Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Christopher Daniels: AEW's Fallen Angel Is Ageless

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

Christopher Daniels (@fachristopherdaniels) is a professional wrestler and also the Head of Talent Relations for All Elite Wrestling. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about going through the forbidden door to New Japan Pro Wrestling for his match against Gabriel Kidd at NJPW Strong RIVALS on Thursday, February 17 in Hollywood, CA. He also talks about wanted to be an actor before training to be a pro wrestler, working developmental matches for WWE, signing with TNA wrestling, being part of the only 5 star rated match in TNA history at Unbreakable 2005 with Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, his job as head of talent relations for AEW, his thoughts on retirement and much more! To get tickets for NJPW Strong visit: http://njpw1972.com For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blin. Oh, yeah, welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV Chris Van Fleet, and thank you for being back with us for another episode of the Chris and Chris show. Well, technically, it's the Christopher and Christopher Show. Christopher Daniels, Christopher Van Fleet. My mom is actually the only one who still calls me Christopher. You know, when I was growing up, it's a true story.

My friends would call the house and they'd say, oh, hi, is Chris there, please? And she'd say, no, Chris isn't here, but Christopher is. Oh, I love you, mom. And dad, love you guys so much. Love Christopher Daniels. So good to talk with him. And we mentioned it during this conversation, but he is truly the ageless wonder. I love it.

He has found the fountain of youth somewhere. Speaking of finding things, you can find him on Twitter at FF. F-A-C-Danyls, of course, for Fallen Angel Christopher Daniels. You can find him on Instagram at F-A-Crystalfer Daniels. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and if it's your first time here, please take a second to click follow or subscribe wherever you're listening. It would be so helpful as the show continues to grow, and as we continue to pump out two, three episodes every single week.

Our fan of the show is Guju Boys. I think that's how we pronounce it. G-U-J-U-Boys with a Z on the end. The best effin podcast out there. His shows are very interesting, especially with guests who come from the wrestling industry and also entertainment.

It is a must listen. Well, thank you so much for that. I read one review on every single episode from Apple Podcasts because that's where the reviews can be left. So if you have an iPhone, please go in there, leave a few words, leave a few emojis, click the five stars. And speaking of five stars, if you're listening on Spotify, they've got a rating system on Spotify. We're so close to hitting 400 ratings on there, which is pretty great because ratings just started on there like a month ago.

So thank you guys for that. You guys are the best. The show is turning three years old in June, and we couldn't have done any of this without you. I say this all the time, but I'm standing in my bedroom right now with the door closed. My microphone is perched up on top of my dresser. It would just be me and my dresser here if it wasn't for you. So thank you for inviting me into your ear holes on every single episode.

I always love sharing a conversation with this man. So please welcome the fallen angel. Christopher Daniels. The ageless, Christopher Daniels. Thanks for joining us. CTV, what's going on, pal? How are you?

I'm doing great. How's your eye, by the way? Still the same. I don't know if you could tell. Oh, my, of course we can tell. So, but it's all right, man. It's just but a flesh wound, as they would say in Montefython.

But I'm doing all right, man. Thanks for asking. It's more cosmetic than anything. I've been checked up a couple times. the vision's fine. It's just gnarly looking. And, uh,

yeah. This isn't affecting your vision in any way? No. No. Like when I talk to the doctor about it, he said that this on a, it can happen on occasion that, uh,

you know, hemorrhages just sort of don't drain or heal. And, um, you know, it doesn't like, because it doesn't have anything you do with the iris itself. It's just the,

the white of the eye that's sort of discolored. So, um, Yeah, I mean, it could be like this. It could dry up in a week, or it could be like this for a while. I have no idea. This is the first time it's ever stuck with me. I've had this injury before, not this eye, but I mean, I've had hemorrhages before from black eyes and things like that.

But for some reason, this one's just sticking. So this was the last match that you had on AEW television, right? This was the match with the Bucks. That was May 12. Yep. Yeah, we're coming up on nine months. So, oof. We're also coming up on nine months since the last time we saw you on AEW TV.

Yeah. Yeah, hopefully that changes soon. But, you know, the landscape of AEW is in constant flux, additions, subtractions. So, I mean, it's just a crowded field right now. And hopefully I can make my way back there. But, you know, there's no real timetable as to when that might be. So I'm sort of at the mercy of circumstance. But in the meantime, you have opened the forbidden door, and this is exciting.

I mean, you're doing- Yeah, I've got, somehow I got a key to that door, and I've sort of opened it a couple times for it up a couple different places, luckily. Yeah, and I mean, most recently, it's been New Japan Strong that we, you worked, you know, not, was that a month or two ago? And now again, next week. Oh, yeah, December. December, I had the match with Jay White.

And that was my first experience with New Japan Strong. itself and a real good experience man it's a real good group of guys a real good setup that they got going on and of course Jay White is an amazing wrestler you know I didn't get my hand raised that night but I felt like I gave him the best fight that he had in a while so so yeah man it was a good experience overall and then this one coming up this background behind you is tripping me out because it looks like books and then every time you lean back I realize they're not actually bucks. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry, I'll try and stay. No, no, it's great. It's just, ruin the illusion.

Yeah, it's like you're a magician here, I feel like. Right. I think what's so exciting about this era of wrestling right now is that, sure, you're signed to a contract with AEW and you have an office job with them as well, which we can talk about. But you also have the ability to kind of wrestle where, you know, other places where it makes sense. Yeah, I think that's one of the benefits of Tony Con being the fan of wrestling that he is. I think he sees opportunities for our wrestlers to get experience and to get buzz on their name by wrestling in different places. And I'm fortunate enough to be one of those guys. I've had the opportunity to wrestle for impact in the past and for New Japan Strong. And who knows where else I'll be able to go. You know, I'm still, you know, doing independent

stuff as well. I'm currently the defying from champion. So I mean, I'm fortunate to be able to go and sort of ply my trade where I want in addition to having the stability of working for AEW. So are you still on the road every single week with AEW, you know, despite the fact that we're not seeing you on TV? Yes, yes. Every week I travel, you know, a lot of the stuff has to do with behind-the-scenes work,

whether it's coaching or talent-relations stuff. stuff. But yeah, so I'm on the road every week. And then on the weekends, if I have indie bookings or other bookings, there they go. Man. So with the title Head of Talent Relations, are you the guy who's going out and scouting talent? Like, what exactly does that mean? No, honestly, I'm more, I'm more involved with signing and or bringing guys to events, whether it's dark tapings in Orlando or live events on the road. Honestly, it's really Tony's decision based on, because he pays attention to the scene, not just AEW, not just, you know, other large companies in the U.S., but the independence. And so if there's Buzz about a name and he's interested in that, he'll shoot me a text,

hey, what can we do to get this person here or that person here? And then I'm, it's sort of, it's on me and a couple other different people to sort of put that meeting together. between Tony and the talent in question. And so, so yeah, I'm sort of, it's really, because Tony's, it's Tony's baby. And so Tony has the idea of, hey, I want this guy here, I want this young lady here.

What do we do to get her? And then it's sort of my job to hunt him down and figure out a way to get him to a spot. So if you're an up-and-coming indie wrestler and AEW happens to be coming to your town soon, what's the best way to try to get a spot on dark? honestly the best way is the best way if you're an independent

wrestler right now is do do the work on the independence if you can get buzz around your name right now Tony will find out about you know because I get plenty of emails from guys that are like hey I'd love an opportunity I'm willing to travel

you know just give me that chance and like I wish I got paid per those because I would be a rich man but honestly the trick is like if you can get Tony's attention somehow with work that you do outside of AEW Tony is more likely to give you an opportunity to be seen

and so it's really just a matter of going out there and impressing someone to the point where everybody's like oh my God did you see this like if you can if you can become viral somehow you know Tony will figure out who you you are and then he'll make the effort or he'll reach out and be like, hey, let's see what you can do in an

AW ring now that you've done this wherever you did it, whether it was AAW or PWG or AWF in North Carolina. Like any of the small companies around the U.S., you know, everybody's fighting for an opportunity to be

seen. And the beauty of Twitter and social media now is that it's so much easier to be seen like that. You know, gone or the days of, you know, editing your own VHS best of video like I had to do back in the 90s. A lot of times it's a matter of get a gift or get a 30-second clip of yourself on Twitter. And if enough people see it, enough people rave about it, sooner or later, it can come to Tony's attention, you know?

So when you were coming up, were you seriously editing together VHS? Oh, absolutely. And then mailing them out? Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's what we had to do. I literally put Not what I thought were my best matches But the matches that I thought showed my experience

So like for example The last tape that I sent out It had my match with Rhino from ECW And my match with Chris Candida from WCW And a match with Takamish Chinook from WWF Just to show like hey I worked in these three big companies That you might have heard of if you're a pro wrestling guy You know

And so that was really the point of trying to introduce, or that was the way I wanted to introduce myself to independent promoters around the U.S. Hey, you might, you might have seen me on ECW TV or WCW or WWF, you know, whatever the, whatever the case may be. So you're editing these tapes together and, you know, I'm imagining you're not sending out a hundred of them. How do you decide who gets the tapes then?

I honestly, like a lot of those were things to WWF and WCW and WCW and, uh, uh, Like, luckily, once I started doing stuff on the East Coast for guys like Jim Ketner in the ECWA, that opened a lot of doors for me on the East Coast. And so I had word of mouth sort of working for me at that point. Like, I didn't have to introduce myself to a lot of guys because by that time when I did the Super 8 in 1999, and even a little bit before that when I had the matches with Takamishinoku on Shotgun Saturday night, word of the name

Christopher Daniel sort of became a little bit easier to find on the independent scene in the Northeast which is where

at the time the majority of independent wrestling was based so I was very fortunate that I had those opportunities

the matches with Ataka and then working for Jim Kettner like those sort of opened the doors

for me around the United States independent scene and for you was it like I'm going to be a pro wrestler or nothing? Not originally.

Like when I graduated college in in 1991 with the idea that I was going to be an actor. I graduated the theater degree. And the lady who is now my wife, we met doing Summerstock Theater in 1991. And she lived in the Chicago area. And so after I graduated, met her, we did that summer stock theater. then we moved to Chicago and you know I was struggling to get in the theater scene

but the trick with the theater scene was they wanted you to work for free and they wanted like a 60 hour week out of you which was impossible for me trying to you know earn rent so I had to have a job and you know I did a couple of like

small acting gigs that paid a little bit of money but nothing that was going to like you know let me retire So in between all the auditions and gigs that I was trying to get, I made a joke to my wife like, oh, you know what, if this acting thing doesn't work, it can always be a professional wrestler. Ha, ha, ha.

And she found out about Windy City Wrestling in Chicago, made an appointment for me to meet the promoter, Sam DeSero. And after that meeting, she said I walked out of there with like a glazed look like I was hypnotized. And so in January of 1993, I took out a loan. to go to the school. And by April of 93, I was wrestling matches. That's unbelievable. And then a few years later, you sign a developmental deal with WWF.

No, not specifically. That was the rumor. But what actually happened was I had met Jim Cornett along the way, and he offered me an opportunity to work in the Funking dojo with Dory Funk Jr., which is really the precursor to the PC. Like they had camps that they would do week long camps at Titan Towers with Dr. Tom and Jim Cornett and Dory Funk. And so he offered me an opportunity to go to that. And I did that for a week.

This was the same year as the 50th anniversary of the NWA. The NWA's 50th anniversary show was the same week because everybody that was involved with the dojo that week worked on that show. And so I did that week. I did a couple of independents. That was where I met Jim Ketner for the first time. But that was never a developmental contract as much as, like, I don't even know if it was meant to be a tryout. It was just a chance to work with Dory and to work with guys like Dr. Tom. And then in the camp itself was Kerr Angle and Dr. Death Steve Williams and Tiger Ali Singh,

Devin Storm, Steve Carrino, Test, Glenn Culca. So there was a bunch of guys that were trying to either get a job or go from the developmental contracts they had to being on television. So once that happened, once that ended, I think everybody assumed like, oh, he's doing developmental stuff for WWE. And the truth was, I was just back to doing independents. And every once in a while I would do, you know, when WWF came to town, I would do extra work off and on.

So I did that up until like 2002 when RohH and TNA became a thing. And then I sort of stopped doing the WWF tryout stuff. But with you being on WWF's radar, there was never like an opportunity or there was never interest in them signing you full time? If there was, they never expressed it to me. Just so blown away by that. You're so insanely talented. Oh, well, thank you very much.

But honestly, I feel like at the time, they weren't buying what I was selling. And I get that. I mean, you look at the way the light, heavyweight division was, like, emphasized or how little it was emphasized at the time. You know, it's all about timing. I think, like, when I was available and ready to go, there wasn't really a space for guys like me. You know, they were struggling with just to have Taka and, like, Aguila and some of the other guys that were smaller stature like those guys would every once in want to want to be on

television so they weren't like adding to that but then you know in 2010 all of a sudden they're like oh hey let's let's let's get smaller guys and and and give those guys opportunities but by that time i was sort of firmly entrenched with either tna or ring of honor and so there wasn't really a moment where i was like free and clear hey let's let's talk wb yeah i mean and when it comes to tna it's like I feel like you're on the TNA and Mount Rushmore. Oh, well, thanks. Yeah, I mean, I was very fortunate to get in early on. And, you know, I was working with the right people too,

like being in there with guys like Joe and America's Most Wanted, and AJ, obviously, you know, I had great opponents. And when you get in matches with great opponents and turn out good matches, that's what people end up remembering luckily. So, I mean, like, go through my TNA career and you can certainly point to a lot of, like, high points with the matches, whether it was the AMW stuff with Triple X or me and AJ or me and Joe or me and Kurt Angle. You know, I was very fortunate to work a bunch of great guys at that time. Yeah, I said this to you the last time I saw you at the Heels premiere, but like it blows my mind that there's only been one five-star match in the history of TNA slash impact wrestling. You were in it.

I mean, for everybody listening and watching, it's you versus Joe versus AJ, the three-way match, which is an incredible, incredible match. Thank you. How is there only one five-star match? I think a lot of it has to do with, and I think people don't recognize how important crowd response is to the atmosphere of a match. You know, I think I might have even mentioned this to you the last time we had this conversation. I was in New Jersey for final battle when I saw low-key Russell Kenta. And watching the match itself,

it was such an amazing match. And I thought to myself, this is a perfect match. This has got to be five stars. And I remember seeing it get like four and a half. And I realized like it wasn't, if this was in front of, if they had done that match in the impact zone,

it would have been six stars. But because it was, the New Jersey Replex, I believe it was. It was such a spread out area, and the building wasn't really good acoustically. So it didn't sound like it was like people were going crazy, even though I know they were. So, I mean, I feel like the impact zone and that particular match,

it was the perfect spot for what ended up being the perfect match at the time. And I feel like that atmosphere added to the enjoyment of the match. I mean, if you watch it back on YouTube, you can hear people going nuts. Like, you know, like it sounds like it's 10,000 people. And it was, you know, a thousand tops. I don't even know what the impact zone held. But at that point, they were making the noise of 10 times the amount of people. And I think that added to the atmosphere and the whole package of what that match was.

Yeah, I mean, 20 years, one five-star match. Do you know how many five-star matches AEW's had already? Oh, well, the bucks have been in most of them. So every box match, basically. Yeah, more than my fingers can count. Yeah, 13. Yeah, so that makes sense. That makes sense.

Yeah, 13 in three years. And speaking of that, you know, we're three years into AEW now. In your humble opinion, how do you think it's going versus how it was originally started in 2019? I feel like it's going well in the sense that we've grown and we've established an identity. You know, for the first year, I feel like we were a well-capped secret that all of a sudden was getting spread around. And then it was like, oh, a lot more people know about this than I thought. You know, so that first year, we're filling arenas, you know, right before the pandemic hit, like we were having sold out shows. and, you know, big arenas and big shows, you know, the pay-per-view directly before the lockdown

hit that revolution, the night that Moxley won the belt, like, it was a sold-out crowd in Chicago, you know, and you're like, things are going great. Yeah. And now that we're on the other side of the pandemic and, you know, going back to the arenas and I still, you know, we're still selling well. but also we've added so many different people that the landscape like I said has changed in AEW and I feel like we're there's such a wide variety of guys now

that at any moment we can throw anybody out there and give you like just an amazing wrestling match that yeah it's it's amazing to think like three years ago if you had said oh Brian Danielson's going to be there or oh, CM Punk's going to come back. Like, we had no idea. We had no idea that this would be a thing. And then, so I mean, here we are, man, at this point now.

We've made such noise that CM Punk turned around and said, oh, hey, maybe this is a place to come back to. Or Brian Danielson said, you know, at WWB, I'm good. I'm going to go over here and ply my trade the way I want to. So, I mean, we had no idea that that was going to be the case three years ago, but here we are. I mean, I keep saying that it's such an exciting time to be a wrestling fan. And I would have to think that also means that it's a really exciting time to be a pro wrestler as well. Yeah, I mean, there's plenty of opportunity right now to be seen and make a name. And it's just a matter of getting that opportunity.

And so many guys have come through AEW now and sort of been introduced to the the national scene because of AEW. And I mean, you know, if you had told me that in 1998 when I was doing this, like, hey, 20 years from now, you're going to have a show on TNT, I'd have been like, you know, my mind blown, mind blown. Yeah. Do you think about, like, I started off the interview saying you're ageless. And it's unbelievable.

Like, first of all, tell us your secret. What is the secret to looking this good at your age? that's a good question man i wish i knew the true answer i'd bottle it and sell it but honestly um i go bald early i guess you know if you go bald early you'll never see gray um so yeah maybe that's the case maybe just go hairless from the neck up and no one'll know you've got gray coming in maybe how much longer do you want to keep wrestling because i feel like you could keep going forever um i i sometimes feel the same way like i i feel like i feel like i feel excited to try and be ready to wrestle.

You know, and it all depends on the situation. You know, like I'm readying myself for these independent shows and I'm also readying myself to get the call from Tony and to be like, okay, here's what we want to do when you come back. You know, so I'm in a difficult position at this point because I'm sort of unsure what the future holds for me. So a lot of it is just me being prepared.

and trying to get as good as I can get at this age and still and still try to be relevant. You know, it's a tough, it's a tough lane to stay in right now for me. I feel like, you know, you look at the AEW roster and it's like Chris Jericho, Billy Gunn, Sting, you, like, you guys are still putting in the work and you guys look awesome in the ring. Well, thanks, man. Thanks. I hopefully I get a chance to come back and do the same like like billy and sting and and

Chris and Matt Hardy who is still you know amazingly is still going at a great pace you know so I mean it's just a matter of getting that opportunity again and and knows when that'll be so you know if and when you come back it's as a singles wrestler I'm guessing yeah I mean that's the plan right now you know the end of SCU was uh bittersweet for sure I mean Frankie and I were a team for over a decade. And, you know, but I feel like, like he, he's in a spot right now where he's doing some of his best work. And all he needs is that opportunity to be on television again and remind everybody that Frankie Kassarian is one of the best around. And, you know, I, I never want to hold him back either. So I mean, I'm glad that he's gotten this opportunity while I've been

gone to sort of sew his single oats again because he's had some great matches and it's a crime that he hasn't had more but I think that's part of having such a wide variety of a wide roster right now

there's just so many guys that you know someone like Frank Gezerian can sort of not be around for a while and everybody's like oh Frankusarian's still here you know what I mean so yeah I when you're with someone for 10 years and you know you're in this great very well-known very successful tag team

can you even be ready for you guys to end can you even be ready for it to be you know broken up not not really like we weren't we weren't looking forward to it but it was it was a it was a it was a calculated risk to sort of make that offer and um you know at the time at the time there was a wide variety of tag teams in the company. And, you know, I felt like there was an opportunity for us to maybe do singles as well if the match went the way it ended up happening. And so, you know, I wouldn't mind. I would love an opportunity to tag with Frank again if that was the case.

But at the same time, if singles is the way we must go, I mean, we're both very accomplished singles wrestlers. And we were before SCU. And, you know, I think Frankie has proven that he can still go. And I'm looking for that opportunity to prove the same. So. Yeah, I feel like your eye, like, tripped people out. Because after that match, they're like, oh, he must be out with an injury.

Not really. I mean, you know, I've wrestled with this for a little bit now. And I still get a lot of the, oh, my God, what happened? Yeah, when you said next to someone on a plane, they just must be terrified that you're like some sort of a, Cyclops or something. I usually wear dark glasses so I can avoid the scary, the scary yelps of surprise from the stewardesses and pilots that I walk past.

So I actually, there's a guy that gave me a contact lens that I can put in that covers it. It's completely white. So like, I'll wear that to the airport. But I can't wrestle in it because it's too big. And it's like, it's a little uncomfortable. So, I mean, like, it's okay to wear it. like if you're sitting on a plane but if you're running around and taking bumps it would probably blind me so so yeah i'm stuck i'm stuck with the red eye in the ring but outside the ring if you see

me uh i might have that contact then so yeah you posted this on instagram it's like it's a huge contact that covers like the outside like the white right of your eye yeah yeah it was like honestly like i got it i got a direct message from this guy who was like hey man that looks really bad you you know i do this and he showed me like some of his wears. I was like, give me one. Let me see what it feels like. And, you know, it looks great, but it is a little sort of uncomfortable to wear. But I mean, like I said, it, it saves me a lot of the, you know, that sort of, that sort of reaction from young children and people I'm buying coffee from in Starbucks. So people ever mistake you for Frank Trigg?

No. No, no. UFC fighter. I know, no, no, I know Frank Trigg. Yeah, we, like he came, he wrestled in TNA first. That's right. He was in a guy. Very rarely. Very rarely. Who do people, because, you know, you sit next to someone on a plane, they go, that guy, I know him from somewhere.

He's famous. Where is he from? Who do they think you are? Twitter seems to think I'm some guy named Johnny Sins. I think he's, I want, I don't know who it is. I think, I think he's a porn star, which makes me worried that wrestling fans watch way too much pornography. I'm sure that that's the case.

Yeah. Probably. Yeah. So yeah, that's that's the one I see on Twitter all the time. Like, oh, I thought you were Johnny Sins. And I'm like, oh, I'm not sure who that is. And once I sort of looked him up, I was like, oh, that's why I didn't come across this work. Yeah, I think you got to be careful when you look up Google images of Johnny Sins. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I luckily, I didn't go to images first. I just was like, oh, Wikipedia. There we go. Yeah, there's a, there's a, I don't know if you know who Simon Miller is, but he also gets mistaken. No, yes. I get that less frequently, but I do know Simon. Simon gets Johnny Sins all the time. All the time. That sounds right. White guy was shaved head, I guess. That's it. Right, right, right. You know, the last time we did an in-person interview, it was in Orlando. It was Ring of Honor. You were a Ring of Honor champion at that time.

I remember being so happy for you that you were Ring of Honor champion. and I was that happy because I've been a fan of yours for decades. What did it mean for you to finally win a world championship like that? I felt like it was a, you don't ever think you're going to be able to tell a story that spans 15 years. And, you know, just the circumstances, like we had no idea when Ring of Honor started that 15 years later, I would be around and, a contender for the world championship, but just the way circumstances went and the way previous bookers decided to use me,

it just, it just sort of fell into place. And honestly, like, the discussions about me being world champion didn't come around until after a ladder war. Like, when ladder war happened and the reaction to the match between me and Frankie and the Young Bucks and the guns,

just the reaction to that match, I felt like a lot of people sort of, it was the first time that some people went, wait a minute, this might be the time for Christopher Daniels to be a world champion. And so, yeah, once that match happened, maybe a couple weeks later, someone backstage mentioned it to me.

They were like, hey, this might be the time for you, because after this, and it sort of turned to me baby face, just like we were trying to be evil villainous heels at that point. but just the effort in that match and the punishment that Frankie and I both took, like there was a sort of a groundswell of like, oh, these guys actually are good and they can wrestle and, you know, they're not, they're not half bad. So, I mean, that's sort of where that all began.

And a couple months later, I had the opportunity to go through that tournament, the decade of excellence tournament that got me the title shot. And then two months later, there I was. I just feel like it's a travesty that you didn't win the, TNA World Championship. And I don't think it's a matter of like, should you have won it? Because I think you should have. But do you think there was a specific program or match that should have led to you winning it?

Not necessarily. Like there was really only one point that I thought it made better sense than what they decided to do. But not really. I thought it would have worked better. There was a moment in time where Jeff Hardy wasn't able to, able to go to the UK. And I thought to myself, well, I had a match with him before we went to the UK and then we weren't going to have a world champion in the United Kingdom. And I thought, well, what if instead they put the belt on me and then I went to the UK and then I could lose the championship

in the UK and make a big moment for the gentleman that ended up becoming world champion at that time. You know, it would have been a great moment. But at the same time, I feel like they were building for Jeff to lose the belt to that particular person at that time. And so, like, it was just a different idea. And not to say my idea was better than that, but I could have seen it work. But I didn't, you know, this was at that point, it was, you know, it was already sort of written. They were going in that direction and they didn't, they didn't want to change. And that's fine, you know.

Yeah, but it just feels like, like, for everything you did in TNA, it's just wild to me that you don't have that as part of Well, and honestly, too, like, I never thought, I don't think there was ever a moment in T&A like there was, like, the part, the thing I mentioned about how Latter War went and how the groundswell of sort of support happened for me in Ring of Honor. There was never really a moment in T&A where that happened. Like, there were times where I come back and I would have good matches, you know, and they would put me in the ring with someone like A.J. who had the belt at the time, a lot of the time. but there was never that moment where I was like oh you know what the crowd the crowd reaction to CD getting the belt at this guy from this person I don't think there was ever a moment where the the powers that be thought oh this is the time where Chris Daniels should win the belt and you know that's how it is I feel like every every promotion has their idea of the best thing the best path for their championship to travel and it just happened to be away from me or around me the entire time for TNA. Yeah. Is there a match in TNA that you're most proud of?

Honestly, obviously the Joe and AJ one comes to mind because that's the one that everyone remembers. I also was supremely thrilled with the cage match with being Elix against America's Most Wanted, the second pay-per-view that we had. I was also very thrilled with the slammerversary tag match that Frankie and I had with Kurt and AJ. That's probably my favorite bad influence tag title match that we had. Just because the atmosphere in Dallas, Arlington, and wrestling Kurt Angle and AJ, you know, you couldn't ask for better opponents and better baby faces to go in there and try to be the villain of SEALs against. they really were, it was like an underhand pitch in softball.

If you couldn't hit that, you had no business being there. And we were so fortunate to be put in that position against two of the best baby faces ever and bad guy heels to go and lose the belts to them. It was just, you know, you get tables. When your table is set so well, you can't help but have a great meal. Yeah. You were making such a name for yourself in the 2000s with the X Division, and everything that was going on on impact.

Did WWE ever come knocking back on your door? No, no, and honestly, the only time that they could have, I was fired from TNA at the beginning of 2010. And like I made a phone call, but no one ever really got back to me. And like directly after that, Jim Cornett and Ring of Honor, you know, reached out. And, you know, the good thing about Ring of Honor

had always sort of treated me like family. And so like when that call came, it wasn't, it wasn't hard to say yes to go back in 2010. And I had, I had a great singles run in 2010 in Ring of Honor. I had the opportunity to be TV champion. I had some of my best matches with Eddie Edwards then.

I had a great match with El Generico. I had great, I had great opportunities against great wrestlers, Kevin Steen, you know, so like, just name a few. That year in Ring of Honor was a lot of fun.

And it culminated with me going back to TNA, honestly, because Ring of Honor got bought by Sinclair. And at that point, I started doing both. Like, there was a moment where I offered to be able to do both because I had returned to TNA. And I said, well, let me be evil fallen angel in Ring of Honor. and I'll be, you know, young, up and coming baby-faced Christopher Daniels in TNA. But at that time, Jim Cornynep, and rightfully so, he was like, well, I can't trust, I can't trust T&A to book you with the same strength that we would. You know, and then, you know, and my argument was always like, hey, anybody that's watching both TNA and Ringar Honor, they know the score. They know what's going on.

So I think they would have been very forgiving if, like, his example was, what happens if they book you to lose to Rob Terry in 60 seconds? And my response was they'll probably, like, go boo TNA, not boo Chris Daniels, not boo, that guy sucks. They'd be like, oh, well, TNA is just misusing Chris Daniels again. But, you know, and that was an argument that I, that was the argument that I made and understandably lost. Yeah. So unfortunately.

But I thought there was a good moment where there was, that was sort of like the forbidden door before the forbid door, where the opportunity to be in both. Like there was a, there was a month where I main evented a pay-per-view for both companies. Was that when you were suicide? No, no, no. I main-evented the,

I had a world title match against Eddie Edwards in April of 2010. And then that same year, we did lockdown with myself, beer money and Frankie against Bullie Ray, Abyss, Rick Flair, and who was the fourth guy? Matt Hardy. So like it was the,

not the, they weren't immortal, but it was that, that crew versus fortune. And I was, so yeah, that same month, I made invented a pay-per-view

for Ring of Honor and TNA. Yeah, you're right. That's pre-forbidden door. Pre-forbidden door. what are the odds that suicide or curry man might make an appearance in aew definitely not suicide definitely not suicide curry man um maybe i mean it's not out of the realm possibility uh that would have to be a tony con paul though i mean he may not even be aware that

currie man still is alive and well or alive and somewhat well that could be a great that could be a great bTE cameo i'll i'll talk to the young buck and see what I can put together. Let's put that out of the world. Let's make that happen. I think that'd be fascinating. What's next for you as we look ahead here? Well, honestly, next week, New Japan Strong, me and Gabriel Kidd for the very first time.

I feel like what's coming up for me is a lot of younger guys trying to make a name at my expense, which is okay. I completely understand that. Like next week, or this coming week, I wrestle Nick Wayne for the Defy Championship in Defy. Nick Wayne's probably 20 years old, 21 May. So literally I have wrestling boots that are older than him. And then on February 17th in Los Angeles, I wrestle Gabriel Kid, another young up-and-coming, like, who just graduated the Dojo system out of L.A. Dojo.

And so, like, I feel like my life at this point, I'm going to be wrestling guys that are anywhere from 10 to 20 years younger than me that are looking to get better by beating someone of my stature. And so, like, that's, and understanding going in there that 99% of the time, they're going to be faster than me or stronger than me or, you know, better technical wrestlers than me. but the one thing that I'm always going to have in my favor is experience.

And the good thing about using my experience is like knowing what I can do that they can't do, you know, whether it's, you know, someone like Nick Wayne who's very, who's a little bit smaller than me, so I know I'm stronger than him. So that's going to be my game plan. Gabriel Kidd, he hits hard.

And so like I'm going to have to try and out wrestle this guy who strikes like a madman. And so, like, even Rocky Romero told me aside, he's like, hey, man, Gabriel kid's going to hit you really hard. And I went, okay, here we go, you know. I mean, thank you for the warning. But, I mean, like the last time when I wrestled Jay, I know Gabriel wrestled Eddie Kingston. And I saw after the show, Eddie Kingston, not only did he put Gabriel over, but he pulled Gabriel into the room with him, into the interview room. and told him how good he was to his face.

And I respect Eddie Kingston an immense, a great deal. And so if Eddie Kingston will pull you directly in front of him and call you a good wrestler, that says a lot to me. So I know on February 17th, I'm in for a fight. But Gabriel needs to understand that I've been doing this for a very long time. And I've lost as many as I've won. but I know what it takes to win and I know what it takes to beat younger,

faster, stronger guys because I've been doing it for a good while. Yeah. So, I mean, I look forward to this. Like, part of the excitement for me is going into a wrestling ring with someone who's younger, stronger, faster, whatever, and being able to keep up with them.

Like, that to me makes me feel great. Like, I'll give you a perfect example. Last month, I had a match against Malachi Black for the first time. And I'm a huge fan of Malachi Black. I watched him when he was NXT Champion. I saw some of the matches. And I was so impressed with how fast and how good he was. And knowing, like, I only got like a week's notice before I realized I was wrestling him.

And so I had a week to think about, oh, crap, I got to wrestle Malachi Black. And this guy's so good and so fast. And at the end of the night, I lost, but I was very happy with the fact that I hung in there with this guy. He was one of the top wrestlers in the world right now. And me, 16 years older than him, injuries, a plenty. I went in there, I gave him a good 20 minutes. You know what I mean? And that made me happy.

Like, I would love to have beaten him. But the fact of the matter is, like, just getting in there and having, a good showing against someone that good. That made me feel like, okay, I got, I still got something. I still got something here. And so Gabriel Kids are going to find out what I still have on February 17. When you work with these younger guys and they get to, you know, sit under your knowledge tree here and learn from you, what is it that they want to specifically, you know, take from you?

What do they specifically want to learn from you? Man, it's such a hard, that's such a hard question to answer. because there's so many different answers that could fit the bill. You know, sometimes it's just as simple as what am I missing? But I mean, like, you can't answer that because a lot of times it's that intangible. Sometimes it's just the answer, the only thing you're missing is opportunity. You know what I mean? Like some of these guys are so good.

And it's just a matter of the right promoter thinking of the right idea or the right match that gets you seen by the right audience, and then all of a sudden, it could turn on like that. You know what I mean? I feel like, for example, Dante Martin is a phenomenal young athlete, and I've watched him from the beginning, not the beginning of his career,

but from the beginning of his tenure in AEW, and I feel like someone saw him doing something on the independence, and they were like, we've got to get this guy here. And so he had matches, he had matches against the Young Bucks, Um, you know, once his brother got injured, he had matches against a, a good amount of people. We're now all of a sudden, Dante Martin, the name Dante Martin is like, oh, I know who you're talking about.

It's that guy. It's this, this high flying, this amazingly athletic jump, jump master. You know what I mean? So, like, something clicked for him. Like, someone saw something there and put him in the position. Like, I want to say the Young Bucks, the first match he had on television was the Young Bucks. And so like that that showcase all of a sudden just started a fire that has been burning slowly but surely for Dante. And sometimes that's what guys are missing. But I mean, you know, a lot of times the question they ask is what would what should I do different? Like will wrestle them at and they'll come to me and like what would you do differently? And honestly, like I can just give them what works for me and my experience.

So a lot of times I'll be like, if it was me, I would do this. this this this or whatever um and and and i always saw guys too like i don't know everything i wish i did but i can only tell you what has worked for me what has worked in my experience and why something that you did didn't work or could have worked better you know so a lot that's a lot of it really you know uh i wrestle a guy come back what what what do you think sir what what what's what could i've done what what what would different you know and it's it's hard sometimes because i'm not really paying attention in the middle of the match i'm just trying to you know wrestle and win and be as good as i can be and then it's it's a lot of it is uh trying to remember that feeling and be like okay what

how did i feel would this happen and and what would i change and how could i how could i've made that moment something more so that that's really it man and i mean so many times i get guys that are coming up to be like hey do you mind watching my match and i'm like i would love to but i have to get ready for my own match young man and thank you for wanting me to be yeah uh to be you know to pay attention i i i'm very flattered when someone asked me for my opinion just because like i said i don't know everything i i i know i know what i know and i don't know and i and that i feel like everybody's sort of if if people if people would just sort of embrace that fact it'd be a lot better, you know, I feel. So I'm very aware of like, I can help you to a certain extent. I can give

you my experience and hopefully you can take that and mold it to your, to your benefit. So I mean, that, that sort of is, it's really all I can tell guys. It's like I can tell you what I can tell you. I can tell you what I know. And then in the same way, like my advice doesn't always work for guys. Like I can tell you what I think. But I mean, someone may tell you directly opposite or something, you know, somewhat similar or somewhat different. It just depends. Like we're all, all of our experiences are different. So, I mean, it's just part of the, part of the, part of this crazy skill of professional

wrestling. It's like handed down like gypsies. We all, we all pass around treasures around the campfire. Yeah. I think one of the greatest things about you is win or lose in your entire career, you've always been so good at making the other guy look great. Oh, thanks, man.

Thanks. Well, I mean, that was sort of what I was taught was, you know, if you make that guy look good and he makes you look good, you both look good. And so, like, that's, it's sometimes hard to, it's sometimes hard to relax the grip on your own ego. But I always sort of took it like,

the thing that makes my ego sort of stronger is how well the match is perceived. So if I go out there as a selfish guy and try to just get what makes me look good, good, and people go, that match was because we got two guys doing this, you know, then nobody wins. Nobody wins in that situation. So, like, that was what I was taught.

I think a lot of the guys that I consider my peers and certainly the guys that I've had the best matches with are the ones that have that same opinion. Like, if they make me look good and I make them look good, We all win. And that, to me, has always been, like, the game plan. Like, how do we make this match great? What can we do to make this match stand out?

What can we do to make it different from the last match we had? What can we do to make a difference from the match that goes right before us? The match that comes directly after us. What can we do? And that's part of the art, too, is just throwing in all these different ingredients and seeing what do we take and what do we take out, what do we put back in? What do we put more of, you know? that's part of the game.

By the way, how's it been being back at Universal Studios, back in the Impact Zone with AEW? It's sort of weird in the sense like you, like I've been there for so many, I've had so many matches there and for so many different places. Like I wrestled there, I just talked about because we were there this Saturday.

And I was telling someone, not only did I do T&A there for such a long time, But when the XWF came around in late 99, early 2000, I still had hair. I don't remember exactly what it was. But I mean, I remember doing the XWF tapings. Yeah. I remember doing the XWF tapings there in the same building where in the same,

in the same sound stage where 90% of the TNA stuff happened. So I was like, I can't get away from Universal Studio. We're back. We're back. I saw Billy Gunn on the weekend and he's like, it was so crazy being back there because the same people were still working there too. Right, right, right. Yeah, we have a couple of guys.

It's funny, we actually have a lot of the people that work behind the scenes at TNA. We have them in AEW just because a lot of us that did TNA from the days, like the Bucks and myself and Frankie, like when this all started, we were like, hey, you know who you need. You need this person. And you need this person because we remembered them from TNA. And we tried to get as many of the good guys that we remembered to our place. And luckily, we've gotten a lot of them. And they've been outstanding since we've been there.

Well, you're one of the good guys. It's always such a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for always being so kind to me. My pleasure, man. Thank you for having you on the show. I appreciate your flexibility in having this interview today, not face to face, but certainly phone to phone. Yeah, no, I'm glad we're doing this.

And I end every conversation with the same question because I love gratitude. You see right here behind me, be great, be grateful. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? Three things I'm grateful for. I'm very grateful that I've avoided the plague like the plague this whole, these last two years. COVID-free and knocking on wood right now to keep it that way. my wife and my children have been very adamant that I don't bring it home and I and I've been very lucky to obey that edict in my own household and I'm very grateful that during the time of the

pandemic I worked for Tony con because I looked at what happened with Ring of Honor what happened with TNA and and like there but for the grace of God we could have easily done the same thing we could have lost our television show if we were if we were on if we were unable to continue filming if we were stuck if there was no way we could do it we would have lost the television show and I mean that would have changed the the the marketplace of professional wrestling so to speak. So I mean, I'm so fortunate that Tony, you know, dug his heels in and figured out a way to film and figured out a way to keep AEW alive in a time when 90% of everything around us was falling apart. So, I mean, I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful for the friends that I've gotten in professional wrestling. Frankie Kisarian first and foremost because he's been by my side almost 20 years now. AJ Styles and Samoa Joe will be my friends until the very end of my life.

And Matt and Nick Jackson have been my family for the last eight to ten years. And it's because of them that I'm where I'm at. I wouldn't be an AEW if Matt and Nick didn't give me the opportunity if they didn't reach out to me when this was. in the planning stages and say, hey, man, take a chance with us. And honestly, there's no other answer I would have ever given them except yes. You know what I mean? Like at the time of my career, when this came around, I could have easily stayed where I was. I could have easily what could have been a lateral move.

But I mean, looking at what was going on with Matt and Nick and Cody and Kenny at that time, The idea of doing something new with them, it was never a risk in my mind. It was never a risk. So, like, I'm so grateful and fortunate that those guys thought of me and Frankie and Scorpio Sky to join from the get-go. You know, it's been a great three years. It's been a very surprising three years. Like, I didn't know it was going to go like this, but these three years have been great,

and I've been very fortunate. it and, you know, I'm eternally grateful for all of those things. And you're obviously doing a great job. You know, obviously we see the fruits of your labor on TV. We don't actually see the labor being done behind the scenes. But, you know, it's obvious that you're doing great work. Thank you, man. Thank you very much.

And thank you for coming on the show. So good to catch up with you. My pleasure, man. Thank you for having me. And hopefully we can do this face-to-face next time. Done. We'll do it. We'll do it.

Will. My brother. Thanks so much. Take care of C-2V. There we go. Big thank you to Christopher Daniels for joining us. New Japan Strong Rivals. Is it Hollywood on Thursday, February 17th? For tickets and more info, go to NJPW1972.com. And take a screenshot, share this on social media, tag us both so we can see it and so we can share it as well. And speaking of Twitter, I tweeted this.

out earlier in the week, you know, that idea of how crazy it was that TNAs only ever had one five-star rated match by Dave Meltzer. But that's insane. And I'm so glad that you guys agree with me. For comparison, during that same time, since TNA started in 2002, so in the last 20 years, I mentioned in the interview, AEWs had 13 five-star matches, WWE and NXT have had 10. Nine of those have been in NXT, by the way. Ring of Honor has had four. PWG has had five.

New Japan has had 64. So TNA with one, New Japan with 64. I will leave you with this from John Wooden who says, it's the little details that are vital. Little things make big. things happen. Go make some big things happen in your week. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there

was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. ever heard of then to rock bottom dude i was born in nineteen eighty seven uh i can't believe he's doing this hammer alley follow and listen on your favorite platform