Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chris Jericho On 6 Years Of AEW, "Please Retire" Chants, MJF, John Cena, Hall Of Fame

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Tickets are on sale now for INSIGHT LIVE in Toronto & Las Vegas with VIP Meet & Greet! Chris Jericho (@chrisjerichofozzy) is a professional wrestler currently signed with AEW. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his legendary professional wrestling career, how he feels about the state of professional wrestling in the modern era, being in the business for 35 years, his thoughts on the "Please retire" chants from the fans, why competition is good in wrestling, John Cena's year-long retirement tour and if he has thought about retirement, what he is most proud of since the start of AEW, the catchphrases that worked and those that didn't, the Dinner Debonair segment with MJF and how it was nearly changed at the last second and more! Quote I'm thinking about: "You only have one life, so you should live it as beautifully as you can." - Eddie Van Halen Please support our sponsors! PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insight33 to get 33% off your order of Mitopure while supplies last ORGAIN: For 30% off your order, head to https://Orgain.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT SQUARESPACE: Head to https://www.squarespace.com/INSIGHT to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain using code INSIGHT VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.com ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at https://bluechew.com RHONE: Rhone’s premium performance clothing is made to move you. Use code CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV MANSCAPED: Get 20% off plus free shipping when you use the code CHRISVAN at https://manscaped.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Oh, man, welcome back to another one here on Inside. I'm CVV. Chris Van Fleet, thank you for being with us on this episode. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Lay your phone down on the ground right now. And hit a lion's salt on that follow button on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening. If it is Spotify, drop a comment on there.

It's always so cool seeing the comments on Spotify. Oh, and do the same for Chris Jericho's podcast. Talk as Jericho. I was just a guest on there. That episode came out yesterday. So give that a listen in about an hour or so when this episode is done. We dive into my 20-year broadcasting career. How I even got started interviewing wrestlers.

The best interview I've ever had, the worst interview I've ever had, and everything in between. And I always love when I get the opportunity to sit down with Chris Jericho. So good to have him back on the show. This year marks Jericho's 35th year in pro wrestling. He's done it all. He's done it all and he's still going. We talk about the biggest changes that he's seen in the business compared to when he got into it in 1990. We look at his most memorable moments for better or worse.

There's some of them where he's like, maybe that wasn't my best work. The catchphrases that he's gotten over, I mean, think about it. Stupid idiot. You just made the list. Raw is Jericho. Drink it in, man. And we also talk about the ones that didn't get over. And I'm curious if you remember any of the ones he tried to get over that just didn't

really catch on. And we look back at the six years that AEW has been around. He's been there since the inception. And we take a look and dive into what he's been most proud of during that time. So snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this one. Let's know you listen to the other episode where I was on Talk of Jericho and tag us.

He's at Chris Jericho Fawsey on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here we go. Enjoy this one with the legend himself, Chris Jericho. Always good to see you. Yeah, man. Your new fancy pants studio. The new digs here, right?

I know, man. Just two Canadians hanging out. Yeah, no kidding, right? You have just gone through the roof with all of your amazing guests over the last little while. You see, you can get guests that I can't get at the time. Oh, because. Yeah. Because of the political way.

And it's like, it's so funny because Undertaker, who was like the quietest guy in wrestling is now like everywhere, doing everyone's show, having his own show. And I'm like, ah, I just missed them. It's funny because like he didn't break K-Fave for so long. And now he's like, I'm going to tell you. That's what I'm saying. What do you want to know? I will tell you all the skinny and all the dirt.

But yeah, congratulations to you. Oh, thank you so much. He wouldn't tell me how he shot the electricity from his arms. Magic. There's certain things, you know, certain things that the lowly humans just aren't allowed to know just yet. Yeah. Yeah. But a clip of you came up recently.

You and McGruber came up recently. Yeah. And every time I see that, it makes me laugh out loud. Yeah. The delivery of like, it's fun to say. them. It's funny hear them. That's why I say them. That's why I listen. That was all improv. That whole scene. Not the whole scene, but that whole part was all improv because when they asked us to do the movie, I was like, well, what's the script like? You know, I want to see it. And there was like a couple lines. I think it was the only guy in the, in the group of bounty hunters that McGrouber assembled that had a line. But, you know, typical Jericho, it's like, yeah, I want to have more lines. So Will Forte is a groundling. And I am, my an honorary groundling.

So I thought, well, if I just improv, either he's going to, yes, and me, the number one rule of improv, or he's going to say stick to the script kid, or the director will say it or whatever it may be, and I'll just go with it. So I did that. He responded like, we did, and the director loved it. He's like, let's do it. So we did a couple more takes, but that was all spontaneous because I just thought, well, let me just play with it and see what he does.

Man, that scene's just so fun. It really is. And that movie, as a matter of fact, it's pretty funny. Because I just did a show about the SNL for SNL 50 on the S&L movies. And I thought there was like 30 of them, but there's only 11 official ones. And McGruber is a lot of times voted the best of all of them behind Wayne's World and Blues Brothers. Or those three are kind of the top. And when that came out, I remember the director said, good stuff.

I remember the director said, this is not. not going to do well in the theaters, but it'll become a cult classic. And he was right. I think it did like $9 million in the box office. But since then, it has become a cult classic. As a matter of fact, they're doing a screening of it at the Alamo draft house in L.A., and it sold out like in five minutes. Oh, amazing.

So it's at that point now because it is just a ridiculously goofy, fun movie for sure. And I'm glad to be a part of it. With everything you've done in your career, there's people that maybe haven't watched a wrestling match. or maybe there's people that haven't listened to a Fossey song, or maybe there are people that haven't seen one of your movies. Right. If someone has just seen you from movies, what are the movies you get recognized for the most?

Well, McGruber's one. As a matter of fact, when I went to an SNL after party, a few years ago was on Halloween, and John Mayer came up to me dressed in a Stormtrooper outfit, and he started talking to me in like these kind of weird lines and weird gibberish and all this stuff. And I realized he was quoting, that scene from McGruber verbatim.

And it's his favorite movie of all time. Like, McGruber is, oh, yeah, I can just see the drama and the dichotomy between that and the, you know, the,

the Egyptians of the 18th century or like, it's like some really deep types of stuff he was talking about. So that's one. Obviously, terrifier is, is the big one, both of them, but especially three with the horrific death that my character had.

But yeah, I have had a lot. of kind of lower movies, like Shark Nato 3 was a big one for it. Whenever they do the marathons, oh, it's a shark needle 3. But I think Terrifier is the biggest one. Obviously, it was the number one movie in America. Yeah. Which is pretty cool to be able to say that.

I don't care if my scene was two minutes or, you know, 20 minutes. It still was to be a part of that with a pretty good, pretty good kill scene in it. So that's probably the one right now. And after you're, here's the thing with horror movies. Once you've made an appearance in a horror movie and have like a pretty cool scene, you can now do horror conventions, you know, for the next 30 years. So between that and then Darkmatch, the one that comes out January 31st, another horror movie, it's like I'm becoming a scream king.

Yeah. When you got Terrifier 3 after doing Terrifier 2, do you just get the script, flip right over to it? Where's my death scene in here? Well, I mean, it was very much a closed secret script. So what I got, you're looking at your two pages. There was basically the three or four pages of my scene. seen and that was it. So I didn't know where it was in the movie. I didn't know what happened

before it or afterwards, but they were really keeping it tight to make sure that, you know, none of the, none of the detailed plot points got out. So I didn't know anything about the movie until I saw it in the theater. It's a heck of a death. It's a hell of a death. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty cool. They, uh, back in the, in the, in the old days, they would do a mold of your face with like putty or whatever it was. Now they do it with with a digital kind of a wand. the same way they do action figures in wrestling. So they kind of took a scan of my face and then I get on set and there's this bust of my face screaming, but it's got skin tones and it really looks just like me.

So we do the scene and there's two of them. The faceless chick puts her hand in my mouth and Art the clown puts his hand here and there's blood coming out. Okay, it's cut. Then they put my rubber face and ripped the job. off the skin's stretching and it's like this looks just like me and I'm standing right off behind the camera watching this going like I'm right here guys like this is fucking terrible like talk about it's surreal to watch your own face get ripped apart but uh that's just the modern technology they made it look exactly like me with everything you're doing now it's wrestling and it's movies

and it's music and it's the business stuff including the podcast and the crews how do you you find time for anything else? Well, I mean, a lot of people ask me that. And I think the misconception is that I'm just working all the time. Well, I am working all the time, but not every day. You know, I have a lot of days off in between. And I know how to focus my time, you know, because when you do something that you really love and you really believe in, it's easy to find the time. I mean, you travel all around and do your shows. How do you travel that much? Well, because I have to. Same with me. Like, you know, all of these things that I do. You know, do the things that I really believe in.

And if it's something I don't believe in, I stop doing it. But it's also, we get to do this. Well, yeah, how lucky are we? Yeah, like I had a dream when I was a kid to be a wrestler and be in a band. Everyone knows that. And once you start succeeding at those things, both of them at a certain level, then you become dangerous because you can then do anything you want, at least try. And to me, as long as it's something that I believe in and I feel is something I can

really do well and do a good job with. then I'm all for it. And you can find the time for things that you love to do and want to do. And is it about shrinking down some of the other things then? Like is it a little bit less of this then so I can do more of this other thing? I think they go in cycles. You know, I mean, wrestling is kind of never ending.

So that's the one that always gets, you know, the most focus, at least on a weekly basis. And it's not like it used to be. I mean, gosh, before, you know, four days a week, you know, sometimes five. And now one day a week, sometimes two. it's not as crazy as it was. So that does lend itself to giving you more time. And another thing is too, like wrestling wise, you know,

you are there at the arena for a long time. And there's a lot of work to do, but there's always a couple hours of free time. And that's when I can do an episode of Talk is Jericho. For example, find somebody, you know, you want to do Talk of Jericho on Wednesday. Sure. Okay, I'll see it at 2.30 or whatever.

And you bang it out. And you get something done then. So all of that, you know, I learned a long time ago when you're sitting around, on the venue, like that, how many hours wasted? You know, I should have learned other languages or, you know, wrote a script or a screenplay. I did write a bunch of books in those arena stands before the show or worked on them. Yeah.

And, you know, the same thing with podcasting. So you just kind of utilize your time to where you can get a few things done in one day. And then, you know, on Thursday, I'm off. I got nothing going on today. And all that kind of really, like this past Christmas time, I had almost 14 days off. and it really was very refreshing. I didn't do anything. Like no really work-related stuff at all.

And that was really cool. So I take those times to give myself kind of a, you know, rejuvenation, energize myself and then move on. When you took a while off of wrestling, what was that, like mid-2000s? There's been a few times. Yeah, mid-2000 was the longest. How did that feel?

It was weird because it was two and a half years. And I was really burned out on what wrestling was, 2005. I've been doing for 15 years. You know, and then around that time, you know, we find out that we're having twins and, you know, suddenly, oh my gosh, like I need a job. So I did a lot of signings. I did a lot of different stuff.

I remember I was working for GTV, if you remember that channel. Like I remember what the name of the show was, not the daily show, something along those lines. And I was kind of picking up as many gigs as I could. VH1 was really big at the time. And so I was really hustling. But, you know, it was. It was weird because it's not like I really missed wrestling.

You know, it's like I really like pizza, but if you have too much pizza, you're done. You know, you, I'm going to get a large pizza. You have three pieces. And it's like, I'm full and you kind of push it away. And it really was full on wrestling, shall we say. You know, and I had no, I didn't really watch wrestling. I kind of followed along with, you know, reading the sheets or reading the internet, but I didn't watch anything.

And, you know, once again, kind of gave me a real. a new perspective. I studied acting. I was spending a lot of time in LA, you know, working on that process of it, doing the groundlings, like I said. So I wasn't wrestling per se, but I was really working on the skills that I feel made me the biggest I'd ever been at the time in 2008 when I returned. I mean, I returned at seven, but eight when suit and tie Jericho came out with the Sean Michael's feud and the big show pairing. The reason why those worked so well is because I had learned a lot about the process of acting and the process of living in the moment, which is basically what improv is.

And having both of those skills kind of really honed in, helped me a lot from that point forward. How do you feel about wrestling now? You've been doing it pretty much your whole life. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I mean, 34 years. And listen, like, I always laugh when people will say, like, do you still love it? Do you still, like, if I didn't love it, I wouldn't do it.

You know, I'm not doing it for money at this point. I mean, it's the creative fulfillment. There's a challenge. You know, contrary to popular beliefs, I don't demand to be on every show every week. It's like my boss books me for shows because of what I bring to the table and still enjoying it and still really working on how can we make things better and how can we do more storylines and what can I do this week that was different from last week. So, yeah, I do love wrestling still. especially now, I think probably from a financial standpoint, you know, as a business, I think wrestling is the biggest it's ever been, maybe not from a complete ratings standpoint.

But things have changed. What ratings don't mean as much as they used to, you know, and selling tickets and buildings don't mean as much as they used to because there's so much money in television alone. And that's never been that way before. It's just ridiculous amounts of money towards the companies now because of the popularity. because of the ratings that wrestling draws. But so many people hear that and go, but Chris,

what about the attitude error? There's no way this is bigger than the attitude era. You know, I mean, once again, like if you're talking with the attitude era, which is 25 years ago, let's say,

yeah, kind of gauging, is the word I guess I'm looking for, on how people watched was different. You know, you really watched the numbers on each show, and that's when you had like eight million people watching at certain times. You had to.

You had to. Yeah, you had to. online and watch it after. Right. You couldn't really go on YouTube as the early days of that. So you had to buy a ticket to go to the show. No one's filming it with their cameras and putting up, you know, you could do the same match around the whole horn.

And unless somebody went to both the Detroit and Chicago shows, in which case, God bless you, man, you're a true fan. But listen, if I go to two kiss concerts in Detroit and Chicago, the set list, the same both nights as well. So I never had a problem with it. It's the same match. It doesn't matter. It's going to get a reaction.

People are going to enjoy it. Things changed over the years. So like you said, you had to go to the show. Or you had to watch on TV. Or you had to watch it on TV. And it was, you know, so maybe from a overall popularity standpoint, the attitude era was bigger. But you weren't making the money that you are now as both as a wrestler and as a wrestling company. I know that because I was a wrestler in 2000 and I'm a wrestler in 2025.

And I know the difference in salaries of what a top guy made then because I was one. So what the top guy is making now, because I am one. This year actually achieve your New Year's resolutions. This is your year to feel your best, regain your energy, and conquer your goals. No matter what your goals are for 2025, this supplement can help because it supports your health at the foundation by encouraging cellular renewal.

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Difference in what? Just in how is, what's the biggest difference in wrestling in the 90s versus wrestling now in 2025? In the ring or just as a business. How about in the ring? It's interesting. In a lot of ways, fans' perceptions of what a good match is is a little different than it was. I think a lot of people think a good match, the proverbial banger is your, you know,

you know, five-star, you know, Madison Square Garden, Tokyo Dome, main event, type of a thing. And that's great. But wrestling is still about reactions and about stories and about good guys and bad guys. So I think, I know, 25 years ago, you could do a lot less and have people think it's an amazing match. to whereas now you can do the exact same thing, have the crowd react exactly the way they did, but kind of your critics and pundits will say, well, it was a terrible match.

And there's a lot more opinions now because of social media and a lot more stock put in those opinions. So you're having people that watch the show as a fan, and maybe they watch every show, and that's amazing. But their opinions still, I mean, even though it's important, it's not law. You know, it's not written from the heavens. And a lot of people entertain that.

To me, I still look at it as what does the crowd in the arena do? What kind of a rating did you draw? And not worry so much about critics because that's fine. Critics are always critics. You know, the Beatles were hated when they were, you know, a band by the time 67 ran around. So, I mean, you take it all with a lot. grant of salt. I just think now everybody has so much more access and has so much more of a say. And a lot of people read that and take that say as gospel and it's really not.

Do you read that? Do you pay attention to that? I go through phases. I'm not that guy. I'll never read the internet. Of course I do. And you know, you have to have a really thick skin to read the internet because people are really mean. You know, they're very mean and they're very angry, you know. And if you don't have, I used to say like if you're going to read the comments, Then you have to take when people say you're the greatest rest of that ever lived with as much of a grain of salt as people say, fuck off and die and never be on TV again, go away. Both are very extreme opinions one way or the other, but both really don't mean a lot, you know. So, yeah, I don't read them as much, especially Twitter. I'm done with Twitter. I will never, there's no reason for me to be on that anymore.

You don't even go on that? I don't go on there. It's just so negative. And it was just like, why waste your time on it? I mean, there has to be some positivity somewhere, you know. So yeah, I do read, but not as much as I did. And I definitely don't put stock in it as much as I used to maybe 15 years ago or 10 years ago or something. It's almost like you have a bigger target on your back because you're such a well-known name. Yeah. Right. And people have known you from WCW and from WWE and now from AEW. So when you pop up on their TVs, it's like, all right, well, let's find something we don't like about them. Yeah, it's funny how I've become kind of public enemy number one as a heel, by the way.

Isn't that kind of the idea? Are you supposed to be public enemy number one as a heel? Are you supposed to not like somebody's character when that character is a heel? So maybe I'm actually smarter than everyone. I'm manipulating people to what I want them to do. Well, fuck off. Just retire already. And it's like, okay, isn't that make you mad?

Because what I look at is the ratings and nine times out of 10, my segments always go. up and there's still some of the biggest ones on the show. So that tells me that whatever it is that I'm doing is working. But I do have a target on my back for that. And that's once again, I mean, it's kind of the idea. You know, it's like I am a bad guy on the show. So yeah, I mean, it's public opinion and it goes in cycles, you know. And when you've been in the business as long as I have, especially at the top level.

That makes people mad, you know. And a lot of people are like, you know, I always love the concept of the Jericho vortex and how anybody that works with me gets dragged down. Name one. Name one person that got dragged down from working with me. Maybe afterwards they didn't go higher. But that's not my, that's not up to me. I'm not in charge of booking the entire company.

All I can do is influence with the storylines that I work on. But everybody that I can think of that worked with me certainly went to. a higher level from, you know, I did a year with MJF and look where he's at to Danny Garcia, to Sammy Guevara, to, I mean, you know, Daddy Magic last week comes off a commentary and gets a big pop. Who do you think, you know, put him in that position, you know, all of those guys. I mean, I think Big Bill and Brian Keith have grown by leaps and bounds from working here, work with him, you know. So, like, I'm not going to go through the entire cast of characters, but I definitely know what my intentions are. And it's not.

to bury anybody. It's to build as many people as I can and give them experience so they can learn how to start shouldering things on their own. Are you at the point now where you're choosing your opponents? I mean, I don't choose anything. My boss, I might have a suggestion, but most of the time it's Tony coming up with who he wants me to work with. I know, for example, with Mark Briscoe, both of us wanted to work with each other and knew we could have some great matches. And I loved working with Mark and what a great kind of, you know, a mini feud maybe, or I guess it was a feud. It was a couple months long. So that was something that we both wanted to do and suggested to Tony.

But most of the time, I mean, this whole thing that started working with rated FTR, that was Tony's idea. You know, so, so, yeah, I mean, I still work for my boss. And I have never once, as far as I can remember in the six years I've been in AW, ever said no. to something. I might not like something, but I got to try and do my best to make it work or maybe come up with something that that maybe is a better idea as long as the boss likes it. If the boss wants to do what he wants to do, then that's my job. That's what we do. If you're out there and you're making the best of whatever situation it is and you're getting met with chance of please retire, how does it make you feel? You know, I mean, it's one of those things where it's like when they

were really at their peak, I, of course, I'm always thinking, okay, I can make a T-shirt. out of that. I can make a whole angle out of this. But it kind of went away. You know, they kind of stopped. Plus, I was really good at being able to shut people down. Like, I know, like for, I don't know, for, give me a city in New York, you know, please retire, take the mic and say, I know why you want me to retire because, you know, you want me to go play, you want me to go pitch for the New York Yankees so they could

possibly win a World Series, but that's not going to happen. And then they stop, you know, it's something that Seinfeld said years ago, and any great stand-up comedian, I've got the mic. you can't heckle somebody when the guy has the louder voice. So, yeah, the please retire was a good one. That was fun. But once again, do you take it personally?

No, I don't take a person. Nobody really knows me that says that stuff. And probably if I saw them on the street, like they'd probably say hi. You know, like whenever I do, you know,

a convention or something like that, like when my lines are down the street, you know, and that's not from a statistical standpoint, but I've been doing this a long time. And a lot of people have great memories from the different eras that I've been in. You know, it's like I'm, I'm the, I'm the Rolling Stones on the Steel Wheels Tour. When all the critics are saying it's the Steel Wheelchairs Tour, Stones need to retire, they're done.

Well, Mick was 47 years old, and that was 1989. I saw it four times last summer at 81 years old, and they're still one of the best bands in the business. So if I'm in kind of my Steel Wheels Rolling Stones period, I told you this the last time I was on. If I died tomorrow or tonight, there would be a huge like, oh my gosh, boy. But right now, it's not that way. And that's, that's okay. This is, this is a job where the idea is to elicit emotions, positive, negative, anything in between. And when you sign up for it, you have to understand that people are going to respond.

Now, all of us wish that you could just walk down the street and have people throw a parade for you at all times and throw confetti. and will their firstborn sons to you. It's not that way, especially now. I mean, society is kind of gone the way that they did when I first got to WCW where they hated all the baby faces just because you were a baby face. Hated, hated, you know, a young Chris Jericho because they love the NWO. Yeah. So this blonde-haired good-looking guy who was like throwing himself in the crowd because he had

nothing to do was getting booed out of the building. And now I'm getting booed out of the building. or getting chanted at as a bad guy, isn't that the point? Please tell me if I'm wrong, you know? So does this mean you're going to wrestle to your 81 like Mick? I mean. Mick Jagger.

Yeah, yeah. I don't think that, and that's another thing too. Like if I felt that my stuff was bad, if I did, because I'm the only one that's a judge. And I'm really hard on myself, really critical on myself,

more than probably most. Then I wouldn't do it. But when I can go out, and still have really good to great matches and really good to great promos and really good to great ideas and storylines. If some people don't like it, that's okay. But I still think that it's good.

And I kind of, like I said, judge myself according to what's going on on other parts of the show, on other shows. So then it's time to go. You know, I think I will not be wrestling at 81 years old. I do not want to be wrestling in 81 years old. I might not want to wrestle tomorrow. But right now I enjoy it.

I enjoy the, influence that I've had on AW and the influence that AW's had on me and really happy to continue to see the company grow and do the best I can to make people, uh, entertained. There's just a lot of wrestlers that don't get to go out on their own terms, right? It's a bad injury or it's something that career ending. Right. Do you want to get to a point where you can call your last match? All right.

This is going to be it. Like John Cena is doing the retirement tour right now. Yeah. And it's weird for me. Like, I don't know if I want that much pomp and circumstance. And obviously, I'm not sure if that's John's idea or if it's the company's idea. You know, the big retirement match, like, that's a lot of pressure. You know, you put a lot of pressure on yourself.

Like, Sting with his last one. It was so good. But imagine if it wasn't. Yeah. Or imagine if he got injured a week before. Yeah. Or imagine like Flair and Sean. That was a great match.

But then Flair was like, I got to want to come back. So it's like a rock and roll band. Like, why put that sort of stamp on it? This is the retirement tour. and then you decide to come back. Or you decide that you don't want to come back and it's not the official retirement tour. So to me, I just kind of go with the flow and see where I am. But, you know, once again, I do not have the ego that would demand an official retirement tour or retirement match.

But if it's something that I found to be interesting that I thought would be good and fun and cool, which is the same way I judge everything, then maybe I would do it. So it could just be you wrestle. and that could be your last match? I've always liked that sort of thing. I like being the opposite of what people expect. Like I love the, like, Chris, you can know the Hall of Fame. Like, I like the Sex Pistols who sent a letter saying,

we don't want to be in the Hall of Fame and we deny the nomination. Or Axel Rose who refused to show up. Don't mention my name. Like, that's so much more punk rock and rock and roll. You know, not to say that the Hall of Fame isn't cool, but it seems to be a lot more cool to do something. completely opposite of what's expected. Come on.

You're going to go in the Hall of Fame at some point. I mean, in my mind, I'm already in the Hall of Fame. It's like, what do I need the plaque for? That's a nice little ceremony. I guess. Nice little ring. But is it, is it a nice little ceremony? Like, you know, it's almost like I wish sometimes that the guys could actually, you know,

talk a little longer. Like, I remember Austin's Hall of Fame. And Steve's such a great storyteller. I'm like, how do you encapsulate a 30-year career into a five to eight-minute speech, you know? It's the same with the Rock and Hall of Fame. Like, I watched the Rock and Hall of Fame. And it's cool because even if the speech isn't long, you'll have like this really cool jam. Like Ozzie, for example, this year, he had a really short speech and he can't play right now,

but he had this, like, amazing All-Star cast doing, like, you know, the greatest hits of Ozzie. And that's really fun and cool. in wrestling you don't have that the guy just does a speech in five minutes and then you usher them off and they go to the next guy and it's just like i don't know man like i've always kind of looked at it bigger and broader than that like maybe i'll have my own chris jericho hall of fame and put myself in it and it that is the most chris jericho thing to say right i mean why not right what's the thing you've been most proud of in a i i mean you know 185 million dollars a year for our new television contract for a company that's barely six years old,

that doesn't happen. I mean, I can't think of another company in any, you know, any genre that was able to get those types of numbers from a contract. So just to see how much we've been able to grow it. I mean, you know,

all the, you know, all the odds were against us. When we started, you know, oh, no one's going to want to watch it. And then they did. And then, well, no one's going to pay for it.

And then they did. as far as the contract, then the pandemic comes. Well, this will kill them off now, but it didn't. I think our non-crowd shows were probably the best out of all of them. And then we come back and then there's this,

there's that. There's all these different ups and downs and trials and tribulations, but that's what a corporation goes through, especially when you first start, you know, so I'm really proud of how much we've grown. We've got a lot more growing to do

and a lot of growing pains. that's the biggest thing. Like, company became massive, very fast. You know, a year and a half ago, 80,000 tickets sold at Wembley Stadium. That's a record, like for our company, five years in or four and a half years in. Like, think about those types of things

of the leaps and bounds we've taken. And I'm very, very proud of that, I think, because I don't think anybody expected it. And they still don't expect it. Even when the television deal comes in, people still deny it and still, and that's okay. I can't worry about the people

that hate AW. And I can't worry about the people that hate Chris Jericho because there's nothing that we can say or do and nothing that I can say and do this is going to change their minds. So I just worry about the people that do like me and do like the company and the new fans that want to check it out and see if they like it. Wrestling is going through this boom like we talked about. You have to give credit to AEW. You have to give credit to the fact that there's competition now for the first time in almost

20 years. And it also, you know, for you guys, you have another option of where you want to go. Yeah, I mean, it's a great story. So in the early 70s, Bobby Hall, who was the number one player in the NHL, left to go to the WHA, which was a upstart league that paid him $1 million to join their league, which was a phenomenal amount at the time. Sure. What happened was all of the players in the NHL got a huge raise to stay because they didn't want to lose anybody else to W. And I know this because my dad was one of them. Ted Irvin went from 35 grand a year to 100 grand a year just because of Bobby Hall and the WHA.

So ipso facto, Chris Jericho is the Bobby Hall of wrestling because the moment I left to go to AW, suddenly the entire salary structure changed. For years working in WWE, ask anybody next time you talk to your buddy the undertaker. Vince's magic number was a million dollars a year. Nobody gets more than that guaranteed. You might make more if you're working on top and with the pay-per-view bonuses and all that sort of stuff. Merch and everything like that.

But the number on the paper that was the max was a million dollars a year. Now, opening match guys are getting a million dollars a year. And top guys are getting $30, $40 million a year. I mean, I mean, I'd be surprised. What? I am surprised. Yes. Not all of them, but a few.

You know, 15 million, 20 million. So that's never, I don't think that ever would have happened had there not been A.W to scare the W. The W. Cognoscenti into paying people more. So that's good for all of us. It's good for the guys. And once again, with all this money that that's being made from the television companies, the companies can afford it.

So it's just good for everyone, good for the fans that have an alternative. And, you know, if you're running a race and someone's right behind you, breathing down your neck, you run faster. If you're ahead by 10 links, you run slower. That's just the way it goes. So it's always good to have high level competition. What about for you personally,

over this last six years in AEW? What are you most proud of? I mean, just the stuff that we've created. I mean, I was thinking the other day about the factions, the inner circle, and then the Jericho Appreciation Society, and then the Learning Tree. I guess that's our name,

Ipsop facto name now. I just really like how we were able to all, all fit in together in completely different ways. Like the original inner circle, and these are not handpicked guys. They're guys that combination that Tony wanted me to use and guys that were available. I think in the inner circle,

Hager and Sammy, I think I picked, and then Tony wanted Ortiz and Santana. And I remember the first photo shoot we did, It just looked like fucking Guns and Roses' appetite for destruction era. Like every guy in this shot looks different. Yeah. But it looks really cool. There's like five different entities, but I like the way it looked.

And then I think we just jelled so well. And this is pandemic era. I mean, you're talking about, you know, the stadium stampede's and that sort of stuff. Like, it was really good. And there's a lot of comedy involved. We had really good chemistry as guys. And then everything runs, runs his course, you know. And then we went the natural progression.

when Eddie Kingston got involved, and then Santana Ortiz kind of turned, and then we went for the Jericho Appreciation Society, which was Tony wanting me to do something with, with, with, with 2.0 and Danny Garcia, I knew, I knew nothing about these guys, nothing. Like, who? Kevin Owens asked me if 2.0 could be on Talk to Jericho, and I was like, well, who are they? A couple of my friends from Montreal and their NXT. I'm like, gosh, they drove down from Orlando to my house. And shortly after that, they got, they got, got hired. And Tony wanted me to do something with him and Danny Garcia as well.

And I was like, I don't even know who these guys are. But I remember, it's like, okay, the first thing I said at 2.0 was like, you guys need to change your names. Matt Lee and Jeff Parker, like those are the most jobber of jobber names I've ever heard. What else you got? And that's when we went through things. And that's where we're daddy magic and where Cool Handanghange came from. And then I was like, okay, who's your friend?

favorite musical artist and they all told me who they were. And I said, okay, pretend that we're going to a party. And it's on the top floor of a very expensive hotel. And you can wear whatever you want to this party. I don't care if you show up naked. You can wear whatever you want, but you got to wear something that you think is cool. Whatever that would be, that's what I want you to wear for our next promo. And everybody showed up wearing something cool. You know, and that was really a great time. And then Tony wanted Sammy back in and then brought Anna and tie in there. And And now I feel like we're the stones. Like we've got the girl backup singers and we've got like this big band of like eight of us.

And that was really cool. Like we had so much fun. We killed it at PWG just down the road and had all the matching outfits and did the spin and turn and that sort of thing. It was much more of a show business thing, sports entertainment. And that had a great breakup too. And then now with the Learning Tree, it's like with Big Bill. Like what a great suggestion that was to work with him.

And then once again, it was it was Brian Danison's suggestion for Big Bill and Tony's suggestion for Brian Keith didn't even know Brian Keith. Same thing as Danny Garcia. Same thing as Sammy Guevara. Don't know this guy. I know nothing about it. All right. And I think now we're just like, man, it's really, really cool to work with those guys as well

because they're coming into their own. Brian Keith is just hilarious with everything he says. Bill has really embraced kind of this wise man following the guru of the learning tree. But just a killer. And people are chanting his name, you know, nightly. and that's something that we've noticed as well. So it's just been really cool to kind of work with all these different people and they're all getting more TV time and learning and working with major players.

How was that a bad thing in any way, shape, or form? Didn't you do the learning tree just kind of as a slap in the face to the critics who were making fun of that? Yeah, basically the police retire crowd. Yeah. Okay, well, I'll just embrace everything they say that I am. I'm a selfish bastard who has to be on every show, who needs more TV time, and who's just going to bury everybody

because that don't work for me, brother. And that's why I kind of came up with the, like the Mr. Rogers voice, because I'm talking to people that are idiots. Like, okay, guys, hi guys, here's what we're going to do today because you know everything and I know nothing. And that got under people's skins

and people with this learning tree sucks. We hate it. That's the idea. Bingo! It's almost like we're in this era of wrestling now where like the fans think they know so much, right? So like, no, we're booing you because we don't.

like you. And you're like, exactly. No, no, no, but we don't like you in a good way. We don't, we like you. We don't like you in a bad way. I mean, that's the thing. And wrestling's always been that way. It's about, it's about, you know, manipulation. It's about getting the crowd to do what you want them to do. It's always, that's what show business is. You know, it's the same thing if you're the lead singer of a rock and roll band, or if you're a comedian, or if you're a Shakespearean actor, you want the reaction of the audience and the reaction of the crowd. So, and you got to go with the flow. If you're expecting this and people are booing the hell out of you, then you go into that world and that they start cheering you, then you go into that world. I mean, that's the beauty of

wrestling is you can go to whatever side of the story that these. I would say the story needs to lead you. You can't lead the story. Come on story. You know, I'm dragging it behind me going where I want to go. The story might, it's like you walk in your dog. The dog doesn't want to walk. You could drag that guy And it's just not working. But if the dog's excited and he's leading you and he's going into this bush and he's walking down this path, it's like that's kind of the story. You have to let it lead you and understand where it's taking you and how do how to make the most of it, you know?

And I think that's still what wrestling is all about. It's still such a character-based story-driven business. And great matches have always been important. They always have. We name your favorite great matches when you were a kid. but the reason why they were great matches is because there was a crazy killer story behind it as well. Yeah.

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I thought that would be a great catchphrase. Razzle dazzle. When did you try Razzle Dazzle? Very smart to know when it's not working. So maybe I don't remember the exact year, but once or twice I tried it and did not get the reaction that I thought. That's a hockey phrase, isn't it? A little razzle dazzle.

I guess. I'm thinking, I can remember Sammy Davis Jr. Or something like Razzle Dazzle. Like it's, I don't know, like a show business time. Hey, that was one. The other one that I thought would be good was, get it got it good where I would say get it and the crowd would say got it

and I would say good get it good didn't turn out the way that I thought that it would I can't remember anybody even biting on it in the very least and then in AW was go go fuck yourself GFY GFY GFY GFY GFY GFY GFY Kana not really work in anyways

and then Moxley came out when he returned after being gone for a while crowds were yelling at him he said go fuck yourself and I was like well that kills my catchphrase. I'm insinuating it and he actually said it. So that one's done. What was the one that surprised you the most that you're like, I can't believe that's a thing now? You just made the list is, is one that to this day, people still talk about. And you never know what's going to get over and what's not, you know, but to see that one, whereas to this day, people still

You put it on the list? And you just made the list or is it on the list? Yeah, you just don't know what's going to work. It's just like being in a band. You don't know what song is going to be a hit song and what song is not. And you can put all your faith into this and it just doesn't work. And then you put all your faith or put no faith into that, you start seeing the signs in the crowd and realizing that people are popping in all these things. And it's like, wow, you know, you really got something special here.

Same with the high guys. It's like I stopped doing it because it was getting a baby face. reaction. So, but that's something you think and you put it in your cap and you go from her. Like, people just like to be involved in the show, you know. But it's not just putting someone on the list. It's the way you'd say it. Well, of course. It's the pomp and circumstance behind it. It's like, you know, Chris Rock material on the printed page, not that funny. Chris Rock's delivery is hilarious. You know, a lot of, a lot of comedians are like that. You know, it's how they deliver. I would say, I would even say most comedians, Seinfeld.

like what's the deal with airline peanuts? You know, it's the way he delivers it. You know, I don't even know if he's ever used that line. What's the deal with corn nuts? Yeah, exactly, right? So when you think of it that way with the delivery behind it, that's when it really comes to life. And the secret of the list as well was,

I think the very first time I put someone in list, I believe it was Xavier Woods. Or maybe it was all of the new day. But I remember saying to him, like, when I put you on this list, You got to sell it. Like, it's the worst thing that's ever happened. Because if you don't, then it's just like, whatever.

It's like, ooh, the old end of the old thing. If you're like, no, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. You just made the list. Oh, man, I can't believe I made the list. They sold it that way and then suddenly it gets over. And that's, I mean, that's the secret of wrestling. I said people just like to be involved, like to be entertained. And people probably one of the reasons why they don't like me a lot is because I do appreciate

the humor element of rustling. I've always appreciated it. I still say this. I'm not making a joke. One of my favorite moments in pro wrestling history is Vince McMahon singing Standback on the Slammy Awards, 1987. Because it's so ridiculous

and it's preposterous that he's coming out and singing, playing it straight, like acting like he's freaking, you know, Tom Jones. But the best part is the band are all wrestlers. Isn't Hogan on a base? But Hogan actually plays bass.

But you've got the killer bees and junkyard dog as the horn section over here. And Randy Savage is on trombone with Brutus Beefcake on the saxophone over here. It reminded me of Happy Days, which was a huge show for me

when I was a kid, or the Happy Days gang would always go to Arnold's and play music. Of course they can all play. Of course Richie can play guitar and Ralphs on keyboards and Potsies on drums.

Like, of course. Every cool gang can do everything. And I just love that standback and the fact that all the wrestlers were in a band together, even though I knew they weren't in a band, but it's like,

yeah, they could probably be in a band. I love that part of wrestling. And we still use that. I mean, people hated, critics hated the dinner debonair that MJF and I did. It won an award with like the New York post of one of the most entertaining segments

of the year or whatever the hell it was. Why did people hate it? Because people just, I don't know. Because it was different? Because it was different because it was comedy. I don't think people realize. that was both of you guys singing. Yeah, really singing.

Like that MJF can sing. Obviously, you can sing. Yeah, so anytime we do that sort of like the New York minute, the King of New York stuff, I love that. It was so much fun. Like, if you're from New York, I'm just spouting out all these facts that are obviously wrong. You know, take the Staten Island Ferry to the Meat Packing District.

I had Paul Stanley going, you know, you can't get to the meatpacking district for the Statenown Affirist. That's the idea, Paul. Like, I'm the King of New York. But if you don't know New York, it's still this idiot that's obviously not from New York wearing this New York stuff. I'm sure a lot of people saw, and went, this is terrible.

Turn the channel. That's still part of wrestling. It's always going to have that element to it. I don't care how far it goes to, you know, the Tokyo Dome main event five-star match. That's super important too. But wrestling is still entertainment, you know? Well, wrestling can be all kinds of different things, right,

to all kinds of different people. Yes, it's all things to all people. And I don't know why people can't realize that it's a buffet. It always has been. It's the modern day version of a variety show. Like you go on Instagram, you'll see like all of these shows in the 70s, the Share Hour, the Paul Lind show, the Donnie and Marie show. Like everybody had the Brady Bunch hour.

They all had variety shows in the 70s. And Cher would like do a dance routine with the Jackson 5. And then she'd do a couple skits with somebody. And then she'd do like, you know, the studio audience thing. Like it was just talented people entertaining you. That's what wrestling is now. It's the modern day variety show, and a lot of people are hesitant towards that. But I always wonder how much of a percentage are there of people that don't like them.

Yeah, is it just like a loud minority? I think so. I really do think that. And once again, everyone's opinions are valid. I'm not mocking anybody. Like if you don't like something about wrestling or something about me, like Lord knows you're going to say it, I just don't have to listen to it or agree with it, you know? Where did the original idea for the dinner debonair come from?

So when we had the idea to do some stuff together, Max and I, which ended up being 366 days, that's how long that program was from the first moment to the last moment. Wow. Which I take great pride in. It was a great year. We did a lot of killer stuff. I think at one point, I think Max had just seen the Elton John movie. He wanted to do some kind of fantasy sequence to maybe his tiny dancer. And I was like, well, let me see what we can get.

It's like, well, you can't get. Because I was like, I don't know if I want to do tiny dancer. I'm not sure. Somehow, we came up with the idea of doing, you know, the, the, you know, wacky singing duo. And somehow me and my shadow was involved. Like, I don't know whose idea that was, but we could get that. We could get that song. So that's when we're, and then Tony was like, I don't want a fantasy sequence.

Just make it a real sequence. So we're like, okay. And I think it was just, you know, we can both sing and dance. let's do something stand backish, shall we say. And once, you know, we film that, like, this is another thing about pandemic era AW. We filmed all that stuff in hours, which would take weeks if you were doing it on Hollywood set. Yeah.

You know, and I think the dinner debonair took us five hours to film with all the dance routine and in choreography and all that sort of stuff, learning the choreography and creating the choreography on the spot, you know, all of that stuff. And the crazy thing was we did that and we used me and my shadow. And about two hours before we went to air, we got a call that you can't use this version of me and my shadow. And it's like, why?

We got the rights to it. The publishers for some reason had a problem with this one version. Maybe they didn't like the drummer or the oboe player on the track, whatever it was. If you use this track, we will sue you. Two hours before, call this guy Mikey Ruckus, who's a music guy for AW. Can you do this like in an hour? He does it. Then he has to match the music to the finished dance.

Then you have to download, you have to load the video into the truck, which means you can't just take it and put it on. It has to be loaded into the system, which takes time. we literally had that thing loaded and ready, literally 15 minutes before it aired, to the point where Tony was like, you guys are going to have to do this live. Live in Jacksonville, in Daly's Place in the Ring. How?

There's no dancers, there's no nothing. So that's how sometimes how close things are to being disastrous. Was there a moment when you were filming it where you turned to Max or he turned to you and you just went, what are we doing this is crazy all of it because once again like to me i love that that that part of wrestling and i knew it would work because he's got a similar mentality as i do and once again like we can both sing and dance let's do it like why not and that's kind of how it was for all that stuff we did when we did inner circle goes to las Vegas when we did both stadium stampedes we're just flying

by the seat of our pants filming it as quickly as we can editing as quickly as we can because we've got no other content. There's nothing going on in the world. There's an empty arena and there's an empty stadium right next door. Let's do a match in the stadium. What are we going to do in there? I don't know. Walk into an empty stadium, an expansive, massive,

empty stadium where there's nothing in it. You're like, what are we going to do? How are we going to do this? Well, you just sit down and start thinking, well, maybe we'll go over here and you guys go over there and what's in there? There's a bar. You guys fight in the bar? Oh, there's a pool.

once you guys fight in the pool, goalposts, someone want to jump off that? Oh, Matt Jackson wants to jump off the goalpost. Okay, what else do we got? Oh, there's a bunch of football stuff. Can we get the mascot? Can you throw some footballs at me? And that's how you kind of start piecing it together to where we created some really great cinema, some really great moments on those stadium stampedes and the dinner debonaires

and all that stuff. Is the biggest difference from what you're saying here between AEW and your time in WWE is just the freedom to do that kind of stuff. We had that freedom in WWE as well. I mean, once again, you work for somebody, you know, so you always have to get it approved. I mean, think of the festival of friendship. I mean, all the stuff that we did in WWE, I mean, that festival friendships, I wanted to just wanted it to start like a Dave of the Roth video from the 80s and then with the Red Wedding from Game of Thrones. And that's what we got.

Like, so there's always been that element to it. You know, I remember a time when Christian and I. I got our clothes stolen by the Dudleys on Raw and spent the rest of the episode trying to find our clothes. That's that's W.B. Raw. Like, really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, all of that stuff. I remember another time when I was in the ring, it was Stephanie McMahon, the Planet of the Apes came down.

Why? Oh, that's right. Yeah, because we had a tie in with the Planet of the Apes movie and figure out how to incorporate them. So all the people that hated all the stuff that maybe that I do, that's, don't forget about the apes. you know, 20 years ago. That's part of the business as well. As preposterous as you can get, that's what wrestling is. I'm so glad you brought that on.

Me and my friends would always be like, well, it can't be as bad as the apes. I'll tell you what. You should be thankful that I, that Brian Goertz and I made it as good as it was because we were given nothing. All we were given was Vince likes apes and he wants the apes on the show.

That's it. You figure it out. How'd you figure it out? Well, maybe I can do something with Stephanie where at the time she was a slut, whatever the bargain basement, whatever the hell thing I was saying. Filthy, dirty, disgusting. There you go. Filthy, dirty, disgusting, bar and basement.

Brutal trash bag. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. There you go. I never made a T-shirt either. I should about it. You called Trish that, too.

I guess, yeah, it was over, so I used it for a while. But, yeah, so I was, I think I said, you know, Stephanie, you have slept with everybody in this building, everybody on the planet Earth. That's right. It's almost like you have to leave. leave this planet to find something you haven't slept with, almost like you have to leave and go to the planet of the apes

and here comes some apes or whatever it was, and they brought a cake down when all else fails, throw a cake in Stephanie's face. You know, there you go. I'm so glad I'm being reminded of this wonderful segment.

Yeah, I'm so glad that I'm, I'm so mad that I am. Oh, my goodness. How did you come up with some of the great insults that you had? Like, I never had heard ass clown in my life before you. It's funny.

I can't remember if I thought of that first and then saw it in the movie office space or saw it in the movie office space and then used it. I think I came up with it in Bakersfield, California with Kurt Angle. What I was like, oh, your ass clown, something like that. And then people liked it. But then it's also in office space. So I don't know. Maybe either Mike Judge thought of it or I did. So I would probably say he might have said it first in that movie, if you've ever seen it.

But yeah, that's kind of, it was that influence. But I remember just kind of spewing it out like two words that didn't really fit, but put them together. It's great. It worked. Once again, who would have thunk it? Stupid idiots is one of my favorites. That one was, that was just like trying to be a jerk. You know what I mean?

Like trying to be kind of an uncool. You know, like I did it this week. What does that mean? What does anything mean? Lexi, like just like, what? And that was kind of what that was stupid idiot. And once again, I remember Vince saying if that was anybody, if it was anybody else but you, I wouldn't allow someone to say that because it's so bad.

But with you, it just works and really kind of lay that in there, you stupid idiot. And that was another freaking, you know, another home run that just around that time frame, I could, I could do no wrong. I could, I would challenge myself to see if I could get something over. Drink it in, man. You just made the list, the pen click. King of the World. The King of the World was early, man.

The Gift of Jericho, Drink It In Man. It was another one. You're going to get. But also the way you deliver promos, it's almost like you're a frontman of a rock band. Yeah, and it's funny how they both go hand in hand. But it's the chicken and egg here, right? Were you cutting promos like that first? Or were you talking like that as the front man?

And then your promo started to sound like that. I, when I first got into wrestling, was not very big because it was all about, you know, 1990, early 90s was still the Hogan era, Ultimate Warrior, you know, 6 foot 3, 6 foot 4, 6 foot 6, 300 pounds, solid muscle, jack to the gills. I'm 5 foot 11 almost. And I was probably 190, 195 at the time. I can't be as big as these guys on the show, but I can have the biggest personality and the biggest charisma.

So why don't I treat this like I'm a rock and roll frontman, like Paul Stanley or David Lee Roth or Freddie Mercury or Mick or any of those guys that I really liked and just be over the top being a party host? So I took the original idea from rock and roll. And then when I got into rock and roll, I took the wrestling character element that I'd taken from rock and roll. and then when I went back, it's like one big circle, you know? It really is all about performing in front of the live audience.

And if you can get people's attention and really hook them, then they're going to be fans of what you do. And if you can hook them to like you and you're a good guy, great. If you can hook them to not like you and you're a bad guy, that's great too. If you had a rock and roll show and nobody's having any fun, then you better make them have fun. If it takes throwing water on their heads or whatever it may be. If not, like I don't care if you're the great.

greatest band in the world or the greatest wrestler in the world. And you have a five star match or a five star performance. If nobody's cheering, it's zero stars. I don't care. If you go on stage or in the match and fuck up 100 things and the people are having a great time and enjoying it, then that's all that matters. And if a pundit wants to say, oh, he botched this or botch that, it doesn't matter. What matters is what the crowd reacted to and at the end of the day, if they enjoyed it or not.

I appreciate it. I appreciate that with all of this, it keeps coming back to music. I love how your mind works like that. Yeah, yeah, you know, it always has because I love wrestling, but I was always way more of a musicologist than a music guy. Like, you know, if I have a conversation with like Cody Rhodes or Tony Kahn, they'll know everything about wrestling, where the Royal Rumble 88 was and who won this, that. I know none of those things.

Yeah, Tony Kahn is encyclopedic knowledge. Cody's like that too. He just knows so much about the history of wrestling. I can't do that, but I can tell you the history of Iron Maiden, you know, or whatever it may be. And that's kind of a, you know, I think that's another reason why there's always been a good balance between my rock and roll career, my wrestling career, is that I appreciate both. I know a lot about both, but I might be maybe more successful in wrestling, but I know way more about music, which leads to more success in music.

Like, it all kind of works together. I called Kurt Angle, Kirk Angel, entire time in high school and Chris Benoit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where did you come up with those? Just once again, kind of a clued out guy who doesn't quite know what people's names are. I was like, Michael Cole was Mitchell. Mitchell Cole, Vivian Garcia. I always like Ron Mysterio.

Ron Mysterio. I don't know why that one made me laugh. Ron, Ron Mysterio. It's good. Yeah, so it's kind of like an idiot who doesn't quite know, you know, who these guys' names are. But I used it in AW all summer. Like, I'm so excited to be in Calgary. Edmonton, I'm sorry.

Boo, boo. And it's like fished in, fished in. I can't believe I haven't asked you this before. But what's the difference between the walls of Jericho where you put the knee on the back or not? So the original hold, which comes from Japan, where I saw it first, I think I saw Benoit use it first, was a really high angle Boston crab where you put your knee in the back of the guy's head. You almost lose your balance. Like you really have to kind of grind your knee into his head to, not lose your balance.

And that was the finish that I started using in WCW when Terry Taylor wanted me to use an arm bar. And I said, well, can I have this Boston crab that I'd seen that I'd used a few times in Japan? He liked that. He wanted me to have a submission finish because he was trying to get over a tap. This is about 1998 or so in WCW. Believe it not, people weren't tapping. They might be putting a sleeper.

So watch like the Brutus Beef Kemp matches from like 86 or something. Someone will get put in a sleeper and they'll just go to sleep. He's out. There's never a tap. Yeah. And UFC had become a thing, so Terry wanted to get the tap over. So that's where the submission came from. Problem was, I started realizing a few things.

One, if I worked with bigger guys, it's harder to get that balance. And two, you can't have anybody move. Like you put that on, they have to tap out. You can't make it to the ropes because then I have to readjust and it's obvious they're going to make the ropes. then when I went to WV everyone was so fucking big for sure I can't do this using the Boston crab

as a finish I can't do the high angle one with cane you just can't for example or any of those guys they're so deceptively tall you know what like think about like a Billy gun or Midian Midian Midian's like six foot six

yeah you know all these guys are so fucking tall and you get to WV realize this is the land of the giants can't put these guys in a in a in a in a in a lion tamer no walls of jericho with so i switched it around a because it was it was better for big guys and b guys could make it to the ropes and it wouldn't be a neon sign that that they were going to do so you would always hear fans be like no no put them in the real one like the one with the like neon is yeah yeah yeah yeah like that's the real one i'll still do that from time at time like if i if i do it and then someone makes it to the ropes i pull them back

and then I kind of cinch it in for the tap, then I'll put my knee on the back of the head. You have one of the greatest debuts in WWE history. We've all seen what happens after the countdown and you come out and the promo with the rock. Walk me through that day. What was it like when you arrived to the arena that day and everything leading up to your music hitting?

So that was Rosemont Horizon, Allstate Arena in Chicago, and it was my first show. I'd been to Detroit to watch Sunday night heat the night before just to be around the set and the guys and everything. But my very first WW show was Chicago. And Jesse Ventura was there. They were using him as the guest ref at SummerSlam and he was there, which is funny because he influenced me when I was a kid. Another long story short is he played in a celebrity hockey game that my dad played in.

And he gave me some advice and kind of really gave me some. some cool tips. And I saw him that night in 99 and I was, hey, Jesse, Chris Jericho. And he gave me some tips in Winnipeg. And he was like, oh, no, another Jesse Ventura success story. Kind of like job me out.

And I was like, oh, okay. He told you to stay in school, right? Yeah. He did not. Well, he said, he said, get a backup. Yeah. Yeah, he said get something to fall back on. So, which I did.

I went to get a journalism degree specifically because of Jesse. We're friends now, but I remember like, fuck like dude whatever so i go there and um i remember we had a we didn't have a rehearsal which is crazy to think um the rock and i and vince russo kind of went to a back area came up with some ideas i remember rock came up with the y2 j k y jelly up your ass or whatever whatever there's the hoovintude guerrera line in there as well so that was um both that was both rocks, those were both rocks ideas. Yeah, so we just went over at ourselves.

And then I saw Vince before and I had the hair up in a ponytail there and I had the kind of the Billy Grotes gruff beard. He looked at my hair, interesting hair. I said, well, it's cheap heat brother or something like that. And he's like, dude. And I remember I said, like, is there anything you want me to do? And he said, no, I'll be watching like a hawk. If there's anything that I don't like, I'll tell you, which he never told me anything.

And I did find out afterwards, he didn't like a lot of things that I did, but never said a word, of course. And then I remember just like when the idea came up for the for the countdown clock, which we'd been doing for about a month before on Raw, when the idea came up to end at zero during the Rock's promo, which is Vince's ideas. I mean, it doesn't get any bigger than the Brock was the number one guy in the company at the time, probably still is now. But to have that interrupt him. Yeah. Was like, you know, damn dude, like this is here's your. teed up chance at hitting a home run. And I just remember, like, being backstage and thinking, okay, all, like, it was nine years into my career, like, nine years, all the miles that I've traveled and all the matches that I've had and all the places I've been, this is it.

You have to hit a home run. If you don't, this could be the end. You know, you've been waiting nine years to, today, debut here. And that was kind of it. And then once the countdown went, people were going crazy because even though there was no internet at the time, people just knew it was me. Like I think it was almost like half the people made signs that said Jericho on it. Yeah. They just knew.

They knew it was me. It might have been the earliest, earliest days of the internet. As matter of it was, but I don't know how many people were actually reading it. But people knew. And when it hit zero and then the whole thing came on with the chick dancing and the music and then break the walls down with. Jericho in the biggest letters you've seen. Like if I'm an inch tall, they're like eight feet tall. Yeah.

And that was it, man. And just away we go. Did you sit backstage going, man, I hope these people watch WCW? No, because I mean, I knew that they did because the Monday Night Wars was still very big. But I think anytime you go to a new company, you never know, are people going to care? Yeah. Is this as much of a big deal as, as I've been doing? told it's going to be, you know, and it turned out that it was.

I mean, at this point in time, nobody had really jumped from WCW to WVE. It had all been the other way around, you know, if you talk about Brett and all the guys that went there, Davy and Knighthart and, you know, Brian Adams and just Scott Hall, Kevinette. Yeah, I mean, obviously they started, but just all the guys with Rick Rood. They're all going that way. Yeah. And a big show had come in February. But besides him, I was, I was the, the first big name.

to come over. And it wasn't even really a big name, but that really showed me right there how perception and how you get booked and the positions you're put in make the biggest difference. That changed your career. It really did.

I mean, right at the very beginning, I was slotted as a top guy. Now, after that, what people forget about that night is later on that night, I interfered in a Billy Gun Rock, match almost as a secondary player. So I came in at the highest of levels, and then you saw me again later on that night,

involved in the finish. It might have been causing Rock to lose, which wouldn't be secondary player, but it wasn't like that was the only thing I did. I did something else that night. And then I kind of just started a slow downhill fall, because that's WB. You get brought in at a big level, and then the double. and then the dust settles, and then you have to prove yourself

and you have to earn your respect. Everybody, everybody's gone through it. Name me any top guy that ever existed in WW, and you'll see the same thing happens. Nobody starts out on top and stays there. How did you get back up? It took a long time.

It was after, I mean, I won the Undisputed Championship. That's a one. Yeah, but that wasn't really like, it was more of just. It beat Austin and Rock in the same night. I know, but was never treated as such afterwards.

And not in a bad way. I didn't have Vince's trust at that point. I think it took all the way until the Sean Michaels, Jericho suit and tie feud in 2008. Wow. That's when I really feel that I lived up to my potential and that I really got Vince's respect

as somebody that he knew he could trust in the ring and out as far as being a general. But they could have made anyone the undisputed champion. Could have been stone cold. Could have been rock. I heard there was going to be. angle for a while. Yeah, I mean, that's what I heard too. And it's the famous story I've told many

times before that, you know, everybody, the first time when the title has their family there and their wives and their, you know, their grandparents and everybody in between. I had nobody there because I didn't know until that afternoon. I was sitting in catering and Vince and Undertaker were getting food. And Vince said loud enough so he knew I could hear it. Hey, take her, you know, you know how you know the business is going down the toilet. How? We're putting the belt on Jericho. I think this is much disdain as he could Jericho like spitting the name out and I was just like me um but yeah I mean once again all of it is part of the journey to get to the top and that's why anybody that wants to be a top guy you don't just wave a magic wand and you're a top guy I mean you can push somebody

and stay with them but you still have to give people time to develop and understand who their character really is I mean there's people in AW that I say you're still not as good as you think you are. And they'll be so much better in five years from now. Right now they think they know everything. You don't really learn until 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. I mean, 34 years, I'm still learning. And still figuring out ways to stay on top.

Because if not, then you're just a nostalgia act. But I think that's the thing that you want to keep learning. And you're pushing it forward. Have to. I remember when I first started working that 2016 run with WWE, when I started working with Kevin Owens and Sammy Zane and Seth Rawlins and Roman, all those guys. I remember, like, Seth Rollins gave me two topes in a row,

maybe three, whatever he was doing. I remember just thinking, like, when I got in the business, which was now freaking, you know, 25 years earlier, you would never do that. But times have changed. Like, this is what the business is now. So you either adapt to it, embrace it, or you go, I'm not doing that.

in your honky talk man working, you know, high school gyms and not want to take bumps for anybody. I never wanted that. I wanted to never be a nostalgia act. Still don't. You know, it's one of the reasons why I went to AW in the first place. I didn't want to go back to WV and do the list, which I knew they'd want me to do. And this was, you know, three years later, the list is not a thing for me right now. Yeah. You want to continue to push and grow and evolve and stay as relevant as possible and still build the business and build other guys. And you can do all of those things as long as you understand what the business is all about. Well, look, it's always good to see you.

Yeah, man. Thank you again for coming by. Thank you for having me on your show as well. Absolutely. We'll do a little plug in there. Now, the real tough questions begin. Well, you did, you do have a journalism degree. I do.

I do not. I'm going to grill you. I have a communication studies degree. That's kind of close. I was creative communications was the name of my course with a major in journalism. I was think of that Simpson's episode where the soccer player breaks his leg. They're like, that's okay. You can always fall back on your degree in communications.

I know, it's a joke degree. But I'll wrap this up with the question I ask at the end of every episode. I think I asked you this last time, too. What are three things in your life you're grateful for right now? Always my family, number one. You have little kids. And the best thing about Christmas when you have kids is when they're very little. And when they get old and move out of the house and come back home.

That's like the best time. I'm proud that I've been able to travel the world and making a living doing something that I love that I've always wanted to do and that I always dreamed of doing. And 34 years in, it's still a dream. And three, the fact that I've been able to entertain people from all walks of life, all around the world for many years. And you hear the stories, you know, about fans. family members that have passed away or friends that the connection was wrestling or Chris Jericho or whatever it may be.

All of that means something to me. And like we talked about some some fans that aren't as nice, that's okay. That's your opinion. But it's the people that really have enjoyed my work. I never take that for granted. And I always appreciate that and knowing that none of this was done in vain, no matter what it is, any type of thing that I've done. People enjoyed it and still enjoy it. And that's why I continue to do it. I love it. Always good to see you. Thanks, man. Thank you. Thank you.

Well, there we go. I've always so fascinated by how Chris Jericho thinks because everything comes back to music for him. Like every reference he had there was like, oh, that reminds me of David Bowie or that reminds me of Axel Rose. It was just, it was great hearing that. My interview with Talk is Jericho is up right now. So go check that out. It's Chris Jericho and I talking about my career and how I started interviewing wrestlers, how my YouTube channel even began, and who the best and worst guests have ever been. Tag us on social media. Snap a screenshot.

Let us know that you're listening to this. He's at Chris Jericho Fawsey on Instagram and apparently don't tag him on Twitter because, like he said, he doesn't spend any time there anymore. So just tag him on Instagram. Chris Jericho, Fawsey. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and since we talked about so many things to do with music here,

I'll leave you with a quote from a rock star, Eddie Van Halen. It's funny at the start of the Talkus Jericho episode he's talking about how the Van Fleet's and the Van Halens, they were probably years ago, centuries ago, had this big beef with each other, the Battle of the Vans.

You only have one life to live. So you should live it as beautifully as you can. The great Eddie Van Halen be great. Be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got Penta on the show tomorrow. Yes, an episode on Friday had some technical difficulties this week. So it's an interview on Thursday and on Friday. And of course, we're still going to have Ask CVV happening tomorrow. So like a twofer on Friday. We'll see you right back here tomorrow for that one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback

Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley.

Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.