Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Chris Sabin: Motor City Machine Guns reunion, AJ Styles "didn't like me at first", X Division matches

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

Chris Sabin sits down with Chris Van Vliet from his home just outside of Detroit, MI. He talks about the Motor City Machine Guns getting back together at Slammiversary, what it took to get Alex Shelley to agree to return to Impact Wrestling, their favorite tag teams to wrestle, recovering from his third knee surgery, why he thought he wasn't ready when he won the TNA World Heavyweight Championship, the fact that AJ Styles didn't like him at first, how unpredictable the Ultimate X structure was during the first match and much more!  Please support the show by supporting our sponsors: DIRECTV NFL SUNDAY TICKET - Get 15% off your subscription this season at http://NFLSundayTicket.tv DEAL DASH- Get an extra 100 Free Bids upon signup by using the code CVVSHOW at https://dealdash.fm/CVVSHOWBETONLINE- Head tohttp://betonline.ag and use the promo code BLUEWIRE for your free welcome bonus! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's a great question. Look at you, man. With the powerful questions. This is the Chris Van Vlead Show. Chris Van Bleach Show. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris All right, here we go. Welcome back to another audio adventure on the Chris Van Fleet Show.

Although today, today it's the Chris and Chris show as we go one-on-one with one half of the Motor City Machine Guns, Chris Sabin. This episode is brought to you by DirecTV NFL Sunday ticket, deal dash, and bet online. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Tag me, I'm at Chris Van Fleet. By the way, did you see the new profile photo with the blue background? Oh, juicy. Tag my fellow Chris. He is at Super Chris Sabin.

And a lot of people know Chris Sabin as part of the Motor City Machine Guns. And it was so great to see him and Alex Shelley with their surprise return to kickoff Slamiversary. But when you look at Chris Sabin's career as a whole, wow. I mean, he's done it all. Triple Crown Champion in TNA, not to be. to mention he accomplished all of this while undergoing three knee surgeries. So we get into that and a bunch of other goodness here, like the goodness of these reviews we've been getting.

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Bobby X Rose X says CVV is amazing. Chris Van Vleet, aka Chris Van Vue. Thanks to MJF for that. He's a great interviewer. He's the Barbara Walters of Wrestling interviewer. The Chris Van Vleach show is the 2020 or 60 Minutes of Wrestling shows, the interview champion. Please subscribe and listen to this podcast.

Hell, go watch his YouTube show. Well, thank you, Bobby. Very nice of you. I'm always amazed when people watch YouTube, watch it on YouTube and then also listen to the podcast. It's like double dipping. I love it. Thank you.

And thank you to everyone who's listening, whether this is your first time here, or whether you listen to every single episode. And if no one's told you this yet, You're awesome. It's true. And so is this chat with Chris Sabin. As we sit here right now, he's won half of the Impact Wrestling tag team champions after beating the North and ending their record setting run.

We talk about what went into getting Alex Shelley to agree to return to Impact Wrestling after being away for eight years. We also get into Sabin's run as the TNA World Heavyweight Champion and why he felt like he wasn't ready to win it. He's also been working behind the scenes as a producer in Impact Wrestling for the last year or so. So we talk about how that shaped him as a wrestler. So let's do it. Here we go. It's the Chris and Chris Show featuring Chris Sabin. Well, one half of the Motor City Machine Guns, one half of the Impact Wrestling tag team champions.

Chris Sabin joining me. And, man, I didn't think that I'd be seeing the Motor City Machine Guns back in Impact Wrestling. that's me as a fan. Did you think that the Motor City machine guns would be back? Well, I always hoped in the back of my mind that it would happen. But, you know, I'm really happy that it did. So you've been rehabbing a knee injury for a while now. First of all, how's your knee feeling?

Really good, really good. So you're 100%? You're ready to go? I would say I'm as good as I'm going to be. I mean, you look great in the ring. Both of you guys look great in the ring. And look, it's just so awesome to see you guys back. And I know that while you were rehabbing the knee,

you were working backstage as a producer. What was that experience like for you working behind the scenes? It was really cool. You develop more of an appreciation for what goes on behind the curtain. You're in the production truck and seeing what the director does, what the producer does, and all the fast-paced stuff that's happening, you just, you know, you really, really develop a real appreciation for those guys of what they do

because they don't get any of the accolades, you know. People don't celebrate them, but they deserve credit for the hard work that they do for sure. I think people don't even know that they exist. And that's the funny thing. I think they just turn on, you know, the TV and see the guys in the ring, assume that that's it. But, man, there's so much more that's going on behind the scenes. So walk me through.

the knee injury and then walk me through how that led to you working backstage. Okay, so yeah, I tore my ACL wrestling for Ring of Honor. It was in January of 2019. I wasn't under contract when it happened. So, you know, I went and had to, you know, was in not a good position for me financially. But so basically, I mean, I did prehab. I just started doing. Luckily, I went to the place that I went to before, which was the University of Michigan. I had my, did my rehab for my second knee injury at U of M. So I knew the guys already from before. So I hit them up and luckily they got me in really quickly, like almost the next night. So they hooked it up and I did prehab, you know, for about four months before my surgery,

had the surgery. And then basically while I was rehab, and Scott Amor hit me up and said, you know, if you want, we can have you do some producing work because you don't really need your knee to do producing stuff. I'm like, yeah, I've never done it before, but I would love to give it a try. So, yeah, he hooked me up there. And, you know, the plan was always to wrestle again. But, you know, it was very cool that he gave me some work while I was rehabbing. So when you talk to your knee surgeons for, you know, this is your third knee surgery, are they like, oh, come on. You again? Like, really? Well, the first two surgeries that I got were by the TNA doctor at the time down to Florida.

I flew down to Florida both times to get it done. And then I just did my second rehab up here at U of M. So they, you know, they did work out like, oh, no, you again. But it was more like not, we weren't really celebrating it. It was like, oh, no, you again. They're like, oh, we've got some of the scars. We'll just cut those exact same scars from before. It's like you've got a roadmap in your knee now.

Yeah, yeah, they really did. They knew right where to cut because. the scars were still there. So, you know, Slammaversary was an incredible pay-per-view. And I feel like there's so much buzz around impact wrestling right now. And I feel like maybe more buzz around impact wrestling than there has been since the TNA days. So, you know, this is me from the outside looking in. What's it like being there and experiencing this?

It's cool. You know, I mean, there's an excitement. You can tell there's this, like, motivation in the locker room. You know what I mean? that everyone has this like buzz like yeah man like something's happening like we're doing something and every wrestling promotion is kind of on an even playing field right now with not being able to travel and have fans in their audience so it's kind of like it's it's a blank slate for everybody so uh you know it's it's there for whoever wants to take it and it seems like everyone's stepping

up man it's very exciting so how did you convince Alex Shelley that now is the time to get the guns back together? Well, I mean, I didn't have to convince him, luckily. Like, we just, I just asked him and he was down for it. You know, Scott DeMore and I discussed, because the plan was always for me to wrestle again, even while I was producing. It was always, you know, I'm going to wrestle again, I'm going to wrestle again. We didn't know whether it would be singles or what.

But, yeah, him and I discussed that, you know, it would be awesome if we can get the motor motor city machine guns back together for my return and everything and see how long Alex Shelley we'll stick around for. And so we both contact them and we both discussed it with them. And luckily, he said, yeah. I mean, this isn't just like a one-time thing, though. Like, you guys come in, you take out the north, you know, you break, they broke the record being the longest tag team champions in impact wrestling history. And then you guys break that, you know, you break that streak for them. So Motor City machine guns, I think, are here to stay. Yeah, I would like to think so. But, you know, you never know. We'll see. So who are some of the teams that now,

that you guys are back together, who are some of the teams you're looking forward to facing? Yeah, I mean, I think the North is awesome, of course. You know, I'd love to have many more matches with those guys. But the Rascals were awesome to work with. I mean, like to work with TjP and Follabide or the Good Brothers, like all those guys. Like, they have a really good tag team division right now. So, I mean, pretty much open to work in anyone. So working backstage, I know you said it gave you a different appreciation for all the behind the scenes people, but for actually breaking down a match, has it changed the way that you look at a match now? Yeah, a little bit, a little bit. I think that in the back of my mind, I kind of take

what the director and the producer and the agent has to go through, what they need to know, and what kind of makes it easier for them to maybe get certain shots or whatever it may be. But I always kind of have them in the back of my mind when I'm calling matches. And, you know, it's, it's different, definitely. How different, you know, for people that might not know, how different is it wrestling a match for TV versus just wrestling a match, you know, and the cameras aren't there? Sure. Yeah. It's a lot different because, I mean, when you're wrestling on for a television show, obviously, you got, you know, keep in mind the presence of the cameras, wherever they are. You kind of have to know where you are, where you're facing, where you're looking, and where the cameras are at all time. So it's, yeah, it's definitely way different.

And, you know, it's even more different without fans there. You know what I mean? It's so strange without fans there. But I kind of like it. You get used to it. And, you know, it's so cool. So we, I mean, the motor street machine guns have wrestled, obviously, in TNA, impact wrestling. Obviously, you bring a vaughner and New Japan.

And if we break down, and many other places, of course, but if we break down those three destinations, who would you say are the best people that you've worked with, the best matches that you've had in all three of those different places? It's hard to say. I guess I can think of a couple of my favorite matches. Well, we wrestled for, we wrestled Dick Togo and Akito Hadaka one time. I think those guys are just amazing. That was one of my favorite matches.

Bear Money, we had those best best of series with them is just one of my favorite times in my career. the young bucks, of course, we have longstanding history with those guys, so I enjoyed them. And that's, it's, I don't know, those are probably three of the top teams that I really enjoyed working with. There's, there's obviously way more that I really like working with, but those are three of the top ones that just pop into my head right now. So take it back to like the very beginning of the Motor City machine guns. Can you, do you remember the first time that you and Alex Shelley met? I remember the first time we met for sure. It was before an independent show in Michigan. And one of our old trainers asked, said, hey, would you roll around with this guy?

He's new or whatever. And I was like, yeah, sure. So we just rolled around a little bit doing some chain wrestling stuff. And I remember him doing, like, you know, different stuff that I wasn't expecting, like, a moodalock for some reason. I just remember him putting me in a moodal lock. And, yeah, and I was like, oh, this guy's really good. And then, you know, we ended up just knowing each other from, like, being on the same

independent shows or whatnot that we became friends. And obviously we started the tag team and all that stuff. and the rest is history. Well, you say, we just started as a tag to the rest of history, but like you guys both had, you know, very successful singles careers up until that point.

What was the catalyst to make, whoever decided, what was the catalyst to go, all right, we're going to take Chris Saban, we're going to take Alex Shelley, we're going to put you guys together and we're going to make some magic.

So this is actually, we're on tour together for a zero one max in Japan. And Mr. Nakamura, who was the booker at the time, put us together as a 10, tag team. And then so, you know, we had all these ideas just coming up with tag moves and stuff. They were like, holy crap, this works really well. We got really good chemistry in the ring. So we're like, hey, let's try and make something out of it. And so it was actually us having to push for

that for us to be a team in TNA. We had to push it. They didn't, they didn't really like it, you know, but we pushed it and we pushed it. We pushed it. And eventually they said, okay, you can do it. And then, you know, I think they were glad that we did. So before you were the motor city machine guns, You were the murder city machine guns. At what point did someone say, all right, you know, we probably shouldn't be saying murder on TV. Yeah, I think that was that was TNA's choice. I mean, which is fine.

I understand, you know, if you're going to be on television on like a weeknight on, you know, Spike TV, maybe you don't want to have, you know, kids watch wrestling and everything like that. So you got always got to keep that in mind. And I look, the fact that you guys are both from Michigan, I don't know if everybody gets that, am I doing with the right hand, by the way? Yeah, it's always the right. Okay. Right hands.

So I don't know if people, like, that's what you guys do when you pose in the top rope. I don't think that people outside of Michigan understand exactly what you're doing here. Yeah. Some people think I'm just pointing to my palm or whatever, you know, like, ah, this is where the power is. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, but yeah, if you look at a map, you know, Michigan is shaped like a palm. And then so you can always say, you know, we point to the city of Detroit's where the the Motor City machine guns.

It's the mitten state, right? Yeah, yeah, it is. We kind of have two mittens, you know. There's like one that we got the Upper Peninsula up top, so you can make it with two mittens, yeah. So do people in Michigan legitimately go, oh, yeah, I'm up, like, I'm up like here. Yeah, of course, of course. Like, oh, you're heading up north for the weekend.

Where are you heading? You know, where's your cabin? Oh, it's right about here. If you're from Michigan, people like, oh, okay. And then they know, they understand, you know. It's a Michigan thing, man. So both you and Shelley are from there. Yes.

Alex Shelley and Chris Saban are from here. Man, there's a geography lesson here. This is so great. Yeah. You know, I was always so blown away by, you talk about the chemistry that you guys had, but I was blown away by how intuitive you guys were in the ring and how innovative you were with some of the double team moves. So where would that?

usually start from? I think just practice, really. I mean, I think it stems from practice. You know, back in those TNA days, we would always be in the ring before the show practicing stuff. And even nowadays, we meet at least once a week to get together and practice stuff, actually, which we just did today. I pretty much got back, you know, about hour and a half ago.

And we were together in centerline, Michigan at Truth Martini School practicing. So you guys would just try new stuff. and be like, oh, that might actually work. And it would work. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it has something with us, you know, being about the same height, same weight, same size, you know, same athletic ability. I don't know. It just works out well for whatever reason. Are there things that you guys are working on now that maybe we'll see in the next few weeks on impact? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Oh, there's new motor city machine gun stuff.

Oh, of course. We're always coming up with new stuff. this is amazing now you guys are back together you're healthy you're ready to go but is it is it going to be motor city machine gun tag team matches moving forward or do you guys think that you'll be breaking off and doing some single stuff as well i'm not sure i think just you know for the time being definitely tag team stuff especially why were the tag team champions but but you never know i'm sure there's no you know there's no plan for you guys not to be the tag team champions anytime soon so there's the answer right there. Tagged for a long time. There you go. We'll just go with that. I look at your career and, you know, it's, you've done, you've done pretty much everything in TNA.

I mean, you really have done everything. Was there a moment, maybe it was a year in, maybe it was two years in, where you really started to find your footing with TNA? Yeah, yeah, I would say. I don't know, as far as like feeling comfortable. Yeah, or just realized. that you were on to something. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I mean, I think it's just one continual process of being comfortable in the ring. I mean, even after 20 years, I feel like I'm still just like evolving myself as like a performer and everything. So it's, I don't know.

I mean, there was a point when I was really, really comfortable in the ring. And that was a point when I tore my first ACL. So it was bad timing then. Like I was really, really comfortable in the ring with everything we were doing, who I was as a performer. and then that happened. So that was very bad timing. And I feel like I've been trying to catch up back to that point ever since then. And I feel like I'm closer now than I've ever been before. With three knee surgeries, is there anything that you're now nervous to do in the ring? Sure, springboards. I used to do a lot of springboards. I mean, I'm not going to say that I'm

never going to do a springboard again, but it's, that's, that's maybe one thing that I'm really nervous. Plus the moves that I did when that originally tore my ACL, like one of them, a springboard close line, okay, I'm not going to do a springboard clothesline anymore. Top row pro Corona, I'm not going to do a top row per Corona anymore. So I'll avoid those for sure. Is it the springboard, like is it the actual

jumping up on the springboard or was it when you landed? It was when I landed. Yeah. Oh. Happens, man. That's two moves out of the thousands that you can do. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I think I could do without two moves.

But, you know, if you get up on the top rope or something like that, do you feel it in your knee? Do you feel like maybe it's not as stable as it once was? No, I don't think so. I feel pretty good. And I think that's just because just getting in the ring and getting that muscle memory down and practicing. I think that really helps. And just got to make sure I just keep doing it. I'd not take too much time off of or too much time outside of the ring.

You know, I got to make sure I get in the ring as much as I can, man, just to keep myself ready. you're one of those people who's like so passionate about wrestling that you're still doing it every week there's a lot of people that would be 20 years into the career and they'd go i'll just wait till i get to the taping i'll be fine what is that in you that like you have that drive in you yeah i i don't know it's just this uh guess it's kind of an unexplainable thing you know i've just i've always known or i've always like felt inside that this is what i'm supposed to be doing so i kind of just followed that instinct and it hasn't steered me wrong. Do you remember what your first memory of wrestling was?

I don't know if it's my first, but I definitely have some vivid memories of like, so watching like superstars when I was a kid and then watching Jake the Snake, you know, macho man was tied up in the ropes and Jake had the cobra and it bit macho man's bicep. And then they have this like red X on the screen because they could just. show it or whatever and my mom being like what is this what are you watching i don't want you watching this stuff and i'm like oh you know of course that just made me want to watch it more it's just stuff like that you know it's just weird little memories that stick out and you know watching pay-per-view scrambled like i remember trying to watch like like rustlemania seven or eight i would just watch it

scrambled and listen to it and you know sometimes you catch a little glimpse of something that was going on like i don't know man it's just always been drawn towards wrestling for whatever reason And at what point did you go, that's going to be me one day? Yeah, I think it was when I was pretty young. I don't know if there was like a tipping point where like, I'm going to do this. But yeah, I kind of always wanted. I just feel like, yeah, that looks like fun. I just, I have to do this.

I have to. We're about the same age. And for me, the attitude era like really sucked me in. And, you know, we both were teenagers during the heart of the attitude era. For that, you know, was that where you. Was that where you were just like, oh, my gosh, it doesn't get any better than this. Oh, yeah, for sure. And I was like, you know, man, I look at all that.

I can work for ECW when I'm a wrestler. I can work for WCW when I'm a wrestler. Like, oh, this is awesome, you know. And this is, you know, those boom, that boom period, like I was, you know, a sophomore, junior, senior high school, you know. So when you're that age, you know, just think like, yeah, nothing's ever going to go wrong or anything. So as soon as I was 18, graduated that summer, I was in wrestling school. And then the following year, oh, there goes ECW. Oh, there goes WCW.

Oh, look it. You know, there's only one promotion you could work for. Oh, did I make the right choice? Trying to become a wrestler. But, you know, luckily things worked out the way they did. You know, there weren't a lot of people that were doing the style of wrestling that you now do. So when you were growing up, who were some of the people that you looked up to? I think as far as my style goes,

I like studying like Chris Benoit, De Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Jus and Thunder Liger, Shinjaro Otani. I would really like watching the WCW cruiseways because I'm like, okay, these guys are like my size. Like I'm a smaller guy, and then, you know, WCW would bring in luchadors and they bring up our competitors from Japan and stuff.

So that exposed me to, you know, wrestling outside of the U.S. And then I, of course, through RF video, I would try to buy, you know, Super J-Cup from 1994 and stuff like that and just watching. I would watch all these crazy Japanese guys that I didn't even know existed before and became huge fans of them and the style and everything. And, you know, it just kind of stemmed. I really, really studied a lot of cruiserweight wrestling when I was younger, you know, because I'm a cruiserweight. Sounds like you were a tape trader. I wouldn't say a trader.

I just bought tapes. So I never really traded or anything. I just kind of bought him and watched him. RF video for some of our younger viewers. What a throwback that is. Yeah, right, right. You got to remember our video, right? For anyone that's watching right now and it's too young to know that,

our video is what existed before YouTube, basically. Yeah, yeah. This was the only place to see any sort of like, you know, obscure wrestling. Hey, it's Chris popping in for just a second to thank our sponsor. for this one. And I'm so excited because Sundays are coming back in the NFL. And with NFL Sunday Ticket.tv, you can stream every live at a market NFL game every Sunday afternoon on your favorite devices plus Red Zone and DirecTV Fantasy Zone channels. You'll never miss your favorite teams and favorite players. So no matter where you live, NFL Sundayticket.tv

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What was the match that you would like, if you had a friend who loved wrestling and maybe hadn't seen any of these like obscure matches, they came over to your house. What was the match? You got to see this one. I remember. So there was a Jus and Thunderliger Dean Lanco match that I really, really liked. And I watched it over and over and over. I just remember like, it's just the way they were doing everything was so smooth and so perfect. It was just blew me away.

And I knew it was something that even if someone. wasn't a wrestling fan, they could watch that and be like, holy crap, that's really cool. Where was your, or how did your break with TNA first happen? Like, how did you get on their radar? So, Scott DeMore ran Border City Wrestling and I was doing some shows for Scott. Scott booked me in a match against Saboo. So Sabu and I had a pretty good match and it was filmed. And Scott showed that match. He knew Jeff Jared. So Scott showed that match of knee wrestling saboo to Jeff Jarrett. And I guess it impressed them enough to at least give me a tryout. So then I remember Scott, Scott myself and Zach Gowen, who had, I think it was Zach's second tryout or whatever. We all drove down to Nashville for

that one Wednesday pay-per-view. And, you know, I was on the show and then they liked me and ended up signed to me after that. And then you were there for forever after that. 11 years, yeah, 11 years. Yeah, that's incredible. You've seen it all. You've seen a lot in, you know, TNA's history. And in that first run of you, that first run for you in TNA, where would you say was like, you know, the real prime time of TNA? Probably like 2009, 2010.

I mean, I think that's when everything was at its peak. It's hard to say because there's been, it's kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of, it's kind of, kind of up and down, you know, it's been like waves or everything. It wasn't like one giant arc or whatever. But, yeah, I would say those years, I think we're the best, like around 2008, 2009, 2010. The best for you as well, you think? Yeah, just, I don't know. I just have really fond memories of being there. And like everyone was happy. Everyone has a good time. Well, I shouldn't say everyone was happy because people were always unhappy for some reason. But I just remember that being just a really fun time. That was also when the locker room was

just like absolutely stacked with like the biggest names too. Yeah, for sure. And everyone was like, yeah, this place is, you know, we're right on the edge, right on the edge of like just becoming huge and everything, you know, so. Well, you're one of the pioneers of the X Division. Do you remember the conversations that you guys first had when the X Division was being talked about when this first got introduced?

I don't, the X-Division, I guess I didn't show up into the company. until it was already eight months old. And I think like, so there was already like the group of Jerry Lynn, low key, AJ Styles, Amazing Red. Those guys were kind of like the very first X-Division. So I kind of came in when the next group, when it was like myself, Frankie's there, and Michael Shane. So the exhibition was kind of already a thing.

And the only way they really explained it was that, you know, it's not about weight limits, it's about no limits. So I'm saying, all right, it just got to be like this new school style of wrestling. know. And then like throwing in things like the Ultimate X, which just takes things to a whole new level. How do you prepare for an Ultimate X match? I don't think you can. I remember the first ultimate X match we did. They weren't even prepared. Like they put these posts. Like they hadn't had the structure set up yet. So we went there the day before just to like see the structure, climb up on it,

make sure, see how sturdy it is just to get a feel for it. And I remember when they originally put like these posts in the corner posts, like just these long poles and they had the cables going across. I remember Frankie climbed up, grabbed down in the middle and he tried to hang on it. And then on those posts just kind of bent in. Like we're like, oh, no, what are we going to do? So they were scrambling to figure out a way to, you know, build this structure because they had this match advertise and then what they finally ended up doing was using like the light trusses that go or you know

that hang above the ring you know i think they use four pieces of those and i used uh straps to strap it to the ring post and that end up being strong enough to so so we didn't even have any experience with it we didn't even get to climb on the structure at all get a feel for it at all basically when the match happened that was the first time we were climbing on that thing so we were just kind of hoping that this thing stays together so how do you call any sort of spots if you don't know if it can support you or not. Yeah, you just hope, hope. That's all we had was hope that night. Oh, my gosh. Wow. But then the bar keeps getting raised higher and higher every single time there was an ultimate X match, I feel like. Yeah,

and it's hard for the bar to get raised in a match like that too. But people somehow throughout the years, every time they've consistently been able to raise the bar, which it's amazing. was there something in any X Division match where someone pitched this idea to you and you're like, no, there's, we're not going to do that. We can't do that. What, the ultimate X? Sure, or just any any X division match maybe. Oh, sure. That one, that one was pretty nerve-wracking. I remember they did the elevation X one time. I don't know. It was Ryan O and AJ Stiles. Yeah.

I remember when they were talking about all. that. I'm like, oh, dear God, I hope that's not going to be a regular thing. You know what I mean? So I remember like the clip I played back a thousand times was Elix Skipper, you know, doing the tightrope walk in the top of the cage. And I'm like, I hope more people don't try that. Like that looked terrifying. Yeah, for sure. That was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen just in life. Cudos to him, man, for pulling that off. Well, kudos to all you guys for pulling all of this stuff off. I mean, the reason that wrestling is so awesome now in 2020 is because of a lot of the stuff that you guys did in the mid-2000s.

Well, that's kind of you say. I appreciate that. But, you know, we wouldn't have been able to do any of stuff. It wasn't for the guys before us, like, you know, the ECW and the WCW and all that stuff. You know, all the cruiserweight stuff, all the wrestling around the world that influenced the division because that's kind of what I feel like the division was kind of like combined every style of wrestling around the world into this you know mold of whatever you know this new kind of style that we had that's a mix of everything we wouldn't be able to do that without you know everyone before us so everything just kind of built on each other

working so closely with AJ styles who's widely considered one of the best ever what do you think you learned from him that you might still be applying in your matches now hmm I'm not sure I'm not sure. He didn't really like me at first. So I don't know. I don't know if I wanted to learn from a guy who didn't really like me. You know what I mean? I don't know.

Yeah, I guess you can ask him why he didn't like me. Are you guys fine now? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I would say he's, you know, we of course respect each other. And I would say he's one of my friends. I've known him for a long time. But I haven't talked to him in a long time.

But yeah. It's funny. The Wikipedia entry. for when you won the world championship was that you didn't feel like you were ready. You felt like you were too young to win it. What's the whole story behind that? Well, the reason I felt like I wasn't ready

was because, so basically, you know, I was a tag team wrestler in TNA, from, you know, they didn't start. Patrick and I first had our first tag team match in 2006, but TNA didn't put us as a tag team until 2007. So 2007, until 2011, I was a tag team wrestler, part of the Motor City Machine Guns. And then my injury happened.

I was out for a year. I came back. I had whatever, a couple matches as the machine guns. Then Alex Shelley left. Then I was on my own. I only did like a couple matches on my own. I think it was like 10, 11 matches total. Then I tore my other ACL.

Then I was out for another year. So I was basically out for almost two years straight. And then several years before that, I was only a tag team wrestler. So they wanted to put the title on me like really quickly. I mean, this was like two or three months after I came back. And I just didn't feel like I was ready. I didn't feel like I knew who I was as a singles wrestler, had enough experience,

or just kind of like found myself to be on my own. You know what I mean? And like had, I just didn't feel like I was ready for it just because, you know, like I said, I was always a tag team wrestler. And this has only been me by myself for a couple months after being out of the ring for two years.

I just felt like it was too quick. But hey, I'm so grateful to happen, you know. It's, do I feel like I could have done better if they would have built it up over a year? You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. But it is what it is. So did you ask then to lose the title on your first defense? Was that your decision?

No, no, no. I think that just happened. Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you say that you don't think you were ready as a singles wrestler after being X-Division champion. Yeah, yeah. I think it was just like I had, uh, it used to. to it again, I guess, you know? I just kind of always, always, like, felt like I was Chris Saban of the

Motor City Machine Guns at that point, and I just didn't have any recent experience of being Chris Aben on his own, you know, and just aside from being, like, off for two years straight and coming back from two ACL surgeries and already being nervous with that, you know, and then all of a sudden all that was thrown at me. I was like, whoa, okay, it was a lot to handle. So what was the conversation with Bubba like before that match? I don't know. There wasn't, it wasn't much of a conversation. It was just any, an average conversation you would have before a match.

Really? It wasn't like, this is your moment. This is your, you know, this is your big match. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't even think I saw him until like 20 minutes before the match. So you just knew the finish with that point? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Basically, yeah.

Do you think that you have it in you now to be the world champion again? Yeah, I think so. I think so. I think I would be a lot more prepared now. I would feel more comfortable. And I don't think they would throw it on me right away or anything. I think that the company's just different now. And hopefully, I have time to prepare and build something up as opposed to the shotgun in a story like that real quick. But yeah, I think that I would be a lot better prepared now. So when you look at like the history of the Motor City machine guns, things were going great. One of the greatest tag teams. in TNA history, at least in my opinion. What was the feeling for you like when Alex decided to leave? And now all of a sudden you're going to be a singles wrestler. Yeah. I mean, I was pretty nervous about it because I had just come back from knee surgery.

So this was like in between my knee surgeries was actually when. It was just very strange time. But, you know, basically they offered us new contracts. And the contracts that they offered us weren't as good as the contracts we had. So I had just come back from knee surgery and I was like, well, you know, I don't, I'm not really sure how wrestling is going to go for me. Like, if my knee's going to hold up, like I kind of need the security. And he was, you know, he was fine and he didn't need the security.

He could do whatever he wanted. So, you know, I discussed it. And of course, like, yeah, man, of course I completely understand. You want to go do something else. That's fine. You're my friend. I support you. And he understands my decision for wanting to stay because I needed that security.

And it's a good thing I did because then my, for my ACL. again right after that. I like how your life is defined by each different knee surgery. I mean, as we're talking about everything, you're like, oh, that was before the first one. That was after the second one. This is wild. Yeah, like the second half of my career is defined by these injuries, unfortunately. So now that that second half is gone, and we're entering the next part of, you know, this next decade, hopefully that injuries will not be a part of it. You're like a pro rehabber, you know? So, so what's the, what's the secret to rehabbing and being better than you were before the injury? Hard work, man. You just have to have the right mental attitude and put

in the work. I know this time that doing prehab before the knee surgery, which I didn't do before the previous two knee surgeries. I actually did like rehab stuff four months before my surgery. That helped me out so much, so much. I didn't lose as much muscle mass. off my legs or anything like that. I felt like I came back stronger when I started rehab and after the surgery. And yeah, I think that was a big part of it. You know, it's just got to have the right attitude and got to be willing to put in the work. That's really all it is. Well, you'd never know. You'd seen you in the ring. You'd never know that there was a problem at all. I appreciate that. Well, then come on. You're one of the best to ever do this as a tag team. And,

you know, it shows every single time you guys step into the ring. Oh, thank you. I feel like the, you know, obviously we're in a different time right now. It's crazy with what's going on in the world. But if there was ever a time to have a crowd at a show, it would have been for the Motor City Machine Guns returning to start off Slam Reverse. I mean, what a way to start off that show. I just, I wish that the crowd could have been there to react to that. Yeah, it would have been really cool. You know, unfortunately, things had to be the way they are with, without the fans there. I think, you know, hopefully we did the best we could with the situation we were presented with, and hopefully the fans watching from home are excited.

But, yeah, it would have been really cool. I think it would have added to it to have the fans there and just, you know, had a nice reaction from them, feel that energy. I mean, well, when the fans are back, that energy will be there. But I'm curious to know if that was, that match was always planned to be first. I mean, the surprise of you guys coming back was such a great way to start that show. Was that always the way that it was planned? I'm honestly not sure because I didn't know till that day. At least for that day, that's how it.

Sure. For that day, that was it. And what a way to start the show, right? Immediately you guys were trending on Twitter worldwide. Yeah, that was really cool. You know, it was nice to be welcomed back with open hours by the fans. Was there ever a point, like we saw Shelley briefly in WWE, was there a point where you thought your career might take you there?

When I was, when I first started everything, yeah, that was always the goal. I always, in the back of my mind, I kind of was like, I'll end up there. I'll end up there because that's the promotion I watched growing up. That's the first wrestling I was exposed to. And that's kind of like, you know, I was a big WWF fan growing up. That's what gave me my motivation to want to be a wrestler and all that stuff. But, you know, and then I don't know, I guess at some point, you know, maybe some dreams are meant to be denied, you know. Maybe I'll never make it there.

and if I don't at this point I'm perfectly okay with that. You know, would I still like to? Sure, but I'm not sure that my body could handle a schedule like that or that I would even want to have a schedule like that to be quite honest. Yeah, at this point, I don't know. I kind of just do it for the love at this point. I don't do it for the money or the fame. I just do it because I love it.

With, you know, with Shelley being in the Dusty Classic, while you were injured, right? Were you still injured at that time? Yes, I wasn't back yet. I was still working as a producer, yeah. Right. So was there talk of that being the Motor City machine guns instead of the time splitters? I don't think so.

I think they planned that out for specifically the time splitters. We were contacted. Actually, I was leaving rehab, and then we were contacted about doing something with them as the machine guns. but I was like, look, I'm sorry. Like, I just left rehab right now. I'm in the parking lot of my rehab place. I'm just not ready. I'm just not ready to do it.

So that was the only one time that they talked about having the motor city machine guns do something. But, you know, it just wasn't the right time for it to work out. So let's do some complete fantasy booking here. It's obviously not possible. But if we had a match between the Motor City machine guns and the time splitters, how do you see this going? well i see it going that uh the world's top scientists are going to have to study it because there's

going to be two alice shelley's there and then they're going to wonder how did it actually split so yeah i don't know i mean i think there would be definitely a lot of counters in that match because we would know each other's moves so it probably just counter after counter until someone ended up getting a roll-up finish you know and the hot tag would definitely be Alex Shelley tagging in, you know, both Alex Shelley's coming in, I would feel like. Yeah, yeah. We'll see you. I'd love to watch Alex Shelley versus Alex Shelley.

I'd love to see Chris Saban versus Chris Saban. Yeah. Do you, so I have a confession to make that I have had the words of your theme song stuck in my head pretty much since you guys returned. Do you know all the words to that song? No, I know the first couple. It's like 100,000 miles on a dead end road. I need a little Detroit in my soul.

Yeah. And then there's the catchy, you know, part, Motor City. You know, so, hey, if it's catchy and it gets stuck in people's head, then that's a good thing, you know. Yeah, that's the part I can't get out of my head. You know, it was like typing out like question like, Motor City. Yeah. I probably didn't help that by singing it, huh? No, now everybody is now stuck in everybody's head now.

which is a great thing. No, it's a, that's a catchy song. When you heard that for the first time, were you like, yep, yep, they nailed it. Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. I liked it since the first time I heard it, yeah. It's, uh, it's, it's a, and that's why when I heard that at Slamoversa,

I was like, oh my God, I can't believe this is actually happening. This, you guys are back together. Uh, thank you. Yeah, it was cool, man. It was really cool. So, you know, what's next for the Motor City Machine Guns? Yeah, I, I mean, I guess it's trying to hold on to the tag team titles, you know, taking it as it comes.

And we got a tapings this week. So, you know, I guess we're just got to show up prepared. And we'll just continue to train hard and, you know, meet up once a week like we're doing, practicing in the ring and stay strong, stay ready and, you know, see what happens. And the 18th and 25th is emergence. What can fans expect there? Well, they announced that there would be a rematch with the North versus the Motor City Machine Guns. So that is going to be for the title. So that would be our first title defense. So North getting a rematch there.

I don't know if you like the first one, and definitely got to check out the second one. When you're wrestling right now, are you able to hear the announcers as they're calling your match? No, I think they do that in post. Well, I guess at Slamovirisory, they were there, though, right? Yeah, yeah, I couldn't hear them, though.

That's probably a good thing. Yeah, I wouldn't want to because I guess it would be kind of of distracting, right? Well, if they say something that you didn't like, you'd be like, what are you talking about? Yeah, start acknowledging. Then I just leave the ring, go over, you know, grab Josh or Don Callis. It would make for a great segment. Yeah, might get counted out, but anything.

Yeah. What's some advice that you have for up-and-coming tag team wrestlers? Oh, yeah, practice. You know, practice, practice, practice. I think that that's a really big thing what tag team wrestling is because it's not just you, it's you and your partner, you know what I mean? So let's make sure, you know, that there's a lot of communication there that you guys are on the same level and you guys, you know, had the same goals and just keep that communication

open between the two of you and practice, practice to your moves. And, you know, that's really the best for tag team wrestlers. I think there's a lot of people that when they get into the wrestling business, they want to be a single star. They picture themselves holding that world championship. Was that your plan all along or did you want to be a tag team guy? Like I think that was kind of like a dream, you know what I mean? Like, oh, it would be cool to be the world champion and all that stuff.

And, you know, that's kind of like your motivation when you're a kid and you dream, you know, you dream about being the top guy, being the world heavyweight champion. You know, I always dreamed myself pitting the guy in the main event of WrestleMania and winning the title. You know what I mean? Like one of my heroes, Brett Hart, you know what I mean? I would always act like I was. was him as a kid. But, you know, then reality sets in and then you actually get into the business and you realize how the business actually works and how everything is. And to be honest, how, like, shady a lot of people are in wrestling and how people are, it's pretty cutthroat

too and how people, a lot of people only look out for themselves. And, you know, and then it gets to the point to where, well, once I got into the business and I saw how it was, I'm like, you know, I just want to make a living doing this. This is so fun. I, I love doing it. I don't care if I'm the first match or the last match where I'm the main event or if I'm a tag team match. It's just a fun job. And I absolutely love doing it. And so I just want to try to stay employed and hopefully one day retire off pro wrestling.

That's my goal. So when you pitch the idea of the Motor City Machine Guns to TNA, was the idea longevity? I'm not sure if it was longevity. I mean, that definitely comes to the play because when you're a tag team wrestler, obviously you're not in the ring the entire time. You get little breaks throughout the match. So it's maybe a little easier on the body. But I think just at that point when we wanted to be the machine guns in TNA,

we were just, you know, we just liked what we were doing and we wanted to create this tag team, you know. You talk about retiring from wrestling. Is this, you know, something that is on your mind to happen soon? No, I hope not. I really hope not. I just hope that one day if I'm good enough with the money that I make. And I save enough that hopefully one day I can retire off wrestling somehow, just off wrestling. That's my goal.

It sounds like you, you know, you've got a nice home in impact wrestling. It sounds like when your in-ring career is done, hopefully it's in, you know, 20 years from now or something like that. But it sounds like you'll be able to work backstage. Yeah, yeah. And getting some experience as a producer is definitely a good thing. So even if I'm not always able to be in the ring, hey, maybe I can be backstage helping somehow as a producer or whatever. So 20 more years, you think?

Hey, well, let's just say 20 more years, yeah. You'll be almost 60, is that right? Yeah, yeah, I will be. I'm 38 now, so, yeah, maybe 10 years as a wrestler, 10 years as backstage or something. And there you go. That's all you mean. Who knows, yeah.

And then you can retire like somewhere around here. Yes, I retire up north Michigan. on the lake away from everyone and everything and I can live out my years peacefully. As we wrap this up, and again, thank you for this time, Chris. This has been so great hanging out with you. What does Chris Saban do when he's not wrestling? I mean, well, I say from watching wrestling and training working out, which has to do with wrestling. I don't know, I'm a pretty simple guy, man.

I like playing video games, watching movies, reading books. any kind of game. I love games, like board games, card games, anything like that. I like the outdoors a lot. Disc golf,

hiking, camping, just anything outdoors, biking, all sorts of stuff, man, just, yeah, yeah,

nothing crazy or super fascinating, interesting. I'm pretty, pretty simple guy. I feel like you listed literally every leisure activity you could possibly do. Yeah.

I'm a leisurely guy. I just said that. All right. What's the, the go-to board game? Oh, the go-to board game. So it's funny enough you say that. I was just had my buddy's house playing this the other day, but it's called pandemic. I don't know if you've ever played it. It's ironic. But yeah, exactly. You know, the time that, you know, with what's going on right now. But we played this game actually for a couple years. So then we thought about,

oh, man, maybe we played it too much because then now there's an actual pandemic. Jeez. You should be an expert at this now. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah, it's a fun game, though. really fun game. The pandemic pro. That's what you are. Yeah, I don't want to be pandemic board game pro. That's it. Pandemic board game. All right. One more. What's the go-to movie or the greatest movie of all time in your opinion? Oh, that's probably brave art might be my favorite. I used to, I used to know that movie from beginning to end. Like I could like say every part of it. I watched it over and over and over. I just loved that movie. Actually, one more because you skimmed right over the video games. And there's going to be a lot of people that are interested in knowing what games you're playing. Oh, okay. Well, right now I'm playing

Park Cry New Dawn. I played Far Cry 5 and I never got around the plane like that little, I guess it's kind of like a sequel expansion pack of it or whatever. So I mean, I've been playing that and I always play some random stuff like puzzle quest on my switch or I'll just throw on like Apex Legends or something if I just want to, you know, have not a real big commitment to play and just play like for 20 minutes or something or play with my buddies or my brothers or something like that. Well, there we go. Now everybody knows. Everybody knows your board game, your movie, and your video game.

Yeah. Chris Saban, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for joining me for this. Cool. Thank you. My pleasure, man. Appreciate it. Well, there it is. The Chris and Chris show.

I guess we've done a few of those. Chris Jericho, Chris Masters, and now Chris Saban, although I feel like maybe I'm missing a Chris or two in there. Oh, Christopher Daniel. there it is. If you can do me a huge favor and subscribe or follow on whatever platform you're listening on right now, I'd be so grateful. So please, I'll thank you in advance. So thank you for that. Also, take a screenshot. Tag me. I'm at Chris Van Vleet with the new profile photo. Tag Sabin. He's at Super Chris Saban. And it's pretty incredible to think about what he's accomplished in his TNA slash

impact wrestling career. And now that he's fully healed, yeah, the sky's the limit for him. And the Matches that the Motor City machine guns have had with the North. Oh, epic. Can't wait to see more of those. So I will leave you with a quote from the Buddha. I love this. The mind is everything. What you think you become.

Thanks for being with us on this one. And remember, be great and be grateful. And before we go, sports are coming back, and so are your chances to bet on your favorite teams and events. Major League Baseball is back. in action and there's no better place to start wagering than our exclusive partners, bet online. Check out all the odds, futures, and props to bet on. It's all available 24-7. And with the return of sports, BetOnline sat down with former pro players Eddie George, Harold

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