Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Curt Hawkins compares WWE releases in 2014 & 2020, losing streak, Edge Heads, Zack Ryder

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

Curt Hawkins (Brian Myers) chats with Chris Van Vliet from his home in Queens, New York. He compares his recent release from WWE to the first time he was released in 2014, talks about what his plans are now, how he met and became friends with Zack Ryder, his infamous 269 match losing streak, breaking that streak by winning the tag team titles at WrestleMania 35, why he used to come to the ring holding a cane, what he learned from working behind the scenes as a WWE producer, his podcast "The Major Wrestling Figure Podcast" and much more! Thanks to Bet Online for supporting this episode! Use the code BLUEWIRE at BetOnline.ag for a new welcome bonus on your first deposit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's a great question. Look at you, man. With the powerful questions. Woo! This is the Christmas. Van Vleet Show. Chris Van Vleet Show. Ladies and gentlemen,

Chris! Greetings and salutations, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure on the Chris Van Vleet Show. This episode is brought to you by Bet Online. And after I had Matt Cardona, aka Zach Ryder, on the show a few weeks ago, a lot of you tweeted me and sent me messages on Instagram asking,

when's his tag team partner, Kurt Hawkins, gonna be on? Well, wait, longer. And he has such an interesting story because this is the second time he's been released. And you'll hear it here, but he dives into all the reasons why his first release, his firing, as he calls it in 2014, was so different than the one he just had here on April 15th. Of course, Matt and Brian, that's Kurt Hockens' real name there, Brian Myers. Of course, they host the major wrestling figure podcast together.

You can listen to that wherever you're listening to this. And if you happen to be listening to this on Apple Podcasts, I'd like to thank you for leaving a review or thank you in advance for the review that I know you're going to leave because it only takes a few seconds. And that's really all I ask of you. I mean, sure, you can buy my merch on pro wrestling teas or on my website, chrisfanfleet.com.

But a review. I mean, that's really all I need. Just just a few seconds of your time. And we're just 25 away from the goal. goal of a thousand reviews as I record this right now. The goal is a thousand reviews before the podcast turns one year old on June 24th, which is totally going to happen. Only 25 away. Getting excited about this. I also want to thank you for listening and those reviews. They've been so important in helping to keep the show in the Apple top 200 for the third week in

a row. Oh, man. Reviews are like the biggest thing to help that out. So thank you. A reviews like this one from dastardly Davey or dastardly Dave I in CINCy. Hey, I live in Cincinnati right now, which I guess that means dastardly, Dave. We are neighbors. He says, best wrestling interviews anywhere. There are a lot of wrestling podcasts. Many are good, some not so good. Yours is one of the few that I would call great.

You manage to be topical and nostalgic and get more out of guests than most interviewers in the wrestling world. Keep up the great. work. Well, thank you, Dave. And I'm sure I'll run into you at Mad Tree or Brew Dog, and we can totally too sweet together. Those are awesome breweries in Cincinnati for anyone who's wondering. So there's a lot in this chat with Brian Myers, aka Kurt Hawkins. He's probably best known for the 269 match losing streak that he had and was snapped at WrestleMania last year when he won the tag team titles was Zach Ryder. Zach Ryder's? Zach Ryder? Zach Ryder.

He also has his own wrestling school in New York called Create a Pro. And they have a few graduates that I'm sure you've heard of, MJF and Chris Statlander. And he talks about how he applied the knowledge that he had as a wrestling school owner, as a wrestling school instructor to being a backstage producer in WW. He did that briefly while he was injured. And he lists off some of the great producers that he learned from, like Jamie Noble and Tyson Kidd. And speaking of learning, speaking of learning,

he talks about what it's like to work with Edge as part of the Edgeheads. That was good stuff, right? He's about to be a father for the second time in just a few weeks. So a big pre-congratz to him and his wife, Lizzie. And without further ado, let's get to it. Ladies and gentlemen, Kurt Hawkins.

Thank you so much for joining me for this. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me. I was kind of thinking you might have the big headset, like Matt Cardona. on, you know, because you guys do host the podcast. We host the major wrestling. It's already beginning.

This wonderful mug here is available at ProRescenteatcom. I think that's what makes the podcast work so well. We're very yin and yang. He's very over the top, as you experienced last week. And I'm a little more, you know, down to earth. Just a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah.

It's a yin and yang relationship, but it really works, you know. Are you guys still talking? single day? Obviously, we're seeing each other every single week. I can't even tell you how many times I communicate with Matt Cardona every single day in my life, whether it's, I mean, at this point, I think we're in probably close to 20 group chats with different groups of people, you know, guys we started with, guys we're in the main roster with, guys that are into toilet, like, it just never ends. And then we, of course, have the major wrestling figure podcast business that we need to conduct day to day. So it's a lot of communication. I'm wondering if you can plug the major

your wrestling figure podcast as much as he did. I think he did so much that I don't even need to attempt that, but we're there and you can find us. I think people already know. Anywhere you're listening to this, you can find that podcast. Exactly. And on YouTube and things like that. That's right.

Anywhere you're watching it, or if you're watching this on YouTube, then I'll link it below. There we go. You're a pro. Wow. I guess that's what people do, right? Yeah. How is everything in your world? Good, good.

obviously the world's a little strange right now. But I try to remain to be a positive person at all times, even in a pandemic like this, which is a word I didn't even know what that meant a couple months ago. But especially like being a full-time on-the-road active WWW wrestling, you know, our time and home is pretty precious. So now I'm getting my fill and it's nice. You know, I missed a lot of things being on the road four and a half days a week for three or four years or whatever it was. So I'm enjoying it.

I have a three-year-old daughter, another baby on the way, so a very pregnant wife. And I'm enjoying spending time with them. Yeah, I read your wife's blog post. Like, she's like going to, like, she's due it like next month, right? Yeah, we're about the one month countdown area. Oh, man. Well, how excited are you for that? Very excited.

It's another baby girl. I like being a girl dad. My whole life, I just wanted to be a pro wrestler and a dad. And I always thought I wanted to have sons, you know. And my daughter McKinsey, when she was born, my wife decided to make it a surprise. We wrote it all the way out to the delivery room. She comes out and it's a girl. And I wish there was like some kind of recording in my face because I just mentally convinced myself it was a boy.

And I was just like in pure shock. Like, unbelievable shock. Like, oh, girl, what am I supposed to do with a baby girl? And it's just changed my life so much and I love it. And I couldn't even imagine having a boy now. So when I found out this one was going to be another girl, I kind of did the, I did like the Michael Jordan fist pump in our kitchen when we found out because I just, I love it so much, man.

It's changed me in such a good way. It's made me a better person. I just couldn't imagine my life without her now, you know? Well, wait, if you rode that one out all the way until the delivery room, why did you spoil the surprise this time? So we were going to, but then with what things going on and stuff, and there's like different rules at the hospital. And like, it's just the whole experience was, I don't want to say ruined, but it was

going to be very different. You know, family's not allowed there. I'm barely allowed. there. So we were like, let's just, you know, and we wanted to be prepared with the way shopping has been, you know, so we were like, let's just, you know, it's just a weird time. So, I mean, if there was ever a time that you'd want to be home, now seems like the perfect time for you to be. It is nice, yes. I mean, my wife, you know, like you said, is very pregnant and needs the help too, a lot of times. She can't be running around with this

crazy three-year-olds and running around singing songs and trolls and dancing and the things I'm required to do every day, you know. Is your wrestling school still There's the there's the mug again There it is Oh yeah I wish I had a creative pro one too So we just changed it

Yeah is creative pro Doing anything right now I know there's a lot of We shut it down About exactly two months ago When this all really hit Just out of like Obviously the whole world

We thought it would be kind of Foolish to keep it open You know So right now it's there We're just waiting to get back out I miss it like dearly This is the longest I haven't been in a wrestling ring since I was 18. So I'm dying. You know, I want to, it's like, you know,

where I belong kind of thing. So I'm itching to get back there. I love coach and I love training. I love just being in ring shape, you know, it's just kind of eating me alive that I can't do that. You can, I mean, it's your ring. You can get back there any time and just, you know, bump a little. It's also like 35 years old. I really need to go and just take bumps by myself, you know, and add to that bump card for no reason. And I'll wait until we can all safely get in there and have like a kick-ass sweaty practice, you know, the way I like to. I mean, some other companies, some other wrestling schools have been doing Zoom seminars or something like that.

Is that anything you've considered? Yeah. So when you join the school, we have like a private Facebook group where we interact and there and we were putting in classic matches and critiquing them and all having these open discussions about. I mean, why is this a great match? Why do you like this match? Things like that, you know, why did so-and-so do that, you know?

So we opened up the learning in that aspect, which we love to do too. I mean, we have promo days there. have a tape study like that anyway at the school. So a little bit of everything. So how is this release different from the first release that you had in 2014? Oh, it's not even comparable for me at least. In 2014, I was dying to go. You know, like I was, it was probably the worst point in my career.

And it sounds maybe idiotic to say, you know, you're making six figures and working for the but like I was being paid basically I got hurt in 2012 and never ever got like full-time travel again like not even close like it'd be months and then I'd go to a random TV and then months off so I felt like I was being paid to not participate in something that I love like to no end so the way it made me feel was so awful that like I couldn't wait like I just wanted to go somewhere you know even if I wrestled in a VFW in front of 25 people just to feel appreciating. was like what I wanted. You know, I wanted to do my craft and be appreciated no matter what. And I felt so, you know, it's weird. To be paid, to not participate in something you love was just an awful, awful feeling for me. So when I got that call in 2014, at first I thought they were going to like make you go to the PC and do something. And I was like, come on. And they just fired me. I'm like, yes, to fire? Okay. Yeah. I don't know why. Like, looking back on it, maybe I should have just banned up and quit or something. But it was one of the best things that ever happened. And then from there, you went straight into the Indies.

Yeah, I got fired on Thursday. I wrestled Friday, Saturday, and just never stopped literally every weekend for two years straight. Travel to world, travel to country. Work for global force. Work for impact. So many awesome places that I still have great relationships with. I loved it. I got signed, you know, Zach and I or Matt, we got signed at 20 years old.

So we didn't get to experience all that stuff. And I was, I love wrestling in all shapes and sizes, you know, whether it's WNW or like I said in a BFW in front of 20 people. I freaking love for wrestling. So I needed to get all that out of my system anyway, and I had a great time doing it. So what's different about this time around? I just wasn't expecting it. I mean, I can be completely honest with you and everybody watching or listening to this. Like, I had just signed the previous spring, a five-year contract.

I did some time in 2018 as a producer even when I got hurt. And I was just kind of not, I mentally was like, okay, this is my life. You know, I signed this long-term deal. This is where I'm going to be. You know, the seeds have been planted for like a career out of the ring with WWE. You know, so I was really cemented in mentally and in my heart is being a part of this WV family for a long time to come, you know. So it was shocking.

And I didn't expect them to let go so many people in the middle of this pandemic when, And I mean, even to write down, no other wrestling company has done so, but somehow the most powerful one in the world did. It's a little head scratchy. You know, I don't make those decisions, but it is what it is. Well, I had Aiden English on recently. And, you know, he was quick to point out, it wasn't just the names that you saw that were released. It's everyone that was working, you know, corporate in the office. They wiped up the entire live event department.

Every single person that was part of making live events go, you know, market reps and the people behind the scenes and all these guys that work on these live events. or either furloughed or let go. No, it's very sad. I mean, it's crazy sad, especially, you know, that WV is like a big family. Like I said, you're with these people more than your immediate family most times, you know. And you're with them for the best and the worst, you know, traveling these hard schedules and, you know, it's tough. I would have to think, though, that the worst is over. I would have to think that stuff is starting to open up.

Are you hopeful that, you know, maybe you could go back there? I you know obviously it's never say never and some people I think I have a great relationship with w you know people with the worst relationship ever have to come back so uh I would never say never I can't just sit around and wait for that and you know feel sorry for myself that's just not my style I'm super excited I mean after the I'd say about the 24 hour shock of being let go it's like rear view mirror for me you know I'm I'm moving ahead I want to do things I want to do while I still can while I'm still young and healthy and feel great. And pre-pandemic, pro wrestling was like unreal booming on fire all over the place.

So the possibilities and the opportunities are so endless and exciting. So whatever. It's like dwelling on an ex-girlfriend. I'm not going to sit around and wait for her to call me. You know, like, I'm going to go out and live my life. But the interesting thing is wrestling went from the highest of highs last year, 2019, the best time to be a wrestler, best time to be a wrestling fan.

And now it has gone to the lowest of low. And it's just crazy how quickly that happened. I mean, life, things change, man. That's life. You're right. And you got to just roll with the punches. So I think from this low, we're going to see maybe even a high or high

because the wrestlers, the fans, everybody is going to be so appreciative of the art of pro wrestling when it's finally back in its live form the way it's supposed to be. I think it's going to be really exciting time. Well, I mean, you're a wrestler, but you were first a wrestling fan. So when you're watching, you know,

the content that's going on right now, as a wrestling fan, what's your take on watching these matches or participating in these matches without fans? I mean, obviously I understand it and why it has to go on and the legality of it, I guess. But like I said,

wrestling is live, performance art and it's not meant to be done, you know, the way it's being done right now. And that's unfortunate. And really, it just breaks my heart, you know. All these, like, you know, probably pretty unbelievable moments. You know, Becky Lynn's announcing a pregnancy or, you know, Brody Lee appearing at AEDUB, like these things that the reactions of this, they were buildings jammed with people, it's just like sad for me as a wrestling fan to see that, like, they're still doing it and it was cool and all, but man, would have missed, like, unbelievable, unforgettable thing that these moments could have been.

And it's just sad. And I understand it. It is what it is. And at least it's, I guess, better than nothing, you know? I feel like, on one hand, it's been this tiny little slice of normalcy going, look, there still is something live going on on TV when all the other sports have been canceled. But at the same time, then you watch these matches and you hear the echo of, you know, the feet in the ring and you go, oh, maybe life isn't.

normal. It's not. It's definitely normal. Like, wrestling's not meant to be presented like that. It's just, it is what it is. Do you have a, you know, do you have a plan in place? Obviously, you being released in 2014. Probably helped you kind of prepare for something like this. Oh, yeah. I mean, like I said, I have so many contacts and,

you know, awesome relationships that I established back then. I still, you know, friends that I've made and things like that. So, and like I said, wrestling, there's so much opportunity everywhere. I think getting fired, like I said, I was not expecting us at all. So it really did blindsime where I wasn't thinking about, oh, man, where could Brian Myers, you know, the Prince of Queens wrestle next?

I wasn't even on my radar because to me it wasn't even a possibility. So it was a big shock. But I sat and I thought about it. And I was like, okay, I was making a lot of money in WWD, more money than I ever fathom. You know, my childhood dream come true. I had some incredible moments and things that are unforgettable. I have my family in my house and I'm happy. And Matt and I have this podcast, which even if in WWB,

if you get creatively stifled, we have this podcast that's an incredible, creatively creative outlet for us where we just go wild and really embrace, you know, how much we still love pro wrestling and things like that. But the one thing, the one thing that really bothered me, and then I really didn't, I feel like I had any control of it, is that my in-ring career, bell to bell, had been stifled to seven-minute matches on main event. And I was going out there to the best of my abilities

and making the most of those situations. Like, you know, I've never, ever not given 110% in any match I've ever had, ever. But there's only so much you can do in that situation. So I feel like the biggest positive I'm going to pull out of this whole thing is that while I'm still young, healthy, in the prime of my career, I can go out and have barn burners with whoever, wherever, wherever I go, and really cement the legacy of my career in the ring, you know, bell to bell, where it just was kind of flatlined. You know, I feel like that's the opportunity I've been given in this firing, if you will,

you know. What's really ironic about your career is you got the most over by losing, like a lot. And it's just so ironic that it took you putting a whole bunch of people over for you to get over. It's one of the most proud things I've ever done in my career is I took literally nothing and turned into something. And I took something that, and this is no shot, but 95% of my colleagues that I ever had would sit around and boo boo-boo-faced about it and be completely pissed off. And I just shoved it up. Everyone's ass turned into something cool because I had the foresight to see. it, you know, and it paid off. It really paid off. I mean, I got to win the raw tech team titles

in my hometown from my friends and family at WrestleMania, you know, and I honestly, I never had more fun during the losing streak. I never made more money. So it's just like people, at the end of the day, wrestling is a show, and you got to remember that sometimes, you know, so everyone plays their part, you know, not everyone, I always say this whole time, not everyone can be Roman Reigns. Rome Raines is the man, he's got a cool-ass spot, he makes a ton of money. But that's his thought, you know, then there's only a handful of those. Not everyone can have that, you know, if everyone on the show just won all the time, what the hell can a show would that be, you know?

So, you know, I just spun into something funny. It just became this thing, it's life of its own. And, like, we could be in the middle of nowhere and some live event. And, like, people really cared about my match. Like, they wanted to be there to say they saw me win, you know, that final time, you know. Even if they didn't know why I was Kurt Hawkins, whatever. They just knew, oh, it's a guy that loses all the time. Oh, my God, you know.

And they were invested in what I was doing. And it was the best feeling, you know. Speaking of Roman Raines, I just saw him in a Netflix movie that came out this week with David Spade called The Wrong Missy. So, yes, Roman Raines is the man. He's ever worth. He's my favorite. He's your favorite. He's my favorite top guy I've ever share a locker room with.

Okay. The way he treats everybody, the mutual respect, I think the voice apprehend he has for the boys. He doesn't act like he's bigger than, you know, somebody else. And he's just very fair and cool. That's all you need when you're one of the boys. I read in another interview that you didn't realize you were on a losing streak until someone basically put it out there that you had lost 100 in a row. And I find that so hard to believe that you're going out there and losing for 99 matches and not realizing.

I had just been putting that spot. So I'm not like, I don't know. It might sound weird. Like I said, I'm going to work and I'm doing what I'm told is doing it through the best of my buildings. But I wasn't showing up like, oh, man, I hope I get a win today. Like I just don't think like that, you know. So you just look at the match card and just went, oh, I'm losing to this person. I mean, when I got the streak, that was the best part.

Think about all the politics that go into pro wrestling, like, who's going to win and this and that. That part of my job was completely taken out. So I'm going in like, oh, yeah, dude. What do you want to do? What's your finish? Oh, cool. I'll take that awesome. You know, like, I wipe that out.

So think about, like, the ease I had going into work every day. And then that somebody wrote like an article, like on a dirt sheet or something. And fans were like, I think tagging me in it, like mocking me on Twitter. And I was like, okay, that's definitely true. Like, I'm sure I've lost 100 matches in a row. I mean, I had been yet that went nowhere. I didn't even win coming out of those when I came back. So like, I didn't really have, you know, these crazy high expectations.

I just wanted to have fun and do my job and do it well. Did you then start keeping track of your losses? That's when I started to. And I think the initial, to me, I was like, oh, if I can get. get to like 150. That would be like epic. And then we got past 150 and get to like 200. I'm like, 200's got to be the one where they're going to be like, okay, let's do something. 200 comes and goes and I'm like, holy smokes. Maybe, I mean, it was fun and it all worked out. But I was like, I kept thinking there was a couple times that maybe, okay, that's a lot of losses.

Maybe this will stop, you know, you would think of, you know, take a step back. If wrestling was real, if someone was that bad at their job, you know, technically, you think they would like be fired or something, you know, character wise. Yeah, well, so was there ever point where you got to TV and they were like, oh, yeah, you know, you're in this three-minute match of main event and you're going to beat, you know, so-and-so. There was a hundred percent. There was a time. I'll never forget it. I guess it was August, 2017, coming off of that Summer Slam in Brooklyn.

Yeah. And that was, it was me versus later on main event. And I guess in the meeting, Vince was like, we're in Hawkins hometown. Let's let's give a win. Like, you know, and this writer came out to tell me, and he was like super excited. Like, hey, you're going to beat Slater. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. And I was like, I have the street phone.

I was probably at like 120-ish by then or whatever. And I was like, oh, like, I kind of want to like ride this out and see where it can go. It's kind of exciting. Like beating Heath. I mean, event's going to be forgotten by the time I leave the building. Like, that's not worth it for me. And then I could tell the guy was like hesitant. And I'm like, look, I was like, everyone's wearing my streak in this company,

acceptance. Am I right? And say? And he's like, that's probably sure. I was like, can you just tell him? You know, he explained and he like, thank God. He kind of went to back from he explained it to him. He was like, okay.

I mean, I'm sure that's not a request he gets very often from talent, but it was worth it. And I'm sure it's not a match that, you know, he even watched or even remembered anyway. So the funny thing about that is I made, that's another thing. People just boo boo-boo face about being on main event. Like, it's not important. That show airs all over the world. Makes millions of dollars for the company and TV rights, okay? you're always on first or second.

The crowd is unreal hot, no matter if you're a high-level guy they know, and Joe Schmo. The crowd's just hot and excited to see wrestling. So that's exciting to go out there every time. And throughout my last run in doing these matches, Vince is preparing for the show sitting in his office and he has a monitor. And he's watching that. So like a lot of pushes and, you know, career changes have kind of come from him just sitting there not being bothered by, and when actually getting his undivided attention sitting alone in his office to watch your match.

So it's way different than even... I've seen matches live on Raw where there's like a barm burner going on, but there's four writers and producers running in and out asking him questions where there's no way he even saw like one move in that match. You know what I mean? Yeah. What a positive spin to put on that.

I like that. There's been playing that. I won't name the talent, but there was one time I remember. It was supposed to be a certain person against Calisto. And then the talents at something like don't ever book me on that effen show ever like it's beneath me or whatever so like last minute they threw me in against calisto and calisto i haven't working in live in so we had like a match that i could do in my sleep but it was a very fun you know all his lucha like you know

basic em for cool things and whatever do it knock it out of the park whatever it's just you know another day at the office for me but Vince watched it and i think he's pulled calisto aside and he pulled me aside and he told someone else like oh god damn that match is good shit you know that kind of thing So like, I don't know. When you first, you know, realize, hey, I could turn this thing into a storyline. Who did you have to approach about that? And when you pitched them the idea of like, I just want to keep this losing streak going, what kind of response is that met with?

I think for sure people, like I said, in business, especially people are sensitive about losing these matches and stuff. You know, the perception of it is never good. But I was like, let's just go for it. I'll be the best loser in the world. Like, let me just keep riding this out and see where it goes. that day in Brooklyn where it was brought to Vince's attention was a big turning point. I did that where I was supposed to beat the local on Roar and Corbyn kind of screws me over and slanted

to a table of tacos. That was a big turning point. I appreciated the crowd chanting. We want tacos to really. Yeah. It was just like that was like, okay, like this is going to work. Like if you just let it happen. And then there was a couple times where they put the ticker up on Raw for my matches and things like that.

And then finally I had I just. I had like a main event match. I was all like, you know, you got that adrenaline flowing. And I had noticed on my way out or to a guerrilla, like there was like a line of superstars outside Vince's office. I was like, oh, God, one of those days. And then I had this match. I just had my adrenaline flow, and I felt like, it's a good pump.

And I'm just like, and I'm walking past his office and he hadn't come out yet to go to Gorilla for Raw. And I was like, you know, let's screw this. Oh, I knocked in. I was like, look, like, the streak is, there's something going on. I just need your help. I don't need to win. Not at all.

I don't need anything like that, but I just need weekly representation on television as a reminder to the fans. That's it. I was like, I've done everything on my end, like on social media and at live events and on main event. I was like,

I just need that little help from you with the exposure. And he was like, he was all bored. And then I got hernia like two weeks later. So like I want to say it was like a following league. Yeah. But that's when he made me a producer for two months. Nice.

Well, what was your best case? long-term scenario because obviously it played out really well, winning the tag titles, in your hometown at WrestleMania. I mean, that was pretty incredible. But when you first started this, what in your mind was your best case scenario? I literally tried to not think about it because then I was like, then I'll go crazy if I'm trying to figure out like this, that.

I thought there was like the mania prior. I was like, man, winning Andre would be kind of cool, you know, or at least being in there for the end where people are like, oh shit, is this it? You know, like just to have that moment. That was like the only time I ever even like kind of inched towards like maybe, you know, because I just didn't think about it. And then the way it ended was so above and beyond my wildest dreams anyway. So, you know, the patience kind of just paid off for me.

I was there. I was there at WrestleMania. And like the crowd erupted because it's such a relatable underdog story. It's so easy. Like I said, Roman Raines rules. But not everyone can be Roman Raines. You've got to tell different stories and you've got to have everybody on the card. You know, if they're involved, doing little different things.

And like I said before, just having some kind of representation on the show. It just helps everybody and it helps the show overall, I think. And I'm always going to feel that way. Is the plan moving forward for you to wrestle under your real name? Yeah. I mean, I established that the first firing. And I think Matt and I have really established it with our fan base with the podcast. So there's no need.

And, you know, I'm one of those weirdest. I've loved wrestling since I can remember. I was five years old. I saw a wrestling and six and just have literally never stopped loving it. And I never, I think I was just such a fan. I didn't think that these guys were characters. Like I just thought Holcogne was Hulk Hogan. There's no way he's Terry Bolaea from Tampa.

You know, like he's Hulk Hogan. So in my mind, I'm like, I'm Brian Myers. That's who I have to be when I'm a wrestler, because that's what people's names are. I just, I don't know. Ultimate War, it was ultimate word in me. I just, I don't know. It didn't make any sense. I feel like like a new era.

of wrestling is being ushered in with everyone working under the real name because you think back, we're about the same age so you think back, the only people who wrestle under their real names are the people who had names outside of wrestling. Kurt-A-R-Lesner, Dan Severn, Tankout.

Everyone else got a gimmick name. That's true. I mean, I think for the voice sake and legality, like, whatever, the stronger you can make your brand and it's your name that you own forever and no one's ever going to take that you, you're better off.

So you're now Myers underscore wrestling on social media. Yeah. I figured that it was time to let that the Kurt Hawkins handle go. I can't imagine being on someone else's television with that in the lower third. I don't think any promoter would appreciate that. I imagine

you probably looked for Brian Myers probably got taken many, many years ago. My name is so generic that prior to meeting my wife, I could even like meet women. be like, find me on Facebook. And they're like, which one are you? There's seven million Brian, you know, so.

You're like, no, it's the Brian with an eye, okay? Yeah, it was not easy to, I wanted it my Instagram and my Twitter to be the same. And it was just not easy, man. It was, I got it done, but. What is in this mug, by the way, that you keep flashing for everybody? This is a bang energy drink, actually. Oh, okay. I wasn't sure if you were drinking coffee or tea.

No, probably going to go get a little, we'll work out in when we're done here. Are you plugging bang energy? I love bang. Bang once to send me some free bangs. Well, there we go. It's happening now. Are you going to keep the long hair? Yeah, you know, that was like another kind of crappy thing about being fired the first time.

I had like, I got hurt and I cut my hair and I was trying to come back to WWs, you know, with some kind of changes and it just never happened. So like, I got fired. Hadn't been on TV like consistently like two years and I looked different. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm really, like, digging a hole for myself here. I love having long hair. All the rest is, like, that I admired growing up, had long, cool hair, you know, bright Hart's old Michael's Mr. Perfect kind of thing. I pretty much, after that experiment of cutting it off,

I pretty much decided that I'm going to, you know, ride it out Michael Hayes style until the day I die. And, you know, be a long-haired brother is my, that's my mission now. How do you look? Your short hair looked good. I was a little bit jealous of how that looked. Yeah, I have a really, talented barber from my hometown, Glencove, Bride Biz, and he's incredible.

And I thought it was cool. It just never, it never, like, got me on television or anything. So I was like, when I picture pro wrestler, I picture a long, long hair, you know, long wet hair for whatever reason. So, you know, the guys you just listed with the long hair, those are the guys that you grew up idolizing? Those were your favorites? Yeah, my first crop of, like, favorite wrestlers, like,

just from seeing it, jump was obviously ultimate water because of just, you know, the neon and the over-the-topness, and then the rockers are like my the all-end all as a kid. And I really love Texas tornado when I was a kid. Like those were my first, those are my first, first, very rep.

The next era, like 10 years later was... And it was like Mr. Perfect and Brett and Sean forever and ever. They know it's Roman rains. No, no, Roman, yeah, he's the best. But I don't know. I look at things differently now, like through like a worker's eye and stuff.

Like, I love Chris Candido is one of my all-time favorites. I love Brian Hillman, Eddie Guerrero. There's quite a few. Raven. It's one of my all-tharm favorites. All right, I got to take a minute to thank our sponsor for this episode, betonline.ag. And there is no shortage of action going on at our exclusive partner, BetOnline.

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to discuss the Michael Jordan documentary on what they're calling the final dance. Visit betonline.ag. Use the promo code Bluewire to receive your new welcome bonus and check out all the action there. Bet Online, it's your online wagering solution. Growing up as a huge wrestling fan and now being a wrestler,

has it made you love the business more, or has it made you see some kind of cracks in the system here and go? Oh, of course, but I like this much. I think being a professional wrestler is such a gift, almost, you know, a privilege. That's the word I'm looking for, a privilege. And if you don't love it, you don't belong in it because it's so strange and it's unlike absolutely anything else in the whole world. No other business, no other art.

It's just like all to its own like between everything, you know, the pageantry and the politics and the this and that and athletics, you know. So I always told myself, if I ever lost that like boyhood wonder about it, then it's not worth it, you know? Like if I didn't love it like I did when I was five, then I should probably not put so much effort into something that's so insane like it is. So I've always tried to maintain that. I imagine being a producer probably made you love it more, though.

I mean, I had that awesome talk for Vince. I got hernia. I think, I actually think, and he denies it, but I think it was picking Zach Ryder up on a live event and slamming him. I got a hernia. I was nervous. It was such a low hernia. I thought something was wrong with my testicles.

I was like pretty nervous. And then I got to the doctor and they were like attorney and I was almost like, oh, thank God. Yeah. Got it all situated, scheduled surgery, called the office, explained like, okay, they're like, cool. And I'm like, okay, it's like a two-month thing. That was like September 2018. So I was like, man, you know, weather is nice and cool. Football starting on two months off and hang out on my daughter and just kind of chill.

Like, you know, I've been on the road two years straight at that point, like really hard, plus the Indies and years before that. I was like, cool. explained everything in the office, done deal. The next day, Mark Corona called me, he goes, inside your name on the injure report. And he thinks that you, it'd be good for you to start, like, as like an understudy producer the whole time you're out. And I was like, okay.

Who did you study? So it was flattering. Yeah, it was flattering to be picked for something like that. But I was like, oh, man, I was so checked out. I was ready for this cool two-month vacation here. And then I wound up working probably more hurt than I would have as a talent because I was going on both TVs, suit, tie, the whole, all that, you know, but absolutely awesome learning experience to be in there and see, like, really how the wheels

are turning and how things get done. I would love to stay here right now, a whole new appreciation for the writers who get so much shit, the producers that get so much shit. Like, their job is so thankless and difficult. And sometimes, like, there is no right answer because you're not going to get it. You know what I mean? And it's hard. It's very, very hard.

And it's just cool. It made me a better performer. You know, I could see how things work, you know, things like that. So I was looking forward to when it was over and I got cleared. I told Vince's face, I said, thank you so much. This was a very flattering experience. And I learned a lot. But like, you know, steal one from Jim Ross.

Father time is undefeated. And I need to get in the ring until my body tells me no. You know, because my head for this and my heart will always be there. I can always be a producer. Yeah. If you were an understudy for someone, who were you studying under? To me, the most untouchable producer. Well, there's two.

I think right now it's Jamie Noble who's like, I don't, I mean, he can barely read and write, but he's like a pro wrestling genius. It's insane. He's just incredibly gifted at his job. And the other one who I think, like, when it's all said and done, might be the greatest of all time, will be Tyson Kid, T. DJ Wilson. I mean, he is one of my dear best friends in the whole world, but his passion and his mind for the business is like unparalleled. There's no reason that you, you know, when your

wrestling career finally does end in 30 years or whatever you wanted to end, there's no reason that you can't work as a producer full time. No, I know, I, it's something I would love to do. But like I said before, being in the ring and being a pro wrestler is such a privilege. And, you know what? I've been really, you know what's really inspired me in this? the past year is seeing Dustin Rhodes and Chris Jericho at their age still perform at like a ridiculously top level. So it's like I'm 15 years younger than these guys. So like I'm not even close to done. You're only halfway through. If I put in the work like they have, you know, to stay on top and to stay, you know, physically active, I can do it, you know.

The thing about that blows me away about Jericho is of course he takes care of himself, but he also still parties like the literal rock star. Well, that's a different story. But yeah, But I think it's like on top of his ringwork, it's his mind for staying relevant and, you know, and just kind of just having his finger on the pulse at all times. And he's done that for 30-something years, much less just, you know, in the past year. So it's if you want to do it, it could be done. You just got to put in the work and, you know, to make it happen. Just like anything else. I always say if someone out there is doing the same thing that you want to do, that just means it's possible that you can do it too.

Exactly, yeah. When you look back on both runs in WWE, does it kind of bother you that you didn't have a, you know, full-on singles run that led to some sort of championship? Not really, because I had some pretty special moments. I've done some, like, incredible things and just, I don't have to sit back and harp, like, on something like that. Maybe one day I'll start thinking like that. I mean, I think, like, right now is the time. Matt and I have decided that we're only going to take tag. We like tagging, but we don't want that to be here.

thing. Like, you know, if the Rock and Roll Express or the Headbangers want to work with us, like that's worth it. You know, like 100% do that. Like, that's, you know, dream scenarios. I think the American males answered our challenge on Twitter, so I'm looking forward to making that a reality. Oh, yeah, really? Yeah. So things like that are very exciting. But I think now, like I said, the prime of my career, I'm unreal healthy for somebody who's been doing this for 16 years at a full-time schedule like I have. And like I said, my career was stifled in these seven-minute main event matches. And now I can go out there and make these towns, do 25-minute barmer,

and show people that I'm one of the most fucking talented wrestlers in the whole world. And I believe that. My heart and in my mind and my confidence and I've had the experiences to back it up. And I'm ready to prove that. Yeah. So we're fucking excited. When you talk about those highs and those lows, what is the one moment that you look back on and you go, man, that's what that's what makes it all worthwhile.

To me, ending the streak, like I said, I had the patience and the foresight and the not being a mark for myself, NIST, if that's even a thing, to like just go with this, just to go with this. Like I felt like it was something and it could be something. And then the payoff, which I say to people all the time, in WV, when you go to your hometown, you normally get like, you know, shot with sewage or something. Like, you know, good things don't happen to you. I got to literally win the raw technique championship

my best friend and my podcast partner and a guy I met at wrestling school we were 18 years old in our hometown. It was just like such a cool payoff that I never even imagined. So the sentimental aspect of that, that takes the cake. Yeah, well, let's dive into that for a minute.

Tell me about the day. Take me back to the day when you and Zach Ryder met for the first time. And did you instantly go, all right, we're going to be best friends? No, not at all. We hate each other. We didn't hate each other, but we were very leery of each other because it was like wrestling's competitive. We saw somebody the same age, same height, same haircut. And we're like, I don't like this, dude. And we were very like standoffish with each other. So somewhere along the lines, like wrestling figures broke the ice. And that's been like, you know, the glue that's kept us together for all these years is our common obsession with collecting wrestling figures. And that really like, especially at that time, you know, the business was a little more. protected and hardened and you weren't going to just go wrestling from and be like, I'm 18 and I collect wrestling

figures. It's not something you're going to just openly say out loud and, you know, room full all these new guys, you know. So somehow like that was like our little secret and our little hobby and that that's what like broke the ice and the unit. How'd that even come up for the first time?

Did one of you bring a wrestling figure to just class or something? I don't. I really don't know. I have no memory of like with the first moment was. I really don't. I don't know how we like figure it out. Because like I said, it was like a little dark secret.

We weren't just like openly telling each other. There's a famous story that I'll retell here. If people haven't heard it, I know that you can get a lot of views and people might want to hear this. So, so WrestleMania 20, obviously it was in Madison Square Garden. Another thing is Matt and I grew up from each other like 15 minutes from each other in Long Island. And we attended an insane amount of the same shows at the Coliseum, the garden, autographs signings. Like, there's so many times we're like in the proximity of each other, you know, throughout our lives until we actually met.

So, WrestleMania 20 is right before we met, uh, March 2004 at the Garden, big event. And Jacks, who made the W.W. Figures in the time made a set of six guys commemorating the show. It had WrestleMania 20 packaging. The guys were in the outfits that they wore at the show. So at the time, we were going to the same summer school, like a college or whatever. and we were taking classes. And my buddy found them at Toys R Us. And he called me that morning and he goes, hey, man, I found a case of them.

So a case, there's a set of six. There's two sets and there's 12 guys. He goes, I took six, a set for me. There's another set. I hid them old school Toys R Us style in the Rafters for you. So I'm like, okay, cool. So I'm just meeting Matt. We're becoming friends, like, barely know each other.

But we know we're going to be a tag team and like, you know, something's going on. So I call him. This is before class. He had, we had two different classes, but at the same time. I said, hey, man, my buddy just called me. I know you're looking for these figures. They're red hot. Like, no one had seen them yet, like in, you know, in the store.

And I said, obviously there's only one set, but, you know, I'll split it with you. Like, I get three and you get three and then we'll piece together the rest some other time, but at least it's a start, you know, for both things. Oh, cool, man. Thanks so much. Thank you for doing that. Yeah, yeah. So we go to class, you know, 90 minutes later.

We both race over at Toys R Us. We meet in the park and we go in, dig it through the raft. nothing, no figures. I'm just like, man, I guess someone, you know, that's the oldest trick in the bucket. Like, whatever, someone found him, you know, we'll find him soon, whatever. He's like, okay, you're no problem. I have no idea why.

But two or three years later, on a drunken night, he admits to me that when I called him that day, he hung up the phone, called his down and goes, Dad, can you go to the Torgress and get this whole set of figures that's in the rafters? No. Yeah, by my back. And then I don't know if, like, the guilt was eating him alive or whatever. that he just randomly, drunkenly told me years later, that that's what he did.

The fact that he played along, though, and went to the star and went, oh, I can't hear. I know. I know. That's like the real, like, this guy is something wrong. Wow. Yeah. It's like a total heel move. Geez. Yep.

Like a real life heel. Yeah. Have you started to think about who your character is going to be, who Brian Myers is going to be when you can step foot into a ring again? I have thought of that, but I think. with the major wrestling figure podcast and how, like, and even the way I'm being with you right now, I have nothing to hide, man.

I just, I lay it all out there. Like, I am who I am. I don't think at this point me becoming, you know, the boogeyman is really on the table. You know,

people, like, I've bared my soul in this show, and our fans are so, they're so committed and so loyal that, like, I just think Brian, with that pro wrestling volume turned up is all I'd really need to be at this point.

You know, I've been doing this too long. You know, people know who I am and what I'm about. They know my, you know, I always think like the storylines in television where someone's dating so-and-so, when you know that like, okay, they're on Instagram with their family, like, it just doesn't make sense anymore, this day and age of pro wrestling, you know. So I think who I am and what I'm doing is like, you know, just with that volume turned is all needs to be.

I just think you're so underrated in the ring. Thanks, man. It's been so long since we've actually been able to see what you. can do. Actually, what was the last time? Can you think back to the last match where you really had a chance to go out there and leave it all in the ring? I don't think I had that opportunity in WWE because like I said, I was playing that, you know, the losing streak role, which obviously you're not really going to have barn burners with people. You know, I never had, besides mania, actually, my last match was the kickoff on pay-per-view. Besides that, I don't think

I had any other pay-per-view appearances where, like, you know, the time was allotted. We had a couple with like revival and the Ousus where we were giving two SEGs on raw and maybe maybe the Viking Raiders once or twice but like that opportunity just really wasn't there so we'd have to take it back to 2015 maybe you know some indie matches that you were oh for sure in the indies I mean I went all over the place you know uh you real IW in Cleveland I did PWG I did Alpha One in Canada beyond in Rial and like places like that where I got to really just kind of I saw Slater on your show

where he was like man I just want to I want to fly like a bird. You know birds? You know birds that fly? That's me. Yeah. You know, that's where you,

you know, you get the chance to just open up creatively. I actually told to eat that on the phone. I said, dude, man, once you get out there and you realize this isn't a seven-minute main event match and,

you know, people are chanting your name and it's like riding a bike and you remember, you know, you're going to feel like a million bucks, man. But where's the balance, though,

between making, you know, $500,000 bucks, whatever your rate happens to be on the Indies and doing it in front of the 500 people that are there or going out there and making the six figures in WWE, but not having those long matches. Where's the balance there? I think if, and I kind of said it before, if I didn't have the

podcast as my like creative outlet, I would have just went kind of nuts in this last run, you know, but thank God Matt had the idea and it took off and became an all another thing of its own, you know, pretty wildly successful and fun and satisfying. So I think if I didn't have that, that some of that would get real old, man, big time. Especially when I first came back for Boys Night, we called it the live events I did for the first two plus years. We called it the Gibroni tag. There was always a, there was always like an eight man or sometimes a ten man

with just whoever's left over basically. And like, you're getting in there for one spot and getting out, you know. It's harder to put your boots and gear on it is to actually perform. So that's the fine line. I was making more mind I ever made in my career. More mine I ever could have imagined, you know, in pro wrestling. So like, and again, like, it's not real, you know, I'm not really losing. I'm not really this, you know, I'm playing my role in this film, you know.

I'm not one of the Ninja Turtles. I'm a foot soldier. It is what it is. It's still a spot. Like a putty in Power Rangers? Yeah, and you explode. Except that I didn't get hurt that often. Are we going to be a return of the cane?

No, you know what? I was so... The cane stem from me being the biggest Brian Pillman Mark. And I love lights out ECW debut and he's in there with the cane, which is a shoot because he's got a car accident. But I just thought it looked so cool in the dude with the cane. And I was like gung-ho and like getting it over. And like I feel like I have, like people finally like... I never really got to use it the way I wanted to, you know, like cheap shot people and things like that.

Like it could have been more. But I got like action figures that come with it and people associate me with it. that when last year when they put Zach and I back together on television, I guess Vince did something like, I really want them to be taken seriously. So he was forbidden to do the woo-woo and Broski and all that. And then he said no more cane for me. And I was like, you know what?

The most powerful man pro wrestling said, no more cane, no more cane. So it was a good run. And I really just rib myself by traveling all over the world with it, which was an unreal pain in the ass, but I did it. Yeah. Yeah, that counts as your carry-on, right? Oh, no, I mean, I hate to admit this. But a lot of times I'd have to almost like work it and pretend like it was something I really needed or they would take it.

I can't just like I have this cane as a prop. They're like, well, you can't travel. I'd have to like kind of like Yoda onto the plane a couple times. So like, you know, I could just get to TV with my stupid cane. I want to ask you about wrestling figures. Obviously, my knowledge of it is extremely small. But some basic things here. How many wrestling figures do you have?

because I'm sure you can. Of you, of you. Of you, of myself? Quite a few. In the teens, high teams, I would say. Impressive? Yeah. So we have a, I'm pretty blown away. And it's something I just sit back and reflect on. We have almost like a legends figure coming out and it's edge and it comes with my head and Matt's head. And you could just the heads. The idea, the marketing idea behind is that you have to buy three and you can have the edge and his edge heads from that run. and it's labeled under the flashback packaging. So, like, essentially we have, like,

legends figures coming out, which I was like, that's kind of mind-blower that. I've been doing this long enough to have something like that. Yeah. I'm glad you brought up Edge. What do you think was the biggest takeaway

that you got from working with him? I tell the evil, man, that year, Matt and I got to watch, in my opinion, 2008. He is the best wrestler in the whole world. Five-tool player, hands-down, best pro wrestling in the whole world.

world and he's the world champion and we got to watch him day in, day out from the best seats in the house, study and learn and literally sit in the back, you know, in a circle with him and Undertaker call match and then go out and do it. Like, how invaluable is that learning experience? Like, who else has done that in their career? You know, and that's the kind of experiences that we got to have. And it was for almost a year straight, you know? So it was like seeing what it takes to be the WWE champion and be good at it and be successful

I mean, it's just totally invaluable. And then beyond that, and you kind of touched on it before. You know, in the business, you know, you love when you're a kid and it's so innocent. Then you get involved and there's all these other aspects. And it's like, there's been for sure people that I've idolized that you meet and they're the biggest letdown ever. And it's like, holy smokes. But then when you meet guys that you idolized and marked out for and then they're the fucking coolest guys ever, like Edge. Yeah.

Then it's like, you can't beat that feeling. You know what I mean? So he's been just the man. And we still call him on Uncle Adam. him always in contact with him. I always ask him for advice and things like that. And really, he took a chance on Matt and I, and he had no clue who we were, man.

It was just a dumb pitch we threw against the wall, and he literally saved our careers. But, I mean, when you think about that pitch, like here's a guy who's a main event player, and you're basically saying, hey, can we kind of be your lackeys? That is definitely, like, shooting for the stars. It was wild, and he had no reason to say yes, like whatsoever.

Why do you think he did? I don't know. I don't know, man. And our relationship with him at the time was hello and goodbye. Like, we didn't know him. Like, it's crazy. Absolutely crazy. A career, career altering decision that he made, you know.

And I think Matt said it, like, if that doesn't happen, we're probably gone in like, 0,708 at some point, you know. And our careers are a completely different path. Yeah. Yeah. And that was back in the old WWE days of like zero strikes, man. You got zero strikes and you were you. How surprised were you when, obviously, you found out he was going to make his return before he showed up at the Rumble.

But, you know, when that started, you know, the word started getting out about that. How surprised were you? Like, he let me in on some of the stuff so I wasn't that surprised. I was surprised that his neck had healed that enough to do something like that. I didn't even think that was on the table. So, I mean, it's amazing, you know. I think it's cool that his daughters will get that. to see him perform and stuff.

I think that's a lot of my motivation. Like, I want my kids to see me wrestle and see me wrestle at a high level, you know, so it's not just something they live with, you know, on the network or, you know, in photographs. Yeah. Well, what if your daughters one day want to follow in your footsteps and become wrestlers? I'd be all for it, man. You know, women's wrestling is incredible these days.

I mean, the opportunity. I mean, I trained Chris Spatlander, who's one of my, I, before Chris came along, I used to say, like, nobody's my favorite student. You know, I like you all equally. But I just go, guys, Chris is my favorite. Don't even bother. She's the best. She's my favorite student of all time.

So I think women's wrestling, it just keeps getting, you know, to new heights. So if that's something that she thinks is cool and is passionate about, I'm going to be, I'll be all for it. When Chris walked in, were you like, she's got it. Like, she's going to be great. Great. I don't know, but I knew, like, that she was gifted, like, athlete. She wasn't a fan. She wasn't really a wrestling fan.

She kind of just kind of discovered it very late. But she was just very gifted athletically where I was like, okay, like, this could be something here for sure. Who else, you know, that has trained with you that we might see elsewhere? I have a lot of talented guys. Like, I'm just so proud of the school and camaraderie that exists at Creator Pro. You know, if someone's got a bad attitude or it just doesn't fit, we go, you know, you don't need your money. Like, hit the bricks. You know, so, but I'm a student who's building me from day one named Max Caster.

I think that people are going to start to see once wrestling returns places. Obviously, MJF is one of my guys. Yeah, I'm sure of him. Pat Buck and I'm pretty proud of him and what he's done as well. There's just too many of the name. I don't want to leave anyone out. But like, it's just a great place. It's my happy place.

You know what I mean? I've always wanted to own a ring. And, you know, it's like my little playground. and then I've surrounded myself with all these other like-minded and passionate people, you know, it's a path buck and I've really protected it. It's a special place.

For someone who might be listening and they're ready, they're ready to get in the ring and start training when they're able to and they live in your area. How is it set up there? Do you do it like, is it a couple times a week? Is it, you know, intensive? Yeah. Well, now that Pat and I both don't have

weekly jobs. The schedule will probably be a little different, but we were on like a regular Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, my day, his day, and then sometimes an optional class on Sunday. But I always still got, like, we have set time for the beginners classes and, like, open ring where, you know, if there's veterans in the area, like, VSK and guys like that, you've heard of that come and work out. There's always somebody around, you know, the MJF, obviously and stuff.

I have a lot of my second. I recently went to Sean Spears and Tyler Breeze's wrestling school flatbacks, and they're basically saying this is an eight week intensive thing and by the end of the eight weeks you'll be ready to work a match okay so we don't do that at all we have a two year minimum okay wow sometimes at the end of the two years if we don't think you're ready we don't graduate you so you've a two year minimum that we need so because like I just feel like for me and pat to put our stamp on you say like we train this person you know we could say that and then we could never see you again you're going all over tell people you know maybe you're acting like a dip shit or whatever and then

it's like it reflects on us you know so we don't do that uh you got at least put the two years in and then we put the stamp on you so uh what i always say is it's just like a regular gym if you sign up to a gym and you don't go and lift weights you're not going to gain muscle you're not you know this this is the same exact thing you pay us you come you put in the work you come three maybe 40s a week you know you're going to excel in pro wrestling it's just like it's like anything else in life if you put in the work to get better you will because we'll always be here the door's all right you'll always be here the door's all always be open. The opportunity to learn is going to be plentiful. It's just wrestling is

has to be in your heart. It has to be in your mind. And when you walk out of that building, you can't just not be thinking about it, man. It has to consume you. And that's what's going to make people great. That's what separates, you know, the weekend warrior, which is totally fine. There's people, I equated to like my high school buddies playing softball. Like, that's fun. It's just something they do. And they're not trying to get to the major leagues. It's just like a recreational thing they do. That's totally fine. But, If you're trying to be to excel at this, you've got to put it in the work. Yeah.

But that's with anything. That's with whatever you're doing. 100%. Yes. So if someone walks in your door and says, I want to be a pro wrestler, what are you looking for in them? I've learned from being a coach, like, not to judge a book by its cover, because I've had guys that I literally looked at the first thing and was like, oh, boy. And then they're still there. And there's some of the hardworking guys I have.

And, like, they're talented. And then there's another case where it's like, oh, God, you know, I've had, man, we could do a whole other interview along, like, you know, the walks of life that have just come in there that's still somehow, like, the wrestling is completely fake or just like, I've had a dad go like, okay, so he signs up and then when's he on Raw? And, like, that was like a real question. And I'm like, starting with the guy like, like, this is, 2019, like, you have the internet and all these things at your fingertips to at least get some kind of. of understanding what you're getting into here or whatever. Like, I've had a kid come in and go like, yeah, I saw online that the, uh, the ring's just

a trampoline and he smacked it as he said it. And then he felt the wood and it's like, you just see like, like he saw ghost, you know, and I'm just like, oh boy, you know. And there's some people like, you know, they come in and they're so disrespectful or so like aloof and I know they don't belong. That's when I'm like, that's it. I'll crank like the Metallica and we have this hard ass practice. And I'll never see him again.

I know that, you know. But that, yeah. There's way more of those than an MJF that walks in the door. And you just got to understand that that's what's going to happen. What do you think is the biggest misconception? That it's not hard work for some reason. I think, you know, to use the F word fake for wrestling. Like, wrestling is fake in the sense that it's, you know, scripted television.

But like the athleticism and, you know, the conditioning and things like that are like very, very, very real. So I don't know why that I hate that wrestling gets that bag sometimes, you know, that rap. I trained in Toronto. I went to the squared circle many, like when I was in college. I didn't finish training because I ended up finishing my college degree. Okay. The thing that blew me away the most was how much running the ropes hurt. Like that.

Like when you first do that, you're like, oh, these things aren't bouncing at all. I'm also dreading that because, like I said, I've been out of the ring for so long. normally you're like kind of calcified and hardened and that's like that wouldn't bother me a couple months ago but now I feel like my first time back I'm gonna be it's me like literally like starting all over again you're like oh god are you gonna get bruised up again you think for sure because it's been so long yeah wow um I think it's before we wrap this up I just want to know how you became a Mets fan uh because they're not very good what are you a baseball fan I'm a baseball fan.

What's your team? Blue Jays. Okay. I mean, Blue Jays are a very cool, up-and-coming team now. I mean, they got a lot of young studs. Yeah, that's kind of a face every year. Just, it was weird. Like, when I was a kid, I kind of didn't really have, like, Mets or Yankees.

I liked them both. Oh, okay. But my favorite player was Mike Piazza, and I think that's because he just, the long hair, the beard, he looked like this cool pro wrestler dude, and he just had so much swag, I guess. And I really, like, took the him on like, this guy rules. Then he gets straight to the Mets and I'm like, that's fate. And I just went all in from that moment on, you know, as a diehard Mets fan.

So I'm not only the easiest, but it's worth it. I grew up playing baseball. Now my dad and I traveled to a different baseball stadium every single year. Oh, awesome. We haven't been to City Field yet. Really? I love, I mean, obviously I'm biased to tell, but I think City Field's really fun. We've been 22 stadiums, but City Field's not one of them.

Nice. I have a little, it's over there. I have a chart, and you can, like, lot of ticket scratch off where you've been. Have you seen that? Yeah. Yeah, so it has all the stadiums. And I had a bunch of stuff lined up this year. I'm kind of sad that I'm not going to get to do it.

But, yeah, I take my dad to opening day every year, City Field. So that's our thing. But, yeah, I'm trying to get to all 30 as well. So if we take the bias out of this, you know, I'll take Rogers Center out. You take City Field out. What's the best baseball stadium? I mean, Roger Center isn't even in the conversation. so you didn't have to do that.

Terrible. Yeah. I'll put it out there. A little old, yeah. My favorite. Man, I was pleasantly surprised with Kansas City I went last year. It was like a lot of fun. A lot.

Very family oriented and like so much to do. It was a beautiful day. Man, my absolute. I don't want to pick like Fenway or Wrigley because I just feel like that's so typical because they're the best. But they're so old school. You know, when I asked this question, I feel like that's the common answer. I don't know, man. It's tough.

Well, I think you can break it up into two. What's your favorite? What's your favorite? Yeah. I like big modern stadiums where it's like fun and interactive and, you know, because I'm just such a baseball fan. Have you been to Milwaukee? That's like, I think, number one on my list so I haven't been to.

It is beautiful. Yeah. Stupid little horn swoggle. It hates baseball and there's nothing about baseball. He's thrown out the first pitch there like seven times. Did that make play? That I don't know. But I've never been there.

And I'm like, yeah, you've been there that many times and done that sucks. That stadium blew me away of all of them. All right. Well, I think it was perfect time in there to bring the mug back up to plug the major wrestling figure podcast. There it is. Yeah. Razor wrestling figure podcast.

I put the link down below. Brian, it's been great hanging out with you. Thanks, man. Thanks for talking to me. I was thinking, I was like, I don't know if we've ever met, but we, I think I met you in the lobby in passing when you were interviewing Zigla. Yes. And that's all I could think of.

So when I met Zach Ryder was the lobby of the hotel, the Saturday night before Mania in Dallas. So it was WrestleMania 32. And it was like me and Ziegler and Zach Ryder. And I think I met you for like three seconds in that. I think it was mainly when I was with WWE and you were talking to Ziegler in the lobby. Because that meaning, I would have been at the Russell Con. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad that we got to hang out for him. Hey, man. It's fun. Yeah, I appreciate it. Let's do this in person. I like talking about wrestling if he couldn't tell. I could just a little bit.

Let's do this in person. I'll come to create a pro sometime. I want to sit. What are your interviews I saw? What are you sitting on like a park bench with Rhino interviewing? Let's do that. Yeah, we could do that. Old Terry.

Maybe I just want to sit on a park bench with Terry. Yeah, Rino owns a marina. Yes, I don't. Big Daddy's boat you on. I'm very, very well aware of it. Well, thanks again. Oh, man. Thank you.

See what's next for you. Appreciate it. Well, there you have it, my friends. And I didn't expect that we'd end this one talking about baseball stadiums, but I do love their tradition that my dad and I, Dirk Van Fleet, and I, have going to different MLB stadiums every year. I'm not sure if we're going to be able to continue that this year. We might have to hit pause on it since they might not be playing baseball in front of fans.

But I'd love to hear what your favorite baseball stadiums are, because we listed off a few of our favorites there. If you enjoyed this chat as much as I did, Share it with a friend or or better yet. Take a screenshot. Tag me at Chris Van Fleet. Tag Brian. He's at Myers underscore wrestling.

And you can find the major wrestling figure podcast with Matt Cardona, aka Zach Ryder on YouTube or wherever you're listening to this right now. And I have no doubt that Brian's going to leave his mark on wrestling as soon as he can start getting booked again. And I just think there's going to be such a huge resurgence in indie wrestling. and just wrestling as a whole when everything does open back up and everything does start getting back to normal here.

And like I mentioned in our chat, I could definitely see him working full-time as a WWE producer once he decides that his in-ring career is done in 10, 15, 20, however many years from now. He has such a great mind for wrestling and just such a passion for life. John Dryden said it best.

we first make our habits, then our habits make us. That's good. I got to tell you, it was so exciting this past weekend. Restaurants here in Cincinnati opened back up, and I went out and had my first beer in public for the first time in over two months. I got to tell you, that was the most delicious beer I've ever had. Yeah, it was so good. I hope that you're doing well.

I hope that you and the family are safe and healthy, and we've got some great interviews coming up in the next few weeks. So we will see you soon. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley?

How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this.

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