Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Cody Crybabies, Hollywood Rock, Tribalism & What This Era Should Be Called w/ Sam Roberts

Episode Date: March 21, 2024

Sam Roberts (@notsam) is a broadcaster, podcast host and WWE personality. Chris Van Vliet sits down with him at the NotSam Studios in New York City to talk about how wrestling has entered a new era and what it should be called, the exact moment this era began, how The Rock's return has changed the landscape of WWE, how social media promos play a factor in TV storylines, Cody Crybabies, our predictions for WrestleMania 40, the best and worst WrestleMania of all time, his favorite movie starring a wrestler, dissecting The Fast & Furious franchise and much more! Subscribe to NotSam Wrestling on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@NotsamWrestling Sponsors: PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! BABBEL: Learn a new language and get 50% off your lifetime Babbel subscription at http://babbel.com/cvv MAGIC SPOON: Get $5 off with the code CVV at http://magicspoon.com/cvv RHONE: Upgrade your closet with Rhone and use CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight MUDWTR: Get 15% off with the code CVV15 at http://mudwtr.com/cvv MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% on your BONCHARGE Infrared Sauna Blanket! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris. Hello, my friends. Welcome back to another one. Here on Insight, I'm CVV. Chris Family, thank you for being here. And thank you for making Insight, one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. You know, I don't ask for much.

But my goodness, you would make me the happiest Canadian. If you just click that follow button, wherever you're listening to this right now. That's it. Just click follow. If you happen to be listening on Apple Podcast, podcast or Spotify and you have a spare 36 seconds today, please leave a rating or review. That'd be the cherry on top. So how you feeling? Two weeks away from WrestleMania and I've said it before.

I will say it again, wrestling is hotter than it's been in a very, very long time. I think there's a lot of factors at play here. And honestly, I don't really care what those factors are. I'm just excited about wrestling. And I've always been a fan, but I think we can agree that there's been some times where, you know, you could go a week or two without watching Raw or SmackDown. But right now, it is must-see TV. And I had a wonderful chat about all of this with my good buddy, Sam Roberts. You know him from the WWE pre-shows and the bump, also from his serious XM show that he hosts with Jim Norton. And of course, from his wrestling podcast, not Sam Wrestling. I'm sure you're already following it, but if not, go follow Not Sam Wrestling.

When you go click that follow button on Insight. Our broadcasting careers are actually parallel in a lot of ways. He started as an intern in June of 2005 and it led to his first on-air job. I started as an intern in May of 2005 and it led to my first on-air job. We also both started interviewing wrestlers because of the access that we had from those broadcasting jobs. jobs. You know, they were wrestlers that happened to be in town promoting whatever it was that they were promoting. And we had the chance to sit down with them and also put those long-form, raw interviews on YouTube. So I just always love chatting with Sam, whether that's on camera or off-camera. And it was great just diving into the nitty-gritty of the current state of wrestling

and how fun it is that new fans are tuning in. When he said that during this interview, it was like, you know wrestling is like in a new spot right now when new fans start tuning in. You're not just seeing people who have been watching for years. You're seeing people who just started watching like a month or two or three ago. And I love it. We also try to come up with a name for what this new era of wrestling will be called. And I just love the way he can break down any topic. Like he's such a fan and he's so eloquent with the way that he speaks. That is why he's why he's. he is a professional broadcaster. He will tell you the last professional broadcaster.

Snap a screenshot. Let us know what you think of this one and tag us on social media. He's at Not Sam. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And a big thank you to Sam for letting us record in his amazing studio at his house. I mean, you've seen, if you subscribe to his YouTube channel, you've seen the interviews he's done there. He just recently had one with Adam Copeland, formerly known as Edge.

I recommend that you go check that out, but in the meantime, please enjoy this chat with Sam Roberts. We're doing it? I think so. I hope so. I mean, otherwise I'll be very embarrassed

because this is my stuff. It's the Not Sam Studios with the Insight logos behind us, so thank you for putting those up. Of course. What's up, man? It's been so long since I talked to you, you had hair the last time you were on the show.

Yeah, yeah. I was actually just talking to somebody that was doing something with me, but they hadn't met me. And they were like, yeah, I googled you before you came in. And I was like, oh, look at this guy. He's got all kinds of wild hair, huh? And everybody was like, no, not anymore.

Not anymore. Dude, thank you for having me over. Congrats on all of this. Like in this space you have here, it's amazing. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I built it. But yeah, no, I really, I mean, I love it. But you've literally built all of this.

I have. I'm kind of a, yeah, I'm a big believer in that. And I like it. I like it. And sometimes to get things the way you like it, if you just build them, there'll be how you like it. I don't know how you find the time in your day

with three kids, the job on Sirius XM, that I don't think a lot of people even know that you do. Like wrestling fans are like, what? He talks to non-wrestlers too. Then you've got all the stuff with WWE.

Do you just not sleep? I don't, honestly, sleeping is not great. There are days. It is those, like, you find days in the week where you're like, that's going to be the night that I can sleep. And like, you know, I mean, after the Australia pay-per-view, when we did the pre-show from Stanford, it was like that Saturday night, I slept for, because the pre-show was not at 4 a.m.

Yeah. Call time was 1.30. So, and then we did a bump post show after the pay-per-view. So it's like, you know, it was the, so I probably went to sleep at like 10 o'clock that night and then slept for about 11 hours, probably. except I have a newborn and I didn't hear that baby. Thank God for I have an attentive wife. Because I was like, that's where my body was like, no, you're going to be unconscious for the next 11 hours.

And then we'll catch up after it. We'll talk to you after. Yeah, we've got a newborn too. So you know. I know. And I love sleep. Like I prioritize sleep, not just like, oh, I love to sleep. Like I know how good it is for your body.

Physically fit people do prioritize. Come on. You're a super physically fit person. I saw the deadlifts. Right. And my trainer will be like, you know, don't forget to prioritize sleep. I'm like, look, there's, you know that's not going to happen. Oh, man.

It just, it should. It's so important. It's so important, but it's not at the moment 100% realistic. And then also at night, I mean, I don't fall asleep early. Like, I can't go to bed. And it's, yeah, that part's a disaster. I haven't had an uninterrupted night of sleep since she was born. Actually, that's not true.

There were times when, like, I was out of town for work, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I slept eight hours through. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, yeah, I can't sleep in hotels either, so that's a disaster. Yeah, I wake up, like, every two hours when I'm in hotels. But so, like, when you started getting your eight hours interrupted, because of the baby, was that, like, a big shift for you? Like, because you can't, that's the other thing.

When you have kids, it's kind of all you can prioritize. Like, you can go, like, I'm prioritizing my. I diet and I have this like regimen of, of meals, and I eat this and I eat that, and this is when I eat and I eat this much, and this is when, this is when, but once you have kids, it's like you're working around their schedule. And you just get in where you can get in. And that's why I made my goal to get in the best shape of my life for my 40th birthday. It was like a week before our daughter was born.

So it's like, I can prioritize all of this. Like if I'm waking up and doing cardio for 30 minutes in the morning and then eating these six very specific meals and working out as much as I was, I can do this. Right. And then as soon as Logan was born, it's like, well, it's so tough now. Yeah. It's so tough because what am I supposed to say to my wife, you know, and we've got a two-week-old baby screaming at home, well, I'm going to go to the gym and sit in the sauna afterwards.

That's the other thing. Like, you have to... See a few hours. It becomes difficult to prioritize the things that are being done in self-interest. And I don't mean that in, like, a bad way. I mean, like, you're doing that to maintain yourself at your peak, physical whatever. Yeah. But when you have kids and a wife and like you're now doing this together, you can't go, well, it's very important that I eat every three hours.

I'm going to need to take a break from that so I can have my meal here and my meal there. It's like you can't justify it anymore. You've somehow made it work. Yeah. I mean, I try to justify. Everything has to be kind of justified. There's stacks of unbuilt Lego set. Lego sets over there.

Because I can't justify going like, I didn't take a couple hours to myself. That's not fair. That's not realistic. This is the thing that's tough, though, when you are the business. Right. Everything you're doing has some sort of connection

to what you're doing in your business, your content creation business. They're not same business. So it's hard to step aside for half an hour, an hour, a day to do things that aren't, you know, this.

Yeah, you have to be very honest, I think, with yourself when it's like, yes, I am doing this thing. Like, I'm rewatching the Rocks promo from SmackDown. And it is actually essential. I know I'm going to have to, I want to get on and do like a monologue. It's going to be like 25 minutes. And I want to have every detail in my head. Like, I want to really be able to talk about this with a level of expertise. Yeah.

Then there are other things where it's like, well, if I can watch that rock promo for work, then I should also be watching this movie for work. And it's like, no, no, no, you're watching the movie for pleasure. You're just saying it's for work. But you have to constantly keep yourself in check to say, can I? And I think the trick is like, can I justify this to my wife? Like, she's, it's like having a trainer at the gym.

Like, she's there to hold you accountable. Can I explain to her why it's so important that I watch 90-day fiancé? No, of course not. That's absurd. But what you do for work extends out beyond wrestling. And not everybody knows this because what you guys do with Jim and Sam is all pop culture. And it's very much the here and the now.

So if you need to watch 90-day fiancé, because it'll be a great segment on the show, then I guess you've got to watch it. And that happens. I watch a lot of 90-day fiancé. Like that does absolutely happen. And watching the documentaries or, you know, because I have to also do the stuff that I do with Jim and Sam

or the not-Sam stuff that's not wrestling or the stuff with Nicole unsatisfying. But also, I mean, I like all that stuff. Of course. I like consuming all the stuff going on in our weird world and just kind of analyzing it, you know? Football season may be over, but the action on the floor is heating up. Whether it's tournament season or the fight for the playoff home court, there's no shortage of high-stakes basketball moments this time of year. Get out on the excitement with prize picks, America's number one fantasy sports app where you can turn your hoops knowledge.

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Certainly in 20 years. Easily in 20 years. Easily. Wrestling's cool again. The Rock even says. said it in that Instagram promo. He's like, wrestling is cool again. I'm like, yes. Yes, but I also like that because the Rock is a heel, like us nerdy wrestling fans can be like, what are you talking about? Wrestling's been cool for the whole time. Wrestling was ever not cool? What are you talking about?

People that are around our age will, a lot of people will go back to a certain feud in the attitude era. Like, it's either Rock Austin or Austin McMahon, that that's the thing that got them in. It certainly is for me. Like, that really got us into being the wrestling fans we are now. What's going on right now is going to be the thing that people are talking about 10 and 15 and 20 years from now of like, oh, when the rock came back and turned heel, that's when I either got into wrestling or got back into wrestling. 100%. And you could say the same thing for Cody, I think, too. It's been really, like, one of my favorite parts about this era of wrestling has been meeting

new wrestling fans. Because that's, I feel like, how you know that things are really getting hot again. without even realizing it, I went years without ever meeting a new fan. I met fans, but I never met a new fan. I met fans that have been like, oh, yeah, I've been watching for years. Oh, me too, let's be friends. But never like, oh, I'm a hardcore fan today. And I started watching eight months ago.

And that's happening all the time now. Even when I'm doing my podcast, like my pie cast is such an inside baseball nerdy. Like, you have to be a hardcore wrestling fan to listen to my podcast. And then you have to be an even more hard. hardcore fan to email into the podcast for the email segment. And then I'm getting emails from people that are like, I started watching at WrestleMania last year. And it's like that's how you know.

There's so much going on right now that it's brought people in over months. Yeah. To become that level of fan. And what I love about that is we welcome them in with open arms. It's the best. This isn't like the bandwagon fans in sports. Like, you know, if the Golden State Warriors start getting really good or, the Patriots are on the run that they were on or the chiefs or whatever.

And the bandwagon fans come in and people are like, oh, but how long have you been watching? Right. Oh, you just started watching last season? Oh, geez, get away from me. Yeah. I love here that it's like, oh, you just started watching? Let me tell you everything that you need to know. And I like, my experience with it has been that people are, like, new fans are interested in hearing the stories.

Like, they're not pretending. Oh, yeah, I know. I've been watching forever. They're like, no, I just started watching. Can you explain to me? Yeah. Like, can you explain? Why did The Rock say that Birmingham, Alabama was so important for wrestling?

Sit down. Let me tell you. Like, and I love that, and I love that so many new fans are so into what's going on now that they get hungry for those history lessons. They want to know, like, why are you guys freaking out about the shirt? Why are you guys freaking out about the rock shirt? It's like, oh, the attitude area. He had a different $500 shirt every night.

And you would say it was, that shirt cost more than $500. I know, but that's what it was called then. You know what's so great about the Rock's $500 shirt now is I think it signifies what that character is. Like when the Rock came out and he wasn't wearing Under Armour and the Rock came out and he wasn't promoting Zohar, Taramana or Project Rock, we went, oh, this is not Dwayne Johnson

cutting a promo in a wrestling ring. This is the Rock. It's also not Hollywood Rock, which people are like, oh, Hollywood Rock is back. No, Hollywood Rock wore a black leather vest. Yeah. Hollywood Rock. Big belt buckle.

Yes. It was a different deal. It was a different evolution of the character. To me, yeah, this is like when Rocky Myvia was a white meat baby face and people started chanting Rocky sucks, Rocky sucks, the rock came out. And he was the rock and he was disrespectful to the fans and he spoke in the third person. He started wearing those shirts and he wore sunglasses all the time. And what happened?

Like all these years later, the rock comes out as a white. meet baby face to take on Roman reigns. And what do people start chanting? Rocky sucks, Rocky sucks. And what happens? The exact same thing. This is what happens when you chant Rocky sucks. This is the monster that you create.

It's so, I mean, if you really want, yeah, the deeper you want to go. Yeah. The more that's there. Wrestling is cool again. What's the moment now that made it cool? What's the moment that has started the era that we're in right now? I think Because when you look at the ruthless aggression era

We all know the exact moment, right? It's John Cena, it's Kurt Angle in the ring. Ruthless aggression, the slap. That's the moment to start the ruthless aggression angle or era. What's the moment that started this era that were now? I think the overall angle that is responsible for this era is the bloodline angle.

The bloodline story is what brought us here because for so long we were saying, remember long-term storytelling? Remember when they used to tell real stories? And they did it and they nailed it. And that's the long-term story. But if you want to narrow it down to one singular moment, I think it was Cody returning at 38.

I think when Cody walked out and the AW music played and he was the American nightmare and the logo. Like this is stuff that I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it. Like when that logo is in a stadium and you're like, this is not WWE's Cody Rhodes. This is Cody as we saw him on TNT. coming back to WWE as this hero. I think if there's one moment

that kicked it into high gear and changed the momentum, that would be the one moment that I would trace it back to. And I think that if we follow that storyline along, that timeline along, Triple H becoming in charge has shifted everything.

It shifted the entire momentum. Like there's been... I remember Triple H at the press conference last year for WrestleMania. So, WrestleMania 39. I remember him saying like, wrestling's hot now. And I went, it is. And hearing him say that, I went, oh, wow.

Yeah, no, it is hot right now. And it's like in Triple H we trust. For the last year or so, the storytelling has been magnificent. Like, he really hasn't missed. And that's why I've been saying to so many people that have been questioning, what's going on here? Is it going to be some sort of triple threat match? Is it going to be this tag team match they've been teasing?

I've just been saying, be patient. just be patient. Triple H has not let us down yet. I'm sure that day will come, but he hasn't let us down yet. Yeah, that's where let him cook comes from. That's what I mean just let them cook, right? And that doesn't mean necessarily,

don't worry, there's an exact scientific plan here, and they're going to follow it to the letter, and it's going to wow us all. It's just these are people who know how to use the ingredients that they have in front of them, right? So even if there is a misstep along the way, and who knows if there was or not, that's the beauty of it.

We don't know if this was a picture, or if this was the plan all along, because both theories to me make sense. But by the time we get to the destination, it's going to be like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, there were people after WrestleMania 39. Cody loses. Yeah. I'm done. They don't know what they're doing.

This is so stupid. Cody's finished. Cody's finished after this. How could you do this? Cody's hotter than he's ever, ever, ever been. And I mean, that, and that to me is what you have to look at. And I do think that the Triple H era and the creative around that regime has, I mean, it's earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Yeah. You know, and you could say before like, oh, no, no, no, they screwed this up, they screwed that up, they screwed this, but this isn't they. Yeah. This is a different day. It's funny that WrestleMania 39 for a lot of people, like, I loved WrestleMania 39. Yeah. It's funny that a lot of people disliked the entire show, both nights, Saturday and Sunday

because of the last three seconds of the final match. It's beautiful. That's wrestling. It's just, it's so funny to me. And then if Cody had won, it would have been the best WrestleMania ever. Right. But Cody lost, oh,

WrestleMania 39 sucked. But we got, you know what? We got two nights of WrestleMania, and we got Sammy and K.O. That was fantastic. Winning in the most beautiful way, humanly possible, with the PWG references on their gear,

beating the Uso's, having that moment in the headline match. The tag team championship is in the main event of WrestleMania. all the stars aligned. And there was so much good. You had Ria and Charlotte. You had Ray and Dom. You had all these great things.

And then unfortunately, yeah, the hero lost. But the match was still great. The match was fantastic. Solo coming out, I get that people are over that whole thing. But again, what if? And I'm not saying I know, right? But what if there's a reason? Like, they know that people are tired of solo interfering.

I was at the Royal Rumble going. You gotta be kidding me. All I wanted was a clean win for Roman. Why are they doing the solo thing again? They know that we're all saying that. Yes. Like, what if we get to a point where it's like, oh, this story that's being told now,

and now might be a month from now, now might be a year from now, works because he did need all this interference all the way. And I wish that we could think in that way. And I get that for decades, we would see things happen on Raw or SmackDown and go, what is going on here? We'd be collectively rolling our eyes

and there'd be no real payoff. I understand that that's where the trauma comes from here. But if you were to take that approach to any other television show, could you imagine being in the middle of like season three of succession? And, you know, an episode ends and just like being angry

and like taking to the internet to complain. No, you watch the episode and you go, I don't, what does that even mean? Like, I don't understand why that character's doing that thing. But you just wait until the next episode. And then you go, oh, that explains why they did this. And then you wait till the next episode, oh, that unfolds this story even more so.

I just wish we could have a little bit more patience. Yeah, I also think that it's very sort of Marvel Avengers endgame thinking that is happening right now where it's like, yeah, these are all movies and they're all important. But the payoff is coming three movies down the road, right? The pay, this isn't the payoff. Like, you might think that this payoff doesn't justify what happened, and it doesn't. But that's because the real payoff happens all the way over here. When that payoff hits, it's going to hit like a sledgehammer. No pun intended, because that's what Triple H likes to use.

I'm very curious where it goes from here, because I think that we're seeing, we appreciate John Sina now. John Sina was gone. He came back. Instead of singing John Sina sucks, they're singing the lyrics to his song. oh my gosh, John Cena's not going to be here forever. Let's appreciate him while he's here. That's certainly going to happen with The Rock. How long is the Rock going to be around for?

Well, that's a great question, and I'm optimistic because he's on the board now, right? Like, he's a part of TKO and a very strong, important part of the company now. Yeah. So I feel like, and I also think that that's what makes it fun, that it hasn't been said. We know he's going to be on SmackDown three weeks in a row. right, but it hasn't been, it hasn't been said, is he just in for WrestleMania season?

Yeah. Is he in for longer than that? Is he going to pop in and pop out more often? We don't know, but we can speculate wildly now more so than ever because he is attached, which he hasn't been attached in a long time. Yeah. It was funny when he came back January 1st, day one, and people were like, okay, so if that roam in a rock match is going to happen,

let's do it at Elimination Chamber. And I'm like, if you think the Rock is coming back to wrestle at elimination chamber. No disrespect to elimination chamber or to Australia, but like, if the Rock's going to wrestle, I would have to think it's happening at WrestleMania. Especially if it's going to be Roman. Like, that's a WrestleMania match. There have been all, like, and you can theorize it all kinds of different ways. And I get why you would because people love Cody and people want to see Cody finish the story and that's big and I'm 100% with it. But I mean, WrestleMania is always going to be WrestleMania. It's always going to be WrestleMania. And if you have the biggest match, because

he's right. I mean, it's part of the storyline. But Rock and Roman is. is on paper, without the context of everything else, by itself, in a vacuum, the biggest match you could do. Absolutely. That's got to be at wrestling. And I understand the backlash because, like, that match would have made a lot of sense last year. And it sounds like we were really close to getting.

It honestly made sense until Cody Roach won the Royal Rumble. Which, but then what do you do, right? Like, if they had this plan all along, if we're going to speculate like that, right? If we're going to use that as our frame of reference, then what do you? do you do at the Rumble? Do you still have Cody or possibly CM Punk if you didn't get injured win the Rumble? And then the Rock inserts himself into this. Does the Rock win the Royal

Rumble? So what I had was, I was like, okay, well, what the move, but again, it's like, you say what the move should have been. Like, what they should have done is, meanwhile, everything's sold out, ratings are up, paper, like everything is the most watched

everything, so what they should have done. How about what they should have been is exactly what they're doing? But, but yeah, I mean, you, If you wanted to avoid what you've got now, yeah, in my mind, it's like, well, what if Walter had eliminated Cody before even the final five? Wow. Gunther eliminates Cody.

Now you've got a whole other story cooking over here, who knows, we go, we don't go, whatever. And then, yeah, CM Punk wins the Royal Rumble. And then if he's injured, we figure that out later. Like, we'll figure it all out. But I don't know. I mean, what if it's better that we did it this way? Because it is.

I mean, I've had two emergency podcasts a week. It's pretty awesome. And, I mean, who's to say we're not going to get Rock versus Roman Raines at WrestleMania? Next year? Right. Who's to say? It doesn't sound like it's going to happen this year. And I also, and it's part of a bigger discussion of like what was planned and what was not planned, what was a pivot.

Was there any pivot? But I don't think that they were going to have Cody win the rumble. to then have Rock just come in and make this match with Roman without them realizing there would be some sort of backlash. That's a big thing for me. And I think even WWE realizes like, well, we can't just put the Rock in here without explaining this other thing on the side.

Yeah. And when he, like Cody pointed at Roman at the Royal Rumble. He pointed, when he won the Royal Rumble, he pointed at Roman. Yes. And it was like, like, that's the difference. Like, it's not, it's not, Oh, well, you said you wanted Rock v. Roman.

Now you don't want Rock v. Roman. Well, yeah, we do want Rock v. Roman, but you, like, there's an investment made into Cody by fans. Yeah. And he pointed at Roman Rains. You told us this is happening. How can you now tell us this is not happening? Yeah. Which, to your point, is why, like, there's no way you don't understand that there's going to be backlash from that.

What is important to point out is Rock v. Roman was never announced, ever. Ever. It was teased heavily. but it's not like it was ever like on a marquee, the Rock versus Roman Reigns, you know, the Bloodline feud. That was never announced.

It was heavily teased, but people were making it sound like that match was like written in stone and now they're trying to pick up the pieces and put things back together. I don't know. That didn't happen. They didn't even have a graphic.

That's my thing, the graphic. The graphic. I'm all about the graphic. When you show me a graphic, it's for real. And they never had a Rock versus Roman Raines graphic for WrestleMania.

Yeah. The second the press conference was over, which was great. But the second the press conference was over, there was a Roman Reins versus Cody Rhodes graphic. I said, okay, that's a match. Yeah. Right?

I saw a stare down between the Rock and Roman Raines. I saw Cody leave the ring. Yeah. Looking not happy. Yeah. No graphic. No graphic. This tag team match, the challenge has been made.

I think the tag team match is happening. Yeah. I thought it was happening a week ago. Like, going into the elimination chamber, I said, you know what? I think the tag team match is the way to go. But as of this recording, no graphic. This episode is brought to you by Blue Chew.

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say he wanted the Rock one-on-one and then this is going to morph into two-on-two? Well, because I was watching this going like, this is what the Rock is like at the negotiation table. This is what the Rock is like when he's talking to like Netflix,

when he's talking to like Hollywood Big They go, this is what we want to do. The Rock goes, absolutely not. But we could do. All right, Rock, we'll do it your way. You know, I think I think that's what we got a taste of. I think the thing that we'll define this era is the fact that storylines can unfold in places other than Raw and Smackdown and Dynamite and Collision. And that's been so exciting to see because this never really happened ever any other time.

The Rock's cutting a promo on his Instagram. 20 minutes. 20 minute promo. Instagram, then the press conference in Las Vegas that was watched, you know, more people watch that than they watched an episode of Raw or SmackDown. That to me shows that the era we're in right now has never happened before. I would agree with that. I say that this era, and I talk about it all the time, rule number three, there's three rules on Nazi am wrestling. It's watch the product, speculate wildly, and rule number three is essential to this era,

which is everything counts. And it hasn't always been that. way that everything counts, but everything counts. When the Rock says this at a press conference, it counts. It counts for the story. When, when Seth Rollins is standing there, and he's not even announced as part of this thing, but he's a part of this thing. It counts. You can't discount it. You can't just go like, well, Seth's now going to fight Drew. Well, okay, but that doesn't justify why Seth was so heavy. Like, why did Seth and Cody happen? Why did Seth have Cody's back? Like, why is all this happening if he's just going to go fight Drew? Well, no, because everything counts. so now that has to be answered to as well.

And that's such an interesting point to raise because for a long time, nothing really counted. Right, you can just go like, nah, we're doing something else. Yeah, they'd be like, oh, but look at this thing over here instead. Yeah, yeah. That happened for the longest time. Like, there's still a long list of storylines that have no finish. Right.

It was behind GTV. I don't know. We'll never know. Yeah. Wasn't there something like this? Bro, it was supposed to be Tom Green, bro. Wasn't there something just a few years ago where the top roe? was cut.

Bro. Yes, it was the demon versus the tribal chief. And Finn Baller goes to the top rope. And I said it, I'm an internal optimist when it comes to being a wrestling fan. And the demon is ready to squash the tribal chief and the rope breaks.

And Roman's able to pin Finn Baller. And I go, just give him a second. Just let him explain that. And then the explanation is, no, I don't know, it just broke. And you're like, what do you mean? It just broke. It just broke? It just broke.

It just broke. It just broke. Things break. It just broke. He's the demon. What do you mean? It broke. What do you want me to do?

Ring broke. It just broke. There's a lot of those. Yeah. But that's not happening now. Right. And I appreciate that they're respecting that wrestling fans are smart. That's it.

That's it. That they're not insulting the intelligence. And they're rewarding you. Like if you're going to watch every week, if you're going to watch every minute of content. And then just over-analyze and really, like, unpack these storylines, you should be rewarded. Like, it should be, like, you can, if you just watch the clips of Raw on Twitter, you should be able to follow what's going on. But then you also get, if you watch every second, you get rewarded because there are all these little things that add up to the bigger things.

We saw, like, seeds of this with being the elite, and then stuff would happen on dynamite. And you'd go, oh, that's the thing. get that. Yes, I get that. Or that chant. I understand why the fans are saying that. So this has been around for a handful of years and the fact that it's now being done across the board, it's like, okay. What do you think they're going to call this era? I mean, that's a good question. They might, honestly, they might just call the Triple H era. That's the change, right? That's what everybody... If he's in charge for 30 years.

I call the bloodline era. It's a good name. I'm bloodline, baby. One's up. Acknowledge. It does feel like maybe it's the global era. Could be the global era. I mean, with Netflix and everything and the fact that like...

Got a pay-per-view in Australia, France and Canada already announced for this year. Wild. And Berlin. And Berlin, that's right. Yeah. Could be. I mean, yeah. I try not to contextualize what's going on now in a historical context as it's happening.

like just let it happen. Because I also feel like the ruthless aggression era was kind of named as it was happening. And I think that was to like soften the blow of the fact that the attitude era was over. Yeah. Because it was tough for all of us, right?

The attitude era was like so fun. And when you realize it's over, it's like, okay, we got to soften this blow and really like put a heavy hand down and say this is what this era is. I think right now we can just let this be, because it just keeps getting bigger

and keeps growing, and it's just becoming a monster. And I think it's going to take some years to look back and really contextualize, like, oh my God, what was that that we just saw? I love that we can sit here and appreciate it as it's happening. Because we've seen so much of it.

You and people like us, have seen it over the years can go, like, no, like we can recognize immediately. There's something very, special happening here. Yeah. And it's hard to take a step back and appreciate something as it's happening because just as humans in general, not just wrestling fans, but humans in general, we love living in the world

of nostalgia of like, oh, it's not as good as this. Yeah. Oh, number two of this movie is not as good as number one. We love doing that. And we also love looking ahead to, well, what does this mean? I love to just be able to sit back a little bit and go, let me just, let me just see. Yeah. Let me just appreciate this as it's happening.

And that's all the way down the car. And I'm not just talking about WW. It's in AEW and it's in TNA. I'm like, let me just see all of this. Let me just appreciate this as is happening. Right. Yeah, when TNA does a pay-per-view and the brand is back, I'm like, that rules. I was there.

Yeah, exactly. And you can, yeah, I mean, when Nick Nemith shows up and it's just this moment and you're like, that's awesome. You don't need to go, yeah, but are they going to be able to capitalize on it? What are we going to do from here? What is the difference in TNA and impact? I don't know. What do you feel right now?

This is cool. It's cool to see. Like, sting coming down from the rafters. That's awesome. Yeah. On his last dynamite, one more time sting comes down from the ceiling. Yeah. That rules.

Yeah. You know? And it's like, you're right. I mean, those are the moments where you're just like, that's the point of being a fan where you could just go like, that's awesome. And you know what else is cool? Two days later, the rock is going to be on Smackdown. And I know.

I got more amazing stuff just happening. We're getting hit with it multiple times a week. Nostalgia's a hell of a drug. It is. And I get that. And I get that a lot of what we're appreciating now, we love so much because there's a hint of nostalgia there. But the comparisons, like, I don't know if they're fair.

You know, like... No, you can't. It's apples to oranges. And I really like to... It's apples to zebras, as my wife would say. That's it. Well, she's a smart lady. She is.

She's a smart lady. But, like, yeah. Yeah, I liked, we were at the Cody documentary premiere. Yeah. And I got to talk to him right after. And, like, I was watching it going, man, it's so cool that this guy who grew up with his dad in the business, who grew up a fan. Like, he's a fan of wrestling. Gets to have this documentary made about him and Rick Flair and Hulk Hogan and The Undertaker and all these legends are talking about him in this glowing way.

and it was one of like there were a few answers that I that kind of stick with me and this was one of them when I was like how cool was that like because I'm just thinking oh man as a fan myself that must be so cool and Cody was like well I mean it's cool but also they should be talking like I'm we can't live in this nostalgia where those are the people at the top of the mountain and we're just down here it's like with all due respect I'm the top guy that now they should be talking about me like that and i'm like that's that's it wow that's the attitude that's the attitude to have because you're right they should be like those that's the way this business moves forward that the legends like the legends before them should be like i don't know about all these kids but man that undertaker has something man i don't know hogan he's got something he's moving it differently those guys should be looking at cody and being like yeah it's there i always love when you can, when someone is not humble. Like, I get the appearance of that.

Like, oh, man, I'm just doing my best job. But I love when someone can just step outside and, like, not be humble for a second and just speak realistically to what is, what they're actually living and experiencing. And I just think that it's so true. Like, Cody is one of the biggest stars right now. Yeah. And we can say that. But for him to say that.

Think about it. I mean, what did I tell you the moment was that made this era this era? it was Cody coming back. And, like, WW is selling out arena after arena. And part of that is because of Roman rains. And part of that is, are these smackdowns is because of the rock.

Part of that is because those people are bringing this general interest back. Part of that is because John Cena came back for, you know, a three-month chunk of time, which was huge and reinvigorated interest in the product. But day-to-day, who's headlining all those shows? It's Cody. And he's doing so much that I think goes unseen, too, like.

Correct. I think we see a 20-second clip of him signing autographs or signing the weight belts backstage or posing with fans. But he's doing that at every show. How about this one? You'll love this. I was in Stanford watching SmackDown, right? And we do Smackdown Lowdown after, right after Smackdown.

It's a half-hour show. What we watch is a truck feed of the show. So we're not watching on Fox. We're watching, I mean, it's the same. It's live, but it's, you know, whatever. We taped the whole show. and we came back into the room to just grab our stuff and go home. And on the truck feed, Cody was still around the ring signing things for everybody in the front row.

He's still there as the ring crew is just sitting there like, can we take this ring apart yet? I love that. But he's there like putting in the hours. And that's why it's one of the reasons why people are interested. I mean, when was the last time that you recall the good guys? guys got cheered, bad guys got booed, and adults and children were cheering for the same person. That's a great question. I mean, literally pre-attitude era. Maybe Hogan?

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. And that's not even, by the time, 92 rolled around, adults started booing Hogan. Yeah. So you'd have to go back to maybe 1990 as the last time that there was a baby face that adults and children equally universally cheered. and that's Cody. That's magic. It's amazing because he could easily go, well, I want to get back to my wife and kid.

And I want to get on my bus and just get to the next town. I want to rest up. I want to get to the gym. I want to get my meals in, whatever. But he's doing the most. Yes. And I don't know how much longer he can keep this pace up. But I love that he's doing it right now. Yeah. I mean, I don't think that he has any dreams of stopping anytime soon. He's 38?

Yeah, something like that, yeah. But when you look at it, and when they post the schedules, it's him and Seth. Him and Rollins are the ones that, like, when you go on Instagram and you see the graphics and they're like, here are the dates that I'm doing. It's like, you're like, that's one month. You're looking at this line of dates. Yeah. That's one month because that's who it is. I mean, Cody, and there's a lot of guys that are on, you know, a lot of shows.

When you talk about top guys that are on every show. Yeah. Seth, Cody. Yeah. And then on the other, you know, on the villain side. McIntyre, Shinske. Yeah. You know?

I love that your show has pivoted. Like it was very much like mine for a long time where it's like we're going to interview guests. But with wrestling being so hot now, where's the, where's the siren? Where is it? Right here.

By the way, people don't know. It's a button. This doesn't make the sound. If you hear me. People really listen. And they go like, doesn't the sound wake up your wife and kids? I go,

It's through the headphones. Like, it's not actually, wow, it's the magic of radio. You've done something so smart. Like, you're just, you're talking about the here and the now. I've always been so worried to talk about things that are happening now because I want my episodes to be evergreen-ish. Sure. You can, you know, if you can listen,

you can listen to this episode in six months or a year and it'll still make sense what we're talking about. When you're talking about something that just happened on SmackDown, you've got a very short window. You're kind of like the show that comes on after the, home teams NFL game. Right. You know, like,

oh, the Giants won, the Browns lost, whatever it happens to be. And when it hits, it hits. Yep. And when it doesn't, it doesn't. But it's like radio. I mean,

no problem. I'm doing another show in two days. But the difference between radio is, well, at least traditional radio, is it happens here and now. It's gone. That's gone forever. And that was actually one of the things

I loved about radio when I started my broadcasting career. Yeah. It's like, if you make a mistake, who cares? You've got your next talk break to move forward.

Yeah. Whereas the podcast, world, this will live on forever. It does live on forever. And, yeah, and comments, you know, people find old. Oh, yeah, and people will be like, remember when you said this thing? Like, remember when you said the rock would never turn heel? Yeah, I believed it that day.

Yeah. That's the day that I said it. And that's, people are, oh, the internet. Yeah, I'm not, like, this isn't the news. I'm not responsible for, I believed, when I'm doing, I believed it the day that I said it. That aged like milk, Sam. Cool, man. Well, luckily, you just comment on things.

there's no years and years of tape of you. Imagine what you were saying. If you're criticizing what I was saying back then, imagine what you were saying back then. It's exciting, though, and I'm sure those episodes do really well for you. It's fun. It's super fun. I love it because, I mean, I love it. It's a fun thing to do.

You know, coming home from my youngest was born on the same day as the rest of the world, Mania Press Conference. Wow. Yeah, it was the day he was born at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. And then I was at the hospital and everything, of course, with my wife and everything. And I was coming home to sleep here with the kids so that I woke up with them and everything and that everybody was comfortable.

But so there was this period of time where it's like, okay, like I'm not at the hospital with my wife. I'm home with the kids, but they're asleep. I got a lot on my mind about this press conference. Let me go downstairs. And ring the siren. With your hours old baby. With the hours old baby.

My wife's got that taken care of. But people love it. Like the standard podcast is fueling. Like the emergency podcast almost fuel the standard podcast. Like that's the vehicle, the standard podcast. But the emergency podcast have become the gasoline that you're putting in that vehicle. And who knows? You know, it's WrestleMania season.

So there's just something happening every minute. Who knows if that's something that continues on? But right now, I mean, I get such a kick out of the fact that, like, I can talk about this in absurd detail. Yeah. Like, I'm just sitting here for whatever it is, 25, 35 minutes, just breaking down a rock promo. Yeah. But what, like, gives me the biggest kick is that there are people that are like, oh, thank God.

Oh, yeah, I just, I like, I'd be like, you like that. And I get it because I do the same thing. Like, yeah. I watched the curse, the Nathan Fielder show on Showtime. It was brilliant. The ending just sat with me so hard. I was like, I got to go on YouTube and watch other people talk about this. And it's not because I don't have an opinion.

I need their opinion. It's just, it's like in the old day, you used to watch something live and then you call your friend. Yes. And you'd be on, like when you were a kid, you and I, you know, we grew up around the same time. You get your landline and you'd call your friend. Yeah. And you'd just be on the phone with your friend for hours. That's what this is now.

You go on YouTube and you find somebody who's voiced the. that you trust and you like, and you listen to them. I listen to other people on YouTube, and I'm like, this is so, like, I'm having fun doing what I'm doing. And in the background, homie's talking to me over here about this.

And the fact that people are into that, I just get such a kick out of it. I mean, I could do, I'll be doing emergency podcasts until people stop watching and listening to them. You can do them daily. I've been leaning into it a bit on my show. I've been doing these Ask CVV episodes,

so people write in with their questions. A lot of them are about like, what do you think about this storyline? or this character. And then there's a lot of questions about content creation or interviews. But I always lead with like, all right, elimination chambers this weekend.

Here's my predictions. Here's my thoughts on this person's promo or whatever. And those episodes do just as well as some of the huge guests that I've had over the last handful of months. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, people, it's just a, it's a fascinating time to unpack.

And there's also just so many directions that everything can go in. Podcasting has changed in a a lot. And I'll say it's changed and evolved a lot over the last four years. Like, I think that in March of 2020, when the world shut down, everybody who wanted to start a podcast now had the time to start a podcast. Right. And a lot of those podcasts are no longer around. No, they're not. The COVID time. Yeah, it was weird. I was creating content during the pandemic. Of course, we all were, right? But it's amazing how many new podcast started then. And then when the world slowly got back to normal, those kind of pod faded away.

That's a real term. Pod fade. Pod fade? Yeah, that's a real thing. I mean, honestly, I think it'll probably happen in wrestling, too. I think there are a lot of people. And I see YouTubers doing it more now than ever. They're looking at the trends because for YouTubers do this. That's the business. And they're like, oh, I'm going to do more wrestling content on my channel. And it's like, cool.

Yeah, we'll still be here. Yeah, we'll exactly. Cool. Like, I'll talk to you in May. When did you do your first wrestling interview? Okay, so my first wrestling interview that was like a wrestling interview. So, like, I was working for this radio show called Opie and A&A. Anthony, and it was like a kind of shockjock comedy show, and I was like a lowly intern slash associate producer, right?

Like one level above an intern. And I, like, they knew I was a big wrestling fan and everything, and so we'd have WWE guests come in. And one of the WWPR guys, who was a fan of the show, and I became really great friends with, it was WrestleMania 27 because the Rock was there. It might have been before that, actually. Atlanta? No, no, no, no, no. It was way before that, actually. It was WrestleMania 23. WrestleMania 23. He goes, are you going to the press conference? I go, it's not open to fans, so otherwise I'd love to. And he goes, right. I go, right. He goes, it's for the media. I go, yeah. He goes, which you are. I go, huh? You can go to the press conference. You work in media. I go, really? He goes, yeah, obviously. That's who goes. I go, oh, oh, okay. And I went to, I never even thought of it.

And once to the press conference. And so, like, I started going to stuff like that and getting content for the purpose of rebroadcasting on their radio show. Yeah, yeah. And then sometimes it'd be like, I don't know what I'm going to do here that fits into their radio show. Or I get a little bit for their radio show and also go, I just want to talk to these wrestlers about wrestling. Like, I'm just a fan. So, like, I did it. And I also started asking people, what's the haps?

And then I put it up, I put, I got a couple clips for them, but put up, it was probably at WrestleMania 24 press conference. It was the first time that I really did like, almost like a, like a medley of interviews that I put up on my YouTube channel, which back then, YouTube channels were really just like a, an unorganized toy box where you would just upload clips. You know what I mean? There was no rhyme reason, you remember. Just a dumping ground.

Right. Yeah. Right. Like, I kind of used it as like a virtual. like drive. Like, man, that's a big file to save on my computer. Do I really need this interview on my computer? Well, let's throw it up here and I'll always have it.

Right, right. You didn't realize. So, yeah, that was one of the early ones that I put up. And slowly but surely, an audience started to like find it. And it was very little. It was like me and Peter Rosenberg and that was it. Very little wrestling content going up on YouTube,

especially interviews. And I was like, oh, Like when I do this stuff, I can get clips for the radio show, but also put stuff on my YouTube channel where just a wrestling audience will find it. And then it was like, oh, there are wrestlers in town. I can interview this wrestler and just upload the whole interview onto my YouTube channel.

And it's just built and built and built from there. The only people doing wrestling interviews, and then we're going back 2010, 11, around then, was you, Peter Rosenberg, and me. and it's because we had the media background. I remember when you started doing it because I was like, yeah, he gets it. Because you started doing the same. I immediately I knew what you were doing because I saw the TV station logo on your mic.

I saw the suit on. I was like, yeah, he's doing the same thing, except like where I was getting in from the radio show and then just doing wrestling interviews, you were getting in from the TV gig. And then you're just like, well, what if I just talked to this guy about wrestling and put it on my YouTube channel? And that's it. Yeah, that's the way. You get them in the door because Raw is in town and they're promoting. And I'll put the clip on the news.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah. You get what you want, but also, let me get 15 minutes. Yeah. And it's funny how that was like, just having the access was like what got the foot in the door. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Now everybody's got the access. It's funny. Which is good, though. I love that. I like that more people have the opportunity to do it and that the digital landscape has kind of taken away the gatekeepers and stuff like that. I think it's a good thing.

I love it because it used to be, if you didn't work for CBS and, NBC, Fox, ABC, or something like that, you just didn't get in. Which is ridiculous, because there's a lot of talented people in this field that weren't, you know, that didn't have a day job working for a network. Like, that's not right. So I like that YouTube has become its own platform. Like, you don't have to go, like, well, this is the market, but also we're going to put it on YouTube. It's just like, no, I just have a YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's valuable. The best thing about YouTube is anybody can do it. But also, the worst thing about YouTube is anybody can do it. I like finding the channels of the second anybody can do it. Me too. And one of the things that I really love is seeing somebody that's like, okay, it's not all together. Like, you don't really have it yet.

It's not really rocking and rolling, but it's consistent. Like people who don't quit, I love them. And that is the key because there's a lot of people that fall into the, yeah, well, anybody can do it, that do it like three times. Right. And they go, well, that sucks. because I only got 47 views. It's like, could you imagine if we were sitting here right now,

47 people were watching? You would never stop. But they're like, we're not getting the Van Vleet numbers. Because they look at you too, and they'll go, oh, I'll just do what he's doing. I'll get the same numbers. Not realizing that like... Oh, my channel started in 2011.

Right, you're 15 years in the game. Started my broadcasting career in 2005. And that's the thing that nobody sees ever, right? Like, we always see just the finished product in social media in general. And you're not seeing like, if it's an actor, you're just seeing them holding the Oscar on stage. And you're not seeing all the failed auditions and the callbacks that they didn't get. You're not seeing that. You're just seeing the great performance and then the Oscar winning speech.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, but then you need to appreciate that this quote-unquote overnight success took 15 or 20 years. L.A. Knight's a perfect example. Right, exactly. And I think that people just want to go, well, he just showed up on the scene. Like, well, kind of, but not really. Right. Right, that's why I loved when they started finding all the old footage.

Not just the stuff he did and like impact and stuff like that, but like in the performance center training video with Triple H. In the commercial for this car insurance company in this. And I wish that, I think that that's, that is something that I think would put L.A. night over the top. If they humanized or if L.A. night humanized L.A. night a little bit more where there was an embrace of the fact that like, yeah, I wasn't supposed to be here. they said I was good enough for a TV commercial, not to be in a movie. They said I was good enough for the Triple H physical fitness video, not for SmackDown.

Yeah. But I did. And like really, like, embrace the fact that what you're seeing is 20 years of never stopping hard work. Yeah. And nobody gave him anything. Every single iota is earned.

And I think if you can really get that story across, there's even more to LA Knight than we've seen. And it hasn't even been teased, but I feel like him and Logan Paul's happening at WrestleMania. I feel like he lives. I don't think that'll happen at WrestleMania. You don't think so? No, not with Randy.

I mean, I think we had AJ and L.A. Night at WrestleMania, which will be great. Yeah, it'll be great. I originally thought we were going to get Logan Paul. I thought that was like a done deal. Yeah, no. And I worry because L.A. Knight had all of this momentum in L.A. Nightmania.

And, you know, Royal Rumble. he has a nice match but doesn't win. Elimination Chamber has a nice showing but doesn't win. I hope that he can keep chugging this along. Yeah, I mean, there's not a lot of room at the top, and it's getting very crowded. There is. It's getting very crowded.

And I love that about this era of wrestling because for a long time, we were complaining about like this is the main event they're going to give us, this is the storyline they're going to give us. Now we're sitting here in 2024, and there's so many great storylines that they can't fit them all in.

It's an embarrassment of riches. It's an embarrassment of riches. That's what it is. It really is. And it's incredible. Yeah. Let me hit you with a few here. What do you think is the best movie that features a wrestler?

Hmm. The best movie. I mean, Jingle All the Way is pretty good, and there's a wrestler in it. You know, big show showing up with Santa Claus. He's not necessarily the central character, but I do love Jingle all the way. Excellent. Life with Mikey is a great movie. What a deep cut.

Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

He is good. I mean, the wrestler is a very good movie, and Necro Butchers in it, as is the Blue Meaning. As is Ron Killings. Yes, hard truth is in it. Yes. But he wasn't Art Truth in it, right? He was Ron Killings.

He was in the indie, yeah, it was pre, it is in between time. That movie's fantastic. That was great. Yeah, I'm sure, hey, knock at the cabin was great. That was really good. Batiste is amazing. He has some real depth to his performance there.

Yeah. What's the best rock movie? The best rock movie, man. I mean, there's some... First of all, I love Fast and Furious. So, any of the... Fast Five. Fast five, reinvigorated.

You know what? Fast five might be it, because I was going to say San Andreas. I love San Andreas. I love CNN. I love, like, hit me with all of it. Like, go way over the top. I love San Andreas. But Fast Five was so good

because I think it reinvented. I think that's the movie where the rock went from like, oh, I'm trying to fit this Hollywood mold to no, no, no, no, no. What if we made Hollywood fit the rock? And that was the click that turned him into the biggest movie star in the world. And it also was what that franchise needed. Fast and the Furious was on shaky ground.

You know, Tokyo drifted with Tokyo drifted. They tried to reinvent the wheel with fast end. and Furious instead of the Fast and Furious. That was the fourth one. Fast Five was when they were like, what if they were just like insane superheroes doing stuff that could never ever happen, but it looked cool to watch?

All right, let's try it and let's bring The Rock in, and you've got one of the best action movies ever. That movie made The Rock what he is now. Absolutely. And he made Fast Fierious what it is now. Fast Five rules. Fast Five is the answer. What an answer.

I mean, I think that if you're going to go to just pure script, storyline performance, it's got to be like that, that the early era, like I think the rundown's just fantastic. You know what pain and gain is really good. Painting Gain is very,

rundown and walking tall is like such a great era. Walking tall probably. That's my pick. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but I have a prejudice against slim down rock. I do not like when the rock slimmed down. I understand. At all.

I like when the rock, I love, that's why I love pain and gain. Because pain and gain, he got massive to be a bodybuilder. And then he just never lost the weight. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you hear, like, the stories about, like, De Niro and Christian Bale who, like,

well, I gained a whole bunch of weight for this role and then lost a weight for this role and did this for that role. Rock, like, gained insane amounts of muscle for that role. And then was like, wait, what if we just leave it? And just be that guy. And I love that guy. When you think of, like, and I think a lot of people forget, like, the movies he was making in 0, 0,8, 2009, 2010. And then the movies he made when. and it was Fast and Furious,

G.I. Joe, too, pain and gain, and then, like, everything changed from there. But, like, it was Race to Witch Mountain, and it was the game plan and tooth fairy. And there's an article written about this, how he changed his management. Yeah. He changed his agent because his agent was like,

you got to be more Hollywood. That's where he lost his weight. Like, you can't be the rock. You can't be that wrestling guy because this is Hollywood. And then you see a bunch of movies where he wasn't, right? And that was that whole string of movies there. Faster, I think, was in there as well. and he was like, I'm not just, I'm not happy with the movies I'm doing.

And he went and found new representation. They were like, you're the rock. Be the rock. You're this generation's Arnold Schwarzenegger. Like, get as big as you can be. And that's what we've seen now is like this reinvention of who he is. Yeah. And it works.

It works in a big way. Yeah, when you can marry that brand between like wrestling and Hollywood, nobody's done it like that. Yeah. Where it's just like, wherever he is, he's the rock. and the industries revolve around that. Although we've been seeing recently that there is a distinct difference

between Dwayne Johnson and The Rock. I love The Rock. It's hard to not love the Rock. I mean, Dway Johnson seems like great guy. I love The Rock. Is The Rock going to like make Raw or Smackdown become TV 14 again? Well, he's not going to give much of a choice.

I mean, he's not even following FCC guidelines on network. Seriously. And they kept cutting to Black on Smackdown. Yeah. Partly because what are you saying? And then also because of the die-rocky-dye-dye- I guess so. I guess so.

That's on the, yeah. Yeah, it is interesting because, like, the fans are getting more into it, but you see it on NXT a lot, too. Like, you got to stop fans. Like, you guys got to stop cursing. Not because it's, you know, I have some moral obligation, obligation to tell you not to do it, but because I'm tired of watching and hearing the sound cut out.

Yeah. Stop cursing. I want to watch a show. So what did we do? Like, the Rock's, when, like, that's... Well, the Rock's going to do whatever the Rock's going to do. That's what I'm saying. Like, the Rock saying F. Cody's story?

So good. So good. Right. No, yeah, I have to, I have to, I, yeah, I have to retell the Rocks promos to my son. I can't let them watch them. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, but it's what makes it good. But this, like, this is going to go back to like late 90s where you have kids running around the playground saying suck it.

Yeah, I was one of them. Me too. Yeah. I turned out great. So. Well. Well. Maybe that's the way to go.

No, I don't know. I mean, look, I think that it's a good juxtaposition. Because what's interesting is in the attitude era, you had a guy like Kurt Engel come out, you know, just integrity. All about integrity. It made him the biggest heel in the business. Drink your milk, you know, be polite. Boo, we hate you.

We've got the rock who's cursing up a blue streak. And we're all having fun, but he's clearly a heel. And going back to Cody Rhodes. He's as white meat as you're going to get. Like he is a cartoon character superhero. Like he is that guy. He's Superman. Actually, John Cena is probably Superman.

He might be Batman because there's a little edge to him. But he's still like safe for the kids and we love him for it. That's what makes this unique. There's some weird like Crossroads. No pun intended. I like it though that we found. I heard on your podcast recently you were like Cody Rhodes is Batman. Yes.

Then we've got. Seth Rollins is then his Joker. Yes. You had a whole, a whole, like a whole line of people. Yeah, that's what,

like, for me, John Cena is Superman. Because, like, he is, I mean, and then,

and he, I mean, he self-admitted, like he said that. Yeah. In a recent interview. But take the good with the bat on that.

Like, yeah. We love Superman, but also, he's kind of annoying, because he never loses. And he sets, uh,

that, like, there's no flaw. There's like, with Superman, it's like you can't aspire to be like Superman. You'll never be that good. He literally comes from another planet. You can't be that good. So as much as you'll cheer for him because Superman's a baby face, there's also like you won't, there's always going to be that connection that's not quite as strong.

Yeah. Batman fights on the side of good, kicks ass, is awesome, but is also a flawed person. and became a superhero because he was in the darkest point in his life. That to me is Cody. And then you go to the arch rivals. Who's Lex Luthor to John Cena's Superman, I think Randy Orton, you know, that's that rivalry that will never be disconnected. They'll always be intertwined. For Cody Rhodes, who, if he's Batman, who's the Joker, there's some people who think, like, Roman Reins is the ultimate rival to Cody Rhodes. It's not true.

Like, the story was never even about Roman Raines. It was just about the title. The Joker, Seth. Like, Seth and Cody, to me, is that rivalry. They'll always have other rivalries. Maybe they'll be partners here, maybe they're. But they're always going to be intertwined as rivals. People seem to forget that finishing the story is not beating Roman Reins at

WrestleMania. That's what they, people seem to think that that's the story. The story is winning the championship that his father never won. Right. That's it. Right. It's not about beating a specific opponent at a specific PLE. It's just about winning the championship.

Right. Now, there is, I mean, it's more personal now because Roman beat him and is the one who stopped him from finishing. But that's still not the story. But that's not the story. And you're talking about Batman reminding me of that line in Justice League. What's your superpower? I'm rich. Like, yeah, no, I guess that is your superpowers.

You got good ninja skills, too. Yeah, you can fight pretty well. Yeah. Mainly because you're rich. You can afford lessons. Yeah. Best and worst WrestleMania.

The worst WrestleMania is 27. Wow. By a mile. I'll give you my pick after. Yeah, worse.

I hate that WrestleMania. There's like, I mean, there are little, like, Triple H versus Undertaker, obviously great.

But as a WrestleMania, the ending of that WrestleMania, John Seen and the Miz, both looking like fools, the rock is the host, getting the last moment on the show.

Terrible for everything. Awful. I hate that WrestleMania. I went to that WrestleMania with a friend of mine who doesn't watch wrestling. And he goes, Wait, did The Rock win?

Exactly. And I go, no, no, the Rock wasn't even the match. What's, why is he? Exactly. Hate that WrestleMania. Hate it. And I don't hate any WrestleMania's. Hate WrestleMania 27.

And the best WrestleMania, you know, I gave it over a year because I didn't want recency bias to affect it. But I can make a real strong argument for WrestleMania 38. WrestleMania 38 was incredible. 39 was good too, and there have been other great wrestlmanias and great moments at WrestleMania. WrestleMania 17 is obviously great.

WrestleMania 18 is great. The 38, you've got the return of Cody, Stone Cold, wrestling again. We saw that Logan Paul was not just a celebrity wrestler. Yes. And as I said, in the beginning of this conversation, it's the launching point of this era. You can trace.

everything back to that, WrestleMania. It is the beginning. It's Roman Rain's bloodline story, really becoming this reign of terror where it's holding everything hostage. It's everything. Yeah, so I think right now, as you ask me today,

because anybody's going back a year, two years, three years, WrestleMania 27 is that's never going to change. That's the worst. It sucks. But WrestleMania 38 is probably my favorite today. It's hard to argue against that. I'll give you my worst,

WrestleMania 36, because there's really nothing. from the pandemic era that you would ever go back and want to rewatch. And I get that the Firefight Fun House match was great. So good. A wonderful pivot at the absolute last minute because John Cena was telling me they had a full plan for what they were going to do and like have an actual match. But nobody wants to watch anything from like March until like really the rest of 2020.

Like nobody wants to go back and go, ooh, like I love that Drew won the title. But I hate that it was in front of nobody. And he beat two guys. I hate that it was in front of nobody. In front of nobody. You know, I can't. Like hearing the feet screeching, like when you hear the feet screeching, what am I trying to say? Squeaking.

On a basketball court when you're watching a game. Yeah. When you hear them thumping in the ring with nothing else. The weird echo of the commentators, because you can hear them on the mic, but also in the room. Before they were piping in the fan noise, before they had the fans on the screen, which I still thought was very weird. And they were even doing hard cam to nothing. is before they hit the hard cam on the entryway. Let's show everybody that there's no one here.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's, look, and I get it, they had a few days to pivot and figure that out. And that's no fault of the WWEs. But no one is going back to anything during the pandemic era of wrestling going, can't wait to rewatch that thing. And it's really interesting because that,

WrestleMania 36 could have been the greatest WrestleMania of all time when you think about it. I mean, Drew was never hotter going into that WrestleMania. Everybody was so ready for Drew to have his heroic moment. Edge versus Randy, last man standing would have been incredible. That was the greatest match ever. No, no, no, no.

The greatest wrestling match ever was the paper. That was backlash. That was WrestleMania backlash. And it was the greatest wrestling match ever. By the way, I have a whole thing about that. That's certainly what they called it. I have a whole thing about it. We could talk about it if you want.

But that was the last man standing, which would have been great. it was John Cena versus Bray, obviously Kevin Owens versus Seth and we would have had the finale of the Otis

Ziegler Mandy story and that's another thing that people forget like if Otis and Mandy Rose had made out in front of a stadium full of people it would have been maybe saved for Drew

winning the title maybe not the biggest pop of WrestleMania. It would have been a four-f, Otis and Mandy would have gotten a forever WrestleMania moment had that happened. That on paper, if you put that in a stadium based on how good the 2020 Royal Rumble was,

36 would have been one of the best. And it's almost like we needed to have that whole era with no fans there to appreciate how amazing it was when everything came back and we had full arenas, not like, I'm sure you were there too. Russellmania 37, sitting next to cardboard cutouts

was a little strange. I was not at 37. Oh, it was very strange because I was with my friends that I went with, but I was surrounded by cardboard cutouts. Yeah. Which looked great on the wide shot. But I think it's just weird. It's almost like, it's almost like John Cena going away. Like you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

And maybe that's one of the reasons why 38 is so good. Yeah. It's also a reason that like I did a whole thing about like why CM Punk debuting in AEW was so. such a moment. And one of the biggest thing that's not talked about with that is that

that was one of the first full arena shows after the pandemic. And you can see that. People are still wearing masks in the crowd. Not wearing them very well, but they're wearing masks

in the crowd. Chin diapers. But it was almost like we had all of this pent-up like aggression and anger and excitement that we wanted to get out and here we are now and the show starts

and it's cult of personality. It's like, ah! I want to get all this out. Yeah, and we're getting the thing that we want. Yes. And like, had that happened a year before, obviously, it would not have been received the same way. He made the very right move, not debuting in the pandemic.

And even if it had happened a year later, it still would have been big. But there was something about, like, coming right out of the pandemic. The world finally feels normal again. We're back. We're back. Yes. Yeah. And I go with, I think 17's the best.

Yeah, I mean, it's a... Rock Hogan, TLC2, or Rock Austin, TLC2. Except the finish of that, Rock Austin match is not good. Nobody thinks about the finish. Austin turned to you. Everybody forgets that. They do. They just think about my way, the build-up video.

The build-up video is so good. The aesthetics of that WrestleMania is so good, like, in the stadium and everything. That's the height of the attitude era. Yeah, that's a great WrestleMania. But I'm not going to let anybody forget. You know, you talk about people romantic. the attitude era. Do not forget that Stone Cole, Steve Austin,

turned to heel at the end of WrestleMania 17. Wrestling fans have such selective memories. Because for everything that was great in the attitude era, and I love the attitude era. There were also a lot of things where you went, Beaver Cleavage? I mean, Naked Midian? Al Snow ate his own dog in the attitude era.

Which was great. I love Al Snow. And this is, yeah. I mean, if anybody questions my love for Al Snow. Wow. That looks very authentic. Yeah. This was actually when he was in ECW. It wasn't one of his heads, obviously. But this is the level of fan. When I was, I don't know how old I would have been, but whatever.

I was watching ECW, so I was a teenager. And my mom was like, well, what do you want for your birthday? I was like, I want a mannequin head. I want a head. I want head. Like I told my mom, I want head for my birthday. What does everybody want? Yeah, yeah, yeah, from their mom. So she literally like went to a beauty supply store. Oh my gosh.

And she knew just from, you know, she's not a fan, but she is aware of what I'm watching. And she knew what she was like, oh my God, that looks just like Al's nose. And she went into the beauty supply store and she gave it, she gave it to me for my birthday. And it is to this day one of my favorite birthday gifts. I added the help me mark her. Brilliant. But now, yeah, now it sits in the studio. I love Al.

It helps me focus the cameras now. One-man operation. It's for all of these reasons that I think that when it's all said and done, because it's so hard when you're in it to not have recency bias, it's also hard when you're in it to not have that nostalgic bias. Sure. When it's all said and done, when we have this conversation 15 years from now, that's one of the reasons why I think this era could possibly be bigger than the attitude era. Storytelling-wise, it's better. Yes. The stories are better now than they were in the attitude era.

I mean, the attitude era is funner in the sense that, like, you can bring up stories from the attitude era and just start laughing. Oh, yeah. Like, we did the busted open live show. And, like, there's no way we could have sat there with Mark Henry and not bring up the fact that he fathered a hand. Like, that's hilarious. Yeah. It's also ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

Yeah. You know what I mean? But I don't think there's anything that's happening now that is on the level of beaver cleavage. No. Naked Midian. No. Valvinus getting his pee cut off.

Did happen. No, no, there isn't. Was Katie Vic during the attitude era? I would call that post-aditude era. They were, look, they were trying to figure it out. You know what the line was the worst part about that one was? That Triple H came out at the end of that raw and was just like,

Kane, I know about your secret. You're a murderer. And then the show goes off the air and you're like, what? But it does let you know AAA, based on the show that we're watching now, I'm going to guess Triple H was an actor, but did not write that.

Based on what we see today, I'm going to guess that that did not come from Triple H's brain. And then the necrophilia. There was a lot. There was a lot. I guess that wasn't really the attitude era. Post-attitude era. Like, woof.

Oof, is right. And I don't think we're getting that kind of like, like, again, going back to what we were talking about, I appreciate that whoever, is writing the shows right now respects that we're not dumb. Well, they're telling good stories. And I mean, you know, you could make a comparison to why did NXT Black and Gold get so hot? Why did that takeover era get so hot?

There was that two-year period where every main roster, like all of the big five paper views that had a takeover attached to it. What was everybody talking about on Sunday? You see takeover last night? You see takeover last night? And part of that was because the wrestling was. was just off the charts. But another part of it was because, I mean, look at the Gargano Champa story.

It was a literal epic being told. Yeah. And I still think that's an underrated story. And I think there's still more to be told. Oh, yeah. Oh, can you, bro, can you imagine if that comes to, and who's to say won't come to the main roster? Oh, I mean, it's on the main roster.

As DIY, but that split, we could just... It'll happen. Run it back. Run it back. It's bound to happen. But, like, it's little things, too. It's like knowing how to make the most out of stuff. When you've got Our Truth and you sit there and you go, okay, people love this.

This is working. People have loved it for a long time. Nobody's been able to maintain that level of comedic, ridiculous character as long as he has. It's remarkable. But now they go, how can we take this all the way? How far can we go with this and really optimize the support it's getting in terms of of fan response, in terms of viewers, and in terms of money. Like, as a business, how do we make the most of this?

Well, what if we take the Judgment Day, which is a main event TV act? Yeah. And we just go all the way with it. We do the T-shirts. We have multiple segments a week on it. We put videos out. Let's just keep it going. And you just watch it get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger every week.

To the point where, like, he is wrestling now with Regeneration X. But like, truth doesn't even have to wrestle He's one of the biggest stars in the company And he can do this for 20 more years. He better. I like that WWE was trying to tell us he's been in WWE since 2002.

It's like, well, well, I don't think so. He grew up watching John Cena. And he didn't go to TNA? No, I've been here the whole time. He's been here the whole time. Sorry, I don't know what you're talking about. I feel like we could talk all day.

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. We didn't do this last time. so I can't wait to do it now. I end every episode asking, what are three things you're grateful for? So not Sam. What are three things you're grateful for?

I'm grateful for my family, my incredibly supportive family, whether it's my wife, my three kids, the fact that I still have both my parents that are, I mean, that is the number one. I'm thankful for my health, you know,

and the fact that I'm able to maintain this absurd schedule and live out all these little aspects of my dreams that are unbelievable. And I'm thankful for my tribal chief, Roman Reigns. That's really the third thing I'm grateful for is my tribal chief. So it's, yeah, yeah, it's my family, my health,

and my tribal chief, Roman Reigns. Do you think this is an L that the Rock's putting up or a gun? Everyone keeps calling it an L. Why is it not a gun? What is the possibility that the Rock just did it by accident? Well, then he didn't. do it the next week by accident. But then he, because he did it and he went like this.

Yeah, he was like, that's what I'm saying. People are like, oh, he slowly pulled the trigger. Or he realized his thumb was out again. Like, that's also a possibility, right? There's a very quick, it's a still frame now, but of Paul Heyman looking over at the rock, like, like, he's either looking at him like. Or is he looking at Roman Raines for interrupting the rock?

That's the other thing. People are like, oh, look at the body language here. I'm like, but is that a camera angle? Yeah. Oh, look, Roman's pointing at, or Rock's pointing at Roman. And I'm like, yeah, but that's a diagonal angle. He could be pointing into the audience. What I will say to all of this is this would be like trying to dissect a movie when you're halfway through. That's wait.

That's right. We've all been with that person who's in the theater going, oh, why do you think he did that? And you're like, wait. We're going to find out. We'll talk when we leave the movie. We paid for the ticket. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's the message to leave it on. Let's talk when we leave the movie. Let's talk when we leave the movie. Thank you, sir. Thank you, ma'am. Again, a big thank you to Sam

for welcoming me into the Not Sam Studios, which we converted to the Insight Studios there with my logo in the background. Go check out Sam's podcast called Not Sam Wrestling on YouTube. And of course, wherever you're listening to this podcast right now, I just love the way he can meticulously break down a subject. Like, I brought up WrestleMania 17. He's like, yeah, no, WrestleMania 17 was good.

Rock, Austin was good. But, you know, Austin turning heel and Deborah. That's really something that not a lot of people talk about. I'm like, oh, man, you nailed it. I'd also love to hear your thoughts on what this new era is going to be called. Is this the bloodline era? Is this the global era? Is this the not PG anymore era?

Era? I don't know. You tell me. Tag us on social media. snap a screenshot. He's at Not Sam. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And I always end these episodes with a quote. And I know they don't speak to everybody, but I know that they specifically speak to certain people. And I always love when someone shoots me a message or an email and they say, I'm so glad that you shared that quote on that episode, whichever one it happens to be.

This one's from Abraham Lincoln. You cannot escape the responsibility of tomorrow by evading it today. Be great. Be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. We've got an Ask CVV tomorrow. Send those questions in using the hashtag Ask CVV. We'll see you tomorrow. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987.

Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.