Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chris Jericho Reflects On AEW's First 5 Years, Working For Tony Khan & Vince McMahon, Wanting To Fight Brock Lesnar For Real

Episode Date: December 5, 2023

Chris Jericho (@iamjericho) is a professional wrestler with AEW and was previously in WWE. He is also a bestselling author, actor, podcaster and the frontman of the rock band Fozzy. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Hollywood, CA to talk about his legendary pro wrestling career that has spanned 34 years, his decision to sign with AEW in 2019, how much AEW has accomplished in its first 5 years, the differences and similarities of working with Tony Khan and Vince McMahon, his ability to reinvent himself, the popularity of his entrance theme "Judas", being the main event of WrestleMania 18 instead of The Rock vs. Hulk Hogan, being in the ring when Triple H tore his quad, standing up to Brock Lesnar, whether he still thinks he will be inducted in the WWE Hall of Fame, how much longer he wants to wrestle and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: Choice, not chance, determines your destiny. - Aristotle Sponsors: ZBIOTICS: Get 15% off with the code CVV and have a better morning after you drink at http://zbiotics.com/cvv FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 25% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van! Baby, welcome back to another one here on Insight. Or maybe for this one, I should be saying, The Chris and Chris Show. We've got the one and only Chris Jericho with us. Thank you so much for being with us.

I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet, and thank you for making Insight. One of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. Yeah, we've got the man with many nicknames joining us today. Lionheart, Y2J, The pain maker, Le Chompion, the Ocho, the wizard. But really, you should be calling him the goat,

or at least one of the goats. So good to be sitting down in person with Chris Jericho on this one. And those aren't just nicknames that I listed off there. It's incredible how many times Chris Jericho has completely reinvented himself over his 34-year career. And that number right there, 34 years,

that in itself is crazy, the level that he's doing this at. If you happen to be one of the people who listens to the show but hasn't hit that follow button yet, could you please do me a favor? Hit follow wherever you're listening to this right now. I don't ask for much.

I certainly don't ask for your money with Patreon or anything like that, but if you've ever enjoyed one of these conversations, it would mean so much to me if you would follow the show because as the show keeps getting bigger, The guests also keep getting bigger like today. While you're at it, hit follow on Chris Jericho's podcast.

I'm sure you're familiar with it. Talk is Jericho. One of the OG wrestling podcast, man, he is so good. And we dive into so many topics during this conversation that cover his entire career, dating back to the debut he had against Lance Storm, his work in Mexico, WCW, of course, WWF when he debuted. of course it became WWE, his decision to sign with AEW and the impact that that had and kind of like a look back at like, it's been five years. Like in January, it will be five years since AEW was announced.

What's these five years been like for him? Have they lived up to his expectations? Have they lived up to Tony Kahn's expectations? So much to get into here, including a story about wanting to bite off Brock Lesnar's nose. Fantastic. If you enjoy this, please share you. share it with a friend and take a screenshot, share it on social media so we can share it out as well. Jericho, very active on the social medias. He's at I am Jericho on Twitter. He's at Chris Jericho Fawzzi on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet.

And here we go, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Chris Jericho. Did I see you picking your, you were picking your stitches out recently on social media, right? I was, yeah. Is that the scar? That's the one. Dude. Yeah, that was just from yesterday. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, this happened to full gear against the bucks. And then... How many stitches was that? It was 10 total, I think six in one, four in the other. Jeez. Yeah, so they had to come out after 10 days, and I was like, I'm not going to fucking go to stupid walking clinic. I'll just do it myself. I didn't know there was like a stitch removal kit.

You had like... I didn't know either that gave me that. Every other time I've just taken them up myself with like... my own scissors and tweezers. That's wild. After 33 years, you carry your own shit. This is the Chris and Chris show.

Thank you so much for coming back on. Absolutely. This is the first time I've actually ever been here with the big studio. I think last one we're in the back of a Chrysler or something. We've had some very interesting locations. The very first one, you might not even remember this, is when Fossey came to Cleveland.

I did an interview with you in 2013. No kidding. And then there was... It's a place called in Cleveland. I can... I'm pushing in my head. I think they tore it down. They did.

Why can't I remember it now? If we said it, we would both go, oh, yeah, absolutely. Yes, of course. Then I did one with you on your tour bus. Before you were even talking about coming back to WWE, AEDW anything. I don't remember either of those. And then there was the back seat of your car after the AEW announcement, which, by the way, that interview gets brought up weekly.

Really? Really? That's the first interview I saw of yours, and I've been subscribed ever since. No kidding. Well, you're welcome. Yeah, no, but seriously. Seriously, thank you for, like, that opportunity. No, because I remember we were outside of Dory Funk's weird wrestling gym arena type thing

because I was doing a live talk as Jericho with Dori for a charity for the firefighters of Ocala or something like that. And you hustled from, I think you drove up from like Miami or something. Yeah, and you're like, I'm in Ocala, Florida. I'm like, typed it into the map. It's like four and a half hours each way. And that's why I was like, you know what, dude? If you're going to hustle and do that, then the least thing can do is sit in the backseat of your car

for 45 minutes or whatever it was. And on the drive home from that, we wanted to get that interview up as quickly as possible. So on the drive home, my buddy was, Daniel was driving. I was editing it. Then the computer died. And then we stopped at some rest spot on the side of the road

to plug in to finish the export. Oh, man, it was. That's great. Well, here we are, which is high tech studio here. And here we are. The location. That's right.

Secret location in Hollywood, California. Yeah, the back cave. That was like, that was your first interview after signing with AEW. it's been almost five years. Yeah. Where do you feel like AEW is at now, five years in? I mean, I don't, well, let me phrase it.

I was going to say I don't think things could have gone better. Obviously, there's always things that can go better, but I think overall, I think it's far exceeded what most people expected. I don't think it's exceeded what Tony Kahn is expected, because I'm sure he was thinking big right out of the gate, which we know he was. and I can't say that it's exceeded what I've expected, but I can't say that I'm not a little bit pleasantly surprised. It's just how big the company is after,

like you said, four years, five years, not even five years. January is going to be five years. Which is unbelievable to think about that, you know, any company, wrestling or if you have a pharmacy or if you're a band or whatever it may be, if you're a law firm, to grow that big in less than five years is, you know, unconceivable, but yet here we are. Yeah. Did you realize, and don't be humble here for a minute?

I'm never humble. Did you realize how much your name being attached to it would really change the perception? Because I think people went, oh, there's another wrestling company. Oh, that's cool. Oh, wait. Chris Jericho is part of this other wrestling company? Wow. The short answer to that is yes, I knew it with the value that I had, which is one of the reasons

why I really wanted to do it because, you know, it's been well documented that my last run in WWE, even though it was super popular and super over, was still, you know, not a main event program, which in my opinion it should have been. And it was, at least from the fan interest and the reactions and stuff. So I remember thinking, like, I could stay in WWW for as long as I want and just be a guy here because that's basically, you know, I started feeling like I did when I left WCW where I had this great storyline with Goldberg, but I knew it was never going to get me any higher. So I got to go somewhere else, which was WWF at the time. Same thing in WWF to where it was like I can do more than this in WWE.

I can do more than second match on the show. So I went to New Japan and headlined in the Tokyo Dome, you know, three years in a row. First Tokyo Dome was around the time when Tony started talking about AW. And I thought, I can stay in WWE and be a guy or I can be the guy. which I've never been in WWE. Just it was never, never really worked that way. And not from like a fame and fortune standpoint,

but from like really changing the business and adding like a huge checkmark to my legacy. Because if you think about it, you know, and you're right because besides Chris Jericho, he had Jim Ross, who everyone knew, and Cody Rhodes,

who some people knew, but he'd been gone out of the mainstream for a few years. And other than that, there was really nobody. And I knew that if I, that if I signed up with AEW, that it would help them, which would help them get their deal,

our deal with TBS, and put the company on the map right away. And my hunch was real. That's what happened. But not only are you the guy in AEW and you have been since it started, you've been so giving. Like you've been so giving at helping other talent get recognized

and really helping them get into the spot that they're in now. Well, I mean, yeah, not the guy per se now because I knew I had a very short window of being the guy to elevate as many of our talents as I could because I can't carry the load, you know, forever and nor can anybody, you know. So I knew like, okay, if we hit the ground running right out of the gate, let's do a faction. Okay, we got Santana Ortiz, we got Jake Hager coming in, we got Sammy Guevar. Those four guys are with me. They'll start growing. of the Young Bucks and Kenny were doing so great overseas and kind of in the indie scene. Never been on national TV though. We got to we got to make these guys look great. Cody Rhodes

reintroduce this guy as this you know was the beginning of where he's at now. You know, Hangman Page, Orange Cassidy, Jack Perry, Scorpio Sky, Darby Allen. Those are all guys that I worked in the first six months of the company and did everything I could to get them to the next step. And that worked really quickly. It really did because people were waiting for, it's hard to remember kind of how it was back in 2019, but people were waiting for an alternative, waiting for new stars.

And there was this whole collection of guys who had made big names for themselves everywhere around the world, except for on national TV in the United States. So they were ready. They just needed the platform and the storyline and the spotlight, and they got it. So I think three or four months in, when we first got that TV deal with TVS,

that the first giant deal, I think we had built a lot of guys very quickly, which would enable us to get a really big television deal, which kept us alive. And I think that people forget, here we are almost five years removed, that AEW became the number two wrestling promotion without one single match at that point in time.

So, like, there were no matches, no events before double or nothing, and people were already buzzing about AEW. Well, because they knew that something was happening. We did the, I'm bad with the names, the All-Out show maybe in Chicago, the first one that Cody and the ball in all in sorry where I dressed up as Pentagon and attacked Kenny. That raised a lot of ears to where it's like you can sell 10,000 tickets as an indie company, you know. Well, it wasn't an indie company.

It was kind of the blueprint for where we were going. Yeah, like the proof of concept. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right. And using these guys who once again, like who the hell is Kenny Omega to the mainstream wrestling fan. Now, if you knew wrestling, you knew who he was. but you know mom pa in you know

Selena Kansas probably had never heard of him before didn't take long for people to see him it's the same thing I did when I went to New Japan with Kenny like I think subscriptions for for their their New Japan World platform pay per view site whatever I think the subscriptions went up like I think it was like 300%

and so what I knew I could do is like if you're if you're signing up to watch New Japan and see Chris Jericho there now you're going to going to see Kenny Omega and see all these other guys if you watch the whole show and go, wow, this company's cool. Yeah. This company's great.

And that was a really great move for me too. I mean, people forget, too. I did six matches and 10 appearances total in New Japan in 18, 19, and 20 before the pandemic. And I had huge momentum to the, and the company had huge momentum to the point where in 2020, there was two Tokyo Dome shows on January 4th and 5th. And then the pandemic kind of messed that up. But we built that company up huge. And then so when AEW first starts,

we can do the same thing here. Whereas if Chris Jericho is the bridge to try AED because we know Jericho, great. And if you come once or twice or three times, then I have to do as much as I can to say, well, here's Chris versus Cody. And there's a great Kenny in the Bucks match. Then there's this Orange Cassidy guy.

And then there's, you know, here's Britt Baker, whoever is that you're watching. And that really worked. It worked. You know, it's hard to remember the time before the pandemic, but the first three or four months of AW was really hot. Everything was sold out.

Everything was rocking. Pandemic derailed that, but the quality of our shows didn't diminish. And had we not had that initial four months to really get our foot in the door, who knows what would have happened? Winter is here, and for me, that means struggling to find the exact dry temperature when I sleep. Too hot, too cold. But recently, I found a way to stay at the perfect temperature all night long using silver-infused bed sheets by mirror Made that were inspired by NASA. Yes, NASA.

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questions asked. It's definitely worth a try when you go to zbiotics.com slash CVV and use the code CVV at checkout for 15% off. So a big thank you to Zbiotics for sponsoring this episode and for sponsoring our good times. I feel like if anybody else was running that company when a worldwide pandemic hit, they would have closed up shop. They wouldn't have been able to keep going. You know, there was so many factors that allowed that. One was the passion of Tony Con and two, the fact that, you know, they own the Jacksonville Jaguars. They don't own the stadium, but they have the lease on the stadium. So we had a stadium we could use.

We had a whole amphitheater in Daly's place that we could use. So we didn't have to worry about it. And we were in Florida where wrestling was deemed an important, whatever, the official term they used back then. Essential service wherever because it was providing entertainment. So we were set. We didn't have to do a damn thing. We just couldn't have to. It couldn't have worked out any better.

I remember when the pandemic started, there was a ruling that came out, let's say that they were shutting everything down in Florida and Georgia at like 12 midnight. And we had 24 hours to go to QT Marshall's gym, decorate it like a television set, and basically do like 30 matches to get all those weeks in the can. Right. You know what I mean?

And that's why I started commentary, commentating, because I was supposed to be on the show as the commentator that week. Just like, well, I'll commentate for whatever we were doing in the story. Yeah. And that's how it was. Well, then I'll come, I'll fly there and just commentate the whole show. And then after those four weeks we're done, we're like, where are we going to work? And I was like, let's do it in my backyard. I've got a big backyard.

Let's set up a ring and put some lights. Can we do a TV taping up the backyard? You can't tell me that I can't have people over at my house. And then we were able to use Daley's Place, which was the, had we not had that? Who knows what would have happened? and this TV deal that kept it going. If it was still an ad rev share, like it was for the first three months, we might have had to close up the doors.

But all those things kind of happened to allow us to stay away. When you talk about the passion of Tony Kahn, you've worked for two billionaires now, Vince and Tony. What are the similarities there and what are the differences between working for both of them? I mean, the passion is the similarities, you know, and you have to have it. The enthusiasm for sure. the wrestling knowledge, even though Vince was in his 70s and Tony's in his 30s,

but I always think back to what was Vince like in 1982 when he took over, you know, WWF. And he was probably a lot like Tony, you know. Ways of running the companies are different. Vince has more of an iron hand and Tony's more of a people person when there's pros and cons for both of those. But they're two different people, you know, and that's never going to change. So the coolest thing about working for both of them is you almost become like a billionaire whisperer. You got to know, you got to know how to talk to these guys. And when you can figure out how to talk and relate, you can have a great relationship.

I had a great relationship with Vince. I have a great relationship with Tony. And I have a lot of respect for both of them. You know, I, Tony's my boss. I have never once disrespected him, not done what he's asked of me, talk back to him. caused any problems whatsoever because he's my fucking boss. And, you know, if we're on set for a movie and, you know, freaking Steven Spielberg goes, hey, Chris, I want you to, you know, take this soda

can and pour it over your head. And I go, that's fucking stupid. He's like, okay, well, then they'll hire some other dude to come in and pour the soda can over his head. It's like, this is show business. And we play a role and a part in a show. And it doesn't matter if you like it or not. You have to make it work and you have to make it good.

It's what Pat Patterson taught me. He used to say about Vince that, you know, some days he likes chocolate, some days he likes strawberry, but it's his fucking ice cream shop. You've got to make the ice cream. You do what he wants you to do. You don't like the chocolate? Who gives a fuck? You make the ice cream.

And that's my big thing. It's Tony's ice cream stand. So whatever he wants me to do, I'll do my best. So what's the billionaire whisperer secret for Vince McMahon? If you want to get an idea through to Vince, how do you whisper it in? I mean, it was just trust in time. you know like I worked for Vince for 17 years total

18 years 18 19 years almost 20 years and you know the first gosh eight years maybe I was there and cool but then when we did the Sean Michael's feud and I became a suit and tie guy Jericho that's when I think I finally reached my potential

that he saw in me and always could not figure out why the fuck I wasn't getting it you know because that was still, you know, 18 years into the business is when I finally really grasped what wrestling really is. Even though you had already been the world champion many times? Yeah, that didn't matter. Wow. That's nothing really, you know.

And the Sean Michaels feud is when I could actually, you know, sit down with Vince or call Vince and talk to him about stuff. And once again, it's if he wants me to do something with Vince, if you have, if he gives you something to do and you don't like it, you better have an alternative. because if you just say, I don't like it, and he says, what else you got? And you say, well, I don't know. He's like, well, then we're doing mine. If you come in and say, well, this is what I was thinking, then nine times out of ten, he's going to go with it.

Because if I feel it and I explain it to him, he's going to feel it. It's the same with Tony, you know, but sometimes still, it's like, okay, I get it. It's a great idea, but I want to do it this way. Okay. That's it. You're done. There's nobody else to fight with or argue with. Then, okay, this is my new, you know, this is your mission.

if you choose to accept it, well, you choose to accept it when you sign the contract. And if you want to stay employed and be great in the business, you accept the mission and you make it as good as you possibly can. With that passion that Vince has, I feel like people thought he would never step aside unless he was dead. Right. He stepped aside now. Are you surprised at that? I mean, you know, once again, there's the reasons why he was stepping aside. And I'm not talking about that side of things.

I never thought he would step down. And then I think had those other issues come up, there's no way that he would have. But also too, Vince is also smart. And I bet you he was like, okay, I'm at the point now where this is not good for me to be here. So he trained, groomed Triple H for 20 years. And, you know, probably felt confident enough that things are going to continue without him.

And, you know, I say this all the time. Like in AW, I think everybody could use six months working for Vince, man, because that's where you really understand what wrestling is, the wrestling business, and how the business works. And I loved working for him. And I loved going head to head with him and creating ideas and debating ideas and arguing ideas. But he always used to say, you know, I'm not here just to teach you wrestling lessons.

I'm here to teach you life lessons. And he did. taught me a lot of life lessons. You know, guys really fucking a cool guy, you know, for my, once again, from my experiences with him. And I'm not easy to deal with and an asshole sometimes. But he's your boss. You're not supposed to be friends with your boss all the time.

But then you can still get on the private jet and drink for four hours. Let's see the stones. He drinks, I think it's doers. He drinks whiskey. But I think it's doers. There might be McCallum or something like that. And you're vodka going to. Yeah.

He could never understand that. And actually it was great. When I was hosting Tough Enough in Orlando, I had a press day in New York the next day. and he would always fly in and out of white planes. That's close to where he lives. And they said, you can just jump in on the jet with Vince. So it was me and Vince and Triple H and Kevin Dunn.

And we're flying back from Orlando and it probably left it. Actually, they go, they oil spotted me and left me at the venue. And then we're like, where are you at? We're at the plane. Where are you? So you guys were supposed to give me a ride. It's like, we weren't supposed to give me a ride. Oh, so fucking asshole.

So then I get there and I get on the plane and we start to fly. And he and I are drinking. and uh triple h and and kevin decided to go to sleep and so vince and i are just kind of hanging out listen to the stones and acdc because those are two favorite bands and um we land and we go to you know our respective hotels or he goes or actually when we land he goes let's go to the gym i'm like dude go to the gym it's like literally like 4 30 in the morning like i got to get up at seven he's like i got to get up at six we're fucking drunk he's like let's go to the gym i'm like you're not going to the gym i'm not going to the gym i'm not going to the gym i'm going to sleep

So I get to my room and go to sleep about 4.30 and wake up at 6.30. I got a text on my phone. Picture of Vince flexing in the gym. And he writes Vince 1, Jericho, zero. Wow. He was probably 73 at the time or something. That's insane. But he has that work ethic, you know.

He would always say, like, I don't expect you to do anything that I wouldn't do myself. Wow. And that rubs off. There's a way that the W.B. works where you don't say no to anything. I mean, they ask you to do press. You do it. They ask you to sign a thousand action figures. You do it because if you don't, you know there's going to be consequences and big ones.

And that's just kind of, I think everybody in AEW needs to understand that sometimes. You had a great relationship with Vince. Are you still in touch with him now? Once in a while, I'll shoot a text or something like that. I think the last time I spoke to him, something went down in Saudi Arabia that I commented on. You got mad at me about that. At the end of the conversation, you go, you know what else? You need to lose some weight.

It's like poking at you. If I were with that glass on, he would have called me four eyes or something. You're absolutely 1,000% a Hall of Famer. But do you think you'll be inducted in the WWU Hall of Fame? I was like going against the grain. Like, I loved it when Axel Rose didn't show up to the Hall of Fame

and sent a note saying, not only am I not showing up, you're not allowed to say my name. I love that shit. Like, that's fucking rock and roll, man. So I don't really understand the point of a Hall of, Hall of Fame. Like, if you think I'm in it, that's great. Of course you're

in it. There's no real Hall of Fame. It's all kind of in W.B.'s mind in their chambers of the mind, you know? And, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, you know, go up there and give some approved speech where you have five minutes to fucking encapsulate 33 years. It's like, you know, because I was at the Hall of Faines when you had like, Hillbilly Gym talking for 45 minutes.

You're like, fucking hell. dude, you're on Saturday Night's Main event once. You don't have a lot to say enough. And nothing against Hibli. Jim, he's a cool guy and he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. Remember when they wrapped up Mr. T in the same way? I mean, dude, Blackjack Lanzah, you know, and then you get

the freaking Undertaker and he gets 50 minutes. Like, I'm not, I don't know, I'm not interested in that at this point. And like I said, it's not a disrespectful thing. It's just like I don't really see the benefits of it and I kind of like doing opposite things. I've gone to a discussion with somebody

recently when I was like, of course, Chris Jericho's one of the greatest of all time. They're like, I don't know. I don't know where he falls in there. It's like, when you look at the resume that you have and you're 33 years in and going, how could you possibly make an argument against that? If I died tomorrow, everyone would say I'm one of the greatest of all time. You better not die. It's just, it's just, I hope not. It's just that I think because I'm still here, still doing it at the highest of levels, there's a lot of people online that just hate that. So, you know, if Chris Jericho says the sky is blue, I'm an asshole because the sky is obviously red. So, and then you deal with that.

Like, there's a lot of Chris Jericho haters right now. It's kind of in vogue to hate Chris Jericho for whatever reason. And once again, I've never cared, you know. I mean, sometimes it gets to you, but it's, I only judge myself. And, you know, am I still able to have the best match on the show on any given night? Yes. Not every night, but on any given night, you know? And am I still doing entertaining segments and having great matches and thinking of ideas

and building the company and helping build others? Yes. When that starts disappearing, then I'll, you know, reevaluate. But for now, I mean, dude, I don't know, you know, at the risk of not sounding humble. I don't know who's had a longer career that I've had with as much diversity. evolution, reinvention, and actually just the opponents that I've had. You know, I mean, I don't think there's anybody in the history of the business who has worked, you know, almost everybody.

Yeah. You know, I worked Dick Murdoch, and I worked, you know, Takeda, you know, or I worked, you know, I just like anybody in between kind of falls in there. And you name somebody of top value from the last, you know, let's say the mid 80s till now. and I've worked with 99% of them. Is there anybody throughout WCW, WWW, WW? But it's not just that.

It's also Germany. It's Mexico. It's Smoky Mountain Wrestling. It's ECW. Like, think about that. It's crazy. I can say I wrestled every top guy in Mexico. And almost every top guy in Japan.

Every top guy in ECW, Smoky Mountain, WCW, WWE. Not a lot of people can say that. You know, and that's kind of something that I think once I retire, people will go, holy fuck, that guy really did do a lot of stuff. And it bothers me so much that people aren't saying that right now. Yeah, but I think it's cool because I'm still doing it.

You know, and I think sometimes people get mad at that. And I'm also very convicted and I stand up for what I believe in. And that pisses people off sometimes. Like, I have no problems losing a match when it's right. And I have no problems with winning a match when it's right. Yeah. And I'm at the point now when I win matches, people say I should have lost. If I lose matches, I'm just a jobber.

So, you know, once again, you can't listen to those types of things. But to me, it's like I know what's right from doing this for so long. And I know that I'm still a huge asset to the company that I work for. And if people don't like that, then that's your opinion, you know? You are the king of reinvention. And I think what the most important part about that is, you never let any of your gimmicks linger on for too long. How do you know when it's time to say goodbye to something? I just know.

you know, I just know a vibe, a feeling. You know, I know when it's time to turn heel, I know it's time to turn baby face, I know when it's time to start a faction, I know when it's time to end a faction, a storyline,

continue a storyline, you know, yeah, with the characters and the gimmicks and the catchphrases and all that sort of stuff, there's just a window, you know, and there was, like when I was contemplating coming to AEW,

I was also kind of negotiating with Vince to go, back to WV. But I was like, if I go back to WVee after two years or whatever it was, the first thing they're going to want me to do is put somebody on the list. And I just didn't feel that anymore. Like the list was fucking huge.

It was so crazy. But it was a moment in time. You know, I go with the list now. You know, it's kind of like, fuck, I don't know.

If I'm kissed playing rock and roll all night, you know, it's like it's my old song, but I want to play new songs. And I still appreciate, respect the old songs. but I just, yeah, I just kind of get a feeling and know whether it's a look, whether it's, you know, like you said, like a catchphrase or some kind of a gimmick or whatever it may be, just leave and come up with something else. And what is that something else?

Sometimes it just hits me. Sometimes I don't know. Sometimes like the wizard, like that was a pretty short live, pretty popular. Yeah. And what was that from? Well, I threw a fireball. Somebody made a comment about it. And I was like, yeah, well, I'm a little mental rolodex.

I was like, what? Who throws a fireball? fireball. Well, dragon can breathe fire. Oh, the wizard? Like, wizard throws a fireball, right? I'm a wizard. And suddenly the wizard thing becomes popular.

Like, Le Champion, I was just, when I was the champion in AW, I was just like, what's the most obnoxious thing I can think of? Like, I'll call myself the champion, but in French. Why? I don't know. It just sounds pretty pompous, like kind of something an asshole would do. And that became a thing. Like, just all those things, you try it.

And if it works, then you keep it. You know, I had another one. I was GFA. I was saying GFA, GFA, GFA. And then Mox came out when he came back from his rehab and just told some fan to go fuck yourself. And I was like, well, my GFA sounds really tame now at this point. So that kind of didn't really work. But there's some things that work, some things that don't.

You stick with the ones that work until you feel that it's not working anymore and you switch it to something else. But there's a lot of wrestlers that are hanging on to a gimmick they did 20 years ago. Yeah. And you're able to see the writing on the wall before anybody else does. I mean, I always, and not that I'm even close, but I always kind of. look for inspiration to David Bowie. It's like I'm the David Bowie of wrestling. Yeah, you told me that a few interviews ago.

I think I probably said it a lot. That's brilliant. Because Bowie always changed his look, his gimmick, his sound, his presentation, but the essence was still always Bowie. So you never knew what you're going to get from him. And you could say, fuck,

I love the let's dance era of Bowie. You know, why is he not playing any of this? And he's forming a rock band called Tin Machine and playing guitar. Why would you do that? It's like, fuck. Who else?

would do that. Like, that's just the completely ignoring your biggest record and starting a band. Tin machine. It's not Tim Machine with David Bowie or Bowie Machine. Like,

who would do that? Like, that sort of career, taking a chance with your career like that. I just always really loved it. Like, when I came back to W.O.B. in 2007, and I was still doing Y2J,

but I had short hair and it just didn't feel right. It's like, I got to get rid of this. And I switched from long ties to short. tights and I'd cut my hair like I said and I was like you know what I no more countdown let's get rid of that and I told the announcers and all the press guys and magazine guys

never call me Y2J ever again ever don't say it on commentary don't say it in the ring announcement don't put it in the in the magazine or on ads no more there's no more fucking Y2J and you know when you do that it's like when KISS took their makeup off there's no way not to see that there's there's a change here. You know what I mean? Like this is different. Like what happened to all the cool stuff that we loved about Chris Jericho? Well, it's gone.

And you took it one step further. You changed your finisher. So now it's the code breaker. And like, yeah, that's a huge thing too. So now it's a new move set. Yeah.

And that's when I came into AEDAW is like, I need a move, a new move, a new finish that I can use on anybody. Yeah. Which is always the way you want to do it, you know? And I was doing a lot of kickboxing at the time.

And the guys said they do a spinning elbow and I did it. And I said, can you just like stand there for a couple seconds with the pad? And I just did it a couple times. I said, would that knock somebody out? He goes, it happens all the time. Like a spinning elbow knocks somebody out. It's like, that's it.

That's the new finish. I remember the first time I ever used it was the first AW pay-per-view when I wrestled Kenne Omega in Vegas. And he took the finish and, you know, I pinned him with it. And it always takes a while for someone, hey, man, do you mind if I pin you with this new finish that's not over for shit? So when I hit it, no one knows what's going on, but instantly pin it. in cana Omega, now it's a thing.

Yeah. You know, and only one person has ever kicked out of it since. Do you see any version of reinvention where you're not using Judas as a theme song? Well, I never saw a version of reinvention where I wouldn't use Break the Walls down. Like, I tried to change that a couple times and Vince would never let me. Did you not like it? I liked it, but I wanted to change it up. You know, I had a version that Zach Wilde did from Ozzy and it was like a black label

society version. Vince hated it. We tried a couple like remixes of it and different. beats and stuff. He hated it. I wanted to use Avenge Sevenfold's nightmare at one point. No interest. He said, you know, you are so synonymous with that theme song. It's like Steve

with the breaking glass, you know, or a rock, smell what the rock is cooking. He's like, you can't change it. So it's okay, fine. Then when I went to work the Tokyo Dome, I can't use it. You know, and so what am I going to use and we've been trying to get gags in Japan for 20 years with Fazi.

We just can't for whatever reason. We will, though. And I was like, well, maybe if 50,000 people listen to Judas in the Tokyo Dome, maybe somebody will book us to play it. And they didn't, but it became a thing. And once I heard that song and coming to the ring, it was like, it's got a real groove to it. So I'll use it in Tokyo and in New Japan.

And then with AW, it's like, well, it's really working good. So let's try and license it and use it here. And then the real kind of crowning achievement for that was when we were on the Jericho cruise and walking to the ring. in the company that I helped start on the cruise that I created to the song that I sang was one of the coolest professional moments. But on top of that, everyone in the crowd started singing it. Yeah. And that's what was like, oh my gosh, hopefully other crowds do this.

And they did. Yeah. And once again, then the pandemic comes and you're like, fuck, it was so close. And I remember just thinking, when we started having people come back, are they going to, are they going to remember? And the first time we were allowed, I don't know, 500 people or whatever it was, they sang it. And it sounded like a choir of millions. It was just such good music to my ears. So I don't see any reason why not to come out to it now.

Because I think it's as synonymous with me as Break the Walls Down was. And also, too, it's part of the show. And now people love singing along to it. Like not being in Minneapolis tonight for Dynamite, I know there will be people who went there just to sing Judas and they won't get a chance, which is fine because next time I come to Minneapolis, they'll be excited. Like, once again, you don't overkill it.

But it really has become. you know, my, my song. So my wife's not a wrestling fan. When we were dating, I brought her to an AEW show in Ontario, California. And when you came out, I said, oh, wait till you see this. The whole crowd is going to sing. She's like, what do you mean? I'm like, just watch.

Yeah. It's one of the coolest entrances, if not the coolest entrance in all of wrestling. I mean, thanks. I mean, yeah, it's one of those things where, like I mentioned, like, it's part of the show. And we always try as professionals to get organic reactions. You know, you want people to, you know, if you smell what the rock is cooking, for example, or whatever it may be. Whatever, whatever the catchphrase is, you want people to be able to say that, you know, on their own. And to have them sing it is amazing because, like, I don't know how these people knew the words or knew the lyric or if they knew the song or they just heard it a bunch.

You know, Judas was a big hit for Fossey right out of the gate. I remember we did three million views on YouTube like in the first week. It was like I couldn't believe it. Yeah. But then when we started playing it on TV, it went through the fucking roof. Like we got a gold record for Judas now with Faza. I'm sure, you know,

being on TV every week didn't hurt. But it was already a hit. But what prompted people to sing along with it? I don't know. I'm not sure, but you don't mess with it. You know, and then the crowning glory for that was when we were in Houston,

when MJF and I were doing our feud, which was exactly 360. 65 days. We're both very proud of that. It was a whole year that MGF Jericho's story. And the story that night was that Max had, if I wanted to get the match with him, I had to come to the ring with no song. So for the whole week,

we're kind of like, what, what are we going to do? Like, how do we, how do we do this? Like, are we going to have the words on the screen and maybe not film it? Or people are like, well, put lyrics under the chair. And finally, Tony and I were just like, you know what, when you go to a concert, you know when to sing. You don't pull out the lyrics or have a lyric sheet or like prompting you to do it. You just do it.

Yeah. So if they do it, then it's just going to be one of the coolest moments ever. And if they don't, then the evil heels plan worked. Yeah. Which is always good too. And I remember walking out, just walking out, wandering out into the stage. And within, I think, two bars, everybody was in sync. Because the first, do we start now? Do we start now?

It was a little bit off. And then everybody was singing. It was one of the coolest moments, maybe ever in wrestling of these people, just singing along to Judas with no music and no prompting. It was amazing. If I come to a Foszzi show, where are you playing Judas?

Is that the last song? Is that the encore song? Yeah, it used to be first in the set. Okay. Yeah, because I was like, yeah, let's just open with our biggest song because that's what everyone wants here to see. And then would you play it again later?

No, no. Okay. And it's funny because I talked to Neil Sean Journey did Don't Stop Believe and I think third in the set. And I was like, why do you do it so early in the set? And he's like, well, to get it over with. Like, what do you mean?

Because everyone's just fucking waiting for Don't Stop Believing. If we play it early, then people will be happy and then they can listen to all of our other huge songs that we have. Sure. But yeah, Judas is the final, is the last song. Probably always will be.

So as a fellow... Second last song. So as a fellow Canadian, I've always, you know, associated with you, I've always been like, yeah, Chris Jericho, fellow Canadian. I really became like in gracious, it to you, seeing you on off the record.

Remember that show in Canada with Michael Lansberg? Yeah, I was the only guy to ever host off the record besides Michael Lansberg. That's right. Off the record was like this before this was a thing. Yeah. So Michael Lansberg was just a great guy. On TSN.

TSN, great guy, great host. And what off the record was meant to be was a conversation between friends and a bar. And I remember the first time I did the show, he's like, listen, I'm not going to tell you what to say or not to say, but if everyone's agreeing with something, it's always good if someone disagrees just for the conversation piece. So I used to do that.

Like, anytime everyone was agree, because they'd just get, you know, a wrestler, a boxer and a singer, whoever was around and you'd debate different topics. Yeah, the topics of the day. Yeah, and I'd always go kind of against the grain. And Michael really liked that. So when he did a couple holidays and vacations, they asked me to fill in for him.

Actually, one time I think I did it for a whole week. But then he used to get really one-on-one inside wrestling interviews. He had Vince, he had Brett, he had me, whoever. Yeah, probably Rock and Steve, I know Triple H and all the guys. And he would get the real, the real stories before there was any YouTube or any behind the scenes. Interviews like you said, like we're doing or podcasts or whatever. He was kind of the pioneer of that. He did a great job with it too.

There's a clip of you that keeps coming up 20 years later. It's weird how that happens, right? Isn't that funny? It's weird how clips come up and then everybody's talking about it and then it'll go in, something else will come up. But go ahead. It's the one you're basically saying, yeah, I know, said it was fake, but it's not fake. And then you gave this great answer. I took great umbrage to him,

to the boss of our company calling it fake when that's one word. If you want to piss me off, it does get under my skin. There's two words that get under my skin from, from know-at-all wrestling fans. One is fake because there's really nothing fake about what we do. It's predetermined, like I said, and there's, you know, it's show business, but fake is not a good word. The other one is botch. He botched this. He botched that. She botched this. It's like, dude, there's no fucking such thing.

You're out there without a net, one take live. If something doesn't go the way you plant it, I've seen Wayne Greske go down the ice on a breakaway and miss the net. Is that a botch? Do people go, oh, he botched his breakaway? No, it's something that happens in the course of a live sporting event, right? So both those things bother me. But yeah, it's funny thinking back to off the record because it was always a blanche. last, you know, and then I think Vince at some point didn't want us to do it because he got mad at

Michael Landsberg for whatever. So, yeah, there was always kind of, you know, because once again, you fly too close to the sun and start giving away some secrets. He stirred the pot a lot, he didn't give a shit. That was during, a lot of, you know, WCW, WWWF stuff at the time. And he would have both on. That's, I think, what it was. And Vince wanted him to be exclusive. And he said, I'm not going to be exclusive. I think Vince pulled his guys. So then he just had WCW guys. And then the politics came into play. Around that same time, you were in the ring for a pretty scary moment when Triple H tore his quads.

What do you remember from that moment and that spot that was supposed to happen? So I think that match was voted the greatest match in Raw history for the first 10 years of Raw or something like that. First of all, the sad thing is it doesn't exist anymore because Benoit's in it. Wow.

But it was such a fucking great match in the crowd in San Jose, San Jose, which I think was, I don't want to get it wrong, people will jump on me. I think it was San Jose. And crowd was insane. And it was Jericho and Benoit versus Austin and Triple H.

And Steve and Tripp were the fucking heels. It was for the tag team titles. And we had this match going, the crowd was just biting on everything. And it was back in the old WWD trope at the time was like, one, two, someone pulls the referee out. The next referee runs down. One, two, you knock this referee out.

You hit this guy with the belt. You cover. The first ref comes back in. One, two, kick out, kick out, kick out. And I remember I had Steve in the walls of Jericho And Triple H was supposed to break it up And meanwhile the crowd was just like And I put him in the walls

And he came from behind to hit me And I remember like he hit me really light And I always Triple H&I did not like each other Back in those days But we always had great matches We're totally cool now We're friends at this point

But we always had great fucking matches I think because there was a rivalry between us. Like, fuck this guy. He's like, fuck that guy. He's not so good. Both of us were good. Really good. And so he hit me from behind, but it was very light.

And I was like, that's not like him. And then I saw him kind of fall down and roll out. And then there's a couple of things that happened. And then I end up on the floor. Steve and Chris are still in the ring. I'm supposed to go over to Triple H and put him in the walls of Jericho on the announced table. Yeah. And so I go out and he goes, he goes, I'm hurt.

I'm like, oh, he goes, I think I tore him. quad. I'm like, what do you want to do? He goes, it's the spot. I'm like, okay. So I put him in the walls. And if you watch, like, dude, the dude's a fucking beast. Because when you tear your quad, it rolls up like a, like a, like a window draped. Like, wow. So I'm putting him in this walls of Jericho and like I'm trying to keep his legs as straight as possible, but sure, it didn't feel good at all. Um, so we do that. And then he's got to go back in the ring again with the sledgehammer and hit, I think he's going to hit Benoit who's pinning Steve and Benoit moves and he hits Steve and then I do the moon salt and one, two, three.

He did everything. He didn't miss a spot. Wow. And then I remember afterwards it sucked because it was one of the greatest matches I've ever had and one, it doesn't exist anymore. And two, we couldn't celebrate it because we came into the back and it was just fucking panamonium because Triple H was hurt and everyone was somber because he knew he was going to be out for a long time.

And it was a drag because when you have a match like that, you want to sit back and go, boys, we did it. Like, what a match and have everyone come and give you your flowers. And, you know, we didn't get to do that. We didn't get to enjoy the match that we had just had, which was so great. But yeah, he carried through, man. I got nothing but respect for him for that. Around that same time, WrestleMania 18 was the first WrestleMania I ever went to because it was in Toronto.

Toronto, right? A lot of revisionist history around people thinking that your match shouldn't have been the main event. Was there any talk at that time of making Rock Hogan the last match? Here's full disclosure. I didn't think our match should have been the main event. How do you follow Rock and Hogan? Yeah, there were two matches after it. I mean, there was the buffer match and then ours, right?

The buffer match would be the match that was put in between the two main events of the show. But I was like, how can we compete with this? I mean, dude, this is huge. When Hogan came back, I don't think anybody expected he'd be as over as he was. Because Halk and WCW and Halk and WWF for two different fan bases. And Hulk and WWF is fucking Hulk Hogan. Like, dude, like, ah, it's Hogan against the Rock. Are you kidding me?

And Rock kind of played heel, but nobody gave a shit. It was just basically like having the two biggest teams in the Super Bowl. And you don't even care who wins. You just know it's going to be amazing. And if you watch that match with the sound off, it's not so great. You watch it with the sound on. It's one of the best matches you'll ever see. And I was like, I remember talking to Triple H.

He was like, dude. And he had said something on Off the record that really pissed me off. and I remember confronting him about that beforehand and it was kind of we were at odds already and I was like fuck man like you really want to go on after he's like it's the title it's the world title the world title should go on last

and in theory it should but guess what the world title match went on before stadium stampede in AEW because how do you follow stadium stampede you know what I mean? So I just I just knew that

we're going to get fucking blown away by this because people are going to go so crazy for it And our angle had steam, but it wasn't like Hogan and Rock. You know, it's just Tyson and Ali. If you're playing a video game of wrestling, that's probably the match you're going to choose at the time. So, yeah, I did not want to go on after, but we did. And I've never watched that match back. Really?

I've never watched it back ever. I didn't like it. I didn't feel it. I thought it was not good. It probably was better than I remember. But I just, just like, you know, for me, my main event match was versus Sean. at 19. Even though it wasn't the main event, it was one of the main events. A match is so good. Thanks, man. So that was kind of my retribution to myself where we had this match that was the

main event. And I still have the card at home where it's the main event of WrestleMania, Triple Age versus Chris Jericho. And it's in Canada. That's pretty cool. It's in Canada, yeah. But the next year was the one that's kind of, that's my, that's my WrestleMania moment, if you will. What's your favorite match from your time in WCW? It's funny because with the advent of Twitter, and we may mention these clips come up. You see these matches. Like there's so many fucking matches I have with Eddie Guerrero. And they'll show like two minutes or something.

It's just all these amazing highlights and moves. And it's like, oh, he was so good. And I was a good opponent for it, but I just wasn't over. It wasn't an over baby face. So the matches never really had a lot of reactions from the crowd. But they're so good. There's so many good ones. I think the one I had with Huventude Guerrero at Super Bowl for his mask was a really good one.

But to be honest with you, man, there is a fucking match. And if you guys get a chance to find it, it's the faces of fear who are Hakku and Barbarian versus Eddie Greo and Chris Jericho. And I think it's from San Francisco or Sacramento once again. You got to watch this match. It's fucking great. It's these two giant behemoth beasts against the two hot, young, small high flyers. And, man, there is so much. There's a move in that I still have never seen to this day.

And I still can't believe I took it to show when you're young and crazy. Barbarian throws me off the ropes. They both throw me off the ropes and then Haku stands behind Barbarian. Barbarian back drops me. So Haku catches me. So like backdrop, I land like this. So my face is down and my legs are in his face. And then he fucking muscles me up and power bombs me.

It's the crazy. Like, how in the hell did we do that? We didn't practice it. Wow. They were just so freaking. strong. Wow. But yeah, that's one of those ones that like if you had to ask me, what's your all-time favorite match? That one pops in my head because it's really good and you probably wouldn't expect it. But I had so many matches with Dimalenko and Chris Ben 1, 80 Guerrero and

Ramehisterio and Hove and 2 Guerrero, all those matches are good. But the one with Haku and Barbarian, just a little bit different. I think there's a lot of wrestlers now that owe a lot to you if they're under six feet or they only weigh 215 pounds or whatever. I feel like you intentionally didn't wrestle as a smaller guy. Is that something you made a point to do at the start of your career? Well, it's just the way I wrestled because I train in Calgary. So there's no small guys in Calgary, but he fucking works hard and fights.

If you look at anybody that came out of the Calgary system, anybody, there was always a little bit of an extra, you know, viciousness to you. And then starting in Japan so young, I was my first tour of Japan, I was 20 years old. You know, and they beat the fuck out of you there. And if you, the only way they haven't stopped you, beating the shit out of you is to beat them up back.

I remember my very first night in FMW, October of 1991, so I was 20 years old. First of all, I was there with Lance Storm, and he was so disappointed because we show up there. He's like, we're not even on the show tonight. I'm like, show tonight. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah, go look at the card. And so I looked at the card. I started at the bottom.

And then looking through like, fuck, we're not there. And I see the top. And it was like Oneida and a couple guys against Kleis and Runts, which is Chris. and Lance. And I said, that's us there, Kleiss and Runts. He was disappointed.

He couldn't read the names. I was disappointed because I didn't think we're on the show. And I was, we're in the fucking main event. So we're in the main event of this show. And FMW was known as being like a real brawling company before that was a thing, right? And what they would do is they would bring in martial arts guys.

So there was a guy that named Weta, who was a kickboxing champion. And he looked every ounce of it. Ears were fucked up. No front teeth. Just really ugly. Like, looks like he should have been on.

on the opposing team in Slapshot at the end, you know? And so he's out there and dude, this guy is just kicking the shit out of me. I was like, fuck, this guy's going to kill me. And I got so mad, and F&W, you can do whatever you wanted. He kicked me in the fucking face. I went to the floor. I grabbed a chair. I came in and I hit him as hard as I could over the head with the chair.

And I remember he looked at me, kind of like, why'd you do that? He couldn't speak in English, but he had that look on his face. And I was like, motherfucker you want to kick me in the fucking face again. I don't know how old this guy was. He could have been 30. could have been like 50 but he was very light with me after that and that's like oh okay so if someone starts taking advantage you just fucking beat them up back and they'll back off and so i always kind of had that into it as well and so yeah i never worked as a smaller guy because when i started back

in the states again especially in wcw into wb everybody was so big if you don't fight like a giant it's not going to look believable if i don't go in there with undertaker and kick his fucking ass dude's you know legit canes six foot eight six foot nine big show seven feet you know hunter six four steve is six four rock is six four i'm five foot eleven if i don't fight up to that level i'm not going to be working with those guys there's this great story of you legitimately getting in brock lesnar's face and i i can't believe that anyone would want to get in brockleser's face you just you didn't back down no the switch flipped and i was like fuck i don't care i remember just looking at him and it's like if he hits me i'm going to bite his nose off and he would have

killed me like thankfully we didn't get in a fight but that was my that up what's that who broke the fight off um a couple people tried to and we told both the fuck off and then finally Vince made us stop yeah he's gonna fire us yeah um yeah once again i mean it's just things that happen when you get worked up and and there's a long story behind it but i mean nothing but respect for brock but i remember thinking like he's gonna kill me but i'm gonna bite his fucking nose off. Like, that's what he's going to go home with. I'll be dead or in the hospital or a broken face. He's not going to have a nose. So, thankfully, did get broken up. How much long do you think you couldn't keep doing this? You know, it's funny when people ask me that because I never think

about stuff like that. You know, I told you earlier kind of my criteria for Chris Jericho and how, how I would want to continue and why I would want to continue. And like, you know, like I said, still able to have the best match in any given night and still contributing and helping the company and helping grow whatever company I'm with and helping to grow the careers of other guys, younger guys. So I don't know, man. Like I feel, feel great.

I mean, I think when I got into the 2010s, I started feeling really shady. And that's when yoga came up. That helped me a lot. DDP one. Yeah. Help me so much.

And then the 2020s, I lost a lot of weight. That kind of gave me more momentum. I lost about 30 pounds a couple years ago. So I just, you know, I don't really lift weights anymore. I just do kickboxing and bike riding because weights started to bother me. And like, why am I sitting here doing three sets of eight when I can barely get it up with my shoulders are fucked or whatever it is? So let's just not do that.

There's other ways to stay in shape. So I kind of want like I talk about reinventing myself in the ring. It's also reinventing myself. outside of the ring as well. AW started. There's no house shows. So there's a limited schedule. You know what I mean?

I mean, I think I've had 26 matches this year, which is probably a little bit more than usual. I think it was 22, 26. But fuck, W to B, you're doing four days a week, 50 weeks a year. You're doing 200 matches a year. Couldn't do that now. I know what I want to.

So I think as long as it continue to keep going the way they're going, there's really no end in sight. I mean, look at Sting. He's kind of the watermark of being 64 and still being awesome. Seriously. You know, I don't know if I'll be doing it. I'm 64, but I'm 53 now. And I'm still having a great time and feel great and think I'm doing some pretty good work.

Did you ever think you'd be 30 plus years in when you started? No. I remember thinking, I remember telling Lance that, like, I'll probably quit when I'm 29. You know, when I'm 30, I'll go do something else. You know, which is funny because you think about that. I remember seeing an interview with Mick Jagger who was like, yeah, you know, we'll probably do this into our 30s, like in 1963 and they're like in your 30s,

that'll never happen. And here they are. And that's another thing. You look at the stones at 80, still the biggest band in the world, you know, their tickets went on sale of the day and they added like five more stadium shows. Why?

Because they sold out all the other stadiums. Like, fucking hell. Those guys are inspirations so that, you know, Sting is an inspiration of these guys that can continue to still do great work. There's really no age limit to anything anymore. There's always ages out there.

once again talk about the Chris Jericho haters, you know, don't like the fact that I'm still doing it at this age. But to me, it's like there is no age. It's either, is it good or is it not good? And if it's good, I'll continue to do it. With everything you've done, you've done, what do you think you're most proud of, whether it's personally or professionally? I mean, professionally I'm most proud of the fact that, like, I got, had a dream and I accomplished it and not just one dream, but two dreams. And I think there's a lesson there. Like, you know, I say all the time, don't ever let somebody tell you that you can't do something because they're probably ones that have failed at what they wanted to do. You know, there's a lot of that as well.

There was such prejudice against Fazi when we first started because I was in the band. People weren't even listening to the music. They didn't care. Just Jericho's in the band. Must be shit. Did they just think it was a vanity project for you? They thought it was a vanity project. Yeah, exactly.

20-year vanity project. Yeah, well, you know, seven top ten songs and a gold record later. It's like, fuck, I think that's kind of been blown up the window. But you just got to stick to your guns, man, and do what you believe in, and do what. what you feel is right. And if you want to do something and you're good at it, then do it. Like if I said, okay, I want to be the center for the Lakers, probably not going to happen. A, because, you know, I'm a 5 foot 11.

Two, I'm not very good at basketball. You know, and there's people that have those dreams. And if that's your dream, go for it. I'm never going to say anything. But if you're saying, like, okay, I want to make it in acting or I want to be the host or I want to be a wrestler, I want to be a musician or I want to be a, you know, a fisherman or whatever it is you want to do, just go do it. listen to people that tell you you can't do it because it doesn't matter what they think.

It's like it doesn't matter that people don't like Fosier or don't like Chris Jericho. I'll never make them fans. So don't even worry about it. I'm worried about keeping my fans happy and making new ones. And the ones that don't like me, hey, thanks. If you're ever a fan of mine, appreciate it. If you were never a fan of mine, appreciate your opinion. But I'm not catering to you because I don't fucking care.

I had Lance on the show recently. He went to Wilford Laurier University and so did it. Oh, no kidding. Crazy, right? Talk about Canadian time. Lats was at Wilford Lurie when it was like a fucking volleyball. That's right, for like one year. Volleyball All-Star or something.

There's still a chance. He's like if Chris retires in the next few years, it's a chance for him to have started his career against me and end his career against me. Yeah, I had an idea. One the other day, not the other day, probably three or four months ago where I was like, hey, dude, on this date, we should go to the rent out the hall where we had our first match. and then have the exact same match again. Wow.

Like the same spots, the same everything. And I thought that kind of was interesting, but then once again, like, you know, the worst thing you could do is put an expiration date on your career.

Because if you feel like you're still want to do it, like remember the Scorpions went on a retirement tour like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something. It's like, why are you putting that much pressure on yourself? And they're like,

ah, we decided we didn't want to retire, we have too much fun. And just don't ever say that. Like, if you're going to do it, then do it. it. And for me, like, I'll never have the big retirement match and I don't hate that shit.

I'll just fucking disappear, man. And that'll be the best way to do it. So, Rick Flair's already retired like 14 times. Yeah, and then good for him. And he, that's, that's, that's up to him. You know, me, Kiss's last show is in Madison Square Arm this weekend. I remember going to a couple last kiss shows. But it's like, yeah, I mean, to me, uh, just, just do it and have fun with it. And if you, if you want to continue to do great things, then continue to do great things. Did you ever think CM Punk will be back in WWE? I mean, it doesn't surprise me. You know, I mean, that's the Vince attitude.

Like, if you can make money with somebody, then you bring them back. He brought back the NWO. He brought Bischoff in, you know, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's ultimate warrior. Yeah, and yeah, and Vince isn't in charge, but Triple H learned from Vince once again. And, you know, the fans, keeping the fans entertained and happy. I mean, look, he came back and it was the highest viewed, uh, social media segment that they've ever had.

So right out of the gate, it was a benefit to them. So it didn't surprise me. So first of all, you're the best. Thank you for making the time to do this. Thank you for. Behind the scenes, we waited outside on the street for a while. Thank you for your patience with that. And thank you for the interview that we did in 2019 when you signed with AEW, which, you know, I don't, you didn't realize that at the time.

But that was a really big thing for me. That's great, man. Well, once again, you've come a long way since the back of your, uh, It was your car. It was my car. It was a car you had taken from your home to Ocala. You're like, let's just do it.

My driver, he'll just walk around the car. Oh, that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't let you in my personal car. Of course. I luck that. No, yeah.

I was in the back seat at Chris Jericho's car. That just sounds weird. After being in the back of your tour bus six months before that. That's right. Yeah, you get around. Gratitude's such an important part of my life. So I end every interview with this question. I don't think I asked it of you before.

What are three things in your life that you're grateful for? as we sit here right now. You know, once again, it's like, I just think that I took a chance at a young age to do something that everyone said I couldn't do. And then once you can kind of figure out a way that you're making it work, then you kind of really become fearless,

you know what I mean? And you can just try anything that you wanna try. And I think I'm grateful for just having this attitude of just go for it, man, just do it. You know what I mean? Like, how much of that is... What have you got to lose? And I don't mean to go off on a tangent here,

but how much of that is watching your father be super successful at living his dream? Well, I think that's a lot of the reasons why I was able to do what I did, because he understood what it was like to leave town at a young age and follow this, you know, crazy dream. And he was always super supportive of that. So I never had to worry about getting any... I mean, my mom was a little bit confused about what I was doing at first, as most mothers would be. I would have told I was going to the circus to become a sword swallor.

She probably would have had the same attitude. But my dad knew it because he'd done it before. And it was like, I remember we went to the Hart Brothers camp. I went there in 1990 and we drove out the summer before 1989 just to check it out. And it was this fucking, if you guys saw, you think of the Hart dungeon, like, oh, my God, it must have been amazing. This year, it was a little kind of a shack behind a gas station in Okotokes, Alberta. and I remember walking in there

and I thought it was the greatest thing in the world but it was about the size of this studio and it had like newspaper clippings up on the wall and it was just Keith Hart was just sitting there and it was like that's where the school is like wow and then the next year they moved it to a bowling alley which was also quite funny but yeah but he supported me for that

it's like if this is what you want to do then you got to go for it and with my kids too I'm grateful for my three kids it's the same thing like whatever you guys want to do just do it but you got to give your all I don't care what it is, but you have to put all of your conviction and commitment into it. And if you do that, you're going to succeed.

Did we get three there? So you're grateful for your drive. Three kids. Yeah, drive. Three kids. Yeah. And just like I said, just being able to live my dream, man. I mean, I think if anybody, you know, how many people there are on the planet,

six billion people now, whatever it may be, if every person on Earth was able to say they live their dream, I think you'd have the greatest world ever. But I think most people don't get a chance to say that because I think a lot of people are just scared to give it a try. Because it's sacrifice, man. It's not easy to do any of these things. But if you put the time into it and sacrifice and do what you have to do, 90% of the time it pays off.

Every little kid has a dream. I just always wonder where that dream dies. Like every kid wants to be something bigger than they are. I think when you grow up and harsh realities hit you, that's where you have to sort of make different choices than you really thought, you know. You know, it's like if people say, what do you, if you had to choose one between wrestling and music, what would you do? And I always say, I don't have to choose.

You know, I can do both. So I think anybody can do that. But once again, it's like one of those things like I always say, even coming to A.W, like if we're standing on a skyscraper and I say, okay, dude, you now have the ability to fly. All you got to do is take the step off the top of the skyscraper. It's going to be the most terrifying step you've ever had. But when you fly, you'll be like, holy fuck. Like, why did I not do this earlier?

And I think any time you come to a crossroads in your life, it's that moment where you're on the skyscraper. But if you take that step and you can fly, it always takes you to greater heights. And I think, I think once again that most people have issues taking that step. But the ones that do always end up where they want to be. What a way to wrap this up. That's a good quote. Man, that was, we're going to clip that. Troy, you hear that?

Troy's my social media guy. I don't think I've ever used that before. That was really good. Great episode of the Chris and Chris show. Excellent, man. Thanks. And I've never met a Chris that I don't like. Chris family.

Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, I've never met a Chris I didn't like either until today. No, I met a guy outside named Chris. Oh, yeah. Try to rob me. Oh, see? There we go.

He kicked his ass. There we go. He found the one Chris that he doesn't like. I mean, I don't blame him. The guy tried to rob him. Look, with the career that Chris Jericho has had, and he's still having, right? Because he's still doing it. I'm always just shocked when people don't have him on their list of goats.

Because if he's not on that list, I would love to see what your criteria is for that list. I mean, you don't have to like Chris Jericho to respect everything that he has done and is still doing. Hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I did. Man, an hour with Chris Jericho. So good. Please take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening and share this out. Share this with a friend and tag us on social media so we can share it as well. He's at I am Jericho on Twitter. He's at Chris Jericho Fawzzi on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And I'll leave you with the words of Aristotle. A classic quote here, but so fitting to so much of what we talked about here. Choice, not chance, determines your destiny. Choice, not chance, determine. your destiny. What choices are you making today this week for the rest of the year? There's only a few weeks left in the year. I mean, you've got a chance here to make this the best year of your life. Choice, not chance, determines your destiny. Be great and be grateful. We will see you on the next one

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