Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Cody Rhodes Reacts To Fans Booing, Possible Heel Turn, WrestleMania 42, Randy Orton, John Cena

Episode Date: March 13, 2026

Cody Rhodes (@CodyRhodes) is a professional wrestler with WWE and the reigning WWE Undisputed Champion. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Atlanta, Georgia to discuss winning the WWE Championship for a third time, welcoming his new daughter Leilani Ella, reacting to hearing boos from fans, his WrestleMania 42 match against Randy Orton, not being the fan favorite at WrestleMania 41 in his match with John Cena, the Codyvator spot in their SummerSlam rematch, being slapped by Travis Scott, how the infamous Cody Splash came to be, that tables match with The Big Show, and more! Please support our sponsors: HELIX SLEEP: Flash sale! Go to https://helixsleep.com/cvv for 27% off sitewide! COZY EARTH: Go to https://cozyearth.com/CVV for up to 20% off! BEAM: Go to https://shopbeam.com/INSIGHT and use code INSIGHT for up to 40% off Beam’s Dream Powder DELETEME: Use the code INSIGHT to get 20% off your DeleteMe plan at https://joindeleteme.com/INSIGHT FACTOR: Get 50% off your first box, plus Free Breakfast for 1 Year with the code INSIGHT50OFF at https://factormeals.com/INSIGHT50OFF PURE PLANK: The future of core fitness! Use the code CVV to save 10% on Pure Plank designed by Adam Copeland & Christian: https://gopureplank.com/cvv SEAT GEEK: Use my code for 10% off your next SeatGeek order*: https://seatgeek.onelink.me/RrnK/CVV Sponsored by SeatGeek. *Restrictions apply. Max $20 discount NORDVPN: Exclusive deal! https://nordvpn.com/cvv Try it risk-free now with a 30-day money-back guarantee! PRIZEPICKS: Download the PrizePicks app today and use code INSIGHT to get $50 bonus credit in lineups after you play your first $5 lineup! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you have ever enjoyed any of these episodes, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast or Spotify? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Flee! I don't get the whole production crew like you got your podcast. I didn't want to say anything about that, but I mean, there's kind of a, the potency is in the content. You know, you can have that, but the content, you know, which they had great content, though. So. Yeah. I set up every single one of these cameras. Just hit record on all of them.

I've been told that's a bit, though, that you do. A bit? Yes, I've been told the one-man show thing is a bit. It's just to save money on travel. See, I hear that and I believe you, but I've been told that the whole thing is like a bit. I started my career at Czechs TV and Peter Rurro, Ontario, Canada as a videographer, writing, shooting, editing, and then reporting was just like the thing that was like left over.

Yeah. So I have a great appreciation for wearing all the hats. And that's why you like Steve Broadway, too. Steve, you? Come back studio. That's all everyone there has to do everything. Yeah. They have to learn to do everything.

shoot, edit. I recommend them to everybody. I haven't seen you since you became a father of two. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm ready for it. Is it different? I'm also a father of two now. Yeah, look at us. Look at us. Look at us. Four kids between the two of us. Four, I mean, what are you thinking? Are you going to have another?

I definitely not. Definitely not. Uh-huh. No, you? I think it's a hard definitely not. but also it was a definitely not we're not going to have kids then it was we had a child we had liberty and then it was definitely we're going to have like it was definitely not again no that's it one we're good and then it became how could we not yeah so so how many i mean i'm good i'm good it's not it's not in my control there i'm i'm good too is amazing but who knows yeah i know i guess i can't say definitely definitely not but yeah not when it comes to that i'm feeling like our family complete.

Yeah. Every once in a while, my wife Rachel will be like, don't you want another one? Look how cute they are. What do you say to that? I say, ah, don't you start? Yeah. Because, yes, they're very cute, but. Expensive.

There are a lot of things. I mean, yeah, there are a lot of really grand, beautiful, wonderful, positive, everything good in the universe things, but also expensive. They're the best. Yeah. The best. I think often about the phrase that I heard, one is none. when we only had one.

And I was like, what do you mean? One is none. This is so much work. This is so difficult. And now I got it. Well, I remember, I don't think you'll mind me saying this. I remember the Miz told me, he's like, so I heard maybe going to go for two. I was like, yeah.

And he said, just so you know, a lot. It's a lot. And the way he said, he never said anything negative. He just goes, it's a lot. And I thought, ah, and then, you know, you, but then once you get, so I, I, feel like, and I was just talking to my other buddy about this, once you have the routine, you have it for X amount of time, maybe three weeks, maybe two months, and then the routine is going to change.

So at that sweet spot, when you have the routine for a minute, is fun. It's pretty crazy to think of, like, you only have a six-month-a-old for that period of time. Yeah. That's it. And then the next month, they're a completely different version. Yeah. Yeah.

I was looking at, so one of my favorite memories with Liberty was when we'd put her in the sleep sacks and she was up in mobile at the time and she could talk a little bit but she was more she would more hum the Disney songs but it was during the period where we do like milk and two songs and during that period we'd hold her and she go to sleep in your arms and it didn't last long but I still have that coming with Lelani and I but the problem is I can't remember what age it was like in my mind I'm like I feel like it was six months no way because she's humming the song so it couldn't have been six months so I feel like it's more. more maybe around the year mark.

It could even be a year and a half, who knows. But it's coming, and I'm pumped about that. My gosh, Liberty's going to be five in June. I know, right? She's known nothing but WrestleMania main events. That child has known nothing. Where does it go from here? Exactly, exactly.

And now I said this in Portland after the match, because I was thinking, well, we can't just leave the people. I should say something to them. This was a significant moment we all shared, and that's what I wanted to tell them was, hey, my children have these things they can be proud of or I hope they will or they can look back at the time that they entered the world was the time that I really entered my prime as a person in sports entertainment or pro wrestling and they go hand in hand. I'm looking at the

bell right now. It still has Drew McIntyre side plates on it. It does. When do you get the American nightmare sideplates? I should have got them on Friday. I was just moving too quickly. You just Grab the title and got out the door? I did. I grabbed the title and I got a, I stayed a little bit after and I grabbed the title. It's, you know how the West Coast shows. Wrestlers love a West Coast show. Yeah.

Because they can get the red eye. I didn't make my red eye, which is why I'm wondering why I was racing out of there, but I was. I also, as much as oil and water as Drew McIntyre and me, Drew McIntyre and I, excuse me, as much as oil and water, we might be in fighting behind the scenes, fighting, in the ring, all these things. You fight a guy long enough.

I think you start to have a respect for him. You know, I saw that with a lot of my dad's opponents, with Tully, with Rick. And I've really come to, I don't know what it is. I mean, respect his skill set and his body of work for sure, but I almost want to take these off myself and give him to him. I don't know if he's ready for that right now. And I also don't want it to feel petty or condescending.

I just sincerely, a lot of times, the stuff we collect, we forget to collect it. And then 10 years from now, somebody's got your boots or you want something for your kids and you don't have it. But that might be a moment. I don't mind having them for right now, though. It still feels good. What's the prize possession in your collection? In my collection.

Yeah. Ooh. Do you have a collection? Little things. You're in there. Prize possession. Paul Bosch, which is a name you probably know, because you've become the, the wrestling guy, the podcast wrestling guy, the one.

And there's so many podcasts. So congratulations to you, by the way. Thank you. You've got copycats. You've got whole organizations doing what you do now. Got Cody Rhodes doing it. I do a podcast. I do, yeah.

The one prize possession I have, the thing I probably, I don't, I'm not very sentimental. In the basement, if you went in my basement, you'd probably be pretty excited at some of the things that are down there as a wrestling fan. Twofold. I have my dad's belt buckle from Paul Bosch, which was just a gift, a cowboy belt buckle for when he won the world title. And it's, it's back in the day of handcrafted jewelry. So it's got the TV in the corner. It's got a cauliflower ear in one. It's got two wrestlers at the bottom, and he would wear it, you know, just the same as a rodeo belt buckle. That was the thing he loved the most. And I got it. So ha-ha. That That's the one I have.

And then the other thing I cherish is I have Brody Lee, Luke Harper's last robe that he wore, the white one that he wore with me. And that one I just hold on to little Brody, obviously whenever he wants it, him and Amanda, Nolan, they can have it, but they always leave it there. And I like having it.

So those are my two I like, yeah. With everything you've done since coming back to WWE, has it occurred to you that your accomplishments have outdone your father's accomplishments in WWE? Three-time WWE champion. Three times. Two-time Royal Rumble winner, King of the Ring. Yeah.

Someone, I don't think he'd mind me sharing this. Mr. Heyman told me that. And I thought, he might be the one guy I believe it. Right? Because I don't, even when I'm by myself and doing one of these, I still don't believe that. Because I think, I think Dusty's legacy had such a final chapter that it still goes on today. I mean, they're still doing things of his today. And there's a whole fandom that will never even know they were his brainchild or something that he, like, this is a silly one.

But for example, the cage lowering with the, that's a dusty thing. These production things are still in play. I appreciate you saying it. I think I have a lot more to do. But yeah, that's really nice. I don't know if I was ready for you to be so kind. Not that you're not kind, but that's very nice. What more do you have to do?

And it's funny. I'll tell you about King of the Ring. And I really, you know, that's one, like, as a fan, I wanted that crown. and I don't ride on the WWB charters anymore coming back from Saudi because after the King of the Ring was probably the most partying I've ever done on a flight. And today it's pretty nebulous. You know, you see Damien Priest running around in an Aquaman outfit and stuff like that. But I got photos with people I don't even know.

I'm arm wrestling Santos in one photo. You don't remember this. My shirt is unbuttoned to like my navel. But all I remembered was this would have been way cooler had I had. the crown. Because I emerged from the front of the plane with a crown on, but yeah, I had a good time. I had a good time. What's the drink of choice? Well, I don't really, for a guy who does a podcast with, you know, Wheatley, American vodka, I'm always a Sazirac guy because I have a love for Sazirac. I love Pappy. I love Sazirac where I have obviously Wheatley, but I really have, it's not as,

it's not as happening as much. The time you see it is usually on the podcast, which there's there and lies the problem. If you're a non-drinker, which I'm, I think, falling into that part of my life where I'm a non-drinker, then all of a sudden you're having specialty cocktails on your podcast. It's no secret. A few of those podcasts have not made it out. There have been a few that were teased in photos, and that wasn't my guest's fault. That might be my fault. There's a few, there might be a graveyard of, of unaired. And that, That's a shame, but we're going to get them. They'll end up on the vault one day.

Maybe on the vault, yeah. Yeah, Lee Fitting and Steve Braybann and what they've done with the vault is great. Oh, it's phenomenal. You too. Man, my man, I'm about it. You can tell wrestling fans run that channel. Yes, yes. And sometimes when you have such a big corporation like WDB and TKO and everything like that,

you don't want people to be that big of a fan because their fandom sometimes can take over. But I don't mind whoever that, who's ever pushed them by. on that one, he's giving me the hits. That's the stuff I want. I did an interview with Steve Blackman. It was like the first interview he had done in some like 16 years or something. Three days later, what was on the WWE vault? His match with Shane McMahon. That's interesting. Is he, did you get the sense he could still, like he was a lethal weapon still? Oh, yeah. Yeah, most people talk about him in that haiku sense of, yes, like a lethal weapon. He runs a very successful bail bondsman business right now.

Dude, I love that. Blackman bail bonds. And so, like, as we're setting up the interview, his phone's just ringing like crazy. People need that bond money. Blackman bail bonds, right. And what, what, what jail? Okay. Where is, where is this? He's in

Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. All right. So if the boys were in trouble in Harrisburg, you call Blackmans, that's crazy. Oh, but yeah, he can still go. There was a, I love when you see wrestlers, you know, I say civilian life, but out there and the jobs, the non-wrestling jobs, you know, that's always funny. I know Greg Gagne, for example, was, you know, selling cars for years. And I can't imagine,

because Greg Gagne helped train me a little bit. I can't imagine what that was like. He had such energy and such baby-faced fire, like wrestling school 101 things you learn. I wonder if they're applied to those trades. They got to be, right? You put out a tweet about working at Einstein's bagels. Yeah. So was that your, like, only real job? before wrestling? No, I went to Einstein's. I still have a lot of love for Einstein's. You got fired from there. I got fired, but they brought me back. Why did you get fired? I got fired because it was a bunch of, I think we were 16. Yeah, a bunch of us were working behind the counter. And, you know, after the morning rush, it got a little slow. But I remember, you know,

they have a lot of cream cheese options. And there was like a strawberry cream cheese and you take the scoop or whatever. One of my buddies said something to me like condescending from the register. So I just took the cream cheese and I put it on half of everything bagel and I threw it. And it hit him like smack, like perfect movie style where it like hit him and slid down. And someone complained. And that was it for me. And then a few weeks later they were missing that energy, you know, and they called me back.

And I got that job that I know more about two places than I should ever know about Einstein's bagels and smoothie king because I worked at smoothie king too. So to this day, like smoothie king arena and New Orleans, for example, I feel like I'm connected to it. Obviously, they have no idea who I am, but I really like those jobs. They were helpful. At the time, my dad and my parent, my dad was broke, but we didn't live like we were broke. He didn't treat, you know, he still gave us everything we possibly need, but it didn't

hurt at that age to have like a little i wasn't saving up for anything either i wasn't going to college wasn't sure you know at the time thinking i'm going to go to l.a and and join this acting school that i would have needed a lot more money but it was nice it's always nice to have have your own you know you know cash that i worked lost prevention um for limited brands so not paul jones from wrestling. I'm a very nice man who was a fan of our industry named Paul Jones, civilian Paul Jones, was in charge of limited brands, loss prevention. So that's Victoria's Secret, Bath & Body Works, White Barn Candle Company Express. And it was organized retail crime was my division. So if you came in there and took something from the pink panty bar at Victoria's Secret,

I wouldn't stop you. But if you came in there and sweat the whole thing into your bag, then I would follow you to your car. I had a badge. I never caught anybody ever. I had to often go and meet with the managers and the co-managers at Victoria's Secret over the pink side of the store. And they just show me videos and we'd see if we recognize them. I was just awful at this job. Awful. But also didn't think I needed to be great because it wasn't that often it was happening.

You're in plain clothes. Every mall on the West Coast is another thing I had this odd innate knowledge of is all the malls that are from San Diego to Los Angeles. even some NorCal stuff because I was sitting there outside. I'd usually find the Barnes & Noble, and I'd go in and I'd check out different graphic novels and walk around, eat at the food court multiple times, check in with the co-managers, sit outside the store a little bit. Very little ever happened. But it was a great job, which let me pay for my Volkswagen Jetta that I had in my little

apartment on Laurel Canyon Boulevard. And I'm not mad at it. I'll say the best part of the job, though, was every now and then I would be instructed to play the briefing videos for new managers. Those videos are, they're almost like a parody of, is this considered shoplifting? I don't know, Gene. Let's roll the tape.

It's so, this wasn't that long ago. Like, they're so bad, but I liked that job a lot. I had a couple jobs like that. I was a referee at 15. I got paid $40 for shows for T-CW, which was like, a lot at 15. Yeah, no, I always wanted to work. My mom was, she will not like this story. So I'm going to try and make it kind. The only time my mother, who is very neutral and stern face, she's just stern-faced lady. You don't know if she's happy. You don't know if she's sad.

You don't know where she's at. That's what keeps you guessing. That's the mystery. She's like the Mona Lisa a little bit. You don't know what's going on in there. The only time I ever saw her genuinely mad was when I got fired that first time from Einstein's because she went in there and was she was a big time always have a job always work person you know my dad all the things he did my mom still went to nursing school and became a you know a registered nurse in georg for the er the o're same-day surgery centers she worked uh forever um you know and and she would that was an area she was not happy with me yeah that was the one yeah you've said a few times that there's a comment from our last interview that haunts you. And I'd like to bring this up.

I think it's too early. Yeah, bring it up. It might be too early. You brought it up to Bill Simmons. You brought it up in an interview with Complex. Haunts me. I meant it as a genuine compliment. Like I was saying when you were Stardust, you were so deep into that character that you were always stardust. When you had the face paint on, you were always Stardust. So I'm saying if you were so method with that character. Does the same apply here? And I'm saying that's, this is how good you are your exact question. Wasn't your exact question. Are you ever? I said, how do we know you're not in character now? How do you know? Yeah. And I think the reason it haunted me is because I didn't know the answer. It should be easy. Am I in character now? No, right? It should be easy. But is that a

lie? Maybe. Because what is what is the character? Is the character who you were, like is Cody Reynolds? Is Is there any real difference? Here's the only thing I've kind of come, because the question still haunts me and I still don't have an answer. Here's the only thing I've noticed where I know when I'm not in character. I know I am not in character when I'm around my children. That's it. That I know for sure.

I have nothing. I am not there to do anything other than be a father. That's it. So that's why I'm perplexed by the question. maybe maybe there's other times. Well, because the division's so clear, right? When Stardust had the face pain on. Just staring down your lens and I don't know why.

I got caught in. You're looking to the people. I'm Ricky Bobby in there and I'm caught in it. Yeah, no. But like when you were Stardust, you had the face paint on, it was obvious. Yeah. When you're Cody Rhodes. But see, I think you're looking at it in a bankful that you're helping me because you're

looking at on a surface level. Sure. When you ask that question, the reason why it still gives me such pause is I'm, I'm, I'm not an on the surface wrestler. I'm not. My whole genuine story is an accurate, hey, Dusty didn't get the championship. I'd like to win that for him.

It's all so real that it's a bit, I don't know, scary, I suppose. And I think it's scary to think, am I in character? I think that's a scary thing. Am I being fraudulent in this moment? Am I, right? I don't know.

Have you seen the movie X-Mocking? Yeah. Fantastic movie. Yes, very good movie. Very good movie. You know the part later on in the film when Donald Gleason's looking in the mirror and he's not sure what's real and what's not? Is that what's going on here? Man, I feel like ever since you asked that question, I always want to know when I look at, so here's a good thing, a byproduct that came from that question.

I'm in the sales business. That is the nature of what I'm in. That's what we teach in the nightmare factory. It's sales. but you don't have to be a great salesman when the product is good. And I've had great product, good product. I, the thing of most good, great salesmen don't like is a bad salesman. And I think I always want to ask myself when I'm answering a question or if I'm talking about what I do or I want to make sure,

a, A, you don't have to be a salesman, but definitely don't be a bad salesman. You know the word. The word in our industry is Carney. Carney is in some people's bloods. And I don't even look at it as a negative term. It's in some people's bloods because they came from a carnival-like upbringing. I have been so lucky and blessed to being around such great people who have helped me and got me into a position where it's like every last bit of it's out of me.

And then you have moments where like, ah, no, it's back. I don't know. I don't know. I'm really still perplexed about the question. I am not in character right now, I think. I think, yeah. You know, it's hard to believe that it's already been over a month since John Cena's final match,

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for sponsoring this episode. The United States Soccer Federation present the U.S. Soccer Podcast. My name is David Goss, and I'm joined by my co-host, Megan Clemenberg. And now we're giving people an inside look at the World Cup. I think you can feel the intensity. All the guys are wanting to really stake their claim, and they want to be on that World Cup roster. There's no doubt about it.

Hosting the World Cup on the home soil comes with its pressures, but we're just really excited just as the people are. The U.S. Soccer Podcast, presented by Hencoe, follow and listen on your favorite platform. So if the story leading into WrestleMania 40 is what you were talking about, like doing what your dad never did, finishing the story. Yeah. What was the story then the year after and the story now?

Well, the biggest thing the year after that I wanted to do was it was more of a, I had talked a lot about what a WW championship reign with me looks like. Hey, we're going to bring back the winged eagle. That took a lot and thanks to Triple H for saying, sure, yeah. Came back for a night. Is there talk of making that the belt? I don't think there was ever talk of making it the belt, but there was definitely, it was only supposed to be there for one single night. And then the next thing, you know, it's hanging above the ring at the Royal Rumble. And there's figures with it, which, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know,

You know you've done something good there, and Kevin Owens was carrying it into HQ. So I was really glad we got that. And I also, you know, this wasn't a knock on the previous run. I just, hey, there's going to be a lot of bell to bell wrestling here. I want to be defending this more frequently. And I want the matches to be a little bit less entertainment, more, a little bit more sports. Definitely both sports entertainment, but skew to the left. So here we go to France.

We've got AJ Stiles out of the gate. That's a prime example of what I wanted it to look like in terms of, what that first rain would be. Somebody just asked me a question recently as, what is this one? What is number three for you? And I wish I had an answer, but I think every wrestler,

and it's fun if you watch people who come on your podcast who talk to you so frequently, do they find their identity? Do they change? Are you talking to different characters? I think for me, at this point, the prime of my career,

I'd like it to really define who I am. I'm not so much worried about defining what the belt is to me. I'd like myself to be fully formed and fully defined. And I think I'm there, you know, as far as the American nightmare and what that is and how I feel. But I'll tell you an area that's changing is I was never a polarizing wrestler. Now I'm a polarizing wrestler. How does that make you feel? That's the thing.

I'm honored by it. I'm honored by the passion of both. sides of the coin, what I would like to do and to honor those who are so excited and those who are so not, however you'd put it, is I want to make sure that I'm not gotten to by it. Right. And I think with everything I've been through and everything in the business, you hear people say you got thick skin, I can definitely say I have thick skin now because I used to not have thick skin. Are you trying to win that section of the audience over who maybe isn't a fan of you being a champion right now or who's booing you at a show? I don't want to say no.

But there's a really great line. You watch Rick and Morty? Yeah. Where what does he say? He says something about I'm not impressed. He says something about I don't care that you boo me because I've seen what you cheered. And that is very much my approach often. And, you know, I spoke about this recently about that with the big dude from Barstool, old, old Brandon.

I spoke about that, as we know, Parks and Rec episode about bowling, where she spent so much time on the guy who was never going to vote for in the first place. And you start to, unfortunately, you do that to discount your own, like the people who are already there for you. But I don't want to be against them either, right? if that makes any sense. I think John had it perfect. And watching John, having my own skin really, really beat up and thickened up over the course of my career has made it so that I think I've got the lane I can run in and make something very entertaining for both sides of the coin.

Since you had a quote, what about this quote if I throw it back at you? What if this is the dark night? What if you either die a hero or you love long enough to see yourself become the villain? I don't know. I mean, I'm just thinking about how good of a movie that is. Oh, what a great movie. Yeah. I'm more of a Begins guy, though.

Yeah. You like Begins better than the Dark Night. I mean, I feel like Liam Neeson is... But the Dark Night has the best opening sequence in modern history, I think. It's definitely that... I think most people are going to tell you the Dark Night is the one. Also... Heath Ledger's performance?

Also, I feel like now we're... we're looking at the third one as far as Bain. I think people are now seeing how really good Bain was and not understanding it. Like the whole, do you feel in charge? Oh, there's some really great moments in that one. What was your question about that quote? Yeah.

Not about which movie of the trilogy is better. That was a nice tangent. Yeah. Is that maybe where you're at now with championship run number three? Could be. It could be. The biggest mistake I think you can make

is trying to discourage the passion is you should encourage. You should lean into all sides of it. But you're saying you hear it. Eh. I can hear it sometimes. I heard it in Vegas last year. And I heard it in Germany.

And I was in London. I'm going to hear it in Vegas again this year. And you think you're going to get booed? I like the idea of walking back into Vegas as champion because there's part of it that's a, Hey guys, it's me again. There's part of it that's that's synonymous with WrestleMania. And again, we're entering like a champagne problem in our career is, what do you do if you don't maintain them at WrestleMania?

Somebody asked me that earlier, and I said, that's a failure. And I'm looking at that thinking, that's an extreme statement. Getting on WrestleMania is a huge honor. But in my mind, I've run so hard on this treadmill, and I'm still looking around, chip on the shoulder, saying, well, I'm out working everybody there is to out work. But that's not always what matters. And I learned this on my own podcast because we're all copying you these days.

I talk to Cardona. That's an episode that will come out. But I said, it's not about just getting the points. You know, some of us, me particularly growing up was, I did this, I did this, I should get this. It's not always about that. Sometimes it's just magic. Sometimes it's just clicks.

We got guys who are kind of just bringing magic right. now that I know we're on their way. Trick Williams. I know, oh, he's on his way. Don't mess up, you know? At what point in that WrestleMania match with John Cena did you start to hear, oh my gosh, they're booing me, they're cheering him. It felt very much like our favorite match of all time, Rock Hogan. Oh, God. So good. The thing was they switched it up. I remember there's every now and then you see fans say like, well, turn it, turn the sound off when you watch it. And I might have already said this on a podcast with you previously. And I'm always thinking, what?

The sound is, the sound is it. The fans are in the ring with us. We are a live performance that interacts with our audience and plays off of what they are giving us. There is no sound off. Sorry, I feel strongly about that match. I actually, I appreciate, Bobby Rood is probably one of WVW's absolute best assets, right? You know Bobby Rood.

Of course. Of course. Remember when I said that TV station that I worked at earlier my career? That's in his hometown. Peterborough, Ontario. Shout out to Peterborough. Not St. Just Peterborough. Just Peterborough.

Oh, Peterborough. But Bobby Rood has a couple times come up to me and said, hey, it's going to be an away game. And that was because they show us now, we love doing these arrivals, love doing these arrivals. Here's everybody arriving. I actually don't mind it because I could sit right there and go, okay, great. It's going to be one thing in Louisville. Kentucky, it might be a different thing in Las Vegas. And somebody said something to me recently, because you talk about, I don't know,

villains is the term. Some people might think that's who I already am. It might be that for them. I might not need to do any more. And they might think, no, he's a bad guy. I'm booing him. Or he's a good guy. I'm cheering him.

Somebody said something, and they said it to me in a condescending fashion. They said it as an insult, but I didn't take it as such. Was they called me golden boy? And I loved it. Here's why I loved it. If you're new to the game and you're watching now, I think you can get away with saying that. If you have followed this for more than five years or more than 10,

you know that's not how it started. So I'm not mad at that little statement. You know that I wasn't even able to walk down the ramp at my first WrestleMania. We went side ramp for the battle royal. That's a denotation and a little nickname. that I did not take in a negative fashion, even though it was delivered as such. At what point during that WrestleMania 41 match

did you start to hear the crowd was not on your side? Probably, I mean, I think it's the difference between hearing them. Stadiums are always tough to hear because that noise does go up. It's the difference between hearing them, and the best way to put is feeling them. I started feeling them, oh, like feeling them in my rib cage, really,

on the old school intros. And I love that. They're there for a fight. You get the classic when Michael Cole or Joe Test or Stu or Corey or when any of these guys can say a big fight feel and it actually is a big fight field, that's amazing. You'll get that with both WrestleMania main events this year. John Cena talked about how the match that you guys did at SummerSlam had to be different, had to deliver because the WrestleMania match he felt didn't. Yeah. How did you put that match together at SummerSlam?

Did he tell you? Is that why you're asking? No. Oh. He didn't. Well, I never was won. to get mad or get in my feelings over WrestleMania 41 because it was part of a larger story, that is a hard sell, though, for a WrestleMania, especially when the year before you had the

completion of over several decades of a journey and you're involving a 10-year mania, you're involving luminaries and legends, and it's a feeling that's good, a good feeling, as Sean Michaels will say the good stuff. So when you go into 41 and you're doing one-fourth of your story and you know your story goes all the way to SummerSlam, I never was not committed and I never doubted John. And I hope he knows that because he often, I know he talks about this match. So I feel comfortable talking about it, but I never doubted,

hey, well, this is what we're doing now and this is what we're going to do then. This is what we're going to do when we get to SummerSlam. You asked how we put it together. I have a really great photo of how we put it together. In the most old school fashion ever, he wanted to have a cigar where he was staying in New York. And this was the night before. And I figured I like cigars.

It is one of my favorite things, maybe the most Cuban thing about me. And I went there, and I realized with a, you know, after like dinner and stuff, maybe an hour in, that we were talking about tomorrow. But we were just talking about it differently than you talk about it at the ringside area. We were talking about it. Then we would talk about something else.

And then we'd slip back into it. And it was the most, I think, I've ever focused in my mind. Because once we go past something, I don't want to forget it. Remember that idea? I don't want to forget it. So I ended up going to my hotel that night and I had it all. I had everything. And I kept making sure, and I think I was telling Brandy.

And I was like making sure I had it. I had what we had talked about because with an old school guy like him, you may actually go out there the next night without seeing each other, which is wild in 2025, 26. That's wild. But with John, that was a possibility. He could have just yelled his whole version of it, or I could have yelled my whole version.

But that was a really special moment because I got a lot of pictures from it. I didn't share any, except maybe one of us signing at the tables, but I got to be with my friend at the end, and I got to not just be with my friend, but I got to have the responsibility that I think anyone in the business would want. I got the responsibility of being booed in Vegas. I got that responsibility of being the one who can survive. Hey, yeah, this could be, you may not be the hot thing right now, but if you're going to be QB1, you have to be able to survive. and I got to be able to be in there with the guy who survived more encounters than anybody in our business with split crowds, four-him crowds, and hostile crowds.

How did you guys come up with the Cody Vader? With John Cena coming up, you're on his shoulders. What a spot. I don't want to say whose idea it was, but I can say this. There's a guy backstage who runs guerrilla. Shout out to him. Tamario. Do you know to Mario?

Love him. Tamario does not like the Cody Vader. I like that he calls it the Cody Vader because we could easily. just call it a lift like it's you know denoted in a production budget but he doesn't like the Cody Vader because the Cody Vader is pretty expensive and if we're only going to use it for me to come up

and then it's I prefer it's only me but I joked with him a lot that hey look dude we're getting bang for your buck here two uses of the Cody Vader and it made him feel better about the use of it that night so yeah that was a

I'll go ahead and credit Triple H for that one because I don't want to, yeah, Triple H. Easiest one to credit for it. But that was fun. Also, you can tell how strong a man really is when you're going at a tiny incremental pace and the floor is lifting you and you still had me

and I think wanted to carry me 70 yards, but didn't need to. You can fall off your shoulders at a certain point. He's still got it. John certainly all the functional strength and you've seen all the hard knocks videos and all that, that's never going to go away. July 23rd, 2007, you had your television debut.

Oh, yeah. Monday Night Raw. And your opponent was Randy Orrin. This is going to, have you ever seen Parks and Rec, by the way? Bits and Pieces. Okay, there's a great, I've been quoting Parks and Recs a lot. But there's a great scene where the guy goes to talk about Twilight to Leslie Knope, and he starts with the birth of the author.

And she goes, oh, oh, you're going all the way back, all the way, yeah. So when you said that, I'm thinking, dang, we're going back. It's full circle, right? 2007, what happened? You wrestled Randy Orton in your debut. I did. Full circle. Two weeks before, a week before, he'd slap my dad backstage.

And then, yeah, and Corpus Christi. Corpus Christi, green trunks, yellow boots, white undertrunks, which was a choice, bad choice at that. That was the gear I had at OVW, and that wasn't when you had six weeks in creative services to get you ready. Also, I was never going to be a six weeks in creative services guy. I was a legacy and I was I was going to it was going to be trialled by fire for me. What do you remember about wrestling Randy that night?

I remember having a sense of all about the guy who I really enjoyed his, you know, I liked what he had done as the youngest world heavyweight champion. I was very inspired by him as a third generation or just another child of nepotism, you know, big breaking into the industry. I had a sense of awe about me, but I also had this really large amount of confidence because I knew I wasn't ready to wrestle Randy Orden, but they had booked me to wrestle Randy Orden. So my thought was, I'm going to get to grow up in front of this audience. I am, again, I said I'm not a creative services guy. I'm not, I was going to be sink or swim, sink or swim, trial by fire. and I just needed a few things to go right in that match to be able to buy myself more time

to carry on and I think it was a missile drop kick is what I hit for like you know I don't want to say false finish but maybe a little bit of a false finish and that alone I was able to buy myself some more time to earn Randy's respect get Randy where he needed to go that's another thing about where he was heading and I was part of that you know he was heading towards a bull rope match with my father the all shifted really quickly to I liked how he carried himself and he was, you know, prickly back then,

but I liked how he carried himself because he took the lessons he got from all the guys who brought him in and he started to kind of hard push them on the people that were going to be in his orbit. Gosh, you asked me what I thought. I wish I could be back in my shoes because I'd also never been on T-E. TV. You know, I'd done the Hall of Fame, but I'd never been on Monday Night Raw. I never, that alone was going to change my life. I mean, I remember, I landed, and none of the collectors came up to me, and the next morning I left, and all the collectors came up to me,

and they had pictures already, and I thought, well, I'm famous. It's a silly thing to think, but that's how the power of TV is unlike anything else. It still is, really, and that my life change changes. I have a match with a guy who I admire and respect and want to model part of my career after. And here we are now. And I can tell you that wrestling him at WrestleMania almost feels like it's never happened before, which is crazy because we have wrestled before. Yeah. We have wrestled before. But it feels like it's a first time match ever, just like it was with John last year. And it's also crazy to me. And it's just kind of dawning on me as we're sitting here, as often happens in chats with you. John Cena, the angel.

on my shoulder who I drive around and want to learn everything from and do things his way. And then Randy Orton, who's the other piece on the other shoulder, giving different advice. And both advices were to serve you, both levels of wisdom. And to be going back to back again, that's why I kind of welcome the pain coming into Vegas is because the fact that I got to Russell John at his last WrestleMania. And now I'm going to wrestle Randy Orden returning to the main event. And I'm the one who's been the incumbent main event guy

for the last four years. That's... Maybe you were right. Maybe I'd done a couple things. Randy Orton put this tweet out in April of 2011. This has been popping up recently. Okay. Cody Rhodes has improved 10 times since the last time I've been in the ring with him.

Yes, I see him as a future champion. 2011. well he was right it just took just took him a while right like took me a while um gosh it i almost want to apologize for not to not to randy but i'm too randy i want to apologize to so many guys for how long it took me it really did but i i got to bake longer than i think any wrestler ever and we hit some big milestones along the way that's why i don't really think of it as you know, a legacy or, but it's been that, that Randy match, I'm 21 and basically 20 years ago. And when you think about this WrestleMania, it marks four years since you returned to

WWE. Ah. Did you have goals when you signed a comeback for WrestleMania 38? Yes, I had, this was the goal. Winning the WW championship was the goal. But I say that in such a two-dimensional way because I signed, I knew I was going to wrestle Seth, and I knew I was going to have a promo on Monday. Those are the only two things I knew about my return. I'm going to wrestle Seth, I have a promo Monday. And I had told them in the meeting Bruce and Vince. I told them, I told Bruce and Vince both that I don't really want any help with the promo. I'm definitely not going to go rogue or anything, but let me do this one. Let me do this one by myself. And I don't mind someone helping me with it, but I don't want like a lot of hands-on

with it. And Bruce asked me a few nights before WrestleMania. He's like, hey, do you have your Monday? Because it's going to come quick. I did. Those, that was the mission statement for winning the WWE championship and why winning the WWE championship, why I'd come back. I could never have imagined what the goals would become. This WrestleMania with Randy Orton, does this one feel so much different than all the other WrestleMania as you've made of ended? I would say it's very

champagne problems. And this is a conversation that's been brought up a lot as far as what would I have done and I not won the championship back from Drew, right? I don't know. And I think it's a bit scary to me because, okay, WrestleMania 39 main event, SOFI sets a record. WrestleMania 40, two main events, you know, right there where my Eagles played sets records.

than last year, Allegiance Stadium, I don't know. I wish I had a plan B. I would have come up with one, and I would have been motivated, and this place certainly gets all of me, so I would have been able to dig in. But I think looking at WrestleMania this year, and I said it, and I said it incorrectly, I said sleeper mania, which would imply that people are sleeping on it,

and that's not what I meant. What I think you're going to get from this year's WrestleMania is you have two main events. with Roman and punk for the World Heavyweight Championship and myself and Randy and the show that's filling out with Stephanie and Liv and the show that you're seeing kind of come together because these matches are starting to become obvious

what they are. I think bell to bell, you're going to get one of the better manias ever, bell to bell. And I really, really like being part of that WrestleMania. And WWE has turned it up with these fan experiences. Like, I stood in the ring last year. I don't love that.

On location. I love that. You don't love that. I don't love that you got in the ring. Were you okay, though? Did you jump up and down? I stood there, took a photo, and they were like, next. This is On location did this?

On location. That's actually really cool. Incredible. Do you know what On Location does for me? So I love on location. I saw that you were doing a- Bus tour. Yeah, the bus tour?

It's the best thing ever. So I did the bus tour. I'm going to do it again this year. Oh my gosh. You also did the, you were showing everyone all the props, the warehouse tour? Warehouse tour. Sean got to do that. Yes, bus tour.

Yes. I think a couple new ones are being brought. Bus tour I love because if you're like a kid who is into wrestling or just into maybe you're in like a little nightmare, you're into the American nightmare or stuff, for whatever reason you're going to sit on the bus and learn all about WCW from the early 90s information you probably didn't want to have. I'll probably do sneak peek in my gear,

which was what I did last year and they were so cool. Everyone who came on the bus was awesome. I'm also potentially doing something Wednesday at a cigar bar, which would be really fun. and again on location, like a special intimate thing for people who get there early. So those are two that I love, a warehouse tour. And I believe we're going to do something with somebody wanting to be on the podcast, wanting to be on what do you want to talk about?

They're going to be a guest on your podcast. Yeah, I believe so. Yeah. Wow. Again, they're going to need a lot of knowledge of early 90s WCW. You're going to be the one asking them the question. I know. Yeah, no.

I'm not as good at, as I'm not as good in the interview flow as you. But I do try. I try to have a conversation with people. You're great at that. Because the stories just flow. You get stories on your show that I would never get on my show. Like what? Because it's you hanging out with your friends.

Yeah. A lot of times I'm meeting someone two minutes before we hit record. And I've got to try to win them over over the course of the interview. I saw you interviewed Mark Marrow. Yes. Oh, man. I feel like he's probably one of your better interviews. He was fantastic.

Yeah. He's so positive. That guy's lived a life. Has he? What a great baby face. Amazing. Why aren't we doing the bad blaster anymore? Right?

The Sina did it one year. We, like, shot, like, confetti. I also love how he did his shooting Star Press because he would tuck in. Yeah. It's a big body for a shooting Star Press. Yes. It's a big body. But thank you.

That was a fun one. Yeah, I feel like those are the – I enjoy the ones that aren't always the – Like, I saw you heavily promote somebody recently, and I thought, why is he going so in on this person? Like, I'm not going to name who. But you were, like, you were, like, so beating the drum on it. And I'm thinking, like – This is cool.

I now think it's less cool that he's promoted it. I think Chris is a bigger star than this guy. But anyways, but then you do like the Mark Merrill one. I'm like, those are the stories I want. That's what I'm, I'm interested in that. I think what you're, so we put out eight to 10 to 22, if it's John Cena, maybe 50 clips for an episode. Yeah.

I think we're just, your clips are, they can be the death of some talent. In what way? Remember when we had that great conversation at that youth center and then I thought, great pod, didn't say anything dumb. And then the clips that come out, I'm thinking, oh, no, I did say that. It's the nature of media today. It's the nature, if you're going to do what we're doing today. And I have, I did an interview.

We're doing an interview now. We got another one coming up. We did one earlier. If you're going to do it, don't get hot when something is taken. I don't want to say out of context because you might have said that. But outside of the conversation, it's always different. For me, the worst is I joke all the time. Yeah.

I joke all the time. and then it will be outside the conversation, or they take it and treat it as if you said as absolute fact. The other day I said something about, oh, people check their phones after their matches. Every wrestler checks their phone. I was obviously being way too heavy-handed. And then I saw one of my favorite articles that said,

Cody reveals secret about all wrestlers. I thought, dang, man, like, that's, I don't know if you needed a word it that way, you know what I mean, but that's part of it. That is the nature of doing media, as you might not always like everything you, hear back. So I think my clips just happen to hit your algorithm for that one. Dude, algorithm's everything too. I don't know if I'm going hard or harder for some interviews.

My, uh, my X algorithm is all positive because I only respond to positive stuff in half the last few years. However, I'm aware that it's not always all positive about there. It's, it's rough. But I know that because certain talent will reach out and be like, hey, how you doing? And then I realize, oh, is it a bad day for me? Is that, did I, this I'm bad? And I, because they're seeing it. So you can change it. You know, you can change your, if you, if you lean into that positivity, you can change it. That's a tough one to change, though. You said on X recently that you were patiently waiting for someone to ask you about your splash. I did. Oh, I did. No. Oh, yeah. I regret saying it because now you're asking about it, right? I'm the person.

What's the story behind the Cody Splash? Well, a couple things. People love to watch the table get broken, okay? There's only so many ways you can break a table. I don't like setting a table up in the corner. I think that's lame. You got to break the table. You got to break the actual table. So the legs need to be down. Legs need to be down, right? We were scrambling for something to do in a contract signing at some point in my career. And I thought, hey, why don't I just splash you off the top rope and keep the pin in the contract in my hand? There's something fun about that. Plus, people love a table breaking. They're chanting we want tables. By God, give them the tables. then what would come of it is on the live events, which are no longer intimate and just for that crowd,

because people will film something they saw that night and it's out there, my splash from the live events started to make it out. And that is just a prime example of you don't always see your age, and then maybe you see your age. So I think I'm at the prime of my career. I think I'm psychologically the best I've ever been. And as an athlete, believe it or not, even with that splash, I feel like I'm the best I've ever been. However, I have committed to the idea of the splash. is a non-jump splash. It's a fall splash. And I like to get straight as a board.

I like to really get out like a tree frog being flung from a tree. And the one overseas in Germany was so high up. The idea that I would jump is insane. So now we just call it a TV lovingly the new jack splash, where I just fall. So there's no splash involved. It's just going to be a fall. But yeah, it started as the idea. people love a table and I didn't want to let's do this at this contract sign what could we do

oh we could do this and then we could grab your hand and it would be a thing but it's developed into the new jack splash and I have no shame with it at all because people do seem to enjoy it they do I'm not trying that's not that is not a showcase of my athleticism that's not the one I would put my hat on athleticism over this is just my splash and how I do it and it's become part of my repertoire now so you know if I go up there it's don't Don't expect me to jump. I'll be falling. How badly were you hurt after Elimination Chamber last year in Toronto?

How badly did Travis Scott hurt you? Travis Scott did not hurt me. It looks like he hurt me. I took a photo with Travis Scott at the OBB studio event, and I never saw that photo. I wish I had, I like Travis Scott. I think it's safe to say at this point. I like Travis Scott.

I like that he lended us his time and that we had moments with him. them. I mean, he took a crossroads. Most people just remember the slap. And I'm going to be on this side of history with it. I know it wasn't everyone's favorite thing. That is not the hardest I've ever been slapped. That's number three. That's number three. You want to tell us one and two? I'll give you the list of slaps. Okay. Number two, Bob Hawley in London. I think he says, fire up out there, kid. And I think, I don't want to say something nefarious that gets anyone in trouble. I think someone told him to try and knock me out.

Because the way he slapped me was trying to knock a man out. It didn't. I have a decent little jaw, so I took said splash. The number one might shock you. But I felt it in both of my heels. I felt it in my feet. I had to plant my feet. It was so hard.

Natty Nighthart. Natty Nighthart hit me. It felt like an MLB batter swinging the bat, and I walked into it. she leveled me. So Natty's one, hardcore Holly, two, Travis Scott, I'd say maybe three. But was that a legit black eye from Travis Scott? I'm going to say that John Cena and the Rock gave me the black eye, and Travis Scott was there as well.

So the three of them gave me the black eye and the perforated eardrum. And also it runs. If you get anything up here, right? So if I, like, dot you up here, it's going to run. Goes down your faces. Yeah. Yes. Some people are quick healers, too.

I'm like a real yellowy, gross healer where it just takes forever. So yeah, yeah, it was not the worst slap I ever got. And he took a great crossroads. When you pop your eardrum, that takes a while too. Yeah, you know what they tell you not to do when you pop your eardrum? Fly. Well, flying is something that I have to do all the time. So you're just kind of, but don't get underwater.

CM Punk gave me that advice. And that literally, if you, like, dipped your head in a bathtub with a perforated eardrum, it turns you upside down. It's full-blown, vertigo, everything. It's terrifying, yeah. The eardrums are no joke. It's full circle that you moved to L.A. to chase the dream of being an actor.

Yeah. All it took for you to get acting roles is just becoming WWE champion. Isn't that something? That's it. I'll say something about the world out there that I really like now. When you go on general meetings

and you haven't done anything or you just don't have a lot of body of work yet, they're not as fun. You're in like a sales mode. and now you get to go on general meetings. Most of the time they want to ask you about wrestling. And they want to ask you about different wrestlers you worked with who maybe they worked with. And it's fun.

They may know in the first five minutes, we're not going to ever hire this guy for a job. Or they might think, oh, he could be good for this. Let's keep him in mind. I really like going on them now. I do.

I also break a rule. So if you ever asked me at a meeting, can I get you anything? I always ask for something. You're not supposed to say anything. Like water is really it. I'll be like, yeah.

latte. You're supposed to ask for something specific, right? No, I just ask for something so that you can see the person at the door like, uh, okay. And they're not supposed to do this. They bring it back like 15 minutes into the meeting. Like yeah, but yeah, I always, I'm always feeling myself when I go into those things because they're fun. Yeah. You get to talk to somebody who's out there telling stories and creating stuff. And there's no stakes in those yet. You're not talking about a specific role or anything like that. You're just chatting. So I really, really enjoy those. How much can you tell us about becoming guile? I mean, in my mind, like Green Day. time of your life is playing.

I had so much fun. Do you have any scenes with Roman? We actually, I'm going to tell you something, we had one day on set, and the way the set was, and he could probably reiterate this, I think they thought we were going to fight or have issue.

For real. Because they were very cognizant on the radios of stepping out with Gile, Akuma will be coming on. They were very cognizant of we would not cross paths. And we did because I had to tell him

the direction of one of the trailers. And that was our only moment and it was a very awkward like the weirdest that's a crazy relationship. I had nothing from admiration for what he's done and accomplished.

But that is a, I don't know what it is. I don't know. I don't even like talking about it because I don't know what it is. It's just a very strange relationship. but

with Joe. We cross-bath. Not with Roman Rains. I don't know if there's a difference. And the same as me. Ask him that damn question. You have the same name at least. You know,

yeah. But I can tell you from what I saw of his fight, if he has a fight, I can tell you what I saw was really special. And I think fans of street fighter, Katow Sakurai,

put something really special together. And when you have an Andrew Schultz a 50 cent, Cody Rhodes, Roman Rains, Orville Peck, gosh, Vigit. When you have all these

fun, unique characters. And then you have Noah Centineo, you have Koji, you have Kalina. As the heart of the movie, it really gave us a great ensemble that we could have fun. We could not goof around, but we could try things

and Katow was all about trying things. We could move in ways that we felt the characters, especially from watching, they had a full console, a cabinet on set with every street fighter on it, which was custom made

because the Alpha series and the World War, it's all different. had everyone on one cabinet. The director, the game came down, the modern shepherd of the franchise. I mean, the Capcom Cup is going on right now. I think people who grew up loving the game, which I grew up loving the game, and I loved the original movie.

Not ironically, I actually loved it. I think they're going to be very pleased with the fan service the movie does and how it honors the characters. Hey, that looks like Gile. That looks like Chunli. Zangif is going to do something that you see Zangif do. The electricity. I'm not, well, you're talking about Blanca.

Yeah, yeah, which is a whole other situation. Is there, I mean, Katow did it really... Your hair looks fantastic. Yeah, I didn't like that the other guy, so they made two. It's yak hair. I don't know if that's a big spoiler. It never moved. It's essentially was if you got into a fighter jet and you flew as, you know,

I don't know if you've seen the anime in the 90s where Giles shows up and his hair is perfect. I believe the idea was that is from the wind and the G's. Who knows? Or maybe it's just him style in it with the comb, which the comb is present on set as well. But they had one other wig made for a stand-in. It wasn't made to the beautiful effect of the main one, of your hero wig. So I ended up being, say, in the very back of that shot where you would never know it's me, I had to be there because of the hair, because the hair was such a signature.

an iconic piece. But I think fans are gonna really, really like what they did. I'm excited. I had the best time ever, and that cast is amazing. I think a couple of them, you'll see them at WrestleMania. I was really just proud to be part of it. And I hope there's more. I really do. If you look at what Batista did with Guardians and you look obviously what the final boss has done, John, I came on that set, and I think probably any other wrestler has to come on set, ready to go, and come correct now, because John has set a bar where he's early for everything. He's last to leave. His wit and his improv is phenomenal.

He remembers everyone who interviews him. All the things John would teach us growing up are growing up in the business, you have to apply it now because they've had him. So you can't be, you know, slacking off when you're the wrestler on set. And this movie had three wrestlers. So, yeah. I can't wait to see it. Yeah.

How long had you been waiting to use that Rahim line in a promo? It came up randomly. I was never, ever going to touch it ever, as I probably shouldn't. I was never going to touch it. I felt like, I think I've kind of expressed this. I felt like there was this natural, sometimes people watch the show and they're watching and they're just entertained and they don't tweet about it and they don't post about it. Other times there's people who are watching more from the, they're deeply invested,

and they're invested in the behind-the-scenes nature of it, and we have unreal. This is all our own design, right? And I think there was some more on the latter side who thought, oh, he's got to reply to what CM Punk and Roman had said about the WWE championship or about the A show. He's got to reply to that. I wanted to make it very clear I was not going to be replying to that. I'm not going to spend my time heading towards WrestleMania in Allegiance Stadium

talking seriously about that. So that was my way around it. Hey, if we're going to make this measuring contest, well, I didn't get this nickname. No reason. And I stand by it. I stand by what I said. I stand by it.

I am actually glad, though, because we could have kept going. As far as the next thing you know, punk could be out there. Well, that's not what we needed. I needed a one and done on this little bit. And here's something funny about it, though. I chose to say that on the night that I debuted a youth kids t-shirt. I am wearing the kids' t-shirt when I said it. So my hypocrisy was on full display.

The first time ever, W.W.B. said this is this youth only line because we had a lot of kids who wanted the nightmares of stuff and not, like, the skulls and not so I needed to wear it. But that also was the night I said that. So again, my hypocrisy on full display. I'm a complicated man. So I'm complicated. You've mentioned so many times during this conversation that you feel like, you're in the prime of your career, which is so ironic. You brought up that splash, and now I'm like, maybe not. It's ironic because years ago you said you were done at 40.

Yeah, that obviously changed. So, like, interesting that now you sit here at 40 going, this is actually my prime. Yeah. How much longer do you think you want to do this? I don't have a number on it anymore. I know that the last, you know, the next deal I do will be my last, as far as a full-time wrestler. I think I want You know sometimes when you take things

And I think I'm doing this right now And you use them to your advantage Where you're like I need to do this for this But really it might be for you We talked about Liberty earlier She's known nothing but WrestleMania main events She literally thinks what I do for a living Is WrestleMania.

That's what I do for a living. Lailani's only six months old. So in my mind, I owe her a few more of these. I love that's silly that's me doing it for me or maybe it is a little bit of both I'll know I'll know and I you know who else will know the audience they'll know the kid what are the kids say I don't even know if the kids say this anymore washed I'll know because your mind is your greatest asset as a pro wrestler I was a big Hogan fan through every era but if you look back at Hogan in black and white Hollywood Hogan master just up here in terms of the psychology of a live audience and what they came to play with. And my dad said someone on commentary once, I mean, absolutely like pulled my heart into my stomach. It just hit me so hard.

But he was talking about Hogan, and this is in the middle of like deep K-Fabe. He's talking about Hogan. He said, no man has captured the imagination of the audience like that guy. And I thought, ooh, that's what I want to do. They came here for something. And if they're booing, they came here to boo. If they're cheering, they came here. I want to capture their imagination the best I can.

And when you have the experience I have, and again, got to wrestle my angel on my shoulder last year. And John Cena, get to wrestle the devil on my shoulder this year in Randy Orden. If I can't do anything with that, well, then I'm a real dick. You know what I'm saying? I'm sorry. If I can't do anything with that, then I'm selfish. Then I'm not here to give back to the industry.

So I need to do that as well. But you'll know. You'll know. These interviews will, you'll not want this interview anymore. That's not true. You know what I'm saying? You'll say wait till he's done. No.

Right? So it can be like the Mark Morrow style interview, you know? Those are good too. When did you start feeling like you were the top guy? I don't feel like I'm the top guy. What are you talking about? It's helpful that I'm friends, I'm front center on everything. And it's helpful that my.

appears, that's what makes you feel like you are. You're also the guy who you do so much behind the scenes that people don't see. Yeah. You show up early. You're signing all the 8 by 10s. You're doing the make a wish. A lot of stuff that's not publicized. You're doing it because that's what a top guy does.

I think that's, yes, but you can't just do it. You have to do it well. And that's the thing that when I spoke with Cardona recently, I really figured out as far as, we got to stop having this chip on our shoulder about, well, I did the most, reps. I should be no. Sometimes it's about the actual content you deliver. Yes, if you can check every box and you can be Hermione Granger, try hard like I am. Yes, great, but also in the moment when the red lights on, deliver. What makes me feel like that, the QB1 is when my peers say it. When that person said the golden boy thing and thought they were shooting on me, I never felt happier in my life

to hear that. I was a job guy here 15 years ago. A job guy. I looked up at the lights. I'm saying that way too intensely, but I'm very glad that you think that now, and I hope I can continue to do that until the next person comes along and does the same thing that I did with John. That wasn't a matter of, please pass me the torch. That was a matter of, I have to rip it from your hands, because that's the only way you're going to go down. What's the main lesson you think you took from John Sina and working with him and traveling with him? I think it's the same lesson I got from a Monday one, but I think it's harder. It sounds basic and it sounds, huh, well, everyone does that, but they really don't. And this is the biggest thing. Listen to the audience. Listen to every piece of it.

the cheers, the booze, the likes, the dislikes, the every piece of it. Listen to the audience and be honest with yourself. Your character doesn't always have to be honest with itself. But again, we're talking about looking in the mirror in that moment. Be honest with yourself as a performer as what can you do that night to capture their imagination. But he was a listener. I mean, I don't know if you can hear him. He's a spot where he yells at me at SummerSlam because I'm covering his ears with my arm

while he's about to attitude adjust me through a table. I don't necessarily care so much about your ears. I'm the one falling through the table, sir, but he always had to have them open. And I appreciated that. I mean, more than anybody, I'll listen to the audience guy and just special. I was very lucky to have that.

I think this situation is very different going in there with Randy, but that's the number one thing. Listen to the audience. If a main thing is listen to the audience, and you're hearing them. Yeah, right? And depends on what city you're in. but sometimes there's booze.

Do you lean into that? Sometimes. That's a good question. Because leaning in looks differently than some people think. Leaning in, there's a difference between leaning in. Who do you lean into?

Do you lean into being a heel when you're a baby face? Or do you lean into being more you? Or do you do the thing that they don't understand because they're not in wrestling and they're watching wrestling, but they understand it when they see it.

do you lean in to, hey, they are into that. Let's highlight that. Let's give them. It doesn't mean less of me. It means more of that. I watched you do that in London. I was there. What did I do?

The crowd was booing you. It was London? Yes. England? Yes. They gave me a blue Peter badge over there. Oh, I know what you're talking about. Recently.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I thought this was like on the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you brought it back around by talking about, and this is a city that deserves WrestleMania. and like, that's a little cheap on my part. A little cheap. Yeah.

And then you talked about like, you know, before coming back to WWE, you wrestle like, you name the name of the company that you work. Culture. Yes. Yeah, we put them out of business. Yeah. They were paying us so much. Maybe that's leaning in more to just you the person.

Is that what you're talking about? Like, I know. Yeah, I think, I think that that one wasn't like, let me trick them. That one was, it would be nice if they can understand me by the end, right? And they were cheering. you by the end. It'll be nice if they can understand me by the end. Also, the guys who trained me, Al Snow, he was pretty much right about everything when he trained me, but context creates a situation. So if they're booing you because they like the guy you're wrestling,

that is different than if you're just standing out there and they just hate you, right? And there's no wrong to that. Too many wrestlers today get in their feelings on, well, they shouldn't do this. They shouldn't, they're fans. As long as they're, as they're ethically and morally within the bounds, they should have fun. Let's not take away their fun. I don't need a three-page code of conduct to play on the Titan Tron before we start a show. Let's have a good time here. And let's help them have a good time. Thank you for making this happen. Yeah. Congratulations on the new addition of the family. Thank you. Congrats on the podcast. Yeah, we're just, yeah, thank you so much. I was going to say some condescending.

You have to come on the podcast, right? Because you've been making your way around. How do you feel when you go on other people's podcast. It's fun. It's interesting. I don't think a lot of people get to hear my story. Yeah. Which I'm not saying

it's entertaining or interesting, but like... But it is. I think in a conversation like this, you talk like 85% of the time and I throw in a few things 15% of the time. Well, you should get a bonus question

because you took so long setting up. It did take a long time to set up. Yeah, you took so long setting up. So you should... Okay. Can I ask you something I've always want to ask you about? It's a bonus question.

The tables match with big show. Yeah. where he steps through the table on the outside. What was supposed to happen in that match? That was it. That is supposed to happen, yes. That is supposed to happen. Because the look on his face, and he's such a great performer.

The look on his face sells it perfectly. Yeah, that's what was supposed to happen. It almost didn't happen because I did a disaster kickoff the table in the corner, and it did a slight like that, and I realized, oh, this was so dumb. I could have reversed the finish because I tried to do the same thing he's about doing a second. that 100% is the thing that's supposed to happen. I don't mind if people don't believe that. And I don't mind if people are still caught up in the suspension of disbelief,

but that is it. And his face is accurate because that happened to him frequently with chairs. I was in the big texting with him in Amarillo when he sat in a chair at the end of the table, and it exploded. And now you have to get off the ground. Now they have to get you another chair. It's a whole thing. That was something that was happening in his life.

he is a legit giant. One of the people I learned the absolute most from, but that is what was supposed to happen. What a story. There was someone who said this is not going to work. And then he was so happy to tell them when he came to the back, oh, it worked. And then he beat me up pretty bad after, though.

I remember we went from a funny ha-ha moment to the, I do like kind of a whirly bird into a table on the outside that was rough. But when I get up, you can tell that was a rough bump. Let me ask you one more thing. Does the Cody cutter have to change because the OG cutter goes like 30 feet in the air? Javon Evans, just, oh my goodness. Javon's really good about monitoring.

I bet you start seeing less cutters. In general? In general. Because Javon is really good. There's some guys who do them in NXT who just shouldn't be doing them. And not because I'm doing them and not because Javon's doing them. Because Randy's finish is an RKO. and he's still here.

And also, Randy would never do this because he's like the consummate professional now, the ultimate family man, unstoppable father, great husband. He's all the greatest things ever about Randy. He also in the ring if wanted to

could make you look like a complete moron. And I think people have been kind of pushing on the line there a little bit. And I think you're going to start seeing less cutters. Jvonne, I think is safe because that's in another orbit. it and it's its own thing. Literally. And he's so fun.

It might be mine that you see less of. But definitely it probably starts seeing less because the idea that certain moves belong to certain people sometimes as silly as can be. And then other times it's no, there's a difference. And I hope we start seeing less. Who knows, though? I mean, that was the flavor for quite some time. We're cutter and left and right and variations of a cutter and people rolling through

cutters, you know, all the things. we got to come up with new stuff. I'll end this with a question. I've asked you many times in the last. I came in with three bonus questions there. This is the question I always ask at the end. What are three things you're grateful for right now, Cody? Three things I'm grateful for right now.

My family, Leilani just got baptized. Brandy, Leilani, and Liberty, and then all the other crazies you'll see at WrestleMania. I'm grateful for that. I am grateful for W. the platform because you said the top guy thing i if that's real i don't know how long it lasts as long as it lasts it's it gets all of me and it's my priority um and it will be my priority probably when it's when it's when it's over um the third thing i'm most grateful for that's a

great question trying to think of something that's happening right now in my life the third thing grateful for is if you watch a show on prime video, it basically directs you to shows that you might like. I don't know if my prime video knows me or doesn't know me at all, but it directed me to a show called Air Wolf. And I don't know if you guys know anything about Airwolf. It's a 90s, maybe 80s show about a souped up helicopter with an ex-military pilot that's next generation. Cutting Edge is helicopter can fight whole wars by itself. the fact that it's made me want to watch it and that I watch it on the bus now is absolutely hilarious. So I'm grateful for, I'm grateful for the algorithm where it takes us. It takes us to

sometimes where our heart most desires and we don't even know it. So I'm grateful for the algorithm for good or for bad. Airwolf. Airwolf. Thank you again. Thank you, man. Appreciate it. Thank you. This was fun. Come on the podcast. For real? We'll make it happen. Yeah. We'll make it happen. Craig. Craig Schuster's in charge of the podcast. I'm just a frontman for it. But I think Craig's, I think it'll be cool with it. Okay.

He has a flavor he likes, you know. Sign me up. Yeah. And hopefully yours makes it to air. Okay. Yeah, three of them are laying in that graveyard right now. Don't drink too much. Yeah.

It's not always, it's not the guest. It's not the guest. You do them all day long. That's what happens, folks. Ad reads, you know. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands. trying to make it in the world of rock.

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