Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Christian Cage Is Doing The Best Work Of His Career! AEW, Coming Out Of Retirement, Adam Copeland

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Christian Cage (@christian4peeps) is a professional wrestler signed to AEW. He is also known for his career in WWE where he was simply known as Christian and was part of a legendary tag team with Edge (Adam Copeland). He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood to talk about his legendary career that started in 1995, getting into the best shape of his life at 50 and why he created Pure Plank with Adam Copeland, doing the best work of his career right now in AEW, pushing the envelope with his patriarchy character, how he was able to come out of retirement after 7 years, his WWE return in 2020, being part of the Royal Rumble in 2021, signing with AEW a month later, the reaction to his debut, being part of the first ever TLC match, memories of his WrestleMania 18 match against DDP in Toronto, what made him leave WWE for TNA in 2005, proving himself as a singles wrestler, how much longer he wants to wrestle before retiring and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: “Do not fear failure but rather fear not trying.” - Roy T. Bennett Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code INSIGHT to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, my friends. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I am CVV, Chris Van Fleek. Good to see you here. Thanks for being with us. And thank you, as always, for helping to make Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. Before we go ahead here any further, just do me one quick little favor. Could you hit that follow button wherever you're listening to this right now?

Thank you so much. That is so helpful. that you did that. I appreciate you. We had Adam Copeland, aka Edge, on the show a few weeks ago. That was actually our most downloaded episode in the month of May. And May was the biggest month that we've ever had for the podcast.

That's going to be one of the biggest episodes of the year, I think, for sure. And here we are, just a few weeks later, with his longtime tag team partner and recent rival in AEW, Christian Cage joining us in the studio. You heard Adam talk about he got into the best shape of his life with pure plank. And he created that with Christian.

And now you're going to hear a very similar story from Christian. He was at his worst in 2020. And now he looks the way he does at 50 years old. Incredible. Best shape of his life. And they gave us the code CVV to share with you guys if you want to get a pure plank of your own and you can save some money with the code CVV at go pureplank.com. Not only is, is Christian in the best shape of his life. He's also doing the best work of his career right now. He is a mega heel. He's saying things in these promos.

I didn't even know you could say on TV. All the talk about dead fathers. I mean, Jungle Boy's father is a Hollywood icon. Luke Perry. And he's, I just feel like there's some things that you, maybe you shouldn't talk about. And then you get surprised by, oh, you can pull that off. Oh, and you can turn that into a whole angle with the patriarchy.

It's been incredible to watch. We talk about him coming back to wrestling after being forced to retire in 2014 from concussions. You might remember, he made a few appearances in WWE. He had that unsanctioned match with Randy Orton where it ended with a low blow. That was in 2020. He returned at the Royal Rumble in 2021. It was the first time he'd been physical in seven years. Then a month or so later, he signed with AEW, and now he's doing what he's doing there.

And it's been amazing to see. There's a lot to talk about in Christian's almost 30-year career. Take a screenshot and share it online, tag us so we can share it out as well. He's at Christian 4 peeps. That's the number 4. So Christian number 4 peeps. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Let's do it.

Enjoy this one with Christian. Christian Cage. Is it just a closet full of turtlenecks, as it looks like? Well, I mean, I've managed to bring the turtleneck back into fashion. And nobody wears it the way that I wear it, obviously. But you can see by influence, you're starting to see it sprinkled out throughout not just wrestling, but also in pop culture. People starting to pull out the turtleneck, you know. A fashion icon.

I'm an icon in many different ways. It's true. I like that you've gone with a turtleneck, with the sleeve. look. That, that is something. It's commitment. That's what it is. Yeah. It's great. So I had Adam Copeland on recently, and he was taking a lot of credit for Pure Plank.

What's your role in Pure Plank? Well, the Pure Plank was actually my original idea. And it was developed, you know, like many people, they had a lot of dark periods, especially through the pandemic. And that's really when this

was created for me. And it basically was, was, there was a lot of steps to get to it. And I guess I'll just kind of take it back a little bit. It was, was, you know, during the pandemic. I was, you know,

in my post wrestling life, being told that I had to retire. Had you accepted retirement at that point, by the way? I accepted it only for the fact that I had a young child. And because it was concussion related injuries, I didn't question it. My only thought was I wanted to be able to have a conversation with my daughter

when she turned 13 years old. And so I didn't, I took it at face value. I didn't explore it any further. And realizing later on that, you know, I could come back. But that was the reasoning. And plus, you know, I managed to stay busy outside of wrestling. I was doing other things. I managed to stay busy.

I was doing a show on Fox at the time. Backstage. Yeah. I was doing the pay-per-view pre-show panels. I was doing a number of other things outside of wrestling. And then when the pandemic hit, much like everybody else, everything that I had that I was working on went away. It all went away.

And so I found myself, you know, I was in a tough time in my life. I had just gone through a divorce and, you know, feeling pretty low after that. I'm a pretty private person, so I haven't talked about this much in public. But I think it's important part of this story for pure plank. And yeah, I was going through a very dark period. As far as that goes, like I said, my work had gone away. My marriage had dissolved. And now on weeks where I didn't have my daughter,

I was literally alone 24 hours a day, seven days a week. And it was a very, very lonely existence. I found, and I just, you know, I found myself trying to do things to keep busy. Going on, I called my old man walks at night. I would just put my headphones on and just, outside and go for a walk just because I had nobody talked to, nobody to see anything. And, you know, I got into a little bit of,

I was probably a little bit of depression, I'm sure, feeling low and down on myself and just feeling sorry for myself. And, you know, I started making unhealthy choices. And, you know, a lot of that was with food choices. I was eating not great. You know, I would sit down on the couch at night and what's better than half a box of cheese that's sitting on the couch?

I'll tell you what's better than half a box, a full box. Right. And that's pretty much what happened on a nightly basis of my house. And, you know, maybe drinking a little bit too much and other things like that. Like I said, I just wasn't making healthy choices. And my body was feeling it. And one day, I happened to walk and pass the mirror without a shirt on. And I did not like what I did not like what I saw. Especially a career where, you know, you're without your shirt for, you know, your whole career. Right. And I was a little bit. I was in the house by myself and I was ashamed. I was like, so I was like, you know what? I think maybe, you know, I look myself. myself in the mirror and I said, you know, you're, your self-sabotaging is what you're doing. You're not allowing yourself to be happy because you feel like, especially with, you know, the marriage, you know, failing. And, you know, there were, there were parts, you know, you, you, you run all that stuff back in your head multiple times of what happened and things like that.

So you, yeah, I was not allowing myself to be happy in any form of my life. I was just feeling sorry for myself because of all these things that were snowballing. And instead of, so I looked myself in the mirror and I said, no, this isn't you. You know, start making better choices. Be there. If you can't do anything else, be there for your daughter. And that's what I wanted to do. So I immediately turned it around the next day, I said, I'm starting tomorrow.

You know, I had called a friend of mine, a guy named Chris Cavalini, who owns a nutrition company called Nutrition Solutions in Tampa. And he had been working with Adam. him previously. So I had known of him, but I didn't talk. I'd never met him at the time. So it went on and I joined up nutrition solutions. And Adam had told him so he had called me. And we were talking and I remember I was driving somewhere.

And, you know, he asked me what kind of shape. And I was like, well, I'm put it to you like this. I was like, I'm not like, I said, if I was at a dad bod pool party, I'd probably like top five dad bododd. You know? So I wasn't, you know, I feel like I could pull it back in it. if I dedicated myself in a pretty relatively short amount of time. So he's like, okay, so he starts talking.

And then he says, like, well, when you sign up, the delivery started the next week. So I started telling me, I said, oh, yeah, when I start next week, he goes, oh, no, no, you're starting today. He goes, I'm going to have meals at your door by the time you get home. So this is where my head was at at the time. So I look over to my left and I see a five guys. So I was like, this is the swan song. I pull in, got a double cheeseburger, a bag of fries. sat there and indulged right there in the in the parking lot and that was it after that it was get to work

and um i put out all the dedication that i had into um changing my life around and trying to make make better choices and to get my my happiness back was that was the main thing try to get somewhere happy in my life again after feeling so down and um so i piecemilled together a tiny gym in my my garage and i started thinking to myself like i needed i didn't have anything workwise going on. I needed something. I needed a goal. I needed something to try to attain. So I said to myself, why don't I try to come back to wrestling? Wow. Very few people knew that I was going to attempt it. So that's when I decided to piecemeal, like I said, a little gym in my garage since all the gyms were closed at the time. And,

I just started finding, like, I ordered some stuff on Amazon. I went to play it again in sports. I was just, you know, it was so hard to find things for home gyms and stuff at the time. So I was, I was just, I literally had this little tiny gym in my garage, and I would just go out there, and in the summer, spring and summer in Florida, you're in the garage and 100 plus degree heat, and it also became a battle against myself. And every day that challenge was,

I could beat this heat and get this workout done. And from that, I remembered Adam and I discussing planking before, and I was like, it's a ridiculous exercise. It looks silly to me. I don't think it does anything. And he's like, no, you should try it, whatever. So, again, with the small amount of equipment I had, I decided, well, let me try this planking, see what happens. So I dropped down, I started plank, and I couldn't even hold a plank for 30 seconds.

Wow. And I'm like, I'm supposed to be an athlete and I can't even hold a plank. Again, another embarrassing moment where I was by myself. And I became at that moment obsessed with planking. And I did it. I started doing it, you know, holding it for 30 seconds. Then, you know, I do two sets of 30 seconds and three sets of 30 seconds. And I'd hold it for 45 seconds.

add sets onto that. Next thing you know, I'm holding a plank for four, five minutes at a time. This is down the road, obviously, and also with changing my nutrition and my mind frame and my mindset and those sorts of things. And I just thought my body started to change at the time at 47 years old. Like I had chiseled abs and I'd never had abs like that before in my life. And at that point, and also like, you know, other parts of my body felt better from planking. It's a whole body engaging as far as the exercise go. And to me, my personal opinion is it's the most, it's the perfect exercise, I think. Every muscle in your body is basically engaged when you're doing it and doing it right.

And, you know, I just, I remember being out in that hot garage. And a lot of times when I'm on a mat or something, my arms would start to slide away. And then I would have to, I'd lose the position. And it would, to me, it would take something wherever I had to reset. Yeah. So I remember thinking, man, if there's something that I could hold on to to keep from slipping when you, when you're sweaty and those sorts of things. So when I happen to meet the group that I'm working with now,

and we started fast forward getting back into wrestling, and the opportunity came to work with the group that we're working with now in Pure Plank. And I basically had told them my idea about having handles and having a board with better padding, like getting down on the floor. And like, you know, especially with being a wrestler, with having, you know, divids out of your elbow and, you know, any point in time your shoulders could be sore or whatever. It was just a way to, and also like a very great thing that kind of came up out of this that

we didn't even realize, you know, for me, the handles were to just hold you in position and make sure you were in the proper position at all times was that we found that if you grip, the harder you grip the handles while you're planking, it actually intensifies the workout, which is crazy. It's an intense work. You guys sent me one and I've been using it since I got it. It's crazy. By the way, you guys also set us up with a coupon code, CVV,

if anybody listening or watching wants to grab a pure plank. They've been selling like crazy. Yeah, I mean, it's, well, that was the goal was to put something out that will help people, you know, and after everything that I went through and I kind of came through in the other side and getting my career back. And I give a lot of that to planking and changing my mindset and my body and putting me in the right space. And again, you know, when I, when, when, when I think about it now, where I was, I refused to ever go back to that again. I won't let myself get back to that again.

I refuse to be anything less than the best version of myself ever again. And that's what I wanted to create is a tool to help people find the best version of themselves. And here you are now at 50 years old in the best shape of your life. Yep. It's pretty impressive. Yeah, it's crazy. You know, it's, uh, you know, it's also just his commitment. And, um, Being consistent. Consistency is the key. And if I can give anybody an advice, stay consistent. The shirt that you wear, outwork everyone, it's not just a catchphrase. Like, it's how you will live your life, too. Yeah. Well, I've always felt like I've always had a bit of a chip on my shoulder. I've always felt like, you know, not being the biggest, the fastest, the strongest. You know, I always always felt like I was going to have to, I was going to have to work a little bit harder. And I used to have a saying, every time.

I went into an arena, I would get out of a car, whether it was a live event, a paperview or a TV, I step out of the car. And in my head, I would say to myself, today they're going to know how good you are. Wow. And that was just something to motivate myself because, like I said, I always felt like I was fighting from underneath, so to speak. And that was just my mindset that I was going to just keep fighting. It's interesting when you're in a tag team because fans will gravitate to one person or the other. You're either an edge person or you're a Christian person.

You're a Jeff person or you're a mad hearty person. And it's just funny how like, I don't know, I always don't tell Adam this, but I was always a Christian guy. But I don't blame you, to be honest. And it's just funny how like he's either living in your shadow if fans like you more than him or vice versa. How do you win fans over that might not be a Christian person? Well, again, it's just, I just go up there and you can't control. You know, you have to have thick skin in this business or any when you're out there in front of people because, you know, you're going to read things about yourself that aren't flattering that you don't like. People are always going to have an opinion especially now with social media.

People just will say whatever they want and say things about you. And you just got to keep going out there and doing your thing, putting in hard work and grinding. That's what I've done my whole career. If people appreciate it, they do. If they don't, they don't. That's where I'm at this stage of my career. If people don't like me, I don't really care. there is no reason you would ever need to remember this,

but this isn't the first time we've met. This is 2001. Oh, I've seen this. I've posted this. First of all, what was going on with that jacket choice? What a jacket? What is that made of? I don't even know.

I feel like if you came too close to a flame, you would just burst. It also looks like it's seven sizes too big for me. So I waited in, this is February 1st, 2001. That is crazy. In Toronto, at Pladium in Toronto when that still exists. I waited in line for six hours. And the thing was, it was you, Kurt Angle, and Tristratus. I don't know if you remember that event.

I vaguely remember there's some, but it's like, man, that's really crazy. Yeah, do you remember signing these? That's my really old signature. My first signatures when I was in the WWA. The funny thing is it was, and Jim Ross signed this thing on the back. Nice. I don't even meet Jim Ross. Someone gave that to me.

But this was an event, like it was just like, it was just like, like the XFL launch party. You guys were doing like a private signing, like a VIP thing and like someone snuck us in. We weren't even going to get to meet you guys. That's crazy. So here we are now, 23 years later.

Yeah. And, you know, you're obviously very successful as well with what you're doing. And, you know, we talked a little bit before we started this and, you know, it sounds very similar to when you're trying to make in wrestling,

like traveling these, these roads and, you know, doing your show in smaller places and trying to, trying to build up a name and a following. So, you know, congratulations to you. and everything you've accomplished. Thank you. And there's something about like two Canadians

sitting down and being able to go, look at us now. We're the best of what we do. Damn right. You really are. You're doing the best work of your career right now. I appreciate it. Do you feel like it? I feel like it. 100%. What is it about this stage of your career you're in right now? Well, I didn't want to leave. So like I said, when I got my career back after being retired for seven years, it was a gift to get it back. And, And, but it wasn't just enough to get it back for me. And, okay, I got it back. That's great.

Now it's like, how far can we push it? How far can we go with it? I had seven years of lost time to make up for. I didn't feel like I'd accomplished everything that I accomplished. Was I content with what I accomplished? Yes. But did I feel like that I'd accomplished everything that I could accomplish? Not even close.

So the goal was even to prove at an advanced age that, you know, you can still go out there and do it if you apply yourself. And you push yourself and, you know, it's taking chances and risks too, right? Yeah, sometimes you have to go and do things that other people are unwilling to do to stand out. And that's what I'm doing. You've pushed the envelope a lot. And I'm happy to be sitting here right now to let you know that my father is a very healthy man and he's alive and well, and I'm very grateful for that. That's interesting.

Yeah. Yeah. But you could have a stepfather. I could, but Dirk Van Vliet is a good man. Well, anybody named Dirk sounds like a stand-up individual. What a name, right, Dirk, Dirk family. Are there moments with the work you've done in A.E.W. Would you feel like I can't believe they're letting me say this?

Well, not really, because I've never told anybody what I'm going to say. I've never had it cleared with anybody. I've never asked anybody. I just go out there and do it. And you have to, it's, it's one of those things, you know, you like I said, you have to be willing to go places that others are unwilling to go in order to stand out, especially this day and age. And, you know, I saw an opportunity that I could jump on and I took it and I wrote it and sometimes things happen. You're not expecting to happen. And I said one phrase and it turned into a wildfire.

and I just embraced it and ran with it. Do you think maybe you've gone too far with any of the things you've said? Um, I don't apologize for anything that I've said. Poor jungle boy. Come on. Well, I mean, you know,

he's, uh, he had to be brought down a notch, you know? But now look at him, you know? He's, uh, he's obviously taking some influence. And what I taught him is, is, it took him a little bit of time to figure it out, but it got on him.

He's finally figured. it out. I honestly haven't even talked to him since we wrestled in San Francisco however long. Wow. I saw him once after that. How good does it feel at this stage of your career to now be able to drop F-bombs on TV? Yeah. I mean, it feels, I mean, that's, you know, that's kind of locker room talk, right? Like, that's kind of how I'll walker room is kind of, you, you know, sometimes, you know, I'll be home and I'll say something. I'll be like, I'll hear in the other room, dad. I'm like, oh, God, okay.

But it's, you know, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's not even so much the being able to say it. It's having the freedom to express how I want this to be portrayed on television. You know what I mean? Adam and I, when he came back after Russell Dream, the infamous, am I allowed to swear on the show? Of course. The infamous go fuck yourself. You know, when he hugged me and, you know, the most of the time, 99.9, actually, percent of the time, you hear to somebody say no, yes or no. I wanted to let people's jaws on the floor with my response. Something so at a lot of feel that they weren't going to believe that was my response.

This is my life, my childhood lifelong friend. Yeah. Closer than friends, brothers, you know. And I just wanted some. something that would just, like I said, get people talking. And it did. So. The reaction was huge. Like this turned into something way bigger than just that moment. Yeah. Was that what you expected from that? I expected it to be big. I don't know if I expected it to be as viral as it was. You know, even, like it went beyond wrestling. Yeah, it did. Yeah. It went beyond wrestling. And then you're seeing, you know, like, I was at a, I was at a concert, a tool concert.

And I went in to watch sound check. And the guitarist, Adam Jones, I could see him whispering to his security guy that knew that I was there. And he pointed over to me, and he's playing, getting ready for his big show, he looks at me and goes, go fuck yourself from the stage.

So, I mean, yeah, it resonated with people, you know? Prize Picks is America's number one fantasy sports app with more than five million members. It's the most fun and exciting way to get in on the action while you watch your favorite sports and players. You just pick more or less on two or more player stats for your shot to win up to

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medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other. qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment and before undertaking a new health care regimen including e-ES system i feel like i mean you were doing great work the stuff with jungle boy i feel like really took it to another level talking about his his late legendary father then it turned into the stuff with nick wayne right yeah like i said i don't even know how this happened it just it just did and you know when um you know it was like not i'm like i'm like when a shark senses blood in the water, you attack it. So that's what happened. You know, when

it was this, to me, I saw the, I saw an opportunity and I attacked it, you know, and, um, you know, you, like I said, the only way to stand out to me in this day and age is, is to be different. And it's hard to be different when a lot of things have been done or are being done, you know. So, and it's a very much a copycat business, you know, you, if something's working, you see people start to do it. And I'm seeing the influence that a lot of characters, not just on our show, but on other shows as well. You know, so when that happens, you start saying, okay, what I'm doing is working here. It feels like nothing's off limits. Like, your daughter's not even off limits.

Well, that was another one where I was like, let's get some people talking here. How do we do that? Yeah, just do something that nobody expects. Kick my daughter out of the building. Yeah. But it was like, you know, get her out of the scene. But that wasn't enough. And they had her thrown out of the building.

So it's like just doing things that are unsavory. And like I said, you know, unapologetic and going places nobody else is willing to go. How do you keep pushing this forward? Like, how do you keep coming up with new stuff then? I just, it's weird, you know, it's like, I don't even know. I just like a lot of times I'll be at the curtain and I will be like, tonight's night, I have nothing to say. And we're in commercial break and I'm coming up on the other end. And I'll be listening there like, I'm going to get exposed.

tonight. I have nothing to say. And then I go out there and I find something to say and I just jump on it. Where does it come from? I don't know. It's like something happens when you, when, when, when you step through that curtain. You can't explain it. And yeah, I don't know. I'll just look for one thing or one response from the crowd and then I'll just kind of roll with that and go with it. It's, it's so good. It's, it's amazing that you're at this stage of your career and you're somehow continuing to get better all the time. Yeah, well, like I said, I wasn't content with just, I wasn't just content with, with getting it back. And, you know, the first year, year and a half was kind of getting my feet wet again, kind of getting the feel for it, the lay of the land. You know, a new upstart company,

AEW that I'm very happy and proud to be a part of. So, you know, kind of after that feeling out process, I was like, all right, you know, I've kind of played nice here for a little bit. Now it's time to take over. back to the day that you found out you weren't allowed to wrestle again. Yeah, that was a tough one. So I had been, I had gotten a few concussions and they were in a relatively short span of a few months. Do you remember one specifically that was maybe really bad? Yeah, I remember a couple that were really bad. One being in the Battle Royal, where I won the chance to wrestle Alberto Del Rio for the World Heavyweight Championship after Adam retired. I was knocked out cold in that,

and that battle royal. Wow. And, um, do you remember anything from that match? Well, I remember most of it. And then Ray,

uh, there was, came down to myself, Ray Mysterio and, um, um, Jack Swagger, I believe.

And, um, Ray hit me in the springboard body press and landed right on my head, knock me out. I was out cold. And, uh, that was one I remember.

Another one I was wrestling Randy, live on raw and I remember taking a shoulder tackle just a basic shoulder tackle and I don't know what I was thinking about. My head just kind of snapped off the mat a little bit and it just kind of rattled me a little bit and then you're just trying to get your bearings and then something else happened. I got thrown out of the ring and I hit my head again on the apron because I was still a little not with it. We were going into commercials. I had the commercial to kind of try to get my bearings back and then I remember coming back from the break I got superplexed and when I got superplexed that was out cold. Well, I don't remember the rest of the match. So those are two that I remember

pretty vividly that I didn't have any recollection, recollection after of, like, I remember up to a certain point. And then after that, it was blank. So then where does it go from there? Do you start to see doctors? Yeah. So then after the, so the last one that happened, I was kicked in the back of the head. I didn't lose consciousness, but I did have spins. Like I was spinning and I couldn't stop spinning and things like that. And so they sent me to the Concussion Center at USF, University of South Florida and Tampa. And they suggested, at that point in time, too,

I'm pretty sure that I had post-concussion syndrome, and I probably should have maybe even rested before I started to do these other tests because I think I was still having issues, obviously. Anyway, I failed the tests. and I didn't think anything, but they didn't tell me that I failed them at that point in time. So then I had to go to Washington,

and this was right before a WrestleMania. And I think I was in a multi, some sort of multi-man match. I can't remember what I was, but I saw all the names on the board except for mine for this match. And I was like, that's weird. Yeah. So I went into the training room and I was like,

does anybody know why my name's not on this list? And they said, I think somebody's going to talk to you a little bit later. Oh. And I was like, that doesn't sound good. So yeah, I got pulled aside a little bit later and they said they were going to medically disqualify me. So it was taken out of my hands. I had no choice in the matter. I couldn't say, okay, yeah, do you want to rest for six months?

Do you know, they're just like, we're medically disqualifying you? You're not allowed to do this anymore. And in that moment, are they saying this is a permanent thing or we can re-it? They said it was permanent. They, you know, can we reassess this in six months or a year? I never, yeah, and I never, I never was sent back to have it reassessed after. any amount of time, to be honest with you. And so that's why I took it at face value.

And just thought that was probably what was best for my health and all those sorts of things. So then when I got myself back in physical shape and where I wanted to be, I decided that I would go back to the same place that retired me at the USF Concussion Center. And that I wouldn't tell anybody about it. And, you know, I would just see what I would see what. happened from from that so I went and I did the tests and the doctor came in after the test and he said um your test scores were great. He said you were above average or average on everything. You weren't below average on any of your test scores. He said what are you looking to do? And I said, I'm looking to finish my career on my own terms. And I said um if you can um if you if you tell me that I'm crazy then it's fine.

I'm in no different position than I was when I woke up this morning. But if you tell me that I can do this, it's opening up doors and opportunity for me. Changes everything. And he said, I don't think you're crazy at all. He said, if you want to do this, you can do it. Wow. And so then I was motivated even more to get myself back in shape. And I'm of the opinion of I've never been one to be like, hey, if you do this for me, I'll do this for you.

I've never been that kind of guy. I've always been like, this is what I bring to the table. So then I was super motivated to get back in the best. of my life and then go back to whatever entity it was and say, I'm ready to go. If you hire me, this is what you get. Instead of, hey, if you hire me, I'll get back in shape in a couple months. You know, you can't, you can't do that. That's not the right way to approach it. Were you cleared when you had that unsanction match with regular one? And that's also one of the reasons. But you took a punt.

Well, those, yeah, probably not the smartest thing to do, but there was ways around it at the time in the, in the performance center. Yeah. So that's what we did. But I was not happy about that day because I felt that I could do more. And then when the ratings came in and it was the highest rated show in a long time, I was like, wow, people really thought I was going to wrestle. And they were excited to see me wrestle. Yeah. And I feel like I kind of let them down.

Yeah. So that was another thing that was in my head that that was just how I want to go out. Do I really want that to be my most unsanctioned? Do I want that to be the last memory of people, the last memory of people have of me being in the ring? Wasn't. Also, that whole era of like, you know, you return to the Rumble in 2021,

you have this unsanctioned match. And the world was in a different spot of that point in time. But you're doing this in front of like screens of people. There's no actual crowd energy that you're able to feed off of. You know, it was a little bit funny at that point in time when I came back for the Rumble because you could see people on the TV screen. So in a strange way, and they filtered in noise,

so it sounded like there was a crowd there. So that made it that part easier. And you could actually see people on the screens. It was strange, yes, but you could see people. Which was, and when I walked out, I could see people's faces on those screens

react to me when I came out, and that was pretty cool. There's nothing like hearing your entrance theme. Like your theme, it's a great entrance thing. But it's also like, you know, it's also one of those things where you're like, it's been a minute.

Does anybody you don't even care? It's me, you know? And then that's just a performer. mindset of like, is anybody going to care? You know, that's kind of how you, that's for me anyway. But with the reaction that you got returning of the Rumble in 2021, how was there not an offer from WWE to do something more full-time? Well, I think we were back and forth a little bit. And we, there was, we never got as far as numbers or anything like that. I think it was more like scheduling stuff, like what I was willing to do. And I think we were trying to get some traction there. And,

you know, a friend of mine, John Moxley, called me and we were talking. And when he found out that I wasn't signed, he was blown away by that. And he said, you should have a conversation with Tony Kahn. And I was like, I don't know. And he said, well, he said, you're actually an idiot if you don't. He said, you hold all the cards here. And he said, you have the ability to pick where you've, the stage where you finish your career,

you should at least have a conversation, don't you think? I said, yep. And I said, if Tony wants to talk to me, I'd love to have a conversation with him. The next day was, no, sorry, it was that day. It was a Wednesday. So they were doing TV that day. And when their show was on, I got a text from Tony.

Wow. Yeah, saying, hey, how are you? I said, I'm great. How are you? And he said, should we talk? And I said, I think we should. And so he called me the next day, and we talked on the phone for almost three hours. And halfway through that call, I knew that this, that AEW was the place for me.

And not only that, but working for a guy like Tony Con. And so we, yeah, that's basically how it all came to fruition. It was just from that one phone call. And then we talked one other time later in the week. And then that was it. What was the timeline between you being in a WWE ring to you debuting in AW? It was pretty close. It was January.

It was like a month and a bit, maybe. Yeah. Less than a month and a half. And there was, I mean, it was hyped. There was a lot of hype behind your debut. And then Tony Kahn says you're one of his favorite wrestlers of all time. So now the bar set real high. Yeah.

Yeah. And you know how wrestling fans are, right? Nothing's ever good enough. So, you know, when it's. when my name was announced, there were some people, obviously, that were, you know, thinking it was going to be somebody else, maybe hoping it was going to be somebody else. I mean, there was a lot of people that were happy. It was me, too. Of course. But, you know, when you do something like that, that's not a surprise when you hype something, you're giving people the opportunity to have an opinion. Yeah. And either good or bad, and they're going to voice that after, right? But it wasn't just like, here's a big surprise or here's a big debut. It was, here's a big debut. And then they gave some qualifiers, right? He's a future Hall of Fame. Okay, well, well, it's got to be one of these. two or three or four people. And I wasn't, I wasn't shocked that it was you, but I'm like, damn right. Of course.

Yep. And like I said, you know, and, you know, I heard all those, those things that were set after. And, you know, that maybe it wasn't big enough for the hype and all those sorts of things. And, you know, when we were doing these press conferences, after I took the TNT championship, which was basically thrown the scrap heap, and I revived that title to make it at one point, and I'll die on this hill. that it was as prestigious, if not more prestigious in the world title when I had that run. And, you know, we remained eventing a pay-per-view, wrestle dream with it.

And we were sitting in the scrum after, and I had my opportunity to basically, and to say, you know, there was people and there was probably a lot of people in this room that thought that the signing was overhyped. And I just wanted to make them eat their words. How could anyone be upset about it? Like, nothing they said about that tease was untrue. Of course, you're a future Hall of Famer. Well, like I said, when you give people, when you promote something, you give the people a chance to be let down. Either happy or let down. So it's going to be either were.

And if it was a surprise, if I just showed up out of the blue as a surprise, university, I probably would have been like, oh, this is amazing. But when you, like I said, when you give people a choice, it changes things. But I also understand why Tony did it because he's a promoter and he wants to get people to tune it. When you talk about ending your career in your terms, what does that look like for you? Well, it means, like I said, getting it back and going as far as I could with it. And, you know, we have, I'm not sure when this is going to air, but, you know, coming up this coming weekend in Las Vegas, we have double or nothing. And I'm main eventing the pay-per-view. So I've gone from, you know, being retired to now main-eventing pay-per-views.

And arguably like doing 100% the best character work of my career in ring. I feel like, you know, maybe, you know, obviously the body's a little bit more beat up than it used to be, but I feel like I'm smart enough to use my tools that I have to my advantage and, you know, enhance other people's tools as well. Do you think about how much longer you want to do this for? I always said that I would do it until it wasn't fun. And that was my barometer on it. So how can I not be having fun right now? So it's still fun right now?

It's still fun. It's still fun. Yep. So is it, do you have a timeline in your mind? I have no timeline. I signed a contract. You know, I think I have another three years left on this contract. So we'll get to the end of that and then see what happens. But, you know, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge. I feel like I don't know everything, but I know a lot.

And I feel like I think the business differently and I lay out matches and I see matches differently than other people do. So I feel like I would like to, at some point, you know, when the time is right to obviously, you know, get back to the business that has done what it's done for me. Sounds like with a lot of what you're saying, like you feel like you needed to prove yourself your whole career. I've always felt like I need to prove myself.

Was that the reason you left WWE for TNA? Yes. Was there something specific that happened in WWE where you went, they're never going to see me as anything more than what I am right now? Yeah, it was the stuff that I did with Sina. And then right after that, I did a little TV program with Batista. And we went over to the UK, and he was the biggest baby-faced star in the company. And I was supposed to be heel.

And they booed him out of the building. And they cheered for me. And when that aired in the United States, you didn't hear any. We want Christian. Batista sucks chance. Just put it that way. So after we came back, he said, what are they doing with you, man? He goes, they have to do something.

And I was like, I don't know. And then after that, when we did that, and then the triple threat thing happened with myself and Sina and Jericho, you know, when they inserted Chris into that to kind of, maybe because they didn't see me as a big enough star at the time to be able to carry that. So they added Chris in. That bothered me.

And I was like, you're not even going to give me the chance to prove that I can do this. You're going to just add somebody else in here? So that was kind of me of the writing on the wall. I was like, nothing's going to change unless I change it myself. Was it that they still saw you as a tag team competitor? I don't know. I really don't know. And it's, you know, there's all these rumors and stuff like that. I don't know.

You know, I can't put too much time or thought into that. You know, it is what it is. I feel like everybody's path is different. Everything happens for a reason. Like people had always compared myself in edge, obviously, and we're always going to be compared to each other because we're of our tag team. But the reality is, you know, we both had great careers if you separate them. like legendary careers honestly.

And so yeah, I just, I don't, man. I just felt like that I got off my train of thought again. Well, you going to TNA was so big at that time. Nobody else had really jumped ship. Because this was before Kurt Engel. I think a lot of people don't remember that. No, it was well before Kurt. And, you know, and for me, they were,

they were gracious enough to give me a platform. And people think that because I left TNA, that I didn't enjoy my time in TNA, I did enjoy my time in Tina. I enjoyed it a lot. And I really enjoyed working for Dixie Carter. And it was just, I knew that it was, it was to get me back to a higher level at some point. And, you know, they did everything they could to keep me.

Kudos to them. But it was, I was 35 at the time. And it was either, if I don't go back now, I'm never going back. That's how I looked at it. And I felt like I just saw it unfinished business. And, but like I said, like I said, I enjoyed. my time in TNA, they gave me a platform and they gave me every opportunity to work at the top of the card and give myself the confidence to prove to myself that I could do it. So what do you think you did there in TNA that allowed WWE to see you with a fresh set of eyes?

I think a lot of it was me growing up. I had a lot of growing up to do. You know, I was 24 when I started on the road with WWE, eight years straight without a break. I just needed to, I forgot what it was like to beat myself almost sometimes because you're just, you're on the go. nonstop, like missing, you know, family events, missing birthdays, anniversaries, family vacations. You're missing, you know, family reunions. You're missing everything. So I just, I needed to to just be who I used to be for a little bit. And then, it doesn't get talked about a lot with what you guys do for a living. That is the price you pay for being a professional restaurant. I did a radio interview once. And the guy said to me, this is the best way I've ever heard anybody put it. He said, would you do what you do for free? And I said, and I said, would you do what you do for free?

and I said, I would, but don't tell anybody that. And he goes, so it's safe to say you get paid for the inconveniences in your life that your job presents. That's like travel, like being away from your family. I said, and I told them, I said, that's the best way I've ever heard anybody describe it. We get paid for the inconvenience of what we do. It's almost like the bribe of like, okay, so if you missed three birthdays this year and two dance recitals, we'll pay you X amount of dollars. Yeah, yeah. Something like that.

Wow. Yeah, it's amazing how different your first run in WWE was versus when you came back and you were doing the work. Yeah, like I said, I was a little bit older, a little more mature, you know, in the ring and out. So, you know, it was, I was just better equipped when I went back to handle that grind and all the things that come with it. And, but, you know, that was one of the things, too, when I went back and I did the rumble.

You know, it also made me realize that, well, maybe I wasn't equipped to do that anymore there. And that was another reason why I was so open to exploring AW. You never pinned anyone to become the World Heavyweight Champion. Think about it. You won the latter match. All right. And then you beat Randy Orton by disqualification. No one's ever done that, though.

That's true. But never like a one, two, three. No, I guess not. I didn't even think about it to now, thanks. Now I could put those with an asterisk, great. Still the champion, though. Still the champion. Yeah.

Where did this come from? It just, like, it happened by accent. Like, I just came out and it was actually right after I started the thing where I started talking about the peeps. Yeah. And I came out on the ramp and I looked up and there was a whole row and they all had Christian's peeps written out and they each had one letter of it. But it was all the way across a row.

So I just put my hand up to let them know that I saw the whole thing. And then they just kind of went from there. But I also used to talk a lot when I came out. Like I'd always be gabbing and talking, blah, blah, and somebody asked them, what do you say? And I'm like, I honestly have no clue. I just start talking when I come out. And it's just like just rambling. Like, I really don't know what I say.

Are the actual sentences? Yeah, they are, but I just think it could be anything, you know? It's like. So. Johnny Gargano does this now. Do you have any sort of discussion with him? No. No, I didn't.

But I know that he was a fan. So, you know, he can have it. It's all this. I've always loved you finisher. I loved when it was called The Unpretier because it is very much something you drop someone on their face. They're not pretty anymore.

How'd you come up with the Unpretier slash Kill Switch? So I came up with it at the time. I'm a student of the game. And when I was coming up, I'd watch a lot of tapes from different wrestling promotions. And I was watching a Japanese, I believe it was an All Japan tape. And Tommy Rogers was on there.

and he did the Toma Kazi. And he just did it, he didn't use it as a finish. He just did it as like a spot in a match. And I was like, hmm. But the way that he grabbed the guy from behind and turned him was intriguing to me. I couldn't figure out how he did that.

And I watched it over and over and over again. It was a time of VCR, so I had to do the old, push the buttons to frame by frame it. And when I saw how he turned him, but then he would always run two or three steps, kind of jump in the air and do it. When I slowed down the turn,

and when it stopped in this position where the guy's arms or over your shoulder, it just happened to stop in that position. I went, I was looking at it, and I thought to myself, if the bottom just fell out right there, it becomes like a pile driver. It looks super devastating.

It can be super devastating. And it's something that I can do to anybody no matter what size they are. So that's where I kind of adopted it. And I kind of, I honed it a little bit in a gym with just me and a couple friends. And I didn't use it anywhere. on any indie for probably three years.

I never used it in a match. I didn't use it until the first time I used it in WWE because I didn't want somebody else to steal it. That's how much I cared about that move and how much I wanted to be my finish. And plus somebody else had once stolen my finish. So that was... What was it?

Mark Morrow stole my TKO. It's not a funny story. Yeah, we were training. He was trained to come back from an injury and I was training at Brad Hart's Place in Calgary. and when we were training, I did a version of the diamond cutter where I would scoop the guy up on my shoulders,

but I'd spin him off and hit a cutter out of the air. So I did it in the match, and Mark was sitting on the floor watching. He said, hey, can you do that again? So I did it again. And then he said to me, goes, hey, man, you want to grab a bite to eat? And I was like, sure.

So when we grabbed bite to eat? And then we were just talking about some Japanese wrestling and some different stuff. And then he said, hey, I'm going back in about a month. I said, okay, cool. And he goes, would you mind if I use that finish? And I went, and then I'm like, this is a guy that's already signed. He's already there.

He's in WW at the time, right? No, he's in WWE. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. This is when he was coming back with the boxer gimmick, you know, with the shorts and the jacket and the whole deal. And so I was like, what are you supposed to say? You know, this guy's, he's where I want to be.

Yeah. And like, you know, so I was like, yeah, I'll think of something else. Go ahead. Use it. Take it. So he was nice. enough to buy me dinner, but he, uh, that's all it costs. Yeah, but you know, like he said, everything happens for a reason. And, and, um, this, this finish suits me much more.

And it's also, you always hear people talk about how find a finisher that you can do on anybody, that you can do on someone who's small or someone is as big as Paul White. Yep. And you're right. You couldn't do the TKO on someone like Paul White or Brock Lesnar or someone. Nope. So, yeah, that's, that was an important aspect of it. They stole it from you. They stole it from you. Yeah. That's all right. So I was at

WrestleMania 18. I always liked to tell this story. I was 18 at WrestleMania 18. You worked on WrestleMania 18. What was it like being able to work in your hometown? It was cool. It was, it was nice. It's, you know, it's always hard at home

because there's always a lot of friends and family. And it's great, but it's also difficult because you're trying to get in the right headspace, but you also have people calling you, texting you, nonstop, thinking they're the only person that called you, text you. Orangeville, is that your hometown?

But you grew up in Kitchener? No, I was born in Kitchener. I went to Laurier. Did you well? Yeah, yeah. Nice. So Orangeville is what? Maybe 45 minutes, an hour from Toronto?

Yeah. Yeah, it depends on traffic. Yeah, well, but it could be two hours. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I've been down there in 45 minutes. And last time I was up there, I visited my dad. And then I drove downtown. This was before the match without him, actually, in March.

And it took me over two hours to drive downtown because of traffic. it was bad. What did it mean to be there in Toronto, WrestleMania 18, your hometown, and you're working a legend, work DDP? Yeah. No, it was anytime you get on the big show,

WrestleMania was, you know, it was important because you work all year for that. And, you know, we managed to start a story that had a little bit of legs and people seemed to kind of grab onto and enjoy at the time.

And, you know, we kind of needed each other at the time too because Dallas was having a hard time adjusting to WWE and the style and those sorts of things. And sometimes when you get into your head like that, you overthink things. And I think that's where he was at. And he'd probably tell you the same thing. Yeah. I mean, and we've talked a lot about how like with him, how WCW guys just didn't get a fair chance. Yeah. So, you know, and they had a way. So then like I remember, you know, he and I were put together and we just, you know, we just had a like.

I guess a trust right off the bat. And I think he realized that my mindset is always to do what's best for the match in the show. And that's what I did. So he trusted me. And from that, we had an amazing series of matches. And he got his confidence back. And we were off to the races. Wow.

Do you remember being backstage or watching the monitor when there was that moment at the start of the Rock Hogan match? Yeah. I mean, well, I don't remember. I remember walking out and kind of watching it from the side of the stage because you need to feel those moments to me. You need to feel the energy and you don't quite get the same feel if you're watching on a monitor. So a lot of times for those big moments, I'll walk out, I'll find a space to walk out and watch it in person so I can feel the energy. Yeah. And it was unlike anything, I still haven't felt anything like that.

So you mentioned it there, but let's talk about that match that you had with Adam in Toronto. It's called the Scotia Bank Arena now, right? Yeah. I just known as the ACC. It was, to me, like, that was the perfect venue for it. You know, it's the other arena, it's, you know, where the, where the Leaves play, was it Scotiabank Center? A Scotia Bank Arena, okay. That's, that's what I'm talking about.

Yeah, yeah, the other one, used to be Rico Coliseum, but now it's Pepsi or Coke. I haven't, I haven't been there. But it's, but they'll always be Rico to me. Always be Skydome to me. Yeah, but the, like, you know, the other one, it's great and all that, but it's so big. And it's, um, this one was just, it's more intimate. It feels like everybody is like right on top of you. It's a little bit grittier of a building.

It's a little bit dirtier of building. It just has more character. It works perfectly for the type of match you had. Right. And it just, to me, that was, it was the right venue for that match. The hockey style fight. Yeah. Yeah. My skin's still itching from putting on a Bruins jersey.

Yeah. You got to do what you got to do. I mean, the Leafs. I mean, it's, don't get me started. It's me neither. I haven't won the Stanley Cup since there were five other teams in the league. Yeah, right?

Jeez. Well, it's breaking my heart for 50 years, so why stop now? It's hard being a Leafs fan. Yeah. Yeah, that's for sure. It is hard being a Leaves fan. How much input, how much say, how much, how much were you able to sway Adam to come over to AEW?

I didn't have to swim at all. Because I know that, I mean, I chatted with him recently when he was on the show. He had both contracts in front of him. He had an opportunity to stay with WWE or to go with AEW. So for me, I don't interfere in people. And if I'm asked for an opinion, I'll give an opinion, but I won't give it in a way that would sway. You know, at the end of the day, when you're talking about something like that, when it's somebody's livelihood in their life and, you know, they have a,

I know everybody thinks about it in different ways, but I don't know he has a way that he thinks about his legacy and all those sorts of things. I don't want to interfere with that. And you make people that make their own decisions what's best for them and their family, but you can just give them the tools they need to make the right decision for them and that's what I try to do. And now you get to hang out with your best friend all the time.

Former best friend, former best friend. Yeah. I'm sorry. We don't, he's obviously, like I said, the good thing is with him coming, everybody realizes that I'm levels above him. Yeah. Yeah.

So. that's it's too bad what happened to your friendship you guys were close yeah yeah

yeah yeah now it can't be me in the ring and it can't be me in the plank board so is that right

yeah maybe the next time it'll be a plank match that'd be definitely interesting yeah I don't think there'd be any

boring chance at all during that just two guys doing planks yeah in the middle of the ring do you have any do you feel like

with the work you do in the ring now, you have any residual effects from the concussions you had? Nope. That's amazing. Nope. I think in a weird way, those seven years gave me enough time to fully heal the right way. So in that respect, I'm glad that I took them up. I took the, I took the, had those years because if I'd maybe just take a year, maybe even two, it might not have been enough.

And, but yeah, knock on wood, I haven't had any issues at all. And I continue to get tested regularly and keep passing tests. with flying colors. During the time you were retired, how long did it take you to come to terms with, I guess this is my life now? Yeah, I mean, not long. You know, I don't want to feel sorry for myself.

I just was kind of like, okay, what's the next challenge here? What are we looking at? And I just, like I said, I'm the type of person that needs something to work towards or else, you know, it's a box of cheese that's on the couch every now. So I need something like that.

I need something to go after. I need a goal. I need, that's just how I'm wired. So that's kind of how it was. And what was it? What was that goal? What were you driving towards during those seven years? I was just trying to carve out some.

I was ultimately trying to carve out kind of much like what you're doing. I was trying to get on and be hosted. You know, I did enjoy acting and I did a little bit of acting. I still enjoy acting. It's a lot of fun. And I feel like I'm good at it. But I also want to. wanted to do other things. I didn't want to just be, I wanted to have a bunch of branches on the

same tree, so to speak, you know? So I was trying to do like, like you saw on the backstage, doing analyst work on the pay-per-view, pre-show panels, doing analyst work, did the podcast. So I was just trying to do different things like that, just trying to broaden my horizon. I was doing a little bit of acting still and things like that. And then we said not long after it all, and within a couple years because of the pandemic, all just kind of went away. Do you remember the original pitch that was presented to you for the first ever TLC match? First ever TLC, it was kind of, I don't really recall the pitch,

but I do recall the interesting, obviously the initials, right? And that's where it came from. And I was like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. That's a good hook for this match to give it, make it even feel bigger. And it was also a way to morph out of just doing ladder matches. And, you know,

adding, making the stakes of a ladder match feel bigger as well. It's just so brilliant. And I think a lot of fans may not put it together now, you know, almost 25 years later. It's T tables for the Dudleys, L ladders for the Hardys, and C chairs for Edge and Christian. And that's what you guys were known for. Yeah. Throw it all together into a match. And there's no bar, right?

Right. You guys can do whatever you want with it. And the first one is fantastic. But I'm sure you've heard this a thousand times. That second one is, it's legendary. Yeah. Yeah. And the more you do them too, you understand how to get more mileage out of them and how to tell the story within that match better because it can become a car crash. And you can't ever lose sight of the goal. The goal is to get to retrieve whatever it is above the ring. And a lot of people, they forget that and they're just doing all sorts of other things, taking themselves out of the match and a position when the prize is right above you. So no matter what you're doing in the match, that should be your focus at all times. Everything else is hindering you from getting there. but that should always be your goal to go up. So any chance you have an opportunity to go up, you go up.

For Edge, the moment everyone always points to is the spear off the ladder to Jeff Hardy. What's the moment for you that you always come back to from those matches? It was, honestly, it was the very first ladder match that kind of put us all on the, on the map, so to speak, with Matt and Jeff. at um was it fully loaded was that the i think i think so whatever the uh whatever the pay-per-view was in cleveland um i don't think it was fully loaded here we have all the world's information yeah right there let's see what we can come up there so i remember doing that and i remember um not knowing how the match was going to be received because we hadn't seen a tag team ladder match

before um on that stage anyway and when i came back for the curtain everybody received a standing ovation from our peers. No mercy, 99. No mercy, that was it. I don't know why I had a brain fart there, but they, I mean, look how much you've wrestled. Come on. The, um, but the, I remember coming back in,

when you're, your peers and everybody backstage from every department is basically standing there giving you a standing ovation. You're like, wow. Okay. I think we just did something special. Was there a certain moment in that match that you're especially proud of?

In that particular match? Yeah. Or guess any of the, Ladder matches or TLC matches. Yeah, I guess the fact that we just, that we were even able to pull it off. Because Adam was living in the Bahamas at the time and was stuck in Hurricane Storm. A hurricane storm flying and he got delayed somehow into Miami and had a drive from Miami to like Tampa. There was like some concern.

What is it was even going to make the show? So we were all, all three of us were there the day before, you know, working on things. And he literally showed up a few hours before the show started. And not a, like this was the first ever tag team ladder. match. So it could have went off the rails and gone the opposite way. But instead, we, we grabbed lightning in a bottle that night and it changed, changed everything for all of us. Yeah, it changed your lives. Like, and it's crazy. Here we are 25 years later. Yep. And it's still a thing people are always talking about. Yeah, I mean, I'll be at signings or something and I'll have

like a little kid come up to me talking to me about the TLC matches and the ladder match. So I'm like, I know you weren't born yet when that happened. My dad showed it to me. My parents sat down and and they wanted me to see this match. Wow. So parents are sitting there, a kid, their children down to watch these matches. That means we did something that we'll stay on the test of time. What's the biggest difference for you between Christian and Christian Cage? Well, that's the thing, too. People talk about Christian in WWE and this versus that.

They're completely separate entities in my mind. Christian Cage has never been in WWA. Christian has. But Christian isn't Christian Cage. And Christian, quite honestly, doesn't hold a candle to Christian Cage. It's not even close. What makes Christian Cage so much better? Because Christian Cage can just be who he wants to be.

Without any constraints, without any politics, without anybody telling me, say this, don't say that, do this, don't do that. It's me being me. Either you make it work or you fail. Either way, it's on my own. You're making it work. So.

I don't think there's been anything in this run that hasn't worked for you. Well, like I said, I just try to challenge myself every week. And I said it was a gift to get this back. And it wasn't just enough, like I said earlier, now I might even be repeating myself. That's fine. But I'm taking this as far as I can take it. Yeah, it's amazing.

It's been so great to be able to spend some time with you here. And again, Pure Plank is incredible. The code CVV if people want to say. some money on that. It's helped my workouts a ton. And I mean, look at the shape that you're in as a result. I think, too, more than anything, the feedback that we've gotten from, you know, we sold out our first, our first shipment is sold out. So we're on back order. We start shipping again June 1st, which is great. We weren't anticipating that, but it's been, it's, it's, it's, people like it, and they're enjoying it. And that was the goal is to give people a piece of equipment that will actually

help them, that actually works. And if I'm going to put my name to something, and I know Adam feels the same way. That's how it has to be. It has to be legit. Has to work. Has to help people. Or else I'm not interested. And it does all those things. Gratitudes of driving force in my life, I wake up every day. I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. It's something I do before I go to bed. And it's how I wrap up every episode. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as we sit here right now? Me, myself, and I is what Christian Cage would say. That's the perfect response. Thank you again, sir.

Appreciate you. Me myself and I. Such a good one with Christian. What a heel answer for the gratitude question. Me, myself, and I. Christian is severely underwritten. I mean, he's doing amazing work now, and I feel like he's finally getting his flowers,

but so good as a tag team wrestling. then his run in TNA. And like we mentioned this interview, he was the first real big name to come over. It was Kurt Engel that came over a year later, but in 2005, he was the first big name. Oh my gosh, that's a WWE guy.

He's here in TNA now, proved himself in TNA, came back to WWE where he was world champion there, forced to retire, returned, and now we get what he's doing in AW. He's really doing the best work of his career. Like he said, he's going to keep doing it until it's not fun anymore. So at the rate he's going right now, I feel like he's going to be doing it for quite some time.

And if you want to check out what Christian's talking about with Pureplank, the website is gopureplank.com. The link is in the show notes. And yeah, they set us up with the code CVV, if you want to save yourself a few dollars there. Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Tag us so we can share it out. He's at Christian the number four peeps. Christian four peeps.

I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And here's a quote from Roy T. Bennett to wrap things up here. Do not fear failure, but rather fear not trying. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one. For some more insight, we've got Mark Henry back on the show on Thursday. We will see you then.

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