Insight with Chris Van Vliet - Eric Bischoff says AEW vs NXT is not a war, thoughts on Goldberg and Sting still wrestling, 83 Weeks

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Eric Bischoff is a wrestling personality, entrepreneur, television producer and co-host of the podcast "83 Weeks". He joins Chris Van Vliet from his home in Cody, Wyoming to share the story of how he broke into the wrestling business, the lessons he's learned from working in WCW, WWE and TNA, mistakes he's made along the way, his thoughts on Sting and Goldberg still wrestling, the jobs he had before he got into wrestling, his career as a television producer after WCW was bought by WCW, what he's learned working with Conrad Thompson and much more! Support the show by supporting our sponsors! Get your energy back, sleep better, and block out the unhealthy effects of blue light withBLUblox. Get free shipping worldwide and 15% off by going to https://blublox.com/CVVor enter code CVV15 at checkout. If you enjoyed this episode, could I ask you to please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcast/iTunes? It takes less than a minute and makes a huge difference in helping to spread the word about the show and also to convince some hard-to-get guests. For more information about Chris and INSIGHT go to https://chrisvanvliet.com Follow CVV on social media:  Instagram:instagram.com/ChrisVanVliet Twitter:twitter.com/ChrisVanVliet Facebook:facebook.com/ChrisVanVliet YouTube:youtube.com/ChrisVanVliet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Oh, man, welcome to the show. I'm Chris Van Fleet. Thanks for being with us on another audio adventure. Eric Bischoff on the show today. You, of course, know him most recently for hosting 83 weeks, one of the top podcasts in the world, but he's worked behind the scenes and as a performer for WCW,

WWE, and TNA, and he just has a wealth of knowledge that he's so generously bestowed upon us during this conversation. And he also admitted that he told a few stories here that he's never told before. And I mean, think about this, with the amount of interviews that he's done

over the course of his career, the amount of podcasts he's done since he started 83 weeks, that's saying a lot. That is saying a lot. Take a screenshot, tag us on social media so we know you're listening. Tag me. I'm at Chris Van Fleet.

And Eric is at E. Bischoff. And if you haven't subscribed or followed the show yet, please take a second right now to do that so you don't miss out on what we have coming up. And I was going to say this until the end of the episode. But since we have Eric Bischoff on today, next week, we have Vince Rousseau. on the show. So Bischoff one week, Russo the next. Oh man, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss out.

And remember that goal that I set of 2000 reviews before my birthday, before May 19th? Oh, we're getting close. We're getting close to both. We're at 1802 on the reviews and we're two months away from my birthday. So this seems, well, this seems like we're going to hit it like at the same time. Like the 2000th review may come on May 19th. Kane's favorite day.

Snicks Charlito says, what a podcast. I love this guy's podcast. He's always such a positive guy, and it's hard not to be in a good mood listening to it. Shout me out, dog.

Well, there you go. Dog, Snicks Charlito. You have been shouted out, and I should point out that he spelled dog, DAWG, like a Randy Jackson American Idol dog. You know?

That's a no from me, dog. My guest today needs, needs no introduction. So let's get right into it. Please welcome the one and only Eric Bischoff. Eric, thank you so much for joining me. It is indeed my pleasure, sir. The pleasure is all mine. Thank you for carving out the time for this. It looks like you're in some sort of a, almost like a log cabin or something like this. Well, that's actually through the miracles of Zoom and streaming. That's actually, a photograph of my living room. I'm not actually in my living room. I'm in an adjacent, it's a bunk house. Well, we call it a bunk house. It's a guest house. But it literally looks like a

bear log cabin where I'm literally sitting right now. So I use this fancy background to kind of fool people. Well, you fooled me. You got me. You're in Wyoming, right? Yeah, I live in a small town code Cody, Wyoming, founded by Buffalo Bill Cody. One of the greatest showman on earth at the tournament 19th or turn of the 20th century. But yeah, we're about 50 miles outside of Yellowstone National Park in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming. How fitting is it that you're in a city that's founded by a showman and you are somewhat of a showman yourself?

Thank you for that. And I'm actually fascinated by, well, I love Western history, anyway, American Western history. Fascinated by the Native American history and culture. And it's one of the reasons I've built. house here back in 1998. But through doing a bunch of research about Buffalo Bill Cody, I'm actually working, this is more of a hobby of mine than a job or a real goal, but I'm actually working on a screenplay about the history, the life and times of Buffalo Bill Cody and how they're so relevant

to really what's going on today. There was a time when Buffalo Bill Cody was, he was Elvis Presley. He was Muhammad Ali. He was the most well-known American in the world back in the late 1890s, early 1900s. You often write screenplays? Is that something you frequently do? No, I've never done one before. But that's why I say it's a hobby, not a profession. Well, for now, for now. But as you may or may not know, I'm involved in a movie project for Netflix. And just beginning to try to understand the very process, the foundation of that industry

and how it's different than television is really interesting. to me and obviously the script writing process is interesting. So I'm kind of taking what I'm learning along the way and doing my own research and trying to apply it. But again, it's just a hobby. It's just what I do. It's just what I need to kind of stimulate my brain without, you know, doing anything too challenging. So in 1998, the height of WCW, why did you decide that you wanted to build there in Wyoming? You know, I've, well, as a kid, I grew up in Detroit. You know, I'm 65 years old. So when I was in my, when I was eight, nine, 10, 12 years old, you know, that was in the 60s. And television, believe it or not, was still relatively new. It wasn't new as a technology,

but it was new in terms of, you know, middle America being able to afford one and have one. In my home, I remember in the early 60s, you know, nobody in my neighborhood had more than one television, you know. The idea of having two televisions was like having four cars. So television it was new and fascinating to me and I grew up on it. And as a kid growing up in Detroit, I was, I watched a lot of westerns, you know, with my dad, my mom and my dad, you know, like Bananza and the Virginian and, you know, raw hide and all those. It was always portrayed such a beautiful part of the country in the mountains. And I love, you know, elk and deer and antelope. And the idea of being able to get out and go out to my barn and ride a horse off of my property was like

the thing of fantasies for me when I was a kid. So when I got a chance as I got older to decide where I wanted to live my life, this was where I wanted to live my life because of those impressions. Wow. So is where you're sitting right now? Is that where you do 83 weeks from? Yeah. Yeah. Congratulations on what you and Conrad have built with that.

Like that's, it's mind blowing how big that's become. It is. And I, you know, I'm not just saying this to be kind or to try to be nice. but that so much credit goes to Conrad and the team that Conrad has assembled because it's not just the podcast. As you know, this is the easy part and the fun part. It's the work behind the scenes if you're going to take it to, as they say, the next level. And Conrad is thinking it way beyond the next level and his team. And he's done so by putting together such a great, great group of people.

So I'm just grateful to be along for the ride. The last time that I interviewed you was three years ago. So the show was like really just starting to like find its footing. And I thought, this show can only last for 83 weeks. I mean, it's in the name. It's only going to last for 83 weeks. And look at you guys go. You know, I don't know if you've ever had this, but most people I know have,

you ever had that dream when you were younger that you showed up to school and you forgot to put your pants on? That's. And I guess it's a little bit of an imposter syndrome kind of, you know, manifestation. But sometimes I, that's how I feel. It's like, oh, my gosh. you know, oh my gosh, we're going to run out of stuff to talk about. But the truth is, we won't and never will because if you listen to my podcast, you know I love to talk.

Well, that's what you're so good at. I mean, you've always been great at talking from doing commentary to doing some incredible promos. Was this something that was innate for you? Or is is it something that was learned? I think it's a little bit of one and a lot of the other. I think it's a little bit of interest, therefore, I guess, a little bit of ability, you know, that comes along with having done, you know, like I said, television is one thing. This is completely different. So I guess I was, I'm comfortable, you know, that part I'm good at. But learning how to be a good, especially learning how to do my podcast was a learning curve for me. I made a lot of mistakes in the few months with Conrad, especially in the very, very beginning.

Part of it was just my own insecurities, I guess. I was a little defensive. And part of that, I'm not justifying it. It was what it was or is what it is, probably to a degree still. But, you know, I assumed when Conrad and I first started doing this podcast, that it was going to be, the tone of it and the format was going to be one of a combative nature. You know, kind of like he was the prosecutor. and I was the witness on the stand, you know, right.

And so inherently, the showman part of me, that little part of me that, you know, was comfortable with this, I guess assumed I was supposed to be kind of a character. But the larger part of it was, and this is what I had to learn to really deal with on a personal level, was that I was defensive. You know, I had spent so many years being attacked in the press. I'm not calling it the press. It's giving them too much credit. but in the digital media, in the print media by people who write about wrestling.

There were so many false things and just things that were so completely off base that I just, for 30 years, I've been walking around like this, man. I've been in a corner with my chin-tucked and my hands up. And for the first couple months, it was that way with Conrad. And I don't think the audience really liked it that much. I mean, there were times when they did because they liked the combative nature of a conversation sometimes. but it wasn't until I really just let my guard down.

And that's because of Conrad. He's really good at finding a way to get you to talk about things in a way that you might not talk about in public or in a way that you would talk about them in public. He gets you to have a real conversation. Now, once I started having those real conversations, I realized just how defensive I had been in the previous podcast. And now they're just like flowing. Now it's the most fun thing I do all week is either the podcast or when I do something on, you know, ad-freeshows.com. But that's taken a while. It's taken me a good year to get to this point.

Is there a part of you that wants to go back to some of those early episodes and redo those topics? To redo them, yeah, I don't want to listen to those shows, though, because I would get mad at myself for just missing a good opportunity. I was like, why did you say it that? Why did you? Oh, my God, I want an ass. So I don't want to put myself through that. You know, I try not to do that if I don't have to. But, you know, it would be kind of fun to go back and revisits, you know, from a different perspective, some of the shows that we've already covered.

I'm just blown away by the amount of knowledge that you've retained. I mean, we're talking 20 plus years ago. And you're remembering like these tiny, minute details, these conversations that happened. I can barely remember what happened last month. Well, part of that is, part of that is the name. of the subject material, if they're conversations that I had and they were important, you know, points or important conversations or conversations that were part of big moments in wrestling, of course I remember those.

Sure. But ironically, you know, there's a lot of things I don't remember, you know, especially when it comes to details of shows and timelines, because as I try to tell people, you know, I've produced over 5,000 hours of television in my career, over half of it live. and an extended period of time. And for me, it all kind of blends together in a kaleidoscope. You know, there's just, and there's only, you know, very few moments that really stand out to me in a real clear way. Or I have to do a fair amount of research.

You know, when Conrad says, okay, we're going to go back to 1995 and cover this. I literally have to go back and do as much research as probably anybody else that isn't even familiar with that event, just to jog my memory. So it's not like floating around in there my head. You know, if you and I were to talk about some of this stuff, you don't want a restaurant, I wouldn't remember anything. But because I prep a little bit for the shows, it makes it sound like I remember. Did you journal at all during that time? No, no.

Fuck, I never write anything down. No, no, no, I'd never. If we, oh, he has the 83 weeks mug. It's perfect. Oh, hey. Well, it disappeared at my drum key. There it is. I'm a horror, Chris.

I don't know what you've heard about me, but I will pimp anything out. You are a true wrestling promoter. That's how it's done. I can't help it. I can't help it. If we take it back, Eric, what did you think you were going to be growing up? What did you want to be? Oh, wow.

Certainly it changed a lot, but I think that during my most formative years, and I consider that between the ages of like, 12 and maybe 16. There was four years there where I was really just starting to think about, like when I was 10, the only thing I thought about is, you know, what kind of bike I'm going to get for Christmas next year, right?

But by the time I was 12, I started, you know, I was like, bam, a couple more years I'm going to drive. And now, oh,

I've got to get a job. And then, well, man, then I'm going to graduate. You know, you start thinking about the future when you're 12 differently than you do or I did when I was like eight or nine. And I was fortunate.

to be influenced very positively by a young man. Well, he was a young man then, but to me, he was older. I was about 12 or 14. He was like 10 years older than me. His name was Bob Reciopi. Bob was, he was 24, 25 of the time, very successful in the advertising industry. Super great guy, athletic. And he became a mentor to me.

My father had been paralyzed, you know, at a very early age. He was in his late 20s when I was very, very young. So Bob was the, you know, it was kind of like a big brother, surrogate father when it came to doing physical thing. My dad and I had a great relationship and just wasn't able to do a lot of things with me that I wanted to do. And he wanted me to do. So Bob got to took over that role. But Bob was also, like I said, he was very successful. He was an entrepreneur. He was just, he believed he could, any pass away several years ago. But it's why I talk about him in the past tense. He believed he could accomplish anything. You know, he, he encouraged. me when I was like 14 to read the book by Dale Carnegie, how to win friends and influence people. So I read that book when I was 14.

And it had a profound impact on me, not only my interest in sales, but my interest in engaging people. And it was then that I started thinking about, not television or movies or anything like that, but thinking about advertising. I was going to be an advertising executive. for a while.

Then where did it go from there? Did you actually get into that? No, but you know what? No, I never did. Technically, I never got into advertising. It took me right into sales because so much of what I read as a 14-year-old from Dale Carnegie, which was like the godfather of sales books, right, how to be a good sales book. It's such a classic, yeah.

You know, it probably nurtured or increased my natural tendency to want to be an honest. entrepreneur. And that's what really shaped me later on. You know, and once I got to be about 16 or 17 and I started thinking about, you know, the things I wanted to do, it went from, oh, I don't want to own a construction company, which by the way I did. Oh, I wanted to be, I want to get my black belt and compete in martial arts on a national level. Oh, which by the way, I did. I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to become a sales manager. I wanted to do all these things and did them. you know, it was kind of an ADD approach to life, but it all probably started with my friend Bob Reciopi across the street and how to win friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie.

What came first for you? Was it broadcasting or was it wrestling? As, you know, I mean, career-wise? Yeah. Well, you can't call it broadcasting. You know, I started dabbling in front of the camera as a model. I did television commercials. I did print modeling. and catalog modeling and that kind of stuff. So that kind of, it's not really television, but it kind of got, it made me think about television differently. I started thinking, well, what if, you know,

what if instead of doing a commercial? I never shared that with anybody, so that's an exclusive here. But started thinking about it differently. And wrestling, honestly God, I stumbled into it. I never planned on getting into the wrestling business. I was always a wrestling fan. But the idea of being,

being involved in the business was something that was just not even remotely in my subconscious. So that, like I said, I just stumbled into. And then broadcasting was a manifestation of my early, you know, involvement in professional wrestling. It came afterwards. And the rest is, here we are. I mean, when you look at your path, it's so fascinating because there's not too many commentators that go on to be executive producer and then president of a wrestling company.

but you went in there, and it makes all the sense now with this entrepreneurial spirit that you have, you went in there basically going, I'm not just going to be a commentator. That must have been it. No, it really wasn't, Chris. I'll be honest with you. Not to get into my whole life story because it would take too long and people have already heard it. We've got all day. But when I first got to, when I first broke into the business with the AWA and Vernan, my job, I was in the office.

I was a sales and syndication. I was nowhere near the wrestling product or the production of it, right? Through a series of timing and coincidences, I ended up on camera as an announcer. Did that for a year or two with Vern. And then he basically, you know, ran out of money and went out of business. And for a period of time, I was dead broke. I was working for a guy who was broke. So, you know, as a result, I didn't see a paycheck for, you know, six, seven, eight months,

whatever it was. So by the time I got hired at WCW as an on-camera talent, I was so grateful for that gig, Chris. I would never have a spy. I didn't think about doing anything else. I didn't go there with the idea of, I'm not going to just settle for this. I'm going to become something else.

I was the guy that said, I'm so grateful for this job if you want me. You know, I'll take out of the trash at the end of the day if you need me to do that. The rest of it kind of happened, again, just naturally, I guess, organically over a period of time. You know, I feel like wrestling is kind of like one of those right place, right time type of thing.

And it seems like in your career, those opportunities just kind of opened up and you were the right guy at the right time. Well, it was, yes, I often say, you know, you can have all of the talents in the world, but if timing is working against you, it doesn't really matter. And conversely, on the opposite end, extreme opposite end of that spectrum. you can not really have a lot going on or be the right person for that job. But in that moment, you're in that right spot and that opportunity is there. Now, doesn't mean you're going to succeed with it.

You have to have the rest of the equation. You have to have the ability and the drive and the vision and the passion and all that. I did have the drive and the vision and the passion and enough experience, I guess, or knowledge to get considered in the first place. but man, timing, it's so important. It's so important. Bill Goldberg, if Bill Goldberg would have come along in 1993, he wouldn't have lasted three months.

Yeah. You know, Rock, Rock came at a perfect time. Not only did he come at a perfect time, but Rock found his real character at a perfect time. At a time when wrestling was at a fever pitch in terms of the zeitgeist of, you know, entertainment. it had never really been bigger than it was at that point. And he had the right people to work with at the right time and the right character.

But he had all the talent. So as talented as obviously Dwayne Johnson the person and rock the character was, or important as rocked the character was, a lot of that just had to do with timing. Yeah. Well, you look at timing on your career and you auditioned for WWE or WWF at the time earlier. Can you imagine how differently things would have gone had WWF hired you? Yeah. Chris, I very rarely think about the past unless it comes up during a conversation or podcast, obviously.

But when I do think of it, I always think of it in kind of a six degrees of separation way. I was going to get, what if, what if I would have gotten hired? maybe I would have done well there as an on-camera talent. I kind of think I would have. Yeah. Just track record wise. Sure. But, God, what if that would happen?

I would have never gone to WCW. I would have never, Nitro would have never happened. All right? Hulk Hogan and the WCW likely would have never, so many things would have likely never had. There would not have been a cruiserweight division. I mean, there's so many things you can look at and go well.

those were kind of important things that in one way, shape, or form still live today. No, that shit would happen. It's weird. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's just life in general, right? I feel like everything in our lives happen the way that they're supposed to happen. And then everything else just kind of falls in a line from there. I like to think of it that way, you know, and I try to, because it's a very optimistic way of looking at things.

You know, if something bad happens to you, you know, don't worry about it. Just move on. Get over it. Don't dread it. You know, fear nothing, dread nothing. all will be good or something along those lines according to Winston Churchill. But yeah, I like to think of it that way. But it's so fascinating to look back, you know.

When you were in WCW, when did you really start to feel the momentum that you guys had? It came in waves. You know, it's, I would say the first gentle breeze started happening in 94, you know, when I had the support of Ted Turner to go ahead and try to acquire Hulk Hogan. And getting that support from Ted that early on in my tenure was kind of a real shot in the arm. Yeah. Obviously, when Hogan came, a lot of things changed in a very positive way. Not so much in terms of ratings, because I know that's what people that like to write about

and talk about wrestling off and just jump to. Now, the ratings weren't really, didn't really reflect a tremendous amount of of optimism, but the business to business side of WCW, our relationships with advertisers and potential advertisers really changed dramatically. Our relationship with in the, we could have conversations about, you know, sponsorships that we were never able to have before. So there was quite a bit of momentum that I could really feel, but it was all on the office. It wasn't on the screen.

It wasn't in ticket sales. It wasn't in buy rates, right? Yeah. And then, of course, when Nitro happened, that's when it was like, whoa, that's not a gentle breeze. That's an 80 mile an hour gust. Here we go. We're going to windsurf our way to the top on this baby. Were you in communication with Ted Turner frequently?

Ted would often call, not every week, but usually once a week, he'd call me on Tuesdays after we launched Nitro, usually about 430 Eastern. he was just giddy. It was just, it's just funny, you know, when I think back at it now, because it was Ted Turner. It was one of the most powerful people in media in the world of that time, and he would call me up when the nitro ratings would come out. He was just giddy. So that was it, though. You know, beyond those types of calls and passing, I maybe had in total three or four meetings with Ted, my whole career there. I went to a Christmas party or two with him,

corporately, you know, business. Sure. But other than that, no. It's not like you weren't being invited to his vacation home or anything like that. No, I tried, though, dude. I was working at Angle. I was working at hard, you know, because he had a big, this was before I built my house in Wyoming.

He had a big, yeah, still do. You know, Ted's still with us. He's in Bozeman, Montana, I believe right now. But, man, I wanted to get on that property. So bad. I kind of figure out a way to wheeze my hand. Now that I'm an executive, it shouldn't be a big challenge.

When WCW came to an end, did you think that you were done with wrestling? No doubt. No doubt. It was, and I don't want to make this sound like I was angry or mad or resentful. Yeah.

I mean, I was a little reserved. I didn't like the way things ended. Ended on a really bad now. No, you'd have to be a moron to go, wow, that ended really well. So, but it's like,

didn't dwell on it. To me, at that point in my life, you know, my wife and I talked about it. It was like, okay, that chapter's over. Didn't quite end the way we wanted. You know, I would have rewritten the last part of it if I could, but it doesn't matter. I can't. So off we go. And it took me about a week to kind of just shake it all off and decide, you know, wrestling, professional wrestling was in my rearview mirror. And I was proud of it. I was grateful for it, but I never thought I would step back in it. And like how close, I mean, everyone talks about how close you were to owning WCW, but how close were you really?

Well, there was a letter of intent that outlined the exact terms of a deal that, you know, had been negotiated between Fusion Media, the group I was with, and Turner Broadcasting, everybody had signed off on it, due diligence had been done, probably close to a million dollars where the legal fees had been expended, We had assurances from all of the top executives at Turner Broadcasting. The deal was going to move forward. Hell, there was a conference call. There was a Wall Street conference call announcing the deal publicly based on the letter of intent.

I took my kids who were so young at the time. I realized that once the deal was closed, that I probably wouldn't see a vacation again for the next five years. So I literally thinking, okay, this deal is going to close in the next month or two, I've got a little time on my hands. I'm going to take my kids on vacation. And I did. Took them to Hawaii. Took them to them and each got to bring a friend.

And we all went to Hawaii thinking, okay, as soon as the plane lands, when we get back, I got about two days and off I go. Yeah. While I was in Hawaii, I got the phone call saying the deal was dead. Wow. Yeah, that was shitty. I'm on the beach. I got my little whatever it was.

You know, they put umbrellas and everything. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you've got to lay around your neck. I'm out on the beach. I'm all greased up like a beach freaking whale, getting a tan, drinking my umbrella drink, thinking that I'm going to, you know, we're going to take over WCW when I get back.

And I look good because I have a tan, you know, the deal, right? Kind of have a tan to be the man. And, uh-uh, man. Man, some big bully came along, kicked sand in my pina colada and that was the end of it wow i mean so to say you were right there you were that close like this was a pretty much it was a signed and done deal it was imminent it was wow it wasn't just a casual discussion or semi-formal negotiation it like i said we announced it publicly yeah to to the major financial news media it was live conference call just like wwee does

every quarter. Same thing. But think of how much this changed the trajectory of your life. You were going from this mindset in Hawaii, the next five years is just going to be 24-7, work, work, work, work, work. And then the rug gets pulled out from underneath you, and then you go, oh, well, now what do I do? Yeah, maybe for a few minutes, but not for long. You know, and that's, there's, I, I've always had a hard,

time focusing on just one thing. You know, I mean, I can put 90% of my focus into one thing, but 10% of it's going to be spread out over a couple other different things. It's been that way my whole life. It's kind of a, I don't want to say it's a burden, but it's a fact of life that I have, I struggle with, you know, is just my challenge has always been, okay, what should get the majority of my attention? Because I think everything's important, right? Yeah. But I, once the news hit and I kind of adjusted mentally and emotionally to it like I said it took me about a week and I was over it then it was like okay well what do I want to do next and it went from damn to what if I like what if a lot better so I lived in a what if for a couple of period of time

and started producing television shows on my own as an independent producer was creating writing, producing, selling shows to networks. I was kind of digging out, making a lot of money doing it, having fun. A year later, the phone rings, and it's Vince McMahon and the WWE. How surprised were you to get that phone call? Truth be told, Chris, I wasn't because I got a heads up from somebody that was, I was close to in WWE that said, hey, you're not supposed to know this, but don't be surprised if you don't get a phone call from Vince McMahon.

I got that phone call the day before he called. So I feigned surprise really well. though. Well, when you got that initial phone call then from your friend, where you're like, really? He's going to call me? No. Because honestly, this is something else that, you know, doesn't get pointed out too often. WWE had called me the year before and tried me to get, tried to get me to come in.

And it didn't, it just didn't work out. It was, it just didn't work out. I'll leave it at that. So this was actually, you know, Vince calling was. the first time. Vince didn't call me the first time. Somebody else did. Jim Ross did, actually. But Vince called me the second time. So it wasn't like, holy crap, I can't believe they thought of this. It was, you know, I was excited. I was intrigued and flattered, actually. But I mean, being on the road with wrestling is extremely time-consuming. So what happened to the

other projects that you were working on during that year? Well, when I was a talented at WWE, Oh, you mean before I went to WWE? No, I mean, WWE calls, and now you've got all this stuff that you've been working on, does that not have to get put on hold? No, not at all, man. Oh, if you can't juggle more than three grenades at a time, you're going to blow it up. I'm used to have an eight or ten in a year at any given moment, you know? I, you know, it's like, I'm a salesman at heart.

Your odds are, the more deals you have, you know, on the table, the more likely it is you're going to sell the number you want. So I've always had lots of grenades in the air. No, because, you know, as a talent, truth be known, I'd leave on Sunday. I lived on the West Coast. So I'd leave on Sunday, fly to wherever Monday night, Raw was, Sunday night, work all day, Monday, fly home Tuesday, get home Tuesday night, work, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. So I still had four or five days a week to do it in while I was, even when I was on the road

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That's BLUBLOX.com slash CVV for 15% off or just use that code CVV. Which TV show that you produce? I mean, obviously everybody knows you for wrestling, but which TV show did you produce that you were most proud of? God, I hate when you ask good, not you, but when anybody ask a good question that deserves a truthful answer, and I know the truthful answers, not what people want to hear, including my friends. But I wasn't really proud of any of them. Wow.

It was transactional. It was a business. It was what I did for a living. I was proud of the process. I was proud of taking, along with my partner at the time, I was proud of taking, absolutely nothing but an idea and turning it into one of the larger, not the largest, but one of the more successful independent television production companies in Hollywood for a period of time. I was very proud of that, but the shows that you would recognize on the air,

they're purely transactional. Did you have a pitch that you thought for sure would have got picked up and didn't? No, because television and I learned this early. early, early on. You know, television is such a fickle thing. I mean, it's exciting. Don't get me wrong. And it's probably one of the things that attract a certain type of person to Hollywood, whether you want to be a performer, an actor, an actress, a director, writer, you know, whatever is things move so fast. Yeah. And there's always something new that somebody wants tomorrow. And it's kind of like you're constantly living on that edge of what's the next hot idea. And because of that, there's no, there's no such thing as a bad idea in Hollywood.

Everything is a pretty decent idea to discuss because you never know what's going to sell. Now, you can, you can, you know, take another approach to it and say, yeah, but if you know, if you look at what the networks are currently buying, and that's true, especially today, television, the industry to me at least, and I'm not really involved in it too much anymore, but over the last couple years that I was, it became very, it was more like working for a bank than it was working in the entertainment industry. In one way. Because all of the executives along the way

were more worried about covering their ass than taking a chance on a great opportunity. So no matter how much, you know, you're pitching something, no, it's different. Now, this is for me. You know, I didn't really have a big track right. You know, I wasn't Steven Spielberg or Michael Botchka or, you know, any number of other legitimate big-time producers.

I was a pimple on a hamster's ass in retrospect, but we were still successful. We sold a lot of shows. But in the process of selling shows, it became, especially later on, not so much in the beginning, but later on it got to the point where you're pitching a group of people in a room and you know not one of them can make a decision. Not one of them can say yes or no. What they do is typically get together and they decide how they all feel about something. and if the majority feels pretty good about it, then they'll take it to the next level.

And that person will take it to the next level. It's just like getting approved for a car loan. It's no longer about the instinct and the emotion and the risk taking that I think is a requisite in entertainment. If you're going to break new barriers, if you're going to step out of the envelope, whatever you want to call it and come up with the next big thing, got to be willing to take some risks. But when you're working in an environment that's simply really, really risk-adverse, it's really hard to do.

And it just gets boring. I think such a big takeaway from everything that you're saying here is, and not just with television, but with wrestling and everything in your life is stuff happens. And if it doesn't go the way that you want it to go, figure it out. Move on. Keep going. Not only move on, but here's, I see, I know sometimes I sound like, like such an advocate advocate for failure. And I don't want to be that. But like, and I love the way that

the context that you just said it. It's like, hey, you try something. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, you move on. Yes. But before you move on, you ask yourself, why didn't that work? Or how could it? What would have, what would it have taken to make that idea? What did I do wrong? How could I have done it differently? And when you break things down and look at a, from that perspective, you come out of that with experience and knowledge that you can apply to the next, hey, what if? Yeah. So every time you try and succeed, great, you learn a little bit about succeeding.

You know what you did right. But the value of the lesson and what you did wrong is just as important as the lesson that you learned about doing it right. So from an experience perspective, the way I looked at shit, I don't really care if I succeed or fail as long as I learn something along the way. Now, I prefer to succeed. You know, I really do. I prefer to drop 10 pounds next month.

But if I don't, I'm going to understand why I didn't. And the following month, I will. That's just how I work. With that said, do you look at storylines in WCW and go, man, if we had only done this differently. It's like a house of cards. If we had only done this differently, this wouldn't have happened, then this wouldn't have happened. Yes and no, you know, as a part of the 83 weeks journey that Conrad takes me on every Monday, I get on myself, oh my God, why, oh, why didn't I raise my hand and go, no, or why didn't somebody smack me the head with something and say, no, Eric,

don't do that. But I just, I don't think about that stuff too often. I'll look at certain storylines. Here's the obvious one. The Stig Hogan finish, right? When everybody wanted Sting to beat Hogan after, you know, hanging in the rafters for 12 months, a storyline that built for over 12 months. And it was a shitty finish to the story. It was. Do I wish I would have done that differently?

Absolutely. Do I beat myself up for it? No. I don't. It's just I learned something. Yeah. I did. Now, there were mitigating circumstances that helped me make that decision and that make that choice. But from a creative point of view, sure, I break things down all the time. I break things down that I like watching on television and say, God, how could that have been just a little bit better?

It's just the way my brain works. Yeah. Is the, you know, the finger poke of death. Is that really like the beginning of the end for WCW? Do you think? Oh, no, that's silly. And it's not silly that you ask a question. but it's a narrative that's been out there now for so long. Yeah. And again, that narrative comes from, you know, the online community fans, the online news site community that services those fans or exploits them as the case. And I don't mean that in a bad way. You know, make money off of them.

It's what we're doing here. It's okay. Not bitching about it. But the narrative that emerged from that kind of. discussion, you know, oh, if they wouldn't have done that, WCW would still be around today. Are you fucking kidding me? I mean, if you're eight or nine, okay, I'll kind of laugh with you and roll on. But like, if you're an adult and you talk about the industry, like you kind of know what

you're talking about and you allow yourself to be a part of that conversation, you're just goofy, childish. It was so many other things. And I say that because there were so many other things in reality. You know, Guy Evans book, you know, The Incredible Rise and Fall of Ted Turner's WCW Nitro or whatever it was, the name of the title. Amazing book that really, really, in a way that has never been done before in the industry, breaks down what happened. And it had nothing to do with creative. Everybody likes to point to creative because it's what's in front of their face for free on TV. And everybody thinks that creative is absolutely end all and be all of everything that's,

right or wrong with a promotion. And it's not. It's just one element. There are many other elements. And Guy Evans book, like I said, breaks down. But no, it had nothing to do with creative, especially the finger-poken do. It just seems that way to 12-year-olds. Outside of 83 weeks, how much is wrestling a part of your life these days? Well, part of my active life is about zero. Maybe every once in a while. Well, you know, when is this show going to air, by the way? Probably in two weeks. In two weeks, you will have seen me on a recent television episode.

And that happens, you know, a couple times a year. And I do it. And it's fun. I get to see people that I enjoy, you know, that I've had relationships with, some of them for over 30 years. Yeah. So that's really fun for me. And I get to keep my mug out there on camera.

And that's good for the podcast, just to be totally transparent. Sure. It's fun for me. It's good for the podcast. And fans react to it in a positive way. So whenever I get those opportunities, I do them. But that's it. Man, I'm not thinking about wrestling too much.

I'm not going to wrestling events. I don't spend a lot of time watching wrestling. Unless there's something I hear about that's interesting to me, that I'll tune in. But I don't block off my Monday and Friday and Wednesday nights for it. And this is what's so interesting when you talk to somebody who's in wrestling, that is the narrative. And when you talk to someone who's a fan of wrestling,

they're going Monday night, 8 o'clock, I know where I'm going to be. Friday night at a clock, Wednesday night, 8 o'clock, I know where I'm going to be. And it's so interesting that when you've been that close to it, it's almost like you need to be able to step away from it. Well, and part of it is I watch it differently than you do or I watch it differently than, you know, an average wrestling fan does. Yeah. I tend, as I said earlier, when I watch my favorite, you know, right now I'm watching a series. I just watched the last episode last night called Banished on Hulu. It's a historical drama piece about, you know, when Britain took all their prisoners

and they wanted to get them out of Britain, and so they put them on a boat and set them down to Australia. That's where Australia came from, as we know it, at least. Not as the Aborigines do it, but as we know it now. And I watch that series, and it's a fantastic series. but as a producer, wannabe storyteller, I look for different ways to tell that story.

And the same thing happens when I watch wrestling. Now, the difference is when I watch wrestling, I'm not just watching story. I'm looking at the quality of the promos. I'm looking for camera shots and I'm looking at the lighting

and I'm noticing the sound levels. I'm like, fuck, you're not really, you're not enjoying this. You're giving it an audience. autopsy or a physical, as the case to me. Sometimes they're autopsies, sometimes they're physicals, depending on what I'm watching. Oh, God, that's funny. That's a clip right there.

Did you know that your son, Garrett, would get into wrestling growing up around it? No, as a matter of fact, it shouldn't have come as a surprise, but it did because he never talked about it. You know, when he was, and I know, Wahoo McDaniel gave my son Garrett his first bump. That's how long Garrett's been around wrestling. Wow.

It was like five or six years old. How old would he? No, he wasn't even that. This would have been 1988. Garrett would have been four years old. And I took him to the office when I worked for Vernani at the AWA. And Ray Stevens and Wahoo McDaniel were the bookers at the time for Vern.

And it was, after work one day and I don't know if I was watching my son or my wife dropped them off at the office. I don't know what it was, but my son was at the office with me at closing time. And we're all sitting around the lobby. And I think there was probably a beer to, you know, being passed out because we had a nice, really good refrigerator just off the lobby. And we're having a couple beers. And Wahoo's playing around my son, Garrett.

And I don't know what Garrett did. Got a hold of Wahoo. And Wahoo picked him up by his ankle. Right. And he's holding him upside down and he slipped and let go. Garrett fell right on his head. Oh, my God. So it's like, you know, Garrett, Wahul McDaniel gave you your first real wrestling bump.

I wasn't really a wrestling bump, but yeah, close enough. It's a good story. It almost broke your neck, you know. But no, he never said anything about it, you know, into his teens. You know, he was around it all the time. And it wasn't until, you know, I was in T&A. And he said, dad, I've always wanted to do this. I said, what do you mean?

You've always wanted to do this. This is the first time hearing about it. He said, I just, I didn't ever want to tell you. But I really, really want to do this. So I said, great. If you want to do it, you got to do it right. You know, send him down, send him out to Rikishi's wrestling school, Knox Pro Wrestling in Southern California.

He and his girl moved to California, live there, trained with Knox Pro. For a while. Then he moved to Tampa to work with Hulk Hogan and Brian Knoxville. and a couple of people that we knew there after he had some basics and learned what he could learn at Knox Pro. And then he, you know, broke in as a referee. I mean, you've said that you didn't enjoy your time in TNA at all. But is perhaps Garrett being there one of the bright spots? Yeah.

And I know I've often said that or I've said things close enough to it that it gets written that way. Yeah. And that's my mistake. Let me be clear here on your show, though. Sure. there's a lot of, I hate to call it resentment, but I can't think of a better word. On my part towards TNA, not the people. Well, yeah, kind of the people.

Just because of the missed opportunity, there was a moment in time while I was there that, in my opinion, the TNA that was TNA at that time could have done what Bellator did, what Scott Coker, who's a friend of mine, I've known him since he was 10, what Scott Coker and Bellator was able to do with Viacom. Viacom was in the mood. They were hungry. They had learned a lesson with the UFC and they no longer wanted to be in the business of building other people's brands. They wanted to own, not all of it, but I wanted to own a part of it. And I was a big advocate for that. And it met with all kinds of ridiculous resistance. That's my resentment. not because it wouldn't matter to me.

I wouldn't have made any more money. It wouldn't have, it wasn't going to put money in my pocket, but it was that golden opportunity and they come around so rarely that you hate to see somebody fuck it up. Yeah. Now, that aside,

I had a lot of fun in TNA. Of course, working when my son Garrett was the highlight of all that. But, you know, Hulk is my best friend, working with Hulk, you know, working with Rick Flair again, working with Steve Boren, Sting again. I got to work with McFully and Tina.

I got to work with Kurt Angle. I got to work with a lot of really good people. AJ Styles I got to work with. I mean, come on. Yeah. And made a lot of friends there. Well, maybe not a lot. Maybe just a handful.

But hey, they're friends. Who cares? You don't call them. You just appreciate them. But when you list off all those people, it just, it's so crazy to me that it could never, the TNA could never compete with WWE. Crazy. And that's part of my.

about TNA. It's not even resentment. It's just, is they had all the elements. What they didn't have is vision and commitment from management, from their funding partner.

What do you think about people that say that AEW is making some of those same mistakes that TNA did, bringing in people that had just left WWE or bringing in legends who haven't wrestled in a while? That's so stupid.

I mean, it's so ignorant. And when I say, you know, I don't mean that as a derisive term. I mean it, the literal sense of the word, the definition of the word. People that say those kind of things have no real firsthand knowledge or experience. They have theoretical knowledge based on their fandom and their tangential connection to the industry because they watch about it and talk

about it in some cases right about it. They don't really know what they're talking about. Yeah. I think what AEW is doing is, it's by no means groundbreaking. They're not inventing an idea here, but they're smart. Bringing in former WWE talent with international, not just domestic U.S., but international brand equity and face recognition and a fan base. Yeah. What is wrong with that?

That's silly. Now, if you have to rely solely on that, then I can see the argument. If AEW is bringing in legends, Sting, for example, the most recent one, Tully Blanchard, Arne Anderson, these are people that all still have an important presence on camera. Are they old? Hell yeah. They're as old as I am. A couple of them, one of them at least older.

but they have value. The wrestling audience is not one, you know, demo. It's not 18 to 34 year old men. It's not 18 to 49 year old men. It's much broader than that. Yeah. It's also family viewing, you know. And I think if people today, if they knew that or understood the challenge of building a television product in prime time,

I'm in a large cable outlet like TNT or USA or, well, we'll just talk about cable. You have to appeal to a wide variety of people. You can't just focus on one demo. You can't just bring in a bunch of young, fresh talent. That's what everybody says, oh, young, fresh talent. Well, these are young, fresh talent that nobody knows or cares about. That's the truth. When you're breaking in, when you're a year, two years, four years, five years in the business

on the independent scene and nobody really knows who you are on a national television scale, you're green. You have to build that audience and that relationship with that audience. And what AEW is doing by bringing in the legends and former WWE talent is bringing in equity, in the case of former WWE talent, and scratching the itch of that nostalgia component that makes wrestling works so well. Right. But they're also bringing in a lot of young, fresh, exciting talent, and they're doing it simultaneously. They're not bringing in these AEW, or excuse me, WWE talents and legends, if you will, at the expense of young talent. They're doing it in

addition to young talent. Right. And I think it's exactly the way it should be done. Are you surprised that Goldberg and Sting are still wrestling now in 2021? Well, Stee, I was surprised because like everybody else, I was under the impression that the injury that he sustained, I think while he was in WWE, would never allow him to step back into the ring again. So from that perspective, yes. But if that would have never occurred or if I had never known about that, somebody would have said, hey, you know, do you think Sting will ever wrestle again when he's 61? I would have bet on that. Sting has passion. You know, he has fire. He loves it. When it's good, when it's fun. When he can click and the things around him are clicking at the same time, Sting is just fun to watch because he has almost a childlike energy and enthusiasm. Still.

So that part doesn't surprise me. The part that he overcame the injury, you know, frankly did. Yeah. And I mean, Goldberg's still in as good as shape as he's ever been in. That Goldberg's doing enough for the money. Come on. this is not love for the business or well i'm going to get out there and perform in my opinion sorry bill you know you and i are close friends but we're friends and if what i'm saying

offends you bill i apologize because i don't mean it to but come on dude do you think he's doing it for the fun or do you think he's doing it for the money yeah i feel like him and brock lesnar really like money they're smart that's not a bad thing it's why i'm saying it's i'm not putting it down. If I had the ability at Bill's age and look the way Bill did and somebody said, hey, I'll stroke you a seven-figure check to come in and work for five minutes. Come on. Be honest with ourselves and not bust anybody's balls over it because every one of us would do it. We dream about that opportunity. You know, as the guy who is behind the Monday Night Wars, everyone's referring to what's going on right now as the Wednesday Night Wars.

Do you really think this is a war between dynamite and NXT? I'm checking myself at the door. No, it's not. I mean, it is in a sense, I mean, the obvious sense, they're head-to-head. Sure. But let's be real. You know, AEW, what you see on Wednesday night is the cream of the AEW crop. What you see on NXT is not the cream of the AEW crop.

cream of the WWE crop. It's the developmental arm of WWE. It's not its top stars. You'll see the top stars on AEW on Wednesday. You will not see the top stars on NXT on Wednesday. And until that changes, I don't know, it's kind of a spinball fight more than a war. It's interesting when when NXT moved to Wednesday, I felt like it was kind of win-win for WWE, because if their development, talent beat AEW, they went, yeah, I mean, of course we beat him. And if AEW beat their developmental talent, they went, well, yeah, but it's just our developmental talent. I, you know, it's a, I think a natural conclusion to come to, I guess. I happened to be there during that period of time when the decision was being made, should we go on Wednesday or should we go on another night?

and I can tell you that wasn't the conversations that I heard. You're talking at WWA. Right. What were the conversations that were going on? Can't do that, brother. That would be inappropriate. That's interesting. This will be a conversation we'll have 20 years from now about this.

20 years from now when we're not on camera and we're not putting it out to the universe. By the way, I'm curious, do you still have your brewery? No, no, no. That was an expensive hobby. I love a good craft beer, so I was curious. I do too, but I'd rather spend six bucks and buy a couple than the amount of money that I invested trying to do my own. I feel like I know the answer to this, but I'm wondering, whose idea was HLA? I don't know who's, it wasn't mine. Yeah.

It came out of the creative side of WWE, but I couldn't tell you. It were very good. WWE was very good about never, never attaching a storyline or an angle or an idea to any one individual. They just never did that. You always assumed it was Vince's idea because Vince had to sign off on it. Yeah. But I would say very rarely were the, things that we were doing, Vince's original idea. Vince may, obviously, Vince would have. In fact,

I would bet my life on it shaped all of those ideas and had input into all of them and approval, obviously. Yeah. But the ideation of it, you know, the very first idea, I don't know. I can't imagine that happening in current wrestling. Oh, God, if you think, you go back and watch, do what I do, you know, because I'm going to go back and watch all this stuff before I talk about it, right? Yeah. Yeah. You go back even into the mid-dust. 90s, you know, some of the things that we were doing and get away with, even in late 90s, I think probably even in the early 2000s, you would get, you'd be nothing but a singed corpse of your former corporate self should you try to get away with some of the stuff that was

happening on a weekly basis of television back then. What a description. Oh, what do you say? I don't even remember what I said. What did I say? The singed corpse of it. Of your former corporate self. Yeah.

Wow. Pretty good. Man, you put that on a t-shirt. I'm going to write that down. Hold on. I'm just kidding. If you had to look back at everything over your career, television, wrestling everything, what do you think are some takeaways that are things that you use in your everyday life now?

I've learned to appreciate the moment, probably at this stage of my life. more than I ever would have even given time to think about when I was in my 30s and my 40s. Well, I was really running hard, even in my 50s, when I was just like, gobble, gobble, and everything. I wanted to get this. I want to do this. I want to do that. I want to do this. And I was working. I was everything. I was like on a treadmill. I put myself on a mental treadmill every day. And oftentimes as a result of that, you just blow by really important things. things you wish you would have appreciated more if you would have the opportunity to do it again. So now I think the takeaways from, you know, my entire career has been, you know,

I spend more time trying to know what I don't know, learn, you know, fill in the holes. If I've got an idea or if I have a story or if I have a project, whatever it is I'm excited about, there's always holes in it. There's always a flaw somewhere along the line. And if I don't know the answer to those things, I look for people to do so it improves my odds. I take a much more strategic approach to things now than I ever used to. I was more of a, damn, I love that idea. Let's do it.

I don't care. There's a reason why we shouldn't do it. Just run it over. Kill it. Kick it aside. Move on. Now I spend a little more time breaking things down and thinking about them. But that's really it.

when you say you want to be learning, are you reading? Like, do you read frequently? I read a lot, you know, but I read a lot of, gosh, I don't read for entertainment. I read for research. Sure. I love history. Current events are very always have been since I was a teenager. Current events has always been, therefore politics has always been something that's just kind of very aware of and two did too.

So, you know, my reading varies. It's kind of like my music playlist. It depends on the mood I'm in. I think of anything, we've learned from this interview that you love history more than anything else. I do, I don't know if I love it more than anything else, but I do love history. I'm fascinated by it. I love when I watch things on television, that's probably one of the other things, one of the other reasons why.

And again, if you look at my wife and I, we do have time to watch TV for an hour or two in the evening, maybe not even three usually, but it's all, like if we watch a drama, it's based, it's a period piece. There's history there. There's something to learn. Otherwise, I'm watching Discovery and Nat Geo and BBC and I watch NHK, Japanese television. That's what I watch. This all comes back around at the start of the conversation. Wyoming's the perfect place for you to live.

It is. I never have to leave, but I can travel all over the world in my robe. And you don't have to pay state income tax. It's a great place to live. Doesn't Kanye West live there? He does. He lives right down the road for me. Seriously? Yeah. Wow. Now, when I say right down the road, I'm talking about right down the Wyoming road. That's not the same thing as a New Jersey road. It's four houses away, but it's, you know, 114 miles. No, I would say he's about 20 minutes for me directly. directly east of me. So you run into him at the grocery store all the time.

I haven't, but people do. I haven't yet. I'm playing on a charity softball game with him in June here in Cody. But, no, I have a lot of friends that bump into him, you know, before he and Kim filed for divorce or she filed for divorce. She was in town often with the kids and they'd go into town and go shopping and have lunch in a local restaurant just like everybody else. They fit right in to the community, surprisingly.

My friend Tyler Perry also has a place in Wyoming and Jackson Hole. Yeah, but Jackson Hole is like a suburb of road of Beverly Hills. That doesn't count. That doesn't count. It really doesn't. That's just like get a vacation home with a nice view. That's what that is. So here's the deal on Jackson Hole.

It's where the billionaires run the millionaires. run the millionaires out of town. Nobody there is from Jackson Hole. They're all from California. That's fine. Or New York. Yeah. Some from Dallas.

None of them are from Jackson Hole. And then what I say, it's like, it's like a suburb of Beverly Hills. I shits you not. It's like going into a giant souvenir shop. Everything looks like what somebody in California. imagines Wyoming should look like. It's so funny. No, I'm not a big Santa Jackson hole.

It's too bad. You're like, I live in real Wyoming. Well, I do live in real Wyoming. Yeah. No, I will tell you. You know, Kanye Westlips down the road. Bill Gates has got a place you can see from my porch. Yeah.

I mean, there's some people with some property around here and some money. But for the most part, these are local, you know, local people that have been second third generation ranching families and people that have grown up in this community the vast majority of them how many animals do you have at your place just one i was i was debating whether i should count myself but just one i didn't know maybe you had a stable full of horses and cows no i did up until recently i did um i had horses i had mules we've had goats goats are awesome We had goats. We had Gilligan was the baby goat that our goats gave birth to. Mary Ann and the professor. So we had three goats. And Gilligan was the baby. And it was

because we brought the goat. The goat was born like right before Christmas. And my daughter, our son of daughter came here for Christmas that year. And we literally had the baby goat sitting in my daughter's lap Christmas morning. It was the cutest thing you've ever seen. Yeah, but goats are great. They just ship 24 hours a day. They never stop shitting. We've learned so much during this interview. I live to enlighten. If you follow me on Twitter, you know, I live to enlighten and sometimes entertain. You are a great follow on Twitter. Eric, I've really appreciated this. This has been so entertaining and so informative. Good, man. I'm glad we did it. And anytime, man, you know how to reach me.

Oh, thank you so much. And, you know, I'm a big gratitude person. my whole life is driven by like being grateful in each moment. So I ask my guess at the, hey, there it is. There it is, brother. So I end every interview asking, what are three things, Eric, that you're grateful for right now? My family, my health, and my friends. I love it. Grateful for you.

Thank you so much, Eric. Thank you, brother. Be well. Well, there we go. I have a feeling that this is just part. Part one of many interviews that we're going to do. I'd love to have Eric back on the show absolutely any time. I guess, you know, this is technically part two,

because we did a 15-minute interview back in the summer of 2018. But, you know, this is the first real in-depth interview. And a huge thank you to Eric for giving us an hour of his time. That was a great conversation. You could, of course, listen to Eric and Conrad Thompson on 83 weeks. It's every Monday on ad-free shows. And I think one of the biggest things that I took away from this is this is the common thread that you seem to see and hear with successful people. They live in the moment.

They look ahead and they live in the moment. I mean, what happened in the past happened. I mean, you can learn some lessons from it, but you can't change what happened. So there's no point on dwelling about what happened. You know, that whole idea of like, if you could go back and change one thing, would you? And the answer, like, is always no, because I wouldn't be the person that I am today if I didn't do the things that I did then. As Rita May Brown said, and I'll leave you with this, one of the keys to happiness is a bad memory.

Love that. Be great. Be grateful, my friends. We will see you on the next one for some more insight. The Hammer Alley podcast, an 80s flashback mockumentary. there were a thousand bands trying to make it in the world of rock. But there was one band that had it all. Hammer Alley.

Whatever happened to Hammer Alley? How did they go from top of the rock? I'm looking for a music video. They're a band from 1987. Hammer Alley. Ever heard of then? To Rock Bottom. Dude, I was born in 1987.

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