Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chris Kirkpatrick on the untold story of NSYNC, getting dissed in an Eminem song, the possibility of a reunion

Episode Date: January 28, 2021

Chris Kirkpatrick from NSYNC chats with Chris Van Vliet from his home in Nashville, TN. He talks about how he formed NSYNC and found the other 4 members of the band, how they got discovered, going to college with Howie Dorough from the Backstreet Boys, being invited to audition for BSB, his first impressions when he met Justin Timberlake, how he felt being dissed by Eminem in the song "Without Me", the advice he has for K Pop band BTS, creating the song "Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays" and much more!For more info on Ruddy Lad go to https://ruddylad.com/ Support the show by supporting our sponsors! Get your energy back, sleep better, and block out the unhealthy effects of blue light with BLUblox. Get free shipping worldwide and 15% off by going to https://blublox.com/CVV or enter code CVV15 at checkout. If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Chris Van Vleet, and if it's your first time here, I'm an Emmy Award-winning TV host, obsessed with finding out what makes successful people so successful. And on each episode, we have in-depth conversations and reverse engineer the half, habits and techniques of the world's top athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, even boy band members. If they are the best at what they do, I want to get their insight so we can apply it to our own lives. And if we're talking about boy bands, NSYNC was and is still one of the biggest boy bands of all time. And whether you're an NSYN fan or not, you know so many of their songs. Bye, bye, bye, it's going to be me. And around the holidays, of course, Merry Christmas.

Happy Holidays. Love that song. And if it wasn't for Chris Kirkpatrick, the band wouldn't have existed. He talks about how he originally formed it with four other members. And this wasn't an overnight success by any means. It took years and years of hard work in every single aspect before they even got their first break. But it was so fascinating hearing about how he went to college with Howie from the Backstreet Boys. And that Howie told him about the auditions for Backstreet Boys. So in some alternate universe, Chris Kirkpatrick could have been a member of Backstreet Boys. He also talks about what it was like getting name dropped and dissed by Eminem in the song Without Me. And he talks about the advice that he has for BTS, who's just crushing it right now, the K-Pock band.

But at the heart of all of this is a story about determination, never giving up, and always betting on yourself. Take a screenshot, share this with someone who you know would love to hear this story. Tag me, I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Tag Chris Carpatrick. He is at IMC. Kirkpatrick. And hit subscribe on the podcast provider of your choice. And if that happens to be Apple, could I ask you to leave a rating and review?

Please, I will read one out on every single episode until we get to that goal of 2,000 reviews. And we're closing in on 1,700 now. So we're getting very close to that. This one's from Justin 824 who says, excellent. Chris always delivers top-notch content with his in-depth interviews of top performers, smart, in-depth questions, high energy, and dynamic conversation. Well, thank you so much, Justin. Appreciate that review.

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Now here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only, Chris Carpatrick. Always good to be talking to a fellow Chris. It's the Chris Club. It's the Chris Club. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I like the belt behind you. Thank you. It is the Chris Van Vleet Show belt here.

I'm a big wrestling fan. I like it. I like it. That's cool. I like everything that you have behind you. We're in your studio? Yeah, well, I wouldn't call it a studio. It's more like a writing room.

Since I moved to Nashville, we had to downgrade the studio to just like a writing room. I feel like in Nashville, everybody has some sort of room like what you're sitting in right now. Man, this is like the bare minimum in Nashville. Like this is like a driver's license here. If you don't have this, you can't get around here. But I actually just went to a studio yesterday. And it was just in this guy's basement in this random neighborhood. And I'm like, this is strange.

And I walked in and it was a full-blown studio. And I was like, man, there's probably like thousands of them around here. That's just like you said, like the barrier of entry in Nashville is you have to have something like this. you're signing your lease. They're like, so how big is your studio going to be? Yeah, right, exactly. Where are you going to put that studio and how much power do you need for that studio? I like that we're both rocking the Ruddy Ladd shirts here. These are so good. I got the doubling down one. I'm lucky. I get some of the really cool ones. Paul sends me some of the really cool ones as they, as they come out. And this is, I mean, I have, I've got everything here. I've got my mask. I've got hats. I've got

We've got the whole gamut. They're such a cool company. So people can find them online at Ruddy Lad. They were on like the Canadian version of Shark Tank, which is called Dragonsden. These are the most comfortable shirts I think I've ever worn. That's, you know, it's funny. I really don't want to say this out loud because I don't want Paul to hear this. But I actually, I don't wear them to support him as much as I wear them that I love the shirts.

I mean, they're just like, I can't even tell you how many shirts that I have. And those, my friends are like, dude, don't you wear that shirt all the time? And I'm like, no, I have a lot. They're different. I have a lot of different ones. So, but they are, I mean, but hands down, the most comfortable t-shirt I've ever worn. I agree. Whatever they're making these out of, I want all my shirts to be made out of this material.

Angel dust. That's it. That's it. It's straight out of angel dust. I can't believe that you turn 50 this year. Like, that's mind-blowing to me. Isn't that crazy? I mean, it's.

It's funny, I do a, I'm on cameo now and I do a lot of birthdays. And every time somebody's got like a zero, like a 30 or a 40 or a 50, those are the tough ones. Like those are the ones you're like, oh my God, like I'm old. You're up into the next tax bracket. But then once you get there, it's like, oh, thank God I got 10 years. So I'm going to be really old again, you know. So got to look at the bright side to it.

Who do you think feels older in this situation? You, because you're turning 50 this year, or NSYNC fans who are realizing that you're turning 50 this year? Probably in sync fans because, I mean, I've always feel the same that nothing phases me, nothing bothers me, but them going, oh my God, I used to like a guy that's 50 years old now. That's probably a little harder to swallow. Come on, they still like you. Well, of course they do.

Yeah. How couldn't you? That's true. If we take this back, Chris, what kind of music were you listening to before? before you were in NSYNC? I mean, I listen to everything. You know, there was, I went through phases. I went through my punk phase.

I went through my, like, pop rock phase. I went through my hip-hop phase. I went through my R&B phase. I went through my, you know, back then it was just rap phase. And classical, you know, everything from the Beatles, you know, to Mozart to the Indigo Girls to Michael Jackson, you know, it was all across the game. I think to generalize it, though, it's all pop music. Like, I like the real pop side of it.

Even the punk stuff I listened to, like, it was all like real poppy, like the clash, you know, the guys that had the really cool hooks. You know, so it was like, I've just always really loved pop music. There's something about, you know, the way pop music's arranged, you know, whether it's, you know, whether it's, you know, know, a hip hop track or, you know, a country music track, you know, there's, there's just really something. To me, pop music is really hooky and I love hooks. I feel like you ran the gamut there. You like named every single genre. Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. I mean, the only thing I miss was like Willie Nelson and Johnny Cash and, you know, that, but I just, you know, again, it's just pop music. Yeah, I think that people think when you live in Nashville, it's just country music. And

that's not the case at all. It's, it's just music in general there. It used to be a lot of, you know, mostly country music, but it's definitely changing. Even, I mean, the country's changing. You know, country music is very poppy now. There's, you know, some of the biggest artists on the planet are country music singers. And, you know, it's really, I've run into so many different kinds of people since I've been here. And I love the diversity of it. I love the fact that, you know, the music is there. And every day, if you go to a writing session, you could be writing with a guy doing a country song. And he's like, you know what? I was really, you know, into like, emo and stuff. And you're like, well, let's do that, you know. So it's like, you get the full gamut here

for sure. Do you remember what the first concert was that you went to growing up? That is so funny. You just asked me that because if I was downstairs, I would show you. We've been cleaning up we do a every month or every every year in January I take the entire month off of January for the most part and we do a big cleanse we do a you know no drinking really tight schedule on what we eat and and work out and then we clean the house like we start in one room and every day try to you know spick and span it's the oCD in my head that you know we have to clean all the rooms but I was going through um some memorabilia stuff. And I've got like this box of like, you know,

letters from my grandparents or Christmas cards from them or, you know, old in sync stuff that meant a lot. And I happened upon this little envelope and I opened it up and they were to, the two tickets that were to my very first concert that I ever went to. And it was Weird Al Yankovic opened up for the new monkeys. That was my first show. What year do you think this was? 1987 said so on the tickets wow so this is when weird al had fat that was probably his big song then right

yeah fat was big and he opened up for him too which was kind of crazy because yeah you know he had fat he had um man he had a yeah he had a yeah he had a lot of hits then like a surgeon remember like like i don't know if you ever heard like a surgeon i think i'm a clone now yeah i love weird Weird Al, he's still, he's still killing it, too. That's the best thing about that guy. Like, you know, growing up, it wasn't just like a kid thing, you know, like, oh, look, I'm going to say fart or, you know, I'm going to take the words and make him funny. You know, it really has a cool following.

And he's a hella accordion player. And his poca stuff that he does is so spot on. And, you know, I'm a really big Weird Al fan. And it was cool. That, you know, that was my, and of course, the new monkeys, too. you know, they were awesome. And that was still when Dave, it was Davey, Mike Nesmith,

and Mickey Dolans. Peter Tork wasn't with him. But, you know, getting to meet Mickey Dolans after that, too, and talk to him. And, you know, the monkeys were, monkeys were like the original boy band. Yeah.

It's weird out is like timeless. There's something about him. It's something about his music. It's just completely timeless. Yeah, for sure. And he can, He can do that today. You know, he's still taking music of today and turning it into his songs, and it's still really cool.

And the guy is, he's such an interesting character and just so fun to watch. And, you know, and I follow him on social medias and stuff. And just, you know, hearing his perspective on things, it keeps, it's great to see somebody that got his age and is still, you know, eight years old in his mind. Yeah. I love hearing up. that you are about music because I think, unfortunately, people look at guys in a boy band and they go, ah, they were just good-looking guys thrown together. We taught them how to sing. We taught them how to dance. But no, you've been passionate about music since you were a kid.

Well, you know, I still get the, he's just a good-looking face all the time. And, you know, that's tough. You know, I want to be more than just a beautiful human being. You know, I want to be I'm just kidding. No, I've, I just, you know, music has been part of, my life, you know, since I was born, you know, it really, it's a part of everybody's life, you know, of course, but, you know, I just always was drawn towards it and always drawn towards, you know, bands and musicians and artists and different things. I mean, I, you know, I remember really getting into a band called Lady Smith Black Mombazu, and that's what got me into writing harmonies and doing that because it was this African music that was just,

You know, I mean, they sang every part and they didn't need instruments because, you know, there were melodies and things going on that you could hear and it was just so amazing. And so that, nothing, nothing feels better to me than hearing a brand new song that you haven't heard yet and wanting to keep playing it over and over and over. And there's songs that I listen to now that used to be that song and I'm like, oh, man, that song again. But when it first comes out, that feeling of, you know, it's just so up in the air and seeing what the artist did with melodies and harmonies and bridges and verses and all these things that they throw into the songs. You know, you listen to it. You know, the one that just did it for me was Royal and the Serpent. I don't know if you've heard of her yet. It's cool because, like, I always like, you know, finding new artists and, you know,

listening to them. You know, there was a time, there was like lemon twigs. There were some bands that I really got into that, you know, it doesn't matter to me if they don't blow up. It's the songs and it's the artist. And I love attaching myself to those songs and that music.

And that's kind of, you know, how music is. And that's kind of what helped our popularity is, you know, kids love to attach themselves to those songs. And, or, you know, us as people or the combination. And it also brings you to a time of your life. I mean,

I'm sure there's times where you'll hear a song and right away, you'll go right back to where you were like 20 years ago or 10 years ago. And it's so vivid you can almost taste it. And it's nothing beats that feeling. I'm getting goosebumps like as you talk about that. You know what one of those songs is for me. I had one of my very first slow dances ever to this I promise you. Oh, really? Yeah. We were in my high. school. It was a high school dance at my high school. We were in my cafeteria, we called it. And yeah, this I promise you. That's awesome. And it's amazing, you know, to me looking back on, you know, and I talk to, kids will come up to me all the time or fans come up. And if they talk about

something there, you know, I've had kids coming up and they're like, man, you just don't understand what you meant to me or what you did, you know, what your band did for me, whatever. And I'm like, I do. I really do. You know, I'm not just like saying, okay, whatever. I'm saying I was there too. You know, I've had those, there's been bands in my life that have done that for me. And I feel it's almost like, like social media. It's almost like Instagram or Twitter where you start following somebody on those social medias and you're seeing there every day. And suddenly you see them and you're like, oh, I wonder where they're best friends so and so or their kids so and so. so is, or if they're driving that car that you feel like you really know them and are a part of them. And that's what music is. Yeah. At what point in your life did you realize that music could in fact be your career? Oh, man. I never realized, I never thought it could until it was. So it would have to be the realization of, you know, the band hearing ourselves on the radio for the first time or, you know, because I mean, I've done paid gigs.

where I used to sing Duwop at Universal Studios. I used to sing in a caroling company where we'd go around dressed in caroling outfits and that type of deal. And I'd play like coffee shops with a buddy of mine. And there was a lot, you know, a lot of little gigs here and there that I did musically. But it probably wasn't until we heard our song on the radio, you know, as in sync that, you know, I was like, oh, my God. I don't have to go back to work as a waiter anymore.

I can actually do this for a living. You know, that was probably that moment. So you were working at Universal Studios, but your job there was to be a singer? Man, I was working at Universal Studios. I worked at SeaWorld. I worked at Outback Steakhouse. And I was a school full-time.

I had three jobs, three jobs, and full-time school. And trying to juggle the band. Because I started the band, When I started the band, it was, boy, I couldn't even tell you the first carnation. I think it was me, this kid Charlie, this kid John. It might have been Raul and Brody. And those were the hardest days because, you know, like I said, three jobs, full-time school. And then having to come home at like, we'd have like 9 o'clock, 10 o'clock at night band practices

and trying to arrange all this music for us to, you know, to work on that night. And it was like, luckily I was young and I just never slept. Now doing that, I would probably have maybe one part-time job, one online class, and then call in once a week for vocal practice for a half hour because I'm old. What kind of band was it that you had at that time? It was the incarnation of Insync. It was the name wasn't in sync and the guys weren't in sync, but, you know, it was five, five-part harmonies. You know, we had, we had some of the best singers.

Two of those guys went on to be to start up C-note. I don't know if you remember the band C-note. Yeah. And, you know, it was just, it was some of the guys had worked with me at Universal. And it was crazy for about maybe two, three years. Guys would come and go and, you know, guys would be in the band for a while, and then they'd be like, ah, I can't do it anymore, which totally I understood because, you know, we weren't going anywhere first of all, but second of all, you know, it was hard to keep up those hours along with, you know,

doing everything that everybody was doing. I guess I just, I didn't, I didn't want to give up, you know, I didn't want to stop, to let my dream. I knew that there was something there, and I knew we had a good power behind us, even though he, you know, he was. He was not the straightest shooter in Lou Pearlman. And so I just kind of, I worked as hard as I could to make it happen. You were friends with, our friends with, but growing up, you were friends with a lot of the guys in Backstreet Boys. How close were you to being a member of Backstreet Boys?

I don't think I was ever really that close. You know, there was, I remember, I was mostly, I was closest with Howie. Like, I knew Howie, we went to school together. We were actually started college together. And we were in choir together. And I remember when he was in the, when he started being in the Backstreet Boys, and he came in and he was like looking for guys

to be in the Backstreet Boys. And at the time, I was like, I'm not going to do that stupid thing. You guys sing the tracks and tapes. I'm like, because I had a quartet in the class. And I was like, we do everything Acapello. Like ours is all five-part harmony. We don't need tracks behind.

us. And, you know, I remember him bringing in his first head shot, which I think I have a picture of somewhere. And then, you know, at the time, I think it was only him, AJ, and Nick were the only three that are still in it now. But I've always been close with those guys. You know, there was a time, of course, with the bands blowing up and everything where, you know, a couple feathers got ruffled in between some of the band guys. Mostly it was me and AJ, but, you know, and then, you know, once we cleared everything up, it's like, now I consider AJ a really close friend. I've always considered Howie and Nick close friends. So, you know, it was cool to, uh, to see them blow up and us blow up at the same time. But the crazy thing about NSYNC is if it wasn't for Backstreet

boys having their success, Lou Pearlman wouldn't have wanted to create NSYNC, which is kind of crazy to think about. Yeah, I don't, I mean, I don't know if that's the exact case. Because the way I what was always brought to us was, you know, he wanted to have a two-headed monster. And I think he also wanted to have a backup plan, you know, just in case, you know, if they didn't blow up, that he would have another one waiting in the wings ready to go. But it was, those times were really kind of tough because we were really hated. Like, there was a lot of people. Like, there was a lot of people that held a lot of things against us. And the only people on our side were Lou and his right-hand man that worked in his company. Everybody else in his company, you know, wanted us gone

because they'd formed such a tight bond with the backstreet boys that, you know, they're like, they just felt like they needed to be loyal to them. So being loyal to them meant, you know, kind of treating us like dirt, which in the long run really helped us because we all. always had to fight. We always had to scrap. And, you know, we always had to work 10 times harder than the guys next to us to, you know, just be at the same level. Yeah. At what point do you think the tide started to turn? I mean, you talk about NSYNC being hated. When did things start to shift? With the company? No, no, with the perception from, I mean, fans too, right? Well, the fans, it never really was a fan thing. The only thing with fans is, you know, it was the rivalry. You know,

And there's a meme out there that's funny when talking about politics, they're like kids, kids in the old days will never know what it's like to have such a rivalry. And then it's a picture of us in backstream. It's like to hold my beer or something like that. But, you know, the only fan stuff happened when it became not cool. You had to choose. I mean, it was either you were an in sync fan or you were a Backstreet boys fan. And, you know, and luckily there were enough people in the world to choose them and choose us. And, you know, very, maybe five percenters in between.

But there was, you know, that was definitely when the choice happened more of when we started to blow up. Do you think there was one specific song that really started to take off that, you know, really fueled that momentum for you guys? I don't know about one specific song, maybe a show. There was a, when we did the Disney special, that's what really blew up for us. I mean, you know, we couldn't get arrested in the States. And then we did the Disney special. And next thing you know, kids were running up to us left and right. We're like, wait, you know who we are?

And so I think that was more of a moment than a song because the songs were all you know, they were all different, especially with Backstreet. You know, I always felt like there was a, there was a definite difference in, in the two bands. I mean, the bands looked alike, but that's about as far as it went, you know, our style was a lot different than their style. It was like, Backstreet was going to play that Disney show, weren't that? Yeah, yeah, they turned it down. This is the whole thing about like everything in life happens for a reason.

Can you imagine if actually played that and you guys didn't have the opportunity to? Yeah, who knows? I mean, who knows? Maybe I couldn't even speculate because that really, you know, blew us up. And I'm sure there were probably people in their camp going, oh, all we had to do is play that show. We would have never heard of those guys. Do you remember the first time that you guys got recognized? Yeah, we in the States because it was.

It was a really weird transition because we started in Europe. And, you know, we started in Europe and had got okay in Europe. But, you know, even our first year or two in Europe, it was, it was always kids would come to our show and they would be like, hey, we're only here because the backstreet boys aren't in town and we're just going to go see you. You know, so I'm telling you, it was, it was tough. We had a lot of those moments. but in the States it was out right at like the week

maybe the day the Disney special aired and we were getting on a plane in I want to say I think it was Los Angeles and I think we were flying over to Europe or something and as we were getting on the plane there was this little girl that was like

hey mom that's those guys that's in sync and we all like stop like what and look back at her and then went running back Hey, how you doing? We're the band. Nice to meet you. You know, from there, just next time we came in a town, or next time we came back to the States, it was just everywhere. I would imagine you were pretty recognizable at that time, you know, with the big braids, the big hair that you had.

Yeah, I stuck out a little bit. I mean, that was a little bit. Yeah, that was, I was like Shaq trying to walk into someplace with those braids. It was not sneaking around. Like, I couldn't really wear a disguise and hide the braids. But luckily I'm a lot more low-key now. So now I'm the guy that used to be the one with the hair. What was the idea behind that hair? I don't know.

Honestly, I don't know. I just like to be different. I was a big fan of like Buster Rhymes and all this. And I knew I couldn't grow dreads without them, you know, being like white guy, hippie, nasty dreads. So, you know, I went with braids and I was in, we were in London, I went and I'm like, you know, I'm just going to go get this done. I was a couple ladies that worked at this shop. They're like, come on, we'll do it.

And I came back and the guys were like, what the hell is going on? And I'm like, yeah, deal with it, dude. How long, like, in total, did you have that hair for? It wasn't that long. Yeah, I don't think it was that long, but I feel like it's like synonymous. with that early look that you had? Yeah, I think maybe two years or so. It really wasn't that long.

It was really hard to keep up. And I'm a guy that likes to, you know, wake up and 10 minutes later, I'm in my car driving to wherever I need to go without having to, you know, groom myself too much, you know, other than put on deodorant and whatever I need to put clean underwear. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Is there something interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist.

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Visit betterhelp.com slash insight. That's betterhelp-help-com slash insight and join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. In fact, so many people have been using BetterHelp that they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states. a special offer for anybody listening to Insight right now is 10% off your first month. Just go to BetterHelp.com slash insight. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash insight. You guys are so often looked at as being an overnight success. And I guess the Disney

show really helped. But how much work was going into it in the years prior to that? Well, there's definitely, you know, you realize that there's no such thing as an overnight success. Even the, even one hit wonders or people like that, there's a lot of work that goes into that. And we were in Europe for a couple years before we'd even come over here. And we'd been, you know, again, going through the ringer. I mean, we were doing shows. We were doing, you know, radio shows over there where we tour for, you know, a month straight. And it was shows every night and all these other.

bands and we weren't a very popular band. So we got like a little tiny dressing room and, you know, had a little closet sometimes and we'd go on like as soon as the show started. And, you know, again, all this stuff that I'm talking about is I wouldn't change it for anything because it really, it hardened us up and it made us, you know, it made us perfect our craft. It made us say, all right, well, when we blow up, we're going to be ready. Like, we're going to have everything down. We've, we've had stuff thrown at us on stage. We know how to, you know, deal with any type of circumstances there is. So, you know, we were, it definitely prepared us for what happened over here. You had stuff thrown at you on stage starting out. And then, you know,

as things progressed, you were then having like bras thrown at you on stage. Yeah, it was still stuffed. It was just stuffed animals and, you know, panties and bras and not so much panties and bras. They were, we were, they were, they were, our fan base was pretty young. So there wasn't, you know, as crazy as it sounds, there wasn't a lot of that insanity going on. Later on, there was. Right. When this started out for you guys, was there any guarantee of any sort of success? Oh, no. No, definitely not. I mean, there was no guarantee at all. In fact, you know, we were just, we were enjoying every second of what we were doing, not knowing if we would be doing it the next day or the next week. And, you know, we, in your head, you're thinking that, oh, we're going to be huge.

But, you know, in reality, you're also thinking that, all right, this is so much fun right now. You know, I definitely want to stay in the music business if this doesn't, you know, end up working. But the chemistry between us is what held us all together, I think. Yeah, great chemistry between you guys. And it's so interesting when you list off the original people that you were starting to form this bandwidth. Yeah. How did you find everyone? that ended up being the final members of NSYNC?

So, you know, like I said, guys would quit and guys would get kicked out or, you know, they didn't have the right attitude and they'd come in late or certain things like that. So, you know, Lou, Lou was always in my ear saying, okay, this guy, we need to get rid of him. And I'm like, then kick him out. Like, this is my band. You're going to have to, you know. So Lou would say, well, if you want this band, then you're going to keep. kick him out. So, you know, he kind of put ultimatums on me with some of the guys.

And, you know, which is, which is shocking because looking back, everybody that had ever been in a band that I was in, you know, before that was leading up to the in sync thing, including the in sync guys, were better guys than I was. And here I was like, you know, still holding on. Like, I'm like, I would have been the first guy kicked off this island if, if I wasn't, you know, if I didn't start it and wasn't in Luz-Zer all the time. So how did you, like, can we go through each individual guy? Like, how did you, how did you line them all on? I don't even, I couldn't even remember each individual guy.

I mean, like I said, there was me, John, I know John Rodriguez, who's in our city now. He's in a band and he's doing amazing. And his brother is Luis Fonzie. Oh, no way. Yeah, that did Despacito, which is randomly how I met Joey, you know, because Joey and I worked at Universal. And then Fonzie was in his acapella group and John was in my aquepa group. And but then it was Charlie Edwards. But guys like Justin or J.C., did they audition for the band or did you know them?

No, no, no, no, no, no. No, I mean, I found them. It was never really an audition process. I went out looking everywhere. You know, I went back to my old choir. I went to, I'd go to karaoke places. I'd just go, you know, I'd look in the papers. And, yeah, so it was me.

And it started out with this kid, Charlie Edwards. And he was the one that was, he was in choir with me and Howie. And Howie had actually asked Charlie to be in the Backstreet Boys. So Charlie was in that first picture of the Backstreet Boys. boys and then Charlie had a falling out with a producer, I thanked and quit and then called me and said, hey, you know, Lou wants to put together another band, you know, can you work your magic like you did with the acapella groups of school? And I'm like, oh yeah, I can work my magic. And, you know, him and I were in it for a while. And then, you know, again, and I don't even like to say

they quit because I don't want people to think that, you know, it was like, wow, what an idiot or how stupid, but you have to understand, you know, the hours we were putting into it. And there was, there was no light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, it was just, it was just work, work, work. And if, if you really, really want to do it, then, you know, you're going to have to work and not see anything from it and just keep working. Yeah. So, you know, he was in it for a while.

And then, you know, again, Raul and Brody, a buddy mine, Ryan that I'd met on from High Tones, in it from when I worked at Universal. And then it pretty much dropped down to basically almost me again. And that's when I went out and I was like, all right, I'm going to

look and I looked up 19 agents that had kids that sang or whatever. And I only got one call back and it was this guy and I went to his office and he gave me this envelope and I looked and I'm in my car and I pop in this

cassette tape and it was Justin. And I was like, oh my God, this little kid can sing his nuts off. And, you know, called Justin and Justin said, he's sure he'd be willing to, you know, try it out. And when he was coming down to back to Orlando to start the group, he also said, I've got this other kid, J.C. So he brought J.C. in. And then it was me, Justin, and J.C. And then that weekend, we'd been working and doing all this stuff and they had to go back home for a minute. And the day before they left, we'd run into Joey at this club. And we said, hey, what about this guy? And so we got Joey in. And then the four of us actually, actually then Joey brought in this kid, Jason. And that's, we were a band for about maybe a year. And that's how we got the name in sync because it was the last letter of all of our

first names. It was Justin with the N, Chris with the S, Joey, with the Y, Jason with the other end, and J.C. with the C. So that's how we got in sync. And then the day before we signed our little record contract or whatever it was with Lou, he just wasn't feeling it. He's like, I don't, you know, this isn't my thing. I don't really, you know, I'm not into this. And, you know, to this day, he still says, you know, just wasn't my scene. He goes, I'm bummed that, you know, you guys blew up and I wasn't a part of it, but it just wasn't my thing. So, you know, then about maybe a year. year and a half later, maybe two years later, we found Lance.

So did you still sign with Lou, even though Jason dropped out? Yep, yep. Me, Joey, Jacey, and Justin all signed with Lou. And you were just a four-piece band at that point? Yep, we were in sick. Why did you feel that you needed a fifth member then? Because we didn't have a bass. We didn't have a bass. And we were really key on the acapella stuff.

Like we worked, our vocal producer and arranger was Robin Wiley. And she had all these amazing, amazing, you know, songs that she was, you know, teaching us. But they were all, they were all very, you know, trouble heavy. And we needed that bass, you know, in there. So that's, we always knew we were, we weren't complete yet, you know, even when the four of us were, you know, rehearsing and rehearsed and we knew we weren't complete until we had that bass. Do you realize that you, you know, really made it when you become an M&M lyric? Yeah, yeah.

Either you really made it or now you've got beef with somebody that, you know, you look up to and, you're like, what the, what happened here? I was like, and at first I was kind of freaked out. And then, you know, of course, nowadays, I think it's amazing because that song is one of my favorite songs and then to have my name in it too it's just like I did something right or wrong when did you first find out about that uh we were in Miami I think we were doing a show in Miami we were on the bus coming back up to Orlando and we were on the bus and I started getting all these uh my I think I think I even had a no it wasn't a page or I think I was getting text messages

and everybody was like yo if you heard them new M&M song he makes fun of you in it and I'm like yeah, well, we always does, and sync rhymes with everything, you know, and they're like, no, you. I'm like, what do you mean me? They're like, Chris Kirkpatrick. I'm like, he says Chris Kirkpatrick in a song, what the hell rhymes with Chris Kirkpatrick? And then I heard Get Your Ass kicked. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I guess that does rhyme. Did you ever talk to Eminem after that? Not really. Yeah, I guess you guys would cross paths a lot. You'd be at the same award shows. Yeah, we did. I never got a chance to. I mean, to me, it's, you know, it's kind of the ultimate flattery because, like I said, I, I worship, like Eminem is, you know, one of my favorite artists. And I've always been a big fan.

And it was just, you know, to be in the song, you know, whether or not he wants to kick my ass, that's fine. But to be in the song was just like, like, if he really hates me, then he did the absolute opposite of what he should have done to, you know, to get me, get me back. Were you like, why me? There's five of us in this group. Like, why do you think I think I had to, I had to like retrace my steps and figure out why he picked me out. And I think, um, the only thing I can remember is that, uh, Joey and I were hosting TRL and I knew TRL, that's when TRL was in its heyday. And I think we were talking about him. And I said something about, um, how, he was like the crocodile hunter.

Like he liked the controversy. He liked to get in, you know, with the crocodiles. And that's why people listen to him. You know, whereas, you know, in my mind, I was thinking, and he's got great music. But, you know, he probably took it as I was just saying that the only reason he's popular is because he's controversial. Yeah.

When you guys were at your absolute peak of your fame, who were some of the people that you, or let's put it this way. Who was someone that you got to meet that you were like, I can't believe we are meeting so and so? Oh my God. That list is too long to go on. I mean, we were so blessed to meet, you know, some of the most amazing, you know, and to me it was mostly musicians, you know, anybody and everybody. And, you know, there were a lot of athletes, too, that we got to meet and all this stuff. But, you know, I think it was the musicians to me that really, you know, I mean, Stevie Wonder playing harmonica. on one of our tracks, Paul McCartney, doing a song with Phil Collins,

Gloria Stephan, you know, there's so many, just so many people that, you know, I looked up to, you know, I got to meet,

when I was talking earlier about the Indigo Girls, I got to meet them, and, you know, they were such a big influence on me writing harmonies as well. And, you know, it was just,

Lenny Kravitz. It was, it was anybody in the business, it was, it was awesome. I mean, I couldn't, Michael Jackson, you know, getting to be on stage with Michael was amazing. And, you know, Kenny Rogers and just all the, all the people like, you know, reaching out and touching them or shaking their hand or giving them a hug and saying, this is actually a real person. Like, that's how big they were in my mind that, you know, they were a God. And here

they are like, wow, real people. And are they treating you on that same level? Are they going, yeah, these kids have only been around for a cup of coffee. No, I mean, everybody was real respectful, you know. I mean, I think in the music business, everybody gets it. Everybody understands, you know, that, you know, it's not just, you know, you kind of know who really loves what they're doing and loves the music side of it, you know, and musicians really are open because there's really no competition, you know, like even when I hear a word show,

it always kind of rubs me weird that, you know, you're giving an award to the best rock album of the year or whatever. And I'm like, by whose standards, you know, or how do you, you know, judge that that's the best rock album? Like, you people right here just voted for the masses. And it's like, you know, I think that, you know, listening to music, there's, that's what I love about pop music. And that's what I love about music is you always find, like, I listen to whatever. ever's big. I mean, there's a lot of stuff out right now that it'll come on and I'm just like, oh my God, what are, what is being played right now? Sounding like an old guy. But then, you know, then I always give it a chance and I always listen to it because it's, it's being played because

there are a lot of people that like it. Now, I just have to find out what it is about that that they like, whether it's a story, whether it's a melody, you know, whether it's the voice, you know, whatever it is, if the person's a good-looking person and they just like them and they're like, yeah, and they can also stay on key. Yeah. But I just try to find everything in all music. So, you know, being able to, you know, meet those musicians especially and, you know, being sometimes on stage with them or whatever was just amazing.

You know, when we go back to you talking about finding Justin Timberlake, you're kind of, you're kind of responsible for him be, you know, you kind of discover. covered him in a way. Okay. Now, people that know Justin Timberlake know that I'm just the first person that said, hey, you know, this guy's good. And I wasn't even the first because he was on the Mickey Mouse Club before that. And they'd known that. Right. You know, so Justin, Justin would still be Justin, you know, regardless of what, you know, I've ever done for him or anything like that. But, you know, it was, it's really cool for me to have seen him and, you know, have a little brother like that at such a young age and now see him, you know, where he is and just think, you know, that he's like my kid brother, you know, and he's, you know, huge. So he's what, like 14 when you first meet him?

Yeah, he was probably, he must have been about 13, 14. And you saw in him what we all see in Justin now? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, you can hear it. I mean, you know, you could hear it in his voice. Yeah, I mean, he's incredibly talented. I've had the, I've had the opportunity of interviewing him, but what he's done beyond music is pretty amazing too. He's a good kid. He's a good kid. I wonder when you go into this, do you realize that this is something that is going to just exist for a finite amount of time? Or do you go, you know, this is going to last forever? I don't think we ever had a term limit on it.

You know, there was never, you know, I think once it hit, I knew I was always, like now, I knew I was always going to be the guy from in sync or whatever. But, you know, as of how big we would be for how long, you know, we had no idea. I mean, it was just, again, we were just doing what we loved and happy to be doing it. Every Christmas, I put on Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, far too many times. In fact, I worked at a radio station before moving here. And during Christmas time, it was all Christmas music all the time. It's a higher radio station went to Christmas music.

And I would make requests so that I could play that song on the radio because it's my favorite current Christmas song. It's a really good Christmas song. And J.C. had a lot to do with that, too. So it was cool to have a song that is a new song, but it's still traditional. And now it's become traditional. And that's, you know, Christmas time I get the most phone calls and text messages that I, during the year for sure.

And then a few months later, do like larger residual checks start to come in because of that music being played over Christmas? Um, maybe, I'm sure. I don't know. Could be. Is that not how it works? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure. I don't ever, you know, that's, I'm, I don't ever pay attention to residuals or,

you know, all that stuff. That goes straight to some guy that, you know, takes care of my money and does all that. I worry about my next gig or how I'm feeding my kid. Is there a song, an in-sync song that you wish you guys played on tour more often than you did? No. No, they were, I think all the songs I love, we did a lot. I mean, we did them multiple, multiple, time. So, you know, there's none, none really. I mean, you know, we got to do pretty much all the ones. Maybe that's not true. The song we did for the Tarzan soundtrack, Trash in the Camp, was a really fun song to do. And I actually did it with Joey a couple years ago at Epcot when we did a show together at Epcot. We did that song. And that was, it's so much fun. And it's fun to sing.

I'm not sure where this one's going to go, but do you think there's an NSYNC song that could possibly help get us through this strange time that we're going through right now with COVID? Yeah, hopefully bye-bye-bye to COVID is what I'm like, that's the closest I got. You know, there's a, or maybe we had a song called It Makes Me Ill. That could be, I don't know if that's, that would get us through us, but it's apropos for COVID, I guess. I'd say that's very fitting. What do you think is the biggest life lesson that you learned from that time in your life that you now continue to have now?

I think the biggest thing is, you know, is treating people with kindness and treating them, you know, no matter who they are, like, you know, don't ever look over somebody's person because you don't think they can help you out. you know, always give everyone the benefit of the doubt. And, you know, everybody's got really cool stories and everybody's got reasons for the way they act, the way they do. And, you know, it's kind of like I said with the music, it's finding that in each person and finding what it is that what makes that person tick or why they're annoying about this or why they're really cool about this and and respecting people and understanding that, you know, where you meet them could be a time in their life and not who they are. What kind of advice do you have for like boy bands right now? Like a BTS who's blowing up right now and this is their moment. You know, to me it was the advice that we always took and, you know, enjoy it.

Enjoy every second of it, you know, because it could go on for the rest of your lives, but it could stop tomorrow. and you want to make sure that you've got the most out of, you know, everything you've done and the fun you've had with it. And, you know, always, always look to the next adventure. I've enjoyed this, Chris, this has been great. And I think that before we wrap this up, I think I have to ask because I think people will be wondering, what are the odds that we would see NSYNC get back together for some sort of reunion? I mean, that's the million dollar question. I don't, you know, it's, it's,

Could happen. It might not happen. I don't see the five of us never doing anything again, you know, not saying we'll be a band again and go on tour, but, you know, who knows, maybe we'll pop up somewhere at an award show again or, you know, do something. I mean, there's, there may be times where we could do something, but there's nothing really in the works. And I end every interview by talking about gratitude, because I think that if you can be grateful, then you could live a great life. So I want to know, Chris, what are three things that you're grateful for in your life right now? That would definitely be my family, my friends, and, you know, the fact that I got to do something

that I always dreamed of doing. Like, I got to fulfill a dream, you know, a huge dream of mine. And, you know, now I just live the dream. As people say, I'm living the dream. You're awesome. I really appreciate you, Chris. Thank you so much. No problem, Chris.

What a great conversation. Big thank you to Chris Kirkpatrick for this. A big thank you to you as well for hanging out with us for this conversation. And that's just a story about chasing after your passion and making your passion your life. The fact that he was hustling, working three jobs before NSYNC hit, really speaks to his work ethic. Also, a huge thank you to Paul, who owns Ruddy Lad, the clothing company we were talking about. out for connecting me and Chris together for this interview. You can check out their insanely comfortable t-shirts at ruddylad.com. That's R-U-D-D-D-Y-L-A-D-Ruddy-Lad.com. And I'm sure you know an

NSYNC fan, so share this with someone who you know would love to hear this conversation, because there is so much insight here. And I'm not afraid to admit it. Yeah, I'm not afraid to admit that I was an NSIG fan. And I learned so much in this. but I was just so inspired by hearing both Chris's and the band's determination. People were dropping out of the band, left and right, and he just stayed the course, and he knew that this was going to lead somewhere. And look where it led them.

And one of the biggest boy bands of all time. Record-breaking, record-breaking band. And as the legendary Babe Ruth once said, it's hard to beat a person who never gives up. Are you that person? I know you're that person. Be great. Be grateful.

We'll see on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Barley. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.