Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Cody Rhodes On Turning Heel, The Rock, WrestleMania 40, Homelander, Finishing The Story

Episode Date: July 16, 2024

Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) is a professional wrestler currently signed to WWE and is reigning as the Undisputed Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Toronto to discuss the night he won the WWE Championship at WrestleMania and what happened next, the twists and turns that led to the eventual victory, whether turning heel turn will ever happen, comparisons to Homelander, his thoughts on The Rock and the mystery item that was given to him on the Raw after WrestleMania, whether anyone crossed the line with their promos leading up to WrestleMania, making every night special for the fans and more! Quote I'm thinking about: “The key to success is to start before you're ready.” – Marie Forleo Sponsors: PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank which was designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/ PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! TIMELINE NUTRITION: Save 10% off your first order of Mitopure at http://timeline.com/INSIGHT BONCHARGE: Use the code CVV to save 15% off your infrared sauna blanket at https://boncharge.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code INSIGHT to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Oh yeah, welcome back to another one. Here on Insight, I'm CVV. Chris Van Fleet, thank you for being with us, and thank you for making Insight, the number one wrestling podcast on the planet. And you saw the title. You saw the guest. Yeah, we've got a big one today.

The American Nightmare is in the house. And if you're new here, or if you're one of the thousands of people who listen to this show, but aren't following the show, hit a crossroads right now on that follow button on Spotify or Apple Podcasts

or wherever you're listening right now. It's been almost a year to the day that Cody was on the show. Episode 495, if you want to go back and give it a listen, obviously a lot's changed since then. I don't need to go into it and tell you every little detail.

You're a wrestling fan. You already know it. But I will tell you this. I've done a lot of interviews with Cody. but never with Cody as the WWE champion. The very first interview that I did with him was at WrestleMania 27 in Atlanta. I recorded that on a flip cam. Remember flip cams?

It's actually, if you go way back into the archives on my YouTube channel, it's actually the first wrestling interview that I ever uploaded on there. The thing I love about Cody is that he's always been the same humble guy no matter what stage of his career that he's at. I really enjoyed this conversation. It's the longest one that we've ever had. It's a little extra special to me as a Canadian that we were able to do this in Toronto. We recorded this the day before Money in the Bank.

And we cover a lot of things here, including all of the talk about Cody turning heel, the comparisons to Homelander, and why he's never said anything negative about AEW. So take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. tag us. We'd love to share it out. He's at Cody Rhodes on Twitter slash X. He's at American Nightmare Cody on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And if you follow Cody already on Twitter, you might have seen that he posted the photo of us from this interview, the day that we recorded it. And he said that he asked for something to be edited out. So yeah, those couple sentences that got edited out will be just for the people

who were in that room. And now you're free to speculate wildly about what might have been said. But here we go. Enjoy this conversation with the American nightmare, the undisputed WWE champion. It's Cody Rhodes. Thank you for making the time to do this.

Thank you. Are we doing it? We are doing it. Oh, we're live right now. I like the bracelet here. Oh, friendship bracelet? Yeah. That's what they call these.

That's what they call it. Yeah. they become a thing on the live events and then after TV is really when I get the opportunity to make the rounds and do the pictures and autographs and stuff like that. People like to give these to you. And it's always tough leaving the arena with stuff, whether, you know, I'm lucky to have the bus. But I can never, if you've given me something, this is probably a good, also bad habit. I can't discard it. Once you've given it to me, like you'll see the security guys.

they'll take something for me. Those still travel with me. So basically we have this whole drawer. And I mean, it's the stack of the bracelets is like up to here. And it's the coolest thing ever. So I like to throw one on from time to time. How do you decide which one to wear then? Well, this one I felt was appropriate because it says WW champ.

Hey. And as you can see, and this is the first time we've done an interview since I became WWCAM. We've done the interviews at a lot of different various stages of your career. Right. Ring of Honor champion. We did that one. Yeah. We did one right before the very first AEW show. Yeah. We did one when your documentary came out.

Yeah, becoming Cody Rhodes. Best documentary there is. It's better than the WrestleMania one, I think. For sure. Yeah, you could have a lot of the footage, I think, was used. Yes. So I feel like you could have also just made a second documentary for me, but whatever. Actually, the WrestleMania documentary, I thought Benhouser, Matt Brain, Adam Panucci, those guys were separate from it,

but those doc teams are really, really good. So good. They're getting very, so there was this period of time where DVDs were super, super transparent and honest. Then there was this period of time where it was just one side of the story. Seems like we're getting back into the, hey, let's tell the truth. Let's get it all out there. And that's really cool. There's some people that are like, I don't want to know this much.

Like you're breaking K-Fabe too much. Yeah. Well, with the behind the scenes documentary, that's really as far as I think you should ever go. Not because I don't want people to know, but the legend is supposed to be cooler than the fact. You know, so watching the documentary the other night, I feel like people have all these questions and there's this whole, there's kind of these different outlooks and takes. And I like that more than someone definitively saying, no. Yeah. Here's actually what happened.

And plus, I like that Rock, Roman, me, Seth, and Triple H all look like we were involved with a bank heist, but have different stories when we got caught by the cops. Like everybody in the interrogation was him. It was him. It was me. It was, I do like that. What happened that night after you won that? I didn't sleep.

You went right to the Today Show. I went right to the Today Show. I laid in a bunk and I texted a bunch of people, including the Undertaker. and now Undertaker has a podcast and a stage show. So things you might say could become public knowledge, these legends, that's what they do. I left him what I would say is a rambling, perhaps intoxicated little rant on his, just thanking him for being there. It's the freaking sheriff. But yeah, immediately after here was sincerely, I said it in the behind the scenes documentary, but it's really how I felt.

I thought, I thought I was almost worried there'd be the sense of completion, the sense of fullness. I was genuinely concerned, like, well, story's over. But as soon as it was done, it felt like, oh, like literally felt 10 feet tall, felt bulletproof, felt younger, felt faster, like just didn't feel grizzles. at all to the point where I thought, oh, this is going to be a lot of fun, but what do we do next? Because you finish the story, but then you begin this whole new journey.

Yeah. Right? And what does that look like? Well, I mean, so I think it's an adjustment right now for going from finishing the story to these big marquee title matches.

I was particularly happy with AJ, the match with AJ in France, and the match with Logan and Saudi, just because I really wanted to set a different standard for title matches, the actual matches. But then again, there's also Friday Night Smackdown, and Monday Night Raw were the stories and the fun. I was always in the thick of it.

So we're kind of adjusting to now everyone's coming for you. You're not chasing. You're not cutting these passionate interviews and promos about what you want. You're on the defensive. And that's very new for me. You know, you mentioned the Ring of Honor World Championship and our various interviews. I don't know if I might have told you this.

That night, Lowell, Massachusetts. Lowell? Yeah. The best text I got that night was from Triple H. Wow. Yeah. What did say? Just said congratulations.

Wow. Best text I got that night. And that was, that was, I was glad he was watching. Yeah. You know, I think he, the, the internet is. hip to the fact that he's clearly watching. Sure. There's a whole meme about maybe he's got a burner account.

He's out there doing it, but that was really cool to see. He had his ear to the ground and what was happening. You've done so many of these interviews over the last year. Yeah. What do you wish that people asked you more? Oh, I honestly wish they asked me. So doing an interview in 2024, and it's been like this for the past few years, is no longer as fun for any wrestler as it used to be.

because you do this interview and you'd hope like your message gets across or maybe we sold some tickets or whatever it is there you're there to discuss today the uh the wrestling social media sites take your words and they are your words like typically usually something you did say and they just put it on a blanket tweet or they put it on a blanket Instagram post and they put it out there and then it becomes this lightning rod discussion and again people not in our shoes can say like oh, that's part of the gig. And you did say that. So you can never be the one like,

well, it's not exactly how it went. But it just creates a different conversation than perhaps it stemmed from in the interview in the first place. Like there's some contextual elements. I've, at this point, I'm very happy, knowing that everything I say is going to be great for some people and perhaps a problem for others. Yeah.

And like when you have this championship, you become a target, not just for people who want to win the championship, but for fans that either love you or hate you, They'll feel something about you. So then how do you deal with people who maybe don't like you or don't like your character? I, uh, you ever watch Joe Parks and Rec?

Yeah. Okay. So there's a really great, you'll probably know the episode. She's running for city council and there's a guy who hates her. And for no reason. Yeah. He just has a thing hates her and she throws this bowling night and ultimately. at the bowling night.

She's not supposed to be putting time in on him, but she clearly is. She's trying to turn him. And the message is that that's never going to happen, you know. With me, that's where I feel very comfortable these days. I'd rather rock and party with the people who were part of all this and the fans versus it's nice to prove fans,

right? It's also nice to prove critics wrong, but it's not my main focus. I feel like for a long time chip on the shoulder, you wanted to turn them, change them. And you can to some degree. But I feel like when you do that, you discard the ones who are right there. Like, hey, we got your back.

Why are you so focused on this, you know? Yeah, and I don't know if everybody sees all of the work that you put in behind the scenes. Like champion schedule is a real thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm not going to say anything negative about it because it's what I expected. Yeah. But it's gotten to the point now where there's a really,

really nice. I won't name his name because I don't want to blow his spot, but it's really nice young man and talent relations that WW has now. In addition to Brian, who's sitting off camera here, last week was the first time ever we sat down in my locker room and said, hey, here's the week. It's now at that point where it's, hey, here's the week. And on paper, here's your itinerary. I actually think it's really cool, but it's just with home life, three-year-old daughter, all of that, you have to also make that time. That's the most important time, obviously. But Brandy, very smart to you wanted it all along. And she's been that way since I won the Royal Rumble in San Antonio. She was the first person who when I kind of complained or got

a little mad about something, she said, this is a world champion schedule. And I thought, uh, well, what you wanted. Yeah. You're constantly making these moments. Like at live events, You're picking somebody out of the crowd. Yeah. Doing the entrance with you. You're making these core memories. You want to know some funny about grabbing kids out of the crowd? Sometimes they, you see a body and you think, wow, that cosplay is great.

That's perfect. I'm going to have he or she do the woe with me. And then you don't realize because maybe they're not standing on their chair. You don't realize that you just picked up a 15-year-old, you know, like over 100 pounds. You know what I'm saying? It's kind of a funny, you'll see my hands go under. I'm always assuming it's like an eight-year-old. And then it's just sometimes you get, it's like getting a real big fish.

It's like you're proud of it, but also it's like, oh, man, I got to get you back over the rail. It's so funny. I don't have the best eye for it. But that's the- Do you pick them out ahead of time? No. Like during your entrance? Sometimes, so like Nia Jacks is pretty good about when she's on the live events and she's been skipping some live events lately, which I don't like at all. And Road Dogg needs to put her on the live events.

Naya, she's good about saying Bailey is also good about this as well, saying, hey, there's a kid out there. They're an X-Row. There's that. And that's super helpful. Not ribbing, actually. They find a good spot. But usually on the way out, I've got a good head on a swivel because now we're wrestling so much. The wrestling is never secondary.

My gosh. But you might have that down to the point where you're able, you free yourself up to look around, seeing the signs. WWB has more signs now than it previously did. It's coming back, you know, and to see them and just have a moment with each person to thank them for being there for me and for WWB. Yeah, you're creating these core memories.

Like, though that person may one day become WWE world champion because of that one moment that you guys had. They have a, what if they have a podcast, you know? Yeah, they're coming after you. I know they. There's a whole generation of you. You guys are still the young, hot podcast and thing. You are, but there's a whole generation that's coming.

Oh, I know. And they're going to have strong opinions about stuff that you're like, what? It's very much, so there's two fandoms in the world that love to eat themselves alive. One is the wrestling fandom. Yes. We love to fight and war each other until an outside celebrity says something mean about wrestling. Then everyone's on the same page. That's such a good point.

The other one that decides, no, we are just going to eat each other fully alive. and cannibalize and be in our camps is the Star Wars fandom. And here's something that people have discovered from the Star Wars fandom. And I'm going to put it out there for everyone. The prequels were actually really good. Wow. Because those were our Star Wars. Those were the ones we grew up with.

You're going to get so much heat for that. So I'll get heat from your audience. But there's a whole like Hayden Christensen comes out and gets a freaking, you know, a Monday Night Raw pop. When he returns, whereas had you done this years ago, that's my point is that these young podcasts were going to come up and they're going to be saying things. I know.

Because we have it at the school where we ask him at the nightmare factory, like, who's your favorite wrestler? And then it's a name that like, what? Like who? You know, but you don't want to, that's, that's who their people are. That's who their heroes are.

Basically what I'm saying is we're getting phased out. What? What do we have? Ten more? Ten more years? Ten more until you become like. Can we do ten more interviews in that time? Yeah, we could.

I wanted to get this one done with you. I was excited. And I really appreciate that. You've always been so kind. me so thank you. Well, I realize why you're so wealthy and rich is because you do this all. You do this all yourself? Three cameras.

I don't usually. You guys know he does this all himself? I don't usually, but we do have one camera, two camera and Cody needs to point to this one. There it is, three cameras. I think the Fourth of July threw a wrinkle in all of the plans. Yeah. Of like people coming with me. How do you feel about the Fourth of July?

Being a Canadian? Yeah. It's such a fun day. Yeah. It's like it's barbecues and it's parades and it's fireworks. Maybe they go on a little too long though. Firewrest till like two in the morning. It depends on where you're at.

Yeah, where we live later. So what a day. In the country like in this or more in the south, those fireworks are going off for not just the 4th of July. Pretty much all week. The fireworks are had. That's like a thing we love. Yeah. July 4th is a special day.

I've lived in America, and ironically, we were sitting in Toronto, Canada, as we record this, but I've lived in America for 14 years. There's nothing like the Fourth of July. Oh, it's the best. It's pretty great. Well, I mean, we have a lot of people right now who heavily, I mean, the political season, the political theater we're watching is unprecedented, no matter where you fall on the spectrum. But things like the Fourth of July remind me of the good stuff, USA, you know, hope and optimism. Those are those holidays.

I feel like I wish everyone could agree on. I spent my fourth at Sammy Zane's and Friends comedy show. You weren't even in America for the Fourth of July. I wasn't even in America and it's kind of my holiday. You are the American Nightmare. Kind of my holiday, yeah. No, they had a pool party at my house

without me being there. Was DDP there? I don't know. He might, he shows up. Yeah. He shows up. I have a, I don't know. I don't know if I could tell that story.

Tell me off camera then. Yes. Okay. DDP story off camera. DDP's great. He's the best. He's one of your guys, right? I love that guy.

So he threw me, he probably has the footage, which he's super careful about any footage with me, which is kind. But he tried to do me a power cuff's workout. And guys, I'm not, the job is pretty physically aggressive. So you're lower back, you're like warming up for a pro wrestler to go to the workout. like workout during the week. That warm up is like an hour if you're really doing it because your body is just maybe wrecked. Your pelvis is out of line,

your lower back, like herniations are a big common thing. Anyways, I'm making excuses though because I go to do this power cuff workout and I bailed 10 minutes in it. And he even told his camera guy is like, stop, turn it off.

We don't like, I want to walk him through the rest of the workout with much lighter weight. I was like anti his power cuff's workout. and then I did it. And it's been outstanding. Oh, it's incredible. God, I love the cuffs.

That's amazing. You're lifting like 10 pounds. Yeah. You've got like veins just everywhere. Yeah. Yeah, it's incredible. Yeah, you get the good vascularity. And then I even did, I for a long time, had been anti-DDPY.

Not anti. Wow. Not anti because he's unbelievable, special. But I had just been kind of curmudgeon and like a pessimist. And now I'm on the app. You get to self-five when you finish. I even did like Stevie Richards old 20 something minute, you know, DDPY take, which is great because I think Steve Richards now goes online and talks about how none of us know

how to wrestle anymore. But so the whole time I was looking at him like, oh, that's the guy. But he's also my instructor in this moment, you know? Yeah, shout out to DDP. It's a good egg. Since you're creating all these core moments for these young fans, did you have that moment, you know, growing up around wrestling? Did you have that one moment where you're like, oh, my gosh, I'll never forget this?

I probably had two different. There's like three actually that really stand out. One was really simple. Macho man had come to WCW. I wasn't as young anymore. I think it was 12, whatever it may be. But I was a big fan of macho man. It's the macho king.

It's one of the biggest stars ever. And like still to this day, as over as over gets. But he just randomly walked by me. And my dad always would introduce. me as if I was a 25-year-old wrestler, you know, like, hello, sir, and he put a lot of pressure on me in those moments. And he just said something, I think he was like, hey, code man, how many push-ups can you do? It's 10? Oh, do 10 with me. And then we just got on the floor and we did push-ups. And I thought, okay, Mottoman's my favorite wrestler ever. It was a cool moment.

prior to that my guys at wcw were muda who uh signed uh one of the boards you know they have in japan for the autographs he signed one of those and he still had the hood on over his paint and we just had a moment backstage and he came down on one knee and it was just i couldn't believe it i just thought he was the coolest thing ever uh and then the big one big big one was sting as i mean i'm sure he probably remembers this i'd just be like around the corner in the locker rooms and one that just any interaction I could get was staying because he was the franchise guy and him and my dad had a good relationship and just he was my idol young idol growing up wanting to be a wrestler doesn't this make you hyper aware of

every interaction you have with every fan you know whether it's three seconds good or bad that's their perception of you for the rest of their life a lot of so there's like a lot of discussion on the stuff I do at the end of the night at these shows. Internally, I think people thought, WW has been really great about, hey, yes, it takes longer and we have to break the ring down 45 minutes to an hour later. But this is, we like this. It was kind of new to WWB.

It's almost this thing that I took from the independent scene. In a sense. You did it on AEW. Yeah. Just everywhere I go. Stay till the very end. Stay till the very end. And if you kick me out, no problem.

If there's a curfew, no problem. Like, that's fine. Drag me, drag me out. But I, uh, I don't think of it that way. You know, like, I love that it, I hope it is a core memory. I hope people do have something that they remember it. And selfishly, probably I'm hoping that I'm their guy. But I sincerely just really enjoy it.

And, uh, it's not, you know, one of the things I think Roman, Roman reigns called me political. and I thought it didn't shake me at all. It didn't hurt because I thought, no, it seems political. And maybe it looks political, but it's not. I just like this. You don't know how long you're going to have. You don't know how many spins around the earth you get and don't know how many times you're going to be

kind of the North Star of the wrestling business. So I just, I really enjoy it. Prize Picks is America's number one daily fantasy sports app with over 5 million active members. Prize picks is the easiest and most exciting way to play daily fantasy sports. Unlike other apps, on prize picks, it's just you against the numbers. All you do is pick more or less on two to six player stat projections and watch the winnings roll in.

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parts you need at the prices you want, it's easy to make your car the MVP and bring home huge wins. Keep your ride or die alive today at eBaymotors.com. Eligible items only, exclusions apply. Hey guys, it's Sam Roberts. Thank you for letting me interrupt this episode of Insight. Once you're done listening, why don't you do me a favor and come join us if you haven't already. over at Not Sam Wrestling, where we are talking about wrestling like it's the most important thing in the world, because quite frankly, it is. Every single Monday, we drop a new episode of Not Sam Wrestling. And of course, one of these emergency podcasts, whenever we deem it necessary, we are breaking down everything going on in the world of professional wrestling and going through it with a fine tooth comb as only we can at Not Sam Wrestling. So search us out on Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts and join us every single week with yours truly,

the last professional broadcaster, Sam Roberts, on Not Sam Wrestling. So I started collecting cards recently. Yeah. I got this one right here. Wow. Who is this guy? That's a Cody Rhodes rookie card. Take a look at that.

Make a look at that. 2008, right? 2008 Topps Heritage. 2008. All it should say on it is Cody Rhodes is Dusty Road, son. that's literally like the first thing it says filling the boots of the legend is at times hard to do

but that's what Cody Rose is attempting to do though he struggled early in WWE Cody was soon able to pick up his game and has impressive victories over young stars such as Charlie Haas and Shelton Benjamin I believe this card is actually a popular rookie card I think so well the Chrome version

of it okay yeah I uh which I also have I have good feelings about this card because these yellow trunks in just this period of time is actually when I slide it back to you. Yeah.

So when I wrestled Davari and DeVari, who's a producer at WWB now, was the first guy. I'm not saying others didn't who really wanted to help me. This is a shark tank infested industry.

A lot of people say they want to help you and they might help you to a degree. or they might help you for them, which is, again, I get it. You take care of the person, maybe you're wrestling at the time, whatever it is. But he really just wanted me to succeed on a, you're a young, hopefully star for this company moving forward in the future. And it was around that time I had those yellow, it was like the first few outings were pretty rotten.

And then I got into some settings with him and a few others where things started to take off and pick up and I was able to show off that I, you know, I'm not, they got me really early. fundamentally wasn't ready. Mentally, my gosh, far from ready. But I got to grow up in front of everybody. Wouldn't recommend it. But also it worked for me. DeVarie was really helpful.

So good feelings about that card. Right before that, and you talk about it in your documentary, you moved to Hollywood. You wanted to be an actor. You trained under Howard Fine. I did. I say that because my friend Brandon trains under him now. He's the best.

He's a legendary acting coach. Legendary. What do you remember from working under Howard Fine? I think day one, what I discovered with Howard, you know, you get Oudahagen a challenge for the actor and now Howard has his own book that she teaches out of. Day one, I discovered, and this is going to sound ridiculous, how applicable his teaching was to pro wrestling. Wow. So much of the don't indicate, you know, you don't have to point if you're trying to reference something over there. If you walk in the room and it's on fire, you're not expecting to walk in and be on fire.

He just had these really helpful, you know, I always use this as an example. If somebody hits a brother in the back with a steel chair and the ref is, you can hear that. So these are the things like, we can't do that. Like there's a suspension of disbelief to wrestling and it needs to be the same level that's, you know, the big artsy mediums have. And that just Howard's class was super helpful. I kept thinking, oh, this will be helpful for my wrestling career when I start that, which I should have just not taken the time. very grateful for Howard.

I had nothing to do in L.A. But that, I was grateful for the fact that he's not just teaching you acting. He probably hates this term, but that weekly class is very

therapeutic. You have to look inside. That's what you're putting out on stage. You're putting out on film, whatever. You have to be emotionally aware and connect. And a lot of people say they want that. And then realize when you strike a raw nerve, like, ooh, I don't know how I feel about that. And that's hard to be part of.

But he was very helpful as my acting coach. And I'd say even as a wrestling mentor. And he may not know that or I've ever heard that, but super helpful to me there. When you were there, you were still thinking about wrestling. Yeah. So you weren't all in. Yeah. So there's like, who was it?

Was it Chicken's book or my dad's book? He was Dustin's book. I don't know. Did Dustin write a book? Yeah, either way. There was some, no, I think it was a media interview he did. He said something like that I didn't want to be a wrestler. And he's probably not wrong at the time.

I was saying, I want to be an actor or whatever. But my whole life I had wanted to be a wrestler up until that point. And it was just like a little excursion. I had, have you ever seen movie Vision Quest? No. Oh, you never seen Vision Quest? Oh, man, please. I know.

I'm sorry. Everybody watched Vision Quest. That was truthfully how my high school was. I was obsessed with folk style wrestling, obsessed with Granby videotapes and the Kinscheratow gold medal camps that I had to travel all over the country to go to because they didn't have them really in Georgia. I was obsessed with it. And I had that really unbelievable record of 101 wins and two losses.

So by the time it was over, mentally I was tapped, like burnout. And I had already told everyone I'm not going to college. I had this weird outlook on college at the time. I think I was looking to attach to the next thing with the same commitment that I had had, but the love really wasn't there. The love for pro wrestling was there.

I should have jumped right in. But so grateful because Howard actually wrote me a letter of recommendation that I gave to John Laurenitis and I gave to Dean Molinko who met me at the Marriott. And I could tell they were gonna hire me anyways out of respect for Dusty.

But this was a little piece of like, oh, he's prepared. He's on it. And yeah, Howard wrote that for me. It was really nice. I don't think people give you enough credit for how good you were at playing Stardust. And there was this one interview that I always go back to.

And you're saying, do you know where Cody is? Your Star Dust the entire time, right? You're deep into being Stardust. Do you know where Cody is? I heard he's fishing along the Alaskan archipelago. Like, where did you come up with that? The random. Alaskan archipelago is clearly,

I'd been playing Metal Gear Solid because that's where Shadow Moses is. And you want to know something really fun? Cody has a full beard right now. Oh, man. I would love to see me with a full beard. I've really pushed Stardust out of my mind. So a lot of people will be like,

I love this, I did this, or they'll show me a picture when they met me as Stardust if I was Stardust, never fully confirmed if I was. But I just have pushed it out of my mind. I don't, maybe it's because I'm getting older.

You know what I'm saying? You're making room for everything. else. So this is a joke I have with my friends, the good. So like, if you're not really active in my life, I got to move you out to make room for the new memories. Because I'll act like there's certain people who I've wrestled that will say something. I'll be like, oh, I didn't know.

I didn't realize we've ever wrestled. Just I don't want them to think, like, I don't want them to flatter themselves. They're just in my mind all the time. Yeah, Stardust, I probably told you this. I would do everything if I was Stardust. I would do everything in full, but it was because of, I wanted to commit to it, but it was also because I hated the fact that if I had not, that would be the questioning. Why aren't you, you came here as Cody Rhodes?

Why aren't you Cody Rhodes? I wouldn't have had an answer, you know, at the time. So it was kind of a, not to bring anybody down, it was kind of a sad, sadness. I remember getting on an elevator with Sammy Zame when he had been called up from NXT, and I'm in the full, the full deal, bodysuit knee pads, painted up, and he kind of just chuckled at me. And I thought, oh, this is not,

this is not for me, guys, but. But you were fully committed. And actually, there was another interview that I forgot, WrestleMania 27, Access in Atlanta. Yeah. I did a very brief interview with you and you had the face mask on. You've always been fully committed to the character.

Yeah, my nose was broken. That's right. Right. Yeah, that's right. But does that mean that you're fully in character now? That's a great question. I would hope, and again, I don't know if all wrestlers are as aware as we like to be about how we are in a group setting in the world not revolving around us. I think once I left WDB the first time and when I did my own thing, I think I kind of ceased to be a

character and just accepted the fact that present yourself now present the self that you want to be you know that's where the suits and stuff came from present yourself uh but but be yourself and it's actually so so no i don't feel i'm in character now um but um it's it's it's something that i've i've kind of lived, I've lived and dreamed out loud with my career and what I want stating, you know, here's the goals at the end. As shocking as it is to say, sometimes I wish there was a little bit more of a character that I could hide into because it feels like, again, like, we don't even have to, you have questions, you don't have to have questions because you know me.

Yeah. It's a scary thing that like the world, like that doc that just came out in my own documentary, part of that's a little intimidating. the world has they know you yeah they have a sense of you you know and and they can wrap an opinion around it and just again being vulnerable and being out there it's the wrestlers i grew up loving the big bombastic loud talkers and bright colors and you didn't know who they were uh with me the the individual that caught on was me me and that's a little it can be a burden in addition to being amazing but can be a burden as well does brandy ever go

Maybe not so much. Maybe we can pull it back a little bit. You tell the people a lot. You let them in a lot. No, she's a, she's really good about, we, it's wardrobe a lot.

She's really good about wanting to protect me. And we've been, ever since, you know, in the last two years, the wrestling business and knock on wood, hopefully it stays this way. Wrestling business has been on an up, up, up, up, up.

And it went from like, you'd meet wrestling fans out and about and it's cool and it feel good. To now it's, it's, it's aggressive. And it's, and it's just great, you know, it's a great complaint to have. And it's just, the fandom is so big. So she's really good on kind of keeping me covered up with family time. But the funny thing is she got a big purple piece of hair. You know what I'm saying? Like she, she stands out like a sore thumb.

So she's just a dead giveaway anyways. But to me, it's a great. greatest complaint you can ever have that you're you know that that you have people who want to say hi or meet you or whatever it is it's the best thing it's the whole reason we do this brandy was in the crowd at russomalia 39 yeah russomalia 40 she's by your side what was the decision to have her come out with you at 40 everything uh and wrapped around that um you got to kind of relate back to our credit back uh to triple h and nick con and br Bruce Pritchard. They just, they, they understood there's a difference between, hey, I want to get my buddy on the show or, hey, this is, you know, a friend, but it's really a niche market that might understand it. They understood what I was just telling you earlier, that this has been lived out loud in

front of them. She's a huge part of that, a massive part of that. She's not a stand behind you type. She's a stand next to you type. So it was very nice that they wanted that to happen. It was even more special. I was touched how great the wrestling fans were to her. Because I think if you're around the business long enough,

you look at your social and stuff, you look at things in a vacuum, you have peaks, you have valleys. I don't think she remembered how cool they can be as an audience. And that was really nice to hear the reaction they had for her. This is a really, to me, it will be my favorite entrance ever. And it's very simple. You know, there was the prelude, Brian Fatham, Tamario at WWB,

helped get all that together. There was this prelude music that they let me pick and then to rise up. And Jason Baker, who developed a lot of the stuff for The Fiend, had come up with making the tattoo an actual mask. And he did a mind-blowing job. Yeah, it's my favorite interest ever, and it's very simple. It's very, you know, minus the, minus the pyro, it's relatively cost effective. It's relatively cost.

Minus the pyro, yeah, that pyro is where you run up the bill, you know. Did you think that the first promo were you really got emotional? Did you think, as you were thinking it through, maybe writing it down, did you think, oh my gosh, like this is, this might be difficult to say out. Like a trigger point? Yeah. Well, I mean, I've, I don't know if it's unfortunate, but maybe I unfortunately have gotten emotional. on a lot of promos. And I am well aware it is not everyone's cup of tea.

But again, goes along with 100% what I was saying to you. Like, I've lived this out loud. I'd be false if I wasn't actually emotional. What will happen is I'll put something together in my mind. Oh, I'd love to say this. I'd love to put this. Or I'll write something down in my notes. What will happen is when you write it down, it's just paper.

It's just words. You don't look at it at all. And then when you start, if you are wanting to start just kind of doing your promo aloud, start saying it. That's when you know, ooh, that could be a, that could be a problem. Yeah. And I've never had anyone try to produce me for that, which I'm glad because the emotions you'll get from me, good, bad, ugly, indifferent, sobby, whatever they may be, they have to be real. If you find somebody who's like, what if you could cry here or maybe some fake, again, it goes against everything, Howard. presented, you know, like, yeah, it has to be real.

So all the emotions you get from me, there's a whole online sect of people that hate the lip biting and the fighting the emotions, but that's what it is. It's real. It means something to me, you know? Do you think The Rock crossed the line with any of the promos he cut on you? Depends on what line. You know, when you're the director of the board, you can do whatever. ever you want.

The show is not going off the air, and no one's getting fired if you do something that's a little outrageous. That gave him free reign to develop and enter into the final boss what he is. You turn the rock heel. Well, what happened with the Rock at WrestleMania 40 is the first time that ever made me feel like, first time I ever believed in my own hype. It's the first time I ever thought, ooh, maybe someone from this generation did get over.

You know, like, because to me, I tell my students, I tell people all the time, nobody today is over. Because you hear over all the time. And to me, over is you can't step a foot out your house without cameras, without a moment. I just have a loftier opinion of over. John Cena's over. But it's the first time I thought, oh, maybe, maybe that's happening. Line-wise, he, the only line I think he crossed was he made my, my sister Teal,

non-canon because he mentioned that I had two other siblings and that being Dustin and Kristen who are from my dad's first marriage, which is, you know, you're not wrong. I do have them and he was explaining. He's when he called me a mistake. Yeah. But he made, he made teal non-canon, and teal is like the closest I have. This is my original best friend, you know, so that was a little, I felt bad. I felt bad for her.

I feel Mama Rhodes is a person who never wanted to be ever on camera. And now has got a security guard and Heathrow Terminal Airport, you know, like she's, so if he thought that was a line that he was crossed, I feel maybe it actually backfired because she's now part of it all. He made a Cardilla weight belt with her name on it. Yes, he did. And it's in so many pictures that will live forever. he's holding it

as Manta Rosed As Undertaker is chokes So there I was looking at this the other day There's going to be action figures There's going to be I don't know if he's That belt too My blood

My actual blood is on that belt Which is a strange thing to keep Like as like a token of whatever happened But yeah he made Mama Rhodes A part of the show And I'd share this in some other interviews but I didn't really think I wanted my mom involved

and I didn't consider a line to cross because we're from a wrestling family but I just I'd always assume she wanted nothing to do with it. So like AWW for example, Arne Anderson was with me. Here's someone who's linked to Dusty but not Dusty because we can't have him. I realized after WrestleMania 40 nobody could have done the spot but her.

Like yes, She did that. Her not wanting to be part of it was what also made it like, he's not here. You got a, you got to fill in. And, uh,

and man, she did more than fill in. She, uh, she got a whole pop for herself in Scotland and stuff. So I don't think we rock crossed any lines. And I, and I feel,

uh, I feel maybe I crossed the line. I did a promo where, uh, I said he had LDS. And, and I, and I,

I've never felt. It actually, I feel like a lot of people liked the interview and got a nice round of applause when I came back to the, the curtain, but I, it felt so off brand for me because we have so many young kids that I felt like, this is, this one guy is the guy that I'm going to go to these links for. And maybe that's what makes this all click, this genuine animosity. Yeah. And like, smile at each other, but probably deeply dislike one another. If he's the one who's going to bring it out to me,

It's probably good TV, but it did feel a little, I guess, icky in the moment. Will we get a payoff for what the gift is that the Rock gave you? Do you want to know what it was? Of course. What's your guess? I don't even know. I don't know.

It's something small, right? It has to fit in your hand. So will you tell me off camera? No, I mean, I feel like maybe it's his story to tell. But here's what I'll, yeah, it is his story to tell. And he's one of your boys. Is he? So yeah, you've done red carpet interviews with...

I've done a lot of interviews with that. Yeah, I'd say he's one of your boys. He gave me parenting advice before I had my daughter. I would have liked that, but him and I ended up not liking each other. It's very important that whenever I talk about The Rock, and I feel like I've talked about him a lot. People have a lot of questions about him, things that nature. It's very important. He is my boss, which he's not on the ground as much so you don't remember, but he's my boss.

He is one of the biggest, if not the biggest name that ever came from pro wrestling. I mean, there's an argument. Some people don't even make the argument. If you're looking at your Hall Cogan's, your Austin's, Rocks, he's a Mount Rushmore wrestler. He then went on to be the biggest star in the world in terms of film in Hollywood and a modern action hero when we needed one. If Rock decided today he's going to run for president of the United States, my gosh, he would win in a landslide. He's just one of the most recognizable people on the planet. I'm sure he'll explain down the road what it was.

And I'm sure his kind of, what would you call Brian Gortz to him, extremely talented individual Brian Gortz who kept roll on track for years and years and years. But he's kind of a star scream to Rock's Megatron, you know. So I'm sure What a reference. I'm sure Brian will do some media where he puts something out there or skews the timeline.

Again, utmost respect for both of them. Elimination Chamber in Australia. You called him out for a one-on-one match. I did. Any place, any time. Yeah. Is there going to be a payoff on this?

Offer still stands. Offer still stands. And again, if he never comes back, if he never comes back, he's done it all. He really has. And as much as I insulted him previously, it was an honor to be part of his last outing. But what I learned physically in the ring with him, it shouldn't be his last outing.

There's more. There's not just gas left in the tank. There might be multiple tanks. There's more. And I would like the WWE universe or pro wrestling fans. I'd like them to see that. I think there's a world with WGB, director of the board great, but I think there's a world with WWE really benefits

and this young audience being able to connect with them. They don't know them as the people's champ. They know them as the final boss. That offer stands whenever. In the behind the curtain documentary, Triple H talks about Royal Rumble before you win it, it must have been an awful day for you when he's delivering the news. What was that day like for you?

There's a group of people who were visiting and who kept coming on my bus. And at one point, we just had to have a full, hey, I need you guys to know what's about to happen. And everyone who is in that group knows it is one of the best and worst days of my professional career. It somehow was both. If you watch closely, after I win and I kind of like hunched down over the mat, I am saying, I'm sorry. I'm saying I'm sorry multiple times and looking at people in the eye saying I'm sorry because I knew I knew pretty much to degree of based on what what triple H had told me that it probably isn't going to happen and I was as lost as I have ever been so here I am we're talking

about in my own character I had lived my life to finally find myself finally have all the utmost confidence and it was the lowest I've ever felt, but also I just won the Royal Rumble for the second time. That's a life-changing moment. How can you not appreciate that and enjoy it and feel it? But that was a very rough day. And I kind of apologized to my colleagues and peers around me because I was forgetful. I was in the ring.

I might have been a little forgetful. But I was also, I just was trying my hardest to make it seem like that means. eating had never happened, knowing it had happened. And, you know, having to look at punk in the eyes and wonder, like, do you know? And I never had this discussion with him, you know, do you know what's happening? But it was, hey, it was also, you know, I freely would discuss it because the documentary is out there and everyone's told their story and all that. But I just, it was just a very, a very tough day.

And I have great relationships with some of the top brass of W.D. be really huge respect. And it got shaken a little bit. But also, also I realize the burden, like I mentioned, this is the problem with being yourself. You can't not sell this.

You can't not hide this. Like if you were playing, you know, the astronaut character. It's a different thing. The astronaut character is winning the Royal Rumble but not wrestling in WrestleMania. In this case,

I felt like I was, I took it personally and it was a nice reminder. not to take anything personally in wrestling. And if anybody who's not, I've worked in management, I've done this, I should know that more than anybody. So I had to walk out of that room and not take it personally. So what do you credit this to? Like how did this come around?

You went from that day, knowing you're going to win the rumble, but knowing you're not going to wrestle for that championship, now it's yours. Now it's sitting here and you're the champion. What do you credit that to? Well, I feel like I was going to eventually beat Roman. for this title. I feel like that was something that was going to happen.

But like I even said, maybe not at WrestleMania. The reason it's sitting here now and the reason it went through differently is solely because of pro wrestling fans, right? Yeah, I told them and now they know the truth. I told them that night on Raw, like I had had a unique weekend and they'll never know how much I needed them. I feel like I never never say to myself that I'm doing a lot for fans. To me, it's what you're supposed to do in general.

You're supposed to give them everything you have. But it was one time where I kind of thought to myself like, man, after everything I've done, and I didn't need to feel that way because they felt that way. It was like you saw literal people mobilize like, F this, we're bringing signs. We're going to paper the crowd. Like we're going for it. Like we're not going to let this stand. And I thought, oh, that'll last for, you know, a few hours, whatever it may be.

And then by the time we got to that first roll after the handoff moment and the crowd was doing what they were doing, there was just a magic in the air. It's like I said. It's the first time I thought like, oh, okay, maybe I did do. All right. You know, maybe I, maybe I connected with them to the point where they want to see this finished and ride with me on it. And it was just, I so I credited it all too.

to pro wrestling fans. I mean, genuinely, and they're just all fans of what we do made this get there to the end. What do you remember about the photo shoot that you did for WWE magazine, 2014?

Oh, you're on the cover. Nice. Future of WWE. First of all, did you know that that's what the photo shoot was for? Yep. So we're in a V formation, right? Yeah.

They made Evan Bourne look bigger than me, which I always saw. Oh, I don't love that. I was added last minute to that photo show. But I thought it was all the champions. No, it was the future. Oh, that's right. Yeah, you're thinking the champions, the infamous champions photo.

Let's talk about the, we'll talk about that one next. But the actual cover shot. Yeah. It's just you want the cover, right? Yeah, I got at. No, no, no. No, there's one with the future WWV and it's like DeBiase, Morrison. Let's look it up.

I don't think I ever got all the world's information here. I never got a standalone cover, I don't think, early in my career. Let's see. No? You'd know better than me, right? I did have one with Ted Jr. that was on PWA, where they were debating on who was going to be next. Maybe they just, like, cropped you so we can see this. I don't know.

This sure looks like Cody Rhodes, the future of WWE. Oh, is this the cover, though? Okay. Sure looks like it. This might be the cover. I think there were variants. Okay, so one of many covers. But there's also a famous cover where.

they had like a bunch of guys they selected as these are going to be the next the next big ones and uh i was added last minute to that in a very like pity style um at at the time ted junior uh no disrespect to him that's all they were concerned about i'd even been told to my face not to bring him down he's a future champion and then one time we went and did conan o'brien and uh i got added last minute and i remember the reasoning was you know your teddy's partner Okay, thanks And yeah So it was always a situation like that

I didn't feel I thought it was really cool My mom has that magazine With all of us in the V formation Coffey's in there as well I thought it was really cool In the moment But I also

I felt like I was added And then they made Evan Bourne look bigger than me And I didn't love that But you didn't feel like I made it I didn't feel like the future of WWWRW? No I didn't feel like the future of WWWI at all I felt I mean

when you're young and doing all the dumb stuff I was doing, I feel like you some days you think like, yeah, it is going to be me. And the other days, the business is a way to beat you, and this is everywhere, beat you down, beat you down,

be doing out where it changes you, where you start to say stuff like, oh, well, I'm okay, just being the tag champ. I'm okay just being in the Royal Rumble. This is going to be one of those,

like, this is going to sound mean and it's okay if people take it as mean. When I was at AEW, a lot of times, talent would tell me, you know, I'm not interested in being world champion. And I just say something polite, move on. In my mind, I wanted to be like, get the F out. You are useless. That sounds so mean, but like, this is a competitive industry. Maybe not competitive in the ways you see it. Maybe it's

not the physical competition that it's presented as. Maybe there's other areas, but you should want the most. At least that's how my mindset is. You don't want to be the best. Yeah, like you want to be. No one goes to the Olympics and goes, I'd be okay with a bronze. Yeah, so like, I'm here. I'm good. You go, you play the game. I was the famous was Herm Edwards, but you play the game to win, you know, whatever it was. And just, uh, I think I had two degree gotten beaten down or beating myself down to

where I started to say things like, well, it's great money. Well, it's this and that. And that's just, you know something's wrong when you start talking to yourself that way or talking to your friends. And I get it. Not everybody has a fairytale ending. I get it. Sometimes hard times and life pivot.

and deviates, I totally understand that. But when it's self-deprecation, when you start to not be your biggest supporter, that's where you get in trouble. This crossroads you gave to the security guard recently. Yeah, crazy. Is that the best crossroads sell of all time? All I know about it is the kids trained at the Monster Factory, which Danny Cage at the Monster factory, I have to hear about the Monster Factory on a regular basis because

my used to be best friend. Now I'll say close friend. He's out of the best slot. QT Marshall was trained at the Monster Factory and trained people. Who slid into the best spot? Right now it's up. It's up for grabs. It's up for grabs.

Yeah. Because he's into like bodybuilding now. I could slide in there. Yeah. Get in. Wow. He's into bodybuilding now and he's doing this show that's coming up, which I sent him a box of cookies is kind of like a.

Hey, don't blow it right before. This guy. He's into bodybuilding, so like Billy guns become his guy. So Billy and I are at odds too because I, you know, like, oh, that's, you know, Billy's your boy or whatever. So he's a good friend. But I hear about the Monster Factory on a regular basis. If anything, that was a testament to the Monster Factory. Because I can tell depending by where somebody puts their hand, what they're trying to do.

Okay. I can tell. And brother, brother was, he was going for a header. And last, last person, there's been a few, but like, Babushi was somebody. I'm like, man, you're going to kill yourself here, bro. You know, like you don't have to do it that way. But yeah, it's up there. I still think the best crossroads of all time is the Shield versus the Rhodes brothers

with Seth Rollins because something about it floated. And it literally felt like it was the energy of the crowd that night in Buffalo, boom, boom, boom. And then when we hit it, we moved. Worst crossroads of all time is there. a wrestler, do you know a wrestler by the name, Our Truth? I've heard of him. Our Truth.

He was not one of the young guys that wanted to help me. We talked about how great DeVarie was to me. Truth had his own thing going on at the time. And I once gave him a crossroads and he somehow didn't bump. How was that possible? He turned his head and stood right back. Like he never left his feet. So I fell and he like did a little forehead on the mat but was still on his feet.

It's one of the most amazing feats of physicality, defies physics, defies a lot of logic and law. But I stood right up and ran out of him and he hit me with what was called pay dirt and then pin me. Didn't hook my leg. How do you tell someone to take it? You kind of cock it, right? You kind of cock it and then you roll with them. Yeah, a little leg, a little leg to the left, we go to the right. Little leaggy to the left, we go to the right.

I had a dude one time go the wrong way on it. And I screamed the F word in the ring and I got find a thousand bucks. So I was like, all right. No, we'll just tell people from in the future. How similar is Cody Rhodes to Homelander? Dude. I love. I like you're dressed a little like.

So I love the boys. I love the boys and I've loved it before it became this. We just got into it. My wife and I, the last few weeks. It's phenomenal. It's perfect for the time because you're seeing takes on superheroes like invincible and the, and the guardians and where you're seeing Deadpool, of course, we're seeing them in a different light. and the boys was one of the first in terms of graphic novels that was doing something.

Hey, that's cool, that Spider-Man comic, but check this out. I remember a guy literally explaining that to me. However, with all the love I have for the boys and his performance as Homeland or the entire cast, and their production is first class. They are, what a, what a production. The robe is not based on it. The robe is based on military dress uniforms. It's the little bit of scales, the goal, are on my bigger robe that has the eagles.

That is like, and of course the blonde hair. And I think the AEW run where people thought I'm pretending to be a good guy, but I'm actually a bad guy, which maybe was what was happening. I don't, I think that's where it really became a, he's going to go full homeland or he's going to go full homeland. Then you said it. Truthfully, Homeland. But Homelander, the character, is a terrible human being. So you're like, oh, that's a fun, that's a fun bit.

My sister, I'll read you a, I'm going to read you a tweet that my sister found the other day and pop me. DDP texts me, by the way. Hey, what's up, Daly? Hey, dude. So it was a tweet. So sorry. No, please. Ask.

This is very lofty in terms of my parallel here. It was asking Cody Rhodes. turn heel is like asking Taylor Swift to only do club gigs. Sounds cool and underground, but you'll be derailing a whole industry. Okay, obviously, Taylor Swift is the biggest and brightest and most

awesome thing on the planet. And Do you have a favorite Taylor Swift song? Style. Oh, that's mine. You got that James Dean. Yeah, style? Look in your... I heard a rumor that she was going to be Dazzler in the Deadpool.

I've also heard this rumor. So, yes. I'm hoping that's the case and if it's not the case and you're in her management fire everybody. The world is ready for that. You probably know, right? You probably know.

I've got to be the case. Anyways, moving on from that. But they're Are you saying you can't turn heel because all the kids believe in there? No, no, no. I could, I could, you can do whatever. It's just, and WWE is such a hot ticket now.

It moves on. It's great to have. have a quarterback, a great to have franchise players or top stars, whatever it might be, but it's going to move on with or without you. Someone will fill that spot. But it's not social media for pro wrestling is very important. And you'll hear people try to say it's not important. You'll hear people say they're just trolls. They're not, I think you need to know what a troll really is. This is a real person. Probably has a pretty good high paying job. This is how they release. This is their event, whatever.

This is my weird psychology or theory on trolls. But with all that said, there's a whole section, a huge section of WWB's audience that's not actively on social. They have it. They do stuff on it, but that is not their bread and butter. They're not dictated to by it, whereas some of the other independent and smaller promotions are dictated to by social. So we have to always look at it and go, we want Cody's a prime example. Is this social media or is this bigger? it only became bigger when we showed up in that arena on Monday and they started channing it in real time

that's where you know the difference between a fad between this thing and something that okay this is a wave that's far far bigger uh it could happen uh for sure i just don't see it happening and i'm not i just don't see it happening it just it feels to me a lot like why john sinna never turned to heal it's like you know how can you do the make a wishes how can you make these core memories for these kids at live events. How can you be that guy when you're a bad guy? He said something one time. I'll probably paraphrase it or screwed up.

But he said, if you want me to turn heel, then to you, I'm already a heel. And I thought, oh, he said, I don't, he was saying, like, I don't need to turn heel. If you're coming here and booing me and if you're doing the Sina sucks out of the Let's Go Sina Sina Sina, then I am your heel. And I thought that is fairly accurate. It also paints your opponent. That's how we'll know, like, is your opponent any good, or are they just your opponent? And maybe one of the things that made him in Punk's rivalry so good is punk was just on that, he was on that level.

He was in that rare air where it wasn't just let's go see in a Sina sucks. There was seeing Punk chance too. But when he said that, I thought, yeah, that's true. To some people, you are, you're already their heel. They already have decided, like the bowling thing with Pars and Reich, that some people aren't changing their minds. So to a degree, I probably am a heel to some people or a bad guy. You're just really, it seems like you're really dialed in. Like you're really hyper aware.

Like you're very self-aware of who you are and also how you're perceived. For sure. And perception is such a huge part of what we do. But I'll give you a prime example. If I'm a heel to you because I wear suits, if I am a heel to you because I wear suits and try to expand my vernacular and vocabulary, that's fine. that like I'm good that that I'm not trying to to fix because that's like real I don't know mediocre energy you know what I'm saying I'm turning heel as this interview goes on looking for

a reason and I like yeah there's going to be one he sounds like a politician when he talks and and when they said the politician thing I said great I understood you're thinking we're making promises we can't keep but all these promises and things you hear about me doing I make sure and this guy over here make sure I we we get them done. You're really good about, you'll see a tweet from someone who's like, hey, I can't, I was supposed to go to this event and I can't go. Or they said they would give me tickets and it didn't happen. Or could you sign this thing? You're so good at connecting with the fans and making those moments happen.

Why is that so important to you? Well, the original all in is the reason that I will always support social. we get in these modes where it's like, hey, it's the worst thing ever. It's a cesspool. It's all negative. We like especially as as you climb the ranks and the Pantheon entertainment and podcasting, your critics rise at the same level that your fandom rises. But because that was something that was born of social media, that was I forever had

a respect for the power and the positive side of social. hey, this one guy saying we couldn't do something, I'm going to tell you we can do it. And then they, you know, turned into a whole franchise. So I always look at it that way. I always look at it as it's worth it to make contact with that person and see if there's something that you can do and they can do.

And I have to be very, we always paint it as if it's me. Look, I did this. Like yesterday, somebody's ADA tickets. got screwed up for Scotia Bank. I flagged it. Sure, I pointed it out, but there was a lot of other people. The market reps at WWE, like Scalise. There's some amazing people, Greg Domino, who was just in here.

They make it happen. And it's very nice that they give me a little bit of the credit, cool, okay, yay. But the WWE team is really big on fan service, big time on fan service. through all of this over the last few years. You've never said anything bad about AEW. Yeah. And you've never said anything bad about your time in AEW.

Yeah, you want to change it? Say anything bad. Well, you know, why have you taken the high road? Yeah, I don't know if I consider it the high road. Maybe it is. How could I not, right? How AEW ended was terrible, really. People are going to write books later on and these stories are going to get out there.

And then it's going to be a whole new ballgame. But the actual experience and everything we did. I mean, and you're included in that. I'm in this Miami hotel, you know, and we did our interview. I was on the first episode. Yeah. So the actual. We're tracking you down backstage.

You're wearing a beige trench coat. And I'm like, am I going to have an IFB in my ear? And you're like, I don't know. Come ask me later. Great question. That's a great question. And the answer was no. Yeah, no.

The answer was during the commercial break, we're going to shove you out there and someone's going to point at you. Yeah. Good old fashioned. Just these type cues. I'm on. Okay. No, I could never, uh, you ever seen the end of the dark night? Of course.

I think that's, again, it's super convoluted and I'm not comparing myself to Batman. But there's a piece of it that's really important. To certain fans from the AW fans. them they need the story to be they didn't want me they pushed me they need he was bad he was they need that story so you're the villain they need me to be the villain that gotham needs right right i was always fine with accepting that because of the respect i have for it in the first place how difficult it was to do the original all and how unbelievable the feeling was to do double or nothing, how fortunate we were that Tony wanted to invest in this vision. And he had a vision

as well. How special Mad Nick in the BTE era and Kinney and my rivalry in New Japan, especially from a dollars and cents point, that made New Japan more money than anything they ever did. And it made Ring of Honor, I mean, Ring of Honor going through the roof at the time. So regardless of any petty squabbles or I will always have a love for it. I got to wrestle Brody Lee's final match. I got to lead people, young people, you know, behind the scenes. I'll always have a love for it. So the idea that I'm sure there's some negative stuff like, oh, this suck.

But I just don't, I just remember it lovingly. And I also knew I was leaving. I knew it was a season. I knew this isn't going to last and there's something greater for me out there. And I know that might sound negative to people, but it's not. Like that's the biggest prize in the wrestling game. If you put on boots, that's the one. And I just wanted to go get it and I had nothing but respect for my time there.

I got to sharpen my skills, you know, like Hulkomania and the AWA. Right before it came to WWE, it's the same. Like the energy was there. The renaissance was happening. It wasn't just company-based. I think they're giving us the Igies. Kids are giving us eight. But it was all there.

And I just have a love for it because I got to sharpen my skills. And by the time I got to WrestleMania in WV, I felt like, okay, I've come back a complete package. I'm in command of this is how the music goes. I'm in command of who the American nightmare is. and I can know that and understand it better than a writer or a producer. And thankfully, we have all those things. But yeah, nothing but love, nothing.

I'm trying to think of something bad to say. Nothing but love. Oh, here's one. Here's one. I got a bad. Okay. This one's juicy. Russell Purist, get ready.

I hated that in the Young Buck's book, they said I was last to the signing. because that's a big thing. Some of the A.W. Defenders who don't realize they're turning people off to their product, more than they're turning people on, that's one of the things that people always cite, oh, he was last. He wasn't that big a deal of the origin.

No, this guy here, who's off camera, was the first person to ever meet Tony. And he met him in a vetting process for all of us. So yes, I guess I was the last. And yes, I had different thoughts. and it's not incorrect at all what they said. You were physically the last person. Yeah, like it's not, sign your name.

It's not incorrect. But I was just in on it as well as anybody else. And that's a little thing that when I write in my book, I get to tell the, I get to tell, well, what would the book be called? Hmm. I mean, you could give them an easy one from undesirable to undeniable. He could give them an easy one. But also, I feel like I'm too artsy.

I'll come up with a title that just sucks. Just sucks. Yeah, so we're thinking about it. I'm thinking about doing it, though. The book, absolutely. Yeah, there was some new people in my life agency and management-wise and all that. And they mentioned writing a book. And I started to think, yeah, I have enough.

I got enough that I could put some stories together. Kurt Engel wrote a book when he was like two years into his debut career. Yeah, so, yeah, no, so I'm thinking about it. I'll be first in line to buy. Well, Becky's book was like mind-blowing in terms of how good Becky's book was. You know, so she gave me one backstage. And if you give anybody anything backstage, you're going to leave it. You're going to leave it behind.

You're going to forget it. I forgot it. She should have given you a friendship bracelet. So what I bought 20 off Amazon for my students, but I only had 19 students. So I got mine. Yeah. So it's not signed because the one she had signed for me is somewhere in the American Airlines arena.

But, yeah. I can't thank you enough for always making the time. Thank you. I feel like we didn't talk about anything. We talked about a lot of things. Good, good, all right, all right. Yeah, good, okay. Selfishly, before we wrap this up, I just want to ask,

did you give the vertibaker to Logan Paul because Shane Helms produced that match? I know Shane has been producing all of Logan's matches. Was that just a tip of the cap? I'm going to take a moment to, you mentioned Shane Helms, Chris Abyss, DeVari, Bobby Rude, the Freebird, Michael Hayes,

who's the leader, Molly Holly, Ken Dohn Who am I forgetting here Is Nick Aldous also producer? P.D. Williams. Chris Abyss. Davari. Spud.

Nick Aldous. Molly Holly. Kindone. Jamie Noble. Michael Freebird. Freebird. Listen, they're all amazing. The point I'm trying to make

is the best of the producers have ever been for WW. And Road Dog there to lead the charge. So, yeah, did I get everybody? Who am I missing? Bobby Rood. Bobby Rood. Bobby Rood.

Adam Pierce is absolutely amazing. I was a big fan of his NWA run, but I don't like to mark out for anyone, so I don't let him know. But this is the last thing I say about Bobby Rood. I love Bobby Rood. Was a big fan of Bobby Rudes. I am not always happy with Bobby Rude

because when Rock beat me half the death outside my tour bus, he's just standing there. Why Bobby Rude has a full-blown adrenalineis? You're supposed to get me off the ground, sir? but he didn't. But I do love Bobby Root. He's been a huge part of my career.

This producer crew that WWE has is, I hope they know, hey, you're living in the golden age of WV because dollars and sense wise, the company is doing the best it's ever done. They should know how important they are to that. I hope they do. Because doing this as regularly as WWB roles, you can't do it without a little bit of production, a little bit of help, a little bit of ideas. Abyss has all kinds of great ideas. Freebird Michael Hayes is a freaking jrink.

genius. Absolutely freaking genius. But with that in mind, I think it was a combination of I had done the vertebraker prior. The rules have changed. You know what I'm saying? Unless the director of the board says, you know, we can't do the vertebraker, which, you know, I wanted to bring it back, but also there was just an element of Shane being there because I stole a lot from the hurricane when I was doing Star Dust. And I never liked to admit that or anything, you know, but I did. So I just a lot of respect for him. But yeah, also, Logan being as athletic as he is. We've seen this. We've seen a couple new moves these days. I hit the Viz biz and I think A.J. Stiles hit me with a burning hammer. Yeah. All right. Yeah. A little different, you know. I'll wrap this up with the

same question I asked you at the end of the last one because gratitude is such a big part of my life. So Cody Rhodes, what are three things you're grateful for as we sit here right now? Three things I'm grateful for. The first is a healthy family. And expanding upon that, you know, I have my mom, my sister, Teal, her children, the young, the Texas outlaws, Kristen's sons, they're getting into wrestling. Dustin and his award-winning English Mastiff that's winning legit national titles, Beast. I'm thankful for a healthy family, brandy and liberty, of course, because that really has focused, like I mentioned being uncomfortable with the one interview I gave. The reason is, like, I don't want to be that to add to her.

I want her to see Papa differently. So that's number one, healthy family. Number two is, no doubt, no doubt the WWE Championship. I told you, I kind of beat myself up so much. I started to think it won't happen. This thing I always wanted, this thing that I'd be offended if someone didn't want, all this. And here we are. We're living in it.

And the third thing I'm incredibly grateful for is the opportunity to take this situation, the story that people thought, oh, it's finished. The opportunity now to remain interesting and the opportunity to present the title completely different and set a completely new standard and new tone. And that's here and now. It's taking place from this moment to, who knows, WrestleMania 41, WrestleMania 42. So the opportunity to try and get this as high as it's ever been. You're the best.

Thanks. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, man. Do you say anything controversial that later I'm going to be like, I don't know. All right, big thank you to Cody for finding the time in his very big busy schedule to do this interview with us. And thank you.

for being with us and for listening all the way until the end. I look at the analytics, so I know how many of you actually do stick around until this point. So since you are one of them and you're hearing these words right now, I appreciate you. What a great guy. I love this conversation with Cody. I've told you, I've told you a many episodes that I've been getting into collecting cards again and specifically collecting wrestling cards again. So pretty cool that I could bring that Cody Rhodes, 2000.

Topps card and get his reaction of that and just to talk about everything that's happened over this wild year that he's had. Take a screenshot and let us know that you're on this episode with us and tag us. He's at Cody Rhodes on Twitter. He's at American Nightmare Cody on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and I'll leave you with this quote from Marie Forleo. The key to success is to start before you're ready. And boy, that feels applicable to Cody and his whole story here. Be great and be grateful. We will see you on the next one. Raj Desi, who you will likely know as Jinder Mahal from his time in WWE.

He's back on the show on Thursday. His 90 days are up. What's next for the man formerly known as Jinder Mahal? We will see you on Thursday for that one. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do. With rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today.

No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

You've been warned.