Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Cody Rhodes On Leaving AEW For WWE, Meeting With Vince, WrestleMania 39 Loss To Roman Reigns

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

WWE Superstar Cody Rhodes sits down with Chris Van Vliet at the premiere of "American Nightmare: Becoming Cody Rhodes" in Atlanta, GA. He talks about his decision to leave AEW and go back to WWE, wrestling Seth Rollins with a torn pec at HIAC, how the meeting with Vince McMahon went before he re-signed with WWE, how the "WOAH" in his entrance caught on, the origins of "Finish the story", the biggest things that have changed in WWE since he left in 2016, his new documentary which debuts on Peacock on July 31 and much more!  Use the code CVV to get a 50% welcome bonus at http://mybookie.ag Quote I'm thinking about: "All great changes are preceded by chaos" - Deepak Chopra For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are good. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blin. We got a good one here today. Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Vleet. So good to see you here. This interview has been a long time coming. It's been four years since the last time I sat down with Cody Rhodes.

It was May of 2019. It was three days before AEW's very first show, double or nothing. We did that interview in Miami. of course the show was in Las Vegas. A lot has changed since then. Of course, the biggest being the three letters that he works for, it was AEW at the time.

Now it's WWE. And we did this interview in person in Atlanta. I flew there for the premiere of Cody's new documentary called American Nightmare Becoming Cody Rhodes. It comes out on Peacock on July 31st, and it's fantastic. It's so good. Gives you the full scope of who Cody is

and his whole story here, beginning with growing up the son of the late, great American dream, Dusty Rhodes, becoming a state champion in amateur wrestling. And then I think a part of his story, which a lot of people don't focus on or maybe don't even know about, he moved to Hollywood to focus on becoming an actor. That didn't work out. And then he moved home and then got into the family business, if you will, of wrestling. That led to him signing with WWE and OVW. will is OVW first, then he made his debut in WWE,

Star Dust, leaving WWE, starting this new company. He keeps calling it the alternative company in the documentary, but it really dives into like starting AEW, his decision to leave AEW and then to go back home, as he calls it, to WWE, his debut at WrestleMania 38 in Dallas, the torn peck wrestling through that in an immense amount of pain for Helen Assel. the return at the Royal Rumble, winning that,

and then trying to finish the story at WrestleMania 39. It's so good. So when this comes out on July 31st on Peacock, go check this out. And if you enjoy this episode, please share it with a friend

and snap a screenshot and tag us, let us know what you enjoyed about this. Cody is just at Cody Rhodes on Twitter. On Instagram, he's at American Nightmare, Cody. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and we dive into all

kinds of stuff during this conversation. There was a lot to catch up on here. So, please enjoy this conversation with Cody Rhodes. Well, it's awfully good to see you, sir. It's very good to see you. I don't know why I got stuck in it, maybe because you were talking. I'm stuck in a locked in. It's okay. You can stare at the camera camera. I actually was telling, and again, this is a bit of a preamble, but feel, I mean, we're in it now. We're doing. I was telling my publicist, Gina, who's on the other side of the camera, how much you've done since the last time we talked. Oh, wow.

Because it's everyone's journey. When you find someone who's a hard worker who's going to get there no matter what, there's a bond, there's a sense of it. Even if it's a different place, different time, you find somebody, you literally, I saw you talking to the Barbie people the other day, always talking.

You get Dwayne interviews, nobody's getting access to Dwayne. You're doing impressions with carrying cross. That's a good guy, by the way. He's a great guy. Yeah, what a Jesse Ventura impression. His Jesse Ventura is spot on. I feel like if the carrying cross aspect of this doesn't work out,

which I'm fairly sure it's going to, and he's going to be just fine because he's awesome. But I feel like you could just make that your bit. That could be a skimmer. Yeah, you could be like Tony Ventura. And just then force Jesse to come out and be like, this is not my kid. It's not.

You could make a whole bit out of it. That's bringing Jesse back. Yeah, his Ventura is impressive. A lot's changed since the last time I saw you. It was four years ago. What has changed? I lost my phone in a hotel room, right? That was the interview, yeah.

And we were talking about AEW, and we were in Miami. That's right. And was I at the NFL owners meeting? You were. Yes, because that makes sense. That makes sense. I do really appreciate that Tony took me to multiple NFL events, only because one time I got on the elevator with Emmett Smith,

and he asked me, is this where we go to the bus? Is the bus at two? He asked me like, you were a player. Like I was part of it. And I remember going, I remember thinking like, should I tell him? No, I'm not, I'm just at the hotel. I'm not. And instead I go, yep, I literally just, I didn't want to ruin it.

Like, he's, he's going to walk out there and find out. There's going to be plenty of, like, the red coats and the gold coats. They'll figure it out. But yeah. Emmett asked me, does the bus leave it too. Yep. Yeah, it does. I appreciate my NFL time just because I love the NFL.

And to see these owners and this crazy just whirl. I remember like Brandy got a big hug from Roger Goodell talking about Michigan. Yeah. Yeah. There's another lifetime, huh? Seriously. But that's what I was at that hotel for. And that's why.

Which, you know, brings us all to this. Like, I didn't think I'd be sitting down with you in a WWE situation. No. After that. I think I pay-piled you for some AEW work, too. You did. PayPal or was a binmo? You PayPaled me, and I was like, wow, Cody Runnels sent me some money.

Yeah, that's how professional I was. PayPal. pal. We got it done, though. Yeah, I mean, when you look at the doc, it's wild to think, at the time, no clue.

But now looking back at it, it's like there was no other way. It's very odd, and I'm not a big story of destiny type, but man, I should be, because this has been one, and I've just been lucky to ride it, for sure. Everyone talks about the changes

that you've made since you left WWE in 2016, But I'm curious, what's changed about WWE now that you're back? Well, the schedule at WWB, like first out of the gaze, when you think of returning to WB, you think of what that schedule can be. It's very daunting because it's, they're trying to cover everywhere on the map and they're wherever the TV goes, W.W.E goes. The schedule has been lessened where you get a, there's a healthier schedule. I mean, this is, I'm literally thinking of all the things that are different. The live events are branded now, you know, Saturday night.

main events, Sunday Stunner, the VIP element that's around the ring. I don't know if people realize this who only see Roller Smackdown. At the live events, this VIP service that they offer is just the best bang for your buck. It's so they've figured it out. They have figured it out. His name's Billy who runs that. And just it's one of my favorite things about the live events. But the main thing and the far more important thing this change is the people who run it

the same. It's the same who run it, but they now run it, and it's a bunch of grown men and women now in a sense of the actual talent. Seth Rallons is not a child. He's not Tyler Black coming from Ring of Honor anymore. He's a grown man who knows the psychology of a crowd, how he can move them, how he can not, and that's across the board. Jay Uso is a completely different animal. Sammy Zane, just one of the, and like a true artist, Kevin Owens, having experienced the ebbs and flows of it all. And that creates the environment we're in and the environment we're in is the business of it has been so good. Sell out, sell out, sell out. They're not random. They're, they're, I don't take them for granted. You don't want them to, at any moment they could end, but they're because you have an experience

group of guys and girls. And that's been the biggest difference. When I was there the first time, I was a kid. And I was blossoming into what it's like to be, you know, in your 30s professional wrestler who has experience working with some of the top names. But still, it's no substitute for what we have now. There's no substitute for that experience. And that's what you see with these shows. And I think that's one of the leading factors, obviously Roman.

But that's a leading factor into, huh, how is this business? Like, they're just everywhere they go is the transaction is through the roof. and that's why. One of the biggest things that came out of the trailer for becoming Cody Rhodes was Kevin Owens going, Vince flew to him,

very polarizing line. Very polarizing, right? What was like the first thing Vince said to you? That's a good question. I think he laughed. Like he has that like, I think he laughed

because I kind of snuck in. Like I leaned over him. I think he kind of laughed. But I was, I remember, going in to talk to him, I wasn't afraid of anything, and I was overcompensating almost.

I was very adamant of like, I'm not, and I've used the Bernie Mac reference a bunch, but he walks out and the crowd's kind of booing him, he tells him he's not scared of them. That's really where I was at. It's like, we're good. I'm not scared to anything here, let's talk.

And I was almost overcompensating because both Vince and Bruce were so welcoming, so, this is the term I can use, sweet and so positive about what I had done, the fact that they knew what I had done, and actually were citing different things. Like, yeah, I saw this. I saw this. Couldn't believe it. It was very self-affirming. And it just went for like that type of happy go lucky where we're talking about I had, you know, Liberty was a year old or maybe not even at that time. And he's

talking to me about what it's like to be a, you know, a dad for a daughter and how special it is. It was just beautiful. And then like in the last 20 seconds of the meeting, it's like, wow, Seth Rallons at WrestleMania. You know, what do you want? It just, that's where the only business came up. And it was so, I told, I told Brandy, I would say this, but I, I was adamant about saying, I, please don't do one of those.

Hey, this is the deal. If you leave, it's off the table. Don't do one of those. I have to leave and think about it. I have to. And even in your mind, you're like, yep, I think we're going to do that. Even your mind, I have to leave to think about. it and take some time because man we had made such massive decisions and I'm kind of a career left turn guy with oh no way would he do this. Oh okay he went and did that oh no way would he do this so this one was uh going to be it something similar but really a special special didn't feel like a meeting

until maybe the last 30 seconds I was there in Dallas when you returned and the big question was is he going to return with kingdom as his entrance thing oh and what's so interesting now is like you return with kingdom, but now the woe is such a big part of your end. Crazy. Who worked that in? Because it's very theatrical now with you like, you know, putting your arms out for it. I made a video. I said, it took six years for the woe to catch on. So, you know, the woe had been in different versions of downstate music for me. Yeah, smoking mirrors. Yeah, the woe had been present. But never part of the presentation. So I think what really you'd have to say Kevin Dunn because Kevin, he looked at an AEW entrance of mine. And he, I said,

it has to be this. This is what it had. This is what they, not, I'm not, you know, calling any shots, but this is what I, to be fair, this is what I would like. This is representative of who I am. And he was of the thought, great, we are just going to make it a little bit better. We're just going to make it a little bit better. And we tried some entrances that the world never saw, just different things during the day. We could do this, doing that. And he was, He set it up where it was most conducive for Monday Night Raw, the way the staging is on Monday Night Raw to do that and not have to build the Cody Vader every day at 3 o'clock in the afternoon.

Maybe save it for a pay-per-view, like a WrestleMania, which we did. But he'd have to be to blame for the woes because he loves the idea of singing, loves it. And you can hear him calling for it. I want to see people singing. You can hear it. And that's just never anything that I thought about. But I can say one of the most important things, the logo I knew wasn't going to change

because I got the tattoo and that. What do Vince think of the tattoo? He, again, laughed. But that was one moment where I said he had mentioned there's all kinds of designs we could do, and I told them, well, that one, we're pretty locked in on. And the one thing I was really clear about,

of all things, the music has to say the same. And the reason the music had to say the same was the music wasn't just at AEW. The music was at Ring of Honor, New Japan, every independent I could possibly go to all over the world, that was the music, including the line that I recorded on my IMac in my living room. Gosh, knows when the wrestling is more than one royal family. For sure, they were going to take that out. For sure, no way. Somehow, some way we'll get there and it will say sports entertainment. Like, we'll be dubbed over the wrestling, but no, they kept it and let it be. And there was a version of my song, if I can find it, I'll send it to you. There was a version of my song that was different as an option. And I just thought, I think the audience would be really mad. Kingdom is a, I'll follow you to the end.

Can't, we can't discredit that. Yeah. We have to, we have to have it. So that was probably the most important piece of, okay, we're going to bring the nightmare brand as it is. The most important piece is that that song. I didn't know it, but I was fighting for it. Okay, so we know it's going to be Cody Rhodes versus Brock Leicester at SummerSlam.

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Well, if you're like so sure about it, why not place a bet on it? And when you sign up at mybooky.orgie.g and you use my promo code, which is CVV, you'll get a 50% welcome bonus on your first deposit. So if you've got, say, $100 in there, well, now you've got $150 to bet on SummerSlam or really anything else that they have there. So it's my bookie.orgy.org and use that promo code CVV for a 50%. Send welcome bonus on your first deposit. After you tore your peck,

but you're still going to have the match at Helena Selle with Seth, what does the conversation with Seth look like? Does he go, dude, I'm not doing this. Are you crazy? I feel like, oh man, I feel like because Seth and I's rivalry is true and real,

I don't want to tell you how unbelievable. It's fair. It's fair to say. Seth Seth is I can't even begin to tell you how good

Seth Rollins is as a wrestler psychologist in the ring and without getting too far Seth made a decision that day that he made

it was his decision to make that will forever be something I am grateful for Seth and I are not friends it doesn't look like we're heading towards friendship there have been some flirtation with it. Don't think it's going to happen, though.

All that aside, if I ever write a book one day, a whole chapter will be about how good that guy is, how he's super valued at WWE, and he's still undervalued, in my opinion. And having Monday nights with him and I in a nice competitive who's the guy without ever having to be in the ring with each other, I couldn't ask for a better sparring partner in that sense.

I don't want to wrestle Seth ever again. But that day he made a decision that was very important. And if you get him, ask him, because I still don't want to say anything his things about him. Everybody knows who your father is, but when that was worked into the WrestleMania 39 storyline, were you okay with Dusty being a central part of that? Yeah, I was okay. I was definitely okay with it.

I got to the point where at the end of my run with AEW and the beginning of my run with WW, where I was really big on leaning in. like I've been leaning out for so long. I've been leaning out like, okay, they're starting to boo here and you're kind of split. Oh, let's lean into it.

Let's, let's, let's like stir it up. And when I came back, and the story was a real story, that is actually what I talked to Vincent and Bruce about in that meeting was, hey, here's the WWWF title.

I have it. Dan Lamber gave it to me. This is, there's a whole, this whole reason I wanted to be in the business, this physical piece of, you know, this thing right here,

this belt, this championship belt. So I was fine with leaning in because it feels like it's now or never in a sense. It's now or never. There's things you have to earn. And when you're someone's kid and your second generation and third generation, you have them all at your disposal from the beginning. But there's a difference from when you use them at the beginning and when you've earned them. And I felt like I had earned them.

And I remember Stephanie McMahon said this. She said, use everything. Use everything you have. and there couldn't be a more appropriate time to use everything. Oh, WrestleMania, the main event, essentially getting elected president is getting that match. The final match, like, use it all. Use everything you have and leave no stone unturned,

and she was right. Was there any version, a really version of WrestleMania 39, where you were walking out with the championship? One thing that's been really very real and in front of your face and accurate is that the long road sometimes can be very special, but you have to see it. You have to really, if you say it out loud,

no, that's not going to work, no way. But if you see it, then you start to feel it and it's even sweeter if that moment comes, if that day comes. But there was, I'm sure, a myriad of plans. I'm so plugged out of a creative aspect because, I mean, from the time I was PayPal and you, I my days as a creative person or I'm not interested in them even if I had the best idea ever I would be afraid to pitch it to anybody just because it just I it just burned me out doing it and I was too young to be doing it I was I should have just been throwing my tights on boots on being a wrestler or superstar every want to put it but I that was the job and that's what the audience wanted and just was a lot taxing great lessons though I remember saying to you in that interview of like how

How do you balance being an executive and an in-ring performer? You're like, you don't. Oh, I'm glad I was smart enough to know then. You don't, yeah. And when I was backstage, I'm fortunate enough to do some stuff with you guys in AEW. You were an executive. You were heading up that show at that time. Yeah, I took pride in that.

Yeah, as you should. And do you feel like at any point, the wrestling then took a back seat? I think the wrestling took a back seat right away. because I thought my bigger mistake, and this wasn't an A.A.W. This was a Cody mistake. My biggest mistake was thinking, I'll stay as good as I am in the ring,

only wrestling twice, three times, maybe just once a month. Sorry. And the Gen Z crowd out there is about to lose their mind, and I hope they understand what I'm saying. You have to do live events. You cannot learn how to work a live audience unless you perform in front of a live audience.

So I was getting worse. as was everybody. And some of the best wrestlers, you name them in that first year, the crowd was incredibly generous to us because we were new, we were fresh. Some of the stuff isn't going to hold up just because we weren't able to do this on the regular

and get it down and sharpen our tools. And that's just, that was just, maybe it's just me. Maybe it's nobody else, but you have to be able to do it. So that's an area where I think I was suffering from immediately. But you mentioned taking pride in the executive element. I, I ran the production. I loved. Yeah. Yeah. So you were there where I was still running those meetings. Yeah. I really

love, from an ego standpoint, from an optic standpoint, that was really cool. But I also really loved leading. And I just maybe wasn't ready to fully lead at that point. And it didn't rub everyone the right way that, why is he running the production meeting? Why is this and that? And then, you know, your vision. Kenny's vision, Maddenick's vision, everyone's vision's that one thing, but you know, Tony has a vision.

And this is his money. And then let's see how that plays out. But that was a good time. I'm glad you had a good experience because when we left, there was this whole like disinformation campaign that Wade Keller put out, and I'm not even mad at Wade Keller.

No heat would Wade. But I could tell what was going on. Like, yeah, you didn't talk to any real. source. No, I was an executive, as a member management, I was happy, wanted to help and took huge pride in us being a professional organization. And that shows amongst the roster of the locker room, my kids, the people I didn't recruit, people I did recruit. Yeah, there was such a fog of misinformation when I left that it's fun to see in the dock itself. You know, that wasn't the case. It was just time.

One of the biggest things that's changed. For both of us, since I saw your last is we're both fathers now. Oh, wow. Girl dads. I feel like I congratulated during everything else and then didn't say that. That's okay. Congratulations. We both have daughters.

There's name again with an owl. Yeah. Logan. Liberty. Logan's a beautiful name. Thank you. How old is this? How old?

She is seven weeks old. Only seven weeks? Yeah. Seven weeks. How's asleep? Not good. Now, are you happy to be on the road? Um, is my wife going to be watching?

Probably. That's happy to be on the earth. I got a full night sleep last night. Oh, yeah. That was no good. She did not. She, like, I woke up four times. So you won't, you won't get the full night's sleep, even if you get a full night's sleep, because they, they have a tendency, wives have a tendency to text you every detail of the tantrum.

How does you know? And it's great to know, like, oh, she's up. Oh, she's crying. But you can't do anything. Like, I can't do anything. So it's like the classic, like, lady given. birth like I hate you like it's like they're just going through that again like yeah I got it like I can't help this is I'm just here I'm just here I'll rub your back I yeah like I don't have like I don't have like if I had

like a mic where I could talk to her like hey lib you know try and go to sleep here this is this is rough but we don't have any way to do that so yeah sleep's tough well congratulations on everything thank you so much thank you congratulations to you thank you it got all jacked I was I was I was I was really impressed. I follow what you do, and I'm very impressed. I appreciate that. Yeah.

I wanted to show people that a dad bod could look like this. Well, dad bods, now the, well, also, bods are held to a ridiculous standard now. So you have abs. Once you have abs,

you're screwed because you have to keep them. That's, like, even if you get like a little 80s soft where you're still jacked, but you're like 80s soft, like tight tie up belly button, even if you have the, like,

but if they don't see him, it's like, I got fat, you know? Pizza way too much, too. Yeah. I would love. My next cheat meal is next Tuesday after the Tampa roll.

I'm pretty, pretty excited about it. So I end every conversation with the same question because gratitude is such a big important part of my life. I wake up every day. I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. Oh, okay. I do it before I go to bed. What are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now?

Brandy, Liberty, Pharaoh. There we go. How's Pharaoh? He's deaf. But so we don't know if he's, really deaf because we opened the popcorn up today and I was just telling like before you guys started like he he started doing this but Pharaoh got old out of nowhere he was like a puppy and the next thing you know he's 13 he doesn't want to get up and yety the pomeranian who i'm also

grateful for but not to the level of the three things he just pharaoh's just an old man he's an old man wrestler now uh he can do a few things you know he's not taking any bumps it's going to be pretty basic uh but pharaoh pharaoh's the man he's still he's still he's still he's in a house with love and all Brandy's dogs lived to be 16 so i'm hoping he gets there because we had a chihuahua that brandy had her whole life named monte one eye couldn't see couldn't anything he made it all the way to the end you know it was a baller well sir congratulations what are your three things oh what are my three yeah what are your three oh my gosh i think i'm just going to put family all in one so that's rachel and logan our dog our 13 year old dog logan that's well sorry luna two is hell

Because without health, what else do you have? Oh, you're talking to DDP too much. Oh, come on. Yeah, you're staying with him, right? I am staying with him. The well man has a thousand problems. The sick man has one. About that all the time.

Yep. And then number three is just opportunities. Like, we live in a time right now where we can set up a camera on a tripod here and millions of people can see this. Like, it's pretty incredible. You're tailor-made for DDP. I'm so cynical and pessimistic, but I have such a deep love with Dallas. but even he knows, like, he's not buying in to this.

He's this, he's not, the power cuffs, though, those are real. They are real. Power cuffs are real. Power cuffs are real. So good on, good on D. So that's my, he only has one line in the documentary. I think he's going to be furious when he watches it. I asked him last night, I said, are you in the documentary?

He's like, well, I recorded some stuff for it. I'm like, he didn't record a lot. But we love Dallas, right? Yeah, of course we love Dallas. Dallas is the best. Dallas is the best. Shoot the best. He put you over in an interview I did with him earlier today.

He had a great line about my power. My superpower is believing in myself. And I wanted to incorporate it in a promo. And then I realized saying it out loud when you're the person saying it just doesn't feel the same as if someone else says it. So Dallas is the man. You're the man. Thanks, man. Thank you, sir.

Very much. I appreciate it. I will PayPal you for the interview. That's great. Okay. There we go. Cody Rhodes. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

It was a long time coming, right? It was a long time coming. We're both fathers now. It was cool to be able to talk a little bit of father stuff in there. If you enjoyed this, please share it with someone who you know will also enjoy this. And take a screenshot and tag us on social media. Cody's at Cody Rhodes on Twitter. At American Nightmare Cody on Instagram.

I'm at Chris Van Vleet everywhere except for TikTok, Chris dot Vamvleet on TikTok. And the documentary, which is called American Nightmare Becoming Cody Rhodes, comes out on Peacock on July 31st. It is, it's so good. It's so good. And it was an honor to be there in Atlanta to be able to chat with him. We're both wearing suits during this conversation. So if you haven't yet seen the clips or seen the full video on YouTube, they were wearing suits because it was a red carpet premiere. So cool to see him walking the red carpet with his wife, Brandy, got an interview with her, which you'll be seeing on YouTube very soon.

I also talked to the voice of raw, Kevin Patrick. He was there. Did an interview with, saw Brandy was walking the right carpet, which I said. And then also Matt Cardona, Chelsea Green, Diamond Dallas Page walking the red carpet. All of this was just so great. It was such a great night. And I'm just so glad that this all came together and the perfect time, really the perfect time to catch up with Cody with everything that has gone on with him and everything

that is currently going on with him. And I saw this quote this week from Deepak Chopra, which I feel like is very fitting to a lot of what we talked about here. All great changes are preceded by chaos. I feel like maybe that hits home for a lot of people here. So this is episode number 4.95. We're just five episodes away from that big episode number 500. Who could it be if you're not already following the show or subscribe to the show, please take a second right now to follow wherever you listen right now. We've got so much great stuff coming up, not just for episode 500,

but for all the episodes between now and 500 and then everything after that. So thank you so much for being on this ride with us. Be great and be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. With Booker T, by the way. Jim Rome takes on sports.

Why? Because I have a job. job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand.

He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.