Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Donovan McNabb on life after football and what the NFL taught him about life

Episode Date: November 16, 2020

Donovan McNabb played 13 years in the NFL and was the first NFL quarterback ever to throw for more than 30 touchdowns and fewer than 10 interceptions in a season. He's best known for his time with the Philadelphia Eagles where he was a 6-time Pro Bowler, but he also played for the Washington Redskins and the Minnesota Vikings. We talk about how he started to make the transition to life after football after just a few seasons in the league. He's 43 years old now and we talk about the other quarterbacks in their 40s who are still playing; Tom Brady and Drew Brees. He also gets into the life lessons that football taught him that we can all apply to our lives, whether you're an athlete or not. I'm sure you will enjoy this insightful conversation as much as I did! Support the show by supporting our sponsors:BOSLEY- Get a free info kit and a $250 off gift card by texting CVV to 203-203 https://www.bosley.com/lp/chrisvanvliet/INDEED- Get a $75 credit to boost your job post by going to http://indeed.com/BlueWire BETONLINE- Get a new sign-up bonus by using the promo code BLUEWIRE at http://betonline.ag Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's a great question. Look at you, man. What's the powerful questions. This is the Chris Van Vleecho. Chris Van Vleecho. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Bens, Well, here we go. Welcome back again to the Chris Van Fleet Show. Or if it's your first time here, welcome, my friends. This is a fascinating conversation today, an insightful conversation with the NFL legend himself, Donovan McNabb. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this one. Tag us on social media so we can say hi and share this. I'm at Chris Van Fleet on Twitter, and Donovan is at Donovan J. McNabb. And if it is your first time here, make sure to click subscribe on Apple Podcasts or follow on Spotify so you don't miss out on any other conversations like this one.

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years in the NFL and was the first NFL quarterback ever to throw for more than 30 touchdowns and fewer than 10 interceptions in his season. He's of course best known for his time with the Philadelphia Eagles where he was a six-time pro bowler, but he also played for the Redskins and the Vikings. We talk a lot about how he made the transition to life after football, and he was already thinking about this decision just a few years into his career. He's 43 now. We talk about the other quarterbacks who are in their 40s and they're playing. Tom Brady and Drew Brees. He also gets into the life lessons that football taught him. And these are really lessons that we can all apply to our own lives, whether we're athletes or not. So here we go. Ladies and gentlemen, Donovan McNabb.

There we go. The legendary Donovan McNabb in the house. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. You know, I know football was so much a part of your life growing up playing in the NFL. I'm curious to know how much is football part of your life right now? Well, I've become a fan spectator. I'm an analyst and then obviously being a dad. My dad, my son plays flag football and I've coached flag football over the last couple years of currently coaching my daughter's flag football team. So football has been a part of my life for years and it just can't seem to ease its way out of my life. But that's the fun part about it because no matter in all sports,

I'm coaching football, coaching basketball, training quarterbacks. So whatever that I've learned over my 30 years or so of playing this game, I try to pass it on to others. You look like you could still get out on the field and take some snaps. How do you feel? Well, I feel great. I work out every morning. I try to pay attention to my nutrition as well as my conditioning.

Because it's very important, especially during these times of the pandemic, you have to make sure that, you know, you're staying in decent health. I try to monitor what it is that I eat to continue to live, hopefully, a normal life, sort of speak. And then you've got to take into account. I have four kids, so I want to make sure that I'm there for them as they're growing up and to continue to push them. through sports, through school, challenging them to be greater than I was. What did the first like 30 minutes of every day look like for you? What are your morning routines? Well, I'm usually up by 6 o'clock in the morning.

And, you know, that seems to be like an alarm clock in my head because I'm used to my kids leaving to go to school about 7.15, 7.30. So I want to make sure that they're up and ready and have taken care of everything they need to do in order to get going. And by then I'll shower, get myself prepared, head down to a gym that I have downstairs at my house now that the gyms are pretty much kind of up in the air with wearing masks and things of that nature. So get my workout on in the morning after that, shower, eat breakfast, and then head to training clients throughout the day. then at the evening, pretty much, it's all kids and my kids in their sports. So it's very busy for me, but that's, I would have it in the other way. You know, I think one of the biggest things when you talk about training clients is, sure, you know, it's great to train them physically, but I think what made

you so great was between the ears. What made you so great was your mental toughness? How were you able to instill that in your clients? Easily. You know, you stay on them. And it's easy for a lot of my clients to get down on themselves and start to question and second guess themselves due to a bad path, due to bad footwork, due to a bad read. But the thing that I try to instill in them is to have short-term memory, continue to have confidence in yourself and understand that the next throw or next read will be one of the best. And then you feed off of that. I think too many times in life we're quick to kind of shut things down when things don't go our way. Instead of taking on the challenge and being able to understand what it is that happened, understand what I can do

in order to change it, and then make changes. And while you making changes, you're gaining back confidence in yourself to be able to get the job done. What do you think is the biggest thing that football taught you about, like, real life? Well, it's taught me about work ethic. It's taught me about passion. It's taught, you know, taught me a lot about determination. And I've been a goal-oriented guy since I was little. I've always written my goals down or what I wanted to accomplish and how I was going to go about it. Now, we all know sometimes you get off course a little bit,

but when you look up and at your goals that are written down, it reminds you of the path that you need to take. And so I've been one, you know, since I was little. Even to this day, I have goals that I want to be able to accomplish. and while achieving those goals, learning more and more about yourself. And so that's something that I pass on to everyone, not just athletes, but just people in general, because, you know, if you just live your life just one day at a time, you miss out on so many opportunities.

And so that's the path that I tried to go. And while doing that, continue to express it to others to possibly help them out as well. Yeah, I always say vague goals get vague results. Right. But on the flip side of that, specific goals get specific. results. And what do you think it is about writing down those goals that helps to like, I don't know, maybe kick your body into gear and go, hey, we need to accomplish these things. Well, it holds you accountable. It holds you accountable because, you know, when you look up

at those goals and you have a tendency to fade away and something else pops up. But now that you recognize those particular goals, that's what reminds you. Okay, yes, that is right. I need to get back on course and be able to move forward and accomplish one of those goals. And once you start to get into a rhythm and a pattern where you're knocking down those goals and you feel like you've accomplished all that you've written down, now you rewrite goals. You rewrite more goals. And while you're trying to achieve those new goals, you make sure you stay on course of those that you've accomplished already and continue to make those as part of your stress to add to what

you're trying to do now. I love it. I love it. You know, your number five jersey meant so much to the city of Philadelphia. But I'm curious when you put that on, what did that number five mean to you? Well, I mean, to be honest, you know, it was a number. You know, when I put my helmet on, that's what I knew that I had to morph into to the guy that I always wanted to be. You know, when you put numbers on, you put jerseys on early on as a kid, you know,

you felt like you were the guy that you were wearing their number. And as I got older and I started to realize that for me, it was just, it was kind of a definition of who I was. It was a number that people recognized me as. And then that's what kind of, you know, people call me as. You know, they call me as five until this day. You know, no matter where I am, if I'm in a grocery store or if I'm at a concert or if I'm at a football game, if somebody called me five, not quick.

I know at least they know who I am or, you know, we've kind of had some type of affiliation with each other. But it's a number that I've passed down to my kids. So all my kids were at number five. And that's something that as a father, you get very excited about to see your kids out there repping the number and making it their own. Yeah. Do you remember the first time that you saw someone in the stands?

wearing your number five? Yeah, it was back in college. And, you know, when you're at that age, you know, you're kind of going through the motions a little bit and, you know, you're kind of grinding with your team and you get out there and play against some tough opponents and you have some success and then look up and see a little kid wearing your jersey

or you see an adult wearing your jersey. That's when it all started for me. That, you know, maybe some of the things that I am doing is starting to get some recognition. I need to put my foot on the gas a little bit and continue to be consistent with it. You know, when you talk about writing down those goals early on, was one of those goals I am going to get drafted, I'm going to play in the NFL? No, not necessarily.

Early on, I wanted to be an NBA play. So one of those goals was to continue to work hard, go out and get shots up. You know, we had a goal in our backyard. continue to work on different moves that you see Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson, Isaiah Thomas, and those guys doing. And just make sure, as I got in high school, make sure I'm in great shape, focus on my flexibility, and just go out and give my best every time. And so as I got older, obviously those goals changed.

And really be honest with you, my goals, as far as the NFL was concerned, really didn't happen to pretty much my sophomore year or junior year of college. And, you know, it was still to the point where NBA was still on my goal list because I played basketball at Syracuse. So I thought I was going to have a breakthrough there at Syracuse, which didn't happen. But it was still a lot of fun. And I took on the challenge of competing in both sports. And, you know, one of the always, you know. Oh, I mean, so you obviously had the breakthrough in football.

Where did that breakthrough happen? What did that breakthrough look like where you went, maybe this is my sport? Well, to be honest, I mean, that after my first two years of starting, there was conversation of me possibly coming out early into the draft and could possibly be the third or fourth quarterback taken at that time. And Brian Leif and Peyton Manning were the top two. And Dante and I were the ones that were kind of getting shuffled around if we were three or four.

So we took on a challenge and I remember talking to my family members and talking to friends of could this possibly be. I just wanted to go out and have a great year. We made it to the Fiesta Bowl at that particular time. So the challenge for me was

could this happen? So I put everything involved to just increase my work ethic and determination of preparation and decided to come back another season. And that challenge was something than I took on head on. It looked forward to the opportunity. But then the year that you, you know,

did make yourself eligible for the draft, like that draft was stacked with quarterbacks. It was. It was. And we all were somewhat different as well. So that kind of separated us a little bit at that particular time. You know, being on the East Coast,

you didn't really have a chance to see a lot of teams play in the SEC at that particular time. It wasn't on TV every single weekend. So I didn't get a chance to watch Tim Couch play consistently like that. I didn't get a chance to see a lot of Pac-12 games, so I didn't get a chance to see Kay McDon, also in Central Florida, Dante Coal Pepper, you know, played against Sean King at Tulane.

So the challenge of knowing who your competitors are weren't as what they are now. But, you know, again, it's not, you know, I made it so it wasn't just us competing against each other. it was for me to showcase my talents to scouts to give them an opportunity to evaluate me the right way and, you know, give me an opportunity to play. Did you have any indication or maybe hope that you might go number one overall that you might have ended up in Cleveland? There was a lot of talk. There was a lot of talk of it and there was a possibility of me being drafted. And that went on pretty much until about three, four days before the draft.

I know that there was conversation about Achille and Tim Cowell is competing against each other, but I was kind of that dark horse. I was the dark horse that up until about three, four days, I had a great chance of being number one. But it worked out well. I don't look back on it and kind of give you the if-and-s or buts. I enjoyed my career in Philadelphia, and, you know, it was what it was. It worked out really well for you. It didn't work out so well for Cleveland.

And then I say this because I spent many years in Cleveland, became a Browns fan. And I look at, you know, how, look how different it could have been if you were a Cleveland Brown that year. Well, it could have been different. But it also may have been better. I don't know. You know, we just never know.

And, you know, my teammate was drafted second round to the Cleveland Browns and Kevin Johnson, which we were going to take him as well. But we were three picks behind, I believe. But, you know, I just think for me, I mean, you know, have an opportunity to play in Philadelphia under Andy Reed. The success that we've had over a decade with the players that I play with, it's one I think that everyone would enjoy. When you look back at that time,

would you say the draft was one of those nights that completely changed your life? I agree. Yes, I agree. I look back on it and it changed my life definitely. And, you know, sometimes you go through changes in life which could propel your career to be something special. Or if you don't hit it head on and understand the situation, it could be just another hurdle. And I took it on as a big challenge. I understood the opportunity.

And I took full advantage of it. And for me, that's one of the life lessons that I teach. A lot of the kids that I coach are come in contact with or even. my kids of just you never know when that opportunity is going to present themselves. So you have to be ready and willing to take it on and also to continue to ride with it as it's in your path. And so I look on it, look at it as a 21-year-old kid being drafted second round, second overall, a dream come true. But now the works had to start then. Things had to change. and then you really had to change things around for the better.

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The thing that I find so interesting about any professional athlete is you did so much before you got drafted. You've obviously done so much since you played in the NFL, but so much of your life will be defined by those 13 years that you played. What do you say to the kids that you're coaching or your own kids about the fact that this sliver of your life may define your entire life? Well, the message that you said, again, it goes back to your, you're doing. just never know what it may be. It could be someone coming to your life that's new, that tells you a little bit about yourself. It could be an opportunity that's granted to you if it's a scholarship that you receive or, you know, you get rewarded by whatever, if it is, if it's from material things. But it's just you have to be ready for any and everything.

If you prepare yourself for great things in life and things present themselves, now that you've kind of rewarded yourself with an opportunity to do great things, you have to continue to ride down that path that you set in order for you to accomplish that. Now that you've accomplished it, how will you be able to make it better, not only for you, but the people around you? I think it was always so interesting watching your post-game press conferences because no matter what kind of activity you had in the game, no matter what kind of performance you had, you always had a smile on your face.

Right. How difficult was it to put a smile on your face with some of the questions that you were being asked? Well, I mean, you know, for me, I've always found humor and everything. And, you know, good or bad. But also we're human. And so, you know, there are some things that frustrates you. There are some things that, you know, you kind of look back on and you say, well, man, I could have done this or, you know, hey, you know, I apologize for whatever. But, you know, I think whenever you present yourself in front of people, you have to present yourself, obviously, that you hold yourself accountable.

But then you have to show that there's no pain. You know, whatever it is that you have inside you, if there is pain, you don't show it. And so if it's a smile, if it's a joke here, there, you know, whatever it may be, that kind of takes people's mind off of how they think you truly feel. And you answer the question and get ready for the next. Did you ever have the media go, you know, you're smiling, you're making jokes, you're not taking this thing seriously. Oh, I got that all the time. I got that all time when people said I didn't take serious. But again, if you're enjoying life and you're enjoying your everyday grind in the process, you know, people don't need to know truly how you feel.

Because it shows that you're enjoying, you're taking everything, you know, like a grain of salt, but you're challenging yourself. And I challenge myself and I love the end result. On the flip side of that, what's the reaction you get from players? Now that you're an analyst, you know, not everything you're saying is positive. You know, you're critical of a lot of the players. What's been the reaction you've got? Well, I mean, people, some people get upset. Some people take it on, like they understand exactly what I'm saying.

And one thing that I try to try to express it in a way where it doesn't, come off personal. Some people may receive it as if it's personal, but I make sure that they understand before I say anything that it's not personal because you have to be able to take criticism in order for you to be able to readjust some things that you may have done or that you're doing to get back on a positive journey. And I've understood that while I was growing up, now we're all human And again, we hate to hear people talking negative about us. But once you understand where the negativity is coming from and what it means, then now you start to take a look at things a little differently.

You start to watch your play. You start to watch some different things that I point out. And then that's when people start to accept it and say, you know what? You were right. You know, when you first said it, I was like, well, wait a minute, where did that come from? But then as I started paying attention to it, then I understood exactly what. what you were saying. When you look at what Carson Wentz is doing right now,

what's your take on how he's been playing? Well, you know, I'm seeing a guy who's pressing. You know, he's a guy that's a great athlete, can throw the ball very well. He's shown he can lead. But at the end of it all, I just think he's pressing right now. He's pressing to make an impression.

And when you get to this situation where you look back over his years, everyone keeps talking about the 2017 year where he was an MVP candidate. It hasn't been the same since. And you've been derailed by injury. So now if people don't realize it because I've been there, you just drafted the second round pick as a quarterback to soak up to his backup.

When fans are going to now start chanting Jalen Hertz's name because of his play. So he's pressing hard to try to make an impression that's taken away from a lot of things that he can accomplish. I feel like he needs to get the ball of Zach Ertz more often. Why isn't this happening? I said the same thing. Come on. I mentioned, I first of all, I had Zachers, my tight end on fantasy football.

But I just got a team stacked with Eagles. Yeah, well, I mean, no, because they weren't giving me no point. So, you know, I told him, you know, I said it on, you know, a few interviews and I said, the problem with this offense is you have to start inside out. You have to start inside out because the most productive player you have on the offense is your tight-end Zach Gertz. But what they were doing, they were trying to get the ball to Dallas Giker down.

And this next option was Zach. And so I'm like, that's backwards. But then you take into account of the whole business aspect of things. If Zach comes out of that year last year with that same year when he passed Jason Witten, now you've got to pay them.

So it's a lot that went involved in that. They went back to Zach and started getting things going, especially with the injuries. to be my receivers. But I thought that they should have started the season out the same way, and then Zach gets hurt. What's it like being a player and knowing that you are on people's fantasy football team? I hear that to this day.

I'm 43 years old, and I still hear parents talking about how I was their quarterback for years and helped them win fantasy football championships. So now that I'm involved a little bit in a fantasy football world, I see what they're saying. but I'm not going to be the old guy that's going to see some of these young kids when they get older and say, hey, you know what?

I had you on my fantasy football back in 2000, you did great things for me. But is that a compliment or is it like, yeah, that's great that I'm on your fantasy team, but I'm doing the real thing out here. It's a compliment because while I was playing, I didn't know anything about fantasy football. Yeah, I guess it wasn't as big.

It wasn't as big. And, you know, toward the end of my career, it started to come about. But, you know, I just, I look at it in a sense. It's one in which it's interesting. But yet still, you know, it's something that I enjoy now. How different would you say the current NFL is from the NFL that you played in? The rules are a lot different.

You know, the hits are being penalized more. The hand checking is starting to get ridiculous. But, again, it's one. which is still the football, it's football game. So the quarterback is still throwing the ball. You're running the ball. You got to block. I just think some of the rules have made the game somewhat softer.

And it makes it really not as interesting as it should be. Like, I need to see more kickoff returns. I need to see more power return. You know, the exciting part of field position is what I think we're missing consistently. Well, do you think that with the difference in the rules now, with the quarterback being as protected as they are, that you could have played differently, if those were the rules now?

I wouldn't say all of that because I'm not that old guy that looks back and say, I could still play 20 years. No, I look at the sense I played in a year and the era that I did. Would it change in a little bit now? Would things that be different? It might be. But you still got to get hit if it's flagged or not.

You're still going to get hit. Your body still gets sore. So it's hard to say. Do you look at a guy like Tom Brady, who's the same age as you, and go, man, how's he still doing it? I commend him. I commend him because, you know, I look at it in a sense of, yeah, it's rewarding. I mean, 20 years, he and Drew Breeze both. I commend him.

Could I do it? No, not at all. No. I'll pass. At what point in your career did you start looking to like, all right, what's going to be next after my football career? Actually, I had a plan my second or third year in the league. Oh, wow. Going in the college, that was one of the things that I was focusing on as far as broadcast journalism.

And I wanted to become a sports anchor and an analyst. And that's why I went to Syracuse, obviously for football, but then for the broadcast journalist department. So that was my plan when I unlaced them and kind of hung him up to go right into sports. and become an analyst sports broadcast. Were you doing things during your career that was going to line that up? Yes, I was. I was doing things during the offseason with different networks, with NBC, with ESPN, CBS.

So every year I was doing something, either was it playoffs or possibly the offseason, to try to, I guess, perfect my craft a little bit and give me that opportunity when it was all said and done. You know, when we talk about, like, what's different about the NFL, now versus when you played when you came in in 1999 there were you know hardly any black quarterbacks now it's it's i guess half almost half the starters right uh 10 10 now i think

uh there were there were 10 i think that started in in the opening opening game of the season um i haven't kind of paid attention too much of who's still going i know duane haskins uh is not a start not a starter anymore um but it's still going and you know i think it will continue to grow when you look at the collegiate ranks of some of these great players that are either juniors, sophomores, or possible seniors. So it would be interesting to see how it continues to open up. But you were, you know, you were such a trailblazer here. And, you know, what did it mean to you to be an inspiration for, you know, young black quarterbacks that want to do what you did? Well, I mean, it was exciting. It's exciting still, you know, to reflect back.

on the numbers of when I came out, myself, Dante, as well as Sean King, you know, and even before us with Doug Williams, James, James, Harris, Marlon Bristol, and Joe Gilea and those guys. And I can't forget about the

Randalls and the Warrens that pass the torch on to us. So it's just a torch passing to those guys to continue on their own legacy. You just try to be a mentor to them and try to prepare them for what they're going to be Facebook. Yeah, if someone is coming into the NFL and wants to follow in your footsteps,

what's the best advice that you have for them, both on the field and also off the field? The advice that I give for them pretty much is to continue to stay focused, try not to be distracted, build that work ethic and gain respect from your teammates, and utilize your ability. You know, don't kind of just try to be something that you're not, continue to learn. learn and prepare and build of what you can do at that position, but still allow your athletic ability to take over when you need it.

You feel like you have one game that really defined your career and that people look back on and they go, man, that's when Donovan was at his best. I don't, I don't remember one game. You know, things happen over time as you learn more and more about the position and you get comfortable, not only with yourself,

but you get comfortable in your surroundings. You get comfortable in your supporting tasks. And it's just, for me, it was just a growing process. And I was willing to be patient and kind of go through the process. And I think that helped me out. When Terrell Owens came and joined you, I mean, that first play, that first pass, 81 yards, did you realize that you guys were clicking and had something real special there?

Yeah, we had worked in the offseason together. And that's something that I took pride in. We spent time a couple of weeks in the off season before we got into training camp of just going over plays and our timing and his depth of the routes and my ball placement, things of that nature. So when we went in the camp, it was like we had already played a year together. And I think that propelled our whole team because now they've seen the chemistry that we had on offense. And our defense started to jail quickly as well.

And that year was just something special. I feel like on that first play, I mean, even the commentator says it. Like, you know, look for him to throw to T.O. here. Yeah. Was there anybody else on that read that you might have thrown to? Well, I mean, sometimes he was the first read. Sometimes he was the second. And we had other guys that benefited with him being out there.

But yet still, you know, we tried to pay attention to that and do what was right. But when he had the ball in his hands, he was an explosive guy. Yeah. Are there any Eagles players that reach out to you now for inspiration or for feedback? No, not necessarily. I talk to some of when I get back back to Philadelphia. But now it's just me being a spectator and just watching, you know, from home or whatever it may be and just try to cheer more. A spectator and a fantasy football player.

There you go. But I guess it can give you a different appreciation. you know, for the game now that you can take maybe even half a step back. Right. Right. I mean, it does. And that's the exciting part about this whole deal. It's just, it's just one day at a time. But yet, it's still when Sunday or Monday comes around, I'm just like everybody else. You know, I'm right in front of the TV and, you know, calling out plays, getting pissed off when they don't run something that I call. But, you know, that's what we do. This might be difficult to answer. But if you had, it's two minutes last,

your team's down by five. Who would you like your quarterback to be right now? Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson, two minutes to go on the game, balls in his hands, utmost confidence that he'll be able to get the job done. What do you think it is about him that's so special? Big playability and his ability to make people around him better.

That's what a quarterback is. That's what the definition of a quarterback is. and he's underappreciated. He's a guy that gained a lot of respect across the league. But as far as reporters and analysts, they have a tendency of kind of looking past him because he doesn't have the wow factor. And all he does is with.

And I've truly respected Russell since he was in Wisconsin and know the kid and he's a cerebral guy with the big playability. And he's shown that each and every year he deserves his respect. I feel like if he was four inches, five inches taller, everyone would be loving on him. Well,

I mean, we could say the same thing is if he wasn't black, he was white, it'd be different. So we are who we are, you know, and Russell's five, ten, he'll say he's six foot, but he's about five, eleven, six foot, I'll give him six foot. But, you know, it doesn't matter

your size, it doesn't matter your skin color. You're a good player. You're a good player. If he says he was six foot, did you also fib on your height a little bit? No, not at all. You know, I was six three. I could easily say six four, six five. But, you know, that's kind of out of reach.

I love to end every interview by, because I think that being grateful and having gratitude is just such an important quality to have. And I want to end every interview by asking you, what are three things that you're grateful for in your life right now? Uh, grateful for my family, uh, grateful for the opportunity of waking up, um, each morning. Um, and I'm grateful for just being here in a great, great country, um, that, you know, hopefully will continue to support one another, uh, and express love to one another, um, as we continue to move forward.

This has been so insightful. Donovan, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Thank you for having it. Oh, man, I really enjoyed that conversation, and I hope that you did as well. I'm just so fascinated by deconstructing the mindset of someone like him who has competed at the highest level for so long. And like we mentioned at the end there, he's paved the way for a lot of quarterbacks that we see in the NFL now. Share this with a friend who you think would enjoy this.

Tag us on social media so we can share it. I'm at Chris Van Fleet on Twitter. Donovan is at Donovan J. McNabb. and you can see everything that he's up to right now on his website, which is Donovan McNabb.com. I'll leave you with this quote from Sir Edmund Hillary, who was the first man to climb Mount Everest. He said,

people do not decide to become extraordinary. They decide to accomplish extraordinary things. So there you go. Chew on that one for a minute today. You know, that minute while you're leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. And have a great, week. Be great. Be great. Be grateful and we will see you on the next one. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand

bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Alley. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.