Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Christopher Daniels On His Retirement Match, FAKE Eye Injury, AEW, TNA, Higher Power, Tiffany Stratton

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

https://cvvtix.com - Get your tickets for INSIGHT LIVE in NYC with VIP Meet & Greet! Christopher Daniels (@facdaniels) is a retired professional wrestler currently signed to AEW where he is the head of Talent Relations. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at West Coast Creative Studio in Hollywood, CA to discuss his retirement match against "Hangman" Adam Page, the terrifying spot during TNA Ultimate X where he almost died, competing in the Unbreakable 2005 triple threat match against Samoa Joe and AJ Styles, the rumor that he was going to be The Higher Power in WWE, the inspiration for the Best Moonsault Ever and his thoughts on Tiffany Stratton's version, the origin of Curry Man, the true story behind his gruesome eye injury in AEW and more!   Quote I'm thinking about: “I am who I am today because of the choices I made yesterday.” - Eleanor Roosevelt   Please support our sponsors!   PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/?ref=tibcloux  SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup!  TIMELINE: Go to https://timeline.com/insightto get 10% off your order of Mitopure!   VUORI: Get 20% off your first purchase! Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://vuori.com/cvv   ROCKET MONEY: Download the Rocket Money app and enter “Insight With Chris Van Vliet” in the survey   HUEL: Get 15% off plus a FREE Gift for NEW customers with the code INSIGHT at https://huel.comMIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF   ZOCDOC: Instantly book a top-rated doctor today at https://zocdoc.com/insight   BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv   BLUECHEW: Get your first month of BlueChew for free with the code CVV at https://bluechew.com   PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at https://plunge.com   For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.    Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Fleet. Here we go. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CBV, Chris Van Fleet, and in a sea of thousands upon thousands of wrestling podcasts, thank you for hitting play on this one here today. And thank you for making Insight the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. Hit the best moonsault ever on that follow button on Apple or Spotify and wow, we are less than a month away from the next Insight Live. So if you're going to be in

the New York, New Jersey area for SummerSlam, I would love to see you there. It's happening Friday, August 1st, before Smackdown. So there's time to go to Insight Live and also Smackdown. There's still a handful of VIP tickets left or maybe we should be calling these CVVIP tickets. It includes a Q&A and asks CVV before the show and a meet and greet after the show. grab those tickets at CVVTix.com, CVVTX.com. Christopher Daniels is an absolute legend. He's the only wrestler to compete in WCW, ECW, W-W, TNA, Ring of Honor, New Japan, and A-A-W.

Amazing. In January, he officially retired from the ring after an incredible 32-year career. His final match was against Hangman Adam Page. And when you think about Christopher Daniel's career, when you think about TNA, he's one of the names that immediately comes to mind. A three-time X-Division champion, multiple-time tag team champion, ring of honor, world champion. And behind the scenes, he has been and he still is the head of talent relations for AEW. I love this conversation.

I appreciate how much he was, he was just open about everything with this. And he talked about things like Curry Man, which he really hasn't pulled the curtain. back on up until this point. And remember that gnarly eye injury that he suffered in AEW, whereas I was all bloodshot for like a year and a half? Well, there's a heck of a story behind that because apparently it wasn't real. Yeah, it wasn't real. But wait till you hear this story.

Snap a screenshot. Let us know that you listen to this episode and tag us. He's at F.A. Christopher Daniels on Instagram. He's at FAC Daniels on X. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the fallen angel, Christopher Daniels. Man, it is so good to see you. Hello.

Yeah, congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. Yeah, 32 years. 32 years, yeah. I stumbled across this photo the other day of the very first time that I met you. Ah, there we go. Look at that.

That is 2008 in Milton, Ontario. There we go. You worked a show called Blood Sweat and Sweat and Music. Sweatneers. You remember blood, sweat and tears. I did a couple shows for those guys. You'd have to refresh my memory on who I worked that night if you do. I believe you work Samoa Joe.

That sounds about right? Yeah. That sounds right. Because I had a similar photo with him. Okay. You look the exact same. Thanks. Look at that.

Because you can't see from the waist down. I've gotten a little bit wider from the rib cage to the knees. No. But yeah, that's pretty accurate. That's pretty close to what I am now. What's the secret here to just staying so youthful? I have no idea. Whatever it is, I wish I could like package it and sell it.

But yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that I shaved everything. So like you don't see gray and somehow like I haven't turned into like a raisin and gotten all wrinkly. So I'm very fortunate. There's a classic photo of you. I think from like 1994 you're wearing a very bright singlet and you have hair. Yes. And you actually somehow look older there. I'm actually going to pull this up.

That might be right. That might be like my windy city, one of my first promo photos. Yeah, yeah, with that lightweight title. Like you look. So friends of mine called that the saved by the bell singlet because of the pattern. Oh, my gosh, yes. So like I just wanted, I remember when I got that stuff, when I first got my singlets, I was like, oh, I want some color.

I want some color in that stuff. And I found that pattern and thought, oh, those would be great. That'll be cool because I was sort of pattering it against. What the Steiner, what Scott Steiner was wearing at the time was that wacky singlet. Yeah. I thought, oh, that would be a cool little color. And then everyone was like, hey, saved by the bell. And I was like, I wasn't really watching the show.

So I didn't get it until after everybody was selling me. So that's a very 90s looking photo. Very 90s. Very 90s pattern. 1993 or 94. How do you look older there? I told you, shave the hair. And it's wiped 10 years off me somehow.

Shave everything. How did you know it was time to retire? Um, so at the beginning of 2024, uh, I knew my contract as a, as a performer was coming to an end. And I knew, I sort of said to myself at the beginning of the year, I was like, all right, you've been doing this for a while. Uh, your body feels, eh. Uh, and you're not wrestling that often. So let's try and make this a good year and see how we feel at the end of the year. And so I said to myself that, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to try to make this a good, a good year for me. So I started working with Cesar Bononi to try and get in good shape. And I just said, you know, let's see how we feel at the end of this year.

Like, I'm going to wrestle this year like it's my last and see how I feel. And, but one of the things I sort of kept in mind was like, I didn't want to. I only wanted to wrestle if Tony wanted me to wrestle, Tony Conn. I didn't want to go to him and be like, hey, please, can I wrestle? Because I felt like if Tony needed me for the show or if Tony wanted me for the show, then he would think of something for me to do on the show. But I didn't want to be that guy that was like, hey, I'm not doing anything this week. Can I do something this week and have him possibly feel obligated to give me something

and then jam it into a show that's already, you know, we've got a very wide roster. And we've got two hours of time on a Wednesday, two hours of time on a Saturday. And I didn't want to conceivably take time away from something that was important just to scratch my wrestling edge. I wanted to sort of be cognizant of like, hey, this isn't good for the show if he doesn't want it. If you're just getting on to get on, that's not fair. And especially as someone who, you know, I felt like as someone who was sort of like in the office, it felt wrong to try and take time away from. from stuff that Tony really wanted. So I didn't ask Tony.

I never went to Tony. It was like, hey, can I do this? Hey, can I do this? I just wanted him to organically go, hey, I need, I need you to wrestle this person tonight. I need to put this guy over tonight, whatever. If he wanted me, I would do it. So one of the last things we did,

or one of the last times he asked me to wrestle was the tag match with me and Matt against the Young Bucks. and going into that, I knew, you know, the finish should be on me. And after that, I said, wait, what would happen if, or not after that, but like right before that, I said, what would happen if they pinned me and then they fired me? And in my head, I thought the natural progression was, okay, they would fire me. They're misusing their EVP powers. Tony would hire me back and I would wrestle them again, whatever.

but then once it happened I thought oh wait what if what if they made me an EVP to sort of like offset there if I was like the baby face version of what Matt and Nick were doing as EVPs and so we pitched that and I think once I sort of got that position

I think Tony didn't want me to wrestle and be an EVP and in my head the EVPs wrestled all the time so I was like oh I'll wrestle every once in a while but I don't think Tony had that same mentality So it then turned into me only being an EVP. And like from May to almost the end of the year, like he didn't ask me to wrestle again.

The last match I had before the end of the year, I actually volunteered for the one with Jack Perry on collision. Because it was a, it was a Jack Perry versus TBD. And I was like, hey, what if that was me? And he was like, oh, that'd be great. That's, you know, better than an enhancement match, whatever. And I was like, okay, cool. but then like I felt like he didn't really want,

he already didn't really need me to wrestle as often. So right around that period of time, I would be pitching different ideas to different guys, but not to Tony directly. It was like, I remember going to John Morrison once, and I was like, hey,

what if you and I were like a tag team, like an LA tag team? What if we were called like the LA riots? And he was like, oh, and then he started to get more involved with MXM. And I was like, okay, well, that's, you know, that's a good thing for him.

I don't need to be weighing him down. And I went to hang men one time. And this was in the middle of the time where he was getting booed out of the building. Like he's, you know, he was in the midst of the thing with swerve. He was just starting this thing with Jay White. And I was like, hey, man, what if, what if you ended my career? What if you, like, that would be like great heat for a heel to be like, if you crippled me so bad, I couldn't wrestle anymore.

That would be cool. And I didn't think anything of it after that. I just, oh, that would be cool, right? That would be a good way to go out. And then, like, near the end of the year, he was like, hey, I went to Tony and I think we're going to do this thing with you and me. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. So, I mean, if it wasn't for Hangman asking for that, I don't think it would happen.

It might have just, I would, I might have ended my career with that match with Jack and just said, I'm done, you know. Not every wrestler gets a final match. Sure. Well, no, every wrestler gets a final match, but they don't know. people don't, don't, you know, get a chance to play into it as their final match. Or some people get injured and that's their final match without them knowing. Right.

To actually go into it knowing that's your retirement match, not everybody gets that. Yeah. And I also didn't want people to know it was my final match. Like, to me, I, you know, you watch television. You watch, you know, dramas or whatever. They never advertised like, okay, this is the last episode for this guy because he's going to at the end, you know? Yeah.

So I didn't want, Tony had asked me too, he's like, hey, why don't we call this a retirement match? I was like, no, you're missing the point. I don't want people

to know it's a retirement match. I want people to be shocked. I want, and that's, it's more heat, even though it wasn't really heat on page at that time, because by that time,

he was sort of turning baby face again. But to me, I thought it was more meaningful. And it sort of lent itself to the reality of professional wrestling that we don't always know when our last match is. So what I wanted was to have the match and then announced the retirement the week later and say like, hey, man, I got so messed up.

I can't do this anymore. You know? And it's funny how that the original idea went from putting heat on, not heat on him, but, you know, when I pitched it to him in the beginning, I had said, what if at the end I say, hey, I can't wrestle this. I can't wrestle anymore. Are you happy now? And I said to him, we can do this one of two ways.

Either you start to like feel bad or you double down and you say, no, I wish I killed you. You know, and they're dependent on where he was going to go. You could go either of those routes. So, so yeah, I went into it thinking this is a good way to go out. And the surprise of it would have been cool. And then, you know, and then I, you know, the night it happened, I read online like, Like, this may be the last match for Christopher Daniels. And I was like, told everybody, you know.

I was like, oh, well, Sean Ross Sapp told everyone this might be my last match. So I wish he hadn't done that. But, you know, I guess that's sort of the danger of pro wrestling at this point is like everybody wants to know the secrets behind. So we don't let stuff happen organically. Like, people have to know, well, what's this? What's this? What's going? Where are we going?

I was like, so, but I mean, honestly. I was really happy with how it played out and happy that I got to do it with hangman. You know, and honestly, I feel like, I don't feel like it was like the starting point of where he's going now, but I feel like it was a step towards what's happening with him now, which I think is pretty cool. Was your body telling you, it's time to wind this down soon. Yeah, and that was part of the reasoning of the beginning of the year thinking, you know, well, maybe you should think about cooling this off because I was, I was always having, I've always had any problems since like 2000 and maybe one, two thousand, two months.

And then like at the beginning, maybe in the middle of 2023, I was realizing I was seeing at your feet on my left side, like my left shoulder, my left bicep. It was always weak after I got injured in WCW in 2001. So almost 25 years ago. And it's catching up with you now. Yeah, because I mean, I kept wrestling. You know, I had to keep wrestling, obviously. But yeah, it was always weak. It was always weak, but it wasn't visible.

And then earlier, early in the middle or in the middle like 2023, I started realizing, like, oh, that's a lot smaller. And you could start. And I felt it got weaker quicker when I would work out. It got, I could tell I was getting weaker as I was wrestling on this side. it was like, okay. So that was a lot of, that put a lot of thought into my head, like, okay, maybe this should be it. And then the way everything just sort of played out, it sort of like led to that being it. What's the hat you're wearing behind the scenes? So you're

the VP of talent relations? I am the VP of talent relations. And what exactly does that mean? Well, so at the beginning, it was really just sort of coordinating and helping get the talent roster are sort of situated. A lot of my duties from day one to like the, you know, the first six months was helping the international talent get visas. Like I would write up these letters to these lawyers and be like, hey, Kenny Omega is great because he was, you know, WGP champion and blah, blah, blah. And I would write down all of these.

I would basically go to Wikipedia and write down a lot of accolades and try to convince these lawyers like, oh, these are, this is why this is why. this wrestler should be allowed a visa to wrestle in the United States because he's great. And, you know, we had a lot of, we had Kenny, we had Shima from Japan. We had a lot of Japanese talent. We had a couple of Canadian talents, international talents. So I did a lot of that. And as we've, as the company has grown, now we've added more people to the talent relations crew.

So like Sanjay Dutt and QT Marshall and Pat Buck, Tony Chivani. We're all a group of guys like helping coordinate different things. And like now at this point, I do a lot of stuff like Tony allows our guys to do outside booking. So I like coordinate a lot of that, try to get talent approved to do independent bookings when they're not busy with AEW. Try to coordinate outside stuff for a lot of different guys. So that's sort of that hat I'm wearing as VP guy, as VP of talent.

And then I'm also helping produce. So I'm one of the guys like helping to produce matches on television each week. You produced the match that I was part of or the segment that I was a part of on the very first episode of Dynamite. Okay. So I interviewed Kevin Smith and Jason Mews in the audience. Oh, right. And then private party came out. You were the one like overseeing the whole thing.

You're going to stand here and he's going to do this. Right. Yeah. I do that for a lot of the matches now. And it was very cool for me to be like, Christopher Daniels is producing this. thing that I'm part of. I play the tiniest smallest role in this, but it was very cool. I completely forgot about that

until you brought it up. Yeah. So like, and it was funny because we had walked through everything on one side of the arena. And then when we did it live, I just walked out there and I'm like, oh, they're sitting over there. All right. I'm sure we can still figure this thing out. Right. So that was pretty cool,

like having you walk through that whole thing and then seeing the whole thing like play out. It was very cool. Yeah. You, you're a legend. You are a, thanks. It's true. You are an absolute living legend.

And it's amazing when you look back at your entire career, all of the things that you've done. Yeah, I've been real fortunate. I've been in a lot of different spots at some opportune times, for sure. I'm not sure if this is accurate or if the internet is lying to us. But I believe you are the only wrestler to ever compete in WCW, WWE, TNA, ECW, Ring of Honor, New Japan, and AEW. I think so. Wow.

I had put out a tweet not too long ago because I had an opportunity to work for All Japan, and I listed what I thought were like the major companies in professional wrestling over the last, like, 20 years. And I listed like WCW, WWF, ECW, TNA, R-O-H, A-E-W, New Japan, all Japan, Zero One, Mishinoku Pro, all the places that had, all the places that had television in the U.S., all of the Japanese companies that sort of made, made an impact in the U.S. And then the Mexican companies like AAA and CMLL. So I feel like I'm the first guy to wrestle for all of those.

And yeah, that was a pretty neat accolade, a neat little badge of honor to sort of wear, especially as much as I was sort of a spokesperson, I guess, for the independent wrestling scene in the early 2000s, like the late 90s, early 2000s. Yeah, it's pretty cool to be to say, like, I did all of these places. I was definitely the journeyman. What a stat. Thanks.

I feel like the, you really came onto my radar as the fallen angel. Okay. Yeah, I was the fallen angel for pretty much all of it, like from 95 on. But like the word. you did, I guess it would be like late 90s and then into TNA, like that version of the fallen angel. Okay.

So take me back here. What was the idea behind the fallen angel? Okay. So it was sort of like two, there were two parts to it. First of all, when I started in Wendy C. you're wrestling in 93, I was a good guy. And I was just Christopher Daniels. And we were, you know, we're the independence.

So we're all sort of writing our own stories. And Sam DeSarro, the promoter was like, cool with. anything we wanted to do. And so, like, for a year, I was just good guy, you know, gee, golly, baby face, yay, me. And I was like, hey, I want to turn bad. And so I'm a comic book guy. And there was a comic book called Fallen Angels. And I thought, oh, that's a neat, that's a neat name.

And then, like, when I wanted to turn and heal, the mentality was like, I once was good and and now I'm bad, I'm a fallen angel, blah, blah, blah. And then maybe maybe a year later, a year two down the line, I, you know, I was sort of influenced by gold dust and Dustin doing gold dust because I thought one of the things about his character that was so interesting was like no matter who you were in the United States, in the world, no matter who you were in the world, rich, poor, black, white, whatever, whatever, you had a strong sense of your sexuality. And so I thought that was why his character was so.

universal. Like everybody was like immediately had an opinion on this character. And I thought, well, what's another, what's another sort of aspect of your life that no matter who you are, you've got a firm sense of it. And to me, that was religion. And so I thought, you know, if I'm this guy that used to be good and now I'm bad and I'm the fallen angel, what if I dressed like a priest? What if I was a priest? And I called myself God's gift to wrestling. So I came up with the idea of wearing this priestrobe. And, um, and, and, and, you know, call myself God's gift to wrestling and sort of having a religious flavor to some of my promos, you know, and, you know, I would say all this stuff. And that's the gospel according to the fallen angel. You know, I thought all this, that was all cool. And I thought one of the things it did for me, too, was immediately if I came out wearing a priestrope, I sort of immediately, I was different from everybody else on the independence. Like, you know, a lot of guys were just guys. They would just come out and they would wrestle. But I was the guy in the priestrope. You're like, oh, I remember that guy. So I thought that that was something that sort of set me apart from everybody. And especially in the independence where, you know, you didn't really have, there was obviously no television to sort of get

over. I thought like word of mouth hopefully started would, would sort of like grow around this thing that I was doing. And that was sort of where that all came from. What's the meaning behind the tattoo in your chest? So it was a little bit of, I misunderstood what the, onk was early on. Like I thought the onk was a youth, something about youth. And so, myself and Kevin Quinn, my first

tag team partner out of Wendy Cedar Wrestling, and another guy by the name of Brett Sanders, we were these young guys and we were like, the arrogant young guys were like, oh, we're going to be better than these old dudes and wrestling, blah. So we were all talking about like, oh, we're going to be this new young, up-and-coming crew. And we liked this

onk. And so we were like, hey, well, let's get let's get this onk and make it our symbol and let's get tattoos. And Kevin got one on his calf and Brett got one on his arm. And I thought, you know, my arms aren't that big. I don't want to draw attention. My legs are pretty good. I don't want to mess those up. What if I got one right here on the chest?

And so, like, I got my little bat signal. And the funny story is, like, I went into this tattoo parlor. And this guy draws this thing like this big. And I went, uh, that's a little too big. He's like, about now? And I go, no, how about now? And literally, like, five iterations and finally got to this. So I was like, that's doable.

And then, you know, and I had heard like, oh, man, you get it on like bone. And I'm asking for it on like my sternum. It's going to hurt really bad. And I was like, okay, let's. And that was another reason why I didn't want like a foot and a half of ink. Yeah. I thought, oh, God, okay. So, like, we're doing it.

And as he's going down, I just remember, like, it didn't hurt. But it felt like I was, I put my thumb in a socket because my teeth started. to chatter like I had electricity going through me as he's going down the long stem of him. I was like, blah, blah, blah, blah. So is that your only tattoo? The only tattoo. Man. I never really found anything else that I was so committed to that I was like, I'm going to

mark myself for life. So, so yeah, that was the only one. But then it became so much a part of your look and your gimmick. Yeah. Like people associated that symbol with you. Yeah. And so often you get one tattoo and it's kind of like, it's like an addiction. Yeah.

My daughter has a few tattoos. and I think she is going through that where she got this one tattoo and she was like, I like this, I'm going to get another one. And then so, yeah, but I never, like I said, I never found anything that I was like,

I'm going to do this. I'm so into this for whatever reason. Yeah, I just never, it never appealed to me in that way. Being in wrestling over 30 years, do you feel like you have a core tenant, a core belief about pro wrestling? I mean, I'm sure I do.

I don't know if I've ever sat back and articulated it out loud, but I think one of the things that I think about is the mentality of us versus them in terms of pro wrestlers. Like, I feel like we're a tribe. And especially the wrestlers that I've worked with, I feel like it's like we all went to war together. And I look at those guys as my family and my, and like soldiers that you're on the front line with, even though we're battling each other.

Like, to me, that's a bond that's stronger than. just about anything, you know, the people that I've wrestled, especially guys like A.J. and Joe that I've wrestled like countless times, like, they're closer to me than anybody in the world. They're almost sanctumount to family to me. You know, they're almost my brothers. And that to me was always something. And then the mentality of like the fans on the outside, whatever negativity, whatever positivity, in the end, like, they're on the outside. And we're all. on the inside and that's sort of how I've lived like that mentality of pro wrestling like it's us versus them guys so let's all band together let's be on the same side and we protect ourselves from

you know we we enjoy the good and protect ourselves from the bad from the outside and to take it one layer deeper if you and I watch a baseball game chances are we've thrown a baseball we watch a basketball game we've dribble basketball I've shot it in net you're part of a very select group of people when you're a pro wrestler. Not everybody's touched the canvas. Not everybody's ran the ropes, taking a bump. So, like, if you're in there doing it,

you're some of the few humans on earth that actually know that feeling. Right. It's not a recreational thing you do in the yard, you know? No, I mean, and the funny thing is some of us have probably started like that, feeling that itch of, like, taking a bump in the backyard.

And I mean, for all the wrestlers in the world, probably one out of three did it in the backyard at some point for fun. And I'm definitely one of those guys. But doing it for real and doing it for living and risking your life, you know, even as inadvertently as the risk is, like, we don't mean to go in there and like almost die. But it has happened in that in those cases. Yeah, it's a, it's a different experience. It's a different experience from anything else. You were part of one of the scariest things I've ever seen in wrestling.

Okay. Ultimate X match. Okay. that fall with suicide was, I don't know how you survived. I don't know how you weren't seriously injured. Yeah, luck. I was holding on so tight to suicide that he ended up taking the brunt of the fall. And the funny thing is, like, that wasn't the original plan because Frankie and I,

who was doing suicide, we had an idea of what we wanted to do, and I'll tell you the story. So we had both jumped off the top of the trust before. in these Ultimate X matches, we were the only ones. And so I had an idea like, what if we did this? I'll get on this truss and you get on this trust and you jump first. And then I'll jump and I'll land on your back. And then we'll stand on the ropes and I'll hook you for Angels wings. And then you backdrop me.

And that was what we were going to do. What? That was what we were going to do. And I was full on ready to take this backdrop from the top of the truss into the ring. And then we get to Irvine and they've got a ceiling on it. they've got these trusses over the top that cover the X. And we couldn't do that because every time we had done Ultimate X in Orlando, they had bolted the trusses to the floor.

But we didn't own Irvine. This was like UC Irvine. So we had to have the trust on top to sort of bolt. We couldn't bolt it to the floor. We couldn't use it to secure the trusses. So we had to have the X over top. So then we came up with this idea of like, Well, I guess we'll climb down and I'll try and do this complete shot to you.

And it turned like my legs got hooked and instead of just going flat on a flat back, which still would have been an insane bump. It ended up being like almost upside down and landing like this. And Joe really yelled at me that day. Like I, the worst, the actual danger was coming to the back and having Samoa Joe grab you by the neck and go, don't you ever do that again? Like really, really frightening. I was like, oh my gosh.

I was fine. Like, I literally landed and the referee comes over to my face. He goes, oh, my God, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm good. What's up? What? I'm good. Yeah, but I could hear the, like, the air escaped the room.

In the end, like, I wish we hadn't done that because it literally just, the match just stopped right there. Like, poor Red is still fighting and trying to get the X Division belt. And the world thinks, oh, my God, we just witnessed a death. Like, they're not even thinking about the match anymore at that point. So I feel bad that that it ended up being what it was. but I mean like that that's the thing everybody remembers is my near death experience. Yeah. Well, that's not really what we wanted to get out of that.

The video on YouTube is titled Christopher Gaines almost dies. I tell people all the time. Chris Daniels almost dies is on YouTube. So what was the spot supposed to look like? Just like a flag like in the end, it was just going to be like a face bump. Like I do this thing like how I set up the Koji clutch is literally, I grab the guy by the back of the neck and I take a back bump. So both of you guys would have fallen. flat. Like it would be my flat back and his flat stomach. But because, you know, as we're going,

my leg stayed. The rest of his body came off. And so instead of like coming down flat, I just started to do this. And it looked like at the last second, Frankie rotates or something to make sure you fall okay. Yeah. I mean, yeah, and I think part of it too is because he was so heavy, it just turned me this way instead of going straight back. But yeah, yeah. I could have gone real bad. That's a end. There's no practice. There was no like, hey, let's try this. Nope. We're going to do it when the time came.

That was, we did. Is that the scariest moment you've ever been part of in the ring? There can't be one worse. Well, I will tell you this. So the first time I ever did this dive off the truss was me and AJ versus L-A-X. And I told AJ about this finish that I wanted to do. And I thought, okay, well, I got to practice this. I don't know if I can make this jump.

So I measured out from what I thought, the edge of the truss was, um, to the, to the middle of the ring. And I had this number in my head. And then I measured from the middle of the ring to like the bottom rope. And I stood in the middle of the ring. And this is before the, this is before the show. This is like weeks before the show. And I just dove. And I kept diving. And I would just barely get my hands to the rope. And each time I would just barely get my hands to that bottom rope thinking that was the length that I had to jump. So I kept telling AJ, as we're going over this thing, I was like, all right, we're going to do this, we're going to do this, we're going to do this, and then when I get up here,

it'll be the scariest thing I ever do. And that's how I kept calling the match in the back. And when I got up there, not the last second, but as I was thinking of it, I was like, all right, if I sort of put my feet on the top truss and I sort of lean forward and now my feet are on this side, when I push off, hopefully I'll have enough juice to get to the X. And in my head, I think I'm just going to barely grab the top rope and make it like that. And instead it just hits me full on in the. chest. I'm like, oh, I'm here. Okay, good. That was fun. So, yeah, so like that was more,

that was scarier to me just because I was building it up in my head like, all right, I might just take a flat back. I might just jump and miss and just plunge into the, into the ground at first. So much to do about nothing in the end, but. At what point did you realize that TNA was going to become a real thing? And if we take us back to the landscape of pro wrestling at that point in time, WCW's been bought out. W-WE is the only game in town. If you don't work there, you're on the Indies. Right.

So Jeff Jarrett starts this weekly pay-per-view 999 every Wednesday. I remember paying for those. At what point do you realize, well, this is a viable option? Well, at the time, the thing that really appealed to all of us that we're doing at the time was that it was a Wednesday booking. And, like, we were all living on the Indies and working on the Indies. And so a Wednesday booking, well, I'm not doing anything on a Wednesday booking. Well, I'm not doing anything on a Wednesday. Absolutely will do this.

Because you were busy on weekends. Yeah. And so I got involved with that through Bob Ryder and Jeremy Barash, who I knew from WCW when I had my contract there. They helped me get my second contract that ended up getting bought out by WWF when WCW closed. And so when this all started, they had me in mind. I had actually done the WWA pay-per-view from Las Vegas. the one that had like Jared and Ryan Christopher, like that

WWA All-Stars event. Actually, the day after the first Ring of Honor show, we were in Vegas for this pay-per-view, this WWA pay-per-view. And I think, I don't know if that was sort of the beginnings of, well, it couldn't have been the beginnings,

but I think like at that point, Jeff had already started sort of making this idea of like what TNA was going to be. And he just hadn't, it didn't start until like June, July of that year. Because that was February. That match was February.

That show was February. So like somewhere between February and June July. The first teenage show was I think June 19th, 2002. Something like that. Yeah. And so I was on the second one. Almost 23 years to the day. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. So I was on the second, like they did the first two shows the same night. And then I was on the third, the next show, which was number three. And then from there, I was like off and on up until December. and then from December on I was full time. And then when did it start to feel like this is going to be a thing? Well, so every week we were doing these shows and then somewhere down the way,

they were like, all right, guys, we're going to, in addition to doing the Wednesday pay-per-views in Nashville, we're going to start taping down in Orlando, Florida for this show on Fox Sports News or Fox Sports News or Fox Sports. uh fox uh god what's the name of the network it was it was a fox it was a fox station yeah that tina started like impact's first year was on fox sports net or something like that i think it's called and so um that was where impact started was there and so like i feel like we were comfortable for a little while just being every wednesday you know and then our independence and sometimes you know my japan stuff was was sort of helping me stay afloat and then um

Once we started doing Wednesdays and then also in Orlando, I felt like, oh, this is good. And then the Fox Sports Net Show turned into impact on Spike TV. And then by that time, we were like, oh, we're on television. So if you were under contract with WCW when they got bought out, so your contract gets bought out by WWE, why didn't we see you in WWE at that point? Well, it was a developmental deal because I had that match with Mike Modest on Nitro. And we did the angle at the end where Scott Steiner came out and broke our legs. And so the idea was going to be like we would heal.

And at some point we would come back. And that was January of 2001. And then by March of 2001, they had closed. And so basically, WW took all the contracts. And they just went down the list. They're like, all right, we'll keep you, we'll keep you. And like all the guys that developmental, they were like, oh, we don't need you. So that was it.

That was it. What's the story behind the rumor that you were going to be the higher power? I didn't hear this until years later. So is there any truth to it? Maybe. I mean, but it was never anything that they told me. And honestly, it was a terrible idea anyway, you know, because the idea would have been like, you know, Undertaker, Undertaker is like answering to this higher power.

And then I'm on mass and it's me. And it's like, what fuck is this guy? You know what I mean? And it's sort of like what was going on in my first WCW contract as well. Like when I first signed with WCW, like they had an idea where I was going to be vampiros. the way they described it to me was, if Vampiro is Darth Vader, you're the emperor. And I was like, okay.

And so, but also, like, at this point, vampir was feuding with Sting, and I was an unknown indie guy. So whatever the reveal was going to be at that point, was going to be a letdown to me. And so I thought, okay, we'll do this. And I remember going to WCW one day, cutting this promo backstage with the Vampiro,

or I've got this hood. And they're, like, talking to me, like, all right, talk about harvesting souls and things like that. I'm like, okay. So I cut this promo. We get it live. And then I'm back in the locker room. And it comes on live Nitro and we watch it.

And as soon as it's done, Jeff Jared, who happens to be there? And I haven't really even met Jeff at this point. Jeff Gerr goes, who the fuck was that? And I was like, that's me, sir. You know, and then that flopped so quickly that they didn't go forward with that idea. And then I was just under contract with WCW. I was traveling with them for like four months. months and then they let me go. And that was the first contract that I had with them that ended.

Like JJ Dillon called me. He's like, hey, you know, we're not, you're not wrestling a whole lot for us. And I was like, well, you're not booking. So that's why it's not like I'm wasting your money on purpose, sir, but they let me go. So then how did you find out years later that your name was attached to the higher power? It came out on the internet. Like everyone was like, I think maybe Bruce Pritchard mentioned it. But, but yeah, like everyone was like, oh, Christopher Dan. it was almost the higher power. And I was like, was he, though? I don't think that's true.

I think maybe it was discussed because I had been going to do WWD dark matches as an extra. And Jim Cornett was always sort of high on trying to get me there early on when, you know, the light heavyweight thing was a thing. And they knew I was doing the Fallen Angels. So I think they thought, oh, well, maybe this is something that we could use him as. But honestly, I think once Vince, saw me and, you know, I'm 510.

And this is the time when everybody is six feet something and something, something, it's like, we can do better, you know, and I was like, that makes sense. But you going at TNA at that time was perfect for a guy your size. Yeah, it actually helped. It actually helped me out. And I think that was one of the benefits, too, of being in TNA was so many of us had sort of been passed on by the WWE that we had something to prove. And so early on, all of us guys, AJ and Sanjay and Elix and all those guys, because Joe didn't come in until we were already in Orlando.

So that first year, you know, the SATs and Matt Seidel, you know, there was a lot of us like independent guys that were like, all right, guys, this is our chance. There's a chance. We're on television every week. Let's do it. And that sort of built up that locker room, that camaraderie until we got to Orlando. And, you know, it turned into this thing. And then the Exhibition sort of catch fire. Yeah, the Exhibition was so special.

Yeah. Like, I'd never seen some of the things that you guys were capable of doing. Well, and the good thing about it was, like, a lot of us had worked with each other on the independence. So, like, we were so comfortable with each other that working on television for TNA at that point, it was just like, all right, well, let's go do what we've been doing on the independence and what people were already, already excited about. Let's go out there and do that on television.

I was like, all right, cool. And so all of us were, you know, Saban, Alex Shelley, all those guys. And I'm sure I'm in, after this show is done, I'll be like, oh, I should have mentioned this guy and this guy and this guy because there was so many of us. But, um, Losanjay Dudd, you know, there's another one. Like all of us were just like, well, let's go out there and just, you know, tear it up and do what we've been doing. And that's sort of how, you know, the WCW cruiserweight feeling was sort of attached to the X Division at that point. And that sort of became in the same way that the cruiser weights were the high point of Nitro for a long time. The X Division became like the high point of TNA for a good period of time.

I've had the privilege of speaking to AJ Stiles and Samoa Joe about this match. But I'm so pumped to sit here and talk to you about Unbreakable 2005. Okay. one of my favorite matches of all time. Walk me through just setting up that match. Did you guys know it's going to be special? Yes and no. Like we knew we could do a good match.

Like we had all worked with each other. I don't know if we had done a three way prior to this. But I know I had worked with AJ a bunch. I'd worked with Joe a bunch. I know Joe and AJ had done some stuff. And we were always very similar in our mindset of like, let's get the match over. Let's show off.

Let's show our best stuff. But also we weren't afraid of like, I need to get myself in. None of us were like that. We were like, all right, is this good for the match? Great. Let's do it. And then that day, come to find out, oh, you guys are the main event. And we're like, oh, okay.

And I think we might have asked. And they said, well, we think, you know, the heavyweight title match was Raven, Rhino. And while that's got star power and it's a different vibe, it's not going to, be able to follow what you guys do in terms of action. I was like, okay, that's fair. So that night, as we're going through it, and at that point, too, the impact zone fan base, I felt was very protective and possessive of what, you know,

I feel like they felt like they had found like this uncovered gem that no one else knew about it. So, yeah, these are our guys. And a lot of the Exhibition wrestlers were beneficiary. of that goodwill. And so I feel, and this is, this match sort of cements the mentality of like the last component to like a five-star match to me is, is the atmosphere and the environment. You know what I mean?

Because everything we did that night, like they were there for, you know, and it sounded like, you know, it sounded like the Tokyo Dome, to me, like the people, everybody was going nuts for everything as it's going. you know, however 20 minutes long we went, you know, everybody was there for everything. And that to me was like, oh, you know, we knew at the end, I was like, okay, that went really well. That went really well. I didn't know that we'd still be talking about 24 years later, 20, 20 years. 20 this year.

20 this year. But yeah, I mean, I felt like, I felt like we could go out there and do something good. I just didn't know it'd be that good until after like the bell rang. I was like, oh, that was something. AJ told me that the finish got messed up in some sort of way. Yes. So what was it supposed to be? So, so, okay, so I think we had two very similar spots.

And I think Joe, I want to say Joe started to go to the second spot and spread of the first. And afterwards, and I've thought about this after the fact. And I thought to myself, if I had just gone to Joe right directly there, I could have stopped it and we could have gone to that first spot. But instead, I went and got the belt. because that was like the cue for this second spot. And so everything after me kicking the belt into Joe's face, we're talking on the fly, which is crazy to me.

This is how brilliant you guys are. So, yeah, because the idea was like AJ was supposed to win, but we wanted to do something definitive enough to Joe to keep him out of the ring for the finish. And so, like, I give him the kick.

And at that point, I'm like, oh, shit, we've got 10 more minutes. We got to do something. So the crazy thing to me is, we knew each other so well and we

knew each other's stuff so crazy so crazily well that like we all started trying to talk to each other and like if it was just two of us we could have just talked right there and done it but the fact that I go to AJ and I say let's do this ah and then I go to Joe and Joe

Joe says to me all right let's do this ah like I think there's a moment where I'm in the the STF with Joe and I feel like he and I had like a very long conversation like all right what we do? All right what if you do this When he and I were both, and the funny thing is, all three of us are trying to figure out a way to get Joe out of the ring long enough to do the finish. And yeah, I mean, we're just talking and like we're talking and then AJ and I are talking and then Joe and AJ are talking.

And somehow we got to the thing. We're like, all right, this is the point. And here's the finish. One, two, three. And it's still looked on as this, you know, everyone around on the world. I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it.

One of the greatest TNA matches of all time. Thanks, man. It's crazy. It's crazy that so much of it was, and I don't know if we had kept the entire, the original, how people, I don't know,

I think that we had a finish that everybody would have been satisfied with. And like the fact that it like, we're just like on the fly, just juggling, you know, spinning plates crazily like doing all the stuff. And it still turned out to this. I was like,

all right, well, I can't complain. We never would have known. Yeah. Never would have known. Yeah. Now we tell the story. Now we tell the story.

And when you think of TNA, you're one of the names that immediately pops in a people's head. It's you and AJ Styles and there's a number of other names. But for me, as a huge TNA fan, you're the two names. Oh, thanks. I was shocked when they released you. How could they release Christopher Daniels? I think, you know, I feel like there were times where I butted heads creatively with guys like Vince. Vince Russo.

Vince Rousseau. And, you know, I, sometimes it's easier to eliminate a problem than try to solve it, you know, and I think that's, I was one of the things. And you're the problem? Yeah. Well, I mean, I tried to make sense of stuff. And I never was like, hey, I'm not going to do that. But also, I tried to make sense of things. And, like, I remember I went to Vince and I said, you know, what do I need to do?

What can I do? And he said to me, like, hey, your work is going to get you over. I was like, okay. But then he would write. me into these situations where like he would say like, all right, don't do, don't do any of these hand symbols and stop wearing ring jackets to the ring. And like, it was almost like he wanted me to stop doing anything that had some sort of personality to it. You just wanted me to go out and wrestle. And I tried to make the best of that. But then I would

come back to the back. And I would say like, and I would never say, hey, was that good? I would say, hey, was that what you wanted? And then with the mindset of like, if that's what you wanted and then it didn't work, well, then what's the problem here? You know, if, if, if I, if I went out there and I didn't do what you wanted me to do, then I understand that's my fault. But if I go out there and I do what you want me to do, and you tell me, up, that's what I wanted. And then it doesn't work. Well, then the problem seems to be what you wanted. It wasn't good. So that was, that was sort of my issue with that. So I got let go. And then a year later, he's okay to bring me back. And I remember he pulled me in front, like we had a meeting in front of the entire locker room and he singled me out.

He goes, you know, Chris, the reason we let you go is because you weren't over. Oh my gosh. Okay. But also, I'm doing the stories you're writing and I'm doing the things you want me to do and I'm not over. Maybe those aren't good ideas. So, but you know, I mean, and I'm sure like if he reads this or hears this now, he's going to pipe back and it be like, no, Chris, you just wanted to do high spots. And I was like, no, I wanted to do what would work, but you never really, you didn't really, I don't know. When you look at the resume you had in TNA, how could anybody say Christopher Daniels wasn't over?

I mean, you know, I feel like we were over for our audience. I felt like I was over for our audience. And if you say our audience isn't growing, okay, I bet that's maybe a possibility. But I felt like whenever you put me in a position, it was very rare where I would come back and they would go, oh, man, that wasn't what we wanted at all? What did you do? Like, that wasn't it. They were like, oh, good job, good job, good job. And then I was like, because you don't have bad matches.

I try not to. You don't. I try not to. Yeah. So was there ever talk of you being TNA champion? Like, it's hard to believe you were never TNA champion. No, not really. There was a moment where I thought it could happen and I wish I had sort of pitched it,

but I feel like they had already sort of, they were already sort of committed to the storyline. And I guess I was like, all right, I get it. It doesn't. This really only benefits me to become world champion. and there was a little bit of a, like, so in the time when Jeff Hardy had the belt, there was a time where I had to wrestle him on television before we went overseas to the UK. And at the time, Jeff couldn't go to the UK because of his legal problems at the time.

So I had thought, like, what if? And this was when Jeff Hardy, we were building towards Jeff Hardy and Bulley Ray in the cage at lockdown. And that was going to be where Bully Ray won the title and then revealed himself to be the head of Aces and Ates. But I had thought, well, what if I beat Jeff here? I become world champion. And then I go to the UK next week.

And then Bully Ray beats me there. And we get a title change in the UK. And then Bully Ray comes and wins the world title. And then next week, Jeff says, hey, I want a rematch. And then they do the tage match. And then Bully Ray beats him and then reveals as Aces and Ates guy. So, but I feel like the thing they really wanted was the bully Ray turn. to win the title.

So I thought that would have been the best chance or the best opportunity to make me TNA world champion. But like I said, it only served me in that sense. Like we would have got to pop to have a title change in the UK and that might have been something

that they would have been interested in. But honestly, it was just like, well, put the belt on me, brother. You were the best wrestler to never win a world title until you won the Ring of Honor world title. Oh, thanks. And you won it at 47.

Yes. Did you think that maybe it wasn't going to happen? Sure. I mean, I only, I did not, it did not become a possibility until after we had the match in Boston, me and Frankie versus the Young Bucks versus the Motors 3 machine guns at that all-star extravaganza where we lost the titles in that, basically that TLC match. I can't remember what we called it. Ladder War, called it Ladder War.

that like the week after like maybe even the next day like Kevin Kelly said to me like you know maybe we should think about making you world champion after that performance because I went out there and you know bled buckets and got my ass kicked for however long we went and took all these wacky bumps and I feel like it was one of those things where I won in losing that night and so I think that was the first time where Kevin Kelly was like hmm you know maybe we sort of ride this into you becoming world champion at some point so that It was sort of at that moment that I started to turn baby face and then started this story. And Hunter, who was also doing creative, he had this mentality of like, okay, maybe this is the time where we finally end the story of your drive to the World Championship.

And along the way, I was like, listen, if this isn't good for us, the company, don't do it. Don't do it just to, like, give me like, this accolade. Because if it's good for me and not good for us as the company, it's, not worth it because I don't want to be the guy that's like, oh, look, he, he politiced the good, the world championship. Okay, this guy's a world champion. I didn't want that. So I kept telling him, like, if this is no good, we don't need to do it.

I don't need it. And they were like, no, this is good. This is good. And it ended up being great. Like, I think it ended up being great for everything. Like, it was a good little, oh, it was one of those things that we didn't write it that way in 2002 where I didn't win the belt and never won the belt and never got it in 2010 and finally got it in 2017. But it ended up being that way. And I was like, oh, you know,

it's like a long-term storytelling. Sometimes it just happens that way. Did it feel validating at that point in your career to finally be world champ? Yeah. But I also, I remember going backstage, like whenever we would have a world title change in a ring of honor, a lot of times, we have a meeting in the backstage. Like everybody would get together. And we, you know, basically the guy, would give a speech. And I remember going to the back and going, guys, I just want you to know, I'm fully aware that at this moment, the best wrestler in Ring of Honor does not have your world championship. But I will do everything I can to make this title reign beneficial for all of us. And I want to thank you and blah, blah, blah. Because like, you know, we filled, we had a locker

room filled with great guys. And they decided to put it on me. And I was like, you know, the one thing that I hated, like, guys would come back and they know, hey, champ. And I was like, please don't call me champ. Please don't call me champ. I, you know, thank you, but I, I, I appreciate the sentiment, but it feels so forced. You don't have to do that. I'm still CD. Just thank you, man. Thank you. And fun fact, the person you lost that championship, too, was Cody Rhodes. Yes. Yeah, that was fun. That was a lot of fun to be able to work with Cody. And I remember, I think me and Hunter at the same time decided, oh, Cody should be the guy, you know, because I remember going to him. I was like, hey, you know what about Cody?

And he was like, hey, we think we're about putting the belt on him. I was like, yeah, that's right. Because he's the guy. He's the guy right now. And so when we were going over this thing and talking about, I remember it wasn't until like right before, I think maybe the first time I had ever called a match the night before the show

was that Ladder War thing. And so we did it then. And then I did it the night before the title match with Adam Cole. And I remember getting with Cody the night before. and I was thinking like, hey man, if anybody should appreciate the romance of the idea of like finally winning a world championship and becoming world champion, I think it would be you because of his history throughout this business, I was like, I think I feel like you would appreciate this idea. And so let's, you know, we put this thing together and it went great. And, you know, I was, it was really fun working with Cody. I had a great time.

How can you not be romantic about wrestling? Dude, yeah. I mean, that's, you know, the idea of like the struggle of it all. That sort of we're all trying to tell these stories. We're all trying to be rocky. We're all trying to be, you know, that moment of like, ah, almost getting it and then finally we get it. It's like, you know, that whole thing.

We're all trying to make that, that moment happen. Not long after that was All In, which is the genesis of AEW. You worked Stephen Amel. Yes. So how much is on you to make a match with a guy who is not a wrestler? Look good. Well, I mean, honestly, it wasn't hard because, A, he was a fan, so he had a frame of reference for a lot of stuff.

And B, he was an athlete, or he was athletic. And I think he'd worked one match before. He worked the Summer Slam match. So, yeah, like I said, he had an aptitude for it, and he wanted to do stuff. So, and I recognize, too, like, a lot of this had to do this. A lot of this came from Cody because I think, like, it was his idea to have me and Emel work. And so once the plan was sort of in place,

the idea was sort of get with Amel and, and the funny thing was he was so adamant about losing. And at the beginning of this, at the beginning when it was first introduced, I was still sort of a bad guy. And I thought, that's a terrible idea. If I go out there as a bad guy and beat you in front of this crowd, that sucks, Stephen.

You don't understand how terrible that's going to be. He's like, I got to lose. I got to lose. And I was 100% okay with losing to him if I was the bad guy because that to me is the better thing for the show was like having this guy who's not a wrestler beat this loudmouth arrogant asshole. But then slowly but surely like the SCU started things started to get us get us over as baby feces. And BTE sort of helped me and Frankie and Scorpio become good guys. And so then it turned into a good guy versus good guy. And I was like, okay, this I don't mind winning.

I don't mind beating you in this instance. If we're, you know, I'm an arrogant trash talking guy, but I'm still a good guy and you're still a good guy. And we're just out there fighting. Then that was cool to me. And it ended up being great. And Stephen, I think I tweeted it the night of the match itself, but the fact that he was, you know, filming Arrow and all of these people had their jobs depended on him showing up and working. Like, he couldn't have gotten hurt even though he did. Yeah, didn't he break his hip?

He cracked his hip. Yeah. He, that crazy, the Rob Van Damme drop kick in the corner, they hurt his hip. But like, you know, that risk was there the entire time. And like the thought process of like, hey, guys, I know, I know, you know, you got bills to pay, but I'm going to go wrestle this guy. And if I get hurt, you know, I might be out for a couple months. Like that that process is like, oh, God, are you crazy? Like, risking the livelihoods of all these people.

Yeah, the amount of people in production that are relying on him to be healthy. 100%. And he, you know, he was so cool and so generous to do. to even do the match. You know, I mean, honestly, like, I benefited more from it than I think anybody could have just because, like, it's a match that no matter what else happened on the show, it was memorable. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Yeah, and you knew that mainstream media was going to pick up on that. Yeah. You know, that was, it made headlines everywhere. I ended up being on heels. Like, my picture, the picture of me taking a drop kick was in the opening of heels for like for like three seasons. So. That was September 2018.

AEDW was announced January 1st, 204. Did you hear the whispers at that all-in show that, hey, this could turn into something? Well, I was, myself and Frankie and Scorpio, we were very close with Matt and Nick at the time. And so, like, we heard the rumblings early on. And we were in discussions for this. And Matt and Nick were like, hey, if this happens, are you guys in? And we're like, absolutely. And for me, it was an easy decision for me to think about only because, like, at that point,

I was, you know, 20, like 27 years in. I can't remember, my math is terrible, 24, 25 years in. And I feel like I had done everything that I could do in ROH. I didn't know if there was any sort of upward mobility for me there. And so like the idea of like taking this risk and, you know, going all in with Matt and Nick and Kenny and Cody and those guys, it appealed to me because I was like, well, these guys, the likelihood of them failing is very small.

I thought, you know, everything was firing on all cylinders, like the success of All In. I was like, oh, they're talking about making an All In Federation. I'm in. I'm in. So, yeah, it was easy for me to think about. There seems to be like a renewed excitement about AEDAW over the last, call it six months or so. What's been the new injection of excitement? What's causing that?

I just think, I don't know. I think, you know, just going out there and doing our job and putting up good matches and matches that people are interested in watching. And I feel like people see like an end point now and the idea of who's going to be the guy that beats John Moxley for this title finally. And, you know, this huge event that we're all leading towards and all in in Texas. You know, I feel like there's, I feel like we feel like this momentum starting to build. And I feel like people are, you know, the wrestlers, the matches that we're doing, the stories

we're telling. I feel like that's sort of like, oh, oh, here we go, guys. We're starting to feel the roller coaster start to rev up. Double or nothing was the best A.W card at a long time. Every single match on that card told an amazing story. Every single match was fantastic.

Oh, well, they did great job. Everybody involved did their best, and, you know, that's what they do. That's what they do. What's the story behind the best Moonsalt ever and the name of it? Um, okay, so, uh, I was always a moonsault guy. I always wanted to do a moonsault muda. Great, the great muda inspired me to do a moon salt. And so I started to learn a moon salt like early 90,

94, 95. I was even doing it. I remember doing it for the first time in, um, Puerto Rico when I was in WWC. And so, uh, I was training one day in windy city and there was a, uh, a Mexican wrestle that was there and it wasn't anybody famous and I don't even remember the gentleman's name, but I saw him do like bounce from the second, bounce to the top, do like a cross body. And I thought, oh, that's cool. And at the time, I was playing with this moonsault where you stand on the top rope and then you jump up and bounce, you basically turn and bounce like Mark Merrow had done. And so I was doing that for a little bit and having sort of good success with it.

But then I thought, oh, maybe it'd be easier if I'd just. just did this bounce bounce thing. And so for the longest time, I just called it like the double bounce moonsault. And I wasn't, I wasn't doing it on television at that point. So no one was calling it, the double bounce moonsault.

Like no announcers was calling it. It was just me when I would say, hey, okay, this, this, this, and then I'll hit you with the double bounce moonsault. And so somewhere along the lines in TNA, you know, I'm a Simpsons fan. And so, you know,

everything that comic book guy said was like, best comic book ever. And I thought, ha ha. So I was like, best moon salt ever. Best moon salt ever. Yeah, exactly.

So that was where I got that from. And Tiffany Stratton now calls hers the prettiest moon salt ever. Which I thought was very, very cool of her. Like she, you know, I don't know Tiffany at all. I've never met her. But the fact that she, she didn't just copy it, she sort of adjusted it, which is what the greats do, I feel like they don't just steal. They, they, if we, if we are inspired by something, which.

try to put her own little spin on it. And so the fact that she goes from the bottom all the way up, and then to sort of like pay homage call it in that same vein, PME, I was like, that's pretty cool. I can't, I can't, I can't be mad at that. It's a nice tip of the cap to not just you, but also to just fans who are aware of your work. Yeah, that was very cooler. I appreciated it. Thanks, Tiffany. And somehow Jacob fought too does this as well. He does. And he literally, like, we wrestled one time on the independent. And I said to him like, hey, what's you're finished? And it goes, well, it's the best moon's all to ever.

And I was like, okay, maybe you don't hit me with that tonight. But he was very cool about it. I mean, you know, and the fact that he does it and the fact that he was sort of open about getting it from me. I was like, that's pretty nice, man. I mean, I'm surprised more people hadn't done it earlier than this because, I mean, it's not to downplay how difficult it is because it is, but it's not. It's simple once you know how to do it. And I think so many athletic guys in this day and age of guys like Will Osprey and ricochet and, you know, those guys that can do just about anything.

Like I'm surprised more people haven't done it before. But now that it's sort of coming into, not vogue, but I think, you know, the fact that Jacob is doing it and the fact that Tiffany's doing it, it's pretty cool. It's like, oh, okay, now people are sort of, and people are sort of, a lot of people are sort of pointing at me and going, oh, that came from you. And I'm like, okay, that's nice. That's a nice sort of feeling to have. Well, you make it look so easy.

Yeah, it was, uh, once I figured it out, it got easier. Is there a, that secret to it? Yeah. I mean, honestly, like, for me, the idea was like using the top rope to sort of balance yourself until you bounce. And then once you bounce, it's basically push, push from the top and bounce off the second at the same time to go straight. And you just got to keep your eyes on the, on the ropes.

So, I mean, like, there was, it's, I, I wasn't perfect all the time, but I very rarely flubbed it. And I'm just very lucky to, to be able to do it and keep doing it as long as I did. Watching Jacob Fattu do it is unbelievable. What a freak athlete he is. Yeah. Yeah, he's great. Doing the size that he's at. He's a big boy, very strong.

How did you come up with Angels wings? That, okay. So, um, in, in Southern California, I was doing like weekend lucha shows and I was using a submission finish sort of like the rings of Saturn. And I wanted to come up with a bump to sort of set people up where they're on their stomach and there. And so I started playing with this idea of like, oh, the pedigree is a cool move. But like I said about like the greats don't just take. They sort of adjust.

I thought, all right, what if instead of just grabbing the guy and just going up and down, what if I picked them up and put him And then it turned into, what if I picked them up and turned this way and put it down? And then that bump became more of a thing than the submission finished. So then I just stopped doing the submission. And then I was just thinking like, oh, well, angels wings. That's, it sort of just was like an easy, duh, you know, angels wings. That makes sense. But there's so many components to it.

It's getting the guy up. It's it's him being straight in the air. It's the rotation and it's the landing. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I very rarely had problems having my body do what I was trying to tell it to do. And so, like, for me, you know, I, it was just, I don't want to downplay it. But I mean, to me, it was just easy. It was just like, okay, lift, put, you know, easy.

You make everything look so easy. And I would tell a guy like, all right, just straighten your legs, man, try the suplex style. Just go like this. I'll go like that. And once you're in the air, you can't help me at all. It's like, if I lift you, you've got no choice but to go this way, you know. So I was like, thanks. You make everything look so easy.

Thanks, man. Amazing. How long did it take your eye to heal up? So news flash, that was never real. What? That was fake. Yes. So I had the match with the Young Bucks.

All of you that are watching now, you're going to feel this. So I had the match with the Young Bucks where SCU split up. I get super kicked into the post. And the next day, I had this huge black eye. And I can give you guys pictures to show later down the line. had this huge black eye and it started to fill with blood. And I thought, man, that's pretty cool. And then like three days later, it healed.

And I was like, oh, that's too bad. And then I thought, what if I did? So at the time, Abidon was working for us and she wears these contacts. And I said, do you have a guy that does these contacts? Because I want to do this thing. She's like, yeah, she put me in touch with this guy. And I was like, listen, this is what I want. I just want to make it look like a hemorrhage.

And that was a storyline that I, not a storyline. And I had pitched this idea of like I had lost everything. I made this video that I presented to the AEW and Tony. And I was like, hey, here's the story. I was the ring general, but my plans failed. And because of that, SCU is no longer a thing. And now I have this scar to show for my failure. But I'm going to come back and all I have left is my career and my fighting.

And so I sent this in. and like at the end of that match, I even said to Matt and Nick and Frankie, I was like, this might be my last match. I could retire from this. And if I retire because of this, cool. And so I didn't wrestle for like three or four months. And then I came up with this idea, gave it to Tony.

And then I started doing a little bit of the Indies. And I thought, okay, well, this will get me back on television. But like, we never really capitalized on that. And then I came back like six months later to do the match with Brian when AEWB. about ring of honor. That was my first match back from whenever may, whenever I made the match with the bucks. So, um, so yeah, so that, that was the mentality of like, let's, let's do this thing. And so I kept it for a long time. And then, like later down the line, I was like, oh, we're not really concentrating on this. This isn't really a thing anymore. Um, so I was like, yeah, you know,

what, maybe it's time for the eye to heal. And so, like, I, I wore it for like a year and a half. and I wore it everywhere. Everywhere. Like the first time I debuted it out in the public, I went to the heels premiere. And I met Stephen Mell. And he's like, oh my God,

your eye. And I was like, yeah, man, it's okay. And then the next time he saw me was at, we were at Grand Slam and Arthur Ash. And it comes up to me,

goes, hey, your eyes healed. And I was like, hey, that was fake. And it was like, you son of a bitch. I was like,

listen, we just watched the television show about Kate Babe Man. So what did you want? What did you want? Stephen, come on. I remember you posing on the red carpet. it at that premiere.

Yep. With the eye. I remember we did the last interview we did was online. Yes. And you're talking to me about it. I'm like, I'm lying to you right now. You didn't say that. Of course.

Well, no. I remember, I wore it like when the longest I had to wear it. We were on the Jericho cruise one year. And every time I was in front of the fans, I had that eye in. So like I'm wearing this, this huge contact lines. Like, it's not a regular size contact lens because it covers the white of your eye. So it's pretty large and it's, you know. Could you see through it? Oh, yeah. Perfectly fine.

100%. Because that was the story you kept telling everybody. Yep. With the hemorrhage, yeah, I can see fine. No problem. And I'm like, maybe you should get this checked out. And you're like, I did. I, one time I was at a signing and this, and this goes, oh, how's your eye? And I go, well, you know, it's still like this. And I don't know. And she's like, oh, well, that's weird. You know, I'm a doctor. And I went, yep, cool. And she's like, yeah, that's not really typical. And I go, no, ma'am, it's not. So sorry, sorry, doctor. I didn't mean to lie to you either, but.

Wow. Commitment to a gig, everyone. Commitment to a gig is important. You got us all. Thank you. 30 plus years in now, what's been the biggest change in wrestling that you've seen from when you debuted in the 90s? I feel like the impact of the internet and social media has been so heavy.

And I know that's sort of like, a generic like, oh, of course, dumb dumb. But I mean, so like when I started, I put together this VH test videotape of my highlights. And I would send it out to promoters and be like, hey, this is what I do. And you know what I mean? And then somewhere along the way, you know, we weren't sending videos out. We were just like, hey, here's my, here's my match on YouTube and blah, blah, blah. And now it's like, hey, watch my TikTok 30 seconds and blah, blah, blah.

And so I feel like because of the internet, I feel like attention spans have sort of gotten a little shorter. And so it's a lot harder to catch someone's eye or it's a lot easier to catch someone's eye. You just got to have these moments that, you know, oh, you know, to catch someone's attention and sort of get over. And so like so many guys are getting over with, you know, like a five second clip or a one, you know, a 20 second clip of a move. I was like, oh, wow, you know what I mean? It wasn't like that when I was, you know, you sort of like built your name up by word of mouth and like, oh, this guy's good. You should bring him in, that sort of thing. And now, like, for example, the Super 8 tournament in the late 90s, early 2000s, like if you got in the super 8 tournament, there was this crazy word of mouth of like, oh, God, this guy's a guy.

Let's start getting in booked on our independent shows. And that benefited me a lot. in this day and age of the, and part of that was that, oh, you didn't hear about this person until he came to the Super 8. But now there's so many people that get seen immediately.

There's no secrets. There are no, like, hidden gems out there anymore because everybody's doing their thing online somehow in some way, shape, form, whether it's their Twitter, their Instagram, their TikTok, you're finding out about these things right away. Yeah.

And there are very few hidden gems. in professional wrestling now because of that. And there's good and bad to that. You can look at that one of two ways. Like there's, you can sort of lament the fact that there are no surprises and you're never going to wake up and be like, oh my God,

that guy was awesome because, you know, you'll have found out about it three days ago because of his IG or whatever. Do you feel like fans feel like they know more now? Yeah, well, I think,

I think people tell them a lot more now too. I mean, there are some of us that are still trying to, to, you know, keep the magic hidden. And some people that feel like the magic, letting them do the magic and then telling them why the magic worked is more important. And it's like, okay, you know.

But there are still lovely surprises, like finding out that your eye wasn't real. Well, I mean, that took, but I mean, you have to decide. And you have to decide too. And now I've told you, like, I could have let you believe that for Ron. But I mean, it's cool to find out after the fact,

like, oh, that was a cool feeling. to know for like a year and a half, I believed your eye was bad. And I thought, okay, now's the guy I'm to tell that. And what's cool about that is, well, if I believed that, what else am I believing that might not be true? That's, and I feel like that's the important thing about professional wrestling.

I tell guys all the time. Like, people know what the gig is at this point. There are very few people in this world that still believe 100% what they're seeing on television. But our job is not like to make them questioning it as it's happening. Like, the best work is, the one what's like, oh my God. Was that real?

Was that real? That's the thing. If you can capture that, that's the magic of professional wrestling at this point. And I feel like that was something that I always tried to try to sort of cultivate in my stuff was the idea of like, all right, you know what's happening. But do you know what's happening? And I feel like that's very important this day and age. And even with the idea of how a story progresses. Like if I'm putting together a match,

if I'm thinking about a story, I think where I want to think about where people expect this to go and then can I turn them a different direction and then surprise them that way because, you know, so often people are convinced they know what's happening.

And if you can turn them on a dime, that's when they start enjoying it. They want to be like, oh my God, that's cool. Or, you know, that's what they're looking for. If Christopher Daniels is officially retired, is Curryman officially retired?

They're both retired. We are both retired. Yes. So Curry Man had a match more recently than Christopher Daniels. He did. So is that your final match? Well, that was Curry Man's final match. Oh, okay.

The last match for Christopher Daniels was the match with Adam Page, and that shall be his last match. And then Curryman also decided to hang up the boots after wrestling the Masked brother. Yeah, so it was easy for me. me to decide to do a Curryman match because it was with a friend of mine, like my best friend. And like to have that moment be the official last time I ever take a bump in a wrestling ring for a wrestling match, that was cool.

But also I don't feel like it takes away from anything that happened in the match with Adam because that's the last time you'll see this human wrestling a wrestling match. what was the idea behind curry man to begin with okay so every four years at the time mission of caprault would do a masked man tournament it was a big round robin month long thing and um they did it in 95 and i want to i want to say jerry lynn was in it he wrestled as a gorgans cross was his character and so um this was may of 99 so in april of 99 i do a tour with mission okay pro as christopher Daniels. And afterwards, they're like, hey, we'd like you to be in this tournament because they would have their regular mass wrestlers, you know, Great Saske, Gran Aniwa, Tiger Mask. And then they would

make these characters for the tournament to fill it out. And so they wanted me to be one of the guys. And there was Jason Cross from the UK was one of them. Jody Fleisch from the UK was one of them. And so there was a guy named Kendo, an older Mexican wrestler. And he was translating for me, but his English wasn't great. So, like, he comes up to me the day I get there and he goes, ah, you are Karema. And I go, I don't know what Karema means. Okay, I'm Karema.

And then I get to the building and I see the t-shirt and it has all the names of the wrestlers in the tournament. And it says, Curry Man. And I go, I guess I'm Kuri Man. And so they explained to me, there's a cartoon in Japan called Kinnikuman, which is muscle, muscle busters, muscle wrestlers, something like. that. And there was a character called curry cook. And the gimmick was this curry cook had a plate of curry and rice on his head. And so curry man had this plate of food on his head. And I was like, oh, okay. And so like, and honestly, as racist as this sounds, I didn't know how to play this

character. They just said I was from India. And so at the time, being a Simpsons mark, I became Apu. And I would wrestle like Apu. I would hit something. I'd be like, oh, so sorry, so and I was like, ugh. And so for a while, I thought, oh, this is, this is weird. I just wanted to wrestle. And so I got depressed and I was like, oh, I'm not really feeling this thing. And finally, Gran Hamato, who is one of the older veterans, like, he comes up to him, he goes, hey, hey, just wrestle.

And he walks away. And I was like, oh, yeah. And then I sort of, sort of, then I was like, oh, well, fuck it. I'll just, I'll just have fun. Fuck it. So then I came up with this idea of like in addition to wearing this mask and doing this nonsense, I would come out and dance and I would do all this fun stuff. And I changed my gear from the like the yellow saboo singlet and baggy pants that they gave me.

And I, you know, I just wore what I would usually wear. And I covered, I had a cut off t-shirt like Billy Gunn used to wear to hide the tattoo because, you know, that wasn't Curryman at that time. Or Curryman wasn't Christopher Daniels at that time. So then I started doing all this stuff. and that's where it started to catch sort of fire in Missionoka Pro. And that became like a real popular character for them. And then it stuck around until now. Yeah, I mean, well, I mean, a lot of that has to do with going to TNA.

Like I had pitched, I had pitched, you know, when the fallen angel character I'd sort of come to an end. They kept asking me like, why are you the fallen angel? Why are you a fallen angel? So I remember writing an email to the creative guys. I was like, listen, we can do one or two things. We can just say, listen, the fallen angel, like, it doesn't, the name doesn't, it doesn't have to necessarily mean anything. It's a cool name. Like the heartbreak kid doesn't go technically breaking people's hearts. It's a cool name. Fallen ages is a cool name. Or I could

come and do this curryman character for you. And if you like that, cool. And Jeff liked it. And he was like, all right, let's do this. And so the funny thing was in my head when I was going to come, I did the thing where I got fired and I was going to come back. And in my head, I wanted to be like the yellow dog where I come back and I'm wearing the Korean mask, but I'm talking in my voice. And you talk to me and you're like and I'm like oh hey man your japanese really good hey I'm curry man and I'm here to wrestle and Jeff was like no no no it can't be you it can't be you and then I was like oh so then I changed the idea of he was like you got to have more of a body suit it's not supposed to be you and that was where I came up with the idea of like talking in this

Japanese and um one of the funniest one of the funniest experiences I ever had was working with Juschen Liger. And the first time I ever wrestled him one-on-one, he comes up to me and he goes, ah, tonight, maybe I, I beat you brain buster in that, and that was how his voice sounded. I'm not, I'm not doing like a stereotypical. That was his voice. Ah, maybe brain-busta? And I go, yeah, that's fine. He goes, really? I go, yeah, that's fine. And so, like, his voice was always how I spoke as curryman. I wanted to talk in his cadence and his, you know, he, his English is, you know, sporadic, but that was how I wanted to talk.

And at first, I thought the funny thing as Curryman would be like, I would wrestle, I would name these Japanese wrestlers and pretend that that was the Japanese I was saying. So I'd be like, Kenta Kobashi, Masawa. And like I was saying a sentence, but it was just wrestlers name. And then like three or four months in, I went, oh, I've been here for a while. My English is probably going to get better at this point.

So then I started, you know, talking in broken English and doing it like that. What was the dance? The dance literally was just like, fuck it, I'm going to do something fun. I had a, I came to the ring with a rage against the machine song. And I was like, screw it. I'm going to do dance. So literally, it was a, it was a, I was trying to point, like, I wanted to do this thing where I was pointing.

I was like, look at this plate on my head, everybody. And so it was half Rob Van Damme and half Blue Meanie. And that was the dance. And I was like, fuck it. I'm going to do this. Ah, and that was it. And somehow that became this thing. So like, one of the biggest.

matches that I had. The last match I had before I went to my first WCW contract was the Super Jay Cup. And I'm the only American in the gimmick. And I'm wrestling this guy named Onro, who was like a zombie character. And I remember coming out and the crowd going nuts. And I was like, oh, this is fun. And I was just dancing and I just hop up on a table. And I remember, like, the Japanese young boys were like coming up to the table holding onto it to make sure I don't call back. And so just just having fun. And the crowd was nuts. And I was like, oh, man, this is cool. And that was literally the last time I did Kareman for a while because I was going to WCW. I ended up coming back and still doing it and had fun.

And that after I came back, I got a chance to do a couple of New Japan matches. And then I met, you know, I got with Liger again. I was like, hey, can I come to New Japan? He was like, hell yeah. And that that sort of got me into New Japan as Kuri Man. I appreciate that for so long you didn't acknowledge that it was you. Yeah, I mean, it was fun. And like you can't, you can't imagine how many people I would do at signings where they'd be like, hey, man, I really like, I really like you was curry man.

I was like, I was never curry man. It was Angelina Love. And they'd look at me like, really? You know, I was like, oh, no, Samoa Joe was curryman. Everyone knows that. And they're just like, they literally, and literally people would be like, wait, they had no idea. And I was like, no, yeah, really. I was never curryman.

What are you talking about? John Gonzalez was curryman, you know, things like that. And they were just like, and they'd walk away like, like, what I thought I knew what I was talking about. It also felt like it was the worst kept secret slash also best kept secret that you were suicide. Yeah, and that was inadvertent too. Like, that would never have happened if Frankie didn't get injured when he did. And the funny thing was, I had gotten let go. I had, Curryman had done the feast and fired and he got fired.

And I think I might have been actually let go because I feel like that was another one of those times where I was like budding heads creatively with people. And so I feel like that would have been my out. And then all of a sudden they're like, hey, man, we need you to be suicide. And I was like, okay. And that kept me there for, you know, however long I was, however long I did suicide until Frankie came back. So yeah, that was like one of those things were like, oh, that ended up working out. As crazy as it was, too, like they were so weird about the character itself. Like, they created this character, but it was called suicide, which is a weird character to put in the name of a video game for,

a kid, you're like, hey, what's this name mean, mom? You know, you know, so, but that's not, those decisions are above my head. Yeah. So yeah, I just, you know, I had an opportunity to do this character and, and did it for a little bit. And literally, there's a, there's the, Jay Lethal, bless his heart, had every intention of trying to break me in this, this, this, we did an in ring. It was him and, uh, uh, Austin Woods, uh, Xavier Woods, but like at the time. me as Consequentis Creed and Jay was doing Black Machismo and I'm in the ring and they're accusing me of being

suicide and I'm just straight face, dead face, like looking at them and then Jay just keeps yelling at me or he's a shapeshifter. And I was just like and he was like, I couldn't get your brain. I was like, I'm not going to break dude. I don't break. Are you kidding me? Out of here. I've asked this question of so many TNA greats and I'm curious to hear your answer. What's your TNA Mount Rushmore? who well i feel like joe and a j are obvious obvious i feel like jeff is obvious and i feel like jeff jared and i feel like kirk jared and i feel like kirt angela is obvious so that would probably be it to me and christopher daniels is also obvious i don't put myself on there for that only because i feel like

i was more of a supporting player for a lot of guys there than a main player even even when i had had the focus on me. It was never really to, it was never really meant to be me. It was meant to be me being an antagonist for the actual main player. So I feel like as, as cool as it is for people to contemplate me being on their Mount Rushmore, I feel like the best thing I ever did was I was a support system for someone like AJ or someone like Joe or someone like America Most wanted when me and Elix were the guys. Because it was never, we were never the main focus. We were always the guys that were the obstacle for the main focus to overcome. So that's how I felt. And I feel, you know, Jeff, Jeff, for everything that he did to make TNA, TNA, he obviously

should be there. And then Kurt being Kurt. And then the two guys that I think were the heart and soul of TNA, AJ and Joe, to me. The X Division is not the same without you, though. Well, I appreciate that. It's true. Well, thanks. And I, Kurt's a big one. I think people sometimes forget that before Kurt was Christian Cage coming in. Sure. Yeah, yeah, that's true. And Christian did a lot of great stuff there as well.

But even Kurt will tell you the best work of his career was done in TNA. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And I was fun. Like, I got a chance to wrestle him once in UPW early on, like in 2000. Wow. Because he and I were in the Terry Funk Dojo together. or the Dory Funk Doja together at the WWE in like 98.

And I got to wrestle him there at UPW in 2000, like a couple months after my first contract, I got let go and had a great experience working him. That was, he had a concussion from the triple H, triple-h, a angle triple threat. When the Nail's table broke too early. He had a concussion.

So like I get there that day and Bruce Perchard's like, hey, our Olympic hero can't take a bump tonight. I was like, oh, okay. So then I make this match up where he's taking like all belly bumps and, and we're doing all this grappling and had this match. And like had one of the best experiences ever with Kurt. And then being able to wrestle him again in TNA was a pleasure. Like he was fun.

And he always, I feel like he always treated me like a peer, which was awesome. I mean, because he didn't have to. He, and especially at that point, he comes into TNA and he's Kurt Engel at this point. But, like, he knew that if he was wrestling me, like, we were on the same page. I could put stuff together and he was cool with it. And, like, he trusted me and always, I feel like he always had a positive outlook towards working with me. Well, look, I could talk to you all day.

Yeah. Such an absolute pleasure to be able to sit across from you and talk about your incredible career. Thank you for everything you've done. in the ring. Thanks very much, man. I appreciate that. Thank you. It's an amazing career, and I hope you know how much your work meant to so many fans across the world. Yeah, I'm getting that. It's tough to sort of put a period at the end of that. But yeah, you know, I'm happily, I'm doing like signings now and getting an opportunity to say thanks to the fans for supporting me throughout this,

this crazy ride. And I'm still going through locker rooms and running into people and being like, hey, man, I really appreciate wrestling you. You know, I'm having this discussion with a lot of different wrestlers, different times. I still have a lot of people in the AEW locker room to be like, pull them aside and be like, hey, you don't know how much I appreciated wrestling, how much being in the ring with you meant to me, you know. So I mean, it's, it's a big deal. And I'm lucky, I'm lucky that I hopefully I can help the guys that I work with in AEW as a producer. Hopefully I can sort of help mold those experiences for them so that when they're in this position, they're like, oh man, these moments were great.

I hope, you know, I hope they have that same feeling that I'm having when I think about all this. On behalf of all fans everywhere, we just want to say thank you. Thanks very much. Thanks, guys. Thanks for watching. And I'll ask you the question that I ask everybody at the end. gratitude is such a huge part of my life. And I wake up every day, say out loud three things I'm grateful for.

And I do it before I go to sleep. What are three things in your life you're grateful for as we sit here right now? Well, I have to say I'm grateful for professional wrestling for giving me the life that I've led. Like, if there wasn't professional wrestling, I wouldn't be with the woman that I am today. I wouldn't have the children that I have today. I wouldn't live in the house that I have today. I wouldn't be financially stable like I am today. All of that is because of professional wrestling because I would put on a pair of tights

and I would rub myself with baby oil and I would fall down up and down in a ring for however long. Like I got to travel the world. I got to wrestle in some of the best wrestling locations ever. You know, I was in the Tokyo dome. I was in arena, Mexico. You know, I've made evented pay-per-views. I've done these things. You know, I like to say, like, I've done less than some, but more than most, which is a cool thing to say.

And all that is because of professional wrestling. And then past that, I have to say that I'm grateful for my wife, Lisa, and my children, Jericho and Joshua, because if I didn't have that support system at home, like all this life going away from home, all that life would have been somewhat meaning. Like it would have just been like, you know, noise, noise in a vacuum to me. But I mean, because I had that drive to provide for them and to help them and make our family as strong as I could, like, it was an easy decision to be like, okay, well, I have to travel today. But I'm doing it because of these three people at home. So, so, yeah, I'm going to, that's, that's the big one to me. Like, I don't know if I can find a third that's going to be as high up as those two things. Yeah, so I'm grateful that they supported me as long as they did.

I feel like they sacrificed a lot so that I could do this dumb, this crazy nonsense that I did for so long. And still am doing, even though it's more like the puppeteer behind the scenes, like, ha, ha, now you get to fall down. So, so, yeah, I think those, that's the tough. I'm going to say wrestling, kids, wife. All right. One, two, three. One, two, three.

Sir, thank you very much. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. And I've never met a Chris I don't like. Excellent. We could talk for 19 more hours. Let's do it. Well, whenever, I'm close by.

So we'll do it again. Thank you. Thank you. What a legend and what a career. An absolute honor to share this conversation with Christopher Daniels. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. Snap a screenshot and let us know that you listen to this. Tag us.

He's at F.A. Christopher Daniels. Daniels on Instagram. He's at FAC Daniels on X. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and we'll wrap this up with a quote from Eleanor Roosevelt. I am who I am today because of the choices I made yesterday. Be great and be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. Ask CVV number 90 is tomorrow. If you're listening on Spotify, leave a comment with your question for Ask CVV or shoot me an email, CVV at chris fanfleet.com or send it on social media using that hashtag Ask CVV. We'll see you back here tomorrow to wrap up the week.

Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack.

Take advantage of it, but get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What should be? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.