Insight with Chris Van Vliet - D-Von Dudley Says There's No Heat With Bully Ray, Dudley Boyz Reunion, Favorite TLC Match, WASSUP

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

D-Von Dudley (@testifydvon) is a professional wrestler and an inductee into the WWE Hall of Fame and the Impact Wrestling Hall of Fame. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about his legendary career as both a singles competitor and part of arguably the greatest tag team of all time The Dudley Boyz, how he got his start in ECW, what he learned from Paul Heyman, why AEW is the perfect place for his twin sons Terrence and Terrell (TNT) to wrestle, the origin of the WASSUP and how Vince McMahon loved it, why he says a Dudley Boyz reunion is possible, he squashes the rumors that there is heat with Bully Ray and much more! Check out D-Von Dudley's Wrestling School here: https://dvonacademy.com/ This episode is sponsored by Ketone-IQ. Use the promo code CVV to save 20% at https://hvmn.com/CVV If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about CVV and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blurley. Oh, man, here we go. Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. So good to have you with us on this one. And you know, if you listen to the show a lot, that Bully Ray was on with us a few months ago. That was my fourth interview with him.

But we had never done an interview with Devon Dudley. until now. And you're in for such a good one here. I mean, think of the career this man has had. Debuted in 1991, everything that he did in ECW with the Dudley Boys, WWE impacts with Team 3D, and then working behind the scenes in WWE as a producer. And, and on top of all this, he says the Dudley Boys aren't done. So, I mean, this is the thing about pro wrestling, right?

A pro wrestling retirement is never usually an actual retirement. So he says, like, I might not be able to do everything that I used to do. But that doesn't mean I can't do some of the greatest hits. So you'll hear him talk about him more during this conversation. But he's basically saying, like, don't count out a Dudley Boys reunion somewhere at some point. So let's see what happens there. If you're not already, please make sure you're following the show or you're or subscribe to the show, wherever you're listening to this,

it would mean so, so much to me. There's not a lot that I ask. And I'm never like, hey, could you give me some money on my Patreon for this? Or, hey, could you PayPal me some money for this? Yeah, sure, we do some ads on the show. And obviously, we've got some amazing sponsors that are always hooking you guys up. But the only thing I really ask is that you could follow the show or subscribe to the show wherever you're listening.

And it really helps the show continue. to grow. And if you enjoy this episode, please share it with a friend and take a screenshot. Tag us online and we'll share it out as well. DeVon is at Testify, DeVon. I'm at Chris Van Fleet, and let's do this. Please welcome the Hall of Famer. It's Devon Dudley. Devon, such a pleasure to have you on. I've talked with many people, you know, in relation to you. I've talked to your sons. I've talked to Bubba many times. Finally, I have the man himself. on here, so thanks for joining me. Well, I was wondering when it was going to take for you to get me on your show.

I saw Bubba on here a couple of, I think he did twice. If I'm not mistaken, I saw that. I was like, okay. And then when I saw my son, I was like, wait a minute. How does my sons get on here before I do? I feel like I was just kind of setting it up, right? I'm like, oh, man, if I can have Terrence and Terrell on here, then eventually I can have Devon on here.

How are you doing, by the way? I'm doing great, man. I'm doing great. I mean, everything is going well. Health is good, no issues there. You know, just ready to rock and roll again like I normally do. I love it. And how are Terrence and Terrell doing it? It was cool seeing them in AEW and, man, they really seem to be doing their thing. They're doing their thing. They're doing their thing. They're still doing dark in the AEW. They're having a good time. And, you know, they're just enjoying themselves, which I'm very, very happy with. I'd rather them do. with AED right now, then probably go to NXT or WWE. I mean, you know, in my opinion, there's just so much going on over there right now

that I just feel like they might get lost in the shuffle somewhere and things like that. Right now, I think AW is the best fit for them. I didn't always think that, you know, because I used to work for the company in WWE and before all the turmoil that's going on right now started. So I just figured probably WWE was the best fit, but I'm a very biblical person to the point where I feel God does everything for a reason.

And if they had a couple of tryouts and they were told no and, you know, they were told not right now, but, you know, we're definitely going to be looking at you in the future. Then there was a reason for that because long and behold, look what's going on there now. You know, there's so much disarray, I like to say, that's probably going on because no one knows what's going on. You know, is Vince back? Is he not back? Is Triple H in control?

Is he not in control? You know, I mean, is one thing for people to come out and say, you know, business as usual, you know, I'm still going to be whatever, but is it really the case? I don't know. I don't think anybody knows except for the people that are working with in the company. I mean, as we sit here right now in this post-Resslemania time in 2023, there's new ownership for WWE, and nobody seems to really know at all what's happening there. Well, if I'm correct, I believe, yes, there's new ownership. But I think Vince is still very much a part of the company still from what I'm reading. And from what I'm understanding, Triple H, Paul Levec is still.

in charge of creative. That's what I read. But then that's what people are saying. Again, unless you work for the company, you just don't know what's true and what's not. So you just got to wait and see how it plays out. I feel like your boys at some point in time are going to be a great fit in WWE.

They seem to love second generation, now even third generation talent. And I mean, this feels like a dream match that's in the making. But your twin boys against Rikishi's twin boys, the Uso's. I mean, come on. I mean, that's one of the things that we talked about, the twins and I, Terrence, and Terrell.

And it's also something that me, Jimmy, and Jay talked about a couple of years back when I was producing for the company. And I was pretty much doing all the time the New Day and the Uso's rivalry. Those are pretty much my matches. So, you know, I remember the Uso's and I used to talk about that because my sons are very big things. fans of the Uso's. And, you know, they, they, you know, love their work and, you know, what they're doing in the ring. So, and I would like to say that they might even idolize them a little bit. It's kind of like Bubba and I, you know, wanting to work and wrestle with the Legion of Doom,

Hawk and Animal. But we never, unfortunately, had the opportunity to do that because Hogg passed away in 2003. So we never got that chance. But then, long and behold, in T&A, I think. forget the year, but Animal teamed with Rick Steiner. You know, so we didn't get the Legion of Doom, but we got the best of both worlds and the Steiner's and the Road Warriors combined to tag together to face the Dudleys. So that was still an heroic thing for me and Bubba, just like I'm sure the Uso's with my twins,

TNT, Terence and Terrell, I'm sure that would be a huge feather in their cap. When we look at your time in WWBB as a producer, kind of like from the outside looking in, what are some segments or matches that have your fingerprints all over them and we might not know as fans? Well, again, the Uso's in a new day. The bludgeon's when they were together. But you're mostly doing tag team stuff.

I was mostly doing tag team, and then it got to the point where I was doing a lot of main event matches, the show main event that was seen on the network at the time. I had a lot of those matches. I worked a couple of times with some of the females, not all the time. Because at the time,

Finley dealt with a lot of the females within the organization. But I dealt with the females every so often and had a good time. I'm not going to lie, I was little nervous about it because I didn't know if the way I did business, where I do business,

would the women understand And, you know, and this and that. And the ones that I worked with, Natty, was perfect. Dana Brooks, Lacey Evans, who, you know, Lacey and I have a great friendship, relationship. She's called me many times for advice. And we've always just done shooting the stuff. She was there for me when I had my stroke. Her and her husband and her daughter came over to the home and spent some time with me.

And, you know, our families pretty much, you know, were hanging out and talking. So I built a relationship, you know, as a producer there as well with some of the talent. We take this way back, Devon. I want you to fill in the blank here. If it wasn't for blank, there would be no Dudley boys. Well, I guess you could say if it wasn't for, you mean in WWE? I think we've got to go way back here. Is it Polly?

Is it Taz? Perhaps it's Bobba, maybe someone else. I will say if it wasn't for, say, Raven and Taz and Pauley, but Pauley being the number one guy, you know, there was no one out there at the time that was willing to give us a chance, Bubba or myself. And I guess you have to understand from their point of view is that who were we? We were nobodies, you know?

We were young punk kids, you know, on the indie circuit, trying to make it. So, you know, I don't blame anybody back then for not looking at us, but Paul had the opportunity to meet us and see us and actually work with us. And if it wasn't for Paul, we wouldn't be here today. But if it wasn't for Raven and Taz, there would be no Dudleys just simply because they were the ones that came up with the gimmick of the Dudleys coming from the movie Hot Shot with Paul Newman. the Hanson brothers. And so if it wasn't for those two putting their creative juices together,

there's no telling me and Bubba might have been Joe Schmoe for all we know. Who knows? What's with all the movie references, especially in ECW, because I also know that your character specifically was inspired by Samuel L. Jackson's character in Pulp Fiction. Yes, it was two people. It was more Mr. T for Rocky III.

Okay. And Paul Fiction, the Mr. T part was the punching, the aggressiveness, beating down people when I would talk to, when I would fight them, you know, getting them in a compromised position, beating them down in the corner and talking crap. That was all Mr. T. That's exactly what Mr. T did in Rocky 3. What happened was I came into the ECW production studio to meet with Paul E for the first time. And he was feeling me out. And now that I know that Dr. Frankenstein, how he is, he was studying me up as a person as well. And he pretty much asked me, he goes, so tell me, my real name is Devon. So he says, tell me, Devon, you know, tell me about yourself.

You know, and I'm just like scared, you know, little kid in the corner trying to think of something intelligent to say that to Paul, you know, because I used to watch Paul on TV as a manager in WCW. So I'm a little starstruck too. I know exactly who he is and so forth or so on. So I was like, well, you know, I work in the post office. You know, I got a family and this and that. He goes, what's your favorite movie? And I looked at him and I said, Rocky 3. And he said Rocky 3.

And he assumed like everybody when they watched Rocky that you like the character Rocky Balboa, Sylvester Stallone's character. And I said, no, I said, I like Mr. T. He was like, really? I was like, yeah. It's not because I'm black. Glever Lang. Glever Lang.

I said, I like Mr. T. And he was like, I was like, I've been doing Mr. T ever since I was little. I idolized the man. I wanted to be like Mr. T. You couldn't tell me nothing. I thought I was Mr. T. He was like, really?

He was like, yeah. He was like, do Mr. T for me. I said, what do you mean? He goes, pick the scene out of the movie. So I said, okay. And I picked the scene when him and Rocky, when Rocky was about to talk. about his retirement and Mr. T.

came out, hey, woman, hey, you know, all of that. So I did it for him and he was shocked. He just went, wow, he was like, that's absolutely perfect. And I was like, well, I've been doing it for years, you know, ever since I was a kid up until even as an adult, I was like, I kind of studied it and idolized it. And he says, okay, he was like, let me ask you a quote. He asked him about my background in terms of how I grew up.

And I told him about my parents. Yeah. I told him my parents were reverends. and I grew up in a very Christian household. And he said to me, he goes, okay, you ever see the movie old fiction? At the time, I said, no, because I didn't. And I had heard about it, but I had no interest in seeing it.

And he says, well, I want you to go take a look at a character called Jules. He's one of the main characters in the movie. I could see you being him. And he described what he was in the movie, Bible thumping crazy, you know, blow your head off and this and that. Before he would do that, he would, you know, quote scriptures. And I was like, okay, he was like, yeah, go to your local blockbuster. That's how old I am.

He said, he said, it's on video now outside of the movie theater. So I went and got the VHS tape and went in there and watched it. And I called him up, I go, yeah, I love it. I love the character. I love it. Because I love the path of the righteous man. you know, I love that. And I was strike down upon thee

with great vengeance and furious anger. The way he delivered that, even as young as I was watching that, just sent chills through me. And it was kind of like one of those things where I thought I was able to play that character tremendously. And once we said that, we were like, all right, I was like, well, what's my name?

I was like, what do you mean? He was like, well, what are you going to call me? He was like, well, what do you go by on the indie circuit? And I just went, A-Train. He goes, A-Train. He goes, when did you come with that? I said, Johnny Rods did. He goes, oh, okay.

He was like, why don't we just use your name? I was like, Devon? He goes, no. How about D-Von? We'll emphasize the D and the E and the D. And lowercase O-N. We'll put a dash where the E is. Yeah.

And I was like, D-Von. D-Von. All right. What do you want to call me? Devon Hughes? He was like, no, I'm going to put you with a tag team called the Dudley boys. And it's the Dudleys at the time. And he goes, how about Devon Dudley? And I was like, Devon Dudley. It doesn't have a ring to it. I was like, ah, I was like, all right, whatever. You know, I need a job. I want a job. I want to work. You know, as a wrestler. I was like, all right.

And of course, the rest is history. And it just worked out. Okay, quick pause from this conversation with the legendary Devon Dudley. to let you know this episode is brought to you by ketone IQ. What is ketone IQ? This is brain fuel. This is a clean energy boost without the caffeine, without the sugar. So no caffeine, no sugar. And just one shot of this has me feeling clear, focused, and ready to take on anything.

And I love that it's a shot because I don't know about you. But when I'm feeling like a little lethargic or like I need that like mid-afternoon boost, I'm not thirsty, so I'm not looking to like, pow, you know, take down an energy drink here. I love that it's just one shot and has me, boom, ready to go. Ketone IQ is a great, smooth energy to kickstart your morning for that slump right after lunch. You know what I'm talking about. Or if you've been listening to Insight long enough, you know that I love a good pre-workout. So I'll take like one or two of these before a big leg day or a big chest day.

And then I am ready to just kick that workout in the behind. Actually, if you've ever noticed that I'm a little, like, extra-amped or extra focus, like totally in the zone during a conversation, like during one of these interviews, it's because I took ketone IQ before we hit record. So when you're low on fuel, ketone IQ is your secret weapon. You can find ketone IQ at HVMN.com. use the promo code CVV at checkout to save 20% again. That's HVMN.com, and that promo code to save 20% is CVV.

What's so interesting about the Dudley family is there were so many characters, a lot of them that wrestling fans now have forgotten about, but you and Bubba have stood the test of time. Why do you think that is? Well, because we were on the same page. you know, a lot of tag teams, there's always one that deviates from what they're supposed to do as a team. Bubba and I never did. We always, we wanted to be one of the best tag teams that was ever put together.

And in knowing how tag team wrestling is in terms of how entertaining it could be, we were both on the same page with that. Now, at first, I never really wanted to, you know, wrestled in the tag. Bubba always did. I know Bubba, I sort of interview and Bubba always said he wanted to be in a tag team. And I never did. I wanted to be the black version of Hulk Hogan, you know, minus the hair. But, you know, we were able to just gel together. You know, we were just able to be on the same page with everything.

And we were both perfectionists when it came to in-ring work. You know, if something didn't work or if we messed up on something, we would go over it a thousand times, you know, until we got it right. And we were both on that same page. Neither one of us took drugs. We were casual drinkers. In other words, if we went out and hung out with the boys, we had a beer, a couple of beers or, you know, some Jack Daniels.

But other than that, that was about it. But we weren't drinkers. So there was nothing clouding our minds to prevent us from achieving our goal. And that was to become a very successful tag team. We just had no idea it was going to be at this level. You know, the most decorated tag team in the history of the world voted the greatest tag team of all time. Again, and I say this with respect to a lot of the other tag teams, you know, each generation

has their tag teams, has their singles wrestlers. And I'll even go back, I'll even say as basketball, this is one of the things I like to bring up. Say, for instance, Dr. Jay during his time, you know, everybody thought Dr. Jay was the greatest of all time. Nobody would ever beat Dr. Jay in terms of that title. And then all of a sudden, here comes that guy from North Carolina, you know, Michael Jordan, that just changed the scope of everything,

of basketball. And in my opinion is the greatest of all time. He's my generation. And then of course, now Kobe comes along and then LeBron comes along. And now we always have that feud of who's the best. LeBron or Michael. Well, I'm a Michael fan. You can even throw

Kareem in there too. Well, yes. But again, Kareem is not really looked upon if you really think about it unless they are scholars of basketball. They don't really look at Kee. I mean, Kareem was, I agree with you, on the same page as Michael LeBron and Kobe.

But you got to, I guess agree with me that he doesn't get the recognition that he should. He was a great big man. He was the leading score for so many years. But at the same token, he never got the recognition he deserved. It was always Michael Jordan, Dr. J. Kobe and LeBron. And, you know, each generation feels that the guy that was during their time was better than the guy that's coming up now. And that's just the way it is.

Just like tag team wrestling. Some people will say the dully's to this day are the greatest tag team in his or his business. There are some that will say FTR is the greatest. There are some that say the young bucks are greatest. But it all depends on the New Day, the Usos. It just all depends on the generation where you're in and who you're asking.

If you ask today's wrestling, then of course, I can't deny that they're going to say the new day. They're not going to say FTR. they're not going to say the, you know, not the Hardee's, the Hardee's a part of mine, but, you know, the young bucks, you know, they're going to say that because a lot of them weren't even born when Bubba and I were doing what we were doing. So a lot of them are working on, a lot of them are looking at YouTube videos or for those

that still have the network are still, you know, watching the network. So, you know, they can't really feel what was really going on during that time, you know, and then you still got something that will say the Hardee's are better, you know, than the Dudleys, even during that time. You know, Edg and Christian, it all depends. It all depends on who you like. If you get enough people that are Hardy fans, then the majority of overwhelming is going to, you're going to think that everybody loves the Hardee's.

The same thing with Edging Christian. And you get a large majority of people that, you know, put it out there that, you know, that the Edging Christian are the best and that's going to happen. It's like the Dudleys, you know. It's an argument that has been made long before Bubba and I had ever gotten in his business with other tag teams. Do we think that we're better than the road warriors? Absolutely not.

Do we think we're better than the Midnight Express, the Rock and Roll Express? No, we're just happy that we can be named in that same category with those great teams. As far as I'm concerned, the road warriors are the greatest tag team in the history of this business. Now, I will say this. Did we move? I was listening to Jim Cornett on his podcast and how he compared us to, the road warriors. Did we move better

than the road warriors? Yes. Did we do a lot more in the ring than the Road Warriors? Yes, because they were power men. They just came and destroyed you. We actually worked with the teams. And there's nothing wrong with that. The Road Warriors had different styles. We had different styles. Now, you look at that

and you say, okay, well, then where do the Road Warriors have the advantage? Well, the big advantage is box office drawer. And I say that because the main events that they were in, the money that they drew during that time in the 80s and 90s was huge. And it was huge for a tag team like that to be able to draw those type of numbers. So I think from a box office standpoint, absolutely they were better than the Dudleys. Do I think if the Dudleys were during that time, could we have done the same numbers?

Possibility. But we weren't. So that's like saying that Mike Tyson could Muhammad Ali beat Mike? Mike Tyson, if Muhammad was during Mike Tyson days, we'll never know that. Right. You know, we'll never know that. We could just assume, you know, because of Mike Tyson power. And then, of course, Muhammad Ali's quickness and the way he wasn't in ring, we'll never know.

But we'll never know about the Dudleys and we'll never know about the LOD, the Road Warriors. But I will say this, we came damn close. We're the most decorated. We got the most titles. And I used to always tell people, Bubba and I could. not go to Japan and conquer and do what we did in Japan without even remotely being in the same category as the road warriors. Because we all know from history, the road warriors tore it up in Japan. They were like being tagged in during their era. And there's no denying that the Dudleys

went over there and did the same thing that the road war is there. The only thing that we didn't do that the Road Warriors did, was when all Japan tag team titles. We won the tournament, but we never won the titles. I think the one match for me that really, like, got my attention.

I knew how good you guys were in ECW, but I saw that tables match at the Royal Rumble in 2000 against the Hardee's. I went, you guys just operating on a completely different level here. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I thought, again, I saw the last interview that you and Bubba did.

I think it might have been in L.A. Outside, nice, cool area. Meanwhile, I'm stuck in my house. You know, I got- Vegas at the East Texas-Camp casino where they were doing impact. Yeah, you know, I'm stuck in my house. I got laundry everywhere. I got babies crying.

I'm wiping, I'm wiping asses, the diapers, and cleaning noses. Meanwhile, I'm doing this interview. No. I got to get you guys together for an interview. Come on. Yeah, I love to. You love to. But, you know, I like to talk, and so does he.

so I don't know how that gels. I would just sit there, really. You guys work great together. Yeah, we do. And we always did. And that was the one thing I love about Bubba, you know, is that we were. You know, I understood, but I understand Bubba. I've been with Bubba for 20 years.

Not to get off of what we were talking about before, but I have been with Bubba for 20 years. So I understand Bubba. Bubba understands me. We get on each other. We're like brothers. You know, it's like one of those things was, you know, because I hear the reports about the Dudley boys. you know, not liking each other or being angry on this, peuting going on between the douglies.

And the answer is no, you know, he's my brother, you know, spiritually I'm going to say. And I say spiritually, I mean, he's not my biological brother, but he's definitely my brother. We've been together for 20 years. We've done what we've done. And, you know, my thing is, it's like, will we argue with one another? Will we have disagreements with one another? Absolutely we will.

But I tell you what, don't let anybody else come in between us. because that's when you're going to have a problem. That's what you're going to see Bubba and I really unite, even if we were at each other's throats and we will destroy anybody that comes our way to try to disrupt that. Yeah, there was the story that came out and Baba squashed it and you're basically squashing it here too.

There was some heat between you guys and you couldn't work together anymore. No, I, and it might have been on me because I said, somebody asked me, would we see the Dudley boys? I didn't interview, they said, would we see the Dudley boys back together? And I said, no.

Because at that time, I had a stroke. Yeah. My back was giving out on me. And I spoke the truth. I said, no. I said, because I can't do it anymore. I said, but here's the deal. Bubba is still doing his thing, and I'm doing my thing as a producer.

So he's doing his thing, and I'm doing mine. So we're separating and we're going our separate ways and doing our own thing, and we're happy doing that. But just because I said that doesn't necessarily mean that there's animosity between us. You know? Are there things that I didn't agree with? With him? Yes. Are there things that he didn't agree with with me?

Absolutely. But guess what? We squashed it. Whatever the little disagreement was and we're together. But we were never apart. That's the thing. We were never apart. We were agreeing to disagree on certain things.

You know? And like every other tag team or any other brother, you know, you do your own thing for a little bit. I do my own thing for a little bit. it and guess what we reunite again no different we listen bubble likes to use the analogy and i heard him say it on your show a couple of times kiss you know you know when kiss took off the paint and all of that they weren't as big as they were once they took all that all that all and they started getting rid of members in the band uh and this and that because of whatever demons that they might have had

so they had to replace certain members but then when all of a sudden when they put the paint back on they were able to bring everybody back together even those that had demons in the past that we would have bring them back together and form the group kiss, not taking anything away from anybody that filled in the void when those members were gone. But I feel like, like Bubba says, we're like kiss. We're going to put on the paint. I'm sorry about that. We're going to put on the face paint one more time and we're going to do it.

And when I say we put on the face paint one more time, autograph, signings, things like that. Is there a possibility for the Dudley boys to ever get back into the ring again? I'll put it in this way. I can say yes and I can say no. And I'll say this in terms of like I told Bubba. I said, you know, the only thing is I don't know about going up on the top of rope and doing the WhatsApp no more. I say because, you know, I don't know how much my back.

I'm not willing to put my back at risk like that. There are certain moves that I would have to fix. What about a 3D? Could you do a 3D? A 3D would be great. I can do a 3D. That wouldn't be no problem. That's all we need, right?

I think we've just written the Dudley Boys return right there. Like Bobby, like always say, you know, we can hit the greatest hits, you know. Who cares about, like Kiss, who cares about the new stuff that they did? They want to hear Detroit Rock City. They want to hear Beth. They want to hear all of those songs that made Kiss so big. It's the same thing with the Dudley's. They want to get the what's up.

But again, we have to modify the what's up. I may have to land on my feet purse and then my back. Maybe you hold the legs. You know what? That would not be a bad idea. but I don't think Bubba. Listen, people like to say that I'm afraid of heights, which is true. But I ain't never seen Bubba going to top rope.

So I think he might be afraid of the Heights as well. I don't know. What was it about the What's Up that you didn't think was going to get over originally? Well, here's what happened. We went in the car. And I don't think Bubba remembers this because every time I hear him tell the story, he doesn't say this. But we were in the car. We were leaving Orlando, as a matter of fact, the Amway Arena.

And, you know, this is when Road Dog and all of them had the catchphrases. The Rock had the catchphrase, Steve Austin, and even Triple H. And we were driving in the car heading to our hotel. And he said to me, he goes, DeVon, we need a catchphrase. We need something that's going to stick out here. And I was like, okay. And then all of a sudden, he's sitting there and he goes, you ever see that Butterweiser commercial? And I said, yeah, what about it?

He goes, what if we did that? I said, what do you mean? And he goes, what if you were, when you're on the top rope and I'm on the bottom, I'm on the bottom, I hold the guy's legs. And he goes, what's up? And then I'll turn it to you and you go, what's up? I go, that's the dumbest idea I've ever heard. And he goes, what do you mean? I go, it's stupid.

I'm going to sit there and lick out my tongue. What I? I'm like, I don't want to look ridiculous. It's bad enough where we're in tie-dye with freaking glasses with no lenses. And now you're asking me to go on the top rope and do something where we're going to do the what's out from a beer commercial? I was like, that is absolutely insane. And he was like, just try it. So I was like, whatever, man.

Let's try it. I was like, no, I was like, there's no way because I had testify. I had the three commandments. So it was basically that was mine. But we needed something as a team, but something that was really going to pop for both of us, not just one guy. And he thought the WhatsApp would work. And I remember we did it a couple of times and I felt stupid.

Man, I was when I talked about it, I just felt stupid. And there was a couple of times when we had matches where we did the what's up. And I didn't do it. So I was just jump off the top and that was it. And we were getting the car. He goes, why didn't do the what's up? I was like, oh, I forgot. He goes, you didn't forget.

No, I forgot. He goes, you're lying. I go, no, I'm not. I go, you can't prove I'm lying. He goes, you're lying. I know you. You just don't want to do it. So then finally I went, you know what?

You're right. I don't. It's the stupidest thing in the world. So let's fast forward a couple of months later. We're at Smackdown I forget where And we have a match With the Undertaker and the Rock

And this is one of the few moments Where Vince actually When Vince used to come out to the ring And to see how things were going Because normally he would just stay in his office Now he would just stay in his office He wouldn't come out But back then he used to come to the ring

And you know See how the thing was gone So he came out one day And he snuck up behind me He gave me a little shoulder tackle And I was like, what the hell? I was like, motherfucker. Oh, hey, Vince.

And he goes, hey, he goes, DeVine. He goes, how's everything going? I go, everything going great. I was like, you know, we're putting a match together. We're almost done. Bubba and Take her in there doing a couple of things. We're just waiting for Rock to come. Rock was somewhere.

I was like, we just waiting for him to come a piece of everything together. He goes, okay, cool. Tell me something, Devon. What is this thing where you go up on the top rope and somebody told me that you guys call it the what's up? I was like, what's up? I was like, oh, bad thing. I said, Vince, it's the dumbest thing in the world.

I hate it. I was like, I don't like it. I'm not doing it. I was like, so don't worry. You ain't got to worry about me. I'm not doing it. He goes, oh, no, you are going to do the what's up. He goes, I actually like it.

And I went, that's what I mean. I said, I'm going to do what's up. I'm going to do it exactly how you said it. I'm going to go up there. And from that point on, it was, you know, a vision was made. You know, that was the one thing that I will say that the one thing I absolutely thought without a doubt that was going to be Bubba's downfall in terms of him being wrong about something getting over, I thought this was my chance to go, yeah, I told you that

crap wasn't going to get over. And I wind up beating my words. I've interviewed Bubba now. I think it's four times. And he keeps saying these same two words. Anytime I say, you know, what advice do you have for somebody coming up that wants to be in the position that you guys were in? He says two words, get over. Over. Absolutely. This story right here is a perfect, it sums it up perfectly. Yeah.

I mean, because again, you know, you don't, things that people put emphasis on and think about, you know, the catchphrases or whatever, you're trying to get over, it doesn't get over. It's the dumbest thing. It's the things that you least expect is what gets over. And that's the great part about this business. I love it. I mean, you know, again, who would ever thought that sitting up there two grown ass men and a guy on a top rope jumping up going, right before he jumps in some man's crotch. I mean, think about that.

Yeah. What do you think, if anything, is missing from tag team wrestling right now? Well, outside of the bloodline, you know, storytelling, taking your time, letting the people digest what you're giving them. And when you're putting a match together, make sure the story is. something that the people can invest in, something that the people can understand and relate to. We need to have a definitive heel and the definitive baby face. So the people go boo and share. Let them understand the story that you're telling as opposed to just putting a bunch of crap together with a bunch of high spots and nothing. Because listen, our fans are not looking for

rocket scientists here. They want to be entertained. They want to be able to go home happy. and giving them a good storyline that they can relate to and invest in, that's going to send them home happy. That's going to make them cheer in the arenas. That's exactly what Bubba and I had that the whole time. That's why the TLC match was so good because we did just use a bunch of tables, ladders, and chairs. We actually put meaning and story behind it.

Not only that, but we did it safely. And we did it to where we added three other people to it, which was Rhino, Spike and Leader, you know, at WrestleMania 17 and made it work. I mean, so many people try to duplicate that match and yet came up short. I mean, kudos for them trying, but at the same token, you know, you really have to put effort into it. This is something that all six of us got together, put our creative juices, and put it together. You just can't just say, okay, I'm going to do a TLC match. I'm going to hit you with a ladder.

I'm going to hit you with a chair. I'm going to put you through a table. You have to put meaning and time and thought into it. That's exactly what we did. I'm so glad you brought up TLC, but it's interesting that you talk about the one at WrestleMania. That was TLC2, right? The one at SummerSlan was the first one.

Yeah, but I always say that the one at WrestleMania, what was it, 16 or 15? 17. No, no, the one in Anaheim, California. I think that was WrestleMania 15 or 16, but I say that was the first TLC, but it was called a ladder match. It wasn't called the TLC because we still use tables, ladders, and chairs. you know so as far as I'm concerned that was the first one then of course SummerSlam was the second and the Wessomania 17

was the third and then of course we had one that was on smackdown where we had I believe it was Chris Benoit I don't work for the company anymore so I can say that name Chris Benoit everyone in the comments is going to love that yeah yeah so you know um you know what was that what was I say I'm most straight that one was on Smackdown I'm sorry, that one was on SmackDown, and that one was good, but it didn't get the recognition like the other three got. You know, I'm not sure why, but it is what it is.

Oh, and then Bubba did one where I was Reverend Devon on Smackdown, and him and Spike got together and did it. So, you know, those two didn't get the same appeal that the other three got. And I'm not sure why, but, you know, I guess that just shows the magic that we had. with the six of us doing what we did. You hanging off the title with Jeff Hardy and that one at SummerSlam. The bump you took there, and you know, you already mentioned it, you're scared of heights. That bump you took was crazy. Listen, I saw everybody else going to take crazy bumps.

And I definitely didn't want to take the one that Bubba took, you know, going through all the ladders on the outside. I was like, there's no way I will panic in mid-air and miss the tables. But the one I was for sure that I could handle, but it was scary as hell, was hanging 15 to 20 feet up in the air with Jeff. And if you know Jeff how crazy he is, and I always say this in interviews, you know, he's kicking me and kicking me and the ladder hasn't been moved yet. And I'm screaming.

I'm already nervous as hell. And I'm screaming, Jeff, if you ever love me, you will stop kicking me. The ladder is not moved. And he don't hear a word I'm saying. You know, he doesn't tune me out. He doesn't tune the fans. He doesn't tune everything out. He laughs about it.

Now, every time we talk about it, I go, I will never hang with you again. You do know that. I love you to death. I will have matches with you, but Jeff, I will never think with you again. And he laughs at me all the time. Every once in a while he comes up to me, he goes, yeah, so deep on, I was talking to the, I was talking to Vince, this one back in WWW. He goes, I was talking to Vince.

He was like, I figured we could do like maybe like a TLC version of a match. I know you always wanted to do that. Well, we can do that. But you and I will hang together. I go, no. I go, that's when I fully retire. I go, never again with you, my friend. Do you remember watching Edge Spear, Jeff Hardy, off the ladder?

Like, did you have a vantage point to watch that live? Yes. Yes, I did. And I was jealous. Because I like to say that even though the SummerSlam TLC match where I was hanging with Jeff, you know, Bubba, I think Bobba, I think Bubba, took a great bump off of there. Matt took his bump. Christian took his bump. Edge took his bump. I mean, and Edge took, you know, quite a few bumps in that match as well. Everybody took bumps, but

I always felt in my heart the special bump was me hanging because I was so fearful of heights and how devastating it looked. So when Edge did that, I went, oh, damn, that's going to get more play than me now. And Edge teases me all the time about that. With all the momentum, you guys had during that time. Whose decision was it then about a year later or a year and a half later for you and Bubba to split up with a draft? It was Vince's. Vince had this idea of us going on separate waves and doing we doing it. Also, there was talks about Vince having a hard on, no point in tendon. Maybe I shouldn't use that phrase what I'm about to say. But he had it, he had an end for the Catholic Church. Because remember, at that time, we had people picketing,

protesting us and it's not being hypocritical, especially people from the church. But meanwhile, this was at the time when the church was having controversy within its own home with the priests, with the little boys and things like that. So there was always an issue when people are being hypocritical, especially back during that time, you know, we're doing what we're doing, but yet they're doing what they're doing and getting away with it for so many years. But meanwhile, you want to chastise what we do,

in the ring. And then plus, you know, Benny Hinn, you know, some of the TV evangelist. Who's the other one? Jim Baker. And the other one. Billy Graham, maybe? No, Billy Graham, there was no controversy with him. But no, who was the other one? God, I can see him now because I guess he had an affair with his secretary. He's on the, he's actually doing TV evangelist now. But anyway. Anyway, they basically, he was basically making a dig at them. That's what he was doing. And he used me to do it.

And I just remember going home and asking my parents. I was like, listen, they want me to do this. You know, I would like to do it, but I would like to get your blessing. My mother was a little against it. But my father was like, when you're done doing that in the ring, you come to where it really belongs in the pool pit. That's what you really do. It spread the words. I was like, you got it, sir.

and it took off from there. A lot of people, and Bubba makes fun of me, you know, and he says, oh, you know, we don't talk about that Reverend Devon,

you know, because he didn't get over. I'm like, bullshit it didn't. I'm like, look, let me see, who are the people that I beat?

Randy Orden, John Sina, Val Venus, Mark Henry, Triple H. And the biggest one, Triple H. Yeah.

You know? And I always said this. If Triple H didn't believe, that the Reverend Devon gimmick was getting over the way it did, then he would have never, in a million years, especially at that time, would have laid down

for him. He would have never let that happen. And Hunter had a lot of power and a lot of say-so back then. I'm not going to say even more than he does now, but he had a lot of say-so back then. He had just married Stephanie, you know, him and Vince

are freaking tight. They're not budding heads or anything like that. They're they're full blown. Here they go. If he had a disagreement at all, he would have said, no. I don't think so. I'll beat Devon,

but I'm not letting Devon go over on me. And that ended up being a vehicle to really get Batista to take off. So I'm curious, like the first time that you met, Dave. Well, you know, I mean, this big guy, you know, I mean, he was massive. The 10 times the size he is now.

And I just remember looking at him going, good God. I just went, what the hell they're going to do? I said, I hope they don't have them turn on me. Because I said, if they do, they usually go to beat the shit, it's going to hurt. And I just remember,

Dave didn't really know anything. You know, like, for instance, we did a spot in the match with myself in Triple H where I would throw Triple H on the outside, take the referee. Hunter would be getting up, leaning up against the post. Batista sees him, does the sign of the cross,

goes to close line him, but Hunter gets out the way, and Batista hits the post and goes down. And I remember Batista came to me and said, Rev, I've got to ask you a question. So what's up? He goes, how do I do this? I go, how do you do what? He goes, with Hunter.

I go, Batista, what do he talk about? He goes, how do I closeline him when he moves out the way and then hit the post? I go, you're missing with me, right? He goes, no, I'm not. That's why you're not missing with me. He goes, no, I said, wait a minute, you never done anything like this? He goes, no.

He goes, in OVW, all they had me do was come in and do run-ins because I was so massive and big. They never really worked with me the way they did with Brock and Randy and Sina. I was just the guy that came in and nailed people. And that was it. I was like, oh, my God. I go, you got to be kidding me. I go, okay, so I'm trying to get a character over. Reverend Devon,

okay, after being in a tag team match but almost 12 years at that time, now you're putting me in singles and you're putting me with a guy who's green as shit. And now I've got to help him get along and help him get over as well as myself. How the hell am I going to do this? And I'm already scared of death

about going on my own. And it worked, though. It worked for the little bit time that we did and then somebody pulled the plug on it. Look at Dave now. You guys still keep a touch at all? Every once in a while, I'll see him. I'll tell him, hey, I called you.

And he'll go, you never called me. I go, I did call you, Dave. He goes, look, you, I don't have any missed calls. I go, because your phone is probably not working. Look, Devon, I don't think anybody was better at doing the, call it the oversell or the supercell. Nobody did that better than you. You know, I took a page out of Roddy, Roddy Piper's book. I was a huge Piper fan, even though he was the man that you loved to hate back in the day.

I hated him too, but I loved the way he sold whenever he got hit. And during that time in the 80s, it wasn't considered hokey. It was considered real selling. And I loved it. And I just remember when I started selling an ECW, I said, I want to start doing what Piper did, but I want to make it my version. I want to give him credit for what I learned from watching him, but I want to put my own twist on it.

And that's exactly what I did. What was the move that you loved selling for people? The bullshy. You know, like New Jack would, you know, snap man me. You know, I would be down. He'd spread my legs. Take a vacuum, you know, what have you. Act like he would vacuum and then come over.

Wham! And then that's it. I would jump up and down and sell it. It was great. One time he did catch me, though. It was not a pretty, I thought he ruptured my testicle. Oh, God, it was so bad. It was so bad.

With everything that you've done in your career, both as a tag team and a singles competitor, was there ever a point when you were like, I can't do this or I don't want to do this? I want to look into doing something else right now. No, professional wrestling has always been something that I wanted to do. I passed up a four-year scholarship to Florida A&M to wrestle. because I felt that...

Was it a scholarship to play football? Yes, it was a scholarship to play football. And in my opinion, to this day, I don't know how I got it because I transferred from one school to a school in Long Island to New Rochelle High School. And my accomplishments in Long Island

when I was there was huge. And then my mother got remarried and then we moved to New Rochelle, and I met my football career, in my opinion, never took off the way it should have leaving Long Island. And, but there were people that were still interested in looking at me

and this and that, and my parents were very happy, so you can imagine two preachers in the house when I told them I was passing up a scholarship to Florida and him to go do professional wrestling. Yeah, it wasn't good, man. It wasn't good.

And then, like, to bring this full circle, then how do you have the conversation with your boys when they say, because they played a lot of football? How do you have the conversation with them to say, you know, they want to chase after their dream to be a pro wrestler like their dad? Well, there was a little hiccup with that. I basically did not want them to wrestle. I was totally against it. You know, I went through my share of, I would say racism within the business for certain people. and things like that. Also, you know, promoters treating you bad and things like that.

And so I didn't want them to go through that. I wanted them to avoid that like the plague. And I was totally against it. And then I had a conversation with the Rock one day. And he says, how's your boys? I was like, oh, they're doing good, you know? And it's never by. He goes, are they thinking about getting into the business?

I go, absolutely not. I go, I don't want them in the business. And he goes, why not? I said, because I just don't want them in it. I don't want them to go through what I went through. And then he started explaining to me how him and Mr. Johnson, his dad, were at odds about him coming into the business as well. And he said, listen, if I would have listened, you know,

to my dad about not getting into business, I probably wouldn't be where I am today. You never know. Let them do them. If they fail, guess what? At least they tried and they know. So now they can move on and get back to what they need to be. just make sure to get their education.

I said, yeah, you're right. Yeah, look at them now. And, you know, look at you now. So what is, like, what fills your days and your weeks now that you're, I guess, I guess you're retired? Although, is anybody in wrestling ever retired? No. And I do know Bubba went public. My wife was telling me, Bubba, I guess, went and he said that, you know, I guess the Dudley boys are going to reunite again or something like that.

He said, I don't know the actual, I'm like, I can't quote him, but it was something as if the tease the fans and say that the deadly boys might be back together. And again, I spoke to Bubba about that. And again, I just told him, like I started to say earlier, about Kiss being the greatest hits. All we got to do is hit the greatest hits, he said, you know, minus the what's up. We have to remodify that. But the 3D, the belly to back neck breaker, even somewhat. LOD coming out of the top road with me closed on them.

Because again, a lot of times I did go like stomach, I landed on my stomach flat first, but then those other times I went legs first, then rolled. I like to call it the hacksaw, Jim Doug and Nikolai Volkoor bump. You know, you go to your feet, your knees, your hip, and then go to your back. You know, I can do stuff like that.

I'm not opposed to it. So right now I am at my, wrestling school, DDA, Devon W. Academy, I'm actually getting in the ring rolling around now that I got clearance from the doctor. He doesn't want me to take like big, big bumps, but take a regular bump is good. I've been hitting the ropes, just basically trying to get my footwork together. And again, not for saying that I want to come back in the ring, but just for me personally, you know, can I do I still have it? Can I still do it? Can I still do it? And hitting the ropes is, you know, at first it was rough because when I had the stroke, I had lost.

I mean, I only had 35% of my left side. So the nerves were, had to refire again and go back to normal and it took some time. And then, of course, getting back surgery, and then my lower lumbar being cut, open and fuse with discs and all of that. So now I'm like, it was like going through the stroke, boom. and then eight months later, the back surgery. So it was like one after the other. It just didn't stop. And so now it's like, okay, well, it's like once you start to heal,

I started to heal from the stroke, and then all of a sudden now the back surgery started, I'm like, oh my God, it's like starting all over again. So now I'm starting to feel good in the legs where I can walk for at least a good five minutes without having to sit down, things like that, because I was waiting for the nerves to start firing back up in the lower lumbar, the legs and the back and stuff, before I even try to do anything in the ring.

And now that there seem to be coming back, I'm actually okay. Have you looked into stem cells? I know a lot of wrestlers have said that that's really helped them. Yes, I did look into that, and I'm looking to find somebody. So if anybody's out there that, you know... I might have a connection for you. If you have a connection, send them to me. I definitely want to do it.

I just, you know, again, I'm not trying to be with no... disrespect intended. I'm not trying to be like Hogan, you know, in terms of, and I idolize the man, but you know, I know he's in bad shape because he went probably way longer than he was supposed to, you know, even after his

first, you know, a couple of back surgeries. And now I heard he's really in pain now. I don't want to be like that. I have two little girls that I have to raise and be able to walk down the aisle with them with no problems, no issues and I want to do that. So if I was to come back, I would come

back not going crazy or ECW style, but I would do what I can and to make sure that the matches were entertained to the fullest. Whether I do with Bubba or what I do with my boys. But look, it was just a few months ago that Bubba told me, I don't think the Dudley boys could ever reunite with Devon's health. You're giving us a glimmer of hope here. Well, yeah, because of the fact that, again, I said, I feel great, you know. So I'm at the rest of the school. I'm rolling around again. I'm not doing this to say, hey, I'm making a comeback.

I'm doing it for me. I'm doing it to get my body strong again. And that's what I'm doing. So is there a glimpse of hope? Yes, it could be. I mean, I'm not saying no, but it can be. Yes, there can be. But I got to also say there's a possibility that it won't happen.

Again, I got to see how I feel after doing what I'm doing. I'm back in the gym. I'm doing what I have to do in terms of getting. my body right, just me personally. It has nothing to do with wrestling, but just me personally. And, you know, my legs feel great now. You know, sometimes, you know, I had to, when you go through an injury like that, you know, your first reaction a lot of times is to sit down and relax.

Don't worry about it because your body gets tired real quick. And I've had to get past that. Like, even though my body was getting tired, I had to continue to walk. I had to continue to do things in the gym. to over, you know, overshadow that. And now I think I'm getting to that point because I've done that so much that now the legs are starting to feel normal again, not 100%, but it's almost there. So are you at your wrestling school like five days a week?

Is it more or less? I'm there. We're open Tuesday, Wednesdays, and Thursdays from 5 p.m. to 10 p.m. And I'm there all three days. And are you in the ring all three days? Sometimes I'm in the ring teaching and sometimes I'm, outside the ring teaching. Just like in NXT, a lot of the

trainings and stuff don't get in the ring in the next team. And so they teach from the outside. It is kind of easy to teach from the outside, believe it or not. But that's what I do when I'm there. So with the students that are coming into your school, what's something you're

looking for in someone who's actually going to go on and be successful in this business? Well, their drive, determination. How bad do they really wanted. You have some people that come in here, they do a push up or hit the rope one time. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I'm so tired. But when I see somebody that's really, really going at it and really try and shows that they're hungry enough that they're willing to do whatever it takes

to put their body through to get to where you need to be, because that's what I did. Then guess what? That shows me right there that you have what Mick Foley likes to say. What's the saying? He says, That's particular fortitude. Yeah, to go forward and do that. And I see that with some of the students, but I also see people that watch wrestling on TV and think they can do it. So when they come into the wrestling school,

it's like a culture shock door. They're like, oh, my God, my body's shutting down. What do I do? I said, well, number one, you're not an athlete. You never play the sport in your life. And again, that's not saying that people who don't play sports can't make it as a professional wrestler, but the statistics are not in their favor.

Yeah, I, trained when I was 20. I trained in Toronto where I'm from. And I didn't go in thinking it would be easy at all. But it was way more difficult than I could have ever possibly imagined. Because when people see it on TV, they just see the glitz, the glamour. They see, it's like play wrestling when they used to do it as a kid. So they don't realize how much goes into making it look as real as possible or as perfect as possible or what your body has to go through to feel the pain that you're about to feel. I mean, you know, people think the mats are so soft

that it doesn't hurt. BS, it'll knock you out. It'll knock you out. And that's what a lot of fans don't understand. Are you wearing your Hall of Fame ring right now? No, but I can get it. That's okay. I'm curious.

What's the inscription on the inside of your ring? Oh, God, I got to get it. Hold on. I love you. You don't even know this. This is great. So, you know, if you're going to put whatever they want on the inside as an inscription, and it's always so interesting finding out what everybody put on the inside.

I think, okay, so I got it right here. Devon Devon Hughes or Devon Dudley, Dudley boys. Nice. I love that you, it took you actually looking at it to figure it out. Yeah, because, I mean, again, it's one of those things where I don't look at it often and my memory ain't the greatest. Now you've been hit the head a few times. Just a couple of times. That's what I told my wife when I met her.

I said, listen, you got to forgive me if I don't, if I forget a lot of things because you know, I get hit the head a lot. She goes, um. Aside from seeing the Dudley Boys may be back, would you go back to WWE as an employee? Is that something we might see? I'm not interested in it. I'll be honest with you.

I had a great run. You know, I had a seven year. I'm sorry, eight year. That's including the year that we can't. back and then the producing years. I had a great time. I did. There was some stressful times working behind the scenes.

But, you know, again, I basically did what I was supposed to do there and my time was up. I believe God puts you in places where he needs to put you for that time being. And I think that's what happened with this. Now, here's what I'm also going to say, you know, when we left in 2005, the first time, it didn't settle right with me. It didn't set right with me at all. And even though we went to TNA, we went to Japan, we did what we did, it just didn't set right with me.

So I basically always felt that we needed to go back and we needed to leave the right way. And so I felt this time we didn't leave the right way. There's nothing left in the basement for me, talent-wise, to go back. or producer-wise, I'm okay. You know, I said in my tweet interview, which I messed up a couple of times some of the verbiage because my hands are too big,

but I'm sorry to type and I didn't bother to look at it again. But, you know, I thank, you know, Vince, I think Triple H, Stephanie, and the whole McMahon family for allowing me to come in there and to do what I did. I have no heart feelings.

I have none whatsoever. We agreed to disagree. towards the end. And that was when I knew that it was time to leave. You know, a lot of it was autographed signings and things like that. But, you know, again, they allow, you know, their talent to do certain things and things like that or their employees. And then there's other employees that they don't allow to do it, you know, whatever. I just felt that I should have been able to do certain things outside of the company.

if the company was not working at the time. So, you know, again, I was told no, and that was made public with the ECW arena that I got pulled from that show. And it caused a little bit of controversy. And then, you know, there was another issue. So my thing was, you know, again, agree to disagree. You know, I don't have any ill feelings, but I'm done. I think I'm finished. I'm not going to say never because in this business you never say never.

I do know that. But at the same token, the way I feel right now, there's no reason for me to go back. There's nothing there for me anymore. You know, everybody who I came up in the business with talent-wise is pretty much almost gone. And, you know, and it's not. But, you know, again, that shouldn't matter because you're not there for friends. You're there to make money and to have a job. But the same token, I just feel that that's not the thing.

the right fit for me. So again, I thank them for the opportunity that they gave me since 1999, up until, you know, January 23rd of this year. But it's just not for me anymore. You know, you mentioned TNA there. And you were there a lot longer than I think a lot of people even remember. Yeah, we were there for 10 years. Yeah, a long time. What's the thing you're proud of of your time in TNA? The, there's two things that I'm proud. Number one, the television title run because they gave me a fair chance. And I didn't look back at it back then.

I was very bitter at TNA for a long time when me and Bubba were there because when we and Bubba split up, I felt that they pushed him more than they tried with me. And, you know, I wouldn't got myself in the best possible shape I had to be in. my in-ring performance had improved tremendously and I just felt like they weren't being there

with what they would do it so I was very bitter for a long time and it was Hogan and Bischoff that actually fought for me to actually run with a television title and to do it so I was very happy and honored that they did that and it was a success. And I was very happy with that. You know, so the television title was definitely one. And the second was Aces and Aids.

Man, I love that. I loved that Aces and Apes was a very, very good time. You know, Eric Bischoff was the one that came up with it, with the idea from the television show, Sons of Anarchy. And it was a great time. We all had a good time. we all, you know, were doing great in ratings because of the work that we were doing. And when certain people that joined the organization at that time that were new coming in felt like they could write or do better than Eric.

And they wind up taking it away from Eric and they wind up doing it and then it just went right and it's all it. Do you think that Aces and Aets is the best faction that TNA has ever had? Absolutely. I'm sure there'd be other people that will disagree. I don't know what else comes to mind. Team Canada, maybe? Nah, I mean, I don't think it had the success that Aces Aes is in a good. I mean, we were just rolling.

Main event mafia? Main event mafia, again, some people might say them. I mean, again, it all depends on who you ask. You know, people's opinion. It's totally different. It may not be the same, but it is what it is. But I enjoyed myself tremendously. And when I look back at TNA, I do apologize, you know, for feeling and thinking that way.

Because when I look back at it, TNA was the only organization that ever gave me a true singles run. You know, it wasn't for the world title because, you know, whatever. but I was happy with the television title. To me, it was like the Intercontinental title. I don't think Ricky Steamboat was ever at a loss for words or angry because he didn't win a world's title. You know, Steamboat gave the Intercontinental title prestige. He gave it so much honor, you know, when he had that belted plus when he, you know,

won it from Savage at WrestleMania 3, you know, that to me, at one point in time, it felt like the intercontinental championship was bigger than the heavyweight championship. And that was the way I felt with the television title there. This may be a difficult one, but if you were to narrow it down, who's on your tag team Mount Rushmore? And you can put your guys, you can put the spot there. Okay. Of course, LOD. Okay.

I'm going to say the Rock and Roll Express. Okay. Are you putting yourselves on this? Nope. Nope. I'll put you guys on mine. I'll put you guys on mine. I still got two more to go.

That's right. I'm going to say Harry Gordy and Doc, Dr. Steve Williams. Wow. Yeah. Did I say the British Bulldogs? No. The British Bulldogs.

Okay. Wow. I was a huge British Bulldogs fan, huge, huge. Didn't understand as a young kid why we would always see Davey without dynamite. But of course, as I grew up in the business and learned the ends and out, I found out why later on. But I was a huge British Bulldog fan, so that's definitely one. And, you know, there's so many other tag teams. People are going to see this and go, well, damn, that's going to miss up.

Why would you just pick those guys? Well, again, if you're only allowed to pick a couple, those are my couple. But believe me, demolition, the heart foundation, you know, all of those tag teams, you know, I love. But you can only use, you know, you can only pick, you know, a certain amount. So the ones that I said will be the ones that's on now. Well, sir, I've really enjoyed this time. And I'm so appreciative of you taking time out of your day to finally make this happen. And I end every conversation.

Wait a minute. You're the boss. This is your thing. You could have gotten in touch with me after you got in touch with the boys. It's true. But you working for WWE makes things a little bit difficult. Well, really?

Does it really? Was I really there at the time when you spoke to the boys? I don't think I was. 2019. So. Damn. I was.

Yeah. Yeah. But here's a deal. If you were to contact me in 2019, there are certain things that I would not have been able to say as opposed to where I can say whatever I want to say now. Totally different stories. Much better conversation now.

Much better conversation. Everything happens for a reason and you've got to wait. I love it. So I end every conversation now with gratitude because it's such an important part of my day. So for you, what are three things in your life that you're grateful for as we sit here right now? My kids.

My love for God. And how blessed I am that during my career, the few minor bumps and bruises that I might have went through, you know, I was still able to get out of this unscathed and still able to keep my health. And just really be able to admire all of the love that I've gotten during that time of my illness, of the stroke and the back surgery and the fans,

you know, with all their support, I can't begin to thank them enough. And believe me, I read every single one of them. Just because I didn't respond back, please don't think that I didn't love or care. I do appreciate everything that the fans say, whether good or bad. You know, it keeps me, it keeps me going.

So I thank them a lot. And again, I just thank this business. And thank you. This is such a great conversation. And we'll do the next one in person, I promise. Okay, but you just can't ask the same questions because I might say something different. And you'd be like, wait a minute, Devar, you said big back then. Or next time, it's you and Bubba together and we'll just, you know, see what happens.

You know, it's hard to get me and him together unless you go to one of the Comic-Con or the Wizard Worlds or an event. Because, you know, he does his thing now and I'd be mine. He's got Bustin open radio, which I'm very proud of him with that, with that show and what he's doing. I am a little old school, though. I don't like giving the fans what we do. I mean, even though the business has been exposed already, sometimes I just don't like telling them word for word what should happen in the business

because I think there should be certain things that should be sacred. But the business has changed and you've just got to go along with the times. So I understand. But I love his show. him and Tommy and

Mark Henry Yeah they're doing a great job And you know Again I You know I can't Express you know How much love I have For him going out there

And doing what he's doing even after leaving WWE And being on his own for Since 2016 Yeah You know making it work for him I can't express my gratitude enough For you in this conversation

So again Thank you. Thank you so much. And I look forward to doing this again another time with you. Thank you. All right. Big thank you to Devon for being with us. Of course, big thank you to you as well for being on this journey with us on this episode and on every single episode. Man, it is episode number 472 here.

And the show is about to turn four years old. We started it in June of 2019. So almost 500. episodes in four years. Geez. And I appreciate you, whether you've been here for all 472 of them or whether this is your first one. Super appreciate you.

Please make sure you subscribe or you follow the show wherever you're listening right now. And take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening and share this out. Devon is at Testify, Devon. How good were those stories about Reverend Devon? I'm at Chris Van Fleet. and I'll leave you with these great words from Nick Rice.

We can't retract the decisions we've made. We can only affect the decisions that we're going to make from here. I like that. Don't focus on the past. Don't focus on the things that have happened before, the things that you have no control over. To quote John Cena, control the controllable. Focus on the things that are ahead of you

because those are the things that you actually can control. And those are the decisions that will shape the rest of your life. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one tomorrow. It's a special 40th birthday edition of Ask CVV. So if you have a question, tweet it to me using the hashtag Ask CVV and we'll get that tomorrow. So be great, be grateful. We will see you tomorrow for some more insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why? Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Ticket banj of it. Get up in here. The Jim Rome Show podcast.

What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.