Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Ember Moon (Athena) On Frustrations And Confusion In WWE Before Her Release And What's Next

Episode Date: April 29, 2022

Athena (@athenapalmer_fg) is a professional wrestler known for working under the name Ember Moon in WWE and NXT. She joins Chris Van Vliet to talk about her time in WWE and NXT, the frustrations she had during her last few months there, what's next for her, if she is interested in going to AEW, her love of Dungeons and Dragons, her Twitch Stream, her cats, how she met her husband and fellow pro wrestler Matthew Palmer and much more! Check out Athena's Twitch stream: http://twitch.tv/halfdragonap For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to: https://chrisvanvliet.com If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. Follow CVV on social media: Instagram: instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter: twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook: facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube: youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet TikTok: tiktok.com/@Chris.VanVliet CVV CLIPS: youtube.com/CVVCLIPS Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

All systems are going. Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Van Blurley. So good to see you, my friends. How are you? Welcome back to another audio adventure here on Insight. I'm CVV, Chris VanV. Thank you so much for being with us on this one. Fascinating conversation today as we sit down with Athena,

who you'll know better from her time in WWE and NXT as Ember Moon. And this is her first interview since leaving WWE. so I'm honored that we were able to do this together. The headline said she was released by WWE last November, but this interview really tells the full story of her last few months there and everything that transpired. It's a really interesting listen. I encourage you to stick around all the way through this whole interview

because she has a lot to say. And I'm so curious, so excited to see what's next for her and where she shows up on TV next. She's insanely talented. Take a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening to this episode. Let us know you're on this journey with us and tag us on social media so we can share it.

She's at Athena Palmer underscore FG. That's on Twitter and Instagram. And I'm at Chris Van Vleet. And if this is your first episode that you've ever listened to of either Insight or it used to be called the Chris Van Vlead Show, if this is your first episode, I'd be so grateful if you click subscribe wherever you're listening right now.

Big Ben L93 is our fan of the week. Thank you for leaving this review on Apple Podcasts. It says, best interviewer ever. I love watching your show every time it comes on. I think you're the best interviewer ever, and I enjoyed getting to meet you at the Squared Circle Expo, too. What was great meeting you as well? That was in Indianapolis about a week and a half ago.

We're going to be in Baltimore in two weeks, so I hope to see everyone there. It's just exciting doing these events. And also it's exciting meeting people and then being able to like see the review just, you know, a few days later. So it's Celeb Fest 4 is what we're going to be in Baltimore for. We will see you there on May 15th. But I read a review on every single episode. So if you want to be part of the show, if you want to shout out on the show, go into Apple Podcasts, leave a review.

And really, that's it. That's it. If you're a Spotify listener, they've got ratings. So go in there and click the five stars and it'd be just so helpful. if you could do that. All right. Let's get into this such an incredible conversation. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Athena, aka Amber Moon. What a streaming setup you have here. Look at this. Yes, this is my room. My husband made this for me. I came back from a weekend and all of this was done, painted black and I was like, holy crap. Like it extends like all the way around the room.

Oh my gosh. What a thoughtful present. He is. Like, I wish I could, hold on. Let's see. You can. Nope, nope. Hold on. Okay.

It goes all the way around and then it gets messy over there. So we're not going to fan it. There's Pikachu. Yes, I am obsessed. I have lots of Pikachu. Thanks. I have a problem with Pikachu probably. Look at this.

Oh, this is amazing. Yes. So my husband. What else are we seeing behind you here? So, oh, this is Pumpkinhead. Have you ever seen the movie Pumpkin Head? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

So during COVID, my husband introduced me to Pumpkinhead and I just fell in love. And I was like, why have I never seen this movie before? So that was my Christmas present. I have a whole bunch of like box art all the way around the room. Like, I'm just a big nerd. I love that you embrace it. I have to because I feel like for so long, like it wasn't cool to be a nerd. You know what I mean?

Now it's super cool to be a nerd. Now it's like, hey, I can talk about Dungeons and Dragons. I almost said D&B. Some people don't know about the D&B. Well, now you can shorten it for the rest of the interview. Yes. Yeah, I do. I do a little bit of everything.

So it's my jam. I just embrace being a nerd and just being chill and just, I don't know. I just do all of it. What is the, what's the nerdiest thing about you that we might not know? I don't know. Like I watch anime, but I feel like a lot. lot of people know that about me i do collect dice yes i actually like so hold on hold on i am so dice oh that's a lot no no this is just one out of many boxes

that are actually in this room right now um hold on i'm trying not to spill everything dice oh my gosh what is it about dice uh you know sometimes they go to dice shale when they roll like all the wrong things. And then, you know, you just have to get more dice to just, you know, just bring it back up. So yeah. You need a whole room for just your dice. I do have a whole room for just my dice. I wish I could show you.

Maybe next time we'll give you a tour. Next time I'll just come over. We'll do this in person. I have a whole room called the dungeon in my house where we just play board games and D&D and like exploring. You're in Orlando, right? No, I'm in Texas now. Oh.

I've been in Texas for about three, four years. Where in Texas? Dallas. Oh, perfect. Yeah, just in the middle of everything. So my flights aren't too lost. You're flying American Airlines all the time, aren't you? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Got those, got those, what do we call them, points, miles? Yeah, the advantage miles. Yes, yes. I only know this because I'm an American flyer as well. And I'm in DFW all the time. See, that's where everyone connects. But I actually see quite a few people.

So coming through DFW quite a bit, I'm like, hey, what's up? They're like, hey, it will go. And I'm like, but I'm nonstop everywhere, which is the best part about DFW. The funny thing about DFW and also like, I guess it's also a thing in Atlanta and in Las Vegas is you got to take a train to get to your plane. It's so funny to me. So it's funny because like people are like DFW is so big. I'm like it actually isn't if you don't. fly American. American flies out of every terminal and DFW, but if you fly Delta, you're in one.

If you fly United, you're in one. Like, American, it's like, all right, I can park my car at A, but I'm coming at at D. So I got to, but I will say this, and Lena is my favorite airport bar none. Really? Yes, that is my favorite layover spot, uh, mostly because of all the options for food. They have a P.F. Chang's. Also, in terminal A, they have a cake bar. It's, called piece of cake. That sounds incredible. You've never done this before. No, look, I just, I just want to get in and out. Shame. Shame. I just want to, now I've, uh, I don't want to brag here, but now I've got the Admiral's Club membership. Yes, so it's like, you get there and you're like, all right, take me to the nearest Admiral's

club where I can get free food. Well, it's not really free. Yes. Yes, the boiled eggs in the morning. because nothing else is open and you're not standing at that obsessively long Starbucks line. Yeah. And instead we're getting like, what was it the other day? I just flew back from Indianapolis. It was like Lucky Charms, cinnamon toast crunch, some like bagels or like English muffins and oatmeal. I'm like, if I bought this outside of here, it would cost me like $30 for this. This is free. Look at it. It's just for me. Kind of free. What are you using this room for most of the time?

So I stream on Twitch, or for like interviews, meetings, stuff like that. But I'm a Twitch streamer kind of, I don't know. I was having a meeting with you. And this popped up. I'd be like, you're hired. I don't even know what we're talking about. But yes, it's happening. No.

So like I've used this for interviews and like this kind of started when we were doing up, up, down, down with WWE that I was like, I don't want a blank white wall because everyone had these cool background. Well, I'm not throwing shade. But what I just moved. I just moved in with. the girlfriend and this is the background for now. Congratulations.

Oh, yeah, thanks. Yeah, but like everyone had these cool backgrounds and I was like, I look just basic and I have all the stuff that I've collected over the years and my husband like consistently was like, you need to fix this, you need to fix this. And I was like, I'll get there eventually. I'll get there and he just did it for me. That is so thoughtful. It is.

I just came back after a week and I was like, oh, hell yeah. What's up? Had LED lights everywhere. So yeah. Tell me, when did you first meet Matthew and how did this happen? I met Matt, oh my goodness, my second year in wrestling. And I tell this story quite a bit because I think it's really funny because I used to be just quite the asshole because I was the only girl for like 200 miles. And I felt like I constantly just had something to prove. We met at wrestling training to put a little

context on this, right? And I remember Matt at that time, we were around the same size height with all of that stuff. And they would pair us together for drills. And I remember Lance Hoyt or Lance Archer was coaching at that time and that two we were training with. And he was like, all right, you two were going to do this drill where you hit him three times and then he's going hit you three times. And I remember being like, okay, I'm going to show this new kid what's up, being very new myself. And I just blasted him on every shot. And, previous doing the shrill like no one ever really hit me back or no one really gave it back to me and I remember he was the first person that just like gave me the receipt like as hard as I hit him he

hit me back and then he dropped kicked me in my face like just in my face I didn't turn my face which is my fault and I wasn't expecting he hit me in my face and I got up ready to throw punch because I was like ready to go and Lance was like man that was great and I was like oh yeah it's good good job job there you know it's so that's how we initially met so for like the first couple years of me knowing him I hated his guts I hated wow how does this turn then um I think it was a couple of road trips we had like because in Texas everything is so far away we'd have like six hour road trips and like it'd be like all right you drive this weekend they're like oh well Palmer's coming to the show

why don't you ride with him and I was like because I drove a little stick shift and I'm like six hours in a stick shift is not fun. So I always would try to ride with someone else. So I rode with him and he had played like some sort of musical or something on the radio and I was like, oh, I like musicals. And like no one really knew that about me at the time. So she's a big tough college soccer player at the time. And, you know, and we just started getting to know each other and we'd hang out like maybe like five or 10 minutes before the show. And then that turned into him introducing me to Mulan Rouge for the first time. And I was like, whoa, this is great. You know, and It just went forward from there.

And then I remember, like, the best thing was, like, he was my knight and shining armor. And I don't tell this part too often. But I was wrestling on this show in Fort Worth. And I was in this multi-man match with, like, three other guys. And this one guy was just an asshole. And he closed line me so hard. I dislocated my shoulder. Yeah, yeah.

And, like, he was like, oh, she's a girl. Like, he was actually saying out of the back, she's a girl. I have to make sure she's going to make my stuff look good. And you have dislocating my shoulder, which I've done gymnastics for years. And so these just go in and out, period. That's just what they do now. And they call it breaking. It's a certain technique to make you more flexible.

So my shoulders will sift in and out, like naturally now. But anyway, my shoulder was just locked like forward. And my friend like popped it back in place for me. And I was like, okay, I drive a stick ship. This is not working. And I remember Matt was on the show and he lived in Arlington at that time and I lived all the way in Garland, which is probably about an hour and some change. Arlington is about 10 minutes away. And so the guy that I rode with was like, nope, sorry, I'm going to the club.

And I was like, and Matt was like, well, I'll drive you home. And I was like, oh, okay. So he drove me an hour out of his way home, had his friend follow us as he drove my sick shift all the way home. And he goes, hey, would you like to come? to my show tomorrow. It's in Austin. I would like to invite you as my guest. And I was like, like shoulder just, I'm in so much pain. I'm like, and I live with my parents at the time. I was like, I have to suck this up and like pretend like this doesn't exist when I walk through that door. And I was like, you know what? Yeah, I'll go. I'll go. And so someone came and picked me up

the next day because I couldn't drive. And I was in a lot of pain. And so I go to this show in Austin anarchy championship wrestling and he has a match versus massata if you know anything about masada he is a very hardcore very tough hard hitting amazing person but hard hitting man and so matt does this um he goes up for a frog frog splash in the corner and he points to me on the balcony and i swoon and then he just gets demolished by masada like right after that that was like but that was cute and so we started dating after that and it just turned into a whole thing and you know mad has been my biggest supporter throughout the years like even before uh i got signed to w w e i was getting ready to quit i was done i had wrestle everyone i wanted to wrestle i had done every match i had wanted to do my last

match that i had really wanted to do was the tlc match uh which i had just done with hanaia ecb arena i was like you know i think i'm ready to throw on the towel like 10 years is a long time I've done all these tryouts for impact in WWE and no one really wanted me. And he was like, you know, if that's what you want to do, that's fine. But I don't think you should. I think you should give it one last go. And I was like, nah, no, I'm done. I'm ready to conform to society.

And we had like a solid desk job at that time, both of us. And it was like, no, it's time to be an adult emerging to the world. And, you know, he was always like, what if, what if, what if, what if you just tried one more time? you know and then like i ran into um page who was like hey you really need to try out like i will help you out the best i can and matt was like see see she's saying it you know and she's you know like it was just matt has just always been there for me and my toughest of times he's seen me come home just destroyed from like emotionally destroyed from like going to work coming back from work having the roughest of days and catering to not knowing what's going on. And like he's been there at

my happiest moments when I won the title. Like, and I wish he could have been there for the tag title, but COVID times, you know, but like he's just always there. He's the first one to check on me. And it's just amazing to have someone like that in my life. So yeah, I'm getting all teary eye talking about it because I don't get emotional too much. Yeah. If you were ready to throw in the towel and, you conform to, you know, quote unquote, real life. What made you, you know, decide to go, all right, I'm going to do this. And not only do this, like, now you're, you're still doing it. Yeah. Like, it, it, it, I don't know. Like, it was, it was at that point, like I said, I had done everything that I wanted to do. Like, I wrestled everyone, like, we, everyone has that

bucket list of I would have wrestled this person, this person, this person. And I got through, like, all of that list. And I was sitting here like, everyone's just getting signed. I just, I don't know what's next. I'm kind of, you know, and just having someone like that in your corner that's like, I know you're not done. I know you're not done. No. But, you know, like I said, we had a really good paying job.

We worked for citizenship and immigration at that time, helping process citizenship work, processing the American dream, as they say, as corny as that sounds. But, but yeah, like, I was just kind of done because I, I don't know. Like, I didn't ever really want to be like some of the other women wrestlers that were around that it never gone anywhere, never made it anywhere. And they were just like, I love this so much that this is what I want to continue. You know, and I just didn't feel like I still had that same love at that time. Yeah.

And like, I was originally trained by Skandar Akbar. And he was like, the day that you stopped having fun is the day that you need to quit. And I wasn't having fun anymore. I felt like work. And it was just like, okay, I tried this and this. And so nothing was new for me. Everything felt the same. You go in, you do your match, you hop on the plane, you leave.

And when I gotten signed and like, honestly, I did the last try out thinking I was not going to get signed. I was like, well, just do this last one. We'll just go ahead, get it done. I'm not what they're looking for, you know. And I had so many people in my corner that like they signed me day two of. the tryout. And like of the, I think it was three or four days. And they were like, you're fine. You're going to get signed. And I was like, I'm sorry. They like pull you aside. And they say, yep. Yep. Yeah. And I remember Taylor Hendricks actually wrote a really cool

article about it. Because I genuinely, and I feel bad, but I genuinely forgot that she was there for my last tryout. And like 10 years of being told, you're not pretty enough. You need to lose weight. You're just not what we're looking for. You're too buff. You're all of these comments that have been said over my multiple tryouts, you know? And then, like, I finally got the yes. And like, it meant so much more to me that I wasn't going to be a diva, if that makes sense. It meant so much more because, like, I'm not a diva. Like, so I like putting on makeup and looking pretty, who doesn't? You know what I mean? But like, when it comes to my aesthetic in the fans that I cater to, I don't promote sexuality like that. I never have and I don't think that I ever will.

like as or at least right now you know those thirst trap photos on the internet or you got to play into the algorithm i get it yeah yeah but i've just never been that type of person like you know look at look at look at all of this you know i'm i'm a nerd and that's just you know i don't know but like it meant so much more to me that i did it on my merit and on my skill level than based on my appearance yeah well and it's like this is the era for that right like it's 20 years ago, you had to be fit into this one box and that was it if you were a female wrestler. Exactly. And, you know, and on some level as a kid, that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be, you know, I feel like I shouldn't say this. But like, you know, when you're a little girl and you're watching

wrestling and you're seeing like, you know, the Hollies and Nydia and Jamie Noble and ivory, right to censor ivory and like Victoria and all these women. And they're like, the couple of minutes that they did get in the ring. You were like, hell yeah. And then outside of the ring, you were like, holy smokes, they're fighting in bikinis and gravy. Who would have thought? You know what I mean? Like I remember when Lita came out with S.A. Rios did the moonsault and like every girl that was like so watching wrestling at that time was like pulling up their underwear up here. Like, look, I got the Lita going out because that was the cool thing. You know what I mean? And like I laugh at it now because I was like, I was such a dork.

I was such a fan girl dork. It like, I don't know. On some level, that's who I wanted to be. And I remember trying to walk in a high heels. So this day, I cannot walk in high heels. Like, it is, it is a disaster zone. You're actually how tall? 5.1.

I wish. So high heels, you know, make you quite a bit taller. Like, like a normal person's height, 5, 5, probably. But I, I just can't do it. it. It's not in my gene aesthetic to be like, hey, you and high heels are going to go together. No, it's been a brutal fight for over a decade. I'm like, come on. Just work with me. You'll have to be on for five minutes. So if you're on the Indies and it was starting to feel like you weren't loving and you weren't having fun anymore, do you feel like in a way it became full circle after you get signed that there was a point

where you're like, this isn't as fun as I thought it was going to be? Oh. Oh. Yes. And I, okay, we're going to talk about it. I feel like, I feel like, I feel like I need to talk about it just to get it off my chest and to get it out there in the universe. Because my last four months was just one of those moments that I wasn't having fun anymore. And it started with Shotsie being gone and Shatsy being drafted. And I remember like thinking like, I, I was sitting at home and I got a phone call saying, hey, we don't want you to be upset. But Shotsie just got moved to Smackdown and she's debuting with Tegan Nucks as a tag team. And I just was sitting there. And I was like, I was playing D&D, the most beautiful day of my week. And I'm getting this phone call about how Shati's been drafted.

And I was like, oh my God, I'm so happy for her. And then like the tag team thing popped out. And I was like, but. we're the tag team and we have merch and we're doing fun things and we had just finally gotten into our groove of the banter and it was just like but they're like don't worry we have stuff for you and i was like okay cool cool and i remember like going to hunter and hunter was just like i have no clue what's happening we'll figure it out together and like that was like so much of what i needed at that time because no one really knew what was happening you know but

Bailey had gotten injured and they, I know Shotsie and Tegan were going to do dark matches for a tryout anyway, you know, and they were like, well, we already had these girls here. Let's throw them out there. But the problem I had was kind of like some of the newer writers were like coming from Raw, coming from SmackDown. We had no idea you and Shotsie were a tag team. And like just sitting there and just a lot of WWE backstage is having to play the game. of like, oh, yeah, man, it's cool.

We get it. We're down here at NXT. It wasn't like we weren't front page of dot com or anything when we won the titles. But that's fine. Yes, you, mm-hmm. And you're just having to, I guess, eat the shit sandwich and smile what shit in your teeth a lot of the times because it's all about not making waves. And it's just like, okay, yeah, it's fine, cool.

Yeah, I bet you didn't know we were a tag team. Look at shop. Look at this. you know, and it's just like, okay, cool. And it was like, you know, me and Hunter and the head writer at the time, we had all came up with, we're going to do a heel turn for me because that's something new, that's something different. And during this process, we wanted to do like a losing streak. Or at least that was my thought, is let me do the losing trick. I see all these new faces coming through here. My part of my job at NXT was to help new talent on TV, you know, which I get that, you know. I've been around for a very long time. like and i've been doing this what like 16 17 years at this point in time you know and it was like you know and i and i love this business so much that i didn't mind i was like hey let me go on a losing street let me get super frustrated and let me turn right yeah and i remember okay this is a great idea we got abcd f we're going to do your first feed with this person or this person and then the

first match happens and then i'm off tv for four weeks and then i'm like okay they're like don't worry we got this, we got this, then like Hunter disappeared. And then I was supposed to do a match with Surrey and I ended up getting a rash on my arm and I had an allergic reaction to something that they thought was something else so they pulled me from a match. And I was like, okay, cool, whatever, that's fine. All right, we're going to keep trucking.

They're like, hey, we'll do this match next week. And then another three weeks later, they're like, hey, we're going to do this match. That match gets pulled from TV and then You know, one of the head coaches goes, hey, well, you do me a favor and work 205 live with Cora Jade. We really like her. She's a sweet girl. We really think this would be a fun match.

You two are in the main event of 205. And I was like, okay, cool. That sounds great. Like I'm never going to say no to having a match on TV regardless of where it's airing or whatever like that. Me and Corey go out there and we have just a fun banger of a match. And they're like, yeah, you got, and they go, you're turning in this match. But we want to make it subtle. Right.

So they kind of turn me, but they don't. And then there was like a lot of, I don't know, confusion on what was supposed to happen. And then some kind of way, I remember going online to be like, did Ember turn heel? Did she? I was like, I don't know if I turned heel or not, you know? And then off TV for three weeks and I have the match with Mandy. And they're like, we're finally pulling the trigger on this. And I get a note that week saying, hey, in two weeks, we need.

you to dye your hair, fire colored again. We need to get the red contacts. You're going back to the old Denver moon character. This is Pervance. And we want you, you're going to turn heel, but you're going to turn heel as your old character. We're trying to get the old music and all that stuff together. I was like, all right, great. This is great. So I go home, get my bottle of whiskey. I'm dye this hair because I have to hand dye that myself. It takes an astronomical amount of time. You do it all yourself? Yes. I dye my. hair extensions that fire colored Ombray takes a minimum of eight hours.

It is extremely tedious and like mind you during COVID my dye supplier actually shut down so I'm having to find different colors and I'm spending a fortune on this hair and two weeks later I show up to TV I'm like super motivated I'm happy and I'm like okay it's finally looking up for me you know just wait it out just wait it out

and I remember Ryan Katz and I went and like a kind of demo of kind of the vibe that I wanted. And I was like, and he's like, this could be awesome. Da, da, da, da, come back. I get the video ready. I'm ready to show everyone after TVs. And they go, hey, we got some bad news. And I was like, I'm sorry, what?

I just, I got this video. No, Vince is pulling you off TV indefinitely. What? And I just kind of sat there and I was just like, what did I do wrong? And he's like, you did nothing? wrong and I was like I have done everything that you guys have asked me I have gone over and above like I can't express to you like when they put me and shots in a tag team everyone knows everyone backstage you like I'm not a tag team person I hate tag teams because there's just too many moving

parts it is not that I hate tag team wrestling it's just that it requires so much more to give versus relying just on yourself for that you have to rely on like three other people in the ring to make sure everything's on point, which is fun. And I feel like me and Shotsy capitalized on it. And we were just so motivated within that tag team to build a division. And then we weren't able to. But like me showing up to that TVs and it's like 2 a.m. And I just remember sitting there and I was like, I've done everything you guys have asked me to. I've done over and beyond. I've branched out. I've, sorry, I'm getting emotional about it. I'm trying not to, but

I understand. Like this is the dream job, especially like someone who's a wrestling fan, like lifelong wrestling fan. And when you when you care about something and you care about this business so much more, not just for yourself,

but for everyone involved, it hurts so much more because for so many years, I've been not about myself, if that makes sense. I've been for the, match for the other people. And to be told that I have done nothing wrong. And I was taken off TV for doing absolutely nothing wrong. It hurts so bad because I was so happy walking into work.

And I remember what Shotsie left. I remember going to my makeup artist and going, I'm so unhappy. I'm so unhappy. And we'd have to sit through stupid meetings about how we would have to dress sexy. And I remember looking at someone, I was like, I cater to children. I am not about to wear fishnet, booty, butt, cheat shorts because we had a two-hour meeting about how to dress like Mandy Rose. That's not fair. Not everyone is going to be Mandy. Mandy is absolutely phenomenal, and she is an amazing person. But not everyone is Mandy Rose.

And that's like, I started seeing this downslope as soon as Hunter was gone. And like for the first little bit, we didn't know why he was gone. And we just knew he wasn't there, you know. And so it became this like, I got so angry. And I remember sitting there and I was like, I did nothing wrong. I didn't piss offence. I didn't. I said, you take shots away from me.

Now Hunter's gone. You know, and I said, like, you guys promised me this wouldn't happen. You guys promised I wouldn't be lost in the shuffle. And I said, I went on this losing streak to help you guys out, to help build other talent. So I could get a reward. And they were like, well, don't, not everything's lost, Denver, you know. We still want you to come and help out the next generation, maybe teach a class, maybe, you know, do some PC lives, which is the student show in front of no fans.

And I'm just like, so you're taking me off TV and you're trying to make me a coach. And I just remember, like, laughing. And I was like, you know what? I said, if I've done nothing wrong, I said, you can cancel all my flights. I said, I'm not coming to help these people that do not care about what I do. They only care about the paycheck that hits their bank account. They're not passionate like me. I'm not going to come up here and help these people that don't care about what we do

when there's no benefit for me. When I've done nothing wrong, when I've given you my entire right side of my body, between my elbow surgery and my Achilles surgery, I've given you this entire side for no reward, not even a thank you. And like, you want me to coach. You want to take me on TV to come coach. And I just, I remember just like sitting there a moment and I got Tiri.

I just like that. And he's like, are you okay? I go, no, I'm not okay. I said, this is what you can do. I said, I'm not coming up here to coach. I said, I'm not coming up here to do your piece. I said I was supposed to come to NXT to repackage and then go back up to main roster. That was supposed to be within the year.

But I'm still here. You took Shotsie away from me. I said, I have nothing to go off of. I said, so I'm going home. I said, cancel all my flights, cancel all my hotels. I said, if you have a flight there and you have no creative for me, I'm not getting on the flight. I said, I'm not doing this anymore because I am going to snap.

And it's either going to be on you or it's going to be on a talent. So I am going to go home. And I said, you leave me there to you have something for me. And I said, and even then, I said, I need to approve the creative before I hop on the flight. And it's the first time I've ever pulled this card. And I remember thinking, I think I just quit. The entire time, I was like, oh, buddy, for three months, you've been saying like, yeah, I think I'm going to quit today. Yeah, I'm going to quit today.

And then I actually did, I think. And I remember just kind of getting real small and quiet. And like, I was yelling. I was yelling because I was so angry. And I remember one of my last promos that I ever cut on the indie, she's kind of flashed in my head is that like, well, you know, I hope I don't come back here. But if I do, we all know it's because of my mouth.

Yeah. And I remember that flashing in my head. I just kind of laughed to myself and I was kind of crying. And I had gotten a couple. Boy, the worst part about this is that on some level, I knew that I was leaving. I had already gone and bought an extra bag and kept it in the locker room so I could pack all my stuff and leave. Like, it had been there for like a month. And I was just like, I'm so unhappy.

Like, I see where this is going between the booty butt cheek shorts meeting and like them telling girls to alter their gear to make it more revealing. And some people were very uncomfortable with that. And they were like, nope, this is what they want. you got to do it. It didn't matter how that person felt. And I was like, this isn't what I signed up for anymore. This isn't about the wrestling. This isn't about the art that we create in the ring. This is turning into everything that I left on Ron Smackdown. You could just see if the pity parties started forming in the locker rooms and the jealousy and the caddiness. Well, why is this person on TV? And why is she can't do this? And da-da-da. And I just was sitting there. And I was just,

like, I'm an adult. I can't deal with this high school bullshit. And I'd be like, guys, it's okay. You know, and I'd be that locker room leader because if I didn't, it would just go into the negative zone and no one would be able to have any type of positivity. And everyone would hate the job that we have all worked so hard to be at. You know? So when you tell them this, you tell them that you, you know, I'm not coming back, cancel

my flights. What's the reaction? They, I think. he was taken aback at first. He was like, oh, oh. And then he was like, yeah, yeah, we'll take you off the PC shows. We'll just give you a week. And I go, no, no, I'm not coming back to you have some TV.

You said indefinitely, right? So I will sit at home. And like at this time, you know, I had already chosen not to resign. So there were a lot of factors that I kind of knew that my release was coming. When was your contract up? My contract was up in April. They had offered me a ton of money to stay at one point in time. And I was just like, it was life changing like money.

And I was just like, wow. Like we're talking double, triple what you're making? Um, probably five times what I was currently making at that time. And I was just like, this is, this is life changing money. But like sometimes the money can't buy happiness. And I know some people are going to call me stupid for that. And I was just like, I couldn't believe the money that they were offering me. I was so unhappy, but I was just like, no, like some things you don't do for money, some things you do

for the passion and love of what we do. And I wasn't getting the love for this. It became like a, like my nine to five job that I worked before I got signed where I was just like, I hate everyone here. Hi, I like you. I like you. I like you. Fuck everyone else. Oh my gosh. I can't wait to be home. And like for what we do every day, we go out there and we risk our lives and no day is the same. Why am I feeling this way? And I just remember like when that last conversation happened, I remember just kind of looking over this guy's shoulder that I was talking to in John Lauren, I just in the corner, I was like, what? You get to like, I was so confident. I was like, what?

What? You want to say something? Like, but I grabbed my stuff. I hop back on the flight. And I remember just like there was the front desk lady who is just an amazing person. And like she goes, are you okay? I had to go, I think I just quit. And I'm not certain.

She goes, well, what did you say? And so I tell her everything that happened. She goes, yeah, I think you just quit. And I was like, huh? And so I hugged her and I said, I think this is going to be the last time I see you. And I just want to say thank you for everything for being a mom to me here. and you know and I still talk to her to this day you know and I still talk to a lot of people to this day but I just need to be happy. Yeah and I mean this is a very interesting story about like how it's not

about the money. It's about like what's in here and like what makes you feel good every day. Yeah. And like when I go and I'm able to perform like on the Indies versus WWE. WWE, it's a business, right? It's corporate. And like television. It's a television show. And like there's credits and I'm not actually like a crazy lady that yells that might be a werewolf for a vampire. We'll never fucking know. But like it's it's funny because like the pressure is on for perfection. And they demand that of you.

And if you can't deliver perfection, if you have one mistake, especially as a woman, you'll end up in catering. You don't be in catering. Like there are certain people that can make so many different mistakes. and they're fine, but like people like me, you make one mistake, you're in catering. So if your contract was up, that means you're free. You don't have the 30 days or 90 days. So they ended up releasing me three weeks later, which was kind of a swerve and an aspect of things because I had gotten a call from creative the same day. Within like the same hour, it was like, hey, yeah, we want to talk to you about some stuff. And I was like, and like as I'm on like text with

this particular person. He's like, I got some ideas. I saw the video, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, hold on. I think I'm getting fired. And he was like, what? And so I'm on the, like, I'm playing Far Cry Six, which shout out. That was an awesome game. I love that every story revolves around whatever game you're playing. So I was so deep into Far Cry Six. I was in the final level. I've tried to sneak in the mansion. I'm multitasking. I've done this level like 30 F in time still can't pass it. I'm texting the writers and I'm like, oh, that's a cool idea, blah, blah, blah. John Laurenitis calls and he's like, hey, and I'm like, yep, here it is. And I remember my husband walked by and he goes, ah, yes, here it is. I go, yep, get the whiskey ready. And he's like

pouring shots in the background. And I go, hello. And he goes, hey, sorry, hey, Amber, this John Lord, I just, uh, afraid I got some bad news. I go, I'm fired. He goes, well, we like to say release. And I go, okay, cool. Uh, he's like, do you have any questions? I go, no, not a single one. Now going full circle of seeing that wrestling movement come through us having these banger ass matches and Triple H believing in the women's wrestling for what it was, which was wrestling. To take the women's out of it, it was wrestling. And us being given the platform to go out there and kill it. referring every every every show sorry and then like seeing the transformation once hunter was gone seeing the meetings of what you need to wear how you need to act and like mama was done when they said

hey guys you know this is how you should look when you go to the grocery store and i was like oh so how do fish net booty butt cheek shorts factor in to walmart where did this shift happen because you were so over in NXT. So it was, it was literally shots he left. And then they kind of, there was this weird period because a whole bunch of people got drafted

and they weren't expecting them to be drafted, I think then. So there was this whole shift. But when Hunter was gone and out of the pitcher, that's when all this started. That's when I feel like even like in XT, you're red hot. And then I feel like you go to the main roster

and like this, always seems to happen where you kind of lose some of the momentum that you have. And I think it's because it's a whole different staff. Like I will attest to that. It's a whole different staff. You're having to learn who the writers are for you. The writers are having to learn to who you are because no one knows who you are. And they very much so make you feel that way.

And they very much so tell you that. Like when I remember when I debuted on Raw after Mania, they were like, all right, they might not pop kid they might not know who you are just don't don't take offense to it and I was like what I just was and so your heart is sinking right

but I think it's because there's so many people backstage at Ron Smackdown within that writing stuff that don't really know who you are they know oh you were on takeover but they don't know you as a character they don't know you as a person and it's kind of starting all over again when you get to Ron Smackdown. And I think that that's why so many people struggle in that transition. Like, because one, they might see you and they're like, okay, wow, yeah, you're not this warrior vampire

thing. You're just a straight baby face, smile, cheese, like hug and kiss babies. Or they could be like, hey, we're going to make you into, I don't know, like the carry and cross stuff. Like, where he already had this rock star assassin killer vibe. And then they're like, you're going to be a gladiator. And you're like, what? Huh? He still talks about how terrible that helmet was. I, at one point in time, just was like, or you could be like retribution who was not told

who they were until they unmasked. Look, we could go down the list of all the people. I think Keith Lee's another example. Yeah, like, I feel like on some level, they need to have some form of writing staff that crosses over both ways. And I think it, and look, this is me from the outside looking in, but it feels like if you're on Raw, like Raw is the priority and that's what you watch. That's what you work on. And like, why would you bother watching Smackdown or NXT because this is the show you're on? As a talent, it was immensely hard to watch any other show than the one you were on.

because like so if you're on raw you're doing live events during Fridays, which means you can't watch Smackdown, right? You're not going to see NXT because that's a travel day for you. You know what I mean? You're certainly not watching it live, yeah. Yeah. Like, and by the time you're able to sit down and watch it, sleep is more of a priority than watching wrestling because you've been surrounded by wrestling for the past. Like, I don't know, five, six days at that point in time. And not we also live in a time where you could just catch up on all the clips on social media too.

Which is what I was doing. like that's the only reason I could just like focus and like I always talk about like being able to enjoy wrestling as a fan versus being a worker if you will. I can say wrestling again and it's fucking amazing. But like watching wrestling as a fan is very important to me because of how I started wrestling, right? Because I was bullied and I just I just fell in love with all the different characters and people being able to defend their ideals and beliefs and fight for what they believe. right so i on some level have to watch wrestling as a pan not only that now but because so many of my friends are on tv that like i want to be the person that supports them despite my personal feelings despite the fact and like honestly it's not even that personal it's business at this point in time like because if

you have someone that's not wanting to work anymore let them go right like i i get that like and i am more lucky than and more fortunate than some of my other friends that are not able to get out of their and stuff like that as well. But I have to. It's crazy to me, by the way. Like someone doesn't want to be there. Oh, sorry. You got to stay here anyway.

Well, I think they're afraid of the talent that they possess and they can take elsewhere. Yeah. And perhaps that's why you were offered such a pay raise because they're like, you know, that point in time, a lot of people were jumping ship. Yeah. And it was literally up until maybe I want to say August, September. like July, August, they were still trying. And I was just like, and I remember telling them as like, look, I would love to sit here and take their money, take your money, but you haven't given me a reason to stay. And I remember that being my point of dispute with them. And it was just like, I want to stay. I want you to make me stay. But I just, I was seeing everything that was going on at EU. And I was like, that looks fun. That looks like what I thought I was going to do. Like, you know what I mean? I was like, hold on.

And like, you know, and for a while, like, we couldn't even talk about it backstage because they were like, oh, you shouldn't be watching the competitor. And I'm like, how do you expect us to outshine them? How do you expect it? But like, it was, it was different because I wasn't watching for film. I was watching because I was like envious of what was happening there. And I remember, like, I would text Dustin from time to time on occasion. And the only thing he would respond back It would be like, hey Dustin, how are you?

He goes, we sure are having fun over here. And I'm like, I see that you're having fun, Dustin. How are you? How's life? Don't rub it in. You know? And like Dustin was one of those people that like, when I was on Raw on Smackdown

and still trying to figure out my identity within that new roster that I was being jumped into, he was the only one that would sit there and he would give me character advice. So I'm like, yeah, you need to do this. You need to do that. Fuck what they say. You need you do this, this.

And like, that's fucking gold dust, bro. That's the ultimate character. My man survived throughout everything. And he's like, and like on some level, I was like, it's fucking gold dust. Take it. And like, you know what I mean? And it's just like he took such an interest in my character work where no one else would. And so like it was, you know, I saw him.

And then like my friend Levin. like, I'm just having a great time over here. And then like just seeing genuinely how happy everyone was. Well, look, you're free now to go wherever you want to go. And like, well, you know, that's up to them technically, you know? Sure. Well, you're right. It takes two to tango.

I think I've been very open on, you know, just being like, hey, whoever offers, let's do it. You know, because like, I just want to wrestle. and have fun, you know? And I think I've done a good chunk of that since I've been back on the Indies. Well, for sure. What do you think you can do now as Athena that you couldn't do as Ember? I have more knowledge now. And that's the one thing I am super thankful for being able to work under Hunter, Sean, Matt Bloom, Sarah Amato, Norman Smiley, Robbie Brookside. Like, there's so much knowledge. Terry Taylor. Like, I have to say Terry, because I've said, He's right too many times for me not to say his name.

But there's so much knowledge within the Performance Center that I wish I would have gotten on the Indies because I traveled around the world to try to get that knowledge. But it was just all in one place, you know. And being able to manipulate a crowd, being able to do crowd work within the match, pacing. Those are things that I think that set me over the edge now along with being Athena and being in Bermuda. are two different people for me because Ember is very calculated and cold and very methodical where Athena is just basically like, fuck it. I'm the woman of a thousand moves come through and see me. You know, Athena is all attitude. But being able to bring that knowledge and intensity back with me along with the crowdwork, which I really feel like I was struggling with when I was on the Indies

is like invaluable. Yeah. Every time I see someone who has been in WWE on back on on the Indies for the first time. Their crowd work is always so good. And that's not to take away from the other people that are on the card, but it's just you can tell it's next level. Yeah, and I feel like without WWE, I wouldn't have had that.

Like, I maybe would have paused here and there, but like it's learning how to build a match based around your crowd reactions is different than just building a match, right? Because you can still do all the crazy stuff, but if you get no pop, what? What? You're just like, what? Why cheer? I just, I just killed this man, right? But like, if you know how to build it properly and escalate your spots, which is where I feel like a lot of independent talent, like they blow their load too soon and then they end in a roll up, you know, like, there's nothing wrong with that, y'all, but you have to build it correctly to end in that roll up. Yeah. There's this clip going viral in the last few weeks of this match with you and Taya where you've set up, is it 20 chair?

that you set up for it. So let me explain this for anyone who hasn't seen it. It's a superplex to the outside through like 20 something chairs. I don't know. Did you count? You know how many there are? There were supposed to be 21, but I couldn't find the last chair. So I told all these comments like, how do you even set that up? Like, because we're only seeing the clip as it happens. So walk us through what's, first of all, what this match is about, walk us through to that spot. So I'll tell you about the match. So basically prestige wrestling, which is like insane. And I'm just so thankful for them, to be honest with you.

They contacted me. They said, hey, because I had a booking that got canceled. And they were like, hey, do you want to come do a run-in on Tea Valkyrie? And I was like, go on. You know, because like you don't normally get booked on that it needs to do a run-in. And they were like, yeah, we got this big show. want you to come run in, beat her up and then say, hey, I'm here at prestige and leave. And I was like, okay, cool.

So I get there and they hand me a Ray Mysterio basket. They're like, kid, you wear this? And I was like, yes, right? So like, I come in, I do the spot. I put her through the table or the door, if you will. And I remember, like, being like, okay, here we go. And I remember taking off the mask and, like, the crowd freaking. erupted to the point where I was like, like, teary-eyed.

I was like, you remember me, you know? And so like, and it was just like in the, and that went viral. Like that went viral worldwide that I appeared at this company. And so he was like, screw it. We're going to announce the match. Like I don't even think we had actually physically booked the date yet. And he was like, main event next show, Teia Valkyrie versus Athena. And like the crowd just like lost it.

Like I said, it. it trended worldwide and it was just like holy crap i didn't realize that like two people that it had a lot of shortcomings within wwe could get such a massive i guess um support from the fan base around the world like especially on the indies i feel like that's a rarity unless you're like live on blah blah blah network or there's a lot of y'all out there now forgive me but like You know, I just, I just didn't think that that was going to be the reaction. Like it went viral. I think it appears here, blah, blah, blah.

And so, like, because I put her through a table, it was like, okay, well, we can't just go have a normal match. I put her through a door. And so I start kind of thinking, and I used to do the spot all the time on the Indies with the chairs. And so it's a 20 chair spot. Mind you, when you have shorter people, you don't have to use 20 chairs. but Tea is taller. So you have to make sure that there's enough chair for her to land on. So she builds the first half.

I come in. I build the last half. And mind you, the chairs are so far under the ring that it took like maybe a good five to ten for me to build this bad boy. And like, so I'm going over, hitting her with stuff.

I'm like, I'm so sorry and I'm missing a chair too. So that makes the build even longer because I'm like, everything has to be perfect. And I'm like doing. There's clips and be like teasing, like got to get the right angle on this. And like finally the crowd gets into it. And they're like, one more chair.

So we get this built. But it's a spot I used to do all the time on the Indies. Right. And like anyone that knows anything about Athena on the Indies before WWE, I used to do a lot of hardcore stuff. I used to do thumbtacks and glass and death matches and all sorts of stuff. And hopefully none of that ever resurfaces because it probably is terrible. But like this was my spot that I used to do all the time, the chair spot.

And I think people forgot that that I used to do it. So plus, I don't think anyone's really done stuff like this in a while. But so I go and I pitch this idea to the promoter and he's like, I'm sorry, you want to do what? And I'm like, yeah. And this almost made it to WWE, by the way, for the street fight with me and Shotsie versus Candace and Indy. It just, they couldn't find enough chairs. That's what that's what they couldn't find 20 chairs to kill over. I don't know about that.

Chairs everywhere in WWA. Yeah, but they're the nice ones with the cushion and the logo. You can't, you can't do that. No, but they couldn't find enough chairs or whatever the issue was that they said. But yeah, so we do this. It goes really well. The crowd goes crazy. It goes viral.

And it was just like one of those moments where I was just like, ha, I finally did it after seven years. I have accomplished the impossible again. You know, like, I don't know. And like, I was, I was kind of amazed that people forgot that I used to do this all the time. I think. I don't know. It's weird. Well, I think the thing is, you did it before as Athena. Then the world got to know you as Ember. And now you're back as Athena where there's a still, you know, there's a lot of people who didn't know you before. Yeah. And it's weird because they're the ones that I feel like are like that are like, why would you do this? Why? Why would you do this to yourself? I'm like, no, I'm fine. I'm fine. See, I'm fine. And this might sound like a

dumb question, but is it a relatively safe spot? So the reason why you have to have the 21 shares. So the way you build this up is you have 10 chairs on the bottom. You have two chairs flat right here. And then you put the four on top. So you kind of make a chair pyramid, right? And the only thing you're landing on are the seats of the chairs, pretty much. So as long as your base is stable, you'll hit and then everything should collapse. Right.

But you're landing on essentially, I feel like I'm giving away the trick to this. and I feel bad, but I'm tired of the backlash from it. So essentially you're landing on the apron. That's it because it's as tall as the apron. Right. So everyone always says, oh, it's super dangerous. It's super unsafe. It's crazy.

And I'm like, no, no. It looks great. Yeah, it looks crazy. It is crazy. But I'm not landing on concrete. And I think like something to be noted is that there was a death match, I think, three matches before us, you know, where they're, going through glass and barbed wire and all of this stuff.

And I'm like, but y'all didn't say nothing about that. You know what I mean? I did a crazy chair thing. I don't know. It's weird. Look, it's because it's you. You know that. Well, yeah, but it's because people think they know you from being ember for all those years.

I think on some level, like, I remember there were times where they were like, oh, girls don't fall over and I'm sitting here like I remember it was such a fight to do the eclipse off the ladder that that was a fight that because I tried to do it the first year at money in the bank they were like this is just too unsafe you're going to hurt yourself but I've done this seven times on the indies with less safety measures you know and it's and it's like I'm I'm good and I remember like the Next year, there was like some stuff that happened where like they were like, girls don't fall down and hurt yourselves. And I was like, who are you talking? Like, it's just, I was like, I've done dumber stuff like it.

I feel like because WWE is so careful. And like, mind you, they don't want us to get hurt. Yeah. But I think on some level, they have to remember that some of us have done the dumb stuff that got us hurt. We've learned from that. And then we basically made it safer. But like, I remember the eclipse off the ladder that second. second year. They were like, doors were about to open. There was a minute left. And Vince was like,

she can't do it unless I see it first. She can't do it unless I see it first. I was like, Natty, Natty has like one eyelash on. She's like running from makeup to do it. And like, we do it one time. And he's like, okay, they're fine. And I was like, come on. Yeah, I don't know. It's sometimes too much safety. I feel like. Well, again, it's probably looking out for your best interest. Yes, always looking at. out for our best interest. But I feel like when it comes to the men, they never do that. Well, I mean, they have banned pile drivers, I think, for safety reasons. Well, yes. They've, they've like, pile drivers are one of those like crazy things that, you know, even on the Indies,

they're a bit rough. And I've seen a lot of my friends get hurt by them. So it's just kind of like, if I know you, I'll do it. If not, no. But like, power drivers are one thing, doing crazy spots, jumping off of stuff. It's not something the women get to do very often or like rarely. So like for me to be able to jump off that ladder and do the eclipse at the time, the O face now. But like it was one of those things that like I was like, oh my God, are they going to veto this again? Like are they going to veto this again?

Kevin, Kevin jumped off the fucking Tron like two weeks ago, but I can't jump off a ladder and a ladder. You know, like it's so weird like the things that like the guys can do. And they're like, oh, yeah, it's co-faced. Let him let him do it. He'll figure, you know, and then the girls are like, okay, ladies, we have to have rehearsal for this. So you guys don't get hurt. And I'm like, I don't know.

Sometimes it's just such a double standard. And it feels like when you're home with mom or I grew up with a brother. So my brother got to go out and do everything. But if I go out, I have to have a five o'clock check in, a six p.m. check in. I have to be home before the street lights are on. He's out till what I am. But I'm like, what is that? I'm older than him.

what is that? You know, and that's kind of how it feels at times or it did when I was up on Ron SmackDown. NXT was different because Hunter's like, yeah, ladies, you want to do that. Go and do it. Go have fun.

Just don't get hurt. But he trusted us to do it. Like, that was the best part about like Hunter's NXT or NXT 1.0, whatever you want to call it, is that like, we had not only the coaching staff behind us that was pushing us to do more and pushing us to push those limits past like our gender. We just had so much support from every avenue to do what we wanted to do.

And I felt like as soon as Hunter's presence was gone, they were like, all right. Ladies, you got three minutes. Your time's going to get cut, baby. So go as fast as you can. I was like, like there's sometimes you just laugh because at that point in time, I remember saying, hey, guys, because I've been on ride, been on Smackdown and NXT 2.0, which is basically we're on Smackdown, but with a whole bunch of people that were being thrust on TV that were learning as they go, you know, which isn't a bad thing because a lot of

people have just like just skyrocketed into sardom because of that. Well, it's sink or swim, right? Like some people are skyrocketed and some people, I feel like we're exposed because they were on TV and they weren't ready. Yeah. And I think you're going to see a lot of that still because they got to, they got to figure out who's going to work and who isn't going to work and who can adjust on the fly. And that's part of what Ron Smackdown is. If you can't change a finish of a match through headset, five minutes into a match,

we don't need you here. Which has happened to me. Which has happened to me. And that was the worst thing ever on TV is having to switch. I can't even imagine like you're you're selling something and the referees like telling you a new finish now. That's happened. And I remember going, that's that's the most panicked I had ever been in a match I think and are you like are you sure yes I'm sure but are you really sure so the finish it changed so many times before we got in the match and then when we got in the match the finish changed again and then they wanted aftermath with me and someone I'm not going to say the situation because I feel like everyone will figure it out once that happens but it was just like what what fuck I guess so all right come on uh and and and you you were trying to adjust to get there and the match turned out. Great. Thank goodness. Or else we would have been in catering.

Seeing a theme here, with all this said, in the story about the 20 chair superplex, is wrestling now fun again for you? Yeah, absolutely. I feel like for so long, I've just craved creativity without a filter, if that makes sense. And I'm getting that, but not only getting to do that, getting the support, of not only the backstage hands that help out with stuff, the companies that are putting on these matches, but the fan base again is like I'm getting the support of the people

that I thrive in front of with, you know, and like it's weird because like I find myself, Athena was always the bad guy, the heel, and like Ember was the baby face, which is so weird and flip-flopped on some level. But like it's hard for me to be the bad guy because the admiration is there, the support is there, and there's nothing better than knowing that everything you did cause someone

to elicit a response the way you wanted them to. And I feel like indie fans are just far more appreciative and understanding as far as like understanding. Like when you go through 21 chairs, how crazy that is, right? Not to mention I had to hop on a red eye and go halfway across the world from Portland to Iowa to wrestle Swirved Shane Shrickland the next night.

You know, so like, I do stuff because I know it's safe for me and the other person, but knowing that I did have to go and wrestle in another main event marquee match the next night. Yeah. I feel like people underestimated, like, hey, mama can still go

and I can give you everything you wanted it. It's so much more and then do it the next night, too. I'm going to sleep for like five days after that. But like, I've just been having fun. And I think that's what wrestling is. It's supposed to be fun and entertaining for everyone to enjoy. And I think sometimes in the chaos to make money and be fighting for a spotlight, which I feel like you genuinely shouldn't have to do unless it's showcasing your ability within a match.

Because a lot of it just happens backstage that like wrestling just needs to be fun for everyone. in all parties involved. And I'm having a blast. I am loving life. I am loving married life being able to talk to my fan base more often on Twitch. And I genuinely feel like wherever or whenever or whatever happens in the future for me, hopefully it'll be on a TV show soon. Hopefully it'll be in front of an indie crowd soon.

Like I genuinely don't know, but wherever my path takes me, I just know that I'm happy again and I'm motivated again to be better in the ring and out of the ring. I love that so much. But if you, if there was a point in time when you wanted to leave wrestling, is that still in you right now? Do you think like two, three, five years from now that? I don't, I don't know anymore because on some level I genuinely feel like I still have something to prove. Right. And because I think a lot of the comments. that have been made since the mass releases have happened again has driven me to that because there are people that never got the opportunities that I did.

Like, I won titles. I got to travel around the world. I got to wrestle in front of, you know, the European audience, German, Italy. Like I've been and done everything that I could possibly do in WW. Yeah, are there people I want to wrestle? Absolutely. Were their goals I still wanted to accomplish? Absolutely.

But if I look at my childhood and say, hey, I got to wrestle in W. I got to wrestle some of the best talent in the entire world. I got to win championships. I got to hang out with my friends. I got to do a lot of things where it is like I'm looking at some of these people that have kind of had similar paths to me, not the same, but that didn't get the same opportunities as me. And I and I say this a lot. I try not to bitch and moan because it could be worse. I could have gotten there and then been released two weeks later.

I could have gotten there and only had one TV match, then been gone, right? Like, that could have been me. So, like, I find it hard to complain a lot of the times about the stuff because when I look back at the checklist I had as a kid, it was be a WW wrestler, want a title, make friends, travel the world on someone else's times. And, you know, it's so funny that you say that. And then we look around you at all the things that you're passionate about in the room that it's hung up on the wall. I don't see wrestling titles. I don't see wrestling action figures.

That's my husband. Well, there's your husband. No, but like this is a game. I just find that really interesting. And this happens a lot where like, you're passionate about wrestling. You want to be a wrestler. You love it. And then you get into it. And you go, yeah, yeah, that's cool. That's my job. These are the things I'm passionate about now. So these are, this is my office. This is one room of many fandoms in the house. So we have a Harry Potter guest bedroom. How many rooms are in this house? A lot. A lot.

Thank you, WWE. I love, yes. So like, like I said, because of WWE, like I was able to, we actually purchased the house for the first time. And it's massive. And my husband is telling me it's more space. Everything's bigger in Texas. It is. And it's so much cheaper here.

Except I'm sorry, Waterberger, not for me. It's okay. You're not the first person to say that. In and out. Far superior. Sorry, everyone. Well, like, In-N-Out is in-and-out. Like, What-A-Burger is What-A-Burger. I don't think they're the same caliber of fast food, but I do love What-A-Burger. So, like, but I understand because most people from, are you from California? I live in California. I'm from Canada. Okay. So I have friends from Canada and California that do not like Waterburger.

And it's those specific to. And there you go. But like I have a- You live in a house with 19 bedrooms from the sounds of it. Sure. or 19, give or take, maybe a lot less. But I have a Harry Potter room. I have a bedroom of villains. I have a Dungeons and Dragons board game room. But my gym slash bar area that we're going to make into a smoothie bar, right? And so. Jim and a bar together. My goodness. You are living life. It was a bar. And then we were just like, we don't drink that much. So we made it a gym. And we're going to put a smoothie machine in there. But that is kind of where all the wrestling memorabilia goes.

Okay. You know, so I, so I do take pride in everything that I've accomplished. And I think that that's important on some level to say like, because I feel like sometimes, I don't want this to come off as me being negative toward WWE. It's just that when, how do I want to phrase this? When someone says that you are considered dead weight and you have given everything. thing that you possibly could to make everything work, at some point in time that person has to realize maybe you just underutilized or didn't know how to use the people that were in your employ. Right. And like I said, I'm not throwing shade. I'm not being negative about it. I'm trying not to because I'm genuinely happy. I think more than anything, I was just so angry about the way

things transpired that like it led me to leave. And it's funny because like I consistently have to say, not we parted ways it was mutual. Nope, we parted ways. It was mutual. Nope. It was very mutual. You know, like, oh, you got fired. Yep. Sure. Let's go with that. That's easier because I'm tired of me explain myself. But hopefully this comes out. I hope it looks at me back in a positive light, right? That I was just like, I tried everything. I really did. And I was just fed up. You know, there's only so much you can do. Well, now, you know, now the power is in your hands. So I'm so excited to see what's next for you. Hopefully Dungeons and Dragons.

Hopefully more video. Well, like currently I'm working on trying to get a Dungeons and Dragons show up and running. So that will be fun because that is my jam. I play like four or five games a week at this point in time with different people. And it's just an avenue for me to branch out and just enjoy being around different types of people and role playing and puzzle solving and that type of thing. I'm trying to branch out into acting and voiceover, which I've had a couple of auditions that went well. I'm trying to branch out more into video game and do mocap and stuff for that. I just dibble dabble in a little bit of everything. You've got a lot of options in front of you.

And I actually run a wrestling school too. So I do everything that makes me happy now. And on some level, I wouldn't have been able to do that or I wouldn't have had the comments. confidence to do that without WWE. Like, I still think I'm supposed to be appearing on Master Chef Jr. at some point in time this season. So I've gotten to do so many amazing things. And, like, I'm very appreciative and I'm very thankful. But I think wherever my next step is and wherever that takes me, I'm just ready to tackle

it a thousand percent. And is it going to be wrestling? I hope so. If not, the sky's the limit at this point in time. Like I'm just being optimistic and taking it day by day. And I think that's the most important thing because we just don't know at this point in time where the next gig is coming from, where the next paycheck is coming from, where my next match is going to be. And like day by day. Yeah, day by day.

So I end every conversation with the same question. I think you'll enjoy this. I love gratitude. And I wake up every day. I say out loud three things that I'm grateful for. So I end every interview with this. So what are three things in your life that you're grateful for right now? My husband, my cats, and just my optimism and positivity.

There we go. Thank you so much. What a great conversation. Thank you for your honesty about everything, too. Thank you. No, sometimes it's really hard for me to just kind of break the shell a little bit. And I feel like it's kind of been long enough. And I'm just ready to move on and move past it.

And like there's no hard feelings either way it goes. Like, so, yeah. So there we go. It's funny because when we started this interview, I told her it would be like 40, 45 minutes. And as you can see from the runtime, it was quite a bit longer than that. I love hearing her story, the ups, the downs, everything in between.

And I can't wait to see what's next for her. Until then, though, until we see her on TV, next. I'm guessing it's going to be a lot of Dungeons and Dragons. I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. Please snap a screenshot. Let us know that you're listening. Let us know what you thought of this. Tag us on social media so we can share it. She's at Athena Palmer underscore FG. I'm at Chris Van Fleet and I'll leave you with this quote from Eric Thomas. I love this. Stop looking for permission to pursue your dreams. They are your dreams and you don't need a co-signer to chase them. Hmm, be great. Be grateful. We'll see you on the next one for some more insight.

The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them?

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