Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Does Ken Anderson Have Regrets About His WWE Career?

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

Ken Anderson (@mrkenanderson) is an actor and professional wrestler known for his time in WWE when he went by "Mr. Kennedy" and in TNA Impact Wrestling where he was a 2-time TNA World Heavyweight Champion. He talks about his wrestling school called The Academy School of Pro Wrestling, how Paul Heyman helped to change the course of his career, how he came up with the name "Kennedy", his relationship with Vince McMahon, what winning the Money in the Bank ladder match at WrestleMania 23 meant to him, the regrets he has about his time in WWE, working for TNA and his epic cage match with Kurt Angle, training Gable Steveson and much more! For more information on The Academy School of Pro Wrestling visit: https://www.theacademysopw.com/ or call 507-722-2776 If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! Okay, welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm Chris Van Vleet, but you can call me CVV, and what a conversation we have today. Ken Anderson was actually one of the first wrestlers that I ever interviewed. The very first was Bobby Lashley in 2009. He was the ECW champion at the time, and I was hosting a show called 969 on MTV 2.4. Canada. But when behind enemy lines, Columbia came out in early 2009, I interviewed Ken at the time.

I was hosting a show in Toronto, and I'm sure he doesn't remember it. But I mentioned it to him during this interview. I'm sure he doesn't remember, but he was so kind to me then and so kind to me now as well. And we cover a lot during this conversation. Ken's name often pops up as one of the biggest what-ifs in pro wrestling. And he's really open about his time in debaumption. And he's really open about his time in WWE and takes ownership for the mistakes that he says he made there. Things also get pretty emotional when he opens up about how many of his friends have passed away, including Eddie Guerrero, who I'm not sure if you know this or not. Ken was actually Eddie's very last match before he passed away. Ken is still wrestling. He's keeping very busy with his pro wrestling

school called the Academy in St. Paul, Minnesota. You can check them out on their website. It's the Academy, sopw.com. That's School of Pro Wrestling, Sopw, Sopw. So the Academy, sopw.com. And snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Let us know so we can share it. So tag us. Ken is at Mr. Ken Anderson. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and let's get into it. It's me and Mr. Ken Anderson. Ken, yes, we're making this happen. Thank you so much. Thank you. Appreciate it. I love being here. Thank you. I love talking to you. When we were setting this up and you were like, yeah, any day between 6 p.m. and 2 a.m. I'm at the school, like at your wrestling school at the academy, I'm like, you're there until 2 a.m. on weekdays?

Yeah, yep. Pretty much every day. The class runs until we have beginners classes are six to nine and then nine to 12. and there's usually we go the full distance and they don't get any like rain time so I always like at the end of the night at midnight I let them just goof around and I figure that it's a if you're being productive and sometimes being productive

is just sitting around and BSing about the business with like-minded people if you're being productive might as well use the space you know it's here we're paying rent on it So if you're there until 2 a.m., what time do you get to bed and then what time do you wake up? Like 4 a.m. and then it depends. Like some days I have to go in and train early. I train some other clients earlier in the day. Like yesterday, I had to train somebody at noon. A couple times a week we do 2 p.m. So it's it varies. It's usually like I get the bed around 4 and then I'm up around 11 or 12.

So I had you up early today for this interview because we're doing this at noon, your time. time. No, actually, I woke up today. I was, I woke up at like 9 a.m. this morning. I was random to go. I nipped up out of bed. I gave my wife a flying head scissors. I think it's so important to point out, like, there's a lot of people that are going

to be watching this or listening to this that want to go to a great wrestling school. And I think it's so important to point out, like, if you want to go to a wrestling school, you want to go and be trained by someone who's been to the place that you want to be, like someone like you who's been in WWE, has been in TNA, been in NWA, been in NWA, like you've had an amazing career. You know the inner workings of not just what goes on in the ring, but

what goes on behind the scenes too. Yeah, and I will say this, that I don't regret not being trained by somebody that made it to the dance, because the guys that trained me were awesome,

even though they never quite made it to the scene. They just they sort of knew the inner workings, but there were a lot of things that they taught me that were slightly wrong. A lot of mistakes that I had to make on my own. I wrestled on the independence for six years before I got hired by WWE. And that was my goal from day one. I never said that to anybody,

but internally I was like, I want to go to WWA. And then when I started sending tapes and getting responsive, from Kevin Kelly, and then I got booked as an extra. Then I was like, okay, I can do this. And I figured all I have to do is just get better every time. I have to show improvement and, you know, I'll eventually get hired. But yeah, I do think that the reason that I opened this school in the first place was because I wanted to cut out a lot of those missteps that people have to make.

You know, I had to kind of stumble and bumble my way and figure it. things out and I'm able to like cut a lot of those corners for people I think so you were one of my first ever wrestling interviews and this was right when your movie was coming out behind enemy lines Columbia and I was still working in Toronto at the time and you were doing like a press tour and I'll never forget it because I wanted to do your intro like on camera we did the mic check we were all ready to go and I was like hey it's Chris Fanfleet here with mister and then you grabbed the mic, you did the intro, and my cameraman is like, no, no, no, stop, stop, stop. You should have told me you were going to be yelling.

I got to adjust the audio levels now. And I'm like, oh, and both me and you looked at each other, like, oh, we got to do the thing again now. That's all right. We did something again. That's fantastic. You know, being backstage at WWE or TNA, they need silence. it's one of those backstage interview. A lot of times they're recorded during the day.

Yeah. There have been times where it seems like we would record 50 times and we'd get busted by somebody in and cut, cut, cut, got to do it again. So I was kind of used to it at the time, I think. Do you remember like what it was like? You know, you're in WWE city to city to city. And then you get put on this movie. And now it's not only city to city with WWE in that scale.

schedule. But now you're also promoting this other thing. Like, were there months when you just weren't home at all? When we filmed the movie, we were gone for like a month. I want to say five weeks. We were in Puerto Rico filming. But I mean, it was just kind of the, the minute that I went from being at OVW to being on the road, it was like my life changed. The four years that I was at WWE was a complete whirlwind. It was a complete blur to me. There are things that I did that I, I've forgotten until I see a video or something like that

or somebody brings it up and I'm like, oh, yeah, I completely forgot about that. It's crazy. But that's just kind of the life. And you learn to sort of love it. Or it eats you up, I guess. There was a story that when I was there, when I first started that John Cena had been home,

one day out of 365 days. He had been on the road because he would go from, you know, wrestling, house shows, pay-per-views, and then he'd have appearances and things like that that he would have to do. And this was before he was doing movies. So that's just kind of, that's the way it goes. And I always looked at, they would come to me and say, hey, we've got this appearance for you out in California on your day off.

do you want to do it and, you know, it would be sometimes like unpaid or we would do interviews with people and they would be unpaid and some people would complain about that. I always looked at it as this free advertising for my business, you know. So I love doing it. I love doing it. And yeah, it was just, it was kind of crazy. At what point during your WWE run or maybe it was when you were in OVW, do you feel like Vince or somebody else, the office kind of pointed at you and went, you, yes, like, we're going to strap a rocket to your back because I feel like that's what happened. Was there a specific moment when that happened? There was. I don't say this with great glee, but I will say that the best thing that ever happened

to me in my career was Jim Cornett, slapping paint brushing, Santino Morella backstage at at OVW because, excuse me, he, uh, he did that and he got fired and they brought Paul Heyman and I had done some stuff with Paul would come down every couple months and he would do a promo day and we would have to come up with an opponent and a two minute promo. We would go in and sit in a room with Paul and a camera, cut the promo. Then he would give you some feedback, a few notes. Then you'd go home and fine tune it and come back the next day and cut it again. And I remember I would come back and I would sit down.

And he was always kind of like not standoffish, but just professional, you know. And then I would come back on the second day. And I would cut the promo and he would go, I love it. Great. I'd say any notes or anything? Nope. Loved it. Thank you.

And I was like, God, this guy hates me. Okay. That's the worst. Sometimes when you're trying to learn and you're trying to get to that next. level that's the worst thing is not hearing anything at all not hearing any feedback there's got to be something that i can do better sure um and then when when that happened and paul haman came in the first day to do tv at ovbw he pulled me into the office and he said you're the next guy out of here he literally said those words he said you're the next guy out of here he said i've been a fan of

yours since i saw you when you were an extra because i i had been an extra one time and uh all the extras were in the ring, like doing, like, there had to be 10 of us. And we were just kind of tagging in and tagging out and you get in there and wrestle. And guys were getting in there and they would just chain wrestle. And I remember DeVari had been hired at that time already. And he pulled me aside and he was like, that's not what they're looking for. They don't care if you can wrestle. They don't want to see moves.

They want to see character. And so when I got in there, I made sure to show some character and stuff. And Jim Ross and Paul Ham were sitting ringside. They were the only two people there because, like, everybody. else was in a staff meeting or something. And I tagged out and Paul said, come here for a second. And I walked over to me. He was like, who trained you? And I was like, I got trained by two guys in Green Bay. And then I got polished up and fine-tuned by Brad Rangens. And his eyes lit up because Brad Rangens trained Brock Lesnar. And he was like, and he asked me a couple questions. And from that

point on, it was like, I think at the end of the day, he gave me his number. And he told me like, call my call my number next week let's talk and i was like here we go you you became a paul haman guy that's what it sounds like yeah yep and uh but i would call every week and he would never return my phone call so so uh you know then fast forward um we're in that office and he says you're the next guy out of here i've been a fan of yours since that day and i've loved your promo work and stuff and i'm going to do so much stuff with you on tv that they're going to have to take no notice and you'll get pulled up. And that first night, OVW was in one-hour program.

And I think I had 35 to 40 minutes on that first one-hour program that Paul Heyman did. And five weeks later, I got a call from Tommy Dreamer and said, hey, they want you to come up and they want to see you. They want you to do your gimmick because I had just started doing the, you know, the announcer thing, announcing my name and saying my last name twice. and I went up and this was crazy because I was just supposed to do a dark match. It was supposed to be a dark match against Finaki. Fennaki was going to win the match. And I was in guerrilla position. I'm warming up, doing push-ups, going over everything in my head.

And Vince walked by. And Vince would never come up and see the dark matches and stuff. He would sit down literally as the pyrole was going off for Smackdown or Raw or whatever. And he came up and he nodded at me. And then, like, two minutes later, Dave Lugana came walking around the corner and he said, hey, there's been a change. And I immediately in my head, I was like, I got, they're pulling my match. Okay, no big deal. And he said, we have to come up with a finish for you because you're going over.

You're winning the match. And this is no longer going to be a dark match. This is going to be a televised match. And welcome aboard. And he stuck out his hand. I was like, really? And he's like, yeah. And earlier in the day, I had gone in and done a promo.

Brooklyn Brawler pulled me aside. He's like, hey, come here and cut a promo. And I went in. I just had something in my back pocket because I had cut so many, you know, it's been six years. And I hit that promo. And I remember he said, like, I'm going to tell Vince. That was awesome.

And he did. So it was like all these things sort of murder. together and I, you know, I was very fortunate to be in the right place at the right time also. I've heard Jim Ross talk about how you had this star quality about you when he first saw you and that he actually likened it to Stone Cold Steve Austin. Is Austin someone that you looked up to? Big time. Yeah. Like, Austin was the reason that I got into business in the first place.

I was not a wrestling fan growing up when Austin started having his run mats when I started watching wrestling. And I watched my friend kind of suckered me into it. it and then I would start watching every week just to see what he would do and then I and then I was like well Undertaker's kind of cool too. I'm laughing because this is exactly how I got sucked in my brother is a huge wrestling fan and it was rock that I was drawn to and I'm like what's going to happen this week with that guy now it's going to happen this week and then I was sucked right in yeah the rock I mean it was when I first started watching the rock was a heel and they were chanting

I think die, Rocky die for real. Like, people really meant it. Yeah. And then he went to, he cut some promo, and I remember I was at work. I was a security guard at a nuclear power plant. We'd always have to stand in this room and, you know, when you were changing shifts, and they'd give you the pass-ons from the previous shift. And we would just talk wrestling and everybody started like, what about that rock?

What about that promo? It was really funny. And then he just kept it up. You worked at a nuclear power plan? I did. Yeah. Okay. So I grew up in figuring Ontario and it was a nuclear power plant on Lake Ontario there.

So I was like two, three miles from a nuclear power plant, which may explain why my skin glows or something. I don't know. But how long did you work at this nuclear power plant? Which one was it? It was Point Beach. It was a Point Beach nuclear power plant in two rivers, Wisconsin. And I worked there for probably four years. I was an armed security guard.

So, you know, I carried a gun with me. This sounds like a James Bond movie. Yeah, I remember I was 19 years old when I took the job and I loved it. You know, I get to play cops and robbers. And we would, every once a year, we would do this thing where we would have people come in and try to infiltrate. And we would have to make sure that our security measures were up to standard and they worked. Oh, man. And we're also working as a personal trainer, too, right? So I didn't start personal training. The reason why I took the personal training gig was I wanted to wrestle.

And the nuclear security gig, I had to work every other weekend. So I was passing up a lot of opportunities to take bookings. Sure. And I moved over here to the Twin Cities. And I got a job as a trainer because I figured I could train Monday through Thursday. Yeah. I get a free gym membership. I'm already there, so I'm definitely going to hit my workouts. And it was just the flexibility. I could travel and I could wrestle Friday, Saturday, and Sunday every week. And that's pretty much what I tried to do for a couple years. And DeVari, you know, I had a couple.

I get a good crew that I was rolling with. DeVari was my, like, he became one of my best friends, which is weird because he's like 10 years younger than me. But it was just like we had that same, we will do anything. My wife is waving at me. She's 10 years younger than me. 15 years younger than me. But it was weird at the time because DeVarri was like 19 years old. But you know, there is a large group of people on this planet, myself included,

who can't say Green Bay, Wisconsin without saying Green Bay, Wisconsin. You got to get the, no. Yes, I'd like to thank you for this, Ken. You're welcome. I don't know if everybody realizes this. You're actually doing MMA announcing now. I am. Yep.

I work for... I mean, this is great that it was something you kind of started with because you were doing, like you were doing, there was a basketball announcing originally? That's originally what started the gimmick. It was, I did basketball announcing when I was in high school. And that becomes part of the gimmick. And look, you know, it's full circle here now. Yeah, it was weird.

One of my friends, Samoa Joe, reached out to me, and he had a friend who was trying to get a hold of me because he wanted me to take a shot at boxing announcing. So I went in for top rank, and I auditioned. And then about a year and a half ago, I started doing MMA announcing for a local MMA company. So this has been fun. but I I watch MMA but I'm not like a student of it you know so I'm having to learn how everything works you know I want to I don't want to announce the wrong thing you know what's so much more than just saying names and weights and hometowns and I don't know if everybody realizes that yeah it's a lot of like improv you know that somebody comes up to you and says hey I want you to put over

XYC you have to do that right away Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the ironic part about what you just said is that's what got you over. Like, at first you were just saying, and then the microphone coming down, the lights, like, that became a, grabbing a microphone from the bottom, I'm going to grab my water bottle. Like, grabbing a microphone like this became like a thing because of your gimmick. It's stupid. I didn't change a thing as far as my reference. wrestling goes. I remember, like, I just started saying my last name twice and I got on TV. I mean, you really want to like a real lesson to be learned there that it's not just about what you do in the ring. In fact, it may be more about what's your character. Can you sell T-shirts? Are you memorable?

I think that's the biggest thing. Yep. I just saw an interview. I think it was, uh, Baines McMahon on the Pat McAfee show where he said, like, I don't care about wrestling moves. and I keep trying to drill this into my students and they're, hey, look at this new move that I came up with. And I don't want to be a, I don't want to be a jerk, but I'm kind of like, that's cool, but, you know, that doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter in the end.

If you can do, if you can do 75 cool moves, but you can't talk to a crowd, you know, you can't tell a story with your actions. and there's a guy who can literally do like a clothesline, a hip toss, and a body slam, and that's it. But he's got a great character. The WWE, and they have to hire somebody. They're going to hire the person that can do four things. I think, though, there's a lot of people that heard Vince McMahon saying, I don't care that you're not a great restaurant.

Of course, I'm paraphrasing here, but I think there's a lot of people that went, well, this is exactly why WWE, the ratings are down. It's like, no, like, it's a different, it's an entertainment business. That's why they get rid of, you know, that's why it's world wrestling entertainment. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, and I think it always has been. I mean, granted, there are those who love it for the wrestling, but I think a majority of people that watch wrestling, they like the entertainment value.

Well, look, my favorite match of all time is Rock Hogan, WrestleMania 18. I was there because I grew up in Toronto. know and like as in terms of an actual wrestling match not great nobody's doing nothing crazy but the story there incredible and the fact that when you hear what happened like they turned they they listened to the crowd they actually listen to the crowd and said we're going this way instead of you know because i believe rock was supposed to be the baby face and hogan was the heel right

yeah yeah and then they switched it Hogan told me that when they heard the reaction, they got into the corner. And first of all, he told Rock, like, slow the F down. And they slowed down. And then they both, you know, basically switched roles. And Hogan also told me that he didn't realize the NWO was going to turn on him after that match. And that was a decision that was made in Gorilla right after the match. Because the ref just told, Mike Keota just told him, stay in the ring.

And he thought, that's kind of weird. I didn't win. Why would I be staying in the ring? and then sure enough, Nashan Hall came out, turned on him, and like that was all, they just came up with that. On the spot at WrestleMania.

That's crazy. Wow. Is the WrestleMania moment for you, WrestleMania 23, holding that briefcase on top of the ladder? Yeah, there it is. Definitely. And I remember like,

I just got a phone call. No, it's okay. I remember thinking, like that was what I wanted to do when I grabbed it. And I start climbing the ladder and you can see I look up and I'm like, this isn't going to be a good shot. So I shifted the ladder over. So it's directly underneath that briefcase.

Yeah, definitely. And you know the crazy thing about that was I remember walking through the curtain and looking out and expecting to see this. Like, you know, it's 83,000 people. That's the most people I had ever wrestled in front of. Sure. And it didn't look like it. It just looked like a really jam-packed, you know, 15,000 seat, 20,000-seat arena.

So just like a raw or a Smackdown? Yeah. And so then I went, I did my match and I showered up and I went up to the boxes because they had a luxury box up there for the family members. And that's when I got over to the window and I looked out and I saw this giant sea of people and this little tiny ring and the same. matter of everything. And then it dawned on me what I had just done. It was kind of crazy. I mean, when you look at everybody else that was in that match, they're all

Hall of Famers or future Hall of Famers. In fact, at fact, do you remember everybody in that match? I think Randy, Booker T, Edge, Matt Hardy, Jeff Hardy, Finley. You say Booker? I thought I did,

but Booker. Finley. Booker Finley. Edge, Matt, Jeff, Randy, Punk, Punk, that's right. Yeah. And then we had this funny moment because Punk and I were on like, I don't know, I think it was Punk's first show ever and my second show ever. We were on this show together.

And it was in like Whitewater, Wisconsin. And we hadn't talked about it in forever. Like it just hadn't been brought up. And the very last thing is punk and I are up at the top of the ladder. we're trading blows. And then I think he goes up and I take a ladder and I knock him off. But when we're trading blows, he goes, hey, it's kind of a far try. We're kind of far away from Whitewater, Wisconsin, wouldn't you say?

Like, you know, we're trading back and forth. And it was just kind of a cool moment that I had with him. Oh, man. I see a lot of parallels to your run at that point, you winning money in the bank to what's going on right now with Austin Theory. And I don't know, do you feel like there's any parallels there? I don't know. I can't say like with absolute certainty because I'm not, I don't follow closely.

Like I usually watch because I'm spending so much time at the academy. I probably don't watch as much wrestling as I should. But what I have seen of Austin theory, I love. But I think he's got everything, all the tools necessary. Vince loves him, right? That seems to be the thing. I feel like Vince thinks he has the look and the skills, Mike skills.

Yeah, which, you know, again, sounds a heck of a lot like Ken Kennedy. I heard a great story that when you were coming up with your name, there was like a meeting because you were going by your, you know, legit name, Ken Anderson. Yep. There was talk of making your name a whole because you were an a hole.

So, so I, Vince asked me, do you have any catchphrases? And I said, yeah, nice guys finished last, thank God, I'm an asshole. And he was like, they had just gone PG. He was like, no, I don't, we can't do that. And then Johnny was kidding. So it was like Johnny, Stephanie, Kevin Dunn, Vince,

I think that's who was all in that room. And Johnny goes, well, hey, hey, how about what if? What if your name was like Adam Hull? And then you could say, nice guys, finish last. Thank God, I'm an A hole. And it would be. And I remember Vince just, there was a silence in the room. And Vince just looked up at me and he goes, what do you think of that?

Uh-oh. And I said, I like it. I think it's funny. But I feel like that would be sort of a flash in the pants. Somebody that would be here for like two or three months and then be done. It sounds very gimmicky. And I went on being here for a long time. And Vince was like, it was like almost as though it were a test.

When you. Yeah, that was. When you took Vince's middle name and made it your last name, was there a moment where Vince was like, huh, I see what you're doing here. I like it. I feel like he did. Because it was Paul that suggested in the first place because I called Paul and I said, hey, they want me to change my name. what do you think? And he was like,

you know, you have to pick something that is near and dear to his heart. He was like, his dog's name is Ruckus or Rumpus. I think he had two dogs at time.

But what about Kenny Rumpus? Kenny Ruckus? No. And then I had, I was Kamikaze Ken when I started in the Indies and I had these like backwards K's and I wanted to sort of like

keep that as my logo. And I was like, something with a K and he was, Kennedy is his middle. And then I remember when we were in that room, and I said that, he just paused for me. He was, oh, I don't think there's ever been a Kennedy. Do you like it?

And I was like, I like Ken Anderson, to be honest with you. But you can call me Mr. Dickhead if you want to. It's your company. And he just kind of smirked. And then he looked at Kevin Dunner, and he goes, make sure he's got Kennedy on his tight front time. That was the second week. That was the week that I debuted on SmackDown. So the first two weeks that I was there on TV, I was Anderson.

Wow. So when they're talking about you winning money in the bank and you do win the match, are there plans at that time for like, all right, you're going to win it here at WrestleMania 23? Did they already have the plans written out of when you were going to cash in? Yeah, the idea was that I would cash in it in next year's WrestleMania. That was the plan. They said it. I announced it right away, I believe.

You did, yeah, but I mean, there's change, I feel like. Yeah, and that was the plan. And then a few months later, I feel like I only had it a month and a half, two months maybe, and they came to me. I was riding with Matt Hardy.

We had left the building early, which was unlike us. We usually stayed until the very end. For whatever reason that day, we left early. And I got a call from Michael Hayes, and he said, where are you? guys, I need you to come back. Vince needs to talk to you in his office. I scurried back to the

building and I was walking into his office and by the time we got back there, everybody had pretty much filed out so it was empty building. I remember Batista coming out of Vince's office and we passed each other in hall and he just came up to me and he gave me a big hug and he's like, you but you deserve it, bro. And I, you know, I played stupid. I was like, what do you, what do you mean? What do you mean? He was like, I just, you know, go in there that I want them to tell you. So I went in and it was Vince and Stephanie and they said, look, we had planned on having Taker as the champion for like a really long time. Unfortunately, he's injured towards biceps, I believe, and he needs to have surgery. So we are going to next week and he laid out

this scenario basically. And he's like, you're going to cash in your briefcase. We're going to a new champion. And I remember him telling me that they were high on Batista at the time. That was their guy. And that if Batista, you know, sometimes guys are better when they're chasing the title. When they have it, they kind of like, their ratings kind of dip. And they felt like Batista needed to chase for a while. And they said, you know, when we feel the time is right, we're going to put it on

Batista. but we don't know how long that could be. It could be like a month or five months or six months, whatever. And I remember I just said, like, look, I appreciate you guys saying that, but this is business and I'll do what's necessary. And then the very next time I wrestle, I got clotheslined, and I hit the mat and I felt something poppy in my triceps. I rolled out to the floor, and I remember Finley came out and he looked at me and goes,

that doesn't look good. And by the time I got downstairs, it was already, my arm was swollen up. and bend it. It was starting to change colors already, which is really weird because you know, bruising normally takes like a week, like those deep bruises. Yeah. And then I went to, I went to, I remember Hornswoggle drove me to the emergency room in Erie, Pennsylvania. I got an MRI. And then the next day, Stephanie called me in my hotel room, and she's like, Ken, you tore your triceps off the bone. We're going to have to, uh, we still need to get that title off a taker, though. So we're sending Vince to this jet to be.

you up. We're going to take you to Penn State. You're going to, Edge is going to challenge you for the briefcase, and then he's going to go on and do what you were supposed to do tomorrow night. Okay. And I remember thinking at the time, like, I've got here to catch this thing in. Isn't there some other way that you can get it often? But I didn't say it. I sort of regret not saying it now, but. And then I went in, Edge called me a chicken. I said, nobody calls me chicken. And I gave up the briefcase. The next day I flew to Burmese. The next day I flew to Burmese. Birmingham, Alabama, I'm sitting on Doc Andrews table, and he's feeling my triceps, and he was like, that's not a tear.

And I was like, excuse me? And he goes, no, I don't, I don't feel a tear in there. There's not a tear there, I'm pretty sure. So we did another MRI, and sure enough, it was just a bruise. It was like a large bunch of blood vessels burst inside my triceps. He said, you'll be out for four or five weeks, and then that was it. So kind of a crazy. How did that derail all the momentum that you had, though?

Because I feel like it could be just a month later, you're back in the title picture. Like you challenge edge again. I mean, it was frustrating, but I knew that that's just the way the business rolls. You know, the job of a WWE writer has to be the worst job in the world or the hardest. because most writers that write for television shows, you know, he had 22 episodes in a season. These guys have to come up with content, you know, every single week. Plus, it's not just, they're not just writing for one show.

They're writing for Raw and SmackDown, and then they have to come up for the pay-per-views and online content and stuff. So I get it. Like, sometimes they just, hey, they're, It's a mad scramble. People get hurt. What are we going to do?

What are we going to do? That's not the same, you know, that's not just completely abandoning everything. So it was frustrating. And it had happened to me a couple times at that point. So it was, that was really frustrating. But it was what it was. And I just thought like I'll bounce back. I'll be okay.

I feel like your name is thrown around so often in these like what if conversations. How does it make you feel? knowing that like your WWE career is like a what if? It's a good question. You know, externally, I like, you know, everybody, I have no regrets. And I am what I am today because of the things that happen to me. But there is that part of me that I heard somebody yesterday said if you could relive your best moment, if you could either relive your best moment or redo your work.

moment, what would you do? And I think I would redo my worst moments, you know? Yeah, there's a, and I guess what I'm able to do now with that is, I can't change the past, obviously, but I can hopefully pass that information along to my students, you know? is, does winning the TNA championship twice, does that make you feel like you did reach the top of the mountain? No. No, I think, you know, and that's nothing against TNA, but like, they just weren't the same. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, it wasn't the same. And, uh, but, but it's okay. Like, I'm not, you know, I'm not crying my oatmeal about it. Like, it is what it is. we got to move on. But yeah, I do have some regrets. For sure. Any point when you're making a name for yourself in TNA,

when you're the guy in TNA, that WWE kind of goes, oh, look what Kent's doing these days. Do you ever hear from them? I had heard that from somebody in the office that Vince had said, I think he regretted pulling the trigger so quickly on firing me. and I probably should have like reached out at the time

but I had such a huge chip on my shoulder. I had a chip on my shoulder for years from, you know, the way that I left WWE. And, uh, and, you know, and today I will say honestly,

like that was all my fault. Like I, I am responsible. Nobody did anything to me. I did it to myself. So, um, you know,

it was just a, the straw that broke the camels back there at the end. Um, but, that's that I heard that and then at some point I cut a promo and I remember Randy Orton texting me and saying that I was an awesome promo and I believe he was being serious I don't think it was sarcastic but I feel like though it takes a lot of self-awareness now though to be able to go yeah that was my fault I did that because I can imagine at the time you didn't feel that way

yeah I definitely didn't want to take ownership for it at all I wanted it to be somebody else's you know, a bunch of people conspired against me to get me fired. I should have never been in a position in the first place where other people could inspire against me at all, you know. I think it was just a matter of like I kept saying things and doing things. And I really, to be honest, I sort of phoned it in for the last couple of years. I made it there and, you know, I took my foot off the gas. I really did.

And I don't remember. exactly where I was going with that. I took my photo off the gas, damn it. I think one of the really interesting facts about your career in WWE is you were Eddie Guerrero's last match. And I don't know if I mean, I think a lot of people obviously remember the shocking news when he passed, but a lot of people don't remember, you know, what happened before that. What are your memories of that last match with Eddie? I remember I remember him telling me

to calm down in the beginning we did some chain wrestling I remember I was scrambling to get to the ropes quickly to break and I remember him telling me like just calm down

like you don't have to go so quickly there and then I remember in the when we were talking through the match I'm supposed to hit him with the chair at the end and I remember he said like bring it

like hit me with it and I was it like, okay, I'm going to hit you with it. And then I hit him with it. And we got backstage and it was like, maybe a little too much. But then we went out to dinner that night. I was riding, I was actually riding with him and Benoit at the time. And we went to a steakhouse.

And I remember they were talking because the next week after, it was like a super show in Minneapolis. It was raw and Smackdown. I'm not sure if ECW was around. at the time yet. But it was going to be Ron Smackdown Super Show and then we were heading to the airport. We were going to fly out and doing my first international

tour. They were like, you know, you're going to get, they're going to mess with you, they're going to shave your eyebrows while you're sleeping, you know, stuff like that. Get me all riled up for the and then I remember I pulled into the arena and the guy that parks the cars that helps park

Park all the vehicles told me. He's like, Eddie died. And I walked into the building and it was just like this crazy, sick feeling that everybody had all day. Everybody was super somber, sad. It was a crazy, crazy day.

I feel like it, you know, it just must have been such a whirlwind of everything that was going on. And then the show still ends up going on. Yeah. And I will say, that with all of the death that I have personally, people that I've known, even if it was just briefly,

people that I've known that have passed away in this business in the last 23 years since I started, has really sort of, it almost like deadens you to, you know, when I hear of somebody dying, it's like, that's too bad. You know, it's like, I hate that I feel that way. And I don't, it's not like I don't care. It's just we've experienced so much of it that I don't know, I don't know what that is. I've never gone to a wrestler funeral either.

Never know that. Nope. Whose death do you think hits you the hardest? She probably shabbed. Just because of like the way that it happened and what he did could do. I remember reading that story. And I'd tear. rolling down my face. I just texted Chad, Chad, like a few weeks before that, we were supposed to do an

interview. And I'm reading this story, obviously saddened that he passed away. But then, like, the fact that he sacrificed his own life for his son's life. It's just, that just tells you how special a person he was. Yeah. It's, and we all hope that we would do that in that moment, but he did. Sorry. Oh, I'm sorry for bringing it up. No, it's okay. I mean, I think it's good to talk about it. It's real.

It was so nice to see WWE honor him this year because so often when someone leaves the company, it's like, you know, you're gone and forgotten. And it was so nice that it was like you're still remembered, and we want to acknowledge you for this incredible. act of heroism. Yeah. It was really, it was really something else to see. Yeah, you're right. Normally, everybody, you know, if somebody dies, they get a rip at the beginning of Raw. But, yeah, that was pretty special. It really was. To have his son and his wife there. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, it's crazy to think of everything that goes on. You know, I've been

kind of in the industry, but I've been mostly at arm's length my whole career as just a fan, a fan that's had the opportunity to talk to so many incredibly talented people. But when you're in this for 23 years, and you have to explain everything that's going on here, the travel and, you know, the changes on the fly and all of this stuff and then dealing with losing your friends, I don't think there's any other career like this in the world. I really don't. I honestly don't. And I think that the humor that wrestlers have

because of just the craziness, we have to, like, edit ourselves when around sips, you know? SoCalvall always says, you got to edit yourself when you're around the civilians. Sives, that's so good. Because, like, you know, we'll say stuff, and we'll think it's funny, but like if you said that in front of any normal human being,

they would think you are absolutely crazy. It's a little bit like the world of comedy, I feel like, because we're a comedian. Yeah, you've got to do the same thing. You've got to travel town to town just for stage time. You might make a few dollars. You might not. I feel like it's very similar.

Yeah, you're making, yeah, they make jokes that like something tragic happens. And like they're immediately in the car that day telling jokes to each other, that they know that they can't tell to the audience. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, definitely. Yeah, there is a lot of parallels between stand-up and pro-Ressling.

If the moment for you in WWE is this, it's holding the briefcase at WrestleMania 23, what's the moment for you in TNA? I think it was, honestly, it was when I said something like, I was tagging with Jeff Hardy and I said something like because the week before I had said,

Nice guys finished last thing I meant Vince would never let me do that and I always envisioned that as like a T-shirt I envision the crowd because at the time they would chant you're an asshole or something like that to Vince and I remember thinking what if it was like

you know in a positive place you're an asshole like and Vince, I just couldn't convey that to him. And one of my biggest regrets was WrestleMania 23 after I won that money in the bank briefcase. Michael Hayes came out to me and he goes, they want you to cut a promo afterwards and they wanted to be your Austin 316 moment.

And I was like, I'm going to say it, you know? And I'm going to hit the line. Nice guys. I think out of an asshole and I'm going to walk off. And I remember, all right, I better just ask. I better ask. And so I asked permission. And of course, at the time, there was no swearing, no cursing.

But it was, it was WrestleMania. I thought I'd get away with it. And I would have gotten away with it too. But I asked permission and they said no. And so, you know, that's the worst thing. Like if you ask for permission, they say, no, you can't do it. Yeah, that's better, you know, that phrase of like beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission. Yeah, oh, I'm sorry. I just felt it in the moment. I should have done that. I won't do it again.

What was the Austin 316 moment for you? It was the, and then, and then, so it ended up, it ended up being kind of a flop, right? I said something like, nice guys finished last night, God, I'm, mister. This doesn't hit as well as nice guys finished last night. God, I'm an asshole, Markroff. And then I set it in T&A because they let me do it. and then the crowd started chanting, we are assholes, we are assholes. And then I got a T-shirts,

and it was pretty hot selling T-shirt at TNA. And I just remember thinking, like, with the WWE marketing machine behind something like that, it would have been a lot better. One of the big things I remember about your time in TNA was the cage match with Kurt Engel. And his insane, insane moonsault

off the top. On basically your face. He didn't touch me, one. It was, he's a true professional. There's a lot of kind of funny memories

about that match. One was, they had given us 23 minutes. And on the day, like, we had, 23 minutes, not 20, not 25. Yeah. It was like 23 minutes. and I remember on the day, so they had told us that for weeks leading into it.

And Kurt is the kind of person that likes to put things together in his head way ahead of time, like two or three weeks before he came up to me. He was like, hey, I pretty much got, you know, a bunch of our match figured out. And I just, I'd never worked with anybody like that. And so he had, you know, planned out this big more thing. And then on the day, they said, they cut 10 minutes. out of the match. So it went from 23 to 13, which is a huge difference. And that's including entrances? Yep. Oh, yeah. It's 13 total. Curtin to curtain, 13. And I remember he said,

like, we're going 23. And I was like, we are? He goes, yep, goes, don't worry about it. I'll take the heat. Okay. I remember we're in the match and Slick was our referee. And Slick kept going, come on, they're saying, go home. They're screaming in my ear. And Kurt turned him and said, I don't care. And then I think Slick turns to the hard cam. He just kind of gave one of those, like, but we ended up going the full time.

And the other thing was, they did not want him doing the moonsault off the top of the cage. So he just said, we're going to do it anyways. Don't tell anybody about it. And Deal was our agent. He was our producer. And he came up to me, afterwards and he was like, God, what that moon's off off the top of the cage?

Did you know that was going to happen? I was like, and he just smirked and walked away like he knew. But didn't get any heat. The only heat that we got was, I remember, AJ and Rick Flair were pretty upset because their time got cut. So they had some time for their match too. And theirs ended up getting cut down because we went so long. I did feel bad about that, though.

But that was you bring up with a flare. I feel like the timing here is good because his last match, I mean, his last last, last match is next weekend? What do you think about him? Is this his last match? What do you think about it? You know, I don't know. Like, he's like a cyborg.

You know, he just keeps ticking. I just, I hope that the match goes well. I just want it to be entertaining, you know. And I think it will. I think they're doing a tag match, if I'm not mistaken, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think that he'll come in and he'll do his Rick Flair stuff and everybody else. It's a tag match with two guys who could really work, Andrade and Jay Lethal on either side.

So, like I feel like Jeff Jarrett and Flair are kind of, like you said, get their stuff in and make it a memorable match. I think it'll be cool. I really do. Do you think he'll go over? You know, I don't know. I feel like he's kind of like taker in the sense that he believes in that old school. You go out looking up, looking up at the lights. Yeah.

You know, like that's the time honored tradition in our business. When you're done, you do the favors for somebody on the way out the door. I feel like probably the other team will win. but it feels like it makes sense. Right. Yeah. But maybe it's not, right?

Not a lot, but I'm starting to take more bookings. I took a couple years off when the pandemic occurred, even right before that, I got, I injured my groin somehow.

I was wrestling one of my students on a show and I crouched myself on the top-dirt muscle and I just couldn't walk for like three months. So I just kind of took some time off and I'm really starting to get back into it.

Being that I have so many great students, they're sort of fueling that passion for me again. And being that, you know, I'm at a gym. The place that we're at is a boxing gym, which is also, there's also a full weight room there and everything. So once a lot of the reason why I'm there until 2 o'clock in the morning is, because I'm, you know, working out at 1 a.m. So I plan on taking more bookings coming up here. I'm not done for sure.

I feel like with your Mike Skos, you could be a great manager or like general manager in WWB. Like, I feel like you could really fill that role. I would love, I would like something like that for sure. Where? Go ahead. I was going to say, where did your Mike skills come from? Because it feels, as a fan, it feels like a Nate.

Like, it just feels like it was so natural for you. Um, from the time I was a little kid, I remember I tell jokes and I, I always wanted to be an actor or a comedian or something like that. So, you know, I did play acting when I was in high school in forensics. We took state, we went to state, got gold medals three years in a row. I was in some plays and stuff like that. And I love speech class. So it was just kind of something that I was. I just sort of gravitated too.

And when I first started in the business, I remember studying guys like the rock. And I made sure that when I was on a show, that if the promoter would let me, I would grab a microphone and cut a promo and work on my mic skills. And the first company that I worked for actually had a little television show locally.

And they did a lot of backstage interviews and stuff like that. So I've got a chance to like hone those skills a little bit there. I just feel like your skills are still untapped. I feel like you could be putting these to great use if given the opportunity. Maybe, maybe. I guess we'll see. I've been getting in the ring a lot more and rolling around with some of my students.

I have a couple students right now that have WW. tryouts. One guy that signed at WWE. Who's that? That's Gable Steveson. He's been training with us. He's local.

He lives in the Twin Cities. And he's been signed out for a year. And they really haven't done much with him. So he just wanted to like, he reached out and said, hey, can I come in and like just hit the ropes and stuff? So we've been doing a couple times a week with him. and I've got some of my best students working with him.

I feel like there's a lot of high hopes for Gable and what he's capable of, especially seeing the path that's been blazed before him by people like Kurt Angle or Brock Lesnar or Shelton Benjamin. I feel like Gable has like high expectations of him and like really big shoes to fill. He does, definitely. He's got some amazing innate ability that you just can't. teach somebody the first time I remember he came in and I said what do you know how to do and he goes nothing.

Have you taken a bump yet? I've never taken a bump. Do you know how to run the ropes? And he knew how to run the ropes, kind of. And so I told him how to take his first bump. And normally I go through this whole progression where I have people hold onto the rope and then they take it fall back and then push him over somebody's back. it. I just said like, tuck your chin, you know, drive your, drive your hips up to the ceiling and you

want to land in your upper shoulder area. And he went, boom, and did it almost perfectly. And then I told him, you know, to get up the certain way we'd get up to our right. And he got up the wrong way. And I didn't even have to say anything. He remembered halfway through and then he like reversed himself back down and then got up the right way. And I feel like that happens all the time. He's already kind of having matches with a couple of our guys he's going to be great I think he just needs to tap

into his verbal skills and the thing is he's super charismatic and he can't talk he really can it's just getting him to sort of take it to 10

because he's just a chill guy he's kind of relaxed not stressed about anything I mean, I know it's really early on, but whose wrestling style would you say his mimics or looks like? I mean, I would say the closest is Kurt because he's just got that natural wrestling ability that you can see the way that he moves. You know, he does headlock takeovers with the gable grip, which is, you know, a lot of people don't like that. A lot of people like this grip here. But I think when he does it, it just looks so natural.

there's some elements of like chain wrestling where i don't even i haven't even told him he just he does stuff that works and uh i really i think he's going to be great i can't wait to see him make his debut and i'm hoping it sooner rather than later but with that said i hope that when it does happen like that it's done the right way definitely yeah and i hope that they don't try to you know, have him fill those shoots. Like, I hope they let him be the first Gable Steveson, not the next Kurt Angle, you know, about the next Brock Lesnar. Boy, he's got a great teacher. I think that's pretty helpful. Thank you.

Look, Ken, I've really enjoyed this. I'm so glad we had like a full, like, hour to be able to, like, chat and hang out because the other interviews that we've done before have been, like, really short. And I'm glad we're able to, like, chat about everything here. So I super appreciate you taking the time to do this. I just want to say, because I told this to you before when we weren't recording, but I really appreciate what you're doing. I love your content. I think it's awesome.

I think you legitimize. You're not just somebody sniffing for dirt. You're a genuine reporter, and you legitimize this business that I love, and I appreciate everything that you do. So, and I saw congratulations on the 100,000 subscribers to your YouTube channel. I hope you get a million. Thank you. That's on my second channel.

So I'm hoping that both channels can hit a million. But thank you so much for the kind words. And like, you've always been so kind to me. So I really appreciate that. And I end every conversation with the same question because I really believe in gratitude. I wake up every morning. I say out loud three things that I'm grateful for. So, Ken, for you, what are three things in your life?

that you're grateful for? I'm grateful for a partner that I have who supports me and everything that I do. I'm grateful for two awesome kids. And that I'm able to have this. I had these experiences in my life and I'm able to pass them on to other people. You know, seeing my kids do the things that I did, that I was excited for is more exciting than it was when I did it almost. So.

Do we have some future WWE champions in your kids? I think so. You know, like we already have a fairly good track record with some of our students. We've got six, six of our students already. They're working for WWE or AEW. You know, Darius Martin, Dante Martin, they were both graduates from the Academy. Tiffany Stratton, who's kind of, tearing it up in NXT Von Wagner, Cal Bloom, he trained with us,

Julia Hart from AEW. And there was another guy that came, he just did it like a WWE trial. He was an athlete. His name was Randy. I can't remember what they're doing with him. He's at NXT 2.0. And I think that we have some others that are, like, those people are doing fantastic, but there's a guy.

that we have that's doing a try out in just two weeks, I believe. And I think he's going to take the world by storm policy. What's his name? So we can say, I knew him when? His name is Rampage Santana. And I think that he has all the tools, every single tool necessary, to be successful in the business. He can talk. He can wrestle.

He's got charisma. He's young. He's 22 years old. So. What about in your household? Do you have future WWE champions in your household? Neither of the kids are really into wrestling. My daughter.

You're like, thank God. Kind of, you know, yes, yes and no. If they ever come to me and say, and they both have, but I think it was just like they were trying to make dad feel good. Like, Dad, we want you to, I want you to train me how to wrestle, but they're eight,

and they don't watch wrestling at all. our daughter started playing somebody brought in WW2K 22 to the school and she was playing it on the on the PlayStation there and she really liked it she liked playing as Ray Mysterio

but I don't know if any if it's either one of them I would say probably our daughter that's going to be the she's like a little daredevil that's quite if they if it's something they truly want to do I hope I'll be there to, you know, hold their hand and guide them.

If they want to do something completely different, that's, it's up to them, you know. It's something I'm not going to push on them for sure. Ken, thank you again. So good to catch up with you. And I look forward to our paths crossing in person again soon. Yes, thank you. Are you not at, you're not at the Comic-Con this weekend? I'm going to be at Starcast next.

weekend. Will I see you there? No. Where's that? Is that? Nashville for like SummerSlam. San Diego Comic-Con is going on right now, right? Yeah, it starts tomorrow, I think, yeah. Oh, okay. Do you go out to those? I should. I live an hour and a half away. Now that I've said this out loud,

everyone's going to be like, what do you mean? You don't go. Never? You've never been to one? I've never been. You're right. I should make this happen now. You should. You should go. meet up with Mike Kingston. I know Mike Kingston. Okay. Is Mike bringing you in?

Mike has brought me in there a few times. I'm not at this one, but it's definitely something you need to do. You need to experience it. I should go, especially since it's drivable. Yeah. And the mixture of wrestling and comic looks and movies and video games is just,

I mean, every time I leave one of those, I go, probably shouldn't have spent so much money on memorabilia. Yeah. Yeah. I don't even collect a lot of like autographs or memorabilia unless it's like something that means like a ton to me. Actually, I'll show you one because it's sitting right here.

I'm so proud of this one. Back to the Future is my favorite movie of all time. And I got a license plate signed by Christopher Lloyd and Michael J. Fox. That's incredible. And I was thinking to myself, like I had the opportunity to get this. And I was like, unfortunately, they're both not going to be around at some point in time. Hopefully that's no time soon. But while we still have the chance, you know, now I've got to find a great place to hang this.

Maybe I'll hang it behind me here somewhere. That's awesome. That's your favorite movie? Thank you. Yeah, favorite movie all time. And without getting too into the weeds on this, I just love the concept of the movie, how it's about decisions. Actually, we talked about that quite a bit during this conversation. It's about like how if this thing doesn't happen, then that thing doesn't happen.

If you turn left here instead of turning right, then this thing in your life doesn't happen. Like if Marty's dad wasn't a peeping Tom and then fell into the road and then got hit, none of this would have happened. And I find that idea, that concept is so fascinating. That butterfly effect, right? That's it. Yeah. And then the reason that we're sitting here right now doing the things we're doing is because of

all of the things that happened in our life before. And that idea fascinates me. Because Jim Cornett paintbrushed Santino Morel. And thank you again. Yep, thank you. Thanks, brother. Appreciate you, man. That was great.

I love that. And I hope that you did as well. He said some awfully kind words there about me at the end, and I super appreciate that. Please share this episode with a friend. Also, take a screenshot. Let us know what's do now. you the most and tag us so we can share it as well. He's at Mr. Ken Anderson. Actually, I guess I should

be saying this. Mr. Ken Anderson. Anderson. And I'm at, I'll just say it normally. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And the Dalai Lama said it best. And it's so applicable to this whole conversation. Remember that sometimes not getting what you want is a wonderful stroke of luck. Be great and be grateful. We'll see you tomorrow for another one here on Insight. Jim Rome takes on sports. Why?

Because I have a job to do with rapid fire takes. So I don't want to hear from you lava pigs on this notion today. No idea what you're talking about. You're complaining more than you like to breathe air. It's like you get up in the morning only to complain and cry and moan on social media about things that you don't even understand. He's the spitfire of sports smack. Take advantage of it, but get up in here.

The Jim Rome Show podcast. What's your beef? Follow and listen on your favorite platform. You've been warned.