Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Eric Bischoff: I’d turn Roman Reigns heel, WWE return

Episode Date: June 27, 2019

Eric Bischoff chats with Chris in June 2018 about his legacy in the wrestling world. He said he probably would never return to WWE, that if he did he would turn Roman Reigns heel, how he will probably never be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, his thoughts on Smackdown moving to FOX and much more! Audio equipment provided by Samson Technologies: bit.ly/CVVSamson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Look at you, man. What's the powerful question. Woo! This is the Chris Van Bleach Show. Chris Van Bleach Show. Ladies and gentlemen. Chris. Well, as Justin Roberts and the other announcer man,

just said there. This is the Chris Van Fleet show. I am Chris Van Fleet. Thank you for downloading this episode wherever you are. However you're listening, whether you're in your car, on the treadmill, sitting at your desk at work, in bed. I guess that means we're in bed together, but not like that. You know what I mean? That's cool. Thank you. We're just four days in as we launched this episode. And thank you. This is insane for making the CVV show a top 200 podcast on the Apple Podcasts app in the sports and recreation category. This is huge, and we're just getting started, people. So I've got a whole back catalog of interviews that I've been uploading or I've been getting

ready to upload. This interview with Eric Bischoff was one of them. I mean, he's one of the greatest minds in the wrestling business. It was such a pleasure to talk to him. And when the news came out today that Eric Bischoff was named as the executive director of Monday Night Raw and Paul Heyman, the executive of Smackdown Live, we were going to upload this anyway. Then we had to re-record the intro to kind of include this.

I mean, this is big news. This is going to cause some big changes in the wrestling world. And this is an interview that we did with Eric Bischoff last summer. And it makes it so much more timely because we're talking about a lot of stuff that's still current today. Bischoff's a brilliant guy with a ton of great ideas. And the way he thinks about the wrestling world is completely different from a lot of other people. I can't wait to hear what you think of this one. But before we get to it, the CVV show is brought to you by Green Road CBD products.

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So once again, this interview was done last June. Bischoff was hosting an event at the Hard Rock Casino, here in Hollywood, Florida with Rick Flair and Hulk Hogan. And yes, I did an interview with both of them. At the same time, it was incredible. You can see that on my YouTube page. With Bischoff here, we touched on a lot of interesting topics, including him wanting to turn Roman Rain's heel,

and also him saying that he probably wouldn't ever go back to WWE, which is very interesting now. You could say this interview is too sweet. Here it is, my chat with Eric Bischoff. Well, thanks for taking the time to chat with us today. Glad to be here. So it's Legends of the Ring tonight. You're hosting this, you're emceeing this?

I'm emceeing it along with Jimmy Hart, the mouth of the south. I'm going to be up on stage. I'll be asking a lot of the questions of both Hulk and Rick, and Jimmy will be out in the audience talking to the fans. So we'll tag team him. So it's Hogan and Flair here tonight. And when you do events like these, what's the biggest question that those guys get asked? Well, you know, tonight's a little bit different.

And we're going to obviously take questions from the fans towards the end of the night, but I'm going to do my best based on how long I've known both of them and what I know of their lives. To ask questions that the audience hasn't really heard before or to get a look into their lives and their careers and their perspectives on the business that perhaps hasn't been discussed before. So it's a little different than just a Q&A. So give us a little insight on Rick Flair that most fans might not know. Well, I don't know that I have any insight to Rick Flair, but like many, of the fans are going to be there tonight. I have questions about his career. You know,

like one of the things I'm looking forward to asking him is, you know, he's a legend now, along with Hulk Hogan, and that's why we're all going to be here tonight. But, you know, I want to know who did Rick Flair look up to as a legend when Rick was beginning his career? You know, what, at what point in Rick's career or Hulk's career did they feel like, wow, this may not be the right thing for me, or maybe it is the right thing for me, you know, how do they feel about those points in their in their careers when they had doubts? like we all do in our careers. There's got to be that moment when you go,

oh, I don't know, should I be doing this? So I want to get into those types of personal questions and perspectives. Can I ask you that question? When was that moment for you when you're like, maybe I shouldn't be doing this? About halfway through 1997. And then you're like, I don't know, I don't know where it goes from here? No, I'm just kidding.

You know, once I took the job, you know, at WCW in, And actually prior to that, once I started working for Vergina, I knew that I loved the business. I wanted to learn more. I wanted to experience more. So there was really at no point did I doubt whether I should be doing it or not. There was a point in my career, towards the end, especially when I just felt like the way things were going. I wasn't too sure I wanted to do it anymore, but it wasn't because of my lack of confidence. I've been listening to your podcast, 83 weeks, and I want to say congratulations for the great success you guys have had.

the amount of knowledge that you guys put out in those couple hours every week is is unbelievable well you know i've been in the business for 30 years and conrad's been a fan for probably 25 years and he does his research you know i kind of love him slash hate him for it if you listen to the show you know what i mean because he holds my feet to the fire i mean he doesn't he doesn't let me slide and i appreciate that it doesn't sound like i do but i do because it's entertaining right He'll ask you like about specific dates. He'll be like August 21st, 1997, and I don't, like, you remember most of this, which is actually impressive. Most of it, but not all of it.

You know, and the fans, it's funny because, you know, the people that follow me on social media, of course, they bust my chops. The minute I say, I don't recall, it's like, oh, I'm going to get blistered on the internet because he'll ask me one question that I don't remember the answer to. And I don't, I don't bluff my way through it. Yeah. If I don't know, I'll just say, look, I don't know. I don't remember. I don't make stuff up like a lot of people do. But, man, do I hear from the fans when that happens? I try.

How involved are you in the world of wrestling now? I'm not at all. I mean, I'm on the outside looking in like all the fans are. You know, I feel like I had a good run. I get to do some amazing things and work with some amazing people. And I'm really grateful for that. But I'm just like everybody else now. I'm on the outside looking in.

As a fan, are you watching like the rest of us? Are you watching Raw and Smackdown every week? No. Ain't going to lie. No BS here. No, I don't. You know, I drop in if there's something going on that I'm particularly interested in or, you know, a character that I like following.

A friend of mine is involved in something that's kind of high profile. I'll drop in. I'll check it out. I'll make sure I catch it on, you know, a replay somewhere somehow. I stay alive on top of things in social media. but I can't sit and I can't sit and watch anything for three hours you know or two hours

but you were the one that made Nitro three hours well I didn't want to I was forced to it wasn't my idea who in the world of wrestling do you still keep in touch with on a regular basis Hulk Hogan is still my best friend to this day I stay in touch with DDP occasionally I'm a horrible phone

friend anybody that knows me even my family you know my brother and sister who I love dearly I probably only talked to on a phone once or twice a year but I you know I stay in touch with text messages kind of impersonal but you know whatever but I stay in touch with Hulk DDP wow I guess that's it but you know I'm like I'm friends

you know when I go to L.A. I'll call Steve Austin and we'll have a beer at a burger or something and you know I stay in touch with people and I have good relationships with certain people but I just Ernest the Kat Miller is another guy that I really dig Sonny Ono you know are still friends of mine So there are people to stay in touch with, but not many. Is it hard for you as a fan to watch the product and just appreciate what's going on rather than going,

yeah, I would have booked this a little bit differently. You know, I never analyze it from a creative point of view. I never try to be an armchair quarterback when it comes to creative because, you know, I was on the other end of that. I know what that's like. But what I learned, having done it, is that if you're not behind the scenes, if you don't know all of the variables, you know, Like if I was writing for you and you were a performer in WWE, if I don't know what your strengths are,

if I don't know what your weaknesses are, if I don't know where you're at mentally and emotionally, it's too hard as an observer, as a fan, to say, well, this is exactly what I would be doing with this guy, because you don't know, you only know the tip of the iceberg. Sure. Some people are not ready emotionally or from a confidence perspective, but they don't have enough depth and range in their character quite yet

to give them that push that, you know, the audience may feel like they deserve. But if you can't look under the hood and see how all the pieces are working together, you don't know for sure. So I stay away from that. With that said, do you think a guy like Roman Raines is over? Like he's getting a reaction. He's not getting the reaction they're hoping for. But do you think he's over? You know, over is a subjective term.

It means different things to different people. Clearly, you know, he's high profile. if that's what over means to some people. Is he a fan favorite? If that's what you mean by over, no. Is he got the right kind of heat that is constructive, that can be used in order to advance a storyline? Questionable.

But I don't think that that's Roman's fault. I think the way he's been packaged and the way he's been presented and to a degree, dare I say, because I don't like to be critical, but he has been, there's no other way to say it. He's been forced down everybody's throat for two years. But no matter how good you are, I don't care if you're Vince McMahon, if you're Steven Spielberg, you know, if you're William Frickin Shakespeare, it doesn't matter.

The audience is only going to go so far, and you can only force that fish to swim upstream until it just gets tired and has to go the other way. Would a heel turn help him because he does have that momentum? Yeah, I wish they would turn him heel. wish they would embrace that. You know, the one thing that I do, and this is going to sound critical, because I guess it is, but I really hate when I hear people say, oh, we're going to let the fans decide. That's like the dumbest stuff I've ever heard.

Is this YouTube or where is it? You can say whatever you want. I can say YouTube? Yeah. Okay. It's a dumbest shit I've ever heard. But, you know, can you imagine if you were writing a movie, right, or directing a movie? And you went to the movie studio and you said, look, I got this script.

And we're going to cast, you know. the greatest actor that we can afford. But I'm not really sure if I want him to be a good guy or a bad guy. We're going to let the audience decide. I mean, that'd be the last movie you ever wrote or directed. And that's kind of what they're doing with Roman. And I just don't buy that, oh, we're going to let the audience decide stuff. You know, I don't believe the talent really believes it.

I think it's a way to kind of cover up the fact that the creative, you know, that's being provided to that talent, probably less than up to par. But whatever. I think if it was me, I'd make him a heel. If he can't talk, I'd find somebody to talk for him. You know, Paul Heyman, Brock Lesnar. Perfect.

You know, I mean, Brock, when he starts talking, immediately the illusion vanishes. He's just like, wow. But find him a good manager, find him a heel character manager that can speak for him, put him in the right position so that a baby face can benefit from all that heat. Because the fans would buy that.

That would be great story. But for whatever reason, they keep kicking that fish upstream. Although I guess that there's the idea that if they turned him heel, then people might start cheering him. Well, that's because they put themselves in that position. They box themselves into that corner by forcing, trying to force the audience to buy something they don't want. They did it to themselves, meaning the WWE creative. And yes, you, Vince McMahon, did it to yourselves by trying to force something that the audience didn't want.

With all this said, you clearly have so much knowledge about the business. I don't have knowledge, brother. I have an opinion. There's two different things. I think you have knowledge and an opinion. All right, I'll go with that. When will we see you inducted in the WWU Hall of Fame? Probably never.

Oh, come on. No, I don't see it. Really? No, I don't see it. How could you not be? You're such, you know, raw is what it is because of Nitro being what it was. You know, everybody's got opinions about that. I have my own.

Whatever. I don't think about it. You know, people, you know, ask me about it in interviews, and I have to respond to it, but it's just something I think about. and I personally don't ever see it happening. There is a moment in WWA, a very specific moment that I don't know if people have asked you about that I'd like to ask you about. And if it happened today, it would be so incredibly controversial and you were part of it. It's Vince McMahon saying the N-word to John Sina.

You're part of that. You weren't on camera at that moment, but when he said that, what was your reaction? It was a different time, you know, culturally, politically, everything was different back then. You know, in the context in which that scene was written and executed, it was a little sensitive at that time. Now it would be nuclear. It's toxic at this point. But again, it's different culture, different time.

And I think people need to be careful when they start looking at things like that. Just put it in the context, and particularly put it in the context of the time frame that it occurred. We weren't nearly as sensitive then as we are now. And it was almost a parody of itself. And when you start doing parody, when you start doing comedy, it's treacherous because you could step over the line, as we've seen recently. But especially back then, it was just a lot more latitude. Was that scripted?

Well, I wasn't part of it, so I don't know. But I would guess it probably was. It must have been because Booker T was then in that segment. Tell me you didn't just say that. Most everything in WWE is scripted, so I would have a hard time accepting anybody's explanation that that particular scene wasn't. What is your take on SmackDown moving to Fox? That's really interesting. I mean, we could do an entire one-hour show on that, in my opinion.

You know, number one, I think it's awesome, you know, network television. It's a holy grail. Number one. Number two, Friday nights. It's not a good TV night. You know, they're going after that younger demo. which is I think probably why Fox, you know, was excited about getting that Smackdown brand. However, you know, I still remember when I was 20, you know, 25, 28, even younger than that.

You know, Friday nights was the night I was out trying to get late. I was doing stuff on Friday night. I was out with my friends. I was, you know, whatever, you know, I wasn't sitting at home watching television. And I don't think anything's changed, you know. Now maybe because most people are getting their entertainment off their laptops. and computers and maybe people are spending more time at home now than they used to. But I don't see that, man.

The other thing that I'm curious about with regard to that is you've got Raw, which is still the flagship show, in the opinion of many, which is over on USA Network, which is owned by NBC Universal. And now you've got SmackDown, which is on network television owned by Fox Network. They don't, they're competitive networks. Now what's going to happen when the WWE, which traditionally has been able to cross-pollinate talent and do all kinds of cute little things creatively? Now what's going to happen when they're going to, WWE is going to want to say, now we're going to take this guy that's really getting over here on Fox,

and we're going to put them over here on Raw for a night. I think some Fox executives are going to go, whoa, whoa, whoa, I can give you a billion reasons over the next five years why we don't want that to happen. So that's the kind of thing that I think politically is going to be an interesting manifestation of those choices. And if SmackDown ends up being in more households than Raw, does SmackDown now become the A show? I don't, you know, look, Raw is always going to be perceived. Well, I say always for a long time. Raw is going to be perceived to be the A show because it has been for so long.

And while you may get a couple million more homes, perhaps, as a result of being a lot. on a Fox network versus USA cable, it won't really matter when it comes to perception from the fans. So I don't think so. But I really, and here's the other thing, you know, having been there in a way, once network executives start going, hey, what do you, why are you doing that on this show, but you're doing this on that show? Why aren't you doing what you're doing over there over here? once the network executives, because they all kind of hide in their offices,

you know, they cover their ass, they don't want to create too much of an issue, until things start going a little south. Yeah. Once the ratings start getting a little soft or there's any kind of a downturn, then all of a sudden they're going to get brave, they're going to come out of their offices, and everybody's going to have an opinion. That's when it's going to be interesting to see what's going to happen.

I think what's going to be really interesting is live television is such, it doesn't happen very often, other than like sporting events and now raw, or wrestling in general. How big is the deal going to be after this deal expires, do you think? Oh, man, I can't look forward to the... I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, being around when that happens. How old is this year? It's five years.

I'll be almost 70 years old. I don't look that far ahead, brother. You look great for your age, by the way. Thank you. You should see my liver. What's your take on everyone using Too Sweet Now, which was obviously an NWO thing? It was an NWO thing, and I think it probably had its action. beginnings with the click, perhaps, in WWE.

But it was never a part of content. It was never a part of programming. That was made popular on Nitro. But I think it's another attempt, not an attempt, it's another effort by WWE to kind of own that because everything that was associated with NWO, probably still in the darkest, deepest recesses of their collective egos and minds. They still can't stand the fact that the NWO was the hottest thing

that's happened to professional wrestling in the last 20 freaking years, and anything that reminds them of that kind of makes them go, boom. I think we'll ever see you back as like a GM or something like that? No, I think that that ship is sailed, brother. Really? I just feel like if we heard your music, there'd be a massive pop for that. And there might be for a night or two, you know,

but I've kind of been there and I've done that. With a character like a general manager, there's only so much you can do creatively. I don't wrestle. Clearly now, I'm especially not going to wrestle. And with a kind of an authority figure character, there's only about a dozen things you can do. And then you spend your time trying to redo those same dozen things, 15 or 20 different ways so they don't look like the same things over and over and over again. You know, I think the audience, we saw it at Raw 25 when I came out. It got a great reaction. And I appreciate it very much. It means a lot to me. But by about the third or fourth time that music played, people go to, oh, God, it's him again.

He's back again? I'm back. And he's older than ever. Oh, for God's sake. Well, we started the interview asking what the questions that Flair and Hogan often get asked. What's the question when people see you that you get asked more than anything? Oh, whose idea was it really for the NWO? How hard was it to get Hogue Hogan to turn into a bad guy?

How great of a kiss she was Miss Elizabeth? Yeah, that's a pretty good question. That's a good question. She was great. Eric, such a pleasure to talk to you. My pleasure. And 83 weeks, just keep killing it with that. Thank you, buddy.

Appreciate it. Well, there you go. What an interesting conversation. I can't wait to do another one with Eric Bischoff again, hopefully soon. He's on the record there saying he'd turn Roman heels, so will he actually do it now? Also, there's no question that he'll be a Hall of Famer one day. No question. Big thanks to our sponsors, Greenroads.

Use the code Chris 15 at greenroadsworld.com and for amazing audio equipment for your podcast or the one that you're thinking of starting. And you should start. Go to samson tech.com. This is one of so many interviews I've done in the past that will be making their way on to the Chris Van Fleet podcast, the Chris Van Fleet Show. So keep an eye out for those. And really, any of the other interviews you see, on my YouTube channel will end up being on here eventually. So as I wrap this up, a friend of mine said I should have a catchphrase when I end these.

And I'm like, I don't know. I don't really have a catchphrase. I mean, I say vague goals get vague results, but that's not really a good way to end the show. So I'll leave you with this. It'll be a tease of an interview I did in the past that will be making its way onto the audio version, the podcast version soon. From John Cena, control the controllable. Mm-hmm. In everything you do in your life, control the controllable.

We'll see you soon. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. Back in the 80s, there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock, but there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley. Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video.

They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of them? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987. I can't believe he's doing this. Hammer Allie. Follow and listen.

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