Insight with Chris Van Vliet - EC3 On His WWE Run, Retiring Tyrus, Being NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

EC3 (@therealec3) is a professional wrestler and the current NWA Worlds Heavyweight Champion. He is also known for his time in WWE and TNA. He sits down with Chris Van Vliet at Blizzard Brawl in Milwaukee, WI to talk about winning the NWA Worlds Heavyweight Championship, retiring Tyrus, working with Billy Corgan in NWA, his relationship with Dixie Carter, would he want to return to WWE, the status of Control Your Narrative and much more! Quote I'm thinking about: “There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.” - Albert Einstein Sponsors: BETTERHELP: Get 10% off your first month with the code INSIGHT at http://betterhelp.com/insight MUDWTR: Get 15% off with the code CVV15 at http://mudwtr.com/cvv MAGIC SPOON: Get $5 off with the code CVV at http://magicspoon.com/cvv ROCKET MONEY: Join Rocket Money today and experience financial freedom: https://rocketmoney.com/cvv FITBOD: Get 25% off when you use the code INSIGHT at http://fitbod.me/INSIGHT MYBOOKIE: Bet on WWE! Get up to $200 cash bonus when you use the code CVV and sign up at http://mybookie.ag BLUECHEW: Use the code CVV to get your first month of BlueChew for FREE at http://bluechew.com GHOSTBED: Get 40% of your purchase with the code CVV at http://ghostbed.com/cvv MIRACLE MADE: Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to http://TryMiracle.com/CVV and use the code CVV to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF PLUNGE: Get $150 off your Plunge with the coupon code CVV150 at http://plunge.com BONCHARGE: Go to http://boncharge.com/CVV and use coupon code CVV to save 25% For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://podcast.chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests.  Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are go. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van, Blin. Here we go. Welcome back to another one here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for being with us.

And thank you for making Insight one of the top wrestling podcasts on the entire planet. It's because you come back each and every week. Hit that follow button right now. I've been nice about it for the last two months. But hit that follow button right now with a big,

old superplex so you don't miss out on any upcoming episodes. And more importantly, to show your support for insight. If you've ever enjoyed any interview that we've ever done in the show, the very least you could do is hit follow. It really is the absolute least that you could do. I mean, it'd be great if you checked out the sponsors that we have on the show, maybe buy their products or services, or at least look into them using the code CVV. That costs money, though. I get it. hitting follow totally free and very very very helpful for us so i appreciate that thank you in advance for that ecc3 and cvv he's the current n wa world's heavyweight champion and look if you're only familiar with ec3 from his time in w ewee or you're only familiar with ec3 from his time in tna where he

was the two-time TNI World Heavyweight Champion. He's a totally different person now, a totally different wrestler as well. Yes, we talk about Control Your Narrative. Yes, we talk about Dixie Carter. Yes, we talk about Dean Ambrose making that joke about where's EC1 and EC2. Yes, we talk about how absolutely shredded EC3 is now. He's like painfully shredded. It's very, very impressive.

and the way that he talks about his diet and nutrition and workouts, it's like, it's like on a scientific level. I love it. And go back into the way back machine on YouTube and you can check out the workout that I did with EC3. My goodness, he put me through it. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Share it out and tag us so we can share it as well. He's at the real EC3. I'm at Chris Van Fleet. Here we go. Enjoy this conversation with E C3. Oh, it's been a while. It's been some time.

You didn't have those the last time I saw you. Neither. I did not have this nice, lovely gray wool fathers and sun's shirt. I did not have this OVW National Championship

and I did not have the World's Heavyweight Championship, but here I am. You didn't have the hair either. No, I didn't. Last time I saw you, you were a goatee and shaved head guy. Yeah, we were doing the gym, right?

Yeah, we did the gym stuff. We did the interview. you and then the gym. Dude, yeah. And I was like, back to back. And you're like, you got to go away for a while. And I'm like, yeah, you're probably right. You're like, can we do another one?

I'm like, we can. But like, why? Nobody can. We can. And, you know, people will see it. But I prefer, and this is a thing about life, delayed gratification. So I'm glad we are here now in this moment. Our fates have a line once again.

Lovely Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We're here for Blizzard Brawl. We have a big show tonight. I'm defending the World Heavyweight. championship against Matt Cardona. And we just have so much to chat about. Last night, I had a wonderful show. NWA Exodus.

It's a little promotion I'm running in Cleveland, NWA affiliate territory. So I was rolling around in the dirt and the mud. I was in some thumbtacks. And it's a kid-friendly show. But I had a street fight with one of my former protege's fodder. I bring this up because in three shows, what we've done, I can't be more proud of the people. and the team I've assembled and what we are building.

And like none of the contents really available because I want to save it and like kind of launch it with the strategy. But what we're doing, I want to create the thing that is like the place for people to be discovered. That was all these is the idea was CYN. Creating a platform. CYN should have never been a promotion. But Exodus with the NWA, a platform for like who's next. And what's cool about that is I get to pick them. Where did you go from being just like, I want to have matches.

I want to be a wrestler too. I want to be part of something that's bigger. I mean, even in the backyard days, I was writing cards in my little notebook. What was your backyard wrestling name? I was a backyard wrestler too. Okay. It was a sexual deviant. Good start, right?

But then I just shortened it to the deviant for branding soon. Oh, that was the whole name. That wasn't just a moniker? Yeah. Yeah. And then. And then I'm like, well, should I add a name to it? And then, you know, when I got to the Indies, I didn't know what to, like, I'll be like, Mike Dodis sucks.

I'll be like, rip thorn sucks. I'll be like, no, I'll just be the deviant. And then I'll just add my name, Mike Lutter. And it was whatever. But hey, it got me to start. Cleveland Indies, you were there, AIW back in the day, right? I worked for Prime Wrestling Ohio for a little while, too. Yeah.

Yeah. I was Chris Sharp as an independent, or a backyard wrestler. Not bad, right? No, it is because you're sharp. Thank you. Sharp talking, sharp walking, sharp dressing. Sharp promo. Feel like you've got a contender now.

That look like that NBA World's heavyweight championship. I do. Does it weigh 10 pounds? Ways 10 pounds. 0.8 ounces. As I said, off air, I measured it on my handy little scale. You know what I mean? Your food scale.

Right, yes, of course. You weigh all your food. Yes. So you're saying it's 10 pounds and not quite one ounce? 0.8. I'm sorry, so that's 10 pounds, 10 pounds, 8 ounces? Yes, 10 and a half pounds. Thank you.

My cognition is off today, I apologize. You drove all night, right? Yeah. It's a mess. This could get real bad. I can't wait. You haven't taken one sip of your coffee. Like, I need the coffee or this can't happen.

So at least a little bit of coffee. He's going to like slurp it up here for the ASMR people that are going to be listening. What happened to your left hand? It looks very. Oh, I'm a jangled mess. between my left tan and my left foot. I don't... Oh, that's just a bad spray tan.

Oh. That's not... That's... What bloody orifice is showing? No, yes, it's a bad spray tan. So you're living back in Cleveland now. Yeah, I moved back to Cleveland, Ohio, from Florida. I do not like Orlando.

Loved Tampa. Love St. Pete. Orlando was hell on earth. You could have moved to Tampa or St. Pete? I could have. I have family in Ohio. And, uh, while my family is still healthy and, you know, young and nothing's wrong.

Like, the family's great. I've been gone for so long, like, and I realize those are the people I need the most. So wanted to be with them, you know. The interesting thing is you said you moved in May, right? Yeah. So you moved to the best possible time. Absolutely. Winter's done.

Life's good. Now that I live in California and I lived in Florida before, the thing that I miss about the Midwest and a colder climate is how much they take. advantage of warm weather. You really... It's insane. Because in May, I'm like, this is normal. Actually, it's better because, you know, Florida's super hot.

But when October hit and I walked outside and went, why? What? But then here's how I tried to validate it because everyone's all under like, you know, the cold plunge and being cold. I'm like, well, if I just live in the cold, I'm constantly in a cold plunge, right? There is like a concept, an idea that I firmly believe in about being uncomfortable. Yeah. Like, you have to be uncomfortable.

You have to suffer to succeed. And so I've actually started making sure I put myself in situations that will be kind of uncomfortable or I don't want to. For example, our interview, I'm super uncomfortable right now. No. But like in a social setting and conversations, like meeting with like, what would make me just, you know, feel awkward so I can get out of it or at least challenge myself to enjoy? it. So I do do that. So yeah. Uncomfortable is comforting.

How long did you play with the idea of, am I going to move back to Cleveland? I'm going to stay here? Am I going to move somewhere else in Florida? A few months, really. And then it was probably, I was like, I love Tampa. I should go back.

Yeah. But kind of an opportunity came about that, of course, did not work out as things tend to not work out when you do business with people that are not like-minded or driven or hardworking, whereas I had a facility available to start the wrestling school. I always wanted to start.

You know, it's not just a wrestling school, but like a life academy, you know, like the Zoolander, children for, center for children, they can't read good. It has to be at least three times bigger than that. Yeah. It's a school for aunts? We had, yeah, like, so wanting to create that kind of opportunity came where we'd had the facility to not only,

I run the school, but also run the shows. And we started it, the CYN cooperative, and I had a good little first class going. And we're teaching kind of higher end. Like, I didn't want to take on beginners yet. It was more like, experienced people that need the tools and the facets to get to the next level.

A finishing school. In a sense. A finishing school, I consider, like, getting your master's. I'd say this is more of a college. Okay. Because I was going to develop the master's program. In fact, I might be developing one for an online, consumption that maybe we can talk about, or I will tell you about when it comes out.

It's close. Anyways, whatever. I'm a terrible salesman, but I'm a genius. You certainly think on a different level. Yeah. And I feel like with control your narrative, that won a lot of people over, and I feel like it also alienated a lot of people. It did. It certainly did.

And I think, too, first off, what is a professional wrestler's number one job? this is an Al Snow question, so I don't know if he said it on your interview, but to get attention, right? So getting attention. And like, yeah, there's good attention and there's bad attention. It received bad intention,

but the bad attention was all based on frivolous lies and people trying to sabotage something before it even started. Because in theory, we did make some strong waves and provided something unique where once you become a threat in the industry, you are sought to be destroyed before you grow. I think that people were like, what do you mean you're banning moves?

Like, that was a big thing. It is still the most genius concept I have. Because if you've, like, on the surface, oh, my, you know, you're overreacting to something where you don't understand or haven't seen the context develop. It's probably my fault you don't understand because the content wasn't readily available. But I banned the super kick, suicide, suicide dive, suicide to pay. and the Canadian Destroyer. And the reasons were because those moves are so cool, but they're so overdone, they've lost their meaning.

So if you watch our CYN show in Dallas, we had this big kind of multi-man match where somebody who does a super kick was out of position or thought about it, couldn't do it, something happens, their instincts kick in. They hit the super kick, boom, nail somebody, he's out. that dude gets disqualified. So as he's getting thrown out of the building,

another guy comes in, pins him because the super kick was so effective, it left that man devastated. So it wasn't like to hate superkicks. It's just we're doing them so much. They have so much value if we do them right. Same thing with the suicide to pay. Why did I do that?

We had a really good reel where I went over every move you were allowed to do. You just can't do this one. right? Yeah. You can go through the top rope. You can go over the top rope. You can go through the bottom rope.

You can do a moonsaw. You can do a front flip. You can do a quadru-braida. You can do a lion saw. You can do a backflip off the top rope. You can do a shooting star off the top rope. You can do whatever you want. Just don't go flying through the middle rope.

But then the idea of that, too, was I had somebody go for it. They missed and they got stretched out of the building. Because it's so devastating that they didn't hit it. That was the point. And then as far as a Canadian destroyer, that was all me leading up to getting a Canadian destroyer from Ricky Morton and getting pinned by his son. That was my idea.

So that's why I banned them for long-term storytelling, which all these fans claim they want. We want long-term stories. We want context. You have to let it develop sometimes. If I got to ruffle a few feathers to get there, so be it. I feel like when you say,

I'm controlling my narrative, and then you go to NWA, people go, well, is that within your narrative? I thought you were controlling your narrative. Now another company is going to control your narrative. Are they, though? Mm, are they? NWAs provided me the freedom to control my narrative,

and here I sit as the NWA World's Heavyweight Champion narrative controlled, which is another thing I'll get online, you know, posting about NWA, well, how does control your narrative going? Yeah. Well, I mean, I controlled my narrative. I became a World Heavyweight champion. I'm, you know, a sexual stud. I'm physically perfect.

I'm mentally acute. I'm super happy. I'm doing well financially. It worked out pretty well. Thank you for asking. like controlling your narrative too do the concept tell your story

that was the concept and that was a story for each and every talent that wanted to come there those that need to be discovered those that want to be reinvented I'm giving you a platform to tell your story and the whole thing started because when I would be in WWE or even Impact TNA

Ring of Honor like we're looking at the camera and when the red light would come on people would play what they think they should be. Cut, you have a conversation with them. Dude, their stories amazing. They're super intriguing people. They've had these ups and these downs in life. And I'm like, if you can tell that to the world,

we're all becoming stars because people can resonate with your truth and reality where as opposed you think you have to do something, you don't. Like control your narrative was a test to be an individual, and self-realized, self-actualized performer. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. A common misconception about relationships

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The Royal Rumble is just around the corner and as of this moment, the odds on favorites to win the Men's Royal Rumble are Cody Rhodes and CM Punk. But who do you think is going to win? Put your money where your mouth is at MyBooky. Yes, you can bet on WWEPLEs at MyBooky.ag. And of course you can bet on everything else there.

the NFL, boxing, UFC, you can even bet on politics or your favorite TV shows there. When you sign up, use my code CVV, number one, so they know that I'm the one who sent you there to bet on WWPLEs. Number two, and more importantly, you'll get a sweet cash bonus when you sign up with my code CVV and make your first deposit. That's at mybooky.orgie.ag. The link is down there in the show notes. bet anything, anytime, anywhere, only my bookie. When Braun-Strauman went back to WWE, people were like, I thought he was controlling his narrative. Yeah, what happened?

He controlled his narrative into a nice contract, apparently. So, no, yeah, too. And you start something new, like, that was, the growth seemed to come. Because we started, well, I started, as sort of an off-kiltered kind of way, while I'm still working with Ring of Honor at the time and then with NWA, but like it was always off-brand kind of, I would call it,

subsidiary content to the wrestling lore. You know, whatever's happening within wrestling. This is off the side. It's supplemental material. It's shadow of empires to the Star Wars trilogy. That nerd reference got anybody. But like, then the growth happens.

You attach a fairly big name to it. There's some intrigue. Next thing you know, there's quote television and there's quote agents involved. There's quote people are like see a financial end game where a lot of things are offered. But at the end of the day, the foundation is me and my MacBook at a coffee shop. And I'm like, there's a lot to do and I need help doing it. And so when you bring on talent too that's come from the system of the WWE, their job is to perform.

Their job is to be their character. Their job is to be, have the itinerary somebody gives them to do this, this, and this. And so when you're starting something new, you have to do everything. And it's hard. So at the same time, if you're going to walk back into guaranteed money, it's totally fine with that. I'm like, you have to go back. He's recovering from an injury right now? Yeah, I think he hurt his neck, right?

Yeah. He'll be back. I think so. W.W.B.'s hot right now, too. Wrestling in general is hot right now. Is it? Isn't it? I don't know.

Yes and no. Are you saying WWE is hot, period, and wrestling might not be hot? I'm trying to figure out because when you look at, it seems like the television product has waning interest based on ratings. Ratings are waning, though. When we could have an entire discussion about how nobody watches television the way they used to watch television. I was having a conversation with another really good friend of mine like you. His name's John Sina, and we were talking about this, just like this without the cameras. And he had a Guinness in his hand.

Just like this. Yeah, JC, I call him. But I'm like trying to like understand the concept more so I can, you know, I'm learning the business. And yeah, it seems like well, WW has become content creation. So while the number has merit and meaning, it's not nearly what it used to be. So in that theory, too, you watch Survivor series. Like everyone's talking about it, right? Yeah.

So that is hot. But then is that hot and is trickling down to an AEW? to an impact to an NWA, or is there too much saturation? Are we that hot? Are we hot within our bubble, in our niche? That, for sure. I agree with that. Are we hot with a mainstream?

I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out. And I think we cater so much to a niche, which you should give the fans of what they want, to an extent that we're maybe missing how to reach a mainstream, too. So I think we could be hotter. I think the mainstream, though, is so different. for now.

True. Like I think the mainstream, like, we went from broadcasting where if it was 20 years ago and we were hanging out, we just turned on the TV and we would channel surf until we found something on TV

that we didn't hate. And we go, I guess we'll watch that for the next 29 minutes. And then, too, at the same time, you would actually kind of watch it. But now we guide 8,000 choices.

Oh, here's all the rocks on from 1997. I'll put that on and play on my phone. Yeah. And I'll put that on and play on my phone. Yeah. And I'll put it on halfway through. Yeah. Yeah.

Carla was the prom queen. I'm sorry, that's in the cage. Carla was the prom queen. Now, if we were hanging out, we'd go, hey, did you see that match from the other day? Or did you see that clip from whatever? And we would watch YouTube. Oh, stream it up, yeah. Right.

True. I think the only thing that's really benefiting right now from live television is live sports. I would agree. That's really, yeah. I think networks want to get back into that. Does wrestling fit as a live sport, though, or does it fit as an entertainment genre that you don't need? It is live programming, that's for sure. Right.

But to say that ratings are down is like to say that people aren't sending as many faxes. So people aren't sending as many faxes. Should we just assume they're not communicating as much? No, television ratings are down, but YouTube views are way up. TikTok views are way up. Instagram views are way up. WWE reported, what was it, 71 million views. Oh, yeah.

For the CM Punk return in 24 hours. Yeah, and this would... Oh, but ratings are down. That's what, you know, like JC said, like, we're making more money than ever. Do we really call him JC? Do you really call him that? Yeah, I call him and Jesus Christ J.C. I also call Julius Caesar JC.

Have we called you to E.C? Yeah. What do people call you in real life? It seems EC more. Yeah. Well, it's weird. Like, if you call me Mike, first, I hate Mike. Michael.

Michael's cool. Michael's an archangel. Michael's a protector of God. Michael has a sweet sword like I do. I have two sweet swords. Or Mike's like, hi, I'm Mike. It sucks. And then you hear people like, you get that weird, like, it's not a boundary.

But relationships with people that you're cool with and you're friendly with, are they really your friends? And you hear, hey, Mike, you're like, what did you say? It shouldn't bother. But like, what should I call you? I'm like, call me EC, call me three, call me E.C. Call me E.C.3. Call me Michael. Just don't call me Mike. Can we call you Ethan?

Yeah, I get Ethan every now and then. Which is funny too because people think it's my real name. Like, may I speak to Ethan, please? Sure. How's your aunt Dixie? Awesome. Do you actually keep in touch with that? Yeah, really?

I probably text her once a month. We have a little exchange. Could you get her on the show? That'd be fantastic. I'm trying, you know, it was pulling teeth and get her on that OVW. guest spot we did. That was cool. That was awesome. Al Snow and I were helping her produce that because she was filming it at home and like it was just like old times where micro managing and analyzing things that don't matter. It's like all you have to do is just show up and say hi.

Yeah. And just have fun with it. It's like, I don't know. Is this the right tone? I don't want people think this. And just just have fun. That's what this shit is supposed to be. And I think that's what she never really got to experience because she jumps into the business end, the deep end, Like, you know, the competitive shark-filled waters of the professional wrestling world where a lot of people are, you know, utilizing her and probably manipulating her and trying to get money and this and that. Where I don't know if she ever just had to have fun. She got to have that fun that this is the reason we do this.

I remember she was walking around on the floor of a TNA show that I went to with a fan years ago. And she was so kind. Nice. So nice. She took a photo with 700 people. Yeah. Yeah. It was so cool to see that.

She's absolute sweetheart. And it kind of like, you know, the difference between a character on TV where she's a bad guy, I guess, to the human that she really is. You know, internet again, hindsight 20-20, people's opinion, like, just the things people would say. I'm like, this is one of the nicest people I've ever met. You know what I mean? The funny thing about wrestling is people want to attach a meeting to something like immediately as it happens. And I feel like sometimes you can't really know the true scope of something until you're a day removed, a week removed, a month, maybe even a decade removed.

It's like the news. You have to give three days for facts to unfold before we can probably generate even close to a reasonable opinion based on misinformation and things like that. Hell, people thought I was funded by the My Pillow guy. Do you remember that? The Mike Lindell, the My Pillow guy? I mean Well, were you? No.

If I was, we would be swimming in pillow money. That guy has a lot of money. He does really well enough to, you know, follow his other crazy ambitions, right? I also feel like people online just don't have their own opinion. I feel like people will see something.

Immediately jump to the comments and go, oh, that one lines up with how I feel. Yep, that's the one. I agree with that. And it's unfortunate because finding your own opinion is like the most. freedom you can have as a person. You dictate how you think and feel in anything. And I totally agree with that. And sometimes I'll catch myself. Like there's a news story and I'm like, well, who do I

usually agree with? That's what I think. Like, no, I don't know that. Hold on. Let me, let me, if I really care to, let me look at this from both perspectives. And it's weird that we live in a time now where it's like something happens, a newsworthy story. And it's like, well, which side are you on? Where do you sit here? It's like, well, let me, let me collect all the facts here. Let me figure this out. I probably sit somewhere in the middle, but one side's going to tell me I'm this because I'm not on that side.

And the other side is it telling me on this because I'm not on that side. I just want my coffee, man. It's right here. It's decaf. I made the wrong one. Are you serious? No. Can you taste the difference?

Yeah. No way. You had a fantastic introduction when you won this championship. I wrote it down because it was so good. descending from the mountain of the highest level of the psychic plane. He is the vision of the future foretold. He is the 0.01%. He is the over man because he's over, man.

That's pretty fantastic. Dude, when we finally get on TV and that makes TV, arenas will be chanting over, man. No, they'll be saying the whole thing. I hope so. I kind of switch it up a little bit too. What is it now? I wrote this word for work.

Yeah, that was the intro. Yeah. I was like, do I really handle a hail from this mountain? So I said, now hailing from home based Cleveland, Ohio. I switched that up. And then the 0.01%. I think I just went 0.1%. I thought there was too many numericals.

So, you know, I was the top 1%, but I've upgraded. Now I'm the top 0.1%. Like, how do you get there? You can give you the open. So you went from the 0.1%. 1% to now just the 0.1%. Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry. It sucks. That's like a, that's 10%

I'm sorry, it's 10 times down. I didn't even think about it like that. Wow. I'm not a math major. That's, you're 10 times worse now. Well, geez. And he's the over man. But then the question is he's the overman. So the guys go, why? Because he's over.

Man. What is over man? Me. You see three? How'd you come up with us? I, the, Nietzsche in psychology. The Uber Mench, the original origins of Superman, was like, you know, by Friedrich Nietz. And I'll probably say it wrong,

and people are going to yell at me online. But like, the OG Superman, so I'm like, I want to, who I think I am, who I really am is like, I'm very confident, I would say. I'm not very modest because I'm sick of it. So I feel like I am a real-life Superman. I look like Superman I talk like Superman

I fly through the ear like Superman I don't know if you're Batman actually You're right actually I do in Batman's weird I'm not wearing hockey pads That's my favorite line So where to meet That's my favorite one I'm like Superman though

I don't know if you notice I've suicide dive now again Just to prove people I hear they're illegal No Not not in the NWA They're sanctioned in the NDA So, you know, look, act, fly like Superman.

But in reality, I'm probably like Homelander. I'm a psychopath. You know, I'm a closet, you know, narcissist. I'm insane. And I want people to just explode with my red laser eyes. So I was thinking, what would a guy who thinks he's Superman, but does actually Homelander be? Well, he'd be over, man. Yeah.

And then you were talking about making the plates of the St. Correct. Yeah. The St. W.A. World's Heavyweight Championship. So I really want them a little. makeover. In theory, I don't know, like, I don't believe in babyface and heel.

Maybe to an extent you have your protagonist and antagonist. I'm sort of treated like a protagonist within the NWA confines. Yeah. Though the antagonist in the OVW, but regardless, I'm just being me. But I did want to change the title. Two reasons. One, NWA Exodus,

the NWA is going to fund our first champion. It's going to be the Midwest heavyweight champion. So Corgan and I, through a great designer, came up with an idea for the title. And dude, it's going to be the best title. It's so cool. I love it. So I was like, well, if I'm going to bestow a championship upon somebody, if I get to handpick, like I have 12 guys in a tournament, I get to handpick 12 guys to compete for this title.

And one day, whoever is going to be the first, this special unique title that will be sanctioned by the NWA. I mean, that has some meaning to it. mine should look better. That's prestigious. It is. And then it's going to be, like, I'm very into the history and I'm very classic, but at the same time,

it's what I think about wrestling and, you know, the styles of it. What works in the past works for a reason. Let's build off the foundations that are proven true, and then we evolve it with the other new, fun stuff. But,

so this title would remain the same. I would probably brown leather strap it. Okay. So we're going kind of roaming in, perhaps. And then as a side plates, I have the great empires of the past. So we'll have Macedonia. We have Sparta. I'm going to have Rome.

And then I'll probably put Imperial French in there. I don't know. I'm a big Napoleon fan, even though I heard the movie is terrible. Ah, you haven't seen it yet? No. Yeah. I was going to go opening day, but then I saw opinions online of people who I usually align with. And they, he's a cuck to Josephine was the first thing.

I'm like, I knew it. And then they kind of like, you know, the, the dude was very intelligent. Yeah, yeah. Polianic law. And, I mean, Rosetta Stone, we can transcribe Egyptian language because of him, like in water systems and all these things he created. The way he led, like he was a true leader, regardless of you agree.

I don't know. He wasn't really that, I guess, controversial. But the movie just kind of glosses over and kind of makes him look like, I'm a crazy tyrant who's drunk on power. This is somebody else's opinion. Correct. I did not see it. Have you seen the Iron Claw?

No. I heard him. I should. Yeah. With the profession that you're in, you absolutely should. I saw it at the world premiere. Oh, is that out of Eric's movie? No, it's not yet.

Okay. It'll be out December 22nd. It's funny, you know, MJF's in it, right? Yes. That's cool. Good for him. He's in one scene. That's one more than me.

Yeah. But I just read for, like, it's always been another goal of mine to be in, like, the shittiest movie possible. Like, I just want to be in the worst possible movie. Like, just. Like the room? Have you seen the room? Yeah, sort of, I wouldn't say that bad, but I'd say, like, like, deliverance on meth. I don't know.

Right. So I read for this part, and, like, it has wrestling origins, but it's a horror story. And the guy's like, oh, yeah, then this is going to be like. deliverance you're kind of the Bert Reynolds I'm like oh okay sign me up and then if I do this right it could be terrible just how I want it so is that happening I believe so okay start in February yeah horror movie 1980s wrestlers get lost in the wrong part of town they go they have a show in the wrong part of town things get things get a little hazy and then uh you know the city's out to get them so let's see what happens how much do you think you being over in a baby face in NWA has to do

with the fact that you defeated Tyrus for this. Oh, probably huge. People really didn't like Tyrus. Now, I grew this industry with him, so we're, you know, very close. And at the end of the day, in the concept of what we do as a business, he did me a huge favor. You know what I mean? Passing that torch, his career, bestowing me to be the one to take him out,

which one day I will bestow upon somebody, and that's how we grow the business. And we try to leave it better than when we found it. But yeah, I mean, partly because he's in a political atmosphere, so he's going to alienate 50% of people. And partly because, like, you know, he's been around for a while. People don't like big men. In reality, he's a huge.

He's a huge. He's dominating figure. And I really, that match, too, was one of my favorites. By no means is it a, quote, good wrestling match. But what I wanted it to be was a Greek tragedy. and I think I accomplished that. So I owe him a lot, and that probably does help why I'm a protagonist

because I defeated him, but also I'm pretty good, too. There was, like, actual hate towards him as the wrestling character. Yeah. And then there was, like, people genuinely just did not, do not like Tyrus, and you put that together,

and then he becomes his mega heel. Yeah. So then on the other side of that, you know, we have no choice but to cheer for you. Perfect. By default. The best baby face you can be. You know, it's funny, too, because he does, like, his little live stand-up shows.

And those sell out. Yeah. So he's very popular. Right. He has, I'm so proud of him, too. He has two books, not one, two. And, like, we were always talking about books when we were on the road together. And I'm like, this guy beat me to writing not one but two.

Good for him. Well, why aren't you writing a book then? I have no excuse other than I come and go with it. and then I don't know where to go. Do you read a lot? I do not read enough, but I do read a lot, I would say. What are you reading right out? What am I reading right?

The Prince, McAvilly. Oh, wow. But I try to make sure I read in the morning. Like, if I get 10 pages in, at least I feel like I've accomplished it. But I think when my evening ends, I can add more. But instead, I kind of just find myself in the endless loop of, like, catching up on bullshit. If you could read 10 pages a day, you read it. a book in a month.

Yeah. I think about that all the time. I'm reading Be Useful right now. Arnold's book. Okay. It is fantastic. He's a motivating fellow. He really is.

In fact, that's what Chapter 1's all about. He's like, I didn't realize how much people were aligning with that. So let's write a book about it. That's cool. Do you feel like he had a ghost writer? Probably. Yeah, yeah.

Tyrus didn't. Wow. He didn't. He said, Wow. He started with a ghostwriter and everything he got back was like his voice was completely gone. And then he,

something, something. He's like, you know, I'm just going to do this myself. Wow. Yeah, so that's pretty cool. With TNA coming back, you think it's actually going to be the TNA that you were in or the TNA that existed before? I don't know.

I think they'd probably harken back to even before I was there. I was there in TNA, but it was kind of in a impacty transition. Yeah, you weren't the six-sided. We brought it back, but when we came in, it was a four-sided. But I was coming in as a new guy when majority of the TNA people were on their way out, too.

I feel like people look at TNA's prime being like 06 to 09, somewhere around there. Dude, they had some, you watched back, there was some dope stuff. Oh, 5 to 09, maybe? No. Like, and it seemed, though, back then, like, history has treated it very well. Yes. Which it tends to, because when you read about it back then, there was always issues and complaints about it, it seemed. And now it's like, oh, let's harken back to the old days. So what, you can bitch about that too?

And I don't know. Like, you change the name is the presentation going to change? Like what necessarily needs to change? Like I said, based in nostalgia, having the context to, like, build that foundation from originally and then evolving into the future. Like, you can't repeat the past. Trust me, I've tried with a couple relationships. But, like, you have to evolve for the future.

So we'll see what they do. Hopefully it works out. Would you go back there? I would definitely take this NWA championship there, for sure. Would you go back to WWE? With the NWA championship, I would. Would I go back to WWE too? I'm so thoroughly content with building what we're building right now.

I'm very on board. And I feel very much, I could be a gear in a really, like the strongest machine possible. Or I can sink or swim being a catalyst to build something for the future. And so it's, you know, how much are they paying? No, but I'm really what we're doing. I believe in what we're doing. I believe in WPC. They put me in a great position, not just a champion,

but sort of like, I don't know, I guess I'm a locker room leader and things like that. And being able to help cultivate the future intrigues me greatly, especially because I'm still in my prime and I can beat everybody. So, yeah, that's cool. Do you think about how much longer you could do this for? I'm going to hold the title for three years and 33 days. I think we're about five months in now. Why is that such a specific number?

The three, well, it's the number of a master builder, which is what I am. Okay, so three years, 65 days, let me get my phone here. Three years, yeah, three years, 33 days. Three years and 33 days. Yes. So 365 plus, 365 plus, 365 plus. 33. 1,128 days.

It's a good run. The heck of a run. Hell of a run. Okay. And then what? I would imagine whomever defeated me, whoever thwarted me finally, whoever put me down for good, I would leave the ring, sort of like one of the JCs laid out and just carried away and never be seen again. One of the J.C.

Yeah. Could be John Cina, could be Julius Caesar. Could be. Well, Julius Caesar would stab. I'll probably get stabbed too. I'm big into, you know, Caesar history. So I'm sure I'll do an a two to somebody. But yeah, I'd imagine off the cross.

Are you obsessed with the Roman Empire? You know, that was a thing, right? I was before it was cool. Still I am. Yeah. But those memes popping up was very. I couldn't relate. Really?

I did not thought about the Roman Empire once, ever. I don't know, maybe we didn't study it in schools in Canada. Maybe not. But, like, yeah, it was awesome. If I were to ask you if you can go back in time and live in any historical period where you'd be decently well off, like you're not like a peasant or a serf or a slave, thank God. You're doing all right.

You're in a good position in one point in history. I would probably go Roman Empire. Okay. Wow. What about you? Am I taking all the knowledge that I currently have? Good question. Because if that's the case, I'm probably not going that far back.

Yeah. I would say, yeah, because you can't bet on sports. I get it. You would have... Can't use my back to the future. Sports Alman. You'd have great cognition of the present, but you would not know the future. I feel like I like modern plumbing too much to like...

Like, there's a lot of modern things that I feel like would be difficult to give up. And I'm not even talking about televisions or iPhones. Right. I'm talking about, like, indoor plumbing. Right. Or like refrigeration. A heater? Yeah.

Man. You live in Cleveland. Why? How did people live without? This is what I'm talking about. Right. So I feel like I wouldn't go that far back. But I feel like the climate in Rome was good. Sure.

Yeah, okay. I could do that. It's like I said, Norway, you know. Yeah. We go live in an igloo. I can't remember what movie it was. I interviewed somebody for a movie, and it was set like 200 years ago,

and I said, what's the one modern amenity that you miss the most? I'm sure you're going to expect me to say, like, my phone, but I think it's refrigeration. I'm like, oh, yeah. Dude, it, I mean, you open it up. It's all there.

It's right there. It's there. Man, and I kind of want a hot, though. Oh, well, beep, beep, beep. Look at that. Yeah. Nuclear waves. Yeah.

I'm satiated. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Ohio gets a lot of hate online. Like, it became, like, cool to hate on Ohio. Shithead, Steve was really meaming hard on Ohio. Yeah, that Instagram account. Yeah.

I laughed at him. I lived in Ohio for five years. That was my first American city I lived in. It was Cleveland. Really? Yeah. One of a nightmare. Cleveland's cool.

I love Cleveland. I love being from there. This is what I would say. Where are you from? Cleveland. Did you like it? Well, I love being from there, but I love that I'm not there. Now I'm back.

But it is a cool city. Are you in actual Cleveland? I'm in a suburb. Yeah. You can tell me off camera. Yeah. Is it Parma? No.

That's where the mess is from. Yeah. It is. Mrs. Dad was at one of my shows. George. Yeah. Mr. Hero. Yeah, Ohio became the butt of a lot of jokes.

Still is. I wonder why that is. Yeah, it's like. Nice teeth. You look like you're from Ohio. What? We have dental high. Like, do they, you drove through Indiana yesterday.

I think Ohio's better than that. Hey. Drove through Illinois. I get it. Chicago. Big City. Illinois. Illinois.

The Iliadenoid. I was in Illinois last week and I was in Chicago. It was funny how I was talking to some of my friends that lived there. I'm like, oh, like, how long have you lived in Illinois? And they're like, oh, I've lived in Chicago for so long. I'm like, it's funny. You won't even associate it. Right.

You won't even act like you're from Illinois. You're from Chicago. Yeah. That was fascinating. It's its own little country, I guess. Yeah. Hey, you know, it's cool? Oklahoma.

Okay. Ah, I didn't mean to do that. Hey, oh, no, I went over. With AJ, right? Yeah, so they got a lovely... They have a lovely place with a little guest house, so they let me go there to cool my jets when my head's going to explode. But, you know, you got the dump.

Man, horses running around. The sun's out. You see the sunset. You see it go down. It was lovely. He sent me a video because I think we're thinking about leaving California now that we have a little one. it's like, I don't know where the move's going to be, too. And he sent me a video and he's like, well, this is what I got here.

And I probably paid a fraction of what you paid for your house. Very reasonably priced considering. Yeah. He lives like a game. Yeah, it's a huge, beautiful house. It is. Maybe you've got to move to OK. OK, C.

I think about it. Depends where mom and dad want to go. You know, what's good about Cleveland right now is the Browns are tolerable. They're tolerable. But here's the thing. Good. But any time the Browns fans get that sense of, like, they feel it coming on where they can start talking shit. They drop the ball.

They lose. Like, they lost to Denver. Like, we beat Pittsburgh. We're going to the Super Bowl. Lose. Like, we won our first game. We're going to beat Pittsburgh. Lose.

Like, they just got to cool it. And they just got to take what comes and enjoy for what it is. Yeah. But the second we start talking, that's when it gets pulled away. Yeah. I think that's another thing with. Oh. Ohio hate. It's like Ohio State fans.

I like Ohio State. I'm from Ohio. If I had to root for a team, it would be Ohio State. But I've traveled the country, and I've seen Ohio State fans in public. I'm like, this is terrible. What do you mean? They're just obnoxious. And then sometimes they seem to get the favorable calls, which I enjoy because it's my team. But at the same time, like, you know, it's like I'd be watching, I'm not a Yankees fan,

but watching the Yankees get games handed to them, like, against the Indians, with the Guardians, excuse me. where I could see why fans would hate a Yankees fan because, like, well, you not only do you have the highest payroll, but you get all the calls, you know, so whatever. If it's in the script, right? Yeah. I believe in the script.

You believe the NFL scripted? I think it's manipulated, but I don't think you can, like, here's a psychopath, Flip. Like, Flip thinks there's magnets and balls to, like, so they, no, the physical, I don't know if he's, Serious because he's so weird. Are you? But no, yeah, he thinks, oh, there's a magnet in the rim.

That's why they can rig the NBA. Like, you're an idiot. Yeah, I don't know about that one. I know. Then don't get started on the flat earth with him. No, we won't go down that path with him. There was this Hennessy commercial. Okay?

You know how sometimes they would say, like, they'll hide the truth in plain sight? Yeah, yeah. I have no flat earth theories whatsoever. I believe you're round or something. spherical, whatever. Gravity's a real thing. Like, I understand why planes fly.

Like, I'm not crazy. But there's this Hennessy commercial where it's like Jacques Cousteau kind of looking guy. He's like, looks like he's going through the ocean. Yeah. But it's actually he's going through the, what's it called? The atmosphere. The word for it, though.

Terra, whatever. Oh, yeah. So, like, at the end of the commercial, he, like, flies through the Earth's flag. And one of my buddies is like, see, look, they're hiding in plain sight. Like a Hennessy commercial. You might be right, actually. Who knows at this point?

I feel like we should bring it back to wrestling here. You know. Yeah. It's probably what it's all about. It's what people are tuning in for. I feel like when you went into NWA, things started going right immediately. Which feels like in stark contrast from when you went into WWE. Right off the bat.

Nightmare. Yeah. It was downhill. The difference really kind of like, and this is a thing for young talent to think about, is W.W.B. Super controlled as it should be. Publicly traded company at the time, there's one man in charge. It's his vision. Like, you know, creative process, I always thought was broken and kind of, you know, a mess. But at the same time, it's not my job inside. My job is to execute what is given to me. hopefully I can have the ability to do it in a way that as a performer I'm pleased with that allows myself to benefit or quote get over at the same time but NWA like young talents

need to realize it's you don't have to worry about what people want you to do I'll do whatever you want this is a question or something a town will say to me when we're doing Exodus or things like that like I want you to tell me what you want to do so I can put you in the position to succeed at doing what you want to do. So in the W.A, I knew what I wanted to do. Yeah. Like, so it's very easy to get in there and then the boss see something. I don't have to micromanage or manipulate this.

Like, I'll just give the guidelines and then let him execute. And if it's good, great. If it's not, we'll fix it. So that was very beneficial. Secretly, though, physically, like, that's when I started, like, the weird neck injury, right? I had the atrophy in my right side. I've still never figured up.

So, like, it started really good. Then I was going through that. Fortunately, like, our TV was so filmed in bulk that, like, you can get away with, like, months going by where you're not seen. But, like, man, that was the hardest thing for me to deal with. Still is. It's still there. I don't get it. I feel like you're a lot leaner since I saw you last.

I'm shredded. You are very shredded. A lean guy, yeah. Yeah. To the point it hurts. What foods do you enjoy eating that you do? don't get to eat a lot. Oh, man.

Hmm. I'm in the, like, I'm in the search for the perfect burger. Okay. You know what I mean? Yeah. But I can eat fairly much anything if I do it in the right time and the right context. So when I have my strategic, I just wouldn't pick. So situation being, we're out to dinner and, like, someone got dessert, just have a bite.

No, I'm good. Yeah. And then they go, no, just have a bite. Like, no. Like, just have a bite. I don't want it. Here's why. Because that one little piece will send me on a tailspin where I'll be like, I can eat whatever I want.

I'm already lean. I'm going to have that. And then I'm going to get that and then I'm going to get that. Then I'm going to want to leave. And I'm going to go to the gas station. I'm going to get a big bag of checks mix. And I'm going to get a big thing of ice cream. I'm going to go home.

I'm going to eat that. Yeah. So, but if I time it right, okay, we're at the dump. Big leg day, trained hard, was on point. every meal for the week, that one meal, I strategically plan to satiate my needs. Yeah. So what I'll do, you know, usually,

turn off the lights, light a candle, maybe two, play some soft music, take whatever I'm getting. Like, I will not have these meals with humans. I'll do it by myself and I'll just enjoy it and I'll sit there and I'll... In the dark. Yeah. Eat to my gluttonous extent.

So I think... I could definitely be more lenient, though. I could probably have the piece of cake and just be like... You probably could. But I'm an addict. That's the problem. So I know that. Living in Cleveland may not be helpful to that.

No, but as long as I strategize, I'll be okay. There's something about, like, the cold weather and the grayness and all winter, you're just like, I can eat this. The comfort food. Yeah. Depression. I get it. Totally. I was not describing depression.

No, but it is, it comes with it. So, like, this sucks. man, if I just had like a full belly, yeah, yeah, I'd probably be a lot more comfortable. Yeah, right. But I eat enough, so I'm never like super starving. I, I church up, you know, the things I eat decently.

So it's not too bad. I was surprised when I worked with AJ how much I ate. Yeah, it was a lot. Tons. And I ate that much and I got shredded. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, too, that I'll do. And this takes a vast majority of my time.

But if I'm on the road, which is often, I make all of my food and I travel with it. So if I freeze, I'll freeze a bunch, but I have every meal, so there's no excuses. Like on the drive yesterday, hey, you want to get something to eat? I'm good. Yeah. You guys can.

Yeah. But like as long, I'm super, super, super macro and just like a psychopath about it. Yeah. And so, but that allows me the times where I want to do it. Yeah. To do it freely and enjoy it.

Yeah. Delayed gratification. It works in food. It works in relationships. It works in business. I want to go back to your time in WWE. A lot of people point to that Dean Ambrose promo, though. Where is EC1 and 2?

That's a good one. Do you feel like it hurt the momentum of your character? I didn't have any. I think it was a weird spot because Dean has been on top. Shield, awesome, loved, adored. Whether they're protagonists or antagonists, they're ingrained in the culture. also at the same time he's publicly announcing

I'm bucking the system I'm out of here and so also I love the dude but like when you have the freedom to like it doesn't matter what I do like he did like that promo was great because he's just feeling it

he's like when you don't give a shit sometimes it's when your work is the best so that wasn't scripted no that was scripted I think I believe so I just know that every time I'm going to speak I get cut off

so does that kill the momentum a bit unless we delivered something in the back end. So the match, we had a decent little match, it's a TV match. And I think I won, like, with a roll-up, as opposed to, I don't know, should I have just beat the dog shit out of him? Or, like, what would have made me keep the momentum, but then the momentum was killed the next week anyway, so it didn't matter. And I think partly the reason that was killed is because we were working the live events

together. So, Dean, John, and I, we would have these really good live event matches, you know, eight minutes, like, threw it on the card. They're solid little, you know, things.

Right place, right time. He's an antagonist. I'm a protagonist. But he's getting cheered and I'm getting booed. So in the middle of that match, I'm like, this is exactly where I want to be. Like, if I can garner sort of the I'm pushed as a baby face,

but people generally don't like me, that's Roman Sina level. I can get to that. Like, that's where I need to be because I'm a shit baby face. So, like, we're working these matches and I'm working as a baby face and my comeback's getting booed

and his, you know, he's getting cheered. And, like, I'd slip over and slip over and slip over. And the last night, because we're, A, really good professional wrestlers, B, tired of, like, always doing the same thing. We're in the middle of the match and they're really anti-mey and they're really for him.

I think he has me in the hold. He's like, do you just want to switch it up? I'm like, yeah. And so in the middle of the match, like, you know, I take over and now I'm playing kind of the bad guy. And I'm, you know, beating the dog shit on him. Now he's firing up and he's making a comeback. And we same finish, like, whatever, but like we went about it a different way. Yeah.

Apparently that got back to the office, to Vince, perhaps. I don't know for sure, but like when you buck the system, you're spitting in his face sometimes. So it's like a power play. So the next day on TV, momentum's cut. And then it's just no, nothing after that, right? Yeah. Just one. I mean, the point of what we do is to garner the reactions that people are like feeling and getting.

So like by doing that, I think that's the right move as a pro for a wrestling show without, you know, any context. It's a live about people there to have fun, cheer and boo and have to see a good show. But then at the end of the day, you know, wrong place, wrong time. A live event. Who cares? Right. I feel like those are so much more loose.

But then, too, is he like, well, I don't punish him, but I can't. So I got to punish him for it. Or is it just like, well, what an asshole. How dare you? Who do you think he is coming in here? You know, it could be anything. Or he looked at me wrong. Fuck him.

Okay. Like, you know, so that kind of, like, that would kill the momentum. I think, too, the ability to not speak. Like, how do you defend your? yourself short of beating somebody up, right? So there's a lot. It just didn't work. I'm not mad at it, though.

I mean, we've talked about this ad nauseum, but it just doesn't make sense to have you non-speak, especially with the great work you did in TNA. Yeah. Two-time world champion there. Two. Yeah. I'm a three-time world champion now.

That's cool, right? Yeah, unfortunately. But at the end of the day, did I have to go be uncomfortable? did I have to suffer? Did I have to struggle mentally, physically, because then I get a bunch of concussions? Did I have to go through all that to get to a point? We're now where I need to be.

So we look at it. I feel like maybe you were born in the wrong time. I always wonder if it was late 90s and Rockstar Spudanai, we were on Raw and Vince Russo was booking. Oh. How many stunners would have been taking? Oh, she.

Hundreds. And it would have been awesome, every one of them. Rockstar Spuddeny. in that time would have been like Spike Dudley. Yeah. He's the best. Yeah. Did we talk about everything?

I don't know. I don't know, did we? What did we not talk about? Well, we talked about Rome. We talked about flat earth. We talked about nutrition, diet. We talked about, we didn't talk about Tony Robbins. Do we want to know?

We sure we can. No, you're reading his book. I quote him frequently. He's got big old hands, huh? He's a big dude. Yeah. Do you know anything about Ostrostriostrong? Okay, it's some sort of bone density machines that you kind of got behind.

That I'll do sometimes. So shout out Assy and Strong Willoughby, proud sponsor, NWAXN. I do a lot of, like I do a lot of stuff like to try to. I need better recovery. That's what I need to work on. I have a cold plunge. Next time you're in California, you're welcome to come over and cold plunge with me. I do red light therapy as well.

I do red lights. I have a PMF pad. See, I need one of those. But you could just ground. You could just walk on the ground. Same thing. Yeah, but I'd rather just sit there and let the machine do the world. We do a lot of biohacking in our hands.

What else? I mean, I feel pretty good about the conversation. What else? I mean, what do people want to know? What are the kids talking about? We talked about the business. I thought we gave it a very fair assessment. I think we did as well.

Oh, people are going to go, man, you didn't talk about CM Punk? Yeah, I mean, cool. Punk's back. That's, I mean, I would have expected that. Really? Yeah. especially with the way it ended over there. Like, a guy like that's not going to go silently in the night.

And so he will get the last fuck you any way he can. It's an interesting situation to me because I think that if the AEW debut doesn't happen, then the WWE return doesn't happen. I 70% agree. But I think what he said in that promo, and I think it reigns true, is he did have to go away if he ever really wanted a main event of WrestleMania. Yeah, yeah. So that could very well happen now.

I think, too, with Vince kind of not as hands-on, I think that was a lot of the budding heads because they just, and I want to say they didn't see that. I don't know their personal relationship, but I think Vince had an interpretation of him and Phil has an interpretation of himself that didn't align. But I think Trips is way easier to collaborate with. And I think great creative is usually a great collaboration

between a talent, writer, or creator, or anything. So with that collaborating skills, I think there'll be a compromise where everybody wins. And it's probably going to do really good business. It is amazing to me that he can say all of the things that he said about that company. It's true. And they didn't really disparage him in any sort of way. They just didn't really talk about him. He says all of these terrible things.

And then they bring him back and all is forgiven, which I actually feel like could be like a great metaphor for life. It is life. And like a lot of things that I went through with a lot of people who didn't know a thing about me, lying about me, saying all these horrible. things threaten my life at times for no reason whatsoever. Like, I forgive you. But you have to forgive. You do.

You know, it doesn't mean you forget. But at the same time, you don't forgive people for them. You forgive them for yourself. So you can move on and you move forward. What's that phrase? It's not forgiving someone is like drinking poison. Yeah. Expecting them to get poisoned.

Right. Man, it reminds me of Romeo and Juliet. That's, I mean, That, when I heard it phrase that way, that changed everything for me. It's like, I am so angry and bitter about this other thing that that person's probably not even thinking about it at all. You're sitting there stewing about something. They're like on their phone playing candy cards.

They don't think about it at all. And all it takes is for you to just let go. Yeah. And realize that that's the thing. You need to forgive yourself. It's like Frozen song said, you know. Wow. Let it go.

Oh, I have a theory about Frozen. Frozen. Yeah. Everyone is like a huge Elsa fan. I've never seen it. You haven't seen it. Oh, and this is going to go way over your head, but I've got to finish for everybody that's listening.

Everyone's a big Elsa fan, but Elsa actually spends most of the movie as a recluse. She almost kills her sister, Anna. Anna is actually the protagonist here. Elsa is actually the bad guys, the antagonist, but she has a great song and a great dress. So everybody wants to dress up as Elsa. So now you need to go see the movie. Yeah, well, like, there's so many parallels in a bunch of entertainment where

like, why is this person the good guy when they're not? And one example I'll just bring up is Elsa Halk Hogan. Because if you look back at Halkoomania run, dude's raking backs. He's poking eyes. He's really like curbtailing anybody's like success.

He's kind of a jerk. But people love him. Was Hulk Hogan secretly a heel? I believe so. That's why it worked as a heel. Yeah. His comebacks were very much baby face. Here's the thing, too, I don't know why I have to say it, but it's in my mind.

When I'm talking to, you know, young wrestlers about, like, simple work doesn't mean it's not hard work. Like, you can work extremely hard and you should work extremely hard at the things that are foundational and simple. And I'll point to a Hulk Hogan comeback because he would get these criticisms from people that've never wrestled before that he can't wrestle. The dude can go. The dude could win, like, whatever. But that hard work, like you go 20 minutes selling, feed and, you know, all this action and this movement of his matches. Granted, they're not like flipping and flopping around. Yeah.

But he's very mobile to go to what he's going to do is come back and go home. Like that comeback, that fire he has to show is the most exhausting thing you can do in wrestling. You're talking about that. Like, yeah, like that is like you have to be able to go. go hard. And as simple as it is, that is hard work. And you can look at a lot of, I don't know, life like that. Yeah. Hard work, man. Doesn't mean complicated work. So we're going to wrap things up with a question I ask everybody at the end. Gratitude is number one to me. It's the most important thing for me. I wake up every day and I say out loud three things I'm grateful for. I should do that.

Sets the tone from my day. It's super simple. You should totally do it. But you're going to do it right now. Okay. So what are three things in your life you're grateful? I'm grateful for the ability to have in poignant conversations with people I like and respect. So thank you for that. Thank you. Likewise. I'm back at you. I'm,

I'm grateful for the opportunities that my work has provided me and my ability to suffer as granted me, but also that the world has given me. Like, you know, I'm grateful for what I have to do in the position I'm in. And I'm grateful for refrigeration. like I'm really happy that after this interview I can go to my hotel fridge and grab my chicken rice and it won't be poisoned. I'm grateful for the title shot you're going to give to Chris Sharp.

Chris Sharp. Yeah. Chris Sharp is coming out of retirement. I wrestle Matt Cardona today. Here's one more thing I want to talk about. Okay, Cardona. Yeah. Who reinvented himself his game.

Dude, he did. Like, the absurdity of what he's doing is just awesome. Yeah. JC even put it over to me. So you guys are doing cool stuff. I'm like, well, thanks,

man. Nice. But like, so he wants to shout at the NWA championship. We're going to do it at Blizzard Ball today. I'm probably going to walk away with it. Let's be honest. But like,

we might have a pay-per-view match, right? Yeah. So what I want to do is because he's so absurd. And the overman's fairly absurd. Like, I want to have the craziest named stipulation death match possible. So I've been toying with it. If you want to comment on what would have a crazy.

easy stipulation be, but I was like, I mean, is it the overman versus the Indy God, immortal death match? Do we surround the ring with 10 pounds of gold weapons? You know, I'm like, just trying to think of these, I think the absurdity of the match will sell. And it'll be a great match. It'll be very physical and very realistic, but at the same time, the pop and the circumstances of nonsense are going to really seal the deal for me. I can't wait to see what people come up with in the comments here. Wrestling fans are very creative. They are. That's why I'm leaving it to them to help me.

Okay. Overman. Because I was thrown on God Kings become death. And like just what does that even mean? Overman, Demigod, Indy God, Indy King, King of the Death Match, Death Match, Plural Illuminati, Maximus. Is this an actual death match? Well, I'm going to challenge him to it when I figure out the stipulation. Yeah, okay.

But I figured it has to be a death match. Especially because considering the fact he's a Death Match king, he doesn't do anything with a death match. If you guys can't die, you're immortal. That's the finish. Nobody dies. Nobody dies. All right, man, thank you so much. Thank you.

Look forward to that title shot. That'll be good, man. I look forward to that title shot. Dude, Sharp, your eyes just slid up. Chris Sharp. Yeah. I'm over. Man.

All right, my friends, EC3 has been doing the best work of his entire career. With what he's doing right now is the NWA world's heavyweight champion. what I think is so interesting is this idea in the conversation we talked about is like, when does a wrestler go from being just a wrestler, just another person in the locker room to being a veteran? Like there's not usually a moment where it's like snap your fingers and you're like, that happens. It's just so interesting that he's the veteran now.

He's the veteran in the locker room. We're the exact same age. So he's 40 as well. And he's going to be the champ for another three years and 33 days, right? man, I just love talking to EC3. Feel like we could talk for, like, every month he could come on and we could just talk about wrestling and Cleveland and workout stuff and the Roman Empire and all this other stuff. What a fantastic conversation that we had at Blizzard Brawl in Wisconsin.

It was just great. So I hope you enjoyed this. Snap a screenshot. Let us say you were listening and tag us so we can share it out as well. He's at the real EC3. I'm at Chris Van Vleet, and how about this quote from Albert Einstein? To wrap it up,

there are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle. Be great, be grateful. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. It's an Ask CVV episode tomorrow, so we will see you tomorrow if you have a question. Send it on over using that hashtag.

Ask CVV. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.