Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Dustin Rhodes on Cody's Story, Goldust, AEW, Working For Tony Khan & Vince McMahon

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Dustin Rhodes (@dustinrhodes) is a professional wrestler signed to AEW. He is known for his 35+ year career where he also worked for WWE, WCW and TNA Wrestling. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet in Philadelphia, PA to talk about his legendary career, his emotional match at Double Or Nothing 2019 against his brother Cody, his father Dusty Rhodes not wanting him to be a wrestler, debuting in WWE as "The Natural", the original pitch from Vince McMahon to become Goldust, his comedic moments with Booker T and R-Truth, why his character Se7en didn't work in WCW, his decision to sign with AEW, why he knew Cody would leave AEW for WWE, calling out The Rock and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: "If you love life, don't waste time, for time is what life is made up of." – Bruce Lee Sponsors: PRIZEPICKS: Download the app today and use code INSIGHT for a first deposit match up to $100! BABBEL: Learn a new language and get 50% off your lifetime Babbel subscription at http://babbel.com/cvv RHONE: Upgrade your closet with Rhone and use CVV to save 20% at https://www.rhone.com/CVV ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight MUDWTR: Get 15% off with the code CVV15 at http://mudwtr.com/cvv BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 15% on your BONCHARGE Infrared Sauna Blanket! For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Chris Buh! Oh my goodness. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Vleet. Thank you for being here with us. And thank you for making

Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the planet. What a weekend. I just got back home from being in Philly since last Wednesday for WrestleMania 40. That was a heck of a show. There were great matches on both nights, but I think we can agree that night two

just as a whole was better. better than night one, especially with that endgame style main event with The Rock and John Sina and The Undertaker, all making appearances. We're going to dive into the nitty-gritty of WrestleMania and the raw after-Resslemania on this Friday's Ask CVV episode. So if you have a specific question about that, send it in on social media using that hashtag Ask CVV. The biggest news, of course, is that Cody finished the story. And that brings us to today's episode. I caught up with Dustin Rhodes on Friday before WrestleMania. And I know there were a lot of rumors about him coming out to help Cody on night two. Obviously, that didn't happen because he's

under contract with AEW. But here's the thing about Dustin Rhodes. There is so much to talk about with him in his 35 plus year career. An hour long episode, I mean, it's a great conversation, but it really only scratches the surface of what he's done and what he can do. continues to do. And he's been doing some of the best work of his career since he signed with AEW in 2019. And I mean, that match he had with Cody at AEW's first ever show, Double or Nothing, made me cry. I was there live. Made a lot of people cry. And he's without a doubt, a future Hall of Famer. And just think of the body of work that he's done from being the natural to being gold dust in WWE, his work in WCW, his work in TN.A. And,

He's a legend. He's a legend. Plain and simple. And he has a brilliant mind for the business. And he also doesn't do a lot of these interviews at all. So I'm really, really grateful for this opportunity. Snap a screenshot. Let us know you're listening. Tag us so we can share it out as well. He's at Dustin Rhodes on Twitter. He's at Dustin Rhodes TX on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. And let's do it. Please welcome Dustin Rhodes. It's so good to see you. Thank you, buddy. Thank you for making the time to do this.

Yeah, absolutely. I feel like you're doing the best work of your career these last few years. I agree. What's changed? What's different? Maybe just the gem, maybe. It's being more in shape than I've probably ever been because I am getting old, you know. You look lean and mean.

You're looking great. Probably the lowest I've been. since 2023 years old, something around there. Really? What do you weigh these days? 230. You look great. 28, I kind of go 225 to 230, so any heavier, and I can tell.

I had never cried before watching a wrestling match and double or nothing 2019. Yeah. My goodness. There wasn't a dry eye in the entire building, but you got me. Yeah. What did that match? mean to you? That's a lot.

I really, at the beginning of it, before it happened, I wasn't sure what new crowd, AEW, been at WW for so long. Are they going to respond? Like, I want them to respond. Are they going to move me out of the building? What's going to happen? Nervous, of course, you know, you're working with your brother. You want to have a good one.

And the music hits, and they responded in kind and get out there. and it's just, I've explained it before, and it's very special, very emotional, very heart-driven. You stand there, and I just look at Cody across the ring, and I point up to the sky, right, and they just started the dusty chance, just like crazy, loud, and it was just like electric, and it was so focused. And I tell the fans this, you know, I can see the fans, but I can't really see them. I can hear them, but I can't hear them because we were so focused on each other and what needed to be done at that time to really shotgun this company, AEW, just into existence.

And it was amazing. I mean, we could have missed a bunch of stuff and it wouldn't have mattered. The story was there, you know, two promos set it up, brother versus brother. It worked, you know, and we were told years ago. ago. It just wasn't good enough to be on like the big card, right? The big show. And they were wrong. And we just went out there and absolutely slaughtered it. It was incredible. The stars aligned. It was perfect. I mean, couldn't have been more perfect. There was a moment at the end when you were like, you were thinking of retiring. Were you actually going to hang it up? I was actually. So that I didn't

have any idea about what Cody was doing. I thought he was okay, he's leaving. the ring this is my time right now just to go okay i've had a great career and uh you know he surprised me with his uh throwback with the dad you know the promo i need my older brother and it was uh very emotional that's when people started squalling and when the dry eye in the place and it was just both of us we were crying holding each other you know hugging it was just uh very strong It was a strong feeling. So it was really good. You feel when you're growing up, the son of a legend, that wrestling's in your blood,

do you feel like you have to be a pro wrestler when you're a kid? I wanted to be. You know, I mean, you could say out of my mother's womb, I wanted to be a pro wrestler, right? So it was like you watched for years and years and years and you're such a fan of dad. But, you know, growing up I watched a lot of world-class championship wrestling, right? because I had a little big black and white TV, small, right? That's the kind they had back then, those little black and whites. That's how old I am, guys.

I'm a dinosaur, for fuck sake. But watch it every time I could. You know where Dad would come into town or I would visit him in Florida or whatever. It always took us to the matches. It was great. That's what I wanted. My dad did not. He wanted me to, you know, sports and football and college and things like that.

And I was very good at football. had scholarship offers. It's just my grades weren't there. I wasn't in the right mindset to go play football. I wanted to do what he did. And that's all I wanted to do. And looking at it in hindsight, I have no regrets for not going to college.

I've had a hell of a career. I've made millions and millions of dollars. It's incredible. I mean, taking care of my family and doing what I love, not working a day in your life. And it's been great, but it was tough at the beginning. because he sent me to Ford under Steve Kern and Mike Graham to learn and start my career there for a couple of years or a year and a half, you know, making $20 a night. But that was the funest time I've ever had in the 36 years in the business.

Yeah. Just passionate and hungry and just wanting to be like a sponge and soak everything in. And I did have had some great teachers because back in those days, back in the 80s and 90s, everybody knew how to work, right? And then the young guy would come in and you shut up and listen, and that was me. And you'd be step in the ring with Ricky Steamboat, Barry Windham, Arne Anderson, Bobby, and Larry's his best go. Those were my teachers. So I just listened to them and they guided me to the great things that we did, right?

And it was very special. So it took years before I started talking. being around the business growing up in the business. Do you remember what your earliest memory was, like in an arena around wrestling? I was, I think, seven or eight years old. My dad came into town, and he wrestled downtown Austin at the auditorium or the Coliseum or whatever it was.

I remember going to the show, me and my sister, Kristen, and watching the matches, hell of a time, a lot of fun. And afterwards, the arena cleared out and we're just waiting on dad to take a shower and all that so we can go get somebody to eat and go back to the house, whatever. And I saw the ring and I walked up to the ring and I started climbing in the ring at a very early age. And my dad had just come out of the shower and he was dressed and he came out of there and he cussed me a good one. Don't you ever be in that ring?

That's like started very early. He did not want that for me. And I understand why he didn't want that for me. It's very hard on families. It's very hard on wives. It's brothers, sisters, whatever. you know, you're gone so much. And so it's, it's very hard on them, right?

You have to have a good wife that really understands that you're going to be gone a lot and that you're sacrificing a lot just to be on the road and trying to live your dreams. And luckily, you know, my third wife, Terrell, she's been the greatest thing in my life. And she understands it because she was in the Renaissance Fair for years and years. And she traveled all over the country. So she knows. and it was a it's just you know it's a blessing that i found her and you know she's she understands completely when i'm on the road i'm on the road she didn't try to bother me but so many lives you know

so many people in the past they're they just they get jealous and they're like insecure and things like that and it's a tough tough business for families what do you think was the vision that you had for dustin rose as a wrestler when you first got another of the business because you you've played so many different characters you've been so many different people what was the vision you had when you first entered just 80s cowboy you know that's kind of i just looked at my dad he was always this cowboy you know big dust always a cowboy always a hat on the boots and stuff like that and it's kind of what i wanted to do i wanted to be just like him but that's impossible and you know it took me years to figure that out and and finally realized that you know i can't

fill my dad's shoes. I can't, you know, not even close. So I had to, that's when the gold dust thing came along and, you know, it opened my eyes to, hey, maybe I need to fill my own shoes. And I did. And it was something completely,

completely different than what I am. Was gold dust, like, because it was so far removed from what you were doing before, was that just a chance to be like, look, I'm not my father's son anymore. I'm doing my own thing here. Yeah, in a sense, yes. Yeah.

And the original pitch from Vince, you've told this many times, but Androgenous. He just kept saying androgynous. Yes. And at the end of the kind, yeah, sure, Vince, yeah, great. I love it. And I'm just thinking, what's endrogynous? What the hell's androgynous? Hang out the phone.

Did you have any idea what that might have meant? It sounded like something that's not good. Right. So I went to the dictionary, looked it up, and I'm just like, my jaw dropped. And I was like, what did I just sign up for and agree to do? And, you know, I thought about it for a while. And I was like, you know what, this may be a chance to do something good. I wasn't looking at it as events trying to rib me or any of those things.

I'm just trying to make my way, make my name in the business and try to just grow my legacy as much as I possibly could. And it worked out. But I had to put 110% in it. And there was a lot of tough things that we did that I was scared to do, didn't want to do, didn't want to touch on these issues that were very important to people later on down the road. They're all, you know, they'll DM me or something saying, you really helped me come out or whatever it is. So, you know, you hear that a bunch of times from fans.

It's like, wow, I really had an impact back then. but that was tough for me to step out of that comfort zone. But when you do that, and I've learned to realize when you step out of your comfort zone in your little circle, right? Everything's very comfortable in your little circle, but you step outside of that and you're trying something brand new

that might frighten you, that's where the magic happens. I can't imagine Vince thought this would be a character that would last 20-plus years. It's amazing. It really is. It's just my work ethic, man. I always put 110% into anything I've ever done, and it was a pretty cool experience. Football season may be over,

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slash insight. Unifiedhealing.com slash insight. No materials or testimonials on the Unified Healing website are intended to be viewed as medical advice or a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health care provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or treatment. and before undertaking a new health care regimen, including EES system. Where did it start with gold dust? Where did you start to? Was it the body suit?

Was it the makeup? When did you start to feel like gold dust? Probably in the garden with Savio Beg. And I ran into him today. And I was like, holy shit. And I hugged him. Just amazing. But Savio wanted me to, he's the one that pushed me to step outside of the circle to,

to try something and I just I kept telling him no no no and it happened in the garden and I remember doing it for the first time just some weird weird sick shit right and rolled out of the ring because he chased me and I was just like and they responded in like a way that I had not had happened yet in the six seven months that I'd been there and I'd been trying new things and trying to throw all kind of shit at the wall and seeing what sticks and just that was the thing that stuck And they came unglued and they just, they screamed every kind of profanity, all of it towards me. And I'm just, it was scary. I'm sitting there next to the rail with a predominantly, you know, Puerto Rican area in New York City.

It's like in Saubio Vegas, Puerto Rican. I'm just like, what the fuck did I just do? And I look at Sabio in the ring and he's laughing. And I'm like, damn, man, even try to get me killed. but from that point on, it was like Gold Dust was truly born. Is this like you walked right up to that line of like sexuality? And didn't want to cross it.

But what I did, that's when this stuff happened. And it was like, Vince gave me the reins for this character. He let me find myself. I mean, it was hands on in my voice, a lot trying to bring out a creepy, sexual Gold Dust voice, right?

And he worked with me. Hands on, we did a bunch. And I finally got it, you know, and you have your few little catchphrases that stick or whatever and your body mannerisms. And that was it. We ran with it. And it was incredible. He gave me, I remember he took it away from me at a time, too, later on. And I was like, why, man?

I couldn't understand why, but I was still very young. How did you find that voice? I don't know. I really, I have no clue. It's just a softer, deeper, slower, just sexual comes out. You know, it's just like, where the fuck did that come from? Jesus Christ, how am I doing this?

I'm too good at this. What the fuck? Was there a part of you that was like, I am, look, I'm so good. Look how good my dad was. Look how good I am. Why are you giving me this character? I've never thought that about myself, and I still don't.

And that's something I need to work on. I'm a work in progress in that. Having the just where I look at myself, you know, I've been pretty good. I'm a humble guy, but I'm full of humility, man. And I'm just appreciative of the opportunities and things, and I ran with it, did good. But, you know, I'm working on trying to just say, hey, you know, Dustin, you are damn good. You're Dustin fucking Rhodes. You gold dust. You put on

one of the greatest characters ever, and I have. And I did. And I'm proud of that. So, yeah. You're just not an asshole. I'm too nice sometimes. Undertaker says you're, you should be in the Hall of Fame when you don't. I watched that. I watched that that episode with him and Rogan.

Right? Yeah. It's Rogan. Yeah, what'd you think when you heard that? It was nice at him. I loved working Mark, man. He was great. Always great. Just, you know, you got two people that can work. It's, it makes things a lot easier. And back then, everybody could work, so you had good batches, good storylines.

It was just different. The attitude era was a different beast, man, than anything we've ever had. And it was a ruthless aggression era and all the other eras that we have gone through. And look at where we're at now and just how much the business has changed over the years, right? And I'm an old school guy. But, and I say this to my students all the time, without the old school, there is none of this new school, right? You have to learn this shit right here. Then you add your little spices and your little 2024 attitude with it and a couple of new movesets.

People want to be told a story, period. And I swear to God, it still works. And it's just, you know, that's me. I'm a storyteller. I'm big on psychology. I'm big on making people feel something. because that is the most important thing. If they're feeling something at home sitting in their recliner,

and I touch their lives or move them in some way, they're coming back. They're not turning the channel. And there's a lot of people that don't. And there are a lot of people just going through the motions and doing moves and moves with no rhyme, no meaning. And, you know, nothing against them. But that's just not me.

I mean, there's different styles. And mine is, it's old school. You've said a few times now that everybody back then could work. Can not everyone now work? No. No, there's very few of us. Few of us. Like, we are few. And what's the difference?

What's the difference between working the style that you work and working how some people work now? So back then, you're listening constantly. You have to improvise. You don't have these planned out things. You're just calling it on the fly, right? And that's how to do that. That's how you learn. And these days, and nothing again.

today because I do it now too. You know, it's like you put your match together in the back and stuff like that and everybody knows, okay, this is my spot, but some towns are different. Like you go to New York City and they might not like that, but then you go down south and of course they're going to love it. So you've got to be able to switch it up and know when to switch it up when it happens because fans today will let you know just how much it sucks. What's happening in this era right now?

Like, what, why is wrestling having this resurgence? Why is it cool again? It is like a renaissance, isn't it? Yeah. It is cool, man. You know how it goes in cycles. And I think we're on an up cycle right now. It's a credible business for everybody.

Everybody's kicking ass. The Indies are strong. AW is strong. WW is strong. You know, you look at TNA coming back. It's incredible to watch, right? People love to be entertained. They want to be taken.

taken out of their day for two or three hours, however long the show is. And whatever they're going through, good, bad, whatever, they get away. They want to watch this. And that's our job to take them out of that and entertain them. I feel like Cody's really leading the charge of him. He was doing a great job. I'm so proud of him. Did you ever think that he'd leave A.A.W.?

I didn't, actually. I didn't. But I know some stuff that went on. And, you know, I think it was just his time. He made a smart decision. I made a very smart decision. Look at him now. You know, he is the man here.

So it's an incredible, incredible ride, incredible journey from him leaving the first time in WWE and saying he's betting on himself and just taking the ball and fucking run him with it. And he created something really cool. That's awesome. Yeah, what do you, what do you say? seeing your brother now that maybe he didn't have the first time around in WWA?

More wisdom, more business sense. He's gotten very smart for his age in a short period of time, and he studies. He's a studier of the business. He's a studier of politics. He's a study of all kinds of things, you know, and he's, I mean, he studies his vocabulary. He uses such big words, and that's just not me, right? I'm like, damn, what does that mean? I'm thinking, then I'll look it up.

Oh, that's a good word. But I won't ever fucking remember it. You know, he's, that's what kind of sets us different. He wears their suits all the time. I can't. It's just, it's too hot. You know what I mean? And just comfort for me.

But he's, he's everything, when you look at a, a true superstar or mega star, he is fitting that bill right now. And he is doing an amazing job of carrying, the company along with, you know, the great talent that are there yet, but he's right now, he can do no wrong. They're pushing him to the moon, and it's, uh, it doesn't happen that much to people, right? So it's really good to see that it, it roads is really getting there said due in the business with WWE. When you were teaming with him, you know, a decade ago,

Did you see that in him at that point in time? Maybe a little bit, but not anything like he is today. I think he just became, his IQ just jumped off the charts in the last 10 years, in the last five years. He's such an intelligent young man, man. And we're 16 years difference. And he's just, I'm like, dang, he's really doing good. And I'll watch him on everything.

he does and it's just amazing how he handles things and that's what it takes and he loves it and he keeps doing it and that's what it's going to take when you're going to carry the ball for the whole company the rock referenced you in a promo recently yeah yeah he did what did you think when you heard that i thought that was pretty cool that was pretty cool but fuck the rock so that's not the first time you said that that's right yeah what do you mean when you say fuck the rock i say fuck the rock You can't beat up my brother and I may not say nothing. You know what I mean? I feel like, I mean, you and the Rock have some history there.

A little bit. Yeah. His first match with me. His first singles match. He's a megastar. Yeah. It's good for the business. He's coming in.

He's on the board. I mean, my God, man. We're in good hands. It's a great time for wrestling right now. It is. Yeah. It's a fun time. So when you say teaming with Cody was fun,

how did you find out that that was going to happen that kind of came together pretty quickly because cody had left um i couldn't win cody's job back so you know they're trying to remember and they send me home and then that opportunity came with a shield and it was like if we win we get you know get our jobs back and all that kind of thing and it was really really cool that dad got to be involved in that and it just happened overnight you know and they used all those those uh interviews over the months and put them all together in that nice package that they always put together right and it's it worked and it was hot god dang that was so hot because nobody had beaten the shield and we came in and it was such a freaking good match too man and it's just and we beat them that place

was that's kind of when stars are born you know that type of moment was so loud, so crazy, and just going to be a part of it. Very blessed. You talk about putting 110% in a gold dust, and I feel like Cody put 110% into Star Dust, and it just didn't work for whatever reason. You had a lot of fans out there. A lot of people did like Star Dust, and he did go into that character crazy, because we did so many backstage segments together, and just his voice,

And the way he was saying these words about space and quantum physics and all that crap, it was, you know, he did his homework on it. And he tried to bring that thing to life. And he did. And it was, I know a lot of people, I know he doesn't like it. And a lot of people may or may not like it, but it was really cool to see him kind of step into a character and pull something off, you know, that's completely different from what he is. Right?

It's just acting, you know, it's character acting is all it is. It's improvising. And improvising is very hard for actors in Hollywood, right? Because they're strictly to the script, and it's just like, I've got to read these lines, and now I find my emotion in them, and, you know, there's certain moments or whatever, and, you know, it's hard. It's like we've been in acting school, our whole careers. Could you tell that he was, like it was wearing on him, that he wasn't enjoying it?

No. not towards the end a little bit. But he never said, you know, he was not having a good time with it. It was obvious you were always having a good time with gold dust. Not so much sometimes. It always looked like it on camera. Well, that's me.

If the red lights on, I'm not going to call it in or put out a bad performance just because I don't want to be there or I feel pissed off because I'm having to do a certain something, right? It's not good for business. You've got to keep your business separated from you feeling like a piece of shit or whatever right before that.

You've got to go out and entertain. That's your job. And, you know, it took me a long time to realize that. How did you come to realize that? You're in such a great position. When I got a little bit older, I guess, and it hit me. And it just hits you overnight. It's like, you know what, man, you're getting paid.

Just have fun. And that's what I tell the kids, you know. If you're not having fun, you need to go. You need to go. You had so much fun with Booker T. Yes, that was a blast. I had him on recently. He's like, I love that time with Goldie.

It was a good time. I wish it wouldn't have got cut so short, but got so many backstage segments, offshoot segments. Jesus Christ. Booker was like, you know, what's so great about it is all we'd have to do were backstage segments. It was good. And it was so much fun. Right.

Because we were just doing these few segments. Whose idea was it to take two seemingly polar opposite characters? Completely polar opposites. I think that was Brian Gorderts, maybe. But we were going to do the Scorpion King. That was the first one, Rock's first movie, right? And it went over well, and they loved it. So they started one next week.

I think it was a one-time deal, but it worked. Is this the shampoo commercial, that thing? No, this was a new. us Booker T and Goldie at the movies with watching the score. Yes. That was the first one. Yes. And it worked for them and they wanted to do it again.

And then it just became a weekly thing and, you know, offshoot in some hotel with Booker T and his girlfriend and me crawling in the bed with them, stuff like that, 7-Eleven. They shut down a 7-Eleven. I'm just like, what the hell is going on? This is a greatest shit ever. I'm not wrestling. It was awesome.

It was magic. It's fun. It was a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, it was good times. Was there anything during that time that you didn't enjoy doing? Did you feel like you could say no, like that's not a storyline I would want to do? I mean, there's probably a couple of storylines that I really didn't want to be in.

But, you know, back then, I was just, let's go. Let's do the thing, get it over with, whatever. Looking back at it, if I were to change anything, which I have no regrets because those were my teachers. and they taught me a lot of lessons, I would have probably changed the way that I approached certain things diplomatically instead of losing my temper or losing my shit, I don't want to do this or whatever, you know,

those are probably the only thing, but you grow up and you see possibly how you were back then, and it's like, man, I was rough around the edges here. I needed to, and, you know, this is all I knew. And it was like, but you kind of get a little, little wiser as you'd get older and it's like not worth it and you're thinking about it why did I do that why did not just say no or you know changed it to make it a little different yeah there's all kinds of shit that I've done that was not very good but you know whatever the promo that you cut is seven

how much of that was just you being angry in that moment uh it was a shoot it was a shoot but you know the company wanted to kill it because of the, what are they called? You know, because of the kid with the black eyes, it was a little creepy for a man to be with a little kid, right? And demonic eyes and stuff like that. I forget standards and practices, right? And it was like, and they wanted to kill it.

And Vince Russo came to me and said, hey, we need to kill this. And this is the first, this is the debut, right? We did all these videos and I got hot. I said, I want you to cut a promo. And I don't know what it's going to be about, but you just go out there and tell me what you think. So I went out there and we did the entrance. It was a pretty cool entrance. It cost like $25,000 every time you were going to do it, though.

And it was a very cool entrance, and that was my vision, all those things. Those vignettes, everything, that came from me. And we shot them just like I wanted. And it was very cool. And then to cut that promo. And I didn't really know what I was going to say. and I thought about it during the daytime. And it was, you know, sometimes when I overthink things,

I just need to walk away and then it just comes. And it's gotten so easy as you get older, you know, to talk in front of a live audience or even in a room full of people. Back then, it was tough for me in promos. Like, well, not seven, but like early on, it was like, I didn't know what I was doing. And I just got that promo. on the stuff I said was a pretty spot on in a shoot.

When you went to the back? Everybody loved it. When you went to the back, did they say... It was good? Oh, they did. Yeah, they were like, man, that was a great fucking promo. They just thought that was a work part of it. Yeah.

But then it's like, now the character's dead. I mean, then where do you go from there? That's when we became the American nightmare. People forget that. I know. People forget that you were the original. American Nightmare. Yeah.

And that had a small run, and then, you know, WCW got bought out. And when did the conversation happen much later with Cody going, I want to be the American Nightmare? Well, that was like four years ago, three, three, four years ago. And is it like, look, I know that you were the American Nightmare? Yeah. I just had a sign of paper. It's great.

I didn't care. Yeah, go, baby. Do it. Yeah. And he took it and ran with it, man. It's got over like crazy. Have you seen this video online? It's one of your old entrances.

Yes. But it's Cody's new music. Yes. It's pretty cool. They got one of Dad, too. Oh, yeah? Doing Dusty's entrance. With Cody's?

Or no, Cody with Dad's music. Oh, wow. It's pretty cool. Wow. They always do that crazy stuff. I remember asking Cody years ago, what's the one piece of advice from Dusty that just sticks with you all the time.

And he told me, maximize your minutes, even if you've only got two minutes for a match or 30 seconds for a promo, maximize your minutes. What is it for you? What's the thing that rattles around from Dusty for you? He would always tell me, and I say it to my students still,

and it's crazy. He'll pull me aside, and maybe I'm having a hard time early on with promos and stuff, and he said, Dustin, it's not about what you, how you're saying something or what you're saying or how you're wrestling in the ring and what moves you're doing.

It's about how you make somebody feel. If you can make somebody feel they're going to come back. So I just remembered that. And it was like that's the one big piece of advice that he gave me that I've held on to. I think one of the great things about gold dust was your entrance. Yeah, great entrance. Who is behind the entrance and making it 24 frames and widescreen? I'm probably Kevin Dunn did came up with all the you know 24-carat

Shattered Dreams productions but it looks it was pretty cool it looks like film when you come out yes yeah reminds me a Tony Storm a little bit now with her black and white right we talk about it all the time we want to tag I think it would be really cool just mixed tag once or twice that'd be because she's doing amazing with that character and it's just like and you want to talk about someone going all in on a character yes She's all in on her character. She is. Dan Housen's all in on his character.

Crazy, man. I mean, there's not many characters kind of left. That's true. True characters. Like Abadon, let's say, right? Dan Housen. Dan Housen or Gold Dusts or those kind of characters, right?

Yeah. I think they had a good run. Will they come back? Do you take a comeback? Do you think you could go back to a character like that? I mean, you've got a great thing going right. now. Yeah. But you were all... I'm happy with what I'm doing right now. You know what I mean? And it's, uh, it's been really good to me. Tony, Tony really respects and treats me like a legend. And that

means a lot to me. So there's a loyalty there that I feel I have because he's, he's affording me to take care of my family and stuff, you know, so, um, but I love my character now. And I do it with a half paint, just kind of a tribute to gold dust, but also dust and roads. So that's why it's kind of half and a half. And I like it. I don't, you know, it's, I'm 55. I mean, what the hell else I'm going to do right now? I mean, you look great.

Jesus, it's like, I'm having a great time. I'm still passionate. It's still fun. When it stops being fun, that's when I'll say goodbye. What's the story when it's blue paint? or red paint. This show is just changing it up for action figures. I'm going to go to a different color, maybe green, like Emerald Green or something,

and you've got a brand new action figure. They're always marketing. You've got to market yourself, right? You've got to think, okay. I mean, Goldos had so many action figures, man, and it was like, okay, how can I do this? I'm still fighting with them right now. I need a new action figure.

I've done all these new paint jobs and stuff like that. What the fuck? Come on. So this is still fun? Yeah. You think about when you'll have your last match? No. No.

I did last year a little bit. But then, you know, it's just like, no, I'm not. It's one of those I need to sit down and think about this type conversations with myself and whether cons and the pros and not yet. Not yet. I would say two to three. Three years, maybe. When Cody left, did you think about also leaving? No, no.

I'm happy there. I'm very happy at AEW, and it's a good place for me. You know, we're growing. We're doing some wonderful things. Business is up. Everything is great. It's a different style over there as it is WWE. You know, we have some of the greatest professional wrestlers on the planet in that company, man.

And it is special to watch them, even to have a chance to step in the ring with them, you know? I mean, my God, there's some good talent there. They do some amazing stuff, just incredible stuff, like different category stuff. Like Will Osprey is in a, they have to build a new category for him. Yeah. Because he is insane. And he's so young. It's amazing how just incredible things that he does.

It's nuts. You've been there since the start. So here we are. We're coming up on the five-year anniversary. The first in-ring. It's a double-or-nothing 2019. Where is AEW at now versus where it was at five years ago? It's changed a little bit.

I don't think it's changed for the worst. I mean, every company grows. And you have somebody like Tony, who is a huge wrestling fan. I mean, huge. who I'll sit in guerrilla, okay, and say I'm not wrestling that night. I'm coaching, right? Right now I've been coaching swerve a lot in all of his matches in the last year. And I'll be really focused on watching the things and talking to the referee and giving the times

and telling him to, oh, you forgot to do this, do this or whatever, right? And Tony would go, hey, Dustin, do you remember in 1991? You were in Syracuse, New York, you were wrestling so-and-so, and you did this spot in this match. And I'm like, no, I don't, Tony. Let me concentrate on what's going on right here. We're on live television. I mean, he's got such a mind, and he remembers everything. And he loves my Dustin Rhodes.

He's always loved him, and he, I'm one of his favorites. And it's pretty cool to be under him as, you know, the boss. And I've never had a boss like that. Vince was completely different, very intimidating and very just business all the time. And Tony's business, but he's also a very kind man. His doors are always open and it's good because I felt very comfortable conversing with him, pitching him ideas constantly and just enjoying this. From the beginning, it's been one last ride and it's still going on.

Right. So it's like, it's doing something, man. It's got my passion and still piqued. Tony has this encyclopedic knowledge. He does. Like you could be like the rain man of wrestling. It's wild. Like not only will he be able to tell you what year this match happened. He'll be able to tell you the other matches on that car. Just like that. Just like that. That's a lot of information that he has in his brain. It is. It's a, that's pretty special. You right? He watches everything, right? Everything. And he watches. everything growing up like in the 90s and stuff. So he's watched it all. He's a, he's a fan first. You were at WWE for so long. You figured out a way, I'm sure, to approach Vince or talk to Vince. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the key to getting something over with Vince? Just go in there and ask him.

You know, he says, no, you choose to pick your battles. Okay. You have to choose to pick your battles and not every time you're going to win them. There's been many times he's talking. told me no, but then there's been times he's said yes. You know, and you just, you need to go talk to him, right? It's me talking to the boss is, it's better to go to the horse's head than the horse's asses, right? And I'm not saying the riders are the asses and everybody wants you to talk to the riders. Not that. Go to the boss.

And you get shit done with the boss or he can tell you no. At what point do you feel like Gold Dust became like a comedic character? Because there was a lot of stuff you did that's legendary. But that's not how the character started out. Right, right. What year, do you think? Late 90s? No, I think it was more in the 2000s.

Maybe it's the Booker stuff? Probably the Booker stuff. I mean, the... And then we went to Our Truth. Yeah, oh, that was so good. Two different people. We tried it. Still worked with Our Truth, you know.

Gold and truth. It's as far as hell. Yeah. We did some funny backstage. stuff. I forget the years, but what that was. And it's evolving the characters and doing so, you know, and I always hear, Funny doesn't draw money, but we were drawing money. Yeah. Funny does draw money if you do it right, and you're over. The David Attenborough parodies that you did? Yeah. Absolutely. So good. One of my favorites was the Steve Irwin, the crocodile hunter one. I mean, I love that

Because I loved watching him, right? And just to get in that character and try to talk like him, it was fucking hilarious. It was fucking great. I don't know how you guys keep a straight face doing this stuff. Many times we cracked each other, you know, many times we have to start it over just to by a certain look. I might look at Booker with his sensual sexual eyes or some shit, some weird shit or pop out of Tourette's moment. And he'd be like, God, damn, let's just do this again, right? We're laughing our ass.

But that's when you're having fun. When you're enjoying that and it's not like a time crunch and we're doing a pre-tape, it's easier, right? When you're alive, it's a lot more pressure on you. And I like life. I do because what you say goes out there. I remember as a kid watching you do shattered dreams for the first time. And going, how, like, how are you able to do that?

Like, you're coming. I'm just kicking them in the balls, man. I mean There's a key to it There's a key to it But I gotta keep that kind of secret And I get that The amount of trust

That your opponent has Is It's It's a lot I could tell you one story With the Blue Meanie When I wrestled him Right

We were together for a little bit But then I wrestled him On a pay-per-view I think it was St. Valentine's Day massacre Or something I set him up in the corner For Shattered Dreams And you know he wears

those jean shorts, right? I walk to the other corner and I hear people laughing. And I turn around and both of his balls are hanging outside of his jean shorts, right? And I'm like, oh, well, boom, boom, bam, and kicked. Kick the right in those balls. Oh, my God. It was just, he had a wardrobe malfunction, you know, and they were just dropped. And I'm just like, oh, damn it, what the fuck are we doing?

Did he know? I'm not sure. I know he's looked back at him. Yeah, he knew afterwards. But I don't know that he did know because your legs, it's a hard position to get in there like that. Sure. You have to be pretty bendable and loose to do it. I've tried with many people and I couldn't get them in there, right?

So it's like, it's tough on the hips. Yeah, do you have to talk to people beforehand and say, like, are you even capable of doing this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And not everybody is? Some people cannot. Some people are so tight that their hips can't move that way or whatever. And it's like, but if you can get in there, it's great, you know. And Val Venus, I kicked him in the balls for real one time.

It was one of the first times. He was sitting on the turnbuckle, the second turnbuckle, right? But he was pushed so far. I couldn't see the turnbuckle. So I tried to get under there, but it clobbered his balls, man. And I was just, I felt terrible. How were you even able to finish the match When you were at the end

That was actually at the end But man It was right in the nuts Just hard Just running full speed Wham Kick him right in the balls What's different about the coaching

The producing that you're doing now Versus the producing you were doing in WWE It's great I love it I love being a coach Tony's patient They never scream and yell It is they trust the coaches to put on to to guide these kids into a good match or, you know, a good showing with our psychology.

We got great coaches. And he gives us the freedom to do that and a little bit of power to do that, right? Like what we say goes. WWE, it was way different. And I didn't like that at all because. How was it different? So say we have a plan and they go out there and they're pulling off the stuff, but then they get off script and they're doing stuff that they shouldn't do

or they were told not to do. That's on me from Vince McMahon, right? I can't make them, I can't reach through the screen or tell the ref, tell him not to do this or I change it back up, get back on, on the train tracks. And it's just like once that happens, it's a domino effect and it just gets worse. and worse. And then, you know, he's always like, hey, thumbs up to the kids. And I know it's the shits, right?

Because they didn't do anything I told them to. And I'm just like, I'm waiting. And then every time, quicks on, Dustin, come see me. So I know, you know, many times that I've been over there. And it was a lot. But he yelled at all of us. Dean, Arne, you know, fit, rotunda, all of us. man and it was a everyday occurrence and if he didn't yell at you you had a good day right which was

few and far between so it's very stressful and i think it probably took off 10 years of my life and the one year that i produced there it was toughest thing i've ever done it was uh not for me but now that he's gone i hear that it's a lot more laid back because you have somebody that you know is completely different than vets. How much stress is there when you're going in knowing you're probably going to get yelled at? We're fired or something, you know, it's just don't yell at me. I'm a growing mad, right? You know, it's like you just belittling me and you're not giving us any power.

You tell me, well, we can't do. And it's like, okay, fine. But let me come up with something that looks just as good, right? But then it's up to the talent, you know, and some of the talent, sometimes they'd get off the track. and go in a different direction, the young ones. And it's hard to bring them back. One thing happens, it's a shit to him. So it's like they might have had a good match,

but that one thing that happened, you know, it's just, that's it. Yeah. You're the shits, you've sent my business back 30 years. He'd say that? He did one time. What? And it was like, it'll never happen again. Sorry.

And I said that more than once. With everything you've done in your career, is there anything you still haven't done? No. It's pretty amazing. It is. I've wrestled just about everybody. I mean, the one person that I did not get a chance to wrestle was that I always wanted to. He was like a dream opponent for me was Randy Savage.

Everybody else. I mean, you name them. I've probably been in the ring, I thought. I mean, of course, there's few that I haven't, but so many, so many. different God, eras, like I've been in five decades

to, Jesus Christ, it sounds like I'm, I should be in a field grazing grass. Like, just put a, you know,

give me the shot. Send me out to the pasture. Yes. Just feed me from time to time. No, just vegetate me.

Because you're doing some of your best work. Oh my God. I'm trying, buddy. It's a lot of fun, though. The last few months,

your name, it keeps got thrown around in the conversation of, you know, he's going to come back to help Cody at some point. Of course. I heard that a lot today. I'm sure you did. How does it make you feel hearing that? It feels great, you know, that they remember.

They remember the Gold Dust character. It wasn't too long ago. It was like six years ago. But would it be Gold Dust that comes that helps Cody? That's, I don't know. Would it be Dustin? I mean, I haven't had that conversation, so who knows? Yeah.

Who knows? But this is like, this is something people, like, they love in the fantasy booking world. Of course. Of course. The idea that, you know, is your brother, man, come on, come take care of your brother, watch, watch his back, take out solo. You know, all these things I keep hearing. I'm like, I just like your stuff, right? It's like, hey, I'll be there.

You know, I'll be watching. What's the answer you tell people when they, when you come to a signing like Russell Con? And that's got to be something to you here. I'll just go, I'll be there and I'll wink at them. what does that mean? I don't know. What does it mean? Just here to support my brother, watch him.

I mean, I feel like Cody's going to be a multiple time, W.B. Rechampion. Oh, absolutely. If it's not WrestleMania 40, it's going to happen at some place. It has to happen, WrestleMania 40. It really does have to happen to WrestleMania 40, isn't it? It's got to. Like, we've heard finish the story for a long time, but it really feels like the story needs to be. It doesn't right now.

Oh, boy. Where do we go? We might have a riot. It might. I mean, he's incredibly over right now, man, and it's fun to watch. DDP said to me, you know, Cody's won a back-to-back Royal Rumble. There's very few people that have won back-to-back Royal Rumble. Nobody's done a two-night main event back-to-back.

That's nuts. So DDP says that makes him a Hall of Famer, I think. Absolutely. You think Cody's a Hall of Famer? I think he's close. Yeah, I think he's close. Yeah. just him stepping away and, you know, betting on himself and doing what he did with startup with A.A.W. and the boys.

Just, yeah, that's Hall of Fame worthy right there. And then two, yeah, two roll rumbles. I mean, my God. And if he wins this on Sunday, his legacy is already cemented, man. The Rhodes family is very strong. It's definitely more than one role family and we're one of them. What was the conversation when he left WWE? What was the conversation that you had with him?

He's getting out and he's going to try some. He wasn't elaborate about it or talk to me, you know, in depth about what he was doing. I just, I understood. And look at both of you now. Yeah? Yeah. It's pretty great. Things happen, man.

Things happen. You find your passion again and you're off to the races again, you know. And it's like, oh, my God, is the wheels ever going to fall off? I hold not. You want them to fall off? No, no, no, man. My God, I'm waiting on replacements. Who's the Dustin Rhodes that's sitting in front of me right now compared to the one that debuted five, you've wrestled five decades, but that long ago.

Who's this man? I have an adventure to say, Dustin Rhodes today is a very wise man. and he thinks about everything that he does. He makes sure that it's right. You've got to keep stepping. And I say that all the time. And that's what my dad told me that. When I got out of rehab, and he called me daily.

Are you stepping? It means working that, 12 steps. And, you know, keep stepping, keep stepping. And it stuck with me. That's one of the other things, you know, that he did, that I owe him credit for him. man, it was just, that's what keeps me motivated is those words, right? And I'll look at it another way.

If I sit, I die. If you sit down, you're just going to weather up, and you've got to keep moving. You have to keep evolving. You have to never quit the hustle, because we're not here for a long time. We're here for a good time, right? So let's make the best of it. What do you think you're even on tough days and everybody has them? But I know now, like I didn't know then, that it's okay to have a bad day.

What do you think you're most proud of over your career? My sobriety. My sobriety afforded me the opportunity that I'm having now to get my life back. And that's the most important thing in my career. How many years sober now? 15. This would be my 16th year. Congratulations. Yeah, man.

Wow. Yeah, look at everything you've done in that time. It was a long road, long road, no regrets, can't have any regrets. Those are your teachers, valuable lessons, some good, some bad. I end every interview with gratitude because it's such an important part of my life. So I wake up every day, I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. And my wife and I do it before we go to bed. It's good.

Yeah, it really sets the tone for your day when you realize these are all the things I'm grateful for. Absolutely. If I just had the things I was grateful for yesterday, today, what an amazing life. Sure. Absolutely, buddy. What are three things that you're grateful for, Dustin? I'm grateful for my daughter. I'm grateful for my wife.

I'm grateful for my health. I'm grateful for my sobriety. My family, that's my dogs. I love that. That was way more than three, and I love it. I know. I feel like we can keep going with it. Good.

Yeah. I appreciate. I'm grateful that I'm still able to do this. this at such a high level with 20-year-olds. Yeah, that you have to come to my pace. I saw him down just a little bit, teach him out to tell stories. Thank you, sir. Yeah, brother. I appreciate it. All right. What a great chat with Dustin Rhodes. What a great career he's had, and he's still doing this, and he's still doing this at the highest level. So it'll be interesting to see how many more years he has left in his career. I mean, he looks amazing. He's

maybe in the best shape that he's ever been and he's looking lean and mean at 54 years old. This conversation made me want to go back and just watch some of his work in his early work as gold dust, like when he really figured out what that character was all about. And then, of course, that match he had with Cody. Double or nothing, 2019,

that is an emotional match. That is an emotional match. And I just, the storytelling in that is just brilliant. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this and tag us. He's at Dustin Rhodes on Twitter, at Dustin Rhodes TX on Instagram. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. I've shared this quote from Bruce Lee before, but it's such a good one.

It bears repeating. If you love life, don't waste time. For time is what life is made up of. Be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some. some more insight as we welcome Becky Lynch back to the show. We'll see on Thursday.

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