Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Cory Sandhagen on his flying knee KO to Frankie Edgar, getting a title shot in 2021, the power of visualization

Episode Date: February 26, 2021

UFC Bantamweight Cory Sandhagen talks to Chris Van Vliet from his home in Aurora, Colorado. He talks about his 28-second flying knee KO against Frankie Edgar, earning a title shot, what he learns from a win and what he learns from a loss, his training regimen, playing basketball as a kid, how he first discovered MMA, how much visualization helps him both in and outside of the octagon, his pre-fight rituals, how he got his nickname "The Sandman", and much more. Submit your Blue Wire Hustle application here: http://bwhustle.com/join If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram:instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter:twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook:facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube:youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Acceptance into the program is limited. So get your application in today. To apply, just go to bw hustle.com slash join. Or check out the description box of this episode to find out more. But once again, it's bW hustle.com slash join. Nice to see you. Welcome to the show. If you're new here, I'm Chris Van Fleet.

I'm an Emmy Award-winning TV host, and I'm fascinated with finding out how people are wired to achieve greatness. On each episode of Insight, we have in-depth conversations and reverse engineer the habits and techniques of the world's top athletes, celebrities, entrepreneurs, fighters, you name it. If they're the best of what they do, I want to get their insight so we can apply it to our own life. And get ready for a ton of little nuggets of knowledge in this conversation with one of the top UFC fighters in the world.

Corey Sannhagen turned a lot of heads with his incredible 28-second flying knee knockout on Frankie Edgar. You'd have to think a title shot's coming soon. I mean, if it's not his next fight, I would have to think that when he wins his next fight, that's right. not if, but when he wins his next fight, he gets a title shot after that. And he talks about in this interview how he doesn't plan to lose again. And surprisingly, that is not always, you know, the outlook that all UFC fighters have. But he says he doesn't want to lose again. Well, I think what impressed me the most, though, about this conversation with Corey was how much of a role that visualization plays in his life.

You hear that a lot with athletes, but this isn't just with fighting. This is all aspects of his life. I love it. Make sure to subscribe wherever you're listening to this right now and share it with someone who's an MMA fan or someone who needs some inspiration in their life because there's plenty of it in here. Take a screenshot.

Tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. On Instagram, Corey is at Enter the Sandman 135. And thank you to C.J.C. Shadow for this review on Apple Podcast. Big, big thank you for that. Best interview there is. CVV is one of the best interviewers there is. He gives time for his guest to answer questions

and doesn't interrupt them. That is a mark of an A-plus player. Well, thank you, CJC Shadow. That's an A-plus review right there. So please keep them coming. Thank you so much for leaving these reviews. Thank you for helping to put us on the Apple top 200 for three weeks in a row now.

One of the top podcasts in the world. It's all because of you. So thank you. I'm going to keep reading one review on every episode until we get to either 2,000 reviews or my birthday, May 19th. Which one's going to come first? So please keep them coming. All right. Please welcome the Sandman, Corey Sandhagen. Man, a pleasure to be sitting down with Corey Sandhagen. So thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, man, absolutely. Thank you for having me on. I'm impressed. We were just saying this off camera. I'm impressed that you're able to fit AirPods into your. ears. Yeah, yeah. These ones actually are a lot more comfortable than the other ones that I usually have. Usually

the other ones going like this and then it's a twist and then hopefully they stay for a little bit. Running with them isn't easy either, but no, these ones are nice. At what age did you start getting like your first little bit of cauliflower ear? I was probably 17. 17 is when I got it a little bit. And then 20 is when I had it like really bad in the one year because how it works is your cartilage gets separated from the skin and then it just fills up with blood. So if you don't get the blood out, it will just, it'll just solid. It'll solidify. And then that's when it's like really big and ugly. But mine aren't too bad.

But when it was when I had this one, it was literally like I had a ping pong ball in my ear just hanging. off my ear. And so it could be a lot worse. Yeah. I was going to the, I was going to the King Supers to get syringes just to, you know, take it all out. And that lasted probably like a month and a half. And then they stopped selling me syringes at the King Supers because I think they thought that I was probably using them for drugs. So, but yeah, that was my experience with that. But now I have it bad enough now where I don't really get it anymore. Where did it start? Like was it just one little corner of one ear? Yeah. It starts in one little corner and then there's just a little bit of swelling, like I said,

and then you let it get hit a couple more times. And then, you know, that's kind of all she wrote. Are you still riding this high off one of the most impressive flying knees I've ever seen? I'm getting settled in, you know, like I think it takes, whether you win or lose a fight, I think it takes about two weeks to kind of like get back into your routine and stuff. I actually went and cornered a roommate or not a roommate, a teammate of mine. Um, pretty much right when I got back. So I was in Miami for a week and then this week is kind of my first week back,

back in my routine and just kind of hanging out and chilling with the, with the girlfriend and the dogs. And so, uh, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm feeling kind of back to normal, which I like. When you have a fight that's that quick, I guess your recovery is not nearly as long. Yeah, no. Uh, no, definitely, uh, have been really hurt after some fights, even after some wins. And now this one, you know, completely fine, which, you know, blessed for that. Yeah, this is like best case scenario for someone like you.

Absolutely best case. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't get much better than that, right? I mean, that is a knockout that I think you could only dream of having. Actually, can you even dream of having a knockout like that? I didn't think it was going to happen like that. Like, that was the first. I've never knocked anyone out like that before my life. So it was interesting to like, you know, go through those kind of set of emotions because you're happy, but also you're, you know, you understand that the person that you knocked out has family and friends and people that they love watching and stuff. So it was a little bit strange, you know, in that way. But, yeah, it doesn't really get too much better than that.

But I mean, it's obvious when you watch it back, when you connected with Frankie Eager, you knew. You knew the fight was over. Yeah, it was loud. It was loud and it, you know, like it turned his head pretty hard. I remember kind of just because there's no fans. I remember kind of just sitting there afterwards and no one was making any noise, you know? And that's when I was like, oh yeah, that was, that was not normal. That was pretty devastating. Because you're riding this high and you were, you know, you're making the belt motion. You're saying all kinds of things. And then probably And a second later, you're like, oh, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's, you know, I used to judge people a lot for the way that they would act after a fight, you know. Like, I'd be like, oh, that guy's there again. Oh, that guy, you know, like, what, that guy's acting like an idiot, you know? And then I stopped judging them because I, one, did it a few times. And then, too, I kind of just realized that the state of mind that you go into a fight in isn't normal. and it requires just like a higher level of intensity that people, you know, might not understand.

And so, yeah, it was definitely like very, very, you know, still adrenaline was kicking. And then I remember my corner goes, hey, man, like, you know, the fight's over, like, you know, let's show some respect, you know, and settle down a little bit. And I was like, oh, okay. And then that's kind of when I started to feel a little bad about doing it. Did you have a chance to talk to Frankie later that night? No, I sent him a message. I just said, I hope everything's okay. And no, I don't know.

It's always a little bit awkward after you beat someone. You don't really know what to say to him, you know, especially because I think that there's no other sport that hurts when you lose like it does in MMA. So, no, that's always a little bit awkward. But I sent him a message and he replied. So he's good. You know, all is good. He'll keep it moving and that's that.

I mean, and you know, you've had losses before and you know what it feels like to recover after a loss. Is it, do you think you learn more from a loss or from a win? I think you can learn from both. I think it just depends how honest you want to be with yourself. I think that a lot of, a lot of my success has come from me being really honest with myself and me being like even if I did pull off a win, I would still try to pick out as many things as I could that I felt went wrong. And that has been really helpful for me. But I do think that losing,

because I've had two losses as a professional, my one before last year was like three or four years ago. I think that the loss really reminds you that you're doing something. One, you're doing something really serious that you can get really harmed in. And then two, I think it kind of reminds you that losing is the worst, you know, having those conversations with people when you get back home and just the way people look at you and, you know, just the whole entire experience of losing is just completely miserable, and I think sometimes you need to be reminded of that. Although you're probably, after especially a big wing like this, you're like, I don't, I don't want everyone to lose again.

No, I made the decision I'm never losing again after my last loss. Yeah, I made that decision. I said, nope, I don't think I'm going to do this anymore. I think that I'm, you know, that's really not for me. I think I'm just going to stick with the winning columns. Well, I think it seems pretty obvious that you're in line for a title shot now. Yeah, obvious. it's Ben's how you define obvious, you know.

The UFC has run like a business. So, you know, the bigger your name is, the more likelihood you have of kind of, you know, secure in that thing. And I know that I have a lot of people that are in the division that are really huge names. The Bantamweight Division is a really hot division right now. And I'm, you know, I'm the new guy that's kind of, you know, put my footmark and stuff. And I understand that that's a thing. If you look at it on paper, I think that I've definitely have earned it, especially after something like my last fight. I think that I've deserved it and earned it.

But at the same time, I'm not going to bank. I'm not going to put any eggs in that basket. You know, whoever they tell me to fight next, I'll fight next. And as long as, you know, it's reasonable. So I think I have earned it. But at the same time, you know, no eggs in that basket. and I'm just going to keep fighting, you know, keep keep it moving. Well, I mean, it's February right now.

I would have to think that if for some reason it's not your next fight, that at some point in 2021, you are fighting for a championship. Yeah, I think that that's definitely happening, especially since I made the decision that I'm not losing anymore. I think that, yeah, I think if the next one's not for the belt, the next one will be for the number one contender spot. and then at the, I think at the very least at the end of the year, it'll be, you know, I'm winning that belt. A lot of people on the sand wagon now.

Yep. I don't know who came up with that, but it's great. It is great. Yeah, I think it's, you know, I think just because of the culture that we live in, man, people want highlights. People want, you know, short clips of you doing damage. And that's what people want. And I knew that my time would come eventually for those things to happen. I don't really think that I get to control whether I highlight real, knock someone out or not.

That's more of their decision as far as like what mistake do they make in order for me to be able to hurt them. And yeah, so the last two fights that I've had have been really big knockout wins. And like I said, I knew that it was going to happen. It's kind of, you know, that's kind of an odds game. Not every fight you go into, are you going to be able to do something like that? Whether you like to admit it or not, a little bit of it has to do with luck. And I've been lucky in the last two fights. How much do you go back and watch your fights?

Win or loss. How much do you go back and watch? I watch a decent amount, to be honest. I'm a real visual learner. I learn a lot by watching. And whenever I feel like I'm getting too far away from things that I do, especially in the training room or getting ready for a fight or whatever, if I ever feel like I'm getting too far away from things that have been making me really successful,

usually I'll go back and watch a couple of my fights and stuff and just be like, oh, okay, that was working really good here. That was working really good here. And I think as far as film study goes, man, I probably do more film study on myself. watching myself make mistakes and what I do well, probably more than I watched my opponent's film. If we take this back, Corey, what was the moment in your life where you decided

I am going to be a fighter? It was probably when I was 18 years old. I had started training when I was 17, but a little bit before that, like dabbling and some boxing and Taekwondo. But I actually grew up playing basketball. So that was kind of my sport. And we were always at like a really competitive basketball family.

My sister played too. And so like not playing basketball wasn't an option. I tried to make that suggestion to my mom when I was a senior in high school. And she told me if I have to wear a singlet, then I'm not allowed to, then I'm not allowed to wrestle. And so we stuck with basketball. And so I had been training for. about a year. And then I had a best friend who lost his life when he was 18 and when I was 18. And I realized really quickly that, you know, all of this can be taken away really quick.

That's how it happens, you know, especially when you're young. And that was pretty much the catalyst that made me be like, I'm going to do what I want. So this is the decision that you didn't want to live with regrets. You wanted to chase. after the things that excited you yeah it was i wanted the full experience of life you know i wanted to be there for all that it had to offer whether it was you know offering a lot of heartache in order for me to to get a lot of you know moments like a couple weeks ago uh which is what this sport is it's a lot of heartache too um i decided that yeah i was going to do that and uh that that was kind of the thing that Since that happened, I was like, you know, this is what I'm doing.

Do you remember what the first UFC or MMA fight that you ever watched was? Yeah, I do. It was actually, so there was this local show, but it was pretty big. It was the feeder system into the UFC, maybe 10 or 12 years ago. And it was called Ring of Fire. And Ring of Fire is where all the really, like, I used to train out of gym, called Grudge and Eastons, but Grudge was where we had most of the pro practices where there was really huge names in there. Dwayne Ludwig, Nate Marquart, Elliott Marshall, Brennan Schaub,

George St. Pierre used to train there often. Rashad Evans used to go in there. So like really huge names used to train there. So all of the local guys that were really good that were out of Grudge used to fight on this local show and it was called Ring of Fire. And Ring of Fire was really produced really well but I remember that was my first show and the main event was my coach my coach Christian Allen who has been my mentor and my sense since day one.

So that was the first card that I had been on but funny story is I'm sure you're familiar with Justin Gachi who's one of the hotter names in the sport right now. He was actually fighting still as an amateur on that card and so yeah so my first show that I went to was wanted KG's amateur cards and my coach Christian Allen's main event. So yeah, it was a really special first one. And you were how old at this time? I was probably 17, you know. And did,

had you watched any MMA on TV before that? Yeah, absolutely. I was I was I didn't honestly, I didn't know what the UFC was until after I knew what the WEC was. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, the WEC is actually what got me going on on MMA because that was the station. that I had for whatever reason. I don't know. I didn't, whatever, for whatever reason on the cable stations that I had, they didn't play UFC. They only played the WEC. So I used to watch guys like Cruz, Aldo, Saroni, Faber, all of those guys. And I love that they were all my size. You know, like I grew up a lot smaller than everyone. I know I'm a bit taller now, but growing up, I was really short. They told me I was going to be five to one year I grew up or I grew like eight inches in a

or something. So when I would watch those guys, I would be like, oh, man, like little guys can actually, you know, hold their own, especially if they know how to choke someone. And that's actually why I signed up is that because I was watching a lot of the WEC. And I was like, oh, man, like, you can be people that are bigger than you if you just know how to choke them. And that's what, you know, kind of made me fall in love with Jiu-Jitsu first. It's just so ironic that you wanted to be a basketball or you were a basketball player and you're like, yeah, I really wasn't that tall. yeah yeah i was a quick guy you know i was the quick guy and uh you know i do think that it's helped a lot in in mma though too you know i know that everyone likes to come from a wrestling background but i think

i think basketball has helped tremendously with footwork with coordination with like reaction time like man some wrestlers reaction times are embarrassing some wrestlers man some wrestlers you have them do anything else and and they will look like the most unathletic person in the entire world. So I'm grateful that I, you know, I didn't grow up as a wrestling kid for that, for that reason, a little bit. When you went to that first MMA show, were you sitting in the audience going, I could totally do this?

No, definitely not. No, I remember on it. So that's funny. So, Gachi, I have a very lucid memory of this. So Gachi used to be called the highlight. I don't think that they're calling that too much anymore when they announce his name, but it's because he used to just toss people around. Like he was really good at throwing people and he had the same really exciting style that he has. And I remember watching it and I remember

watching him like get out of the way of some punches where he would slip, roll underneath some punches back. And I was like, there's no way that I will ever be able to get out of the way of a punch that is flying as fast as it can at my face. Just because I didn't, you know, I didn't realize that. you know, I could do that. And no, I never thought that I could do it. I don't even, I was asked the other day when that kind of clicked for me in my head. And I don't really remember the time where I was like, oh, this could be something that I'm really good at. You know, I knew that it was something that I wanted to do, but I never really thought

it was something that I could be really, really good at. Do you remember when it clicked for you and it started to become second nature, where you weren't thinking about what you were doing in the cage? it just kind of happened? Yeah, probably. Bad takes a lot of practice. Being present in a fight takes a ton of practice. So it wasn't probably till much later in my career that I was actually able to,

you know, go in there with a lot less fear because I think fear is a lot of those thoughts that are happening. Whether it's like you're scared or it's like, oh, I don't want to throw this so that this doesn't happen or I don't want to commit to this too much to that this doesn't happen. but no because I mean when you're in there now it looks like it is second nature for you

yeah yeah I'm pretty comfortable in there now I feel comfortable in there yeah well you'd be surprised man you'd be you'd be surprised I remember one of my first experiences in the UFC was kind of being around a lot of the people hearing them talk and stuff and you know not everyone not everyone is as cool as they come across you know not not everyone is as as put together as as they might appear you know myself included so um you know uh there you walk in there with some

fear whether people like to admit it or not well you mentioned fear but fear is like a completely different thing from nerves so do you still have nerves when you're walking out there so uh i think that um to answer your question i get myself self in a state of mind where when I'm walking, there isn't much going on. You know, it's pretty much just, you know, fight my best and make sure that I'm keeping myself safe and that I'm hurting the other person as much as I can. And that's pretty much all that's on my brain when I'm making the walk. It's more the weeks leading up to it is the nerves part, you know.

That's kind of the part where, you know, the fear starts to mess with you and this and that. But apparently the fire alarm's going off here. I'm sorry. That's okay. Wow, short fire, huh? Yeah, I guess we're good now. Is there more or less nerves now that there's no audience when you're walking out there? I don't know that I notice anymore because it seems really normal.

You know, I've had three fights now with no audience. So I don't notice it too much. I think I, I, just don't notice it too much anymore. Was it like was your first fight with no crowd a little bit weird? You know, there's no buzz in the air. There's no energy to feed off of. It was weird.

But it was so that was my that was my loss that I had last year was, was the first one that I had without a crowd. And it was weird, but I anticipated it. So I can't really make an excuse that that had, that had anything to do with the result of the fight. But I will say it was a bit strange the first time. Does fight day feel like the longest day ever for you? Because, you know, you get to the arena, you get, you know, taped up, you get ready to go.

And then the event starts and maybe you're not to later in the card. Then you have the walkout. Then you get into the octagon. Then Bruce Buffer announces you just like all this buildup to finally fight. Yeah, it's funny because, so we fly in on a Tuesday usually when we fight on Saturday. Saturdays. And it's the, it's the most boring week of your entire life, uh, especially now because we can't go and do anything. We're just, it's just quarantine. So we're sitting at a resident, a resident in and you just sit there and, you know, you watch a little bit TV and then you just

try not to think about food because at this point, like, you know, you're pretty deep in the weight cut. But I think the longest day of fight week is definitely the day before, um, the day before the weight cut because we weigh in at 9 a.m. So you usually stop eating and drinking about 24 hours before that. So the whole day before weigh-ins, you're kind of just sitting around. You don't get to snack on anything. You don't really have energy to do anything. And then you weigh in and then you start to like perk up a little bit.

You start to actually feel like fighting again, which is nice feeling. And then fight day comes. And it's a lot of, again, just like kind of sitting around, laying around. I don't like to do much. I don't usually look at my phone. I hardly watch any TV on fight day. I pretty much, as weird as it sounds, I wake up. I do my shakeout.

I eat my meals and I pretty much just lay in bed and go over what I'm doing in the fight and making sure that I have answers for everything. And then, you know, you get to the arena and then you bounce around, you warm up, and then someone yells at you and tells you that you're next. and then and then you say, oh, shit on next. And then you go out and, yeah, you fight and it's quick. It's a lot of boring buildup to a really exciting moment. I feel like that introduction must feel like it takes an hour.

Yeah, it does. So that used to be something that used to bother me a lot, actually, is just being in the cage, you know, like standing that close to the person that you have to beat up in, you know, five minutes. and you're just standing there waiting for, you know, all of the, all of the, you know, theatrics and entertainment stuff to kind of go along. But I've been working with the sports psych for a really long time now.

So we have some tricks that kind of, you know, make that time not go to your head as much as, you know, it has in the past for me. You mentioned visualization when you're laying in bed the day before the fight. Are you visualizing how you think the fight is going to go? Yes. More and less, but also it's really important to visualize a lot of the mistakes that you can make to so that when you're in the fight, you don't have like a, oh, crap type of moment. Yeah, so those are really important.

Yeah, so just going through all of the, you know, for me it's a lot. It's like a lot of every single little thing, every single little position, every little single advantage or disadvantage that might happen in the fight and going over that. And then honestly, one of my favorite parts of visualization is the post-fight part, because that's what really gets me motivated. I like I like visualizing making a speech afterwards. I like visualizing picking up my paycheck. I like visualizing FaceTime and my family and my girlfriend. I like visualizing all of the people around the world that I made proud and that I made happy and added a little bit of excitement to their lives. I really like that.

And that's a huge part of my visualization is the post-fight part because it really gets me motivated. Do you just use visualization when it comes to fighting? Or do you use it in all aspects of your life? Oh, no, all aspects of my life. I don't, you know, I'm a lot less hippie than I was. I think maybe five or six years ago. But, and, you know, the word spiritual kind of, you know, stirs up a lot of connotations. that don't really align with like my value system and stuff.

But I will do like a lot of visualization on just, you know, what I think is happening inside of me because I think that a lot of things are happening inside of us that we're really unaware of because we have a lot going on. Our world is very hectic and it's very fast. And I think if you don't kind of sit down and sit with a lot of those things, they'll manifest in some other way.

So yeah, I do do a lot of like meditation, a lot of visualization on just me and how I'm doing and what I need to be doing in order for me to kind of, you know, be what a good person is in my definition of it. So are you saying things in ourselves that are going on that are these things we haven't dealt with like baggage? Is that what you mean? It could mean that. It could mean just that, like, for example, I have to do a lot of meditation, especially

a couple of weeks after because my brain is going like this. My phone is going, you know, still a little bit. And sometimes I just need to take a couple breaths and just be with my body and just make sure that I'm straight in that way. But in the past, yeah, it's sometimes, you know, when you get deep enough in the breath, I've had experiences of like, oh man, that's, that's kind of, you know, what has been going on with me this whole time. And those are kind of special. You know, those are a little bit far in between.

And, you know, there's nothing really I think I can do to like make that happen every single time. But yeah, I definitely spend a good amount of time just, you know, just with me and my breath sometimes. I'm really curious with all this said, what is like the first 30 minutes or hour of your day look like? Yeah. I have my coffee. I usually mess around on my phone until the coffee kind of starts to kick in a little bit. And then I can, and I'm a little bit more awake. I usually, I get up kind of early, like 6.6.30.

They usually don't have anything to do until about 10. So I'll have my coffee. I'll either read. I'll either meditate. I'll maybe do some visualization stuff on what I want the day to look like. But right now, man, when I'm not training super hard, I find that I need a lot more stimulation than when I am training really hard. So when I am training really hard, it's a lot more visualization, a lot more meditations.

And now that I have a lot more energy, it's a lot of reading and it's a lot of, I guess, studying and stuff like that. What are you reading these days? Right now I'm reading a bit of a weird book. Well, I guess I'm reading a couple things. So one of them, I think it's be here now. I forget who it's by. Yeah, I know that, right.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It has all the pictures and stuff in it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm reading that one right now. That was suggested to me recently. And then I started reading the secret teachings of all the ages by Manley Hall.

Do you know Manley Hall? No, I don't know this one. No, he's like to add this to my list, though. I don't know. I don't want to suggest it yet. It's a little bit out there. which like I said, like I need a lot of stimulation when I'm not training hard, so like things that are a little bit more in depth because it's more of like,

it's a lot of information. So right now I'm able to read that, but when I start picking up training, I usually don't have the attention span to like stick with a book that that's that in depth. When you say not training hard, what is not training hard for an elite athlete like you look like? It still means at least once a day. So seven days a week? I take Sundays off. Every Sunday I take off.

But honestly, in training camp and out of training camp, the only thing that really changes too much is the level of competitiveness that I have. When I'm out of training camp, I don't really care as much about winning and losing. I don't put a lot of value on that. It's more about my learning process. where am I doing really bad in? Where do I need to work on? And it's a lot of studying and trying to figure out different positions and stuff.

Whereas in training camp, it's just a little bit more competitive, which makes for a little bit harder training also. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. Is there something interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals? BetterHelp will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating in under 48 hours. Now, this isn't a crisis line. This isn't self-help. This is professional counseling done securely online.

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and financial aid is available. BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. Visit their website and read their testimonials that are posted daily. Visit betterhelp.com slash insight. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash insight and join the over one million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. In fact, so many people have been using BetterHelp that they're recruiting additional counselors in all 50 states. So the special offer for anybody listening to Insight right now is 10% off your first month. Just go to BetterHelp.com slash insight. That's BetterHelphelp.com slash insight. How much do you think has changed for you as a fighter?

I mean, you said three fights now that you fought without an audience. And three fights ago was your last loss. How much has changed for you as a fighter since that loss? I would say I've changed a decent amount. I think that I've really, as far as performance goes, inside the cage, I think that I've really found my groove since losing. I really realized that when they say go, you better be ready to go. And so performance-wise, I'm really happy with the steps that I've made.

And I think in the last two fights, I've definitely, you know, proven to myself and other people also that I have been making some really positive steps in performance. I think as far as in my personal life, I think I've kind of loved. learn to, uh, learn to, you know, not, not, uh, to take this very serious, you know, um, and to not try to make this a small thing, uh, because what I'm doing to me is a big deal. Uh, and it might not be a big deal to everyone else. And we might just be, you know, little ants crawling around the earth, but, uh, this little aunt really cares about what, what, uh, what, what he's doing. And, um, so settling into to, to that and getting really

comfortable with that type of thinking, I think, has helped me a lot in my personal life also. What did this little aunt? What did you care about when you were growing up? Before you found fighting, what were you in basketball? What were you really passionate about? Kids. I had always had a job that involved working with kids. When I was 16, I started working at the elementary school that I used to go to at the after-school program there. So I was doing that when I was about 16. And then I did that for a few years, I think, until I took off for college. And then in college, I wasn't working much.

I was teaching at a gym up there. And then post college, I went to college and got my psychology degree with hopes to kind of maybe work in a little bit of social work. So I gave that a go. And I was working as just a part-time kind of like a fill-in. for a place called Mount St. Vincent's home, which is just a residential treatment facility for kids that have histories of trauma.

And I was doing that all the way up until a couple months ago. And I had to stop just because I felt like I was kind of being a pain for my supervisor, just because I wasn't being there as much as would be helpful for me forming relationships with the kids and then forming relationships with me. So I mean, I was doing that for,

probably four, I think almost five years working there about, you know, before I was in the UFC was about 25, 35 hours a week. And that was really, you know, that was really a special part of my life where I learned a lot. So that was a huge chunk of my life working with kids. And then now, because I'm not doing that as much anymore, I teach the kids program at high altitude martial arts. I teach their kids kickboxing program just two days a week. So yeah, I would say, that that's kind of my gig. You know, I'd rather have a conversation with a kid any day of the week than an adult than an adult. Well, whenever your contract or whenever your career does come to an end, that stuff will always be there for you. Yeah, there will always be kids on the planet. Always be

kids. And when you win the belt, you can go back with the belt and go, hey, look, look what's possible. No, I think, man, honestly, I think that they don't care if they win the belt. I think that I started getting some real respect from these kids when I started when I got into the video game. that's when they really were like hey you're in the video game and I was like yeah and then that's when I saw a couple light bulbs lick in their heads and I started and I started seeing a couple of them get a little bit more better at listening after that they don't care that you're that you can actually do it in real life they just care that your character in the game can yeah exactly and they want me to be they want me to fight John Sina too they keep asking for that so I'm not I don't think I don't

I don't think he wants that fight. He doesn't want that fight. No. You would hurt John Cena. That's what would happen. Maybe. Maybe he's a big guy. For kids that are watching this that want to do what you're doing now, what advice

do you give them? Yeah, that's a, that's a bit of a tough one. I think every kid's probably different, you know? I would say that, you know, if I had to give one just, one just like, really widespread piece of advice, it would be, you know, whatever you want to be good at, just do it a lot, you know, like everyone kind of talks about, you know, hard work, this and that. And, you know, I don't really like the words hard work. I think everyone works pretty hard at the high levels.

I think that in order for you to be good at things, you have to do it a lot and you have to give it a lot of thoughtfulness. And I think that working thoughtfully is just as important as working hard. What about if someone wants to be a fighter? What if they want to follow in your footsteps there? Oh, yeah, then they get treated different. It's funny. So I coach people at high altitude martial arts too.

And most people are there just to have a good workout, have a good time, learn a little bit of fighting, maybe feel a little bit more confident. And all of that stuff is great. The second you say you want to be a fighter, you get treated differently. You know, you don't get treated like a customer anymore. you get treated like if you're serious about this, it's not a sport where you get to not be serious about it. So if you say you want to be a fighter, then I'll take that serious and you'll get treated like someone who's going to go out and fight and represent our team. And that is not

taken lightly. So if you want to be a fighter, don't expect to get treated like a customer anymore. So what changes for them? Do you have to say like your mentality needs to change boom right now? No, you know, I think that there's still an art to coaching that honestly I haven't even really given too much of my life to. So I'm not, I wouldn't consider myself a good coach. I would consider myself an okay coach. But I would say there is an art to it and everyone needs something different. And it's not, it doesn't have to be this really harsh military.

way of teaching or being. But it does require a different level of honesty that I think some people may not be used to, you know. And, you know, I'd rather me be honest with you and you go into a fight than me not be honest with you and you get hurt in a fight. Right. Who came up with your nickname? I've actually always kind of been called that. I mean, it makes sense. Yeah. It makes sense, I suppose. It doesn't really have any, like, character meaning or anything. But when I was- You put people to sleep.

Yeah, I do now. Before that, I wasn't really. But maybe the nickname is what's been doing it for me. But no, when I was a kid, it was, you know, my teachers always used to sing that Mr. Sandman, that song. I'll spare you the rest of the words. I was good. I was feeling it.

So yeah, so that that was kind of a bit where it started. And then, yeah, just, you know, people used to call me that. They used to call me Sandy sometimes, which I didn't really dig. Sandman's a little bit more masculine. But yeah, for a really long time, that has kind of been, you know, a part of my life. So when are you going to come out to Metallica's enter Sandman? Never. Never?

No, I like Biggie too much, man. Like, I would really like to, you know, I would really like to come out to something like that, but I feel like it wouldn't be true to myself, you know. My Instagram tag, Enter the Sandman, actually comes from the movie Enter the Dragon, which is my favorite Bruce Lee movie. I didn't even put the pieces together when I changed the name on Instagram. That's likely what people would think is Metallica. but yeah it's actually from Enter the Dragon which is you know my favorite kung fu movie

well this all you know if you did change your walkout song this this like dips into like some superstitious stuff what if you know things don't go as well on that fight like biggie wouldn't have done that to you yeah uh biggie wouldn't want that either you know biggie big he wants me to go out there and kill it so uh so you got to pay you got to pay your respects to the man How superstitious are you? Not very superstitious. Yeah, I'm pretty, you know, I'm trying to think I don't really have anything that I, you know, maybe there's a fine line between superstition and discipline. Yeah, or just routine.

Or routine. I would say that I'm, I'm very disciplined about doing my meditations and doing my visualizations every day and making every single practice. The intensity of that practice might change, but I will never miss a practice when I'm in training camp, and I'll never miss meditation, and I'll never miss visualization. And if I do, I'll make it up at another day. So I guess you could say that that's, it's probably pretty borderline superstitious. Well, there's some athletes that are like, I put on my left shoe first, or, you know, I've, you know, ridiculous don't change my underwear, which is like a hockey thing, which is disgusting. Gross. Anything like that?

No, no, nothing like that. No, nothing that isn't like directly correlated with performance. No, nothing like that. When you look ahead, what do you think you want your legacy to be in the sport? The guy that only lost one time in the UFC and then crushed everyone else until the end of his career, you know, which in my head has to be the reality. or else I'm planning on losing and I don't plan on losing anymore. So, you know, as silly as I know that that might sound, that's where I kind of have to keep myself.

So my legacy, I just want to be the guy that showed up, fought everyone that was good and didn't cut any corners. You know, he earned everything that he had. He didn't try to play some character or put on some type of person that he wasn't. He was himself and his fighting talked for himself and, uh, and, uh, he, you know, he reigned as king until he retired with, with only one loss on his UFC record. I like this goal of never losing. I mean, you'd be surprised, man, that, that should be the goal for everyone, but I don't, you know, it's, it's really easy to be like, ah, but that's not realistic,

you know, but at the same time, if, if that's your thinking, then you also are kind of planning on losing, which is not a really good way to think. Well, you're giving yourself a plan B. Yeah, you're giving yourself a plan B. I really like that. I read an article when I was, I think, first getting into MMA, and it was about a plan B when you're getting into the sport. And it was really interesting because it really hit home for me.

I don't know why where I was in my life, But it was like, if you're standing in the cage and you have a plan B, you better understand that the person across from you who you're going to fight does not. So understand that when you go out and you fight is that the person standing across from you does not have a plan B. Yeah, I love that. You think you'll stay in this weight class? Maybe.

I think that we're kind of in the era of super fights. Yeah. So I think when I kind of stake my claim at 135 and, you know, I show that I'm the baddest dude in this division. I think that, yeah, definitely, definitely not going down. So I could definitely see myself going up to 45. I think that I have the build for it. I have the frame for it. And I, you know, I think that I would have a lot of advantages at that weight class also.

So, yeah, definitely in the future. But it's going to be after I do my thing in this division. vision. How much weight do you have to cut? Like what sitting here right now? What do you weigh? I'm probably, you know, after two weeks off or so, probably about 160. So that's on the high end for me. It's a big cut. Yeah, it's a big cut. Honestly, so how it works is I'll usually, you know, when I start working out good, I'll get down to, you know, 155. And then I'll have to, you know, start my diet. And then from my diet, I'll get down to about 149. And then 149 a week away is a really doable cut for me.

And yeah, you kind of lose, you know, I'll lose usually about like six of that just by by diet that last week and then kind of, you know, the water loading and stuff like that. And then usually I have to cut about seven pounds the day of weigh-ins. And that's that. So it's not too bad. You know, I think it's a huge advantage to be the bigger animal in the jungle, you know, like, that's, that's the laws of nature. So it's worth it, you know, and I think honestly, a lot of these guys are probably doing more weight than I'm doing. And then when you weigh in the day before the fight, so then when you're actually fighting, what do you think you weigh on fight day?

Yeah, so they actually weigh you. The UFC weighs you. And I hate that they do this because I don't like knowing what I weigh the day of the fight. If there is anything that I'm superstitious about, I suppose that that might be it. Is that like, oh, I was a little bit lighter than that, you know, even though it doesn't matter. But usually I'm about 151, 150. That's 16 pounds in a day? Yeah. And I know what you're thinking. But it's a lot of water weight, I know.

Yeah, it's a lot of water weight. But that's also everyone, man. Like I know guys, I know guys, man, that put on like at least 20, you know, especially in the bigger divisions. it's like it's 20, 25 pounds in a night, you know, and that is insane to me. I think what's crazy is you don't physically look that much different at the way in than you do when you're stepping into the octagon to put on. I mean, that's your size 10% of your body weight. Yeah.

Yeah, my, it's funny because I know based off of my aesthetic now, usually where I am in weight, like especially the week or the day of weigh-ins. I'll kind of look at my coaches as I'm sitting there laying sweating, hating my life. You know, I'll be like, how much weight does it look like my face has to lose? It'll be like, I think you still got a couple more and I'll be like, dang, you know, like you can see. Like, there's a, there's a point where me and my coaches know in my face where it's like, all right, he's on weight. What is the food that you miss the most when you're cutting yeah everyone says that honestly man it's it's uh it's not the food that gets you man it's a water when when you're sweating man and you're like in your eight pounds you know uh

missing of water all you want is a slurpy man like all you want is a cherry a cherry blueberry slurpy one of the big ones you know uh and you just want to dump it on your face and that's what you feel like doing you you would take that 10, times out of 10 over a cheeseburger. Jeez. When do you think we'll see you in the octagon next? I hope soon. I'm healthy.

I'm really, I have a good drive right now. Things are clicking really good for me in the training room. I figured and kind of, you know, I don't want to say mastered, but I've gotten into a really nice groove of my process of learning and adding new skills into my game. So I feel good in kind of all of training. So, I mean, we'll see how the fight in March goes. And then what the UFC is thinking after that. And then, you know, I don't want to say as soon as I can because I do enjoy a couple weeks off.

And I think my girlfriend does too because I can be quite the crank when I'm in training camp. But, you know, I just maybe need a couple more weeks off and then I'll jump right back into a training camp. I love that you're into mindfulness and that you're into meditation and visualization. And I think that what goes along with that is gratitude. I'm a big gratitude person. So I ask everyone as we wrap up these interviews, what are three things that you're grateful for in your life right now? I'm grateful that I don't need to kill myself every day in the training room.

I'm really grateful for that. I'm really grateful that I have a little bit more energy to give to, to give to my relationships because that can be a frustrating part of doing what I do is not having a lot of emotional and physical energy at the end of the day. So I'm grateful for that. And I'm grateful that, you know, we have some really nice weather here in Colorado. How about you? How about you? What are you grateful for? Oh my gosh. Turn to the tables on it. I do this every day. I start and end every day with gratitude. Yeah, it's good. I'm really grateful for my family.

My parents have been married for 47 years. Wow. Yeah, they've set this incredible example of love and friendship and companionship. I'm super grateful for them. Health, it's a strange time that we're living in this world right now. So I'm really grateful to be able to be healthy through all this. And number three, I'm grateful to be able to do this. I'm grateful to be able to talk to people like you and have these conversations.

I'm grateful for the internet that you live in Colorado. I live in California and we're able to talk like we're sitting next to each other. crazy. Crazy world, man. Crazy world. I'm grateful for you. So thank you for this conversation. I can't wait to see what's next for you. Absolutely, man. I'm grateful for you too. Thank you for having me on. How can you not love that guy? Ah, huge thank you to Corey Sanhagen for a great conversation. And thank you to you for being with us on this audio adventure. I love Corey's goal to never lose again. That is what a champion sounds like. A champion has a plan A and no Plan B like he talked about there.

And that's the type of mentality that you can take with yourself in every aspect of your life. As Vince Lombardi famously said, perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence. Be great.

Be grateful, my friends. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock but there was one band that had it all hammer alley whatever happened to hammer alley how did they go from top of the rock i'm looking for a music video they're a band from

1987 hammer alley ever heard of them to rock bottom dude i was born in nineteen eighty seven i can't believe he's doing this hammer alley follow and listen on your favorite platform