Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Dolph Ziggler Is SO Underrated, The Best MITB Cash-In, Spirit Squad, Becoming NXT Champion, Stand Up Comedy

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Nic Nemeth (@HeelZiggler) is a professional wrestler better known as Dolph Ziggler in WWE. He joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about being called "underrated" his whole WWE career, his debut match against Batista, the emotions he felt when he cashed in the Money In The Bank briefcase on Alberto Del Rio, his love for standup comedy, his brother Ryan Nemeth crushing it in AEW as the Hollywood Hunk, becoming NXT Champion, why he ended up becoming the most successful Spirit Squad member and more! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bleas! Oh, yeah, my friends. Welcome back to another audio adventure on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. So good to have you with us. And this one is long overdue. It has been far too long since we did an interview with Dolph Ziegler.

Almost four years, to be exact. July of 2019 was the last one that we did together. And if you've been a longtime subscriber to my YouTube channel, you know that that is very out of the norm. There was a point in time when we were doing two or three or sometimes even four interviews together in a year. But this one here marks our 16th interview together. The first one dating back to one of the first videos I ever uploaded on my YouTube channel.

It dates back to 2011, WrestleMania 27. Wow. Can you believe that? If you enjoy this episode, please take a screenshot and share it on social media and tag us so we can share it out as well. He is at Heel Ziegler. I'm at Chris Van Vleet and there's just so much to cover here. Not just because it's been four years since our last interview, but because of the amazing almost 20 year long career that Dolph Ziegler has had. And you saw the title of this episode and I will stand behind that.

He is one of the most underrated, if not the most underrated superstars in WWE history. So there's a lot to cover here. Let's dive into it. It's me and Dolv Ziegler on Insight. So this is our 16th interview together. Wow. We died Rick Flair for all time. That's right.

I feel like we got to beat Rick Flair. This started actually. It's funny that, you know, this is WrestleMania weekend. Our first interview was WrestleMania. 27 in Atlanta. At like Russell Many Access, I came up with, remember those like old flip cameras? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we did our first interview on that.

One of the first interviews I ever uploaded on the channel. That's really funny. This is so full circle. I wonder how much I swore. I don't think you swore at all. Well, we'll make up for you. I think we talked about like, hey, I feel like I ran into you at the barley house. You're like, that sounds about right?

Yeah, that sounds right. But there was a point in time when you were so kind. We were doing like an interview every like two or three months. months. You know, you know, old Hollywood trick. Always leave them wanting more, except for me. So then, oh, you know, you do it for a while. I was just like, oh, it's fun. It's cool. And some things happened. And it's like, makes sense. Like, oh, something else happened in my career or life. And we got a chance to bump into each other that works. But then after a while, you got to keep yourself out of the papers for a little bit.

Right. Lay low. And then you show back up. And I'm like, oh, there he is. I'm not sick of him. Didn't help. Yeah. I finally, finally got into a groove comedy show-wise. And I had done, Saratiana and I had done like eight of them in two months, which is, I usually did that in a year. And I was like getting into a groove. I was no notes, riffing on crowd, doing it. I was like, this is great. And we did, I want to say Virginia Beach or something. And then Mick goes, I would love to have you on any of these 30 shows, all of them if you could do it.

But whatever ones you're free for. I was like, I can get on 11 of these. And I was like, wow, finally get into a groove. And then the world shut down. And then I stopped. And it's heartbreaking. How many similarities are there, do you think, between comedy and pro-russ? So many.

There's, it's every time I talk with somebody, whether it's a comic or not, we have the same grievances, the same complaints. We all fly into a city. We don't know anybody. I'll bounce around to four different cities, 300 miles away. They'll do four shows in the same town and then go do, and it's the same process. There's no offseason. You go whenever you go.

And I was explaining this to someone else. I go, the first time I ever did. did an open mic, which is Nick with a black hat in the back room, Silver Lake coffee shop. And it was just an open mic. And so everyone's just on their phone. They're not even listening to you. They're just waiting to go and going over their stuff. But there's a handful of people that were like getting coffee and sat down to like listen.

I'm so nervous. My friend Lauren Greenberg, I wrote like a five-minute Chipotle story or something. And I'd gone over it for like nonstop and just tightening it down for a week or two. and then that day like 12 hours straight just getting in switching words and try not to just memorize it but have this little story. Yeah.

And I'm freaking out. I get to this little coffee shop. It's in the back room. It's like smaller than this area. It's so funny. But they go, Sean O'Connor, Sean O'Conn's on Twitter. He was like, he's a wrestling fan

and we just made jokes and he was like, hey man, I can get you on the show. I was like, whoa, what? And he goes, well, since you don't really belong on this show and you don't know what you're doing, well, it's all open mic guys. a couple of pros, but we got Andy Kindler going up, and everyone's doing like five minutes,

and they don't know, you know, bombing and whatever he goes, but he's going to crush for 25 minutes because he's a killer. Sure. And he's been around for 45 years doing stuff. And he goes, so we're going to put you after him because that's for, you know, we need to have a better in between. You're like, okay, all right, I get it. I don't deserve to be here.

And they go, he's going to do a set, and he's whenever, and it says 25, but he'll just go. And when he's done, he's done. So he does about 25 and he walks off. I'm shaking. I go up and I'm grabbing the mic I'm like don't drop this I'm so scared I don't know why

no one's even paying attention it's just so nerve wracking and I say this first sentence and there's it's kind of like a little just like I don't even remember what it was but it's supposed to be a little joke and I just pause and it feels like two minutes goes by

but it's one one thousand and two people are like on their phones are like oh all right I'm like I look to the left Andy Kindler who I thought left is laughing He goes,

I'm like, what? Okay. And then I totally forget the other three and a half minutes that I have. I'm like, I get back into it. I rush through it. I think I do it in like two and a half minutes. Like I just run through it.

I don't pause. I'm not even know what I'm doing. I'm like, I'm so scared. Once it's over, I got like two more chuckles from people not paying attention. I go, I'm scared to death.

I can't wait to do this again. This feels so great. Yeah. And then their locker room is just like our locker room. I come to the back. Andy Kindler is like the veteran. He's sitting and everyone's standing around him. asking him questions and he's given pointers and they're bitching just like we are like this guy this

comic doesn't deserve this push he's getting the show and he's only shows and like we should have it I go you guys are exactly like us it's mind boggling and he's telling him to settle down and don't worry if you know if you're good you'll get it it's identical in so many ways and it's like it's also getting the reps in being comfortable talking all those things like that you just take for granted but the more you do them the better you get do you feel like you're you feel like you you're a comic now? Or do you feel like, you feel like you're a pro wrestler

who does some comedy? Yeah, and I think I have so much respect for it because I'm such a fan that I don't want to be like, yeah, I'm a comic. I say that on social media, just to make wrestling fans mad. And it's funny. But in real life,

you need something along the lines of like three, four, five thousand reps. And then you figure out what your voice is and what you're really doing. Because for the longest time, I'm like, I write this joke. I'm like, oh, that's like, I think I just stole a juzzle neck joke.

subconsciously and then you write some stuff down like, oh, David Spade just did a bit like this. I'm like, ah, so you've got to figure out what your voice is and make sure you're not stealing people's stuff and you're just constantly grinding down. And it's just, it's, I'm not a comic. You need 5,000 reps. I'm at like 60 or 50.

Come on, no. Maybe way less. It seems like I've done a bunch of shows, but I've just done a couple of shows a year for eight years. You know what I mean? So I think it's like, I'm at like 50-ish. Why don't you ever like duck in to an open mic? So I do.

Okay, that's more reps. Yeah, yeah. But again, this, all before COVID, I had a pretty crazy schedule. And there's a Chinese restaurant near my house and I could sneak in there. And man, Nick with a black hat on, the stuff that got laughs in front of the wrestling fans, you get there and they're like, we don't know who you are. Make us laugh. Because sometimes you get spoiled. Yeah.

And you get the Jerry Seinfeld thing. So he walks out on stage and you're already like, Yes, it's Jerry. And it's like, I get that at wrestling show. So I know I'm not learning anything and I'm not taking like, ooh, that stays in. This is a good one. But I wheezel a couple of things in there to see if they are on board either way. And then when you do those open mics, Nick with a black hat, no one knows who you are,

then you see what works and what doesn't. That's where you learn. That's where you go right backstop. What a shirt you've got on here. I don't care for it, one bit. Putting over your brother. It's very kind. It's the homie with hunk.

Or are you the Hollywood hunk? Florida. So I guess we could, yeah, another thing. Another thing he's stolen from me. Great. I rewatched your debut recently. You were not from Hollywood, Florida. Where was I from?

You were from Hollywood, California. Oh, I think Lillian just messed up. Oh, really? I'm pretty sure she was just like, Hollywood. Okay, got it. But it was I always thought that was fun because I think I want to say it was AWA days, those guys with the sat and jackets were already in the ring, like just there to kind of get.

beat around, you know, kind of like me for the last 19 years. Just kidding. I get entrances. No, I'm joking. But like those guys are just like, hey, it's Bob Star. And he's there to get wrecked by Mr. Perfect before he's Mr. Perfect. And he's just like, from Hollywood, Florida. I go, Hollywood, Florida, that's so like, Florida's great. Hollywood's great.

What a nice, funny hometown. And Timmy Baltimore, who was at OVW, I think he was like, you should do this. I'm like, I love it. I'm in. So I stuck with it. And a couple, once in a while, it would get messed up. And then there's even times where Ms. and myself had the Battle of Cleveland. And he goes from Cleveland, Ohio, the Ms. and from Hollywood, Florida.

And I'm like, we couldn't just get it right today. But even he, like, gave up on Cleveland. He's now residing in Los Angeles. But again, I think it was a bit of a mistake was made. But that's funny. But, yeah, Hollywood, Florida is great. What's the debut? Which one?

Against Batista. So a lot of people think that's a debut. that's when I come back because I don't I well I'm not counting Spirit Scott's no no no I want to say I wrestle our truth as Dolph Ziegler I shake a bunch of hands yeah you tell them your name for the longest time yes and then I think I have like a double count out or roll in and beat truth and then I'm not on TV for a month month and a half and then I come back and it's against Batis and I go oh this is my last day at work what do you mean If you're a new young guy, you don't know what's going on. I'm not a legacy. I don't have friends in the meeting. And you're like, man, I don't know what I'm doing. They gave me this weird name that I've tried to fight him on.

And my debut was a countout win against Our Truth, who is beloved, especially by me. But I go, if you're debuting and you're fighting Triple H and winning, they got plans for you. When you're debuting against Art Truth who wasn't doing anything on TV at the time and you're barely scraping by. and then you go away for a month and then they go, it's you and Batista and it's one SEG and you go,

okay, I got it. Luckily for me, Batista is not just a sweetheart. He's great and wanted to have a good match. I'm like, oh, hell yeah. So I just saw that and I go, oh, this is it. And instead, we have a really fun match

and they're like, you never know. Like some established guys, and might just be like, here's what we're doing. And what do you think? And you're like, oh, you give some pointers.

But he was like, it'd be cool if we did this. I'm like, what about this? And I go, this is great. So it ends up being, I'm making this up, maybe it was two sex, but it's like eight or ten minutes. And it's kind of a good match,

but he's going on to a pay-per-view, like world title match. So he definitively beats me. Totally get that. But I go, oh, I don't have to like check the want ads next Monday. Like I go, okay, I'm still here. And then I come back and I feel like it was very positive with everybody. I go, okay, they just, he needed a match.

And I was back. I go, okay, great. I feel a little bit better now. And now you're. And now you're. still here. And this is what's interesting is because everybody in the Spirit Squad was wildly athletic and very talented. Yeah. Why was it, what was different about you that made you have the longevity that you're having? I mean, I love, like if we're joking around, like, oh, I'm somehow

built to do this, meant to do this, love comedy, love theater, love acting, love sports, fighting, athleticism, all these things, and it just perfectly works out for me. But also that group was for Kenny. And it hurt, but it was like, I don't know how to do anything. I'm six months, eight months in. I go, I don't know what to do. I love being in this group because Kenny's really good. And it's like 19.

It's so funny. He's teaching me stuff that you wouldn't learn behind the scenes for 10 years. And I go, man, this guy's way ahead. He's got it figured out. But then you get to a point where it's like, you're six months into the spirits, And it's like, everybody can get pinned except for Kenny. And you're like, I got to get pinned again. And we're kind of getting beat up.

And then it's a bummer. But those guys embraced it, loved it. I loved. We had my mask probably a little bit off. I want to say it's right around 12 months, like exactly, like a one year run. Yeah. And we had tons of ups and downs. But man, we frigging Rick Flair, Dusty Roads.

Every weekend for five months, a different version of DX on a live event. match to where you can do 20, 30 minutes. And so say I'm coming from six months of training and even me going in early and off days and coming out late, I got 20 years of experience in five months from some of the greatest of all time. It was Sean, Hunter, and Flair, and they rotated like two of the three each weekend. Wow. And it was the coolest thing in the world.

Like whether we were dorks and losers booted out of the building, like almost like how they boot Vicki Guerrero, just because they hated us. Yeah. And then they have two of the greatest of all time still wrestling in tags. And we're having a, like, I'm scared to death. And I'm like, I don't want to like mess up and like hurt Sean Michaels why I'm doing a neck breaker or something. But I'm scared to death, but we're doing great. And we're listening to what they say.

And we get to a point where we're like comfortable with them. But I got so much training from those three guys in a couple of months that it was all of us, not just me. but I don't know there's a school in the world. You can go to Sean Michael's wrestling school and have him teach you. Yeah. But it's not Sean Michael's Triple H and Rick Flair live in front of a crowd.

So I don't know what better training anybody could have. And I was just very lucky. And Nikki's still here. But that's what's so amazing. Like your career is so amazing. Like the longevity that you've had, especially with so many of your peers not being able to be around. Yeah.

And there's something, crazy about like, I think I was just talking to my brother today. I go, there's two or three instances where I was unable to compete on television. Once for two weeks for two TVs and one other time for two weeks for two TVs in 19 years. That makes, I go, I could be missing something. And maybe I go, I had some injury that I don't remember because it was so long ago. But I remember. And that was the days of like Kofi, Shamed.

Miss, myself, working every Raw, every Smackdown, every live event, doing the PR, doing the PR tours. And I go, I don't know how I don't get hurt. I don't know how I can still go. I feel like at some point I'm going to have to get some surgeries. Sure, because it's 19 years. I don't know anyone in any sport, in any company of anything whatsoever that has done this Cal Ripkin style 19 years.

Now, sometimes I'm not on TV, sometimes I'm not kind of picture, but I'm sitting backstage with my gear on. What about Ms? No, he used to leave for movies. He leaves to film his shows. Yeah, yeah, okay. He goes away, so I don't have that. I went away to do a movie once. It was supposed to be eight weeks.

We did it in four. That's how good you are. Well, yeah, sure. We did it in four. I'm sure it was because I was so good not to save money. But we did it in four, and they switched. There's like a drop-off seed to like pay ransom to get a child back. It was supposed to be at an airport.

The boss rewrites the movie to have the drop. He had a WWE live event. They book a WW live event two weeks out. Just like, hey, here's the show. Put me on the show. So even in those four weeks where I worked nonstop, I wrestled a live event. So when Miz goes away for five or six weeks,

and he's hanging out and showing like, I'm on the set, and he's sipping cappuccino, whatever. That wasn't this. They booked the live event to film your movie. Invented it and switched the movie so we can have the drop of the WWE. live event and I was like, cool, we can have this live event? Can you not post it? And then they made me do like a video. I'm like, here I am.

I go, I wanted, because I wanted them to forget about me because they, in 19 years, unless I threatened to quit, I can't go home for a couple of months and be out of the eye. So not being injured, I think has hurt me in ways you don't get this big return or you don't have that like Triple H at Madison Square Garden where I used to watch that clip on his DVD before I went to the gym because it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen in my life. And it's just that music hits and I always, yeah, because. And he was so shredded. So Jack.

So great. But you go, I'll never have that unless I go away. And when I do go away, it's never for long enough or they, so it helps and hurts, but also, I made millions of dollars and it's in the bag. So I'm going to be all right. The one word that comes up so often with you is underrated. Ah, dang it. Overrated?

Who's doing the rating? What's the rating? If it's video game, underrated. Yes. I think it's like locals, me, and then they do like some people that don't work there anymore. It's so funny. One year, I think like a 71 or something, I go, I thought they all started in 75. I'm like, come on, man.

But I think there's been, I feel like there's so many start-stop opportunities with you. Yeah, that happens to everybody, though. And, you know, you have held so many. championships, you know, World Heavyweight Champion, but I feel like there was so many chances where you could have been the WWE champion. I feel, so this will,

I don't know, maybe it'll sound not bitter, whatever. Well, the rest of the interview is bitter. We'll take a little break, but it's, I feel, I was never in their conversation to be their guy. I understand that. But I go, every day I can try and whittle them down, and maybe in five years,

they'll go, hey, we got to let this guy go. Or hey, in five years, this guy's ready. I know we don't. don't, he's not our top guy. But when this guy has knee surgery, he can slide right in there. And I go, that'll be my chance. So just always be ready for that. And that happened a couple of times.

I got put into, I just thought it was, I got put into a world title match against Seamus. Man, I want to say it's like northeast somewhere. A long time ago, I'm basically wrestling on superstars or getting beat by somebody in a couple minutes. Seamus is World Heavyweight Champion and crushing everybody. And I don't really talk on the show, anything. I get, who is it, Del Rio or Collie?

Somebody gets taken out. And they go, you're going to wrestle him in. We get one week build. And it's like, I don't even do anything cool. It's just like, I'll see you. I don't know. So I go, this might be really bad. No one might care.

I don't know. If you check the footage, 19,000 people are chanting my name against the established World Heavyweight Champion. I'm a bad guy who doesn't talk. and loses every single match. And I go, whoa, there's a clip of Lawler. He goes, do you hear these fans saying, let's go Seamus? And I go, is that what they're saying?

But it was, and it was like a fun match. Seamus is fun, and we do crazy stuff anyway. So it's like, that was really cool. But I was nervous that they wouldn't give one damn because I don't, I mean, I deserve to be there. But on a television show, this character did not deserve the fighting for the title. Everybody knows how good you are, though. Sure. Everybody.

But story was. it didn't make sense. So I was very nervous. I go, man, they're going to hate me. But let's steal the show. We kicked off the show. Let's tear it down. Make them follow us.

I go, and then hopefully maybe I won't get moving on the building. I don't know. But it was one of the hottest crowds other than like working Cina in New York or something. But like it was amazing. And we had fun and we beat the hell out of each other. And we didn't steal the show,

but we kicked some ass and kicked it off right. And I go, and I go, man, maybe this will be the thing. Yeah. And the next Monday. right back to business as usual. So that happens sometimes. I try and fight it, but I can only do so much.

I fight it, screaming and yelling every single Monday, just so you know. You had the best money in the bank cash in of all time. That is, there's no argument there. A bunch of people make other arguments. No, they're wrong.

I don't watch. I don't even remember. I'm just kidding. I know that one. I was there. But here's why mine's different than if you want to say Sest at WrestleMania or like the,

first ever won or whatever. I mean, the first ever one was pretty cool. I didn't understand the idea. It's edge, right? Yeah. And Vince is there and like, it's a,

whoa, you know. But here's why mine is better because of what I just said. I lost every single match. Vicky talked for me. I got Vicki. And then we go on to AJ and Big E.

So I now have a group of three and I'm losing every single match, except for the ladder. which was so fun. There's a great gif of Tenzai throwing me into the chairs and I fly around in my head. I went and I win that. I go, how are we going to build on this?

Because I can't just lose 900 matches in a row, win this one and then lose 900 in a row again. And the boss goes, now you're going to lose even more. And not in a devious way. He goes, because you have this briefcase. And when that contract gets cash in, everything is a race. And I go, okay, that's a fair point.

And you held on to that briefcase for so long. Yeah, we teased it so much. I think people stopped. It was several months of liking it, but then sometimes we were just doing every Smackdown, and I'm like, guys, come on. But then it was the raw after WrestleMania, and I remember watching this at my desk at work in Cleveland.

And I remember, like, Del Rio was down in the corner, and the camera was staying on him a little longer than usual. And my TV was on mute because I was actually working. And I went, Gross. Wait a second. And I turn the volume up. Like, this is about to happen.

And sure enough, your music hits and the crowd goes bonkers. I have never witnessed even watching Attitude Era Stone Cold come out on TV. I'm sure it was louder. But me witnessing that in person and feeling like the prickles of my body, not me getting goosebumps. This rush of noise hitting my body, I was like, man, again, I go, I hope they get into this. Again, a good guy is injured and he's laying on the mat.

And a bad guy who loses all the time is going to come down and become world champion maybe and I'm like, are they going to buy it? I don't know. But I go, I was really proud. I go, early in the day, they're like, he's hurt, you come down, you hit him with the briefcase. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, one, two, three, new champ.

He's going to lose. I go, this is me. I go, I almost get the big prize for nine years in a row, let's make them feel like Dolph is getting Dolphed one more time. So I go, I had, I wanted like, I almost orchestrated it exactly how I wanted.

I wanted one more little thing. But I go, let's have that. I'll beat him up. I'll hit him with the thing. I'll stomp on his angle. Hit a famous search for a corpse. One, two, kickout. And you can just see the crowd go,

they're doing it again. They got it. They teased us. We thought he was going to be the guy. And they rubbed. it in our face. Yeah. And then we get one more little false finish way.

I go, oh, have him just come kick me in the head. Kicks me in the head. I go down and they're like, no, and he's rolling me over. I'm like,

it was one of the most beautiful Shakespearean three-minute movies I could ever create other than when we gave it back with him just kicking me in the head 500 times and like putting me out. Yeah. That was really, we did like a double turn.

Yeah. That was really fun. But we do that. We get one more. And then he gives me that kick. I kick out. I go for something. And he puts on his finisher.

The arm bar. Arm bar. Yeah, yeah. So I'm locked in. I'm scrambling around. I wanted to scramble for like another minute. But I go, let's not push it. They've gone up and down three times in 90 seconds, like more than you could ever

imagine. And I'm like, going to tap, going to tap. And then again, storytelling, he has a hurt ankle. Yeah. I go back to that ankle. Yeah. And Cole's like, the injury. Yeah.

you sometimes forget. And in that moment, you don't always need that story, but I wanted the story. Yeah. Here it comes. He's got it. No,

they're screwing him. Oh my God, they're going to make him tap out. He's going to win. And as I'm selling up, and he's coming up with his back to me, everybody starts to realize, oh my God,

it's going to happen. But then I'd like to have, think that like 10 or 20% on that zigzag one, two, they're like, three. Okay, okay, okay. Like, you never know.

Like, and if I had my wife, I went ahead and pick out of that zigzag. And I would have went with something else. Just for one. I'll never have that WrestleMania, hot frowd, hot moment, right place, right time. The guy that they wanted to be the guy, whether the office wanted it or not, that I just, I was so spoiled. It's like three and a half minutes and I am so proud of it.

Del Rio was great in it too and great in that double turn. But that three and a half minutes is so beautiful for the business that I'm very proud that I was a part of it. You mentioned it there, but you're a lot of it. your selling is next level. Agreed. Where did that come from? At first, it was I wanted to stand out.

And I love that you agreed with me. I mean, of course. My high school graduate, I'm not an idiot. Well, equivalent. I'm training. How dare you do that to Kent State University? I love Ken State. Can't read.

I love them. I love them. And we, I'm training and learning. and everybody at the time, Randy Orden is awesome, but this is 12 years ago, 15 years ago, whatever it is. And he is not the guy, but you can tell he's about to be.

And I want to say it's maybe like, what's it, him, Flair, Evolution. I think it's that. And he's like the coolest dude in the world, black trunks, doesn't say a word, doesn't move his face, he's a psycho. So everybody slowly, over a couple months in Ohio Valley Wrestling,

goes to black trunks, short black hair, no selling. Not that Randy was no selling, because he's, it pisses me off how good he is at every aspect of our business. And when I think I have a different way of doing something, he does it three times as different. And it's beautiful.

And it makes me so mad. But everyone's going that way and like this and just flexing, like trying to be that rattlesnake that, or what a cobra, whatever the hell is, some kind of snake, whatever. and they're all being Stone Cold's the Rattle snake Yeah What is some kind of snake?

I don't know I go Screw this I have Rip Rogers Viper damn it A lot of snakes Yeah there's too many And I'm learning from Rip Rogers

To where we're We're just about to go to reality era So it's starting with like John Cena Randy Orton real names These guys are all business Whatever and I'm getting trained to do,

we had just been trained to do like, someone gets an armory or you do all four sides of an arena, like you're at an independent wrestling show with no television and no camera cuts. You've got to let everybody know, I'm learning basics. And I was, I go, man, nobody is selling enough. And that was my 16 years ago.

We all don't sell enough now, including myself. But I go, no one is doing this. I am going to find a way. I go, I'm going pink trunks, white hair. I'm going to stand out. And I go, I want to do things to where when someone hits me with not everything, but a finish or a secondary finish, it looks like I'm hurt for real. I want my boss who booked me to do exactly step for step to come back. Go, are you okay?

I'm like, I guess I'm really good at my job, bro. But it happened so much. They're like, are you okay? I'm like, the fans are supposed to believe that I'm hurt. You told me to do this. Like, you should know. But it was like, I go, I'm really good at this. And the difference is if you watch a bunch of wrestling,

you can see wrestling bumps and wrestling ways. And sometimes there's some different things there from the past. But if you watch movies and you see some guy get his neck snapped and body crumbles or you watch MMA and a guy takes a knee to a face and his hands drop and he's in rigor and all these different items, I try to do every little piece of that. But also you have to commit. It's almost like, you like, oh, here comes, Stan Punk's finish. He hits you in the face and you fall backwards

or he fall aside, whatever, and I go, how can I make it look like I'm getting knocked out an MMA by a knee? And I started doing that. And then I, being such like a Mr. Perfect band, was doing it too much. So a clothesline, I can't go inside out, but a clothesline was like, whoa!

But if I'm doing that for that, now the finish is the same as the guy, I think a guy did one minute in. So then you have to weasel your way out of it. Like, you take a hell of a clothesline, but you're okay. You take a hard buff. Okay, here comes a secondary finish from Sina.

I'm going to make it look like I'm knocked out cold, so they all jump at 2.9. And that, I think, made me stand out so much. But again, I think it, 10 years later down the line, when you have a bunch of money in the bank, they start going, oh, we love the way you take Seamus' brookick. They start booking it every Monday and every Friday. And then it becomes a problem for me personally.

Like, oh, they, I take it. It looks like a video game, but now I'm losing twice as much as I normally would be. And you're like, okay. How do I get out of this? What's something you do in the ring that doesn't look like it hurts, but actually does hurt a lot? Or maybe a move. It's funny. You get injuries on like the dumbest things, not the power bomb to the floor.

Give us one. I'm trying to think, I did. Oh, what did I wanted to do? I wanted to try something. I want to say maybe Daniel Bryan or somebody. I was taking the, like, Umaga, Sergeant Slaughter, like that top turnbuckle. Like, you get Stinger splashed in and you smack that metal. Yeah, yeah.

And I smacked that thing. And I was doing kind of good. I'm like, I wonder if I can go through the middle, smack it, and kind of spin sideways and fall out to the fort without forcing it and without making it look like I did that. Because everyone's, it was like three buckles on the show. And I just watched someone do it. I'm like, well, maybe we can do it if we make it sand out. And I did it. And I did it.

I smack the hell, and that's one of those things, smacking that and sliding through the middle, you're just smacking the hell out of your body into a metal. Yeah, yeah. It's not deadly, but it hurts. And usually there's like a big red part of your skin, like we're a blue or black, whatever. And I did it and went, boom,

and I did like this swivel right out to the floor, and both my knees fell down, and I felt something popping my knee, and I go, no, no, no, like, what are you doing? Why are you trying to make him look better? You should be wanting him. look good so you can kick his ass like oh god why did I do this and I was so and I was very nervous I'm like I'm got hurt trying to make someone look better than me that I should be beating I'm

like what the hell and the next week I came out with like I think Trent Beretta pointed it out I don't know how he even saw the next week I was walking fine I was just very scared and I'm totally fine everything's fine but I go I'm nervous to jump and drop kick because I have to like jump off this knee and I have this I used to have like volleyball sleeves I got two things and a big stone cold awesome the seat ballast like the gears and the buckles underneath it's really big and I was like so scared I was like almost like I couldn't jump I was nervous to jump and drop kick and luckily our time got caught and some crazy thing happened and I'm focused on this and I'm switching the match and I'm doing this different and I just threw it drop kick and I went okay we're back we're good we're

okay I was just so nervous I go I'm going to jump off and it's just going to go or something And that was that. What did winning the NXT championship mean to you during this most recent run? That was really cool. One, because I thought I was going there to do what I do, help a young guy out. But also they go, hey, you get a little more creative to just kind of do what you want talking wise. And I go, that's been a problem for me for 15 years. It's like, you have to say it like this.

And I go, what if I just do it? I'm like, no. You're like, ah, okay. So some people get leeway. Some people don't. Once in a while I do, but I wasn't getting it on important ones. And I was like, man, I really wish I could be more me, not the guy. But now you got an NXT.

So they go, I see. Like, you got a little leeway with what you want to do. And I was like, cool. Yeah. I'll be me. What I wish I would have been doing 15 years ago is like just saying and being me a jerk, not even turned up to just me right now, but I'm like, walked in there. And it was so fun because a lot of people didn't know I was doing it.

And I thought it was for like four weeks, work with Stein. Um, help him out and see if he's ready for the main roster. I go, okay, cool. I love that you're calling him Steiner. Or what? He should be Steiner. I know. Uh, I was saying, I don't watch on those.

Break, break it. So, don't make me name anybody's name. Chris. I have to look down and go, oh, yeah, hunk. I think that's your brother. Uh, I think he's my, I think I'm his younger cousin. I got to check out. I don't know.

People say that he looks like you, but not the reverse. I don't see it either way. Uh, not even on this. So I assume it's going to be a couple weeks of the kid, whatever, and then we get to like a cool one of their premium live event things. I'm like, oh, cool, that would be really fun. And three weeks in, I get there and they're like, yeah, you're not winning this match. We're doing something else.

And I'm like, three weeks of helping you guys out and you guys are screwing me. I'm like, screw this. I'm out of here. And they're like, no, no, no, wait, listen. At least let me tell you what you're doing. We're going to do it. We're going to do it a different way, have you win the title. I'm like, come on, man, why?

And they're like, no, no, no, I think it'd be good. I go, once they explain the story, you may go, oh, yeah, that helps it. Like, I steal a title away from, nobody pins him. I steal it away in a triple threat. And then we'll go to, I want to say it's standard deliverer, but WrestleMania weekend, whatever they, and we go to WrestleMania weekend, and maybe he wins it, maybe he doesn't. I go, oh, okay. And they go, Monday, the raw after WrestleMania does really great ratings.

There's always crazy fun stuff. They go, that's where we want him. I go, let's do it. They're like, maybe that Friday, maybe I'll go, let's do it Monday. I go, everyone thinks he's winning this title back. And I was a placeholder just to get to WrestleMania. Let's screw them all and get all the eyes on the kid on that Monday. And then everybody wins.

Like, this is great. Like, no one's going to see us come. We have this match. No one, like they weren't ready for. I was like, yep, sorry, Marks. I'm a champ. Screw you guys. I'm going to stay here forever.

I go, work one day a week in Florida and sit by the beach. Okay, sure. I have like a tan line around the belt around my belt. So we get to Monday and then we put it back on him and he goes back. And I feel like it really helps him. He's such a good kid that if I hated him, I would have done the exact same work. But I'm like happy for him because I like him and I don't like a lot of people. So I hope I helped him.

And when he does come up, who knows, maybe the rocker or WrestleMania, he shows up. I don't know. Yeah. But if that's the case, I hope it helps. So I'm not always a total dick or whatever. You're not at all. It's just a character you play. I don't know.

Where do you think Dolph Ziegler ends and Nick begins? I cannot. Nick wins a lot. Yeah? So if there's like a fight or an argument or a debate. In real life. Undefeated. Oh, wow.

Practically undefeated for 42 years. Is it because if you take the loss, that was Dolph. Yeah, yeah. Oh, sorry, brother. Dolph loves to lose. Dolph, tag in here and lose this argument. Like, yeah, yeah. No, I feel like it's, and I like that,

I don't know, there's almost some, an underdoggy-ish kind of thing to losing so much. But I want to say that, I wonder if I have, like, the most losses of any WWU superstar ever to be, and also not, also be like a relevant guy, kind of. You could, I don't know, someone's going to fact check this. Yeah, I have no. You might have the most losses of someone who,

who's been a world champion. Oh, I don't know, though, because it's hard to say. I know Kane, Big Show, and myself are always near each other and Randy. But Kane and Big Show had like a seven-year head start. Randy doesn't lose that much. Right. And he doesn't wrestle as much also, so that helps me out. Yeah.

He's gone a couple months. Yeah. So I go, I'm not going after, but I go, if you're going to say like I suck, like, cool, but everyone knows I don't. This will be great for your Hall of Fame speech. Yeah. which I will send in via facts. Oh, facts.

Wow. Come on. No, I'm just kidding. Obviously, a Hall of Fame. I will, the next contract negotiation, I will say you put me in the Hall of Fame this year right now while I'm active. Just like Ray Mysterio. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly like Ray demanded. I'm joking if anybody's unsure. Yeah, that was a joke. The most beloved guy in the freaking world. What is the thing that you're most proud of over the 19-year career? The money. Like, it's crazy. You know how much eggs are?

No. Ron Stroman was telling me earlier. He eats a lot of eggs. I don't, but it's through the, it was, I didn't understand it. I was trying to do the homework. I'm like, some birds got sick and there's some supply. I go, eggs used to be 99 cents. I'm not 100 years old.

I was like, oh, they were 229 at my grocery store. Now they're eight bucks. I'm like, what do we? Whatever. No, most proud of, I think it's this Cal Ripkin-esque thing. And also not being a total douche after 19 years of like, 90% losses. I go, I could, I feel like I have this thing that where even right now, I could open a show

against a local guy. I could be in the intermission match for the IC title and nobody would blink an eye. And I could be in the main event if someone got hurt tomorrow. And they go, he's not going to win. But man, this is going to be the hell. This is going to steal a show. And to be able to do that with so few days off in 19 years, I'm very proud. Now, people get hurt all the time. It's a crazy thing. I don't know how I haven't got hurt.

I will at some point. Hopefully it'll be not too big of a deal, some nice clean up some knees or neck or something. That's part of it. But timing for a bunch of different things hasn't worked out, but I'm very proud of my record. I don't, other than people hating my character or my voice or something, I don't know anyone who could genuinely pick out something that I don't do 10 out a 10 that is an aspect of the business. I don't. That's a damn fact. I don't. Seriously. What's the move that you love taking the most? You make everything. You make super kicks look amazing. I got to, so having a bunch of practice with Sean take four or five super kicks a week was great. That's sweet chin music by the way. Oh, right, right. My super kicks is the one that wins. So I passed a torch show. He can have it.

So I like that. I was, that's where I really got to try a lot of stuff to where. I was like, that's where I was trying those MMA finishes. Yeah, yeah. Take a super gig sometimes you like a cartoony fall backward into an ocean. Sometimes I just dropped to my knees and had my head go inside. And I was just watching finishes to fights and movie scenes. And that one where you get knocked out and your hands stay tightened up. Like, I've seen that happen in real life.

And I go, I tried it a couple times. So I think I got so good at, and he's so good that it looks like it kills you. And 99% of them, I don't think, touched my face. Wow. And I didn't have the crazy. long hair that you can kind of blend it into. It was short carecut. And I go, that part is crazy.

You got to get hit with a couple. Sure. But, like, it was so beautiful that I was trying to match the beauty with, like, falling down. So that's a good one because also it's completely controlled by me. Some guy I don't know from NXT that's a year. And then they go, hey, I pick you up and I hold you up here. And I throw you all into the ground. And you're like, oh, how long have you been training?

Like, maybe, let's say maybe. but was Sean or with a kick or like Kofi's kick, which I took 500 times in a row. That was another one where I was like, how can I do this differently? How can I make this seem more real? But I love that you control it. Once someone hits you with a hammer or a kick

or a punch or a headbutt or a knee, anything, I get to control how good it looks. So when someone else hits me with a power bomb, it's cool, but it's not as good as I can make it because I'm not doing it. Look, it's always so good to see you. We haven't done an interview in four years. That's crazy.

That's funny. It really is. Because we were doing it, yeah. We were doing one a month for a while. Basically, it was in Miami. It was at American Airlines Arena before a show. That was our last interview. Oh, okay.

But I end every interview now asking about gratitude because I wake up every day. I say I allow three things I'm grateful for. Awesome. I do it before I go to bed. What are three things that you are grateful for in your life? I like that I have my brother around to throw ideas around. with for 45 years, like jokes, wrestling stuff, writing a movie, writing a show, anything, having that and like being in a group chat with my family where I just constantly try and

make them bar for laugh or something. That's, I'm lucky because I kind of do my own thing a lot. I travel alone. I like to go to the gym by myself. I go out to dinner by myself. I like to do a lot of stuff by myself. Like I used to always go, oh, it's six days on the road. What are you going to do?

Go to Hawaii or something. You got five days up. Like, no, I'm going to sit in my backyard and I'm going to read and I just want to do my, and I don't want to hear a dog bark or a person who by, but that. And I mean, I, no matter how good I am, which I'm done talking about for me, I am the luckiest friggin person in the world. I was lucky family wise. I was lucky school wise. I happened to go, I happened to live 15 minutes away from one of the greatest wrestling institutions in the world in high school wrestling multiple time national champs while I was there. That led me, I on to like being such a focus determined. It's like, not military-esque, but you get your life right because that. So that worked out and that got me into wrestling. And just I'm the luckiest guy in the world for sure.

And a bunch of people are lucky, but I go, are you crazy? I haven't had a real job in 20 years. And before that I probably didn't. I live in a fantasy world. So I try and stay grounded as much as I can when I go, the greatest thing that I can do right now, because before wrestling,

I had to go, do I have enough money to fill up my gas tank? I got six bucks, which back then was like six gallons, but we'll get into that later. But it was, and now I don't ever forget it.

When I go to the gas, I do not forget it. When I just go, slide the card and I just let it run, and I go, don't forget this because a lot of people do.

I love that. Was that three things? I don't know. He's listed a bunch of things you're great before. Yeah, I think I said, yeah. But it was all like being lucky,

family, right place, right time. at the greatest life in the world. It's so dumb. Very lucky. And you just happen to be, you know, like you still look like you're a vampire. Like I don't know what's going on here.

I know I told you, I've had a lot of work done. That's a lie. That's a lie. It's all back here behind my hair. Uh-huh. Holder face. Bro, it's so good to see you.

Thank you so much. Yeah, I could have talked to you, man. I'm fun. Thank you. I hope it wasn't as bitter as all my other ones are. But like bitter funny. They're funny. Yeah.

Everybody knows you're funny. Well, I'm a full-time community. Did you know that? That's right. You are a comic. Ressel to pay the bills. Always so good to catch up with Dolf Ziegler. Long, long, overdue here.

So big thank you to him, Nick, Dolf, whatever you want to call him, for joining us in the studio in Hollywood. Big thank you to you for being with us as well on this one. If you enjoy it, please share it out. Post it on social media and tag us so we can share it as well.

He's at Heel Ziegler. I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And if you haven't, yet, check out some of his comedy on YouTube. The guy's just, it's unfair. It's unfair how talented he is at everything that he does, whether it's wrestling or comedy or whatever. It's unfair.

I'll leave you with this quote from Albert Einstein. Learn from yesterday. Live for today. Hope for tomorrow. The important thing is not to stop questioning. So good. Be great. Be grateful.

We will see. you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock?

I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley.

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