of course. So that was unusual to be at the front of them on the front of the ring. But I think it turned out pretty amazing, right? Oh, that was great. Yeah. There's another one where Brock just catches you and you take an elbow, like a legit elbow to the face. Yeah.

right into the ropes. Yeah, what happened there? I got in the way. And he doesn't like me, I guess. I don't know about that. Yeah. Then there's another one with Brock. You're beating up Paul Heyman and you're just laying it in, like big lefts.

That was fun. That was so much fun. I forgot what he did where I was beating on his head, but that was fun to beat up Paul. I think he pulled you out of the ring. Yeah. Right? think he pulled you out of the ring and you turned it on him. Yeah. And you're just laying it into Paul Heyman. Then Brock comes up behind me. He can't do it to my face. He's sneaky. Brock just like tosses

you off to the side. Like you weigh like three pounds. I know. Doesn't it be nice to, I mean, you're in good shape, but wouldn't it be nice to be that strong? I can't fathom it. Right? Like I seriously, I can't imagine it. Uh, Brock was always stronger than what you could believe, Scott Steiner, same way. Scott was scary, scary, strong. He had grabbed me sometimes and it's like, dude, this is a work. Stop. Just grab you right here. Yeah. What about Big Show? Big Show got you up for that one arm choke slam, lifted you up like it was just nothing at all. I know. And I'm like dead weighting too. No, I really did. But I mean, he just lifted me right up. Yeah. And then he brought me down nice and

easy. What's the worst ref bump you've ever taken? Randy Savage, elbow, but it wasn't a ref bump. I was a worker then, you know. But that was the worst bump I've taken, the elbow from Randy Savage. Why was it the worst? He put me in the hospital for 12 days.

It was Rick and I against Medusin Savage, and he came off the top with the elbow, and Rick Flair wasn't going to take the elbow from Savage. So they let Litton H. What was the injury? Just like there. I cracked my sternum, collapsed in my lung. So two hours later, I went to my room.

I said, oh, man, I just can't breathe. Went to my room two hours later. Still can't breathe. I called Jimmy Hart, Lifesaver. He called the EMTs. They came to my room, took me to the hospital. So, hey, we need to put you in the hospital. So that hospital, I won't say what city.

They released me the next day to fly home to Charlotte. which with a collapsed lung, you're not supposed to fly. You're not supposed to do that. Yeah. So I went straight to the hospital in 12 days. Oh my gosh. But Randy Savage called me every day.

So. Just to check on you? Just to check on. What a guy. Yeah. Wow. So I thought that was pretty cool. I've heard so many great things about macho man. Yeah.

Yeah. It was great to work with. Yeah. What was he like behind the scenes? He was always real nice to me, especially if we were in a, program together. Very good about what he wanted.

Very clear. Some people don't. You know, hey, it is whatever it is, but he knew exactly what he wanted to do. This episode is brought to you by fast-growing trees. Fall is planting season. And did you know that many plants and trees actually do better when they're planted this time of year?

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time. Terms and conditions may apply. Check out the link below or in the show notes. And please support the show. How much are you a part of the preparation for a match? So two wrestlers are putting a match together. Are they? With a producer. With a producer, right? Are they involving you in the entire conversation? I will listen, especially if there's a spot that affects me, and I'll let them know if it works or not.

And, no, when I first started, you just keep your mouth shut. But I think almost 30 years in the business, I can voice my opinion just a little bit. Well, who wouldn't want that expertise? You know, right? Seriously. And you say something that doesn't look right, a draw or something, you know, it makes sense. I say, oh, okay, you gave us a different way to even think about it because they don't think like referees. And they shouldn't.

Yeah. Nobody holds up the belt like Charles Robinson. That's the Charles Robinson flip. The Charles Robinson flip. That is trademarked and nobody can do it. Nobody else does it. They shouldn't do it. How did you come up with this?

I don't know because in WCW I didn't do it. I was looking back at some videos. I said, oh, man, I looks at that straight up and stuff. One day I was just playing with the title, you know, folded in so it's not so big and then just flip it up and then down it goes. Around what time was this? I don't know. Like early 2000s?

It had to be. Like when you were with WWE? Yes. I don't think I ever did that in WCW. Charles, it is so smooth. it's so smooth. It feels so good. I mean, it really does, but I'm always like, before I pick it up,

I'm always wiping my hands, make sure it's not sweaty because there's two things we can do. Drop the title or it be upside down, right? Yeah. So thank goodness I haven't done either yet. All right, so the champion hands you the championship. Where does it go from there? I fold the sides in. Yep.

and then I make sure it's pointed the right direction. Which is it pointing correct? Like when it's facing you. Don't make me think about this. You go screw me up, dude. Does I bring it up like this? And then I just flip it up, right? Yeah.

And then so the top is at the top. And then when I bring it down, I folded under so the top is still at the top. There was so much, so much nostalgia when you did that. Man, give me away my secrets. What are you doing? You're going to have a bunch of referees trying to do. this. Good luck,

maybe we'll cut that part out. Yeah, let's go out. And it. There was so much nostalgia when you did it with the, the winged eagle, like in that match with Cody and Kevin Owens, the Saturday Night's main event. Yeah. Like, even though that was not a championship when you were a referee in WWE, there was

just something at ballet. It's Saturday night's main event. You're wearing the classic referee jerseys. We're seeing the iconic title from the 90s. All of those components together, plus the Charles Rock's, Robinson flip. Yeah. It was just beautiful.

I tell you, it looks great with those shirts and everything, but God, they're the most uncomfortable shirts with the bow tie. They're not easy to refin? No. It's hot. I mean, WCW,

we had short sleeve, blue shirts. These long-sleeve ones are not comfortable. You guys have been you in your career, almost 30 years in the ring, you've gone through a lot of different referee attire. Yeah. Favorites the Blue Smackdown shirts.

right yeah so i have a couple in my collection yeah so like what you've worn the black and white stripes yep you've worn the blue smackdown you've worn the like vintage one like we were just talking about saturday's main event long sleeve short sleeve long sleeve short sleeve with bow ties what you guys are wearing now yes like a like gray right so what else am i missing here wcw right oh there's different patches and such sure they were all stripes now when we came over and did the invasion we had the gray baseball-looking jerseys with the red trim. We had those for a little bit. Yeah. Those were cool. I like those. So in WCW, how do you go from being a referee to all of a sudden the conversation is now, we're going to start to implement you in some matches. You're going to be

part of storylines here. I don't know, because you have Nick Patrick and Mickey Jay, all these senior guys. You have Pee Wee Anderson. I don't know why. You know, I'm very, very, very blessed because take Hogan and Goldberg. Why in the world did I get that match? I mean, Mickey Jay was Goldberg's referee. And, you know, they just threw me in there. I mean, it's obvious why they put me in the Rick Flair stuff. Sure.

Yeah. Biggest Rick Flair mark in the world, you know. And you kind of look like it. You know? The younger one, right? Right? And so with Flair, I mean, that was Kevin Nash, 100%. He was the Booker at the time.

to me, he goes, hey, how would you like it if, you know, you have a match with a girl, you're going to get beat, but we'll give you $10,000 and we'll give you a robe. I said, yeah, sounds good to me. You had me at $10,000. Exactly. Well, the robe is where he had me. I cared more about that. Oh, wow.

So that's where a little age began. That is where it all began. And that was pretty, pretty good part of my life, you know, of the career. And for it to peak, it's such an early time. Yeah. I mean, that was what, 98, right? Yeah, so you've only been in WCW for a year-ish at that point. And now you're-

98-99, yeah, one or two years. And you're part of one of the biggest storylines at that point? Yeah. That was the vice president of WCW. All those phone calls, they didn't tell me what to say. All those promos with the mic in the ring, nothing. Nothing? Nothing.

You're just figuring it out? I figured it out. What would Rick Flair do? You know, especially with the part with Piper, when Piper came out and I fired him. You remember that? Yeah. When I slapped him, bam. Yeah.

You don't mess with Charles Robinson. And the crazy thing is I can't imagine a ref being in that position now. Right. Like for a referee to be part of a storyline that big now, just. that wouldn't make sense. That's like Nick Patrick with the NWO referee. Right. He was their official referee.

Absolutely. Yeah. You know, so. It just feels like it's not there anymore. No. No. And in some regards, I think that's best.

Keep everything separated. You can have a little bit of an edge, but I don't think doing the Hill referee thing works. Although I think it went too far the other way for a while where like referees didn't have a name for a good chunk of time. Yeah. Like it was just the official. And I like.

that we're back now to referee Charles Robinson with the two count. It's like, makes sense. I mean, they didn't know our name so much one person in the office when I first got here needed a protein shake shaker. So I let them borrow my shaker when they're done. He said, get us back to that Rick Flair referee. Rick Flair referee. He's like, what?

I have a name. Since we're talking about WCW, we've got to go through some of these other bombs. Okay. The power bomb from Sid Vicious. Wow. Right. He folded me in half, right? And the expression on his face after he did it was like, I have killed Charles Robinson.

He's dead because I folded up like an accordion. But much younger, much more limber. And it didn't even hurt, actually. Not at all. No, no. So the ones that look the worst, sometimes there's nothing to it. Is that one of those situations where it's just the adrenaline is going? So maybe the next day.

You know, next day I don't remember. I had a concussion. I don't remember how I felt the next day. I mean, because back then we were working every day. Bam, bam, bam. You didn't have time to slow down. Kevin Nash gets you up for the jackknife and just like just drops you. He could have, he could have, like, slammed me down, but he took care of me.

You know, and that's important for the, if we're going to give them our body, for them to protect us. So, like, what's the, is that a conversation earlier in the day with someone like Kevin Nash where you go, all right, if we're going to do this, let's make sure that. No. I was so young in the business, do what you want. Seriously, you know, I just keep my mouth shut. I would say something now if it were something that I was concerned about. But there's really no bump that I can think of that I wouldn't mind taking now. This guy.

Yeah. This guy. What a legend. Yeah. You know, I just love taking bumps. You think you can just keep doing this for many more years to come? I hope so. I need at least, what, five, six more years? at least in the ring.

I would love 10. Why not? Well, why can't you have 10 more? I think I can. Let's do it. Why not more? Let's sign a petition. Could you ref into your 70s?

I think so. I don't take care of myself, right? Seriously. Yeah. Clearly. So, and that's the big thing. You know, our referees, I think we have the greatest group of referees out there, period,

Smackdown and Raw. Everybody takes care of themselves. Everybody's in very good physical condition. I'm probably the worst right now, because after I broke my foot, I couldn't run, I couldn't work out. I got depressed, ate a lot of ice cream, things like that, sitting in bed. So, you know, I have. You just got an ice cream maker at home.

Oh, that. We make some really good, healthy ice cream. Like one of the ninja creamies? Yeah. Like that. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. It's so good.

Like 30 minutes, you have creamy ice cream. Yeah. That's healthy, you know, with yogurt and low fat stuff. So that sounds dangerous. Yeah. We had to get that after I get. a little weight. But I'm getting it off. But for the most part, you've got a fitness routine. Yes. So you're staying in shape. You're ready to go. Absolutely. You know, and meal prep's the

biggest thing for me, you know, I learn is I do meal prep at the beginning of the week and that's what I eat. I was going to eat at the arena today during setup, but they had no catering today. So when you're out, you find something that's healthy. I had chick-fil-a-grilled nuggets. And I had, a salad, you know, so you just have to watch what you eat. So is there any bump you haven't taken when you're talking about all of these bumps? You've taken. I've taken so many super kicks from Sean Michaels. Tombstone.

Tombstone. Chokeslam by, it's funny when I did the run to the ring for WrestleMania. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, that was epic. I mean, there's so many memes that's fantastic, but. I run down then Undertaker goes to Joke slam me. And he's slippery and I didn't post right.

He got me up off the ground about six inches. Made him look so weak and I felt so bad for... Nobody remembers that. Yeah. Nobody remembers. Oh, I do. The only... It beats, I think about it all the time.

I say, man, I messed up the under... The only thing people remember is you running as fast as you can down that long ramp. Yep. perfectly. Going, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall. So what's going through your mind is you're waiting for your cue, but what's going through your mind when you're in guerrilla at that spot? Just not to fall.

That's the big thing. That was a steep, steep ramp. But you knew you were going to run as hard as you could? Oh, yes. Yeah. With Sina, when I did it recently, I didn't run as fast for a reason. What was the reason? He didn't want me to run past me.

He didn't want you to be too fast for him. Too fast, yeah. You know, so he goes, just take it easy coming down the ramp. Then I saw the camera guy, so I looked. I wasn't looking at the scene. I was looking at the camera guy. And then I kept going straight and then boom. Knocked me out of my shoes.

But at WrestleMania, you went full tilt. Full tilt. Yeah. And I was in really good shape. Didn't get blown up. People always, that's the first question. Hey, did you get blown up? It's only, what, 50, 75-yard,

sprint. So I was good. But it's the look on your face. It's the look on your face like, oh, I got to get there in time. And in slow motion. Right. That's fantastic. So then you get down to the ring.

Effortlessly slide in. Right. That's a big fear because sometimes you misjudge the height, even though it's always the same height. Yeah. Sometimes you misjudge and then you like just stopped dead. You know, if your legs are down and you don't slide in. The biggest slide was Jack Done.

Remember Jack Dohn? I remember, yeah. He did a slide. He was like a freaking warress or something. He slid all the way across the ring. It was the most amazing thing I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, he ended up almost on the other side of the ring. Yeah, yeah.

Unbelievable. Did you practice this run earlier in the day? No, no, I don't practice anything. I don't practice. That was it. Yeah. One take. One take.

Yeah. That's the best way to do it, you know? Just like with matches you were talking about earlier, I don't like to know too much in a match because then you find yourself anticipating what's going to happen. I like an authentic reaction to stuff. So that's why I don't like to know too much. What's been your favorite meme that you've seen?

I think after COVID, you know, all the memes about getting back to the gym or getting back to the hairdresser or, you know, the nail salon or whatever. how do I get paid for this stuff? You know, that's what I want to know. I mean, there are hundreds of different ones. As a parent, there's a lot of stuff on my feed now to do with kids. And one of them is when my six-year-old sees my toddler playing with a toy that he hasn't

touched in, you know, years. Yes. And that's totally a thing I see with my kids now. Like if my younger, my son is playing with something that my daughter hasn't played with him forever, she'll be like, wait a second. run all the way across the room. That's mine. And grab it.

So that meme speaks to me. Yeah, I mean, they've had some for some Viagra commercials. Right into the bedroom, you know. They've had it for hair, throat stuff. I've seen like when she texts, my parents are gone or something, sprinting over there. running over there, yeah. But it's nice that people take the time to do that. I mean, I'm not tech savvy at all. So I don't know how long it takes to do all that stuff. But I appreciate people doing that. What's so funny about it is that meme stands alone. So many people don't know where, when, what the matches. So for those people that don't know, Uh, WrestleMania 24, Orlando, Undertaker, Edge. There we go.

Jim Cordares, he takes a bump. Yeah. Me, being the professional athlete that I am, I start hauling butt down the ring, you know? So just going, don't fall, don't fall, don't fall. Yeah, people don't remember this. No, no. It's, um, but they remember the run. I have people on the street that know nothing about wrestling.

You're that meme guy. What? What are you talking about? I'm the meme. guy. There's a lot worse things to be known for. I know, right? So now that is, that is epic. Yeah. So the, the rundown of the ring you took this year with Sina, he hits you full, hard. You went flying. But I wanted to like hit me a little bit harder so maybe I'd go over the wall or hit the steps. Over the wall? Yeah. That would have been like 10, 15 feet. Yeah, the steps.

That was my goal to hit the steps, but I didn't go that far. That was such an iconic moment. They turned it into a trading card. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, that's a Tops Now card. Yeah. I bought 10 myself. Just 10?

My brother bought 20. He bought more than I did. He was trying to get that one of one. Yeah. That autograph card. Yeah. I like to see who has that. Ooh.

Right. Maybe someone watching this. Did you buy one? I bought like 15 of them. Did you? Yeah. I should have brought them. I could have signed them for you.

I would have my own one of one. Yeah. I just got a brand new pin to sign. Someone watching this is going to pull that one of one. I'm sure at some point in time they're going to run into you. I can't wait to see that photo. I want to see it too. I want to buy it.

That's your first trading card since WCW. We had one in 2016. Okay. Terrible picture. I'm holding up the title. It's a side view showing my widow's Pete, so I didn't like that one. maybe this year new cards for the referees i hope oh right why not i'm tops is making cards for pretty much everything right now they needed

i tried to give them to do one for the spear for goldberg oh yeah saturday night main event so goldberg smoked you with that spear yeah i mean normally he picks you up lays you down nice and soft he went right through me did and he cracked your rib well no no no no my girlfriend and i were in the I said, what can I do to put this over to make Goldberg feel good? And I said, there was an image of a broken rib online. So I just posted that. No. Yeah.

People thought Goldberg hurt you. Yeah. People were so mad at him for that. Yeah. And I called him to tell him what I was doing. Yeah. And he goes, that's a great idea. So he didn't mind.

Oh, man. People were giving him such grief. Now, I was sore, seriously, for about 10 days, you know, coughing and stuff. It can't do anything about a rib anyway. So why go get it checked? But just to set the record straight here. I'm tougher than Goldberg. Goldberg did not...

You're next. Goldberg did not break your rib. No. No. Did Goldberg hand-select you for that match for his final match? I heard that he did, but I do not know. I don't know if I ever get requested for a match or not. That's not a thing?

No. Not with me. Maybe with, I think I listened to yours with Mike Kyoto. Yeah. And I think he's been requested quite a bit to do matches and stuff. But maybe, I think maybe Edge for Toronto for his last match when I got knocked out of my shoe. The one with Seamus. Yeah.

Yeah. And my shoe was left in the ring. Yeah. What happened there? I don't know. He hit pretty hard. I just went flying. So, but I don't think.

I've ever been requested. I don't know. Yeah. That moment at WrestleMania 40, when Cody finished the story and finally won the WWE championship, I was crying. That was, that was emotional. Yeah? Yeah.

Yeah. Just felt great to be part of that, you know. I mean, he was crying. I was crying. His mom was crying. Everybody was crying. So. It was such a beautiful moment.

Yeah. When you handed him the championship. Yeah. And he almost pauses for a minute. Like, this is it. Yeah. Like this. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. Story done. Right. Yeah. Yeah. What was the feeling just that day leading up to that match? I was just proud to be part of that.

I mean, that's one of the biggest stories in the last 10 years, right? Yeah. So just to be part of that is, it was amazing. And that's one of the most iconic WrestleMania main events, really ever. Yeah. And I know it's, it's tough with recency bias. because that's just a year and a half ago now. But I think that that's going to be a match

that people are talking about 10 years from now, 20 years from now, and so on, just because that match had everything. Yeah. And I put it up there. You know, you hear Hogan Rock, WrestleMania 18, how iconic. I put that match up there with that, you know,

because it meant that much. Right. And, you know, I love to talk about how I was there at WrestleMania 18. You were as well. Flair taker. That's right. But that wasn't the main event. Hogan versus Rock wasn't the main event, which is mind blowing, right?

Like one of the most iconic matches, period, obviously one of the most iconic WrestleMania matches. Of course. It's the third last match on the card. So when you're talking about this Cody Roman match at WrestleMania 40, night two, that's special because it is the main event. And it's the main event of a two-night show, too. And it's everything leading up to it.

It's Cody not winning the year before in Los Angeles. and like having to like rebuild win the rumble again get that opportunity again then it all comes to go it all came together it's amazing what they do yeah you know from the producers to to the talent uh to the writers you know it takes everybody to make make this work did that one two three when cody won the championship means something more to you um yeah i mean that was close closure for him in this and for for me to be part of it i mean that's why i get emotional i mean i cry about everything you know you'll probably have me crying about something here tonight um but you know it just felt good to be part of just like with sena when he tied flare's record you know

and he picked me up and hugged me you know i was sobbing like a baby then too you know i'm just being part of of this history just means a lot and don't know why they put me in there, you know. I'll put it this way. I don't think I'm the best referee out there. I think I'm, no, no, no. Most recognizable. I get that with the hair and all.

But seriously, I think there's other referees that are 10 times better than what I am. They look more legitimate. Like John Cohn, when he refereed, you know, he's head of talent relations. He's a talent. very believable. Chad Patton, very, very believable as a referee to enforce the rules. So I learn from them all the time and I'm always learning. I always loved the Mike Kyoto like, hey, I'm the referee. Yeah, yeah.

Mike wasn't afraid to get in people's faces. No, not at all. He's like Rod Sepada's like the new, like Keota for getting in their face. He loves to get in the face of the guys. He's fired up when he rings the bell. You know, he's already hot at him. So that's funny. Yeah, you've been part of a lot of big moments even just over the last few years. Yeah.

Like, you're the guy they call on for the big matches. Well, I think you'll get seen his last match? No. It's a raw thing's on Monday night. It should be Chad Pattton. Chad's been his referee for ever. You mean it's a raw crew, right? Because the last match isn't happening on Raw.

Yeah. Yeah. It's a raw crew. Yes. the referees in case you didn't know, we're separated. I do strictly Smackdown and the other guys, you know, they're all crew. And we have the NXT guys as well. Yeah.

But yeah, it should be Chad. I think that makes sense. You know, senior official? Still can't believe. He is the senior official. He's been there longer than anybody. Yeah. You know.

Longer than you? Yeah. He started out. He like announced. He did some announcing. I think that lasted a week. he was so bad. And he did ring crew and then he started referee him.

But he was there before I was in 2001. Wow. Yeah. So I don't know what year he started. Maybe 99. But for the company, he's senior guy. Yeah. Do you have a favorite match that you've worked?

No. No. Dude, there's too many. You know, Flair, Flair, Sean, huge. Yeah. Right? Take her, Sean. Sean's retired.

You know, matches like that are great. AJ, John Cena. So there's hundreds and hundreds. And I don't downgrade any match that I do. You know, I don't want to do that. That's this one. They're all important. They're all telling us story.

So I'm just happy to be in there doing this. I mean, I'm so lucky for 30 years, almost 30 years to be doing this. Yeah. You know. What do you think makes a great referee? When you talk about, like, you don't think you're that great, which is a complete lie, but we'll pretend for a minute here. What makes a great referee great?

Being very believable, being able to enforce the rules and make everyone believe it, and seriously not being too far over the top. You know, I think that's very, very important. And to look good, I hate when I see referees that just don't take care of themselves or they're sloppy, they have their shirt tails out, and stuff's like, dude, take a little pride in your work, you know. That's why whenever I'm out in public and traveling, I try to dress to represent the company, you know, and I think that's the most important part.

What's the advice you have when a young referee comes up to you and says, hey, how can I get better at this? Watch tapes, ask questions, you never stop learning. I mean, I talk to referees that I've been refereeing for one year, and I can think up stuff that they do. Because after you've been doing it a while, Chris, you can become a little lazy or complacent and you just forget to do stuff. Yeah. You know, sometimes you're just going through the motions, you know?

You don't want to be, but that's human nature, right? So sometimes people will say stuff to you. I mean, our female referees are fantastic and they're always saying stuff when they're not in makeup. That is. That's for you, Daphne. Yeah. Okay. She knows what I'm talking about. What's the secret to not telegraphing a near fall? You're so good at it. Well, thank you. You're so good at two and seven-eighths. Yeah. And I like to do the swipe. I think the stopping, number one, it's not good for your shoulder because it's a lot of force. I mean, you're hitting it as hard as you can.

So that's the thing it is. No, the guys say, hey, make it close. It's really not up to us to make it close. It's up to them to kick out close. Yeah. Right. And are you timing it with them? I'll go down.

I'm counting out loud for one thing. Yeah. So they can hear it. And a lot of times I'll say kick out when I get down there. So they know to kick out. Yeah. Because sometimes guys forget, you know. And in our,

defense because people say, oh, they don't kick out, count three. Well, if you know that's not the finish, guess what? Mentally, you're going to swipe. Yeah. We're not counting for, it's not a shoot, you know, so it makes it much more difficult to do that. I hear that all the time, man, they didn't kick out. Well, dude, that wasn't the finish. You know, we'll try to fix it some other way, but it's either we're going to count all the time, shoot. Yeah. And you just kick out or not. which would end a lot of matches quickly. Yeah. Or we just, when they don't kick out, we just try to fix it somehow.

There was a match with Chris Jericho and Neville. And at the end of the match, it looked like Chris Jericho was like really getting into it with you. Yeah, Neville was injured. Like actually injured. Right. He did a slide. He did something to his ankle. I'm asking him, are you okay? Or he would, dude, he wouldn't answer me.

So I figure he's okay. You know, if you hurt, you're going to say, yeah, I'm hurt. all of a sudden they go into a little roll-up and one, two, his shoulder comes up just a little bit. So I know it's not the finish. Swipe it. Jericho gets hot, right? He's yelling at me. He's pushing on me.

Cussing at me. I'm cussing at him. Tell him, get his freaking hands off of me. And, um... So then you de-queue him. I decueing. Go to the back. He's hot.

that Chris and I talked about this. He even said, man, I was just acting. I said, really, Chris. I said, I've seen your movies. You're not that good of an actor. You were really hot. So, but, you know, crap happens. So he's trying to protect Neville in that spot.

He knows he's hurt. Let's just roll him up, count it. Yeah. So is he saying to you in the ring, that was the finish? Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, he goes, I told you it's the finish. I didn't hear you tell me it's the finish, you know?

If I'd heard it, I could have worked with you. I didn't hear it, Chris. What do you think I'm doing? Just trying to go against you, I would never do that. He's bigger than me. He's pushing you around pretty hard too. I pushed him back, you know. I think I dropped a few bad words on live TV.

Mother effort. Yeah, I think I said that. Don't you effing touch me again, something like that. I need to know the story behind this cartwheel into the pin. What a beautiful. Man, I should be a gymnast. You should be a gymnast. This clip pops up all the time, and I don't know if people know what's actually happening here.

These were the dark matches before the live shows, live TVs. We had the great Mr. Briscoe doing the timing at that point. and he would do this to all the referees. We'd be going in the finish, he'll say, do a cartwheel, do a face plant, do this. I've done the Rick Flair bump into a count. I've done a roll into the count, the cartwheel. I didn't know they had all this stuff on film, which is great to have, right? But he used to do that every single Monday and every single Smackdown taping.

He would have one other if he's do something ridiculous. And the fans are going, what the hell is going on? You know, but it was fun. It made it fun. It made the fans enjoy it. It made the superstars because they wouldn't know what's going to happen. They'd start laughing in the ring. It's like, what are you doing, Charles, you know?

But that's something we miss doing. I wish we could do it again. What about house shows? Could you do it at a house show now? what else shows? Yeah, I guess there's not a lot of live events anymore, right? Yeah, we don't have one. Yeah.

I think we'll be doing some at Christmas time. Okay. You always do the Christmas tour. Okay, this sounds great. You know, if the producer gets in my ear and tells me to do it, I'll do it. But I'm not going to do it myself. We're putting it out into the world now. Dude, I don't do anything without getting permission.

Well, that's probably a good thing. We didn't even do this interview without getting permission. Yeah. And then I asked somebody else because I didn't. trust you. That's not true. That's not true. But that's, look, I think that one of the reasons that you've had so much longevity, the reason that you've had the career you've had is because you do what you're asked. Yeah. And, and you, and I will, you know. Yeah. I mean, this is, people always say, way, WCWC, W.WC. WWE's home. You know, this is where I want to be.

This is the company that's treated me the best. Um, so I'll do what they ask me to do. Well, think about it. You were in WCW for four years? Four years. And you've been in WWE for? Since 2001. 24 years. Wow.

Yeah. So people make a big deal about WCW, but WVE. That's just nostalgia. And I say this all the time. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug. Especially the little NAC thing. I mean, people from so many years ago and people still come up and talk about that. I mean, how do people remember something?

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. Right. Right. And for a lot of people, seeing you takes them right back to a place in a time in the late 90s. Right. And it makes them feel a certain way. And that's the, you know, beautiful thing about nostalgia. Yeah, that's why I break out the rope every once around.

That's true. On the house. What are you doing like, you do like birthday shoutouts wearing the rope sometimes. I do. I do. I do, I do know, people say, do came out. I ain't going to do camey. I'm not going to charge somebody for me saying happy birthday to them.

they think enough and can find a way to contact me in the right way, I'll do it. Don't put that out there. I'll just wait until you, maybe you'll get one of my special birthday. I'll show you afterwards, but I just sent to one of my friends who had a birthday. Not appropriate. I'll show it to you. Show me after. Well, May 19th.

Yeah. So you got some time. We have some time. I'll show you what it is. That was very funny. How many matches you think you've worked? if you just had to throw out a random number. Jeez.

Like is it north of 5,000? I would say maybe 5,000. 10,000? I don't think so. I think Kyoto said he did, what, 9,000, 10,000? Because he's like, crazy. Well, he's like, look, we worked like 300 days. Yeah.

Sometimes we were working three, four, five matches. Yep. So if you're doing the math on that, that's a thousand to 1,500 every single year. If I have one regret, it's not tracking and keeping tabby. on all of my matches. Because there's cagematch.net for the wrestlers. Right. And you can go in there, you can see every match they've ever worked.

They don't have the referees though. Right. Yeah. That would have been cool, right? So I wish I would have done that. So is 5,000 maybe too low? Because, look, 24 years. And you're not doing as many matches now that you were 20 years ago.

But there was a point in time when you were doing everything, right? Live events, Ross, Smackdown, PLEs. Dude, if I'm going to exaggerate, I'm going to say I did 25,000 matches. But if we do... I really don't know. I mean, I'd say between 5 and 10. How many matches a year do you think you do now? Now?

Yeah. A few hundred? Yeah, maybe. You got to think 52 weeks. Yeah. So maybe one or two matches a week. Okay. On Smackdown.

Then you're throwing a PLE once a month. Yeah. And then we do some live events, 150 maybe, right? Okay. Maybe. So if that's on the low end now. Because live events, we only use two referees. Right.

We have a crew ref and then a full-time ref. So that's, yeah. Wow. What's been the greatest honor of your career? Is it certain matches? Is it being there for certain moments? It's the moments, you know. And being there for the fans.

You know, I'll never, ever, ever, if a fan walks up, wants a pitcher or an autograph, never, unless I'm working, tearing down the ring. Right. I've never denied them. You're on a time crunch when you're doing it. Because, yeah, I mean, it's, we wouldn't have a job without the fans. I think people forget that sometimes. I'm there for you because you've paid your harder money, not to see me, but to see our product.

And I like to honor that. you've been there for some of the most iconic matches so i want to go through a few of these okay so let's go through sean michael's versus rick flare the incredible i'm sorry i love you moment what's just the vibe going into that match and putting that match together um i spent all the time with them you know during the day just hearing the flow and how they wanted to finish rick's story I mean, growing up being a huge Rick Flair fan, I mean, that was, I mean, I bleached my hair for the first time in the seventh grade, you know, just to be like the nature boy. So just to be part of that in, I don't think anybody asked, but I think it made sense for them to put me in that match with our past. Yeah, a lot of history.

Yes. That's the word history. I can't think I went blank. Because they wouldn't, so, you know, emotionally that's probably the biggest match I have ever done emotionally. You know, I'm like blowing snobbles and stuff when I'm killing. You're crying too? Oh, I'm bawling. When he's setting up for the super kick, I've already started crying.

My back's a little bit to the camera, I think. That was it. I mean, Rick was supposed to be done. Yeah. Yeah, and I just had Sean Michaels on the show recently, and he's saying, look, of course, Flair had matches after that. Yeah. But we didn't know that in that moment. Right.

In that moment, this was it. Yeah. And you can see Flair is just bawling, falling. And Rick, in his defense, he had to do what he had to do. He had to do another match. I have no problem with that. This is a hard business. I never want to step away from this business.

Yeah. And step away is a hard thing to do. when he did his other retirement match in Nashville. Yep. I think Mike Keota did that. He did, yeah. And he got bumped and everybody was like, where's Charles? Where's Charles?

He's going to run down the ramp. But I was denied permission to go. So. And I know that I should have been. I know Flair ended up working way more matches after that, but what a perfect finish to a career. That was a great story. Yeah.

Yeah. And like with his family there at ringside. I mean, it was wonderful. And he's crying and he's saying, come on, like, give me all you got. Like, yeah. I'm sorry. I love you. Boom.

I am. Yeah. Yeah. That was such a good one. Such a good one. Yeah. Goosebumps. WrestleMania 18.

It's, uh, Taker versus Flair. Yeah. That was, um, that, that, that meant a lot for. Two reasons. Number one, my first WrestleMania. Of course, they threw me in with Rick and take her. What a great match. Very important because my wife at the time, she had cancer.

And that was the last WrestleMania that she got to go to. So, yeah. So she was up there with me and she was doing chemo and stuff. And she came to the WrestleMania just to support me. Wow. So great match and great to have her there. How different did WrestleMania feel after working in WCW for up to that point your whole career? Bigger than I ever imagined.

You know, I think there was snow on the ground. It was March 17, 2002. I think there was snow. I remember. It was miserable weather. The poster on my wall. Ah, yeah. Because that's technically still winter.

It springs a few days later. Canada, it technically is for a little bit longer than that, right? I know. Yeah. So, but what a great moment. Yeah. To be part of that. When there was initial conversations of WCW going under, and then you finally find out,

okay, WWF's going to buy us out. That's interesting. Yeah. Did you think everybody has a job. Don't worry. Did you think you'd have a job? No, I went out and started, I got a job. Manual labor.

I was digging. Oh, you got a job job. Yeah, yeah. I was helping build decks on homes, you know, using a pole digger manual. I did that for two, two and a half months. And, you know, I didn't know. You can't take what anyone says until it happens. You know, so, hey, I have bills to pay.

Go to work. So was your mindset at that time like, man, I had a good run in this wrestling. Yeah, this was fun, you know. I did six years in this wrestling business. Yeah. Pretty good. And like at the end of June, they called me up and they said be in Tacoma, July the 2nd. You remember the date?

I do. It's my birthday. Oh. Yeah. So what a birthday, right? What a perfect birthday present. So that's when I started up. And then you were like, like actually.

This is fun. Yeah. Referees were great when I came in. Have I ever told you meeting the Rock? No. first time I met the Rock. So referees, they used to play card games all the time. They're playing cards.

Maybe in a little bit of a smart ass. I had a bottle of water. And Jack Don said something. So I like, like, flick the water on him. Well, they tackle me. Then they tape me up. They put me in a chair. They do my finger like this.

They put a sign that says, The Rock Coo, and they push the chair. introduced me to Dwayne Johnson. So that's my introduction to The Rock. What was the Rock's reaction? He gave me the eyebrow. That's it. Very good. Yeah. I can't do that. And he walked away. He didn't realize this was a prank or a joke.

I don't know. He didn't sell it. He's he's that good of an actor. Did you have a moment later on where you went, hey, I'd like to act. actually introduced myself to you. He was a big star. I wasn't going to talk to him. Really? I was four years in the business, man. I get intimidated by people. Huh. Even now, you know, I don't like to, I don't like to bother people. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So when we're talking about big matches here, you also worked Sean Michael's last match. I did. I'm retiring a lot of people. Yeah, you've been there for a lot of retirement matches. A lot of retirement matches. Yeah. That match is, I mean, both of the matches with Sean Michaels and Undertaker, they're damn near perfect. Yeah, there's a common denominator there isn't there?

You? No, Sean Michaels. Yeah, for him to be great matches. Yeah. I mean, a bad referee can really mess up a match, but it takes the other two guys to make it a really great match. Yeah. Did you feel the weight of that match? Did you feel the weight of like, this is, I know this is it? Yeah. Emotionally, it wasn't as big as Rick Flares match, of course. But it's like, wow, this guy's done. And everything that he's done in this business, you know, I mean, it's, dude, it's over.

Yeah. You know, so, and he's the type of person that doesn't come back. You know, it's going to be like Sina. Yeah. Man, when he's done at the end of the year, he's done, he'll walk away and I come back. People seem to think, like, Sina, oh, he'll wrestle again. No. He might make, he will make other appearances.

Yeah, of course. In terms of matches, this is it. Yeah, I think he'll be a great ambassador to the company. Yeah. I'll tell anybody this. He'll say, who's the greatest? To me, it's the person who has done the most in a positive manner for this business, John Cena.

And I think that it is lost on people that, look, I'm not going to take away from any of the people who I'm going to list here, but Stone Cold wasn't around for that long. Right. It was a pretty short window there. Same with the Rock. Rock was, like, debuted in 96 and was in Hollywood by 2002. And of course, he made other appearances here and there, but, like, there's been consistency with John Cena.

Oh, my gosh. It's good. You're tearing up. Yeah, I'm good. Why does that make you emotional? Just knowing that he's going to be gone, you know? Like, Sena. Because he's a good, good, good guy.

Yeah. that does great things for our business. I've never heard anything bad about John Sina doing anything, you know. So like Sina debuts and then a few years later, he's the guy, right? Like mid-2000s in the ruthless aggression area. Right. He is putting the company on his back and carrying it for at least the next 10 years. And then there's a point in time late 2010s when he's doing movies and he's popping back in.

But for a good 10 plus years, he's the guy. Yeah. He's super Sina. And I love the appreciation he's getting now. Me too. Deserves it. Absolutely deserves it. There was a point in time when it was, let's go Sina, Sita sucks like that for a long time.

Everybody now, when John Sina's music hits, it's nothing about appreciation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I certainly appreciate him. I'll be texting, bothering him every once in a while. How many Sina matches have you worked on this farewell tour? one or two not very many which ones i think the bump i think the bump was it the run down and the

huge bump huge bump yeah i put him over made him look like a chip are there any bumps we haven't got to here so one of the biggest biggest bumps i took i was from goldberg um jericho was in the ring Goldberg was doing a run-in. I'm fighting with the title. This must have been like after WrestleMania 19 or somewhere in there because I had really short, cropped hair, which I hate it. And Goldberg jumps in the ring and Chris throws me into the Goldberg spear. And he just rolls with me.

I mean, it's like a lion. Yes. Just taking its prey. So that was pretty incredible. Are there any others we've missed? I feel like we've gone through some of the biggest ones. You've taken some massive bumps. And I've wrestled some big guys.

I wrestled the Great Collie. Yes. I had him begging for mercy. Great Collie like chops you on top of the head. And I do the flare bump, right? The flare front bump. Yeah. It was so good.

They popped for that. They thought that was funny because I didn't tell anybody I was going to do it. But I said, I'm taking the flare bump. That was hilarious. Yeah. It's so much of this just popping your friends, like making them laugh, making them smile. Popping myself. Popping yourself.

Popping myself, yeah. I like to make people happy. So, you know, if it's going to do that without taking away from the match, come on, let's admit it. That wasn't a real match. That was just a little go get your popcorn or whatever. When do you feel like your hair became a part of who you are? Like, I feel like early on it was just like, are you, you? you were the blonde ref right um it's been a long time my mom she used to do hair and i was her guinea pig

so when i had my hair first done back in the seventh grade they used to call me phara so phara faucet for those that don't know look it up she was hot yeah yeah um but i've always had you know the blonde hair in wrestling except for maybe just a few times when I cut it short and then let it get dark or couldn't get in to get the hair done. I mean, my hair is naturally blonde. So, I'm in. Sorry. Yeah.

Does this, does it just naturally fall like this now? Like, after so many years of doing it? Yeah. Like, you get out of bed and that's it? That's pretty much it. Yeah. There's no product in your hair. You can tell there's product in my hair.

There's very, very little. I mean, I put just a little dollop is what they call it. It's a little piece size. A little piece size and that's it. Then I'll use hairspray for TV. Keep it from. Well, it's masterful. Yeah.

It's baby fine. That's the only problem. I mean, it likes to fall. When it gets wet and humid, it's. Yeah. If it gets humid. Or if it gets too long, it doesn't look good. Well, I didn't think we'd go this deep into hair talk, but here we are.

Yeah, now I need some gray. Have a little gray right here on the side too. I don't think so. No. No, man. Like, you have not really aged. It's amazing. Well, thank you.

Thank you. It's true. And also like... I think it's from, you know, I don't smoke. I've never smoked. I really don't drink. So I think it's those things. I love to wake surf.

So being on the lake, I'm always putting a lot of sunscreen on. So I try to protect my skin. And I think it's also like you still move like you did 20 years ago. Like I don't feel like there's anything you can't do now at 61. Thank you. That you couldn't do it 31, 14. whatever the case may be. I feel good, you know.

I do. I feel like I'm seriously in my late 30s, early 40s. So I just want to keep plugging along. I'm telling you, you could ref into your 70s. I'm ready to be back in the ring from this broke foot. You could be the first referee who referees in five decades. So you're only five years away from it. I think I'm the only active WCW guy still around.

I think that's a fact for sure. Right. Wow. referee you mean even talent well right what wrestler from wcw is here very mysterio he went to eccw didn't he didn't he have a little right the boy that is quite the asteris we are putting on that one hey if everybody else can do it if shamus can do it for his chris jericho yeah with w w ee okay yeah yeah i mean shamus is putting the asterisk for his i see i see okay yeah i'll let's to your podcast. You listen to this morning's episode? Oh, wow. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I couldn't sleep. I was trying to

find something. This guy. This guy. I see what you're me. I see what you mean. Someone who never left the company. Right. Right. Because Ray Mysterio went to Luja Underground. Ray Mysterio did some AAA stuff. Then he came back to WWE. Okay. So what I'm talking about. I see what you're talking about. So give me, give me something. I think that's a fact. Right. I think, yes. I deserve a bonus. I believe you do. So let's start a go-fund me. Seems like everybody's doing that nowadays. I can't wait to see what's next for you.

Me either. Like, you are such a joy to watch. Well, thank you. And off-camera, you are one of the kindest, nicest people that I've ever met, and I'm grateful to be able to call you a friend. You're a wonderful person. Thank you. Thank you.

And can't wait to see pictures of your kids after this. Oh, man. Oh, they're beautiful. Right. Yeah. You're going to make me cry now. Yeah. They are beautiful.

I cannot believe that I have two kids. It is the most incredible, amazing thing. Right. Being a father's changed me so drastically. Changes everybody. Yeah, that's the best. Especially the good guys. It changes.

For the bad guys, it probably doesn't change. It's the absolute best. Yeah. I'll ask you the question that I ask everybody at the end. And again, Charles, you are a living legend. I don't take, I don't take, it's hard for me to take. Just say thank you. You know, I know, it's just hard for me.

I appreciate the compliment. You're a living legend. I have enjoyed this conversation so much. So thank you for doing it. Yeah, I'm still a lot. Yeah, still a lot. You're doing it. So thank you for making the time to do this.

Thank you. What are three things in your life, Charles, are you grateful for as we sit here right now? One thing I'm grateful for is that I have a career doing what I love. of and have been doing it for almost 30 years and can continue to do it. Not very many people can say that. Most people are in jobs that they hate. Yeah.

I love my job, with the exception of getting on a plane every week. People are so rude on planes. So funny. This could be an entirely separate podcast, but people just lose their way in an airplane. They do. They just think it's 100% about them. I mean, I get out and I stand in the aisle and do a courtesy block so the people in my rows can get out. You know, people don't, they want to rush.

It's like, people come down. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I don't think people understand. Like, if you're in row 15, that means that 14 rows exit the plane before you. Yes. That's how it works. Just stop.

And the people walking around airports. Like, they're just in their own world. Yep. Stopping. Oh, is that? I'll just stop right in front of somebody that's on their phone. and let them run into me. What are you doing?

Wake up. You know, seriously, wake up. Yeah. Or on the, we're getting off topic. But it's so funny, the walkways, the moving walkways. Yeah, yeah. People think they're at Disneyland. They'll get on and just stand there.

It's like, this isn't a ride. Yeah. Yeah, just to move you faster. Yeah. You know, understand the people that can't, but they're, you have these young kids just on their phones. Yeah. Get off your phone.

Yeah. First thing I did when I walked in here, turned off the phone. Yeah, that was, yeah, that was very cool. You know, hey, I'm a nice guy. All right, so you're grateful for your amazing job. Yes. Second is for my amazing family and friends.

I have an incredible daughter, Jessica, she's a flight nurse on a helicopter. She's out there saving lives. Wow. You know, so that's cool. I have the most amazing girlfriend in the world. I mean, how many girlfriends do you know? You come home and they say, hey, Let me rub your feet.

Let me rub your legs and we'll sit on the cows and she'll rub my feet and legs for like an hour. Do you? Do you get that? Every day? I'm the one doing the... Oh, you are. She's still... But she is the most amazing woman.

We actually get off subject again, but we actually dated when she was in high school and I had just joined the Navy. Thank you for your service. It was fun. I was on submarines, which was pretty. cool. Wow. How many lives have you lived? Many, many lives. But, you know, we dated for a while, and then she quit calling, quit writing. I don't know. And then you reconnected all those years later? Reconnected. And then we dated for a while, and then she broke up with me because she'll kill me, but I played the George Michael song, I can't make you love me. And she wrote me a letter for text

I don't even remember she broke up with me again. Man. Then we got back together. She's wonderful. Amazing. But, you know, family and friends, they're so important to me. Especially my family in WWE, the referees. I would do anything for any of them, seriously.

So I'm very, very grateful for that. So we have my job. We have family and friends. The fans. I'm grateful for every single one of them. even the ones that don't like me, you know? There are some. No, there are.

Yeah, there's a guy he cussed me out. He doesn't like me. I wouldn't sign his thing for his kid. That's because you were, you were working. Yeah. But that's it, you know. Yeah.

Job, family friends, and the fans. I know you were a huge horror fan. What is your all-time favorite horror movie? Dude, that's like saying, what's your favorite match? Right? It's ridiculous. ridiculous question. I mean, it really is.

You know, it's according to the, the mood that I'm in. Okay. I mean, big George Romero fan, you know, so the Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead, I love the whole series. It may not be a horror movie, but Jaws, I consider it. Sure. I think a lot of people consider that a more movie. One of my favorite is American Werewolf in London.

Classic. I have, look at here, right there, right. Oh, yeah. Look how limber this man. is. Look at that. But I have George Michael in the other. It is.

George Michael. That's beautiful. Woo-hoo. So wait until 60 years old to get a tattoo, right? Your first tattoo is that crazy. Wow. Nuts. And I was in the Navy.

Hell Sailor are supposed to have tattoos. Yeah. Right. So, yeah. American War Wolf in London, I love. Tim Curry, big fan of Tim Curry. So the original, it, on TV, I love. Yeah.

You also collect a lot of horror memorabilia. Yeah, but I have a lot stolen. That's, I can't believe that. Yeah, yeah. I had like $70,000 stolen that. What's the one piece from your collection that you wish you could get back? It's not even horror. It was all my evil-can-eval toys,

sailed in boxes that you just can't find anymore. Yeah. So if you see it for sale, you know it's yours? If it pops up on eBay. Well, and we looked at eBay. I actually had a big Jaws statue, and I saw one on eBay, and I said, oh, man, I'll just try to buy it. I just wanted to replace it. I wrote the guy, said, hey, mine got stolen.

I want to try to replace it. How much we sold it to me for? He went away. Then I looked at the pitcher, and it had a Walmart moving box in the background that I had it in. Oh. Yeah. So, missed out on that.

Wow. You found the thief. Found the thief. But they couldn't get the guy for some reason. Man. Because you can't, they could not prove

that it came from somebody else. You know, he bought it from somebody else. Yeah. Wow. Well, look, I've thoroughly enjoyed this. I've had a good time.

I hope it's okay. This is great. And I feel like we need to do many more of these. So in another few years, When I wear you down. You won't have to wear me down. Get you to say yes again.

I was just, I just want, you have a great show, Chris, you know. Thank you. And I want to be up to your standard to do it. I'm telling you. Because I listen to all your shows and I watch them and stuff. Oh, my God. And I see how people respond and how good you interact. And, dude, I'm just a freaking redneck from North Carolina.

I hate the way my voice sounds, you know. So I talk too fast sometimes and bumble over my words. No. So I just want to be up to your standard. You have been such... Number one. You've been such a requested guest. I don't believe that.

It's so true. You've been such a requested. By who? All of the people. All of the people. All of the people in the comments. Everybody who watches or listens to the show. Well, I heard your show today saying, if it works out, I assume you're talking about me, right?

Yes. Right? I can't believe you'd listen to my show. Of course I do. You're a real one. Yeah. Of course I listen. Ask CVV episodes. And I leave, I leave comments and stars. One star is the best, right? That's right. Number one. What? Yeah. Five stars, please. Five stars, yeah. But Charles, thank you so much. No, thanks for having me here. Well, there we go. The great Charles Robinson, ladies and gentlemen.

What a freaking legend. That guy has stories for days. I love this one. I hope that you enjoyed it as well. Huge thank you to Charles. for joining us and also thank you for listening all the way until the end here. Please share this episode with someone who you know loves Charles Robinson. And I'm sure that's a long list of people who love Charles Robinson and snap a screenshot and tag us. He's at WWE Robinson. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and we'll wrap this up with a great quote from Greg Reed. A dream written down with a date becomes a goal. A goal broken down into steps becomes a plan. A plan backed by action makes your dreams come true. Be great and be grateful, my friend. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Ask CVV 102 tomorrow.

If you've got a question, leave a comment on Spotify. Shoot me an email CVV at chrisfanvely.com or leave it on social media with that hashtag Ask CVV, but we'll see you tomorrow on Friday. for Ask CBV 102. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about.

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