Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chris Harris on TNA, America's Most Wanted & Elix Skipper's CRAZY Cagewalk

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

Chris Harris (@amwwildcatchrisharris) is a professional wrestler known for his time in TNA as part of the tag team America's Most Wanted with James Storm. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about working for WCW until it was purchased by Vince McMahon, being part of the early days of TNA Wrestling, how he was teamed up with James Storm, the success of AMW, becoming the 6-time tag team champions, taking the crazy cagewalk hurricanrana from Elix Skipper and Turning Point 2004, his time in WWE as Braden Walker, what he is up to now and much more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Create a beautiful website for your podcast is just 5 minutes: https://www.podpage.com/?via=cvv Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are gathered. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blele! Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet, and you know me. I always love talking to a fellow Chris. And if you're a TNA fan, you know all about Wildcat Chris Harris. He was part of one of TNA's most famous tag team, AMW, America's Most Wanted. But did you know Chris Harris was also famous.

Jake Sting in both WCW and Impact Wrestling. Oh, yeah. There's a ton of great stuff to dig into here. And I think a lot of people remember the famous pagewalk that Elyx Skipper did at Turning Point 2004. A lot of people forget, though. It was Chris Harris that he gave that move to. Oh, we talk about it all. If you could take a second today, please leave a rating on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

I can't tell you how much it helps the show. And I'm assuming you're already subscribed. But if not, hit subscribe or follow wherever you're listening to this right now. Also, hit follow for Chris Harris on social media. On Instagram, he's at AMW Wildcat Chris Harris on Twitter. AMW Wildcat. I'm at Chris Van Vleet, and Chris Harris isn't on there a lot. But I imagine he would spend a little bit more time on there if you sent him a message or maybe a screenshot

and let him know that you listen to this episode. Let him know that you really enjoy this. I hope you enjoy this. is what I'm saying. Let's get into it. It's me and Chris Harris on Insight. Well, there we go. You know what? I've said it before. I'll say it every single time. I've never met a Chris that I don't like. So Chris Harris, thank you so much for coming on. Well, thank you, Chris. I really appreciate it, man. It's great to be part of this. No, and look at, look behind you here. This is amazing. Where are we right now? This is like a, we're in a museum, I feel like. Oh, this is my wall of fame. I got a, I've been hitting ahead so many times. I forget a lot.

so I have to have something to remind me of some things I accomplished. Is that why you're wearing a TNA shirt? You can look down and go, oh, I did wear, yeah, TNA, too. And I remember this TNA, so I, you know, my impact shirt is way at the bottom and then all my TNA shirts are on time. That's a good point. Yeah, I mean, I know they say it's the same company, but if you're a real fan, you know that TNA and Impact Wrestling feel very different.

It does, but there's a lot of, it feels, it does feel a lot of the same as well. I mean, it was, you know, I'm so happy that, you know, we got 20 years in with this company, and I'm so happy that it's still going strong. But there was a lot of differences to where I feel like, you know, it was really, really on top when it was T&A. And I'm really hopeful that Impact Wrestling can get back to that top again. Well, I mean, Impact Wrestling has some of the very best in-ring wrestling right now in the world. So I feel like they're right there on the cusp of having more people go, Oh, yeah, this is so good. Why have I been sleeping on it?

Yeah, I think it's just a matter of getting the attention again. Some people are not even, and it could be something to do with the name change, but a lot of people are just not aware that it's still around because they knew about TNA, but, you know, as I remind them, a lot of them are asking, well, where can I see it? You know, because they are interested. And you're right. There's a phenomenal talent out there. There's no doubt about that.

But, and so I tell them it's on access TV and it's on Thursday nights. Well, a lot of people just don't get access. It's just a matter of the availability. You know, when I was around, we had Spike TV and, man, it was like one of the prime channels, you know, you could tune into. And it was kind of like the guy's channel, you know, because they were into the UFC and things like that. So I think availability is as big with that. And maybe if we can get impact, you know, give a little bit more of a little push. maybe we can hopefully maybe get you know get a better uh you know not necessarily time

slot but better better channel you know better visibility i like that you still talk about in fact as we like do you still feel like you're part of the family that could be just because of the you know me being there so recent but yeah i do i mean i i i never felt a part of any other company like i did t and uh and so when i talk about you know how i'm i'm glad to still going to strong. I mean, it just, I do feel a part of a we, and that's because that's a lot of because they've welcomed me in so many times. Anytime I stop by to say hi, anytime I come and I am actually doing something with them. I mean, they've been so welcoming. Everybody that's running the show now, you know, I know from the past. So I really do feel like it's wee. You know, that's always felt

like my home. And I love it like that. Well, look, so many people know you for your time in TNA. But if we take it back before that, like you were in WCW, and I'm curious what you think your career trajectory may have been if WCW didn't end up getting bought. Yeah. See, in my time growing up, it was the big two. It was WCW and WWE, and that's really what you wanted to strive for. That was the goal. And I had my connections with WCW. Of course, it started out as like a security kind of thing.

They were bringing groups in for security, but they had their WCW Worldwide program. They had WCW Saturday Night program, and those were programming for talent like myself, you know, to wrestle the big stars. And I was doing that almost every week. So I kind of figured they were happy with my work. You know, all the guys I worked with, it was just, it was pure honor. but, you know, to be able to continue down that road. So for the most of the year of 2000, that's what I was doing. I was performing in a lot of these matches getting work with stars like Booker T,

Shane Douglas, Kurt Henning. I mean, just a list of guys that I got to step in the ring with, which was just a privilege. There was so much talent there at that time. It was insane. There was. It's amazing that it was just being running to the ground when you had such, such amazing talent in that.

But I did wind up signing a contract, though. I signed a contract in October. So that let me know that, okay, they were looking to do something. But as we all know now, I mean, I had no idea at the time. There was so much going on behind the scenes that, you know, maybe the last thing they were looking to do was build new talent. I'm not sure. I mean, I think a lot of people worried about their jobs.

But I did sign a contract. So, I mean, I felt like there was something going there. And of course, six months later is when the unthinkable happened. You know, when like I said as a kid, the big two, one of them goes out of business. That's insane. You know, so it was just my luck that I was under contract at the time when it goes down. And yeah, everything, everything shut off. So it's back to the bottom.

But I was very happy that, I mean, I felt like that was a goal of mine and I achieved that goal. You know, to be part of the big two, I signed a contract. And it just kind of motivated me a little bit to where it's like, if I could do that, then I know I can move on. When they did get bought out, was there a meeting or something where they went, hey, this is what's happening. Some of you are going to WWF at the time. Some of you, I'm sorry, you know, like best of luck, I guess.

I've heard that there was a meeting. I don't remember when my last date was, but I'm sure it was early. If there was a meeting, you weren't a part of it, is what you were saying. I wasn't a part of it. they stopped bringing us in just, you know, it was extra money to bring extra guys in that they didn't need. So I'd say somewhere in early in 2001 is when they stopped bringing me in. And yeah, I'm sure as it got closer to, I think they made it to April, March or April. And yeah, I'm sure there was a meeting that they had.

But yeah, I wasn't a part of it. So wherever they had, they had their pick of everybody. So people, the guys at my level, you know, we just didn't have a chance. Well, it's hard to compete with, you know, I mean, the roster was just stacked. Scott Steiner, Booker T, Buff Bagwell, the list goes on and on and on and on. Yeah, and I think that's what happened. A lot of the top guys got to sit on their contracts. WW took a lot of the upper to mid card and started to do something with them.

But then anybody that was below that, yeah, they just kind of let go. So it's an interesting thing. I think that when you get into wrestling, you want to be the star and i feel like sometimes when you're put into a tag team sometimes there's some pushback where you're going i know i want to do this on my own i don't want to be part of a tag team what was what was your reaction to be putting a tag team in tna there you know it's hard to think back there may have been something to that because all my career at that point i had been singles yeah and uh storm the same and um so when they came

to the idea well first we were happy just to be be signed. And, but I, the truth is, I don't think they knew what to do with us. They, they were interested enough in our talent and knew they wanted us part of the company, but they just didn't know exactly what to do. And I always tell people, there was a lot of moving parts. They, you know, everything was just starting. They had to really focus on their top stars, but also building up some of the newer, newer stars. So they put us in a tag team. And Storm and I just kind of had the attitude. Like, you know, if this is what they're giving us, then we are going to take it and run with it.

That's just kind of how we were trained, how we were brought up in the business. You know, sometimes you're given something that you're not necessarily happy with. It could have been a lot worse. You know, when I look at it, they're saying you're going to team up with this cowboy, which I have nothing in common with.

It goes out to the rings, he shoots his guns off, and I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. But, no, the truth is there were a lot of similarities. But I think the difference is, is what a lot of people were attracted to. It was two separate guys, but yet we jailed as one. And like I said, we just had the attitude that if they're going to put us in a tag team, we are going to be the best tag team out there.

How long do you think it took to get that real chemistry going between you guys? Because you can watch any match now of America's those wanted and go, those guys have it. Yeah, man, that's the thing. It happened soon. It happened. Within the first year, I think our chemistry was getting down. Now, of course, the more experience we got, the better we're. we got. But, you know, the chemistry, and Storm and I had known each other for a little while.

We were on the Nashville scene at the time. And honestly, we wrestled each other a lot. So we had chemistry as opponents as well as teammates. So when we got put together, you know, we're already friends. We don't mind hanging out with each other on the road. You know, we became like brothers. But yeah, just the chemistry was just there, man. We, we, if you think back to 2000, 2002, there wasn't a whole lot of focus on tag team wrestling in any company, which at the time, it was pretty much WWE. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I think the TLC matches kind of made tag team wrestling relevant again, but that was really just a handful of teams. I 100% agree with you. I think the WWE just does not focus much on tag teams, but then in that time frame of 98, 99, 2000, you know, those teams that you're talking about, like the Dutch, Edgley's, Christian, the Hardee's, they really brought it back.

And I think there's a lot of similarities in that because they brought focus to tag team wrestling because there wasn't a whole lot going on. And they made people think, man, this is what tag team wrestling is like. Well, then it kind of, like you said, it goes back into a little rut there. And by the time we come around 2002, 2003, we, Storm and I are doing what we were taught to do, what we were trained to do when it comes to tag team wrestling, which was the old school, the 80s that we watched. And, you know, tag team wrestling was huge back then.

We were just doing, we were just applying what we had been taught. And I think that got attention from the wrestling world. Like, you know, man, these are, these are tag teams we can get into again. And TNA really let us focus on that. They were, they were focused on the heavyweight division, the X division, and then their tag teams. And they really let us take it, take it from there. And then not long after after that really focused. on the knockout's division.

I mean, TNA was like really leading the way with X Division, aka Cruiserweight, and tag teams and the women's division. I mean, look, you guys are like such pioneers, and I think a lot of what we see now is because of what we saw in TNA. Yeah, I mean, it was, they gave us the focus, and you can't argue with the talent. You know, you had, we had the established stars that were, you know, making the, it was the NWA title, making the NWA championship big again.

You put guys like AJ Stiles with the X division and that's going to soar, you know, a whole new division. I mean, think of that. You know, it's a whole new division that got put on the map by the talent. And then tag teams, they focused on tag teams and let America's most wanted, you know, kind of lead that ship. And so, yeah, and then later on with the knockouts division, you know, you put Gail Kim in something like that.

And, you know, you just, you can't argue with that. And we were given the opportunity. We were given the platform and just let it ride and take this. You had take it for a ride. Do you remember when you were first told about the idea of TNA being this weekly pay-per-view? And do you remember what your reaction was to it? During that short time between WCW and TNA, it was about a year, there were a few startup companies.

I say a few. There's probably a lot more than I realize. but and nothing was just catching on, nothing was happening. So when I heard about TNA, it probably wasn't long before the first pay-per-view, because I don't think they really broke anything. So I'd have to say it was early 2002, and I heard about, you know, another company starting out. And like I said, I'd been wrestling in Nashville, and that was kind of where it was going to be based out of.

So I heard a lot of rumblings about it. And there was a part of me that was like, okay, here's another one. But then, you know, when you're, when you're, when you're, hungry and eager, you know, at that stage of your career, you're ready to jump on anything. And so everybody just wanted to be a part of it no matter where it went. And I heard Jeff Gerrett was involved and I'd known Jeff from WCW. It's just a lot of things we're adding up to where this really has a chance to make it. And then when I thought about the weekly pay-per-views, of course, I'm open to it. I'm like, you know, it's never been done, but, you know,

that doesn't mean it can't work. You know, of course, as we, we'd later learn, you know, it's always better to have a TV deal. But yeah, there was just so many, and that's the thing. You know, a lot of people say that, you know, it was going to try to compete with WWB, and it was never about that. We just were there to be an alternate, you know, to be another option for somebody to watch, something different. And so it had to be different.

We were going to do not a traditional once a month pay-per-view. It was going to be a weekly pay-per-view at an affordable amount. So, yeah, I was very open to it, man. and just hungry and eager to be part of it. And, you know, of course, when I saw the guys that were going to be involved, the talent roster, it was like, you know, no matter what I want to be a part of this. Yeah, what a roster. You know, when you talk about it being an alternative,

I think one of the first things that comes to mind is AEW. There's been a lot of people comparing AEW now to what TNA was then. Do you see those same comparisons? Do you agree with it? There's a lot, especially when they first started. I was I was kind of looking for that because it did remind me of that. It's just a big difference that I see from the outside is, you know, they just have the money backers. You know, they have the money behind them, whereas TNA was being funded by, you know, I know a certain group of guys to do their own money in.

And then you have to go out and get investors. And so it was just, we were really struggling to really to get to make it. and when that happens, you know, you have to keep the budget down. AEW, it's almost like they have an unlimited budget. So, you know, if they can get a hold of a WWE talent, you know, they'll sign them. I mean, that's been a lot of the talk in the past year or so is that they keep taking all the WWE talent. And, you know, they can afford it with TNA, couldn't. I mean, you know, we had our select few that was helping us grow the company.

the credibility. But we really had to focus on building new talent. And that's really what we did. And we just mentioned it. You know, X Division, AJ Styles, you know, tag team America's most wanted. You know, so I mean, there was, we were building new stars. So, but very, there's a lot of similarities, yes. But I think the big difference is, of course, the funding.

Although when TNA signed Kurt Angle in 2006, there's, you know, that infamous promo of him going, ha, ha, ha, ha, the laughing. I was like, oh my God, if Kurt Angle is going to TNA, like, this is a real thing. That was huge, man. That was huge. And they did keep it quiet from everybody. So we did our know until they announced it? No, until I saw that video.

Yeah, we were doing our tapings in Orlando then at Universal Studios. And just a little side note. But if Storm and I were finished with what we had to do on the show, we would just, there was a back on the side of the hard camera, there was a scaffolding where they may put a camera on top or something like that, but it was a scaffold. And we found our own little pedestal about halfway up the scaffold,

and we could just climb up there and watch, you know, kind of watch the show from there. And we really enjoyed doing that. Anytime we either didn't have something to do or we were finished, we would watch. And so that particular night, I remember it might have been a pay-per-view. But Storm and I just kind of sat at our little perch up there and watched the show.

And I think they ended that show with that video package. And even Storm and I looked at each other like, holy shit. We got Kurt Angle, man. I mean, that's huge. For somebody like that who devote to TNA, I mean, that was a big win for us. And then, you know, a few years after that, you talk about big names coming in. Like, there were some really big ones. It was Sting and it was hoagged.

like legends. Yeah, even before Hogan came in, I mean, you know, Sting was probably one of the first ones. We had him back in our Nashville days. You know, Sting was part of it. You know, we had Christian and then, you know, Kurt. That was a big one. That was a, when Christian became Christian Cage and TNA,

that was a really big signer. Yeah. And I think we kind of opened a door for him to show what he could do in singles because he didn't have that opportunity before. And we saw, you know, he was an even big. or started what we thought. But yeah, just some of the names that were coming through, man. It was awesome for us.

And it just added to the credibility and the building of the company. And yeah, it just couldn't be happier when we get names like that. What would you say was the one match that really put AMW on the map? Oh, wow. In the early days, I would say, and a lot of people may not remember this, but what really put us on the map were matches with, the new church. It was a flash, which is Wolfie D and Brian Lee. And a lot of people don't remember them, but they had had the experience of being in bigger companies. And I think the way we became

brawlers with them, it wasn't just about wrestling. A lot of, a lot of the fans had seen that we could wrestle, but then it also kind of showed we could adapt to any style. And we, we had some, some big brawes with them. But I think that really helped put us on the map. And then what really took us over the edge was our matches with triple X. And that I know people remember because that started, you know, early on in the national days and just continued on into our tapings in Orlando. So our matches with them, I mean, I know we had like a best of five series.

You know, we've had two cage matches with them. So it was, I think that really put us over the top. Well, we have to talk about turning point 2004. The crazy thing is I think a lot of people don't remember who won that match, but they remember you taking the crazy walk the cage hurricane Rana from Elyx Skipper. Like, that's insane to watch back. It really is, and it's amazing people still talk about that to this day. Yeah, that was our second cage match.

So a lot of people don't even remember the first one. And, you know, we were out there to, you know, our first cage. match had got a lot of attention. But then when we were talking about doing the second one, you know, of course we would have to go out and we want to top the first one, which is almost, you know, it'd be incredible if we could do that. And yeah, Elix had this idea and I thought it was as completely absurd. I was like, there's no way.

Now, what a lot of people don't remember is Elix, part of his arsenal was to walk the top rope and do a Hurricane Rana off from that. Right, right on the ropes. on the ropes. Yeah. So it wasn't a complete out, out of the blue idea. He had done that in his matches previously. And so when he brought that up, I was like, man, that takes it to a whole different level.

I mean, that's, that's dangerous. And to be honest with you, a lot of people don't know this, but I told him no for most of the, it wasn't talked about until that day. And most of the day, I was telling him no. I was like, there's no way. I said, you know, I don't know if I want to take something like that. And it's certainly dangerous for him. And it came to be, it couldn't have been more than a few hours before the event.

And he came and tried it one more time. And I looked at it when I said, can you really do this? And I think what got me was his confidence. He said, yes, I can do this. And when I saw that he had nothing wavering, I said, said, okay, let's do it. I mean, you know, you have to, you have to take your chances, man. I mean, and a lot of people still think there's a lot of practice and a lot of, you know, going over everything. You know, there's what you can't. That's a one and done thing.

I mean, you don't, you don't practice that. Never walked through that move before. Oh, no. I'm trying to think if they even had a cage out that day. I mean, we may not have walked through anything. You know, we were in there with professionals and we were very confident in our ability, but definitely nothing with that. So, yeah, I told him, I said, okay, let's do it. And it just was kind of a switch. We just, we had our attitude towards, we're going to do it and we're going to make it. And I can remember if anybody looks back at that, they see he's kind of stumbling to get up there at first. He was doing to get his footing. And I'm over the, and on the other side with

Christopher Daniels and I noticed he was taking a while and already I'm looking at Chris. I was like, what's plan B because he ain't going to make it? And right about that time out of the corner of my eye, I looked over and he was already on me. So he, I mean, you saw once he got his footing, he was gone, man. And next thing you know, his legs around my head and here we go. So yeah. And he gets props for that and I'm glad he does, but a lot of people always forget. It was the one that actually took that bump.

And you took it like perfect. perfectly too. Yeah, it couldn't have been any better. I'm very fortunate with that because that's a long way down. It's a long landing. And what a lot of people don't remember is when that clip is over, if you watch the full match, you're laying there. Then Christopher Daniels drops an elbow on you like 20 seconds later. Yeah, I think I did something to my ribs when I landed. Like you said, it was a perfect landing. I couldn't have been any better. But I was kind of, you know, feeling around my ribs because I couldn't breathe. And before I knew it, yeah, I'm looking up. And I'm like, oh, my God, Chris Daniels is coming. And, yeah, I didn't have any time to really recover. I don't know what the hell I was thinking.

But, yeah, double whammy on that. Did you have any idea when you were planning out the match that that would be the moment that not only people would talk about with that match, but then people would talk about from that pay-per-view and then that year. And then now just in general, that's a TNA highlight forever. Yeah, no, I never knew that. I guess I never thought about it. You know, if it's executed, great, awesome. That's a high spot of the match.

But I never thought that it would get over to that effect. And yeah, I'd never imagine 20 years later still be, you know, still be talked about. But I guess, yeah, very, very cool. The bar was set really high. Like the X Division was pulling all kinds of stuff out. It was unbelievable. The fact that somehow you guys topped that is crazy. And Elix mostly wrestled in the X Division.

So that was another part of what I mentioned earlier is just developing or, yeah, developing other styles, be able to adapt to the other styles. You know, Elix, that's probably you would consider an X Division move. Well, that's his arsenal. That's what he's good at. So we have to be able to adapt to that. So if they can pull off moves like that, I'll be there to catch you or to land or, you know, whatever the case may be. But I'm very glad that Elix and I communicated about that and we were able to get it in there

because I'd say people still. One other thing that made that look so good is that camera angle was perfect because it was right behind Elix. You felt like he did and you did that you guys were up really, really high. And that camera following him along, I think made it so perfect. That was amazing. And that's something we didn't think about. You know, that was, I don't know if any other companies were using that.

We called it the crane cam. Yeah, and it's literally like a big, it's a jib, right? It's a big, it's on a giant arm. Yeah. And usually when you see guys perform something at the top of the cage, you're looking up at them. And you're like, oh, man, that must be high up there. Well, this gave you an angle of being up there and seeing, hell yeah, it's high. That's a lot higher than you think.

So yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. That was an awesome camera angle. But I think that that was one of the cool things about watching TNAs. There was like there was something different, right? The six-sided ring immediately made you go, oh, this is different. And then those camera angles also made you go, oh, wow, I've never seen that before. It just gave you a different feel. And I think that's a lot of the reason people, you know, we had our solid core group of followers.

And I really feel like they looked at. it is, you know, this is something different, something special. It was special to us, and I think it was special to the fans. So I think that that really helped us keep building. I feel like every great tag team, though, at some point, you know, has to break up. So, like, when did it start getting talked about with you guys? Wow. Be honest with you, it had been talked about in the first year.

Wow. Yeah, it's crazy to think about that now. But, you know, when you're when you're trying to build weekly episodic television. And when you got something, you got a good thing going, sometimes you have writers that are just looking to, this will be exciting if we do something with this. So there was talk after the first year of splitting us up. And there was talk a couple other times after that. And even though we were new there, once we felt like we had something special, we had something

really strong. We felt like we had to speak up and tell them, say, look, we really think we had got something. We can continue with this. And I think there's a lot of life left in America's most wanted. So they listened to us. I'm very thankful they did. So we wound up together for, gosh, I don't know, five years, maybe something like that, six years. But then when it was talk about it, you know, we had we had won the titles, I think six times. We had had had had had had a little heel run there, which was a lot of fun, you know, just adding to the flavor of America's Most Wanted. But when it was talk, I think Storm and I were ready to see what we could do on our singles. It's kind of like something you mentioned earlier, you know, when you focus more on your singles wrestling, you don't really want to be part of a tag team.

Well, you know, we did our tag team thing and we did it well. So now, you know, let's see, you know, let's see what happens when the team splits and we carry on our own. So I think that was the company's thought process. Let's see what these guys can do on their own, on their own. And of course, we knew, you know, the first step in that is to go out of each other. Right. I always found it so interesting that then later on, he becomes part of another tag team, another pretty successful tag team, your money.

Yeah. And a lot of people that asked me during that time, you're like, what do you think of beer money? Because I think they thought I would trash it. And I was the number one fan of beer money. I thought they were great. I loved Bobby Rood. I traveled with him, a good friend of mine.

So when Storming him hooked up, I think a lot for similar reasons, I don't think they had anything for either one of them at the time. So they put them together. Same thing. They wanted to make it work. But yeah, they become very successful. And it doesn't surprise me that, you know, Storm was part of that. I mean, he had done the tag team thing.

He knew what to do and what not to do. So, you know, he had a good. experience in that department. And yeah, beer money was, you know, and the thing is a lot of people have compared us to beer money. And I know a lot of fans nowadays are, you know, beer money gets the nod on that one. But I think a lot of that, and it brings me back to earlier, you know, just a matter of as the company was building, more fans were tuning in each and every week.

And so once America's Most Wanted was gone, you know, they were still increasing viewers. And so I just think more eyes were on beer money. So they saw that might have been their favorite. But yeah, I mean, more America's Most Wanted, the beer money, I don't feel like would have been nearly as popular. Maybe not. Yeah, you just never know. But yeah, they were, they were awesome. I love that team.

You mentioned earlier about, you know, growing up with the big two, it's WCW and WWE. So when you do go to WWE and you get to do some work for them, was it strange to you that you had already built this name for yourself in TNA? And then they basically wanted to wipe that clean. They gave you a new name. You were Braden Walker there. Yeah, it was unfortunate that they would do that, although I can't say I was surprised.

Going in there, they just, they want to erase your past. And it's what is unfortunate because, you know, you try so hard building up a reputation for yourself. Not that they would ever, you know, talk about TNA, but I, you don't want them to talk about you like you're a rookie either. So, yeah, going in there, I try to keep a positive attitude. You know, they're wildcats gone. And, you know, I'm going to be a whole new, whole new character. And they gave me the name.

And, you know, a lot of people trash the name they have for years. But truth is, I mean, it wasn't a surprise. You know, they give me the name. you know, if I was still able to be myself, I could take whatever name they want to throw at me. You know, I could have made Braden Walker work, had I just been given the opportunity. And they just, there was no preparation,

no thought behind it, nothing like that. So, yeah, I think I was just doing from the start. Yeah, how long in total were you, did you end up being there? It was close to a year. Not quite a year, but close to it. And, you know, just from the get go, uh, yeah, I just saw different things. I did like when you, when I first went, um, it was, you know, people were excited to see me. And, you know, they didn't want news getting out. And it just, they made it feel like it was a big deal,

you know, that, um, and we got all these plans for you and things like that. So it made me feel like, okay, maybe I, maybe I made the right decision. Um, but yes, within within weeks, it was, was, it was just, I was beginning to see that, you know, there was, there was no background to any of this. There was no thought process. And I was just going to be another one of the, the ones that are just thrown out there. And I was, I was, I was thrown out. There was no, no story behind it, no, no background on Brayden Walker or, you know, anything like that. And I had generic name, music, gear. I mean, just, everything was just there. And there was no reason for people to, to really get behind me.

I was just another guy out there. And like I said, I feel like I still felt like I could have made something work had they just let me go out and wrestle. That's something I knew how to do. Yeah. But they were even taking that away from me. I mean, like seconds and minutes before I would go out, I would have a producer trying to change my match.

And you can't do this. You can't do that. So once you do that, and I'm like, you're messing with me, man. Just let me go out and do. So, yeah, I mean, I couldn't even go out. and be myself in the ring. So, yeah, I just, it's very unfortunate, man. I felt like I could have made something work,

but just didn't feel like the opportunity was presented to me. Were you like, I immediately want to go back to TNA? Well, I knew I wanted to get out of WWE. You know, I knew TNA probably wouldn't take me back right away, but I was just, I was so unhappy. I um, I, it that, that kind of made me feel like, uh, that's when I had the realization that it doesn't matter how much money you're making. If you're, if you're miserable and, um, you know, going through, I mean, it started to weigh on the health and things like that. It's just not worth it.

And so, yeah, I, there was, there was weeks and months that I just, I wanted to get out of there. I just didn't even want to be a part of it. If something was to change, um, in the direction, then I, I'd be giving it, uh, my, uh, my, But nothing was changing. And so I would try to question guys like, you know, hey, what can I do? What is there anything I'm doing wrong? You know, just I would try to do my part in question. And I just got nowhere.

So, yeah, it got to the point where I was just miserable coming to work. I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about fake sting because it wasn't just in WCW. It was in DNA too. Yeah, man. It's still crazy. but some of the most exciting times in my life, being somebody else. I was one of the many in WCW that was doing the security,

but I did have some higher-ups that knew who I was. And I think I was picked back then just because of the look. I had the long hair, even though Sting's hair wasn't as long anymore, but I fit more of the Crow Sting. You know, and I got Sting's outfit. He's the one that painted my face up. I mean, it was crazy. I guess nobody can do it as well as him, right?

Right. I mean, they could have had, I guess, their makeup artists, you know, do it. But Sting was the one that did it. And even Sting looked at it as he's painting me. He said, this is so weird. It's like looking in the mirror because I guess he saw that crow sting with the hair. But yeah, that was very cool, man. And I think I'm most remembered for the Halloween havoc when I came out of the ring,

which I was probably the, the most fun being the sting because I actually had a part in that match. But there were many that they got clips of me just in the rafters where you couldn't really tell, you know, exactly who it was. There was times they had me in a coffin and I would bust out of the coffin and beat somebody up. But a lot of times they would get out of that because they would have the strobe flashing. So you couldn't, you didn't have a chance to really tell who exactly it was. So there were a lot of times I was doing the fake sting when, whether he was there or not,

you know, they would put me in. Like how many times in total do you think you were fake sting in WCW? Oh, wow. Less than 10. But more than six? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it could be just something small. Wow.

You know, maybe just a little background skit that we're doing. And Sting comes from the darkness and starts woping up on somebody, you know, just little things like that. But yeah, I was, and there were sometimes that you didn't have the chance to look so close to the face anyway because they didn't want to see it wasn't sting. But there were sometimes it was so hard to get a look that I just wore one of those masks that they would sell. So if it didn't require me having to get my face painted up, they weren't going to worry about it. I could just get away with the mask because my hair would be down in my face.

So there were a couple times where I just did that. I didn't have my face painted every time. But, yeah, that was so much fun. And then I think Jeff, Jared, remembered that from WCW when we did a couple of P&A deals. So, yeah, man, it was, it's crazy. It's great. And I guess in a way, that's kind of been my relationship with Sting. You know, he remembers me from doing all those, you know, if there's anybody out there doing a fake sting with me.

It's amazing that years later, yeah, you did it in TNA too. Yeah, man, that's crazy. But Jeff remembered how great it was. So that's why he wanted to use it again. Are you still wrestling these days? I try not to. Yeah, I'm just trying to get more away from that and more doing stuff behind the scenes. A lot of times I still take a lot of bookings for appearances or signings.

after the little clips that Storm and I have done on TV and on impact. A couple of years ago, we did one versus a thousand match. We got some extra bookings from that. And here this latest one when we came back and did a reuniting of America's Most Wanted. A lot of times we'll do situations where Storm will wrestle and I'll be in this corner. But, yeah, I mean, the truth is just a lot of things. injuries have piled up. I've had health, health concerns. I've had my head tested, so I got a lot of mixing up going on up there from concussions. So just the better option is to stay away from it.

I've had all my doctors tell me that I should never do it again. But, you know, one of my big things is you never stay retired in wrestling because you just never know. I mean, we, we spoke about Rick Flair off the air. You know, I mean, how many times he retired? You know, he swears this is the last one. And it probably is. I probably is. He's also 73, so.

At some point, the body just says no more. So, I mean, as we sit here right now, does anything on you, like, really hurt? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm in constant pain. So, yeah, my choice is to not do it. But we did do something very special with Impact just a few weeks ago, where we did AMW together again. And those are the things I'm talking about. Like I know my first conversation with them.

They were just feeling me out to see what I could and couldn't do. And I actually told them that I didn't feel like I could do a match. But I love to do something. You know, I feel like I can get physical if it's something small, but just not perform a match. well then the idea was brought up about a 10 man and when i thought of you know five on five you you can't you can't you can't really ask for anything better than that um so i i was like let's do it no it's just it's so hard to pass up that opportunity so um so yeah i jumped on it i felt like that was the best way i could be protected uh felt very comfortable with the guys i was working with

um so yeah you just you never say never in wrestling because you never know what's gonna what's around the corner. So this is why wrestlers never say or shouldn't say they're retired because an I agree that will come up. Yeah. So I do a lot of independent stuff now. I do a lot of things on the local circuit. I'm in the Cincinnati area.

And this is actually the Northern Wrestling Federation, the NWF is the promotion based out of Cincinnati. And that's where I got my start. Carl Anderson from the Good Brothers. He got his start here, Abyss got his start here. So a lot of credible guys that have come out of the gang girls have come out of this. And now that I'm here and I'm not on the road as much, I've really dove into that and helping develop younger stars.

And I help them with putting their matches together. I kind of act as, I mean, I don't even know if you'd call it a producer or coach being on an indie level. But I act as that with them. I help train a couple times a week. So I'm really involved with that. But anytime I have bookings elsewhere, man, I still love to get out there and meet the fans and still love to, you know,

get out there and just meet some of the newer talent out there because these are the guys that are going to keep wrestling going, you know, to continue what we love. I was living in Cincinnati, actually, before. I live in L.A. now, but I was living in Cincinnati right before I moved here. I didn't know that, man. I was there for like nine months. became very good friends with Brian Pilman Jr.

Because he lives in Northern Kentucky. Yeah. I was living in Northern Kentucky. I was in Cold Spring. And I got to tell you, Chris, I drank a lot of beers at Mad Tree Brewing. I'm actually on the Kentucky side myself. Oh, which city are you in? I'm in Ludlow, which is where I grew up.

Oh, yeah. So it's kind of like a full circle, like a Rocky story, kind of, you know, kind of full circle and wind up back where I started. So, yeah, pretty. cool. I've drank a lot of beer in my Kentucky town as well. So I think that that was like the thing to do, you know, whether the Bengals were playing or not. It was like, let's go to a brewery and grab a beer. My wife tells me that all the time. She goes, I do not see how you guys even survive. You know, both sides of my family are drinkers. You know, I was a drinker. But yeah, it's just it's the thing

to do around here. We can always find a reason to have a few beers. Well, I mean, it's hard to disagree with that, right? It doesn't matter what day. This has been so enjoyable. Again, I said it off the top, but I haven't metacrest that I don't like. And you know, you certainly haven't changed that. But thank you so much. Thank you for letting us catch up with you today. Oh, man, it's been a pleasure. You know, talking to you. It's just like talking to an old buddy, man. You make it fun. You make it real. So thank you so much, Chris. Oh, well, yes. Thank you, Chris. We'll have to grab a beer together in Northern Kentucky. but I end every conversation talking about gratitude because that's a big thing for me.

I wake up every day. I say out loud three things that I'm grateful for. And that's how I end every conversation. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Wow, man. I love that you brought that up. Since we're on the career thing, I have to say I'm grateful for my career. I feel like I've done.

done, everything that I set out to do. But I do tell people that, you know, I may not have done it at the WW level, but I proved that you can make a living out there without being in WWE, especially nowadays. So many companies, independent promotions are big right now. I'm just so fortunate and grateful that I was able to have the career I did. I was making a good living for at least 10 years. And, you know, sometimes guys, you know, they're not that lucky.

So I'm very grateful for that. I am very grateful for my family and friends. They have been so supportive in all of this and my, not only my career, but my life. So I have the best family, the best friends that you could, you can imagine. And the last thing I'm grateful for, which may surprise a few people, but this kind of throws off our plans, our future plans. But I recently got sober. So I guess we can't have that beer.

I'll drink the beer. You can drink some water. That was great. But congratulations. I'm thankful for my sobriety. I was always a normal drinker with the boys after the shows and things like that. and just it just started to become an issue as I got out of the business. It's just one of those things that's hard to deal with.

And it just kind of took control. So it was finally time and about nine months ago is when I put it down. And I'm very grateful for that because now I have a whole new world and the sobriety world. And I'm learning just that there is another life and you don't have to go down a really dark, evil period in your life to, you know, to that. So, very grateful. But thank you for bringing that stuff up, man. I think that's something everybody should really do, even on a daily basis like yourself. You know, be grateful for what you have. We just have so much, right? I think the people too often focus on the things they don't have rather than going, wow, I've got a lot of great stuff.

And I think when people hear people that are as successful as you going, I'm grateful for my friends or my family, they can go, well, I'm all so grateful for that too. Yeah. And I don't think, you know, one of the, one of the things I think is good to keeping the back of your mind is, you know, when you see somebody struggling or hurt or something, you know, you know, that should make you realize that, you know, man, you know, things really aren't that bad, you know, it could, could be a lot worse. And you just have to kind of keep that as you go through life. It's just, it can always be worse to be grateful for what you have yeah well congratulations on your sobriety that's a thank you man something you should thank you very much yeah yeah well again chris thank you for everything

this is this was awesome man this was awesome i really appreciate you having me on man and uh i hope we get to do it again sometime we'll do it in person sounds great but next time you're back in Cincinnati let's do it Oh, man, big thank you to Chris Harris for joining me. And of course, thank you for always being with us. What a great conversation. If you enjoyed this, snap a screenshot, show Chris Harris some love. Tag us both so we can share it on social media. On Instagram, he's at AMW Wildcat Chris Harris.

On Twitter, it's AMW Wildcat. I am at Chris Van Fleet. And Steve Jobs said it really well when he said, my favorite things in life don't cost any money. It's really clear that the most precious resource we have is our time. So true. Be great. Be grateful.

We'll see on the next one for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand.

He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.